Re: Shortcut for XTerminal (SHIFT+CTRL+X)
On Tue, 2010-10-26 at 10:26 -0300, ext Francisco Diaz Trepat - gmail wrote: Hi all I was wondering if there is a way to change the (SHIFT+CTRL+X) shortcut to some other combination more easy for me. Sidenote: iirc it's not recommended to use that approach because some resources are not claimed back once the terminal is closed. It was mostly meant to be used in case of emergency. hopefully someone with better memory than mine can confirm/dispute this cheers, igor ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 power consumption
ext Bernard Tyers wrote: If I am at home I use it to read rss feeds, and make calls. When at work it is idling on wifi. It would be interesting to know if it supports power save. Even if you have not changed anything, in the environment where the N900 lives, setup conditions different from the expected ones (and I believe our testing is done with AP with power-save enabled) might give interesting results. Like this one. igor ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Repair an N770?
hi, ext Chris Vail wrote: One of my N770s has lost Bluetooth and wifi, and Nokia USA said they don't do out of warranty repairs. Given that the N770 is obsolete, is it possible to find someone in the US to repair it? I have talked to one independent shop about it, and the tech suggested it is most likely a chip that got zapped, and that Nokia would just replace the circuit board, if they were to do a repair, so that doesn't sound like the N770 is repairable. check first if the antenna got disconnected you should probably find on youtube some dismantling instructions on some russian website there was even available the sheet for repair centers, with checkpoints and expected wave patterns igor ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Carrier locked N900 and root access
Hi, ext sebastian maemo wrote: Hi there: In case I buy a carrier locked N900... will I still have the possibility to get root access?... I think so, but then... what prevents me from unlocking the device??? The SIMLOCK functionality is provided by the cellular modem, which has its own OS and support HW. igor ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Deactivate buggy portrait mode on N900
ext Timo Pelkonen wrote: 2010/1/18 Andrea Borgia and...@borgia.bo.itmailto:and...@borgia.bo.it - Original message - since last week, I can use my N900 in portrait mode after using the phone app in portrait mode and hanging up. However, it is Seems like you hit a bug in the transition from portrait to landscape: afaik it is not yet possible to use the application manager in portrait mode. Please file a bug, with as much detail as you can especially if you can reproduce it. A. It is an easter egg. only bugreport that is reasonable could be that easter egg can't be disabled. but one has to input ctr+shift+o when at browser to enable the easter egg aka portrait mode for the browser. No, it's a real bug: I have witnessed it without using the browser. Most likely a race or wrong locking because those few times it happened, the device was somehow slow and i bet some non-protected sequence completed in a time significantly different from its usual execution. igor ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: bluetooth keyboards and N900
ext Timo Pelkonen wrote: Then let the markets decide it instead of your speculation, markets are always right unlike persons. Ossipena/Timo Especially when the speculations are offensive without even bringing any evidence pointing to whose fault it is. igor ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 01:38 +0200, ext Mark wrote: many other devices these days are putting the microSD slot under the battery. Grrr... for the very same reason why the SIM is located there in the vast majority (all?) of phones: to prevent hot swap and simplify its management. If you were to connect the battery somehow (wires?) so that the SIM could be swapped with the phone on, interesting things would happen. It also means that the products can be cheaper since there is no need for the extra sensor to detect the swap. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Maemo Software - Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 Now Resets Very Frequently
On Tue, 2008-08-05 at 19:30 +0300, ext Eero Tamminen wrote: When you're not using the device, I would recommend putting it to offline mode, that's an option in the power-button menu that disables all radios in the device (next time you need to use net, just OK a dialog that the device gives you). This can make a large difference if you have processes that like to often check things from the network. (above could be added to good answers about battery usage I guess) Well, it's a workaround, but the right answer is that those processes are obviously buggy and must be fixed. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Maemo Software - Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: The n800 or n810 this is what I know, which is better
On Fri, 2008-07-18 at 14:14 -0400, ext John Holmblad wrote: the N800 has an FM radio built in. I am not certain about whether or not the N810 has one. It doesn't. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Maemo Software - Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: The n800 or n810 this is what I know, which is better
On Fri, 2008-07-18 at 13:24 -0600, ext Dr. Nicholas Shaw wrote: 1. The N810 has a slide out keyboard while the N800 does not. Having a physical keyboard is nice but so, sometimes, is having a virtual keyboard especially when you have the device on its stand. The virtual keyboard works also on th n810, it ahs not been removed. 2. Most of the applications behave the same way using the same OS. I think the web cam is of higher quality on the N800 than the N810 from my testing last night. The sensor should be the same. At least the resolution is and afaik both cameras are using the same kernel driver. 3. The FM radio is listed as a download so I assume it will work on the N810 just as it did on the N800. No. It's located in the BT chip of the n800, which is different (and without FM radio) in the n810. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Maemo Software - Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Good stock answers (was Re: N810 Now Resets Very Frequently)
On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 15:45 -0400, ext Ryan Abel wrote: Well, there is a template (not exactly the same, but very similar) being used. It looks like: Ok, I did some sampling of existing bugs but maybe it has been introduced recently (?) But I'd rather see the guided submission form get some traction moving forward (somebody else will have to come up with the URL, I'm in retard-mode at the moment and can't find it). Karsten has, apparently, been working on this, hopefully we'll see it implemented soon. ;) It's much more helpful overall than a simple template. :-/ Maybe I'm just getting old, but i'm not sensitive to the lures of forms. Free text mode seems to be the most simple and flexible approach. I don't know if you are based in the US. I am not and usually I get very pissed off at web sites where one has to introduce some data that makes perfectly sense for US customers and for them only. Because the person designing the form cannot possibly address all the cases that useres will want to represent. So i cherish free form text. I hope that if the bug submission is going to be transformed into a form mode, no field will be mandatory and there will still be the option of leaving free form comments. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Maemo Software - Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 Now Resets Very Frequently
On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 10:09 -0400, ext Rick Bilonick wrote: I flashed the latest version of maemo (the last one before Diablo). I've also installed a lot of extra software. Now the N810 resets itself a lot but I can't discern why or how to fix it. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Maemo Software - Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 Now Resets Very Frequently
On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 09:36 -0600, ext Mark wrote: RTFM is *never* an acceptable response. In fact my response was Learn how to describe problems. Far more useful than fixing any specific bug, imho. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Maemo Software - Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 Now Resets Very Frequently
On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 10:57 -0600, ext Mark wrote: ... by RTFM-ing something that has nothing to do with the problem. I think the message do ut des was quite clear. Make an effort to explain your problem and you might be helped. End of transmission. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Maemo Software - Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Good stock answers (was Re: N810 Now Resets Very Frequently)
On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 22:07 +0300, ext Kalle Valo wrote: Now that I'm categorised as a bad boy, hehe, I have to improve my public image and do my share on the WLAN part ;) Since I have no public image left to defend, instead I'll take the chance to point to something that is part of our internal bugzilla and seems to be missing from the public one. When one is creating a new bug, he is automatically presented with the following template. -- SOFTWARE VERSION: (Control Panel Device About product) HARDWARE VERSION: PRECONDITIONS: (devices/models involved, environment, settings, external servers/URLs if applicable, media files used, network connection: phone/WLAN) STEPS LEADING TO PROBLEM: (explain in detail what you do (e.g. tap on 'OK') and what you see/hear (message 'Connection failed' appears and a beep can be heard) 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. EXPECTED OUTCOME: ACTUAL OUTCOME: FREQUENCY OF OCCURRENCE: (always, less than 1/10, 5/10, 9/10) -- I don't know if anybody remembers about it but that's something I insisted that it would become part of the bug filing process, after being bothered constantly by lousy bug reports written on the same lines of the email that started all this thread. This was happening 3 to 4 years ago. After some random sampling of bugs present in the external bugzilla, I don't see such template being used in the bug creation. Why? -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Maemo Software - Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business
On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 14:30 -0600, ext Mark wrote: What he *really* means is until we accept their statements at face value with no questions. Learning is the very last thing they want us to do, because that means the acquisition of knowledge. They don't want us to know what's really going on, they want us to accept things as they are. There's a huge difference. Even if I've never met you, I can't help immaging you wearing a tinfoil hat while you are writing these words. A bit paranoid, aren't they? Speeches can be unclear and/or misunderstood. I suggest instead you check the percentage of closed source sw in the tablets over time: it has been shrinking significantly. And you could also take a look at the name and numbers of open source projects supported and financed in the process of creating the sw stack for the tablets. Of course the situation is not perfect, but it has been improving steadily and there is work ongoing to continue improving it. Then it's your choice to believe to facts or not. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business
On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 15:10 -0600, ext Mark wrote: On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 14:30 -0600, ext Mark wrote: What he *really* means is until we accept their statements at face value with no questions. Learning is the very last thing they want us to do, because that means the acquisition of knowledge. They don't want us to know what's really going on, they want us to accept things as they are. There's a huge difference. Even if I've never met you, I can't help immaging you wearing a tinfoil hat while you are writing these words. A bit paranoid, aren't they? Disillusioned and realistic are much more accurate descriptions. I've heard many times conspiration theories like this. They usually involve making the enemy smarter than he actually is or will ever be. You are well down that road. Gullible would be very descriptive of you. Heh, if you refer to the fact that I try to argue with you, probably yes. Not to mention inflammatory. And why not? Do you think you have the monopoly? It's really easy to discount someone by labeling them as crazy or paranoid when you have nothing to actually refute their arguments. I do have arguments and they have been provided, but since it goes against what you want to believe, you ignore it. For example can you deny that Opera has been abandoned? Implicit in your statement is that the number of open apps has increased, thereby increasing the percentage of open software, but your statistic is intended to cover up the fact that the amount of closed software hasn't changed. What's more, the closed stuff is the most fundamental stuff, which means there is a very definite and restrictive limit to the kinds of things the open source people can do. wow, here comes the tinfoil again ... i'm just wondering when you'll pull Lee Oswald in the discussion. If you care enough to search the archives of the maemo ml you'll see that I have been actually listing those impediments that you are foaming about. Don't get me wrong; the community has already done amazing things with the little it's been given. I wouldn't say that it's so little. More can be done, but you are making such generic statements that having a real confrontation is impossible. I'm sure you won't believe me since I'm part of the conspiracy and my @nokia address proves it beyond any doubt, but there really is a daily effort and struggle to improve practices to better cope with the open source way and become good citizens. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Lock, sleep, power-down
On Tue, 2008-06-10 at 10:26 -0600, ext Mark wrote: I verified the settings, and they were indeed as I reported above. Something is definitely not right. Options: -your device is broken and needs to be repaired/replaced -you are running some broken 3rd party application/library (closing apps is not enough) -you have found some new interesting bug in our sw you can have fun and google for details both in this ml and itt, but to spare you the search, you have to: -flash the standard image we release (not the leaked diablo for example) -remove mmc/sd/whatever you have in the slot -format to vfat the internal mmc in case you have an n810 and you changed it to something else If after this you still have problems, then the device is probably broken. If not then try reintroducing one by one your customisations and verify. To give you an example (but i'm not pointing to it) omwheater used to drain the battery dry. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Hard Reset on n810
On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 06:42 -0500, ext Scott Carr wrote: What is the key combo for Hard Reset on the nokia? -1) Move the battery lock -2) Remove battery cover -3) Pop out the battery -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Reporting Bugs
On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 09:55 -0600, ext Mark Haury wrote: ...Which is all irrelevant to someone who has time pressures of their own and just needs an app that works, properly, the first time. If you have a problem with time, then you should be willing to invest money: pay somebody to fix your issue. Certainly your attitude will not help you. And it shouldn't take lots of smartness to understand it. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Next Generation Software Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Windows Flasher
On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 18:34 -0700, ext Jonathan Herriott wrote: I'm looking for a flasher as flexible as the linux version, but all I've found is: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithWindows/ Is there a windows command-line version that is just as flexible as the linux flasher? I don't expect the windows flasher to have been designed with power users / hackers in mind. Why bother with windows? -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Next Generation Software Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery life VERY short on N810, last OS2008...
On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 11:59 +0100, ext Matt Emson wrote: Giacomo Tufano wrote: After installing the last revision of OS2008 (I don't really know why I did it, because I had no problem on startup) battery life is very, very short. I go from full battery down to automatic shutdown in a night... One thing comes to mind : metalayer-crawler... This is going to be your issue. Nokia seem to deny this is a problem, indeed I've read as much on this list. However, the fact that with the metalayer-crawler running, I get about the same amount of run time as you, but disabling it, I get a week in stand by... I'd say Nokia are just plain WRONG! Er... no, I think i've already in public discussions pointed to the crawler as culprit for draining the battery. Probably this points to a deficit in our current testing setup: we usually run verifications with the stock image that can be flashed by users, but probably we should start doing tests also with some loaded MMC. I experienced a probelm when having a loop of symlinks on the internal movinand. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Next Generation Software Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Is OS2006 still supported?
On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 13:52 +0300, ext Quim Gil wrote: ext Luca Olivetti wrote: En/na Quim Gil ha escrit: - The community is empowered to keep over time hardware and software as fit as they wish and are able to. Quite difficult when some critical hardware parts are only usable with binary blobs. What is really the problem: the binaries or the license to distribute them? Or both? Do these binaries impede the community getting what they want? What do they want, by the way? working wireless lan, battery charging, screen dimming and watchdog pinging would be a good start. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Next Generation Software Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Is OS2006 still supported?
On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 14:07 +0300, Quim Gil wrote: Igor Stoppa wrote: On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 13:52 +0300, ext Quim Gil wrote: ext Luca Olivetti wrote: En/na Quim Gil ha escrit: - The community is empowered to keep over time hardware and software as fit as they wish and are able to. Quite difficult when some critical hardware parts are only usable with binary blobs. What is really the problem: the binaries or the license to distribute them? Or both? Do these binaries impede the community getting what they want? What do they want, by the way? working wireless lan, battery charging, screen dimming and watchdog pinging would be a good start. Do you mean that the community can't do a thing unless this functionality is covered by open source packages instead of binaries? Do you mean that Nokia 770 owners can't work on progress themselves until these components are opensourced? What would happen if the community could reuse these binaries in images build and redistributed by themselves? Also, is it feasible to think in open source alternatives developed by the community? One thing is not to do something and another thing is to impede others from doing things. Pointing the real stones in the way would help concentrating the attention on what matters. Afaik the kernel module for wlan is binary only, this prevents new kernels from being used. Then binary only key applications introduce dependencies on version of the libraries they are linked against. For example if the community would like to get rid of initfs, then the implementation would not be so strightforward, since initfs binaries are built against a different libc. About the community developing its own version, well, afaik in certain countries it's illegal to reverse engineer sw and anyway we are not really helping in certain sw areas. Look at the kernel code for retu and tahvo: it's quite close to be obfuscated. And we haven't opened the specs for those asics. Sure one can rewrite a piece of userspace code with no close HW interaction, but these functionalities i'm talking about are too close to the HW to be rewritten without actually having the HW specs. Also i'm not sure about how open the API used by dsm and bme is, that i leave to you to check. But to properly allow the community to come up with its own versions of the closed components, we should make both API and related datasheets open. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Next Generation Software Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Is OS2006 still supported?
On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 12:04 -0600, ext Mark wrote: What we have here is planned obsolescence. The only way to get people to buy new products they don't need is to *make* them need the new stuff by withdrawing support for the older devices. No, that's plain wrong. Being an insider, since 770 creation, i can agree that the whole thing could have been handled a lot better (and I think Quim can still somehow fix it, if he is backed up by enough people requesting features), but your speculations are wrong. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Next Generation Software Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: RAM consumption by the desktop process
Hi, On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 12:09 +, ext Sergey Udaltsov wrote: Do I understand it right that disabled applets do not take memory? Or should I remove them in the app manager? I don't think you can easily (non red pill mode) remove stock applets and anyway you should reinstall them afterward. But you could start by removing al lthe 3rd party stuff and disabling the stock applets. Then enable the internal ones and finally re install one by one the 3rd party ones. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Next Generation Software Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: What is Best practice for Battery Longevity on N8X0?
On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 12:47 +0200, Eero Tamminen wrote: Hi, ext Neil MacLeod wrote: Igor Stoppa wrote: n800: 18 days n810: 27 days Impressive, any details where the savings were done? Is this strictly HW related and the n800 has same OS2008 version as N810? it's both hw and sw; the sw part is about fixing wrong settings in muxing, pulluppulldown and disabling voltage regulators when not in use or OMAP is in retention. Just to confirm, these 18 days are already on N800 with OS2008 and with those sw issues fixed? I don't remember if i checked exactly the sw version that is public atm but if it wasn't then it was close enough. I can't imagine those fixes are in the current software, or anything close to them as a few weeks ago I performed an idle run-down test on an N800 with 2.2007.50-2 (a freshly flashed device with no configuration changes whatsoever, I.e. you didn't restore a backup, configure a phone nor WLAN? so essentially a factory fresh install with a fully charged battery). After 12 days and 2 hours[1] the low battery alarm began to sound - that is just 2/3rds of what you are saying is possible so why such a large discrepancy Igor, the 18 day number, is that until the device (is calculated to) shut itself down, or until there's the low battery warning? heh, first of all i don't see much difference when we talk in terms of days, considering that the notification itself with bells and whistles would probably eat up a good deal of idling time. Then, I intentionally let out all the magic used in battery prediction and user management (what you see from the battery UI is not always what you get, but rather what you _should_ think =) It's a basic calculation done with battery capacity and average idle current over a relatively short time (tens of minutes). could my 9 month old N800 battery really have lost 1/3rd of it's capacity? And you verified that it really was the original N800 battery and charger? (I sometimes use the 770 ones, but I think its battery has smaller capacity) Or can this difference really be down to component variance (the tested N800 is from March 2007)? 1. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2602#c20 - Eero -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Next Generation Software Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: What is Best practice for Battery Longevity on N8X0?
Hi, On Thu, 2008-02-14 at 10:38 +0100, ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: Igor Stoppa wrote: - n800 and n810 have the same battery capacity, but due to few hw bugfixes, the projected idle time is not the same (bear in mind that this is much more than what is advertised since the advertisement takes into account also possible variances in the components batches and anyway it's unlikely that the tablet stays unused for so long ;) I actually got one spare N810 (thanks Quim :-) so I hope I will make similar tests with it until I find better use for it or I break my primary one. If anyone here is interested in some specific test I can run, let me know. I don't have any precise measuring tools so it must be done in software. I think someone done something listenin to d-bus events and reporting battery percentage. I plan to test at least efficiency of mp3 playback with CPU/DSP at 330/220 vs 400/165. cool n800: 18 days n810: 27 days Impressive, any details where the savings were done? Is this strictly HW related and the n800 has same OS2008 version as N810? it's both hw and sw; the sw part is about fixing wrong settings in muxing, pulluppulldown and disabling voltage regulators when not in use or OMAP is in retention. Note that this is measured with no connection/extra sw installed or applications running. The default setting for new device is glowing blue led when device is in standby, are those 27 days measured with glowing blue led? No, that's the wow effect :-D Do the LEDs in N810 still eat CPU power when blinking? No, there is a dedicated, programmable chip, nickname NJoy, which takes care of it. A similar one is in the keyboard controlled and provides backlighting. I posted some time ago a link to the public (and complete!) datasheet on ITT, in the easter egg thread, iirc. It's connected over i2c so it should be quite easy to play with it. A nice experiment would be to write a userspace tool which can generate the program sequence to dump to the njoy for obtaining user-defined patterns. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Next Generation Software Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: What is Best practice for Battery Longevity on N8X0?
On Thu, 2008-02-14 at 14:08 +0100, ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: Igor Stoppa wrote: n800: 18 days n810: 27 days Impressive, any details where the savings were done? Is this strictly HW related and the n800 has same OS2008 version as N810? it's both hw and sw; the sw part is about fixing wrong settings in muxing, pulluppulldown and disabling voltage regulators when not in use or OMAP is in retention. Just to confirm, these 18 days are already on N800 with OS2008 and with those sw issues fixed? I don't remember if i checked exactly the sw version that is public atm but if it wasn't then it was close enough. Do the LEDs in N810 still eat CPU power when blinking? No, there is a dedicated, programmable chip, nickname NJoy, which takes care of it. A similar one is in the keyboard controlled and provides backlighting. I posted some time ago a link to the public (and complete!) datasheet on ITT, in the easter egg thread, iirc. Found it, thanks, here are the links http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=100358#post100358 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=100373#post100373 The page http://www.national.com/pf/LP/LP5521.html mentions also Comprehensive application tools are available, including command compiler for easy LED sequence programming. but there is no download link. One perhaps needs to contact them and this complier may not be free (as beer). Or one could write the compiler :-) The language is not so rich -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Next Generation Software Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: What is Best practice for Battery Longevity on N8X0?
Hi, On Fri, 2008-02-15 at 02:01 +, ext Neil MacLeod wrote: Igor Stoppa wrote: On Thu, 2008-02-14 at 14:08 +0100, ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: Igor Stoppa wrote: n800: 18 days n810: 27 days Impressive, any details where the savings were done? Is this strictly HW related and the n800 has same OS2008 version as N810? it's both hw and sw; the sw part is about fixing wrong settings in muxing, pulluppulldown and disabling voltage regulators when not in use or OMAP is in retention. Just to confirm, these 18 days are already on N800 with OS2008 and with those sw issues fixed? I don't remember if i checked exactly the sw version that is public atm but if it wasn't then it was close enough. I can't imagine those fixes are in the current software, or anything close to them as a few weeks ago I performed an idle run-down test on an N800 with 2.2007.50-2 (a freshly flashed device with no configuration changes whatsoever, so essentially a factory fresh install with a fully charged battery). After 12 days and 2 hours[1] the low battery alarm began to sound - that is just 2/3rds of what you are saying is possible so why such a large discrepancy - could my 9 month old N800 battery really have lost 1/3rd of it's capacity? Or can this difference really be down to component variance (the tested N800 is from March 2007)? At the risk of sounding like a lawyer, if you check my original post, i wrote _projected_ That means that over a short run (less than an hour), current is measured (very accurately) and then applied to the battery capacity. This test ensures that there are no obvious issues with high to medium frequency. I am not aware of anybody here really measuring the battery life over days. I used to do it in 770 times when the activity was a little bit less hectic (and at that time the test was for only 11 days). The fixes i mentioned are there, but there might be something else, at a different level, which compromises the actual achieving of such high idle times. We don't use real batteries for he measurement, so that is out of hte equation in our measurement and i really don't know what's the aging profile of those batteries. This is in general why the promised use time is shorter. When the product is in conception/requirement definition phase, use times for several use cases are defined and not always in a way that really stretches the HW/SW capabilities. So as long as a requirement is met, we are happy with it and move forward to fix the next bug/issue. With 770 the focus was on idle time, then with the first releases on n800 it started moving to idle connected and n810 has brought more in the hot spot _active_ use time. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Next Generation Software Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: What is Best practice for Battery Longevity on N8X0?
Hi, On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 11:54 -0500, ext John Holmblad wrote: All, based on recent correspondence on this list I am beginning to wonder if keeping the N800 or N810 plugged in to the charger will result in the longest useful life of the battery. Intuitively keeping the device plugged in seems to be the right thing to do since it will then be fully charged when I have to disconnect the charger in order to go somewhere with the device. Any thoughts from Nokia battery experts on this list? I'm not really involved in putting the charge in but rather in making it stay there as long as possible, however here are few comments: - the charging is far from being passive, so having the charger plugged in doesn't mean the it will be charging all the time, it depends on the charging algorythm, which will stop charging when it thinks the full charge has been reached; of course it will keep the battery topped, but unless you leave your tablet unused for days in a row, it won't really make a difference, as long as you have not installed some broken application/daemon - n800 and n810 have the same battery capacity, but due to few hw bugfixes, the projected idle time is not the same (bear in mind that this is much more than what is advertised since the advertisement takes into account also possible variances in the components batches and anyway it's unlikely that the tablet stays unused for so long ;) n800: 18 days n810: 27 days The difference is huge in terms of time, but the measured current is quite low, hence even small deltas have significant impact. Note that this is measured with no connection/extra sw installed or applications running. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Next Generation Software Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: fm radio
On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 11:56 +0200, ext Kalle Valo wrote: ext Andrew Flegg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Interesting. Is there an API that an application can detect if a headset is connected or not? There must be some software mechanism because the switch to headphone output for audio is controlled in software, rather than hardware. This can be seen by the fact that the FM radio application allows audio to be output through the speakers when a pair of headphones is acting as aerial. Just what I was thinking. My first guess would be that there's a GPIO for this. Anyone interested should check the kernel sources. And with luck there's already a sysfs interface. Disclaimer: I know nothing about this, this is purely guessing. And right now I don't have time to check this. It's gpio and iirc there's a kernel event being sent. But I have to use the same disclaimer that Kalle wrote. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: modest persistence
On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 09:08 +0100, ext Paolo Casarini wrote: Hi, I tried modest (great!)... is there a way to move the persistence directory where account's cache and headers are stored? i.e. on the memory cards? TIA, Paolo. P.S. a workaround could be create a symbolic link on the fs, but I think it's not the better way to do this. Across different devices you probably need a bind mount -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life N800 + OS2008
Hi, On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 17:28 +, ext Martin Grimme wrote: Hi, I have experienced exactly the same with os2008beta. I also began wondering if my battery began to wear off signiricantly. I have just installed the current os2008 and will see how it affects battery life. Cheers, Martin 2007/12/21, Piotr Zagorowski [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, I know battery life topic was brought to this forum, but now I'd like to ask about new OS2008 and battery life. I have noticed significant decrease since I moved to OS2k8. I didn't ask before as I was waiting for official release. Now I can confirm this is issue (in my case). Running on OS2007 I could use my nokia for about 5 days. Now it last for about 1 day and I have to re-charge. I know CPU works faster and this means more power as well as there are more improvements etc etc. Is this only one explanation? I usually try to close all applications I don't need when not using my tablet. Does anyone experience the same problem? Maybe this is coincidence and my battery/charger is broken? However it charges and everything looks fine. thanks Pit P.S. I really appreciate new OS. Most applications I use is already ported. Everything is much faster and apart from my battery life concerns it looks fantastic. Very well-done Nokia! This is the state of things: - during development we test all the common expected usecases with the stock fw - we make sure that the claims we make on the advertisement material and in the box are backed by corresponding reality - the last number i saw were pointing to above 20 days of standby idle (meaning that you charge the battery and let the device untouched for 20 days) even if we officially support about 10, iirc - the higher frequency does _not_ affect negatively the use time unless you are doing something cpu-intensive I would suggest you to do like others have done before: try without any extra application, then proceed by bisection, by installing half of those you have now and see if there is any significant decay of battery life. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: help!? my N810 seems dead(ish)
On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 10:19 +0100, ext Frédéric Crozat wrote: On Dec 18, 2007 8:54 AM, Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 09:51 +0200, ext Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote: On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 20:56 -0800, ext Joshua Layne wrote: they have had warranty issues on it. However, a brief search on google shows some fly-by-night places that have it for really cheap (like a few dollars), so I may just pick up a replacement and a spare for the office./; Beware that some of the cheap noname ones might have different voltages - one of my 12V car chargers for example does not charge my N800 at all. It charges 770's and phones just fine. That's weird - N800 and 770 have practically the same chargin interface - HW, SW and battery - and when doing idle chargin their current is comparable. Unless the N800 sw recognises the fake charger and simply refuses to use it :-) I object :) With my 770, I could use my Nokia 6021 charger ACP-7E (with the plug adapter CA-44) nicely. Unfortunately, it is no longer possible with n800, probably because the output power of the charger is too low. A collegue is able to charge his n800 (and 770) with his 6230 charger (ACP-12E) and the adapter. It depends also on the sw version you are running on the tablet. Different OS versions have different versions of charging sw. Anyway, it shouldn't fail silently, but show some message. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: What is 2nd piece in N800 FIASCO image?
On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 19:28 -0800, ext James Sparenberg wrote: On Tuesday 18 December 2007 12:22:45 pm digger vermont wrote: Hello, Because I have a powerpc with linux I need to use 0x to flash images. 0x doesn't yet have the ability to flash the entire image but it can unpack the image and then install the individual pieces. The pieces are: 2nd, initfs, kernel, rootfs, secondary, and xloader. I can successfully flash all the pieces except 2nd The N800 seems to operate fine without it. However, hat does that piece do and what am I missing? Thanks, digger Though it is binary a bit of poking at it leads me to believe it is some kind of control file for fiasco images (the .bin file you have to open up) that tells the flash installers how to handle all the parts and in what order. No, 2nd, secondary and xloader are parts of the bootloader. Flashing them can brick the device, should something go wrong, since they provide the tablet-side interface to the pc-side flasher program. In general one shouldn't care too much about the bootloader, since it does basic board-specific initialisation, such as pad muxing. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: help!? my N810 seems dead(ish)
On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 09:51 +0200, ext Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote: On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 20:56 -0800, ext Joshua Layne wrote: they have had warranty issues on it. However, a brief search on google shows some fly-by-night places that have it for really cheap (like a few dollars), so I may just pick up a replacement and a spare for the office./; Beware that some of the cheap noname ones might have different voltages - one of my 12V car chargers for example does not charge my N800 at all. It charges 770's and phones just fine. That's weird - N800 and 770 have practically the same chargin interface - HW, SW and battery - and when doing idle chargin their current is comparable. Unless the N800 sw recognises the fake charger and simply refuses to use it :-) Does it show any message, like Not Charging, when you plug in the fake charger? -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: further beating on OS2008 beta
On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 16:37 -0800, ext James Sparenberg wrote: If the software isn't intended to be used by Nokia's customers who is supposed to use it? As a matter of fact we were using the terminal far before it was decided to release it for the users. Not that it shouldn't be available, but your statement wasn't exactly true ;-) Actually I'd be positively surprised if it was made available pre-installed in the final image ... -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: further beating on OS2008 beta
On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 16:47 -0800, ext James Sparenberg wrote: The one thing you haven't heard me or others say is. the question why did you fix something that wasn't broken. I've actually lost screen real-estate (when the bar moved to the bottom.) I've never had to do left-right scrolling unless I turned my font up to 14+ in point size. Yet instead of saying we hear you and let us check with other users I'm getting what to me sounds like shut-up we know what you really need. Originally all I wanted to know was why the changes were made. I didn't ask for arguments and put downs. I wanted to know why since this tool is so integral to why I own an n800/770 (both) in the first place. If I wanted shut-up and like it I'd own a mobile win device. I apologize if my questions annoy you in any way. Without getting so dramatic, you could ask The_Right_Question(TM) which is: Why can't I customize the location of the bar? Don't be selfish, I like the bar to be at the bottom, when i use the hw keyboard ;-) Actually it could even be made so that it changes location depending on availability of hw keyboard (meaning that it stays on the right even on the n810 when it is closed). -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: dual boot with 2007 from device and 2008 from MMC - possible?
Hi, On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 10:29 +0100, ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: Austin Che wrote: I actually had been looking at back-porting kexec into the 2.6.18 kernel. Might be worth trying too, see below But I just recompiled 2.6.21 with kexec on and patched kexec-tools with arm patches and it does not work for me (the screen just goes blank and eventually the whole device reboots). kexec seems to be really quite simple (code-wise) and so I can't imagine it being that difficult to figure out for someone with a clue about omap. I would expect at least two problems: - passing right data (set of tagged structures) that comes from bootloader to new kernel, these are at specific physical address at boot time of first kernel but I think they get freed and overwritten later. - setting hardware back to some harmless state so new kernel can initialize it again properly. This could be quite tricky for OMAP. Best for this it to kexec new kernel as early as possible before full system boot initializes dsp, audio, wlan, bt, camera ... Maybe even some stub kernel with everything uneeded stripped off could improve chances. As for booting 2.6.18 from 2.6.21 one problem may be advanced frequency and voltage scaling which is not present in 2.6.18. Might be worth trying to force CPU clock to 333 (which will hopefully set also other clocks and paremeters correctly) before kexec-ing older kernel so 2.6.18 won't be surprised too much. The frequency scaling is enabled only after the kernel has booted, the default OP is 330MHz, so that shouldn't come in the way. But I wonder if chrooting wouldn't be better: then one could for example run OS2008 from OneNAND and OS2007 from MMC simultaneously and have only those apps that are not available yet for OS2008 to run in the chrooted environment and access the screen simultaneously through X. This is just a thought I had right now, so I don't know how feasible it would be, but might be simpler to try. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: further beating on OS2008 beta
On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 15:41 +, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: On Nov 29, 2007 2:37 PM, Tuomas Kuosmanen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] [...] (remember the N810 has the keyboard so you hold it a bit differently in your hands!) [snip] Because a lot of stuff works differently with the physical keyboard. And because I have no clue if the input method works differently on the N800 with N810 OS release shoehorned into it? :-) I recognise the smiley, but twice in one post you've mentioned UI decisions on OS2008 were primarily determined (or at least justified here) by the presence of the slideout physical keyboard on the N810. Yes, it's the shiny new device but isn't the N800 an equal partner in the Maemo landscape? Developers are part of the testing crowd (which at the beginning is focused especially on HW bugs, since they have the longest lead time and must be fixed asap) and in cases like this, we tend to work mostly on the newest hw, simply because we need as many people as possible to use it. In some cases, even if n810 seems to have the same features of n800, the actual component might have changed sourcing or technology and needs to be verified (usually the first hw revision of a new device comes with several hw components in beta or alpha stage). n810 has also a more refined mechanics and that too required testing and stressing that can be provided only by having a large amount of people using it. (No, unfortunately we cannot accept externals for a tester program ;-) The fact that something might be biased toward the new device is not really intentional, just the byproduct of having a limited amount of people and time. That's part of the reason why the sw release for n800 was scheduled to be available later: no n800 user must perceive the sw update as a step back in terms of quality and performance. Furthermore, having the new devices ready in shops on a certain day means that way before we must have had a sw image deemed good enough for being flashed during production. Once that is achieved, we can focus on purely sw issues. Deploying units in stores has a significantly slower process than uploading the new sw image to the maemo servers. You also have to consider that this is the 1st time we release and support 1 sw for 2 products (the 770 HE came after the release of n800) so the process is far from being mature. This lenghty email is not meant to be a justification, it's just to clarify some of the issues that have to be solved. But stay assured that nobody is neglecting the quality of the n800 experience and, as a matter of fact, we did perform the same amount of official tests (meaning run by System Testing) on both devices. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Problem in 2008 and looking for duplicate
Hi, On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 19:35 -0800, ext James Sparenberg wrote: On Wednesday 28 November 2007 07:32:20 pm James Sparenberg wrote: All, OK. Since I installed 2008 If experienced a marked decrease in batter life. As in total IDLE time is around 1 hour. This is of course not good. So I started looking and I've found that even after a reboot something called metaplayer-crawl is running my cpu constantly at around 94-98% ...However if i do something else like say hit a key on the keyboard. It will play nice release cpu and then climb right back up again. I can't kill it it comes right back at the same high levels. In short. my n800 is all but useless because of this. Is anyone else seeing this? The crawler is well known to go berserk like this when for example the mmc is ext[23] and it has a loop of directories made with symlinks (it doesn't have to be a tight loop). A typical example is having a rootfs on the mmc. You should be able to kill the crawler with the utility dsmetool (stops the respawning). And please file a bug if there isn't one opened already. It would be about time that we support something else than vfat :-/ (That was my opinion, don't take it as a nokia statement ;-) -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Screen protector for N810
Hi, On Fri, 2007-11-23 at 20:32 +0100, ext Klaus Rotter wrote: Hi! Is it possible to use a N800 screen protector for the N810? I am not sure if the N810 has the same screen size as the N800. Maybe someone with a N810 can confirm this. Yes, the N810 screen is exactly the same size of the one in the N800. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Brick after battery dying?
On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 14:39 +, ext Alan Williamson wrote: Igor Stoppa wrote: Hi, On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 14:26 +, ext Alan Williamson wrote: Have you installed _any_ extra software to the device? (WLAN AP that doesn't implement power management properly can be also an issue.) of course! Hasn't everyone? :) but this extra software is not run all the time; they are on-demand as-and-when. For example the RealVNC client, and Canola. Although the onboard mediaplayer handles streaming music just fine so i haven't had the need to use it. i have made moves to try and get the unit replaced/fixed with the supplier. :) I'm afraid you are victim of a wrong assumption. I had a similar discussion with somebodyelse on either this list or maemo-devel. Canola _did_ break sleep. You can search the archives. Before returning your unit you should reflash it with a stock image and check if the problem persists. We do test all the sw that we ship but it takes very little to ruin the uptime when writing code for the tablet. okay however a couple of things to note: 1. Canola has not been physically run in MONTHS! That is the wrong assumption: iirc it installs a web server, which run as daemon, no matter what. 2. The device does not charge; i plug in the power supply and nothing! i have to wiggle and *sometimes* it churps that the battery is charging yes, that's probably a mechanical issue So irrespective of the software on the device, the ability to put in the charger and expect it to charge is not one i would deem unreasonable! sure, i was commenting on the I haven't run canola for months part. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Brick after battery dying?
Hi, On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 18:46 +0300, ext Eero Tamminen wrote: Hi, ext Jonathan D. Proulx wrote: I must say I'm not exactly loving my n800... Battery died while in sleep mode over night (sayd it had days of idle time available but I guess waking up every 10min to scan for wireless killed it). Even with wlan enabled it should last something like 3-4 days, iirc. You should check your access point against those that are blacklisted. You can search for mails from Kalle Valo in the archive. This morning after hours of charging and while plugged in it will not power up. The back light comes onand the screen goes white, once I even got a Nokia logo, then it dies. Does it turn on when you plug in the charger? (I assume that the charger itself is already connected to the wall socket). If it doesn't, then your battery is not charging. I don't know if it is a problem in the device or in the charger, though. That would also explain why it dies, the battery is flat. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: 4.2007.38-2 available
Hi, On Wed, 2007-10-03 at 16:33 +0300, ext Eero Tamminen wrote: Some misc notes of upgrades. I'm pretty sure that the dist-upgrade is going to require tens of MBs of free space to do e.g. because some of the packages are pretty large (check for example the Browser packages in garage). Although the update would be automatic, doing all the package upgrades (downloading saving the packages, then upgrading them etc) will be taking a lot of time. Marius, are we talking about hours here? (During which the device may not run out of free space or battery or you might need to reflash anyway.) Because Chinook release is ABI incompatible[1], the upgrade will break many of the Bora 3rd party packages, so you need anyway to install Chinook versions of them. Therefore dist-upgrade is less useful from Bora to Chinook than people might think. I'd be happy if it could happen in 2 steps: -download to local filesystem (MMC) the critical packages -install from it only if there is enough energy available (full battery or AC power) This still leaves open the path of user removing either the card or the battery but in that case the (potential) bricking is well deserved. Note also that the package alternative to reflashing might not give you everything due to same reason why Debian apt-get dist-upgrade might not be same as re-install[2]. Bootloader, Kernel and initfs should be packaged, but technically nothing is preventing from reflashing them. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: 4.2007.38-2 available
On Wed, 2007-10-03 at 17:23 +0200, ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: Igor Stoppa wrote: Bootloader, Kernel and initfs should be packaged, but technically nothing is preventing from reflashing them. Except that at least current version of OS keeps initfs mounted and runs relatively critical stuff from it. In theory everything should be already cached in RAM but still flashing mtd device while jffs2 uses it may lead to surprises. Could be solved by copying critical binaries to tmpfs early on boot before executing them. BTW documentation for next version talks about cramfs used for initfs http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/maemo_architecture.html#Flash Is this documentation bug or new feature? I don't know about that. Initfs should become read-only (and by any practical mean it already was: there isn't space even for deleting files!) Perhaps we can fit more stuff to cramfs and don't need write access so this is not bad choice (provided it can live in NAND and handle bad blocks). But still cramfs won't solve issue with flashing live system. Ideally we would use some merge fs, and for that there are several possible solutions, but I'm not woking on it, so i won't comment further to avoid mistakes. In general initfs sucks and has been used for speedups in factory. However using a file based approach could apply to initfs too (or its replacement), leaving only the kernel and bootloader to be really flashed without passing through the filesystem. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 16:51 +0100, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: On 8/16/07, Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Applications should stop all visual activity and updates when they are not visible. This is voluntarily, as it naturally depends on the actual use-case e.g. all Nokia apps do this except for media player and iradio applet which play music also backgrounded. If you notice that some 3rd party app has activity although you're not using it and/or it's not visible nor there's no other good reason for it to be active, file a bug against it. Given the importance of this to battery life, it would be cool if apps were sent SIGSUSP when they were minimized or some the user stopped interacting with them. If an application (e.g. media player) wanted to override this behaviour, they could do so in their .desktop file, .service file or osso_initialize() call. No. Apps that do useless stuff are buggy and the bugs must be fixed. You are proposing a shortcut that is encouraging crappy code to be written, since the system will always take care of saying: psst, pretend to be a properly written piece of code. If an application has nothing to do, it _must_ be blocked waiting for something, such as an event, a timer, whatever it cares about, nothing else. Actually we want apps to do that also and especially when they are in foreground as well. Background is no special case. Would you be happy if your foregrounded app would run and drain the battery while it's doing nothing and waiting for you to press a button? That wouldn't really be caught by sending SIGSUSP when backgrounding. Have you ever wondered how come your typical GHz PC can have performance sometimes comparable with an internet tablet? -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Battery Life
On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 17:41 +0100, ext Michael Thompson wrote: On 16/08/07, Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 17:17 +0100, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: On 8/16/07, Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 16:51 +0100, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: snip Battery life eating is a particularly tricky bug to nail down to a single application (or home applet). That's why users shouldn't try a bunch of new apps in one go. Maybe some way to easily share information about battery life would be useful on maemo.org ... Quim: what do you think about extending the rating of applications so that they could cover several aspects, including but not only battery usage? How do we know if an application has good power usage. How do we know what the actual current consumption is? Does the hardware know what current is being consumed from the battery (and can that info be exposed in/proc or the battery applett) or is the battery app guessing based on the battery voltage? There is ongoing work to provide users with graphical information about current consumption. The idea is that when you want to measure an application, you can first do a sort of calibration with a clean system in the state you are interested (i.e. wlan on or off), then install the application to be tested and run gain the measurement. You are proposing a shortcut that is encouraging crappy code to be written, since the system will always take care of saying: psst, pretend to be a properly written piece of code. Yes, I am. On the basis that this is a) easier and b) more likely than getting end-user tools to properly diagnose which applications aren't well behaved. That's not true. Proper tools don't need that. As Eero has already described, it's possible to use existing stats from the system. I'm not sure that strace'ing is very ideal No, but some users and most developers could use it. Powertop is not using such hacks and it works. Users have started complaining with dfevelopers and developers themselves have taken powerto in use. Can we run powertop or equivalent on the N800/Maemo? I'll let Eero answer this. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: one complaint about the Navicore-software
On Sun, 2007-08-12 at 18:48 +0300, ext Marius Gedminas wrote: On Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 06:45:55PM +0300, Marius Gedminas wrote: On Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 10:03:53AM -0500, Ryan Pavlik wrote: File a bug at https://bugs.maemo.org/ Navicore isn't part of the Maemo project, so I doubt that would help. Contacting Navicore itself would be more reasonable. On second thought, Opera isn't open source either, and isn't part of Maemo (but is a part of the Internet Tablet OS), but you can file Opera bugs at bugs.maemo.org and Nokians pass them on to Opera developers. Maybe this would work with Navicore too? There's a subtle difference between opera and other 3rd party apps since opera comes with the standard image, while navicore (or skype) is not part of the bundle. It gets installed by the user. However i see no big problem in filing a bug. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Sudoers
On Fri, 2007-08-10 at 16:44 -0400, ext Dr. Nicholas Shaw wrote: Ok, not finding the warnings until AFTER I screwed up, is there any way to repair /etc/sudoers without reflashing? In trying to run a program that required root, I sudo gainroot and ran the program; however, the program didn't run properly so I changed the permissions from 440 to 660 on sudoers, added an entry and all was good. EXCEPT I didn't change the permissions back. Duh. Now, of course, after logging out of root, I can't log back in as root and 'Application Manager' doesnt work. I'm prepared to flash but would rather not. I have a current backup but I have numerous programs and reloading them will be a royal pain. Thanks in advance for any suggestions/recommendations. Again, I'm prepared for the, you're screwed, dude - reflash. Hopefully it won't come to that... Thanks, Nick. ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Anyone have success with j2me on n800? Using latest firmware...
On Sat, 2007-07-07 at 18:28 -0700, ext Mike Klein wrote: Nokia-N800-26:/media/mmc2/j2me/bin# ./cvm -version -sh: ./cvm: Permission denied Because you are running from the mmc, which is mounted with noexec, iirc -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Instant on Loading
On Sun, 2007-05-06 at 09:49 -0400, ext das manga wrote: Is there a way to enable instant on loading, i use the device to read while commuting, it gets old having to clik though to get the pdf or txt file i was reading. is there a way to save a state, then when the system boots, load the saved state? Just let it on and see how long it takes to run out of battery. i like the nokia 800 but what asshat designed a portable device without instant on? some brain dead zombie i guess. b :-D -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Accuracy of the power meter?
Hi, On Mon, 2007-05-07 at 23:25 -0400, ext Mike Lococo wrote: I've been noticing that I don't get anywhere near the promised 10 days idle battery life on my N800. With bluetooth and the wireless turned off (offline mode), and with the display off and keys/touchscreen locked, I'm getting at best 8-10 hours of idle time before the battery is completely drained. That's definitely weird. I don't get 10 days between charges, but then my N800 is never idle for 10 days at a time. I commonly run 3 days between charges, though, and I'm a fairly active user. Yes, apparently it's somehow problematic to convey the difference between idle and almost idle. To give a rough idea, the power used by the device while being running can be _at_least_ 10 times higher, with peaks in the order of a couple of hundred times. So it's very hard if possible at all to define what is your expected runtime apart from few selected use cases that are using for marketing the device and that we refer to when measuring the power performance. Of course our use-cases are tailored to cover most of the common uses, but it's easy for a power user to come up with some combinatioin of software/use that doesn't allow for proper power saving. I have two theories why at this point. The first is that the battery has gone south, even though it I've only had the N800 for about a month or os. I have seen it happening somehow only to 3 years old batteries from the early 770 era. But that's only my personal experience. The second is that I'm running off a 2gig flash card as my root filesystem instead of the internal flash, per the instructions given in the Maemo wiki. I don't do this. If you don't get a more helpful response, I would run with a stock fs and no applications installed for a day (no fun, but an important troubleshooting step if you're not sure where the problem lies). MMC / SD shouldn't be an issue. Actually the throughput could/should be higher because jffs2 does dynamic compression/decompression while the SD doesn't. Of course there could be a bug in the driver, but history has usually shown that it's some application/service/daemon that is run too often or that does busy loop or similar nasty things. If you still have low standby life in offline/screenlocked mode then you definitely have hardware issues. If not, then you can start introducing variables in a controlled way until you pin down the rogue config/app that's killing your battery life. Please report back so others can learn as well. Yes, that's the only certain way. My advice is to start removing first those apps that are likely to introduce periodic activity. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Alarm
On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 17:15 +0100, ext Sergey Udaltsov wrote: Hi all Is there any way to configure repetitive alarms on N800 to work on weekdays only? I do not want to be waken up early in the morning on Saturday or Sunday - and I am sick of setting the same alarm every night Sunday to Thursday. Just set 5 daily alarms, Mon-Fri with weekly periodicity. And beware of Bank Holidays ;-) -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: RE : Re: Asking about running an executable on the device
On Fri, 2007-03-23 at 19:55 +0530, ext मयंक जैन (makuchaku) wrote: On 3/23/07, magda chelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I copy it from the PC to the mmc, but I don't see it in the device at all!!It does not appears in the device!! So, how can I copy it??? When you connect your N800 to PC via USB, your memory card would be mounted by your linux machine. Copy your executable there unmount. You should be able to access your executable from the osso-xterm on your device. However, if you are expecting to see your file in the file-browser in N800 under MyDocs folder, you should copy your file then to /home/user/MyDocs/.documents or a similar folder. Note also that the memory cards are mounted as noexec. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia Multimedia - CP - OSSO / Helsinki, Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Booting from MMC as a de-bricking method
Hi, On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 13:52 +0100, ext Paule Ecimovic wrote: Hi, all Is it possible to boot from MMC (assuming one sets up this booting option by cloning the 770 on a suitably-large MMC and installing the alternate boot loader and all the rest) to recover from a bricking flash? Are there bricking scenarios from which it is not possible to recover via booting from MMC? If the part of the bootloader that takes care of loadinig the new kernel/image/whatever from USB is damaged and also fails to load the kernel (in fact the device is bricked), then the processor has to be cold flashed and the MMC doesn't help. So yes, there are (very limited) situations when the device can be bricked for good. But iirc somebody has posted inistructions on how to access the serial port. However the whole process wouldn't be exactly straightforward since i'm not sure if the flasher tool that is made public can address cold flashing. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] N800 doesn't charge that well
On Sat, 2007-02-10 at 09:21 -0500, ext Larry Battraw wrote: On 2/9/07, Kahlil Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a N770 and an N800, I have had issues where I leave the N800 charging with the N770 cable and it doesnt charge at all. It doesnt loose power but it doesnt increase it either. When I plug it in, I am able to see the charging icon but when I unplug it, I see that the bars are still on the same position. Anyone has been in this situation? Rebooting might help finding out if it's just a presentation issue (n800 battery icon tries to be smarter than the 770 one but it might be more error prone, or it could be just a different behaviour in the visualisation of the actual charge stored). I haven't personally seen it-- I use both chargers interchangeably, but I've heard of one person that couldn't use the 770 charger with their n800 at all. To the best of my knowledge the chargers are identical Afaik, yes, they are the same model. so I'm not sure why this should be the case unless there was something wrong with the charger. If you plug in your n800 to the n800 charger does it proceed to charge normally if you switch chargers after seeing this behavior? -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] FM Radio -- dependencies?
On Sat, 2007-02-10 at 15:05 -0800, ext Rick Prelinger wrote: My fmradio installation fails because of a missing package: libosso-help0(=2.08). From what I can tell, I believe I have the proper repositories installed. Is this an obvious problem? Many thanks, and all best, Rick Are you running the sw image that came with the device or did you upgrade to the latest available? If i'm not mistaken the one coming on the device (certain ones at least) is pretty old. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: brightness Re: [maemo-users] Re: Storage/Sleep Issues..
On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 17:34 +0100, ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: Karl Bellve wrote: Igor Stoppa wrote: Power saving is not so important when the _energy_ wasted is so little and for an event which is supposed to happen very seldom (you don't turn off your device, don't you?). Every time it crashes! :-) When using the Nokia at night, while watching TV in a dark room, the nokia can be absurdly bright during its reboot process. So bright, I have to face the nokia down on the couch while it reboots. So, the bright light is over whelming when you have the nokia set to its dimmest level because your eyes have adjusted to the dark. Exactly. That is my second (and maybe bigger) concern. Reboot or crash at night is not a pleasant thing. While it is supposed to happen very seldom in reality it is not such rare event. And the backligh really does not consume significant power? Check what i wrote, i wrote _energy_ and i'm gonna restate it: the energy wasted by the backlighing durinig a device boot sequence is not so much, when compared to other things that affect runtime power saving. Even 100 mA over less than 60 seconds are really nothing. Otoh 2 mA over few days are _a lot_ I thought it can be half of power consumption on such devices. It was like that on ipaq 3870 I had. I remeber something like 80mA when display off ~130mA minimum brightness ~200mA full brightness, ~300mA full brightness + 100%CPU (not sure about exact values, it is long time ago, it was available as file in /proc in Familiar linux). On N770 I cannot check easily since some parts of power management is ... guess what? There is this myth about hidden power management ;-) Nothinig prevents you from creating a sysfs entry wich returns tahvo_get_backlight_level() or even a proc one, if you really are into that sort of thing. But anyway is there some real reason while the default cannot be much lower until device boots to the point where user specified setting is honored? Frantisek No, just nobody so far had complained so much and from am effectiveness standpoint, it's irrelevant to power saving. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: brightness Re: [maemo-users] Re: Storage/Sleep Issues..
On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 13:08 +0100, ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: Igor Stoppa wrote: I thought it can be half of power consumption on such devices. It was like that on ipaq 3870 I had. I remeber something like 80mA when display off ~130mA minimum brightness ~200mA full brightness, ~300mA full brightness + 100%CPU (not sure about exact values, it is long time ago, it was available as file in /proc in Familiar linux). On N770 I cannot check easily since some parts of power management is ... guess what? There is this myth about hidden power management ;-) Nothinig prevents you from creating a sysfs entry wich returns tahvo_get_backlight_level() or even a proc one, if you really are into that sort of thing. There is such entry - /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level I meant way to get discharge current from battery circuit to know what is actual consumption of the device and how big is the influence of various parts. This is easy to get on laptops and it was possible on iPAQ but is currently kept very close to Nokia's chest. I think you won't see this information made available anytime soon for a very good reason: there is a significant risk that somebody uses this knowledge to write malicious software that literally blows the device by doing nasty thinigs with the battery and Nokia would be liable if it was releasing such information. This is also behind the clause about reverse engineering. One has to prove that we made it hard for him to get such information, so that we are not liable when he blows hiimself up with a modified 770/n800. Yes one can measure it but it would need some tools, reading some register is much easier. Would be also good guide for programmers implementing proper idle state. We are tryinig to figure out something similar, without risk. But your statement is mostly for kernel side. Applications can use the methods already described. I would be interested in difference betwen SD/MMC vs internal flash I/O (i.e. how does rootfs on MMC affect battery life) but other things are equally interesting to know (wlan transmit/receive, sound, DSP on, DSP vs main CPU doing similar stuff ...). It requires a little hw hacking, but you can measure them quite easily with a good enough power meter (precise to mA) and some wiring. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: brightness Re: [maemo-users] Re: Storage/Sleep Issues..
On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 14:48 -0800, ext James Sparenberg wrote: On Thursday 25 January 2007 04:38, Igor Stoppa wrote: On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 13:08 +0100, ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: Igor Stoppa wrote: I thought it can be half of power consumption on such devices. It was like that on ipaq 3870 I had. I remeber something like 80mA when display off ~130mA minimum brightness ~200mA full brightness, ~300mA full brightness + 100%CPU (not sure about exact values, it is long time ago, it was available as file in /proc in Familiar linux). On N770 I cannot check easily since some parts of power management is ... guess what? There is this myth about hidden power management ;-) Nothinig prevents you from creating a sysfs entry wich returns tahvo_get_backlight_level() or even a proc one, if you really are into that sort of thing. There is such entry - /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level I meant way to get discharge current from battery circuit to know what is actual consumption of the device and how big is the influence of various parts. This is easy to get on laptops and it was possible on iPAQ but is currently kept very close to Nokia's chest. I think you won't see this information made available anytime soon for a very good reason: there is a significant risk that somebody uses this knowledge to write malicious software that literally blows the device by doing nasty thinigs with the battery and Nokia would be liable if it was releasing such information. This is also behind the clause about reverse engineering. One has to prove that we made it hard for him to get such information, so that we are not liable when he blows hiimself up with a modified 770/n800. I'm sorry but if the above were a valid reason then I would highly recommend that Nokia shut down it's doors. No amount of effort on Nokia's part will halt malicious lawsuits. Period. Advice registered. Period. Further the above is invalid if not only because you are using OSS as your base and it is governed by a legally tested license, but also because people are asking for access to public information not anything proprietary and bound by NDA's. If you are modifying OSS and choose intentionally to refuse to divulge modifications to this software please let me know. If only you would have spent some time reading (this thread, for example) before writing ... but one cannot expect such courtesy from everybody. James Yes one can measure it but it would need some tools, reading some register is much easier. Would be also good guide for programmers implementing proper idle state. We are tryinig to figure out something similar, without risk. But your statement is mostly for kernel side. Applications can use the methods already described. I would be interested in difference betwen SD/MMC vs internal flash I/O (i.e. how does rootfs on MMC affect battery life) but other things are equally interesting to know (wlan transmit/receive, sound, DSP on, DSP vs main CPU doing similar stuff ...). It requires a little hw hacking, but you can measure them quite easily with a good enough power meter (precise to mA) and some wiring. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: Storage/Sleep Issues..
Hi! On Sun, 2007-01-21 at 22:45 +, ext Neil MacLeod wrote: Larry Battraw wrote: On 1/19/07, John P. Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All, How does one sleep the N800 or is it required? I have been just stuffing it in the sleeve, but sometimes it comes back out lit up. I wonder if I am using battery that I could save. Try hitting the power button and selecting lock touch screen and keys. Otherwise it's definitely going to turn the screen on every time it's bumped. Larry Larry - have a look at these two bugs for information and a possible temporary solution: https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=943 https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=959 Either way, a better and more effective solution is needed to put the N800 into a locked and wireless-disabled state that could be achieved by replacing the 770's cover. @Nokia: If anyone from Nokia could take a look at Bugzilla it would be appreciated - Bugzilla seems to have been ignored for at least a week now (voting doesn't work on N800-specific bugs, for instance - bug #944). fwiw I took a look (but don't get excited, I'm not really into UI stuff) and my comment is that although i personally agree and have suffered from the same problem, your bug is basically againist UI design, so it's harder to prove that it's a bug, compared to, for example: when I ask for offline mode, the device remains online You are questioning the specs, not their implementation. If you have time and the knowledge, I would recommend to try to do your fix and submit it as a patch that, without compromiising the original functionality, improves it, for example adding an option to the power menu. Then it will be probably easier to have your request satisfied. In the worst case i can assure you that you'll have at least one user (me =) for the patch. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: Storage/Sleep Issues..
On Sun, 2007-01-21 at 23:42 +, ext Neil MacLeod wrote: [snip] Sadly I don't have the skills/knowledge. I wouldn't know where to start! The problem highlighted by bug #959 is probably rooted deep in the bowels of the (non-open source) power management, and I don't even know if the Display applet is open sourced. No, the power management _is_ open source, since it's basically all in the kernel. What is not included in the kernel is just the inactivity_timeout_expired = blank screen action, and nothing else. There is this myth about hidden power management. Well, there isn't any. The mantra of power management is: All the resources belong to the system and have to be kept busy for as short as possible, and only when it's really necessary. Therefore it _has_ to be inkernel because of the shorter latencies. Of course every application/library must be power management friendly, but again, it's not hidden stuff. Check the thread about battery life: i gave detailed explanation about it. As for the cover-on functionality discussed in bug #943, I'm looking for ideas that could be implemented - again I don't have the skills to implement these ideas, I'm just a humble end user that doesn't fit in with the Nokia always on philosophy (well actually, my employer doesn't agree with the Nokia stance either!) A number of end users also disagree about the inability to rapidly put the N800 into a 770-type cover-on state - Nokia really have goofed here. :( Then it will be probably easier to have your request satisfied. In the worst case i can assure you that you'll have at least one user (me =) for the patch. Trust me, we're not alone - there are many who have complained (if only were voting were enabled against N800 bugs in Bugzilla we may even have some stats to back that up!) I guess it will be soon, I see no reason why it shouldn't. Unfortunately we don't have infinite manpower. Unfortunately I won't be able to submit patches for these two bugs, but if they're not addressed in future firmware - particularly the lack of a cover-on shortcut, bug #943 - then I think I will have to begin questioning the motives and outlook of Nokia when it so clearly flies in the face of their customers. Again, it's a matter of prioritising; everybody who takes the hassle of submitting a bug thinks that it's important. And probably it is. Then somebody else has to decide what has to be fixed first. It doesn't happen only to external bugs, even for us internally, one files a bug and finally gets it fixed after a month or so because something else had higher priority. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: Battery Benchmarking?
On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 08:54 +, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: On 1/13/07, Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 23:00 +, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: Indeed, and that's a Good Thing. I think we're just trying to make it clear (although I'm sure you already realise this) that pitching it as on always on device could backfire if you end up having to recharge it every 4 hours (for example); solely from a marketing perspective. I hope you'll conceed us that, although there is the risk to fail in the implementation, we wouldn't try to implement a feature if there isn't a decent chance to pull it out properly. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: Battery Benchmarking?
On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 09:55 +0100, ext Zoran Kolic wrote: Otoh many people do keep their cell phone on and probably would like to do the same with n800 or 770. Same applies to the pc used to read emails. OK, Igor. Fair enough. But, now I got you. 770 has no firewall. I'm not paranoid, but it is must_have for long on the line. 770 has stateless iptables. I use another unix branch for everyday surf, mailing, doing whatever. Laptop and desktop have statefull firewall for filtering. It is transparent, till I take a look into the logs. I know that if you don't have port open, noone can harm you. Wrong. You have ports open. You surf, you mail. Anyone could be man in the middle and take your shiny new gadget. WEP is easy to walk around, just see wifitap. I have 770 for a month and tried to get respond on this subject. Implemented iptables is not the one from netfilter manual. So: - who could clear the topic for me? - could end user get more kernel modules from nokia, not to go into recompile and find correct versions of kernel and all environment? I don't make an atack on your stance. I have mine and feel quite happy. I don't think I have enough knowledge on the subject to give a proper answer so i won't. Hopefully you'll get an answer from somebody from the Connectivity team. As a generic observation though, let me point out that your tipical accesspoint should already provide support, like firewalling. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: Battery Benchmarking?
On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 07:44 +0100, ext Nicola Larosa wrote: Igor Stoppa wrote: Lol, so I guess that all of you guys switch off your mobile phone before going to bed, right? What's so funny about that? That's the very least. My cellphone is always off when I'm home, since I don't need it there. Don't assume that everybody has a landline phone. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: Battery Benchmarking?
On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 15:58 +0100, ext Zoran Kolic wrote: Always ON is great for geeks too -- often when somebody asks some question about the contents of the filesystem on the 770, I try to ssh into it to take a look. Having to pull it out of the pocket, slide the cover off, and click three times to get online is annoying. 770 as a mainframe? As times go by, looks that nokia and comunity have different views on nature of device. On the other hand I am not willing to trade battery life of 24 hours of casual use for always on. Nobody does. What it makes in deed when I sleep? Lol, so I guess that all of you guys switch off your mobile phone before going to bed, right? Zoran ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: Battery Benchmarking?
On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 07:23 +0100, ext Zoran Kolic wrote: Lol, so I guess that all of you guys switch off your mobile phone before going to bed, right? Huh! You got me! I sleep from time to time. Anyway, do you switch off your digital camera or wait for it to talk to you in the night? Unfortunately my camera is such a cheap model that it has no connectivity and therefore i cannot use it to receive calls/messages/mail, so yes, I keep the thinig off, since i would not be interested inito automatically generated messages. When you sold me 770 and let me make miracle to get it in my location, I presume I have right to use it the way I like. Correct? Zoran So who's forcing you to keep it on? Otoh many people do keep their cell phone on and probably would like to do the same with n800 or 770. Same applies to the pc used to read emails. Why not providing the functionality? -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?
Hi Tim! On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 19:07 +0100, ext Tim Teulings wrote: Hello! the apps you have installed are buggy and generate activity and i mean any type of activity, 1% CPU load is still too much: if the app is idle, it must have 0% CPU activity What does that exactly mean (especially for non GTK-based applications like mine that cannot expect some GTK magic)? First of all my deepest and most sincere thanks for this question. So maybe for once it won't look like i just rant against application developers. Say for example I have an editor with has a blinking cursor. The GUI library internally uses select with a timer as main event loop. Does above statement mean, that my application is still running and select still lopping and timer can run out and the cursor still blinks while I put the cover on the device? Let's take the editor example and see it throughthe whole sw stack. *First of all the timer you are using from userspace is mapped to a queue in the kernel, which in turns uses a hw timer. *The kernel has _NON_ periodic system tick timer, meaning that system ticks are skipped when there is no activity scheduled. (So that means that if nothing perturbs the state of the system, it won't wake up, even if the cover is not present and you are looking at a static image of the text in your editor. As a matter of fact it does wake up every now and then, but the number of times can be approximated with 0, when compared to a system where there is a interrupt every tick.) *select will be (hopefully) implemented in a sane way that doesn't busy loop, but rather relies again on asynchronous events (notification from the kernel that the timer has expired) and therefore the library code shouldn't generate unnecessary activity. *finally the editor application: personally i consider blinking cursors to be evil, however putting aside personal feelings, in general it makes sense to do screen updates only when they are visible. So if the cover is on, what good is to update the blinking cursor? Same applies to cover off (open) but screen blanked. Again nobody will enjoy your nice blinking effect but that will cause the processor to periodically wake up. Certainly not for long, but if I may quote Depeche Mode, Everything Counts in a Large Amount I always assumed that it goes in some kind of hibernate mode where machine state is (nearly) completely frozen, Yes and no: -yes because it does go to hw specific power saving states -no because it is transparent to sw (well, most of it and certainly user space stuff) and if the sw doesn't keep quiet, the power saving state won't be reached. (Actually there are significant differencies between omap1710 and omap2420, with the latter having finer granularity of what hw blocks can sleep and how.) but your statement sounds like it just switches of some stuff of while CPU is still running? I consider the OFF button on your everyday PDA just smoke in the eyes. Many people have compleined for the absence of a hybernate functionality. They have not understood that we are already doing it dynamically. All the time, at _runtime_, not just when the user presses the OFF button. Of course it takes more effort, but that's the way to go, since modern mobile processors would have ridiculous use-times if they were running constantly at full power. Or the size of the battery would become incredibly large. How can I work around this? *Don't do unnecessary stuff *Don't poll *Don't busyloop *Check system state (by listening for events, again, never poll) *Keep updates at minimum *Do updates only if your application is visible, otherwise completely stop updating the UI till you become again king of the hill Do I need to catch DBus events to get informed that I have to go in some application specific low power mode? Yes, screen blanked should be enough. Also because N800 doesn't have a cover, but certainly that doesn't prevent us to do the very same power saving that was already available on 770. :-D The cover would just be the cause for an _immediate_ rather than timed screen blanking. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: Battery Benchmarking?
On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 13:35 +0100, ext Nicola Larosa wrote: I do appreciate your post about kernel timers, polling, and app developer responsibilities, and heartily hope you're being sarcastic here. Put another way, who gives a [] about the fashion of the day? Look at it this way: Nokia will provide to hopefully gazillions of happy customers a linux based device which meets their needs and to thousands of geeks the opportunity to customise it to fit their needs as well. What's the catch? Try selling only few units and have fun seeing the price skyrocket. So mass marketing of fashionable (yes, very fancy and trendy) devices makes the price deflate for your average geek. Personally I think that we (as the part of Nokia that takes care of the design of the device in its base components) should just worry about not putting constraints in front of hackers when creating products. Then whoever doesn't feel satisfied with what we provide can have a go with his own implementation. Yes, we gave up the shrink division and hired more developers :-D No, unfortunately that's only my wild dream. Good thing the programmers are *not* running the asylum. ;-P No, somebody has to provide a reason to keep it open. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?
On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 13:51 +0100, ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: Igor Stoppa wrote: Hi Tim! On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 19:07 +0100, ext Tim Teulings wrote: How can I work around this? *Don't do unnecessary stuff *Don't poll *Don't busyloop *Check system state (by listening for events, again, never poll) *Keep updates at minimum *Do updates only if your application is visible, otherwise completely stop updating the UI till you become again king of the hill Thanks Igor for nice explanation, what about using threads? For n770 some time ago people said that using threads (linuxthreads) caused some unneeded cpu activity caused by the library itself. Is it still the case? Are there any other similar gotchas present in the SW stack (glibc/X/gtk)? Yes, I remember that, but probably Eero has a much better answer already available, so i'll let him the honour. I tend to prefer the thread approach but for coding and reliability reasons, but that's probably personal taste. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?
On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:19 +0100, ext Frederic Crozat wrote: Le mardi 09 janvier 2007 à 13:50 +0200, Igor Stoppa a écrit : Guys, I have no idea how you are able to get 7 to 9 days with a N770 : mine is only able to last about 4 days maximum (and it has always been like that), only boot up and with cover on it, doing nothing. I only have terminal (not opened) and canola (not running). rotfl that's exactly what i meant: oh, i have only this little harmless innocent application Either -A the apps you have installed are buggy and generate activity and i mean any type of activity, 1% CPU load is still too much: if the app is idle, it must have 0% CPU activity or -B the apps are doing thir job, which doesn't come for free and therefore the runtime time is reduced When I say 9 days, it is with stock image and no app running, that's how the idle time has to be measured. Otherwise we speak in terms of usetime and that can vary from several days to few hours, depending on the system load, peripherals used and bugs in the sw stack. We spend lot of time squashing power consumption bugs, but unfortunately at the moment it's not possible to go also after 3rd party sw. However we have published our internal coding guidelines, which cover also power management. When an application is ported to maemo, attention should be payed to bugs which are not functional but affect use time. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?
On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 14:36 +0200, Igor Stoppa wrote: On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:19 +0100, ext Frederic Crozat wrote: Le mardi 09 janvier 2007 à 13:50 +0200, Igor Stoppa a écrit : Guys, I have no idea how you are able to get 7 to 9 days with a N770 : mine is only able to last about 4 days maximum (and it has always been like that), only boot up and with cover on it, doing nothing. I only have terminal (not opened) and canola (not running). [snip] What about daemons/libraries that you might have installed and affect the runtime? -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Battery Benchmarking?
On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 16:38 +0200, ext Amichai Rotman wrote: Thanks Igor, I also thoght somewhere along those lines, but - is there a way to prevent it? Is there a way to lock the power button? No, in the end there has to be a way to wake up the device. It's a feature of the electrical design. You are allowed to not be happy about size and placement of the power button, but that's it. I am pretty sure it's not in RD mode - how do I make sure? with the flasher tool you can forcefully disable it, just in case, but you would get plenty of diagnostic info if it was in rd mode. Hope this helps. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO /Helsinki Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Am I beeing ignored?
On Sun, 2006-11-19 at 14:59 +0200, ext Amichai Rotman wrote: Hi All, I have posted two different questions in two different occasions and none of them were answered. A I being ignored?! please don't get touchy; just because you ask, that doesn't mean people know the answer you are seeking personally i keep quiet if i cannot be of any help, and let more knowledgeable ones do the explanation I assume everybody just did it I didn't get even a referral to a better suited mailing list... try maemo-devel My questions were (AFAIK - not OFF Topic): How can I add a Hebrew locale (HE_IL, ISO8859-8, UTF8) to the repositories Is it possible to change the behaviour of the Menu hardware key while at Home to open the main menu instead of the context menu for the home screen... -- Cheers Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] NFS on Nokia 770 IT2006?
Hi, On Fri, 2006-11-10 at 15:14 +, ext Andrew Flegg wrote: Big Fat Warning: Please note that this is solely my personal opinion, not Nokia. However the response has been typical of the well-known problems with Nokia's development process. You'll garner more community understanding if you don't just say please wait, but explain: * what the issues are; * how the community can help mitigate them in this case; * how the community can help prevent them recurring in future; While you are certainly right to ask for the source code, what do you think that our interest in not provide it immediately would be? On our side there might have been some naiveness in trying to push out the binary as soon as it was available, since it wasn't blocked by anything but the GPL constraint, whose _spirit_ we are trying very hard to uphold. Ianal but frankly i doubt any of the community can contribute with speeding up that side. Simply because it requires somebody with an NDA with Nokia. Certainly we would be happy to get some help =) But it's probably not feasible. Said this, the only %100 GPL compliant option left would have been to delay the binary. Which is apparently what you are asking with all these whining. From our side there's all the possible goodwill to improve things, but sometimes coding is the easier part. This is the best that has been possible so far. Take it or leave it. -- Cheers Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] power management
On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 11:07 +, ext Gavin O' Gorman wrote: On 11/8/06, Lionel Besson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, You can find the parameters timeout_wlan, timeout_dun_cs and timeout_dun_ps in /system/osso/connectivity via gconftool. These parameters are accessible via the Connection manager Tools Connectivity settings Idle times and seems to be related with your problem (but i haven't tried them enough to assure you that it's gonna work) Ok, Thanks for those replies, I'll play around with them and see what I can achieve Gavin, I don't remember the details for connectivity power management, but my advice is to not force the LCD on unless you have a real need for it: it really sucks lots of power and connectivity should provide its means to keep the radio on. If not, then it's a bug. -- Cheers Igor Stoppa [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere Finland) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] RD mode
On Thu, 2006-10-19 at 13:08 +0200, ext [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Talking of which. I haven't been following the latest progress on the RD mode for the 770, but last time I switched my unit into RD it broke. :-( Like many other people I had the white screen of death after that. I got the screen repaired by NOKIA (France) together with a nice comment stating something like Don't do that, naughty boy, cause we wont repair it twice. What's the common idea today? Is it (relatively) sure to put it in RD, or is it still as delicate as it used to be? RD mode doesn't affect the screen, but as it has been stated already on this ml, when you enable RD mode you have to reboot. This triggers sometimes the failure in buggy units. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Problem: automatic boot from off state
On Tue, 2006-09-26 at 16:22 +0200, ext Antonio Orlando wrote: Yes it is OK to use the device when it is charging. Good. But more details are needed to debug the problem. Sure, I'll help as much as possible. - Could you share with us the version of software you are running. (Control Panel - Device - About Product). Internet Tablet OS 2006 edition Version: 1.2006.26-8 (the official OS2006 firmware) - Have you installed any 3rd-party applications? (Application Manager - Show installed applications) Yes of course. Here it is the complete list as shown in the Application manager: btaudit 0.1-1 btscanner 2.1-2.1 gizmo-project 1.0.0.34 kismet 2006.04.R1-1.1.2006.08.30dev leafpad 0.8.9-2indt1 libncurses5 5.4-4 midnightcommander 4.6.1 minimo 0.16.5-2 ncurses-base 0.16.5-2 oboe-home 1.0 osso-xterm 0.13 python2.4-runtime 0.2-1 sobexsrv 1.0.0pre4-1 themes-12pt 0.1-2 xournal 0.3.1-indt3 They all work fine. Moreover, I installed dropbear, but I've removed it and installed OpenSSH (which can't be seen from the Application manager), working fine too. No other apps I've installed/uninstalled, as far as I can remember. - How do you switch OFF the device? I push the on/off hardware button on the up side of the device, see the Device mode window asking what to do, select Switch off! and press the OK button. - Can you install xterminal and send us the output of /proc/bootreason? I've tried to type /proc/bootreason in the terminal, both as user and as root, but it says: /bin/sh: /proc/bootreason: Permission denied how did you get root? you could try with ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hope this is normal. By the way, I've read the content of the file /proc/bootreason through SCP, and it is just the line: pwr_key (a blank line following) But, this time I had turned it on the normal way, i.e. it was off and I've manually turned it on. I'll let you know the content of the file when the problem occurs and I can use it without manually turning it on after having switched it off. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop (Task Navigator, Home, Status bar)?
On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 21:41 +0300, ext Marius Gedminas wrote: On Fri, Aug 18, 2006 at 08:15:12PM +0300, Igor Stoppa wrote: On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 18:09 +0100, ext Peter Robinson wrote: snip - Expanded power management. This is more kernel than actual UI but some of the things that I've seen around for projects like OLPC where if the sound driver isn't used for a couple of seconds its shut down etc. Things like the USB port, in the general scheme of things, aren't used very often so could (not sure if they are all ready) be shut down most of the time to save battery (saw a blog entry somewhere where someone played with the shutdown of usb when not in use and saved a couple of watts). Done already, check the power management and drivers code. Next? Cool! By the way, I remember hearing somewhere that in OS2005 if you had the audio player open and paused, the device would not enter into a full power savings mode and would drain the battery faster. Is this fixed in OS2006? We already had a timeout workaround in place, which worked in most of the cases, but it is fixed properly in OS2006. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: [maemo-developers] Future features for Maemo Desktop (Task Navigator, Home, Status bar)?
On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 18:09 +0100, ext Peter Robinson wrote: snip - Expanded power management. This is more kernel than actual UI but some of the things that I've seen around for projects like OLPC where if the sound driver isn't used for a couple of seconds its shut down etc. Things like the USB port, in the general scheme of things, aren't used very often so could (not sure if they are all ready) be shut down most of the time to save battery (saw a blog entry somewhere where someone played with the shutdown of usb when not in use and saved a couple of watts). Done already, check the power management and drivers code. Next? Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Metal case for Nokia 770
On Tue, 2006-07-11 at 17:39 -0300, ext Adilson Oliveira wrote: Igor Stoppa escreveu: On Tue, 2006-07-11 at 22:16 +0200, ext Laurent MARTIN wrote: http://shop.brando.com.hk/bwmetalcase_details.php?i=74 Good idea, but I would like to know what's the radio efficiency considering the metallic shielding :-/ It's aluminium so this should not be a problem. True, still the original cover is mostly alluminum and plastic, but it is designed so that it does not interfere with the internal antenna. Theroetically the performance should not be significantly affected, since the permeability of aluminum is roughly the same as the air, however it might have some impact on battery life if used from within the box, especially closed. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Metal case for Nokia 770
On Tue, 2006-07-11 at 13:59 -0700, ext August Joki wrote: Does it interface with the 770 the same way where when you slide the cover over the lcd (in this case, close the lid) the 770 will go into a low power state? i don't know, but power saving is almost independent from the cover: if the cover is absent it is triggered by the screen blanking timeout. The original cover simply: -blanks the screen immediately -disables active connections -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Metal case for Nokia 770
On Tue, 2006-07-11 at 14:47 -0700, ext George Farris wrote: On Tue, 2006-11-07 at 23:55 +0300, Igor Stoppa wrote: On Tue, 2006-07-11 at 17:39 -0300, ext Adilson Oliveira wrote: Igor Stoppa escreveu: On Tue, 2006-07-11 at 22:16 +0200, ext Laurent MARTIN wrote: http://shop.brando.com.hk/bwmetalcase_details.php?i=74 Good idea, but I would like to know what's the radio efficiency considering the metallic shielding :-/ It's aluminium so this should not be a problem. True, still the original cover is mostly alluminum and plastic, but it is designed so that it does not interfere with the internal antenna. Theroetically the performance should not be significantly affected, since the permeability of aluminum is roughly the same as the air, however it might have some impact on battery life if used from within the box, especially closed. Unfortunately this is not true. The performance of the cover does degrade the signal somewhat. I can consistently get a good signal from my sundeck with the cover off but put the cover on and it is not true. Next time I'm in the shop I'll check it with a field strength meter. http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6268618501.html from the first picture you can see the antenna, on the top of course it's a problem of occlosure between the antenna and the hotspot, but only 1 side of it is affected by the cover, so mostly it is surrounded by transparent plastic, wether the cover is present or not. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Display Issues
On Fri, 2006-06-23 at 17:45 -0700, ext Aaron Patterson wrote: On Fri, Jun 23, 2006 at 08:54:47PM +0300, Eugene Sandulenko wrote: Yes, that's it, and it has nothing to do with firmware upgrade, the real reason is rebooting. It is known defect of some panels and your panel should be replaced by warranty. Thanks for the info! Now I just have to exercise my warranty. Hopefully that won't be too tough. :-( Hopefully not. Btw, it might depend on the specific law in your country, but it's worth checking if you can have the shipping to the service point reimbursed. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: standby problem
On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 10:16 +0200, ext Fabio Forno wrote: On 6/11/06, Fabio Forno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've bought a new 770 and the device refuses to go standby, switching itself off after 30 seconds of inactivity and forcing me to reboot each time. I've tried to flash the last image from Nokia, but the problem still remains. Is there a way for controlling the standby behaviour or anybody else noticed the same problem (I've found nothing about it in the ML)? One more detail about this issue. When I try to force it to go stanby by sending the command echo -n standby /sys/power/state the device turns off and for few seconds it is also impossible to turn it on pressing the power button. Do you think this may be an hardware related issue? One more question: which is the purpose of the sleep_while_idle file in the same directory? Hi, that entry enables/disables _the_ power saving feature of 770, which is, surprise, surprise, sleeping while idle, meaning that it is not suspend-based. Therefore you don't have to do anything with /sys/power/state. Btw, have you tried tapping on the screen when it switches itself off? And if that doesn't help, do you get any low battery message? Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] MMC partitions w/ ITOS2006
On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 18:18 +0300, ext Kimmo Hämäläinen wrote: On Mon, 2006-06-12 at 17:47, ext Frantisek Dufka wrote: opening door physically disabled mmc interface and device nodes were not available i.e. you couldn't mount inserted card until door is closed. That was caused by a kernel patch that disabled polling of the MMC until the MMC cover is closed. (That makes sense to save power, but prevents usage of full-size MMC.) I'm not sure if the same patch is coming to the sales release. MMC polling only on open cover should still be present in the sales release, if not, please let me know =) Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Constantly rebooting
Hi, On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 09:31 -0400, ext Jeremy Mcnicoll wrote: Is there a way to restore my 770 if after scp'n a big file to my 770 I now have it constantly restarting? Can I use the flasher to restore it? Yes, flasher should be enough. Is there a magical key sequence that will allow me to blank out the flash? help? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Display failure :-/
On Mon, 2006-04-17 at 19:05 +0200, ext Agnoletti, Klaus (DK - Copenhagen) wrote: Hello, I got struck by the display failure too - I put my tablet in the charger, and the next time I turned it on, the display was fucked : very blurry, text looks weird, and photos are unwatchable.. My problem now is what to do - I have tried to find out where to send it, but I have so far been unsuccessfull - is it possible to get it fixed at an authorized Nokia repairshop as with phones ? I live in Denmark, and so far Nokia Denmark hasn't been able to help me. Does anyone here know what to do ? Thanks... Hi, you might want to ask the Nokia Customers Support (phone number and email should be in your manual or nokia website). -- Deloitte Disclaimer - This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. The above statement is not really meaningful when posting to mailing lists ... -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Display failure :-/
On Mon, 2006-04-17 at 19:15 +0200, ext Agnoletti, Klaus (DK - Copenhagen) wrote: Hello Igor, Hi, Thanks for the help - but that's what I did - they could just give me a phonenummer to an authorized repairshop.. I had the feeling that the person I talked to barely knew that I was NOT talking about a phone.. :-O I suppose it's because of the 7710, which _is_ a phone but has large touchscreen as well. But having the device serviced is really the only option you have. So that's why they couldn't tell you more: there isn't anything else to say apart from the fact that if the LCD is broken, it has to be replaced. The persons in here who had the problem, seems to all have send their tablet back to Nokia, so I assumed thats what I have to do too.. but Nokia is a big shop with many adresses :). Because of the holidays I have not been able to call some of the repairshops, but i'll do that tomorrow... so if that doesn't help me, I have no idea what to do.. It should help ... afaik nobody has complained after following that procedure. -- Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] usb-storage.ko for the Nokia
On Wed, 2006-04-12 at 14:09 +0200, ext Marc McGuinness wrote: Hello folks, I tried to follow this thread, but I'm not sure, if I fully understood everything. - Does this mean, I can connect and use my self powered 400GB hard drive on my 770? - Does it also mean, I can use my USB stick on my 770? Would I need a powered USB hub for this purpose? Best regards, Marc Hi, to make it simple, even if it can act as master, it requires to be powered, like a gadget. So you need something like a modified or special hub (somebody posted a couple of monts ago about a german webshop selling this sort of hub) that can feed power to both sides. Therefore, unless your HD can act as a power source (unlikely, imho, but check its specs) you still need that sort of hub. Cheers, Igor Igor Stoppa (Nokia M - OSSO / Tampere) Bob Lees wrote the following on 11.04.2006 22:39: Thanks Larry. I must have missed that bit about using sysctl. That's the bit I was missing Bob On Tuesday 11 April 2006 21:06, Larry Battraw wrote: On 4/11/06, Bob Lees [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would echo David's original question, is there any reason why the OTG mode could not be used to switch from master to slave mode, driven from a command or voltage sensing on the 770. After all as has been noted elsewhere the 770 needs 5volts supply fed to it when in master mode so something in the 770 is already sensing this. Or put another way why do we have to use flasher to switch USB modes? Actually the flasher will force USB host mode all the time, but it's not necessary. Obviously USB slave mode is the default, but it's a matter of a single command to make it switch to host mode (until the next reboot). I created a script that runs every reboot to switch it into host mode, as it's easier to edit the script on the fly than reflash when I need slave mode. As I believe has been mentioned elsewhere, you run the command echo host /sys/devices/platform/tahvo-usb/otg_mode (as root) in the terminal or a shell script to switch to host mode. Maybe it will make it into the BT keyboard plugin someday, since everything else seems to be relocating there :-) Larry ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: New software version with VOIP built in - Soon
Hi, On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 13:02 -0500, ext John B. Holmblad wrote: Igor, I think that is one reason why the standard configuration only turns on one radio on the device at a time, although I understand there is a registry hack to surmount that limitation at the expense of higher battery drain. The antenna is shared and wlan can disrupt bt communications. In fact on Communicator phones, for example, you get a warning if you try to use a voip application over wlan with a bt headset. And think of the possibilities. If you could find a way to turn the 802.11 into Access Point mode, you could then offer impromptu WIFI access and bridge users WIFI to the mobile provider's EVDO broadband data service. Of course the mobile providers would not like that and, no doubt, have prohibitions against such muxing in their acceptable use agreements. And for this device, at least, I don't even think they support/allow bridging a single laptop via bluetooth or WIFI, but that may change. Legal reasons apart, there are also technical issues that need to be taken into account. Best Regards, John Holmblad Televerage International GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM (H) 703 620 0672 (M) 703 407 2278 (F) 703 620 5388 primary email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] backup email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wwwpage for texting: www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad text email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Igor Stoppa wrote: Hi, On Tue, 2006-02-21 at 06:59 -0500, ext John B. Holmblad wrote: Klaus, I would be interested to learn why Nokia chose the TI OMAP1710 processor. I assume it was because of its integral DSP support as well as support for multiple comms interfaces [clip] Battery , Type: Removable 1350 mAh Lithium-lon What's the uptime of this device? That's a significant parameter to compare ... battery tells about potential but isn't really significant without knowing how it is used. -- Igor Stoppa, Nokia M / Tampere Finland ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
