Re: MD: What up with MD
Charles Redell wrote: las wrote: "like the digital cameras, only for music" I think we have the tag line for our commercial! To be like adigital camera, the need a way to record instantly (built in mike AND a microphone jack.) and a way to preview the picture. I have sold more than one Minidisc recorder by pulling it out at a concert (open taping was allowed) recording the show with my trusty home brew mike http://www.tir.com/~liteways/Mandolin.html#Microphone playing it back at the intermission for people to hear. ( and subsiquently forgetting to press END SEARCH after playback and losing the whole first part of the concert. Damn Sony anyway, :( but I sure like their time stamp and auto level control options) :) -- Jim Coon Not just another pretty mandolin picker. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet? My first web page http://www.tir.com/~liteways - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
"Exactly my original point. I am not an audiophile but I do recognize a good and useful media when I see it. I would not hear the difference on $40 headphones, and probably not on $150 headphones either (unless it was pointed out to me)... What I care about, and what makes MD so attractive to me is its convience. Sony et al must know that people tape CDs for each other all the time. And they can't be so stupid as to think that they wiil kill off services/programs like Napster Stuff like that will always be going on on the Net... why don't they make it easy and available for the most people to do it in the best format? They would make more money than Microsoft (and probably get sued by the governement too)! Charlie" I think that there is a basic difference between the average American and average Japanese person when it comes to high tech. The average American still has a VCR in their living room that is blinking 12:00...12:00...12:00...They aren't interested in all of the editing features of MD. As some one stated before, Sony should come out with a very basic unit. No editing features or they should be hidden under a flap labeled "for advanced users only". They need the equivalent of the simple cassette deck for many Americans. But Sony is a Japanese company. They my have their name on our records and movies now, but I think that they stay totally away from the creative end. If Sony had it's own people making movies and records for the US market, they'd be out of business by now. But when it comes to MD, they never designed MD recorders for the Japanese market and separate recorders for the US market. They need a recorder that a person shopping in K-Mart or Wal-Mart would see and want to buy. This is not to put down Wal-Mart. They are very well stocked in general (the entire store) and usually have very good prices). But the average shopper going in there isn't looking for a Sony MDS-JA50ES. I'm not sure that, even if I could afford one, I'd buy one. Cost aside, it depends how much of a hobbist/prosumer you are. Maybe 30 years ago I'd have liked one. I was really into all kinds of electronics and had the time and patience for that. But the average American does not. This is not to say that they don't appreciate quality, or the CD and the DVD would have never become popular. But if you want to you can ignore all of the bell and whistles on a DVD player and just hit the play button. Americans are not blind. Even on an old TV you are going to see and hear a big improvement over VHS. The state that I live in (PA) is so hi tech backwards that the state has instituted a 2 week period of sales tax free computers!! That is something I have never heard of before. It seems that the American average for computer owners is 42% and PA is only 39%. Even 42% is really nothing when you think about it. I saw a couple (at Wal-Mart-where else) buying a "Web TV" today. My first thought was "Why?" For what they will end up paying for the complete system, they could have a much more useful computer. But these people are frightened of the computer. So how can you expect someone to understand the Mini Disc?? Just give them a Rio with a fixed memory. They don't want to have to worry about inserting the right card. So it sounds like sh!t. (It still sounds a hell of a lot better then those tiny tinny transistor radios we used to carry around with the 2' speaker). So what. It's music. Its cheap and it's simple. Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
So how can you expect someone to understand the Mini Disc?? Just give them a Rio with a fixed memory. They don't want to have to worry about inserting the right card. So it sounds like sh!t. (It still sounds a hell of a lot better then those tiny tinny transistor radios we used to carry around with the 2' speaker). So what. It's music. Its cheap and it's simple. Larry We can easily expect someone to understand the MD if it had been marketed to them correctly (which is a sad statement in and of itself)... It's a Cassette recorder with better sound and more funtionality. There's not much more to understand here than your basic walkman. OK. I concede the point that people would be a lot more receptive to MD if it had a good sized catalog of pre-recorded music, but Cassettes are not really made all that much anymore. And, where I live (Seattle, an admittedly tech centric city) finding anyone besides Tower Records who sells pre-recorded Cassesttes is not an easy task... But people still buy casette walkmen and cassette decks and blank cassettes. Why is what I want to know? Rio's don't need another card, but you can't build up a collection of music you get your half hour or your hour downloaded... and then you want the new Brittney Spears Import and you have to download over your Ricky Martin retrospective If Sony et al would tell them, people would realize that with MD they could live La Vida Loca and Do It Again over and over... (Sorry, lame jokes but I'm tired and have to be at work at 530am... I shouldn't even be up right now). MDs COULD BE the new cassette They are not a technical thing at all, unless you use them that way... Someone down at Sony HQ has something bigger planned because they can't possibly think that RIOs and sticks are going to make it as useless as they are. okok, I'm rambling. sleep. charlie - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
At 8/7/00 2:11 AM, las increased the world's knowledge by typing: As some one stated before, Sony should come out with a very basic unit. No editing features or they should be hidden under a flap labeled "for advanced users only". They need the equivalent of the simple cassette deck for many Americans. But Sony is a Japanese company. They my have their name on our records and movies now, but I think that they stay totally away from the creative end. If Sony had it's own people making movies and records for the US market, they'd be out of business by now. I disagree, sort of. I understand your suggestion for simplicity, but I don't think that's the issue. MD's are already dead simple to record with like a tape. Just stick the disc in and hit record. (Unless you're using a Sony portable and have to contend with that STUPID End Search button.) If you want to do editing on a tape, you simply wind to the spot that you want to record over and start taping again. If you want do simple editing on a MD you can't use the same approach because MD is a random access medium instead of a linear medium like tape is. But I don't think the MD approach is really any harder. In fact, it's EASIER to do more advanced editing if that's what you want to do. No, I think the issues are different. They would be cost, understanding MD's convenience, understanding MD's reliability, understanding MD's quality, availability, and compatibility with new technologies. As far as cost goes, all you have to do is compare the price of a minidisc recorder and a bunch of blanks to the price of a tape recorder and a bunch of blank tapes. There is a SIGNIFICANT gap between the low end of the MD market and the low end of the tape market. There is also a gap between prices at the high end, but it's not as significant. IMHO, this price gap is giving people enough sticker shock that they're saying, "I don't care if it IS better, that's too much money." Granted, things are getting better, but not much. Blank prices have been falling into an appropriate range. But recorder prices have been staying the same while manufacturers cram everything into smaller and smaller units at the cost of usability and expense. Now they need to focus on usability and cost cutting. (My R50 is significantly easier to use than current models, including my Aiwa C80.) But, I think the biggest problem is simply consumer education. Everyone who has seen and heard my MD recorder in action wants one; especially when they understand MD's advantages over other media. But this information gets lost in the noise when someone ventures into an electronics store. Think of it, you have hundreds of square feet of huge electronic noisemakers (big screen TVs, monstrous speakers, racks and racks of stereo equipment, etc.) it's VERY easy to overlook these tiny little devices that would take no more than 4 square feet even if the store carried every model made. Add to this the fact that you can only find MD in dedicated electronics stores, and that those stores don't usually carry more than two or three models and the consumer either won't even notice them or conclude that it's a niche market. (And it currently is.) The MD industry MUST find a way to educate the consumer and make MD systems available everywhere that tape recorders and CD players are, including electronics departments of major department stores, mom and pop stores, music retailers and ESPECIALLY music instrument retailers. Here are the things consumers need to learn about MD: -- Convenience. Consider how convenient these tiny things are. You can fit any portable player/recorder in any pocket you have. (Except maybe a watch pocket.) Can you say that about a CD player? NO! Can you say that about a tape player/recorder. Not usually. You can take them anywhere you can take a portable tape recorder. Can you say that about a CD recorder? No. You can rerecord and edit a MD any time you want. Can you say that about a CD? NO! Is it as easy to edit a tape? NO! Can you quickly jump to any spot on a tape like to can on a MD? NO! You can carry more MD discs in your car than either tapes or CDs. You can even carry a bunch in your pockets. You can't do that with CDs or many tapes. Can you get more time out of a tape by changing a setting on your recorder? No, not unless you have a special (read: expensive) recorder. MD also provides the ability to make one digital copy of your CDs. This means that I can have a copy of my favorite CDs in the car while the original CD stays in my office where it's both safe, and available in my office. Many people do this with a tape, but the quality is not nearly as good and they have to worry about flipping the tape over during the recording process. A MD copy is as simple as pushing two buttons: record on the recorder and play on the CD player. -- Reliability. Can you use a tape for as long as a MD? No. Can you rerecord a tape as
Re: MD: What up with MD
"Wow. I didn't expect this to turn into such a tirade. But here it is. I congratulate you if you've read this far. Sorry 'bout that. :-}" So what would you give as the explanation that the MD is so popular in Japan?? The people are more educated about it? I don't think that Sony spent more time and money educating the Japanese (a much smaller market) then they did the Americans. As far as price goes, yes portable players should be much less (and there should be a huge selection of prerecorded MDs to go along with the players). But you really can't compare portable cassette recorders, because they are not a readily available product. Go to the store and all you see are players. As for the cost of an MD vs tape, I don't think that you would pay less for a top of the line cassette tape then the $1.50 or so that MDs can be bought for if you look around. But that's on the net. The price in the stores would also have to be $1.50. I think that the simple fact is, for the most part, Sony has given up on the US market. They throw us a few units (along with Sharp) but they consider the US market strictly to have a "cult" following. They have moved on to these huge displays for the Stick. Sony and the other manufactures must love things like the stick. No moving parts. If something is going to go wrong with a unit that was not a lemon to begin with, moving parts would be my first guess. Also, they can make stick players for next ot nothing. The problem is the Stick itself. I think that the cost of memory is relatively expensive compared to a cassette, CD or even MD. Static RAM like the kind used in the stick is even more expensive. Just how low can they drop the price of a stick?? Can they drop it to $1.00 for 650 MB? I don't think so. But I admit I'm clueless as to the actual cost of memory for the OEM. I don't think that we are ever going to see growth in the MD market place in the US. Regards, Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
At 8/7/00 11:58 AM, las increased the world's knowledge by typing: So what would you give as the explanation that the MD is so popular in Japan?? I'm no expert on Japan, so this is only an educated guess. That said, it's my understanding that Japan is a much more technology oriented society than the US. They're more willing to try something new and cool than the US is. It also seems that they are big fans of miniaturization, something MiniDisc excels at over older technologies. They also have a significantly larger choice of models, lower media cost, and other related infrastructure such as the ability to have a selection of songs placed on a MD at a kiosk. As for the cost of an MD vs tape, I don't think that you would pay less for a top of the line cassette tape then the $1.50 or so that MDs can be bought for if you look around. But that's on the net. The price in the stores would also have to be $1.50. I think the prices of the discs themselves aren't too far out of line anymore. They're still about 50% more than a decent audio tape, which isn't _too_ bad. But there's still some room for improvement. Sony and the other manufactures must love things like the stick. No moving parts. If something is going to go wrong with a unit that was not a lemon to begin with, moving parts would be my first guess. Also, they can make stick players for next ot nothing. In other words, "Profit Margin." They must be raking it in right now. I wonder how long it will be before the consumers realize how expensive and limited those pieces of junk are and there's a major backlash. The problem is the Stick itself. I think that the cost of memory is relatively expensive compared to a cassette, CD or even MD. Static RAM like the kind used in the stick is even more expensive. Just how low can they drop the price of a stick?? Can they drop it to $1.00 for 650 MB? I don't think so. But I admit I'm clueless as to the actual cost of memory for the OEM. The cost for RAM is outrageous on comparison to magnetic and MO medio. The current low price for computer RAM is in the $.75/MB range and hasn't gone any lower than that for a year. The price I last paid for MDs was about $.023/MB (assuming that MDs hold about 140 MB.) But I paid about $.001/MB for CDRs the last time I bought them. There is no way that RAM is going to get anywhere close to those costs any time in the next 10 years, if then. And in the mean time, I expect MO media costs to continue to drop. I don't think that we are ever going to see growth in the MD market place in the US. I've seen it in my area, but only as a result of other people seeing me use my equipment. I think that's the only way it will grow. BTW... I'm staying away from the prerecorded discs question. In my personal usage, I prefer to buy a CD then copy to a MD for portable use while the original CD stays safely (and conveniently) in my office. But you're right about people not buying players only without a selection of prerecorded discs to choose from. Ed "What the" Heckman [EMAIL PROTECTED] +--+ | It is the man who goes straight to his goal, obstacle or no | | obstacle, that commands our respect, gets our confidence, and| | gets to the front. He is the man who is sought in an emergency, | | not the man who is afraid of obstacles, who magnifies| | difficulties.| | -- Orison Swett Marden | +--+ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: What up with MD
I wonder if it's a little too late in this discussion to point out that if a format fails in the U.S. it doesn't actually mean that it's dead? Of course, the U.S. is a hugely lucrative market, and any manufacturer is going to want their product to succeed there, but outside the shadow of the star spangled banner, the rest of us do actually manage to muddle along somehow. Japan has been MD obsessive for some years now, and the market penetration there alone is enough to ensure the longevity of the format. Here in Europe, things are not that far behind, - non Japanese manufacturers produce MD equipment, all music stores have pre recorded MD's for sale [though maybe the racks look a little dusty], MD equipment is carried in all electronics stores, blanks are available in all supermarkets, and just today I noticed that here in the UK, the Guardian newspaper advised that applicants for BBC radio news presenters were invited to submit an audition MD. As long as credit cards and the internet exist, MD will be a successful format whichever part of the world you happen to live in. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
preaching to the converted I know. Wow!! This is spooky. I had my e mail window set small so I couldn't see you entire e mail. I was just about to e mail you stating that you are preaching to the converted when I got to the end of your e mail. Sony gave it one last push in this country a year or so ago. Ws it 98 or 99 that they declared, "The year of the Mini Disc. They invested 30 million dollars in TV ads. The ads weren't worth 2 cents. They were lame. Some ad agency convinced them that if you put big name stars in your commercial that was all it would take for the MD to take off. Bull! If I ever get the time I'll describe the commercial that I would have made. I don't know if it would have increased business, but people would have never forgot the commercial. Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
| So what would you give as the explanation that the MD is so popular in Japan?? | The people are more educated about it? I don't think that Sony spent more time | and money educating the Japanese (a much smaller market) then they did the | Americans. Another question: exactly how "standard" is MD in Japan? I mean, everywhere you go, are their CDs AND MDs? How cool would that be? That's some sort of dream here! /jcrd - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
I think they would do a lot better if they stopped comming out with all the new models and tried to market something at a lower price. If the price for a recorder breaks $100 US they will sell like hot cakes. I know a heck of a lot of musicians that would spring for one in a minute except they can't afford to pay 4200 TO $300 for one. "J. C. R. Davis" wrote: | So what would you give as the explanation that the MD is so popular in Japan?? | The people are more educated about it? I don't think that Sony spent more time | and money educating the Japanese (a much smaller market) then they did the | Americans. Another question: exactly how "standard" is MD in Japan? I mean, everywhere you go, are their CDs AND MDs? How cool would that be? That's some sort of dream here! /jcrd - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Jim Coon Not just another pretty mandolin picker. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet? My first web page http://www.tir.com/~liteways - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
I sold MD stuff for about a year and a half on and off. I never visited Japan, but the importer told me that CDs were very expensive in Japan. I guess that one person buys a CD and makes copies for all of his friends. Maybe they take turns as to who buys the CD. Can't you see the argument, "But I bought the Brittney Spears CD, now its your turn to buy the Jennifer Lopez!" Larry "J. C. R. Davis" wrote: | So what would you give as the explanation that the MD is so popular in Japan?? | The people are more educated about it? I don't think that Sony spent more time | and money educating the Japanese (a much smaller market) then they did the | Americans. Another question: exactly how "standard" is MD in Japan? I mean, everywhere you go, are their CDs AND MDs? How cool would that be? That's some sort of dream here! /jcrd - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
Hi Jim. "I think they would do a lot better if they stopped coming out with all the new models and tried to market something at a lower price. If the price for a recorder breaks $100 US they will sell like hot cakes." Just how well do hot cakes sell?? I think that McDonalds sells more hamburgers then anyone sells hot cakes! Seriously, I'm beginning to think that price may no longer make a difference. On the other hand, how may people do you think even really know what a mini disc is?? At 75 cents a disc and $99.00 for a recorder, they could open a completely new market and most people would think that it was something brand new. They'd be thinking, "like the digital cameras, only for music" Regards, Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
As long as credit cards and the internet exist, MD will be a successful format whichever part of the world you happen to live in. John Yes but dot forget that e commerce is only really a few years old. We are luck to have it. Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
las wrote: "like the digital cameras, only for music" I think we have the tag line for our commercial! - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
Charles Redell wrote: las wrote: "like the digital cameras, only for music" I think we have the tag line for our commercial! I'll bet that they have already sold more digital cameras then MD, units in the US. Now the digital camera isn't cheap. Yet they seem to sell well and you have tons of choices. That's not counting all of those "web cameras". Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
On 06-08-2000 07:15, las wrote: MD could still be a big thing if a) People were educated. b) They started to fill music stores with prerecorded MDs that were selling for the price of cassettes, not CDs. c) They started offering recorders and players at realistic and competitive prices. I can't see any reason why a portable MD player should cost more then a portable CD player. And don't forget complexity; they shoud have sold low-end MD recorders that are the equivalent of a tape deck: record, play, pause, stop, fast-forward, rewind. No frills like editing etc., way too daunting for the average technofobe (my parents or sister, for instance). But everyone has their hits and misses. When Phillips and Sony got together and created the CD they eventually had a hit on their hands (CDs were not moving off of the shelves for quite some time after they were introduced). Sony had Beta. Phillips had the DCC. Philips also had their own video format that failed: V2000. It failed because they refused to rent porn tapes. You have to admit that the DCC was a much bigger failure then Beta. Beta is still used professionally and did generate some sales. But how many people do you know who own a DCC? Two. They're quite happy with them, they bought their (portable) recorders just after they wer discontinued for bargain-base prices. But a downside to DCC is the size of the media; while it was sort of a boon that regular analog cassettes can be played in them, it was already determined that protable DCC equipment would never be smaller than a casstte box. Look how tiny the latest MD protables are... Phillips also had the CD-I. Another bust. Expensive and you had to buy a separate video module to play movies and certain games. The quality of the movies was not good. This is an interesting comparison... CD-I failed mostly because it's biggest competitor was the CD-ROM, which emerged more or less at the same time. CD-ROM is much more versatile, and came out on top. I daresay part of the problem with MD is that DataMD never caught on, for various reasons (speed, interchangeability with MusicMD, price...). When I was a kid RCA had the original cassette. It was much bigger in size then the compact cassette, but didn't sell. DATs never caught on in the consumer market. Because of copy protection schemes, mostly, I think. Which is in part what is holding MiniDisc back. Look at the MP3 craze; people are willing to settle for lesser audio quality, if it means they can easily record and swap music. In a sense, this is why compact cassettes are still quite popular; a taped copy of a CD sounds like crap, but it's cheap, easy to make, and you can swap it easily. ,xtG .tsooJ -- Joost van de Griek Applications Developer Yacht ICT http://www.yachtgroup.com/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
"Philips also had their own video format that failed: V2000. It failed because they refused to rent porn tapes." The whole video tape thing might have never gotten anywhere if it were not for porn. That's a fact. The original tapes that were available for sale/rental were porn. There's a case where what some people might consider vulgar, offensive, immoral or what ever, brought upon the availability of people being able to watch the greatest movies ever made. Right in their homes, when they want, with no commercials and uncut. With DVDs we are now seeing alternate versions of movies on the same disc. I personally don't have an opinion about so called porn. There is a time and a place for almost everything. If it offends you don't watch it. But don't tell others what to do as you sit there watching the Sound of Music (which you could have never seen uncut with no commercials if it were not for X rated videos). Getting off of the MD topic, sorry. I would love to see the results of a prerecorded MD vs CD test. I seriously doubt that if all the other factors are equal most people could hear the difference between a well produced and recorded MD and a CD. I make all of my MDs using digital connections. But when I first got my MZ-1 I had to wait for the optical cable to come in. So I made some discs in analog. I find it impossible to tell which are which using headphones. This is not to say that I don't recommend people use digital connections. But sometimes I wonder if most people can hear the difference. I think that it comes down to the equipment that you are using. On a set of $40 headphones, I don't think you could tell. But maybe on a very high end system with top of the line Polk speakers for example you can. More ramblings of a mad man Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
las wrote: I make all of my MDs using digital connections. But when I first got my MZ-1 I had to wait for the optical cable to come in. So I made some discs in analog. I find it impossible to tell which are which using headphones. This is not to say that I don't recommend people use digital connections. But sometimes I wonder if most people can hear the difference. I think that it comes down to the equipment that you are using. On a set of $40 headphones, I don't think you could tell. But maybe on a very high end system with top of the line Polk speakers for example you can. Exactly my original point. I am not an audiophile but I do recognize a good and useful media when I see it. I would not hear the difference on $40 headphones, and probably not on $150 headphones either (unless it was pointed out to me)... What I care about, and what makes MD so attractive to me is its convience. Sony et al must know that people tape CDs for each other all the time. And they can't be so stupid as to think that they wiil kill off services/programs like Napster Stuff like that will always be going on on the Net... why don't they make it easy and available for the most people to do it in the best format? They would make more money than Microsoft (and probably get sued by the governement too)! Charlie - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
Good point... I have seen a few bands come through town using drun tracks and click tracks with little MD players and instructions for sound guys. Way more convienent than DAT... c J. Coon wrote: === = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === Charles Redell wrote: I hate to say this but I really have to say that I don't think we are going to see MD become the cassette of the aughts and tens Sony has very much abandonded the concept here and is now marketing it solely to us, those people who will pay more for quality sound and performance... Well, a lot of musicians are discovering them for the first time. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
On 4 Aug 2000, at 21:19, las wrote: From all of the e mails I have read here, it seems that even Best Buy has thrown in the towel on MD. They still stock plenty of it in Sacramento, where the Good Guys also reports selling a lot of it. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
Charles Redell wrote: I hate to say this but I really have to say that I don't think we are going to see MD become the cassette of the aughts and tens Sony has very much abandonded the concept here and is now marketing it solely to us, those people who will pay more for quality sound and performance... I agree, it's a niche market. It has been a niche market for quite some time, and it seems that some of the execs at Sony are happy to keep it that way. I have no idea why, there are MANY things they could have done that would have made it FAR more successful than it is now. It's odd, if you think about it because Sony (and Sharp and JVC etc...) COULD make so much more money if they made portable MD players and recorders: 1) sturdy for actual use outside of the home 2)easily compatable with computer downloads (which from my lurking on this list sounds like its a hard thing to do. (I don't downlaod now due to a slow connection)). Actually computer downloads would have been pretty easy. There have already been people with the ability to write their own ATRAC codecs that work on PC's. An MP3 to ATRAC converter would have been pretty simple. They could have done it all in software and just had a USB data interface that transfers the raw ATRAC data to some kind of MD device which would write it directly to disc. An ATRAC codec on the PC side would also be easily upgradeable. I think it just comes down to Sony's indifference to the MP3 market when it comes to MD. They'd rather try to push their memory stick for Internet music. I have no idea why, memory stick is still WAY too expensive. If they made portables that were truely portable, of semi-decent quality and, of course, afforadable(not US$200 or more) MD would fly off the shelves. They have sports walkmen, sports CDmen (which, like all discmen is totally clunky and dumb) , and I'm sure I've seen portable, sports TVs If they can get a picture to work in any portable TV or DVD player, they can make a sturdier portable MD. Well, I don't think MD portables would fly off the shelves that quickly unless there were prerecorded media available as well. Sony failed to see the importance of prerecorded media, but consider some of the most successful media - CD, CD-ROM, DVD, DVD-ROM... those all started out as READ ONLY media which had a WIDE offering of prerecorded selections available. For everyone that like self-recording, there are probably 10 people that would rather just buy a prerecorded disc. Obviously music is going to be downloaded... whatever format can downlaod is going to win. Their insistence on not making MDs easily compatible with MP3s is the begining of the death knoll for the MD. Money is being poured into MP3 and its players here in the states so that is what people know and will buy. No one knows MD exisits except those who actually research these kinds of things, and we are in the minority. What is available is king. What is convienent and at hand wins and my friends, the makers of MD are not making it convient or available. I definitely agree. I think it would even be easy to design an MP3 compatible MD recorder with existing technology for a very low price. Sony is just complacent when it comes to MD. They're placing all their bets on memory stick. I think Sony has found a way to shove a memory stick slot in every single digital device they come out with these days. Now if they had discretely placed an MD slot in every one of their CD players, car stereos, digital cameras, etc, it would have been far more successful. I don't know why Sony also didn't take JVC's idea and make a combination MD/CD transport. They could have designed a few variations of combo MD/CD transports and slickly integrated MD into all their CD/DVD offerings. Shawn 1stUp.com - Free the Web Get your free Internet access at http://www.1stUp.com - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
Obviously music is going to be downloaded... whatever format can downlaod is going to win. Their insistence on not making MDs easily compatible with MP3s is the begining of the death knoll for the MD. Money is being poured into MP3 and its players here in the states so that is what people know and will buy. I agree with you on this. If MD is not made (easily) MP3 compatible it probably will die, or at least never become a mainstream long term product. I think one of the problems with this is that Sony are very much anti-MP3 as such - they have a bit of a dilemma here, having large record publishing/copyright interests and having at the same time a small, cheap portable recording device that could easily become an MP3 player as well. Making an MD player compatible with the Sony proprietary (copyright protected) MP3 alternative is not really going to save it, they have to get on the MP3 wave and I think that is very difficult for them to do, from a corporate POV... Another possible problem may be a technical one - the main reason (besides poor marketing) that dataMD failed was the slow write speed of MD. Whilst MD write speeds have improved over the years, I wonder if they are fast enough to provide market-acceptable MP3 data transfer speeds, compared to flash memory devices? (I would think so, especially as a disc based system has huge cost benefits (at the moment) over flash memory) GB - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: What up with MD
Sony failed to see the importance of prerecorded media, but consider some of the most successful media - When the MD was first introduced, Sony had huge displays for prerecorded MDs. I remember this huge picture of Michael Jackson and a really complex high class display. But the store didn't actually have any to sell!! MD could still be a big thing if a) People were educated. b) They started to fill music stores with prerecorded MDs that were selling for the price of cassettes, not CDs. c) They started offering recorders and players at realistic and competitive prices. I can't see any reason why a portable MD player should cost more then a portable CD player. But everyone has their hits and misses. When Phillips and Sony got together and created the CD they eventually had a hit on their hands (CDs were not moving off of the shelves for quite some time after they were introduced). Sony had Beta. Phillips had the DCC. You have to admit that the DCC was a much bigger failure then Beta. Beta is still used professionally and did generate some sales. But how many people do you know who own a DCC? Phillips also had the CD-I. Another bust. Expensive and you had to buy a separate video module to play movies and certain games. The quality of the movies was not good. When I was a kid RCA had the original cassette. It was much bigger in size then the compact cassette, but didn't sell. DATs never caught on in the consumer market. BTW, who has the license on the DVD?? There's one that really made it. Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: What up with MD
From all of the e mails I have read here, it seems that even Best Buy has thrown in the towel on MD. They were at one time one of the stores in the US with the largest selection of MD stuff. It seems that MDs Mommy and Daddy (Sony), after being clueless as to how to market MD in the US, have abandoned their child in favor of the "Stick". I have a few suggestions as to what they can do with their stick. There are advantages and disadvantages to both solid state and the MD. But if you are buying a portable recording unit to build up a collection of music and at the same time be able to take it anywhere, I don't see how that is possible with the stick. Unless you have so much money that it is no object. With decent quality MDs selling for as low as $1.50 each people out there are really missing the boat. I keep forgetting to inquire here from one of my InterSil (formerly RCA Semi Conductor, GE and Harris Corp.) friends what it would cost a company like Sony for the chip in a stick. It might be possible that in large quantities it is cheaper to manufacture a stick then an MD. So Sony will sucker people as long as they can and then drop the price. But some how I don't think that you can make the type of memory in the stick or a flash card for less then an MD. Perhaps someone on the list actually knows (not guessing) about what it costs to produce this type of memory. If you use solid state media you can eliminate any circuitry needed for the so called 'ESP" (the buffer). Regards, Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
