[MBZ] Jaime's next project???

[Mitch Haley]

Ready to paint, or you can leave it as is and use it for a taxi.
At least he didn't say RARE AUTOMATIC! as if it were a feature.
http://search.ebay.com/250873938331

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Re: [MBZ] OM617 300SD, nearly read for first start-up

[Mitch Haley]

Dieselhead wrote:
See Alex's 603 filter change, cranking forever thread.  Get it running 
first.  warm it up.  change oil. start it up. run it a few days unless 
fuel filters are plugged. then change one thing at a time, and run it in 
between.  Gives you a chance to learn the car and its quirks before 
introducing a lot of variables.  Changing one fluid at a time minimizes 
variables if something goes wrong.


Last time I changed a big 617 fuel filter, I did it with a hot engine.
Changed the filter, restarted the car, and gave it enough throttle to keep it 
from dying. Within 30 seconds it was idling smoothly. Easier than messing with 
the hand pump primer, and I did not have to pour unfiltered fuel into the 
canister before I installed it.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OM617 300SD, nearly read for first start-up

[Allan Streib]

Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> writes:

> See Alex's 603 filter change, cranking forever thread.  Get it running
> first.  warm it up.  change oil. start it up. run it a few days unless
> fuel filters are plugged. then change one thing at a time, and run it
> in between.  Gives you a chance to learn the car and its quirks before
> introducing a lot of variables.  Changing one fluid at a time
> minimizes variables if something goes wrong.

Makes sense, thanks.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Jaime's next project???

[Jaime Kopchinski]

Ha!  That thing has been around for a bit now... Generally cars in Newark
should be avoided.  But this is really a disaster.

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 6:09 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Ready to paint, or you can leave it as is and use it for a taxi.
> At least he didn't say RARE AUTOMATIC! as if it were a feature.
> http://search.ebay.com/**250873938331
>
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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Rolf]

More reasons I advocate manual transmissions!

-Rolf

On 08/17/2011 12:31 AM, Walt Zarnoch wrote:

A pull start is more dangerous (to the car) than having the battery tested
at the FLAPS.



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Re: [MBZ] OT Politics

[rogerhga]

Dieselhead, 
You are absolutely correct. We don't need term limits, we need voters with some 
guts. I'm telling everyone I know that next election they should vote for 
anyone else on the ballot instead of the (I) even if they have to write someone 
in or simply with hold their vote. Voters have term limits in their hands every 
time they go vote. Career politicians are killing this country, from both 
parties. 
Let's start the NO (I) movement for the next election. And that's local, state, 
and national 
Best Wishes, 
Roger Hale 
Monroe, Ga. 

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Re: [MBZ] OT Politics

[Rolf]

We need to ban political (campaign?) contributions. I believe that 
politicians should be paid at the median income of their district. Being 
a politician should be a hardship (as it once was) not a privilege.


BTW this is where I argue my politics : 
http://www.georgiasportbike.com/forumdisplay.php?37-LEPR


Despite the forum being for squids, the LEPR section is quite good. Lots 
of good discussion, little flaming.


-Rolf

On 08/17/2011 08:14 AM, roger...@comcast.net wrote:

Dieselhead,
You are absolutely correct. We don't need term limits, we need voters with some 
guts. I'm telling everyone I know that next election they should vote for 
anyone else on the ballot instead of the (I) even if they have to write someone 
in or simply with hold their vote. Voters have term limits in their hands every 
time they go vote. Career politicians are killing this country, from both 
parties.
Let's start the NO (I) movement for the next election. And that's local, state, 
and national
Best Wishes,
Roger Hale
Monroe, Ga.

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

It needs compression as well, without that it will not run.

On 8/16/2011 10:53 PM, Luther's Benz wrote:

Have you tried this start process with diesel purge from just under the 
hood? 
Are you in a situation where you can pull start it? If it won't pull 
start, then fuel blockage/leakage is the problem.

All a diesel needs is fuel and air to run...wait, have you checked to make sure 
nothing made a nest in your air intake?

Luther



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[MBZ] ADMIN, politics on the list

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

OT or not, politics on the list is not allowed.  Lets end it now before 
it gets out of hand.


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Re: [MBZ] A OT request

[andrew strasfogel]

What are you trying to retain with that wall?

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Hendrik & Fay wrote:

> Well actually I have a HTC Kaiser with slide out keyboard and wireless
> capabilities but I really need a full size keyboard for my fat fingers to
> punch on.
> Plus it's playing up and keeps switching itself off, stupid windows.
> My work phone is a Sonim brick, which doesn't do email but is reliable and
> tough.
>
> Hendrik
> who spend half a day cleaning a retaining wall
>
>
> Max Dillon wrote:
>
>> I think you're suffering from FOMO: Feeling Of Missing Out. Fay should get
>> you an Android or Iphone before you become unbearable. ;)
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OM617 300SD, nearly read for first start-up

[andrew strasfogel]

Those 16 valve Baby Benzes used to be considered highly desirable and sold
at a premium.  Has the world moved on. or is this a good opportunity for a
collector?

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Allan Streib  wrote:

> Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > See Alex's 603 filter change, cranking forever thread.  Get it running
> > first.  warm it up.  change oil. start it up. run it a few days unless
> > fuel filters are plugged. then change one thing at a time, and run it
> > in between.  Gives you a chance to learn the car and its quirks before
> > introducing a lot of variables.  Changing one fluid at a time
> > minimizes variables if something goes wrong.
>
> Makes sense, thanks.
>
> Allan
> --
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
>
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Re: [MBZ] ADMIN, politics on the list

[andrew strasfogel]

ROFLMAO!

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

> OT or not, politics on the list is not allowed.  Lets end it now before it
> gets out of hand.
>
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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Jaime Kopchinski]

Some silly questions:

Does the car have a block heater?  Is so, plug it in for several hours and
try again... the engine can be heated until its warm to the touch this way.

And, are you cranking with your foot on the pedal?  I can't remember where I
read this, but I recall that having the pedal about 1/2 way down promotes
bleeding of air from the system.  (At least, I think it did on a 200D).

Jaime


On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Alex Chamberlain
wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > As for Alex,
> > 1. crack the inj. lines at the injectors.
> > 2.  crack the return banjo fitting at the filter, or slip off the small
> line
> > form the nozzles.
> > 3. crank until you get fuel at the return line.
> > 4. close the return lines
> > 5. crank until you get fuel at the nozzles.
> > 6.  when you get fuel at the injectors, close the lines.
> > 7.  Crank it again.
> >
> > If you don't get fuel at step 3, then search for air leaks in the fuel
> > lines.  It is usually deteriorated rubber hose, but can be rust too.
>
> Well, I have followed steps 1-7 three times.  Each time I get fuel at
> steps 3 and 6.  Each time I've cranked the car until the battery ran
> down three or four times, putting it on the charger overnight between
> tries.  Still no start.  It will sound like three or four cylinders
> are firing irregularly, but never quite enough to turn under its own
> power.  The battery is fresh and I can hear that it's turning plenty
> fast enough when first cranked.  So that makes a total of about a
> dozen serious attempts at starting since changing the filters.  At
> this point I feel like I'm just killing the starter.
>
> I don't see any sign of leaky lines.  How would I test for air leaks
> too small to see easily?
>
> I thought of the glow plugs, but they are only a few years old
> (replaced when the #16 head blew).  Resistance at the GP relay
> connector is 0.5 ohm between the terminal and ground for all six
> terminals.  I don't have a VOM with a wide enough DC amp range to test
> the current draw, but I know that at least some current is being
> pulled by the fact that the interior lights dim and the pitch of the
> key-in buzzer goes lower when the key is in glow position (and the
> idiot light comes on steady).
>
> Help! I am about ready to push this car off a cliff (if I could get it
> started to drive it close enough).
>
> Alex
>
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Re: [MBZ] OM617 300SD, nearly read for first start-up

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 6:43 AM, andrew strasfogel
 wrote:
> Those 16 valve Baby Benzes used to be considered highly desirable and sold
> at a premium.  Has the world moved on. or is this a good opportunity for a
> collector?

You talking about the two-tone horror in the "Jamie's next project" thread?

Yeah, they are probably about as cheap as they are going to get right
now, and a good opportunity.  Compare to its contemporary competitor,
the E30 chassis BMW M3, which was just an old car ten years ago and
now is a hot ticket.

All those '80s factory hot rods are getting rare, and eventually they
will be so rare that no matter what the condition they will be worth
saving.  Every time I read an article about the early '80s Audi Turbo
Quattro coupe (aka ur-Quattro) I kick myself for not buying one I saw
on a used car lot for $5K about 10 years ago.  Had obviously been run
hard and put away wet---it was only running on four cylinders, and the
paint job was half original white and half rattlecan flat black---but
it still would have been a good buy.

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Alex Chamberlain]

Thanks for all the help, guys!  To address all the advice and questions at once:

- Jamie asked about the block heater.  Great idea.  It is an '87 so
has the factory block heater, and I have the cable, just never
bothered to hook it up.  Right now the car is sitting on grass at an
angle, so it's not exactly the best place to jack it up to get
underneath and install the cable, but I'll see if I can tow it into my
driveway and do that.

- Jamie and Peter asked about holding the accelerator down all the
way, and about repeatedly glowing while cranking.  I'm doing both,
essentially following a cold-weather start procedure.  Hold the pedal
down, turn key to glow position, make sure the glow light is on, wait
until I hear the relay click off, crank for fifteen seconds or so,
turn the key off, glow again, crank again, etc.  If the glow light is
on, doesn't that mean I'm getting power to the GPs?  I will check for
voltage there, regardless.  What's the easiest, safest way to bypass
the GP relay and power the GPs directly off the battery?  Run a fat
wire from the positive terminal to the GP fuse?

- Loren and others mentioned air flow.  The air filter's clean and
there's no sign of mouse or wasp activity on either side of it.  As
far as the other end, I never heard of mice or anything else clogging
an exhaust, but I'll have someone else crank while I feel at the
tailpipe for air movement.  There isn't any smoke coming out while
cranking, but I can definitely smell unburned Diesel Purge (which is
what I filled the new main filter with when I changed it).

- Walt and Peter mentioned battery condition.  The battery is new and
it's been on a Schumacher charger which has both "slow charge" and
"jump start" modes.  I've been leaving it on "slow charge" mode
overnight, then flipping the switch to "jump start" and leaving it
there for half a minute before trying to start the car.  I've also
tried hooking up another running car with a healthy electrical system
so that the two batteries are working in parallel.   That didn't seem
to make any difference.

- Peter suggested a dying starter that isn't turning quite fast
enough.  The car sounds like it is cranking at the usual speed, but I
could be deceived, I guess.  What's a good way to tell if the starter
is healthy, other than dropping $250 on a new one?  Could I use a
non-contact tachometer on one of the pulleys while cranking?  Harbor
freight has one for $30:
http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-photo-sensor-tachometer-66632.html

- Loren described a definitive test for air leaks in the fuel lines.
I'll do that.

Alex

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[MBZ] Do '87 300Ds start in first or second? [was: A triplet of cheap 300SDs in Portland!]

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Max Dillon  wrote:
> Yes, I'm quite sure. After two fills of M1 ATF, it shifts very nicely.

I'm baffled.  OK, time for a poll.  I know a half-dozen of the regular
posters and any number of lurkers have '87 300Ds and 300DTs.  Whose
cars start in first, and whose in second?

Flooring it from a stop is hard to "read" since the car will be
accelerating a lot harder.  The best way to tell is the 2-3-2 trick.
At a stop, from D, move the shifter all the way back into the 2
position, wait for it to engage, put it in 3, wait, then put it back
into 2.  This forces the transmission into first gear where it will
stay until you move the shifter.  Accelerate, and notice that the car
is far more sensitive to the pedal than usual, because you're starting
off in first (assuming you normally start in second).   When you feel
like it, move the shifter quickly from 2 to 3 and then back to 2
again.  The transmission will upshift to second and again stay there
until you move the lever. (Repeat process whenever you want to hear
that nice six-cylinder high-RPM roar.)

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Mitch Haley]

Do you have a digital sound recorder, or a laptop with a microphone in it?
Record it, play it back at reduced speed, and count the compression 
strokes. Chugs per second x 20 = rpm on a four stroke six cylinder.

100rpm would be 5 chugs per second.

Mitch.

Alex Chamberlain wrote:

- Peter suggested a dying starter that isn't turning quite fast
enough.  The car sounds like it is cranking at the usual speed, but I
could be deceived, I guess.  What's a good way to tell if the starter
is healthy, other than dropping $250 on a new one?  Could I use a
non-contact tachometer on one of the pulleys while cranking?  Harbor
freight has one for $30:
  



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Re: [MBZ] Do '87 300Ds start in first or second? [was: A triplet of cheap 300SDs in Portland!]

[Peter Frederick]

W124 diesels start in first.  Wagon gassers start in 2nd, I think the sedans in 
first, I'll have to check with my brother -- didn't notice when I drove it a 
couple weeks ago.

Peter


-Original Message-
>From: Alex Chamberlain 
>Sent: Aug 17, 2011 11:15 AM
>To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>Subject: [MBZ] Do '87 300Ds start in first or second? [was: A triplet of cheap 
>300SDs in Portland!]
>
>On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Max Dillon  wrote:
>> Yes, I'm quite sure. After two fills of M1 ATF, it shifts very nicely.
>
>I'm baffled.  OK, time for a poll.  I know a half-dozen of the regular
>posters and any number of lurkers have '87 300Ds and 300DTs.  Whose
>cars start in first, and whose in second?
>
>Flooring it from a stop is hard to "read" since the car will be
>accelerating a lot harder.  The best way to tell is the 2-3-2 trick.
>At a stop, from D, move the shifter all the way back into the 2
>position, wait for it to engage, put it in 3, wait, then put it back
>into 2.  This forces the transmission into first gear where it will
>stay until you move the shifter.  Accelerate, and notice that the car
>is far more sensitive to the pedal than usual, because you're starting
>off in first (assuming you normally start in second).   When you feel
>like it, move the shifter quickly from 2 to 3 and then back to 2
>again.  The transmission will upshift to second and again stay there
>until you move the lever. (Repeat process whenever you want to hear
>that nice six-cylinder high-RPM roar.)
>
>Alex
>
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Re: [MBZ] Do '87 300Ds start in first or second? [was: A triplet of cheap 300SDs in Portland!]

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Peter Frederick  wrote:
> W124 diesels start in first.

Not mine.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] NOW: dangerous pull starts

[Luther's Benz]

Please explain how a pull start is dangerous to the car?  Mercedes 
specifically designed these robust diesels to be pull started if needed.

Luther

On Aug 16, 2011 11:31 PM, Walt Zarnoch  wrote: 

A pull start is more dangerous (to the car) than having the battery tested

at the FLAPS.



When in doubt, put the charger on the "boost" setting, wait 1 to 2 minutes,

then start cranking.



It's worked for me every time.



Walt


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Re: [MBZ] Do '87 300Ds start in first or second? [was: A triplet of cheap 300SDs in Portland!]

[Mitch Haley]

Alex Chamberlain wrote:

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Peter Frederick  wrote:

W124 diesels start in first.


Not mine.


I've got a 'new model' shop book for the 116.120.
Among the things described there is the electrical box that forces the 2nd gear 
start transmission into first via the kickdown switch when you start out from a 
stop. It idles in 2nd to reduce creep and downshifts when you hit the gas. Mine 
doesn't because something's shorted out in the kickdown circuit.


Newer cars do not operate the way a 1979-1980 300SD does, but don't they 
preserve the 'idle in 2nd, start in 1st' concept, and fail into 'start in 2nd' 
when something goes wrong?


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Re: [MBZ] NOW: dangerous pull starts

[Mitch Haley]

Luther's Benz wrote:

Please explain how a pull start is dangerous to the car?  Mercedes 
specifically designed these robust diesels to be pull started if needed.


Rope towing is less safe crashwise than sitting in a parked car while turning a 
key?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] A triplet of cheap 300SDs in Portland!

[Curt Raymond]

I think MB decided almost at random which models to start in 2nd. My '84 190D 
starts in 2nd BTW, its quite noticeable when it drops into 1st if you hit the 
kickdown switch.

-Curt

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:53:58 -0400
From: Max Dillon 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] A triplet of cheap 300SDs in Portland!
Message-ID: <3df7e127-eb36-4fa2-bec0-7e0732cec...@email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Yes, I'm quite sure. After two fills of M1 ATF, it shifts very nicely.

Stu Ritter's Bible says that only some of the 124 gas cars started in 2nd, if 
you can believe him.

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Alex Chamberlain  wrote:

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Max Dillon  wrote:
> Both of my 124s start in first; ' 87 300td and ' 95 E300.
>

Sure about the '87? Mine definitely starts in 2nd. There is a HUGE
difference in acceleration from a stop if I force it into 1st by
flooring it or doing the 2-3-2 trick. Works nicely to surprise
teenagers in souped-up Civics.

Alex


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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
> Do you have a digital sound recorder, or a laptop with a microphone in it?
> Record it, play it back at reduced speed, and count the compression strokes.
> Chugs per second x 20 = rpm on a four stroke six cylinder.
> 100rpm would be 5 chugs per second.
>

Brilliant!  I just recorded it on my cell phone, loaded the sound file
into Audacity, and counted the peaks.  I'm getting seven chugs per
second at the start of the cranking operation; after about fifteen
seconds of steady cranking it drops rapidly to four.  Good battery and
starter, then?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Luther's Benz]

Cranking RPMs can be gauged by looking at the tach, should be around 400-500 
RPM

Luther

On Aug 17, 2011 11:02 AM, Alex Chamberlain  
wrote: 

Thanks for all the help, guys!  To address all the advice and questions at once:



- Jamie asked about the block heater.  Great idea.  It is an '87 so

has the factory block heater, and I have the cable, just never

bothered to hook it up.  Right now the car is sitting on grass at an

angle, so it's not exactly the best place to jack it up to get

underneath and install the cable, but I'll see if I can tow it into my

driveway and do that.



- Jamie and Peter asked about holding the accelerator down all the

way, and about repeatedly glowing while cranking.  I'm doing both,

essentially following a cold-weather start procedure.  Hold the pedal

down, turn key to glow position, make sure the glow light is on, wait

until I hear the relay click off, crank for fifteen seconds or so,

turn the key off, glow again, crank again, etc.  If the glow light is

on, doesn't that mean I'm getting power to the GPs?  I will check for

voltage there, regardless.  What's the easiest, safest way to bypass

the GP relay and power the GPs directly off the battery?  Run a fat

wire from the positive terminal to the GP fuse?



- Loren and others mentioned air flow.  The air filter's clean and

there's no sign of mouse or wasp activity on either side of it.  As

far as the other end, I never heard of mice or anything else clogging

an exhaust, but I'll have someone else crank while I feel at the

tailpipe for air movement.  There isn't any smoke coming out while

cranking, but I can definitely smell unburned Diesel Purge (which is

what I filled the new main filter with when I changed it).



- Walt and Peter mentioned battery condition.  The battery is new and

it's been on a Schumacher charger which has both "slow charge" and

"jump start" modes.  I've been leaving it on "slow charge" mode

overnight, then flipping the switch to "jump start" and leaving it

there for half a minute before trying to start the car.  I've also

tried hooking up another running car with a healthy electrical system

so that the two batteries are working in parallel.   That didn't seem

to make any difference.



- Peter suggested a dying starter that isn't turning quite fast

enough.  The car sounds like it is cranking at the usual speed, but I

could be deceived, I guess.  What's a good way to tell if the starter

is healthy, other than dropping $250 on a new one?  Could I use a

non-contact tachometer on one of the pulleys while cranking?  Harbor

freight has one for $30:

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-photo-sensor-tachometer-66632.html



- Loren described a definitive test for air leaks in the fuel lines.

I'll do that.



Alex



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Re: [MBZ] OT Politics

[Fred Moir]

Walt, et al.
This country is a Republic, not a democracy. per se. They are not bound 
to represent those that voted for them.
My wife bought me a tee shirt that says. "Yet, despite the look on my 
face, you're still talking".

I'll go away now.
Trying to get my 300TD an antique plate, so that I can drive it to Q's 
etc. Obligatory MB content.


Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred


On 8/17/2011 12:56 AM, Walt Zarnoch wrote:

We need a true change, as the current political system, above even the town
level in some instances, is so far out of touch with the voting public that
elected them as to throw serious doubt on the actual "democracy" of our
entire government.

That congressional apointees can go fully against campaign promises with
narry a slap on the wrist, vote how they please, and ignore the principles
that they produced to get elected, is a clear indication that there is a
fundamental flaw in our governmental model.

Sadly, the old "everyone votes for everything" policy will never be
feasable  to ennact, so we must therefore hope that we can obtaine, through
some means, stricter guidlines towards following through on campaign
promises (within reason of course).

It's sad when our representatives (not every rep, but most) fall so out of
touch with the base of people who elected them.

One of the faults we must deal with I guess...

Walt
On Aug 17, 2011 12:41 AM, "Max Dillon"  wrote:
   

No, I don't think that class warfare is the way out of this mess, and I
 

think taxing (penalizing) the most productive members of society to
redistribute their wealth is a sure way to prolong it (and morally wrong as
well). If Warren voluntarily put his money where his mouth is, stroked a
check to our Treasury for few hundred million, I'd be impressed but I still
would not agree. As I see it, liberals have tried a variation of "tax and
spend" by spending first and putting off the tax part as long as possible.
Now that chicken has come home to roost. Tea Party wants to behead, pluck
and eat that chicken (and eat all its eggs to make sure no more chickens are
coming later on), and I trend to agree. I'm sure your shocked to hear those
words from me...
   

Max
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

andrew strasfogel  wrote:

If you are a Buffet fan, then you must surely endores his idea of the
 

super
   

rich paying more taxes.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Max Dillon 

I like Warren Buffet's idea, would make a good constitutional amendment;
   

if
   

annual deficit exceeds 3% of GDP, all Senators&  and Congressman are
   

exempt
   

from running at the next election.

Max
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

G Mann  wrote:

The time has come when calling yourself a R or D has little meaning. Both
are so full of corruption and are harming America. Both parties are
   

guilty.
   

Time to "clean house".

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:40 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

   

Walt Zarnoch wrote:

 

R or D, they all seem to be out of touch with the general public.

   

Scott Brown is no more R than John McCain. Which is a lot less R than
 

JFK,
   

but very, very R for modern day Massachusetts.

Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Luther's Benz  wrote:
> Cranking RPMs can be gauged by looking at the tach, should be around 400-500 
> RPM
>

Peter says 100, I'm getting about 140.  Who's right?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Curt Raymond]

Should stink of fuel too while you're trying. 

Have you tried jumping the car off another while cranking? How long is "a long 
time" cranking? A good battery ought to be able to crank for a solid minute 
anyway.

-Curt

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 21:52:17 -0500
From: Peter Frederick 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever
Message-ID: <123f3017-6f63-41e2-8edc-dae7148a0...@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Make sure the glow plugs are working.

Glow again when it starts to sputter.

Typically it will run on a few cylinders, stopping if you let off the 
starter, then gradually hit more and more and eventually run by 
itself.  You won't overheat the starter if it's firing on a couple 
cylinders, it's not working very hard.

Is there white smoke rolling out the exhaust?  Should be if there is 
fuel delivery.

You can try bypassing the fuel preheater -- switch the suction line 
directly to the lift pump.  Replace the hoses if not new.

You can also check for air leaks by removing the return line from the 
steel line and putting it in a can partially filled with fuel and 
have someone crank the engine -- if you get lots of bubbles, you have 
an air leak on the suction side.

You may have a weak starter.  They usually croak on a 603 by locking 
up solid, but it could be cranking slow.  Minimum is 100 rprn, you 
should have better than that.  Won't start otherwise, and you can 
crank til the end of time with a slow starter and nothing will happen.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Do '87 300Ds start in first or second? [was: A triplet of cheap 300SDs in Portland!]

[Rolf]

I occasionally forget to downshift and start in 3rd :D.

-Rolf


On 08/17/2011 12:27 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:

W124 diesels start in first.  Wagon gassers start in 2nd, I think the sedans in 
first, I'll have to check with my brother -- didn't notice when I drove it a 
couple weeks ago.

Peter


-Original Message-

From: Alex Chamberlain
Sent: Aug 17, 2011 11:15 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] Do '87 300Ds start in first or second? [was: A triplet of cheap 
300SDs in Portland!]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Max Dillon  wrote:

Yes, I'm quite sure. After two fills of M1 ATF, it shifts very nicely.

I'm baffled.  OK, time for a poll.  I know a half-dozen of the regular
posters and any number of lurkers have '87 300Ds and 300DTs.  Whose
cars start in first, and whose in second?

Flooring it from a stop is hard to "read" since the car will be
accelerating a lot harder.  The best way to tell is the 2-3-2 trick.
At a stop, from D, move the shifter all the way back into the 2
position, wait for it to engage, put it in 3, wait, then put it back
into 2.  This forces the transmission into first gear where it will
stay until you move the shifter.  Accelerate, and notice that the car
is far more sensitive to the pedal than usual, because you're starting
off in first (assuming you normally start in second).   When you feel
like it, move the shifter quickly from 2 to 3 and then back to 2
again.  The transmission will upshift to second and again stay there
until you move the lever. (Repeat process whenever you want to hear
that nice six-cylinder high-RPM roar.)

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] OT Politics

[Curt Raymond]

I was actually thinking the other day that we need an amendment to remove 
personhood from the rights a corporation has therefore remove all rights for 
corporate donations to political anythings.
While we're at it remove political action committees, the candidate can get 
his/her little donations from the people and thats it.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 08:20:55 -0400
From: Rolf 
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Politics
Message-ID: <4e4bb227.4010...@winmutt.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

We need to ban political (campaign?) contributions. I believe that
politicians should be paid at the median income of their district. Being
a politician should be a hardship (as it once was) not a privilege.

BTW this is where I argue my politics :
http://www.georgiasportbike.com/forumdisplay.php?37-LEPR

Despite the forum being for squids, the LEPR section is quite good. Lots
of good discussion, little flaming.

-Rolf

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> Should stink of fuel too while you're trying.

It does.

>
> Have you tried jumping the car off another while cranking?

Yep, no difference.

> How long is "a long time" cranking? A good battery ought to be able to crank 
> for a
> solid minute anyway.

It can go about fifteen seconds steadily before it begins to slow
down.  I'm guessing that means good compression (since otherwise the
starter wouldn't be fighting so hard to turn the engine)?  Or could it
mean clogged exhaust?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[buymbparts]

With a good battery you should be able to crank for at least 1 minute with no 
slow down. 


Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld

-Original Message-
From: Alex Chamberlain 
Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 09:56:13 
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> Should stink of fuel too while you're trying.

It does.

>
> Have you tried jumping the car off another while cranking?

Yep, no difference.

> How long is "a long time" cranking? A good battery ought to be able to crank 
> for a
> solid minute anyway.

It can go about fifteen seconds steadily before it begins to slow
down.  I'm guessing that means good compression (since otherwise the
starter wouldn't be fighting so hard to turn the engine)?  Or could it
mean clogged exhaust?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 10:00 AM,   wrote:
> With a good battery you should be able to crank for at least 1 minute with no 
> slow down.
>
>


OK, I think this is a critical point then.  It can only crank for 15
seconds before slowing down significantly.  Defective battery?  (It's
brand new, NAPA's mid-priced line.)  Defective charger?  (I'll try one
of my Battery Tenders instead of the Schumacher.)  What else?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Max Dillon]

15 seconds of cranking is too short by about 45 seconds. That could be your 
whole problem right there. 

When I do any fuel work on my 124s, sometimes I need three or more attempts 
that are each about 1 minute long, with 2 or 3 minutes of rest in between.

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Alex Chamberlain  wrote:

Thanks for all the help, guys! To address all the advice and questions at once:

- Jamie asked about the block heater. Great idea. It is an '87 so
has the factory block heater, and I have the cable, just never
bothered to hook it up. Right now the car is sitting on grass at an
angle, so it's not exactly the best place to jack it up to get
underneath and install the cable, but I'll see if I can tow it into my
driveway and do that.

- Jamie and Peter asked about holding the accelerator down all the
way, and about repeatedly glowing while cranking. I'm doing both,
essentially following a cold-weather start procedure. Hold the pedal
down, turn key to glow position, make sure the glow light is on, wait
until I hear the relay click off, crank for fifteen seconds or so,
turn the key off, glow again, crank again, etc. If the glow light is
on, doesn't that mean I'm getting power to the GPs? I will check for
voltage there, regardless. What's the easiest, safest way to bypass
the GP relay and power the GPs directly off the battery? Run a fat
wire from the positive terminal to the GP fuse?

- Loren and others mentioned air flow. The air filter's clean and
there's no sign of mouse or wasp activity on either side of it. As
far as the other end, I never heard of mice or anything else clogging
an exhaust, but I'll have someone else crank while I feel at the
tailpipe for air movement. There isn't any smoke coming out while
cranking, but I can definitely smell unburned Diesel Purge (which is
what I filled the new main filter with when I changed it).

- Walt and Peter mentioned battery condition. The battery is new and
it's been on a Schumacher charger which has both "slow charge" and
"jump start" modes. I've been leaving it on "slow charge" mode
overnight, then flipping the switch to "jump start" and leaving it
there for half a minute before trying to start the car. I've also
tried hooking up another running car with a healthy electrical system
so that the two batteries are working in parallel. That didn't seem
to make any difference.

- Peter suggested a dying starter that isn't turning quite fast
enough. The car sounds like it is cranking at the usual speed, but I
could be deceived, I guess. What's a good way to tell if the starter
is healthy, other than dropping $250 on a new one? Could I use a
non-contact tachometer on one of the pulleys while cranking? Harbor
freight has one for $30:
http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-photo-sensor-tachometer-66632.html

- Loren described a definitive test for air leaks in the fuel lines.
I'll do that.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[buymbparts]

Diesel's always want the very best battery you can buy. Spare no expense. 

 
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld

-Original Message-
From: Alex Chamberlain 
Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:04:51 
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 10:00 AM,   wrote:
> With a good battery you should be able to crank for at least 1 minute with no 
> slow down.
>
>


OK, I think this is a critical point then.  It can only crank for 15
seconds before slowing down significantly.  Defective battery?  (It's
brand new, NAPA's mid-priced line.)  Defective charger?  (I'll try one
of my Battery Tenders instead of the Schumacher.)  What else?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Max Dillon]

I think it means time for a new battery.

Can you take the battery to your FLAPS for a load test?

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Alex Chamberlain  wrote:

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> Should stink of fuel too while you're trying.

It does.

>
> Have you tried jumping the car off another while cranking?

Yep, no difference.

> How long is "a long time" cranking? A good battery ought to be able to crank 
> for a
> solid minute anyway.

It can go about fifteen seconds steadily before it begins to slow
down. I'm guessing that means good compression (since otherwise the
starter wouldn't be fighting so hard to turn the engine)? Or could it
mean clogged exhaust?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Rolf]

I will second that. At idle I think its 5cc per injection stroke. At 
400RPM its going to be considerably less.


-Rolf

On 08/17/2011 01:07 PM, Max Dillon wrote:

15 seconds of cranking is too short by about 45 seconds. That could be your 
whole problem right there.

When I do any fuel work on my 124s, sometimes I need three or more attempts 
that are each about 1 minute long, with 2 or 3 minutes of rest in between.

Max



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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Rolf]

Or just buy 2 and put them in parallel.

-Rolf

On 08/17/2011 01:11 PM, buymbpa...@gmail.com wrote:

Diesel's always want the very best battery you can buy. Spare no expense.


Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld

-Original Message-
From: Alex Chamberlain
Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:04:51
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 10:00 AM,  wrote:

With a good battery you should be able to crank for at least 1 minute with no 
slow down.




OK, I think this is a critical point then.  It can only crank for 15
seconds before slowing down significantly.  Defective battery?  (It's
brand new, NAPA's mid-priced line.)  Defective charger?  (I'll try one
of my Battery Tenders instead of the Schumacher.)  What else?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] OT computer still shuts down

[Ed Booher]

Remove the fan and heatsink from the processor. Scrape underside of heatsink
and clean as much gunk off processor as possible without damaging. Put on
new heat grease, reinstall heatsink. Fire it up and watch problems melt away
 no wait, that's just the grease.

EdB

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

> I thought yesterday the problem was with the XP drive, with it unplugged
> the vista drive fired up normally.  I did have it do the shut down in the
> middle of booting once after that.  This morning it started doing it again.
>  It would not boot at all, would just shut off.  Tried starting in in safe
> mode with networking, same thing, tried just plain safe mode, same thing.
>  Tried booting with last known good configuration, it started normally.
>  WTF?  I am not sure if I mentioned it or not but part of my testing was to
> try it with only 1 stick of memory, then the other.  It did the same thing
> with either so if its go something to do with that, both memory sticks are
> bad.  I also am running it with no power to that 2nd xp hard drive and also
> have the cd drive unplugged in case it was a power supply problem (which I
> dont think it is).  This is just a cheapie emachine computer I bought about
> 4 years ago.  Im leaning toward just buying a new one.
>
> --
> Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
> 99 E430, 99 E320. 97 E300, 95 E300, 93 300D, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 91
> 350SDL, 91 300D, 90 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2,  85 190D, 84 190D, 84
> 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D http://www.okiebenz.com
>
>
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
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Re: [MBZ] Do '87 300Ds start in first or second? [was: A triplet of cheap 300SDs in Portland!]

[Max Dillon]

I simply count the shifts (3) as I accelerate, leave the transmission in D. 

Max
-- 
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Alex Chamberlain  wrote:

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Max Dillon  wrote:
> Yes, I'm quite sure. After two fills of M1 ATF, it shifts very nicely.

I'm baffled. OK, time for a poll. I know a half-dozen of the regular
posters and any number of lurkers have '87 300Ds and 300DTs. Whose
cars start in first, and whose in second?

Flooring it from a stop is hard to "read" since the car will be
accelerating a lot harder. The best way to tell is the 2-3-2 trick.
At a stop, from D, move the shifter all the way back into the 2
position, wait for it to engage, put it in 3, wait, then put it back
into 2. This forces the transmission into first gear where it will
stay until you move the shifter. Accelerate, and notice that the car
is far more sensitive to the pedal than usual, because you're starting
off in first (assuming you normally start in second). When you feel
like it, move the shifter quickly from 2 to 3 and then back to 2
again. The transmission will upshift to second and again stay there
until you move the lever. (Repeat process whenever you want to hear
that nice six-cylinder high-RPM roar.)

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Mitch Haley]

buymbpa...@gmail.com wrote:
Diesel's always want the very best battery you can buy. Spare no expense. 


Is it a full size group 49 or similar, or one of those little modern things?

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Max Dillon]

7 per second * 60 seconds = 420 per minute.

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Alex Chamberlain  wrote:

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
> Do you have a digital sound recorder, or a laptop with a microphone in it?
> Record it, play it back at reduced speed, and count the compression strokes.
> Chugs per second x 20 = rpm on a four stroke six cylinder.
> 100rpm would be 5 chugs per second.
>

Brilliant! I just recorded it on my cell phone, loaded the sound file
into Audacity, and counted the peaks. I'm getting seven chugs per
second at the start of the cranking operation; after about fifteen
seconds of steady cranking it drops rapidly to four. Good battery and
starter, then?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Mitch Haley]

Max Dillon wrote:

7 per second * 60 seconds = 420 *pulses* per minute.


* 2 revs per pulse / 6 cylinders = 140 rpm.

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Curt Raymond]

I think it means a bad battery, should be 30+ seconds before it slows down 
noticeably. Could be a bad starter the slows down as it warms up?

Either way if it were my car and I could get a reliable helper (not always that 
easy) I'd be up for a tow start at this point.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 09:56:13 -0700
From: Alex Chamberlain 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> Should stink of fuel too while you're trying.

It does.

>
> Have you tried jumping the car off another while cranking?

Yep, no difference.

> How long is "a long time" cranking? A good battery ought to be able to crank 
> for a
> solid minute anyway.

It can go about fifteen seconds steadily before it begins to slow
down.  I'm guessing that means good compression (since otherwise the
starter wouldn't be fighting so hard to turn the engine)?  Or could it
mean clogged exhaust?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Curt Raymond]

Ooooh another thought, whats the rate on "slow" charge on your charger? On mine 
its 2a. Group 49 batteries at 900-1100cca but that doesn't tell us the long 
term capacity. I'm gonna guess, based on size its around 100ah so with your 
charger assuming you only run down to 75% thats still 12.5 hours to recharge. 
Could be on slow charge you're not getting enough time to get a full charge in.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:04:51 -0700
From: Alex Chamberlain 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 10:00 AM,   wrote:
> With a good battery you should be able to crank for at least 1 minute with no 
> slow down.
>
>


OK, I think this is a critical point then.  It can only crank for 15
seconds before slowing down significantly.  Defective battery?  (It's
brand new, NAPA's mid-priced line.)  Defective charger?  (I'll try one
of my Battery Tenders instead of the Schumacher.)  What else?

Alex


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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Rusty Cullens]

If it is a group 49 battery and it is new and does this, it is probably the 
starter. As voltage drops the amperage increases which will kill a good 
battery quickly. My vote is starter not battery but since when does 
my vote count.




Rusty Cullens
BuyMBparts, Inc.
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Tel/ 1-800-741-5252
Fax/ 770-454-9745
ICQ 427542441
AIM BuyMBparts

- Original Message - 
From: "Curt Raymond" 

To: "Diesel List" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever


I think it means a bad battery, should be 30+ seconds before it slows down 
noticeably. Could be a bad starter the slows down as it warms up?


Either way if it were my car and I could get a reliable helper (not always 
that easy) I'd be up for a tow start at this point.


-Curt

Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 09:56:13 -0700
From: Alex Chamberlain 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever
Message-ID:
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Curt Raymond  
wrote:

Should stink of fuel too while you're trying.


It does.



Have you tried jumping the car off another while cranking?


Yep, no difference.

How long is "a long time" cranking? A good battery ought to be able to 
crank for a

solid minute anyway.


It can go about fifteen seconds steadily before it begins to slow
down.  I'm guessing that means good compression (since otherwise the
starter wouldn't be fighting so hard to turn the engine)?  Or could it
mean clogged exhaust?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Mitch Haley]

I was wondering if it could be starter winding resistance going up with heat.

Mitch.


Curt Raymond wrote:

I think it means a bad battery, should be 30+ seconds before it slows down 
noticeably. Could be a bad starter the slows down as it warms up?



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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Mitch Haley]

Curt Raymond wrote:
Ooooh another thought, whats the rate on "slow" charge on your charger? On mine its 2a. Group 49 batteries at 900-1100cca but that doesn't tell us the long term capacity. 


I was thinking 135 minutes at 25A.
Interstate says 130 minutes for Megatron MT-49.
http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_eStore/content/product_info/auto_interstate_f.asp

Figure somewhere around 1500-2000 minutes at 2A for a full charge from near 
dead.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Jaime Kopchinski]

That's half way down, not all the way down!

I wouldn't concentrate on the GPs so much... in warm weather, especially
with a block heater, glowing until the relay clicks and cranking for a while
should be more than enough.

An addition, the engine should be turning over pretty quickly if its warmed
up by the heater.  If not, clean you battery ground cable on both sides.  If
its corroded, it makes a big difference.

Jaime


On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Alex Chamberlain
wrote:

> Thanks for all the help, guys!  To address all the advice and questions at
> once:
>
> - Jamie asked about the block heater.  Great idea.  It is an '87 so
> has the factory block heater, and I have the cable, just never
> bothered to hook it up.  Right now the car is sitting on grass at an
> angle, so it's not exactly the best place to jack it up to get
> underneath and install the cable, but I'll see if I can tow it into my
> driveway and do that.
>
> - Jamie and Peter asked about holding the accelerator down all the
> way, and about repeatedly glowing while cranking.  I'm doing both,
> essentially following a cold-weather start procedure.  Hold the pedal
> down, turn key to glow position, make sure the glow light is on, wait
> until I hear the relay click off, crank for fifteen seconds or so,
> turn the key off, glow again, crank again, etc.  If the glow light is
> on, doesn't that mean I'm getting power to the GPs?  I will check for
> voltage there, regardless.  What's the easiest, safest way to bypass
> the GP relay and power the GPs directly off the battery?  Run a fat
> wire from the positive terminal to the GP fuse?
>
> - Loren and others mentioned air flow.  The air filter's clean and
> there's no sign of mouse or wasp activity on either side of it.  As
> far as the other end, I never heard of mice or anything else clogging
> an exhaust, but I'll have someone else crank while I feel at the
> tailpipe for air movement.  There isn't any smoke coming out while
> cranking, but I can definitely smell unburned Diesel Purge (which is
> what I filled the new main filter with when I changed it).
>
> - Walt and Peter mentioned battery condition.  The battery is new and
> it's been on a Schumacher charger which has both "slow charge" and
> "jump start" modes.  I've been leaving it on "slow charge" mode
> overnight, then flipping the switch to "jump start" and leaving it
> there for half a minute before trying to start the car.  I've also
> tried hooking up another running car with a healthy electrical system
> so that the two batteries are working in parallel.   That didn't seem
> to make any difference.
>
> - Peter suggested a dying starter that isn't turning quite fast
> enough.  The car sounds like it is cranking at the usual speed, but I
> could be deceived, I guess.  What's a good way to tell if the starter
> is healthy, other than dropping $250 on a new one?  Could I use a
> non-contact tachometer on one of the pulleys while cranking?  Harbor
> freight has one for $30:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-photo-sensor-tachometer-66632.html
>
> - Loren described a definitive test for air leaks in the fuel lines.
> I'll do that.
>
> Alex
>
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[MBZ] Nobody has a 602 they are parting out.

[Rolf]

Im almost deperate enough to pay for new from Rusty. Anyone?

-Rolf

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Re: [MBZ] OT Politics

[degcoast]

Wow that would be cool fred-a TD @ chowdahQ- a first.
Dwight
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Fred Moir 
Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:46:37 
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Politics

Walt, et al.
This country is a Republic, not a democracy. per se. They are not bound 
to represent those that voted for them.
My wife bought me a tee shirt that says. "Yet, despite the look on my 
face, you're still talking".
I'll go away now.
Trying to get my 300TD an antique plate, so that I can drive it to Q's 
etc. Obligatory MB content.

Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred


On 8/17/2011 12:56 AM, Walt Zarnoch wrote:
> We need a true change, as the current political system, above even the town
> level in some instances, is so far out of touch with the voting public that
> elected them as to throw serious doubt on the actual "democracy" of our
> entire government.
>
> That congressional apointees can go fully against campaign promises with
> narry a slap on the wrist, vote how they please, and ignore the principles
> that they produced to get elected, is a clear indication that there is a
> fundamental flaw in our governmental model.
>
> Sadly, the old "everyone votes for everything" policy will never be
> feasable  to ennact, so we must therefore hope that we can obtaine, through
> some means, stricter guidlines towards following through on campaign
> promises (within reason of course).
>
> It's sad when our representatives (not every rep, but most) fall so out of
> touch with the base of people who elected them.
>
> One of the faults we must deal with I guess...
>
> Walt
> On Aug 17, 2011 12:41 AM, "Max Dillon"  wrote:
>
>> No, I don't think that class warfare is the way out of this mess, and I
>>  
> think taxing (penalizing) the most productive members of society to
> redistribute their wealth is a sure way to prolong it (and morally wrong as
> well). If Warren voluntarily put his money where his mouth is, stroked a
> check to our Treasury for few hundred million, I'd be impressed but I still
> would not agree. As I see it, liberals have tried a variation of "tax and
> spend" by spending first and putting off the tax part as long as possible.
> Now that chicken has come home to roost. Tea Party wants to behead, pluck
> and eat that chicken (and eat all its eggs to make sure no more chickens are
> coming later on), and I trend to agree. I'm sure your shocked to hear those
> words from me...
>
>> Max
>> --
>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>> andrew strasfogel  wrote:
>>
>> If you are a Buffet fan, then you must surely endores his idea of the
>>  
> super
>
>> rich paying more taxes.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Max Dillon> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> I like Warren Buffet's idea, would make a good constitutional amendment;
>>>
> if
>
>>> annual deficit exceeds 3% of GDP, all Senators&  and Congressman are
>>>
> exempt
>
>>> from running at the next election.
>>>
>>> Max
>>> --
>>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>
>>> G Mann  wrote:
>>>
>>> The time has come when calling yourself a R or D has little meaning. Both
>>> are so full of corruption and are harming America. Both parties are
>>>
> guilty.
>
>>> Time to "clean house".
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:40 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
>>>
>>>
 Walt Zarnoch wrote:

  
> R or D, they all seem to be out of touch with the general public.
>
>
 Scott Brown is no more R than John McCain. Which is a lot less R than
  
>>> JFK,
>>>
 but very, very R for modern day Massachusetts.

 Mitch.


 _
  
>>  
>>> **_
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>>>
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Re: [MBZ] A triplet of cheap 300SDs in Portland!

[degcoast]

Yes same with my 90 300D 2.5t. Starts in 2nd-can feel kickdown into 1st. My 
240D started in 4th-or so it seemed.
Dwight
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Curt Raymond 
Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 09:40:42 
To: Diesel List
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] A triplet of cheap 300SDs in Portland!

I think MB decided almost at random which models to start in 2nd. My '84 190D 
starts in 2nd BTW, its quite noticeable when it drops into 1st if you hit the 
kickdown switch.

-Curt

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:53:58 -0400
From: Max Dillon 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] A triplet of cheap 300SDs in Portland!
Message-ID: <3df7e127-eb36-4fa2-bec0-7e0732cec...@email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Yes, I'm quite sure. After two fills of M1 ATF, it shifts very nicely.

Stu Ritter's Bible says that only some of the 124 gas cars started in 2nd, if 
you can believe him.

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Alex Chamberlain  wrote:

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Max Dillon  wrote:
> Both of my 124s start in first; ' 87 300td and ' 95 E300.
>

Sure about the '87? Mine definitely starts in 2nd. There is a HUGE
difference in acceleration from a stop if I force it into 1st by
flooring it or doing the 2-3-2 trick. Works nicely to surprise
teenagers in souped-up Civics.

Alex


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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Luther's Benz]

I second the pull start at this point.  It will eliminate intake, exhaust, 
and fuel as the issue.  Then it could be electrical.

Luther

On Aug 17, 2011 12:32 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote: 

I think it means a bad battery, should be 30+ seconds before it slows down 
noticeably. Could be a bad starter the slows down as it warms up?



Either way if it were my car and I could get a reliable helper (not always that 
easy) I'd be up for a tow start at this point.



-Curt



Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 09:56:13 -0700

From: Alex Chamberlain 

To: Mercedes Discussion List 

Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

Message-ID:



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On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Curt Raymond  
wrote:

> Should stink of fuel too while you're trying.



It does.



>

> Have you tried jumping the car off another while cranking?



Yep, no difference.



> How long is "a long time" cranking? A good battery ought to be able to 
crank for a

> solid minute anyway.



It can go about fifteen seconds steadily before it begins to slow

down.  I'm guessing that means good compression (since otherwise the

starter wouldn't be fighting so hard to turn the engine)?  Or could it

mean clogged exhaust?



Alex



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Re: [MBZ] NOW: dangerous pull starts

[Luther's Benz]

Lame excuse :)

Luther

On Aug 17, 2011 11:40 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote: 

Luther's Benz wrote:

> Please explain how a pull start is dangerous to the car? 
 Mercedes specifically designed these robust diesels to be pull 
started if needed.



Rope towing is less safe crashwise than sitting in a parked car while turning a 
key?



Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] Nobody has a 602 they are parting out.

[astrasfogel]

What is a 602?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Rolf 
Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:07:24 
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: [MBZ] Nobody has a 602 they are parting out.

Im almost deperate enough to pay for new from Rusty. Anyone?

-Rolf

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Re: [MBZ] Nobody has a 602 they are parting out.

[Mitch Haley]

astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

What is a 602?


Oelmotor. 5 cylinder version of an OM603.
I forget what Rolf wanted, a used water hose?

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Re: [MBZ] NOW: dangerous pull starts

[Walt Zarnoch]

Mainly crash related, and it is more dangerous than checking the battery.

Yep, lame excuse, but eh.

Walt
On Aug 17, 2011 12:37 PM, "Luther's Benz" 
wrote:
> Please explain how a pull start is dangerous to the car?  Mercedes
specifically designed these robust diesels to be pull started if needed.
>
> Luther
>
> On Aug 16, 2011 11:31 PM, Walt Zarnoch  wrote:

>
> A pull start is more dangerous (to the car) than having the battery tested
>
> at the FLAPS.
>
>
>
> When in doubt, put the charger on the "boost" setting, wait 1 to 2
minutes,
>
> then start cranking.
>
>
>
> It's worked for me every time.
>
>
>
> Walt
>
>
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Fmiser]

> Curt Raymond wrote:

> I think it means a bad battery, should be 30+ seconds before
> it slows down noticeably. Could be a bad starter the slows
> down as it warms up?
> 
> Either way if it were my car and I could get a reliable helper
> (not always that easy) I'd be up for a tow start at this point.

I think I would rig 24V to spin the starter.

*CAUTION*  This requires being ABSOLUTELY SURE that none of the
24V gets to any other electrical system in the car.

But I don't have an easy time getting a reliable helper.

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Rolf]

Oh thats a pretty bad idea IMO. Much better off running in parallel for 
extended run time. Not to mention burning out the starter. The motoroam 
has a 24v starter its 2x the size of the 617 started which is already 
huge to me.


-Rolf

On 08/17/2011 03:20 PM, Fmiser wrote:

Curt Raymond wrote:
I think it means a bad battery, should be 30+ seconds before
it slows down noticeably. Could be a bad starter the slows
down as it warms up?

Either way if it were my car and I could get a reliable helper
(not always that easy) I'd be up for a tow start at this point.

I think I would rig 24V to spin the starter.

*CAUTION*  This requires being ABSOLUTELY SURE that none of the
24V gets to any other electrical system in the car.

But I don't have an easy time getting a reliable helper.

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Jaime Kopchinski]

Whoa whoa whoa... lets just take a step back now and look at whats going on
here.

This was a running car before the filter change, right?

Now, with a new filter, it doesn't run any more.

DO NOT tow start it, apply 24V, or any other "tricks".  This is not a car
that has sat for 20 years!!

Step back over the basics and review all your work.  Remove the filter,
check all the o rings, check the seals, make sure its full of fuel.

Something simple is wrong here.

Jaime


On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Fmiser  wrote:

> > Curt Raymond wrote:
>
> > I think it means a bad battery, should be 30+ seconds before
> > it slows down noticeably. Could be a bad starter the slows
> > down as it warms up?
> >
> > Either way if it were my car and I could get a reliable helper
> > (not always that easy) I'd be up for a tow start at this point.
>
> I think I would rig 24V to spin the starter.
>
> *CAUTION*  This requires being ABSOLUTELY SURE that none of the
> 24V gets to any other electrical system in the car.
>
> But I don't have an easy time getting a reliable helper.
>
> --   Philip
>
> ___
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Nobody has a 602 they are parting out.

[Rolf]

http://jeemu.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BMW E21 (diesel)/IMG_2691.JPG/full

U tube from tstat housing to aux water pump.

-Rolf

On 08/17/2011 03:12 PM, Mitch Haley wrote:

astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

What is a 602?


Oelmotor. 5 cylinder version of an OM603.
I forget what Rolf wanted, a used water hose?

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Dieselhead]

Thanks for all the help, guys!  To address all the advice and 
questions at once:


- Jamie asked about the block heater.  Great idea.  It is an '87 so
has the factory block heater, and I have the cable, just never
bothered to hook it up.  Right now the car is sitting on grass at an
angle, so it's not exactly the best place to jack it up to get
underneath and install the cable, but I'll see if I can tow it into my
driveway and do that.

- Jamie and Peter asked about holding the accelerator down all the
way, and about repeatedly glowing while cranking.  I'm doing both,
essentially following a cold-weather start procedure.  Hold the pedal
down, turn key to glow position, make sure the glow light is on, wait
until I hear the relay click off, crank for fifteen seconds or so,
turn the key off, glow again, crank again, etc.  If the glow light is
on, doesn't that mean I'm getting power to the GPs?  I will check for
voltage there, regardless.  What's the easiest, safest way to bypass
the GP relay and power the GPs directly off the battery?  Run a fat
wire from the positive terminal to the GP fuse?


Just check for voltage at the GP terminals.  If it is not 11.5V then 
you have a problem.  It is more likely on or off.  If there is no 
voltage, then change the fuse or relay.




- Loren and others mentioned air flow.  The air filter's clean and
there's no sign of mouse or wasp activity on either side of it.  As
far as the other end, I never heard of mice or anything else clogging
an exhaust, but I'll have someone else crank while I feel at the
tailpipe for air movement.  There isn't any smoke coming out while
cranking, but I can definitely smell unburned Diesel Purge (which is
what I filled the new main filter with when I changed it).


No smoke is a bad sign.  Seems like lack of fuel.  Back to checking 
for bubbles on the discharge side of the fuel filter.




- Walt and Peter mentioned battery condition.  The battery is new and
it's been on a Schumacher charger which has both "slow charge" and
"jump start" modes.  I've been leaving it on "slow charge" mode
overnight, then flipping the switch to "jump start" and leaving it
there for half a minute before trying to start the car.  I've also
tried hooking up another running car with a healthy electrical system
so that the two batteries are working in parallel.   That didn't seem
to make any difference.

- Peter suggested a dying starter that isn't turning quite fast
enough.  The car sounds like it is cranking at the usual speed, but I
could be deceived, I guess.  What's a good way to tell if the starter
is healthy, other than dropping $250 on a new one?  Could I use a
non-contact tachometer on one of the pulleys while cranking?  Harbor
freight has one for $30:
http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-photo-sensor-tachometer-66632.html

- Loren described a definitive test for air leaks in the fuel lines.
I'll do that.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] OT - gmail & keyboard arrow keys

[Mountain Man]

> What is up with gmail and inability to use keyboard arrow keys?

Arrow keys work today...
The next gmail issue to solve is the yellow band across many email to
this list that tell me the email is potential phishing.
mao

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[MBZ] Onstar on MB

[WILTON]

'Just noticed that GM's OnStar system is now available for installation on 
other vehicles; entire system seems to be in a replacement mirror.  MB 124's 
and 126's are not shown as being "compatible," likely 'cause OnStar engineers 
haven't considered it.  My 124 and 126 don't have any automatic system that 
would be "compromised" or affected by OnStar.  I probably won't install it; 
cell phone works fine for me, but SWMBO won't carry hers.  The analog phone 
installed in the 126 when new worked great for SWMBO while it was in service, 
but analog was discontinued a few years ago.  I'd feel more comfortable, 
especially when SWMBO is driving alone, if the cars had a "built-in" emergency 
com system.
Like I said, I probably won't do it, but I'd bet I can - it's at least 
interesting to consider.  Anybody know of one of these systems, or the like, 
installed on a 124 or 126?

Wilton   
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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Jaime Kopchinski  wrote:
> Whoa whoa whoa... lets just take a step back now and look at whats going on
> here.
> This was a running car before the filter change, right?
> Now, with a new filter, it doesn't run any more.

It was running a year ago. Loren's right that I should've tried to
start it before changing the filters, but no use crying over spilt
diesel.  The basic facts are that it "ran fine when parked" as the
expression goes, I changed the filters, put in a new battery, and now
it won't start.

Sounds like the leading theories are:

- Bad or not fully charged battery---It's new, and I'll leave it on
the charger for two days before I try again.

- GPs not getting power---easy check.

- Not cranking long enough---I tried cranking for longer than 15
seconds.  The engine slowed down at around 20 seconds, but then
started catching periodically just like it has been before (firing two
or three times and then just cranking).  At about 30 seconds I quit
because there was the unmistakable smell of overheated wiring coming
from the driver's side of the engine near the firewall---isn't that
where the starter is?  If I try again with a battery that is fully
charged, and the starter still slows down noticeably after 15 seconds,
then does that definitively mean the starter is failing (increased
current draw as it heats up)?

- Air leaks, meaning no fuel delivery to injectors despite seeing fuel
at the return line on the filter and at the hard lines when either is
loosened---I can smell the exhaust after cranking a while, but it
really doesn't smoke to speak of, although I find unburned diesel
smoke is harder to see on a warm clear day.  I will take out the fuel
filter center bolt and make sure that the o-rings are where they
should be, and also check for air leaks elsewhere.

Could airflow be obstructed on the exhaust side?  I don't know how I
would begin to check for that beyond sticking a wire or something up
the tailpipe to dislodge wasp or mouse nests.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] OT - gmail & keyboard arrow keys

[Tim C]

> The next gmail issue to solve is the yellow band across many email to
> this list that tell me the email is potential phishing.

Not gonna happen, that is there because the sender is claiming to be a Gmail
user but the transmitting server is not Google's.

It bugged me until I figured it out, now I rather prefer it.

Later,
-Tim
Took the cluster out of the SDL today, but I can't remember why...
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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Luther's Benz]

If you smell warm wiring at 30seconds, something is loose or worn in the 
wiring.  Check ALL connections from the battery to the starter.  Do 
this before condemning the starter

Luther

On Aug 17, 2011 5:40 PM, Alex Chamberlain  
wrote: 

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Jaime Kopchinski  
wrote:

> Whoa whoa whoa... lets just take a step back now and look at whats going on

> here.

> This was a running car before the filter change, right?

> Now, with a new filter, it doesn't run any more.



It was running a year ago. Loren's right that I should've tried to

start it before changing the filters, but no use crying over spilt

diesel.  The basic facts are that it "ran fine when parked" as the

expression goes, I changed the filters, put in a new battery, and now

it won't start.



Sounds like the leading theories are:



- Bad or not fully charged battery---It's new, and I'll leave it on

the charger for two days before I try again.



- GPs not getting power---easy check.



- Not cranking long enough---I tried cranking for longer than 15

seconds.  The engine slowed down at around 20 seconds, but then

started catching periodically just like it has been before (firing two

or three times and then just cranking).  At about 30 seconds I quit

because there was the unmistakable smell of overheated wiring coming

from the driver's side of the engine near the firewall---isn't that

where the starter is?  If I try again with a battery that is fully

charged, and the starter still slows down noticeably after 15 seconds,

then does that definitively mean the starter is failing (increased

current draw as it heats up)?



- Air leaks, meaning no fuel delivery to injectors despite seeing fuel

at the return line on the filter and at the hard lines when either is

loosened---I can smell the exhaust after cranking a while, but it

really doesn't smoke to speak of, although I find unburned diesel

smoke is harder to see on a warm clear day.  I will take out the fuel

filter center bolt and make sure that the o-rings are where they

should be, and also check for air leaks elsewhere.



Could airflow be obstructed on the exhaust side?  I don't know how I

would begin to check for that beyond sticking a wire or something up

the tailpipe to dislodge wasp or mouse nests.



Alex



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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Luther's Benz  wrote:
> If you smell warm wiring at 30seconds, something is loose or worn in the 
> wiring.
> Check ALL connections from the battery to the starter.
> Do this before condemning the starter

Ugh.  OK, I'll drag out the electrical diagrams.  But if I see battery
voltage at the starter terminals when cranking, isn't that a pretty
sure check?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Hendrik & Fay]

It has been suggested to by pass the fuel tank and filter by using a 
clean container and a piece of fuel hose.

Whether this has been done or not, I do not know.
Perhaps the shut off mechanism is stuck.

Hendrik
who is off to pick up a machine from machine hospital

Jaime Kopchinski wrote:

Whoa whoa whoa... lets just take a step back now and look at whats going on
here.

This was a running car before the filter change, right?

Now, with a new filter, it doesn't run any more.

DO NOT tow start it, apply 24V, or any other "tricks".  This is not a car
that has sat for 20 years!!

Step back over the basics and review all your work.  Remove the filter,
check all the o rings, check the seals, make sure its full of fuel.

Something simple is wrong here.

Jaime

  




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Re: [MBZ] OT computer still shuts down

[LWB250]

Whenever asked, I always try to steer people away from the massive laptops, be 
they Apple or PC.  The initial thought is, "Wow, how great would that be, to 
have a 17" screen!"  After they lug one of those beasts around for a couple of 
days the luster wears off.  They're heavy and they don't fit in anything easily.

Seems like a 14" - 15" is just about right, at least so I've found.

The 12" PowerBook was very popular in it's day, so much so that the resale on 
that one model is still significantly higher than it's fellow machines of the 
same vintage.  The size vs. power ratio was very good for that machine in it's 
day, surprising that Apple retired it before the other models in the line.

Dan



From: Peter Frederick 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT computer still shuts down

I love apple OS (minus the "do it Steve's way stuff), and their hardware is top 
rate, if sometimes odd.

I found that I can't use a 17" laptop -- to big, too heavy, and I cannot see 
the screen on the 13" ones, so I'm stuck with 15", sorta half way to what I 
want.

You can always attach a larger monitor, it's easy on a Mac.

Peter

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[MBZ] Fwd: 1990 Mercedes 190 - $1000 (Walpole)

[Fred Moir]

Dreamer.
Not mine, etc.

Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred



 Original Message 
Subject:1990 Mercedes 190 - $1000 (Walpole)
Date:   Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:30:23 -0700 (PDT)
From:   fred.s...@yahoo.com
To: fred.s...@verizon.net



fred.s...@yahoo.com has forwarded you this craigslist.org posting.

Please see below for more information.

Visit the posting at 
http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/cto/2550657592.html to contact the 
person who posted this.





   1990 Mercedes 190

Date: 2011-08-16, 7:54PM

This is a nice little car
Straight 6
5 speed
new tires
new brakes
was my daily driver
have clean title
can send pics

THE BAD
Front left Strut Tower is rusted off
Can not be driven without repair
AS IS CONDITION
BEST OFFER

   * Location: Walpole
   * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other
 commercial interests

Original URL: http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/cto/2550657592.html



/this craigslist posting was forwarded to you by someone using our 
email-a-friend feature - if you want to prevent these, please go to:
/http://www.craigslist.org/cgi-bin/te/U2FsdGVkX184NTk5ODU5OW0-3z10leEg21fmnQ8Hg9oyjdH_9cWBBe7PgIoRpkhF-nzev08PXt1FEk1EIC55Vg 




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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Jim Cathey]

What's the easiest, safest way to bypass
the GP relay and power the GPs directly off the battery?  Run a fat
wire from the positive terminal to the GP fuse?


Isn't a good one.  That fuse is 'hot' all the time.  The
internal relay contacts are what you'd need to assert.


What's a good way to tell if the starter
is healthy, other than dropping $250 on a new one?


Measure the current draw, a clamp-on DC ammeter is very
handy for these kinds of questions.  Compare to known
good car.

I'd pull-start it at this point.  Amazing how a bat to the
head like that gets the engine's attention.  If _that_ won't
do it you know you have a real problem, and it saves all kinds
of wear and tear on the battery and starter.

My brother and I dragged our Moline tractor for a mile or two
trying to pull-start it.  Which it did, after we put gas in it!

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Jim Cathey]

It can only crank for 15
seconds before slowing down significantly.  Defective battery?  (It's
brand new, NAPA's mid-priced line.)


Group 49?  15 seconds is sucky.


Defective charger?  (I'll try one
of my Battery Tenders instead of the Schumacher.)  What else?


Defective starter?  Can measure current draw (DC clamp-on ammeter)
to determine this.  Bad heavy wiring, either power or ground strap?
Can measure voltage drop between battery post and other end at starter
while starting, the drop in the wires thus measured should be small.
Also measure battery voltage while starting.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] OT computer still shuts down

[Peter Frederick]

I bought a 12" PB for my niece for college -- she loves it.  Easy to  
carry, light, and she still has young eyes and can see the screen  
well.  Great for dragging around to classes, and easier to use for  
writing since the screen is longer rather than wider.


I still drag around a TiBook (1 GHz), and other that being a bit slow  
by modern standards it works great for me.  Getting a bit beaten up,  
but it works fine.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Peter Frederick]

That starter will draw 900 amps on a cold engine -- if the battery  
won't crank it full speed for more than 15 sec it's not big enough.


As Jim said, but really must be a new series 49 battery.  Others will  
fit, but you need the deep cycle characteristics and high current  
draw capability of a series 49 to start one up.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Tim C]

I wouldn't go too far with electrical detail, if it's a new battery of
proper size I would think it will be obvious - starter wire to chassis or
the like.  I would bet you can feel a hot wire, then figure out where it's
shorting.

Another possibility - I had a bad battery connection in my Volvo, it was
enough for low currents but would barely conduct at high.  Messing around
with the battery cables caused it to start, eventually I pulled back the
insulation and the wire fell in half with just a few stands remaining.  Only
real clue was that the wire was easy to bend at a certain point.  A clue
might be if the battery was at a pretty high voltage after a marathon
starting session.

Best,
-Tim
On Aug 17, 2011 7:38 PM, "Alex Chamberlain"  wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Luther's Benz 
wrote:
>> If you smell warm wiring at 30seconds, something is loose or worn in the
wiring.
>> Check ALL connections from the battery to the starter.
>> Do this before condemning the starter
>
> Ugh. OK, I'll drag out the electrical diagrams. But if I see battery
> voltage at the starter terminals when cranking, isn't that a pretty
> sure check?
>
> Alex
>
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Re: [MBZ] Do '87 300Ds start in first or second? [was: A triplet of cheap 300SDs in Portland!]

[OK Don]

Yes - They idle in second, then immediatly shift into first as you
accelerate from a stop. i've adjusted the modulator on the hard side on the
assumption that the bands will last a little longer, and because I like
crisp shifts. The result is that the shifts are easier to count -- all four
of them.
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

>
> Newer cars do not operate the way a 1979-1980 300SD does, but don't they
> preserve the 'idle in 2nd, start in 1st' concept, and fail into 'start in
> 2nd' when something goes wrong?
>

-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] OT Politics

[OK Don]

AMEN, brother!  We have the best government money can buy - and only the
govenment bought by money. The common (not rich) man has no voice (because
he believes and votes for what he sees on TV).

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> I was actually thinking the other day that we need an amendment to remove
> personhood from the rights a corporation has therefore remove all rights for
> corporate donations to political anythings.
> While we're at it remove political action committees, the candidate can get
> his/her little donations from the people and thats it.
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 08:20:55 -0400
> From: Rolf 
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Politics
> Message-ID: <4e4bb227.4010...@winmutt.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> We need to ban political (campaign?) contributions. I believe that
> politicians should be paid at the median income of their district. Being
> a politician should be a hardship (as it once was) not a privilege.
>
> BTW this is where I argue my politics :
> http://www.georgiasportbike.com/forumdisplay.php?37-LEPR
>
> Despite the forum being for squids, the LEPR section is quite good. Lots
> of good discussion, little flaming.
>
> -Rolf
>
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-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[OK Don]

I've had starting problems due to a poor connection on the chassis end of
the grounding strap between the engine and the chassis, but this was on the
115 chassis cars. I cleaned and re-assembled with new bolts (on the chassis
end), and added a second strap on the other side of the engine. Never had a
problem again. YMMV.

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:50 PM, Tim C  wrote:

> I wouldn't go too far with electrical detail, if it's a new battery of
> proper size I would think it will be obvious - starter wire to chassis or
> the like.  I would bet you can feel a hot wire, then figure out where it's
> shorting.
>
> Another possibility - I had a bad battery connection in my Volvo, it was
> enough for low currents but would barely conduct at high.  Messing around
> with the battery cables caused it to start, eventually I pulled back the
> insulation and the wire fell in half with just a few stands remaining.
>  Only
> real clue was that the wire was easy to bend at a certain point.  A clue
> might be if the battery was at a pretty high voltage after a marathon
> starting session.
>
> Best,
> -Tim
> On Aug 17, 2011 7:38 PM, "Alex Chamberlain" 
> wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Luther's Benz 
> wrote:
> >> If you smell warm wiring at 30seconds, something is loose or worn in the
> wiring.
> >> Check ALL connections from the battery to the starter.
> >> Do this before condemning the starter
> >
> > Ugh. OK, I'll drag out the electrical diagrams. But if I see battery
> > voltage at the starter terminals when cranking, isn't that a pretty
> > sure check?
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] 603 filter change, cranking forever

[Fmiser]

> Alex Chamberlain wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Luther's Benz
>  wrote:
> > If you smell warm wiring at 30seconds, something is loose or
> > worn in the wiring. Check ALL connections from the battery
> > to the starter. Do this before condemning the starter
> 
> Ugh.  OK, I'll drag out the electrical diagrams.  But if I see
> battery voltage at the starter terminals when cranking, isn't
> that a pretty sure check?

The voltage _drop_ across the battery-to-starter cable is a good
indication of current draw, which can be a clue for starter
condition.

I haven't ever tested a good 60x engine, so I don't know what is
normal for that system.

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] A OT request

[Hendrik & Fay]

It's to retain soil, sort of a decorative thing to create a garden bed 
in our front yard.

Will post some pictures when I get a round to it.

Hendrik
who is off to the round to it shop

andrew strasfogel wrote:

What are you trying to retain with that wall?
  


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[MBZ] We all live in a yellow G machine

[Hendrik & Fay]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mercedes-Benz-300-GD-not-Land-Cruiser-Hilux-Triton-/140589740400?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item20bbcd3170
See, yellow is not so bad.

Hendrik
who hasn't got the money for more toys

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Re: [MBZ] We all live in a yellow G machine

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Hendrik & Fay  wrote:
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mercedes-Benz-300-GD-not-Land-Cruiser-Hilux-Triton-/140589740400?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item20bbcd3170
> See, yellow is not so bad.

Reserve not met at AU$4500!  That's about US$5K.  Amazing.  That truck
could easily fetch four times that price on the West Coast if the
steering wheel were on the correct side.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] We all live in a yellow G machine

[Walt Zarnoch]

Possibly it may fetch more, some people like RHD in the US!

Walt

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 1:48 AM, Alex Chamberlain
 wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Hendrik & Fay  
> wrote:
>> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mercedes-Benz-300-GD-not-Land-Cruiser-Hilux-Triton-/140589740400?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item20bbcd3170
>> See, yellow is not so bad.
>
> Reserve not met at AU$4500!  That's about US$5K.  Amazing.  That truck
> could easily fetch four times that price on the West Coast if the
> steering wheel were on the correct side.
>
> Alex
>
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Re: [MBZ] We all live in a yellow G machine

[Hendrik & Fay]

Yes perhaps but it's bright yellow and not POS brown.
Perhaps those rappers will buy it, cut it into pieces and then auction 
it to benefit the poor of Africa?


Hendrik
whose Nissan Patrol was that shade of yellow and I still miss it :'(

Walt Zarnoch wrote:

Possibly it may fetch more, some people like RHD in the US!

Walt

  

  



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[MBZ] OM616 oil pump

[Ed Booher]

Is there anyway to verify the pump is properly circulating oil and not  
gummed up sucking on sludge? Without tearing the engine down?


EdB



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Re: [MBZ] We all live in a yellow G machine

[G Mann]

Shipping might be a bit of an issue for me...

Better I just move to OZ.. couldn't dare be seen here in that yellow... lol

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 11:19 PM, Hendrik & Fay wrote:

> Yes perhaps but it's bright yellow and not POS brown.
> Perhaps those rappers will buy it, cut it into pieces and then auction it
> to benefit the poor of Africa?
>
> Hendrik
> whose Nissan Patrol was that shade of yellow and I still miss it :'(
>
>
> Walt Zarnoch wrote:
>
>> Possibly it may fetch more, some people like RHD in the US!
>>
>> Walt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __**_
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