Re: [MBZ] Cokes

[Rich Thomas]

Some stores here in Occupied Aztlan sell the meskin cokiecola, daughter 
unit buys a bottle occasionally to get "The Real Thing"  (who remembers 
that?)

--R

Redghost wrote:
> A case of cane sugar coke here in Seattle is $25.00.  It is in the  
> tall bottles and tastes like heaven.  Not even the junk in small  
> glass bottles you get in the touristy south taste half as good though  
> it too cost $1/bottle.
>
> clay
>   
>

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Re: [MBZ] Yeager et al

[Rich Thomas]

"The Right Stuff" was on some HD channel last night, that was one of the 
elements of the movie.

--R

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> <> legend
>> out at Edwards.  See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Barnes>>
>>
>> 
> I am aware.
>
> RLE
>
>
>   
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Re: [MBZ] OT - driving Houston

[Rich Thomas]

Avoid the east side.  Avoid it like the plague.  Nothing there worth 
seeing.  Nothing there worth risking your life and possessions for.

Not sure what the issue was on 45 today, although there are always 
trucks turning over and dumping loads at rush hour.  Sunday AM 
everything should be copacetic.

--R

OK Don wrote:
> It took 2 hours to drive I-45 through Houston to Webster this eveing.
> Would taking the East beltway be easier/faster, even though it's 9
> more miles? Anything on the East side worth driving through to see
> when we leave Sunday AM?
>
>   

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Re: [MBZ] Smart crash test

[RELNGSON]

>  and they are faster than a Farrari 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV1zQMcSsk0
> Perhaps it's time to trade the C class in :-)>>
> 
No, not "those ones," which are just stunts with no scientific value.

I suggest you look at the Euro-NCAP offset crash tests published in the 
December 19 edition of Auto Motor und Sport in which the Mercedes W204, Renault 
Laguna, Chrysler Voyager, Fiat 500. Peugeot 308, Honda Civic hybrid, VW Tiguan, 
Peugeot 207 CC, VW Eos and Smart FORTWO try to move the barrier with their 
noses. The worst-in-test Chrysler Voyager's instrumented front seat 
"passengers" 
do badly. the Smart better with upper leg injuries in both seats and the 
Mercedes not quite as good as the Renault.

RLE


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[MBZ] OT - driving Houston

[OK Don]

It took 2 hours to drive I-45 through Houston to Webster this eveing.
Would taking the East beltway be easier/faster, even though it's 9
more miles? Anything on the East side worth driving through to see
when we leave Sunday AM?

-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
-Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

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Re: [MBZ] OU stinking up the tostitos again!

[OK Don]

Exactly!  Plus, they discontinued the fencing team!  How fair is that?
( I was on the team in the early '70's - it's not there for my son to
try out for).

On Jan 4, 2008 10:23 PM, tom savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mitch Haley wrote:
>
> > Who cares, it's only taxpayer's money, right?
>
> A university needs a football team like a fish needs a bicycle.
>
> Tom

-- 
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Norman, OK
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
-Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
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Re: [MBZ] Aviation Legends/Bob Hoover

[OK Don]

Both are covered well in Hover's biography - it's a great read.

On Jan 4, 2008 8:45 PM, Scott Ritchey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In case you didn't get Yeager's reference to Pancho Barnes, she was a legend
> out at Edwards.  See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Barnes
>
>
-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
-Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

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Re: [MBZ] Yeager et al

[RELNGSON]

> < legend
> out at Edwards.  See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Barnes>>
> 
I am aware.

RLE





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Re: [MBZ] Supposed Tips on Fueling Up

[OK Don]

OK - someone needs to look up the coifficient of expansion for Diesel
and gasoline - how much does the volume change per degree? My CRC is
at home (I'm in Houston), and I'm too tired to search the web for it.

On Jan 4, 2008 5:46 PM, Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Water expands when it FREEZES, not when it's just cold -- it contracts
> just like everything else up to the freezing point, whereupon it
> becomes much more ordered, and the crystalline lattice takes up more
> space than uncrystallized water.
>
> Diesel fuel and gasoline shrink when cold, and the pumps are NOT
> compensated for temperature (you get a better deal on fuel in the
> winter, worse in summer as the fuel gallonage is calculated at 60F).
> Cooler fuel will be denser, so you get more at a lower temperature.
>
> The mythbuster part of this story is that the temperature in the
> storage tank changes slowly unless hot or cold fuel is dumped in.  A
> tanker load of icy fuel will lower the temp and give you more fuel per
> "gallon" if you fill up shortly after the tanks are filled, but a hot
> tanker will have the opposite effect.  Without this effect, above
> ground temps have very little effect on the fuel as delivered.
>
> What you should watch is that cool fuel on a very hot day is gonna
> expand quite a bit as it equilbrates with the outside temp, so if you
> top off that tank to the very top and then park in a sunny spot on a
> roasting hot day, you will push fuel right through the charcoal
> canister onto the ground.  Wastefull -- don't top the tank off.
>
> Conversely, on a bittler cold winter night, you will fill the tank up
> and then the fuel gauge will drop off the full mark as the fuel cools
> off.
>
> On 60x engines, there is a fuel heater that operates off the heater
> hose when the air is cold, and you can also spill some fuel if you
> overfill the tank in cold weather.  The action of the heater shows up
> as less fuel consumption than you expect while driving, and a
> noticeablle drop in fuel level next time you start the car and it's
> cold again.
>
> Peter

-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
-Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

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Re: [MBZ] OU stinking up the tostitos again!

[tom savage]

Mitch Haley wrote:

> Who cares, it's only taxpayer's money, right?

A university needs a football team like a fish needs a bicycle.

Tom

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Re: [MBZ] Healthy living? was Re: Coffee is hot

[OK Don]

Yup - similar story here. One relative smoked and was an alcholic most
of her life - didnt' stop until she had to go into a nursng home in
the 70's. She died at 83 from pneumonia. On the other hand, I've
watched four friends die from lung cancer, all were heave smokers, and
it's not a pretty sight. One of my BILs died 10 days ago at 60 - heart
attack, attributed to alcohol, cigaretes, and heredity.


On Jan 4, 2008 3:21 PM, Donald Snook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Andrew wrote:
>
>
>
> "Yes, and there are some (probably a handful of) lifetime smokers who
> never get cancer or heart disease, are incredibly healthy, and if they
> do die it's in their sleep on account of old age rather than disease."
>
>
>
> My grandfather was a little like that.  He smoked 6 packs of pall mall
> non-filters for 35 years.  Yes, that is correct - 6 packs.  My father
> said he smoked in the shower.  He would get up in the middle of night
> twice and smoke 2-3 cigarettes each time.  He woke up one morning and
> coughed up some blood, so he quit smoking.  Cold Turkey, just like that.
> He did everything BIG.  He was 6'6" 325 lbs.  He had 12 children.  He
> wasn't an especially friendly man. But, he served in WWII, Korea and
> Vietnam (in the early days of that particular conflict).  He was a beast
> of a man.  Did not believe in doctors even though he was a Full Bird
> Colonel in the Medical Corps and spent his military career commanding
> hospitals.  He attributed good health to vitamins. LOTS AND LOTS of
> vitamins and to being a good catholic.
>
>
>
> He only lived to 80 which is not all that old in terms of average life
> expectancy, but for someone his size who smoked that much and raised
> that many kids, I think it is practically a miracle.
>
>
>
> Donald H. Snook
>
>
>
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-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
-Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

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Re: [MBZ] OU stinking up the tostitos again!

[OK Don]

OU claims that it makes a profit on the athletic programs, but I
haven't looked at the figures. My sig. line alppies here for sure!

On Jan 4, 2008 11:15 AM, andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I suppose you could do a cost benefit analysis that shows what a good return
> on investment $1 MM is for a coach's salary in terms of revenues generated
> for the school.
>
>

-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
-Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

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Re: [MBZ] National Health Insurance: was: Coffee is Hot

[archer]

- Original Message - 
From: "John Robbins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> archer wrote:
>> In your opinion, perhaps.  In my opinion it's never too late to discuss 
>> and
>> offer solutions for major problems that face America.
>
> Its also a very political topic... something best reserved for banned.
> Join up and I'm sure everyone will start talking about it again. :)
> John
..
Just joined.
Thanks, John.
Gerry 


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Re: [MBZ] not so Smart

[Hendrik & Fay]

These ones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s
and they are faster than a Farrari 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV1zQMcSsk0
Perhaps it's time to trade the C class in :-)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> <>
>>
>> 
> I know you have not seen the crash tests on the Snart.
>
> RLE
>   

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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Kevin]

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH

On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 10:28:41PM -0500, dave walton wrote:
> I tried banned for a bit but got tired of pudgy white guys using the
> "n"-word for punctuation. I have better things to waste my time on...

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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[dave walton]

I tried banned for a bit but got tired of pudgy white guys using the
"n"-word for punctuation. I have better things to waste my time on...

-Dave Walton

On Jan 4, 2008 10:21 PM, Redghost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Oh, this is so much tamer than the discussion we had on the topic
> over on banned.
>
> Yawn
>
> clay
>
>
> On 4 Jan 2008, at 11:14, Mitch Haley wrote:
>
> > dave walton wrote:
> >> Uninsured people that show up at the ER
> >> hopefully get at least some treatment but pay little or nothing for
> >> it.
> >
> > Speak for yourself. As an uninsured person, I pay $1000 for an ER
> > visit
> > that an insurance company might have allowed them $300 for. Best I can
> > do is negotiate a 10% cash discount at my local hospital. Then I only
> > pay $900 for a $300 visit.
> >
> > Mitch.
> >
> > ___
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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Redghost]

Oh, this is so much tamer than the discussion we had on the topic  
over on banned.

Yawn

clay

On 4 Jan 2008, at 11:14, Mitch Haley wrote:

> dave walton wrote:
>> Uninsured people that show up at the ER
>> hopefully get at least some treatment but pay little or nothing for
>> it.
>
> Speak for yourself. As an uninsured person, I pay $1000 for an ER  
> visit
> that an insurance company might have allowed them $300 for. Best I can
> do is negotiate a 10% cash discount at my local hospital. Then I only
> pay $900 for a $300 visit.
>
> Mitch.
>
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Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Discussion List: coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[Redghost]

A case of cane sugar coke here in Seattle is $25.00.  It is in the  
tall bottles and tastes like heaven.  Not even the junk in small  
glass bottles you get in the touristy south taste half as good though  
it too cost $1/bottle.

clay


On 4 Jan 2008, at 10:47, Sunny Letot wrote:

> Hey, guys, has anyone noticed how long ago the McDonald's lawsuit  
> took place?
>
>   It was over and done with in August of 1994! McDonald's made  
> whatever changes they felt necessary in their coffee temps within  
> no more than 12 months (at that time, they updated their protocols  
> and master handbooks twice a year). IF they changed them at all --  
> they weren't legally obligated to do so.
>
>   Does anyone remember what McDonald's coffee tasted like pre-1994  
> and post-1995? Did you get a cup of coffee back around Thanksgiving  
> of 1995 and think, "What the heck? Why's my coffee cold??"
>
>   It's business, and it's all about the money. McDonald's, like  
> anyone else, in in business to make money. If they can reduce costs  
> without losing customers, they'll do it -- that's their job, and  
> what their shareholders expect of them.
>
>   If you want a real milkshake, go to to an ice cream shop like  
> Braum's or Ashburn's -- the general fast food industry has been  
> using mellorine (think DQ) for decades.
>
>   Go to the grocery store and price dairy products -- butter,  
> cream, and milk are FAR more expensive that margarine and non-dairy  
> coffee creamer. Same deal with real ice cream v. the fake stuff,  
> until you get into the special diet stuff, i.e. Atkins, Sount  
> Beach, etc. Also, milk products have a limited shelf life, which  
> means you've got to throw it away if you don't use it all before  
> the due date. That non-dairy stuff has a longer life than a 617  
> diesel, so you can buy 6 months supply at once!  That's a better  
> deal -- less spoilage loss, less base cost, and a discount for bulk  
> purchase.
>
>   Oh, and the french fries? No one "made" McDonald's give up the  
> beef tallow. (And yes, the fries were crisper and tastier fried in  
> 93% tallow and 7% cottonseed oil!) The reason they used the tallow  
> mixture is that it had an indefinite shelf life, and was, back in  
> the day, much cheaper than any other fat they could use for frying.  
> However, when they began to expand into other countries and run  
> into Hindu objections regarding beef consumption (don't ask me why  
> a hamburger joint would try to market to Hindus -- that one's  
> beyond me!), along with the Surgeon General's long-standing warning  
> about saturated fat, they changed to vegetable oil. There are no  
> trans fats in their fries -- trans fats are a product of  
> hydrogenation (to make the oil solid at room temp), and McDonald's  
> uses liquid shortening in their fryers and has since they stopped  
> using tallow -- it's easier and faster, i.e. saves time and money.
>
>   Does anyone remember how bottled Coke tasted 30 years ago? No??  
> It was different -- cane sugar costs more to produce than corn  
> syrup (which was, for many years, just a waste by-product of corn  
> processing), and Coca Cola saw the cost benefits. They cut their  
> costs, while leaving our cost the same and steadily escalating it  
> -- a better profit margin for their stockholders. You can taste the  
> original Coke in Mexico -- labor being cheaper there, and the diet  
> being far moe dependent on whole corn than ours, they still use  
> cane sugar in Coca Cola. There are a number of stores serving the  
> Hispanic community in the U.S. that import "real" Coke.
>
>   And there's one plant in Dublin, Texas that still produces Dr  
> Pepper with cane sugar instead of corn syrup, and gets a premium  
> price for it.
>
>   Like I said, it's just business, and it's all about the money.  
> Most corporations are amoral -- they go where the profits lead  
> them. Those of us on this list enjoy the products of a corporation  
> (Daimler Benz) that was able to produce a quality product at a  
> profit, and continues to support what it produced. It's a niche  
> market, and one I'm glad to be part of.
>
>   We're also lucky to have access to folks like Rusty and others,  
> who are NOT corporations, and while they need to make a profit,  
> they make it by providing excellent products and great customer  
> service. Don't look to an international corporation for that kind  
> of service!
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Furnace ignition problems

[Allan Streib]

The one variable that I can see is the combustion air temperature.   
It's fan-forced with the intake being a 3" PVC pipe running directly  
out the side of the house, so it is essentially outdoor ambient  
temperature air.

The furnace itself is indoors, in the basement.  Temps are fairly  
constant there.  The gas is utility fed, the meter and regulator are  
outdoors I suppose that could be part of it too, though when the  
furnace does light the flame appears normal.  No other gas appliances  
(water heater and range) are exhibiting any problems.

It is a glow type ignitor, some kind of ceramic-looking element that  
glows yellow-white when energized.  Seems to be working, but I'm  
about to go check the resistance to see if it varies from what the  
manual says it should read.

Allan


On Jan 4, 2008, at 10:08 PM, Jim Cathey wrote:

>> Now that it's warmed up a bit my furnace problems have gone away.
>
> Electronics are usually more temperature-sensitive than
> other stuff.
>
> If this is a spark ignitor, whatever makes the spark could
> be unhappy with the cold.  For example, the switch-mode
> power supply that runs my Frankenheap's preheater fan doesn't
> like to start when it gets really cold outside.  That's irritating,
> that's just when you want it to work the most.
>
> Gas solenoid could stick when it shrinks with cold.  If it's
> a hot-wire ignitor the additional heat loss due to colder air
> may prevent ignition temperature from being reached.
>
> A bit of water in the fuel supply could cut off, or choke
> down, the fuel feed when it froze.
>
> So many possibilities!
>
> -- Jim
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] (NE) Customer Complaint - Store 3212

[Redghost]

I understand the CEO makes no more than 7x what the lowest paid  
worker gets.

clay


On 4 Jan 2008, at 09:10, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> I went to a Costco while in Atlanta over Xmas.  That is one FINE  
> store, and
> I hear they even pay their employees generously, unlike some other big
> boxers.
>
>
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 1:11 AM, Redghost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Wallyworld has to pay at least $8.07 here in Washington.  Looks like
>> there are enough bottom feeders to allow them to do that
>>
>> clay
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3 Jan 2008, at 09:11, John Robbins wrote:
>>
>>> Kaleb C. Striplin, work wrote:
 Well back then it probably wasnt a whole lot more than min wage,
 but we did
 have benefits.  From what I understand they dont offer ins to
 employees
 anymore.
>>>
>>> My brother is offered insurance at Wal-mart.  He does make more than
>>> minimum wage... not terribly much though.  He's received three  
>>> raises
>>> since he's been there (less than a year).
>>>
>>> Wal-mart will pay based on what they can get away with... Since
>>> Starkville is a college town they can get away with low wages.
>>> Greg has
>>> a friend on the MS coast that has the same job and makes $4 an hour
>>> more.  Entirely different labor market.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
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Re: [MBZ] ACC acting up again ('84 300DT)

[Jim Cathey]

> I replaced the foam tube some years ago, so the problem must be 
> elsewhere.

Unlike herpes, foam is not forever, especially if it's NOS.
I'd at least check it, it's easy enough to reach behind the
glovebox.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Furnace ignition problems

[Jim Cathey]

> Now that it's warmed up a bit my furnace problems have gone away.

Electronics are usually more temperature-sensitive than
other stuff.

If this is a spark ignitor, whatever makes the spark could
be unhappy with the cold.  For example, the switch-mode
power supply that runs my Frankenheap's preheater fan doesn't
like to start when it gets really cold outside.  That's irritating,
that's just when you want it to work the most.

Gas solenoid could stick when it shrinks with cold.  If it's
a hot-wire ignitor the additional heat loss due to colder air
may prevent ignition temperature from being reached.

A bit of water in the fuel supply could cut off, or choke
down, the fuel feed when it froze.

So many possibilities!

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] National Health Insurance: was: Coffee is Hot

[John Robbins]

archer wrote:
> In your opinion, perhaps.  In my opinion it's never too late to discuss and 
> offer solutions for major problems that face America. 

Its also a very political topic... something best reserved for banned. 
Join up and I'm sure everyone will start talking about it again. :)

John

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Re: [MBZ] Aviation Legends/Bob Hoover

[Scott Ritchey]

In case you didn't get Yeager's reference to Pancho Barnes, she was a legend
out at Edwards.  See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Barnes


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 22:00
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] Aviation Legends/Bob Hoover

http://www.airportjournals.com/legends/index.cfm?cr=IssueBanner&kw=Flash

Watch the 2nd video when Chuck Yeager talks about the bear hunting trip with

Hoover.








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Re: [MBZ] National Health Insurance: was: Coffee is Hot

[archer]

From: "John Robbins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> You're two days to late for this discussion on banned.

Gerry wrote:
In your opinion, perhaps.  In my opinion it's never too late to discuss and 
offer solutions for major problems that face America. 


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Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Discussion List: coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[Kevin Kraly]

Thanks, John, for the Coke bottle label info.  I'll make sure to smuggle 
some back next year when we go to the Victoria race.  Our team didn't vote 
for it this year (sad, very sad), but plenty of teams need paddlers for that 
race.  We've gone in 3-5 paddlers short two years in a row since enthusiasm 
seems to wane near the end of summer.  I guess those of us who don't find a 
team will miss out on the Canadian Coca-Cola and, oops, almost forgot, the 
racing too!  Hopefully, we'll have some time to meet since you live close to 
the Inner Harbour...

Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
1983 300SD 266Kmi, Ursula 


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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[archer]

From: "Gary Hurst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>i don't need any bypass surgery.  that is for people who eat margarine.  i 
>eat pure and healthy animal fats in large quantities, so no need for any 
>bypass.
...
Gerry wrote:
Surprisingly, Gary may be right.  It depends on how many cholesterol 
receptors he has on the cells that comprise his body.  It would be very 
simple for Gary to find out;  get a fasting cholesterol panel test.  (Not 
cheap, by the way.)

Many, many generations ago people who lived along the coast ate fish which 
have "good" fat and usually not much of it.  People who lived inland ate 
animals and drank their milk; consuming large quantities of "bad" fat. 
Gradually, as the inland people with few cholesterol receptors died off, an 
inland generation was formed that had many cholesterol receptors.
As civilization, travel, and commerce grew; coast dwellers began eating 
animal fat, got clogged arteries, and died.  You know the rest of the story.

Gerry 


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Re: [MBZ] National Health Insurance: was: Coffee is Hot

[John Robbins]

You're two days to late for this discussion on banned.

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[MBZ] National Health Insurance: was: Coffee is Hot

[archer]

>> "dave walton" writes:
>> > Face it people. The Walmarts of the world are now pushing for a
>> > national health plan because it will save them money. It's only a
>> > matter of time. Hopefully the focus will eventually switch from
>> > treatment to prevention.snip

Gerry writes:
Healthcare is a major U.S. problem.  Following is a plan by an insurance 
professional  which is quite different that most of the plans you read 
about.  What do you think about it?
-

Mr. Hale is an insurance and reinsurance professional with 25 years
experience.  He began his career with Aetna Life and Casualty in Seattle 
Washington in 1982 working on large accounts such Alaska Public Employees 
and Boeing Airplane Company.  While employed by Aetna, he received 
certifications A, B and C from the Health Insurance Association of America.
 From 1984 to 1997 Mr. Hale was a broker for U.S. professional liability 
reinsurance coverage for doctors and hospitals. From 1997 to 2000 he was 
Senior Financial Analyst for the Washington business unit of PacfiiCare, 
America's fifth largest HMO.   In 2002 Mr. Hale moved to Zurich Switzerland 
to underwrite U.S. medical professional liability reinsurance for Converium, 
one of the ten largest reinsurers in the world.
=
"America needs reform of the health insurance system.   Of this there is no 
doubt.  Americans spend more capita than any western nation on health care, 
and yet we are the only western nation with uninsured citizens.  A lot of 
them (over 40 milliion uninsured).

What America does NOT need is "socialized medicine" like the United Kingdom. 
But what we do need is "socialized insurance".

We all agreed decades ago that we want to purchase basic needs on a 
socialized basis.  For example, municipal water supplies.  None of us wants 
to have a situation where four competing water companies are tearing up the 
street in front of our house to lay four sets of parallel pipes.  Having a 
parallel delivery system adds cost.  Four sets of pipes, four meter readers 
on every street, etc.

Should we do away with private enterprise in our medical provider system? 
No.  As I said, socialized medicine as in the United Kingdom is not a good 
model in my opinion.  Our mix of public, private and charitable hospitals 
provide excellent medical care.  And a phyisican decision of whether to run 
his own practice, or join a clinic, or work for a hospital (public, private 
or charitable) should be the decision of that physician.

What about the insurance segment then? Should that be socialized or 
nationalized?  In my opinion, neither is a good option.  Free enterprise and 
competion among insurers is a good thing.

But we should recognize that large purchasing groups get better deals.  The 
employees of Boeing and Microsoft get a better deal on their monthly heatlh 
insurance premium than the employees of a small business.

There are several reasons for this.  For one thing, it is easier to
administer one health plan with for a company like Boeing with 100,000 
employees than it is to adminisiter 1000 separate plans for small business 
with 100 employees each.

With large employer groups, individual medical exams for the purpose of 
identifying potential employees with chronic diseases are rarely given. 
Actuarily, these large groups are self-supporting.  With small groups, all 
it takes is one hemophiliac, or dialysis, or cancer patient to make the 
employer group unprofitable.   Individual medical exams for insurer approval 
should not be required ever.  We all know that every American has to see the 
doctor sometime, and we should have a national policy to require that every 
American is covered with an absolute minimum of bureaucracy.

How do we do this?

By forming the largest possible purchasing groups, larger than Boeing, or 
General Motors, or Microsoft.  We simply purchase our coverage together, on 
a state by state basis.

The insurance commissioner of each state can invite every licensed Accident 
and Health Insurer to submit a bid to cover every person in that state. 
Every three years, the contract is re-bid.

ADMINISTRATIVE SAVINGS
With one plan per state, there is no need to mail out insurance policies. 
It will be published on the internet.  Every individual, every doctor, every 
hospital can read it there.

No more insurance ID cards.   A valid state drivers license is proof of
insurance.  For those who don't drive, every state already offers a state 
identification card that looks almost like the standard drivers license.

No more customer service call centers.  Something like 30% of America's 
health insurance expenditures goes to administrative overhead.  The 
insurance policies and ID cards are a small part of that 30%.  Most of the 
30% pays the salaries of customer service representative at hospitals and 
doctors' offices who chatting with customer service represetatives at the 
various insurers.

Re: [MBZ] Only ONE Complaint

[Rich Thomas]

Buy a Mossberg 12g pump, shorty handle, they're not too much $$.  
Pretend no one is home.  Perps come in, rack that sucker, watch them 
run.  Nothing has quite that sound.  You won't even have to use it as 
intended.

--R


R A Bennell wrote:
> No, unfortunately, they just wait a bit until you buy the replacements and 
> break in again to steal the new stuff. I
> know someone who had that happen. The burglers even went through the filing 
> cabinet and took the instruction
> manuals and warranty papers etc.
>
> Randy
>
>   
>

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Re: [MBZ] Are 240TD parts suitable for 300TDs?

[Mitch Haley]

I believe all S123 doors and windows interchange. Less sure which
parts could be sold to a W123 sedan owner.
I also believe the suspension parts, with the possible exception of
the springs, should match. If the SLS works, that would be worth
a lot more than the scrap value of a 1700kg car if you ever need
the pump or a strut. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] not so Smart

[RELNGSON]

> <>
> 
I know you have not seen the crash tests on the Snart.

RLE
> 
> 




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Re: [MBZ] OMG it's a message that is related to cars!!!!!!!

[Hendrik & Fay]

A couple of tips, the slide calculator can be made bigger, I found that 
inserting the pictures into MS office allows me to adjust the height of 
both parts to 21.8cm, which is 23% bigger and makes it easier to read.
Well actually I made the first part 21.8 high and had to adjust the 
slide part to fit but it can be made bigger or smaller, as long as both 
parts are the same height and the aspect ratio is locked.
Remember as the pictures are on their side the height will end up as the 
width of the finished slide calculator. Do not be tempted to turn the 
pictures because A4 is higher than wider.
I used photo paper to build this and it gives it a nice strong feel to 
it. Have fun and don't cut yourself :-)

Hendrik & Fay wrote:
> Here is a little project for the kids
> http://home.iprimus.com.au/daveju/Tips/FuelCalculator.htm
> I am in the process of building one but found that I printed the slide 
> part too big :-(
>
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[MBZ] OMG it's a message that is related to cars!!!!!!!

[Hendrik & Fay]

Here is a little project for the kids
http://home.iprimus.com.au/daveju/Tips/FuelCalculator.htm
I am in the process of building one but found that I printed the slide 
part too big :-(

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Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Discussion List: coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[John M McIntosh]

let's see, well being from victoria bc

mmm Coke bottle says...
carbonated water, sugar/ glucose-fructose, carmel

Nope no mention of CORN. Mind we don't have a corn lobby that ensures  
the government pays for the entire cost of making the corn,
thus making sugar from corn *free* for large corporations, well maybe  
not, but I won't be surprised.

On Jan 4, 2008, at 2:02 PM, Kevin Kraly wrote:

> While I was in Canada participating in the Victoria B.C. Dragon Boat
> Festival, I noticed quite a difference in their coke compared to  
> ours here
> in the states.  It tasted so much better and more like the coke of  
> old.  I
> never thought that there was a change in the taste of coke over the  
> years
> until then.  For that matter, the Canadian Sprite is also much  
> better too,
> eh?


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[MBZ] Are 240TD parts suitable for 300TDs?

[Euan]

Happy New Year from the Colonies

While holidaying over New Year, I discovered a weary-looking 1981 240TD 
4-spd manual parked off the drive in a neighbouring property. After 
running its owner to ground, I learned that he was about to send it to 
the crusher. It's done only 400K mi but has not been well maintained. 
Blows a bit of smoke and the paintwork is pretty dire (as well as being 
faded, it's a hideous canary yellow). No rust as far as I could see.

Given that W123 wagons are relatively rare in New Zealand, it grieves me 
to see anything with salvageable parts go to the crusher. So I made 
encouraging noises to the owner about buying it from him, for parts.

Question is though, are body panels, lights, seats, windows, doors, 
exhaust system etc (i.e., anything other than engine and drive-train) 
interchangeable with my 1985 300TD?

Given that SWMBO will not look fondly upon any such acquisition, 
hell-bent as she is to dispose of the 300TD, I'd have to be sure that my 
arguments were sound

Thanks for your advice

Euan

CHCH
NZ

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Re: [MBZ] Supposed Tips on Fueling Up

[Peter Frederick]

Water expands when it FREEZES, not when it's just cold -- it contracts 
just like everything else up to the freezing point, whereupon it 
becomes much more ordered, and the crystalline lattice takes up more 
space than uncrystallized water.

Diesel fuel and gasoline shrink when cold, and the pumps are NOT 
compensated for temperature (you get a better deal on fuel in the 
winter, worse in summer as the fuel gallonage is calculated at 60F).  
Cooler fuel will be denser, so you get more at a lower temperature.

The mythbuster part of this story is that the temperature in the 
storage tank changes slowly unless hot or cold fuel is dumped in.  A 
tanker load of icy fuel will lower the temp and give you more fuel per 
"gallon" if you fill up shortly after the tanks are filled, but a hot 
tanker will have the opposite effect.  Without this effect, above 
ground temps have very little effect on the fuel as delivered.

What you should watch is that cool fuel on a very hot day is gonna 
expand quite a bit as it equilbrates with the outside temp, so if you 
top off that tank to the very top and then park in a sunny spot on a 
roasting hot day, you will push fuel right through the charcoal 
canister onto the ground.  Wastefull -- don't top the tank off.

Conversely, on a bittler cold winter night, you will fill the tank up 
and then the fuel gauge will drop off the full mark as the fuel cools 
off.

On 60x engines, there is a fuel heater that operates off the heater 
hose when the air is cold, and you can also spill some fuel if you 
overfill the tank in cold weather.  The action of the heater shows up 
as less fuel consumption than you expect while driving, and a 
noticeablle drop in fuel level next time you start the car and it's 
cold again.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Supposed Tips on Fueling Up

[LarryT]

It was written <> ground temperature is still cold>>

And Allan asked <>


Let's talk about this --- 

Water expands when cold - perhaps the only material to do so. I'm don't 
know - I'm asking.

If gasoline and diesel, both being liquids expand like water, the cold tanks 
(and what they contain I assume) would also expand) - so if buying expanded 
diesel in the cold morning, what happens when it warms and (presumable) 
contracts.  You end up with less than you paid for.

If, OTOH, the gas/diesel contracts when cold, the above comment would make 
sense - assuming the metering equipment in the pump is similarily affected.

I believe you are correct about the depth needed to get to stable temps.

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
.

- Original Message - 
From: "Allan Streib" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Supposed Tips on Fueling Up


> "Zoltan Finks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> *Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the
>> ground temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations
>> have their storage tanks buried below ground.
>
> How deep are they?  You don't have to get very deep before the
> underground temperature is pretty constant.  Maybe 4 or 5 feet?
>
> Allan
> -- 
> 1983 300D
> 1966 230
>
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> 12:05 PM
>
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Peter Frederick]

One neglected source of lung cancer is the rather large amounts of 
plutonium that have burned up in the earth's atmosphere from 
thermo-electric satellite power plants.  The USSR was the chief 
offender, but the US and Britain (to my certain knowledge) have had a 
few fall too.  We are talking several hundred pounds of plutonium metal 
in total -- it burns to make a nicely breathable oxide powder.  These 
particles enter deep into the lungs, and then promptly kill off the 
cilia that would normally expel them back up the bronchia.  That 
several hundred (up to a thousand pounds, IIRC) is more than enough to 
kill every single person on the planet if evenly distributed.  Healthy 
living won't help much.

I suspect this, along with whatever leaked out from underground testing 
in the 50's in Nevada, account for a lot of the non-smoker's lung 
cancer.  I believe the cancers are similar.

Lots of nasties lurking about that have been broadly deposited since 
WWII, including the tidal wave of floating plastic trash in the 
Pacific.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] OT HDTV

[LarryT]

You wrote:<>

Hmmm.. I wonder if they'll try to sue people who record music from the 
radio?  That was a huge way of making cassettes a while back.  I guess some 
things are just too big to stop.  Plus the technology was different I guess


Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
.

- Original Message - 
From: "John Robbins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT HDTV


> LarryT wrote:
>> Hopefully he can burn them to DVDs?  I missed an episode of NCIS IIRC and 
>> it
>> was posted on the net within a week of the original airing on their 
>> official
>> website - burned it to a DVD and Viola!  Presto Chango - Elvis is Back! 
>> ;-)
>
> Unfortunately, DRM (digital rights management) won't let him burn it to
> a DVD.  Almost everyone (except the media producers and their lobbyists)
> think that being able to make a copy for personal use (ie, backup or for
> viewing on your TV) is a fair use of the purchased material, and isn't
> copyright infringement.  The DRM from iTunes only lets him watch the
> video in iTunes, his iPod, or (if we had one) the apple TV thing.
>
> On an unrelated note, the RIAA is now suing people for making MP3s off
> of the music CD they have legally purchased.
>
> John
>
>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1209 - Release Date: 1/4/2008 
> 12:05 PM
>
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[LarryT]

My 64 year old brother passed away earlier this year from esophageal 
cancer - not a pleasant thing.
Not that anything is - but some are more peaceful than others.

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
.

- Original Message - 
From: "LWB250" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot


> My paternal grandfather smoked two packs of Marlboros
> a day along with consuming at least 2-3 shots of
> Canadian Club.  While infirm in his last few years, he
> lived to 98.
>
> My Dad died at 54, almost 25 years ago, the victim of
> esophageal cancer.  He was a pipe smoker.  Go figure.
> The 5 year survival rate for esophageal cancer is
> still pretty lousy today, too.
>
> Dan (non-smoker)
>
>
>
> --- andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Yes, and there are some (probably a handful of)
>> lifetime smokers who never
>> get cancer or heart disease, are incredibly healthy,
>> and if they do die it's
>> in their sleep on account of old age rather than
>> disease.  Chalk it up to
>> genetics, like those athletes who when praised demur
>> by attributing their
>> prowess to "God-given talent".  What they really
>> mean is that they were
>> blessed with awesome genes.
>
>
>
> 
> 
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
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> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1209 - Release Date: 1/4/2008 
> 12:05 PM
>
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[LarryT]

And, unfortunately the reverse is also true - people who eat healthy, never 
smoke, exercize regularily, yada, yada - and get *lung* cancer and die 
quickly!

As you said, the genes  - my Mom lived to 94 ;-) and my dad til 76 so 
hopefully I got more of my Moms genes for long life.

BTW, what cntrols which parent passes down the genes?  I'm sure it has 
something to do with dominant and regressive genes but not sure how it 
works.

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
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.

- Original Message - 
From: "andrew strasfogel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot


> Yes, and there are some (probably a handful of) lifetime smokers who never
> get cancer or heart disease, are incredibly healthy, and if they do die 
> it's
> in their sleep on account of old age rather than disease.  Chalk it up to
> genetics, like those athletes who when praised demur by attributing their
> prowess to "God-given talent".  What they really mean is that they were
> blessed with awesome genes.
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 3:20 PM, Curt Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Remember Jim Fixx died of a heart attack
>>
>> ;)
>>
>> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:08:16 -0600
>> From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot
>> To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
>> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> Your logic can be applied to just about any lifestyle. For example, do
>>  you
>> ride a bicycle or run? If so then why should my insurance pay for your
>> hospital stay just because you decided to participate in this high risk
>> activity and you were hit by a car? After all, it's your decision to go
>>  out
>> & ride or run on public streets, correct?
>>
>> My real point is that insurance works because the associated risk &
>>  cost are
>> spread across all policy holders. In other words, those receive bypass
>> surgery & chemotherapy get the same treatment as someone who's run over
>>  by a
>> car & the cost is shared by all.
>>
>> Go to a health insurance program that sets rates by lifestyle analysis
>>  &
>> family history and you might find yourself in an expensive, high risk
>>  group
>> for no other reason than a few distant relatives died from of heart
>>  disease
>> or cancer! How fair would this scenario be to you?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom Hargrave
>> www.kegkits.com
>> 256-656-1924
>>
>>
>> -
>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try 
>> it
>> now.
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> 12:05 PM
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Re: [MBZ] OT heirloom seeds

[Sunny Letot]

Dave -- 
   
  You're right. Agribusiness really wants to get rid of open-polinated (OP) 
seeds. That way, everyone will have to buy seeds every year, instead of saving 
some from this year's crop to plant next year, like our grandparents (or 
perhaps great-grandparents!) did. To that end, Delta Pine & Land Company, in 
cooperation with the USDA, developed the terminator gene, which renders crops 
grown from their terminator-altered seed sterile.  
http://filebox.vt.edu/cals/cses/chagedor/terminator.html Many lawsuits are 
pending related to the out-crossing of genetically-modified (GM) crops with 
open-polinated (OP) crops -- the seed companies maintain that the end result 
belongs to them, because their patented DNA is contained in the resulting 
seeds. These are be interesting to watch for a number of reasons. First, the 
U.S. has legislation in place that's stood for nearly 100 years prohibiting the 
patenting of seeds, but we're allowing DNA to be patented left and right -- 
oops. Also,  it's
 proven very difficult for the government (or anyone else) to regulate 
individual bees, moths, and the wind, which accounts for the out-crossing by 
providing pollination between the GM and OP crops. These issues are tracked in 
a number of publications, but one of the best across the board is Acres U.S.A.
   
  Fortunately, there's always an alternative movement. In addition to Andrew's 
list, try Johnny's Seeds www.johnnyseeds.com or Google "heirloom seeds" for a 
broad list of seed suppliers that specialize in heirloom and other OP seeds. 
   
  To engage in something even more subversive, Google "seed savers." There are 
tens of thousands of people out there who save seeds and have them to trade, 
sell cheap, or give away for the price of a stamp. There are listings of such 
people not just in the Google results, but also in magazines like Countryside & 
Small Stock Journal, Grit, Back Home, Backwoods Home (yes, it's two different 
magazines), and Rodale's Organic Gardening. Check out homesteading forums on 
the web -- most are a great communities (not unlike this one), and there are 
many seed-sharing sub-forums. One of my favorites is at 
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/
   
  By all means, go plant something!! 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 16:07:35 -0500
From: "andrew strasfogel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Message-ID:
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Dave,

I have a stack of catalogs at home - too many to list.  Try Shumways,
Pinetree Gardens (superseeds.com), Jung seeds in Wisconsin, even
 Burpee.
They all sell heirloom as well as organic seeds.

There is also an organization called seed savers that collects old
 varieties
before they go extinct, and the greatest magazine on earth, Mother
 Earth
News, which is full of great ideas and stories (published 6
 times/year).

On Jan 4, 2008 12:33 PM, Dave H... <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Where do you get the seeds for these vegetables?
>
> My understanding, very limited, was that the conglomerate farms were
> putting
> the seed business out of business so that they could monopolize the
 market
> with genetically altered non seeding plants
>
>
> Dave H...
>




"Women and cats will do as they 
please. Men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." Robert A. Heinlein 
























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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Dave H...]

Two things really P  me off concerning auto insurance.

Do they really think I can drive more than one vehicle at a time?  They must 
because the only difference between the first, second, third and so on 
vehicle is maybe $20.00

How dare they run a credit history to determine if I am worthy of insurance 
or not!


Dave H...

--
From: "Allan Streib" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 2:39 PM
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

> "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Go to a health insurance program that sets rates by lifestyle
>> analysis & family history and you might find yourself in an
>> expensive, high risk group for no other reason than a few distant
>> relatives died from of heart disease or cancer! How fair would this
>> scenario be to you?
>
> Probably more than you might think, almost everyone has a relative
> somewhere close in the family tree who has had cancer or heart
> disease, it might not have that much predictive significance.
>
> The Auto insurance industry seems to have figured this out, your rate
> is partly based on broad risk factors and partly based on your
> individual behavior (past accidents, speeding tickets, etc.)
>
> Allan
> -- 
> 1983 300D
> 1966 230
>
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Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Discussion List: coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[Kevin Kraly]

You can taste the original Coke in Mexico -- labor being cheaper there, and 
the diet being
far more dependent on whole corn than ours, they still use cane sugar in 
Coca Cola.

While I was in Canada participating in the Victoria B.C. Dragon Boat 
Festival, I noticed quite a difference in their coke compared to ours here 
in the states.  It tasted so much better and more like the coke of old.  I 
never thought that there was a change in the taste of coke over the years 
until then.  For that matter, the Canadian Sprite is also much better too, 
eh?

Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
1983 300SD 266Kmi, Ursula
PS.  I've heard that our US diesel hasn't been too good either. 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Furnace ignition problems

[Rich Thomas]

Sticking gas solenoid.

--R

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Re: [MBZ] Only ONE Complaint

[R A Bennell]

No, unfortunately, they just wait a bit until you buy the replacements and 
break in again to steal the new stuff. I
know someone who had that happen. The burglers even went through the filing 
cabinet and took the instruction
manuals and warranty papers etc.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chuck Landenberger
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 3:18 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Only ONE Complaint


Curt,

Sorta' my feeling that the "Burglars Network" informs other
miscreants "There ain't nuthin' left!"

All in all it really sucks!

Chuck
On Jan 4, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

>
> Ever read the Discworld books by Terry Pratchet?
> Once robbed by the thieves guild you get a pass so nobody else will
> rob you for awhile.
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:11:38 -0500
> From: "LarryT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Only ONE Complaint
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>  reply-type=original
>
> < kids  Just want to know where I can call to register a
> complaint>>
>
> Maybe the Burgulars Union?
>
> Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
> www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
> Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
> PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
> Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
>
>
> -
> Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Inner city driving

[R A Bennell]

No problemo Andrew. Just register it in the name of one of your wife's 
relatives here in Winnipeg, and "borrow" it
from them. MPIC is even relatively inexpensive insurance. Please Note that this 
won't be legal or legitimate etc.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 2:41 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Inner city driving


Randy, the whole point of my offer is to have YOU negotiate with Canada
Customs, US DOT, TSA, INS, and any other bureaucrats who might have an
opinion on whether it's LEGAL to drive a SMART into and within the USA.
What more of an Excellent Adventure could that be for a law abiding citizen
from the Canadian heartland?
But if it isn't a diesel, it probably won't be worth the effort.
On Jan 4, 2008 1:12 PM, archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Reminds me of the BMW Isettas of the 1950s.  One problem with them was
> that
> they tended to go airbourne if they got hit.
> Gerry
> --
> From: "R A Bennell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > You are right. My wife wants one. I've been discouraging this. It just
> > makes no sense to me at all.
> > Randy
>
> andrew strasfogel
>  > To each his own.
> > The Smart, "loathsome" to some, is "cute" to les girls.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT HDTV

[Kevin]

Will be interesting to see how that turns out, once someone stands up and
fights them on it.

On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 03:49:27PM -0600, John Robbins wrote:
> On an unrelated note, the RIAA is now suing people for making MP3s off 
> of the music CD they have legally purchased.

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Re: [MBZ] Only ONE Complaint

[Mitch Haley]

Chuck Landenberger wrote:

> Sorta' my feeling that the "Burglars Network" informs other
> miscreants "There ain't nuthin' left!"

That isn't how it worked with Tony Martin. They can hit again
and again if they know the law prevents you from trying to stop them. 
Fortunately you don't live in UK, so if they try to hit you again,
they will continue to try to do it when you aren't there. 

Repeat business makes sense in a way. The 2nd time around they
get the new stuff you bought to replace the old crap they took
the first time. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT HDTV

[John Robbins]

LarryT wrote:
> Hopefully he can burn them to DVDs?  I missed an episode of NCIS IIRC and it 
> was posted on the net within a week of the original airing on their official 
> website - burned it to a DVD and Viola!  Presto Chango - Elvis is Back!  ;-)

Unfortunately, DRM (digital rights management) won't let him burn it to 
a DVD.  Almost everyone (except the media producers and their lobbyists) 
think that being able to make a copy for personal use (ie, backup or for 
viewing on your TV) is a fair use of the purchased material, and isn't 
copyright infringement.  The DRM from iTunes only lets him watch the 
video in iTunes, his iPod, or (if we had one) the apple TV thing.

On an unrelated note, the RIAA is now suing people for making MP3s off 
of the music CD they have legally purchased.

John


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Re: [MBZ] Inner city driving

[Mitch Haley]

andrew strasfogel wrote:
> Randy, the whole point of my offer is to have YOU negotiate with Canada
> Customs, US DOT, TSA, INS, and any other bureaucrats who might have an
> opinion on whether it's LEGAL to drive a SMART into and within the USA.

My aunt recently bought a used Caddy from a widow in Ontario. The car
was probably nearly identical to a US model, and it wasn't brand new,
so it was relatively trouble free. The problem was with Michigan's
Secretary of State. They claimed that because the title said 
Mr/Mrs they had to treat it as if it were owned by Mr & Mrs, not Mr or Mrs,
and my aunt couldn't title it in her name until the dead guy signed off on
the original title. She had to get an official certified copy of the death
certificate, and some extra paperwork signed by the widow in order to
transfer the title. I got the idea it would have been just as bad if the
seller were from Michigan.

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Re: [MBZ] OT HDTV

[Mitch Haley]

LarryT wrote:
> 
> Hi John,
> You wrote:< some sitcom for $15.  No commercials.  He does have to watch it on his
> computer though.>>

Best Buy had a 1/2 off TV DVD sale last week. I completed my M*A*S*H
collection at $17.49 per season (except for #11, which was $16.49).

I've seen music CDs at Amazon for $8.95 with free shipping, or I
could download it in mp3 format for $9.95. I think I'd rather wait
for the real CD to come in the mail, and rip it to mp3 for my Sansa.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[John M McIntosh]

On Jan 4, 2008, at 9:37 AM, R A Bennell wrote:

>
> The one really good thing about McD is that it is pretty consistent.

Also they have aggressive food safety rules which is not to be sneezed  
at, chances of dropping in at a random one and getting food poisoning  
is low.
Sadly pick your random restaurant in any town america and chances  
might be good, let alone issues like hepatitis exposure.

  in some countries (ie russia) they own the process from the field to  
the frier.
Similar safety also at Red Lobster, met the food safety officer on a  
plane flight one day, her job was to eat out alot, then take samples,  
temp measurements and review all the records
at each restaurant in the chain.

John
1983 300TDt  386k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac)
1990's 300TDt  216k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac)
1993 500SEL 204k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac)



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Re: [MBZ] OT HDTV

[LarryT]

Hi John,
You wrote:<>

Hopefully he can burn them to DVDs?  I missed an episode of NCIS IIRC and it 
was posted on the net within a week of the original airing on their official 
website - burned it to a DVD and Viola!  Presto Chango - Elvis is Back!  ;-)

Man!  That's cool (what your brother did) I hope we can do that to all the 
channels/stuff we want - then I can shutdown cable TV and upgrade my net 
access.  Seems Comcast has some superduper-turbo connection speed available 
for just a Few Dollars More. ;-)
 Cool stuff!

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
.

- Original Message - 
From: "John Robbins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT HDTV


> LarryT wrote:
>> Didn;t mean to imply they would turn off towers - but as far as
>> upgrading phones - when I bought my last phones all I wanted was a
>> basic phone - all I do is place calls - don;t need a screen,
>> send/receive text, a camera, and all the other "enhancements" on the
>> phones.  Looking at the phones in the Verizon store (Verizon because
>> they have coverage in the country where my wife works) all they had
>> were phones with bells and whistles.  I didn;t want or need a phone
>> with a camera but I was told they no longer offer phones without a
>> camera.  Surely there are more people than me who don't care to use
>> their phone as a camera?
>
> I agree on the camera thing...  they do still make phones without
> cameras, but you probably aren't going to see them in a normal retail
> store (a lot of govt. jobs don't allow you to have camera phones, etc).
>  A lot of the basic phones have cameras, but the basic ones don't have
> a good camera in them.  So while you are paying extra for it, it really
> isn't as much as it would appear.  Personally, I just want a small,
> thin, flip phone that has a good screen.  I'm waiting for the next
> iteration of phones before I upgrade my current one (I've had it for ~3
> years now).  Some of the phones out there now come close, but not enough
> for me to upgrade.
>
>> I think the discussion has gotten mixed together - phones, cable TV,
>>  HDTV, etc - when I said services were degraded to persuade people to
>> upgrade I was speaking of cable TV turning off more and more channels
>> (~10 channels in the last year) in the basic cable TV and moving them
>> into Digital TV, effectively raising the cost of the package I
>> subscribed to.
>
> I guess that is a cable company thing.  My local one (and it is quite
> local, 'Northland Cable') hasn't turned off any channels.  They just
> haven't added any in the past 5 years.
>
>> I happen to believe the customer should have the option of choosing
>> what goes into the packages they pay for - and while it doesn;t/can;t
>> work in some situations/industries, the cable TV industry could
>> easily attach a price to each channel and include/exclude it from a
>> package.  They have enormous flexibility...
>
> I agree completely.  With digital TV you can control exactly which
> channels each customer has access to, but they would lose LOTS of money.
>  It only costs them $x per channel, but they make money because you are
> paying for a bunch of channels you don't want.  So everyone makes more
> money except us.  This is going to start slowly changing as the internet
> becomes more of a distribution media.  You can already buy a *lot* of
> different TV episodes on iTunes.  My brother just bought a season of
> some sitcom for $15.  No commercials.  He does have to watch it on his
> computer though.  Eventually cable companies are going to have to
> compete with this.  Sooner rather than later I hope!!
>
> John
>
>
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[MBZ] Healthy living? was Re: Coffee is hot

[Donald Snook]

Andrew wrote: 

 

"Yes, and there are some (probably a handful of) lifetime smokers who
never get cancer or heart disease, are incredibly healthy, and if they
do die it's in their sleep on account of old age rather than disease." 

 

My grandfather was a little like that.  He smoked 6 packs of pall mall
non-filters for 35 years.  Yes, that is correct - 6 packs.  My father
said he smoked in the shower.  He would get up in the middle of night
twice and smoke 2-3 cigarettes each time.  He woke up one morning and
coughed up some blood, so he quit smoking.  Cold Turkey, just like that.
He did everything BIG.  He was 6'6" 325 lbs.  He had 12 children.  He
wasn't an especially friendly man. But, he served in WWII, Korea and
Vietnam (in the early days of that particular conflict).  He was a beast
of a man.  Did not believe in doctors even though he was a Full Bird
Colonel in the Medical Corps and spent his military career commanding
hospitals.  He attributed good health to vitamins. LOTS AND LOTS of
vitamins and to being a good catholic.  

 

He only lived to 80 which is not all that old in terms of average life
expectancy, but for someone his size who smoked that much and raised
that many kids, I think it is practically a miracle. 

 

Donald H. Snook

 

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Re: [MBZ] Only ONE Complaint

[Chuck Landenberger]

Curt,

Sorta' my feeling that the "Burglars Network" informs other  
miscreants "There ain't nuthin' left!"

All in all it really sucks!

Chuck
On Jan 4, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

>
> Ever read the Discworld books by Terry Pratchet?
> Once robbed by the thieves guild you get a pass so nobody else will  
> rob you for awhile.
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:11:38 -0500
> From: "LarryT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Only ONE Complaint
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>  reply-type=original
>
> < kids  Just want to know where I can call to register a
> complaint>>
>
> Maybe the Burgulars Union?
>
> Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
> www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
> Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
> PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
> Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
>
>
> -
> Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Furnace ignition problems

[John Robbins]

Allan Streib wrote:
> I have the manual.  The ignitor glows nice an bright, I don't think
> it's the problem.  There is a check that calls for measuring the
> resistance, it's supposed to be within a certain range.  I have not
> tried that yet because it seemed to be working.

I would check the resistance then.  I would think that the outside air 
temp where the ignitor wouldn't work should be lower than zero.  Many 
places get colder than that, even if it is not typically your area 
(which is why you haven't seen it till now).

John


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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Gary Hurst]

i only quit smoking in earnest because it gave chest pains and i took that
as an indicator that it was time to give it up.  otherwise, i'd smoke to
this day.

On Jan 4, 2008 4:01 PM, LWB250 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My paternal grandfather smoked two packs of Marlboros
> a day along with consuming at least 2-3 shots of
> Canadian Club.  While infirm in his last few years, he
> lived to 98.
>
> My Dad died at 54, almost 25 years ago, the victim of
> esophageal cancer.  He was a pipe smoker.  Go figure.
> The 5 year survival rate for esophageal cancer is
> still pretty lousy today, too.
>
> Dan (non-smoker)
>
>
>
> --- andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Yes, and there are some (probably a handful of)
> > lifetime smokers who never
> > get cancer or heart disease, are incredibly healthy,
> > and if they do die it's
> > in their sleep on account of old age rather than
> > disease.  Chalk it up to
> > genetics, like those athletes who when praised demur
> > by attributing their
> > prowess to "God-given talent".  What they really
> > mean is that they were
> > blessed with awesome genes.
>
>
>
>
>  
> 
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Furnace ignition problems

[Allan Streib]

John Robbins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Do you still have the manual for your furnace (or did you ever have 
> one)?  I imagine there is a procedure for checking the igniter.  I can 
> look at mine when I get home tonight if you are interested.  You might 
> just need to replace the igniter no need to rig anything.

I have the manual.  The ignitor glows nice an bright, I don't think
it's the problem.  There is a check that calls for measuring the
resistance, it's supposed to be within a certain range.  I have not
tried that yet because it seemed to be working.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[andrew strasfogel]

Dave,

I have a stack of catalogs at home - too many to list.  Try Shumways,
Pinetree Gardens (superseeds.com), Jung seeds in Wisconsin, even Burpee.
They all sell heirloom as well as organic seeds.

There is also an organization called seed savers that collects old varieties
before they go extinct, and the greatest magazine on earth, Mother Earth
News, which is full of great ideas and stories (published 6 times/year).

On Jan 4, 2008 12:33 PM, Dave H... <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Where do you get the seeds for these vegetables?
>
> My understanding, very limited, was that the conglomerate farms were
> putting
> the seed business out of business so that they could monopolize the market
> with genetically altered non seeding plants
>
>
> Dave H...
>
> --
> From: "andrew strasfogel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:30 PM
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot
>
> > Baloney phoney.  Food never tasted better.  We are in a renaissance
> where
> > healthful food tastes great - period.  We can eat better AND live
> longer.
> > I
> > grow heirloom vegetables from the last century and they make summer
> worth
> > waiting for.
> >
> > On Jan 4, 2008 10:45 AM, Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> "Gary Hurst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >>
> >> > which is why mcdonald's probably tried to get the coffee right, as
> >> > there are likely man people who will accept mediocre food as the
> >> > cost of fast food but cannot live with crappy drink.
> >>
> >> McDonalds for most of its history made decisions on the basis of what
> >> tasted the best.  They caught hell for years from the health nut
> >> fringe about their french fries because they cooked them in beef lard
> >> shortening.  They did that because they were crisper and tasted better
> >> that way.  They tried over 50 different blends of shortening before
> >> arriving at perfection.
> >>
> >> Finally they relented and switched to a vegetable oil blend, now the
> >> fries are soggy and don't taste very good, even if they are fresh out
> >> of the fryer.  And it turns out that the trans-fats in vegetable-based
> >> oil that they never wanted to use in the first place aren't any good
> >> for you either.
> >>
> >> Same with their milk shakes, they used to be made with milk and cream
> >> and had a really good "icy bite" now they are made with some low fat
> >> concoction and you might as well be drinking cold flavored elmer's
> >> school glue.
> >>
> >> Notice that back then you did not have to get monstrous portions to
> >> feel you were getting a good value.  The food tasted GOOD.  The health
> >> food whiners have forced out the flavor and quality and the stuff is
> >> not any better for you than it ever was, and now they have to sell you
> >> triple-sized portions so at least you feel it's worth buying at all.
> >>
> >> --
> >> 1983 300D
> >> 1966 230
> >>
> >> ___
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> >>
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Re: [MBZ] coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[Allan Streib]

Curt Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I'll admit they maintain high quality control over their beef but its
> like 50% lean...

No, it's actually around 80% lean.  I think the quarter pounders are a
little less lean and the 10:1 are a little more.  There was the awful
"McLean" patty that they tried for a while, it was really low fat but
tasted terrible and nobody bought it.

> Oh and to go with Hursty, McD's was the worst job I ever had. I
> ended my tenure there by getting good and drung and blowing chunks
> all over the drive thru...

hm.  I thought it was a pretty good job for a high school/college kid
when I was there.  We had a fun bunch of people working there, I guess
experiences vary.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Furnace ignition problems

[andrew strasfogel]

We may not agree on much, but it would be a shame to lose you, Allan.
Please call a natural-gas certified tech as this doesn't sound like a DIY
job, even if it were moderated by the multiple-Mensa-ites that inhabit
this list.

On Jan 4, 2008 3:57 PM, Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Now that it's warmed up a bit my furnace problems have gone away.
>
> Problem was, gas burner did not reliably ignite within the time limit
> before the controller gave up.
>
> This is a natural gas fired, high efficiency unit where the combustion
> air is drawn in from the outside through a PVC pipe.
>
> Anyone think that drawing in 0 degree air would make the ignition more
> difficult than 25 or warmer degree air?  Seems unlikely to me, but
> that's all that's really changed and correlates to the appearance and
> disappearance of the problem.
>
> Now thinking of rigging some kind of diverter box in the pipe, tied
> into the ignitor circuit so that while the ignitor is energized the
> combustion air is drawn in from inside (warm), and once the burner
> ignites (and the ignitor shuts off) the flap closes and the air is
> drawn in from outside.
>
> Allan
> --
> 1983 300D
> 1966 230
>
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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[LWB250]

My paternal grandfather smoked two packs of Marlboros
a day along with consuming at least 2-3 shots of
Canadian Club.  While infirm in his last few years, he
lived to 98.

My Dad died at 54, almost 25 years ago, the victim of
esophageal cancer.  He was a pipe smoker.  Go figure. 
The 5 year survival rate for esophageal cancer is
still pretty lousy today, too.

Dan (non-smoker)



--- andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Yes, and there are some (probably a handful of)
> lifetime smokers who never
> get cancer or heart disease, are incredibly healthy,
> and if they do die it's
> in their sleep on account of old age rather than
> disease.  Chalk it up to
> genetics, like those athletes who when praised demur
> by attributing their
> prowess to "God-given talent".  What they really
> mean is that they were
> blessed with awesome genes.



  

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Furnace ignition problems

[John Robbins]

Allan Streib wrote:
> Now thinking of rigging some kind of diverter box in the pipe, tied
> into the ignitor circuit so that while the ignitor is energized the
> combustion air is drawn in from inside (warm), and once the burner
> ignites (and the ignitor shuts off) the flap closes and the air is
> drawn in from outside.

Do you still have the manual for your furnace (or did you ever have 
one)?  I imagine there is a procedure for checking the igniter.  I can 
look at mine when I get home tonight if you are interested.  You might 
just need to replace the igniter no need to rig anything.

John




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Re: [MBZ] coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[andrew strasfogel]

Eating there once in awhile isn't the problem.  It's the cumulative effect
of dining there on a daily basis.  Go see "Supersize me" (not a Michael
Moore film, BTW).

On Jan 4, 2008 3:50 PM, Curt Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> I'll admit they maintain high quality control over their beef but its like
> 50% lean...
>
> I lifted a box of quarter pounder meat when I worked there. We tried
> cooking it over charcoal but a couple patties could make 6' high flames.
>
> It was good fun until the fire department came.
>
> Oh and to go with Hursty, McD's was the worst job I ever had. I ended my
> tenure there by getting good and drung and blowing chunks all over the drive
> thru...
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:22:33 -0500
> From: Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all
>  about profit
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Sunny Letot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >   During the 1980s and early 1990s, McDonald's contracted with my
> >   firm to write, maintain, and update all their handbooks, training
> >   manuals, food prep protocols, regional supply source order forms,
> >   ingredient disclosure forms, and franchise packets, as well as all
> >   bulletins (info that needed to be distributed to company stores
> >   and franchises before the next full update).
>
> Hm, well I can tell you for sure that when the switch was made to
> vegetable oil for french fries, at least in the domestic stores, the
> vegetable oil was partially hydrogentated, solid, and came in a
> plastic liner inside a cardboard box.  It was not liquid soy oil,
> which is not even really suitable for deep frying.
>
> As far as I know it still is, but I suppose they could have switched
> to something else recently.
>
> I've never seen any evidence that McDonalds would sacrifice taste or
> quality solely to save money.  They use real fresh eggs, real butter,
> and generally better quality beef, cheese, and produce than most
> people buy for themselves in the grocery store.
>
> The veg oil switch for french fries, and the reformulation of the ice
> cream and milkshake mixes, was driven by pressure from health advocacy
> groups and negative media attention, not cost savings.
>
> Allan
> --
> 1983 300D
> 1966 230
>
>
> -
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo!
> Search.
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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[dave walton]

Yes, he lived just outside of Oberlin, Ohio for a while. Not far from
Cleveland.
He had a family history of heart disease and NEVER went to the see the
doctor until his autopsy.

-Dave Walton


On Jan 4, 2008 3:20 PM, Curt Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Remember Jim Fixx died of a heart attack
>
> ;)
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:08:16 -0600
> From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot
> To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dave,
>
> Your logic can be applied to just about any lifestyle. For example, do
>  you
> ride a bicycle or run? If so then why should my insurance pay for your
> hospital stay just because you decided to participate in this high risk
> activity and you were hit by a car? After all, it's your decision to go
>  out
> & ride or run on public streets, correct?
>
> My real point is that insurance works because the associated risk &
>  cost are
> spread across all policy holders. In other words, those receive bypass
> surgery & chemotherapy get the same treatment as someone who's run over
>  by a
> car & the cost is shared by all.
>
> Go to a health insurance program that sets rates by lifestyle analysis
>  &
> family history and you might find yourself in an expensive, high risk
>  group
> for no other reason than a few distant relatives died from of heart
>  disease
> or cancer! How fair would this scenario be to you?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Hargrave
> www.kegkits.com
> 256-656-1924
>
>
> -
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it 
> now.
>
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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[andrew strasfogel]

Yes, and there are some (probably a handful of) lifetime smokers who never
get cancer or heart disease, are incredibly healthy, and if they do die it's
in their sleep on account of old age rather than disease.  Chalk it up to
genetics, like those athletes who when praised demur by attributing their
prowess to "God-given talent".  What they really mean is that they were
blessed with awesome genes.




On Jan 4, 2008 3:20 PM, Curt Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Remember Jim Fixx died of a heart attack
>
> ;)
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:08:16 -0600
> From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot
> To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dave,
>
> Your logic can be applied to just about any lifestyle. For example, do
>  you
> ride a bicycle or run? If so then why should my insurance pay for your
> hospital stay just because you decided to participate in this high risk
> activity and you were hit by a car? After all, it's your decision to go
>  out
> & ride or run on public streets, correct?
>
> My real point is that insurance works because the associated risk &
>  cost are
> spread across all policy holders. In other words, those receive bypass
> surgery & chemotherapy get the same treatment as someone who's run over
>  by a
> car & the cost is shared by all.
>
> Go to a health insurance program that sets rates by lifestyle analysis
>  &
> family history and you might find yourself in an expensive, high risk
>  group
> for no other reason than a few distant relatives died from of heart
>  disease
> or cancer! How fair would this scenario be to you?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Hargrave
> www.kegkits.com
> 256-656-1924
>
>
> -
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it
> now.
>  ___
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[MBZ] OT: Furnace ignition problems

[Allan Streib]

Now that it's warmed up a bit my furnace problems have gone away.

Problem was, gas burner did not reliably ignite within the time limit
before the controller gave up.

This is a natural gas fired, high efficiency unit where the combustion
air is drawn in from the outside through a PVC pipe.

Anyone think that drawing in 0 degree air would make the ignition more
difficult than 25 or warmer degree air?  Seems unlikely to me, but
that's all that's really changed and correlates to the appearance and
disappearance of the problem.

Now thinking of rigging some kind of diverter box in the pipe, tied
into the ignitor circuit so that while the ignitor is energized the
combustion air is drawn in from inside (warm), and once the burner
ignites (and the ignitor shuts off) the flap closes and the air is
drawn in from outside.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

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Re: [MBZ] coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[Curt Raymond]

I'll admit they maintain high quality control over their beef but its like 50% 
lean...

I lifted a box of quarter pounder meat when I worked there. We tried cooking it 
over charcoal but a couple patties could make 6' high flames.

It was good fun until the fire department came.

Oh and to go with Hursty, McD's was the worst job I ever had. I ended my tenure 
there by getting good and drung and blowing chunks all over the drive thru...

-Curt

Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:22:33 -0500
From: Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all
 about profit
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Sunny Letot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>   During the 1980s and early 1990s, McDonald's contracted with my
>   firm to write, maintain, and update all their handbooks, training
>   manuals, food prep protocols, regional supply source order forms,
>   ingredient disclosure forms, and franchise packets, as well as all
>   bulletins (info that needed to be distributed to company stores
>   and franchises before the next full update).

Hm, well I can tell you for sure that when the switch was made to
vegetable oil for french fries, at least in the domestic stores, the
vegetable oil was partially hydrogentated, solid, and came in a
plastic liner inside a cardboard box.  It was not liquid soy oil,
which is not even really suitable for deep frying.

As far as I know it still is, but I suppose they could have switched
to something else recently.

I've never seen any evidence that McDonalds would sacrifice taste or
quality solely to save money.  They use real fresh eggs, real butter,
and generally better quality beef, cheese, and produce than most
people buy for themselves in the grocery store.

The veg oil switch for french fries, and the reformulation of the ice
cream and milkshake mixes, was driven by pressure from health advocacy
groups and negative media attention, not cost savings.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

   
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Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Discussion List: coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[andrew strasfogel]

Ok, Curt - I'll bite.  There has to be a great anecdote in there.

On Jan 4, 2008 3:17 PM, Curt Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Says who? I worked there in '95 and scooped vegetable shortening from a 5
> gallon bucket (similar to an ice cream bucket) into the fryer...
> When you drained the "oil" you had to get it into the oil dumpster within
> 15 minutes or it'd solidify and wouldn't pump. Ask me how I know THAT one!
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:47:32 -0800 (PST)
> From: Sunny Letot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [MBZ] Mercedes Discussion List: coffee is hot, milkshakes are
>  cold, and it's all about profit
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> There are no trans fats in their fries -- trans fats are a
>  product of hydrogenation (to make the oil solid at room temp), and
>  McDonald's uses liquid shortening in their fryers and has since they
> stopped
>  using tallow -- it's easier and faster, i.e. saves time and money.
>
>
> -
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it
> now.
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Re: [MBZ] compusa

[Curt Raymond]

Yeah I heard on the radio they got bought and are being closed. They were 
headquartered out here somewhere...

I always hated them, I'd been in 2 different ones and the service ranged from 
awful to down right fraudulent...

-Curt

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:51:50 -0600
From: "Kaleb C. Striplin \(CAT\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [MBZ] compusa
To: "Banned List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Mercedes Discussion List"
 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I guess they are going out of business.  Needed to go by there to get a
 power supply and everything was 20% off.  Apparantly the whole company
 is going out of business.  When I need something local I go there.
 Strange.

---
Kaleb C. Striplin
Cox Auto Trader
730-Tulsa FSBO Supervisor

   
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Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Discussion List: coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[andrew strasfogel]

ROFLOL!!  Much funnier than if you had worked at Little Caesar's.

On Jan 4, 2008 2:30 PM, Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> i worked at a little ceaser's once and that was ONE CRAPPY JOB.
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 2:23 PM, Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Your account does not correlate to my knowledge.  Have you worked in a
> > McDonalds?
> >
> > Allan
> > --
> > 1983 300D
> > 1966 230
> >
> > Sunny Letot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > >   Oh, and the french fries? No one "made" McDonald's give up the beef
> > > tallow. (And yes, the fries were crisper and tastier fried in 93%
> > > tallow and 7% cottonseed oil!) The reason they used the tallow mixture
> > > is that it had an indefinite shelf life, and was, back in the day,
> > > much cheaper than any other fat they could use for frying. However,
> > > when they began to expand into other countries and run into Hindu
> > > objections regarding beef consumption (don't ask me why a hamburger
> > > joint would try to market to Hindus -- that one's beyond me!), along
> > > with the Surgeon General's long-standing warning about saturated fat,
> > > they changed to vegetable oil. There are no trans fats in their fries
> > > -- trans fats are a product of hydrogenation (to make the oil solid at
> > > room temp), and McDonald's uses liquid shortening in their fryers and
> > > has since they stopped using tallow -- it's easier and faster,
> > > i.e. saves time and money.
> >
> > ___
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] Inner city driving

[andrew strasfogel]

Randy, the whole point of my offer is to have YOU negotiate with Canada
Customs, US DOT, TSA, INS, and any other bureaucrats who might have an
opinion on whether it's LEGAL to drive a SMART into and within the USA.
What more of an Excellent Adventure could that be for a law abiding citizen
from the Canadian heartland?
But if it isn't a diesel, it probably won't be worth the effort.
On Jan 4, 2008 1:12 PM, archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Reminds me of the BMW Isettas of the 1950s.  One problem with them was
> that
> they tended to go airbourne if they got hit.
> Gerry
> --
> From: "R A Bennell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > You are right. My wife wants one. I've been discouraging this. It just
> > makes no sense to me at all.
> > Randy
>
> andrew strasfogel
>  > To each his own.
> > The Smart, "loathsome" to some, is "cute" to les girls.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] (NE) Customer Complaint - Store 3212

[andrew strasfogel]

They had GREAT jeans for only 13 bucks, plus free tastings of fudge that was
to die for.

On Jan 4, 2008 1:24 PM, LWB250 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Costcos seem to be somewhat inconsistent.
>
> When I lived in S. San Francisco, there was a Costco
> close by that had a  wonderful selection of stuff, a
> lot of it with depth (more than one brand of a
> product, different levels of quality, etc.)
>
> They opened a Costco near the house down here a few
> years ago, and I went to it with great expectations,
> since Dead Sam's Club was the only warehouse store in
> town at the time.
>
> The Costco sucked, to put it mildly.  Poor selection,
> no depth, pretty much a "take it or leave it" approach
> to selling.  To be fair, I went back several times
> over the next year, thinking they might be holding
> back a bit in a new store until they figured out
> inventory trends.  No such luck - it's still that way.
>
> Dan
>
> --- andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I went to a Costco while in Atlanta over Xmas.  That
> > is one FINE store, and
> > I hear they even pay their employees generously,
> > unlike some other big
> > boxers.
>
>
>
>
>  
> 
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Supposed Tips on Fueling Up

[andrew strasfogel]

I once had one of those heart-attack moments involving an overly filled gas
tank.

I filled up (to within one mm of capacity) my W108 280SE sedan on the
hottest day of summer (about 98 degrees and there was no shade!), then drove
it home about 5 miles.  I arrived and shut off the engine.  To my horror
gasoline was spewing out from the tank through the filler door (driver's
side IIRC).  It gurgled on for a minute or two and then thankfully ceased.
I guess the gas was cool when I filled it and got heated up by the sun on
the way home (?), and/or I didn't secure the cap tightly enough.
Fortunately this never happened again.

On Jan 4, 2008 12:44 PM, R A Bennell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Not so sure about more modern vehicles, but I recall that my old Chevy
> pickup used to spill extra fuel out onto the
> ground if I filled early. I guess the fuel expanded once it warmed up and
> there wasn't enough room in the tank. Ok
> if I drove it a bit after filling but not good if filled and parked.
>
> Randy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 11:27 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Supposed Tips on Fueling Up
>
>
> Oh great, something else to worry about.  :((
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 10:52 AM, Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "Zoltan Finks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > *Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the
> > > ground temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations
> > > have their storage tanks buried below ground.
> >
> > How deep are they?  You don't have to get very deep before the
> > underground temperature is pretty constant.  Maybe 4 or 5 feet?
> >
> > Allan
> > --
> > 1983 300D
> > 1966 230
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Supposed Tips on Fueling Up

[Zoltan Finks]

Actually now that you mention this, I think I may recall that some of our
old American cars my friends and family and I drove in Arizona would spew
some fuel if filled full in the heat of the day.
Makes me think of some of those car chases that you see on TV where a car
makes a fast corner and a big misty splash of gas spews out the filler cap
area.

Brian

On Jan 4, 2008 9:44 AM, R A Bennell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Not so sure about more modern vehicles, but I recall that my old Chevy
> pickup used to spill extra fuel out onto the
> ground if I filled early. I guess the fuel expanded once it warmed up and
> there wasn't enough room in the tank. Ok
> if I drove it a bit after filling but not good if filled and parked.
>
> Randy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 11:27 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Supposed Tips on Fueling Up
>
>
> Oh great, something else to worry about.  :((
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 10:52 AM, Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "Zoltan Finks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > *Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the
> > > ground temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations
> > > have their storage tanks buried below ground.
> >
> > How deep are they?  You don't have to get very deep before the
> > underground temperature is pretty constant.  Maybe 4 or 5 feet?
> >
> > Allan
> > --
> > 1983 300D
> > 1966 230
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT HDTV

[Curt Raymond]

Actually not so far in the past I had a Samsung total bottom of the barrel 
phone that had an excellent camera. The phone SUCKED.
I got my boss to replace it by calling him. He couldn't tell my voice, we got 
new phones the next day.

-Curt

Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 13:33:34 -0600
From: John Robbins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT HDTV
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed


A lot of the basic phones have cameras, but the basic ones don't have
 a good camera in them.  So while you are paying extra for it, it really

   
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Re: [MBZ] coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[Allan Streib]

Sunny Letot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>   During the 1980s and early 1990s, McDonald's contracted with my
>   firm to write, maintain, and update all their handbooks, training
>   manuals, food prep protocols, regional supply source order forms,
>   ingredient disclosure forms, and franchise packets, as well as all
>   bulletins (info that needed to be distributed to company stores
>   and franchises before the next full update).

Hm, well I can tell you for sure that when the switch was made to
vegetable oil for french fries, at least in the domestic stores, the
vegetable oil was partially hydrogentated, solid, and came in a
plastic liner inside a cardboard box.  It was not liquid soy oil,
which is not even really suitable for deep frying.

As far as I know it still is, but I suppose they could have switched
to something else recently.

I've never seen any evidence that McDonalds would sacrifice taste or
quality solely to save money.  They use real fresh eggs, real butter,
and generally better quality beef, cheese, and produce than most
people buy for themselves in the grocery store.

The veg oil switch for french fries, and the reformulation of the ice
cream and milkshake mixes, was driven by pressure from health advocacy
groups and negative media attention, not cost savings.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Curt Raymond]

Remember Jim Fixx died of a heart attack

;)

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:08:16 -0600
From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dave,

Your logic can be applied to just about any lifestyle. For example, do
 you
ride a bicycle or run? If so then why should my insurance pay for your
hospital stay just because you decided to participate in this high risk
activity and you were hit by a car? After all, it's your decision to go
 out
& ride or run on public streets, correct?

My real point is that insurance works because the associated risk &
 cost are
spread across all policy holders. In other words, those receive bypass
surgery & chemotherapy get the same treatment as someone who's run over
 by a
car & the cost is shared by all.

Go to a health insurance program that sets rates by lifestyle analysis
 &
family history and you might find yourself in an expensive, high risk
 group
for no other reason than a few distant relatives died from of heart
 disease
or cancer! How fair would this scenario be to you?

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924

   
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[MBZ] Mercedes Discussion List: coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[Curt Raymond]

Says who? I worked there in '95 and scooped vegetable shortening from a 5 
gallon bucket (similar to an ice cream bucket) into the fryer...
When you drained the "oil" you had to get it into the oil dumpster within 15 
minutes or it'd solidify and wouldn't pump. Ask me how I know THAT one!

-Curt

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:47:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Sunny Letot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [MBZ] Mercedes Discussion List: coffee is hot, milkshakes are
 cold, and it's all about profit
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

There are no trans fats in their fries -- trans fats are a
 product of hydrogenation (to make the oil solid at room temp), and
 McDonald's uses liquid shortening in their fryers and has since they stopped
 using tallow -- it's easier and faster, i.e. saves time and money. 

   
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Re: [MBZ] Another dead overpriced burb

[Mitch Haley]

"Kaleb C. Striplin (CAT)" wrote:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170182310289

$5k for a dead 2wd 1995?
Can't blame the seller, he listed it for $99 (1/2 of meltdown value)
and no reserve.

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Re: [MBZ] coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[Sunny Letot]

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 14:23:21 -0500
From: Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Discussion List: coffee is hot, milkshakes
 are cold, and it's all about profit
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Your account does not correlate to my knowledge.  Have you worked in a
McDonalds?

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

  =
   
  No, I've never worked in a McDonald's. 
   
  During the 1980s and early 1990s, McDonald's contracted with my firm to 
write, maintain, and update all their handbooks, training manuals, food prep 
protocols, regional supply source order forms, ingredient disclosure forms, and 
franchise packets, as well as all bulletins (info that needed to be distributed 
to company stores and franchises before the next full update). 
   
  Since then, I've never had any doubt whatsoever about what I was putting in 
my mouth when I ate at McDonald's. 
   
  And it's not where I go for coffee, or for a milkshake! 
   
  Sunny 
   
  

 


"Women and cats will do as they 
please. Men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." Robert A. Heinlein 
























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Re: [MBZ] OT HDTV

[Allan Streib]

That sounds pretty interesting I will have to check that out... thanks
for the info.

Allan

John Robbins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Kevin wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 12:11:58PM -0500, Allan Streib wrote:
>>> Yep, if I could get just a bit more signal strength I'd give serious
>>> consideration to dropping my land line.
>> 
>> A car kit and a piece of sheet metal to make a ground plane, then put the 
>> antenna outside on top of something will make a night and day difference.
>
> You can then take a bluetooth cell phone and sync it with a bluetooth 
> cordless (house) phone.  Not all of them support syncing with a cell 
> phone, but some of the more high end ones do.  That way you could put 
> the cell in one part of the house with the antenna, and still be able to 
> use it throughout the house.
>
> John
>
>
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-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

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[MBZ] compusa

[Kaleb C. Striplin (CAT)]

I guess they are going out of business.  Needed to go by there to get a power 
supply and everything was 20% off.  Apparantly the whole company is going out 
of business.  When I need something local I go there. Strange.

---
Kaleb C. Striplin
Cox Auto Trader
730-Tulsa FSBO Supervisor
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Re: [MBZ] OT HDTV

[John Robbins]

Kevin wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 12:11:58PM -0500, Allan Streib wrote:
>> Yep, if I could get just a bit more signal strength I'd give serious
>> consideration to dropping my land line.
> 
> A car kit and a piece of sheet metal to make a ground plane, then put the 
> antenna outside on top of something will make a night and day difference.

You can then take a bluetooth cell phone and sync it with a bluetooth 
cordless (house) phone.  Not all of them support syncing with a cell 
phone, but some of the more high end ones do.  That way you could put 
the cell in one part of the house with the antenna, and still be able to 
use it throughout the house.

John


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Re: [MBZ] OT HDTV

[Kevin]

On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 12:11:58PM -0500, Allan Streib wrote:
> "Alex Chamberlain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > That's encouraging!
> 
> Yep, if I could get just a bit more signal strength I'd give serious
> consideration to dropping my land line.

A car kit and a piece of sheet metal to make a ground plane, then put the 
antenna outside on top of something will make a night and day difference.

This won't help us in the rural west, but will make being on the fringe
turn into a clear call.

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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Dave H...]

John,

That is a response anyone could be proud of   :


Dave H...

--
From: "John Robbins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 2:39 PM
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

> Allan Streib wrote:
>> Based on the source, I'd guess that the "facts" in that movie are few
>> and far between, and carefully chosen to support an agenda.
> 
> I'm sure there are lots of valid facts in there... the problem is that 
> the counterargument doesn't have *any*.  MM is the last person I would 
> call fair and balanced, but he does still bring up issues that should be 
> talked about by more logical people.
> 
> John
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Allan Streib]

"Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Go to a health insurance program that sets rates by lifestyle
> analysis & family history and you might find yourself in an
> expensive, high risk group for no other reason than a few distant
> relatives died from of heart disease or cancer! How fair would this
> scenario be to you?

Probably more than you might think, almost everyone has a relative
somewhere close in the family tree who has had cancer or heart
disease, it might not have that much predictive significance.

The Auto insurance industry seems to have figured this out, your rate
is partly based on broad risk factors and partly based on your
individual behavior (past accidents, speeding tickets, etc.)

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[John Robbins]

Allan Streib wrote:
> Based on the source, I'd guess that the "facts" in that movie are few
> and far between, and carefully chosen to support an agenda.

I'm sure there are lots of valid facts in there... the problem is that 
the counterargument doesn't have *any*.  MM is the last person I would 
call fair and balanced, but he does still bring up issues that should be 
talked about by more logical people.

John


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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Dave H...]

Allen,

To each his own - TG.

My belief is that we are swallowing what the media tells us to digest 
without bothering to check on anything ourselves.

There can be no doubt of Michael's previous history of employment but that 
does not necessarily mean that his current offerings are meant to entertain. 
If history demanded the way the future treated us I suppose each and 
everyone of us would be termed fools as I am sure at one time or another we 
have all played the "class clown" or at least its equivalent.

If history demanded my future I would be a continuous liar, drug addict, 
thief, etc.  Who would have ever believed that this high school drop out 
would have ended up with a Master's degree and a certified addiction/family 
counseling therapist?

This "class clown" changed some aspects of his life and actually helped some 
people help themselves.:)


Dave H...




--
From: "Allan Streib" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 2:27 PM
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

> "Dave H..." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Without attempting to be political, I am not clever enough, I might
>> suggest that you all view Michael Moore's DVD entitled Sicko.  I
>> believe it does an excellent job of laying out the facts of
>> America's vs. many other nation's health/insurance policies.
>
> Based on the source, I'd guess that the "facts" in that movie are few
> and far between, and carefully chosen to support an agenda.
>
> No I haven't watched it and don't plan to.
>
> -- 
> 1983 300D
> 1966 230
>
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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Gary Hurst]

i don't need any bypass surgery.  that is for people who eat margarine.  i
eat pure and healthy animal fats in large quantities, so no need for any
bypass.

On Jan 4, 2008 2:14 PM, dave walton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So does that mean you are going to refuse the bypass surgery?
>
> -Dave Walton
>
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 2:09 PM, Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > anything but.  you are the drain on the system, not me.  hell, i'm not
> even
> > in the system all that much and am trying to figure out how to get out
> > entirely.
> >
> >
> > On Jan 4, 2008 2:07 PM, dave walton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Actually, statistically speaking, I will earn income and pay taxes
> > > longer than you, will remain active for more years and will require
> > > less total medical care than an unhealthy person that dies at a
> > > younger age. But don't let me stop you from ignoring the facts if that
> > > makes you feel better.
> > >
> > > -Dave Walton
> > >
> > > On Jan 4, 2008 1:54 PM, Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > healthy lifestyle people cost more than unhealthy because they get
> old.
> > >  you
> > > > spend the last 5 or 10 years of your life under constant care at
> huge
> > > > expense.  i'm long dead by then.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Jan 4, 2008 12:57 PM, dave walton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I have no problem for people accepting the personal responsibility
> to
> > > > > eating junk food and living an unhealthy lifestyle.
> > > > > Should we extend that personal responsibility to the point that
> > > > > health-conscious people like my myself stop funding health
> insurance
> > > > > plans that perform the bypass operations, chemotherapy, and
> treatment
> > > > > for secondary complications that those fat smoking slobs bring
> upon
> > > > > themselves? Should healthy people like me stop paying for diabetes
> > > > > medications for anyone that weighs over 250lbs and does not
> exercise?
> > > > > Make them pay for it out of pocket or try to find health insurance
> > > > > plans that only cover fat slobs? I bet you could not afford it.
> Should
> > > > > we let you die the painful death you brought upon yourself?
> > > > >
> > > > > Face it people. The Walmarts of the world are now pushing for a
> > > > > national health plan because it will save them money. It's only a
> > > > > matter of time. Hopefully the focus will eventually switch from
> > > > > treatment to prevention. We now tax polluters in an effort to
> force
> > > > > them to clean up their act. Is it any different to tax McDonald's
> for
> > > > > the increased costs they are causing the health insurance industry
> or
> > > > > to tax cigarettes for the costs of treating people with lung
> cancer?
> > > > >
> > > > > -Dave Walton
> > > > >
> > > > > On Jan 4, 2008 11:54 AM, Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > > > > "dave walton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > People who want to eat healthy food have nothing to do with
> > > > > > > McDonald's at all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So why do they spoil it for the rest of us?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1983 300D
> > > > > > 1966 230
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ___
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> >
>
> 

Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Rich Thomas]

My neighbor was an ER Trauma Surgeon at the Level 4 Trauma Hospital here 
in Houston, where they fly in all the people they scrape up from car 
accidents, shootings, stabbings, etc.  His boss took him aside one day 
to go over his numbers (which for some impractical reason they track).  
They were only getting paid for 10% of the cases he handled, not that he 
had any choice in the matter or could do much about it anyway.  But that 
was higher than the overall average, which was at 8%.  While he was an 
extremely dedicated and compassionate doctor, he did have to wonder if 
spending that money on some of his patients was worthwhile, as he did 
see a fair number of repeat customers who had not learned from their 
previous experiences with wielders of guns, knives, and baseball bats.  
Oh, and most of his patients were not citizens of the country either -- 
they seem to have a higher incidence of life-threatening behavioral 
experiences, like not wearing seat belts, not buckling in their kids 
(they came in in multiples usually), and using guns, knives, and blunt 
instruments to add additional interesting dimensions to their social 
encounters.

Just empirical reality, YMMV.

--R

Mitch Haley wrote:
> dave walton wrote:
>   
>> Uninsured people that show up at the ER
>> hopefully get at least some treatment but pay little or nothing for
>> it. 
>> 
>
> Speak for yourself. As an uninsured person, I pay $1000 for an ER visit
> that an insurance company might have allowed them $300 for. Best I can
> do is negotiate a 10% cash discount at my local hospital. Then I only
> pay $900 for a $300 visit. 
>
> Mitch.
>
>
>   
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Re: [MBZ] OT HDTV

[John Robbins]

LarryT wrote:
> Didn;t mean to imply they would turn off towers - but as far as 
> upgrading phones - when I bought my last phones all I wanted was a
> basic phone - all I do is place calls - don;t need a screen,
> send/receive text, a camera, and all the other "enhancements" on the
> phones.  Looking at the phones in the Verizon store (Verizon because
> they have coverage in the country where my wife works) all they had
> were phones with bells and whistles.  I didn;t want or need a phone
> with a camera but I was told they no longer offer phones without a
> camera.  Surely there are more people than me who don't care to use
> their phone as a camera?

I agree on the camera thing...  they do still make phones without 
cameras, but you probably aren't going to see them in a normal retail 
store (a lot of govt. jobs don't allow you to have camera phones, etc). 
  A lot of the basic phones have cameras, but the basic ones don't have 
a good camera in them.  So while you are paying extra for it, it really 
isn't as much as it would appear.  Personally, I just want a small, 
thin, flip phone that has a good screen.  I'm waiting for the next 
iteration of phones before I upgrade my current one (I've had it for ~3 
years now).  Some of the phones out there now come close, but not enough 
for me to upgrade.

> I think the discussion has gotten mixed together - phones, cable TV,
>  HDTV, etc - when I said services were degraded to persuade people to
> upgrade I was speaking of cable TV turning off more and more channels
> (~10 channels in the last year) in the basic cable TV and moving them
> into Digital TV, effectively raising the cost of the package I
> subscribed to.

I guess that is a cable company thing.  My local one (and it is quite 
local, 'Northland Cable') hasn't turned off any channels.  They just 
haven't added any in the past 5 years.

> I happen to believe the customer should have the option of choosing
> what goes into the packages they pay for - and while it doesn;t/can;t
> work in some situations/industries, the cable TV industry could
> easily attach a price to each channel and include/exclude it from a
> package.  They have enormous flexibility...

I agree completely.  With digital TV you can control exactly which 
channels each customer has access to, but they would lose LOTS of money. 
  It only costs them $x per channel, but they make money because you are 
paying for a bunch of channels you don't want.  So everyone makes more 
money except us.  This is going to start slowly changing as the internet 
becomes more of a distribution media.  You can already buy a *lot* of 
different TV episodes on iTunes.  My brother just bought a season of 
some sitcom for $15.  No commercials.  He does have to watch it on his 
computer though.  Eventually cable companies are going to have to 
compete with this.  Sooner rather than later I hope!!

John


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Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Discussion List: coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[Mitch Haley]

Allan Streib wrote:
> 
> Your account does not correlate to my knowledge.  Have you worked in a
> McDonalds?

Yeah, I thought all the bioburners said that McD's fryer grease was
solid at room temperatures and came in baggies in cardboard boxes instead
of the 35lb plastic carboys that soy oil comes in. I always assumed the
current stuff was palm or other tropical oil.

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Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Discussion List: coffee is hot, milkshakes are cold, and it's all about profit

[Gary Hurst]

i worked at a little ceaser's once and that was ONE CRAPPY JOB.

On Jan 4, 2008 2:23 PM, Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Your account does not correlate to my knowledge.  Have you worked in a
> McDonalds?
>
> Allan
> --
> 1983 300D
> 1966 230
>
> Sunny Letot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >   Oh, and the french fries? No one "made" McDonald's give up the beef
> > tallow. (And yes, the fries were crisper and tastier fried in 93%
> > tallow and 7% cottonseed oil!) The reason they used the tallow mixture
> > is that it had an indefinite shelf life, and was, back in the day,
> > much cheaper than any other fat they could use for frying. However,
> > when they began to expand into other countries and run into Hindu
> > objections regarding beef consumption (don't ask me why a hamburger
> > joint would try to market to Hindus -- that one's beyond me!), along
> > with the Surgeon General's long-standing warning about saturated fat,
> > they changed to vegetable oil. There are no trans fats in their fries
> > -- trans fats are a product of hydrogenation (to make the oil solid at
> > room temp), and McDonald's uses liquid shortening in their fryers and
> > has since they stopped using tallow -- it's easier and faster,
> > i.e. saves time and money.
>
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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Mitch Haley]

"Dave H..." wrote:
> that you all view Michael Moore's DVD  entitled Sicko. 

Sorry, Dave, you can pay me enough to make me watch anything
directed by that lying sicko. Just so you know, he has produced
deliberate falsehoods and called it documentary in the past.
(not a comment on "Sicko", which I know nothing about, just
commentary on Michael Whore and his prior works)


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Gary Hurst]

better, as the fresh ones are often hot and might burn you

On Jan 4, 2008 1:00 PM, archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ROFL!  Probably not much different than fresh ones, eh?
> Gerry
>
> From: "Gary Hurst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > you are right.  i had some heirloom mcdonald's fries i found under that
> > car seat.  they tasted pretty good too!
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Baloney phoney.  Food never tasted better.  We are in a renaissance
> where
> >> healthful food tastes great - period.  We can eat better AND live
> longer.
> >>  I
> >> grow heirloom vegetables from the last century and they make summer
> worth
> >> waiting for.
> >>
> >> On Jan 4, 2008 10:45 AM, Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Gary Hurst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >> >
> >> > > which is why mcdonald's probably tried to get the coffee right, as
> >> > > there are likely man people who will accept mediocre food as the
> >> > > cost of fast food but cannot live with crappy drink.
> >> >
> >> > McDonalds for most of its history made decisions on the basis of what
> >> > tasted the best.  They caught hell for years from the health nut
> >> > fringe about their french fries because they cooked them in beef lard
> >> > shortening.  They did that because they were crisper and tasted
> better
> >> > that way.  They tried over 50 different blends of shortening before
> >> > arriving at perfection.
> >> >
> >> > Finally they relented and switched to a vegetable oil blend, now the
> >> > fries are soggy and don't taste very good, even if they are fresh out
> >> > of the fryer.  And it turns out that the trans-fats in
> vegetable-based
> >> > oil that they never wanted to use in the first place aren't any good
> >> > for you either.
> >> >
> >> > Same with their milk shakes, they used to be made with milk and cream
> >> > and had a really good "icy bite" now they are made with some low fat
> >> > concoction and you might as well be drinking cold flavored elmer's
> >> > school glue.
> >> >
> >> > Notice that back then you did not have to get monstrous portions to
> >> > feel you were getting a good value.  The food tasted GOOD.  The
> health
> >> > food whiners have forced out the flavor and quality and the stuff is
> >> > not any better for you than it ever was, and now they have to sell
> you
> >> > triple-sized portions so at least you feel it's worth buying at all.
>
> >> > 1983 300D
> >> > 1966 230
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[dave walton]

You are quite correct, and I don't mind paying more for my activities
that increase risk of injury. I don't agree that the current health
insurance system "works", however.

-Dave Walton


On Jan 4, 2008 2:08 PM, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Your logic can be applied to just about any lifestyle. For example, do you
> ride a bicycle or run? If so then why should my insurance pay for your
> hospital stay just because you decided to participate in this high risk
> activity and you were hit by a car? After all, it's your decision to go out
> & ride or run on public streets, correct?
>
> My real point is that insurance works because the associated risk & cost are
> spread across all policy holders. In other words, those receive bypass
> surgery & chemotherapy get the same treatment as someone who's run over by a
> car & the cost is shared by all.
>
> Go to a health insurance program that sets rates by lifestyle analysis &
> family history and you might find yourself in an expensive, high risk group
> for no other reason than a few distant relatives died from of heart disease
> or cancer! How fair would this scenario be to you?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Hargrave
> www.kegkits.com
> 256-656-1924
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of dave walton
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 11:58 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot
>
>
> I have no problem for people accepting the personal responsibility to
> eating junk food and living an unhealthy lifestyle.
> Should we extend that personal responsibility to the point that
> health-conscious people like my myself stop funding health insurance
> plans that perform the bypass operations, chemotherapy, and treatment
> for secondary complications that those fat smoking slobs bring upon
> themselves? Should healthy people like me stop paying for diabetes
> medications for anyone that weighs over 250lbs and does not exercise?
> Make them pay for it out of pocket or try to find health insurance
> plans that only cover fat slobs? I bet you could not afford it. Should
> we let you die the painful death you brought upon yourself?
>
> Face it people. The Walmarts of the world are now pushing for a
> national health plan because it will save them money. It's only a
> matter of time. Hopefully the focus will eventually switch from
> treatment to prevention. We now tax polluters in an effort to force
> them to clean up their act. Is it any different to tax McDonald's for
> the increased costs they are causing the health insurance industry or
> to tax cigarettes for the costs of treating people with lung cancer?
>
> -Dave Walton
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 11:54 AM, Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "dave walton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > People who want to eat healthy food have nothing to do with
> > > McDonald's at all.
> >
> > So why do they spoil it for the rest of us?
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > 1983 300D
> > 1966 230
> >
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> >
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Coffee is hot

[Allan Streib]

"Dave H..." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Without attempting to be political, I am not clever enough, I might
> suggest that you all view Michael Moore's DVD entitled Sicko.  I
> believe it does an excellent job of laying out the facts of
> America's vs. many other nation's health/insurance policies.

Based on the source, I'd guess that the "facts" in that movie are few
and far between, and carefully chosen to support an agenda.

No I haven't watched it and don't plan to.

-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

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