Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

 From: Denis J Navas denis.na...@gmail.com
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:23:16 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?
 

John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca escribió en el mensaje de 
noticias:1355320240.2678.yahoomail...@web162406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com...


 


 From: Uwe Stöhr 
uwesto...@web.de
To: obregonma...@gmail.com 
Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 7:34:36 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with 
LyX?

Am 11.12.2012 01:14, schrieb obregonma...@gmail.com:

 
Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; these 
journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals in 
psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long as the 
tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do not rely on 
any special latex compiling instructions.

Thanks for the clarification. 
So a layout for APA  6 is indeed useful.  However, I won't have time 
to write it and hope that anybody else can volunteer. if you like, I can review 
the layout.

thanks and regards
Uwe

Hi Uwe,

That would be 
great. I am not sure that I have enough knowledge to help but I certainly would 
consider it.

One of the reasons I first asked about this was not so much 
about direct submission for publication though that is very important--the APA 
5th Manual says that over a 1000 non-APA journals use the Manual but because 
every psychology student in North America and from what I see, in at least most 
of the English-speaking psychological world uses it in preparing papers plus 
French speaking students in Québec. There are suggestions here and there that 
the style is used in several (many?) other languages .  This also seems to 
extend to Education, Nursing  and a host of other social science 
disciplines that I am not familiar with.

Essentially a paper for these 
students must conform pretty much exactly to the equivalent of 
\documentclass[man,12pt]{apa6}.  I don't know know if there is a 
hard-science or math equivalent: Perhaps all undergraduate math student 
assignments need to match AMA formatting guidelines?   

At a 
rough guess, students in my city with a community college, one small and one 
medium sized unviersty probably submit 5,000 APA formatted papers each year. 
Also, as others have mentioned, with a bit of minor tweaking APA sets the style 
for theses or disertations in a broad range of disciplines.  Come to think 
of it, other disciplinces with less stringent stylistic demands may well be 
very 
happy with \documentclass[doc,12pt]{apa6}.

So my thought was let's catch 
them while they are young. From my own experience and talking to some current 
students using APA can be a real hassle and a decent apa6 option in LyX would 
likely be a real crowd pleaser, especially once they learned about bibtex.  





Universities here in Nicaragua, use APA style for thesis.
 
Denis J Navas
Thanks.
I think I may start some kind of list about who used APA style around the 
world.  Unfortunately I only sead Englsih and French so tracking down uses in 
other languages may be a problem. 

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

 From: Denis J Navas denis.na...@gmail.com
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:23:16 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?
 

John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca escribió en el mensaje de 
noticias:1355320240.2678.yahoomail...@web162406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com...


 


 From: Uwe Stöhr 
uwesto...@web.de
To: obregonma...@gmail.com 
Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 7:34:36 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with 
LyX?

Am 11.12.2012 01:14, schrieb obregonma...@gmail.com:

 
Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; these 
journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals in 
psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long as the 
tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do not rely on 
any special latex compiling instructions.

Thanks for the clarification. 
So a layout for APA  6 is indeed useful.  However, I won't have time 
to write it and hope that anybody else can volunteer. if you like, I can review 
the layout.

thanks and regards
Uwe

Hi Uwe,

That would be 
great. I am not sure that I have enough knowledge to help but I certainly would 
consider it.

One of the reasons I first asked about this was not so much 
about direct submission for publication though that is very important--the APA 
5th Manual says that over a 1000 non-APA journals use the Manual but because 
every psychology student in North America and from what I see, in at least most 
of the English-speaking psychological world uses it in preparing papers plus 
French speaking students in Québec. There are suggestions here and there that 
the style is used in several (many?) other languages .  This also seems to 
extend to Education, Nursing  and a host of other social science 
disciplines that I am not familiar with.

Essentially a paper for these 
students must conform pretty much exactly to the equivalent of 
\documentclass[man,12pt]{apa6}.  I don't know know if there is a 
hard-science or math equivalent: Perhaps all undergraduate math student 
assignments need to match AMA formatting guidelines?   

At a 
rough guess, students in my city with a community college, one small and one 
medium sized unviersty probably submit 5,000 APA formatted papers each year. 
Also, as others have mentioned, with a bit of minor tweaking APA sets the style 
for theses or disertations in a broad range of disciplines.  Come to think 
of it, other disciplinces with less stringent stylistic demands may well be 
very 
happy with \documentclass[doc,12pt]{apa6}.

So my thought was let's catch 
them while they are young. From my own experience and talking to some current 
students using APA can be a real hassle and a decent apa6 option in LyX would 
likely be a real crowd pleaser, especially once they learned about bibtex.  





Universities here in Nicaragua, use APA style for thesis.
 
Denis J Navas
Thanks.
I think I may start some kind of list about who used APA style around the 
world.  Unfortunately I only sead Englsih and French so tracking down uses in 
other languages may be a problem. 

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

 From: Denis J Navas <denis.na...@gmail.com>
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:23:16 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?
 

"John Kane" <jrkrid...@yahoo.ca> escribió en el mensaje de 
noticias:1355320240.2678.yahoomail...@web162406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com...


 


 From: Uwe Stöhr 
<uwesto...@web.de>
To: obregonma...@gmail.com 
Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 7:34:36 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with 
LyX?

Am 11.12.2012 01:14, schrieb obregonma...@gmail.com:

> 
Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; these 
journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals in 
psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long as the 
tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do not rely on 
any special latex compiling instructions.

Thanks for the clarification. 
So a layout for APA  6 is indeed useful.  However, I won't have time 
to write it and hope that anybody else can volunteer. if you like, I can review 
the layout.

thanks and regards
Uwe

Hi Uwe,

That would be 
great. I am not sure that I have enough knowledge to help but I certainly would 
consider it.

One of the reasons I first asked about this was not so much 
about direct submission for publication though that is very important--the APA 
5th Manual says that over a 1000 non-APA journals use the Manual but because 
every psychology student in North America and from what I see, in at least most 
of the English-speaking psychological world uses it in preparing papers plus 
French speaking students in Québec. There are suggestions here and there that 
the style is used in several (many?) other languages .  This also seems to 
extend to Education, Nursing  and a host of other social science 
disciplines that I am not familiar with.

Essentially a paper for these 
students must conform pretty much exactly to the equivalent of 
\documentclass[man,12pt]{apa6}.  I don't know know if there is a 
hard-science or math equivalent: Perhaps all undergraduate math student 
assignments need to match AMA formatting guidelines?   

At a 
rough guess, students in my city with a community college, one small and one 
medium sized unviersty probably submit 5,000 APA formatted papers each year. 
Also, as others have mentioned, with a bit of minor tweaking APA sets the style 
for theses or disertations in a broad range of disciplines.  Come to think 
of it, other disciplinces with less stringent stylistic demands may well be 
very 
happy with \documentclass[doc,12pt]{apa6}.

So my thought was let's catch 
them while they are young. From my own experience and talking to some current 
students using APA can be a real hassle and a decent apa6 option in LyX would 
likely be a real crowd pleaser, especially once they learned about bibtex.  





Universities here in Nicaragua, use APA style for thesis.
 
Denis J Navas
Thanks.
I think I may start some kind of list about who used APA style around the 
world.  Unfortunately I only sead Englsih and French so tracking down uses in 
other languages may be a problem. 

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

 From: stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com
To: Ray Rashif schivmeis...@gmail.com 
Cc: Jacob Bishop bishop.ja...@gmail.com; obregonma...@gmail.com; 
lyx-users@lists.lyx.org lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 2:01:39 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?
 






On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Ray Rashif schivmeis...@gmail.com wrote:

On 11 December 2012 01:21, Jacob Bishop bishop.ja...@gmail.com wrote:
 have found very few people in the social sciences who are even aware of
 LaTeX. Not closed minded, just unaware. They use MS Word and Endnote because
 they don't know that there are good/better (free) alternatives.

And this stems from the fact that social science has negligible need
for (typesetting) equations, because that's what really sets LaTeX
apart. With MS Word you can configure references, cite them and
arrange your document based on styles. For qualitative/descriptive
papers, that is enough. As such, few people find any need to go out of
their way to look for something better.



rant
Not true. LyX/Latex's benefits are not limited to typesetting equations 
(although it does a much better job that its competition in that area). A 
Latex-typeset document looks better in many other respects---from 
paragraph-division and typesetting (in spite of recent improvements in Word's 
algorithms), to consistent application of style, down to small but crucial 
things such as determining font sizes/leading[1]. 

The reason why Social sciences/Humanities are happy with Word/Endnote is 
(historically speaking) different: authors used to submit  Word files (or, 
earlier, Wordstar) and the publisher would import and typeset with real 
typesetting software. Such programs (and still are) were usually very bad at 
typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single formula was 
tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. That was prompted D 
Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of professional typesetting software for 
math, not the similar but irrelevant problem in word processing program. The 
lack of equations in the Humanities/Social Sciences made the traditional 
process working smooth and insured that the typographical quality of 
publications in the fields was high, or at least acceptable. Authors used 
primitive (typographically speaking) software, publishers used real typesetters 
and everyone was happy.

Except...that desktop publishing happened and publishers started to cut down on 
costs by using word as a typesetting program. Even worse, when they started 
asking for pdf,  camera-ready  they would provide typographical specs as series 
of Word instructions, since they do not know any better (all the typesetters 
having long gone). The result is that the vast majority of Humanities/Social 
Sciences journal and and increasing number of Humanities *books*  are now 
typographically ugly and often barely readable

The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural 
sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using Latex/TeX, 
the quality of their journal and books was only minimally affected (although it 
was: it takes a truly capable typesetter to achieve high results in 
Latex--relying on standard classes is only the starting point. And most authors 
not named Knuth are not great typesetters).

That's why we in the Humanities are stuck with Word as a publishing 
tool---because it used to work well as a drafting tool when the industry worked 
differently, not because we do not use equations.

/rant

Now, now, remain calm.  Of course, just to reinforce your point have a look at 
http://www.apa.org/pubs/authors/instructions.aspx  on  page 2  which points out 
the sorry state at least in the APA journals.  The assumption is Word though it 
is not required otherwise unless some journals do specifically request it.

Display Equations

We strongly encourage you to use MathType (third-party software) or Equation 
Editor 3.0 (built into pre-2007 versions of Word) to construct your equations, 
rather than the equation support that is built into Word 2007 and Word 2010. 
Equations composed with the built-in Word 2007/Word 2010 equation support are 
converted to low resolution graphics when they enter the production process and 
must be rekeyed by the typesetter, which may introduce errors.



 


-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic Studies            Ph:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University                          Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Denis J Navas]

John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca escribió en el mensaje de 
noticias:1355320240.2678.yahoomail...@web162406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com...





From: Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@web.de
To: obregonma...@gmail.com 
Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 7:34:36 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?


Am 11.12.2012 01:14, schrieb obregonma...@gmail.com:

 Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; 
 these journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals 
 in psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long as 
 the tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do not 
 rely on any special latex compiling instructions.

Thanks for the clarification. So a layout for APA  6 is indeed useful.  
However, I won't have time to write it and hope that anybody else can 
volunteer. if you like, I can review the layout.

thanks and regards
Uwe

Hi Uwe,

That would be great. I am not sure that I have enough knowledge to help but I 
certainly would consider it.

One of the reasons I first asked about this was not so much about direct 
submission for publication though that is very important--the APA 5th Manual 
says that over a 1000 non-APA journals use the Manual but because every 
psychology student in North America and from what I see, in at least most of 
the English-speaking psychological world uses it in preparing papers plus 
French speaking students in Québec. There are suggestions here and there that 
the style is used in several (many?) other languages .  This also seems to 
extend to Education, Nursing  and a host of other social science disciplines 
that I am not familiar with.

Essentially a paper for these students must conform pretty much exactly to the 
equivalent of \documentclass[man,12pt]{apa6}.  I don't know know if there is a 
hard-science or math equivalent: Perhaps all undergraduate math student 
assignments need to match AMA formatting guidelines?   

At a rough guess, students in my city with a community college, one small and 
one medium sized unviersty probably submit 5,000 APA formatted papers each 
year. Also, as others have mentioned, with a bit of minor tweaking APA sets the 
style for theses or disertations in a broad range of disciplines.  Come to 
think of it, other disciplinces with less stringent stylistic demands may well 
be very happy with \documentclass[doc,12pt]{apa6}.

So my thought was let's catch them while they are young. From my own experience 
and talking to some current students using APA can be a real hassle and a 
decent apa6 option in LyX would likely be a real crowd pleaser, especially once 
they learned about bibtex.  





Universities here in Nicaragua, use APA style for thesis.

Denis J Navas

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

 From: stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com
To: Ray Rashif schivmeis...@gmail.com 
Cc: Jacob Bishop bishop.ja...@gmail.com; obregonma...@gmail.com; 
lyx-users@lists.lyx.org lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 2:01:39 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?
 






On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Ray Rashif schivmeis...@gmail.com wrote:

On 11 December 2012 01:21, Jacob Bishop bishop.ja...@gmail.com wrote:
 have found very few people in the social sciences who are even aware of
 LaTeX. Not closed minded, just unaware. They use MS Word and Endnote because
 they don't know that there are good/better (free) alternatives.

And this stems from the fact that social science has negligible need
for (typesetting) equations, because that's what really sets LaTeX
apart. With MS Word you can configure references, cite them and
arrange your document based on styles. For qualitative/descriptive
papers, that is enough. As such, few people find any need to go out of
their way to look for something better.



rant
Not true. LyX/Latex's benefits are not limited to typesetting equations 
(although it does a much better job that its competition in that area). A 
Latex-typeset document looks better in many other respects---from 
paragraph-division and typesetting (in spite of recent improvements in Word's 
algorithms), to consistent application of style, down to small but crucial 
things such as determining font sizes/leading[1]. 

The reason why Social sciences/Humanities are happy with Word/Endnote is 
(historically speaking) different: authors used to submit  Word files (or, 
earlier, Wordstar) and the publisher would import and typeset with real 
typesetting software. Such programs (and still are) were usually very bad at 
typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single formula was 
tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. That was prompted D 
Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of professional typesetting software for 
math, not the similar but irrelevant problem in word processing program. The 
lack of equations in the Humanities/Social Sciences made the traditional 
process working smooth and insured that the typographical quality of 
publications in the fields was high, or at least acceptable. Authors used 
primitive (typographically speaking) software, publishers used real typesetters 
and everyone was happy.

Except...that desktop publishing happened and publishers started to cut down on 
costs by using word as a typesetting program. Even worse, when they started 
asking for pdf,  camera-ready  they would provide typographical specs as series 
of Word instructions, since they do not know any better (all the typesetters 
having long gone). The result is that the vast majority of Humanities/Social 
Sciences journal and and increasing number of Humanities *books*  are now 
typographically ugly and often barely readable

The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural 
sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using Latex/TeX, 
the quality of their journal and books was only minimally affected (although it 
was: it takes a truly capable typesetter to achieve high results in 
Latex--relying on standard classes is only the starting point. And most authors 
not named Knuth are not great typesetters).

That's why we in the Humanities are stuck with Word as a publishing 
tool---because it used to work well as a drafting tool when the industry worked 
differently, not because we do not use equations.

/rant

Now, now, remain calm.  Of course, just to reinforce your point have a look at 
http://www.apa.org/pubs/authors/instructions.aspx  on  page 2  which points out 
the sorry state at least in the APA journals.  The assumption is Word though it 
is not required otherwise unless some journals do specifically request it.

Display Equations

We strongly encourage you to use MathType (third-party software) or Equation 
Editor 3.0 (built into pre-2007 versions of Word) to construct your equations, 
rather than the equation support that is built into Word 2007 and Word 2010. 
Equations composed with the built-in Word 2007/Word 2010 equation support are 
converted to low resolution graphics when they enter the production process and 
must be rekeyed by the typesetter, which may introduce errors.



 


-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic Studies            Ph:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University                          Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Denis J Navas]

John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca escribió en el mensaje de 
noticias:1355320240.2678.yahoomail...@web162406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com...





From: Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@web.de
To: obregonma...@gmail.com 
Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 7:34:36 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?


Am 11.12.2012 01:14, schrieb obregonma...@gmail.com:

 Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; 
 these journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals 
 in psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long as 
 the tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do not 
 rely on any special latex compiling instructions.

Thanks for the clarification. So a layout for APA  6 is indeed useful.  
However, I won't have time to write it and hope that anybody else can 
volunteer. if you like, I can review the layout.

thanks and regards
Uwe

Hi Uwe,

That would be great. I am not sure that I have enough knowledge to help but I 
certainly would consider it.

One of the reasons I first asked about this was not so much about direct 
submission for publication though that is very important--the APA 5th Manual 
says that over a 1000 non-APA journals use the Manual but because every 
psychology student in North America and from what I see, in at least most of 
the English-speaking psychological world uses it in preparing papers plus 
French speaking students in Québec. There are suggestions here and there that 
the style is used in several (many?) other languages .  This also seems to 
extend to Education, Nursing  and a host of other social science disciplines 
that I am not familiar with.

Essentially a paper for these students must conform pretty much exactly to the 
equivalent of \documentclass[man,12pt]{apa6}.  I don't know know if there is a 
hard-science or math equivalent: Perhaps all undergraduate math student 
assignments need to match AMA formatting guidelines?   

At a rough guess, students in my city with a community college, one small and 
one medium sized unviersty probably submit 5,000 APA formatted papers each 
year. Also, as others have mentioned, with a bit of minor tweaking APA sets the 
style for theses or disertations in a broad range of disciplines.  Come to 
think of it, other disciplinces with less stringent stylistic demands may well 
be very happy with \documentclass[doc,12pt]{apa6}.

So my thought was let's catch them while they are young. From my own experience 
and talking to some current students using APA can be a real hassle and a 
decent apa6 option in LyX would likely be a real crowd pleaser, especially once 
they learned about bibtex.  





Universities here in Nicaragua, use APA style for thesis.

Denis J Navas

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

 From: stefano franchi <stefano.fran...@gmail.com>
To: Ray Rashif <schivmeis...@gmail.com> 
Cc: Jacob Bishop <bishop.ja...@gmail.com>; obregonma...@gmail.com; 
"lyx-users@lists.lyx.org" <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org> 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 2:01:39 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?
 






On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Ray Rashif <schivmeis...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 11 December 2012 01:21, Jacob Bishop <bishop.ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> have found very few people in the social sciences who are even aware of
>> LaTeX. Not closed minded, just unaware. They use MS Word and Endnote because
>> they don't know that there are good/better (free) alternatives.
>
>And this stems from the fact that social science has negligible need
>for (typesetting) equations, because that's what really sets LaTeX
>apart. With MS Word you can configure references, cite them and
>arrange your document based on styles. For qualitative/descriptive
>papers, that is enough. As such, few people find any need to go out of
>their way to look for something better.
>
>


Not true. LyX/Latex's benefits are not limited to typesetting equations 
(although it does a much better job that its competition in that area). A 
Latex-typeset document looks better in many other respects---from 
paragraph-division and typesetting (in spite of recent improvements in Word's 
algorithms), to consistent application of style, down to small but crucial 
things such as determining font sizes/leading[1]. 

The reason why Social sciences/Humanities are happy with Word/Endnote is 
(historically speaking) different: authors used to submit  Word files (or, 
earlier, Wordstar) and the publisher would import and typeset with real 
typesetting software. Such programs (and still are) were usually very bad at 
typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single formula was 
tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. That was prompted D 
Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of professional typesetting software for 
math, not the similar but irrelevant problem in word processing program. The 
lack of equations in the Humanities/Social Sciences made the traditional 
process working smooth and insured that the typographical quality of 
publications in the fields was high, or at least acceptable. Authors used 
primitive (typographically speaking) software, publishers used real typesetters 
and everyone was happy.

Except...that desktop publishing happened and publishers started to cut down on 
costs by using word as a typesetting program. Even worse, when they started 
asking for pdf,  camera-ready  they would provide typographical specs as series 
of Word instructions, since they do not know any better (all the typesetters 
having long gone). The result is that the vast majority of Humanities/Social 
Sciences journal and and increasing number of Humanities *books*  are now 
typographically ugly and often barely readable

The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural 
sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using Latex/TeX, 
the quality of their journal and books was only minimally affected (although it 
was: it takes a truly capable typesetter to achieve high results in 
Latex--relying on standard classes is only the starting point. And most authors 
not named Knuth are not great typesetters).

That's why we in the Humanities are stuck with Word as a publishing 
tool---because it used to work well as a drafting tool when the industry worked 
differently, not because we do not use equations.



Now, now, remain calm.  Of course, just to reinforce your point have a look at 
http://www.apa.org/pubs/authors/instructions.aspx  on  page 2  which points out 
the sorry state at least in the APA journals.  The assumption is Word though it 
is not required otherwise unless some journals do specifically request it.

Display Equations

We strongly encourage you to use MathType (third-party software) or Equation 
Editor 3.0 (built into pre-2007 versions of Word) to construct your equations, 
rather than the equation support that is built into Word 2007 and Word 2010. 
Equations composed with the built-in Word 2007/Word 2010 equation support are 
converted to low resolution graphics when they enter the production process and 
must be rekeyed by the typesetter, which may introduce errors.



 


-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic Studies            Ph:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas A University                          Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Denis J Navas]

"John Kane" <jrkrid...@yahoo.ca> escribió en el mensaje de 
noticias:1355320240.2678.yahoomail...@web162406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com...





From: Uwe Stöhr <uwesto...@web.de>
To: obregonma...@gmail.com 
Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 7:34:36 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?


Am 11.12.2012 01:14, schrieb obregonma...@gmail.com:

> Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; 
> these journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals 
> in psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long as 
> the tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do not 
> rely on any special latex compiling instructions.

Thanks for the clarification. So a layout for APA  6 is indeed useful.  
However, I won't have time to write it and hope that anybody else can 
volunteer. if you like, I can review the layout.

thanks and regards
Uwe

Hi Uwe,

That would be great. I am not sure that I have enough knowledge to help but I 
certainly would consider it.

One of the reasons I first asked about this was not so much about direct 
submission for publication though that is very important--the APA 5th Manual 
says that over a 1000 non-APA journals use the Manual but because every 
psychology student in North America and from what I see, in at least most of 
the English-speaking psychological world uses it in preparing papers plus 
French speaking students in Québec. There are suggestions here and there that 
the style is used in several (many?) other languages .  This also seems to 
extend to Education, Nursing  and a host of other social science disciplines 
that I am not familiar with.

Essentially a paper for these students must conform pretty much exactly to the 
equivalent of \documentclass[man,12pt]{apa6}.  I don't know know if there is a 
hard-science or math equivalent: Perhaps all undergraduate math student 
assignments need to match AMA formatting guidelines?   

At a rough guess, students in my city with a community college, one small and 
one medium sized unviersty probably submit 5,000 APA formatted papers each 
year. Also, as others have mentioned, with a bit of minor tweaking APA sets the 
style for theses or disertations in a broad range of disciplines.  Come to 
think of it, other disciplinces with less stringent stylistic demands may well 
be very happy with \documentclass[doc,12pt]{apa6}.

So my thought was let's catch them while they are young. From my own experience 
and talking to some current students using APA can be a real hassle and a 
decent apa6 option in LyX would likely be a real crowd pleaser, especially once 
they learned about bibtex.  





Universities here in Nicaragua, use APA style for thesis.

Denis J Navas

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2012, 21:31:25 schrieb Rob Oakes:
Rob, those links are very helpful and clarifying things which are not 
obvious to the novice!
Wolfgang
 http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/02/custom-lyx-nih
 http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/14/customize-lyx-character-sty
 les (Character styles)
 http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/19/latex-cv-part4

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[José Matos]

On 12/11/2012 09:29 AM, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
 Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2012, 21:31:25 schrieb Rob Oakes:
 Rob, those links are very helpful and clarifying things which are not 
 obvious to the novice!
 Wolfgang

If other doubts arrive (probability ~= 1) do not hesitate to use this list.

Now that I have used that symbol above I am craving for a coffee. ~=] :-D

Regards,

-- 
José Matos

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Wolfgang,

I'm glad they were helpful:

On Tue, 2012-12-11 at 10:36 +0100, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
 Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2012, 21:31:25 schrieben Sie:
 
 Hi, Rob, 
 
 has this been done already:
 
 TeXLive 2009 is included with Ubuntu 10.04, if you are able to update your 
 Linux distribution. If not, it is possible to install newer versions of 
 TeXLive alongside an existing install. I am currently working on a blog 
 post that explains how this is done and I will post it when finished.

A lot of those entries have gotten a bit long in the tooth (though I
think everything is still applicable, one of the really nice thing about
TeX and LyX, it never feels like there is a system of planned
obsolescence).

Regarding how to upgrade TeX Live, I did write a post describing how to
do it: http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/07/15/latex-custom

Though it talks about LaTeX 2010, the instructions can be adapted to
nearly any LaTeX distribution, as far as I know. I used the same
procedure recently to install TeXLive 2012.

(Speaking of which, if you use TeXLive 2012 and luaTeX, be very careful.
They've made some big changes, and it's caused a bunch of things to
break. Or, at least none of my luaTeX documents will compile anymore;
both from LyX and pure TeX. I haven't yet had time to sort out where the
problem is.)

I'd love to link to a more updated set of instructions. When you finish
your post, let me know, I'll to post a link.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Jacob Bishop]

 Hi Mateo, John, Ray, Jacob (and everyone else),

 It seems APA6 is useful to a lot of people and in particular to you
 guys. How about we make a layout for it together then?


I will be happy to help. As soon as I get caught up on some things, I will
clean up what I am using and see if we can use or modify it to fit the
need. Expect to hear back sometime this weekend (when I get a bit more free
time).

Jacob

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2012, 21:31:25 schrieb Rob Oakes:
Rob, those links are very helpful and clarifying things which are not 
obvious to the novice!
Wolfgang
 http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/02/custom-lyx-nih
 http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/14/customize-lyx-character-sty
 les (Character styles)
 http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/19/latex-cv-part4

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[José Matos]

On 12/11/2012 09:29 AM, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
 Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2012, 21:31:25 schrieb Rob Oakes:
 Rob, those links are very helpful and clarifying things which are not 
 obvious to the novice!
 Wolfgang

If other doubts arrive (probability ~= 1) do not hesitate to use this list.

Now that I have used that symbol above I am craving for a coffee. ~=] :-D

Regards,

-- 
José Matos

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Wolfgang,

I'm glad they were helpful:

On Tue, 2012-12-11 at 10:36 +0100, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
 Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2012, 21:31:25 schrieben Sie:
 
 Hi, Rob, 
 
 has this been done already:
 
 TeXLive 2009 is included with Ubuntu 10.04, if you are able to update your 
 Linux distribution. If not, it is possible to install newer versions of 
 TeXLive alongside an existing install. I am currently working on a blog 
 post that explains how this is done and I will post it when finished.

A lot of those entries have gotten a bit long in the tooth (though I
think everything is still applicable, one of the really nice thing about
TeX and LyX, it never feels like there is a system of planned
obsolescence).

Regarding how to upgrade TeX Live, I did write a post describing how to
do it: http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/07/15/latex-custom

Though it talks about LaTeX 2010, the instructions can be adapted to
nearly any LaTeX distribution, as far as I know. I used the same
procedure recently to install TeXLive 2012.

(Speaking of which, if you use TeXLive 2012 and luaTeX, be very careful.
They've made some big changes, and it's caused a bunch of things to
break. Or, at least none of my luaTeX documents will compile anymore;
both from LyX and pure TeX. I haven't yet had time to sort out where the
problem is.)

I'd love to link to a more updated set of instructions. When you finish
your post, let me know, I'll to post a link.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Jacob Bishop]

 Hi Mateo, John, Ray, Jacob (and everyone else),

 It seems APA6 is useful to a lot of people and in particular to you
 guys. How about we make a layout for it together then?


I will be happy to help. As soon as I get caught up on some things, I will
clean up what I am using and see if we can use or modify it to fit the
need. Expect to hear back sometime this weekend (when I get a bit more free
time).

Jacob

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2012, 21:31:25 schrieb Rob Oakes:
Rob, those links are very helpful and clarifying things which are not 
obvious to the novice!
Wolfgang
> http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/02/custom-lyx-nih
> http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/14/customize-lyx-character-sty
> les (Character styles)
> http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/19/latex-cv-part4

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[José Matos]

On 12/11/2012 09:29 AM, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
> Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2012, 21:31:25 schrieb Rob Oakes:
> Rob, those links are very helpful and clarifying things which are not 
> obvious to the novice!
> Wolfgang

If other doubts arrive (probability ~= 1) do not hesitate to use this list.

Now that I have used that symbol above I am craving for a coffee. ~=] :-D

Regards,

-- 
José Matos

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Wolfgang,

I'm glad they were helpful:

On Tue, 2012-12-11 at 10:36 +0100, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
> Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2012, 21:31:25 schrieben Sie:
> 
> Hi, Rob, 
> 
> has this been done already:
> 
> TeXLive 2009 is included with Ubuntu 10.04, if you are able to update your 
> Linux distribution. If not, it is possible to install newer versions of 
> TeXLive alongside an existing install. I am currently working on a blog 
> post that explains how this is done and I will post it when finished.

A lot of those entries have gotten a bit long in the tooth (though I
think everything is still applicable, one of the really nice thing about
TeX and LyX, it never feels like there is a system of planned
obsolescence).

Regarding how to upgrade TeX Live, I did write a post describing how to
do it: http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/07/15/latex-custom

Though it talks about LaTeX 2010, the instructions can be adapted to
nearly any LaTeX distribution, as far as I know. I used the same
procedure recently to install TeXLive 2012.

(Speaking of which, if you use TeXLive 2012 and luaTeX, be very careful.
They've made some big changes, and it's caused a bunch of things to
break. Or, at least none of my luaTeX documents will compile anymore;
both from LyX and pure TeX. I haven't yet had time to sort out where the
problem is.)

I'd love to link to a more updated set of instructions. When you finish
your post, let me know, I'll to post a link.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Jacob Bishop]

>
> Hi Mateo, John, Ray, Jacob (and everyone else),
>
> It seems APA6 is useful to a lot of people and in particular to you
> guys. How about we make a layout for it together then?
>

I will be happy to help. As soon as I get caught up on some things, I will
clean up what I am using and see if we can use or modify it to fit the
need. Expect to hear back sometime this weekend (when I get a bit more free
time).

Jacob

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Richard Heck]

On 12/09/2012 10:27 PM, David L. Johnson wrote:

On 12/09/2012 07:23 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal 
submission class you cannot use for submission to that journal? Why 
should we invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?


My understanding is that APA is used by a wide range of humanistic and 
social sciences publications.  It is possible that some of them would 
indeed accept Latex (though maybe not likely), and others might well 
accept pdf files, as limiting as that may seem.


And some people might want to use the APA class for their own reasons, 
or maybe the APA will decide to start accepting LaTeX again, or who 
knows what. The point was that if someone wants to write an updated 
layout file, they can do so, and we'll be happy to include it with LyX. 
But it probably does seem like something that's not very pressing.


Richard

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[obregonmateo]

I think people are missing the point here ... Lyx is *great* for writing and 
getting references and labels right! This goes for APA journals as much as for 
math/engineering journals.

I have co-authored several articles for APA journals and the pay-off of writing 
them in Lyx and then getting them into LaTeX or PDF has been wonderful, 
especially as I have *not* had to make final typo changes/corrections to the 
submitted/reviewed article before printing.

So, *please* keep the APA6 layout and corresponding bibtex referencing 
up-to-date!

Mateo.

On Monday 10 December 2012, Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/09/2012 10:27 PM, David L. Johnson wrote:
  On 12/09/2012 07:23 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
  I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal 
  submission class you cannot use for submission to that journal? Why 
  should we invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?
 
  My understanding is that APA is used by a wide range of humanistic and 
  social sciences publications.  It is possible that some of them would 
  indeed accept Latex (though maybe not likely), and others might well 
  accept pdf files, as limiting as that may seem.
 
 And some people might want to use the APA class for their own reasons, 
 or maybe the APA will decide to start accepting LaTeX again, or who 
 knows what. The point was that if someone wants to write an updated 
 layout file, they can do so, and we'll be happy to include it with LyX. 
 But it probably does seem like something that's not very pressing.
 
 Richard
 
 

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Jacob Bishop]

I recently shifted from Engineering to Psychology (actually Engineering
Education, but I am currently preparing a publication for an APA journal).
I used LyX for my masters' thesis, and LaTeX is the only acceptable thesis
format for some of the Engineering departments. When professors started
requiring that I write my papers using APA6, I quickly tried to figure out
how that could be done with LyX. I was not about to abandon my favorite
document preparation system for nothing. I have found there are basically
two routes you can go. There is an apa6e class and an apa6 class. The apa6e
class is a minimal class that incorporates apa6 guidelines for formatting
titles, but leaves references and things to the user to configure. The apa6
class is a bit more thorough. It is an updated version of the apa class and
as such has three modes for preparing an article. It adheres fairly
strictly to apa guidelines and the reference format is hard-coded. I
recently had to borrow some code from this class and combine it with the
Engineering dissertation template from my u to get a suitable dissertation
format that makes both the college of Engineering, and the department (of
Engineering Education) happy. I would also mention that for the publication
I am preparing, we use structural equation diagrams that I prepare with
TikZ and go right into the LyX document. I would hate to have to do those
diagrams any other way.

So, while it is unfortunate that we do not have an official apa6 template
with LyX, there are LaTeX users who do apa6 (like me). You can use that
class with any document. To get it to work, I basically just copied the LyX
layout file from the apa class and made a few modifications. Then, I
downloaded the apa6 class file and used it. This works reasonably well. By
the way, it is not the APA who decides whether to accept LaTeX or not, it
is each journal individually. Frankly, I think this is sort of a chicken
and the egg problem. If enough users wanted to submit with LaTeX, journals
would accept it, but many won't bother until there are more LaTeX users.
Also, I have found very few people in the social sciences who are even
aware of LaTeX. Not closed minded, just unaware. They use MS Word and
Endnote because they don't know that there are good/better (free)
alternatives.

Jacob

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Ray Rashif]

On 11 December 2012 01:21, Jacob Bishop bishop.ja...@gmail.com wrote:
 have found very few people in the social sciences who are even aware of
 LaTeX. Not closed minded, just unaware. They use MS Word and Endnote because
 they don't know that there are good/better (free) alternatives.

And this stems from the fact that social science has negligible need
for (typesetting) equations, because that's what really sets LaTeX
apart. With MS Word you can configure references, cite them and
arrange your document based on styles. For qualitative/descriptive
papers, that is enough. As such, few people find any need to go out of
their way to look for something better.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[stefano franchi]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Ray Rashif schivmeis...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 11 December 2012 01:21, Jacob Bishop bishop.ja...@gmail.com wrote:
  have found very few people in the social sciences who are even aware of
  LaTeX. Not closed minded, just unaware. They use MS Word and Endnote
 because
  they don't know that there are good/better (free) alternatives.

 And this stems from the fact that social science has negligible need
 for (typesetting) equations, because that's what really sets LaTeX
 apart. With MS Word you can configure references, cite them and
 arrange your document based on styles. For qualitative/descriptive
 papers, that is enough. As such, few people find any need to go out of
 their way to look for something better.


rant
Not true. LyX/Latex's benefits are not limited to typesetting equations
(although it does a much better job that its competition in that area). A
Latex-typeset document looks better in many other respects---from
paragraph-division and typesetting (in spite of recent improvements in
Word's algorithms), to consistent application of style, down to small but
crucial things such as determining font sizes/leading[1].

The reason why Social sciences/Humanities are happy with Word/Endnote is
(historically speaking) different: authors used to submit  Word files (or,
earlier, Wordstar) and the publisher would import and typeset with real
typesetting software. Such programs (and still are) were usually very bad
at typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single formula was
tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. That was
prompted D Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of professional
typesetting software for math, not the similar but irrelevant problem in
word processing program. The lack of equations in the Humanities/Social
Sciences made the traditional process working smooth and insured that the
typographical quality of publications in the fields was high, or at least
acceptable. Authors used primitive (typographically speaking) software,
publishers used real typesetters and everyone was happy.

Except...that desktop publishing happened and publishers started to cut
down on costs by using word as a typesetting program. Even worse, when they
started asking for pdf,  camera-ready  they would provide typographical
specs as series of Word instructions, since they do not know any better
(all the typesetters having long gone). The result is that the vast
majority of Humanities/Social Sciences journal and and increasing number of
Humanities *books*  are now typographically ugly and often barely readable

The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural
sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using
Latex/TeX, the quality of their journal and books was only minimally
affected (although it was: it takes a truly capable typesetter to achieve
high results in Latex--relying on standard classes is only the starting
point. And most authors not named Knuth are not great typesetters).

That's why we in the Humanities are stuck with Word as a publishing
tool---because it used to work well as a drafting tool when the industry
worked differently, not because we do not use equations.

/rant








-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[David L. Johnson]

On 12/10/2012 02:01 PM, stefano franchi wrote:


rant

8
Such programs [Word and Wordstar] (and still are) were usually very 
bad at typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single 
formula was tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. 
That was prompted D Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of 
professional typesetting software for math, not the similar but 
irrelevant problem in word processing program.


Actually, TeX predated Word, and Wordstar (or Wordperfect).  People used 
to run it on DECs.  While there were other math-typsetting (to use the 
phrase loosely) PC programs before TeX became usable on PCs, such as Jim 
Milgram's Techprint which he wrote for Radio-Shack computers with 28K 
ram, most of us used a combination of typewriters and hand-written 
symbols.  A respectable journal would typeset the paper from the 
typewritten copy, but a few insisted on camera-ready --- literally --- 
proofs, which resulted in published papers and books with handwritten 
symbols.  I suspect that Knuth was reacting to that mess rather than 
equations in Word.  I typed my own Ph.D. thesis on an IBM selectric, 
with those interchangeable golf-ball fonts, going over each line 2 or 3 
times.   A nightmare.


I experienced the full range of mathematical text preparation.  I've 
written papers on the typewriter, using hand-drawn symbols and markups 
for a typesetter, Techprint (another nightmare), 2 or 3 PC-based, 
non-graphical programs that produced half-assed output, a couple of 
WYSIWYG programs, plain AMS-TeX using a text editor with occasional 
previews, to LyX.  Clearly the present situation has been the only 
reasonable one.




The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural 
sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using 
Latex/TeX, the quality of their journal and books was only minimally 
affected
With the exception of those journals and texts that were typeset with a 
full array of symbols, the use of TeX has vastly improved the appearance 
of papers (if not the content).  The AMS journals from the 1970s and 
before were works of art, but even most Springer-Verlag monographs were 
truly ugly.


--

David L. Johnson

The motor car reflects our standard of living and gauges the speed of
our present life. It long ago ran down Simple Living, and never halted
to inquire about the prostrate figure which fell as its victim.
-- Warren G. Harding

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Richard Heck]

On 12/10/2012 02:29 PM, David L. Johnson wrote:

On 12/10/2012 02:01 PM, stefano franchi wrote:



The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural 
sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using 
Latex/TeX, the quality of their journal and books was only minimally 
affected


With the exception of those journals and texts that were typeset with 
a full array of symbols, the use of TeX has vastly improved the 
appearance of papers (if not the content).  The AMS journals from the 
1970s and before were works of art, but even most Springer-Verlag 
monographs were truly ugly.


What always amuses me is that there seem to be several journals that 
won't accept LaTeX but then when you get the proofs, it's obvious it's 
LaTeX. You see the filename at the top of the page. Fortunately, there 
seems to be a bit of a trend here, and people will get it figured out.


Richard

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:42 AM,  obregonma...@gmail.com wrote:
 I think people are missing the point here ... Lyx is *great* for writing and 
 getting references and labels right! This goes for APA journals as much as 
 for math/engineering journals.

 I have co-authored several articles for APA journals and the pay-off of 
 writing them in Lyx and then getting them into LaTeX or PDF has been 
 wonderful, especially as I have *not* had to make final typo 
 changes/corrections to the submitted/reviewed article before printing.

 So, *please* keep the APA6 layout and corresponding bibtex referencing 
 up-to-date!

Hi Mateo, John, Ray, Jacob (and everyone else),

It seems APA6 is useful to a lot of people and in particular to you
guys. How about we make a layout for it together then?

I know absolutely nothing about APA6 (or psychology for that matter),
little about layouts, and very little about document classes. But I am
confident that we can do it. Look in your library directory (go to
Help  About if you don't know where it is) and then go to
layouts/apa.layout.
Open it up. It shouldn't look too scary to you. It looks more like
English to me than programming (thank you to the LyX developers who
have made it look so nice and flexible). So this is an opportunity
where even if you don't know/like programming, you can help out.

But wait, that's not all. If we learn the LyX layout format, in
addition to us making an apa6 layout (and thus helping ourselves and
potentially a lot of others), we'll learn how to customize LyX layouts
to our liking. This can be very useful and can make using LyX a lot
more fun and personalized.

The developers around here are extremely nice and generous and would
help us out when we get stuck. But they are involved in a million
things and it's not clear at all to me that they should stop doing
those things in order to make this layout, especially when I'm sure
we're capable of doing it.

Who's in?

Scott

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Rob Oakes]

If you're going to go the customization route, this might be of help:

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/02/custom-lyx-nih

It talks about creating a custom layout for an existing document class.

Related posts with more examples can be found at:

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/14/customize-lyx-character-styles
(Character styles)

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/19/latex-cv-part4
(Second example of how to create a layout for an existing document
class. The other posts in the same series how to write a custom document
class.)

Best of luck in the endeavor!

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Richard Heck]

On 12/10/2012 03:07 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote:

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:42 AM,  obregonma...@gmail.com wrote:

I think people are missing the point here ... Lyx is *great* for writing and 
getting references and labels right! This goes for APA journals as much as for 
math/engineering journals.

I have co-authored several articles for APA journals and the pay-off of writing them in 
Lyx and then getting them into LaTeX or PDF has been wonderful, especially as I have 
*not* had to make final typo changes/corrections to the submitted/reviewed 
article before printing.

So, *please* keep the APA6 layout and corresponding bibtex referencing 
up-to-date!

Hi Mateo, John, Ray, Jacob (and everyone else),

It seems APA6 is useful to a lot of people and in particular to you
guys. How about we make a layout for it together then?

I know absolutely nothing about APA6 (or psychology for that matter),
little about layouts, and very little about document classes. But I am
confident that we can do it. Look in your library directory (go to
Help  About if you don't know where it is) and then go to
layouts/apa.layout.
Open it up. It shouldn't look too scary to you. It looks more like
English to me than programming (thank you to the LyX developers who
have made it look so nice and flexible). So this is an opportunity
where even if you don't know/like programming, you can help out.

But wait, that's not all. If we learn the LyX layout format, in
addition to us making an apa6 layout (and thus helping ourselves and
potentially a lot of others), we'll learn how to customize LyX layouts
to our liking. This can be very useful and can make using LyX a lot
more fun and personalized.

The developers around here are extremely nice and generous and would
help us out when we get stuck. But they are involved in a million
things and it's not clear at all to me that they should stop doing
those things in order to make this layout, especially when I'm sure
we're capable of doing it.

Who's in?
I'm happy to give loads of advice, too. Here's how I'd start: Get some 
kind of example LaTeX file that exercises as much of what APA6 provides 
as is possible. Copy the existing apa.layout file to apa6.layout and 
change the second line to:


#  \DeclareLaTeXClass[apa6]{article (APA v6)}

Now try to load your example file in LyX. What doesn't work will be what 
needs fixing. There will be more to do, as well, but you will get a long 
way just doing that much.


Oh, and I'd avoid the biblatex bits of APA6 for now. Use something like:
ClassOptions
Other natbib
End
to force the use of that option.

Richard

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Ray Rashif]

On 11 December 2012 03:01, stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:
 rant
 Not true. LyX/Latex's benefits are not limited to typesetting equations
 (although it does a much better job that its competition in that area). A
 Latex-typeset document looks better in many other respects---from
 paragraph-division and typesetting (in spite of recent improvements in
 Word's algorithms), to consistent application of style, down to small but
 crucial things such as determining font sizes/leading[1].

 The reason why Social sciences/Humanities are happy with Word/Endnote is
 (historically speaking) different: authors used to submit  Word files (or,
 earlier, Wordstar) and the publisher would import and typeset with real
 typesetting software. Such programs (and still are) were usually very bad at
 typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single formula was
 tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. That was prompted
 D Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of professional typesetting
 software for math, not the similar but irrelevant problem in word processing
 program. The lack of equations in the Humanities/Social Sciences made the
 traditional process working smooth and insured that the typographical
 quality of publications in the fields was high, or at least acceptable.
 Authors used primitive (typographically speaking) software, publishers used
 real typesetters and everyone was happy.

 Except...that desktop publishing happened and publishers started to cut down
 on costs by using word as a typesetting program. Even worse, when they
 started asking for pdf,  camera-ready  they would provide typographical
 specs as series of Word instructions, since they do not know any better (all
 the typesetters having long gone). The result is that the vast majority of
 Humanities/Social Sciences journal and and increasing number of Humanities
 *books*  are now typographically ugly and often barely readable

 The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural
 sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using
 Latex/TeX, the quality of their journal and books was only minimally
 affected (although it was: it takes a truly capable typesetter to achieve
 high results in Latex--relying on standard classes is only the starting
 point. And most authors not named Knuth are not great typesetters).

 That's why we in the Humanities are stuck with Word as a publishing
 tool---because it used to work well as a drafting tool when the industry
 worked differently, not because we do not use equations.

 /rant

Thank you Stefano - that was exactly the background story I was hoping
someone would fill in. My brief statement on equations was just a
layman's generalisation on why faculty would go through the trouble to
suggest LaTeX to students (surely, STEM lecturers would have _more_
reason).

TeX/LaTeX/LyX is definitely not _only_ about equations. I recently
edited and typeset (like you said, no one better than Knuth,
especially not someone who only played with his father's relic
typewriter as a toddler) a social science dissertation completely in
LyX with some LaTeX fiddling.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[stefano franchi]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:29 PM, David L. Johnson
david.john...@lehigh.eduwrote:

 On 12/10/2012 02:01 PM, stefano franchi wrote:


 rant

 8

 Such programs [Word and Wordstar] (and still are) were usually very bad
 at typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single formula was
 tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. That was
 prompted D Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of professional
 typesetting software for math, not the similar but irrelevant problem in
 word processing program.


 Actually, TeX predated Word, and Wordstar (or Wordperfect).  People used
 to run it on DECs.  While there were other math-typsetting (to use the
 phrase loosely) PC programs before TeX became usable on PCs, such as Jim
 Milgram's Techprint which he wrote for Radio-Shack computers with 28K
 ram, most of us used a combination of typewriters and hand-written symbols.
  A respectable journal would typeset the paper from the typewritten copy,
 but a few insisted on camera-ready --- literally --- proofs, which
 resulted in published papers and books with handwritten symbols.  I suspect
 that Knuth was reacting to that mess rather than equations in Word.  I
 typed my own Ph.D. thesis on an IBM selectric, with those interchangeable
 golf-ball fonts, going over each line 2 or 3 times.   A nightmare.


I didn't mean to imply Word (or Wordstar) were used before TeX---just that
Word-equivalent software and/or mechanical devices (i.e. typerwriters: I
wrote my thesis on a Olivetti Lettera 22. And I was an innovator: my
adviser would only handwrite and had a secretary type his books) were the
common first step for both scientists and humanists. The publishers then
took the second and final step using different tools (and sometimes
resorting to handwritten symbols. I remember well that many of may symbolic
logic books in college contained such horrors).
But whereas publishers usually did a good job with humanists' texts, they
often did a terrible one with formulas. Hence, TeX.

When the second step was eliminated, scientists were left with TeX, and we
poor Humanists were left with Word. LyX is our great white hope. Or the
pink one, considering the default background

/really end rant

Cheers,

S.

-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[David L. Johnson]

On 12/10/2012 05:51 PM, stefano franchi wrote:


/really end rant

Cheers,


Hullabaloo, caneck, caneck.

--

David L. Johnson

Become MicroSoft-free forever.  Ask me how.

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 10.12.2012 02:33, schrieb Kayvan Sylvan:


They accept PDF submissions, so I suppose you could use apa6 in LyX if
it's available and export to PDF.


This seems to be the case, but only for supplements as I understood this and TeX is explicitly not 
allowed:

http://www.apa.org/pubs/authors/supp-material.aspx

Maybe I'm wrong and PDfs are also allowed for the main text. If so a layout for APA 6 would indeed 
be useful.


regards Uwe

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[obregonmateo]

Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; these 
journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals in 
psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long as the 
tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do not rely on 
any special latex compiling instructions.

With regards to the link below, it is only referring to file types that can be 
uploaded as supplementary material and *not* addressing in any way what the 
manuscript is prepared in.

Mateo.

On Monday 10 December 2012, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
 Am 10.12.2012 02:33, schrieb Kayvan Sylvan:
 
  They accept PDF submissions, so I suppose you could use apa6 in LyX if
  it's available and export to PDF.
 
 This seems to be the case, but only for supplements as I understood this and 
 TeX is explicitly not 
 allowed:
 http://www.apa.org/pubs/authors/supp-material.aspx
 
 Maybe I'm wrong and PDfs are also allowed for the main text. If so a layout 
 for APA 6 would indeed 
 be useful.
 
 regards Uwe
 

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 11.12.2012 01:14, schrieb obregonma...@gmail.com:


Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; these 
journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals in 
psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long as the 
tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do not rely on 
any special latex compiling instructions.


Thanks for the clarification. So a layout for APA  6 is indeed useful.  However, I won't have time 
to write it and hope that anybody else can volunteer. if you like, I can review the layout.


thanks and regards
Uwe

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[obregonmateo]

Thanks Uwe for offering to review a layout for APA6.

Others here are also interested in making this work, so I'm sure we'll have 
something soon for you to look at.

Mateo.

On Tuesday 11 December 2012, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
 Am 11.12.2012 01:14, schrieb obregonma...@gmail.com:
 
  Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; 
  these journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals 
  in psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long 
  as the tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do 
  not rely on any special latex compiling instructions.
 
 Thanks for the clarification. So a layout for APA  6 is indeed useful.  
 However, I won't have time 
 to write it and hope that anybody else can volunteer. if you like, I can 
 review the layout.
 
 thanks and regards
 Uwe
 

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Richard Heck]

On 12/09/2012 10:27 PM, David L. Johnson wrote:

On 12/09/2012 07:23 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal 
submission class you cannot use for submission to that journal? Why 
should we invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?


My understanding is that APA is used by a wide range of humanistic and 
social sciences publications.  It is possible that some of them would 
indeed accept Latex (though maybe not likely), and others might well 
accept pdf files, as limiting as that may seem.


And some people might want to use the APA class for their own reasons, 
or maybe the APA will decide to start accepting LaTeX again, or who 
knows what. The point was that if someone wants to write an updated 
layout file, they can do so, and we'll be happy to include it with LyX. 
But it probably does seem like something that's not very pressing.


Richard

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[obregonmateo]

I think people are missing the point here ... Lyx is *great* for writing and 
getting references and labels right! This goes for APA journals as much as for 
math/engineering journals.

I have co-authored several articles for APA journals and the pay-off of writing 
them in Lyx and then getting them into LaTeX or PDF has been wonderful, 
especially as I have *not* had to make final typo changes/corrections to the 
submitted/reviewed article before printing.

So, *please* keep the APA6 layout and corresponding bibtex referencing 
up-to-date!

Mateo.

On Monday 10 December 2012, Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/09/2012 10:27 PM, David L. Johnson wrote:
  On 12/09/2012 07:23 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
  I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal 
  submission class you cannot use for submission to that journal? Why 
  should we invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?
 
  My understanding is that APA is used by a wide range of humanistic and 
  social sciences publications.  It is possible that some of them would 
  indeed accept Latex (though maybe not likely), and others might well 
  accept pdf files, as limiting as that may seem.
 
 And some people might want to use the APA class for their own reasons, 
 or maybe the APA will decide to start accepting LaTeX again, or who 
 knows what. The point was that if someone wants to write an updated 
 layout file, they can do so, and we'll be happy to include it with LyX. 
 But it probably does seem like something that's not very pressing.
 
 Richard
 
 

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Jacob Bishop]

I recently shifted from Engineering to Psychology (actually Engineering
Education, but I am currently preparing a publication for an APA journal).
I used LyX for my masters' thesis, and LaTeX is the only acceptable thesis
format for some of the Engineering departments. When professors started
requiring that I write my papers using APA6, I quickly tried to figure out
how that could be done with LyX. I was not about to abandon my favorite
document preparation system for nothing. I have found there are basically
two routes you can go. There is an apa6e class and an apa6 class. The apa6e
class is a minimal class that incorporates apa6 guidelines for formatting
titles, but leaves references and things to the user to configure. The apa6
class is a bit more thorough. It is an updated version of the apa class and
as such has three modes for preparing an article. It adheres fairly
strictly to apa guidelines and the reference format is hard-coded. I
recently had to borrow some code from this class and combine it with the
Engineering dissertation template from my u to get a suitable dissertation
format that makes both the college of Engineering, and the department (of
Engineering Education) happy. I would also mention that for the publication
I am preparing, we use structural equation diagrams that I prepare with
TikZ and go right into the LyX document. I would hate to have to do those
diagrams any other way.

So, while it is unfortunate that we do not have an official apa6 template
with LyX, there are LaTeX users who do apa6 (like me). You can use that
class with any document. To get it to work, I basically just copied the LyX
layout file from the apa class and made a few modifications. Then, I
downloaded the apa6 class file and used it. This works reasonably well. By
the way, it is not the APA who decides whether to accept LaTeX or not, it
is each journal individually. Frankly, I think this is sort of a chicken
and the egg problem. If enough users wanted to submit with LaTeX, journals
would accept it, but many won't bother until there are more LaTeX users.
Also, I have found very few people in the social sciences who are even
aware of LaTeX. Not closed minded, just unaware. They use MS Word and
Endnote because they don't know that there are good/better (free)
alternatives.

Jacob

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Ray Rashif]

On 11 December 2012 01:21, Jacob Bishop bishop.ja...@gmail.com wrote:
 have found very few people in the social sciences who are even aware of
 LaTeX. Not closed minded, just unaware. They use MS Word and Endnote because
 they don't know that there are good/better (free) alternatives.

And this stems from the fact that social science has negligible need
for (typesetting) equations, because that's what really sets LaTeX
apart. With MS Word you can configure references, cite them and
arrange your document based on styles. For qualitative/descriptive
papers, that is enough. As such, few people find any need to go out of
their way to look for something better.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[stefano franchi]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Ray Rashif schivmeis...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 11 December 2012 01:21, Jacob Bishop bishop.ja...@gmail.com wrote:
  have found very few people in the social sciences who are even aware of
  LaTeX. Not closed minded, just unaware. They use MS Word and Endnote
 because
  they don't know that there are good/better (free) alternatives.

 And this stems from the fact that social science has negligible need
 for (typesetting) equations, because that's what really sets LaTeX
 apart. With MS Word you can configure references, cite them and
 arrange your document based on styles. For qualitative/descriptive
 papers, that is enough. As such, few people find any need to go out of
 their way to look for something better.


rant
Not true. LyX/Latex's benefits are not limited to typesetting equations
(although it does a much better job that its competition in that area). A
Latex-typeset document looks better in many other respects---from
paragraph-division and typesetting (in spite of recent improvements in
Word's algorithms), to consistent application of style, down to small but
crucial things such as determining font sizes/leading[1].

The reason why Social sciences/Humanities are happy with Word/Endnote is
(historically speaking) different: authors used to submit  Word files (or,
earlier, Wordstar) and the publisher would import and typeset with real
typesetting software. Such programs (and still are) were usually very bad
at typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single formula was
tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. That was
prompted D Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of professional
typesetting software for math, not the similar but irrelevant problem in
word processing program. The lack of equations in the Humanities/Social
Sciences made the traditional process working smooth and insured that the
typographical quality of publications in the fields was high, or at least
acceptable. Authors used primitive (typographically speaking) software,
publishers used real typesetters and everyone was happy.

Except...that desktop publishing happened and publishers started to cut
down on costs by using word as a typesetting program. Even worse, when they
started asking for pdf,  camera-ready  they would provide typographical
specs as series of Word instructions, since they do not know any better
(all the typesetters having long gone). The result is that the vast
majority of Humanities/Social Sciences journal and and increasing number of
Humanities *books*  are now typographically ugly and often barely readable

The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural
sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using
Latex/TeX, the quality of their journal and books was only minimally
affected (although it was: it takes a truly capable typesetter to achieve
high results in Latex--relying on standard classes is only the starting
point. And most authors not named Knuth are not great typesetters).

That's why we in the Humanities are stuck with Word as a publishing
tool---because it used to work well as a drafting tool when the industry
worked differently, not because we do not use equations.

/rant








-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[David L. Johnson]

On 12/10/2012 02:01 PM, stefano franchi wrote:


rant

8
Such programs [Word and Wordstar] (and still are) were usually very 
bad at typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single 
formula was tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. 
That was prompted D Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of 
professional typesetting software for math, not the similar but 
irrelevant problem in word processing program.


Actually, TeX predated Word, and Wordstar (or Wordperfect).  People used 
to run it on DECs.  While there were other math-typsetting (to use the 
phrase loosely) PC programs before TeX became usable on PCs, such as Jim 
Milgram's Techprint which he wrote for Radio-Shack computers with 28K 
ram, most of us used a combination of typewriters and hand-written 
symbols.  A respectable journal would typeset the paper from the 
typewritten copy, but a few insisted on camera-ready --- literally --- 
proofs, which resulted in published papers and books with handwritten 
symbols.  I suspect that Knuth was reacting to that mess rather than 
equations in Word.  I typed my own Ph.D. thesis on an IBM selectric, 
with those interchangeable golf-ball fonts, going over each line 2 or 3 
times.   A nightmare.


I experienced the full range of mathematical text preparation.  I've 
written papers on the typewriter, using hand-drawn symbols and markups 
for a typesetter, Techprint (another nightmare), 2 or 3 PC-based, 
non-graphical programs that produced half-assed output, a couple of 
WYSIWYG programs, plain AMS-TeX using a text editor with occasional 
previews, to LyX.  Clearly the present situation has been the only 
reasonable one.




The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural 
sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using 
Latex/TeX, the quality of their journal and books was only minimally 
affected
With the exception of those journals and texts that were typeset with a 
full array of symbols, the use of TeX has vastly improved the appearance 
of papers (if not the content).  The AMS journals from the 1970s and 
before were works of art, but even most Springer-Verlag monographs were 
truly ugly.


--

David L. Johnson

The motor car reflects our standard of living and gauges the speed of
our present life. It long ago ran down Simple Living, and never halted
to inquire about the prostrate figure which fell as its victim.
-- Warren G. Harding

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Richard Heck]

On 12/10/2012 02:29 PM, David L. Johnson wrote:

On 12/10/2012 02:01 PM, stefano franchi wrote:



The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural 
sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using 
Latex/TeX, the quality of their journal and books was only minimally 
affected


With the exception of those journals and texts that were typeset with 
a full array of symbols, the use of TeX has vastly improved the 
appearance of papers (if not the content).  The AMS journals from the 
1970s and before were works of art, but even most Springer-Verlag 
monographs were truly ugly.


What always amuses me is that there seem to be several journals that 
won't accept LaTeX but then when you get the proofs, it's obvious it's 
LaTeX. You see the filename at the top of the page. Fortunately, there 
seems to be a bit of a trend here, and people will get it figured out.


Richard

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:42 AM,  obregonma...@gmail.com wrote:
 I think people are missing the point here ... Lyx is *great* for writing and 
 getting references and labels right! This goes for APA journals as much as 
 for math/engineering journals.

 I have co-authored several articles for APA journals and the pay-off of 
 writing them in Lyx and then getting them into LaTeX or PDF has been 
 wonderful, especially as I have *not* had to make final typo 
 changes/corrections to the submitted/reviewed article before printing.

 So, *please* keep the APA6 layout and corresponding bibtex referencing 
 up-to-date!

Hi Mateo, John, Ray, Jacob (and everyone else),

It seems APA6 is useful to a lot of people and in particular to you
guys. How about we make a layout for it together then?

I know absolutely nothing about APA6 (or psychology for that matter),
little about layouts, and very little about document classes. But I am
confident that we can do it. Look in your library directory (go to
Help  About if you don't know where it is) and then go to
layouts/apa.layout.
Open it up. It shouldn't look too scary to you. It looks more like
English to me than programming (thank you to the LyX developers who
have made it look so nice and flexible). So this is an opportunity
where even if you don't know/like programming, you can help out.

But wait, that's not all. If we learn the LyX layout format, in
addition to us making an apa6 layout (and thus helping ourselves and
potentially a lot of others), we'll learn how to customize LyX layouts
to our liking. This can be very useful and can make using LyX a lot
more fun and personalized.

The developers around here are extremely nice and generous and would
help us out when we get stuck. But they are involved in a million
things and it's not clear at all to me that they should stop doing
those things in order to make this layout, especially when I'm sure
we're capable of doing it.

Who's in?

Scott

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Rob Oakes]

If you're going to go the customization route, this might be of help:

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/02/custom-lyx-nih

It talks about creating a custom layout for an existing document class.

Related posts with more examples can be found at:

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/14/customize-lyx-character-styles
(Character styles)

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/19/latex-cv-part4
(Second example of how to create a layout for an existing document
class. The other posts in the same series how to write a custom document
class.)

Best of luck in the endeavor!

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Richard Heck]

On 12/10/2012 03:07 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote:

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:42 AM,  obregonma...@gmail.com wrote:

I think people are missing the point here ... Lyx is *great* for writing and 
getting references and labels right! This goes for APA journals as much as for 
math/engineering journals.

I have co-authored several articles for APA journals and the pay-off of writing them in 
Lyx and then getting them into LaTeX or PDF has been wonderful, especially as I have 
*not* had to make final typo changes/corrections to the submitted/reviewed 
article before printing.

So, *please* keep the APA6 layout and corresponding bibtex referencing 
up-to-date!

Hi Mateo, John, Ray, Jacob (and everyone else),

It seems APA6 is useful to a lot of people and in particular to you
guys. How about we make a layout for it together then?

I know absolutely nothing about APA6 (or psychology for that matter),
little about layouts, and very little about document classes. But I am
confident that we can do it. Look in your library directory (go to
Help  About if you don't know where it is) and then go to
layouts/apa.layout.
Open it up. It shouldn't look too scary to you. It looks more like
English to me than programming (thank you to the LyX developers who
have made it look so nice and flexible). So this is an opportunity
where even if you don't know/like programming, you can help out.

But wait, that's not all. If we learn the LyX layout format, in
addition to us making an apa6 layout (and thus helping ourselves and
potentially a lot of others), we'll learn how to customize LyX layouts
to our liking. This can be very useful and can make using LyX a lot
more fun and personalized.

The developers around here are extremely nice and generous and would
help us out when we get stuck. But they are involved in a million
things and it's not clear at all to me that they should stop doing
those things in order to make this layout, especially when I'm sure
we're capable of doing it.

Who's in?
I'm happy to give loads of advice, too. Here's how I'd start: Get some 
kind of example LaTeX file that exercises as much of what APA6 provides 
as is possible. Copy the existing apa.layout file to apa6.layout and 
change the second line to:


#  \DeclareLaTeXClass[apa6]{article (APA v6)}

Now try to load your example file in LyX. What doesn't work will be what 
needs fixing. There will be more to do, as well, but you will get a long 
way just doing that much.


Oh, and I'd avoid the biblatex bits of APA6 for now. Use something like:
ClassOptions
Other natbib
End
to force the use of that option.

Richard

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Ray Rashif]

On 11 December 2012 03:01, stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:
 rant
 Not true. LyX/Latex's benefits are not limited to typesetting equations
 (although it does a much better job that its competition in that area). A
 Latex-typeset document looks better in many other respects---from
 paragraph-division and typesetting (in spite of recent improvements in
 Word's algorithms), to consistent application of style, down to small but
 crucial things such as determining font sizes/leading[1].

 The reason why Social sciences/Humanities are happy with Word/Endnote is
 (historically speaking) different: authors used to submit  Word files (or,
 earlier, Wordstar) and the publisher would import and typeset with real
 typesetting software. Such programs (and still are) were usually very bad at
 typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single formula was
 tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. That was prompted
 D Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of professional typesetting
 software for math, not the similar but irrelevant problem in word processing
 program. The lack of equations in the Humanities/Social Sciences made the
 traditional process working smooth and insured that the typographical
 quality of publications in the fields was high, or at least acceptable.
 Authors used primitive (typographically speaking) software, publishers used
 real typesetters and everyone was happy.

 Except...that desktop publishing happened and publishers started to cut down
 on costs by using word as a typesetting program. Even worse, when they
 started asking for pdf,  camera-ready  they would provide typographical
 specs as series of Word instructions, since they do not know any better (all
 the typesetters having long gone). The result is that the vast majority of
 Humanities/Social Sciences journal and and increasing number of Humanities
 *books*  are now typographically ugly and often barely readable

 The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural
 sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using
 Latex/TeX, the quality of their journal and books was only minimally
 affected (although it was: it takes a truly capable typesetter to achieve
 high results in Latex--relying on standard classes is only the starting
 point. And most authors not named Knuth are not great typesetters).

 That's why we in the Humanities are stuck with Word as a publishing
 tool---because it used to work well as a drafting tool when the industry
 worked differently, not because we do not use equations.

 /rant

Thank you Stefano - that was exactly the background story I was hoping
someone would fill in. My brief statement on equations was just a
layman's generalisation on why faculty would go through the trouble to
suggest LaTeX to students (surely, STEM lecturers would have _more_
reason).

TeX/LaTeX/LyX is definitely not _only_ about equations. I recently
edited and typeset (like you said, no one better than Knuth,
especially not someone who only played with his father's relic
typewriter as a toddler) a social science dissertation completely in
LyX with some LaTeX fiddling.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[stefano franchi]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:29 PM, David L. Johnson
david.john...@lehigh.eduwrote:

 On 12/10/2012 02:01 PM, stefano franchi wrote:


 rant

 8

 Such programs [Word and Wordstar] (and still are) were usually very bad
 at typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single formula was
 tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. That was
 prompted D Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of professional
 typesetting software for math, not the similar but irrelevant problem in
 word processing program.


 Actually, TeX predated Word, and Wordstar (or Wordperfect).  People used
 to run it on DECs.  While there were other math-typsetting (to use the
 phrase loosely) PC programs before TeX became usable on PCs, such as Jim
 Milgram's Techprint which he wrote for Radio-Shack computers with 28K
 ram, most of us used a combination of typewriters and hand-written symbols.
  A respectable journal would typeset the paper from the typewritten copy,
 but a few insisted on camera-ready --- literally --- proofs, which
 resulted in published papers and books with handwritten symbols.  I suspect
 that Knuth was reacting to that mess rather than equations in Word.  I
 typed my own Ph.D. thesis on an IBM selectric, with those interchangeable
 golf-ball fonts, going over each line 2 or 3 times.   A nightmare.


I didn't mean to imply Word (or Wordstar) were used before TeX---just that
Word-equivalent software and/or mechanical devices (i.e. typerwriters: I
wrote my thesis on a Olivetti Lettera 22. And I was an innovator: my
adviser would only handwrite and had a secretary type his books) were the
common first step for both scientists and humanists. The publishers then
took the second and final step using different tools (and sometimes
resorting to handwritten symbols. I remember well that many of may symbolic
logic books in college contained such horrors).
But whereas publishers usually did a good job with humanists' texts, they
often did a terrible one with formulas. Hence, TeX.

When the second step was eliminated, scientists were left with TeX, and we
poor Humanists were left with Word. LyX is our great white hope. Or the
pink one, considering the default background

/really end rant

Cheers,

S.

-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[David L. Johnson]

On 12/10/2012 05:51 PM, stefano franchi wrote:


/really end rant

Cheers,


Hullabaloo, caneck, caneck.

--

David L. Johnson

Become MicroSoft-free forever.  Ask me how.

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 10.12.2012 02:33, schrieb Kayvan Sylvan:


They accept PDF submissions, so I suppose you could use apa6 in LyX if
it's available and export to PDF.


This seems to be the case, but only for supplements as I understood this and TeX is explicitly not 
allowed:

http://www.apa.org/pubs/authors/supp-material.aspx

Maybe I'm wrong and PDfs are also allowed for the main text. If so a layout for APA 6 would indeed 
be useful.


regards Uwe

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[obregonmateo]

Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; these 
journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals in 
psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long as the 
tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do not rely on 
any special latex compiling instructions.

With regards to the link below, it is only referring to file types that can be 
uploaded as supplementary material and *not* addressing in any way what the 
manuscript is prepared in.

Mateo.

On Monday 10 December 2012, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
 Am 10.12.2012 02:33, schrieb Kayvan Sylvan:
 
  They accept PDF submissions, so I suppose you could use apa6 in LyX if
  it's available and export to PDF.
 
 This seems to be the case, but only for supplements as I understood this and 
 TeX is explicitly not 
 allowed:
 http://www.apa.org/pubs/authors/supp-material.aspx
 
 Maybe I'm wrong and PDfs are also allowed for the main text. If so a layout 
 for APA 6 would indeed 
 be useful.
 
 regards Uwe
 

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 11.12.2012 01:14, schrieb obregonma...@gmail.com:


Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; these 
journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals in 
psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long as the 
tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do not rely on 
any special latex compiling instructions.


Thanks for the clarification. So a layout for APA  6 is indeed useful.  However, I won't have time 
to write it and hope that anybody else can volunteer. if you like, I can review the layout.


thanks and regards
Uwe

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[obregonmateo]

Thanks Uwe for offering to review a layout for APA6.

Others here are also interested in making this work, so I'm sure we'll have 
something soon for you to look at.

Mateo.

On Tuesday 11 December 2012, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
 Am 11.12.2012 01:14, schrieb obregonma...@gmail.com:
 
  Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; 
  these journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals 
  in psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long 
  as the tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do 
  not rely on any special latex compiling instructions.
 
 Thanks for the clarification. So a layout for APA  6 is indeed useful.  
 However, I won't have time 
 to write it and hope that anybody else can volunteer. if you like, I can 
 review the layout.
 
 thanks and regards
 Uwe
 

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Richard Heck]

On 12/09/2012 10:27 PM, David L. Johnson wrote:

On 12/09/2012 07:23 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal 
submission class you cannot use for submission to that journal? Why 
should we invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?


My understanding is that APA is used by a wide range of humanistic and 
social sciences publications.  It is possible that some of them would 
indeed accept Latex (though maybe not likely), and others might well 
accept pdf files, as limiting as that may seem.


And some people might want to use the APA class for their own reasons, 
or maybe the APA will decide to start accepting LaTeX again, or who 
knows what. The point was that if someone wants to write an updated 
layout file, they can do so, and we'll be happy to include it with LyX. 
But it probably does seem like something that's not very pressing.


Richard

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[obregonmateo]

I think people are missing the point here ... Lyx is *great* for writing and 
getting references and labels right! This goes for APA journals as much as for 
math/engineering journals.

I have co-authored several articles for APA journals and the pay-off of writing 
them in Lyx and then getting them into LaTeX or PDF has been wonderful, 
especially as I have *not* had to make final "typo" changes/corrections to the 
submitted/reviewed article before printing.

So, *please* keep the APA6 layout and corresponding bibtex referencing 
up-to-date!

Mateo.

On Monday 10 December 2012, Richard Heck wrote:
> On 12/09/2012 10:27 PM, David L. Johnson wrote:
> > On 12/09/2012 07:23 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
> >> I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal 
> >> submission class you cannot use for submission to that journal? Why 
> >> should we invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?
> >
> > My understanding is that APA is used by a wide range of humanistic and 
> > social sciences publications.  It is possible that some of them would 
> > indeed accept Latex (though maybe not likely), and others might well 
> > accept pdf files, as limiting as that may seem.
> >
> And some people might want to use the APA class for their own reasons, 
> or maybe the APA will decide to start accepting LaTeX again, or who 
> knows what. The point was that if someone wants to write an updated 
> layout file, they can do so, and we'll be happy to include it with LyX. 
> But it probably does seem like something that's not very pressing.
> 
> Richard
> 
> 

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Jacob Bishop]

I recently shifted from Engineering to Psychology (actually Engineering
Education, but I am currently preparing a publication for an APA journal).
I used LyX for my masters' thesis, and LaTeX is the only acceptable thesis
format for some of the Engineering departments. When professors started
requiring that I write my papers using APA6, I quickly tried to figure out
how that could be done with LyX. I was not about to abandon my favorite
document preparation system for nothing. I have found there are basically
two routes you can go. There is an apa6e class and an apa6 class. The apa6e
class is a minimal class that incorporates apa6 guidelines for formatting
titles, but leaves references and things to the user to configure. The apa6
class is a bit more thorough. It is an updated version of the apa class and
as such has three modes for preparing an article. It adheres fairly
strictly to apa guidelines and the reference format is hard-coded. I
recently had to borrow some code from this class and combine it with the
Engineering dissertation template from my u to get a suitable dissertation
format that makes both the college of Engineering, and the department (of
Engineering Education) happy. I would also mention that for the publication
I am preparing, we use structural equation diagrams that I prepare with
TikZ and go right into the LyX document. I would hate to have to do those
diagrams any other way.

So, while it is unfortunate that we do not have an official apa6 template
with LyX, there are LaTeX users who do apa6 (like me). You can use that
class with any document. To get it to work, I basically just copied the LyX
layout file from the apa class and made a few modifications. Then, I
downloaded the apa6 class file and used it. This works reasonably well. By
the way, it is not the APA who decides whether to accept LaTeX or not, it
is each journal individually. Frankly, I think this is sort of a chicken
and the egg problem. If enough users wanted to submit with LaTeX, journals
would accept it, but many won't bother until there are more LaTeX users.
Also, I have found very few people in the social sciences who are even
aware of LaTeX. Not closed minded, just unaware. They use MS Word and
Endnote because they don't know that there are good/better (free)
alternatives.

Jacob

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Ray Rashif]

On 11 December 2012 01:21, Jacob Bishop  wrote:
> have found very few people in the social sciences who are even aware of
> LaTeX. Not closed minded, just unaware. They use MS Word and Endnote because
> they don't know that there are good/better (free) alternatives.

And this stems from the fact that social science has negligible need
for (typesetting) equations, because that's what really sets LaTeX
apart. With MS Word you can configure references, cite them and
arrange your document based on styles. For qualitative/descriptive
papers, that is enough. As such, few people find any need to go out of
their way to look for something better.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[stefano franchi]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Ray Rashif  wrote:

> On 11 December 2012 01:21, Jacob Bishop  wrote:
> > have found very few people in the social sciences who are even aware of
> > LaTeX. Not closed minded, just unaware. They use MS Word and Endnote
> because
> > they don't know that there are good/better (free) alternatives.
>
> And this stems from the fact that social science has negligible need
> for (typesetting) equations, because that's what really sets LaTeX
> apart. With MS Word you can configure references, cite them and
> arrange your document based on styles. For qualitative/descriptive
> papers, that is enough. As such, few people find any need to go out of
> their way to look for something better.
>
>

Not true. LyX/Latex's benefits are not limited to typesetting equations
(although it does a much better job that its competition in that area). A
Latex-typeset document looks better in many other respects---from
paragraph-division and typesetting (in spite of recent improvements in
Word's algorithms), to consistent application of style, down to small but
crucial things such as determining font sizes/leading[1].

The reason why Social sciences/Humanities are happy with Word/Endnote is
(historically speaking) different: authors used to submit  Word files (or,
earlier, Wordstar) and the publisher would import and typeset with real
typesetting software. Such programs (and still are) were usually very bad
at typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single formula was
tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. That was
prompted D Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of professional
typesetting software for math, not the similar but irrelevant problem in
word processing program. The lack of equations in the Humanities/Social
Sciences made the traditional process working smooth and insured that the
typographical quality of publications in the fields was high, or at least
acceptable. Authors used primitive (typographically speaking) software,
publishers used real typesetters and everyone was happy.

Except...that desktop publishing happened and publishers started to cut
down on costs by using word as a typesetting program. Even worse, when they
started asking for pdf,  camera-ready  they would provide typographical
specs as series of Word instructions, since they do not know any better
(all the typesetters having long gone). The result is that the vast
majority of Humanities/Social Sciences journal and and increasing number of
Humanities *books*  are now typographically ugly and often barely readable

The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural
sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using
Latex/TeX, the quality of their journal and books was only minimally
affected (although it was: it takes a truly capable typesetter to achieve
high results in Latex--relying on standard classes is only the starting
point. And most authors not named Knuth are not great typesetters).

That's why we in the Humanities are stuck with Word as a publishing
tool---because it used to work well as a drafting tool when the industry
worked differently, not because we do not use equations.










-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas A University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[David L. Johnson]

On 12/10/2012 02:01 PM, stefano franchi wrote:




8<
Such programs [Word and Wordstar] (and still are) were usually very 
bad at typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single 
formula was tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. 
That was prompted D Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of 
professional typesetting software for math, not the similar but 
irrelevant problem in word processing program.


Actually, TeX predated Word, and Wordstar (or Wordperfect).  People used 
to run it on DECs.  While there were other math-typsetting (to use the 
phrase loosely) PC programs before TeX became usable on PCs, such as Jim 
Milgram's "Techprint" which he wrote for Radio-Shack computers with 28K 
ram, most of us used a combination of typewriters and hand-written 
symbols.  A respectable journal would typeset the paper from the 
typewritten copy, but a few insisted on "camera-ready" --- literally --- 
proofs, which resulted in published papers and books with handwritten 
symbols.  I suspect that Knuth was reacting to that mess rather than 
equations in Word.  I typed my own Ph.D. thesis on an IBM selectric, 
with those interchangeable golf-ball fonts, going over each line 2 or 3 
times.   A nightmare.


I experienced the full range of mathematical text preparation.  I've 
written papers on the typewriter, using hand-drawn symbols and markups 
for a typesetter, Techprint (another nightmare), 2 or 3 PC-based, 
non-graphical programs that produced half-assed output, a couple of 
WYSIWYG programs, plain AMS-TeX using a text editor with occasional 
previews, to LyX.  Clearly the present situation has been the only 
reasonable one.




The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural 
sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using 
Latex/TeX, the quality of their journal and books was only minimally 
affected
With the exception of those journals and texts that were typeset with a 
full array of symbols, the use of TeX has vastly improved the appearance 
of papers (if not the content).  The AMS journals from the 1970s and 
before were works of art, but even most Springer-Verlag monographs were 
truly ugly.


--

David L. Johnson

The motor car reflects our standard of living and gauges the speed of
our present life. It long ago ran down Simple Living, and never halted
to inquire about the prostrate figure which fell as its victim.
-- Warren G. Harding

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Richard Heck]

On 12/10/2012 02:29 PM, David L. Johnson wrote:

On 12/10/2012 02:01 PM, stefano franchi wrote:



The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural 
sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using 
Latex/TeX, the quality of their journal and books was only minimally 
affected


With the exception of those journals and texts that were typeset with 
a full array of symbols, the use of TeX has vastly improved the 
appearance of papers (if not the content).  The AMS journals from the 
1970s and before were works of art, but even most Springer-Verlag 
monographs were truly ugly.


What always amuses me is that there seem to be several journals that 
won't accept LaTeX but then when you get the proofs, it's obvious it's 
LaTeX. You see the filename at the top of the page. Fortunately, there 
seems to be a bit of a trend here, and people will get it figured out.


Richard

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:42 AM,   wrote:
> I think people are missing the point here ... Lyx is *great* for writing and 
> getting references and labels right! This goes for APA journals as much as 
> for math/engineering journals.
>
> I have co-authored several articles for APA journals and the pay-off of 
> writing them in Lyx and then getting them into LaTeX or PDF has been 
> wonderful, especially as I have *not* had to make final "typo" 
> changes/corrections to the submitted/reviewed article before printing.
>
> So, *please* keep the APA6 layout and corresponding bibtex referencing 
> up-to-date!

Hi Mateo, John, Ray, Jacob (and everyone else),

It seems APA6 is useful to a lot of people and in particular to you
guys. How about we make a layout for it together then?

I know absolutely nothing about APA6 (or psychology for that matter),
little about layouts, and very little about document classes. But I am
confident that we can do it. Look in your library directory (go to
Help > About if you don't know where it is) and then go to
layouts/apa.layout.
Open it up. It shouldn't look too scary to you. It looks more like
English to me than programming (thank you to the LyX developers who
have made it look so nice and flexible). So this is an opportunity
where even if you don't know/like programming, you can help out.

But wait, that's not all. If we learn the LyX layout format, in
addition to us making an apa6 layout (and thus helping ourselves and
potentially a lot of others), we'll learn how to customize LyX layouts
to our liking. This can be very useful and can make using LyX a lot
more fun and personalized.

The developers around here are extremely nice and generous and would
help us out when we get stuck. But they are involved in a million
things and it's not clear at all to me that they should stop doing
those things in order to make this layout, especially when I'm sure
we're capable of doing it.

Who's in?

Scott

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Rob Oakes]

If you're going to go the customization route, this might be of help:

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/02/custom-lyx-nih

It talks about creating a custom layout for an existing document class.

Related posts with more examples can be found at:

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/14/customize-lyx-character-styles
(Character styles)

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/19/latex-cv-part4
(Second example of how to create a layout for an existing document
class. The other posts in the same series how to write a custom document
class.)

Best of luck in the endeavor!

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Richard Heck]

On 12/10/2012 03:07 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote:

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:42 AM,   wrote:

I think people are missing the point here ... Lyx is *great* for writing and 
getting references and labels right! This goes for APA journals as much as for 
math/engineering journals.

I have co-authored several articles for APA journals and the pay-off of writing them in 
Lyx and then getting them into LaTeX or PDF has been wonderful, especially as I have 
*not* had to make final "typo" changes/corrections to the submitted/reviewed 
article before printing.

So, *please* keep the APA6 layout and corresponding bibtex referencing 
up-to-date!

Hi Mateo, John, Ray, Jacob (and everyone else),

It seems APA6 is useful to a lot of people and in particular to you
guys. How about we make a layout for it together then?

I know absolutely nothing about APA6 (or psychology for that matter),
little about layouts, and very little about document classes. But I am
confident that we can do it. Look in your library directory (go to
Help > About if you don't know where it is) and then go to
layouts/apa.layout.
Open it up. It shouldn't look too scary to you. It looks more like
English to me than programming (thank you to the LyX developers who
have made it look so nice and flexible). So this is an opportunity
where even if you don't know/like programming, you can help out.

But wait, that's not all. If we learn the LyX layout format, in
addition to us making an apa6 layout (and thus helping ourselves and
potentially a lot of others), we'll learn how to customize LyX layouts
to our liking. This can be very useful and can make using LyX a lot
more fun and personalized.

The developers around here are extremely nice and generous and would
help us out when we get stuck. But they are involved in a million
things and it's not clear at all to me that they should stop doing
those things in order to make this layout, especially when I'm sure
we're capable of doing it.

Who's in?
I'm happy to give loads of advice, too. Here's how I'd start: Get some 
kind of example LaTeX file that exercises as much of what APA6 provides 
as is possible. Copy the existing apa.layout file to apa6.layout and 
change the second line to:


#  \DeclareLaTeXClass[apa6]{article (APA v6)}

Now try to load your example file in LyX. What doesn't work will be what 
needs fixing. There will be more to do, as well, but you will get a long 
way just doing that much.


Oh, and I'd avoid the biblatex bits of APA6 for now. Use something like:
ClassOptions
Other "natbib"
End
to force the use of that option.

Richard

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Ray Rashif]

On 11 December 2012 03:01, stefano franchi  wrote:
> 
> Not true. LyX/Latex's benefits are not limited to typesetting equations
> (although it does a much better job that its competition in that area). A
> Latex-typeset document looks better in many other respects---from
> paragraph-division and typesetting (in spite of recent improvements in
> Word's algorithms), to consistent application of style, down to small but
> crucial things such as determining font sizes/leading[1].
>
> The reason why Social sciences/Humanities are happy with Word/Endnote is
> (historically speaking) different: authors used to submit  Word files (or,
> earlier, Wordstar) and the publisher would import and typeset with real
> typesetting software. Such programs (and still are) were usually very bad at
> typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single formula was
> tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. That was prompted
> D Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of professional typesetting
> software for math, not the similar but irrelevant problem in word processing
> program. The lack of equations in the Humanities/Social Sciences made the
> traditional process working smooth and insured that the typographical
> quality of publications in the fields was high, or at least acceptable.
> Authors used primitive (typographically speaking) software, publishers used
> real typesetters and everyone was happy.
>
> Except...that desktop publishing happened and publishers started to cut down
> on costs by using word as a typesetting program. Even worse, when they
> started asking for pdf,  camera-ready  they would provide typographical
> specs as series of Word instructions, since they do not know any better (all
> the typesetters having long gone). The result is that the vast majority of
> Humanities/Social Sciences journal and and increasing number of Humanities
> *books*  are now typographically ugly and often barely readable
>
> The same radical cost-cutting  measures took place  in the Natural
> sciences/Engineering, of course. But since *they* were already using
> Latex/TeX, the quality of their journal and books was only minimally
> affected (although it was: it takes a truly capable typesetter to achieve
> high results in Latex--relying on standard classes is only the starting
> point. And most authors not named Knuth are not great typesetters).
>
> That's why we in the Humanities are stuck with Word as a publishing
> tool---because it used to work well as a drafting tool when the industry
> worked differently, not because we do not use equations.
>
> 

Thank you Stefano - that was exactly the background story I was hoping
someone would fill in. My brief statement on equations was just a
layman's generalisation on why faculty would go through the trouble to
suggest LaTeX to students (surely, STEM lecturers would have _more_
reason).

TeX/LaTeX/LyX is definitely not _only_ about equations. I recently
edited and "typeset" (like you said, no one better than Knuth,
especially not someone who only played with his father's relic
typewriter as a toddler) a social science dissertation completely in
LyX with some LaTeX fiddling.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[stefano franchi]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:29 PM, David L. Johnson
wrote:

> On 12/10/2012 02:01 PM, stefano franchi wrote:
>
>>
>> 
>>
> 8<
>
>> Such programs [Word and Wordstar] (and still are) were usually very bad
>> at typesetting complex mathematical formulas unless each single formula was
>> tweaked by hand, a very painful and expensive proposition. That was
>> prompted D Knuth to invent TeX---the poor quality of professional
>> typesetting software for math, not the similar but irrelevant problem in
>> word processing program.
>>
>
> Actually, TeX predated Word, and Wordstar (or Wordperfect).  People used
> to run it on DECs.  While there were other math-typsetting (to use the
> phrase loosely) PC programs before TeX became usable on PCs, such as Jim
> Milgram's "Techprint" which he wrote for Radio-Shack computers with 28K
> ram, most of us used a combination of typewriters and hand-written symbols.
>  A respectable journal would typeset the paper from the typewritten copy,
> but a few insisted on "camera-ready" --- literally --- proofs, which
> resulted in published papers and books with handwritten symbols.  I suspect
> that Knuth was reacting to that mess rather than equations in Word.  I
> typed my own Ph.D. thesis on an IBM selectric, with those interchangeable
> golf-ball fonts, going over each line 2 or 3 times.   A nightmare.
>
>
I didn't mean to imply Word (or Wordstar) were used before TeX---just that
Word-equivalent software and/or mechanical devices (i.e. typerwriters: I
wrote my thesis on a Olivetti Lettera 22. And I was an innovator: my
adviser would only handwrite and had a secretary type his books) were the
common first step for both scientists and humanists. The publishers then
took the second and final step using different tools (and sometimes
resorting to handwritten symbols. I remember well that many of may symbolic
logic books in college contained such horrors).
But whereas publishers usually did a good job with humanists' texts, they
often did a terrible one with formulas. Hence, TeX.

When the second step was eliminated, scientists were left with TeX, and we
poor Humanists were left with Word. LyX is our great white hope. Or the
pink one, considering the default background



Cheers,

S.

-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas A University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[David L. Johnson]

On 12/10/2012 05:51 PM, stefano franchi wrote:




Cheers,


Hullabaloo, caneck, caneck.

--

David L. Johnson

Become MicroSoft-free forever.  Ask me how.

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 10.12.2012 02:33, schrieb Kayvan Sylvan:


They accept PDF submissions, so I suppose you could use apa6 in LyX if
it's available and export to PDF.


This seems to be the case, but only for supplements as I understood this and TeX is explicitly not 
allowed:

http://www.apa.org/pubs/authors/supp-material.aspx

Maybe I'm wrong and PDfs are also allowed for the main text. If so a layout for APA 6 would indeed 
be useful.


regards Uwe

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[obregonmateo]

Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; these 
journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals in 
psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long as the 
tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do not rely on 
any special latex compiling instructions.

With regards to the link below, it is only referring to file types that can be 
uploaded as "supplementary material" and *not* addressing in any way what the 
manuscript is prepared in.

Mateo.

On Monday 10 December 2012, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
> Am 10.12.2012 02:33, schrieb Kayvan Sylvan:
> 
> > They accept PDF submissions, so I suppose you could use apa6 in LyX if
> > it's available and export to PDF.
> 
> This seems to be the case, but only for supplements as I understood this and 
> TeX is explicitly not 
> allowed:
> http://www.apa.org/pubs/authors/supp-material.aspx
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong and PDfs are also allowed for the main text. If so a layout 
> for APA 6 would indeed 
> be useful.
> 
> regards Uwe
> 

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 11.12.2012 01:14, schrieb obregonma...@gmail.com:


Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; these 
journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals in 
psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long as the 
tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do not rely on 
any special latex compiling instructions.


Thanks for the clarification. So a layout for APA  6 is indeed useful.  However, I won't have time 
to write it and hope that anybody else can volunteer. if you like, I can review the layout.


thanks and regards
Uwe

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[obregonmateo]

Thanks Uwe for offering to review a layout for APA6.

Others here are also interested in making this work, so I'm sure we'll have 
something soon for you to look at.

Mateo.

On Tuesday 11 December 2012, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
> Am 11.12.2012 01:14, schrieb obregonma...@gmail.com:
> 
> > Each APA-type journal has its own list of document types that it accepts; 
> > these journals are only guided by the APA _style_ conventions. All journals 
> > in psychology etc. that I have come across accept tex manuscripts, as long 
> > as the tex file contains everything the authors use (i.e., macros) and do 
> > not rely on any special latex compiling instructions.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. So a layout for APA  6 is indeed useful.  
> However, I won't have time 
> to write it and hope that anybody else can volunteer. if you like, I can 
> review the layout.
> 
> thanks and regards
> Uwe
> 

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

Thanks for the replies.  While I understand the point in the last comment at 
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187 it is a pity.  I believe I have seen a 
reference, possibly in APA5 or APA6 tthat suggests that well over 1,000 
journals use APA Style , or some reasonable facsimile thereof. 



Who knows how many academic institutions and fields of study require it? In 
fact, it was a nursing student's request that prompted my question. Nursing 
uses APA?   Anyway I did a few updates to an OpenOffice.org APA 5 template that 
seems to be okay for student use with APA 6 and passed it on but it  seems a 
shame not to catch a few users while they're young. 




 From: José Matos jama...@lyx.org
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 1:49:24 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?
 
On 12/08/2012 04:45 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@inbox.com wrote:

 Hi John,

 Would anyone know of any work being done on this?
 No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the reason why:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187

 And see this ticket for the main request:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391

 Best,

 Scott

With that said if we had a layout for apa6 contributed we would accept
it. So just because no one is working on it that is not a reason for
despair. :-)

-- 
José Matos

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

Thanks Scot and Ray.  Pity.

John Kane
Kingston ON Canada


 -Original Message-
 From: schivmeis...@gmail.com
 Sent: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 02:02:01 +0800
 To: skost...@lyx.org
 Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?
 
 On 9 December 2012 00:45, Scott Kostyshak skost...@lyx.org wrote:
 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@inbox.com wrote:
 
 Hi John,
 
 Would anyone know of any work being done on this?
 
 No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the
 reason why:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187
 
 And see this ticket for the main request:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391
 
 Best,
 
 Scott
 
 I came across this recently as I was searching for some answers but
 this is only LaTeX-specific:
 mirror.hmc.edu/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/apa6/apa6.pdf
 
 May help to understand the situation at least.
 
 
 --
 GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1


FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks  orcas on your 
desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 09.12.2012 15:27, schrieb John Kane:

Thanks for the replies.  While I understand the point in the last comment at
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187 it is a pity.  I believe I have seen a 
reference, possibly in APA5 or APA6 that suggests that well over 1,000 journals 
use APA Style , or some reasonable facsimile thereof.


Fine, but what should we do? If APA is no longer accepting LaTeX you will have to use LibreOffice or 
something similar instead of LyX.



 With that said if we had a layout for apa6 contributed we would accept

it. So just because no one is working on it that is not a reason for
despair. :-)


I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal submission class you cannot use 
for submission to that journal? Why should we invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?


regards Uwe

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Kayvan Sylvan]

They accept PDF submissions, so I suppose you could use apa6 in LyX if
it's available and export to PDF.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 9, 2012, at 16:24, Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@web.de wrote:

 Am 09.12.2012 15:27, schrieb John Kane:
 Thanks for the replies.  While I understand the point in the last comment at
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187 it is a pity.  I believe I have seen a 
 reference, possibly in APA5 or APA6 that suggests that well over 1,000 
 journals use APA Style , or some reasonable facsimile thereof.

 Fine, but what should we do? If APA is no longer accepting LaTeX you will 
 have to use LibreOffice or something similar instead of LyX.

  With that said if we had a layout for apa6 contributed we would accept
 it. So just because no one is working on it that is not a reason for
 despair. :-)

 I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal 
 submission class you cannot use for submission to that journal? Why should we 
 invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?

 regards Uwe

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[David L. Johnson]

On 12/09/2012 07:23 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal 
submission class you cannot use for submission to that journal? Why 
should we invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?


My understanding is that APA is used by a wide range of humanistic and 
social sciences publications.  It is possible that some of them would 
indeed accept Latex (though maybe not likely), and others might well 
accept pdf files, as limiting as that may seem.


OTOH, I don't write for any such publications; those I do write for 
usually insist on Latex.  I also have no idea whether this has any 
relevance outside of the US.


--

David L. Johnson
Department of Mathematics
Lehigh University

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

Thanks for the replies.  While I understand the point in the last comment at 
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187 it is a pity.  I believe I have seen a 
reference, possibly in APA5 or APA6 tthat suggests that well over 1,000 
journals use APA Style , or some reasonable facsimile thereof. 



Who knows how many academic institutions and fields of study require it? In 
fact, it was a nursing student's request that prompted my question. Nursing 
uses APA?   Anyway I did a few updates to an OpenOffice.org APA 5 template that 
seems to be okay for student use with APA 6 and passed it on but it  seems a 
shame not to catch a few users while they're young. 




 From: José Matos jama...@lyx.org
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 1:49:24 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?
 
On 12/08/2012 04:45 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@inbox.com wrote:

 Hi John,

 Would anyone know of any work being done on this?
 No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the reason why:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187

 And see this ticket for the main request:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391

 Best,

 Scott

With that said if we had a layout for apa6 contributed we would accept
it. So just because no one is working on it that is not a reason for
despair. :-)

-- 
José Matos

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

Thanks Scot and Ray.  Pity.

John Kane
Kingston ON Canada


 -Original Message-
 From: schivmeis...@gmail.com
 Sent: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 02:02:01 +0800
 To: skost...@lyx.org
 Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?
 
 On 9 December 2012 00:45, Scott Kostyshak skost...@lyx.org wrote:
 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@inbox.com wrote:
 
 Hi John,
 
 Would anyone know of any work being done on this?
 
 No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the
 reason why:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187
 
 And see this ticket for the main request:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391
 
 Best,
 
 Scott
 
 I came across this recently as I was searching for some answers but
 this is only LaTeX-specific:
 mirror.hmc.edu/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/apa6/apa6.pdf
 
 May help to understand the situation at least.
 
 
 --
 GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1


FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks  orcas on your 
desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 09.12.2012 15:27, schrieb John Kane:

Thanks for the replies.  While I understand the point in the last comment at
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187 it is a pity.  I believe I have seen a 
reference, possibly in APA5 or APA6 that suggests that well over 1,000 journals 
use APA Style , or some reasonable facsimile thereof.


Fine, but what should we do? If APA is no longer accepting LaTeX you will have to use LibreOffice or 
something similar instead of LyX.



 With that said if we had a layout for apa6 contributed we would accept

it. So just because no one is working on it that is not a reason for
despair. :-)


I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal submission class you cannot use 
for submission to that journal? Why should we invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?


regards Uwe

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Kayvan Sylvan]

They accept PDF submissions, so I suppose you could use apa6 in LyX if
it's available and export to PDF.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 9, 2012, at 16:24, Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@web.de wrote:

 Am 09.12.2012 15:27, schrieb John Kane:
 Thanks for the replies.  While I understand the point in the last comment at
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187 it is a pity.  I believe I have seen a 
 reference, possibly in APA5 or APA6 that suggests that well over 1,000 
 journals use APA Style , or some reasonable facsimile thereof.

 Fine, but what should we do? If APA is no longer accepting LaTeX you will 
 have to use LibreOffice or something similar instead of LyX.

  With that said if we had a layout for apa6 contributed we would accept
 it. So just because no one is working on it that is not a reason for
 despair. :-)

 I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal 
 submission class you cannot use for submission to that journal? Why should we 
 invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?

 regards Uwe

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[David L. Johnson]

On 12/09/2012 07:23 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal 
submission class you cannot use for submission to that journal? Why 
should we invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?


My understanding is that APA is used by a wide range of humanistic and 
social sciences publications.  It is possible that some of them would 
indeed accept Latex (though maybe not likely), and others might well 
accept pdf files, as limiting as that may seem.


OTOH, I don't write for any such publications; those I do write for 
usually insist on Latex.  I also have no idea whether this has any 
relevance outside of the US.


--

David L. Johnson
Department of Mathematics
Lehigh University

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

Thanks for the replies.  While I understand the point in the last comment at 
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187 it is a pity.  I believe I have seen a 
reference, possibly in APA5 or APA6 tthat suggests that well over 1,000 
journals use APA Style , or some reasonable facsimile thereof. 



Who knows how many academic institutions and fields of study require it? In 
fact, it was a nursing student's request that prompted my question. Nursing 
uses APA?   Anyway I did a few updates to an OpenOffice.org APA 5 template that 
seems to be okay for student use with APA 6 and passed it on but it  seems a 
shame not to catch a few users while they're young. 




 From: José Matos <jama...@lyx.org>
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 1:49:24 PM
Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?
 
On 12/08/2012 04:45 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane <jrkrid...@inbox.com> wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
>> Would anyone know of any work being done on this?
> No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the reason why:
> http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187
>
> And see this ticket for the main request:
> http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391
>
> Best,
>
> Scott

With that said if we had a layout for apa6 contributed we would accept
it. So just because no one is working on it that is not a reason for
despair. :-)

-- 
José Matos

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

Thanks Scot and Ray.  Pity.

John Kane
Kingston ON Canada


> -Original Message-
> From: schivmeis...@gmail.com
> Sent: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 02:02:01 +0800
> To: skost...@lyx.org
> Subject: Re: APA6 class with LyX?
> 
> On 9 December 2012 00:45, Scott Kostyshak <skost...@lyx.org> wrote:
>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane <jrkrid...@inbox.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi John,
>> 
>>> Would anyone know of any work being done on this?
>> 
>> No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the
>> reason why:
>> http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187
>> 
>> And see this ticket for the main request:
>> http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Scott
> 
> I came across this recently as I was searching for some answers but
> this is only LaTeX-specific:
> mirror.hmc.edu/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/apa6/apa6.pdf
> 
> May help to understand the situation at least.
> 
> 
> --
> GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1


FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your 
desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 09.12.2012 15:27, schrieb John Kane:

Thanks for the replies.  While I understand the point in the last comment at
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187 it is a pity.  I believe I have seen a 
reference, possibly in APA5 or APA6 that suggests that well over 1,000 journals 
use APA Style , or some reasonable facsimile thereof.


Fine, but what should we do? If APA is no longer accepting LaTeX you will have to use LibreOffice or 
something similar instead of LyX.



> With that said if we had a layout for apa6 contributed we would accept

it. So just because no one is working on it that is not a reason for
despair. :-)


I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal submission class you cannot use 
for submission to that journal? Why should we invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?


regards Uwe

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Kayvan Sylvan]

They accept PDF submissions, so I suppose you could use apa6 in LyX if
it's available and export to PDF.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 9, 2012, at 16:24, "Uwe Stöhr"  wrote:

> Am 09.12.2012 15:27, schrieb John Kane:
>> Thanks for the replies.  While I understand the point in the last comment at
>> http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187 it is a pity.  I believe I have seen a 
>> reference, possibly in APA5 or APA6 that suggests that well over 1,000 
>> journals use APA Style , or some reasonable facsimile thereof.
>
> Fine, but what should we do? If APA is no longer accepting LaTeX you will 
> have to use LibreOffice or something similar instead of LyX.
>
>> > With that said if we had a layout for apa6 contributed we would accept
>>> it. So just because no one is working on it that is not a reason for
>>> despair. :-)
>
> I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal 
> submission class you cannot use for submission to that journal? Why should we 
> invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?
>
> regards Uwe

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[David L. Johnson]

On 12/09/2012 07:23 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
I am opposed to this. What is the benefit of a layout for a journal 
submission class you cannot use for submission to that journal? Why 
should we invest time to write and, more important, to maintain it?


My understanding is that APA is used by a wide range of humanistic and 
social sciences publications.  It is possible that some of them would 
indeed accept Latex (though maybe not likely), and others might well 
accept pdf files, as limiting as that may seem.


OTOH, I don't write for any such publications; those I do write for 
usually insist on Latex.  I also have no idea whether this has any 
relevance outside of the US.


--

David L. Johnson
Department of Mathematics
Lehigh University

APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

Some time ago the American Psychological Association came out with the 6th 
edition of its publication manual.  There is a apa6 class for Latex:m  See 
http://www.findbestopensource.com/product/apa6e for a quick ref.

So far I have not seen anythimg much about a layout for LyX other than a note 
from about October of 2012 saying that there is no Lyx layout.  

Would anyone know of any work being done on this?  I don't really need it 
myself as while I tend to use APA style I'm not submitting papers either for 
publication nor in a class that demands APA but I couple of times recently I 
have wanted to be able to recommend Lyx for a student who needs it and could 
not.  There is just enough difference between apa and apa6 that it would not be 
practical for a novice to even think of using LyX.

Thanks

John Kane
Kingston ON Canada


GET FREE SMILEYS FOR YOUR IM  EMAIL - Learn more at 
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webmails

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@inbox.com wrote:

Hi John,

 Would anyone know of any work being done on this?

No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the reason why:
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187

And see this ticket for the main request:
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391

Best,

Scott

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Ray Rashif]

On 9 December 2012 00:45, Scott Kostyshak skost...@lyx.org wrote:
 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@inbox.com wrote:

 Hi John,

 Would anyone know of any work being done on this?

 No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the reason why:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187

 And see this ticket for the main request:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391

 Best,

 Scott

I came across this recently as I was searching for some answers but
this is only LaTeX-specific:
mirror.hmc.edu/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/apa6/apa6.pdf

May help to understand the situation at least.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[José Matos]

On 12/08/2012 04:45 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@inbox.com wrote:

 Hi John,

 Would anyone know of any work being done on this?
 No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the reason why:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187

 And see this ticket for the main request:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391

 Best,

 Scott

With that said if we had a layout for apa6 contributed we would accept
it. So just because no one is working on it that is not a reason for
despair. :-)

-- 
José Matos

APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

Some time ago the American Psychological Association came out with the 6th 
edition of its publication manual.  There is a apa6 class for Latex:m  See 
http://www.findbestopensource.com/product/apa6e for a quick ref.

So far I have not seen anythimg much about a layout for LyX other than a note 
from about October of 2012 saying that there is no Lyx layout.  

Would anyone know of any work being done on this?  I don't really need it 
myself as while I tend to use APA style I'm not submitting papers either for 
publication nor in a class that demands APA but I couple of times recently I 
have wanted to be able to recommend Lyx for a student who needs it and could 
not.  There is just enough difference between apa and apa6 that it would not be 
practical for a novice to even think of using LyX.

Thanks

John Kane
Kingston ON Canada


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http://www.inbox.com/smileys
Works with AIM®, MSN® Messenger, Yahoo!® Messenger, ICQ®, Google Talk™ and most 
webmails

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@inbox.com wrote:

Hi John,

 Would anyone know of any work being done on this?

No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the reason why:
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187

And see this ticket for the main request:
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391

Best,

Scott

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Ray Rashif]

On 9 December 2012 00:45, Scott Kostyshak skost...@lyx.org wrote:
 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@inbox.com wrote:

 Hi John,

 Would anyone know of any work being done on this?

 No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the reason why:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187

 And see this ticket for the main request:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391

 Best,

 Scott

I came across this recently as I was searching for some answers but
this is only LaTeX-specific:
mirror.hmc.edu/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/apa6/apa6.pdf

May help to understand the situation at least.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[José Matos]

On 12/08/2012 04:45 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@inbox.com wrote:

 Hi John,

 Would anyone know of any work being done on this?
 No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the reason why:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187

 And see this ticket for the main request:
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391

 Best,

 Scott

With that said if we had a layout for apa6 contributed we would accept
it. So just because no one is working on it that is not a reason for
despair. :-)

-- 
José Matos

APA6 class with LyX?

[John Kane]

Some time ago the American Psychological Association came out with the 6th 
edition of its publication manual.  There is a apa6 class for Latex:m  See 
http://www.findbestopensource.com/product/apa6e for a quick ref.

So far I have not seen anythimg much about a layout for LyX other than a note 
from about October of 2012 saying that there is no Lyx layout.  

Would anyone know of any work being done on this?  I don't really need it 
myself as while I tend to use APA style I'm not submitting papers either for 
publication nor in a class that demands APA but I couple of times recently I 
have wanted to be able to recommend Lyx for a student who needs it and could 
not.  There is just enough difference between apa and apa6 that it would not be 
practical for a novice to even think of using LyX.

Thanks

John Kane
Kingston ON Canada


GET FREE SMILEYS FOR YOUR IM & EMAIL - Learn more at 
http://www.inbox.com/smileys
Works with AIM®, MSN® Messenger, Yahoo!® Messenger, ICQ®, Google Talk™ and most 
webmails

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane  wrote:

Hi John,

> Would anyone know of any work being done on this?

No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the reason why:
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187

And see this ticket for the main request:
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391

Best,

Scott

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Ray Rashif]

On 9 December 2012 00:45, Scott Kostyshak  wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane  wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
>> Would anyone know of any work being done on this?
>
> No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the reason why:
> http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187
>
> And see this ticket for the main request:
> http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391
>
> Best,
>
> Scott

I came across this recently as I was searching for some answers but
this is only LaTeX-specific:
mirror.hmc.edu/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/apa6/apa6.pdf

May help to understand the situation at least.


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GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[José Matos]

On 12/08/2012 04:45 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:30 AM, John Kane  wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
>> Would anyone know of any work being done on this?
> No work is currently being done. See the last comment here for the reason why:
> http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8187
>
> And see this ticket for the main request:
> http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8391
>
> Best,
>
> Scott

With that said if we had a layout for apa6 contributed we would accept
it. So just because no one is working on it that is not a reason for
despair. :-)

-- 
José Matos