Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
Stainless Steel Rat wrote: * las [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 12 Jun 2001 | That's not correct. At least not with the models before the FM90! Aiwa is | a totally separate operation from Sony. On paper, maybe. The difference between Sony and Aiwa is very much like the difference between Ford and Lincoln. | They have separate facilities and design their own stuff. If you have | ever looked at an Aiwa F80 and compared it with what ever model was out | from Sony at the same time, you can see that these units have nothing in | common. On the outside. I disagree. Shawn, you have my comments followed by Ratman's statement on the outside. While you did enlighten me about new Lincolns, I just wanted to make it clear that the statement you are disagreeing with (On the outside) is not mine. It was stated by Ratman. You and I are in total agreement about there being more than two manufactures of their own MD gear. In terms of design inside and out, my Aiwa F 80 doesn't seem to have anything in common with any of the Sony models from the same time period. The controls are different. features are totally different. Remotes are totally different. By only having a headphone/line out jack, if anything the unit is more like a Sharp than a Sony. Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:55:27 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neil, I assume what he was trying to say is that someone who is always confronting everyone about everything Assuming that we buy that perspective. should Why should? What makes this a should? Conventional wisdom? Equity? Leverage? tell us why he is better than any and every one of us. Assuming that we buy that perspective (TM). Not to be confrontational, but there have been a couple of instances where I know I am right, and Mr. Rat has come out with a story I had never heard of (case in point: the Dolby patent on ATRAC). So there's been some debate, and disagreement on a mailing list. No doubt some discovery and further discussion. Are mailing lists, and other forums here simply for people to say I agree.? Why should this get personal? And why should credibility, leverage or other aspects be relevant? I mean, disagreeing every once in a while is *good*, but someone who is *always* disagreeing about *everything* becomes bothersome after a short while. You don't have to discuss with him, if you don't want to - AFAIK nobody puts a gun to your's or anybody else's head. Neil ___ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
=== = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === las wrote: Stainless Steel Rat wrote: * las [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 12 Jun 2001 | That's not correct. At least not with the models before the FM90! Aiwa is | a totally separate operation from Sony. On paper, maybe. The difference between Sony and Aiwa is very much like the difference between Ford and Lincoln. | They have separate facilities and design their own stuff. If you have | ever looked at an Aiwa F80 and compared it with what ever model was out | from Sony at the same time, you can see that these units have nothing in | common. On the outside. I disagree. Shawn, you have my comments followed by Ratman's statement on the outside. While you did enlighten me about new Lincolns, I just wanted to make it clear that the statement you are disagreeing with (On the outside) is not mine. It was stated by Ratman. Larry, Oh, I know it was Rat I was disagreeing with. There's no confusion there. IMO, he's been making a lot of unsupported blanket statements lately. BTW, it's not just the new Lincolns that are built on Ford (or modified Ford) platforms... they've been doing that since at least the mid-1970's or so. GM has been doing the same thing since about that time. At one time Cadillacs were on their own platform too, but not since the mid-70's. It's a lot cheaper that way. You and I are in total agreement about there being more than two manufactures of their own MD gear. In terms of design inside and out, my Aiwa F 80 doesn't seem to have anything in common with any of the Sony models from the same time period. The controls are different. features are totally different. Remotes are totally different. By only having a headphone/line out jack, if anything the unit is more like a Sharp than a Sony. Even test mode is different! I found an Auto Adjust feature on my Aiwa XR-H66MD and I've NEVER found any kind of automatic adjustment on any 1996-vintage Sony MD player/recorder. Shawn - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
=== = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === Stainless Steel Rat wrote: * Shawn Lin [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Fri, 15 Jun 2001 | Even test mode is different! I found an Auto Adjust feature on my | Aiwa XR-H66MD and I've NEVER found any kind of automatic adjustment on | any 1996-vintage Sony MD player/recorder. You make it sound like it is impossible for Sony to disable things like that. And they would disable it because... Shawn - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
And they would disable it because... Shawn Why, because Aiwa *is* rebadged Sony gear, of course! ;) Francisco I am beggining to enjoy this Huerta. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
* Shawn Lin [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Fri, 15 Jun 2001 | You make it sound like it is impossible for Sony to disable things like | that. | And they would disable it because... So that consumers don't muck around inside their gear and break things and return otherwise perfectly good units and cut into their profits. So that consumers don't find something they shouldn't, like the secret menu in the APEX A-600 DVD deck. -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
Stainless Steel Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * Shawn Lin [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Fri, 15 Jun 2001 | Even test mode is different! I found an Auto Adjust feature on my | Aiwa XR-H66MD and I've NEVER found any kind of automatic adjustment on | any 1996-vintage Sony MD player/recorder. You make it sound like it is impossible for Sony to disable things like that. Conjecture upon conjecture! Mr. Rat, please stop! You lost this pointless argument when I indicated that Panasonic makes their own MD components (they've been making their own ATRAC chips for 5 years [see http://www.minidisc.org/atrac_4.html], and 2 years back they were touting their newly developed super-thin, single-beam, Minidisc optical head [see http://www.minidisc.org/part_Panasonic_SJ-MR100.html]). I say pointless because this is, by extension, an argument over a previous (and equally baseless) conjecture of yours, to wit: Then sometime after ATRAC v4.5 they collaborated with Dolby Laboratories to make improvements for mutual benefit. The results are Dolby Digital has some of ATRAC in it and current versions of Sony ATRAC have some AC3 in them. which itself should have ended with a simple Got a reference for that? and you saying either No, I made it up, or Yes, please see: http://...; I find myself arguing with you [mostly] because your style irritates me, but also [naively] because I hope that in proving you wrong, you will come to your senses and stop posting your personal beliefs as writ-in-stone fact to MD-L. Likewise, perhaps you feel that unless you win these arguments, the validity of your beliefs will be called into question (could be painful, admittedly). This is the issue at hand, not how many MD manufacturers there are, or whether Dolby and Sony collaborated on ATRAC and AC3. The funny thing is, many of your postings really *are* informed and helpful, and I hope you keep posting contributions in areas where people are confused and you *Really Do Know The Straight Scoop*. But may I gently suggest that if you aren't completely sure of what you're saying, you use AFAIK, or IIRC, or My understanding is Or simply pose your statement as a question (e.g. Isn't it the case that all MD gear ultimately comes from Sony or Sharp factories?). Likewise, if someone shows you to be wrong, graciously and politely say Oops, Sorry! It's simple, it's friendly, and you will not be a lesser person for doing this, honest! Peace. Rick (who has finally dusted off his own ego) - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
Stainless Steel Rat wrote: * Shawn Lin [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Fri, 15 Jun 2001 | You make it sound like it is impossible for Sony to disable things like | that. | And they would disable it because... So that consumers don't muck around inside their gear and break things and return otherwise perfectly good units and cut into their profits. That makes absolutely no sense. Automatic adjustment is far more harmless than full manual adjustment. Obviously manual adjustment requires the service technician to know what he's doing, otherwise he very well could break things like you say. With automatic adjustment the machine autocalibrates itself, the service technician doesn't need to know anything but the proper keystrokes to invoke auto adjust. How does the lack of automatic adjustment prevent cutting into profits? What makes you think the presence of an auto adjust feature is more likely to cause a consumer to much around and break something? I don't see the logic in it. So that consumers don't find something they shouldn't, like the secret menu in the APEX A-600 DVD deck. Yeah, and we've all had such a hard time finding the manual service mode on Sony equipment. Getting into Sony test mode and Aiwa test mode takes pretty much the same procedure, just different buttons. Shawn - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:36:26 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So tell us about you, please. Why is this relevant for this discussion? ie that you would like to know about him? I think that we would all like to know more about you. Who is this we you presume to speak for? What do you do? Are you a student? Are you older than that and out in the real world? And why are you so interested in his background? Is it necessary, for validity of his standpoint? Or do you simply want to know somebody's background / history, before arguing with him? Is this a Sun Tzu thing, or simply some subtle, or non-too-subtle, suggestion about credibility and background? Or is it mere curiosity? Neil ___ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
* Francisco J. Huerta [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Thu, 14 Jun 2001 | I mean, disagreeing every once in a while is *good*, but someone who is | *always* disagreeing about *everything* becomes bothersome after a short | while. If I always disagreed about everything... oh, never mind. -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ head. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
Francisco J. Huerta wrote: Neil, I assume what he was trying to say is that someone who is always confronting everyone about everything should tell us why he is better than any and every one of us. Not to be confrontational, but there have been a couple of instances where I know I am right, and Mr. Rat has come out with a story I had never heard of (case in point: the Dolby patent on ATRAC). I mean, disagreeing every once in a while is *good*, but someone who is *always* disagreeing about *everything* becomes bothersome after a short while. Francisco (Masters in Technology Administration, Mechanical Engineer, if- anyone is asking). Francisco, that is precisely correct. At one time or another everyone on this list has given information that they really believed was accurate. My statements about Ford being different from Lincoln for example. Shawn tells me that Lincolns are now being manufactured from Ford bodies. The information that I stated may no longer be accurate. But I know that Lincolns used to be totally different cars from Fords. No Ford in my life time every had doors where they were mirror images of themselves. But the Lincoln Continental did at one time. Makings doors where the handles are next to each other and they open from the middle takes more than just reversing the hinges, like you can on a refrigerator. But I have not kept up with the most recent Lincoln models. Shawn usually doesn't make a statement unless he is very sure about it. So I believe that he is more than likely correct. To use Shawn again as an example (Shawn, I'm only using you because I have known you since you started college and know a little about you and your skills), he has told us about his buying old non functioning Sony units and repairing them. Years ago I also had more extensive private e mail conversations with him (so I know even more about his talents). He also undertook to run the Mini Disc Appreciation Page. First of all this was a great deal of work and time to do. Anyone capable of placing all of the information on a web site, had to have a fairly extensive knowledge of audio equipment and MD in particular. But we know nothing about the Ratman. If he did not constantly and rudely disagree with just about everyone else on the list, it would not matter (for myself, I also enjoy hearing a little about what people I meet on the internet do and like to share with them-that is also an other reason. When I say we, who is we?, was a question. Well there is myself and other people on the list that I privately e mail. Even one other person would qualify for use of the term we. Don't you think that this list would be an even more interesting place to exchange ideas if you knew a little about each member. I have had e mails from people on the list as young as 14 with more wisdom than someone 40. I find the knowledge and maturity that some people of youth exhibit here VERY impressive. I doubt that I was as sharp as they are, but as I have mentioned before, I have been into Hi Fi (that's would we used to refer to it as) since I was about 12. Back then most 12 year olds didn't even know what a woofer or tweeter was (but then again, I couldn't hit a base ball or catch one if it was placed in the glove :). I was different than the average kid. There was no term nerd back then, but if someone interested in electronics and science, who knows very little about sports and really couldn't care less is a nerd, then I guess I was a nerd :). Except for my being interested in knowing about people in general, Francisco's reply was exactly my point. But, I personally feel too many people spend too much time on a keyboard exchanging technical information without knowing anything about the other person. If you just want technical answers and really don't care about people (to me it seems like you are kind of using them) that's fine. But I am also interested in the people behind the answers. The people giving these answers are real flesh and blood. They are not a data base. If a person does not wish to share anything about him/herself with others, that's their right. But then I also have the right to be suspect as to the accuracy of their data. Larry (as most of you know I am a dentist) - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
It never ceases to amaze me how people automatically think one brand is the same as the other simply because they have almost 54% share in that company. Adios, LarZ --- TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums --- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of las Sent: Wednesday, 13 June 2001 11:11 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents) Stainless Steel Rat wrote: Aiwa = Sony, as you say. The guts of any Aiwa MD player or recorder are Sony parts. That's not correct. At least not with the models before the FM90! Aiwa is a totally separate operation from Sony. They have separate facilities and design their own stuff. If you have ever looked at an Aiwa F80 and compared it with what ever model was out from Sony at the same time, you can see that these units have nothing in common. LAS - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
* Shawn Lin [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 13 Jun 2001 | I disagree. Inside my Aiwa XR-H66MD is definitely different than most | Sony equipment that I've seen. Aiwa uses Sony parts, and that's as far | as the similarities go as far as I can tell. However, just about all my | audio equipment from other manufacturers uses Sony parts too (as well as | Motorola, TI, Matsushita, Siemens, Burr-Brown, etc.). And this just confirms my original point about Sony's competition. | My XR-H66MD doesn't operate like any of my Sony MD recorders either, and | its Service Mode is VERY different than Sony's. I think many Aiwa models | don't share the same PCB's with any Sony-branded unit. Maybe not, but look at what is soldered to those PCBs, and you'll find a lot of Sony hardware, either branded that way or licensed. -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core, Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
* las [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 12 Jun 2001 | NO. That is simply not correct. Not only that, but the analogy simply | does not apply. If you had said Ford and Mercury, the analogy would be | closer, but you would still be incorrect. Ahem. FYI, Lincoln is a Ford Motor Company company, just like Mercury. (sigh) -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ head. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
Aiwa having the same circuits as Sony sounds to me as Bentley using the same pieces as a VW just because VW owns it... OTOH, they both use steel, so yes, I guess they are sharing technology. Francisco. - Original Message - From: las [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 5:41 PM Subject: Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents) Tony Antoniou wrote: It never ceases to amaze me how people automatically think one brand is the same as the other simply because they have almost 54% share in that company. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
Stainless Steel Rat wrote: Ahem. FYI, Lincoln is a Ford Motor Company company, just like Mercury. (sigh) NO KIDDING! But in you constant effort to be contrary you failed to get my point! The Ford motor company manufactures Lincolns, but there are no Lincoln models that can be directly compared to Fords. The Mercury division manufactures models that are identical to Ford models (except for some cosmetic changes). The usually even share the same sheet metal. But the Lincoln is totally different from either the Ford or Mercury. It just happens to be owned by the Ford motor company. Hey, why don't you tell us about yourself for a change instead of just disagreeing with what everyone says? Most list members know that I am a dentist and probably one of the oldest members on the list. They also know that I did some MD sales on the side a few year ago? We know a little about Eric W. His web page is an open book with pictures of his cute son and beautiful wife, as well as himself. Jim Coons is an engineer. He also plays in a band. Len Moskowitz is a recording engineer and like me has been around for a while (I think that he has me beat by a few years, but I could be wrong). He also own Core Sound and is probably the most knowledgeable person on the list when it comes to Microphones and placement as well as cables. I could go on. So tell us about you, please. I think that we would all like to know more about you. What do you do? Are you a student? Are you older than that and out in the real world? Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
* Francisco J. Huerta [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 13 Jun 2001 | Aiwa having the same circuits as Sony sounds to me as Bentley using the same | pieces as a VW just because VW owns it... | OTOH, they both use steel, so yes, I guess they are sharing technology. Substitute lens head assemblies and ATRAC circuits for steel and you hit the nail on the head. -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
Stainless Steel Rat wrote: * Shawn Lin [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 13 Jun 2001 | I disagree. Inside my Aiwa XR-H66MD is definitely different than most | Sony equipment that I've seen. Aiwa uses Sony parts, and that's as far | as the similarities go as far as I can tell. However, just about all my | audio equipment from other manufacturers uses Sony parts too (as well as | Motorola, TI, Matsushita, Siemens, Burr-Brown, etc.). And this just confirms my original point about Sony's competition. Your original point was that all MD equipment is rebadged Sony or Sharp, and that simply isn't true. Aiwa isn't even a rebadged Sony. I don't know what you consider rebadged, but to me rebadged means the internals IDENTICAL and the exterior cosmetics are the only difference. Rebadged does NOT mean uses some components from this manufacturer. Rebadged does NOT mean functionally dissimilar. So I don't see how I could have confirmed your point. | My XR-H66MD doesn't operate like any of my Sony MD recorders either, and | its Service Mode is VERY different than Sony's. I think many Aiwa models | don't share the same PCB's with any Sony-branded unit. Maybe not, but look at what is soldered to those PCBs, and you'll find a lot of Sony hardware, either branded that way or licensed. So they share the same chips, that doesn't mean they are rebadged versions of an existing Sony model. If they were, the entire PCB would be interchangeable between units. Sharing technology is totally different from rebadging. Shawn - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
las wrote: Stainless Steel Rat wrote: Ahem. FYI, Lincoln is a Ford Motor Company company, just like Mercury. (sigh) NO KIDDING! But in you constant effort to be contrary you failed to get my point! The Ford motor company manufactures Lincolns, but there are no Lincoln models that can be directly compared to Fords. The Mercury division manufactures models that are identical to Ford models (except for some cosmetic changes). The usually even share the same sheet metal. But the Lincoln is totally different from either the Ford or Mercury. It just happens to be owned by the Ford motor company. Actually, Lincolns ARE built on modified Ford platforms. Or at least they were. I used to own a Ford so I had interest in them at one time. Lincoln Town Car is built on a stretched version of the same platform as the Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis. Lincoln Continental is built on a stretched Ford Taurus/Sable platform. Lincoln Mark VIII was built on a Ford Thunderbird/Cougar platform. However, this doesn't prove Rat's point either, because Lincolns are much more similar to Ford-branded vehicles than Sony's are to Aiwa's. Lincolns fit the definition of being rebadged better than Aiwa MD players do (prior to the AM-F90 anyway). IMO, the analogy didn't fit from the beginning. Shawn - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
las [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Ford motor company manufactures Lincolns, but there are no Lincoln models that can be directly compared to Fords. The Mercury division manufactures models that are identical to Ford models (except for some cosmetic changes). In defense of Rat, the Ford Expedition and the Lincoln Navigator are basically identical automobiles ;) - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
Stainless Steel Rat wrote: Aiwa = Sony, as you say. The guts of any Aiwa MD player or recorder are Sony parts. That's not correct. At least not with the models before the FM90! Aiwa is a totally separate operation from Sony. They have separate facilities and design their own stuff. If you have ever looked at an Aiwa F80 and compared it with what ever model was out from Sony at the same time, you can see that these units have nothing in common. LAS - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
* las [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 12 Jun 2001 | That's not correct. At least not with the models before the FM90! Aiwa is | a totally separate operation from Sony. On paper, maybe. The difference between Sony and Aiwa is very much like the difference between Ford and Lincoln. | They have separate facilities and design their own stuff. If you have | ever looked at an Aiwa F80 and compared it with what ever model was out | from Sony at the same time, you can see that these units have nothing in | common. On the outside. -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ kept under refrigeration. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
Stainless Steel Rat wrote: On paper, maybe. The difference between Sony and Aiwa is very much like the difference between Ford and Lincoln. NO. That is simply not correct. Not only that, but the analogy simply does not apply. If you had said Ford and Mercury, the analogy would be closer, but you would still be incorrect. Aiwa is a separate company. They have their own designers, buy their components from whom they please and often make products that while doing the same thing, from the stand point of design and innards have nothing to do with Sony. What you are saying sounds like because most mini systems all look similar they are made by one company. Everyone steals from everyone else. If Sony hadn't invented the mini disc, there would never be Sharp MD products. If you use that reasoning in reality there would only be Sony MD regardless of the components and style. No company makes all of the components in their product these days. They either contract out or simply by from other manufactures. If you don't have enough use for a particular component, it will often be cheaper for you to purchase them from someone else than to manufacture them. The company that only makes widgets can mass produce them and sell hundreds of millions of widgets to other companies. In the process getting their cost per widget down very low. Suppose you make products that use widgets. But you only sell about a million units a year of stuff that has a widget in it. If you bought the raw materials, dies, and possibly licensing rights to make those million widgets they might cost you a dollar a widget. But the Widget company specializes in widgets. The buy hundreds of times more of the raw material than you can. So right off the bat their cost for raw material is less. Also since they only make widgets they can afford the fastest widget making machines. You may find that it is not practical to buy machines that make hundreds of millions of widgets a year when you only need a million. You capital investment will take too long to recover. So you go to the Widget Company. It costs the widget company ten cents a unit. They sell it to you for twenty cents. You are still saving eighty cents over what it would be for you to buy the equipment, raw materials and hire skilled workers to make your own widgets. Now let me give you a real example. Hewlett Packard sells computers with CD burners in them. They say CD Writer on them, just like HPs. But they are totally different units than the HP CD Writer you buy separately. You check your computer to see what it thinks the drive is and surprise it says Mitsumi!! The Mitsumi drive can not even read software designed specifically for the firmware in an HP CD Writer! Evidently Mitsumi can mass produce and sell CD burners for less than it costs HP to make genuine HP CD Writers. LAS - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Rebadged MD gear (was: Dolby and Minidisc Patents)
Stainless Steel Rat wrote: * las [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 12 Jun 2001 | That's not correct. At least not with the models before the FM90! Aiwa is | a totally separate operation from Sony. On paper, maybe. The difference between Sony and Aiwa is very much like the difference between Ford and Lincoln. | They have separate facilities and design their own stuff. If you have | ever looked at an Aiwa F80 and compared it with what ever model was out | from Sony at the same time, you can see that these units have nothing in | common. On the outside. I disagree. Inside my Aiwa XR-H66MD is definitely different than most Sony equipment that I've seen. Aiwa uses Sony parts, and that's as far as the similarities go as far as I can tell. However, just about all my audio equipment from other manufacturers uses Sony parts too (as well as Motorola, TI, Matsushita, Siemens, Burr-Brown, etc.). My XR-H66MD doesn't operate like any of my Sony MD recorders either, and its Service Mode is VERY different than Sony's. I think many Aiwa models don't share the same PCB's with any Sony-branded unit. Shawn - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
