Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

[MG]

Can't tell from your description.

1. Assuming that he followed the outlined procedure and you 
watched as the cam turned to the correct point and it was on the 
compression stroke then we go to--


2. When you say he 'rolled it over' What does that mean? It's 
kind of like going to buy a new car and the salesman tells you he 
is giving you a great price. Do you then just sign the papers or 
do you find out what that price is first? How far did he turn the 
engine? Roll over does not quantify anything so I can't tell from 
that when the fuel actually started to 'drip' not 'spurt' two 
totally different things. The start of injection is a very 
specific setting. If he didn't have the actual drip tube then a 
very close watch has to be kept on the actual level of the fuel 
in the top of the connection on the fuel pump. You are looking 
for a very small increase of the level of fuel in that 
connection. By the time you see fuel squirting out of the port 
you are way past the actual start of injection and therefor out 
of time if the engine is now at the point where the injection 
should start.


From what I read and until I get the answers to the above 
questions I have to say It will not work as it will be way out of 
time. Sorry that I have to say that but timing is a very specific 
thing and it's hard enough to get it right when you are right 
there, to tell if it's right from a general description is 
impossible.


Manfred

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 17:11:38 -0400
From: Michael Esh 


Thanks Manfred.  I stopped by the shop today and watched him set 
it up with #1 on the compression stroke then roll the engine over 
and watched the fuel spurt out and the timing mark stop at 24 
degrees.  Does this mean it is in the proper range?   The weird 
thing is the mechanic had supposedly  installed the pump at 180 
opposite.  He said he did this by setting up the pump normally 
and setting engine at 180.  He was then going put things back 
together and give it a try.  I had to leave at that point

Mike


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Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

[Michael Esh]

Thanks Manfred,
He used an engine starter button to turn the engine over and we did not see the 
welling up, only spurting.  I will pass along this information to him and we 
sill start again on Monday.  My lack of knowledge as well as his is become 
glaringly apparent.  I will be talking to the owner on Monday about this.  Is 
there a manual or specific instructions about how to time the pump that I need 
to purchase and or read and take to the mechanic.
Thanks for everyone's patience in helping me with this.
Mike
 
On Jul 27, 2013, at 6:35 AM, MG wrote:

> Can't tell from your description.
> 
> 1. Assuming that he followed the outlined procedure and you watched as the 
> cam turned to the correct point and it was on the compression stroke then we 
> go to--
> 
> 2. When you say he 'rolled it over' What does that mean? It's kind of like 
> going to buy a new car and the salesman tells you he is giving you a great 
> price. Do you then just sign the papers or do you find out what that price is 
> first? How far did he turn the engine? Roll over does not quantify anything 
> so I can't tell from that when the fuel actually started to 'drip' not 
> 'spurt' two totally different things. The start of injection is a very 
> specific setting. If he didn't have the actual drip tube then a very close 
> watch has to be kept on the actual level of the fuel in the top of the 
> connection on the fuel pump. You are looking for a very small increase of the 
> level of fuel in that connection. By the time you see fuel squirting out of 
> the port you are way past the actual start of injection and therefor out of 
> time if the engine is now at the point where the injection should start.
> 
> From what I read and until I get the answers to the above questions I have to 
> say It will not work as it will be way out of time. Sorry that I have to say 
> that but timing is a very specific thing and it's hard enough to get it right 
> when you are right there, to tell if it's right from a general description is 
> impossible.
> 
> Manfred
> 
> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 17:11:38 -0400
> From: Michael Esh 
> 
> 
> Thanks Manfred.  I stopped by the shop today and watched him set it up with 
> #1 on the compression stroke then roll the engine over and watched the fuel 
> spurt out and the timing mark stop at 24 degrees.  Does this mean it is in 
> the proper range?   The weird thing is the mechanic had supposedly  installed 
> the pump at 180 opposite.  He said he did this by setting up the pump 
> normally and setting engine at 180.  He was then going put things back 
> together and give it a try.  I had to leave at that point
> Mike
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

[Michael Canfield]

There are very specific procedures and if the mechanic does not know them
then he is blowing smoke when he tells you he has done the job right in the
past.  There is no way he can turn the engine with the starter and get an
accurate idea of when fuel delivery starts, NOT when it spurts out.  He
needs to be turning the engine with a bar and socket on the crankshaft so
he can see exactly when fuel delivery starts.

Sounds like you need a mechanic that has a clue what he is doing instead of
a parts replacer doing a bunch of guesswork.

Mike
On Jul 27, 2013 7:41 AM, "Michael Esh"  wrote:

> Thanks Manfred,
> He used an engine starter button to turn the engine over and we did not
> see the welling up, only spurting.  I will pass along this information to
> him and we sill start again on Monday.  My lack of knowledge as well as his
> is become glaringly apparent.  I will be talking to the owner on Monday
> about this.  Is there a manual or specific instructions about how to time
> the pump that I need to purchase and or read and take to the mechanic.
> Thanks for everyone's patience in helping me with this.
> Mike
>
> On Jul 27, 2013, at 6:35 AM, MG wrote:
>
> > Can't tell from your description.
> >
> > 1. Assuming that he followed the outlined procedure and you watched as
> the cam turned to the correct point and it was on the compression stroke
> then we go to--
> >
> > 2. When you say he 'rolled it over' What does that mean? It's kind of
> like going to buy a new car and the salesman tells you he is giving you a
> great price. Do you then just sign the papers or do you find out what that
> price is first? How far did he turn the engine? Roll over does not quantify
> anything so I can't tell from that when the fuel actually started to 'drip'
> not 'spurt' two totally different things. The start of injection is a very
> specific setting. If he didn't have the actual drip tube then a very close
> watch has to be kept on the actual level of the fuel in the top of the
> connection on the fuel pump. You are looking for a very small increase of
> the level of fuel in that connection. By the time you see fuel squirting
> out of the port you are way past the actual start of injection and therefor
> out of time if the engine is now at the point where the injection should
> start.
> >
> > From what I read and until I get the answers to the above questions I
> have to say It will not work as it will be way out of time. Sorry that I
> have to say that but timing is a very specific thing and it's hard enough
> to get it right when you are right there, to tell if it's right from a
> general description is impossible.
> >
> > Manfred
> >
> > Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 17:11:38 -0400
> > From: Michael Esh 
> >
> >
> > Thanks Manfred.  I stopped by the shop today and watched him set it up
> with #1 on the compression stroke then roll the engine over and watched the
> fuel spurt out and the timing mark stop at 24 degrees.  Does this mean it
> is in the proper range?   The weird thing is the mechanic had supposedly
>  installed the pump at 180 opposite.  He said he did this by setting up the
> pump normally and setting engine at 180.  He was then going put things back
> together and give it a try.  I had to leave at that point
> > Mike
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

[Mike Esh]

Yes, I am coming to that conclusion myself. My faith in a competent mechanic 
has faded away. 

Michael E. Esh
231-286-2344


On Jul 27, 2013, at 9:15 AM, Michael Canfield  wrote:

> There are very specific procedures and if the mechanic does not know them
> then he is blowing smoke when he tells you he has done the job right in the
> past.  There is no way he can turn the engine with the starter and get an
> accurate idea of when fuel delivery starts, NOT when it spurts out.  He
> needs to be turning the engine with a bar and socket on the crankshaft so
> he can see exactly when fuel delivery starts.
> 
> Sounds like you need a mechanic that has a clue what he is doing instead of
> a parts replacer doing a bunch of guesswork.
> 
> Mike
> On Jul 27, 2013 7:41 AM, "Michael Esh"  wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Manfred,
>> He used an engine starter button to turn the engine over and we did not
>> see the welling up, only spurting.  I will pass along this information to
>> him and we sill start again on Monday.  My lack of knowledge as well as his
>> is become glaringly apparent.  I will be talking to the owner on Monday
>> about this.  Is there a manual or specific instructions about how to time
>> the pump that I need to purchase and or read and take to the mechanic.
>> Thanks for everyone's patience in helping me with this.
>> Mike
>> 
>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 6:35 AM, MG wrote:
>> 
>>> Can't tell from your description.
>>> 
>>> 1. Assuming that he followed the outlined procedure and you watched as
>> the cam turned to the correct point and it was on the compression stroke
>> then we go to--
>>> 
>>> 2. When you say he 'rolled it over' What does that mean? It's kind of
>> like going to buy a new car and the salesman tells you he is giving you a
>> great price. Do you then just sign the papers or do you find out what that
>> price is first? How far did he turn the engine? Roll over does not quantify
>> anything so I can't tell from that when the fuel actually started to 'drip'
>> not 'spurt' two totally different things. The start of injection is a very
>> specific setting. If he didn't have the actual drip tube then a very close
>> watch has to be kept on the actual level of the fuel in the top of the
>> connection on the fuel pump. You are looking for a very small increase of
>> the level of fuel in that connection. By the time you see fuel squirting
>> out of the port you are way past the actual start of injection and therefor
>> out of time if the engine is now at the point where the injection should
>> start.
>>> 
>>> From what I read and until I get the answers to the above questions I
>> have to say It will not work as it will be way out of time. Sorry that I
>> have to say that but timing is a very specific thing and it's hard enough
>> to get it right when you are right there, to tell if it's right from a
>> general description is impossible.
>>> 
>>> Manfred
>>> 
>>> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 17:11:38 -0400
>>> From: Michael Esh 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks Manfred.  I stopped by the shop today and watched him set it up
>> with #1 on the compression stroke then roll the engine over and watched the
>> fuel spurt out and the timing mark stop at 24 degrees.  Does this mean it
>> is in the proper range?   The weird thing is the mechanic had supposedly
>> installed the pump at 180 opposite.  He said he did this by setting up the
>> pump normally and setting engine at 180.  He was then going put things back
>> together and give it a try.  I had to leave at that point
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

[Michael Canfield]

So, how close to Mike is the nearest lister that has a clue about how to
get this thing running?  Sounds like maybe he just needs a day of fiddling
around by someone who knows just how precise Diesel timing needs to be.

Mike
On Jul 27, 2013 9:37 AM, "Mike Esh"  wrote:

> Yes, I am coming to that conclusion myself. My faith in a competent
> mechanic has faded away.
>
> Michael E. Esh
> 231-286-2344
>
>
> On Jul 27, 2013, at 9:15 AM, Michael Canfield  wrote:
>
> > There are very specific procedures and if the mechanic does not know them
> > then he is blowing smoke when he tells you he has done the job right in
> the
> > past.  There is no way he can turn the engine with the starter and get an
> > accurate idea of when fuel delivery starts, NOT when it spurts out.  He
> > needs to be turning the engine with a bar and socket on the crankshaft so
> > he can see exactly when fuel delivery starts.
> >
> > Sounds like you need a mechanic that has a clue what he is doing instead
> of
> > a parts replacer doing a bunch of guesswork.
> >
> > Mike
> > On Jul 27, 2013 7:41 AM, "Michael Esh"  wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks Manfred,
> >> He used an engine starter button to turn the engine over and we did not
> >> see the welling up, only spurting.  I will pass along this information
> to
> >> him and we sill start again on Monday.  My lack of knowledge as well as
> his
> >> is become glaringly apparent.  I will be talking to the owner on Monday
> >> about this.  Is there a manual or specific instructions about how to
> time
> >> the pump that I need to purchase and or read and take to the mechanic.
> >> Thanks for everyone's patience in helping me with this.
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> On Jul 27, 2013, at 6:35 AM, MG wrote:
> >>
> >>> Can't tell from your description.
> >>>
> >>> 1. Assuming that he followed the outlined procedure and you watched as
> >> the cam turned to the correct point and it was on the compression stroke
> >> then we go to--
> >>>
> >>> 2. When you say he 'rolled it over' What does that mean? It's kind of
> >> like going to buy a new car and the salesman tells you he is giving you
> a
> >> great price. Do you then just sign the papers or do you find out what
> that
> >> price is first? How far did he turn the engine? Roll over does not
> quantify
> >> anything so I can't tell from that when the fuel actually started to
> 'drip'
> >> not 'spurt' two totally different things. The start of injection is a
> very
> >> specific setting. If he didn't have the actual drip tube then a very
> close
> >> watch has to be kept on the actual level of the fuel in the top of the
> >> connection on the fuel pump. You are looking for a very small increase
> of
> >> the level of fuel in that connection. By the time you see fuel squirting
> >> out of the port you are way past the actual start of injection and
> therefor
> >> out of time if the engine is now at the point where the injection should
> >> start.
> >>>
> >>> From what I read and until I get the answers to the above questions I
> >> have to say It will not work as it will be way out of time. Sorry that I
> >> have to say that but timing is a very specific thing and it's hard
> enough
> >> to get it right when you are right there, to tell if it's right from a
> >> general description is impossible.
> >>>
> >>> Manfred
> >>>
> >>> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 17:11:38 -0400
> >>> From: Michael Esh 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks Manfred.  I stopped by the shop today and watched him set it up
> >> with #1 on the compression stroke then roll the engine over and watched
> the
> >> fuel spurt out and the timing mark stop at 24 degrees.  Does this mean
> it
> >> is in the proper range?   The weird thing is the mechanic had supposedly
> >> installed the pump at 180 opposite.  He said he did this by setting up
> the
> >> pump normally and setting engine at 180.  He was then going put things
> back
> >> together and give it a try.  I had to leave at that point
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
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> >>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana

[Peter Frederick]

There were dozens of attempts to replace the KC-135, but somehow it  
never happened, I suspect mainly because they were all new rather  
overcomplicated designs and everyone kept wanting to refuel vast  
number of supersonic bombers we had no use for.  Just like the reason  
the B-52 still has 1950's turbojets instead of bypass engines (twice  
the power, half the fuel use, etc) -- no one could ever make a decision.


My brother did quite a bit of design work on GE's military engines to  
reduce failure rate and improve operations, and in the time he was  
there not one single change was accepted "because it would interrupt  
supply systems".  I can see that to a certain point, but not to the  
point on paralysis.


The main reason the DC-10 was selected over the L1011 or B747 as the  
new tanker was GE -- they were pissed off that neither Boeing nor  
Lockheed chose the CFM-6 for their widebodies (they wanted to put all  
the other engine makers out of business and have a monopoly), and  
having way too much political pull, nixed everything but the airframe  
they had an exclusive engine supply for.  Less than stellar engine for  
many years, caused several crashes (some genius decided that since  
they "never made bad parts" it was unnecessary to x-ray finished  
parts, with the result that a large number of turbine disks had  
internal defects resulting in engine explosions -- the rear engine on  
Ship one blew up and shed the entire turbine assembly, luckily by  
flying out the rear without airframe damage, on the initial test  
flight according to gossip).  It's fine now, I think, but they are all  
much better than the old jets.


The main problem is way too much money, just like the main problem  
with the NSA getting all phone records -- the contractors are  
absorbing a vast portion of the US economy for no reason at all except  
to get filthy rich.


Ah, politics!

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] York compressor

[Peter Frederick]

Your 73 should have, I'll bet someone replaced it.  The 615, so my  
knowledge, came only with that big bracket that goes over the front of  
the engine with a York bolted to it.  Giant PITA.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] York compressor

[WILTON]

My '80 240D, bought in Oct '79, had R4.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Canfield" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] York compressor



My 79 300CD, NA, has a York.

Mike
On Jul 27, 2013 12:00 AM, "Scott Ritchey"  wrote:



My '79 300TD (non turbo) had a GM R4.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb
C.
Striplin
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 10:21 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] York compressor

This may be a wierd question but when did they switch from the York to 
the

Gm compressor happen on the 123? My very first car was a 79 240d and I
thought it had the York. I was looking at a 79 240d on eBay and it has 
the

Gm.
I saw a 78 or 79 300d on eBay the other day and it had the York. So just
curious if anybody knew when the change happened.

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

[Peter Frederick]

You need to find or make a drip tube and use it correctly, it's not  
all that hard.  You and cheat with some clear plastic tubing if you  
cannot find a drip tube.


Remove the #1 injector line, remove the pressure valve holder and  
pressure valve.  Replace the pressure valve holder.  This is to allow  
you to see when the plunger covers the feed port in the sleeve inside  
the pump.  Attach the drip tube or clear plastic line to the injector  
line fitting.  Aim the drip tube off the side of the pump and be  
prepared for the fuel that will run out.


wire the throttle linkage wide open and operate the manual lift pump  
to pressurize the feed chamber in the IP while rotating the engine by  
hand.  Fuel should flow freely from the drip tube until you reach 26  
degress on the compression stroke, at which point it should abruply  
cease or greatly diminish.  This is the point at which the feed  
orifice in the sleeve is covered by the plunger and fuel pressure in  
the IP set should start rising toward injection pressure.


This is the best method to determine if you have pump timing correct.   
Rotate the pump  slightly get obtain the flow reduction at 26 degrees  
before top dead center on the compression stroke of #1.


Once you get the injection timing correct, you will know if you have a  
pump problem or not.  It doesn't take more than a tooth off on the  
sleeve that connects the IP to the timing device to result in a poorly  
running engine.


good luck!

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana

[WILTON]

B-52H's, only ones still in use, have always had turbofans -- TF-33; 17000 
lbs trust; low, of course, with other, modern engines producing 90 - 100 
klbs, etc.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Frederick" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana


There were dozens of attempts to replace the KC-135, but somehow it  never 
happened, I suspect mainly because they were all new rather 
overcomplicated designs and everyone kept wanting to refuel vast  number 
of supersonic bombers we had no use for.  Just like the reason  the B-52 
still has 1950's turbojets instead of bypass engines (twice  the power, 
half the fuel use, etc) -- no one could ever make a decision.


My brother did quite a bit of design work on GE's military engines to 
reduce failure rate and improve operations, and in the time he was  there 
not one single change was accepted "because it would interrupt  supply 
systems".  I can see that to a certain point, but not to the  point on 
paralysis.


The main reason the DC-10 was selected over the L1011 or B747 as the  new 
tanker was GE -- they were pissed off that neither Boeing nor  Lockheed 
chose the CFM-6 for their widebodies (they wanted to put all  the other 
engine makers out of business and have a monopoly), and  having way too 
much political pull, nixed everything but the airframe  they had an 
exclusive engine supply for.  Less than stellar engine for  many years, 
caused several crashes (some genius decided that since  they "never made 
bad parts" it was unnecessary to x-ray finished  parts, with the result 
that a large number of turbine disks had  internal defects resulting in 
engine explosions -- the rear engine on  Ship one blew up and shed the 
entire turbine assembly, luckily by  flying out the rear without airframe 
damage, on the initial test  flight according to gossip).  It's fine now, 
I think, but they are all  much better than the old jets.


The main problem is way too much money, just like the main problem  with 
the NSA getting all phone records -- the contractors are  absorbing a vast 
portion of the US economy for no reason at all except  to get filthy rich.


Ah, politics!

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana

[Peter Frederick]

Yeah, a military engine rather than a commerical one (they tend to  
have much better reilability, eh?).  Way low on power since a JT-7D  
usually runs around 25,000 lbs static thrust if I remember correctly.


The C5A still uses that miserable high-bypass turbofan GE built for  
it, in spite of the fact that even GE has been trying to get them to  
change it for at least 40 years.  It's a first generation engine  
designed in a hurry, with the result that it's a fuel pig, has very  
low reliability, and is horribly expensive.  A good deal of the  
operational difficulties with the C5A and later super-lifters would be  
cured by modern engines, and the Air Force refuses to consider  
replacement.  GE even offered to do the engineering for free got get  
rid of it, was rejected out of hand.


The joys of the military-industrial complex, eh?

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana

[WILTON]

Ten to twelve years ago, Boeing and Pratt & Whitney or GE proposed an engine 
up-grade, lease arrangement for B-52H's - replace the eight TF-33's on each 
with four much more efficient, much higher thrust, surplus "airline" 
engines.  Air Force refused the offer - 'didn't want a civilian company to 
own its critical/necessary engines in case of war.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Frederick" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana


Yeah, a military engine rather than a commerical one (they tend to  have 
much better reilability, eh?).  Way low on power since a JT-7D  usually 
runs around 25,000 lbs static thrust if I remember correctly.


The C5A still uses that miserable high-bypass turbofan GE built for  it, 
in spite of the fact that even GE has been trying to get them to  change 
it for at least 40 years.  It's a first generation engine  designed in a 
hurry, with the result that it's a fuel pig, has very  low reliability, 
and is horribly expensive.  A good deal of the  operational difficulties 
with the C5A and later super-lifters would be  cured by modern engines, 
and the Air Force refuses to consider  replacement.  GE even offered to do 
the engineering for free got get  rid of it, was rejected out of hand.


The joys of the military-industrial complex, eh?

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana

[Peter Frederick]

Since one of those companies produces the TF-33 (likely P&W), that's  
just hot air.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana

[Rich Thomas]

That is stupid.  The civilian company owning the engines part.

--R


On 7/27/13 11:13 AM, WILTON wrote:
Ten to twelve years ago, Boeing and Pratt & Whitney or GE proposed an 
engine up-grade, lease arrangement for B-52H's - replace the eight 
TF-33's on each with four much more efficient, much higher thrust, 
surplus "airline" engines.  Air Force refused the offer - 'didn't want 
a civilian company to own its critical/necessary engines in case of war.


Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Peter Frederick" 


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana


Yeah, a military engine rather than a commerical one (they tend to  
have much better reilability, eh?).  Way low on power since a JT-7D  
usually runs around 25,000 lbs static thrust if I remember correctly.


The C5A still uses that miserable high-bypass turbofan GE built for  
it, in spite of the fact that even GE has been trying to get them to  
change it for at least 40 years.  It's a first generation engine  
designed in a hurry, with the result that it's a fuel pig, has very  
low reliability, and is horribly expensive.  A good deal of the  
operational difficulties with the C5A and later super-lifters would 
be  cured by modern engines, and the Air Force refuses to consider  
replacement.  GE even offered to do the engineering for free got get  
rid of it, was rejected out of hand.


The joys of the military-industrial complex, eh?

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Natural Gas vehicles in Canada - (Randy - pls. notereference to Winnipeg)

[Mountain Man]

Peter wrote:
> LNG is a stupid idea, and will stay stupid just like nuclear fusion.

Too bad this was not the rationale (stupid idea) 150 years ago when
black crude was initially refined to petrol.  Look at the damage, look
at the danger, yet we love our dangerous, polluting, expensive petrol
machines - can't live without them.  Today, however, there are no
reasonable solutions for fuel used to transit ourselves on our black
ribbon highway system.  Petrol is a no-no.  LNG is a no-no.  Fusion is
a no-no.  etc.  All the hand wringing about all sorts of idiocy leaves
us... frozen in the dark.  No energy, no hope, no solution, but plenty
of idiocy.  There is no win-win anymore, except for the likes of Ryan
or Obama or Soros or Gates or Dimon or Pelosi or any of the Fascist
power elite.  Even they will freeze in the dark given the lack of
ability to engineer any reasonable, any sustainable, any safe
solutions for energy, etc.  Yeah, you know... go to banned for the
conclusion.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Natural Gas vehicles in Canada - (Randy - pls. notereference to Winnipeg)

[G Mann]

It should be mentioned, all the people on the list below profit from
energy, either directly, as investors, or indirectly as political clout, on
either side of the issue [chaos should always be exploited, the masses are
stupid].

Power is money, follow the money.

Yes,, I know.. take it to banned...
Grant...

On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mountain Man  wrote:

> Peter wrote:
> > LNG is a stupid idea, and will stay stupid just like nuclear fusion.
>
> Too bad this was not the rationale (stupid idea) 150 years ago when
> black crude was initially refined to petrol.  Look at the damage, look
> at the danger, yet we love our dangerous, polluting, expensive petrol
> machines - can't live without them.  Today, however, there are no
> reasonable solutions for fuel used to transit ourselves on our black
> ribbon highway system.  Petrol is a no-no.  LNG is a no-no.  Fusion is
> a no-no.  etc.  All the hand wringing about all sorts of idiocy leaves
> us... frozen in the dark.  No energy, no hope, no solution, but plenty
> of idiocy.  There is no win-win anymore, except for the likes of Ryan
> or Obama or Soros or Gates or Dimon or Pelosi or any of the Fascist
> power elite.  Even they will freeze in the dark given the lack of
> ability to engineer any reasonable, any sustainable, any safe
> solutions for energy, etc.  Yeah, you know... go to banned for the
> conclusion.
> mao
>
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Re: [MBZ] parts sources, again

[Allan Streib]

http://www.constructivity.net/rebuilding_a_79_300td.htm

Anyone know what happened to the rental spring compressor?  Did Rusty
hand that over to Trent or does he still have that?

Allan

Rich Thomas  writes:

> I have a detailed write up of rebuilding my 79 TD front suspension.
>
> --R (sent from my miniPad)
>
> On Jul 26, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Allan Streib  wrote:
>
> Did the hive-mind ever decide who was the best to go to for parts now?
>
> I'm thinking of finally doing the front-end overhaul on my W123 300D.  I
> have an old parts quote from Rusty somewhere, so I think I know what I
> need, but where to buy and have a decent shot at getting quality parts?
> Jabba?
>
> Allan
>
> -- 
> 1979 300SD 
> 1983 300D
>
>
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-- 
Allan Streib

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Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

[Gerry Archer]

Read about a man who had a boat with a diesel engine that had similar
problems.  He called an injection pump rebuild shop, explained his problem,
and asked them to recommend a mechanic who could help.  The diesel mechanic
they recommended worked primarily on heavy machinery, trucks, and the diesel
cooling units for big trucks.  He was "on call" for truck stops, road
construction companies, and others.  He came out to the mans boat, fixed the
problem fairly quickly, charged him a fair price, and the engine ran fine
from then on.
Gerry

From: "Michael Canfield" 

There are very specific procedures and if the mechanic does not know them
then he is blowing smoke when he tells you he has done the job right in
the
past.  There is no way he can turn the engine with the starter and get an
accurate idea of when fuel delivery starts, NOT when it spurts out.  He
needs to be turning the engine with a bar and socket on the crankshaft so
he can see exactly when fuel delivery starts.

Sounds like you need a mechanic that has a clue what he is doing instead
of
a parts replacer doing a bunch of guesswork.

Mike
On Jul 27, 2013 7:41 AM, "Michael Esh"  wrote:


Thanks Manfred,
He used an engine starter button to turn the engine over and we did not
see the welling up, only spurting.  I will pass along this information to
him and we sill start again on Monday.  My lack of knowledge as well as
his
is become glaringly apparent.  I will be talking to the owner on Monday
about this.  Is there a manual or specific instructions about how to time
the pump that I need to purchase and or read and take to the mechanic.
Thanks for everyone's patience in helping me with this.
Mike

On Jul 27, 2013, at 6:35 AM, MG wrote:

> Can't tell from your description.
>
> 1. Assuming that he followed the outlined procedure and you watched as
the cam turned to the correct point and it was on the compression stroke
then we go to--
>
> 2. When you say he 'rolled it over' What does that mean? It's kind of
like going to buy a new car and the salesman tells you he is giving you a
great price. Do you then just sign the papers or do you find out what
that
price is first? How far did he turn the engine? Roll over does not
quantify
anything so I can't tell from that when the fuel actually started to
'drip'
not 'spurt' two totally different things. The start of injection is a
very
specific setting. If he didn't have the actual drip tube then a very
close
watch has to be kept on the actual level of the fuel in the top of the
connection on the fuel pump. You are looking for a very small increase of
the level of fuel in that connection. By the time you see fuel squirting
out of the port you are way past the actual start of injection and
therefor
out of time if the engine is now at the point where the injection should
start.
>
> From what I read and until I get the answers to the above questions I
have to say It will not work as it will be way out of time. Sorry that I
have to say that but timing is a very specific thing and it's hard enough
to get it right when you are right there, to tell if it's right from a
general description is impossible.
>
> Manfred
>
> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 17:11:38 -0400
> From: Michael Esh 
>
>
> Thanks Manfred.  I stopped by the shop today and watched him set it up
with #1 on the compression stroke then roll the engine over and watched
the
fuel spurt out and the timing mark stop at 24 degrees.  Does this mean it
is in the proper range?   The weird thing is the mechanic had supposedly
 installed the pump at 180 opposite.  He said he did this by setting up
the
pump normally and setting engine at 180.  He was then going put things
back
together and give it a try.  I had to leave at that point
> Mike
>
>
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[MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

[Gerry Archer]

The B-52 has been in active service with the USAF since 1955. As of 2012, 58 
remain in service with nine in reserve. The bombers flew under the Strategic 
Air Command (SAC) until it was inactivated in 1992 and its aircraft absorbed 
into the Air Combat Command (ACC); in 2010 all B-52 Stratofortresses were 
transferred from the ACC to the new Air Force Global Strike Command (AFGSC). 
Superior performance at high subsonic speeds and relatively low operating 
costs have kept the B-52 in service despite the advent of later aircraft, 
including the canceled Mach 3 North American XB-70 Valkyrie, the 
variable-geometry Rockwell B-1B Lancer, and the stealth Northrop Grumman B-2 
Spirit. The B-52 marked its 50th anniversary of continuous service with its 
original operator in 2005 and after being upgraded between 2013 and 2015 it 
will serve into the 2040s.snip


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-52_Stratofortress

Gerry

From: "WILTON" 
B-52H's, only ones still in use, have always had turbofans -- TF-33; 17000 
lbs trust; low, of course, with other, modern engines producing 90 - 100 
klbs, etc.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Frederick" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana


There were dozens of attempts to replace the KC-135, but somehow it 
never happened, I suspect mainly because they were all new rather 
overcomplicated designs and everyone kept wanting to refuel vast  number 
of supersonic bombers we had no use for.  Just like the reason  the B-52 
still has 1950's turbojets instead of bypass engines (twice  the power, 
half the fuel use, etc) -- no one could ever make a decision.


My brother did quite a bit of design work on GE's military engines to 
reduce failure rate and improve operations, and in the time he was  there 
not one single change was accepted "because it would interrupt  supply 
systems".  I can see that to a certain point, but not to the  point on 
paralysis.


The main reason the DC-10 was selected over the L1011 or B747 as the  new 
tanker was GE -- they were pissed off that neither Boeing nor  Lockheed 
chose the CFM-6 for their widebodies (they wanted to put all  the other 
engine makers out of business and have a monopoly), and  having way too 
much political pull, nixed everything but the airframe  they had an 
exclusive engine supply for.  Less than stellar engine for  many years, 
caused several crashes (some genius decided that since  they "never made 
bad parts" it was unnecessary to x-ray finished  parts, with the result 
that a large number of turbine disks had  internal defects resulting in 
engine explosions -- the rear engine on  Ship one blew up and shed the 
entire turbine assembly, luckily by  flying out the rear without airframe 
damage, on the initial test  flight according to gossip).  It's fine now, 
I think, but they are all  much better than the old jets.


The main problem is way too much money, just like the main problem  with 
the NSA getting all phone records -- the contractors are  absorbing a 
vast portion of the US economy for no reason at all except  to get filthy 
rich.


Ah, politics!

Peter

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[MBZ] OT: Satellite ISPs

[OK Don]

Kaleb, and anyone else, which satellite provider are you using, and are you
still happy with them? My wifi based ISP has been having equipment and
routing issues for so long that I'm about ready to pull the plug on them.
If they don't provide decent service (what I'm paying for) after the
service call on Monday, I'm shopping for someone else.

On  side note, our Linksys E4200 died yesterday after a re-boot. It only
blinks now, nothing else. Bought a WD AC1300, brought it home, and it's DoA
out of the box - not a good week for technology here.

-- 
OK Don
2013 F150, 19 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 45 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

[Peter Frederick]

The B-52 serves the role of big and slow strategic bomber.  This is an  
obsolete role, since strategic bombing became a moot point when the  
ICBM became operational in the late 50's.  The need for a high bomb  
load aircraft didn't go away, so we are stuck with truly ancient  
equipment because all the "replacements" were supposed to be  
supersonic, super performance, nuclear bombers.  We don't need a  
nuclear bomber, and have not since 1958 or so.  There is a role for a  
heavy support bomber, but a newer aircraft would be a good idea.


The B-70 was a dud -- supposedly the prototype couldn't make the trip  
to the USSR with a bomb aboard unless it would be re-fueled a couple  
times on the trip, effectively mooting any strategic use -- it's  
arrival would be telegraphed half a day before  arrival by the  
squadrons of KC135's waiting for it to arrive.  It also never met  
operational criteria (notably fuel use) and after McNamara ran the  
numbers, Kennedy cancelled the program -- it was never going to be  
able to perform as required, and delivering a nuclear weapon six or  
eight hours after then end of the world was stupid.


Naturally, the MIP still lusted after all that government cash, and  
the concept was revived later during the Nixon Administration in the  
B1, also cancelled by Carter because it wasn't gonna happen and there  
was no reason to have a nuclear bomber.  Raised from the dead by the  
Reagan Administration, the B1 and derivatives morphed into low level  
subsonic strategic bombers (an oxymoron if there ever was one) and  
became the champion "hanger queens" until the B2 came along -- that  
one was the revival of another dead project from the 50's to make a  
"flying wing".  By using an incredible amount of computing power, the  
B2 can fly almost as straight and level as a Cesna on autopilot and  
takes a couple months to change engines because the "stealth" coating  
has to be chipped off, cleaned up, and re-applied by hand.


A failed temperature sensor crashed one the other year, confused the  
computer into a low speed stall on takeoff.


Way too much technology and way too little actual thought, eh?

Shades of the Asiana crash -- who, or what, was flying the plane?

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana

[Allan Streib]

Peter Frederick  writes:

> Well, the DC-10 was hardly the cutting edge technology -- the L1011  
> was a vastly superior airframe in just about any way you want to  
> compare them, and never suffered from unexpected engine separations or  
> doors blowing off.

The engine separations were caused by airlines "inventing" an engine
removal procedure that was not approved by MD.  The cargo door design
was flawed, though once understood the problem could be mitigated.
Otherwise the aircraft has been reliable and is still in wide use as a
freighter and still in passenger service in some countries.  It is most
definintely an aircraft from another era at this point, unless refitted
with a "glass cockpit" it has a "gauges and switches" cockpit and
requires a 3-man crew to operate.


-- 
Allan Streib

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Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

[WILTON]

B-70 was built as designed - to go very fast very high; Soviets at same time 
developed surface-to-air (SAM's) that led to its cancellation, cause it was 
unable to go very low, very long to avoid Soviet radar and SAM's, which B-52 
was able to do for many more years.


B-52 had been built in 50's and 60's as high altitude bomber, also, but was 
able to adapt for low level penetration of Soviet territory.  'Flew many 
hundreds of hours at very low level myself.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Frederick" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana


The B-52 serves the role of big and slow strategic bomber.  This is an 
obsolete role, since strategic bombing became a moot point when the  ICBM 
became operational in the late 50's.  The need for a high bomb  load 
aircraft didn't go away, so we are stuck with truly ancient  equipment 
because all the "replacements" were supposed to be  supersonic, super 
performance, nuclear bombers.  We don't need a  nuclear bomber, and have 
not since 1958 or so.  There is a role for a  heavy support bomber, but a 
newer aircraft would be a good idea.


The B-70 was a dud -- supposedly the prototype couldn't make the trip  to 
the USSR with a bomb aboard unless it would be re-fueled a couple  times 
on the trip, effectively mooting any strategic use -- it's  arrival would 
be telegraphed half a day before  arrival by the  squadrons of KC135's 
waiting for it to arrive.  It also never met  operational criteria 
(notably fuel use) and after McNamara ran the  numbers, Kennedy cancelled 
the program -- it was never going to be  able to perform as required, and 
delivering a nuclear weapon six or  eight hours after then end of the 
world was stupid.


Naturally, the MIP still lusted after all that government cash, and  the 
concept was revived later during the Nixon Administration in the  B1, also 
cancelled by Carter because it wasn't gonna happen and there  was no 
reason to have a nuclear bomber.  Raised from the dead by the  Reagan 
Administration, the B1 and derivatives morphed into low level  subsonic 
strategic bombers (an oxymoron if there ever was one) and  became the 
champion "hanger queens" until the B2 came along -- that  one was the 
revival of another dead project from the 50's to make a  "flying wing". 
By using an incredible amount of computing power, the  B2 can fly almost 
as straight and level as a Cesna on autopilot and  takes a couple months 
to change engines because the "stealth" coating  has to be chipped off, 
cleaned up, and re-applied by hand.


A failed temperature sensor crashed one the other year, confused the 
computer into a low speed stall on takeoff.


Way too much technology and way too little actual thought, eh?

Shades of the Asiana crash -- who, or what, was flying the plane?

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Satellite ISPs

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Excede

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 27, 2013, at 1:02 PM, OK Don  wrote:

> Kaleb, and anyone else, which satellite provider are you using, and are you
> still happy with them? My wifi based ISP has been having equipment and
> routing issues for so long that I'm about ready to pull the plug on them.
> If they don't provide decent service (what I'm paying for) after the
> service call on Monday, I'm shopping for someone else.
> 
> On  side note, our Linksys E4200 died yesterday after a re-boot. It only
> blinks now, nothing else. Bought a WD AC1300, brought it home, and it's DoA
> out of the box - not a good week for technology here.
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 2013 F150, 19 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 45 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Satellite ISPs

[Craig]

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 13:02:31 -0500 OK Don  wrote:

> Kaleb, and anyone else, which satellite provider are you using, and are
> you still happy with them? My wifi based ISP has been having equipment
> and routing issues for so long that I'm about ready to pull the plug on
> them. If they don't provide decent service (what I'm paying for) after
> the service call on Monday, I'm shopping for someone else.

I know that feeling! We finally got CenturyLink to get our DSL working as
it should, but had problems with emails being rejected because 1and1's
servers had sent too much spam. We dumped after they would not address
their problem for a local outfit which was very helpful in getting the
DSL problem resolved. Interfacing with the local outfit's web control of
email addresses/aliases has been a much better experience than 1and1, too.


> On  side note, our Linksys E4200 died yesterday after a re-boot. It only
> blinks now, nothing else. Bought a WD AC1300, brought it home, and it's
> DoA out of the box - not a good week for technology here.

My sympathies! I just don't understand DoAs. Don't they test things at
the factory?


Craig

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[MBZ] More ac

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

In about to set this 95 e300 on fire. All tests point to bad pbu, yet I would 
think if by my figuring you jump pin 7 and 13 on the left harness in the car 
compressor should kick on, it doesn't. I get about .6 volts at those connection 
as same as I get at the pressure switch. If I put positive at pin 13 which goes 
to fuse 7 and run a wire wire direct to ground I get 12v. If ground plug in the 
pressure switch on the Klima side of the switch compressor kicks on. If I have 
the switch hooked up and ground pin 7 in the car with a wire running direct to 
ground compressor kicks on. I have tested continuity between all wires the one 
from pin 7 in car to pressure switch, it's fine, from other side of pressure 
switch to pin 10 on Klima it's fine, from pin 1 on Klima to ground it's fine. 
That seems to be all the legs of the circuit right? Maybe I need to test from 
pin 13 to fuse 7 in the fuse box? Seems with positive of meter on pin 13 and 
neg to ground and I get 12v that would indicate that wir
 e is fine too, right? What piece of the puzzle am I not getting. If all these 
wires seems to be fine then why won't compressor kick on if pin 13 at pbu 
harness which comes from fuse 7 is jumped to pin 7 which goes out to the 
pressur switch then on to the Klima why won't that kick on the compressor? 
Maybe my limited electrical ability is confusing me? Or is there more to the 
pbu kicking on the compressor that that?  Would the wires seem to test fine but 
still be bad or shorted or something? 

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

[Rich Thomas]

My understanding is that the B-70 was built (2? prototypes) to cause the 
rooshans to soil their collectivist drawers and to spend huge amounts of 
money attempting to defend against it, at the same time ballistic 
missile defense was being touted, also causing the rooshans to soil 
their collectivist drawers and spend huge amounts of money attempting a 
work-around.  Not sure that stuff was ever meant to become operational, 
though the BMD stuff is still going on.  It all led to the downfall of 
the soviet union as they just could not keep up spending against the 
"threats."


--R


On 7/27/13 3:02 PM, WILTON wrote:
B-70 was built as designed - to go very fast very high; Soviets at 
same time developed surface-to-air (SAM's) that led to its 
cancellation, cause it was unable to go very low, very long to avoid 
Soviet radar and SAM's, which B-52 was able to do for many more years.


B-52 had been built in 50's and 60's as high altitude bomber, also, 
but was able to adapt for low level penetration of Soviet territory.  
'Flew many hundreds of hours at very low level myself.


Wilton



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Satellite ISPs

[Gerry Archer]

I assume you straightened a paper clip, stuck it in the tiny hole in the 
back of the units, and reset them?

Gerry

From: "OK Don" 
Kaleb, and anyone else, which satellite provider are you using, and are 
you

still happy with them? My wifi based ISP has been having equipment and
routing issues for so long that I'm about ready to pull the plug on them.
If they don't provide decent service (what I'm paying for) after the
service call on Monday, I'm shopping for someone else.

On  side note, our Linksys E4200 died yesterday after a re-boot. It only
blinks now, nothing else. Bought a WD AC1300, brought it home, and it's 
DoA

out of the box - not a good week for technology here.

--
OK Don
2013 F150, 19 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 45 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3209/6025 - Release Date: 07/27/13




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Re: [MBZ] More ac

[Peter Frederick]

Shouldn't the pressure switch have 12V?

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] More ac

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Yea is should if not test says bad pbu or wire in between. I believe I have 
confirmed wire is good by grounding the 7 pin in the car, compressor kicks on. 
I find it hard to believe all 10 or so pbu I have on hand are bad

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 27, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Peter Frederick  wrote:

> Shouldn't the pressure switch have 12V?
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

[Scott Ritchey]

Current US strategic bomber inventory:

B-1:66
B-2:20
B-52:   58

End of list

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Frederick
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 2:44 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

The B-52 serves the role of big and slow strategic bomber.  This is an  
obsolete role, since strategic bombing became a moot point when the  
ICBM became operational in the late 50's.  The need for a high bomb  
load aircraft didn't go away, so we are stuck with truly ancient  
equipment because all the "replacements" were supposed to be  
supersonic, super performance, nuclear bombers.  We don't need a  
nuclear bomber, and have not since 1958 or so.  There is a role for a  
heavy support bomber, but a newer aircraft would be a good idea.

The B-70 was a dud -- supposedly the prototype couldn't make the trip  
to the USSR with a bomb aboard unless it would be re-fueled a couple  
times on the trip, effectively mooting any strategic use -- it's  
arrival would be telegraphed half a day before  arrival by the  
squadrons of KC135's waiting for it to arrive.  It also never met  
operational criteria (notably fuel use) and after McNamara ran the  
numbers, Kennedy cancelled the program -- it was never going to be  
able to perform as required, and delivering a nuclear weapon six or  
eight hours after then end of the world was stupid.

Naturally, the MIP still lusted after all that government cash, and  
the concept was revived later during the Nixon Administration in the  
B1, also cancelled by Carter because it wasn't gonna happen and there  
was no reason to have a nuclear bomber.  Raised from the dead by the  
Reagan Administration, the B1 and derivatives morphed into low level  
subsonic strategic bombers (an oxymoron if there ever was one) and  
became the champion "hanger queens" until the B2 came along -- that  
one was the revival of another dead project from the 50's to make a  
"flying wing".  By using an incredible amount of computing power, the  
B2 can fly almost as straight and level as a Cesna on autopilot and  
takes a couple months to change engines because the "stealth" coating  
has to be chipped off, cleaned up, and re-applied by hand.

A failed temperature sensor crashed one the other year, confused the  
computer into a low speed stall on takeoff.

Way too much technology and way too little actual thought, eh?

Shades of the Asiana crash -- who, or what, was flying the plane?

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana

[Scott Ritchey]

Thank you Allan, for putting the engine separation blame where it belongs.
Bad maintenance can ruin any machine.

Scott

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Allan
Streib
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 2:50 PM
To: Peter Frederick; Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana

Peter Frederick  writes:

> Well, the DC-10 was hardly the cutting edge technology -- the L1011  
> was a vastly superior airframe in just about any way you want to  
> compare them, and never suffered from unexpected engine separations or  
> doors blowing off.

The engine separations were caused by airlines "inventing" an engine
removal procedure that was not approved by MD.  The cargo door design
was flawed, though once understood the problem could be mitigated.
Otherwise the aircraft has been reliable and is still in wide use as a
freighter and still in passenger service in some countries.  It is most
definintely an aircraft from another era at this point, unless refitted
with a "glass cockpit" it has a "gauges and switches" cockpit and
requires a 3-man crew to operate.


-- 
Allan Streib

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Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

[Scott Ritchey]

Yes.  It must be turned very slowly and by hand.  The crankshaft is optimal
but hard to reach, especially while watching the IP, valve rockers, and
crank angle. I have had good luck turning the engine using the nut on the
power steering pump (assumes correct belt tension).

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Canfield
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 9:16 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

There are very specific procedures and if the mechanic does not know them
then he is blowing smoke when he tells you he has done the job right in the
past.  There is no way he can turn the engine with the starter and get an
accurate idea of when fuel delivery starts, NOT when it spurts out.  He
needs to be turning the engine with a bar and socket on the crankshaft so
he can see exactly when fuel delivery starts.

Sounds like you need a mechanic that has a clue what he is doing instead of
a parts replacer doing a bunch of guesswork.

Mike
On Jul 27, 2013 7:41 AM, "Michael Esh"  wrote:

> Thanks Manfred,
> He used an engine starter button to turn the engine over and we did not
> see the welling up, only spurting.  I will pass along this information to
> him and we sill start again on Monday.  My lack of knowledge as well as
his
> is become glaringly apparent.  I will be talking to the owner on Monday
> about this.  Is there a manual or specific instructions about how to time
> the pump that I need to purchase and or read and take to the mechanic.
> Thanks for everyone's patience in helping me with this.
> Mike
>
> On Jul 27, 2013, at 6:35 AM, MG wrote:
>
> > Can't tell from your description.
> >
> > 1. Assuming that he followed the outlined procedure and you watched as
> the cam turned to the correct point and it was on the compression stroke
> then we go to--
> >
> > 2. When you say he 'rolled it over' What does that mean? It's kind of
> like going to buy a new car and the salesman tells you he is giving you a
> great price. Do you then just sign the papers or do you find out what that
> price is first? How far did he turn the engine? Roll over does not
quantify
> anything so I can't tell from that when the fuel actually started to
'drip'
> not 'spurt' two totally different things. The start of injection is a very
> specific setting. If he didn't have the actual drip tube then a very close
> watch has to be kept on the actual level of the fuel in the top of the
> connection on the fuel pump. You are looking for a very small increase of
> the level of fuel in that connection. By the time you see fuel squirting
> out of the port you are way past the actual start of injection and
therefor
> out of time if the engine is now at the point where the injection should
> start.
> >
> > From what I read and until I get the answers to the above questions I
> have to say It will not work as it will be way out of time. Sorry that I
> have to say that but timing is a very specific thing and it's hard enough
> to get it right when you are right there, to tell if it's right from a
> general description is impossible.
> >
> > Manfred
> >
> > Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 17:11:38 -0400
> > From: Michael Esh 
> >
> >
> > Thanks Manfred.  I stopped by the shop today and watched him set it up
> with #1 on the compression stroke then roll the engine over and watched
the
> fuel spurt out and the timing mark stop at 24 degrees.  Does this mean it
> is in the proper range?   The weird thing is the mechanic had supposedly
>  installed the pump at 180 opposite.  He said he did this by setting up
the
> pump normally and setting engine at 180.  He was then going put things
back
> together and give it a try.  I had to leave at that point
> > Mike
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

[Scott Ritchey]

One other thought, is it possible for vibration damper (the thing with the
TDC and crank angle indications on the front of the crank shaft) to fail and
slip such that it indicates the wrong angle?  I had this happen on a 86 ford
transverse V6 (the rubber bond between the hub and outer rung failed) but I
don't know if it's possible or likely on Mike's engine?

Scott

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Frederick
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 10:11 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

You need to find or make a drip tube and use it correctly, it's not  
all that hard.  You and cheat with some clear plastic tubing if you  
cannot find a drip tube.

Remove the #1 injector line, remove the pressure valve holder and  
pressure valve.  Replace the pressure valve holder.  This is to allow  
you to see when the plunger covers the feed port in the sleeve inside  
the pump.  Attach the drip tube or clear plastic line to the injector  
line fitting.  Aim the drip tube off the side of the pump and be  
prepared for the fuel that will run out.

wire the throttle linkage wide open and operate the manual lift pump  
to pressurize the feed chamber in the IP while rotating the engine by  
hand.  Fuel should flow freely from the drip tube until you reach 26  
degress on the compression stroke, at which point it should abruply  
cease or greatly diminish.  This is the point at which the feed  
orifice in the sleeve is covered by the plunger and fuel pressure in  
the IP set should start rising toward injection pressure.

This is the best method to determine if you have pump timing correct.   
Rotate the pump  slightly get obtain the flow reduction at 26 degrees  
before top dead center on the compression stroke of #1.

Once you get the injection timing correct, you will know if you have a  
pump problem or not.  It doesn't take more than a tooth off on the  
sleeve that connects the IP to the timing device to result in a poorly  
running engine.

good luck!

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Satellite ISPs

[Craig]

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:36:49 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin"
 wrote:

> Excede
> 
> Sent from my iPhone

And the answer to the other part of his question,

> > are you still happy with them?

is? Others would like to know the answer, too.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Satellite ISPs

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Yes

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 27, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Craig  wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:36:49 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin"
>  wrote:
> 
>> Excede
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> And the answer to the other part of his question,
> 
>>> are you still happy with them?
> 
> is? Others would like to know the answer, too.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

[Scott Ritchey]

I think I'm wrong here.  Looking at the 617 engine, I think the timing marks
are on the balance plate (not the vibration damper) which is hard mounted
and pinned to the crank.  Sorry for the red herring.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Ritchey
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 5:31 PM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.


One other thought, is it possible for vibration damper (the thing with the
TDC and crank angle indications on the front of the crank shaft) to fail and
slip such that it indicates the wrong angle?  I had this happen on a 86 ford
transverse V6 (the rubber bond between the hub and outer rung failed) but I
don't know if it's possible or likely on Mike's engine?

Scott

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Frederick
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 10:11 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

You need to find or make a drip tube and use it correctly, it's not  
all that hard.  You and cheat with some clear plastic tubing if you  
cannot find a drip tube.

Remove the #1 injector line, remove the pressure valve holder and  
pressure valve.  Replace the pressure valve holder.  This is to allow  
you to see when the plunger covers the feed port in the sleeve inside  
the pump.  Attach the drip tube or clear plastic line to the injector  
line fitting.  Aim the drip tube off the side of the pump and be  
prepared for the fuel that will run out.

wire the throttle linkage wide open and operate the manual lift pump  
to pressurize the feed chamber in the IP while rotating the engine by  
hand.  Fuel should flow freely from the drip tube until you reach 26  
degress on the compression stroke, at which point it should abruply  
cease or greatly diminish.  This is the point at which the feed  
orifice in the sleeve is covered by the plunger and fuel pressure in  
the IP set should start rising toward injection pressure.

This is the best method to determine if you have pump timing correct.   
Rotate the pump  slightly get obtain the flow reduction at 26 degrees  
before top dead center on the compression stroke of #1.

Once you get the injection timing correct, you will know if you have a  
pump problem or not.  It doesn't take more than a tooth off on the  
sleeve that connects the IP to the timing device to result in a poorly  
running engine.

good luck!

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

[Mountain Man]

Peter wrote:
> There is a role for a heavy support bomber, but a newer aircraft would be a
> good idea.

Yeah, like maybe... military version of Dreamliner?
Wait, the cost must exceed the 350 million cost of F-22 per copy.
Yes, newer aircraft would be a good idea, but too much gizmo is
included.  Failure mode is ditch, whereas B-52 failure mode is put it
down carefully, or somesuch that WILTON can explain.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Satellite ISPs

[Craig]

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:45:07 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin"
 wrote:

> Yes


Thank you!


Craig


> On Jul 27, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Craig  wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:36:49 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin"
> >  wrote:
> > 
> >> Excede
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > And the answer to the other part of his question,
> > 
> >>> are you still happy with them?
> > 
> > is? Others would like to know the answer, too.

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Re: [MBZ] semaphores

[Larry T]

The photo on the new Panorama (Porsche club Mag) has a photo of one of 
the 1st 356s made in Gmund Austria - only 52 were made there before 
production was moved to Stuttgart  - the 356 cover car has Semaphores 
too.  It was the 1st time I had noticed them...


Very neat car - it says "the shape is without influence other than the 
wind."


I still remember earning about hand/arm signals back in the 60s when I 
was going to get my license.  I used to wonder about "why" we needed to 
learn hand/arm signals and the only answer I ever got was "in case the 
electrical system fails.


LarryT
91 300D

On 7/26/2013 11:31 PM, Mitch Haley wrote:

Randy Bennell wrote:

Every once in a while I see someone use arm signals when riding a bike.
It somehow seems odd although we used to do it all the time.


John Forrester's Effective Cycling teaches not to use the left arm car 
signals, instead indicating left turns with left arm and right turns 
with right arm. Forrester says there's no reason to limit yourself to 
left arm when both your arms are visible.


Mitch.



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[MBZ] 1st Gear Kickdown

[Larry T]

Hi Gang -
For some reason, the kick-down to 1st gear has stopped working. 
The others work so the button under the pedal works.   There is a 
Kick-down Solenoid - can that have anything to do with it not working 
just in 1st?


Any suggestions?

LarryT
91 300D
W124-128

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Re: [MBZ] More ac

[Michael Canfield]

A corroded connection or bad wire can read good with the low current of
your meter but not conduct well enough to handle the load of the compressor.

Mike
On Jul 27, 2013 3:49 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:

> In about to set this 95 e300 on fire. All tests point to bad pbu, yet I
> would think if by my figuring you jump pin 7 and 13 on the left harness in
> the car compressor should kick on, it doesn't. I get about .6 volts at
> those connection as same as I get at the pressure switch. If I put positive
> at pin 13 which goes to fuse 7 and run a wire wire direct to ground I get
> 12v. If ground plug in the pressure switch on the Klima side of the switch
> compressor kicks on. If I have the switch hooked up and ground pin 7 in the
> car with a wire running direct to ground compressor kicks on. I have tested
> continuity between all wires the one from pin 7 in car to pressure switch,
> it's fine, from other side of pressure switch to pin 10 on Klima it's fine,
> from pin 1 on Klima to ground it's fine. That seems to be all the legs of
> the circuit right? Maybe I need to test from pin 13 to fuse 7 in the fuse
> box? Seems with positive of meter on pin 13 and neg to ground and I get 12v
> that would indicate that wire is fine too, right? What piece of the puzzle
> am I not getting. If all these wires seems to be fine then why won't
> compressor kick on if pin 13 at pbu harness which comes from fuse 7 is
> jumped to pin 7 which goes out to the pressur switch then on to the Klima
> why won't that kick on the compressor? Maybe my limited electrical ability
> is confusing me? Or is there more to the pbu kicking on the compressor that
> that?  Would the wires seem to test fine but still be bad or shorted or
> something?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] More ac

[Curt Raymond]

If the test tells you that 12v should be present between 2 pins and 12v is no 
present then jumping them won't do anything because the power to do whatever 
you were trying to do isn't there. You need to find why 12v is not present.

-Curt

Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:49:05 -0500
From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 
To: Mercedes Discussion List ,
davesl...@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] More ac
Message-ID: <5abca659-71f5-4a87-b27b-3555cf1c7...@striplin.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

In about to set this 95 e300 on fire. All tests point to bad pbu, yet I would 
think if by my figuring you jump pin 7 and 13 on the left harness in the car 
compressor should kick on, it doesn't. I get about .6 volts at those connection 
as same as I get at the pressure switch. If I put positive at pin 13 which goes 
to fuse 7 and run a wire wire direct to ground I get 12v. If ground plug in the 
pressure switch on the Klima side of the switch compressor kicks on. If I have 
the switch hooked up and ground pin 7 in the car with a wire running direct to 
ground compressor kicks on. I have tested continuity between all wires the one 
from pin 7 in car to pressure switch, it's fine, from other side of pressure 
switch to pin 10 on Klima it's fine, from pin 1 on Klima to ground it's fine. 
That seems to be all the legs of the circuit right? Maybe I need to test from 
pin 13 to fuse 7 in the fuse box? Seems with positive of meter on pin 13 and 
neg to ground and I get
 12v that would indicate that wire is fine too, right? What piece of the puzzle 
am I not getting. If all these wires seems to be fine then why won't compressor 
kick on if pin 13 at pbu harness which comes from fuse 7 is jumped to pin 7 
which goes out to the pressur switch then on to the Klima why won't that kick 
on the compressor? Maybe my limited electrical ability is confusing me? Or is 
there more to the pbu kicking on the compressor that that?  Would the wires 
seem to test fine but still be bad or shorted or something? 

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] More ac

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Well now all the sudden it's working after screwing about with it all day. 
Decided to run thru the testing using the socket box tester and the eBay pbu 
and now all the sudden it's working. When I got the pbu off eBay the other day 
I swear it did not kick in but now it is all the sudden. So now moving on the 
acc vacuum issues

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 27, 2013, at 6:56 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> If the test tells you that 12v should be present between 2 pins and 12v is no 
> present then jumping them won't do anything because the power to do whatever 
> you were trying to do isn't there. You need to find why 12v is not present.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:49:05 -0500
> From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List ,
> davesl...@okiebenz.com
> Subject: [MBZ] More ac
> Message-ID: <5abca659-71f5-4a87-b27b-3555cf1c7...@striplin.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii
> 
> In about to set this 95 e300 on fire. All tests point to bad pbu, yet I would 
> think if by my figuring you jump pin 7 and 13 on the left harness in the car 
> compressor should kick on, it doesn't. I get about .6 volts at those 
> connection as same as I get at the pressure switch. If I put positive at pin 
> 13 which goes to fuse 7 and run a wire wire direct to ground I get 12v. If 
> ground plug in the pressure switch on the Klima side of the switch compressor 
> kicks on. If I have the switch hooked up and ground pin 7 in the car with a 
> wire running direct to ground compressor kicks on. I have tested continuity 
> between all wires the one from pin 7 in car to pressure switch, it's fine, 
> from other side of pressure switch to pin 10 on Klima it's fine, from pin 1 
> on Klima to ground it's fine. That seems to be all the legs of the circuit 
> right? Maybe I need to test from pin 13 to fuse 7 in the fuse box? Seems with 
> positive of meter on pin 13 and neg to ground and I get
> 12v that would indicate that wire is fine too, right? What piece of the 
> puzzle am I not getting. If all these wires seems to be fine then why won't 
> compressor kick on if pin 13 at pbu harness which comes from fuse 7 is jumped 
> to pin 7 which goes out to the pressur switch then on to the Klima why won't 
> that kick on the compressor? Maybe my limited electrical ability is confusing 
> me? Or is there more to the pbu kicking on the compressor that that?  Would 
> the wires seem to test fine but still be bad or shorted or something? 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Satellite ISPs

[OK Don]

Yes - and re-loaded via TFTP the Linksys. Just got back with the second WD
AC1300 - it works like a charm. Simple basic setup, plenty of options
afterwards. Tiem will tell it's any better than the Linksys though.


On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:

> I assume you straightened a paper clip, stuck it in the tiny hole in the
> back of the units, and reset them?
> Gerry
>
> From: "OK Don" 
>
>> Kaleb, and anyone else, which satellite provider are you using, and are
>> you
>> still happy with them? My wifi based ISP has been having equipment and
>> routing issues for so long that I'm about ready to pull the plug on them.
>> If they don't provide decent service (what I'm paying for) after the
>> service call on Monday, I'm shopping for someone else.
>>
>> On  side note, our Linksys E4200 died yesterday after a re-boot. It only
>> blinks now, nothing else. Bought a WD AC1300, brought it home, and it's
>> DoA
>> out of the box - not a good week for technology here.
>>
>> --
>> OK Don
>> 2013 F150, 19 mpg
>> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 45 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> __**_
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives 
>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>> -
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3209/6025 - Release Date: 07/27/13
>>
>>
>
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>
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>



-- 
OK Don
2013 F150, 19 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 45 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Satellite ISPs

[OK Don]

Kaleb, which plan do you have, and have you ever exceeded the limit? If so,
what happens when you do?


On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 7:16 PM, OK Don  wrote:

>
> From: "OK Don" 
>
>> Kaleb, and anyone else, which satellite provider are you using, and are
>>> you
>>> still happy with them? My wifi based ISP has been having equipment and
>>> routing issues for so long that I'm about ready to pull the plug on them.
>>> If they don't provide decent service (what I'm paying for) after the
>>> service call on Monday, I'm shopping for someone else.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>
OK Don
2013 F150, 19 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 45 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] More ac

[Michael Canfield]

Sounds like you fiddled with the right loose connection.  I would clean up
any related plugs with a mild contact cleaner before finishing up to
prevent the old "now I am done, check this out, shit, it won't work AGAIN!".

Mike
On Jul 27, 2013 8:12 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:

> Well now all the sudden it's working after screwing about with it all day.
> Decided to run thru the testing using the socket box tester and the eBay
> pbu and now all the sudden it's working. When I got the pbu off eBay the
> other day I swear it did not kick in but now it is all the sudden. So now
> moving on the acc vacuum issues
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 27, 2013, at 6:56 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>
> > If the test tells you that 12v should be present between 2 pins and 12v
> is no present then jumping them won't do anything because the power to do
> whatever you were trying to do isn't there. You need to find why 12v is not
> present.
> >
> > -Curt
> >
> > Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:49:05 -0500
> > From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 
> > To: Mercedes Discussion List ,
> > davesl...@okiebenz.com
> > Subject: [MBZ] More ac
> > Message-ID: <5abca659-71f5-4a87-b27b-3555cf1c7...@striplin.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii
> >
> > In about to set this 95 e300 on fire. All tests point to bad pbu, yet I
> would think if by my figuring you jump pin 7 and 13 on the left harness in
> the car compressor should kick on, it doesn't. I get about .6 volts at
> those connection as same as I get at the pressure switch. If I put positive
> at pin 13 which goes to fuse 7 and run a wire wire direct to ground I get
> 12v. If ground plug in the pressure switch on the Klima side of the switch
> compressor kicks on. If I have the switch hooked up and ground pin 7 in the
> car with a wire running direct to ground compressor kicks on. I have tested
> continuity between all wires the one from pin 7 in car to pressure switch,
> it's fine, from other side of pressure switch to pin 10 on Klima it's fine,
> from pin 1 on Klima to ground it's fine. That seems to be all the legs of
> the circuit right? Maybe I need to test from pin 13 to fuse 7 in the fuse
> box? Seems with positive of meter on pin 13 and neg to ground and I get
> > 12v that would indicate that wire is fine too, right? What piece of the
> puzzle am I not getting. If all these wires seems to be fine then why won't
> compressor kick on if pin 13 at pbu harness which comes from fuse 7 is
> jumped to pin 7 which goes out to the pressur switch then on to the Klima
> why won't that kick on the compressor? Maybe my limited electrical ability
> is confusing me? Or is there more to the pbu kicking on the compressor that
> that?  Would the wires seem to test fine but still be bad or shorted or
> something?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Satellite ISPs

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

I have the 25 gig plan which I usually do not come close to unless the kid gets 
ahold of the iPad and starts watching movies. If it is toward the end of the 
month and I still have a lot left I will stream some stuff from Netflix. If you 
do a lot of steaming you will use it up pretty quick. I have gone over a few 
times and they just slow you back to about 256k or some such speed until the 
first of the month. Between midnight and 7am if fill speed and free and does 
not count against your data

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 27, 2013, at 7:23 PM, OK Don  wrote:

> Kaleb, which plan do you have, and have you ever exceeded the limit? If so,
> what happens when you do?
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 7:16 PM, OK Don  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> From: "OK Don" 
>> 
>>> Kaleb, and anyone else, which satellite provider are you using, and are
 you
 still happy with them? My wifi based ISP has been having equipment and
 routing issues for so long that I'm about ready to pull the plug on them.
 If they don't provide decent service (what I'm paying for) after the
 service call on Monday, I'm shopping for someone else.
 
 
 
 --
> OK Don
> 2013 F150, 19 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 45 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] parts sources, again

[Rusty Cullens]

Trent has it.


Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: Allan Streib 
Sender: "Mercedes" 
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 13:50:34 
To: Rich Thomas; Mercedes Discussion 
List
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] parts sources, again

http://www.constructivity.net/rebuilding_a_79_300td.htm

Anyone know what happened to the rental spring compressor?  Did Rusty
hand that over to Trent or does he still have that?

Allan

Rich Thomas  writes:

> I have a detailed write up of rebuilding my 79 TD front suspension.
>
> --R (sent from my miniPad)
>
> On Jul 26, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Allan Streib  wrote:
>
> Did the hive-mind ever decide who was the best to go to for parts now?
>
> I'm thinking of finally doing the front-end overhaul on my W123 300D.  I
> have an old parts quote from Rusty somewhere, so I think I know what I
> need, but where to buy and have a decent shot at getting quality parts?
> Jabba?
>
> Allan
>
> -- 
> 1979 300SD 
> 1983 300D
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
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>
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-- 
Allan Streib

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Re: [MBZ] parts sources, again

[WILTON]

'Fraida that.

Have ya heard anything at all from 'im?

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Rusty Cullens" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] parts sources, again



Trent has it.


Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: Allan Streib 
Sender: "Mercedes" 
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 13:50:34
To: Rich Thomas; Mercedes Discussion 
List

Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] parts sources, again

http://www.constructivity.net/rebuilding_a_79_300td.htm

Anyone know what happened to the rental spring compressor?  Did Rusty
hand that over to Trent or does he still have that?

Allan

Rich Thomas  writes:


I have a detailed write up of rebuilding my 79 TD front suspension.

--R (sent from my miniPad)

On Jul 26, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Allan Streib  wrote:

Did the hive-mind ever decide who was the best to go to for parts now?

I'm thinking of finally doing the front-end overhaul on my W123 300D.  I
have an old parts quote from Rusty somewhere, so I think I know what I
need, but where to buy and have a decent shot at getting quality parts?
Jabba?

Allan

--
1979 300SD
1983 300D


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--
Allan Streib

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Re: [MBZ] parts sources, again

[Rich Thomas]

Probably been pawned by now.

--R (sent from my miniPad)

On Jul 27, 2013, at 8:57 PM, "Rusty Cullens"  wrote:


Trent has it.


Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: Allan Streib 
Sender: "Mercedes" 
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 13:50:34 
To: Rich Thomas; Mercedes Discussion 
List
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] parts sources, again

http://www.constructivity.net/rebuilding_a_79_300td.htm

Anyone know what happened to the rental spring compressor?  Did Rusty
hand that over to Trent or does he still have that?

Allan

Rich Thomas  writes:

> I have a detailed write up of rebuilding my 79 TD front suspension.
> 
> --R (sent from my miniPad)
> 
> On Jul 26, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Allan Streib  wrote:
> 
> Did the hive-mind ever decide who was the best to go to for parts now?
> 
> I'm thinking of finally doing the front-end overhaul on my W123 300D.  I
> have an old parts quote from Rusty somewhere, so I think I know what I
> need, but where to buy and have a decent shot at getting quality parts?
> Jabba?
> 
> Allan
> 
> -- 
> 1979 300SD 
> 1983 300D
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
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-- 
Allan Streib

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Re: [MBZ] More ac

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Jul 27, 2013 5:12 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:
>
> Well now all the sudden it's working
> after screwing about with it all day.
> Decided to run thru the testing using
> the socket box tester

I am impressed that you went to the trouble and expense to get the breakout
box.  I always see it in the FSM when I am working on ACC on my '87 and
wonder how much it costs or if it's even still available (or did you find a
used one?).

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] More ac

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

I got a used one, got that the cable for 124/126 86 up, cable for 201, and also 
that test cable/box think for the older 123/126 system, I got it all for $400 
shipped. Break out box is available new for $1200, cables are $300 each. The 
box can be used with other cables to test other systems as well. It tests 
everything pretty much. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 27, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Alex Chamberlain  wrote:

> On Jul 27, 2013 5:12 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:
>> 
>> Well now all the sudden it's working
>> after screwing about with it all day.
>> Decided to run thru the testing using
>> the socket box tester
> 
> I am impressed that you went to the trouble and expense to get the breakout
> box.  I always see it in the FSM when I am working on ACC on my '87 and
> wonder how much it costs or if it's even still available (or did you find a
> used one?).
> 
> Alex
> ___
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] More ac

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

I say used, if it was used it was only used once, looks brand new

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 27, 2013, at 8:30 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:

> I got a used one, got that the cable for 124/126 86 up, cable for 201, and 
> also that test cable/box think for the older 123/126 system, I got it all for 
> $400 shipped. Break out box is available new for $1200, cables are $300 each. 
> The box can be used with other cables to test other systems as well. It tests 
> everything pretty much. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 27, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Alex Chamberlain  wrote:
> 
>> On Jul 27, 2013 5:12 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well now all the sudden it's working
>>> after screwing about with it all day.
>>> Decided to run thru the testing using
>>> the socket box tester
>> 
>> I am impressed that you went to the trouble and expense to get the breakout
>> box.  I always see it in the FSM when I am working on ACC on my '87 and
>> wonder how much it costs or if it's even still available (or did you find a
>> used one?).
>> 
>> Alex
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Re: [MBZ] parts sources, again

[Mountain Man]

--R wrote:
> Probably been pawned by now.

The next town down the road is Dixon - where Ronnie grew up.  The city
clerk got busted a coupla years ago for siphoning off $350M.  They
were selling her horse stables, etc. last Fall.  Chicago corruption
even rules central IL.
I'm surprised you don't have news about Trent - you contacted all the
police forces local to you and at Sterling.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] York compressor

[Dieselhead]

This may be a wierd question but when did they switch from the York 
to the Gm compressor happen on the 123? My very first car was a 79 
240d and I thought it had the York. I was looking at a 79 240d on 
eBay and it has the Gm.
I saw a 78 or 79 300d on eBay the other day and it had the York. So 
just curious if anybody knew when the change happened.


Sent from my iPhone


My 80 and 81 both have GM.   If you've seen 79s with both york and 
GM, that was probably the transition year.  80 had series GPs and 81 
has pencil type.  Both now have pencil type due to engine swap in the 
80.


78 had swing tube intake and bellcrank accelerator linkage.  My 80 
had and has the flat intake and newer style throttle without the 
bellcrank.  That tends to indicate 79 was a transition year.


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Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

[Dieselhead]

Thanks Manfred,
He used an engine starter button to turn the 
engine over and we did not see the welling up, 
only spurting.  I will pass along this 
information to him and we sill start again on 
Monday.  My lack of knowledge as well as his is 
become glaringly apparent.  I will be talking to 
the owner on Monday about this.  Is there a 
manual or specific instructions about how to 
time the pump that I need to purchase and or 
read and take to the mechanic.

Thanks for everyone's patience in helping me with this.
Mike




NO! NO! NO!   You can't turn the engine over with the starter when timing!!!

 As Manfred said, once you find the approximate 
location of the START of injection (that needs to 
line up with the correct degrees BTDC, then you 
turn the engine over by hand with a socket on the 
crankshaftt big bolt about 700º  (just under two 
full revolutions) then very, very slwly until 
the drip tube stops running and just starts to 
drip (With the DV pin out) or, using my Q&D 
method, until the fuel in the 2mm dia part of the 
bore in the #1 DV union just barely starts to 
move (like .005")


RTFB  OM616/617 engine book. (paper)

Timing a diesel is NOTHING like timing a gasser. 
Static timing a gassser is similar to timing a 
Diesel, but not nearly as much precision is 
required.


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Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

[Dieselhead]

You need to find or make a drip tube and use it 
correctly, it's not all that hard.  You and 
cheat with some clear plastic tubing if you 
cannot find a drip tube.


Remove the #1 injector line, remove the pressure 
valve holder and pressure valve.  Replace the 
pressure valve holder.  This is to allow you to 
see when the plunger covers the feed port in the 
sleeve inside the pump.  Attach the drip tube or 
clear plastic line to the injector line fitting. 
Aim the drip tube off the side of the pump and 
be prepared for the fuel that will run out.


wire the throttle linkage wide open and operate 
the manual lift pump to pressurize the feed 
chamber in the IP while rotating the engine by 
hand.  Fuel should flow freely from the drip 
tube until you reach 26 degress on the 
compression stroke, at which point it should 
abruply cease or greatly diminish.  This is the 
point at which the feed orifice in the sleeve is 
covered by the plunger and fuel pressure in the 
IP set should start rising toward injection 
pressure.


This is the best method to determine if you have pump timing correct.
Rotate the pump  slightly get obtain the flow 
reduction at 26 degrees before top dead center 
on the compression stroke of #1.


Once you get the injection timing correct, you 
will know if you have a pump problem or not.  It 
doesn't take more than a tooth off on the sleeve 
that connects the IP to the timing device to 
result in a poorly running engine.


good luck!

Peter



All correct, but in this case, I'd bet the pump 
is off by at least one tooth on the drive, so I 
would modify the third paragraph thusly:


Fuel should flow freely from the drip tube until 
you reach the "beginning of fuel delivery" at 
which point the fuel flow at the drip tube should 
abruptly cease or greatly diminish.  (See the 
book section on injection timing)   Beginning of 
fuel delivery is supposed to be 26 degrees on the 
compression stroke.


Once you determine how many degrees the 
beginning of delivery is off, then you can figure 
out how many teeth the ip of off at the drive. 
THen you have to take out the pump and try to get 
it in the right tooth.  This will probably take 
you several tries.  Reading the book may help, 
but I found that it was best to set the IP cam 
where it will stay without a locking device with 
the #1 cam on the way up to delivery.  Then turn 
the engine to 45º BTDC and install the pump and 
see how close you are for timing.  (it will 
probably be late for beginning of delivery on #1. 
So you will need to determine how many degrees 
retarded it is, remove the pump, then turn the 
engine crank over 720º minus the number of 
degrees retarded, and install the pump again. 
THis time you should be right on.


Check the timing mark on the front of the IP.

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Re: [MBZ] More ac

[Fmiser]

> Kaleb wrote:
> 
> ... I would think if by my figuring you jump pin 7 and 13 on the
> left harness in the car compressor should kick on, it doesn't. I
> get about .6 volts at those connection as same as I get at the
> pressure switch.

0.6 volts between chassis ground an the pins?  Or 0.6 volts
between the two pins?

> If I put positive at pin 13 which goes to fuse 7
> and run a wire wire direct to ground I get 12v.

Hmm.  This sort of answers my first questions.  I guess the
0.6 was between the 7 and 13.  That would be the correct
reading if the PBU is using a transistor as a switch.

> If ground plug in the pressure switch on the Klima side of
> the switch compressor kicks on.

Ah!  That says the KLIMA is the hold-out, since bypassing it
makes the compressor turn on.   Does the PBU connect to the
KLIMA directly?

> Maybe I need to test from pin 13 to fuse 7 in the fuse
> box? Seems with positive of meter on pin 13 and neg to ground and
> I get 12v that would indicate that wire is fine too, right? 

With "ordinary" electric - yes.  But a transistor switch in
the PBU could have a little bit of current leak through that
would show up on a meter - but not be enough to actually _do_
anything. 

I don't have a wiring diagram, so I'm just basing my guesses on
what you are telling us. 

-- Philip

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Re: [MBZ] parts sources, again

[Dieselhead]

I got one order from autohaus.  no problem

Need to order again

I think the consensus is that we are on our own.  But Kleb promised 
something was coming.  No word for several weeks on that.   Some have 
succumbed to ordering from fats, but i remember his behaviour and 
will not comport to that.



Did the hive-mind ever decide who was the best to go to for parts now?

I'm thinking of finally doing the front-end overhaul on my W123 300D.  I
have an old parts quote from Rusty somewhere, so I think I know what I
need, but where to buy and have a decent shot at getting quality parts?
Jabba?

Allan

--
1979 300SD
1983 300D


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Re: [MBZ] parts sources, again

[Rich Thomas]

I ordered stuff from Jabba, worked out fine and he was helpful.

--R (sent from my miniPad)

On Jul 27, 2013, at 11:45 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

I got one order from autohaus.  no problem

Need to order again

I think the consensus is that we are on our own.  But Kleb promised something 
was coming.  No word for several weeks on that.   Some have succumbed to 
ordering from fats, but i remember his behaviour and will not comport to that.

> Did the hive-mind ever decide who was the best to go to for parts now?
> 
> I'm thinking of finally doing the front-end overhaul on my W123 300D.  I
> have an old parts quote from Rusty somewhere, so I think I know what I
> need, but where to buy and have a decent shot at getting quality parts?
> Jabba?
> 
> Allan
> 
> --
> 1979 300SD
> 1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] parts sources, again

[Allan Streib]

Mountain Man  writes:

> The next town down the road is Dixon - where Ronnie grew up.  The city
> clerk got busted a coupla years ago for siphoning off $350M.  They
> were selling her horse stables, etc. last Fall.  Chicago corruption
> even rules central IL.

Illinois is one of the most corrupt states in the country, it doesn't
stop outside of Chicago.

-- 
Allan Streib

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Satellite ISPs

[Allan Streib]

"Kaleb C. Striplin"  writes:

> I have the 25 gig plan which I usually do not come close to unless the
> kid gets ahold of the iPad and starts watching movies. If it is toward
> the end of the month and I still have a lot left I will stream some
> stuff from Netflix. If you do a lot of steaming you will use it up
> pretty quick. I have gone over a few times and they just slow you back
> to about 256k or some such speed until the first of the month. Between
> midnight and 7am if fill speed and free and does not count against
> your data

Looks a little on the expensive side, compared to what I pay for cable
internet.  I guess if it's the only option, it's the only option.

-- 
Allan Streib

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