Re: Qt and alsa mixer

[Lorn Potter]

Hello,

I don't think so.

Some years ago, I wrote qalsamixer (GPL) for qtopia. You can try that.
It should also work on the desktop. I have forgotten if I needed to 
modify it for desktop use. Your mileage may vary if alsa API has changed 
since then.


http://github.com/radekp/qtmoko-apps/tree/master/qalsamixer





On 13/07/10 3:46 AM, ext Nicola Mfb wrote:

Hi!
Does qt multimedia support managing alsa mixer volumes/switches?
If not some hints on the best way to implement it?

Regards

 Niko
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Re: N810 RIP

[Lorn Potter]

Jeffrey Barish wrote:
> Ryan Abel wrote:
> 
>> On Jan 29, 2009, at 9:30 PM, Jeffrey Barish wrote:
>>
>>> Judging from the clearance pricing of the N810 at buy.com ($219.99), I
>>> surmise that Nokia has now discontinued it as well as the N800 and
>>> the N810
>>> Wimax Edition.  So, let's see.  That leaves... nothing.  Nothing but
>>> fond
>>> memories of 2 years spent developing for a platform that no longer
>>> exists.
>> Well, I suppose ignorance can be forgiven since an announcement hasn't
>> actually been made yet, but I'd recommend reading up a bit before you
>> jump to the melodrama.[1][2][3][4]
> 
> The rumors are fascinating.  In the meantime, I am nearly ready to start
> shipping my software but my potential customers have nothing on which to
> run it, unless they happen to own an N8x0 already.  Nokia opened their
> platform to encourage developers to contribute their expertise, but their
> capriciousness and opacity about their hardware roadmap are tolerable only
> to hobbyists or companies porting software from another platform as a
> sideline.  If I postpone delivery until after the rumored next-generation
> platform appears,

It's not _just_ a rumor. There is something else coming up: Fremantle. There is 
something else even
more exciting after that.

> what assurance do I have that Nokia will not balk again? 

Balk at what?

> What assurance do I have that Nokia will not price me out of the market
> with an upgrade burdened with features I don't need? 

I am confused here, how would Nokia price you out of the market? As far as I 
know Nokia isn't
charging for SDK and application development.

Maybe there are features in Fremantle that many more would like, giving you 
more opportunities and a
larger market than the current device can offer?


> If you see only
> melodrama in these concerns, then perhaps you have never tried to run a
> business in the face of such uncertainty.

I think the economy would be a bigger uncertainty in any business right now.
Besides, the n810 is still available. 
http://www.nseries.com/index.html#l=products,n810




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Re: Qt to be available under the terms of the LGPL

[Lorn Potter]

Bruce Stephens wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Andrew Flegg  wrote:
> 
>> I'm sure it's very exciting for OEMs like VMware to now have the
>> option of using Qt rather than GTK in their closed-source UIs. Perhaps
>> it's also now an option for Wayfinder. But these people had money, and
>> the option of a commercial licence anyway.
>>
>> Am I missing something big? Please say I am :-)
> 
> You're only missing that sometimes even for proprietary software, "no cost"
> vs "reasonable cost" matters.  Sometimes the GUI doesn't matter much, and
> the license change means developers can consider Qt more easily than before.
> (That's probably less the case for Maemo, but generally it seems
> likely to be so.)
> 
> A more interesting (but likely speculative) question is why Nokia made
> the change.

two words: "Qt Everywhere"

> My guess is that internally they regard Qt commercial licensing as a 
> distraction
> from their main business, and (though it may be at some level
> irrational) they prefer
> to exchange the income (and distraction) for the positive publicity.

We are still selling Qt as a multi licensed software, we still sell commercial 
licenses to those
companies and people that want to keep their code closed.

At the same time, we are offering support as a separate offering, so Nokia can 
now also make money
from selling GPL, LGPL users support. As well, it removes restrictions for 
being able to use
community contributions.

So, if anything, it's a bigger market.


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Re: Qt to be available under the terms of the LGPL

[Lorn Potter]

Benoît HERVIER wrote:
> It was already in GPL 3 since january 2008. Maybe this explain that.
> 

Probably not. The decision to add the LGPL to Qt licenses was only made 
in the last few months of 2008.



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Re: stlc45xx: open source WLAN driver for N800 and N810

[Lorn Potter]

Kalle Valo wrote:
> "ext Lorn Potter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>> Kalle Valo wrote:
>>> I'm excited to announce a new project called stlc45xx, an open source
>>> WLAN driver for Nokia N800 and N810. It's using mac80211 stack
>>> included in Linux since 2.6.22. Even though I currently classify the
>>> driver as alpha quality I have managed to transfer 1.2 GB of data with
>>> iperf.
>> Excellent news! our sales and marketing will love you!
> 
> Heh. This release is for developers, definitely not for users. But
> maybe some day...

of course. I am a bit of a forward thinker. :)

> 
>>> I'm sending this from Helsinki-Vantaa airport on my way to Berlin. I
>>> will be giving a presentation about stlc45xx at the Maemo Summit on
>>> Friday 15:00. See you there!
>> hopefully these will be recorded for those on the other side of the planet.
> 
> I hope not because I suck as a presenter =)



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Re: stlc45xx: open source WLAN driver for N800 and N810

[Lorn Potter]

Ryan Abel wrote:
> On Sep 18, 2008, at 10:14 AM, Andrew Barr wrote:
> 
>> Now if you guys could just free DSME and BME, I'd have few
>> complaints left. :P
> 
> 
> DSME is being opened.

Also excellent news!



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Re: stlc45xx: open source WLAN driver for N800 and N810

[Lorn Potter]

Kalle Valo wrote:
> I'm excited to announce a new project called stlc45xx, an open source
> WLAN driver for Nokia N800 and N810. It's using mac80211 stack
> included in Linux since 2.6.22. Even though I currently classify the
> driver as alpha quality I have managed to transfer 1.2 GB of data with
> iperf.

Excellent news! our sales and marketing will love you!

> 
> Our aim is to run the project in community mode and all community
> contribution is very welcomed. A git repository will be set up soon to
> make it easier for the developers to work on the driver. The project
> web page will contain more information as it comes available:
> 
> http://stlc45xx.garage.maemo.org/
> 
> I recommend anyone interested about the project joining
> stlc45xx-devel. Unfortunately the garage project is closed currently,
> but it will be opened as soon as possible.
> 
> I'm sending this from Helsinki-Vantaa airport on my way to Berlin. I
> will be giving a presentation about stlc45xx at the Maemo Summit on
> Friday 15:00. See you there!

hopefully these will be recorded for those on the other side of the planet.



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Re: "and I don't think the decision makers need more input from the Maemo community"

[Lorn Potter]

Darius Jack wrote:
> Nokia is lossing millions, is loosing markets

oh really? You are only half correct.

"Nokia reported second quarter earnings today, which saw its net income 
fall 61 percent to 1.1 billion euros ($1.74 billion), from 2.83 billion 
euros ($4.49 billion), compared to a year ago despite its market share 
reaches 40% from 38%."

http://mobchina.blogspot.com/2008/07/nokias-profits-drop-by-61.html

So Nokia increased it market share and is still loosing sales. couldn't 
have anything to do with recession at all or high fuel prices, either hey?


> and Maemo, Maemo community was really a great chance for Nokia
> to make something special.

They did. Besides, Nokia and Maemo doesn't make the community. The 
community makes itself.

> Today chances are lost.
> It's too late.

oh. such doom and gloom...

> Just read Bloomberg and market analysis and stock reports.
> Chances for sucess and to be No.1 with Maemo success has gone forever
> to Samsung, Apple and emerging Google cell phones.

really funny. I thought the n770, n800 and n810 has no gsm. If you know 
differently, please point me to the correct dev node and I will whack 
Qtopia Phone on there so you can use it as a gsm phone (oh wait. Qtopia 
Phone already runs on n810, silly me, what was I thinking. All thats 
needed is a phonevendor plugin). so no, it isn't competing with apple 
and 'emerging' android phones. as well, any android phone is just 
vaporware. Do you smell that? They let the blue smoke out of their 
reference boards...


> 
> We should play fair.
> Maemo community was a great chance for a great victory by Nokia.
> Unsupported, with no leadership, no challenges set
> ended in frustration and half-finished products
> like low quality gps navigation, no-cell-phone Maemo.

It was never meant as a mobile phone, otherwise there would be a gms 
chip on it.
Besides, anyone can write a high quality gps navigation application if 
they want. Why leave it up to Nokia? The product is open enough to make 
any application possible. and now with qt4-maemo, it has never been easier.

> 
> At the same time Samsung, Apple, Google made very fast progress
> with emerging technologies, multitouch products, high-quality integrated 
> navigation.

good for them. They are mobile phones...

> 
> I can't blame you for a defeat, but frankly speaking, you showed no interest 
> to make Maemo developers the Champions - world-leaders in emerging 
> technologies and products, giving handicap to Apple and Samsung
> to make much faster progress.

Perhaps you haven't heard about maemo-qt? Try writing an app for your 
iPhone that you can simply recompile to run on linux, mac and windows...

> 
> Lost chance by Nokia is not my personal opinion.

yes. it is.

> Lost chance is market analysis published by Bloomberg.

I think growing in market share from 38% to 40% is doing well. But this 
is a differing market to what the tablets are competing in, so your 
point is moot.

> 
> just what Bloomberg says:

[snip some mumbojumbo personal opinions]


> The only chance for success is to have comm unity of developers really 
> integrated with main development strategies

again, see maemo-qt4. it is the future I think...

> and my suggestion to set up Think-Tank
> made some months ago
> was the right direction.

ok. so where is your thinktank and what documents have they produced?

> 
> Wish you success anyway.
> (and pls don't delete my post and don't take it personally)

I wont take it personally, after all, it is just your opinion.

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Re: Portrait Maemo app

[Lorn Potter]

David Greaves wrote:
> Hi
> I'm writing an app that would be best presented in portrait mode - can this 
> be done?
> 
> I don't mind jumping through a few hoops but I'd like to share it at some 
> point
> so it needs to be done inside my app. Also it would need to scroll down (well,
> sideways) a fair few pages.
> 
> I have it mocked up in gtk+ at the moment and it's begging to be turned 
> through
> 90deg.
> It's a touch based app so there are no typing issues.
> 
> What if I use the new Qt4 port? (The Zaurus Qtopia port introduced rotation 
> but
> I think that was at the fb level)

Qt's rotation is not done on the hardware level, it is done in Qt's 
software. It can be done, if the transformed driver is being used.



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Re: [maemo-developers] Too busy to accept help? I'm not complaining

[Lorn Potter]

Jussi Pakkanen wrote:

--- Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Correction. Qtopia is dual licensed, commercial and
GPL. GPL of course 
has no licensing cost. The only "legal" difference
of GPL and LGPL is 
that GPL insures derived sources remain open.


There is also the problem of free software that is
GPL-incompatible (MAME etc). They can't link against
GPL libraries, nor will anyone buy a commercial
license for them. Which means you are pretty much screwed.


No, this just means that MAME is screwed.
MAME has it's own legal problems, so I really doubt any company would 
take the chance on delivering that on a device.



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Re: [maemo-developers] Too busy to accept help? I'm not complaining

[Lorn Potter]

Kalle Vahlman wrote:

The only "legal" difference of GPL and LGPL is
that GPL insures derived sources remain open.


No. Sources will always remain open with LGPL too. It's the combining
and linking with non-free (in fact, any) licensed work that LGPL
allows (and GPL doesn't).


Which means sources are not open (those that are non free that are 
allowed to link to LGPL), which was my point.

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Re: [maemo-developers] Too busy to accept help? I'm not complaining

[Lorn Potter]

Kalle Vahlman wrote:

On 4/20/06, Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Weinehall David (Nokia-M/Tampere) wrote:
[snip]


Just using plain Qtopia wouldn't have been an option, just as using
plain GTK+ without Hildon wasn't an option; we had to use a UI that
looks somewhat like Nokia's earlier products, without forking too
wildly.  So the work effort would've been the same either way; the
difference being that Qtopia would've incurred the added penalties
of a licensing cost, C++, and of course the extra legal issues
surrounding the fact that Qtopia is GPL, not LGPL.  The Nokia legal

Correction. Qtopia is dual licensed, commercial and GPL. GPL of course
has no licensing cost.


I remember seeing (but cannot confirm right now) a statement that some
modules were not allowed to be used on GPL when I compiled the
opensource version of Qtopia last night. So I guess to really have
that edge whith all the readily available thingies that were mentioned
one must pay the fee anyway?


The only missing 'modules' in pda commercial thats not in gpl version is 
qtmail. or are you meaning the phone version?


Then there is always Opie which has more programs than you need, and is 
also GPL and in some ways better than Qtopia.


Any company is going to have to pay some kind of fee, regardless whether 
it's a licensing fee, or fee's of developers to update and maintain your 
code base.



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Re: [maemo-developers] Too busy to accept help? I'm not complaining

[Lorn Potter]

Weinehall David (Nokia-M/Tampere) wrote:
[snip]


Just using plain Qtopia wouldn't have been an option, just as using
plain GTK+ without Hildon wasn't an option; we had to use a UI that
looks somewhat like Nokia's earlier products, without forking too
wildly.  So the work effort would've been the same either way; the
difference being that Qtopia would've incurred the added penalties
of a licensing cost, C++, and of course the extra legal issues
surrounding the fact that Qtopia is GPL, not LGPL.  The Nokia legal


Correction. Qtopia is dual licensed, commercial and GPL. GPL of course 
has no licensing cost. The only "legal" difference of GPL and LGPL is 
that GPL insures derived sources remain open.




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Re: [maemo-developers] Failure to compile Qt 3.3.5, Infinite loop in qemu-arm, bug in qemu-arm or gcc ?

[Lorn Potter]

Benno Senoner wrote:

Hi,
I installed scratchbox and the maemo sdk as described on the maemo site.

I can compile the hello-gtk example and other apps without problems.

I tried to compile Qt 3.3.5 from source:

ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qt/source/qt-x11-free-3.3.5.tar.bz2


I installed 2 toolchains:

http://www.scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/0.9.8/tarball/scratchbox-toolchain-arm-glibc-0.9.8.5.tar.gz 



and

http://www.scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/0.9.8/tarball/scratchbox-toolchain-arm-gcc3.4.cs-glibc-0.9.8.5.tar.gz 




With the first toolchain (gcc 3.3)  I can
run Qt's
./configure  and then when I issue make
the compilation starts and  libqt-3.3.5.so seems to get built successfully.
Afterwards it tries to build  Qt designer and at some point  uic hangs 
indefinitely ,
While the host box is relatively slow  VIA Nehemiah 1GHz , i686 
compatible  I let the make process run

for over a day but it seems it gets in some kind of infinite loop.

 PID USER  PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEMTIME+  COMMAND
13373 sbox  35  10 84164 9232   76 R 84.9  4.1   2008:30 qemu-arm

while compiling this file:

/home/sbox/qt-3.3.5/qt-x11-free-3.3.5/bin/uic -L 
/home/sbox/qt-3.3.5/qt-x11-free-3.3.5/plugins pixmapfunction.ui -o 
pixmapfunction.h


What could the cause be ?
A bug in gcc that generates erratic code which makes the uic code loop 
forever or could it be a bug in qemu-arm which causes this loop ?


I tried with the gcc-3.4 toolchain but in that case I cannot even run 
configure since it says missing libstdc++.

Any idea how I can compile Qt using the gcc-3.4 toolchain ?

Since Opera is a Qt app and is installed on the Nokia 770 I assume the 
Opera guys found a way to compile Qt.


thanks in advance for your help,,

cheers,
Benno


set the -xplatform configure argument.
./configure --help for more information



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Re: [maemo-developers] modifying root filesystem

[Lorn Potter]

On Monday 16 January 2006 19:04, Devesh Kothari wrote:
> ext Lorn Potter wrote:
> >I tried the instructions and scripts for modifying the root filesystem,
> >http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_use_flasher_rootfs.html
> >
> >It seems the rootfs.packages and sources.list are out of date, or there
> > are a few packages missing (hildon-status-bar-display).
> >
> >The make_rootimage.sh script seems a bit unfinished, as it's help lists
> >--outprefix and --jffs2 which do not work.
> >(looking at the script, it seems there are a few missplaced 'x'
> > characters, and variable not all caps)
> >
> >I manually tar.gz the resulting root filesystem (the web page doesn't
> > mention the need to do this part), and ran the tar2jffs2.sh, script,
> > flashed the device, but the device keeps rebooting..
> >___
> >maemo-developers mailing list
> >maemo-developers@maemo.org
> >https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>
> make sure you dont miss this step below
>
> The reference root filesystem includes some binary modules that can be
> downloaded separately. These packages are not necessary, you may create
> a root filesystem without them, but some functionality will be missing.
> To download these packages, please follow this link
> <http://maemo.org/downloads/d2.php>.
>
> http://maemo.org/downloads/d2.php
>
> If you have successfuly downloaded those packages, then create a
> workarounds/ directory under your rootfs working directory and copy the
> binary packages there.
>
>
> Devesh

Must be something missing in the scripts. I mounted and extracted the dev 
platform v1.1 rootfilesystem and used the mkfs.jffs2 and sumtool lines out of 
tar2jffs2.sh script to make an image... which didn't boot and acted like the 
other rootimages I tried to make (reboot over and over). The resulting file 
wasn't even the same size as the 'official'.

Must be some magic not in the scripts or documents.
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Re: [maemo-developers] modifying root filesystem

[Lorn Potter]

On Monday 16 January 2006 19:04, Devesh Kothari wrote:
>
> make sure you dont miss this step below
>
> The reference root filesystem includes some binary modules that can be
> downloaded separately. These packages are not necessary, you may create
> a root filesystem without them, but some functionality will be missing.
> To download these packages, please follow this link
> .
>
> http://maemo.org/downloads/d2.php
>
> If you have successfuly downloaded those packages, then create a
> workarounds/ directory under your rootfs working directory and copy the
> binary packages there.

yep. Did this too. Got through the rootfs creation. Failed without it, 
although the web page makes it seem like its optional.
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[maemo-developers] modifying root filesystem

[Lorn Potter]

I tried the instructions and scripts for modifying the root filesystem,
http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_use_flasher_rootfs.html

It seems the rootfs.packages and sources.list are out of date, or there are a 
few packages missing (hildon-status-bar-display).

The make_rootimage.sh script seems a bit unfinished, as it's help lists 
--outprefix and --jffs2 which do not work.
(looking at the script, it seems there are a few missplaced 'x' characters, 
and variable not all caps)

I manually tar.gz the resulting root filesystem (the web page doesn't mention 
the need to do this part), and ran the tar2jffs2.sh, script, flashed the 
device, but the device keeps rebooting..
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Re: [maemo-developers] Doubts about flash memories and frequent writing

[Lorn Potter]

Israel Herraiz wrote:

Hi everybody,

sorry if my question seems too evident.

As far as I know, the Nokia 770 contains a flash memory (128 MB), a RAM
memory (64 MB) and the MMC card.

All the filesystem is stored in the flash memory, and the MMC is mounted
in /media/mmc1. Even, you can make swapping with a file in the MMC, as
appeared some days ago in Planet Maemo.

I am wondering if swapping and every day writing in the internal flash
could damage these memories. Some people told me that flash memories
should not be used for frequent disks writing (like swapping or every
day usage of a computer). Is this relevant? I mean, could I damage the
flash memory if I use the device very often and I make swap on the MMC
or internal flash?

Regards,
Israel Herraiz


Older NOR flash has a 100,000 write limitation (complete write), NAND 
flash has about one million write cycles. All flash memory these days is 
NAND.


I wouldn't recommend swap on flash, but you (if you must) probably want 
swap on a removable card.





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Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt

[Lorn Potter]

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 04:30 am, Nils Faerber wrote:

> What I still do not understand, please excuse my ignorance, will this
> Qt/e version still need the whole framebuffer or will it run in some
> kind of simulated framebuffer inside X11? And what would be the
> consequences of that, i.e. will it be possibleto run multiple of such
> Qt/e apps simultanously?

Qt/e will still need a framebuffer. whether is is a virtual framebuffer or 
not, it does not matter.
At least with qvfb (qvfb is similar to xvfb), one can run many instances. So 
every running qt/e application can have its own virtual framebuffer. You must 
export QWS_DISPLAY=QVFb:0 or QVFb:1. Or use just one vfb, and run many 
applications in that.





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Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?

[Lorn Potter]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:35 pm, Justin Bradford wrote:
> > Should this mailing list be moderated?
>
> Yes. Seriously, I don't mean to write obnoxious responses to Potter et
> al, but eventually their idiocy just breaks me (damn, did it again).
> So a filter on both of "our sides" wouldn't be a bad idea.

Every mail client I have ever seen includes a useful feature. A manual filter 
button. It's got the label "Delete" on it. I suggest you use it when you see 
things you don't like to read.


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Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?

[Lorn Potter]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 08:21 pm, Justin Bradford wrote:

> Perhaps because actual and potential maemo open source developers are
> sick of hearing about how it should really be a QT/e based platform.
well, if so many people mention this, maybe it's true.

> What exactly is better about that approach, besides, of course, that
> Trolltech gets $$$ for any commercial developer that decides to
> consider the platform. Why would Nokia choose a QT based system when
> they actually want commercial developers?
>
> And, as it it is a flamewar and all, perhaps the unpleasantness is
> just the consequence of general nausea at the prospect of having to
> pay some random company for the mere privilege of developing
> commercial applications for a platform.

and I suppose you get your hardware free from a non company entity? 

There are good reasons why businesses would want one _real_ company behind 
software that they are trying to develop a device for.


> For what it's worth, this is the first Linux-based handheld/"embedded"
> device I was interested in developing for, largely because it was the
> first device that didn't use QT.
>
> Sure a QT license is a trivial percentage of the cost of commercial
> development, but I refuse to consider a platform that *requires* QT on
> simple principle. And this is being written on a laptop running
> Windows. And moreover, a laptop running Windows with well over $2000
> of Windows development software on it. But if I wanted, developing
> commercial apps for Windows or MacOS (which I do), could cost nothing
> more than that needed for testing. But developing for KDE still
> requires an unvoidable tithe to Trolltech. Any platform that has a
> core, fundamental library under the GPL license should be shunned,
> whether RMS is pleased or not.
heh. Qt is dual licensed. LGPL isn't really about free software anyway, but 
let's not digress.

> And the sheer arrogance of Trolltech and their positioning of QT makes
excuse me? Arrogance? I came from the open source developer world, and I see 
no arrogance at Trolltech. Only arrogance I see is from zealots living in a 
black and white world.

> me wish that that company (and their employees who decided on this
> course of action) will rot in hell for eternity. There is no company
> in the world I would rather see sink into bankruptcy and oblivion more
> than Trolltech. They have done incalcuable damage to the state of the
> Linux desktop.
Riiight. 



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Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt

[Lorn Potter]

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 01:26 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > Kate, your initial work looks very promising, but I'm curious
> > why you're
> > doing a port of Qt itself instead of Qt/e, which is
> > significantly smaller
> > (less features of course)?
>
> Maemo (and therefore the Nokia 770 device) uses X11 and there is no place
> for Qt/e which does not use X. Qt/e emulation to get some software running
> on the maemo and the current maemo compliant device is a great idea if it
> will work, if you ask me. However, replacing the X11 with Qt/e / qtopia
> would be really bad idea (IMHO).
>
> I have compiled both Qt3/X11 and Qt4/X11 for maemo. I haven't tried to put
> the Qt4 to the device yet since it is quite huge with the default options.

Qt4 still is new and does not have all the features configuring that the 
previous qt libraries have.



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Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt

[Lorn Potter]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:15 pm, Kate Alhola wrote:
> I just checked size of native arm libqt-mt.so.3.3.4 and it was 10917826
> bytes ( 10Mbyte !! )
This is why Qtopia uses Qt/E 2 (which is still actively maintained). You can 
use that or wait for Qt/E4. You can whittle down the size by configuring only 
useful features.


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Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?

[Lorn Potter]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 7:27 am, Shawn Gordon wrote:

> >We are still celebrating a QT/e free device and platform (and we are
> >probaly gnome zealots too), on a *gtk* centered mailinglist. This is no
> >excuse, but I wouldn't expect a parade and a visit from the president
> >when saying you want to use QT/e.
>
> I really don't get your animosity.  Every toolkit has its plusses and
> minuses, but as far as I know, Qtopia is the only embedded desktop on
> embedded linux that is being used in the real world on real devices at the
> moment, it must be on about 10 different Zaurus and the Archos and some
> other things. 


Also the ZTE E3 ships with Qtopia Phone. :) and the Motorola phones that use 
Qt/Embedded.






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Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?

[Lorn Potter]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 3:52 am, Shawn Gordon wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Seems that everyone I knew at Nokia from the "Media Terminal" days is gone,
> and we'd like to talk to them about porting our library of applications to
> the 770 (www.thekompany.com/embedded) - given that we use Qt/e-Qtopia, I've
> been watching the discussion on that topic with interest - has anyone tried
> taking a Qtopia app and getting it to run by just including the Qtopia libs
> required for it?  Aside from that, a contact at Nokia would be really
> appreciate, I've seen some names around but no email addresses.  Feel free
> to reply privately if needed.  Thanks.

You probably won't be able to do that with qt/e 2, as the windowing is quite 
different for X11  and framebuffer. Qt/E4 will make this easier to do.

You can try to patch qvfb to run in a frameless mode, or run whatever else 
virtual framebuffer runs in X, and run your apps that way.



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Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?

[Lorn Potter]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 6:36 am, Koen Kooi wrote:

> >> Qt/e has its own framebuffer and doesn't use X, which is part of the
> >> appeal for it on embedded devices, I think the footprint is about 3mb
> >> (Lorn, correct me if I'm wrong) - for my purposes I don't care about X,

Qt/E version 2 with features configured, yes.


> Yes, I know all about the QT/e (and the propaganda coupled with it), but
> the 770 (device) and maemo (X11/GTK platform) use X, so there is no way
> you can 'look reasonable within the existing framework' if you want to
> use QT/e painting directly to the framebuffer. To make it abundantly
Actually you are misinformed. There is an X server that runs in a Qtopia 
window. So I can run any Hildon/Maemo application that you can, in a Qtopia 
environment.


> clear: the 770 is a *device* which you can do with what you want, but
> maemo is a platform that relies on X and to a lesser extent on GTK. The
> previous QT (be it X11 or /e) discussion ended with the note people
> should stop trolling about QT/e and it's suppossedly superiority and
> start working on making QT work with hildon and osso. 
hmm.. I don't remember it ending that way.
How about a different proposal.  Making Hildon/Maemo run on 
Qtopia/Qt/Embedded. :)


> Maemo uses X and 
> GTK, if that offends you or doesn't fit in to your current development
> platform, don't bother this list. Maemo uses X, deal with it. All these
> 'Yes, but qt/e is better' threads start to annoy and aren't
> constructive. 
So dissenting opinions aren't constructive?

> Maemo uses X, curse all you want, but that's the truth. 
> Don't like it? Produce something better and tell us the results, just
> don't start this pre-emptive whining about QT/e.
> I guess I should now better and stop feeding the trolls (haha, trolltech
> toolkits and trolls), but I think it's time to post a big note to
> maemo.org and nokia.com stating: "Not interested in QT/e, piss off".
Good thing you aren't in charge of business at Nokia.

> QT is well designed and allows you to build qtopia with X support, no
> problem there. Maemo is a platform, not a device, so pimping opie (a
> nice platform, which is going to switch to QT4/x11, btw) 
Not switch, but give users a choice. and only if someone actually does the 
work.

> or QT/e annoys 
> the crap out of me and judging from the reactions on IRC, a lot of other
> people. Maemo uses X, deal with it. Feel free to install what you want
> on your *device*, but stop bothering us with FUD about X being
> inappriate on embedded devices.

Whats stopping someone on this list from making Maemo/Hildon run on a 
framebuffer?

> To make it very clear: QT is nice, a hildonized QT would be a neat thing
> to have, hildonized KDE apps aren't evil, but maemo is primarely a
> X11/GTK platform. Whining about QT/e in the platform (not even the
> device!) list is just childish and promotes prejudices about 'the other
> side of the fence'.

and mailing list police also promotes prejudices..

> Either be constructive and start working on proper integration with
> hildon and osso, or continue your effort on a more appropriate
> mailinglist (qt-interest or something). This is a maemo list, not a
> nokia 770 list. Maemo uses X and is a platform.
> I appreciate all the work TT and TK do on qtopia, and their apps are
> very nice, nothing against that, but don't go bullying on maemo for
> being different. I personally carry a deep resentment against QT/e (not
> QT, not qtopia), but that doesn't stop me from working and having fun
> with the Opie people, it just puts me in a foul mood when I read stuff
> like this. Choice is good, so don't stuff qt/e down our throats.

I read stuff like this all the time, from both sides. 



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Re: [PMX:#] Re: [maemo-developers] Qt + KDE port

[Lorn Potter]

Christian Fredrik Kalager Schaller wrote:

On Mon, 2005-07-11 at 08:46 +1000, Lorn Potter wrote:


On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 12:59 am, Florian Boor wrote:


Hello,

Gustavo Barbieri wrote:


Wel... my idea was to wipe out any gtk from it ;)


Fine idea! ;)



I realize that Trolltech probably worries quite a bit about gtk also
becoming a competitor in the embedded market through this, but it is a
little over the top disgusting when a Trolltech employee such as
yourself start spamming the list with your advocacy and jibes.


Actually, Trolltech does not worry about it very much at all, we don't 
really see free software as competition. If we did, we wouldn't give our 
source code away.


We just think there is a better solution already out there, that 
requires much less work to deploy, and find it curious.



Why don't you go back to actually managing your own community instead of
spamming this one?


Not only am I an employee of Trolltech, I am also a member of the linux 
embedded community for nearly 4 years, and a member of the Opie core 
developers as well.


A community is just that - a community. It includes very many differing 
opinions. If you want to split this up into 'hoods you can.


Last I checked, membership in this community was open to anyone with an 
interest, and there were no restrictions placed on members employers. 
Please point me to the document where it states being an employee of 
Trolltech disallows me to be a member in this community, and I will not 
contribute further.


Further more, I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are. I am also 
entitled to defend jibes against my employer and it's products (which I 
have seen more than once on this list, which is fine - critisism is 
healthy), just as you are.




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Re: [maemo-developers] Qt + KDE port

[Lorn Potter]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 12:59 am, Florian Boor wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Gustavo Barbieri wrote:
> > Wel... my idea was to wipe out any gtk from it ;)
Fine idea! ;)

> > Okay, maemo UI is great, but I think using kde technology worth loosing
> > it.
>
> is that really woth that effort? Who would want to maintain a hack like
> this? It might be a better idea to identify technologies which are worth to
> port from KDE to maemo imho.

He could easily use Qtopia or Opie instead of Hildon. In which case, he could 
use microkde to facilitate kde apps.



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Re: [maemo-developers] ll

[Lorn Potter]

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 12:30 pm, Koen Kooi wrote:
> Gustavo Barbieri wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Has anyone started a KDE port or is interested in one?
> >
> > Main reasons is that many KDE applications already have tweaks to fit
> > small devices, since they run in some QTopia/Opie environments.
>
> Those are mostly QT (or qpe) apps, since kdelibs is one huge monolothic
> beast with a messed up build system (scratchbox to the rescue!!). I've
> heard rumours that the new kdelibs will have some finer grained
> packaging, so the situation might improve. I think that the apps need to
> be rewritten to run with GTK in stead of QT as a UI toolkit to integrate
> into hildon. Any QT experts that know what kind of porting would be
> involved around?

There are already several kde apps that use 'microkde' sources as a go between 
Qtopia/Qt and kde.
Unfortunately there are several versions of 'microkde' sources as well.

But these use Qt Embedded, and since there is X server on this (unless you ran 
these apps in qvfb - which could be modified to be 'windowless'), one would 
need to use Qt-x11, which rules out Qtopia (and Opie for now).


> > Also, KHTML + KPIM + KOffice would be a great offer for those that
> > want productivity + conectivity. KPIM is specially meant to work well
> > on disconnected system with it's new kitchensync arch.
>
> At the moment already we have GPE + abiword + gnumeric which can use
> (multi/open)sync. All these apps are hildonized, or mostly hildonized.
> So you can already be productive and connected if using non-QT software
> on an X server isn't against your religion.
> Once again, having a choice is good, but fragmentation and reinventing
> the wheel is bad.
heh... I wont even touch this.


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Re: [maemo-developers] Wonderful device from Nokia...

[Lorn Potter]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 8:14 pm, Koen Kooi wrote:

> You're confusing distro (OpenZaurus) and environment (Opie or GPE), but
> that doesn't matter much for the point that QT/e and sharp suck.

This is obviously just an opinion that thousands of Japanese Zaurus users will 
disagree with. I could go on about GPE's lack of polish but I won't...




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Re: [maemo-developers] Wonderful device from Nokia...

[Lorn Potter]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 8:10 pm, Mattias Schlenker wrote:

> I assume that Nokia did precise analysis on the points of failure of the
> Zaurus' acceptance. A fork of Maemo would be absolutely

The Zaurus is the most popular pda in Japan. It is not a failure. Only in 
western markets where Sharp did not exactly market, or support  this 
correctly, did it "fail". 

> counterproductive for both sides: developers focusing on the free fork
> would end up with unpolished applications and Nokia would have to invest
> (wo)manpower in backporting apps from the forked environment to satisfy
> customers. Thus integrating the community early (and pampering us with
> developer devices) is a clever move.

Forking in and of itself is not a ticket to failure. Lacking proper support 
from the manufature is a ticket to failure.



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