[LUTE] Re: This list is ending soon!

[Garry Bryan]

Thanks for all the decades, Wayne!

I'll see the rest of you reprobates around the internet ( Ning, 
Facebook, etc.).


Garry

On 9/30/2020 6:11 AM, Wayne Cripps wrote:

Hi Lute People -

   The Dartmouth lute list is ending in less than three hours.  I certainly 
have learned a lot from all of you and I thank you all for taking part in it.

   Wayne




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: This list is ending soon!

[Edward Martin]

Wayne, many thanks and we hope you like retirement!

Ed Martin

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 30, 2020, at 5:14 AM, Wayne Cripps  wrote:
> 
> Hi Lute People -
> 
>  The Dartmouth lute list is ending in less than three hours.  I certainly 
> have learned a lot from all of you and I thank you all for taking part in it.
> 
>  Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: This list is ending soon!

[RC P]

Many thanks, see you on the other side!

Bob Purrenhage



On 9/30/2020 6:11 AM, Wayne Cripps wrote:

Hi Lute People -

   The Dartmouth lute list is ending in less than three hours.  I certainly 
have learned a lot from all of you and I thank you all for taking part in it.

   Wayne




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: This list is ending soon!

[Jeff Noonan]

Thanks for your time, energy, attention to detail & patience over the years, 
Wayne. 

I hope you’re retiring to a pleasant & active new life. 

All the best!

jeff

> On Sep 30, 2020, at 5:18 AM, Wayne Cripps  wrote:
> 
> Hi Lute People -
> 
>  The Dartmouth lute list is ending in less than three hours.  I certainly 
> have learned a lot from all of you and I thank you all for taking part in it.
> 
>  Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: This list is ending soon!

[Bruno Cognyl-Fournier]

   Thank you Wayne for everything, and happy retirement.!!
   Bruno
   Montreal

   Le  mer. 30 sept. 2020 Ã   08:15, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen
   <[1]jlaju...@gmail.com> a écrit  :

Thank you so much Wayne!
This list has been an invaluable source of information.
Jussi-Pekka
ke 30. syysk. 2020 klo 13.13 Wayne Cripps
 ([1][2]w...@cs.dartmouth.edu)
kirjoitti:
  Hi Lute People -
The Dartmouth lute list is ending in less than three hours.
  I
  certainly have learned a lot from all of you and I thank you
 all for
  taking part in it.
Wayne
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [2][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
 References
1. mailto:[4]w...@cs.dartmouth.edu
2. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:jlaju...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:w...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   4. mailto:w...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: This list is ending soon!

[Jussi-Pekka Lajunen]

   Thank you so much Wayne!
   This list has been an invaluable source of information.
   Jussi-Pekka

   ke 30. syysk. 2020 klo 13.13 Wayne Cripps ([1]w...@cs.dartmouth.edu)
   kirjoitti:

 Hi Lute People -
   The Dartmouth lute list is ending in less than three hours.   I
 certainly have learned a lot from all of you and I thank you all for
 taking part in it.
   Wayne
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:w...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: This list is ending soon!

[Arto Wikla]

Big thanks Wayne

Your list was great!!

Arto

On 30.9.2020 13.11, Wayne Cripps wrote:
> Hi Lute People -
>
>   The Dartmouth lute list is ending in less than three hours.  I certainly 
> have learned a lot from all of you and I thank you all for taking part in it.
>
>   Wayne
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: This list is ending soon!

[Jim Dunn]

   Thank you so much Wayne â a reliable source of help, knowledge and
   entertainment. Three cheers for Wayne!

   On 30 Sep 2020, 12:14 +0200, Wayne Cripps ,
   wrote:

 Hi Lute People -
 The Dartmouth lute list is ending in less than three hours. I
 certainly have learned a lot from all of you and I thank you all for
 taking part in it.
 Wayne
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

[LUTE] Re: This list is ending soon!

[Lex van Sante]

   Hey Wayne,

   Thanks for creating and maintaining this list for such a long time.

   I am sure it will be sorely missed by all with an interest in the lute
   and allied instruments.

   Thanks again and stay healthy!

   Lex.

   Op 30 sep. 2020, om 12:11 heeft Wayne Cripps <[1]w...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   het volgende geschreven:

   Hi Lute People -
The Dartmouth lute list is ending in less than three hours.  I
   certainly have learned a lot from all of you and I thank you all for
   taking part in it.
Wayne
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:w...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: This list is ending soon!

[Christopher Wilke]

   Thanks so much Wayne! You've provided an invaluable service to the
   international lute community. There's no doubt the lute would be in far
   worse shape without the exchange of knowledge you facilitated. We all
   owe you a deep debt of gratitude.

   Best,

   Chris

   On Wednesday, September 30, 2020, 6:17 AM, Wayne Cripps
wrote:

   Hi Lute People -

 The Dartmouth lute list is ending in less than three hours.  I
   certainly have learned a lot from all of you and I thank you all for
   taking part in it.

 Wayne

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: LUTE Duets

[Christopher Stetson]

   Good morning, Alain.
   Thank you for this.   I hope it was fun to put together!
   Have a good afternoon,
   Chris.

   On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 1:06 AM Alain Veylit
   <[1]al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote:

 People who like lute duets might   interested in a project I put
 together, see
 [2]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/preview/26
 I did not quite make it to 100 but there are still some pieces to be
 added after this list goes silent.
 Good night all,
 Alain
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
   2. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/preview/26
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: LUTE Duets

[Alain Veylit]

People who like lute duets might  interested in a project I put 
together, see http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/preview/26


I did not quite make it to 100 but there are still some pieces to be 
added after this list goes silent.


Good night all,

Alain



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: This September--Paul O'Dette in concert

[John Mardinly]

Thanks Nancy-This was wonderful!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Nancy Carlin  wrote:
> 
> --0511CBC1E59526415F9EA14C
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> 
> See the note below about an online Paul O'Dette concert.
> Nancy
> 
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject:This September--Paul O'Dette in concert
> Date:Mon, 31 Aug 2020 09:30:46 -0400
> From:Lydia Becker 
> To:lsaq.edi...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Nancy,
> 
> I hope this email finds you well! My name is Lydia and I am the
> administrative manager for NYS Baroque and Pegasus Early Music. I wanted
> to alert you to our upcoming season opening concert, featuring Paul
> O'Dette! I've copied and pasted more information:
> 
> September 25 at 7:30pm and September 27 at 4:00pm
> Dowland’s Grand Tour: /Paul O’Dette, lute/
> Our local world-renowned lutenist performs music of English lutenist
> John Dowland, as well as the music he encountered on his travels around
> Europe in the early 17th century.
> This event is hosted by Pegasus Early Music and NYS Baroque. Please
> check our websites (pegasusearlymusic.org
>   > or
> nysbaroque.com
>   >)
> closer to the concert date to find out how to access.
> All events will be online and free! Please note that we’ll be paying our
> artists their professional performance fees, and donations will be
> gratefully accepted.
> 
> If you could forward this to anyone who you think might be interested,
> that would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> All my best,
> 
> Lydia
> *Lydia Becker* | /Administrative Manager/
> *
> *
> *Pegasus Early Music*
> 211 Cobbs Hill Drive
> Rochester, NY 14610
> 585-703-3990 
> www.PegasusEarlyMusic.org 
>   >
> /Now in our 15th season!
> /
> *
> *
> *NYS Baroque*
> 333 The Parkway
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> 607-301-0604 
> www.nysbaroque.com 
>   >
> /Celebrating our 31st season!/
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Nancy Carlin
> Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__LuteSocietyofAmerica.org&d=DwIFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m=fJaMzDUxV76gFV5GfnmIVyoGt4xwfkaxwSh1sDLHtEA&s=KleeThdHjNJruTWaPpr7cnyZuAux3Va1NyVgS39wGMQ&e=
>  
> 
> PO Box 6499
> Concord, CA 94524
> USA
> 925 / 686-5800
> 
> www.groundsanddivisions.info
> www.nancycarlinassociates.com
> 
> 
> --0511CBC1E59526415F9EA14C
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> 
> 
>  
> 
>
>  
>  
>See the note below about an online Paul O'Dette concert.
>Nancy
>
>  
>   Forwarded Message 
>  cellpadding="0" border="0">
>
>  
>Subject:
>
>This September--Paul O'Dette in concert
>  
>  
>Date: 
>Mon, 31 Aug 2020 09:30:46 -0400
>  
>  
>From: 
>Lydia Becker  href="mailto:ly...@pegasusearlymusic.org";>
>  
>  
>To: 
> href="mailto:lsaq.edi...@gmail.com";>lsaq.edi...@gmail.com
>  
>
>  
>  
>  
>  Hello Nancy,
>
>
>I hope this email finds you well! My name is Lydia and I am
>  t

[LUTE] Re: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute

[Ron Andrico]

   "By the way, I really like the film. Films like this one will probably
   soon be forbidden by PC idiots..."
   I know what you mean.  I prefer Macs as well.
   RA
 __

   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of Rainer
   
   Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 12:25 PM
   To: heiman.dan...@juno.com 
   Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu ;
   lutel...@groundsanddivisions.info 
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute

   By the way, I really like the film. Films like this one will probably
   soon be forbidden by PC idiots...
   Rainer
   Am 27.09.2020 um 13:50 schrieb heiman.dan...@juno.com:
   > Rainer, Nigel North did a set of intabulations of Henry Purcell
   pieces at the beginning of his concert on 11-course d-minor
   lute.https://bit.ly/NorthConcert Daniel
   >
   > -- Original Message --
   > From: Rainer 
   > To: Lute net , lutelist
   
   > Subject: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute
   > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:34:51 +0200
   >
   > Dear lute netters,
   >
   > I wonder if anybody has intabulated this for two Renaissance lutes
   (or one).
   >
   > [1]https://youtu.be/UfwO_RRgRXE
   >
   > Rainer
   >
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://youtu.be/UfwO_RRgRXE
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute

[Rainer]

Erm,

do you happen to play chess or just a proud Norwegian :)

I have become interested in chess lately after 42 years of abstinence.

Rainer

Am 27.09.2020 um 19:30 schrieb magnus andersson:

Also noteworthy are the arrangements of the (Daniel) Purcell pieces in the 
Poznan 7033 ms.

Best,

Magnus


Skickat från Yahoo Mail för iPhone 

Den söndag, september 27, 2020, 2:26 em, skrev Rainer 
:

Very nice. The Rondeau is also from Abdelazer.

Which reminds me of the film "Pride and Prhudice".
Of course, nobody would have played music by Purcell as dance music in 1813 
(or 1797).

Anyway many people praised the film music by Marianelli - pseudo romantic 
piano music which did not yet exists in 18213 (or 1797)
The only really great music in the film is by Purcell. HAve I missed 
something?

By the way, I really like the film. Films like this one will probably soon 
be forbidden by PC idiots...

Rainer

Am 27.09.2020 um 13:50 schrieb heiman.dan...@juno.com 
:
 > Rainer, Nigel North did a set of intabulations of Henry Purcell pieces 
at the beginning of his concert on 11-course d-minor 
lute.https://bit.ly/NorthConcert Daniel
 >
 > -- Original Message --
 > From: Rainer mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>>
 > To: Lute net mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>>, lutelist 
mailto:lutel...@groundsanddivisions.info>>
 > Subject: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute
 > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:34:51 +0200
 >
 > Dear lute netters,
 >
 > I wonder if anybody has intabulated this for two Renaissance lutes (or 
one).
 >
 > https://youtu.be/UfwO_RRgRXE 
 >
 > Rainer
 >



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 

[LUTE] Re: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute

[magnus andersson]

   Also noteworthy are the arrangements of the (Daniel) Purcell pieces in
   the Poznan 7033 ms.

   Best,

   Magnus
   [1]Skickat från Yahoo Mail för iPhone

   Den söndag, september 27, 2020, 2:26 em, skrev Rainer
   :

   Very nice. The Rondeau is also from Abdelazer.

   Which reminds me of the film "Pride and Prhudice".

   Of course, nobody would have played music by Purcell as dance music in
   1813 (or 1797).

   Anyway many people praised the film music by Marianelli - pseudo
   romantic piano music which did not yet exists in 18213 (or 1797)

   The only really great music in the film is by Purcell. HAve I missed
   something?

   By the way, I really like the film. Films like this one will probably
   soon be forbidden by PC idiots...

   Rainer

   Am 27.09.2020 um 13:50 schrieb [2]heiman.dan...@juno.com:

   > Rainer, Nigel North did a set of intabulations of Henry Purcell
   pieces at the beginning of his concert on 11-course d-minor
   lute.https://bit.ly/NorthConcert Daniel

   >

   > -- Original Message --

   > From: Rainer <[3]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>

   > To: Lute net <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>, lutelist
   <[5]lutel...@groundsanddivisions.info>

   > Subject: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute

   > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:34:51 +0200

   >

   > Dear lute netters,

   >

   > I wonder if anybody has intabulated this for two Renaissance lutes
   (or one).

   >

   > [6]https://youtu.be/UfwO_RRgRXE

   >

   > Rainer

   >

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
   2. mailto:heiman.dan...@juno.com
   3. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
   4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. mailto:lutel...@groundsanddivisions.info
   6. https://youtu.be/UfwO_RRgRXE
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Capirola translation

[Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.]

So maybe like this?

--Sarge

On 9/26/2020 14:53, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:
> I was responding to this: "Vidal obviously forgot to write the
> beginning of the pavan, and adds the bars at the end of the piece."
>
> Like I said, it makes more sense to me, musically, to play that
> section only before the preceding bars are repeated, but I admit that
> the wording of the Vidal's instructions seem to support the assumption
> quoted above.
>
> Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 27.9.2020 klo 0.07:
>> Did you mean like this?
>> --Sarge
>>
>> On 9/25/2020 09:13, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:
>>>     Thank you! Interestingly that "beginning" does make more sense
>>> to me
>>>     when played only when the piece is repeated. It makes me wonder if
>>>     Vidal really meant that this last strain is played as a
>>> beginning of
>>>     the piece on both times or only on the second time.
>>>
>>>     G. C. kirjoitti 25.9.2020 klo 12.52:
>>>
>>>     4. End of nr. 29 Padoana ala francesa: torna da capo ex q?;
>>> Questo so
>>>     il principio d dita padoana [16 bars] va seguitando
>>>        poi la dita padoan in principio
>>>        "Go to the beginning from here. This is the beginning of the
>>> said
>>>     pavan [16 bars] then follows the said pavan from the
>>>        beginning"
>>>     [As to 4. Vidal obviously forgot to write the beginning of the
>>> pavan,
>>>     and adds the bars at the end of the piece. A closer look at the
>>> end of
>>>     the piece in the facsimile shows this clearly, with a crossing
>>> out of
>>>     the three first chords of the piece, and then the instructions
>>> quoted
>>>     above]
>>>
>>>     Virus-free. [1]www.avast.com
>>>
>>>     On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 9:50 PM Jussi-Pekka Lajunen
>>>     <[2]jlaju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>       Can anyone give me a translation of the texts on folio 48r of the
>>>       Capirola MS (the third page of Padoana alla Francese No. 2) or
>>>       explain
>>>       what they mean?
>>>       -- Jussi-Pekka Lajunen
>>>       To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>
>>>     --
>>>
>>> References
>>>
>>>     Visible links:
>>>     1.
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
>>>     2. mailto:jlaju...@gmail.com
>>>     3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>
>>>     Hidden links:
>>>     5.
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
>>>
>>
>
>

--
Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. (sa...@gerbode.net)
11132 Dell Ave
Forestville, CA 95436-9491
Home phone:  707-820-1759
Website:  http://www.gerbode.net
"The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."


--

[LUTE] Re: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute

[Rainer]

Very nice. The Rondeau is also from Abdelazer.

Which reminds me of the film "Pride and Prhudice".
Of course, nobody would have played music by Purcell as dance music in 1813 (or 
1797).

Anyway many people praised the film music by Marianelli - pseudo romantic piano 
music which did not yet exists in 18213 (or 1797)
The only really great music in the film is by Purcell. HAve I missed something?

By the way, I really like the film. Films like this one will probably soon be 
forbidden by PC idiots...

Rainer

Am 27.09.2020 um 13:50 schrieb heiman.dan...@juno.com:

Rainer, Nigel North did a set of intabulations of Henry Purcell pieces at the 
beginning of his concert on 11-course d-minor lute.https://bit.ly/NorthConcert 
Daniel

-- Original Message --
From: Rainer 
To: Lute net , lutelist 

Subject: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:34:51 +0200

Dear lute netters,

I wonder if anybody has intabulated this for two Renaissance lutes (or one).

https://youtu.be/UfwO_RRgRXE

Rainer





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute

[heiman.dan...@juno.com]

Rainer, Nigel North did a set of intabulations of Henry Purcell pieces at the 
beginning of his concert on 11-course d-minor lute.https://bit.ly/NorthConcert 
Daniel 

-- Original Message --
From: Rainer 
To: Lute net , lutelist 

Subject: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:34:51 +0200

Dear lute netters,

I wonder if anybody has intabulated this for two Renaissance lutes (or one).

https://youtu.be/UfwO_RRgRXE

Rainer
-- 
Lutelist mailing list
lutel...@groundsanddivisions.info
https://pairlist10.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lutelist

--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute

[Arto Wikla]

And if you play continuo, it is not too complicated to play this piece
directly from the score.

Arto

On 27.9.2020 12.52, Mathias Rösel wrote:
>There's an edition of pieces by Purcell from Tree Edition for one
>archlute.
>Mathias
>  __
>
>Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
>--- Original-Nachricht ---
>Von: Rainer
>Betreff: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute
>Datum: 27. September 2020, 9:34
>An: Lute net, lutelist
>
>Dear lute netters,
>I wonder if anybody has intabulated this for two Renaissance lutes (or
>one).
>[2]https://youtu.be/UfwO_RRgRXE
>Rainer
>--
>Lutelist mailing list
>[3]lutel...@groundsanddivisions.info
>[4]https://pairlist10.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lutelist
>
>--
>
> References
>
>1. 
> https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer
>2. https://youtu.be/UfwO_RRgRXE
>3. mailto:lutel...@groundsanddivisions.info
>4. https://pairlist10.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lutelist
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute

[Mathias Rösel]

   There's an edition of pieces by Purcell from Tree Edition for one
   archlute.
   Mathias
 __

   Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
   --- Original-Nachricht ---
   Von: Rainer
   Betreff: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute
   Datum: 27. September 2020, 9:34
   An: Lute net, lutelist

   Dear lute netters,
   I wonder if anybody has intabulated this for two Renaissance lutes (or
   one).
   [2]https://youtu.be/UfwO_RRgRXE
   Rainer
   --
   Lutelist mailing list
   [3]lutel...@groundsanddivisions.info
   [4]https://pairlist10.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lutelist

   --

References

   1. 
https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer
   2. https://youtu.be/UfwO_RRgRXE
   3. mailto:lutel...@groundsanddivisions.info
   4. https://pairlist10.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lutelist


To get on or off this list see list information at
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[LUTE] Re: Peter Croton's email address

[Guilherme Barroso]

   Here it goes:
   petercro...@gmail.com

   Guilherme Barroso
   Lute and Basso Continuo Professor at [1]Escola Superior de Música de
   Lisboa ESML
   [2]www.guilherme-barroso.com | [3]@the_lute_channel
   Tel: +41 767488925

   Em 27/09/2020, 08:33 +0200, Rainer 
   escreveu:

 Dear lute netters,
 does anybody know Peter Croton's email address?
 Rainer
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://www.esml.ipl.pt/
   2. https://www.guilherme-barroso.com/
   3. https://www.youtube.com/user/Guialaude

[LUTE] Re: Capirola translation

[Jussi-Pekka Lajunen]

I was responding to this: "Vidal obviously forgot to write the beginning 
of the pavan, and adds the bars at the end of the piece."


Like I said, it makes more sense to me, musically, to play that section 
only before the preceding bars are repeated, but I admit that the 
wording of the Vidal's instructions seem to support the assumption 
quoted above.


Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 27.9.2020 klo 0.07:

Did you mean like this?
--Sarge

On 9/25/2020 09:13, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:

    Thank you! Interestingly that "beginning" does make more sense to me
    when played only when the piece is repeated. It makes me wonder if
    Vidal really meant that this last strain is played as a beginning of
    the piece on both times or only on the second time.

    G. C. kirjoitti 25.9.2020 klo 12.52:

    4. End of nr. 29 Padoana ala francesa: torna da capo ex q?; 
Questo so

    il principio d dita padoana [16 bars] va seguitando
   poi la dita padoan in principio
   "Go to the beginning from here. This is the beginning of the said
    pavan [16 bars] then follows the said pavan from the
   beginning"
    [As to 4. Vidal obviously forgot to write the beginning of the 
pavan,
    and adds the bars at the end of the piece. A closer look at the 
end of
    the piece in the facsimile shows this clearly, with a crossing 
out of
    the three first chords of the piece, and then the instructions 
quoted

    above]

    Virus-free. [1]www.avast.com

    On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 9:50 PM Jussi-Pekka Lajunen
    <[2]jlaju...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Can anyone give me a translation of the texts on folio 48r of the
  Capirola MS (the third page of Padoana alla Francese No. 2) or
  explain
  what they mean?
  -- Jussi-Pekka Lajunen
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

    --

References

    Visible links:
    1. 
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link

    2. mailto:jlaju...@gmail.com
    3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

    Hidden links:
    5. 
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon

[LUTE] Re: Capirola translation

[Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.]

Did you mean like this?
--Sarge

On 9/25/2020 09:13, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:
> Thank you! Interestingly that "beginning" does make more sense to me
> when played only when the piece is repeated. It makes me wonder if
> Vidal really meant that this last strain is played as a beginning of
> the piece on both times or only on the second time.
>
> G. C. kirjoitti 25.9.2020 klo 12.52:
>
> 4. End of nr. 29 Padoana ala francesa: torna da capo ex q?; Questo so
> il principio d dita padoana [16 bars] va seguitando
>poi la dita padoan in principio
>"Go to the beginning from here. This is the beginning of the said
> pavan [16 bars] then follows the said pavan from the
>beginning"
> [As to 4. Vidal obviously forgot to write the beginning of the pavan,
> and adds the bars at the end of the piece. A closer look at the end of
> the piece in the facsimile shows this clearly, with a crossing out of
> the three first chords of the piece, and then the instructions quoted
> above]
>
> Virus-free. [1]www.avast.com
>
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 9:50 PM Jussi-Pekka Lajunen
> <[2]jlaju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   Can anyone give me a translation of the texts on folio 48r of the
>   Capirola MS (the third page of Padoana alla Francese No. 2) or
>   explain
>   what they mean?
>   -- Jussi-Pekka Lajunen
>   To get on or off this list see list information at
>   [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> Visible links:
> 1. 
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
> 2. mailto:jlaju...@gmail.com
> 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> Hidden links:
> 5. 
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
>

--
Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. (sa...@gerbode.net)
11132 Dell Ave
Forestville, CA 95436-9491
Home phone:  707-820-1759
Website:  http://www.gerbode.net
"The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."


--

[LUTE] Re: Switch to the new list?

[s.wa...@ntlworld.com]

   Thanks Wayne
   I learned a lot from this list over many years
   Stuart
   Sent from my Huawei phone

    Original message 
   From: Wayne 
   Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020, 14:58
   To: lute net 
   Subject: [LUTE] Switch to the new list?

Hi Folks -
 I expect this  list will close sometime between tomorrow and
 very
early
Wednesday morning.  Nancy Carlin announced a list sponsored by
 the
LSA recently.
  Wayne
Begin forwarded message:
From: Rainer <[1]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
Subject: [LUTE] Switch to the new list?
Date: September 26, 2020 at 8:38:41 AM EDT
To: Lute net <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Does anybody remember (Wayne? :)) when Wayne's server will be
 shut
down?
Isn't it time to migrate to the new list?
Rainer
To get on or off this list see list information at
[3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
 References
1. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Switch to the new list?

[Jussi-Pekka Lajunen]

See the message sent to this list by Nancy Carlin on 17th September.

Tristan von Neumann kirjoitti 26.9.2020 klo 17.41:

I haven't been paying attention very much lately.

Where is the new list and what do I need to do?



On 26.09.20 14:38, Rainer wrote:

Does anybody remember (Wayne? :)) when Wayne's server will be shut down?
Isn't it time to migrate to the new list?

Rainer



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Switch to the new list?

[Tristan von Neumann]

I haven't been paying attention very much lately.

Where is the new list and what do I need to do?



On 26.09.20 14:38, Rainer wrote:

Does anybody remember (Wayne? :)) when Wayne's server will be shut down?
Isn't it time to migrate to the new list?

Rainer



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Capirola translation

[Jussi-Pekka Lajunen]

   Thank you! Interestingly that "beginning" does make more sense to me
   when played only when the piece is repeated. It makes me wonder if
   Vidal really meant that this last strain is played as a beginning of
   the piece on both times or only on the second time.

   G. C. kirjoitti 25.9.2020 klo 12.52:

   4. End of nr. 29 Padoana ala francesa: torna da capo ex q?; Questo so
   il principio d dita padoana [16 bars] va seguitando
  poi la dita padoan in principio
  "Go to the beginning from here. This is the beginning of the said
   pavan [16 bars] then follows the said pavan from the
  beginning"
   [As to 4. Vidal obviously forgot to write the beginning of the pavan,
   and adds the bars at the end of the piece. A closer look at the end of
   the piece in the facsimile shows this clearly, with a crossing out of
   the three first chords of the piece, and then the instructions quoted
   above]

   Virus-free. [1]www.avast.com

   On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 9:50 PM Jussi-Pekka Lajunen
   <[2]jlaju...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Can anyone give me a translation of the texts on folio 48r of the
 Capirola MS (the third page of Padoana alla Francese No. 2) or
 explain
 what they mean?
 -- Jussi-Pekka Lajunen
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

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   2. mailto:jlaju...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   Hidden links:
   5. 
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon

[LUTE] Re: Lautenband

[Martyn Hodgson]

   Since the lute is so very light weight, all you need is cotton tape (or
   silk ribbon) some 1.1/2 ins (4cm) wide. You can even buy it in Germany!
   MH

   On Sunday, 20 September 2020, 08:41:52 BST, Rainer
wrote:
   Auf Deutsch, weil ich das nicht im Ausland kaufen will:
   Ich will doch noch mal versuchen mit einem Band zu spielen - Lauten
   kann man bekanntlich nicht halten.
   Spezielle Bänder für Lauten gibt es wohl nicht - wozu auch.
   Gitarrenbänder gibt es wie Sand am Meer (der wird wohl langsam knapp).
   Kann jemand ein Fabrikat empfehlen?
   Rainer
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lautenband

[Rainer]

In der Tat - Wenn man nach Lautengurt sucht.

Wenn man nach Lautenband sucht, findet man das berühmte "Mit dem grünen 
Lautenbande" von Schubert :)

Rainer

Am 20.09.2020 um 10:07 schrieb Joachim Lüdtke:

Dear Rainer,

there are lute straps as the sand on the sea, very much ...

As you are searching for a provider in your country, have a look on the website 
of lute builder Schossig.


Best

Joachim
  



-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] Lautenband
Datum: 2020-09-20T09:42:13+0200
Von: "Rainer" 
An: "Lute net" 

Auf Deutsch, weil ich das nicht im Ausland kaufen will:

Ich will doch noch mal versuchen mit einem Band zu spielen - Lauten kann man 
bekanntlich nicht halten.

Spezielle Bänder für Lauten gibt es wohl nicht - wozu auch. Gitarrenbänder gibt 
es wie Sand am Meer (der wird wohl langsam knapp).

Kann jemand ein Fabrikat empfehlen?

Rainer



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: Lautenband

[Mathias Rösel]

   Ach so, und NICHT von Ausland - tja, dann von Dieter Schossig.
   Mathias
 __

   Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
   --- Original-Nachricht ---
   Von: Mathias Rösel
   Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Lautenband
   Datum: 20. September 2020, 10:02
   An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu

   Arion straps von Tanja Skonk, die finde ich am besten.
   Mathias
   __
   Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
   --- Original-Nachricht ---
   Von: Rainer
   Betreff: [LUTE] Lautenband
   Datum: 20. September 2020, 9:40
   An: Lute net
   Auf Deutsch, weil ich das nicht im Ausland kaufen will:
   Ich will doch noch mal versuchen mit einem Band zu spielen - Lauten
   kann man bekanntlich nicht halten.
   Spezielle B����nder f����r Lauten 
gibt es wohl nicht -
   wozu auch.
   Gitarrenb����nder gibt es wie Sand am Meer (der wird wohl
   langsam knapp).
   Kann jemand ein Fabrikat empfehlen?
   Rainer
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --
   References
   1.
   [3]https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_androi
   d_sendmail_footer
   2. [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. 
https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   3. 
https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lautenband

[Joachim Lüdtke]

Dear Rainer,

there are lute straps as the sand on the sea, very much ...

As you are searching for a provider in your country, have a look on the website 
of lute builder Schossig.


Best

Joachim
 


-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] Lautenband
Datum: 2020-09-20T09:42:13+0200
Von: "Rainer" 
An: "Lute net" 

Auf Deutsch, weil ich das nicht im Ausland kaufen will:

Ich will doch noch mal versuchen mit einem Band zu spielen - Lauten kann man 
bekanntlich nicht halten.

Spezielle Bänder für Lauten gibt es wohl nicht - wozu auch. Gitarrenbänder gibt 
es wie Sand am Meer (der wird wohl langsam knapp).

Kann jemand ein Fabrikat empfehlen?

Rainer



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: Lautenband

[Mathias Rösel]

   Arion straps von Tanja Skonk, die finde ich am besten.
   Mathias
 __

   Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
   --- Original-Nachricht ---
   Von: Rainer
   Betreff: [LUTE] Lautenband
   Datum: 20. September 2020, 9:40
   An: Lute net

   Auf Deutsch, weil ich das nicht im Ausland kaufen will:
   Ich will doch noch mal versuchen mit einem Band zu spielen - Lauten
   kann man bekanntlich nicht halten.
   Spezielle Bänder für Lauten gibt es wohl nicht - wozu auch.
   Gitarrenbänder gibt es wie Sand am Meer (der wird wohl langsam knapp).
   Kann jemand ein Fabrikat empfehlen?
   Rainer
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. 
https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Concert on demand streaming September 25 - October 4

[John Trout]

   Hi everyone, I wanted to clarify that the Opening Night Watch Party on
   Friday September 25^th at 7 PM will premier Richard's concert.  If you
   can't attend this, it is available for streaming after that through
   October 4^th.


   John



   Dear fellow Lute Enthusiasts,


   I would like to let you know about an upcoming Baroque Lute Concert
   recorded live and streaming from Sep 25 - Oct 4 online.  I think you
   all might enjoy it.


   As part of Tempesta di Mare's Artist Recital Series, Richard Stone will
   play German and Austrian lute music from the high baroque.

   This recital features three grand-scale highlights of the baroque lute
   repertoire: Johann

   Sebastian Bach's eloquent and nostalgic "Pièces pour le Luth à Monsieur
   Schouster", Silvius

   Leopold Weiss's bold, forward-looking Sonata 43, and a magnificent
   Passacaglia Grave by

   Georg Muffat that encapsulates the style that Bach was musing upon and
   Weiss departing

   from in their suites.


   There are several options to view and experience the event (all times
   Eastern US).


   First there is the Opening Night Watch Party on Friday September 25  at
   7 PM

   The Concert then is available for streaming on demand through Oct 4

   On  Sunday September 27^th at 5 PM Cameron Welkes, with guest Richard
   Stone, host a live discussion on the link between the constructive and
   repertoire developments of the lutes, in a related Tempesta Talks


   Ticket options:  Choose your preferred way to enjoy the concert and the
   talks.  Prices are $20 - $40.


   Direct Link to Info and Ticketing -

   [1]https://tempestadimare.secure.force.com/ticket/#/events/a0S0H0O1
   XCkUAN


   Tickets and Information:   [2]Tempestadimare.org.   215-755-8776

   Instagram and Facebook:   @philadelphiatempesta


   Also check out Tempesta's full season of Baroque Music which will also
   be available on line by streaming.  Their next concert is The Four
   Winds, October 23-25


   With every performance, Tempesta di Mare creates a sense of discovery.
   From innovative

   programming that has resulted in over 35 modern world premieres of lost
   and forgotten

   baroque masterpieces, to the ensemble's signature interpretive approach
   evoking drama

   and emotion—their performances are true to their name: "storm at sea."


   Best Regards,  John


   --

References

   1. https://tempestadimare.secure.force.com/ticket/#/events/a0S0H0O1XCkUAN
   2. http://tempestadimare.org/


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[LUTE] Re: Pavana alla veniciana

[Ralf Mattes]

On 15.09.20 19:33, Rainer wrote:

Dear lute netters,

the Tabualturbeilage 2018/4 contains a few pieces from Judenkunig's 
Underweisung.


One of the pieces - the pvavana all Veniciana - looks very strange. Bars 
15, 23, 31, 39 and 47 (attention: the barring in the Tabulaturbeilage is 
a mess) contain a minim(?) rest which does not make any musical sense.


I think Judenkunig uses it to indicate that the previous note is dotted. 
Apparent he had no other means to indicate dotted rhythm)


Well, this is the common notation for _rests_ in german lute tablature.
The distinction between rests and dots is often blurry in early 16th 
century sources. Dotted notes are often notated as either rests or 
repeated notes/chords.


 Cheers, RalfD




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[LUTE] Re: Great performance

[G. C.]

   And the pessimistic lyrics are perhaps even as relevant today as they
   were 500 years ago.

   G

   --


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[LUTE] Re: Great performance

[Tristan von Neumann]

As I only started playing when Sarge's Archive was already well-filled,

I decided to start with Neusidler's book. It's really the best book for
beginners.

Other tutors are not as thoughtful.

Poulton was the worst: hey, let's play Packington's Pound, and then a
Fantasia by de Rippe...

While the learning curve in Neusidler is friendly, the music is
generally beautifully set and rewarding.

If you have someone who can sing the songs, or if you sing, the two
voice settings are very nice already.



On 14.09.20 23:26, Christopher Stetson wrote:

Thanks, Tristan, for the reference.
I have to admit Neusidler hasn't received  the attention he (they)
deserve from me.   Back when I was an enthusiastic young lutenist he
was largely unavailable due to the "language" barrier.   I did make a
desultory attempt or two at learning German tablature, but, well...
And now it's all available translated!
Stay safe and keep playing,
Chris.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 4:48 PM Tristan von Neumann
<[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

  If you want to play it, the Hans Neusidler version is nice and easy.
  Of course, his son also made a difficult version...
  On 14.09.20 13:52, Christopher Stetson wrote:
  >  Hi, Tristan and all,
  >  I was not familiar   with the song (and now I feel
  inadequate), but yes,
  >  it is a beautiful and accomplished performance,Thanks!
  >  Stay safe and keep playing,
  >  Chris.
  >
  >  On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 9:46 PM Tristan von Neumann
  >  <[1][2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
  >
  >I just found this version of a song that is probably
  familiar to all
  >lutists.
  >[2][3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
  >I don't know about you, but I think that's extremely
  beautiful.
  >To get on or off this list see list information at
  >
  [3][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  >
  >  --
  >
  > References
  >
  >  1. mailto:[5]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
  >  2. [6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
  >  3. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  >

--

References

1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
2. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
5. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Great performance

[Christopher Stetson]

   Thanks, Tristan, for the reference.
   I have to admit Neusidler hasn't received  the attention he (they)
   deserve from me.   Back when I was an enthusiastic young lutenist he
   was largely unavailable due to the "language" barrier.   I did make a
   desultory attempt or two at learning German tablature, but, well...
   And now it's all available translated!
   Stay safe and keep playing,
   Chris.

   On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 4:48 PM Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

 If you want to play it, the Hans Neusidler version is nice and easy.
 Of course, his son also made a difficult version...
 On 14.09.20 13:52, Christopher Stetson wrote:
 >  Hi, Tristan and all,
 >  I was not familiar   with the song (and now I feel
 inadequate), but yes,
 >  it is a beautiful and accomplished performance,Thanks!
 >  Stay safe and keep playing,
 >  Chris.
 >
 >  On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 9:46 PM Tristan von Neumann
 >  <[1][2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
 >
 >I just found this version of a song that is probably
 familiar to all
 >lutists.
 >[2][3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
 >I don't know about you, but I think that's extremely
 beautiful.
 >To get on or off this list see list information at
 >
 [3][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 >
 >  --
 >
 > References
 >
 >  1. mailto:[5]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
 >  2. [6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
 >  3. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 >

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   5. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Great performance

[Tristan von Neumann]

If you want to play it, the Hans Neusidler version is nice and easy.

Of course, his son also made a difficult version...


On 14.09.20 13:52, Christopher Stetson wrote:

Hi, Tristan and all,
I was not familiar  with the song (and now I feel inadequate), but yes,
it is a beautiful and accomplished performance,   Thanks!
Stay safe and keep playing,
Chris.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 9:46 PM Tristan von Neumann
<[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

  I just found this version of a song that is probably familiar to all
  lutists.
  [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
  I don't know about you, but I think that's extremely beautiful.
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Great performance

[Timothy Swain]

   Incredibly beautiful! Thanks to you, Tristan--for locating
   this--(superb performers!)

   On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 6:44 PM Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

 I just found this version of a song that is probably familiar to all
 lutists.
 [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
 I don't know about you, but I think that's extremely beautiful.
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Great performance

[Christopher Stetson]

   Hi, Tristan and all,
   I was not familiar  with the song (and now I feel inadequate), but yes,
   it is a beautiful and accomplished performance,   Thanks!
   Stay safe and keep playing,
   Chris.

   On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 9:46 PM Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

 I just found this version of a song that is probably familiar to all
 lutists.
 [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
 I don't know about you, but I think that's extremely beautiful.
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMKE6HLOrc
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Downland/Byrd on 10-course lute (was: Ringfinger)

[David van Ooijen]

   Ensemble music for voice, viol and lute: the mass for three voices and
   some 5- and 6-part choral works performed by the two and/or three of
   us. My own intabulations and/or simply read from the score.
   David
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
   ***

   On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 at 10:37, Moshe Davis <[3]zaydiemo...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

Hello David,
You mentioned that you gave a concert of Dowland and Byrd on
 10-course
lute. Which pieces from Byrd did you perform? I wasn't aware that
 there
is much available in tablature from Byrd.
Thanks in advance,
Moshe Davis
Jerusalem
I have a nasty callus on my ring finger at the moment,
 studied too
much
   romantic guitar last week, so I did my concert (Dowland and
 Byrd on
   10-course lute) without ring finger today. Lovely tone, much
 better!
   David
--
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   3. mailto:zaydiemo...@gmail.com
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Weird tradition

[Daniel Shoskes]

I’m sure lutelister David Tayler can explain their choics although it’s not 
listed as an instrument in the performance.

> On Sep 13, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Tristan von Neumann  
> wrote:
> 
> I just noticed the glockenspiel in this performance:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JWYIY3icUg
> 
> 
> I wonder why it is there. It seems to have come from this iconic recording:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmHR6GWQOWU
> 
> 
> Does anyone know how they justified it?
> 
> Not that this instrument wasn't around, but...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lutegroup Progress

[Daniel Shoskes]

I just realized that Frank sent this to the lutelist rather than directly back 
to me.
To clear up any confusion if present, the ning lutegroup cannot function as an 
email chat group, it’s forum based. 
That was the case with the old Ning 2.0 platform and the current Ning 3.0 
platform, despite its several improvements

Danny

> On Sep 11, 2020, at 5:06 PM, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.  wrote:
> 
>   I really appreciate your efforts, David, but as I mentioned, one of the
>   things I have liked about the old group is that for me it is easier to
>   use.  I simply get messages put in my "lute list" folder automatically,
>   and thus I can store them readily on my local machine. It is also
>   useful to have a pane containing a list of, say, 20 emails with their
>   subjects so I can easily select which ones to look at or respond to
>   instead of having to scroll down a list of partially displayed
>   messages. I can also delete the messages that I don't need so they
>   don't get in the way of the ones I do need. Maybe there will be ways of
>   using the new group that can answer these concerns, and maybe it's just
>   that this old dog can't learn new tricks that easily, but as things
>   stand I will find the new list less useful.
>   --Sarge
> 
>   On 9/11/2020 12:17, Lutegroup wrote:
> 
>   A couple days into the upgrade and very few major issues reported.
>   Thankfully all login information seems to have transferred OK.
> 
>   Remaining issues
> 
>   1) At first all videos embedded from YouTube or Vimeo added before 2014
>   were not showing up properly. The YouTube issue was fixed but
>   apparently old Vimeo embeds used Flash in a way not supported in 3.0. I
>   think this impacts very few older videos. If it impacts you, my
>   apologies and please feel free to re-upload/embed again. Should be no
>   problem with the new embed codes from Vimeo
> 
>   2) Some new members have old accounts under another email. If this
>   applies to you and you did this on purpose, please let me know which of
>   the accounts you would like me to delete.
> 
>   3) One of the features I did not activate was a personal Blog page. I
>   felt that most personal musings could have a home in the discussion
>   forum or events page and it was a minimally utilized feature on the old
>   site. I made a mistake when I set up the personal web page and included
>   a place for adding blogs, but since there was no actual blog page it
>   didn't show. Please let me know if you would want this feature on the
>   new site and as long as people are not writing 10,000 page manifestos
>   we could support it.
> 
>   Daniel Shoskes ([1]dshos...@mac.com)
> 
>   Visit Lutegroup at:
>   [2]https://lutegroup.ning.com/?xg_source=msg_mes_network
> 
> 
>   To control which emails you receive on Lutegroup, [3]click here
> 
> --
> Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([4]sa...@gerbode.net)
> 11132 Dell Ave
> Forestville, CA 95436-9491
> Home phone:  707-820-1759
> Website:  [5]http://www.gerbode.net
> "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:dshos...@mac.com
>   2. https://lutegroup.ning.com/?xg_source=msg_mes_network
>   3. 
> https://Lutegroup.ning.com/main/profilesettings/email?xg_source=msg_mes_network
>   4. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
>   5. http://www.gerbode.net/
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lutegroup Progress

[Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.]

   I really appreciate your efforts, David, but as I mentioned, one of the
   things I have liked about the old group is that for me it is easier to
   use.  I simply get messages put in my "lute list" folder automatically,
   and thus I can store them readily on my local machine. It is also
   useful to have a pane containing a list of, say, 20 emails with their
   subjects so I can easily select which ones to look at or respond to
   instead of having to scroll down a list of partially displayed
   messages. I can also delete the messages that I don't need so they
   don't get in the way of the ones I do need. Maybe there will be ways of
   using the new group that can answer these concerns, and maybe it's just
   that this old dog can't learn new tricks that easily, but as things
   stand I will find the new list less useful.
   --Sarge

   On 9/11/2020 12:17, Lutegroup wrote:

   A couple days into the upgrade and very few major issues reported.
   Thankfully all login information seems to have transferred OK.

   Remaining issues

   1) At first all videos embedded from YouTube or Vimeo added before 2014
   were not showing up properly. The YouTube issue was fixed but
   apparently old Vimeo embeds used Flash in a way not supported in 3.0. I
   think this impacts very few older videos. If it impacts you, my
   apologies and please feel free to re-upload/embed again. Should be no
   problem with the new embed codes from Vimeo

   2) Some new members have old accounts under another email. If this
   applies to you and you did this on purpose, please let me know which of
   the accounts you would like me to delete.

   3) One of the features I did not activate was a personal Blog page. I
   felt that most personal musings could have a home in the discussion
   forum or events page and it was a minimally utilized feature on the old
   site. I made a mistake when I set up the personal web page and included
   a place for adding blogs, but since there was no actual blog page it
   didn't show. Please let me know if you would want this feature on the
   new site and as long as people are not writing 10,000 page manifestos
   we could support it.

   Daniel Shoskes ([1]dshos...@mac.com)

   Visit Lutegroup at:
   [2]https://lutegroup.ning.com/?xg_source=msg_mes_network


   To control which emails you receive on Lutegroup, [3]click here

--
Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([4]sa...@gerbode.net)
11132 Dell Ave
Forestville, CA 95436-9491
Home phone:  707-820-1759
Website:  [5]http://www.gerbode.net
"The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."

   --

References

   1. mailto:dshos...@mac.com
   2. https://lutegroup.ning.com/?xg_source=msg_mes_network
   3. 
https://Lutegroup.ning.com/main/profilesettings/email?xg_source=msg_mes_network
   4. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
   5. http://www.gerbode.net/


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

[Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.]

Yes, I understood that the Battaglia is truly in two parts. I was 
looking to see if there was a second *duet* part, to fill in what I now 
understand to be gaps in the MS, as explained well by Jussi-Pekka 
Lajunen .  Looking at the vocal score I can see the 
gaps would be filled in by a second 4-voiced choir.  I understand that 
Andre Nieuwlaat  is going to look for a second 
lute part (terminology is confusing, here), somewhere.  Absent that, the 
second part will have to be reconstructed from the vocal score.


--Sarge

On 9/10/2020 14:01, Sean Smith wrote:

The battle of Jannequin traditionally has had a first and second part,
sequentially.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 1:00 PM guy_and_liz Smith
<[1]guy_and_...@msn.com> wrote:

  I've played a lot of Renaissance polyphony in facsimile (on
  sackbut), and in that context, secunda pars means exactly what Ron
  describes. With large numbers of voices, you will sometimes see XYZ
  Vox to indicate a part/voice by number, such as Quinta Vox, but I've
  never seen "pars" used to indicate a part/voice .
  Guy
  -Original Message-
  From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
  [mailto:[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Ron
  Andrico
  Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 12:35 PM
  To: Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.; Jussi-Pekka Lajunen;
  [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2
 Sarge, I think you'll find that the term _secunda pars_
  universally
 applies to the second section of a composition that was conceived
  in
 more than one section, typically setting the continuation of a
  long
 poem or another sectional text.
 For instance, in Phalese _Luculentum Theatrum Musicum_, 1568,
  you'll
 find on f.58v the Secunda pars and Tertia pars of a solo lute
  setting
 of Josquin's motet, Benedicta es.   The rubrics indicate that the
  motet
 was composed in three sequential sections.   On the following
  page, f.
 59, you will find lute duets with the heading,_Sequntur deinceps
 carmina, duabus testudinibus accomoda_ ([music] following the
  sacred
 songs is accommodated for two lutes).   The two different lute
  parts are
 not labeled other than the fact that the primary part carries an
 indication that this particular duet is _ad secundum_, or for
  lutes
 tuned a step apart, and of course the duet part is printed upside
  down
 so both can play from the same book.
 There seems to have been no standard convention in labeling the
 separate parts of a lute duet but the most typical indication for
 different parts was to label them superius, bassus, or tenor,
  such as
 found in Pacoloni, 1564.   Nevertheless, _secunda pars_   is not
  likely
 an indication for a separate instrumental part.
 RA

  __
 From: [5]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
 <[6]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of Frank A.
  Gerbode,
 M.D. <[7]sa...@gerbode.net>
 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 3:45 PM
 To: Jussi-Pekka Lajunen <[8]jlaju...@gmail.com>;
  [9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
     <[10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2
 Oh!   I didn't find that score.   Thanks so much! One approach
  would be
 to
 intabulate the missing parts from the score, as a second lute
  part
 (maybe using red notes) or just to fill them in so a single lute
  could
 play the complete piece.
 Since the first part does not have gaps or red notes, it, too
  might
 have
 to be edited (red notes or whatever) to fit the score.
 All that is a bit of an undertaking.
 Meanwhile, I am soldiering on through the MS.
 --Sarge
 On 9/9/2020 15:31, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:
 > No, I haven't seen, but the numbers correspond to the duration
  of
 > rests in the first choir's part (and the nine semibreve long
  section
 > not included in the tablature). If you look at the score[1],
  you can
 > see there are rests that last for two semibreves on page 25,
  for five
 > semibreves on page 27, for 11 semibreves on pages 30â32, for
  three
 > semibreves on page 36, for six semibreves on pages 38â39 and
  for 13
 > semibreves on pages 40â42. Then there is a nine semibreve long
 section
 > on pages 33â34 that is missing from the tablature.
 >
 > There is no second lute p

[LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

[Sean Smith]

   The battle of Jannequin traditionally has had a first and second part,
   sequentially.

   On Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 1:00 PM guy_and_liz Smith
   <[1]guy_and_...@msn.com> wrote:

 I've played a lot of Renaissance polyphony in facsimile (on
 sackbut), and in that context, secunda pars means exactly what Ron
 describes. With large numbers of voices, you will sometimes see XYZ
 Vox to indicate a part/voice by number, such as Quinta Vox, but I've
 never seen "pars" used to indicate a part/voice .
 Guy
 -Original Message-
 From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
 [mailto:[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Ron
 Andrico
 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 12:35 PM
 To: Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.; Jussi-Pekka Lajunen;
 [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2
Sarge, I think you'll find that the term _secunda pars_
 universally
applies to the second section of a composition that was conceived
 in
more than one section, typically setting the continuation of a
 long
poem or another sectional text.
For instance, in Phalese _Luculentum Theatrum Musicum_, 1568,
 you'll
find on f.58v the Secunda pars and Tertia pars of a solo lute
 setting
of Josquin's motet, Benedicta es.   The rubrics indicate that the
 motet
was composed in three sequential sections.   On the following
 page, f.
59, you will find lute duets with the heading,_Sequntur deinceps
carmina, duabus testudinibus accomoda_ ([music] following the
 sacred
songs is accommodated for two lutes).   The two different lute
 parts are
not labeled other than the fact that the primary part carries an
indication that this particular duet is _ad secundum_, or for
 lutes
tuned a step apart, and of course the duet part is printed upside
 down
so both can play from the same book.
There seems to have been no standard convention in labeling the
separate parts of a lute duet but the most typical indication for
different parts was to label them superius, bassus, or tenor,
 such as
found in Pacoloni, 1564.   Nevertheless, _secunda pars_   is not
 likely
an indication for a separate instrumental part.
RA

 __
From: [5]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
<[6]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of Frank A.
 Gerbode,
M.D. <[7]sa...@gerbode.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 3:45 PM
To: Jussi-Pekka Lajunen <[8]jlaju...@gmail.com>;
 [9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
    <[10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2
Oh!   I didn't find that score.   Thanks so much! One approach
 would be
to
intabulate the missing parts from the score, as a second lute
 part
(maybe using red notes) or just to fill them in so a single lute
 could
play the complete piece.
Since the first part does not have gaps or red notes, it, too
 might
have
to be edited (red notes or whatever) to fit the score.
All that is a bit of an undertaking.
Meanwhile, I am soldiering on through the MS.
--Sarge
On 9/9/2020 15:31, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:
> No, I haven't seen, but the numbers correspond to the duration
 of
> rests in the first choir's part (and the nine semibreve long
 section
> not included in the tablature). If you look at the score[1],
 you can
> see there are rests that last for two semibreves on page 25,
 for five
> semibreves on page 27, for 11 semibreves on pages 30â32, for
 three
> semibreves on page 36, for six semibreves on pages 38â39 and
 for 13
> semibreves on pages 40â42. Then there is a nine semibreve long
section
> on pages 33â34 that is missing from the tablature.
>
> There is no second lute part on the spreads in question
 (neither in
> red notes nor reversed), which is the reason why I thought that
 the
> possible second lute part might not be in the same manuscript.
>
> [1]
>

 [1][11]https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2
 F%2Fks.petruccimusiclibrary.org%2Ffiles%2Fimglnks%2Fusimg%2F4%2F41%2
 FIMSLP145&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1d122b2434f14668a1e508d855c0e2c1%7C8
 4df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637353634211155008&sda
 ta=WpwxBSNuL32CEyzsR%2F2csoPK5fkznKS2gzIkUs0JqXA%3D&reserved=0
459-WIMA.26bd-battu.pdf
   

[LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I've played a lot of Renaissance polyphony in facsimile (on sackbut), and in 
that context, secunda pars means exactly what Ron describes. With large numbers 
of voices, you will sometimes see XYZ Vox to indicate a part/voice by number, 
such as Quinta Vox, but I've never seen "pars" used to indicate a part/voice .

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Ron Andrico
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 12:35 PM
To: Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.; Jussi-Pekka Lajunen; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

   Sarge, I think you'll find that the term _secunda pars_ universally
   applies to the second section of a composition that was conceived in
   more than one section, typically setting the continuation of a long
   poem or another sectional text.

   For instance, in Phalese _Luculentum Theatrum Musicum_, 1568, you'll
   find on f.58v the Secunda pars and Tertia pars of a solo lute setting
   of Josquin's motet, Benedicta es.  The rubrics indicate that the motet
   was composed in three sequential sections.  On the following page, f.
   59, you will find lute duets with the heading,_Sequntur deinceps
   carmina, duabus testudinibus accomoda_ ([music] following the sacred
   songs is accommodated for two lutes).  The two different lute parts are
   not labeled other than the fact that the primary part carries an
   indication that this particular duet is _ad secundum_, or for lutes
   tuned a step apart, and of course the duet part is printed upside down
   so both can play from the same book.

   There seems to have been no standard convention in labeling the
   separate parts of a lute duet but the most typical indication for
   different parts was to label them superius, bassus, or tenor, such as
   found in Pacoloni, 1564.  Nevertheless, _secunda pars_  is not likely
   an indication for a separate instrumental part.

   RA
 __

   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of Frank A. Gerbode,
   M.D. 
   Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 3:45 PM
   To: Jussi-Pekka Lajunen ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

   Oh!  I didn't find that score.  Thanks so much! One approach would be
   to
   intabulate the missing parts from the score, as a second lute part
   (maybe using red notes) or just to fill them in so a single lute could
   play the complete piece.
   Since the first part does not have gaps or red notes, it, too might
   have
   to be edited (red notes or whatever) to fit the score.
   All that is a bit of an undertaking.
   Meanwhile, I am soldiering on through the MS.
   --Sarge
   On 9/9/2020 15:31, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:
   > No, I haven't seen, but the numbers correspond to the duration of
   > rests in the first choir's part (and the nine semibreve long section
   > not included in the tablature). If you look at the score[1], you can
   > see there are rests that last for two semibreves on page 25, for five
   > semibreves on page 27, for 11 semibreves on pages 30–32, for three
   > semibreves on page 36, for six semibreves on pages 38–39 and for 13
   > semibreves on pages 40–42. Then there is a nine semibreve long
   section
   > on pages 33–34 that is missing from the tablature.
   >
   > There is no second lute part on the spreads in question (neither in
   > red notes nor reversed), which is the reason why I thought that the
   > possible second lute part might not be in the same manuscript.
   >
   > [1]
   >
   
[1]https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fks.petruccimusiclibrary.org%2Ffiles%2Fimglnks%2Fusimg%2F4%2F41%2FIMSLP145&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1d122b2434f14668a1e508d855c0e2c1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637353634211155008&sdata=WpwxBSNuL32CEyzsR%2F2csoPK5fkznKS2gzIkUs0JqXA%3D&reserved=0
   459-WIMA.26bd-battu.pdf
   >
   > Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 10.9.2020 klo 0.08:
   >> Well, as we have discussed, the red notes are apparently played from
   >> the same score on a second lute, and elsewhere in Eysert, there
   are
   >> apparently both parts of some duets, some reversed to play off
   >> the same
   >> MS (haven't run across them yet). That suggests that there may
   >> not be a
   >> second part book, which doesn't mean a second part isn't lurking
   in
   >> some other random MS.
   >> I we ignore the # º notations entirely, Part 2 sounds quite all
   >> right to
   >> my ears as is, so the notations might mean something entirely
   >> different...
   >> Andre Nieuwlaat is going to hunt around and see if he can find 

[LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

[Ron Andrico]

   Sarge, I think you'll find that the term _secunda pars_ universally
   applies to the second section of a composition that was conceived in
   more than one section, typically setting the continuation of a long
   poem or another sectional text.

   For instance, in Phalese _Luculentum Theatrum Musicum_, 1568, you'll
   find on f.58v the Secunda pars and Tertia pars of a solo lute setting
   of Josquin's motet, Benedicta es.  The rubrics indicate that the motet
   was composed in three sequential sections.  On the following page, f.
   59, you will find lute duets with the heading,_Sequntur deinceps
   carmina, duabus testudinibus accomoda_ ([music] following the sacred
   songs is accommodated for two lutes).  The two different lute parts are
   not labeled other than the fact that the primary part carries an
   indication that this particular duet is _ad secundum_, or for lutes
   tuned a step apart, and of course the duet part is printed upside down
   so both can play from the same book.

   There seems to have been no standard convention in labeling the
   separate parts of a lute duet but the most typical indication for
   different parts was to label them superius, bassus, or tenor, such as
   found in Pacoloni, 1564.  Nevertheless, _secunda pars_  is not likely
   an indication for a separate instrumental part.

   RA
 __

   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of Frank A. Gerbode,
   M.D. 
   Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 3:45 PM
   To: Jussi-Pekka Lajunen ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

   Oh!  I didn't find that score.  Thanks so much! One approach would be
   to
   intabulate the missing parts from the score, as a second lute part
   (maybe using red notes) or just to fill them in so a single lute could
   play the complete piece.
   Since the first part does not have gaps or red notes, it, too might
   have
   to be edited (red notes or whatever) to fit the score.
   All that is a bit of an undertaking.
   Meanwhile, I am soldiering on through the MS.
   --Sarge
   On 9/9/2020 15:31, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:
   > No, I haven't seen, but the numbers correspond to the duration of
   > rests in the first choir's part (and the nine semibreve long section
   > not included in the tablature). If you look at the score[1], you can
   > see there are rests that last for two semibreves on page 25, for five
   > semibreves on page 27, for 11 semibreves on pages 30–32, for three
   > semibreves on page 36, for six semibreves on pages 38–39 and for 13
   > semibreves on pages 40–42. Then there is a nine semibreve long
   section
   > on pages 33–34 that is missing from the tablature.
   >
   > There is no second lute part on the spreads in question (neither in
   > red notes nor reversed), which is the reason why I thought that the
   > possible second lute part might not be in the same manuscript.
   >
   > [1]
   >
   [1]http://ks.petruccimusiclibrary.org/files/imglnks/usimg/4/41/IMSLP145
   459-WIMA.26bd-battu.pdf
   >
   > Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 10.9.2020 klo 0.08:
   >> Well, as we have discussed, the red notes are apparently played from
   >> the same score on a second lute, and elsewhere in Eysert, there
   are
   >> apparently both parts of some duets, some reversed to play off
   >> the same
   >> MS (haven't run across them yet). That suggests that there may
   >> not be a
   >> second part book, which doesn't mean a second part isn't lurking
   in
   >> some other random MS.
   >> I we ignore the # º notations entirely, Part 2 sounds quite all
   >> right to
   >> my ears as is, so the notations might mean something entirely
   >> different...
   >> Andre Nieuwlaat is going to hunt around and see if he can find a
   >> second
   >> part. Perhaps it would have similar notations to indicate
   missing
   >> bars,
   >> meant to be played from the version in Eysert.
   >> Have you seen notations like this anywhere else in the lute
   >> literature?  I haven't.
   >
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --
   Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. (sa...@gerbode.net)
   11132 Dell Ave
   Forestville, CA 95436-9491
   Home phone:  707-820-1759
   Website:  [3]http://www.gerbode.net
   "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."

   Virus-free. [4]www.avast.com

   --

References

   Visible links:
   1. 
http://ks.petruccimusiclibrary.org/files/imglnks/usimg/4/41/IMSLP145459-WIMA.26bd-battu.pdf
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute

[LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

[Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.]

Oh!  I didn't find that score.  Thanks so much! One approach would be to 
intabulate the missing parts from the score, as a second lute part 
(maybe using red notes) or just to fill them in so a single lute could 
play the complete piece.


Since the first part does not have gaps or red notes, it, too might have 
to be edited (red notes or whatever) to fit the score.


All that is a bit of an undertaking.

Meanwhile, I am soldiering on through the MS.

--Sarge

On 9/9/2020 15:31, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:
No, I haven't seen, but the numbers correspond to the duration of 
rests in the first choir's part (and the nine semibreve long section 
not included in the tablature). If you look at the score[1], you can 
see there are rests that last for two semibreves on page 25, for five 
semibreves on page 27, for 11 semibreves on pages 30–32, for three 
semibreves on page 36, for six semibreves on pages 38–39 and for 13 
semibreves on pages 40–42. Then there is a nine semibreve long section 
on pages 33–34 that is missing from the tablature.


There is no second lute part on the spreads in question (neither in 
red notes nor reversed), which is the reason why I thought that the 
possible second lute part might not be in the same manuscript.


[1] 
http://ks.petruccimusiclibrary.org/files/imglnks/usimg/4/41/IMSLP145459-WIMA.26bd-battu.pdf


Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 10.9.2020 klo 0.08:

Well, as we have discussed, the red notes are apparently played from
    the same score on a second lute, and elsewhere in Eysert, there are
    apparently both parts of some duets, some reversed to play off 
the same
    MS (haven't run across them yet). That suggests that there may 
not be a

    second part book, which doesn't mean a second part isn't lurking in
    some other random MS.
    I we ignore the #º notations entirely, Part 2 sounds quite all 
right to

    my ears as is, so the notations might mean something entirely
    different...
    Andre Nieuwlaat is going to hunt around and see if he can find a 
second
    part. Perhaps it would have similar notations to indicate missing 
bars,

    meant to be played from the version in Eysert.
    Have you seen notations like this anywhere else in the lute
    literature?  I haven't.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--
Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. (sa...@gerbode.net)
11132 Dell Ave
Forestville, CA 95436-9491
Home phone:  707-820-1759
Website:  http://www.gerbode.net
"The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."

[LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

[Jussi-Pekka Lajunen]

No, I haven't seen, but the numbers correspond to the duration of rests 
in the first choir's part (and the nine semibreve long section not 
included in the tablature). If you look at the score[1], you can see 
there are rests that last for two semibreves on page 25, for five 
semibreves on page 27, for 11 semibreves on pages 30–32, for three 
semibreves on page 36, for six semibreves on pages 38–39 and for 13 
semibreves on pages 40–42. Then there is a nine semibreve long section 
on pages 33–34 that is missing from the tablature.


There is no second lute part on the spreads in question (neither in red 
notes nor reversed), which is the reason why I thought that the possible 
second lute part might not be in the same manuscript.


[1] 
http://ks.petruccimusiclibrary.org/files/imglnks/usimg/4/41/IMSLP145459-WIMA.26bd-battu.pdf


Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 10.9.2020 klo 0.08:

Well, as we have discussed, the red notes are apparently played from
the same score on a second lute, and elsewhere in Eysert, there are
apparently both parts of some duets, some reversed to play off the same
MS (haven't run across them yet). That suggests that there may not be a
second part book, which doesn't mean a second part isn't lurking in
some other random MS.
I we ignore the #º notations entirely, Part 2 sounds quite all right to
my ears as is, so the notations might mean something entirely
different...
Andre Nieuwlaat is going to hunt around and see if he can find a second
part. Perhaps it would have similar notations to indicate missing bars,
meant to be played from the version in Eysert.
Have you seen notations like this anywhere else in the lute
literature?  I haven't.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

[Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.]

   Well, as we have discussed, the red notes are apparently played from
   the same score on a second lute, and elsewhere in Eysert, there are
   apparently both parts of some duets, some reversed to play off the same
   MS (haven't run across them yet). That suggests that there may not be a
   second part book, which doesn't mean a second part isn't lurking in
   some other random MS.
   I we ignore the #º notations entirely, Part 2 sounds quite all right to
   my ears as is, so the notations might mean something entirely
   different...
   Andre Nieuwlaat is going to hunt around and see if he can find a second
   part. Perhaps it would have similar notations to indicate missing bars,
   meant to be played from the version in Eysert.
   Have you seen notations like this anywhere else in the lute
   literature?  I haven't.  The numbers above the staff I have seen have
   been numbers for variations ( as in [1]V Galilei's infamous Romanesca
   variations, where they go up to 100) or above the repeat  double bar at
   the end of a repeated section to say how many times it is repeated
   (usually 2, but I have seen 3).
   --Sarge

   On 9/9/2020 11:48, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:

 The Secunda pars" is "Seconda Parte" of Battaglia by Orazio Vecchi.
 See page 25:
 [2]http://ks.petruccimusiclibrary.org/files/imglnks/usimg/4/41/IMSLP
 145459-WIMA.26bd-battu.pdf
 Also see:
 [3]https://i.imgur.com/fhZWglm.png
 I guess the second choir's part is not in the same lute book. It
 would not make sense to have it there anyway if the intabulation was
 meant to be played by two lutenists.
 Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 9.9.2020 klo 21.18:

 Hmmm. I don't see another version of the Battaglia.  There is a
 Part 1
 (same file), which has 72 bars, where part 2 has 55.  If we add
 a total
 of 30 interpolated bars to part 2, we get 85 bars, so the bar
 numbers
 still wouldn't fit between the two parts, and I have not tried
 to see
 if the harmonies would fit if I tried combining the two parts as
 a
 duet. The source doesn't specify what the "Secunda pars" on f.
 62v is a
 part 2 of, but it seems to be a battle type piece, so it's
 logical to
 include it as Part 2 of the Bataglia on ff. 65v-66. The
 Galliarda Graff
 vonn Schwartzenburg at the bottom of f.66 seems to be a "filler"
 between the two parts, unrelated to them. I guess paper was at a
 premium, so there was a tendency to fill in any blanks. To me,
 then,
 it's still a mystery.
 --Sarge
 On 9/8/2020 11:07, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:
   They seem to indicate the duration of rests. In this case
 there are
   no red notes. I wonder if there is a intabulation of the
 second
   choir's part elsewhere in the manuscript.
   See:

 [1][4]https://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/145459/sv06
   Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 8.9.2020 klo 18.47:
   After bars 2, 5, 13, 17, 22, 26, and 31 in this piece, there
 are
   numbers, like #°6, #°13, etc.  Can anyone help 
me
 figure out what
   this
   might mean?
   --Sarge
   --
   Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([[5]2]sa...@gerbode.net)
   11132 Dell Ave
   Forestville, CA 95436-9491
   Home phone:  707-820-1759
   Website:[3][6]http://www.gerbode.net
   "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."
   --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
 Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([[8]5]sa...@gerbode.net)
 11132 Dell Ave
 Forestville, CA 95436-9491
 Home phone:  707-820-1759
 Website:  [6][9]http://www.gerbode.net
 "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."
 --
 References
 1. [10]https://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/145459/sv06
 2. [11]mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
 3. [12]http://www.gerbode.net/
 4. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 5. [14]mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
 6. [15]http://www.gerbode.net/

--
Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([16]sa...@gerbode.net)
11132 Dell Ave
Forestville, CA 95436-9491
Home phone:  707-820-1759
Website:  [17]http://www.gerbode.net
"The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."

   --

References

   1. 
http://gerbode.net/sources/GalileiV/libro_d_intavolatura_di_liuto_1584/v1/romanesca_11_Fm_with_100_parts/pdf/
   2. 
http://ks.petruccimusiclibrary.org/files/imglnks/usimg/4/41/IMSLP145459-WIMA.26bd-battu.pdf
   3. https://i.imgur.com/fhZWglm.png
   4. https://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/145459/sv06
   5. mailto:2]sa...@gerbode.net
   6. http://www.gerbode.net/
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wb

[LUTE] Re: Rethorique des Dieux, English translation of preface?

[David van Ooijen]

   Thank you all who helped me (JM, Ron, GS, David S in particular) and so
   fast! I feel ashamed  to answer you so late (had a day of guitar
   teaching - bread and butter, you know the story).
   One more reason to keep this list afloat - in whatever  form - we get
   by with a little help from our friends (early music quote alert).
   David
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
   ***
   On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 at 18:22, David Smith <[3]d...@dolcesfogato.com>
   wrote:

 Acadamia.edu has a copy for free if you want. I sent a copy to
 David.
 David
 -Original Message-
 From: [4]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
 <[5]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of David van
 Ooijen
 Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2020 10:25 PM
 To: Lutelist <[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Subject: [LUTE] Rethorique des Dieux, English translation of
 preface?
Dear collected mind.
Could someone direct me to such, if available?
David
--
***
David van Ooijen
[1][7]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
[2][8]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
***
--
 References
1. mailto:[9]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
2. [10]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   3. mailto:d...@dolcesfogato.com
   4. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   7. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   8. https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com/
   9. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  10. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

[Jussi-Pekka Lajunen]

The Secunda pars" is "Seconda Parte" of Battaglia by Orazio Vecchi. See 
page 25:

http://ks.petruccimusiclibrary.org/files/imglnks/usimg/4/41/IMSLP145459-WIMA.26bd-battu.pdf

Also see:
https://i.imgur.com/fhZWglm.png

I guess the second choir's part is not in the same lute book. It would 
not make sense to have it there anyway if the intabulation was meant to 
be played by two lutenists.


Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 9.9.2020 klo 21.18:

Hmmm. I don't see another version of the Battaglia. There is a Part 1
(same file), which has 72 bars, where part 2 has 55. If we add a total
of 30 interpolated bars to part 2, we get 85 bars, so the bar numbers
still wouldn't fit between the two parts, and I have not tried to see
if the harmonies would fit if I tried combining the two parts as a
duet. The source doesn't specify what the "Secunda pars" on f. 62v is a
part 2 of, but it seems to be a battle type piece, so it's logical to
include it as Part 2 of the Bataglia on ff. 65v-66. The Galliarda Graff
vonn Schwartzenburg at the bottom of f.66 seems to be a "filler"
between the two parts, unrelated to them. I guess paper was at a
premium, so there was a tendency to fill in any blanks. To me, then,
it's still a mystery.
--Sarge

On 9/8/2020 11:07, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:

They seem to indicate the duration of rests. In this case there are
no red notes. I wonder if there is a intabulation of the second
choir's part elsewhere in the manuscript.
See:
[1]https://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/145459/sv06
Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 8.9.2020 klo 18.47:

After bars 2, 5, 13, 17, 22, 26, and 31 in this piece, there are
numbers, like #°6, #°13, etc. Can anyone help me figure out what
this
might mean?
--Sarge
--
Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([2]sa...@gerbode.net)
11132 Dell Ave
Forestville, CA 95436-9491
Home phone: 707-820-1759
Website:[3]http://www.gerbode.net
"The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
[4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--
Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([5]sa...@gerbode.net)
11132 Dell Ave
Forestville, CA 95436-9491
Home phone: 707-820-1759
Website: [6]http://www.gerbode.net
"The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."

--

References

1. https://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/145459/sv06
2. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
3. http://www.gerbode.net/
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
5. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
6. http://www.gerbode.net/

[LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

[Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.]

   Hmmm. I don't see another version of the Battaglia.  There is a Part 1
   (same file), which has 72 bars, where part 2 has 55.  If we add a total
   of 30 interpolated bars to part 2, we get 85 bars, so the bar numbers
   still wouldn't fit between the two parts, and I have not tried to see
   if the harmonies would fit if I tried combining the two parts as a
   duet. The source doesn't specify what the "Secunda pars" on f. 62v is a
   part 2 of, but it seems to be a battle type piece, so it's logical to
   include it as Part 2 of the Bataglia on ff. 65v-66. The Galliarda Graff
   vonn Schwartzenburg at the bottom of f.66 seems to be a "filler"
   between the two parts, unrelated to them. I guess paper was at a
   premium, so there was a tendency to fill in any blanks. To me, then,
   it's still a mystery.
   --Sarge

   On 9/8/2020 11:07, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:

 They seem to indicate the duration of rests. In this case there are
 no red notes. I wonder if there is a intabulation of the second
 choir's part elsewhere in the manuscript.
 See:
 [1]https://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/145459/sv06
 Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 8.9.2020 klo 18.47:

 After bars 2, 5, 13, 17, 22, 26, and 31 in this piece, there are
 numbers, like #°6, #°13, etc.  Can anyone help me figure out what
 this
 might mean?
 --Sarge
 --
 Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([2]sa...@gerbode.net)
 11132 Dell Ave
 Forestville, CA 95436-9491
 Home phone:  707-820-1759
 Website:[3]http://www.gerbode.net
 "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."
 --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--
Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([5]sa...@gerbode.net)
11132 Dell Ave
Forestville, CA 95436-9491
Home phone:  707-820-1759
Website:  [6]http://www.gerbode.net
"The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."

   --

References

   1. https://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/145459/sv06
   2. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
   3. http://www.gerbode.net/
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   5. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
   6. http://www.gerbode.net/

[LUTE] Re: Rethorique des Dieux, English translation of preface?

[David Smith]

Acadamia.edu has a copy for free if you want. I sent a copy to David.

David

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
 On Behalf Of David van Ooijen
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2020 10:25 PM
To: Lutelist 
Subject: [LUTE] Rethorique des Dieux, English translation of preface?

   Dear collected mind.

   Could someone direct me to such, if available?

   David

   --

   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
   ***

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/


To get on or off this list see list information at 
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Rethorique des Dieux, English translation of preface?

[David Smith]

Proquest has it for $41 as a PDF. Pub ID 8315922.

David

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
 On Behalf Of Ron Andrico
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 6:29 AM
To: David van Ooijen ; Lutelist 

Subject: [LUTE] Re: Rethorique des Dieux, English translation of preface?

   Dear David:

   Have you seen David J. Buch's dissertation, "Rhétorique des Dieux: A
   Critical Study of Text, Illustration, and Musical Style," Northwestern
   University, 1983?  I have it somewhere if you are unable to locate a
   copy.

   RA
 __

   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of David van Ooijen
   
   Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 5:25 AM
   To: Lutelist 
   Subject: [LUTE] Rethorique des Dieux, English translation of preface?

  Dear collected mind.
  Could someone direct me to such, if available?
  David
  --
  ***
  David van Ooijen
  [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  [2]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
  ***
  --
   References
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  2. [2]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
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[LUTE] Re: Rethorique des Dieux, English translation of preface?

[Ron Andrico]

   Dear David:

   Have you seen David J. Buch's dissertation, "Rhétorique des Dieux: A
   Critical Study of Text, Illustration, and Musical Style," Northwestern
   University, 1983?  I have it somewhere if you are unable to locate a
   copy.

   RA
 __

   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of David van Ooijen
   
   Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 5:25 AM
   To: Lutelist 
   Subject: [LUTE] Rethorique des Dieux, English translation of preface?

  Dear collected mind.
  Could someone direct me to such, if available?
  David
  --
  ***
  David van Ooijen
  [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  [2]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
  ***
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   References
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[LUTE] Re: Rethorique des Dieux, English translation of preface?

[Andreas Schlegel]

Dear David

Not a direct answer, but a link to the tricky story of the Rhétorique:
https://accordsnouveaux.ch/en/la-rhetorique-des-dieux/bremen-lecture-2013

There’s a big gap between the goals of Anne-Achille de Chambré, explained in 
the foreword, and the real book.

Enjoy!

Andreas

> Am 09.09.2020 um 07:25 schrieb David van Ooijen :
> 
>  Dear collected mind.
> 
>  Could someone direct me to such, if available?
> 
>  David
> 
>  --
> 
>  ***
>  David van Ooijen
>  [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
>  [2]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
>  ***
> 
>  --
> 
> References
> 
>  1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
>  2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

[Jussi-Pekka Lajunen]

They seem to indicate the duration of rests. In this case there are no 
red notes. I wonder if there is a intabulation of the second choir's 
part elsewhere in the manuscript.


See:
https://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/145459/sv06

Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 8.9.2020 klo 18.47:

After bars 2, 5, 13, 17, 22, 26, and 31 in this piece, there are
numbers, like #°6, #°13, etc.  Can anyone help me figure out what this
might mean?

--Sarge

--
Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. (sa...@gerbode.net)
11132 Dell Ave
Forestville, CA 95436-9491
Home phone:  707-820-1759
Website:http://www.gerbode.net
"The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."


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[LUTE] Re: Off topic: The infamous metronome markings problem

[Rainer]

Am 08.09.2020 um 17:55 schrieb howard posner:



On Sep 8, 2020, at 3:18 AM, Rainer  wrote:

According to a source I cannot remember the Sonata lasted 55 minutes when 
played by Liszt.


He wrote presque une heure - even slower.
Playing everything as asked for by Beethoven makes 32 minutes.

As far as I know there is not a single recording that lasts 32 minutes only.


I am not really interested in Liszt's tempo and I am convinced that some  
modern players can play faster than Liszt.

I am interested in other people's opinions regarding the metronome markings in 
those days.

Some pieces by Czerny are ridiculously fast in modern interpretation.

Some Pieces by Schumann are totally ruined unless played at half the speed.


On the other hand Chopin#s etudes played at half the speed sound somewhat 
boring.

I simply do not know...

See for example https://youtu.be/7PwoFoZTTHU

Sometimes his arguments are not really convincing nor are his music examples, 
but there is certainly some truth in it.


Rainer

PS

Even Korstick is slower :)

And a certain Alfred Brendel said "Das vorgeschriebene Tempo des ersten Satzes zumal 
ist von keinem Spieler, und sei es der Teufel persönlich, auf irgendeinem Flügel der Welt 
auch nur annähernd zu bewältigen."




Liszt said something of the sort in a letter written 40 years after the 
performance Berlioz reviewed.

For all we know, he hadn’t played it in years and didn’t recall accurately. Or 
he took the fast movements slower as time went on. Or he took the slow 
movement, or the sections that don’t have metronome markings, more slowly.

And for all we know, Berlioz didn’t mean to say specifically that Liszt played 
at Beethoven’s indicated metronome markings, only that he didn’t play around 
with the tempo once he started. And even if he did, maybe Berlioz, sitting in a 
theater with the sheet music but without a metronome, couldn’t tell the 
difference between quarter note = 144 and quarter note =130.

This all pretty much exemplifies the problems of discussing tempo in the 
pre-recording age.

I haven’t found any source saying Lizst was unable to play the sonata at the 
indicated tempi.





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[LUTE] Re: Le Luth Doré

[Rainer]

everything is fine.

My provider treated the order confirmation as spam :(

Rainer

Am 08.09.2020 um 16:00 schrieb Rainer:

Dear lute netters,

has anybody ordered something form Le Luth Doré ?

I have placed an order and already paid via PayPal but not received an order 
confirmation.

Rainer



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[LUTE] Re: Off topic: The infamous metronome markings problem

[howard posner]

> On Sep 8, 2020, at 3:18 AM, Rainer  wrote:
> 
> According to a source I cannot remember the Sonata lasted 55 minutes when 
> played by Liszt.

Liszt said something of the sort in a letter written 40 years after the 
performance Berlioz reviewed.

For all we know, he hadn’t played it in years and didn’t recall accurately. Or 
he took the fast movements slower as time went on. Or he took the slow 
movement, or the sections that don’t have metronome markings, more slowly.

And for all we know, Berlioz didn’t mean to say specifically that Liszt played 
at Beethoven’s indicated metronome markings, only that he didn’t play around 
with the tempo once he started. And even if he did, maybe Berlioz, sitting in a 
theater with the sheet music but without a metronome, couldn’t tell the 
difference between quarter note = 144 and quarter note =130. 

This all pretty much exemplifies the problems of discussing tempo in the 
pre-recording age.

I haven’t found any source saying Lizst was unable to play the sonata at the 
indicated tempi.





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[LUTE] Re: Le Luth Doré

[Jim Dunn]

   Yes, ordered a couple of editions from them earlier in the year.
   Received both a PayPal receipt and an automated receipt from their
   webshop. The order took a few months (mostly due to COVID/La Poste I
   think), but Miguel was responsive and nice over email when I had
   queries about this, so I would send them an email if you are unsure.
   Jim

   On 8 Sep 2020, 16:02 +0200, Rainer , wrote:

 Dear lute netters,
 has anybody ordered something form Le Luth Doré ?
 I have placed an order and already paid via PayPal but not received
 an order confirmation.
 Rainer
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

[LUTE] Re: Off topic: The infamous metronome markings problem

[Tristan von Neumann]

The applause was probably included :)


:)

T*

On 08.09.20 12:18, Rainer wrote:

According to a source I cannot remember the Sonata lasted 55 minutes
when played by Liszt.

This is much slower than some modern performances.

Rainer

Am 08.09.2020 um 01:09 schrieb howard posner:



On Sep 7, 2020, at 1:19 PM, Rainer  wrote:

Even List could not play the Hammerklavier Sonate at Beethoven's
metronome markings - if they are meant as they are today.


Hector Berlioz seems to indicate otherwise in an 1836 review of a
Liszt concert in the La Revue et Gazette musicale de Paris:

"Liszt has explained the work in such a way that if the composer
himself had returned from the grave, joy and pride would have swept
over him. Not a note was left out, not one added (I followed the
performance with the sheet music), not one alteration was made in the
tempo that was not indicated in the text (….) It was the ideal
performance of a work with the reputation of being unperformable. Liszt,
in bringing back a work that was previously not understood has shown
that he is a pianist of the future.”

This quote is from "Early Performances of Beethoven’s ‘Hammerklavier’
Sonata op. 106 in France and England” by Marten Noorduin:

https://www.ripm.org/cnc/?p=592

Here’s a different translation:

"A new Oedipus, Liszt, has solved it, solved it in such a way that
had the composer himself returned from the grave, a paroxysm of joy
and pride would have swept over him. Not a note was left out, not one
added . . . no inflection was effaced, no change of tempo permitted.
Liszt, in thus making comprehensible a work not yet comprehended, has
proved that he is the pianist of the future."

I haven’t seen the original Berlioz article in French (and it
wouldn’t do me much good if I did).

The real problem with Beethoven’s metronome marks is that they were
ignored in the early 20th century, and by time the early music
movement got to Beethoven there was a performance tradition going
back a few generations, and zillions of recordings establishing an
accepted range of tempi. Some of them worked even though they were
ridiculously wrong as a matter of performance practice: the
Allegretto second movement of the Seventh Symphony played as if it
were a slow movement comes to mind.

If I’m not mistaken, the Hammerklavier was the only piano sonata
Beethoven published with metronome marks.  There are far more of them
in the orchestral works. Roger Norrington, in his recordings of the
Beethoven orchestral works, adhered to the metronome markings, and
often offers explanations of them in his written notes.





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[LUTE] Re: Off topic: The infamous metronome markings problem

[Rainer]

According to a source I cannot remember the Sonata lasted 55 minutes when 
played by Liszt.

This is much slower than some modern performances.

Rainer

Am 08.09.2020 um 01:09 schrieb howard posner:



On Sep 7, 2020, at 1:19 PM, Rainer  wrote:

Even List could not play the Hammerklavier Sonate at Beethoven's metronome 
markings - if they are meant as they are today.


Hector Berlioz seems to indicate otherwise in an 1836 review of a Liszt concert 
in the La Revue et Gazette musicale de Paris:

"Liszt has explained the work in such a way that if the composer himself had 
returned from the grave, joy and pride would have swept over him. Not a note was 
left out, not one added (I followed the performance with the sheet music), not one 
alteration was made in the tempo that was not indicated in the text (….) It was the 
ideal performance of a work with the reputation of being unperformable. Liszt,
in bringing back a work that was previously not understood has shown that he is 
a pianist of the future.”

This quote is from "Early Performances of Beethoven’s ‘Hammerklavier’ Sonata 
op. 106 in France and England” by Marten Noorduin:

https://www.ripm.org/cnc/?p=592

Here’s a different translation:

"A new Oedipus, Liszt, has solved it, solved it in such a way that had the composer 
himself returned from the grave, a paroxysm of joy and pride would have swept over him. 
Not a note was left out, not one added . . . no inflection was effaced, no change of 
tempo permitted. Liszt, in thus making comprehensible a work not yet comprehended, has 
proved that he is the pianist of the future."

I haven’t seen the original Berlioz article in French (and it wouldn’t do me 
much good if I did).

The real problem with Beethoven’s metronome marks is that they were ignored in 
the early 20th century, and by time the early music movement got to Beethoven 
there was a performance tradition going back a few generations, and zillions of 
recordings establishing an accepted range of tempi. Some of them worked even 
though they were ridiculously wrong as a matter of performance practice: the 
Allegretto second movement of the Seventh Symphony played as if it were a slow 
movement comes to mind.

If I’m not mistaken, the Hammerklavier was the only piano sonata Beethoven 
published with metronome marks.  There are far more of them in the orchestral 
works. Roger Norrington, in his recordings of the Beethoven orchestral works, 
adhered to the metronome markings, and often offers explanations of them in his 
written notes.





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[LUTE] Re: Off topic: The infamous metronome markings problem

[howard posner]

> On Sep 7, 2020, at 1:19 PM, Rainer  wrote:
> 
> As an illustration see the incredible https://youtu.be/NmI_ALcEGUw

And so I learn that there really is a pianist named Vincenzo Maltempo. 



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[LUTE] Re: Off topic: The infamous metronome markings problem

[howard posner]

> On Sep 7, 2020, at 1:19 PM, Rainer  wrote:
> 
> Even List could not play the Hammerklavier Sonate at Beethoven's metronome 
> markings - if they are meant as they are today.

Hector Berlioz seems to indicate otherwise in an 1836 review of a Liszt concert 
in the La Revue et Gazette musicale de Paris:

"Liszt has explained the work in such a way that if the composer himself had 
returned from the grave, joy and pride would have swept over him. Not a note 
was left out, not one added (I followed the performance with the sheet music), 
not one alteration was made in the tempo that was not indicated in the text 
(….) It was the ideal performance of a work with the reputation of being 
unperformable. Liszt, 
in bringing back a work that was previously not understood has shown that he is 
a pianist of the future.”

This quote is from "Early Performances of Beethoven’s ‘Hammerklavier’ Sonata 
op. 106 in France and England” by Marten Noorduin:

https://www.ripm.org/cnc/?p=592

Here’s a different translation:

"A new Oedipus, Liszt, has solved it, solved it in such a way that had the 
composer himself returned from the grave, a paroxysm of joy and pride would 
have swept over him. Not a note was left out, not one added . . . no inflection 
was effaced, no change of tempo permitted. Liszt, in thus making comprehensible 
a work not yet comprehended, has proved that he is the pianist of the future."

I haven’t seen the original Berlioz article in French (and it wouldn’t do me 
much good if I did).

The real problem with Beethoven’s metronome marks is that they were ignored in 
the early 20th century, and by time the early music movement got to Beethoven 
there was a performance tradition going back a few generations, and zillions of 
recordings establishing an accepted range of tempi. Some of them worked even 
though they were ridiculously wrong as a matter of performance practice: the 
Allegretto second movement of the Seventh Symphony played as if it were a slow 
movement comes to mind.

If I’m not mistaken, the Hammerklavier was the only piano sonata Beethoven 
published with metronome marks.  There are far more of them in the orchestral 
works. Roger Norrington, in his recordings of the Beethoven orchestral works, 
adhered to the metronome markings, and often offers explanations of them in his 
written notes.





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[LUTE] Re: My web site (long and probably tedious)

[Martyn Hodgson]

   Thanks to those who pointed out the errors in my manner of inserting
   interpolations - in fact, I did try to do something like this by
   putting in spaces and inserting a dash before my comments, but much was
   lost by the system not copying how I separated text (eg see the extract
   below).  And I don't understand why this is either..
   regards
   Martyn

   On Saturday, 5 September 2020, 17:52:20 BST, Ralf Mattes
wrote:
   On 05.09.20 18:29, G. C. wrote:
   >  PS What might also be good, would be the ability to send parts
   of
   >  messages in bold/italic etc which the current system  seems
   to
   >  put into
   >  plain text. For example, my interpolations here would be
   clearer
   >  if put
   >  in bold.
   Why ignore the de-facto standard that exist for quotes in mails since
   the beginning of time (long before "the internet" became a thing).
   Quotes are prefixed with '>' (or, if you insist, with '|'). That way
   you
   can even quote quotes etc.
   Any decent mail client will do this automatically when you chose to
   'reply' to an email.
   >You could yourself have made them clearer by putting marks like
   plus
   >signs or asterisks or whatever at beginning and end. I know that
   >separating text doesn't seem to work sometimes,  and don't
   understand
   >why that  is.
   >G.
   Cheers, Ralf Mattes
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Francisque

[Mayes, Joseph]

I should point out - if someone hasn't already - that the Francisque is one of 
Luth d'ore's editions. Really clearly printed and well thought-out edition. I 
recommend it highly.

Joseph mayes

From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
 on behalf of Christopher Stetson 

Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2020 10:42 AM
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [LUTE] Re: Francisque

   Hello Tristan and Jean-Marie.
   I've had a facsimile copy of the Tresor since one bought those things
   with a check in an envelope, and agree about the quality of the music,
but haven't had it out in years,  so thanks for the  reminder.   I
   have played through Susanne, but tend more toward the dances.
   Best, and keep playing,
   Chris.

   On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 1:47 PM Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

 I agree, some of the pieces require virtuosity.
 But I found that the fingering is quite logical, and most pieces
 still
 sound good when played slowly.
 It's not a ride like Eysert, or Terzi Intabulations...
 When I wrote 7c I meant: if you have less than required number of
 diapasons, 7c is still good to go.
 On 04.09.20 18:56, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote:
 > Hi Tristan and all,
 >
 > "Le Trésor d'Orphée" is a very popular print with players
 interested
 > in the music of the early 17th century, different from Vallet,
 Besard
 > or Ballard.
 > It is one of my frequent sources to perform from, but I would
 > certainly not qualify its difficulty "moderate" !!! For instance
 the
 > opening piece "Susanne un jour" requires a solid technique and so
 do
 > some of the Galliards or Fantasies... True, some of the dances
 > (Branles) are quite nice rewarding to play but not all of the
 music is
 > simple and easy ! And by the way, an 8 course is much more
 > "comfortable" to play it through ;-) !
 >
 > All the best,
 > Jean-Marie
 >
 > Le 04/09/2020 à 18:38, Tristan von Neumann a écrit  :
 >> It's playable with a 7c lute comfortably, and the difficulty is
 moderate
 >> if you consider the great effect, so don't be afraid.
 >
 >
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: My web site (long and probably tedious)

[David Smith]

This is where I have some disagreement. Having a purely personal effort is 
great but fragile. If there was an international Lute body then it would be 
great. There isn't.

So, who wants to take on the personal responsibility that Wayne has for all 
these years.

My experience from running a number of these is that the personal efforts tend 
to die when the person doing it looses interest. But, maybe this one will be 
different.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see where this goes.

David

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
 On Behalf Of Alain Veylit
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2020 10:02 AM
Cc: 'lutelist Net' 
Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site (long and probably tedious)

I totally agree with the below:

On 9/5/20 9:16 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
>   6) Should the list/forum be maintained as a separate effort, or should
> it be rolled into the LSA, etc.?
>  - Being a  truly international list has been a great
> feature and strength of Wayne's system and ought to continue as such
> without necessarily being held by any one national society.body
> (e.g. sponsorship, personal vs. organizational liability, domain
> ownership/transferability,  futureproofing, and user 
> rules/guidelines)



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[LUTE] Re: My web site (long and probably tedious)

[Alain Veylit]

I totally agree with the below:

On 9/5/20 9:16 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:

  6) Should the list/forum be maintained as a separate effort, or should
it be rolled into the LSA, etc.?
 - Being a  truly international list has been a great
feature and strength of Wayne's system and ought to continue as such
without necessarily being held by any one national society.body
(e.g. sponsorship, personal vs. organizational liability, domain
ownership/transferability,  futureproofing, and user rules/guidelines)




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[LUTE] Re: My web site (long and probably tedious)

[Ralf Mattes]

On 05.09.20 18:29, G. C. wrote:

  PS What might also be good, would be the ability to send parts of
 messages in bold/italic etc which the current system   seems to
  put into
 plain text. For example, my interpolations here would be clearer
  if put
 in bold.


Why ignore the de-facto standard that exist for quotes in mails since 
the beginning of time (long before "the internet" became a thing).

Quotes are prefixed with '>' (or, if you insist, with '|'). That way you
can even quote quotes etc.

Any decent mail client will do this automatically when you chose to 
'reply' to an email.



You could yourself have made them clearer by putting marks like plus
signs or asterisks or whatever at beginning and end. I know that
separating text doesn't seem to work sometimes,  and don't understand
why that  is.
G.


Cheers, Ralf Mattes



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[LUTE] Re: My web site (long and probably tedious)

[G. C.]

 PS What might also be good, would be the ability to send parts of
messages in bold/italic etc which the current system   seems to
 put into
plain text. For example, my interpolations here would be clearer
 if put
in bold.

   You could yourself have made them clearer by putting marks like plus
   signs or asterisks or whatever at beginning and end. I know that
   separating text doesn't seem to work sometimes,  and don't understand
   why that  is.
   G.

   --


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[LUTE] Re: My web site (long and probably tedious)

[Martyn Hodgson]

   Dear Ron,
   See my interpolations below. In short, please duplicate as closely as
   reasonably possible the format and mechanisms etc of Wayne's list
   regards
   Martyn

   On Saturday, 5 September 2020, 16:33:02 BST, Ron Banks
wrote:
   I don't really know who (if anyone) is working on a replacement for the
   lute list(s) and a classified site, or how far along they've gotten in
   the process.  Also, Wayne's early comments in this thread about not
   replicating the old list and classified site are also very appropriate,
   since his sites were based on proprietary code.  It might also be a
   very good time to verify what the community needs really are, as they
   may have changed since 1998.  While I love the portability of this list
   (and email communications in general), the workload of managing the
   infrastructure, security (User Registration and Maintenance,
   Compliance, SPAM/Phishing/DDoS/Site Takeover protection, etc.), and
   site continuity can also be pretty burdensome, especially if it's an
   individual effort.
   I haven't been very active on the list since the 1990's, so I can't
   really speak to the current community requirements.  Other members of
   the community would certainly be more qualified to answer that, than I
   would.
   Some questions that probably need to be addressed (and may have already
   been answered) are:
   1) Is an email-only messaging system preferred -
   YES
   (with a separate web site classified page  - if
   really thought necessary)?
   (e.g. mailman (or similar), with an additional classified/marketplace
   website)
   2) Is the community open to a web-based forum   - Personally
   speaking. an email system like Wayne's seems ideal
- with email alerting and an integrated classified section?  (e.g.
   phpbb or similar forum(s) with email notification and a classified
   section)
   3) How many members are currently on the list, and what is their
   geographic distribution/nationality (e.g. cost, performance, and
   compliance rightsizing) - Is this really relevant? -
   people should be able to join and leave as wished
   4) How many members could (or would) serve as moderators?   -   I
   would volunteer but am afraid I don't have the necessary technical web
   expertise
   5) How many lists/forums would be needed?   -
   Perhaps just one
   6) Should the list/forum be maintained as a separate effort, or should
   it be rolled into the LSA, etc.?
- Being a  truly international list has been a great
   feature and strength of Wayne's system and ought to continue as such
   without necessarily being held by any one national society.body
   (e.g. sponsorship, personal vs. organizational liability, domain
   ownership/transferability,  futureproofing, and user rules/guidelines)
   PS What might also be good, would be the ability to send parts of
   messages in bold/italic etc which the current system  seems to put into
   plain text. For example, my interpolations here would be clearer if put
   in bold.
   On 9/5/20, 2:22 AM, "Jurgen Frenz"
   <[1]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:
   I'm a bit confused about the status of this discussion - are we
   still looking for a hosting service? I am subscribed to some other
   music + sound related lists that seem to be of an acceptable format
   [2]https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/create
   It takes an admin to create the list and manage members etc.
   Jurgen
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
   2. https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/create
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: My web site (long and probably tedious)

[Ron Banks]

Jurgen,

I don't really know who (if anyone) is working on a replacement for the lute 
list(s) and a classified site, or how far along they've gotten in the process.  
Also, Wayne's early comments in this thread about not replicating the old list 
and classified site are also very appropriate, since his sites were based on 
proprietary code.   It might also be a very good time to verify what the 
community needs really are, as they may have changed since 1998.  While I love 
the portability of this list (and email communications in general), the 
workload of managing the infrastructure, security (User Registration and 
Maintenance, Compliance, SPAM/Phishing/DDoS/Site Takeover protection, etc.), 
and site continuity can also be pretty burdensome, especially if it's an 
individual effort.

I haven't been very active on the list since the 1990's, so I can't really 
speak to the current community requirements.  Other members of the community 
would certainly be more qualified to answer that, than I would.

Some questions that probably need to be addressed (and may have already been 
answered) are:

1) Is an email-only messaging system preferred (with a separate web site 
classified page)?  (e.g. mailman (or similar), with an additional 
classified/marketplace website)
2) Is the community open to a web-based forum with email alerting and an 
integrated classified section?  (e.g. phpbb or similar forum(s) with email 
notification and a classified section)
3) How many members are currently on the list, and what is their geographic 
distribution/nationality (e.g. cost, performance, and compliance rightsizing)
4) How many members could (or would) serve as moderators?
5) How many lists/forums would be needed?
6) Should the list/forum be maintained as a separate effort, or should it be 
rolled into the LSA, etc.?  (e.g. sponsorship, personal vs. organizational 
liability, domain ownership/transferability,  futureproofing, and user 
rules/guidelines)

Thanks,

Ron Banks



On 9/5/20, 2:22 AM, "Jurgen Frenz"  wrote:

I'm a bit confused about the status of this discussion - are we still 
looking for a hosting service? I am subscribed to some other music + sound 
related lists that seem to be of an acceptable format

https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/create

It takes an admin to create the list and manage members etc.

Jurgen







To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Francisque

[Christopher Stetson]

   Hello Tristan and Jean-Marie.
   I've had a facsimile copy of the Tresor since one bought those things
   with a check in an envelope, and agree about the quality of the music,
but haven't had it out in years,  so thanks for the  reminder.   I
   have played through Susanne, but tend more toward the dances.
   Best, and keep playing,
   Chris.

   On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 1:47 PM Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

 I agree, some of the pieces require virtuosity.
 But I found that the fingering is quite logical, and most pieces
 still
 sound good when played slowly.
 It's not a ride like Eysert, or Terzi Intabulations...
 When I wrote 7c I meant: if you have less than required number of
 diapasons, 7c is still good to go.
 On 04.09.20 18:56, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote:
 > Hi Tristan and all,
 >
 > "Le Trésor d'Orphée" is a very popular print with players
 interested
 > in the music of the early 17th century, different from Vallet,
 Besard
 > or Ballard.
 > It is one of my frequent sources to perform from, but I would
 > certainly not qualify its difficulty "moderate" !!! For instance
 the
 > opening piece "Susanne un jour" requires a solid technique and so
 do
 > some of the Galliards or Fantasies... True, some of the dances
 > (Branles) are quite nice rewarding to play but not all of the
 music is
 > simple and easy ! And by the way, an 8 course is much more
 > "comfortable" to play it through ;-) !
 >
 > All the best,
 > Jean-Marie
 >
 > Le 04/09/2020 à 18:38, Tristan von Neumann a écrit  :
 >> It's playable with a 7c lute comfortably, and the difficulty is
 moderate
 >> if you consider the great effect, so don't be afraid.
 >
 >
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[Jurgen Frenz]

You're right Ron,

I didn't think the issue all the way to the end, I agree with your thoughts. 
Let's think of something else that still doesn't cost any money.

Best,
Jurgen


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, September 4, 2020 6:49 PM,  wrote:

> Jurgen,
>
> While I think Google Groups has good mechanisms for sharing ideas and content 
> (without algorithm-based interference like FB has)...and aside from Google's 
> business model of harvesting data for search purposes, etc., the bigger 
> practical issue would be setting up the group to comply with the GDPR and 
> CCPA's data protection and "right to be forgotten" requirements. Maintaining 
> consent, knowing where the data resides, and when it has been exfiltrated 
> become important under both, as email addresses and more data point become 
> classed as personal information under both. It can certainly be done 
> correctly, but needs considerable forethought, especially when a group has an 
> international membership base.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Banks
>
> -Original Message-
> From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
> lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu On Behalf Of Jurgen Frenz
> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 10:03 AM
> To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
> Cc: lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site
>
> As much as I share the privacy concerns with google I wonder if that is of a 
> major concern for our discussion about lute music. Fronimo uses google groups 
> and it never occurred to me that google hijacked posts for advertisement 
> purposes. Follow and log users, yes, but then again...
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Friday, September 4, 2020 2:13 PM, Martyn Hodgson 
> hodgsonmar...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[Jurgen Frenz]

As much as I share the privacy concerns with google I wonder if that is of a 
major concern for our discussion about lute music. Fronimo uses google groups 
and it never occurred to me that google hijacked posts for advertisement 
purposes. Follow and log users, yes, but then again...




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, September 4, 2020 2:13 PM, Martyn Hodgson 
 wrote:

> Well said Ron,
> The lutelist format and its arrangement is clearly much more suited
> for the proper and serious, but still enjoyable, exchange of views and
> for sharing information. It may be seen by some as 'old fashioned'
> (and
> I'm not sure what this really means in this context anyway) but is this
> really a valid judgement for what it aims to do. The use of email etc
> allows
> slightly more considered communications than the need for adulation.
> It would be a backward step to employ a format which focuses primarily
> on social media, advertising and the number of hits, 'likes' and such
> like...
> MH
>
> On Friday, 4 September 2020, 13:02:17 BST, Ron Andrico
> praelu...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>  I'm guessing that it was an oversight to copy the entire lutelist
>
>
> with
> this message thread, which shares some awkward ideas (and language).
> Nevertheless, the personalities involved need to understand that
> there
> abides an intelligent segment of participants on the lutelist who
> will
> never contribute on the Facebk platform. That particular platform
> is
> the opposite of how Wayne laid out and maintained the lutelist. The
> format (which I call MyFace because participants seem to care very
> little about what others post) is sufficient for trivia and vanity
> postings, but for musicians who want to promote themselves, Facebkactually 
> suppresses distribution of any post that emits even a whiff
> of
> commercial potential. The platform is focused on two primary
> objectives: 1) encouraging posters to reveal more information than
> they
> should, 2) monetizing said information in every and any way possible.
> Not the same as the lutelist, which, thanks to Wayne, has steadfastly
> embodied the outmoded egalitarian aspects of the internet. It is now
> a
> brave new world populated by the greedy and deceptive masquerading as
> old school free-culture types. Good luck with following up on your
> ideas, but don't be surprised if a large number of people choose to
> not
> participate in your scheme.
> RA
> From: [1]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
> <[2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of LSA Editor
>
>  <[3]lsaq.edi...@gmail.com>
>
>  Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:56 PM
>  To: LSA President <[4]lutesocietyamericapresid...@gmail.com>;
>
>
> lutelist Net
> <[5]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>
>  Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site
>  Hi Cathy,
>  I am including Sean about your questions on the lutelist versus
>
>
> FB.
> Sean looks both them and Nig even more than I do, so can give you
> a
> better answer. Here are my sanswers:
> The lutelist is old-fashioned and it's biggest virtue is that we
> have
> access to people like Art Ness and Martin Shepherd to answer
> questions. It's vibe is a bit more toward the serious lute
> player,
> but
> the people are mostly patient with newbies with questions. It is
> not
> the place for promoting you CD or next concert.
> FB IS the place to promote anything and everything and I think
> Larry
> spends time getting rid of the messages that off topic. FB has a
> younger vibe - or maybe it had a younger vibe when it started. I
> hear
> it has been taken over by groups like the LSA and some musicians
> use
> it
> instead of a web page. FB can have pictures and mostly postings
> are
> very short.
> I don't think the lutelist needs much curating, at least not
> right
> now.
> We've had a couple of differences of opinion in the past, but
> nothing
> recently. Another big benefit for me is that people access the
> lutelist using their own emails and I can keep the email address
> for
> future contacts. The people there are a big source of additions
> to
> my
> lists of prospective LSA members. I can be the moderator for the
> lutelist until it's up and running and we find a good person to
> take
> the job over. We don't have the problem with the LL of every tom,
> dick
> and harry wanting to join it - it's more for the cognisenti.
> David
> Smith might be a good moderator - he's been on the LL for years.
> When I had an orpharion for sale on Wayne's list (and it wasn't
> selling) Wayne checked in wi

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[Leonard Williams]

   Ron--
   Amen! Thank you!
   Leonard Williams
   -Original Message-
   From: Ron Andrico 
   To: LSA Editor ; LSA President
   ; lutelist Net
   
   Sent: Fri, Sep 4, 2020 7:59 am
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site
 I'm guessing that it was an oversight to copy the entire lutelist
   with
 this message thread, which shares some awkward ideas (and language).
 Nevertheless, the personalities involved need to understand that
   there
 abides an intelligent segment of participants on the lutelist who
   will
 never contribute on the Faceb**k platform.  That particular platform
   is
 the opposite of how Wayne laid out and maintained the lutelist.  The
 format (which I call MyFace because participants seem to care very
 little about what others post) is sufficient for trivia and vanity
 postings, but for musicians who want to promote themselves, Faceb**k
 actually suppresses distribution of any post that emits even a whiff
   of
 commercial potential.  The platform is focused on two primary
 objectives: 1) encouraging posters to reveal more information than
   they
 should, 2) monetizing said information in every and any way possible.
 Not the same as the lutelist, which, thanks to Wayne, has steadfastly
 embodied the outmoded egalitarian aspects of the internet.  It is now
   a
 brave new world populated by the greedy and deceptive masquerading as
 old school free-culture types.  Good luck with following up on your
 ideas, but don't be surprised if a large number of people choose to
   not
 participate in your scheme.
 RA
 From: [1]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
 <[2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of LSA Editor
 <[3]lsaq.edi...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:56 PM
 To: LSA President <[4]lutesocietyamericapresid...@gmail.com>;
   lutelist Net
 <[5]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site
 Hi Cathy,
 I am including Sean about your questions on the lutelist versus
   FB.
 Sean looks both them and Nig even more than I do, so can give you
   a
 better answer.  Here are my sanswers:
 The lutelist is old-fashioned and it's biggest virtue is that we
 have
 access to people like Art Ness and Martin Shepherd to answer
 questions.  It's vibe is a bit more toward the serious lute
   player,
 but
 the people are mostly patient with newbies with questions. It is
   not
 the place for promoting you CD or next concert.
 FB IS the place to promote anything and everything and I think
   Larry
 spends time getting rid of the messages that off topic.  FB has a
 younger vibe - or maybe it had a younger vibe when it started. I
 hear
 it has been taken over by groups like the LSA and some musicians
   use
 it
 instead of a web page.  FB can have pictures and mostly postings
   are
 very short.
 I don't think the lutelist needs much curating, at least not
   right
 now.
 We've had a couple of differences of opinion in the past, but
 nothing
 recently.  Another big benefit for me is that people access the
 lutelist using their own emails and I can keep the email address
   for
 future contacts. The people there are a big source of additions
   to
 my
 lists of prospective LSA members. I can be the moderator for the
 lutelist until it's up and running and we find a good person to
   take
 the job over. We don't have the problem with the LL of every tom,
 dick
 and harry wanting to join it - it's more for the cognisenti.
   David
 Smith might be a good moderator - he's been on the LL for years.
 When I had an orpharion for sale on Wayne's list (and it wasn't
 selling) Wayne checked in with me to see if it was still for sale
 after
 about a year.  This seems to me to be a small job that only needs
 looking at every few months.  I think the other part of  job is
 posting
 new instruments for sale.
 We would also need to make sure people know where to find both
   the
 LL
 and LFS lists - a few CC blitzes?, since people are used to going
   to
 his Dartmouth site and it will be linked on places like the ELS
 site.
 Nancy
 I agree. Now that we are back on solid footing â Whew! We should
   not
 piss off people like Wayne after all he has done. We should
   probably
 not piss of anyone! â we can proceed.
 What happens on the lute list that doesn't happen on Facebook or
   on
 Danny Shoskes' site? Just curious.
 What kind of curating does ithe lute list need to work well and
   be a
 benefit? The

[LUTE] Re: Francisque

[Tristan von Neumann]

I agree, some of the pieces require virtuosity.

But I found that the fingering is quite logical, and most pieces still
sound good when played slowly.

It's not a ride like Eysert, or Terzi Intabulations...

When I wrote 7c I meant: if you have less than required number of
diapasons, 7c is still good to go.



On 04.09.20 18:56, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote:

Hi Tristan and all,

"Le Trésor d'Orphée" is a very popular print with players interested
in the music of the early 17th century, different from Vallet, Besard
or Ballard.
It is one of my frequent sources to perform from, but I would
certainly not qualify its difficulty "moderate" !!! For instance the
opening piece "Susanne un jour" requires a solid technique and so do
some of the Galliards or Fantasies... True, some of the dances
(Branles) are quite nice rewarding to play but not all of the music is
simple and easy ! And by the way, an 8 course is much more
"comfortable" to play it through ;-) !

All the best,
Jean-Marie

Le 04/09/2020 à 18:38, Tristan von Neumann a écrit :

It's playable with a 7c lute comfortably, and the difficulty is moderate
if you consider the great effect, so don't be afraid.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Francisque

[Jean-Marie Poirier]

Hi Tristan and all,

"Le Trésor d'Orphée" is a very popular print with players interested in 
the music of the early 17th century, different from Vallet, Besard or 
Ballard.
It is one of my frequent sources to perform from, but I would certainly 
not qualify its difficulty "moderate" !!! For instance the opening piece 
"Susanne un jour" requires a solid technique and so do some of the 
Galliards or Fantasies... True, some of the dances (Branles) are quite 
nice rewarding to play but not all of the music is simple and easy ! And 
by the way, an 8 course is much more "comfortable" to play it through ;-) !


All the best,
Jean-Marie

Le 04/09/2020 à 18:38, Tristan von Neumann a écrit :

It's playable with a 7c lute comfortably, and the difficulty is moderate
if you consider the great effect, so don't be afraid.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[ron.banks]

Jurgen,

While I think Google Groups has good mechanisms for sharing ideas and content 
(without algorithm-based interference like FB has)...and aside from Google's 
business model of harvesting data for search purposes, etc., the bigger 
practical issue would be setting up the group to comply with the GDPR and 
CCPA's data protection and "right to be forgotten" requirements.  Maintaining 
consent, knowing where the data resides, and when it has been exfiltrated 
become important under both, as email addresses and more data point become 
classed as personal information under both.  It can certainly be done 
correctly, but needs considerable forethought, especially when a group has an 
international membership base.

Thanks,

Ron Banks

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
 On Behalf Of Jurgen Frenz
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 10:03 AM
To: Martyn Hodgson 
Cc: lutelist Net 
Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site

As much as I share the privacy concerns with google I wonder if that is of a 
major concern for our discussion about lute music. Fronimo uses google groups 
and it never occurred to me that google hijacked posts for advertisement 
purposes. Follow and log users, yes, but then again...




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, September 4, 2020 2:13 PM, Martyn Hodgson 
 wrote:








To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[David Smith]

   Please do not take the suggestion about using Facebook to replace the
   lite lis seriously. It was just a question that was asked and no
   decision has been made to use it. I agree with all the comments about
   Facebook being inappropriate as a replacement. I run a number of
   non-profit sites that use Facebook, google groups, plus old fashioned
   websites. Each has a purpose and radically different styles of
   communication. Facebook is not a good mechanism for discussion,
   archive, and search. It is a capricious platform that is good for
   shouting out announcements and ideas - think of a box on a street
   corner with someone standing on it and shouting.
   Google groups might be a option but it does have some limits on number
   of members. Without knowing how many members are on this list it is
   difficult to assess the size requirement.
   Please bear with those working on a solution.
   David
   Get [1]Outlook for iOS
 __

   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of
   ron.ba...@rwbanks.com 
   Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 7:02:17 AM
   To: 'lutelist Net' 
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site

   I agree wholeheartedly with Ralf, David, Francesco, Martyn, and Ron
   Andrico comments.  I'd  also like to thank Wayne for his many years of
   service, and  wish him a happy retirement.
   In addition to any privacy, security, and 3rd party monetization
   concerns, it's also important to remember that Facebook determines
   which messages/content are presented to each user.  As such,  not all
   members may have all messages presented to them.
   Even though mail lists are old technology, they can be a much more
   equal platform for members.
   Thanks,
   Ron Banks
   -Original Message-
   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
On Behalf Of Ralf Mattes
   Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 8:31 AM
   To: ftribi...@gmail.com; 'lutelist Net' 
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site
   On 04.09.20 15:19, ftribi...@gmail.com wrote:
   > First all many thanks to Wayne for his great work in these decades!
   +1 Same from here!
   > I totally agree about Facebook. It has nothing to do with the lute
   > list as we know it.
   +1000!
   > What about just a simple Google discussion group? It is very easy to
   > maintain, it is free and can keep all the past messages. Actually, it
   > can be configured as a moderated (if needed) mailing list, but in
   > addition it offers a web interface to browse conversations and old
   messages.
   Please, no. The difference between Facebook an Google in terms of data
   privacy are unfortunately pretty small (long gone are the times where
   Google where the good ones, sigh).
 Cheers,
  RalfD
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://aka.ms/o0ukef
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[ron.banks]

I agree wholeheartedly with Ralf, David, Francesco, Martyn, and Ron Andrico 
comments.  I'd  also like to thank Wayne for his many years of service, and  
wish him a happy retirement.

In addition to any privacy, security, and 3rd party monetization concerns, it's 
also important to remember that Facebook determines which messages/content are 
presented to each user.  As such,  not all members may have all messages 
presented to them.   

Even though mail lists are old technology, they can be a much more equal 
platform for members.

Thanks,

Ron Banks

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
 On Behalf Of Ralf Mattes
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 8:31 AM
To: ftribi...@gmail.com; 'lutelist Net' 
Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site

On 04.09.20 15:19, ftribi...@gmail.com wrote:
> First all many thanks to Wayne for his great work in these decades!

+1 Same from here!


> I totally agree about Facebook. It has nothing to do with the lute 
> list as we know it.

+1000!

> What about just a simple Google discussion group? It is very easy to 
> maintain, it is free and can keep all the past messages. Actually, it 
> can be configured as a moderated (if needed) mailing list, but in 
> addition it offers a web interface to browse conversations and old messages.

Please, no. The difference between Facebook an Google in terms of data privacy 
are unfortunately pretty small (long gone are the times where Google where the 
good ones, sigh).

  Cheers,

   RalfD



To get on or off this list see list information at 
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[David Van Edwards]

I second Francesco's remarks entirely. Especially 
thanking Wayne and hoping we can continue with a 
Google list rather than Facebook.


This list is much more serious, and importantly 
less intrusive, platform for debate.


Best wishes to Wayne for the future,

David

At 15:19 +0200 4/9/20,  wrote:

First all many thanks to Wayne for his great work in these decades!

I totally agree about Facebook. It has nothing to do with the lute list as
we know it.

What about just a simple Google discussion group? It is very easy to
maintain, it is free and can keep all the past messages. Actually, it can be
configured as a moderated (if needed) mailing list, but in addition it
offers a web interface to browse conversations and old messages.

Francesco


 -Messaggio originale-
 Da: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu  Per conto di Martyn Hodgson
 Inviato: venerdì 4 settembre 2020 14:14
 A: LSA Editor ; LSA President
 ; lutelist Net
 ; Ron Andrico 
 Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: My web site

Well said Ron,
The lutelist format and its arrangement is clearly much more suited

 >for the proper and serious, but still enjoyable, exchange of views and

for sharing information.  It may be seen by some as 'old fashioned'
(and
I'm not sure what this really means in this context anyway) but is this
really a valid judgement for what it aims to do. The use of email etc
allows
slightly more considered communications than the need for adulation.
It would be a backward step to employ a format which focuses primarily
on social media, advertising and the number of hits, 'likes'  and such
like...
MH

On Friday, 4 September 2020, 13:02:17 BST, Ron Andrico
 wrote:
  I'm guessing that it was an oversight to copy the entire lutelist
with
  this message thread, which shares some awkward ideas (and language).
  Nevertheless, the personalities involved need to understand that
there
  abides an intelligent segment of participants on the lutelist who
will
  never contribute on the Faceb**k platform.  That particular platform
is
  the opposite of how Wayne laid out and maintained the lutelist.  The
  format (which I call MyFace because participants seem to care very
  little about what others post) is sufficient for trivia and vanity
  postings, but for musicians who want to promote themselves, Faceb**k
  actually suppresses distribution of any post that emits even a whiff
of
  commercial potential.  The platform is focused on two primary
  objectives: 1) encouraging posters to reveal more information than
they
  should, 2) monetizing said information in every and any way possible.
  Not the same as the lutelist, which, thanks to Wayne, has steadfastly
  embodied the outmoded egalitarian aspects of the internet.  It is now
a
  brave new world populated by the greedy and deceptive masquerading as
  old school free-culture types.  Good luck with following up on your
  ideas, but don't be surprised if a large number of people choose to
not
  participate in your scheme.
  RA
  From: [1]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
  <[2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of LSA Editor
  <[3]lsaq.edi...@gmail.com>
  Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:56 PM
  To: LSA President <[4]lutesocietyamericapresid...@gmail.com>;
lutelist Net
  <[5]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site
  Hi Cathy,
  I am including Sean about your questions on the lutelist versus
FB.
  Sean looks both them and Nig even more than I do, so can give you

 >a

  better answer.  Here are my sanswers:
  The lutelist is old-fashioned and it's biggest virtue is that we
  have
  access to people like Art Ness and Martin Shepherd to answer
  questions.  It's vibe is a bit more toward the serious lute
player,
  but
  the people are mostly patient with newbies with questions. It is
not
  the place for promoting you CD or next concert.
  FB IS the place to promote anything and everything and I think
Larry
  spends time getting rid of the messages that off topic.  FB has a
  younger vibe - or maybe it had a younger vibe when it started. I
  hear
  it has been taken over by groups like the LSA and some musicians
use
  it
  instead of a web page.  FB can have pictures and mostly postings
are
  very short.
  I don't think the lutelist needs much curating, at least not
right
  now.
  We've had a couple of differences of opinion in the past, but
  nothing
  recently.  Another big benefit for me is that people access the
  lutelist using their own emails and I can keep

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[Ralf Mattes]

On 04.09.20 15:19, ftribi...@gmail.com wrote:

First all many thanks to Wayne for his great work in these decades!


+1 Same from here!



I totally agree about Facebook. It has nothing to do with the lute list as
we know it.


+1000!


What about just a simple Google discussion group? It is very easy to
maintain, it is free and can keep all the past messages. Actually, it can be
configured as a moderated (if needed) mailing list, but in addition it
offers a web interface to browse conversations and old messages.


Please, no. The difference between Facebook an Google in terms of data 
privacy are unfortunately pretty small (long gone are the times where 
Google where the good ones, sigh).


 Cheers,

  RalfD



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[ftribioli]

First all many thanks to Wayne for his great work in these decades!

I totally agree about Facebook. It has nothing to do with the lute list as
we know it. 

What about just a simple Google discussion group? It is very easy to
maintain, it is free and can keep all the past messages. Actually, it can be
configured as a moderated (if needed) mailing list, but in addition it
offers a web interface to browse conversations and old messages.

Francesco

> -Messaggio originale-
> Da: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu  mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> Per conto di Martyn Hodgson
> Inviato: venerdì 4 settembre 2020 14:14
> A: LSA Editor ; LSA President
> ; lutelist Net
> ; Ron Andrico 
> Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: My web site
> 
>Well said Ron,
>The lutelist format and its arrangement is clearly much more suited
>for the proper and serious, but still enjoyable, exchange of views and
>for sharing information.  It may be seen by some as 'old fashioned'
>(and
>I'm not sure what this really means in this context anyway) but is this
>really a valid judgement for what it aims to do. The use of email etc
>allows
>slightly more considered communications than the need for adulation.
>It would be a backward step to employ a format which focuses primarily
>on social media, advertising and the number of hits, 'likes'  and such
>like...
>MH
> 
>On Friday, 4 September 2020, 13:02:17 BST, Ron Andrico
> wrote:
>  I'm guessing that it was an oversight to copy the entire lutelist
>with
>  this message thread, which shares some awkward ideas (and language).
>  Nevertheless, the personalities involved need to understand that
>there
>  abides an intelligent segment of participants on the lutelist who
>will
>  never contribute on the Faceb**k platform.  That particular platform
>is
>  the opposite of how Wayne laid out and maintained the lutelist.  The
>  format (which I call MyFace because participants seem to care very
>  little about what others post) is sufficient for trivia and vanity
>  postings, but for musicians who want to promote themselves, Faceb**k
>  actually suppresses distribution of any post that emits even a whiff
>of
>  commercial potential.  The platform is focused on two primary
>  objectives: 1) encouraging posters to reveal more information than
>they
>  should, 2) monetizing said information in every and any way possible.
>  Not the same as the lutelist, which, thanks to Wayne, has steadfastly
>  embodied the outmoded egalitarian aspects of the internet.  It is now
>a
>  brave new world populated by the greedy and deceptive masquerading as
>  old school free-culture types.  Good luck with following up on your
>  ideas, but don't be surprised if a large number of people choose to
>not
>  participate in your scheme.
>  RA
>  From: [1]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
>  <[2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of LSA Editor
>  <[3]lsaq.edi...@gmail.com>
>  Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:56 PM
>  To: LSA President <[4]lutesocietyamericapresid...@gmail.com>;
>lutelist Net
>  <[5]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>  Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site
>  Hi Cathy,
>  I am including Sean about your questions on the lutelist versus
>FB.
>  Sean looks both them and Nig even more than I do, so can give you
>a
>  better answer.  Here are my sanswers:
>  The lutelist is old-fashioned and it's biggest virtue is that we
>  have
>  access to people like Art Ness and Martin Shepherd to answer
>  questions.  It's vibe is a bit more toward the serious lute
>player,
>  but
>  the people are mostly patient with newbies with questions. It is
>not
>  the place for promoting you CD or next concert.
>  FB IS the place to promote anything and everything and I think
>Larry
>  spends time getting rid of the messages that off topic.  FB has a
>  younger vibe - or maybe it had a younger vibe when it started. I
>  hear
>  it has been taken over by groups like the LSA and some musicians
>use
>  it
>  instead of a web page.  FB can have pictures and mostly postings
>are
>  very short.
>  I don't think the lutelist needs much curating, at least not
>right
>  now.
>  We've had a couple of differences of opinion in the past, but
>  nothing
>  recently.  Another big benefit for me is tha

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[Martyn Hodgson]

   Well said Ron,
   The lutelist format and its arrangement is clearly much more suited
   for the proper and serious, but still enjoyable, exchange of views and
   for sharing information.  It may be seen by some as 'old fashioned'
   (and
   I'm not sure what this really means in this context anyway) but is this
   really a valid judgement for what it aims to do. The use of email etc
   allows
   slightly more considered communications than the need for adulation.
   It would be a backward step to employ a format which focuses primarily
   on social media, advertising and the number of hits, 'likes'  and such
   like...
   MH

   On Friday, 4 September 2020, 13:02:17 BST, Ron Andrico
wrote:
 I'm guessing that it was an oversight to copy the entire lutelist
   with
 this message thread, which shares some awkward ideas (and language).
 Nevertheless, the personalities involved need to understand that
   there
 abides an intelligent segment of participants on the lutelist who
   will
 never contribute on the Faceb**k platform.  That particular platform
   is
 the opposite of how Wayne laid out and maintained the lutelist.  The
 format (which I call MyFace because participants seem to care very
 little about what others post) is sufficient for trivia and vanity
 postings, but for musicians who want to promote themselves, Faceb**k
 actually suppresses distribution of any post that emits even a whiff
   of
 commercial potential.  The platform is focused on two primary
 objectives: 1) encouraging posters to reveal more information than
   they
 should, 2) monetizing said information in every and any way possible.
 Not the same as the lutelist, which, thanks to Wayne, has steadfastly
 embodied the outmoded egalitarian aspects of the internet.  It is now
   a
 brave new world populated by the greedy and deceptive masquerading as
 old school free-culture types.  Good luck with following up on your
 ideas, but don't be surprised if a large number of people choose to
   not
 participate in your scheme.
 RA
 From: [1]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
 <[2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of LSA Editor
 <[3]lsaq.edi...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:56 PM
 To: LSA President <[4]lutesocietyamericapresid...@gmail.com>;
   lutelist Net
     <[5]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site
 Hi Cathy,
 I am including Sean about your questions on the lutelist versus
   FB.
 Sean looks both them and Nig even more than I do, so can give you
   a
 better answer.  Here are my sanswers:
 The lutelist is old-fashioned and it's biggest virtue is that we
 have
 access to people like Art Ness and Martin Shepherd to answer
 questions.  It's vibe is a bit more toward the serious lute
   player,
 but
 the people are mostly patient with newbies with questions. It is
   not
 the place for promoting you CD or next concert.
 FB IS the place to promote anything and everything and I think
   Larry
 spends time getting rid of the messages that off topic.  FB has a
 younger vibe - or maybe it had a younger vibe when it started. I
 hear
 it has been taken over by groups like the LSA and some musicians
   use
 it
 instead of a web page.  FB can have pictures and mostly postings
   are
 very short.
 I don't think the lutelist needs much curating, at least not
   right
 now.
 We've had a couple of differences of opinion in the past, but
 nothing
 recently.  Another big benefit for me is that people access the
 lutelist using their own emails and I can keep the email address
   for
 future contacts. The people there are a big source of additions
   to
 my
 lists of prospective LSA members. I can be the moderator for the
 lutelist until it's up and running and we find a good person to
   take
 the job over. We don't have the problem with the LL of every tom,
 dick
 and harry wanting to join it - it's more for the cognisenti.
   David
 Smith might be a good moderator - he's been on the LL for years.
 When I had an orpharion for sale on Wayne's list (and it wasn't
 selling) Wayne checked in with me to see if it was still for sale
 after
 about a year.  This seems to me to be a small job that only needs
 looking at every few months.  I think the other part of  job is
 posting
 new instruments for sale.
 We would also need to make sure people know where to find both
   the
 LL
 and LFS lists - a few CC blitzes?, since people are used to going
   to
 his Dartmouth site and it wi

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[Ron Andrico]

   I'm guessing that it was an oversight to copy the entire lutelist with
   this message thread, which shares some awkward ideas (and language).
   Nevertheless, the personalities involved need to understand that there
   abides an intelligent segment of participants on the lutelist who will
   never contribute on the Faceb**k platform.  That particular platform is
   the opposite of how Wayne laid out and maintained the lutelist.  The
   format (which I call MyFace because participants seem to care very
   little about what others post) is sufficient for trivia and vanity
   postings, but for musicians who want to promote themselves, Faceb**k
   actually suppresses distribution of any post that emits even a whiff of
   commercial potential.  The platform is focused on two primary
   objectives: 1) encouraging posters to reveal more information than they
   should, 2) monetizing said information in every and any way possible.
   Not the same as the lutelist, which, thanks to Wayne, has steadfastly
   embodied the outmoded egalitarian aspects of the internet.  It is now a
   brave new world populated by the greedy and deceptive masquerading as
   old school free-culture types.  Good luck with following up on your
   ideas, but don't be surprised if a large number of people choose to not
   participate in your scheme.

   RA

   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of LSA Editor
   
   Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:56 PM
   To: LSA President ; lutelist Net
   
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site

  Hi Cathy,
  I am including Sean about your questions on the lutelist versus FB.
  Sean looks both them and Nig even more than I do, so can give you a
  better answer.  Here are my sanswers:
  The lutelist is old-fashioned and it's biggest virtue is that we
   have
  access to people like Art Ness and Martin Shepherd to answer
  questions.  It's vibe is a bit more toward the serious lute player,
   but
  the people are mostly patient with newbies with questions. It is not
  the place for promoting you CD or next concert.
  FB IS the place to promote anything and everything and I think Larry
  spends time getting rid of the messages that off topic.  FB has a
  younger vibe - or maybe it had a younger vibe when it started. I
   hear
  it has been taken over by groups like the LSA and some musicians use
   it
  instead of a web page.  FB can have pictures and mostly postings are
  very short.
  I don't think the lutelist needs much curating, at least not right
   now.
  We've had a couple of differences of opinion in the past, but
   nothing
  recently.  Another big benefit for me is that people access the
  lutelist using their own emails and I can keep the email address for
  future contacts. The people there are a big source of additions to
   my
  lists of prospective LSA members. I can be the moderator for the
  lutelist until it's up and running and we find a good person to take
  the job over. We don't have the problem with the LL of every tom,
   dick
  and harry wanting to join it - it's more for the cognisenti.  David
  Smith might be a good moderator - he's been on the LL for years.
  When I had an orpharion for sale on Wayne's list (and it wasn't
  selling) Wayne checked in with me to see if it was still for sale
   after
  about a year.  This seems to me to be a small job that only needs
  looking at every few months.  I think the other part of  job is
   posting
  new instruments for sale.
  We would also need to make sure people know where to find both the
   LL
  and LFS lists - a few CC blitzes?, since people are used to going to
  his Dartmouth site and it will be linked on places like the ELS
   site.
  Nancy
  I agree. Now that we are back on solid footing — Whew! We should not
  piss off people like Wayne after all he has done. We should probably
  not piss of anyone! — we can proceed.
  What happens on the lute list that doesn't happen on Facebook or on
  Danny Shoskes' site? Just curious.
  What kind of curating does ithe lute list need to work well and be a
  benefit? There is little point in setting one up if we don't have
  someone dedicated to keeping it operating properly, not only from
   the
  tech standpoint, but just as important, to keep nasty people off.
   The
  same question applies to the Lutes for sale listings. At the very
   least
  we need someone ready to take posts down when the seller has
   completed
  the transaction.
  I might see if Chris Henriksen can tell me if Bill Good would be
   good
  for this kind of thing. He did not want to be a custodian, but maybe
  this is more to his liking. Maybe Lyn Abissi will know someone.
   These
  two were making great strides 

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[LSA Editor]

Sorry that was meant to be a private email!!
Nancy

Hi Cathy,
I am including Sean about your questions on the lutelist versus FB.
Sean looks both them and Nig even more than I do, so can give you a
better answer.  Here are my sanswers:
The lutelist is old-fashioned and it's biggest virtue is that we have
access to people like Art Ness and Martin Shepherd to answer
questions.  It's vibe is a bit more toward the serious lute player, but
the people are mostly patient with newbies with questions. It is not
the place for promoting you CD or next concert.
FB IS the place to promote anything and everything and I think Larry
spends time getting rid of the messages that off topic.  FB has a
younger vibe - or maybe it had a younger vibe when it started. I hear
it has been taken over by groups like the LSA and some musicians use it
instead of a web page.  FB can have pictures and mostly postings are
very short.
I don't think the lutelist needs much curating, at least not right now.
We've had a couple of differences of opinion in the past, but nothing
recently.  Another big benefit for me is that people access the
lutelist using their own emails and I can keep the email address for
future contacts. The people there are a big source of additions to my
lists of prospective LSA members. I can be the moderator for the
lutelist until it's up and running and we find a good person to take
the job over. We don't have the problem with the LL of every tom, dick
and harry wanting to join it - it's more for the cognisenti.  David
Smith might be a good moderator - he's been on the LL for years.
When I had an orpharion for sale on Wayne's list (and it wasn't
selling) Wayne checked in with me to see if it was still for sale after
about a year.  This seems to me to be a small job that only needs
looking at every few months.  I think the other part of  job is posting
new instruments for sale.
We would also need to make sure people know where to find both the LL
and LFS lists - a few CC blitzes?, since people are used to going to
his Dartmouth site and it will be linked on places like the ELS site.
Nancy

I agree. Now that we are back on solid footing — Whew! We should not
piss off people like Wayne after all he has done. We should probably
not piss of anyone! — we can proceed.

What happens on the lute list that doesn't happen on Facebook or on
Danny Shoskes' site? Just curious.

What kind of curating does ithe lute list need to work well and be a
benefit? There is little point in setting one up if we don't have
someone dedicated to keeping it operating properly, not only from the
tech standpoint, but just as important, to keep nasty people off. The
same question applies to the Lutes for sale listings. At the very least
we need someone ready to take posts down when the seller has completed
the transaction.

I might see if Chris Henriksen can tell me if Bill Good would be good
for this kind of thing. He did not want to be a custodian, but maybe
this is more to his liking. Maybe Lyn Abissi will know someone. These
two were making great strides toward setting up a local chapter here in
Boston, but the pandemic knocked that out, as far as I know.

At the next Board meeting, hopefully this fall, maybe some of our new
Board members will either step up or know someone who could be asked.

Feeling relieved that we are on a better track with this.

Cathy

Catherine Liddell
President/Chairman of the Board
[uc?id9TJhsqVKmGMNWhuR19WWXJYQU0&export=download]
[1]www.lutesocietyofamerica.org
On Sep 3, 2020, at 12:33 PM, LSA Editor <[2]lsaq.edi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I think we should go ahead and get a new lutelist and For Sale list
going so that we can harvest as many people as possible from the old
lists ASAP - before they go away.  Wayne has not mentioned his archive
of all the old discussions on the lutelist and I am pretty sure from
the note below he will not be giving them to us or anyone else.  I
think people do use that, but if he wants to keep it for himself,
that's fine. How about if I go ahead and start copying the text and
contacts from the For Sale list? Jerry says he can set up a new lute
list very quickly.
I think both the lutelist and the For Sale list have been around for so
long that there will be dead links for years bouncing toward Wayne's
old computers. I am less interested in the pictures because David van
Edwards has done a lot with pictures for the ELS. I have never looked
at his treatises - again it is less interesting.
Nancy

HI Cathy
 Thanks for your thoughtful and carefully worded message.  I guess I
was a little careless in the wording of my original message.  My
intention was that someone, (perhaps the L

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[LSA Editor]

   Hi Cathy,
   I am including Sean about your questions on the lutelist versus FB.
   Sean looks both them and Nig even more than I do, so can give you a
   better answer.  Here are my sanswers:
   The lutelist is old-fashioned and it's biggest virtue is that we have
   access to people like Art Ness and Martin Shepherd to answer
   questions.  It's vibe is a bit more toward the serious lute player, but
   the people are mostly patient with newbies with questions. It is not
   the place for promoting you CD or next concert.
   FB IS the place to promote anything and everything and I think Larry
   spends time getting rid of the messages that off topic.  FB has a
   younger vibe - or maybe it had a younger vibe when it started. I hear
   it has been taken over by groups like the LSA and some musicians use it
   instead of a web page.  FB can have pictures and mostly postings are
   very short.
   I don't think the lutelist needs much curating, at least not right now.
   We've had a couple of differences of opinion in the past, but nothing
   recently.  Another big benefit for me is that people access the
   lutelist using their own emails and I can keep the email address for
   future contacts. The people there are a big source of additions to my
   lists of prospective LSA members. I can be the moderator for the
   lutelist until it's up and running and we find a good person to take
   the job over. We don't have the problem with the LL of every tom, dick
   and harry wanting to join it - it's more for the cognisenti.  David
   Smith might be a good moderator - he's been on the LL for years.
   When I had an orpharion for sale on Wayne's list (and it wasn't
   selling) Wayne checked in with me to see if it was still for sale after
   about a year.  This seems to me to be a small job that only needs
   looking at every few months.  I think the other part of  job is posting
   new instruments for sale.
   We would also need to make sure people know where to find both the LL
   and LFS lists - a few CC blitzes?, since people are used to going to
   his Dartmouth site and it will be linked on places like the ELS site.
   Nancy

   I agree. Now that we are back on solid footing — Whew! We should not
   piss off people like Wayne after all he has done. We should probably
   not piss of anyone! — we can proceed.

   What happens on the lute list that doesn't happen on Facebook or on
   Danny Shoskes' site? Just curious.

   What kind of curating does ithe lute list need to work well and be a
   benefit? There is little point in setting one up if we don't have
   someone dedicated to keeping it operating properly, not only from the
   tech standpoint, but just as important, to keep nasty people off. The
   same question applies to the Lutes for sale listings. At the very least
   we need someone ready to take posts down when the seller has completed
   the transaction.

   I might see if Chris Henriksen can tell me if Bill Good would be good
   for this kind of thing. He did not want to be a custodian, but maybe
   this is more to his liking. Maybe Lyn Abissi will know someone. These
   two were making great strides toward setting up a local chapter here in
   Boston, but the pandemic knocked that out, as far as I know.

   At the next Board meeting, hopefully this fall, maybe some of our new
   Board members will either step up or know someone who could be asked.

   Feeling relieved that we are on a better track with this.

   Cathy

   Catherine Liddell
   President/Chairman of the Board
   [uc?id9TJhsqVKmGMNWhuR19WWXJYQU0&export=download]
   [1]www.lutesocietyofamerica.org
   On Sep 3, 2020, at 12:33 PM, LSA Editor <[2]lsaq.edi...@gmail.com>
   wrote:
   I think we should go ahead and get a new lutelist and For Sale list
   going so that we can harvest as many people as possible from the old
   lists ASAP - before they go away.  Wayne has not mentioned his archive
   of all the old discussions on the lutelist and I am pretty sure from
   the note below he will not be giving them to us or anyone else.  I
   think people do use that, but if he wants to keep it for himself,
   that's fine. How about if I go ahead and start copying the text and
   contacts from the For Sale list? Jerry says he can set up a new lute
   list very quickly.
   I think both the lutelist and the For Sale list have been around for so
   long that there will be dead links for years bouncing toward Wayne's
   old computers. I am less interested in the pictures because David van
   Edwards has done a lot with pictures for the ELS. I have never looked
   at his treatises - again it is less interesting.
   Nancy

   HI Cathy
Thanks for your thoughtful and carefully worded message.  I guess I
   was a little careless in the wording of my original message.  My
   intention was that someone, (perhaps the LSA), could start their own
   list, using their own software and computers, and announce it on my
   list when they were set up.  May

[LUTE] Re: Fancy by John Danyel

[Jean-Marie Poirier]

Surprises to come in keeping with this particular aspect of things in our 
future programme of Elizabethan lute duets with A Due Liuti called «The 
Marygolde», with a good deal of our own reconstructions or adaptations 
respecting the style prevailing then ! 
Stay tuned !
Jean-Marie 

> Le 3 sept. 2020 à 19:49, Alain Veylit  a écrit :
> 
> Thank you much Martin,
> 
> It goes on to show how important it is to give credit and to show that 
> alternatives do/should exist :) Reconstructing lute parts is a thankless, 
> arduous but necessary task/art!
> 
> PS: Has anybody noticed that none of the numerous grounds to the Queen's 
> goodnight seem to fit the treble in Marsh or D.d3.18??
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9/1/20 11:06 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote:
>> Yes, the reconstructions of both the Fancy and a Merry Mood are by Robert 
>> Spencer.
>> 
>> Several more reconstructions of the Fancy can be found in my edition of the 
>> works of Danyel, available from the Lute Society.
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>>> On 02/09/2020 07:18, Alain Veylit wrote:
>>> Thank you Denys,
>>> 
>>> Yes, it is Robert Spencer (I could not remember, but now I do!) -- Do
>>> you happen to know if Robert was also responsible for part 2 of In a
>>> merry mood, also in Sampson?
>>> 
 On 9/1/20 4:58 PM, Denys Stephens wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Alain, the version of that piece that I know has the second lute part 
>>> recon
>>> structed by Robert Spencer. There were few people better placed than him to 
>>> trac
>>> k down the original, and my understanding is that reconstruction was made 
>>> becaus
>>> e it wasn't to be found. That was a good many years ago, and as far as I'm 
>>> aware
>>>   Danyel's second part is still missing. Best wishes, Denys
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
 On 2 Sep 2020, at 00:25, Alain Veylit [1] wrote:
>>> 
>>> Does anybody happen to know who wrote the second lute part for John 
>>> Danyel's fan
>>> cy, Sampson [f11r] ? It has become standard but it is systematically not 
>>> credite
>>> d...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> References
>>> 
>>> 1. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
>>> 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Fancy by John Danyel

[Martin Shepherd]

Yes, the Queen's goodnight (or just "good night") is a problem. I've 
been looking also at the solo versions and they have a few glitches


M

P.S. it seems everybody plays them as written, even when there are 
missing bars - sigh. If that's the norm for such an obvious, short 
ground bass, what hope is there for more complex pieces?


M


On 03/09/2020 19:47, Alain Veylit wrote:


Thank you much Martin,

It goes on to show how important it is to give credit and to show that 
alternatives do/should exist :) Reconstructing lute parts is a 
thankless, arduous but necessary task/art!


PS: Has anybody noticed that none of the numerous grounds to the 
Queen's goodnight seem to fit the treble in Marsh or D.d3.18??




On 9/1/20 11:06 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote:
Yes, the reconstructions of both the Fancy and a Merry Mood are by 
Robert Spencer.


Several more reconstructions of the Fancy can be found in my edition 
of the works of Danyel, available from the Lute Society.


Best wishes,

Martin

On 02/09/2020 07:18, Alain Veylit wrote:

    Thank you Denys,

    Yes, it is Robert Spencer (I could not remember, but now I do!) 
-- Do
    you happen to know if Robert was also responsible for part 2 of 
In a

    merry mood, also in Sampson?

    On 9/1/20 4:58 PM, Denys Stephens wrote:

Dear Alain, the version of that piece that I know has the second 
lute part recon
structed by Robert Spencer. There were few people better placed than 
him to trac
k down the original, and my understanding is that reconstruction was 
made becaus
e it wasn't to be found. That was a good many years ago, and as far 
as I'm aware

  Danyel's second part is still missing. Best wishes, Denys

Sent from my iPhone


On 2 Sep 2020, at 00:25, Alain Veylit [1] 
wrote:


Does anybody happen to know who wrote the second lute part for John 
Danyel's fan
cy, Sampson [f11r] ? It has become standard but it is systematically 
not credite

d...



To get on or off this list see list information at
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


    --

References

    1. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
    2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html





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[LUTE] Re: Fancy by John Danyel

[Alain Veylit]

Thank you much Martin,

It goes on to show how important it is to give credit and to show that 
alternatives do/should exist :) Reconstructing lute parts is a 
thankless, arduous but necessary task/art!


PS: Has anybody noticed that none of the numerous grounds to the Queen's 
goodnight seem to fit the treble in Marsh or D.d3.18??




On 9/1/20 11:06 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote:
Yes, the reconstructions of both the Fancy and a Merry Mood are by 
Robert Spencer.


Several more reconstructions of the Fancy can be found in my edition 
of the works of Danyel, available from the Lute Society.


Best wishes,

Martin

On 02/09/2020 07:18, Alain Veylit wrote:

    Thank you Denys,

    Yes, it is Robert Spencer (I could not remember, but now I do!) 
-- Do

    you happen to know if Robert was also responsible for part 2 of In a
    merry mood, also in Sampson?

    On 9/1/20 4:58 PM, Denys Stephens wrote:

Dear Alain, the version of that piece that I know has the second lute 
part recon
structed by Robert Spencer. There were few people better placed than 
him to trac
k down the original, and my understanding is that reconstruction was 
made becaus
e it wasn't to be found. That was a good many years ago, and as far 
as I'm aware

  Danyel's second part is still missing. Best wishes, Denys

Sent from my iPhone


On 2 Sep 2020, at 00:25, Alain Veylit [1] 
wrote:


Does anybody happen to know who wrote the second lute part for John 
Danyel's fan
cy, Sampson [f11r] ? It has become standard but it is systematically 
not credite

d...



To get on or off this list see list information at
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


    --

References

    1. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
    2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Fancy by John Danyel

[Martin Shepherd]

Yes, the reconstructions of both the Fancy and a Merry Mood are by 
Robert Spencer.


Several more reconstructions of the Fancy can be found in my edition of 
the works of Danyel, available from the Lute Society.


Best wishes,

Martin

On 02/09/2020 07:18, Alain Veylit wrote:

Thank you Denys,

Yes, it is Robert Spencer (I could not remember, but now I do!) -- Do
you happen to know if Robert was also responsible for part 2 of In a
merry mood, also in Sampson?

On 9/1/20 4:58 PM, Denys Stephens wrote:

Dear Alain, the version of that piece that I know has the second lute part recon
structed by Robert Spencer. There were few people better placed than him to trac
k down the original, and my understanding is that reconstruction was made becaus
e it wasn't to be found. That was a good many years ago, and as far as I'm aware
  Danyel's second part is still missing. Best wishes, Denys

Sent from my iPhone


On 2 Sep 2020, at 00:25, Alain Veylit [1] wrote:

Does anybody happen to know who wrote the second lute part for John Danyel's fan
cy, Sampson [f11r] ? It has become standard but it is systematically not credite
d...



To get on or off this list see list information at
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

References

1. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



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[LUTE] Re: Fancy by John Danyel

[Alain Veylit]

   Thank you Denys,

   Yes, it is Robert Spencer (I could not remember, but now I do!) -- Do
   you happen to know if Robert was also responsible for part 2 of In a
   merry mood, also in Sampson?

   On 9/1/20 4:58 PM, Denys Stephens wrote:

Dear Alain, the version of that piece that I know has the second lute part recon
structed by Robert Spencer. There were few people better placed than him to trac
k down the original, and my understanding is that reconstruction was made becaus
e it wasn't to be found. That was a good many years ago, and as far as I'm aware
 Danyel's second part is still missing. Best wishes, Denys

Sent from my iPhone


On 2 Sep 2020, at 00:25, Alain Veylit [1] wrote:

Does anybody happen to know who wrote the second lute part for John Danyel's fan
cy, Sampson [f11r] ? It has become standard but it is systematically not credite
d...



To get on or off this list see list information at
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


   --

References

   1. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Fancy by John Danyel

[Denys Stephens]

Dear Alain, the version of that piece that I know has the second lute part 
reconstructed by Robert Spencer. There were few people better placed than him 
to track down the original, and my understanding is that reconstruction was 
made because it wasn’t to be found. That was a good many years ago, and as far 
as I’m aware Danyel’s second part is still missing. Best wishes, Denys 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Sep 2020, at 00:25, Alain Veylit  wrote:
> 
> Does anybody happen to know who wrote the second lute part for John Danyel's 
> fancy, Sampson [f11r] ? It has become standard but it is systematically not 
> credited...
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Fancy by John Danyel

[Alain Veylit]

Does anybody happen to know who wrote the second lute part for John 
Danyel's fancy, Sampson [f11r] ? It has become standard but it is 
systematically not credited...




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Ringfinger

[RC P]

Daumenschlag also known as Durchstreichen

On 8/31/2020 9:32 AM, Christopher Wilke wrote:

I'll give it a try. Something like...

"The individual signs and numbers (of a chord) should be plucked with
one finger each as long as it doesn't exceed the number of fingers of
the right hand. When it has more than four courses that exceed the
number of fingers, play them all with a strum of the thumb
(Daumenschlag)."

Chris

On Monday, August 31, 2020, 9:08 AM, Rainer
 wrote:

From Judenkunig's

Utilis et compendiaria introductio (1510-20 (?), no year)

Preterea admonendus es ut literas et characteres numeri quotquot
ordinatim signis notarum supponuntur,

singulas eorum cordas singulis digitis (si modo digitorum dextre
numerum non

excedunt) discretim aut si plures sunt quam quatuor, digitorumque
numerum

superant, simul uno ictu pollicis oberrando percucias pulsesque.

Die einzelnen Chorsaiten der Buchstaben und Ziffern sollen mit je einem
Finger angeschlagen

werden, falls sie nicht etwa die Zahl der Finger der rechten Hand
überschreiten.

Sind es aber mehr als vier Chorsaiten und überschreiten die Zahl der
Finger, sollen

sie (alle) zugleich mit einem Daumenschlag gestreift werden.

German translation by Hans Radke

Anybody crazy enough to provide an English translation?

Anyway, this clearly indirectly states that the third finger of the
right hand was used.

See

Hans Radke

Acta Musicologica, Vol. 52, Fasc. 2 (Jul. - Dec., 1980), pp. 134-147

Am 30.08.2020 um 21:10 schrieb Martin Shepherd:

> Le Roy (1568/74) explains it all...

>

> M

>

> On 30/08/2020 17:14, Leonard Williams wrote:

>> Good question--I have a hard time getting my ring finger working
well,

>> especially switching between single-note runs and four-note
chords.  I

>> can't separate it far enough from my pinky. How were chords of
more

>> than three notes played without ring finger in thumb-in play?

>> Regards,

>> Leonard Williams

>> -Original Message-

>> From: [1]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de

>> To: lute net <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Lute arc

>> <[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu>

>> Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2020 8:59 am

>> Subject: [LUTE] Ringfinger

>> Dear all,

>> first of all I'd like to express my sincerest gratitude towards
Wayne

>> for creating this great forum! Unfortunately I became only a
member a

>> few years ago, but still I enjoyed much of the discussions here!
I

>> hope,

>> that the list will continue also after Wayne's retirement!

>> The actual reason for writing is this time about the use of the

>> ringfinger of the right hand in 16th/early 17th century lute
music.

>> What

>> do we know about it? When did lute players start to use it? It
would be

>> great to collect some sources, with your generous help! Also
ideas for

>> modern literature is appreciated!

>> Have a nice sunday and enjoy lute playing

>> Yuval

>> To get on or off this list see list information at

>> [1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

>>

>> --

>>

>> References

>>

>> 1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

>>

>

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References

1. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html