Re: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
Luke I have limited experience with Sony md's. I heard one in a store playing some RB. But I have an 831 and my coworker have a 722 and we both love sharp's quality. I listen to Classical, Rock, Pop, alternative, and a little rap and the highs and bass and overall quality of the sound is near cd quality. I find it depends on the recording itself. If you download mp3's from the internet (like Napster.com) there is degradation in sound quality. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
I didn't realize you were recording digitally, using an optical cable. What is your digital source? A tape deck with optical out? At the moment I've tried only with the optical SPDIF output of my SB Live Platinum Live Drive II . (It's the only optical SPDIF gear I have). The input to the soundcard is SPDIF from my CD-ROM. I play an audio CD, and it sounds fine on preview, but cack on reply I have experienced this noise exactly as you have, when trying to record digitally from my laptop. It sounds fine when the MT831 is paused in recording preview mode, but the actual recording on minidisc has noise which sounds like its dropping LSBs, or the sample words are missaligned. Yikes! Sample words are missaligned? I personally know exactly what that sounds like - total freakshow noise. I would be very very surprised if that's what it actually was in your case. But I'm inclined to believe it because you say Recording in analog mode sounds fine, which makes me think its not the ATRAC compression, but something with the digital input -- ATRAC path. So I would *immediately* suspect the optical SPDIF output of your laptop. My soundcard for example only outputs at 48KHz optical - fortunately my MD-MT831 can convert from this to 44.1KHz. If your laptop outputs at 48KHz (or any sample rate other than 44.1KHz) and if your MiniDisc recorder does NOT incorporate a sample-rate converter in the digital input path, then that would be the cause of such a problem. But since you say you have also an 831 then possibly the optical output from your laptop is just screwy in some way. What is the source of the output (is it your soundcard, or an add-on board, or optical output direct from the CD-Rom?) Sorry, I don't know anything about copy-protection in SPDIF so I can't say whether that's a problem or not. (I didn't actually know audio SPDIF streams had copy-protection measures!) Back to my problem, which is more subtle: 1. I hear it when recording digitally AND when recording analogue. (So that rules out the non-standard 48KHz recording source as being a problem) 2. When I record-preview (so I'm listening to the original source) it sounds FINE but when I playback what I've just recorded it sounds noticeably different 3. The actual form of the difference is a warbling in the high frequencies (which I have also noticed on another Sharp player - I can't remember the model number - perhaps 7--something) a kind of fluttering distortion to any white noise, cymbals, hihats, essonance, and other complex sounds with high frequency components. Another artifact is the 'melting' of sharp attacks - percussive sounds (again, especially those with complex high frequency components) which normally have a sharp attack instead have a 'sweeping' attack (which is obviously still short but not as sharp as it should be). So instead of 'Duck Duck Duck' it's 'Whuck Whuck Whuck' I'll make some recordings and post them on the internet somewhere for other people to compare. I'll post the URL here sometime. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
* Dale Greer [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Fri, 05 May 2000 | Simon, this is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time. Thanks | for the wit Hey, at least both Ralph and I agreed on something ;). But it is not so much as the headphones causing hiss but seeming to cause hiss when what they are really doing is amplifying "peaky" high-frequency noise that would be inaudible with different/better headphones. The significant difference between Sony ATRAC and Sharp ATRAC is that Sharp tends to have better high-frequency response where Sony has better low- frequency response. If there is high-frequency noise in the original signal, the combination of Sharp ATRAC and hissy headphones could conceivably amplify it. -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
Luke, Yeah, analog soundcards on laptops can be REALLY bad depending on how well they isolated the analog circuitry from the digital circuitry. I've got a Gateway solo 9300 (or something like that) and it has an optical SPDIF connector (rectangular). I found a standard optical cable which directly plugs into both connectors. Chris Eddington Santa Clara, CA Luke Rayner wrote: Chris Eddington wrote: I have experienced this noise exactly as you have, when trying to record digitally from my laptop. Chris (and maybe others) how are you recording(digitally) from your laptop to md? i have a laptop running windows95 but currently the only way i can record is from the headphone output, which is terrible. i can hear the hard disk spinning etc. also, a few weeks ago someone posted about the sharp ATRAC being better than sony's for recording rock/contemporary music, ie cymbals etc sounded crisper. has anyone got any more comments on this? i know that the sharp ATRAC has problems with the french horn...but is it better for other types of music than sony's? luke Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apologies if this has been covered before. I find that my Sharp-831 does not offer particularly good compression. I can clearly HEAR the artifacts, especially if the music contains a quiet passage that contains a proportionately large amount of background hiss, and on cymbals, hihats, etc. Hmm, have you tried decent headphones? Mine that came with my 702 where crap, uther rubish... Swapped them for some Sony 238s (not the best but a lot better) which made a big improvement! Is this a feature of the Sharp ATRAC scheme or is it a limitation of portables in general? I ask this because I've borrowed some MDs of the SAME music recorded on a Sony deck (not portable) and the difference is quite astonishing. 1) Decks have better A/D converters. 2) The Sony and the Sharp ATRAC versions differ. There are some domains in which the Sony ATRAC performs better and there are some domains in which the Sharp ATRAC performs better. Cheers, dave Cheers, Ralph - who said the word 'crap' -- === Ralph SmeetsFunctional Verification Centre Of Competence - CMG Voice: (+33) (0)4 76 58 44 46 STMicroelectronics Fax:(+33) (0)4 76 58 40 11 5, chem de la Dhuy Mobile: (+33) (0)6 82 66 62 70 38240 MEYLAN E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FRANCE === "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then something happened which unleashed the powers of our imagination: We learned to talk." -- Stephen Hawking, later used by Pink Floyd -- === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
Rat wrote (in reply to Dave Hooper): * "Dave Hooper" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 03 May 2000 I find that my Sharp-831 does not offer particularly good compression. I can clearly HEAR the artifacts, especially if the music contains a quiet passage that contains a proportionately large amount of background hiss, and on cymbals, hihats, etc. First thing you should do is get a better set of headphones and see if that makes a difference. If you are hearing any hiss at all, that is probably the reason. Now we have a new subject to argue about, both Ralph and Rat have suggested that poor headphones can cause hiss. I don't think this is possible. I accept that any transducer can introduce its own harmonics and resonances, but HISS ? What is the mechanism ? In any case, Dave had written: I ask this because I've borrowed some MDs of the SAME music recorded on a Sony deck (not portable) and the difference is quite astonishing. Which implied (at least to me) that he had heard differences using the SAME portable headphones. simon - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
* Simon Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Thu, 04 May 2000 | Now we have a new subject to argue about, both Ralph and Rat have suggested | that poor headphones can cause hiss. I don't think this is possible. Bad gear sounds bad. One of the ways that bad gear sounds bad is a hissing or scratching sound with no obvious source. | I accept that any transducer can introduce its own harmonics and | resonances, but HISS ? What is the mechanism ? Perhaps poorly soldered contacts or unshielded connects inducing feedback of otherwise inaudible "artifacts" (they are not really artifacts if you cannot detect them). -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ of skin. PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
H... Ok - so if I'm recording digitally, I still hear the same artifacts. So that rules out the ADCs unless the Sharp has some kooky DAC-ADC design on the digital input. Which I'm pretty sure it doesn't. As for the guy who says 'get some better headphones' : The music I'm recording *HAS* hisss in the track. Better headphones would just let me hear the hisss better. My headphones are plugged into my minidisc headphone-out socket. If I record (either digitally or via analogue line-in) into my sharp831 I get a chance to preview the music as it goes into the MD recorder ... and it sounds NOTICEABLY different on record preview to how it sounds when I playback what I've just recorded - on the same MD unit - using the same headphones. So the actual headphones used are irrelevant here. Ideas or knowledge, anyone? (Should I maybe consider taking it back to the shop I bought it at? I've listened to a MD recorded on some Aiwa cheapy portable MD unit and it still sounds better than my twice-the-price Sharp portable.) Hey, are maybe Sharp portables not very good? And does the Aiwa portable use (as I suspect it probably does) the same ATRAC chipset as developed+used by Sony for the Sony portables? dave I find that my Sharp-831 does not offer particularly good compression. I can clearly HEAR the artifacts, especially if the music contains a quiet passage that contains a proportionately large amount of background hiss, and on cymbals, hihats, etc. Just remember, it could also be due to the ADCs. Decks often have much better ADCs than portables. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
* "Dave Hooper" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Thu, 04 May 2000 | So the actual headphones used are irrelevant here. Okay, one possible problem eliminated. | Ideas or knowledge, anyone? (Should I maybe consider taking it back to | the shop I bought it at? Yes. Seems that there might be a loose connection inside the unit, a bad solder point or something. My Sharp 702 exhibits no such problems. Same goes for friends' 701s, 702s, and 722s. So I highly doubt that it is the knee-jerk "Sharp sucks" response. -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ of skin. PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
=== The original message was multipart MIME=== === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed === Dave, I didn't realize you were recording digitally, using an optical cable. What is your digital source? A tape deck with optical out? I have experienced this noise exactly as you have, when trying to record digitally from my laptop. It sounds fine when the MT831 is paused in recording preview mode, but the actual recording on minidisc has noise which sounds like its dropping LSBs, or the sample words are missaligned. I was thinking that it is either the copyright flag bit in the SPDIF stream or some kind of format incompatibility with my laptop's output - but haven't had time to research. Recording in analog mode sounds fine, which makes me think its not the ATRAC compression, but something with the digital input -- ATRAC path. I even tried reducing and increasing the input levels to test if it is ADC quantization noise (but there should NOT be an ADC in the path, but I test anyway). The noise has the same magnitude and characteristics. My suspicion is the copy protection bit is active in the stream from my laptop, the MT831 recognizes this and reduces the compression quality. I will be very surprised (and very pissed off) if this was a bug in Sharp's design or poor compression quality on their part. Can anyone share their knowledge on what the copy protection bit will do in digital recording? Chris Eddington Sharp MT831-A owner Santa Clara, CA Dave Hooper wrote: H... Ok - so if I'm recording digitally, I still hear the same artifacts. So that rules out the ADCs unless the Sharp has some kooky DAC-ADC design on the digital input. Which I'm pretty sure it doesn't. As for the guy who says 'get some better headphones' : The music I'm recording *HAS* hisss in the track. Better headphones would just let me hear the hisss better. My headphones are plugged into my minidisc headphone-out socket. If I record (either digitally or via analogue line-in) into my sharp831 I get a chance to preview the music as it goes into the MD recorder ... and it sounds NOTICEABLY different on record preview to how it sounds when I playback what I've just recorded - on the same MD unit - using the same headphones. So the actual headphones used are irrelevant here. Ideas or knowledge, anyone? (Should I maybe consider taking it back to the shop I bought it at? I've listened to a MD recorded on some Aiwa cheapy portable MD unit and it still sounds better than my twice-the-price Sharp portable.) Hey, are maybe Sharp portables not very good? And does the Aiwa portable use (as I suspect it probably does) the same ATRAC chipset as developed+used by Sony for the Sony portables? dave I find that my Sharp-831 does not offer particularly good compression. I can clearly HEAR the artifacts, especially if the music contains a quiet passage that contains a proportionately large amount of background hiss, and on cymbals, hihats, etc. Just remember, it could also be due to the ADCs. Decks often have much better ADCs than portables. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] === MIME part removed : text/html; === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
Sometime fairly recently, Simon Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now we have a new subject to argue about, both Ralph and Rat have suggested that poor headphones can cause hiss. Simon, this is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time. Thanks for the wit Dale - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
Chris Eddington wrote: I have experienced this noise exactly as you have, when trying to record digitally from my laptop. Chris (and maybe others) how are you recording(digitally) from your laptop to md? i have a laptop running windows95 but currently the only way i can record is from the headphone output, which is terrible. i can hear the hard disk spinning etc. also, a few weeks ago someone posted about the sharp ATRAC being better than sony's for recording rock/contemporary music, ie cymbals etc sounded crisper. has anyone got any more comments on this? i know that the sharp ATRAC has problems with the french horn...but is it better for other types of music than sony's? luke Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
=== = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === I find that my Sharp-831 does not offer particularly good compression. I can clearly HEAR the artifacts, especially if the music contains a quiet passage that contains a proportionately large amount of background hiss, and on cymbals, hihats, etc. Is this a feature of the Sharp ATRAC scheme or is it a limitation of portables in general? I ask this because I've borrowed some MDs of the SAME music recorded on a Sony deck (not portable) and the difference is quite astonishing. Just remember, it could also be due to the ADCs. Decks often have much better ADCs than portables. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Compression on Sharp-831
* "Dave Hooper" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 03 May 2000 | I find that my Sharp-831 does not offer particularly good compression. I can | clearly HEAR the artifacts, especially if the music contains a quiet passage | that contains a proportionately large amount of background hiss, and on | cymbals, hihats, etc. First thing you should do is get a better set of headphones and see if that makes a difference. If you are hearing any hiss at all, that is probably the reason. -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete. Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
