[Marxism] THE CRISIS GROWS
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Surely, from the point of view of the (multi-millionaire) capitalist the crisis not only keeps on growing, but it keeps on growing with improved possibilities of making a killing! First Greece - there's an opportunity for upping the % on sovereign debt - AND we took it, in such a way that ensured there would be a new opportunity - WHERE? Of course, Ireland - Just waiting for the plucking !! And did we pluck it !! Up the % from Greece and do it again. Where next shall we try ? Obviously first Portugal, then Spain They are already in turmoil Then, of course, next after them is Britain, Belgium and France. Meanwhile even Germany is getting fed up with supporting the Euro (cf. Merkel), so EVERYTHING is going our way. A really terrific KILLING. (evidently Hitler WAS right - all depends on the German Supermensch) Unfortunately those youngsters studying at those troublesome institutes known as Universities are causing a rumpus just because they may be asked to PAY a little more for their so-called education. There's a simple answer to that: kettle [a new word, not yet in the OED, but coined, helpfully, by our helpful journalists] them where they are protesting, and keep them there until they are prepared to give up and go home. (The trouble is - there are these bloody Human Rights! Lawyers whp insist this is Unlawful imprisonment !!) CONCLUSION - we have to be careful or it will all warp up in our faces Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Support /any/ struggle of the oppressed: a question whichI feel is scathing.
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Nestor you have summed it up in just five lines !! Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com -Original Message- From: marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu [mailto:marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Néstor Gorojovsky Sent: 03 December 2010 1:35 PM To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Support /any/ struggle of the oppressed: a question whichI feel is scathing. == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I am not speaking of _union_ activism against the bourgeoisie. I am speaking of _political_ options, that is different societal projects in struggle. Would you bet that /every/ oppressed group has /always/ been clear as to the aim of their struggles? If yes, then why political discussion at all. Let´s allow the omniscient masses do history in spontaneity. If not, then not every struggle by any oppressed group deserves support. 2010/12/3 Greg McDonald gregm...@gmail.com: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This has always been the official position of the IWW, in contradistinction to the AFL and other pro-business unions in the USA. I can't speak of unions in other countries. On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 12:57 PM, S. Artesian sartes...@earthlink.net wrote: No, we should support the workers by fighting against the extra-exploitation of the migrant workers, by demanding that ALL workers have access to the same benefits and social services; that no tiering of wages be allowed; that all immigrant workers be afforded immediate union membership, and that no decertification of unions be allowed,.. etc. etc. etc. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/nmgoro%40gmail.com -- Néstor Gorojovsky El texto principal de este correo puede no ser de mi autoría Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/e.c.apling%40btinternet.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] ASorry, Frank. I paid for them and I can see them if I want to.
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == WikiLeaks certainly embarrasses the powers that be - which is certainly all to the good. Surely it will awaken some to the disgustingly anti=human activities of these powers - but there must also be the negative effect that the result of these leaks is to just vastly increase the security network these powers set up against us. Who wins in the end all depends on us - and millions more, not only realising how we are being duped, mislead and exploited, but also being prepared to to put our lives on the line in opposing this system and its leaders until we REALLY get a change !! Just at the moment WikiLeaks is a great help to our argument and propaganda and should be warmly welcomed. In the long term it will only have a positive effect if our use of it brings many others into sufficient activity which starts to get rid of the bastards exposed by their own words unleashed to the public by WikiLeaks THIS is the main argument in question - everything else is a sidetrack Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com -Original Message- From: marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu [mailto:marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Shane Mage Sent: 01 December 2010 10:12 PM To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Subject: [Marxism] ASorry, Frank. I paid for them and I can see them if I want to. This idea that the publication of private conversations and communications is in the public interest So the official, publicly funded, communications of the most militarily powerful state apparatus in the world are private conversations and communications! Sorry, Frank. We paid for them and we have a moral right to see them if we want to. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/e.c.apling%40btinternet.c om Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A comment by Diana Johnstone on A Serbian film, Croats and Muslims, and the left
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == How right Diana is. I spent several years of my youth in Venezia Giulia, as a junior office in the British Army, so had it early inscribed in my brain how to distinguish a Croat Ustashi from a Slovene partisan (anti-fascist). During the years of the Balkan conflict I have been constantly appalled at how easily the British and American publics have been so easily swindled into accepting the NATO View of the disintegration of the democratic socialist republic of Yugoslavia, constituted following so many years of such bloody struggle against the Nazi-fascist invaders and their Ustashi allies. Did I think in 1945 that we had REALLY won the war against fascism? No - I knew very well that those who in Britain and the USA who, in 1939, had really wanted a war on the side of Hitler against the USSR, were still in command in the West - that they had only begun the Second Front (D-DAY) BECAUSE OTHERWISE THE WHOLE OF Western Europe would certainly be liberated from the Nazis by the Red Army (their REAL enemy). The assessment of all that has happened since then really depends on understanding this fundamental truth - the role-back of all that had been achieved by the Yugoslav partisans in the no-man's land between the areas of Europe liberated, and subsequently occupied by the Red Army, and the areas liberated and occupied by the Western Powers of USA and GB was the crucial determinant of USA/GB foreign policy from 1945 (or even before) until the present day. The Serbs were the leading elements in the Yugoslav partisans (in spite of the fact that their charismatic leader was the Croat Josep Broz Tito) - and consequently were those who must be castigated as the hated dictators of the period. As one who was young, and in the British army in those crucial years of 1944-48, it seems so simple to understand the REAL forces and interests involved in so much that occurred afterwards - and I constantly find it so difficult to understand why so many of those, who believe they are on the left - and even revolutionary - find it so difficult to understand which side they should be on. (Do they not even know that Croatia was a puppet republic under the Nazis ?) Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com -Original Message- From: marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu [mailto:marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of David Thorstad Sent: 01 December 2010 10:17 PM To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Subject: [Marxism] A comment by Diana Johnstone on A Serbian film, Croats and Muslims, and the left Here's a further comment by Diana Johnstone, posted with her permission, in response to the awful ahistoric note by a Bosnian friend posted earlier. David = It becomes clearer and clearer to me that the Anglo-American-Israeli imperialist axis was eager to sustain and rejuvenate the moral dualism that triumphed to their advantage from the conflict with Nazi Germany in World War II. They – and first of all, journalists eager to live in those exciting times – jumped at the propaganda version of the Yugoslav civil wars cooked up by the Ruder Finn public relations agency on behalf of the Croats and Bosnian Muslims. This served up Serbs as Nazis and Muslims as Jews. From then on, the scenario was written, and reporters simply had to jerk the tears. Almost the entire left, with nothing else exciting to do, fell for this Manichean rehash hook, line and sinker. And what has happened now, is that the Serbs=Nazis + Muslims=Jews equation has been so internalized that any attempt to hint at reality is automatically and vehemently rejected as negationism on a par with Holocaust denial. Many Muslims of course enjoy being promoted to the status of Jewish Holocaust victims, without realizing that all this is a morality play serving to perpetuate war against Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine. Diana Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/e.c.apling%40btinternet.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] The American Dream - A Dream Denied
==
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==
Last evening I recorded BBC2's showing of the subject title, (to be shown
again on BBC on Tuesday (or rather Wednesday !!) at 2.00 a.m. GMT, and have
reviewed it this morning:
and conclude it contains much that must be a revelation to many born since
WW2 in UK (or elsewhere) and an upset to their acceptance of the
establishment view of the US and its world policies (i.e its supposed basis
of support of human freedom and democracy).
Most of it was just a rehash of events inscribed in the memory of my long
life-time's experience and opposition to the US government and its racism
(the Negros = the separated units of the US Army and USAAF in UK and Italy),
the aboriginal tribes of north America [Red Indians], the Gays (=Homos),
and its world-wide interventions on behalf of every disgusting right-wing
dictatorship (Phillipines, Chile, etc. etc) it believed to be under threat
of communism; but new to me, despite my involvement in the fight against
the war in Vietnam - was concerning those involved in the Weatherman
campaign
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground_%28organization%29.
Presumably my hatred of all the US government has always represented was
what prevented me learning of this (perhaps naive, but surely justified)
direct-action organisation, derived from student activism.
It is ironic that the BBC has decided to show this programme here just when
student activism against the imposition of increased fees in higher
education (with its sub-texts of make the bankers pay, end the wars in
the Middle East, etc.) - when this reminder of the darker aspects of
American Imperialism is, for once, likely to find an audience ready to think
deeply and wonder - about both home and foreign affairs - the question of
whose side are we on !!. (At least the showing was during prime time -
though on the elitist channel of BBC2 - {what were the mass looking at on
ITV or satellite, I wonder ?? - this I have NOT researched !}
The programme is not available on BBC iPlayer - but is to be repeated late
on Tuesday evening (02.00 GMT Weds).
Paddy
http://apling.freeservers.com
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Re: [Marxism] What If? Lenin and Trotsky: When to hold, when to fold.
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == No I didn't - just read the page again Paddy -Original Message- From: marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu [mailto:marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Fred Feldman Sent: 19 September 2010 2:35 AM To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] What If? Lenin and Trotsky: When to hold, when to fold. Paddy Appling wrote: This is all true Trotsky's role was marginal and eventually destructive Apart from his positive leadership of the Red Army, which he greatly over-exaggerated when believing they could defeat the German Army, rather than as Lenin insisted to agree the terms of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, land which was subsequently recovered after WW2. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] What If? Lenin and Trotsky: When to hold, when to fold.
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Hallo all readers of Lou's newsgroup, Having been visiting relatives in western Canada and then the south of France for the last two months it is diffcult to know where to intervene in the current discussions, and the message I am replying to is simply chosen because (1) it is brief, and (2) it succinctly summarises my own feeling about Trotsky after nearly 60 years of involvement in the struggle against fascism and for socialism, although (3) what I really want to do is to congratulate waistline2 on intiating a discussion which has forced me to spend time reading more thoroughly than usual the many contributions to this list, which as a result of his lengthy contributions have allowed very meaningful discussion of real problems of the workers movement and its history, without causing any flaming - fear of which was so much the basis of Lou's consistent objection to discussion simply related to Stalin v. Trotsky. Waistline2 has found a way to introduce this NECESSARY discussion in a manner which has lead to deep discussion of important issues of Marxist theory and practice - with not a hint of flaming response. Having been born in 1925 - growing up in the period of fascist preparation for imperialist war; the Italian invasion of Abyssinia, the Spanish civil war, and WW2 - in which I was a late participant in practice, but emotionally involved from the start in involvemt with Marxism and the workers' movement, I entered my teens imbibing the anti-fascist regard for the Soviet Union of the time. I do not remember being so much concerned with the 1939 Non-Aggression Pact between the USSR and Nazi Germany as I was with (a) the defeat of the Spanish Republic and (b) the plans of the British Government to send troops to help Finland in their dispute with the USSR instead of any action against the Nazis - I felt our government had got themselves into a war against a Germany they did want to fight and would prefer as an ally !! I can remember on my last day of school - the day the Nazis attacked the USSR = shouting this will be the end of Hitler [Little did I realise it would take another four years and the death of millions of (mainly) Russians] (as it was, shades of Napoleon's first campaign failure !!) - and that (really arch-reactionary) Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, much to dismay of so-many in our ruling class immediately called for every support for the USSR in their struggle against the Nazi invaders. Then, when in early 1942 I was working in a laboratory in the east end of London, I saw processions of tanks going to London docks for transport by British merchant ships to Murmansk to help the Soviets - all bearing the whitewashed slogan Tanks for Joe. It was not just this juvenile would-be revolutionary who admired Joe Stalin as the true anti-fascist leader !! Of course, despite the absolutely fantastic role of the USSR under the leadership of Stalin during the war things later began to go wrong, despite, it seems to me every attempt on their side to maintain the Anti-fascist alliance (and UK had signed a 20-year Treaty of Alliance with the USSR !!) things soon began to go wrong after the war. At the time of the Korean war in 1950 I received (as I had been a junior officer in the Royal Tank Regiment until the end of 1948) an invitation from the War Office to renew my commission - which simply went into the waste-paper basket So, despite ny feeling in the post-war period that I was very glad to live in England rather than Russia, I continued to feel they were the vanguard of the anti-fascist and anti-colonial movement - and indeed the very existence of the USSR made it possible for so many peoples in Africa and Asia to gain their independence from colonialism (and I had never heard about Trotskyism - what did his supporters do to help the colonial peoples !!) When in 1956 Kruschev made his secret speech I was fully involved in leadership of a rent strike in support of council housing and Russian questions were far from my thoughts - and I was grateful for the enthusiastic organisational support of the CPGB, which I had joined in 1941. I remember being somewhat bemused by discussions on USSR questions at the 1956 Congress at which I was a delegate [especially by the attitude of E P Thompson, who I had met in the army] - and even after the demise of the USSR and all its problems and mistakes I feel we should all be proud of its achievements: Remember: the first Communist government - the Parish Commune, only lasted for some 75 days - while the second Communist Government, resultine from the October Revolution, lasted for some 75 YEARS. Remember the achievement - and the problems the Bolsheviks faced.
Re: [Marxism] Nuclear Energy Causes Global Warming
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == -Original Message- From: marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu [mailto:marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Louis Proyect Sent: 24 July 2010 7:54 PM To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Nuclear Energy Causes Global Warming DW wrote: My position on the NRC, and especially the ASME (not mentioned in the Davis-Besse piece Louis posted) manufacturing and testing standards (the links were provided in my essay) still stands. I'm not an uncritical defender of NRC...the fact is that since TMI, Davis-Besse included, there hasn't been a serious accident. Not a one with nuclear energy. T which Lou wrote I'm still curious. Is this love affair with nuclear power something you devleoped on your own or is this a Lambertist orientation mirroring that of Frank Furedi's RCP? [snip] Slowly people like me are making gains winning those on the Left to this viewpoint. Except on Marxmail, I would say. [to which Paddy Apling responds] I can't help saying, just before I leave for a holiday in Albertaand BC: that is because, like on global warming, most of Marxmail still have closed minds on these topics. Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/e.c.apling%40btinternet.c om Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Nuclear Energy Causes Global Warming
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Hallo Marxmai, An addendum to my comment to Lou: It would be a good idea for Marxmail listers to read this week's Newsletter from the (British) Scientific Alliance, to which I subscribe, and which this week deals with current perceptions and, particularly, on the obviously coming Energy Crisis, and current (non) plans for dealing with it. The link to ask for an e-mail copy pf their newsletter is i...@scientific-alliance.org. Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com -Original Message- From: marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu [mailto:marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of DW Sent: 24 July 2010 7:32 PM To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Nuclear Energy Causes Global Warming Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Anybody's Son Will Do
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Many thanks Ray, for that URL. I have watched the film this morning - and cannot help wondering what its impact is on those who have never served in their country's army. For me, having joined the British army only in August 1944, aged 19 -it felt like the truth personified. The first drill sergeant (not actually the first, because I spent six weeks in primary training, of which I have few memories, before joining the Armoured Corps for my main training as a driver/(wireless) operator impressed on one's memory, which left me with the pride in the Royal Tank Regiment) - how true. (This was up in Co. Durham - so different from my home territory of East Anglia - with its stone houses, and a dialect Geordie which was mainly incomprehensible to me when arrived). My first (in Armoured Corps training) was named Sergeant Steel - what an appropriate name - and certainly his face is truly impressed on my memory, as someone the whole troop came to partly regard as a lunatic demon, but who yet gained a deep-seated respect. Then this was followed by officer training at Sandhurst, which was even more vigorous as well as more academic with theory of strategy and tactics as well as the combat training which left me at my heaviest ever with muscles I had never known I had !! The main difference between my experience and that of today's recruits was that we were training to liberate the world from fascism, not to simply be used as tools of our and other governments' attempts to rule the world ... a difference which puts a whole new complexion on the system and basis of army training. By the time I was commissioned as a junior officer VE-day had come, to be followed by VJ-day before the planned embarkation of my unit for the Far East, and I spent two very eventual (and, in retrospect) enjoyable and educative years in occupation duties in Italy and Egypt - in which, as a very young man, I was entrusted with responsibilities which were vast in comparison with anything I experienced in the remainder of my professional life. It still remains almost impossible for me to enter into any deep conversation, whether concerned with politics or with family and local affairs, without harking back to parallels, and sometimes solutions, which are coloured by my 4 years in the army. Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com -Original Message- From: marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu [mailto:marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of jay rothermel Sent: 22 April 2010 2:13 AM To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Subject: [Marxism] Anybody's Son Will Do == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.countercurrents.org/willers200410.htm In 1983, the National Film Board of Canada produced a 57-minute film, Anybody's Son Will Do. Arguably the best anti-war film ever made, and tailored for public television, it scared the hell out of the U.S. military machine, which has done its best to disappear it. For years it has been nearly impossible to find a copy, but some kind soul has posted it on YouTube where it can be seen in six segments. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DShDaJXK5q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DShDaJXK5qo Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/e.c.apling%40btinternet.c om Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Anybody's Son Will Do
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == You should remember how often young officers (and those grew up as petot=bourgeois, like Lenin) have played substantial roles in successful revolutionary outbreaks - just think of Abdul Nassar in Egypt, the overthrow of Salazar in Portugal, just to name a couple. I feel sure that thepolitical discussions in the British Army, conducted by troop officers on the basis of material produced by the Army Bureau of Current Affairs for weekly discussions, played a not-insubstantial role in the electoral defeat pf WinstonChurchill and his Tory minions in Britain in 1945 (though I was expected to lead my troop in political discussions - I was too young to vote in 1945). Don't be so blatantly short-sighted.. Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com -Original Message- From: marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu [mailto:marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of S. Artesian Sent: 22 April 2010 1:58 PM To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Anybody's Son Will Do == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Dear Lord, save us from our officers and we'll do the rest. - Original Message - From: Paddy Apling e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/e.c.apling%40btinternet.c om Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Stalin Archive now on the Revolutionary Democracy website
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == But his report to the 18th Congress of the CPSU(b) in March 1939 is well worth reading - and explains a great deal about the events that were to follow in 1939-1948 and after. Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com -Original Message- From: marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu [mailto:marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Cod Sent: 20 April 2010 2:04 AM To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Stalin Archive now on the Revolutionary Democracy website == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == So how about the bullshit he pulled with the pact with Hitler in 1939? Who's aiding the Nazis there? Good 'Ol Uncle Joe. On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Grover Furr-FM furrg...@fastmail.fmwrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Dear fellow listmembers: The anticommunist and/or Trotskyist remarks on Stalin are the delusion. The Trotskyist-Khrushchev-Cold War version of Stalin and of Soviet history during Stalin's time is a complete fabrication. I understand that Louis Proyect does not wish to permit discussion of these matters on this list. He's the listowner and can allow, and disallow, whatever he wants. But if ignorant, anticommunist / Trotskyist falsehoods are permitted on the list, I do wonder why we cannot point out how false they are. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/e.c.apling%40btinternet.c om Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Science and the public
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Found on the web, and worth a read: (same applies in Britain - but, not, I thinl, in the rest of Europe) Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com Fear of Science Will Kill Us - Michael Specter, CNN, April 13, 2010. Watch video at http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/04/13/specter.denying.science/ American denialism threatens many areas of scientific progress, including the widespread fear of vaccines and the useless trust placed in the vast majority of dietary supplements quickly come to mind. It doesn't seem to matter how often vaccines are proved safe or supplements are shown to offer nothing of value. When people don't like facts, they ignore them. Nowhere is that unwillingness to accept the truth more evident than in the mindlessly destructive war that has been raging between the proponents of organic food and those who believe that genetically engineered products must play a role in feeding the growing population of the Earth. This is a divide that shouldn't exist. All the food we eat -- every grain of rice and kernel of corn -- has been genetically modified. None of it was here before mankind learned to cultivate crops. The question isn't whether our food has been modified, but how. I wrote Denialism because it has become increasingly clear that this struggle threatens progress for us all. Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment. It isn't hard to find evidence: the ruinous attempts to wish away the human impact on climate change, for example. The signature denialists of our time, of course, are those who refuse to acknowledge the indisputable facts of evolution. Nowhere has the screaming been louder, however, than in the fight over how we grow our food. If you are brave enough to set a Google Alert for the phrases genetically modified food and organic food, you will quickly see what I mean. The anxiety is certainly understandable. When it comes to food -- the way we produce it and particularly the way we consume it -- we have a lot to worry about. One third of American children are overweight or obese; for adults, the numbers are higher. Our addiction to mindless consumption has made millions sick and costs this country billions of dollars. The financial toll comes in terms of time lost at work and money spent treating and supporting people with diabetes, heart disease and many cancers, who, had they followed a better diet, would never have fallen ill. Nonetheless, better eating habits have nothing specific to do with organic food, which provides no nutritional advantage over more conventionally raised products. Opponents of genetically modified food constantly argue that it is unsafe. There has, however, never been a single documented case of a human killed by eating genetically modified food. If every American swallowed two aspirin right now, hundreds of us would die today. Does that mean we ought to ban aspirin? Of course not. It simply means that there are risks and benefits associated with everything we do and with every decision we make. When people say they prefer organic food, what they often seem to mean is they don't want their food tainted with pesticides and their meat shot full of hormones or antibiotics. Many object to the way a few companies -- Monsanto is the most famous of them -- control so many of the seeds we grow. Those are all legitimate complaints, but none of them have anything to do with science or the way we move genes around in plants to make them grow taller or withstand drought or too much sun. They are issues of politics and law. When we confuse them with issues of science, we threaten the lives of the world's poorest people. We are doing that now. By 2050, we are going to have 9 billion people to feed, a huge increase over today's 6.8 billion. It's not a figure about which there is much dispute. To feed that many will require nearly 50 percent more food than we produce now. It's not enough to simply say we waste food and consume too many calories, so that if we distributed it more intelligently everyone could eat just fine. Not in sub-Saharan Africa, where drought is nearly permanent. Many of those people subsist on cassava, the basic potato-like staple in the region. It lacks most protein, nutrients and vitamins. You cannot survive for long without them, so a team of international scientists funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, is engineering vitamins and micronutrients into cassava. They are engineering success into a failed crop. It will save and prolong many lives; that is farming and genetic modification at their best. Who could be opposed to that? --- Michael Specter is a staff writer at The New Yorker and the author of Denialism: How Irrational
Re: [Marxism] Climategate Researchers Largely Cleared
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == And we are far from knowing what causes changes in climate. In both climate and cancer, predictions are fraught with our relative ignorance. Most predictions prove false - and we only have to wait and see Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com -Original Message- From: marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu [mailto:marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Les Schaffer Sent: 15 April 2010 9:13 PM To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Climategate Researchers Largely Cleared == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 4/10/10 10:52 AM, Shawn Redden wrote: Lots of things cause cancer, Louis. In fact, it's the greatest public health crisis we face. And ironically, this one EASILY shown to be created by those who poison the biosphere. i have a colleague who is an epidemiologist and i have been working with him (writing software) on a large and long running study of a specific cancer, one of MANY epidemiology studies he has done. he tells me its virtually impossible to prove something causes a specific cancer. what he does say is that cigarette manufacturers and chemical plant operators etc can NOT prove XXX does NOT cause cancer. here are some recent comments he made: Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Chomsky Warns of Risk of Fascism in America
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == ABSOLUTELY Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com -Original Message- From: marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu [mailto:marxism-bounces+e.c.apling=btinternet@lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Jason Matthes Sent: 15 April 2010 9:58 PM To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Chomsky Warns of Risk of Fascism in America There is ABSOLUTELY no chance of fascists coming to power in Britain by electoral means in the immediate future I believe it's the same in America. I think American fascism will come about by the government continually increasing their power in the name of defending freedom. Quite an interesting concept, defending freedom by taking it away. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Ife 12th=15th century
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The British Museum has on at the moment what looks to be a glorious exhibition of Ife (Nigeria) art of the 12th-15th centuries (i.e. before the time of Henry VIII of England or the discovery of America by Columbus) The four videos linked to Kingdom of Ife on the museum web-site at http://www.britishmuseum.org/ are a must-view for anyone interested in black culture, as they give an excellent view of these fabulously technical sculptures from such an early period. Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] New Left Revuew
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I have been searching the web today for confirmation that Perry Anderson has resigned from the editorial board of NLR - no mention on their web-site, and his name just leads to a long list to his contributions - all of which, no doubt, considering my long=time subs to NOR I have read in the past. If true I would beg him to reconsider, because his article of China in the current edition, I regard as the best in the issue, while the article said to be the reason for his resignation is not worth the paper it is written on. As a veteran Marxist I regard the theory of anthropometric (and catastrophic !! climate change) as a new war on terrorism - but in this case a war aimed at the working classes of the imperialist world, suggesting we are all to blame for the impending end of the planet. I have tried to argue over a number of years against this theory of anthropometric climate change, and the so-called threat of carbon-dioxide emissions over quite a number of years on this site, only to be met with ad-hominem opprobrium - and no real discussion of the science involved, The apparent split in the NLR editorial board should bring this to forefront of serious Marxist discussion - as it is crucial to a proper understanding of class struggle, where environmental issues are an important, but subsidiary, issue. No one, surely disputes that climate change is real - so why the opprobrium with the talk of deniers (or heretics, with its suggestion of medieval religious persecutions). Historical and archeological sources are sufficient to indicate that the earth has gone through many climate periods, even during the relatively short time that humans have developed. The discovery of the remains of a mammoth in the cliffs at West Runton, Norfolk, UK, are sufficient to show that some past eras were far warmer than today; and well-authenticated stories and pictures of hog roasts and markets on the frozen Thames in Tudor and Georgian Times are enough to show climate has often been much colder than today. Climate science is a new phenomenon, a closed connection, who seem to take little notice of basic physics, chemistry or biology, and whose basic project seems to be to prove their thesis that current climate changes are due to human (and specifically industrial - on which our whole current lifestyle is based) intervention. Their basic hypothesis is based on what they claim is a correlation (over the short period of not more than 100 years of the millennia humans have existed on this planet - and the very much longer time that climate had varied) with carbon-dioxide concentration in the atmosphere. Disregarding the basic criterion of statistics that correlation does not indicate a cause - and disregarding the obvious fact that human intervention in CO2 release before the late 20th century was minimal - we are led to believe that current (1940-2000) warming is due to industrial (coal and oil-burning emissions). I have to point out that the greatest sink of CO2 are the oceans (apart from the land deposits in previous sea-beds as limestone !!) - and that solubility of CO2 in water DECREASES with rising temperature - so that rising CO2 cam equally be explained by rising temperatures as rising temperatures can be explained by rising CO2. (Then we have ecologists suggesting that rising CO2 is threatening acidification of the oceans, disregarding the fact that H2CO3 is about the weakest acid known to chemists). I can only wonder, how such idiocies have not only been taken up by much of the left, parroting the latest idiocies of their imperialist masters, as it has apparently been sucked up by so many scientists, who have not been able to transcend their natural reluctance to criticise scientists in fields outside their own specialism (apart from the fact that currrently the easiest way to secure cash for a research grant is to link the project with such words as and its effect on global warming). Consider CO2: it is a very minor consitituent of the atmosphere - around 350 ppm (0.035%) - its IR spectrum (absorbance) is limited almost entirely to 2 specific wavelengths, as distinct from water vapour whose absorbance covers a large proportion of the IR spectrum and a much higher proportion of the atmosphere - both together making CO2 surely a smaller contributor to the greenhouse effect. Secondly, without CO2 there would be no life at all. All animal (and human if you don't like us being talked of as animals) life depends on the ability of green plants to combine CO2, water, and the energy received from the sun into carbohydrates (sugars and starch), and all plus nitrogen into proteins, which we use as food to supply our needs for energy and
Re: [Marxism] re : Glaciergate
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == - Original Message - From: Dan d.koech...@wanadoo.fr To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 1:34 PM there are long term trends, fads, in science. In my humble opinion, they tell us more about prevailing sociological attitudes, about current weltanschaung (worldview), the deep-seated anxieites of an epoch than the workings of our universe. As far as I am concerned Dan's contribution comes like a new broom - and I cannot allow his contribution to pass without serious discussion. The general politicisation of science and the apparent determination of so many on the left to raise questions of political affiliation in respect of the holder of particular scientific viewpoints is really worrying to me, as is the - it is probably worth saying right out - obnoxious way in which previous contributions of mine on the global warming issue have been treated; suggesting to me that far too many on the left imagine that all things under the sun can only be explained in relation to the class struggle. Well, as a veteran campaigner for socialism, certainly dating back to 1942, with actions against Mussolini's attack on Abyssinia, when was it, 1935?, against the Daily Mail's support of Franco in 1936-9. a veteran member of this list (how many years is it Lou? - this list had not been going too many years before I joined), and trained as a chemist concerned with the purity of food, water and air, with over 6- years both political and professional involvement, I suggest that my ideas - even when on scientific questions agree with those who may (or may not) support the Tort party in Britain, the Republican party in the USA, might possible be worth listening to. And I tell you comrades, that the story of a global crisis of global warming is so much poppycock. That CO2, though it is undoubtedly a (minor) greenhouse gas - is really the stuff of life - the major chemical foundation of life itself - the major way in which the sun's energy is concerted by plants into the staff of life - food.The more CO2 in the atmosphere (and it is only 400-400 Parts per MILLION for goodness sake) the quicker plants will grow (and we might as well say also, the higher the temperature beyond the usual 7-10 C common in UK and Northern USA and Canada). If global warming is on the agenda, let's have MORE of it in the Northern Hemisphere. But beware climate has ALWAYS varied since the Earth began - the WORST periods have been ice ages, when most of UK and Canada and much of USA was under mile thick ice-sheets and even he Little Ice Age of the 1600-1800s when the Thames regularly frozen in winter and Europe has the year without a summer in 1816 with famine resulting. It is time for some deep thinking; proper discussion of history and science and rejection of the forecasts the doomsayers (and the forecasts of computer programs).This whole question needs serious discussion - not ad hominem attacks - not even the type of hot-headed that I have here composed in my frustration. Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Politicisation of Culture
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Following my message on subject re} Glaciergate: I have just been listening to a recording made from BBC Radio3 yesterday -Kenneth Clarke's Jazz Greats:4 - Sonny Rollins = which I could not fault. Now I don't know if, across the pond, you can listen to BBC iPlayer, which makes the last week or so radio and TV programmes available for download for a period - but, if you can, you should listen to this jazz apprecition from a reired Tory cabinet minister - an really fault his jazz appreciation. Now, born in 1925, I grew up (in opposition to my paremts) is appeciating the relationship between music and freedom - in other words - why it was that the BBC did not allow jazz to be on the radio - because that was nigger music that early associated for me appreciation of jazz with progressive politics And where did I go for my first jazz concerts? To the Conway Hall in London's Bloomsbury (the heart of the area frequented by those who were opposed to the establishment. whatever their attitude to class struggle might be (many of the most exteme bohemians still adhered to the Tory viewpoint on poltiical matters). Just look on WIKI to see WHY it was named the Conway Hall ; and some of my best memories of musical occasions are associated with jam sessions organised at Conway Hall by the Young Commnist League, with participation of negro jazz musicians over here in the American Army (possibly, or even probably] AWOL at the time, because of the atrocious racialism practiced by the US Army in the 1940s (an for long after). Even, years later, just after the end of the war, when I was an officer in the 4th Royal Tank Regiment in Italy, and used to give weekly record recitals on jazz appreciation - based on records I borrowed from the US 'ibrary at near Duino Castle. near Trieste. I have such vivid memories of the looks I received from the service librarians about this WHITE British officer searching among the Race Records for the jazz records I needed for next week's recital. This whole experience still partially covers my appreciation of US matters: I am well aware of the disgusting role of 17-19th century involvement of Britain in the slave trade and the economic and political enslavement of those living in the empire over which the sun never sets, but I still join with my fellow Norfolkman Tom Paine in concern with Commonsense, The Rights of Man and the Age of Reason. We really do need to go back to read Tom Paine, who in the 18th century was aleady setting a path for human society we have still to follow. Just to prick so many on this list - I would say that on the verge of the 19th century - his simple ideas were already so far ahead of such poor prophets as Trotsky that create such useless controversy on the so-called left. Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Global Warming again
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Events of the last few weeks show clealy that the time has come to properly consider and discuss the science of climate - which is a science in its infancy which is almost entirely based on the output of computer models, which have assumed that correlations surely indicate causation (which they never can without experimental verification). A brief but telling video account, suitable for understanding by the non-scientist, is available on U-Tube, by John Coleman of the US Weather Channel, which requires to be properly considered without the knee-jerk response that this is an ideological response of the right-wing of politics. On the basis of a life-time career in food and environmental science I recommend this as a very good summary of the present extent of real knowledge of what controls climate change.. http://www.youtube.com/v/Gwmz79hVyosrel=0color1=0xb1b1b1color2=0xcfcfcfhl=en_USfeature=player_embeddedfs=1; Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Global Warming again
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Not zero, but vastly over-rated and not justifying the hyperbole, just consider the facts; not least its contribution to plant growth - see web-sites, of various scientists including mine at apling.freeservers.com/science.htm awaiting updated links. Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com - Original Message - From: Les Schaffer schaf...@optonline.net To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Global Warming again == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Paddy Apling wrote: Events of the last few weeks show clealy that the time has come to properly consider and discuss the science of climate where you been Paddy, that's been going on for decades. you just don't like the results to date. any other scientist knows its not just models, tho they are important. there is proxy data, there is measurements. you are surprisingly inept at making sound scientific assessment about climate science, yet you talk as if you know what you are saying. in this regard, you ARE in the camp of climate change denialists. all heat, no light. but you are following the good rule of propaganda, just say NO!. so, Paddy, you think the sensitivity of the climate to CO2 changes is EXACTLY zero, is that your position? Les Nature Geoscience Published online: 6 December 2009 Earth system sensitivity inferred from Pliocene modelling and data Daniel J. Lunt, Alan M. Haywood, Gavin A. Schmidt, Ulrich Salzmann, Paul J. Valdes Harry J. Dowsett Abstract Quantifying the equilibrium response of global temperatures to an increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations is one of the cornerstones of climate research. Components of the Earth's climate system that vary over long timescales, such as ice sheets and vegetation, could have an important effect on this temperature sensitivity, but have often been neglected. Here we use a coupled atmosphere–ocean general circulation model to simulate the climate of the mid-Pliocene warm period (about three million years ago), and analyse the forcings and feedbacks that contributed to the relatively warm temperatures. Furthermore, we compare our simulation with proxy records of mid-Pliocene sea surface temperature. Taking these lines of evidence together, we estimate that the response of the Earth system to elevated atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations is 30–50% greater than the response based on those fast-adjusting components of the climate system that are used traditionally to estimate climate sensitivity. We conclude that targets for the long-term stabilization of atmospheric greenhouse-gas concentrations aimed at preventing a dangerous human interference with the climate system should take into account this higher sensitivity of the Earth system. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/e.c.apling%40btinternet.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Internationale in Irish
That links to some excellemt stuff, leading to other excellent Gaelic renderings of óró s é do bheatha 'bhaile - of which I would love to have a translation of the words into English, knowing no Gaelic, but surely for the Irish version of the original anthem the link should really be to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf2GVBjvlGA or else from the unveiling of the Spanish Civil War memorial unveiling, Saturday 13 October 2007, Writers' Square, Béal Feirste at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRPmSKaARt8NR=1 Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com - Original Message - From: sobuadha...@hushmail.com To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 4:19 AM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Internationale in Irish Matt, Thanks for posting that version of the Internationale. But then again, everything sounds better in Gaeilge and here's proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxRj-ejoJaMfeature=related YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/e.c.apling%40btinternet.com YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query on British historiography
Lou is showing rather a isolationist view of WWII here, without any conception of the European view of WWII - which although it started in 1939 as a simple war between Germany and Britain and France brought about as what one might well say was a richly deserved result of the appeasement, even encouragement, of fascism from 1933 through the Nazi occupation of Austria and Czechoslovakia, etc. by the British and French ruling classes (large sections of which were strong supporters of Franco, and a not inconsiderable numbers supporters of Hitler)- well demonstrated with the readiness with which the French ruling class formed a puppet government under the Nazis, the war became - well before the entry of USA into WWII as a result of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour - became, certainly from 1941, if not before, a war of liberation, and inherently an anti-fascist struggle. No wonder it was supported by the whole of the working classes of Europe. Churchill, of course, was well-known as an anti-semite, and a vicious opponent of the working class and its organisations, and virulently anti-communist and anti-soviet. BUT he became Prime Minister in what amounted to a coup in 1940 by the section of the ruling class which were not supporters of fascism and IMMEDIATELY after the Nazi attack on the Soviet Union his patriotism overcame his anti-communist virulence to the extent that the the following day announced his country and the Soviet Union as allies. From then on there could be no doubt that WWII was a just war, a war of liberation against fascism - and anyone who now seeks to dispute that is effectively a holocaust denier. Bringing the Bengal famine into the argument is a red herring. British communists - and indeed the working class movement in Britain generally, were active throughout the war - and before - in promoting the anti-colonial struggle; but all direct contact with Marxists in India were effectively impossible during the war - though the representative of the Indian Congress, Krishna Menon, was speaker at many many public meetings organised during the war - and many on the left were advocating the handing over of power before the end of the war. The assessment of Churchill by the British working class as a war leader who, in general deserved support for the time, but was inherently an enemy of the working class was clearly shown in the general election, which followed shortly after the Nazi surrender - when Churchill and his party were rejected in a landslide (an election in which I, as a troop officer in 2nd Armoured Brigade, but still under 21, did not have a vote - but you can bet your bottom dollar that most of those in the Brigade old enough to have a vote rejected Churchill, as did the majority of the working class back home. What happened in the ensuing years, with the Labour government coming more and more under the thumbs of Washington, until it too was rejected by the electorate, is another story Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com - Original Message - From: Louis Proyect l...@panix.com To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Query on British historiography Paul Flewers wrote: The Second World War was the last time that Britain played anything like a major role on a world scale, and I guess that the endless commemorating of it here is at least in part an unconscious recognition of this. After more furniture busting than has been seen since the barroom fight in Shane, the comments on Stalin Nostalgia and Churchill Nostalgia have died down on my blog. I don't want to stir things up there again, but do want to offer another thought about it here where belief in a Good War is less entrenched presumably. It seems that both sides in the debate agree that Churchill was fighting an imperialist war but Newman and company argue that this was secondary to the need to defeat Hitler. Every effort had to be bent toward mobilizing the working class for a militant war against Hitler, even if it was under the stewardship of a dog like Churchill. That poses the question of the responsibilities of Marxists. How in the world can a pro-war revolutionary current possibly not agitate around all the terrible things that the British ruling class was up to? For example, I have been harping on Bengal. If Indian Communists told their British comrades what was going on, it would be *criminal* not to mount demonstrations against the policies that led to a famine that would kill 3 million Indians. Remaining silent around such issues would of course be dictated by the need to get everybody on a war footing and follow the military/political machine but it would end up discrediting the revolutionary pro-war left. Which of course is what happened in the USA. If a parallel process took place in Britain, that would be an interesting topic to research but I have a
[Marxism] Social history - Who Do You Think You Are?
I have received the following link from a local and family history mailing list http://www.sbs.com.au/shows/whodoyouthinkyouare/feature-episode/page/i/1/show/whodoyouthinkyouare the episode about Olympic gold-medallist Christine Freeman, which is well worth watching. Christine's ancestors include indigenous Australians and 19th-century immigrants from China and from apprenticeship, under semi-slavery conditions, in rural England, the injustices suffered by all of them are uncovered in the investigation of her fanily tree. The programme is a moving and excellent hour of social history, seldom laid so clearly bare, of the injustices sufferered by the poort and the indigenous peoples of the areas of the world of !Ango-Saxon settlement. (Whether the link works in USA, only list members can tell me - but it works fine in UK). Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Social history - Who Do You Think You Are?
Thanks for the correction. Trust me to get the name wrong !! Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com - Original Message - From: John johnedmund...@paradise.net.nz To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Social history - Who Do You Think You Are? That would be Catherine Freeman, who was known at the time of her Olympic success as Cathy Freeman. Cheers, John On Sun, 2009-08-16 at 11:50 +0100, Paddy Apling wrote: I have received the following link from a local and family history mailing list http://www.sbs.com.au/shows/whodoyouthinkyouare/feature-episode/page/i/1/show/whodoyouthinkyouare the episode about Olympic gold-medallist Christine Freeman, which is well worth watching. Christine's ancestors include indigenous Australians and 19th-century immigrants from China and from apprenticeship, under semi-slavery conditions, in rural England, the injustices suffered by all of them are uncovered in the investigation of her fanily tree. The programme is a moving and excellent hour of social history, seldom laid so clearly bare, of the injustices sufferered by the poort and the indigenous peoples of the areas of the world of !Ango-Saxon settlement. (Whether the link works in USA, only list members can tell me - but it works fine in UK). Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/johnedmundson%40paradise.net.nz YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/e.c.apling%40btinternet.com YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Afghanistan: The Lost War
The New Statesman for Monday 17th August is a special issue condemning Afghanistan: The Lost War. See http://www.newstatesman.com/asia/2009/08/women-rights-afghanistan and further links. Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
