Re: [MBZ] Cheap Chinese rubber

[Gary Hurst]

i had access to much of that stuff in CRP until recently but that stuff is
nearly all gone now  :(


On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 1:12 AM, clay  wrote:

> Part of an early order to get Frosch back into shape involved some hard
> and soft top seals from Bimby.  I had them socked away in a large bin of
>  Round2it parts.  I figured I would tackle the task on this rare sunny day,
> so pulled them out.  ARA/URO junk.  But if DBAG is going to allow the
> chinese to provide OEM replacement parts in future, I can not be doing too
> much damage.
>
> I extracted the old perished rubber and took a look to see how I was to
> install these fresh rubber bits.  There were these vampire clips backing
> the original rubber.  I could not figure out the proper way to install the
> seals with these clips, so went with using WD40 to lube the rail and seal
> and fed/pulled them into position.  I compared the perish part with the
> chinese seals and they looked sort of, almost alike.  Where there was
> fabric backed felt, the cheap stuff was just felt flecked without backing.
>  The rubber meant to fit in the channels was a bit out of spec and fat, so
> the edge of the channel was shaving off a goodly amount as I fed it in.
>  Thankfully the stuff was out of spec fat in the rail, so unless it
> shrinks, will probably not fall out or need the vampire clips to bite into
> the rubber and hold it hard in the rail.
>
> At present the new seals look ok.  There should be a reduction in road
> noise and wind whistle, as the glass is now sealing well against the rubber
> instead of biting crosswise in some areas and opening the split parts in
> others.  A fairly tight fit to each other as well and no need to trim
> excess.  Time will tell if I can get some life out of the stuff.  At least
> I kept the vampire clips, incase I did install garbage and just take it to
> a shop to have real Mercedes rubber put in.  Those clips are probably
> pretty rare.
>
>
> clay
>
> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[MBZ] Cheap Chinese rubber

[clay]

Part of an early order to get Frosch back into shape involved some hard and 
soft top seals from Bimby.  I had them socked away in a large bin of  Round2it 
parts.  I figured I would tackle the task on this rare sunny day, so pulled 
them out.  ARA/URO junk.  But if DBAG is going to allow the chinese to provide 
OEM replacement parts in future, I can not be doing too much damage.

I extracted the old perished rubber and took a look to see how I was to install 
these fresh rubber bits.  There were these vampire clips backing the original 
rubber.  I could not figure out the proper way to install the seals with these 
clips, so went with using WD40 to lube the rail and seal and fed/pulled them 
into position.  I compared the perish part with the chinese seals and they 
looked sort of, almost alike.  Where there was fabric backed felt, the cheap 
stuff was just felt flecked without backing.  The rubber meant to fit in the 
channels was a bit out of spec and fat, so the edge of the channel was shaving 
off a goodly amount as I fed it in.  Thankfully the stuff was out of spec fat 
in the rail, so unless it shrinks, will probably not fall out or need the 
vampire clips to bite into the rubber and hold it hard in the rail.

At present the new seals look ok.  There should be a reduction in road noise 
and wind whistle, as the glass is now sealing well against the rubber instead 
of biting crosswise in some areas and opening the split parts in others.  A 
fairly tight fit to each other as well and no need to trim excess.  Time will 
tell if I can get some life out of the stuff.  At least I kept the vampire 
clips, incase I did install garbage and just take it to a shop to have real 
Mercedes rubber put in.  Those clips are probably pretty rare.


clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








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Re: [MBZ] Just ain't got time to fit a proper filter!

[clay]

All this chatter about filters and intake, I just had enlightenment.

Looking at the way the intake is built on the early R107, the opening is a bit 
smaller than the rest of the cone leading to the cleaner.  Incoming air, warm 
or not, would be sucked into the cone, where it would expand, cooling a bit as 
it expanded and then expanding even more when it gets to the enlarged filter 
housing.  Physics at work!

Wonder if I should hook a larger funnel to the opening so that more air gets 
forced in.  Or I could hook a blower up.  And some propane or a small O2 bottle.

clay


On Oct 6, 2013, at 6:50 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:

> More to the point, the K&N was developed for DIRT TRACK racing, where there 
> is alway an enormous amount of dust.  Wash and re-oil is quick, cheap, and 
> they don't plug up as bad as paper filters.
> 
> There are no other advantages, as has been demonstrated numerous times.  In 
> most cases, when you get enough oil on the filter to actually remove the dirt 
> rather than let fine dust into the engine, the oil will coat the now 
> ubiquitous platinum wire flow meters, burn onto the wire, and permanently 
> screw up the air flow meter.
> 
> Finally, velocity makes a huge difference in the amount of air that actually 
> goes down the intake, and a pipe with three 45 degree turns has very much 
> less flow than a properly designed venturi (which is present on any Benz I've 
> ever seen).  Worst case is the bare filter on top of the intake -- I've seen 
> dyno curves that show at 10 to 15% LOSS of power without the filter housing.
> 
> High priced crap to remove the money from kid's pockets.
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[Gary Hurst]

back in my peek weight days, abby and i went and got kayaks on the hooch.
the girl assured me that their super top model can carry ANYONE as it is
rated to 400lbs.  i agreed!

let's just say the kayak was hardly visible and i was in the water.


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:49 PM, clay  wrote:

> I just had the Epic Fail logo flash in my brain -- Hurst on a wee moto and
> the massive reflective vest, shocks bottomed out and sparks coming off the
> rims
>
> clay
>
> On Oct 5, 2013, at 6:06 PM, Rick Knoble wrote:
>
> > On Oct 5, 2013, at 7:43 PM, "Gary Hurst"  wrote:
> >
> >> i have mixed feelings on the danger element.  on the one hand,
> obviously,
> >> no one wants to get hurt badly, but, on the other, i find us too much
> >> living our lives in fear and don't think it's a good thing
> >
> >
> > Put on a 5x chartreuse reflective safety vest and you will stick out
> like a sore thumb.
> >
> > Rick
> > Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] slow day

[Rich Thomas]

Turn your head when you cough

--R

On 10/6/13 11:53 PM, clay wrote:

please ignore, I was on cough medication

clay





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Re: [MBZ] slow day

[clay]

please ignore, I was on cough medication

clay

On Oct 5, 2013, at 7:50 PM, clay wrote:

> SWMBA has clients with projects that are screwed.  The agencies have closed 
> doors and are no longer working on permitting or review of projects.  At 
> least they called to let folks know that they were shutting the doors at noon 
> Monday to celebrate the end of the Obama administration
> 
> clay
> 
> On Oct 4, 2013, at 5:44 PM, Mountain Man wrote:
> 
>> drfatty wrote:
>>> do you get the feeling that you are just around to be a pawn in a lot of
>>> people's rackets?
>> 
>> Such as the news racket?
>> Blather on and on.
>> Then jump to debt.
>> ...eh...
>> The gov't runs on and on.
>> Is there anyone here at okiebenz that is affected by ACA? or shutdown?
>> I suspect nobody is affected by either ACA or shutdown and we are
>> pawns in the racket of "news" reporting.
>> mao
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[clay]

I just had the Epic Fail logo flash in my brain -- Hurst on a wee moto and the 
massive reflective vest, shocks bottomed out and sparks coming off the rims

clay

On Oct 5, 2013, at 6:06 PM, Rick Knoble wrote:

> On Oct 5, 2013, at 7:43 PM, "Gary Hurst"  wrote:
> 
>> i have mixed feelings on the danger element.  on the one hand, obviously,
>> no one wants to get hurt badly, but, on the other, i find us too much
>> living our lives in fear and don't think it's a good thing
> 
> 
> Put on a 5x chartreuse reflective safety vest and you will stick out like a 
> sore thumb. 
> 
> Rick
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] I think curt or somebody needs this

[clay]

Local crawlers are pretty stuck on the 617 NA.  It has enough power to get them 
where they want, no turbo to mess things up, and easy to fit.  The only guys 
using a VW diesel are in the suzuki Samurai.  That is a really good match of HP 
to weight.

clay

On Oct 5, 2013, at 2:05 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

> Interesting idea, poor implementation. Besides in many places it'll never be 
> legal to have that old an engine in that new a truck. Not here for sure.
> 
> Actually now that I've crossed to the dark side I see everything in terms of 
> a VW diesel. You can build one of the 90HP engines up to 150HP pretty easily 
> with a chip, bigger injectors and a bigger IP and maybe intercooler. The 
> engine is so small and light you don't face the issues there that you do with 
> an MB diesel and you keep your power to weight ratio much more positive. 
> Theres a guy thats done a CJ7 that came out real nice. I think after my Jetta 
> rusts out thats my plan, find a CJ, put a kevlar tub (lighter than steel, 
> stronger than fiberglass) on it and the VW diesel in with some minor power 
> mods. 31" tires, 5spd trans, lockers front and rear. A moderately powerful 
> 4wd with decent offroad capability that I can actually afford fuel for.
> 
> Speaking of which I commuted with the Jetta this past week, 560 miles or so. 
> I fueled up twice, once because I had to once because we're on vacation and I 
> wanted it full. First tank was 48mpg, second was 52mpg. I think 55mpg should 
> be achievable, that first tank I was flogging the car to see how it would 
> hold up (well, in part because its a fun car to drive) the second I slowed 
> down and tried not to go over 75mph.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 20:04:28 -0500
> From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: [MBZ] I think curt or somebody needs this
> Message-ID: <2a224bb2-a150-4810-920d-857127a5b...@drivedominion.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> http://joplin.craigslist.org/cto/4109030244.html
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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[clay]

Answer to both is NO.

49cc has a hard time moving a 150lb mass down the roadway at a decent speed.  
In Florida, it may not be an issue, except trying to get up a steep driveway.  
You can not take a 50cc on the highway, but surface streets are fine, since you 
are not trying to get above 30mph.  Think motobecane.

All bikes with larger than 50cc are required to be licensed around where I 
live.  Also in places I have lived in a former life.  Not sure what FL 
requires.  I was able to maintain double nickel on a early 1970's Honda enduro, 
I think it was 120cc.  For a man of your dimensions, a real bike decked out 
like a scooter, think Honda Pacifica, might do the job.  Maybe the larger 
actual scooters will get you around at 30mph.  Go to the beach and rent one of 
their bikes.  See how it moves you about.

clay





On Oct 5, 2013, at 11:53 AM, Gary Hurst wrote:

> i want to get a scooter to be a little runabout when the distances are a
> little long for the bicycle but i still don't want to drive a car.  i don't
> want to mess with licensing or insurance or anything but i do want
> something i can actually take on a trip of a few hundred miles even. is
> this a problem that lends itself to a solution, especially when one
> considers my 350lbs+ girth?
> 
> if i just got a bigger scooter, say, 150cc, and didn't bother to mess with
> licensing and such, would i stand to have issues or nobody would care? can
> an under 50 cc do the job described above, even it is is is done not so
> well?
> 
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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[MG]

Ah yes I see. To me any motor vehicle would automatically require 
registration and a tag. So also it appears thinks the DMV.


Introduction

In Florida, there are classifications for both mopeds and 
motorized scooters. Be aware of which classification your vehicle 
falls into, as there are different requirements for each.


If your vehicle exceeds the specifications for a moped or 
motorized scooter, it will be classified as a motorcycle and will 
be held subject to all Florida motorcycle licensing and 
registration laws.

Moped Classification in Florida

A moped is defined as a vehicle that has:

* A seat for the rider
* Pedals that allow you to propel the vehicle
* three or fewer wheels
* A motor of two-brake horsepower or less
* Maximum speed of 30 mph on level ground
* An Automatic power-drive system that does not require the 
rider to manually change gears
* Displacement of 50 cc or less (for those with an internal 
combustion engine)


License, Registration and Insurance Requirements

All moped drivers need to have a valid Class E driver's license 
and be at least 16 years of age or older to drive a moped on a 
public road. Your moped must be registered, which you can do at 
your local county tax collector office. You will be issued 
motorcycle license plates, which you will need to renew annually. 
If you're younger than 21 years of age, your plate will have a 
distinctive design and color.


The fee for registering a moped is $6.75, though other statutory 
fees may apply.


You will need to observe the following requirements and regulations:

* You will not be allowed to ride your moped on bike or foot 
paths

* All passengers younger than 16 must wear a helmet

Moped drivers are no longer required to carry Personal Injury 
Protection insurance in order to register a moped in FL.


Florida Motorized Scooter

A motorized scooter is defined as a vehicle that is:

* without a seat or saddle for the use of the rider
* Designed to travel on three wheels or less
* Operates at a maximum speed of 30 mph on level ground

You are required to have a valid Class E driver's license and you 
must be at least 16 years old to ride a motorized scooter in the 
state of Florida. You cannot register or title a motorized 
scooter, and you cannot drive a motorized scooter on sidewalks. 
There are no insurance requirements in Florida regarding the 
operation of a motorized scooter.


If your moped’s specifications exceed the definitions on this 
page, it is classified as a motorcycle and is subject to 
Florida’s laws regarding motorcycle license requirements.



So going by that the old Yamaha Zuma 50cc scooter that my 
daughter had now has to be considered a motorcycle since it goes 
too fast.


I would also run that thing they call a scooter in the above 
description by the cops down where you are as that kind of thing 
up here is what they do not allow on public property even if you 
have a drivers license. Anything with a motor that the state 
won't register and issue a tag for is not allowed, well with the 
possible exception of a bike with a small electric motor.



Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 14:26:22 -0400
From: Gary Hurst 

this interesting but it talks about license, not registration.  i 
have a
driver's license but i don't want the scooter registered.  i'm 
looking for
an intermediate mode of transportation when i am alone.  the car 
is really

for others, but bicycle limits me to about to 10 miles around me.

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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[Tim Crone]

Wilton is correct, there are no legal lefts on red in North Carolina.
There was some debate in the state legislature on this point about ten or
twelve years ago; they were debating removing the restriction inside city
limits on intersecting one way streets that are state maintained.  There
was strong lobbying against by some organizations for the blind, and then
the bill died.

As Mitch said, simple. :)

Best,
Tim
On Oct 6, 2013 12:21 AM, "Gary Hurst"  wrote:

> i'd bet you are wrong that lefts on red are never allowed.  you just think
> they are not allowed as the circumstances are particular and you may never
> have encountered them
>
> imagine you are traveling southbound on a southbound one way street.  you
> come to a red light at the intersection of an eastbound one way street.
> now your left on red is equivalent to a right on red and it is therefore
> likely permitted.  i know it is this way in the state of georgia and i'd
> guess in north carolina as well
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:44 PM, WILTON  wrote:
>
> > I'm very familiar with the part of NC traffic law that allows right turn
> > on red after full stop and sure way is clear - left on red NOT allowed.
> >  When I lived in California (last was 35 years ago), I followed CA
> traffic
> > laws; during 60+ years of driving in NC, I've tried to follow NC traffic
> > laws. ;<)
> >
> > Wilton
> >
> > - Original Message - From: "ernest breakfield"
> > 
> >
> > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> > Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 9:47 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)
> >
> >
> >  if the law in "most places" is like what i'm familiar with in
> California,
> >> the law doesn't say anything about right or left.
> >> what it says here is that you can make a turn on a red light after a
> >> full and complete stop if you can start from a lane nearest the curb and
> >> end in the lane nearest the (same) curb.
> >>
> >> to the original posters question; you'll have to check the regs
> where
> >> you are to determine what qualifies as requiring documentation; it
> varies
> >> greatly with locale.
> >> as a bicyclist and motorcyclist, i don't see any use for a scooter
> >> beyond the possibility of extremely short trips around town. my
> experience
> >> around them is that they can't really be "ridden like a bicycle", and i
> >> don't consider them as safe as either a motorcycle or a bicycle since
> they
> >> have enough power to get you into trouble, but the small/inexpensive
> ones
> >> don't have the braking or handling to get you out of it.
> >>
> >> i'd encourage you to keep riding the bicycle if you can (it's better
> >> for you!).
> >> if you need to extend your range somewhat, consider a small
> >> motorcycle... but be sure you do the math if you're thinking of it as a
> >> cost saving device; getting dressed to ride safely is going to cost more
> >> than some people here will spend on a car, and the cost of keeping good
> >> tires on a motorcycle might surprise some people.
> >>
> >>
> >> cheers!
> >> e
> >>
> >>
> >> On 05/Oct/13 13:47, Mitch Haley wrote:
> >>
> >>> Most places you can turn left on red onto a one way street.
> >>>
> >>> Mitch.
> >>>
> >>
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Re: [MBZ] Just ain't got time to fit a proper filter!

[Mitch Haley]

Hendrik and Fay wrote:


Then there is the question of a spoiler on a Diesel.
Hmmnh hammer Diesel. 
http://spoki.tvnet.lv/automoto/AMG-300E-60-Hammer-W124/130880


I almost bought a Hammer from Alain Vanhollebeke 8 years ago.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/1043438-post26.html

I would have made a crazy Finn diesel out of it, the guy who did buy it bought a 
Hammer engine for it and spent a small fortune putting it right, even had some 
reproduction Hammer head gaskets made at great cost.
Hard to imagine finding an engine out of a Hammer here in the USA, right? Well, 
it turned out to be the very engine that came out of the car, so the car was a 
numbers matching original when it was finished.


Mitch

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Re: [MBZ] Just ain't got time to fit a proper filter!

[Peter Frederick]

More to the point, the K&N was developed for DIRT TRACK racing, where  
there is alway an enormous amount of dust.  Wash and re-oil is quick,  
cheap, and they don't plug up as bad as paper filters.


There are no other advantages, as has been demonstrated numerous  
times.  In most cases, when you get enough oil on the filter to  
actually remove the dirt rather than let fine dust into the engine,  
the oil will coat the now ubiquitous platinum wire flow meters, burn  
onto the wire, and permanently screw up the air flow meter.


Finally, velocity makes a huge difference in the amount of air that  
actually goes down the intake, and a pipe with three 45 degree turns  
has very much less flow than a properly designed venturi (which is  
present on any Benz I've ever seen).  Worst case is the bare filter on  
top of the intake -- I've seen dyno curves that show at 10 to 15% LOSS  
of power without the filter housing.


High priced crap to remove the money from kid's pockets.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[WILTON]

Because of that reputation, I certainly don't wanta be caught riding one.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Ritchey" 

To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] scooters




Or "losercycle."


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 1:50 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] scooters

'Same here - "liquorcycle" or "whiskeycycle."

Wilt

- Original Message -
From: "Rich Thomas" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] scooters


> Around here we call them "liquorcycles" because when a guy gets busted
> for DUI and loses his license, they can go get a liquorcycle to ride
> around on until they get their license back.
>
> It is interesting to see a guy carrying a case of Bud Light while 
> riding

> one of those things.
>
> --R
>
>
> On 10/6/13 1:22 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:
>> Unlicensed scooter drivers are real pestilence.  I suspect they will
>> vanish soon, if only because the police and insurance companies demand
>> it.
>>
>> Peter
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Just ain't got time to fit a proper filter!

[Hendrik and Fay]

Yeah it has to be asked what the thinking is behind using these types of 
air filters.
I believe they where developed for racing car application and then found 
their way into road going cars.
Sure MB developed their air intake systems for the worst possible 
scenarios and are not as free flowing as these barely there types but 
any benefit you gain here, you'd lose by sucking in warmer air.
Warm air is less dense I believe and air density is a factor in 
producing HP.
It would be an interesting exercise to put this car on a dyno and see if 
there are any actual any extra horses mysteriously appearing by using 
this type of filter v the real deal.
Personally it is always a turn off to see this sort of thing, screams 
boy racer who is more interested in going faster than maintaining their car.

Then there is the question of a spoiler on a Diesel.
Hmmnh hammer Diesel. 
http://spoki.tvnet.lv/automoto/AMG-300E-60-Hammer-W124/130880


Hendrik
who recently changed the proper air filter

On 07/10/13 07:58, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

So rather than sucking in colder outside air from the fender intake we suck hot 
engine air in from under the hood. Brilliant

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 6, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:


m...@voyager.net wrote:


I asked him about the Becker and the 'factory cold air intake system'.
Should be interesting to see if he publishes my question and his answer.

I got a reply from him, and he published it on eBay:

http://search.ebay.com/251351651811

Q: Do you still have the factory cold air intake system and Becker radio? Do 
they come with the car?
A: I think I have the air intake, but the radio had failed. sorry. I will 
include the original air intake with the car if its wanted. Thanks


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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[Scott Ritchey]

Or "losercycle."

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON
> Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 1:50 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] scooters
> 
> 'Same here - "liquorcycle" or "whiskeycycle."
> 
> Wilt
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Rich Thomas" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 1:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] scooters
> 
> 
> > Around here we call them "liquorcycles" because when a guy gets busted
> > for DUI and loses his license, they can go get a liquorcycle to ride
> > around on until they get their license back.
> >
> > It is interesting to see a guy carrying a case of Bud Light while riding
> > one of those things.
> >
> > --R
> >
> >
> > On 10/6/13 1:22 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:
> >> Unlicensed scooter drivers are real pestilence.  I suspect they will
> >> vanish soon, if only because the police and insurance companies demand
> >> it.
> >>
> >> Peter
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] left on red

[WILTON]

Yep.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Mitch Haley" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] left on red



ernest breakfield wrote:

interesting. that's even looser than what we've got here in California.


The idea in CA seems to be you can enter a traffic lane but not cross one.

The idea in Michigan is that you can cross a traffic lane if that lane has 
a red light to prevent through traffic, so you can left on red from a two 
way onto a one way but not from a one way onto a two way.


The idea in NC seems to be that they need simple rules, so instead of 
having left on red some of the time depending on conditions, they just ban 
left on red and make right on red permissible unless there's a sign at the 
corner forbidding it.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[WILTON]

And there's youse guys with appropriate New Joisey, etc., accent.   ;<)

Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: "Rich Thomas" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)



Well there is y'all and all y'all

--R


On 10/6/13 4:14 PM, Gary Hurst wrote:

of course you'd need the apostrophe as you've lost an A.

the support for y'all is that it is commonly written and presumed but it 
is

rendered" ya'll" by falkner.  i guess if you can find me a flannery
o'connor "y'all", i'd feed better about it, but it seems this literary
tradition makes an argument for the other rendering


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:03 PM, WILTON  wrote:

How's that?  I've always thought "y'all" is for "you all" - the 
apostrophe

taking the place of the missing "ou."  That's what this native North
Carolinian grew up with, anyway.  If I were saying "ya all," I wouldn't
need the apostrophe.  'Course, one is welcome to use whatever 
contraction

he wants.  ;<)

Wilt


- Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 2:59 PM

Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


  it might actually be ya'all


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 2:38 PM, WILTON  wrote:

  BTW, that's "y'all," not "ya'll."  ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "WILTON" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 10:27 AM

Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


  OK; after all, not other way to turn, is there?  One should never 
say



"never;" that's a mighty long time.  Same for "always."   ;<)  Well,
anyway, in NC, left turn on red is generally not allowed, and I don't
plan
to test it.  Ya'll are welcome come and try it if ya want; we can put
your
money to good use.  Just don't hurt somebody while trying it.  ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" 


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


  i'd bet you are wrong that lefts on red are never allowed.  you 
just



think
they are not allowed as the circumstances are particular and you may
never
have encountered them

imagine you are traveling southbound on a southbound one way street.
you
come to a red light at the intersection of an eastbound one way 
street.

now your left on red is equivalent to a right on red and it is
therefore
likely permitted.  i know it is this way in the state of georgia and
i'd
guess in north carolina as well


On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:44 PM, WILTON  wrote:

  I'm very familiar with the part of NC traffic law that allows 
right

turn


on red after full stop and sure way is clear - left on red NOT
allowed.
  When I lived in California (last was 35 years ago), I followed CA
traffic
laws; during 60+ years of driving in NC, I've tried to follow NC
traffic
laws. ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "ernest breakfield"



To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 9:47 PM

Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


  if the law in "most places" is like what i'm familiar with in
California,

  the law doesn't say anything about right or left.

 what it says here is that you can make a turn on a red light
after
a
full and complete stop if you can start from a lane nearest the 
curb

and
end in the lane nearest the (same) curb.

 to the original posters question; you'll have to check the 
regs

where
you are to determine what qualifies as requiring documentation; it
varies
greatly with locale.
 as a bicyclist and motorcyclist, i don't see any use for a
scooter
beyond the possibility of extremely short trips around town. my
experience
around them is that they can't really be "ridden like a bicycle",
and i
don't consider them as safe as either a motorcycle or a bicycle 
since

they
have enough power to get you into trouble, but the 
small/inexpensive

ones
don't have the braking or handling to get you out of it.

 i'd encourage you to keep riding the bicycle if you can (it's
better
for you!).
 if you need to extend your range somewhat, consider a small
motorcycle... but be sure you do the math if you're thinking of it
as a
cost saving device; getting dressed to ride safely is going to 
cost

more
than some people here will spend on a car, and the cost of keeping
good
tires on a motorcycle might surprise some people.


cheers!
e


On 05/Oct/13 13:47, Mitch Haley wrote:

  Most places you can turn left on red onto a one way street.


Mitch.


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To U

Re: [MBZ] UPDATE! Front mats for '83 240D

[Dwight Giles]

Gerry I got them from Rusty. About   120 IIRC. I got them for my  coupe so
sold back ones to a lister.
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Re: [MBZ] left on red

[Mitch Haley]

ernest breakfield wrote:

interesting. that's even looser than what we've got here in California.


The idea in CA seems to be you can enter a traffic lane but not cross one.

The idea in Michigan is that you can cross a traffic lane if that lane has a red 
light to prevent through traffic, so you can left on red from a two way onto a 
one way but not from a one way onto a two way.


The idea in NC seems to be that they need simple rules, so instead of having 
left on red some of the time depending on conditions, they just ban left on red 
and make right on red permissible unless there's a sign at the corner forbidding 
it.

Mitch.

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[MBZ] UPDATE! Front mats for '83 240D

[Gerry Archer]

UPDATE:  The Ebay mats look pretty close to the color of the 
seats/upholstery so I went ahead and ordered them.  Price was $181.xx 
including shipping in case anyone else wants a set.  Many thanks to Chris 
who provided a lot of information, and to others who offered info and 
suggestions.

Gerry

Neither of those numbers on the build plate, Chris.  No numbers besides 123
beginning with 1.
This was a custom ordered 240D picked up in Germany.  Would that have
anything to do with the absence of the numbers?

I would call the exterior sheet metal color light brown (probably beige).
The seat and upholstery is a slightly darker shade of light brown; possibly
with a very slight reddish tinge.  But to repeat:  I'm very poor with
colors.  If I can get my old Nikon working, I'll send pictures to the list.
Gerry

From: "Chris James" 

Both beige & palomino (MB-Tex/Leather/Velour) upholstery was available
on the later W123's. Highly unlikely that you have leather or velour, so
look for code 154 (palomino Tex) or 155 (beige Tex) on the radiator
cross member build plate.

Mercedes Benz 1983 "MB-Tex, Leather & Velour Upholsteries" Upholstery
Brochure
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-1983-MB-Tex-Leather-Velour-Upholsteries-Upholstery-Brochure-/380727355225



From: "Gerry Archer"  Date: 10/6/2013 3:51
PM


Thanks, Chris!  I should be able to find some here. Got a question
about the Mercedes floor mats on Ebay.  I've heard my wife (who
passed away) call the inside and outside of the '83 240D "biege"
color. The Ebay mats below are "palomino".  Looked palomino up on
the 'net and it seems the color can vary between "light brown" and
golden or darker.  The color of the mats shown on Ebay look pretty
close to the color of the 240D. In your opinion, and/or anyone elses,
is the color shown what Mercedes generally refers to as palomino.  My
"color sense" is close to zero. Gerry



--
Chris J.
MBCA Peachtree section
Past MB Models:
'85 190D 2.2, '94 E420, '87 260E

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[MBZ] left on red (was: Re: question for scooter guy (or anyone else))

[ernest breakfield]

interesting. that's even looser than what we've got here in California.


cheers!
e


On 06/Oct/13 08:18, Mitch Haley wrote:

WILTON wrote:

'Found nothing allowing left turn on any type of red light signal - 
STOP sign, yes, but red "ball," solid red arrow, flashing red arrow - 
no.


You're right, I can't find anything permitting left on red in NC under 
any circumstances.


Here's the situation in Michigan, which I think makes more sense:
http://www.annarbor.com/news/more-about-turns-on-red/

Drivers can make a right turn on a red traffic signal from a one-way 
or two-way street onto a one-way or two-way street. Drivers also can 
make a left turn on a red traffic signal from a one-way or two-way 
street onto a one-way street only.


Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] Sunday OT -- tunes for all you old prog-rock guys

[Rich Thomas]

Yes.  It was actually the first contract engineering/research firm in 
the world, I think established in the mid-late 1800s (i forget 
exactly).  We did lots of work for the gummint and private industry, 
sorta outsourcing their technical challenges.  It was one of those 
places where a lunch could extend for an hour or two if you sat at the 
right (or maybe wrong) table.  It was quite an education about a lot of 
things.  Many years after I left I would be traveling somewhere and 
occasionally run into colleagues in airports or hotels or car rental 
buses.  One day I was having breakfast in a hotel in Pasadena, and heard 
this guy behind me talking to someone, and recognized the voice.  This 
was maybe 10 or 15 years after leaving there.  I turn around and see my 
first "real" boss who took me on full time after a guy down the hall 
told him he needed me (I was working part time at the time, still 
finishing school).  That was quite interesting, we had a bit of a chat 
about things.  He was still doing kinda the same stuff as an independent 
consultant.


I think they might have priced themselves out of existence, or times 
changed, not sure what the final nail was -- it started declining after 
I left!


--R

On 10/6/13 4:51 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:
Interesting!  Arthur D. Little sounds like the kind of creative 
company that developed various item on contract back then.

Gerry

From: "Rich Thomas" 
That retro-reflector was developed by a company called Arthur D. 
Little, Inc. in Cambridge, MA where I got my first real job (and met 
my wife!).  I had the pleasure and privilege to work with some of the 
engineers who developed it and saw it launched and placed on the 
Moon.  Last I heard it was still there and working quite nicely some 
40+ years on!  It consisted of a bunch of right-angle corner 
reflectors about 1.5" diameter placed in a stand that could be set up 
and aimed at the Earth more or less.  It did provide very accurate 
measurements, sub-centimeter I think, and was used to measure 
perturbations in the orbit, seismic activity, and various other 
things the scientists could divine.


There were a few of the reflectors in a case in the lobby, and I 
think someone had one of the prototypes in their office.  Wonder what 
happened to that stuff, the company went out of business a few years 
back, and a friend and colleague who attended our wedding was the 
last president of the company, sadly.  At one time there was a 
laser/telescope on the roof, they would go out there and shoot at it 
just because...


There was also a silk purse in the display that had been made from 
sow's ears.  They also developed the major contribution to western 
civilization, Cap'n Crunch cereal, and a bunch of other really cool 
stuff.


--R


On 10/6/13 3:17 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:

An
astronomer gave me a private tour, put the huge telescope through 
it's paces
(the whole dome rotates very precisely), and explained their current 
major
project which involved shooting a high powered laser through the 
telescope

at the moon.
The moon astronauts had left highly reflective multisided spheres on 
the
moon (I was shown one and allowed to hold it); the telescopes laser 
beam was
bounced off the spheres, and the returning beam was intercepted at 
precise

locations within its range.  The purpose was in getting very accurate
measurements of distance between the observatory and the places of
interception; something that was probably impossible to do any other 
way

back then.



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Re: [MBZ] Just ain't got time!

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

So rather than sucking in colder outside air from the fender intake we suck hot 
engine air in from under the hood. Brilliant

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 6, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> m...@voyager.net wrote:
> 
>> I asked him about the Becker and the 'factory cold air intake system'.
>> Should be interesting to see if he publishes my question and his answer.
> 
> I got a reply from him, and he published it on eBay:
> 
> http://search.ebay.com/251351651811
> 
> Q: Do you still have the factory cold air intake system and Becker radio? Do 
> they come with the car?
> A: I think I have the air intake, but the radio had failed. sorry. I will 
> include the original air intake with the car if its wanted. Thanks
> 
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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[Gary Hurst]

that's a different subject


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

> Well there is y'all and all y'all
>
> --R
>
>
>
> On 10/6/13 4:14 PM, Gary Hurst wrote:
>
>> of course you'd need the apostrophe as you've lost an A.
>>
>> the support for y'all is that it is commonly written and presumed but it
>> is
>> rendered" ya'll" by falkner.  i guess if you can find me a flannery
>> o'connor "y'all", i'd feed better about it, but it seems this literary
>> tradition makes an argument for the other rendering
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:03 PM, WILTON  wrote:
>>
>>  How's that?  I've always thought "y'all" is for "you all" - the
>>> apostrophe
>>> taking the place of the missing "ou."  That's what this native North
>>> Carolinian grew up with, anyway.  If I were saying "ya all," I wouldn't
>>> need the apostrophe.  'Course, one is welcome to use whatever contraction
>>> he wants.  ;<)
>>>
>>> Wilt
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" 
>>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 2:59 PM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)
>>>
>>>
>>>   it might actually be ya'all
>>>

 On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 2:38 PM, WILTON  wrote:

   BTW, that's "y'all," not "ya'll."  ;<)

> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "WILTON" 
>
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 10:27 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)
>
>
>   OK; after all, not other way to turn, is there?  One should never say
>
>  "never;" that's a mighty long time.  Same for "always."   ;<)  Well,
>> anyway, in NC, left turn on red is generally not allowed, and I don't
>> plan
>> to test it.  Ya'll are welcome come and try it if ya want; we can put
>> your
>> money to good use.  Just don't hurt somebody while trying it.  ;<)
>>
>> Wilton
>>
>> - Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" <
>> jabbahur...@gmail.com>
>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
>> Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 12:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)
>>
>>
>>   i'd bet you are wrong that lefts on red are never allowed.  you just
>>
>>  think
>>> they are not allowed as the circumstances are particular and you may
>>> never
>>> have encountered them
>>>
>>> imagine you are traveling southbound on a southbound one way street.
>>> you
>>> come to a red light at the intersection of an eastbound one way
>>> street.
>>> now your left on red is equivalent to a right on red and it is
>>> therefore
>>> likely permitted.  i know it is this way in the state of georgia and
>>> i'd
>>> guess in north carolina as well
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:44 PM, WILTON  wrote:
>>>
>>>   I'm very familiar with the part of NC traffic law that allows right
>>> turn
>>>
>>>  on red after full stop and sure way is clear - left on red NOT
 allowed.
   When I lived in California (last was 35 years ago), I followed CA
 traffic
 laws; during 60+ years of driving in NC, I've tried to follow NC
 traffic
 laws. ;<)

 Wilton

 - Original Message - From: "ernest breakfield"
 



 To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
 Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 9:47 PM

 Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


   if the law in "most places" is like what i'm familiar with in
 California,

   the law doesn't say anything about right or left.

>  what it says here is that you can make a turn on a red light
> after
> a
> full and complete stop if you can start from a lane nearest the
> curb
> and
> end in the lane nearest the (same) curb.
>
>  to the original posters question; you'll have to check the
> regs
> where
> you are to determine what qualifies as requiring documentation; it
> varies
> greatly with locale.
>  as a bicyclist and motorcyclist, i don't see any use for a
> scooter
> beyond the possibility of extremely short trips around town. my
> experience
> around them is that they can't really be "ridden like a bicycle",
> and i
> don't consider them as safe as either a motorcycle or a bicycle
> since
> they
> have enough power to get you into trouble, but the
> small/inexpensive
> ones
> don't have the braking or handling to get you out of it.
>
>  i'd encourage you to keep riding the bicycle if you can (it's

Re: [MBZ] Just ain't got time!

[Mitch Haley]

m...@voyager.net wrote:


I asked him about the Becker and the 'factory cold air intake system'.
Should be interesting to see if he publishes my question and his answer.


I got a reply from him, and he published it on eBay:

http://search.ebay.com/251351651811

Q: Do you still have the factory cold air intake system and Becker radio? Do 
they come with the car?
A: I think I have the air intake, but the radio had failed. sorry. I will 
include the original air intake with the car if its wanted. Thanks


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Re: [MBZ] 5 speed 722.6 trouble

[Mitch Haley]

Last word from the seller. Unless somebody has a real good idea (like Marshall 
Booth clairvoyance) I may have to let this car go. Like the seller, I don't need 
another $1500 worth of immobile mobile sitting in my yard.


Hey Mr Frederick, got any ideas?

In short, he hooked up to the car to the diagnostic device, saw the sort of 
solenoid and sensor codes you see when the conductor plate is fried, replaced 
the plate, it still indicated a ME2 "Read ETC" Current Fault, tried to retighten 
the 13 pin connector and possibly broke the plate, got disgusted and quit 
messing with it. I feel his pain, that sounds like something I'd do, especially 
the 'got disgusted and quit' part:



I think the pressure regulator spring problem had been fixed by 2000 but I 
didn't check it. The codes looked like more of an electronic problem.  The 
"captive nut" is the one molded into the plastic in the conductor plate that the 
sleeve for the 13 pin connector screws into. The torque rating for the bolt in 
the connector sleeve is very low and I used an inch pound torque wrench when I 
installed it. Then when it looked like I might have incomplete connections at 
the transmission, I second guessed myself and though maybe the sleeve didn't 
pull in all the way, so I tightened it a little more and felt a pop. Could be 
the bolt broke, but more likely the plastic on the conductor plate broke, which 
would make it junk.



So bottom line is I don't have a mechanic here who could spend the time it needs 
for any reasonable amount of money. I've already put much more than the $1500 
into it, I really don't want to spend more time and money playing with it. If 
you can get somebody to pick it up from here and I can uninsure it and cancel 
the registration, I'll be happy, but I don't really want to participate in the 
repair from this point on - otherwise I probably would have garaged it for the 
winter and kept on playing with it.




 -Reid

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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[Rich Thomas]

Well there is y'all and all y'all

--R


On 10/6/13 4:14 PM, Gary Hurst wrote:

of course you'd need the apostrophe as you've lost an A.

the support for y'all is that it is commonly written and presumed but it is
rendered" ya'll" by falkner.  i guess if you can find me a flannery
o'connor "y'all", i'd feed better about it, but it seems this literary
tradition makes an argument for the other rendering


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:03 PM, WILTON  wrote:


How's that?  I've always thought "y'all" is for "you all" - the apostrophe
taking the place of the missing "ou."  That's what this native North
Carolinian grew up with, anyway.  If I were saying "ya all," I wouldn't
need the apostrophe.  'Course, one is welcome to use whatever contraction
he wants.  ;<)

Wilt


- Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 2:59 PM

Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


  it might actually be ya'all


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 2:38 PM, WILTON  wrote:

  BTW, that's "y'all," not "ya'll."  ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "WILTON" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 10:27 AM

Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


  OK; after all, not other way to turn, is there?  One should never say


"never;" that's a mighty long time.  Same for "always."   ;<)  Well,
anyway, in NC, left turn on red is generally not allowed, and I don't
plan
to test it.  Ya'll are welcome come and try it if ya want; we can put
your
money to good use.  Just don't hurt somebody while trying it.  ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


  i'd bet you are wrong that lefts on red are never allowed.  you just


think
they are not allowed as the circumstances are particular and you may
never
have encountered them

imagine you are traveling southbound on a southbound one way street.
you
come to a red light at the intersection of an eastbound one way street.
now your left on red is equivalent to a right on red and it is
therefore
likely permitted.  i know it is this way in the state of georgia and
i'd
guess in north carolina as well


On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:44 PM, WILTON  wrote:

  I'm very familiar with the part of NC traffic law that allows right
turn


on red after full stop and sure way is clear - left on red NOT
allowed.
  When I lived in California (last was 35 years ago), I followed CA
traffic
laws; during 60+ years of driving in NC, I've tried to follow NC
traffic
laws. ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "ernest breakfield"



To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 9:47 PM

Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


  if the law in "most places" is like what i'm familiar with in
California,

  the law doesn't say anything about right or left.

 what it says here is that you can make a turn on a red light
after
a
full and complete stop if you can start from a lane nearest the curb
and
end in the lane nearest the (same) curb.

 to the original posters question; you'll have to check the regs
where
you are to determine what qualifies as requiring documentation; it
varies
greatly with locale.
 as a bicyclist and motorcyclist, i don't see any use for a
scooter
beyond the possibility of extremely short trips around town. my
experience
around them is that they can't really be "ridden like a bicycle",
and i
don't consider them as safe as either a motorcycle or a bicycle since
they
have enough power to get you into trouble, but the small/inexpensive
ones
don't have the braking or handling to get you out of it.

 i'd encourage you to keep riding the bicycle if you can (it's
better
for you!).
 if you need to extend your range somewhat, consider a small
motorcycle... but be sure you do the math if you're thinking of it
as a
cost saving device; getting dressed to ride safely is going to cost
more
than some people here will spend on a car, and the cost of keeping
good
tires on a motorcycle might surprise some people.


cheers!
e


On 05/Oct/13 13:47, Mitch Haley wrote:

  Most places you can turn left on red onto a one way street.


Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] Sunday OT -- tunes for all you old prog-rock guys

[Gerry Archer]

Interesting!  Arthur D. Little sounds like the kind of creative company that 
developed various item on contract back then.

Gerry

From: "Rich Thomas" 
That retro-reflector was developed by a company called Arthur D. Little, 
Inc. in Cambridge, MA where I got my first real job (and met my wife!).  I 
had the pleasure and privilege to work with some of the engineers who 
developed it and saw it launched and placed on the Moon.  Last I heard it 
was still there and working quite nicely some 40+ years on!  It consisted 
of a bunch of right-angle corner reflectors about 1.5" diameter placed in 
a stand that could be set up and aimed at the Earth more or less.  It did 
provide very accurate measurements, sub-centimeter I think, and was used 
to measure perturbations in the orbit, seismic activity, and various other 
things the scientists could divine.


There were a few of the reflectors in a case in the lobby, and I think 
someone had one of the prototypes in their office.  Wonder what happened 
to that stuff, the company went out of business a few years back, and a 
friend and colleague who attended our wedding was the last president of 
the company, sadly.  At one time there was a laser/telescope on the roof, 
they would go out there and shoot at it just because...


There was also a silk purse in the display that had been made from sow's 
ears.  They also developed the major contribution to western civilization, 
Cap'n Crunch cereal, and a bunch of other really cool stuff.


--R


On 10/6/13 3:17 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:

An
astronomer gave me a private tour, put the huge telescope through it's 
paces
(the whole dome rotates very precisely), and explained their current 
major
project which involved shooting a high powered laser through the 
telescope

at the moon.
The moon astronauts had left highly reflective multisided spheres on the
moon (I was shown one and allowed to hold it); the telescopes laser beam 
was
bounced off the spheres, and the returning beam was intercepted at 
precise

locations within its range.  The purpose was in getting very accurate
measurements of distance between the observatory and the places of
interception; something that was probably impossible to do any other way
back then.



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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[Gerry Archer]

So did I, so being a DIYer even at that young age, I bought a half completed 
angle iron/wheelbarrow wheel motor scooter without a motor that a local 
mechanic had built and then couldn't find a motor for it.  I had a gasoline 
motor out of an old washing machine, so I mounted it, added pedals and 
levers, cranked it up with a pull rope, and headed for the shopping district 
in our small town.  Got almost to the student hangout and the motor froze. 
In a few minutes it cooled enough to start and I "roared" up to the drug 
store since there was no muffler.  Some fellow students were intrigued but 
most thought it was a riot.
The clutch was engaged by sliding the motor via a pedal which tightened the 
drive belt.
There were no brakes, but stopping the motor with a kill switch stopped it 
pretty fast anyway.
Why that motor didn't eventually permanently freeze, I'll never know.  It 
would go about two miles and freeze, cool down, go another two miles, 
freeze, and so on.  An external pushrod operated the exhaust valve, but the 
intake valve was simply spring loaded.


Soon as I got my license and my sister loaned me her car since she couldn't 
find tire during war time, I sold the scooter to a younger kid for $25; much 
to the displeasure of his mother.  Driving the '35 Chevy on tires without 
treads is another story.

Gerry


Yep, and I wanted a Whizzer mighty bad.
Wilt


Gary Hurst wrote:

i really did that old school indian scooter  :)


My dad had a Whizzer motor-bicycle back in the 1940s.
Maybe you need the modern equivalent, a bicycle with electric assist.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[WILTON]

A teenager 3 or 4 years my senior bought one with/for his paper route.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Mitch Haley" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] scooters



WILTON wrote:

Yep, and I wanted a Whizzer mighty bad.


It was used. I can't remember if the paper route paid for it, or if he had 
to wait until he got the job as a 14 year old pinsetter at the bowling 
alley.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Front mats for '83 240D

[Chris James]

Both beige & palomino (MB-Tex/Leather/Velour) upholstery was available
on the later W123's. Highly unlikely that you have leather or velour, so
look for code 154 (palomino Tex) or 155 (beige Tex) on the radiator
cross member build plate.

Mercedes Benz 1983 "MB-Tex, Leather & Velour Upholsteries" Upholstery
Brochure
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-1983-MB-Tex-Leather-Velour-Upholsteries-Upholstery-Brochure-/380727355225



From: "Gerry Archer"  Date: 10/6/2013 3:51
PM


Thanks, Chris!  I should be able to find some here. Got a question
about the Mercedes floor mats on Ebay.  I've heard my wife (who
passed away) call the inside and outside of the '83 240D "biege"
color. The Ebay mats below are "palomino".  Looked palomino up on
the 'net and it seems the color can vary between "light brown" and
golden or darker.  The color of the mats shown on Ebay look pretty
close to the color of the 240D. In your opinion, and/or anyone elses,
is the color shown what Mercedes generally refers to as palomino.  My
"color sense" is close to zero. Gerry



--
Chris J.
MBCA Peachtree section
Past MB Models:
'85 190D 2.2, '94 E420, '87 260E

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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[Mitch Haley]

WILTON wrote:

Yep, and I wanted a Whizzer mighty bad.


It was used. I can't remember if the paper route paid for it, or if he had to 
wait until he got the job as a 14 year old pinsetter at the bowling alley.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[Gary Hurst]

of course you'd need the apostrophe as you've lost an A.

the support for y'all is that it is commonly written and presumed but it is
rendered" ya'll" by falkner.  i guess if you can find me a flannery
o'connor "y'all", i'd feed better about it, but it seems this literary
tradition makes an argument for the other rendering


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:03 PM, WILTON  wrote:

> How's that?  I've always thought "y'all" is for "you all" - the apostrophe
> taking the place of the missing "ou."  That's what this native North
> Carolinian grew up with, anyway.  If I were saying "ya all," I wouldn't
> need the apostrophe.  'Course, one is welcome to use whatever contraction
> he wants.  ;<)
>
> Wilt
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 2:59 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)
>
>
>  it might actually be ya'all
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 2:38 PM, WILTON  wrote:
>>
>>  BTW, that's "y'all," not "ya'll."  ;<)
>>>
>>> Wilton
>>>
>>> - Original Message - From: "WILTON" 
>>>
>>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 10:27 AM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)
>>>
>>>
>>>  OK; after all, not other way to turn, is there?  One should never say
>>>
 "never;" that's a mighty long time.  Same for "always."   ;<)  Well,
 anyway, in NC, left turn on red is generally not allowed, and I don't
 plan
 to test it.  Ya'll are welcome come and try it if ya want; we can put
 your
 money to good use.  Just don't hurt somebody while trying it.  ;<)

 Wilton

 - Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" 
 To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
 Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 12:21 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


  i'd bet you are wrong that lefts on red are never allowed.  you just

> think
> they are not allowed as the circumstances are particular and you may
> never
> have encountered them
>
> imagine you are traveling southbound on a southbound one way street.
> you
> come to a red light at the intersection of an eastbound one way street.
> now your left on red is equivalent to a right on red and it is
> therefore
> likely permitted.  i know it is this way in the state of georgia and
> i'd
> guess in north carolina as well
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:44 PM, WILTON  wrote:
>
>  I'm very familiar with the part of NC traffic law that allows right
> turn
>
>> on red after full stop and sure way is clear - left on red NOT
>> allowed.
>>  When I lived in California (last was 35 years ago), I followed CA
>> traffic
>> laws; during 60+ years of driving in NC, I've tried to follow NC
>> traffic
>> laws. ;<)
>>
>> Wilton
>>
>> - Original Message - From: "ernest breakfield"
>> 
>>
>>
>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
>> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 9:47 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)
>>
>>
>>  if the law in "most places" is like what i'm familiar with in
>> California,
>>
>>  the law doesn't say anything about right or left.
>>> what it says here is that you can make a turn on a red light
>>> after
>>> a
>>> full and complete stop if you can start from a lane nearest the curb
>>> and
>>> end in the lane nearest the (same) curb.
>>>
>>> to the original posters question; you'll have to check the regs
>>> where
>>> you are to determine what qualifies as requiring documentation; it
>>> varies
>>> greatly with locale.
>>> as a bicyclist and motorcyclist, i don't see any use for a
>>> scooter
>>> beyond the possibility of extremely short trips around town. my
>>> experience
>>> around them is that they can't really be "ridden like a bicycle",
>>> and i
>>> don't consider them as safe as either a motorcycle or a bicycle since
>>> they
>>> have enough power to get you into trouble, but the small/inexpensive
>>> ones
>>> don't have the braking or handling to get you out of it.
>>>
>>> i'd encourage you to keep riding the bicycle if you can (it's
>>> better
>>> for you!).
>>> if you need to extend your range somewhat, consider a small
>>> motorcycle... but be sure you do the math if you're thinking of it
>>> as a
>>> cost saving device; getting dressed to ride safely is going to cost
>>> more
>>> than some people here will spend on a car, and the cost of keeping
>>> good
>>> tires on a motorcycle might surprise some people.
>>>
>>>
>>> cheers!
>>> e
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/Oct/13 13:47, Mitch Haley wrote:
>>>
>>>  Most places you can turn left on red onto a 

Re: [MBZ] Front mats for '83 240D

[WILTON]

'Looks like the palomino in my 91 350SDL; 2 sets of 'em went with it to 
Chapel Hill with Tim.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Gerry Archer" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Front mats for '83 240D



Thanks, Chris!  I should be able to find some here.
Got a question about the Mercedes floor mats on Ebay.  I've heard my wife 
(who passed away) call the inside and outside of the '83 240D "biege" 
color. The Ebay mats below are "palomino".  Looked palomino up on the 'net 
and it seems the color can vary between "light brown" and golden or 
darker.  The color of the mats shown on Ebay look pretty close to the 
color of the 240D. In your opinion, and/or anyone elses, is the color 
shown what Mercedes generally refers to as palomino.  My "color sense" is 
close to zero.

Gerry
...
From: "Chris James" 


World Upholstery has custom mats in the original Feintuft material:

http://www.worlduph.com/others/plush_floor_mat/


What appear to be quality custom Coco mats:

http://www.cocomats.com/


And Look what an eBay search pulled up!

Original Mercedes-Benz New Floor Mats W123, 300D, 300TD, 1981-1985
(Available Colors: palomino, blue, and black)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Mercedes-Benz-New-Floor-Mats-W123-300D-300TD-1981-1985-/370706714825?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item564fd790c9&vxp=mtr


I can't vouch for any of these sellers/products, hope it helps 
anyway..





From: "Gerry Archer"  Date: 10/5/2013 6:02
PM


Who sells well fitting, long lasting front mats for '83 240D?  Gary?
 Anyone? Thanks, Gerry



--
Chris J.
MBCA Peachtree section
Past MB Models:
'85 190D 2.2, '94 E420, '87 260E

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Re: [MBZ] Front mats for '83 240D

[Peter Frederick]

"Beige" in MB interiors is Palomino.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[WILTON]

'Zackly.  They're still out there "terrorizing" the rest of us trying to 
dodge 'em.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Frederick" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] scooters


"I've noticed some of 'em go through red lights and commit other  traffic 
infractions and keep right going as if the traffic laws don't  apply to 
them. 'Was about to turn right into my driveway (from right  lane, of 
course) one day few years ago when a scooter whizzed very  fast between my 
car and right curb; if I had not glanced over right  shoulder at last 
second, he mighta been dead or badly hurt lying in my  driveway.


Wilton"

That's why they lost their license in the first place, I suspect.   Crappy 
driving is crappy driving drunk or not.  It's a issue of very  poor 
judgement.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[WILTON]

Yep, and I wanted a Whizzer mighty bad.

Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: "Mitch Haley" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] scooters



Gary Hurst wrote:

i really did that old school indian scooter  :)


My dad had a Whizzer motor-bicycle back in the 1940s.
Maybe you need the modern equivalent, a bicycle with electric assist.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Front mats for '83 240D

[Gerry Archer]

Thanks, Chris!  I should be able to find some here.
Got a question about the Mercedes floor mats on Ebay.  I've heard my wife 
(who passed away) call the inside and outside of the '83 240D "biege" color. 
The Ebay mats below are "palomino".  Looked palomino up on the 'net and it 
seems the color can vary between "light brown" and golden or darker.  The 
color of the mats shown on Ebay look pretty close to the color of the 240D. 
In your opinion, and/or anyone elses, is the color shown what Mercedes 
generally refers to as palomino.  My "color sense" is close to zero.

Gerry
...
From: "Chris James" 


World Upholstery has custom mats in the original Feintuft material:

http://www.worlduph.com/others/plush_floor_mat/


What appear to be quality custom Coco mats:

http://www.cocomats.com/


And Look what an eBay search pulled up!

Original Mercedes-Benz New Floor Mats W123, 300D, 300TD, 1981-1985
(Available Colors: palomino, blue, and black)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Mercedes-Benz-New-Floor-Mats-W123-300D-300TD-1981-1985-/370706714825?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item564fd790c9&vxp=mtr


I can't vouch for any of these sellers/products, hope it helps 
anyway..





From: "Gerry Archer"  Date: 10/5/2013 6:02
PM


Who sells well fitting, long lasting front mats for '83 240D?  Gary?
 Anyone? Thanks, Gerry



--
Chris J.
MBCA Peachtree section
Past MB Models:
'85 190D 2.2, '94 E420, '87 260E

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Re: [MBZ] Sunday OT -- tunes for all you old prog-rock guys

[Rich Thomas]

That retro-reflector was developed by a company called Arthur D. Little, 
Inc. in Cambridge, MA where I got my first real job (and met my wife!).  
I had the pleasure and privilege to work with some of the engineers who 
developed it and saw it launched and placed on the Moon.  Last I heard 
it was still there and working quite nicely some 40+ years on!  It 
consisted of a bunch of right-angle corner reflectors about 1.5" 
diameter placed in a stand that could be set up and aimed at the Earth 
more or less.  It did provide very accurate measurements, sub-centimeter 
I think, and was used to measure perturbations in the orbit, seismic 
activity, and various other things the scientists could divine.


There were a few of the reflectors in a case in the lobby, and I think 
someone had one of the prototypes in their office.  Wonder what happened 
to that stuff, the company went out of business a few years back, and a 
friend and colleague who attended our wedding was the last president of 
the company, sadly.  At one time there was a laser/telescope on the 
roof, they would go out there and shoot at it just because...


There was also a silk purse in the display that had been made from sow's 
ears.  They also developed the major contribution to western 
civilization, Cap'n Crunch cereal, and a bunch of other really cool stuff.


--R


On 10/6/13 3:17 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:

An
astronomer gave me a private tour, put the huge telescope through it's 
paces
(the whole dome rotates very precisely), and explained their current 
major
project which involved shooting a high powered laser through the 
telescope

at the moon.
The moon astronauts had left highly reflective multisided spheres on the
moon (I was shown one and allowed to hold it); the telescopes laser 
beam was
bounced off the spheres, and the returning beam was intercepted at 
precise

locations within its range.  The purpose was in getting very accurate
measurements of distance between the observatory and the places of
interception; something that was probably impossible to do any other way
back then. 



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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[WILTON]

How's that?  I've always thought "y'all" is for "you all" - the apostrophe 
taking the place of the missing "ou."  That's what this native North 
Carolinian grew up with, anyway.  If I were saying "ya all," I wouldn't need 
the apostrophe.  'Course, one is welcome to use whatever contraction he 
wants.  ;<)


Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: "Gary Hurst" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)



it might actually be ya'all


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 2:38 PM, WILTON  wrote:


BTW, that's "y'all," not "ya'll."  ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "WILTON" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 10:27 AM

Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


 OK; after all, not other way to turn, is there?  One should never say

"never;" that's a mighty long time.  Same for "always."   ;<)  Well,
anyway, in NC, left turn on red is generally not allowed, and I don't 
plan
to test it.  Ya'll are welcome come and try it if ya want; we can put 
your

money to good use.  Just don't hurt somebody while trying it.  ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


 i'd bet you are wrong that lefts on red are never allowed.  you just

think
they are not allowed as the circumstances are particular and you may
never
have encountered them

imagine you are traveling southbound on a southbound one way street. 
you

come to a red light at the intersection of an eastbound one way street.
now your left on red is equivalent to a right on red and it is 
therefore
likely permitted.  i know it is this way in the state of georgia and 
i'd

guess in north carolina as well


On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:44 PM, WILTON  wrote:

 I'm very familiar with the part of NC traffic law that allows right 
turn
on red after full stop and sure way is clear - left on red NOT 
allowed.

 When I lived in California (last was 35 years ago), I followed CA
traffic
laws; during 60+ years of driving in NC, I've tried to follow NC 
traffic

laws. ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "ernest breakfield"


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 9:47 PM

Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


 if the law in "most places" is like what i'm familiar with in
California,


the law doesn't say anything about right or left.
what it says here is that you can make a turn on a red light 
after

a
full and complete stop if you can start from a lane nearest the curb
and
end in the lane nearest the (same) curb.

to the original posters question; you'll have to check the regs
where
you are to determine what qualifies as requiring documentation; it
varies
greatly with locale.
as a bicyclist and motorcyclist, i don't see any use for a 
scooter

beyond the possibility of extremely short trips around town. my
experience
around them is that they can't really be "ridden like a bicycle", and 
i

don't consider them as safe as either a motorcycle or a bicycle since
they
have enough power to get you into trouble, but the small/inexpensive
ones
don't have the braking or handling to get you out of it.

i'd encourage you to keep riding the bicycle if you can (it's
better
for you!).
if you need to extend your range somewhat, consider a small
motorcycle... but be sure you do the math if you're thinking of it as 
a

cost saving device; getting dressed to ride safely is going to cost
more
than some people here will spend on a car, and the cost of keeping 
good

tires on a motorcycle might surprise some people.


cheers!
e


On 05/Oct/13 13:47, Mitch Haley wrote:

 Most places you can turn left on red onto a one way street.


Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[Peter Frederick]

"I've noticed some of 'em go through red lights and commit other  
traffic infractions and keep right going as if the traffic laws don't  
apply to them. 'Was about to turn right into my driveway (from right  
lane, of course) one day few years ago when a scooter whizzed very  
fast between my car and right curb; if I had not glanced over right  
shoulder at last second, he mighta been dead or badly hurt lying in my  
driveway.


Wilton"

That's why they lost their license in the first place, I suspect.   
Crappy driving is crappy driving drunk or not.  It's a issue of very  
poor judgement.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Gary Hurst  wrote:

> they have no range
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
>


> > My dad had a Whizzer motor-bicycle back in the 1940s.
> > Maybe you need the modern equivalent, a bicycle with electric assist.
> >
>

I have a Lashout electric mountain bike that will go anywhere from 10-30
miles, depending how hard you push it, before the batteries poop out and
you are left with an ordinary, very heavy, bike to drag around.  The
original batteries are lead-acid, hence the "very heavy."  I've been
contemplating a switch to lithium or NiMH (laptop-computer style)
batteries, but I guess that would require a different charge controller as
well, which seems like a pretty big project.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 6:47 PM, ernest breakfield <
erne...@backyardengineering.org> wrote:

> if the law in "most places" is like what i'm familiar with in California,
> the law doesn't say anything about right or left.
> what it says here is that you can make a turn on a red light after a
> full and complete stop if you can start from a lane nearest the curb and
> end in the lane nearest the (same) curb.
>

Then maybe you should get out more, Ernie, because the law in your
neighboring state of Oregon allows a left turn on red from a two-way street
across the oncoming lane of traffic into a one-way street, which ipso facto
requires switching near-side curbs.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] Sunday OT -- tunes for all you old prog-rock guys

[Gerry Archer]

From: "Rich Thomas" 

Saw this reference

(and check out the linked vid of the telescopes shooting lasers

http://gizmodo.com/whoa-these-sci-fi-laser-shooting-telescopes-are-actual-1441525798



Enjoy y'all old dudes!
--R


Around the late '70s...early '80s I visited the McDonald Observatory in
Southwest Texas.  It was tourist off-season and I was the only visitor.  An
astronomer gave me a private tour, put the huge telescope through it's paces
(the whole dome rotates very precisely), and explained their current major
project which involved shooting a high powered laser through the telescope
at the moon.
The moon astronauts had left highly reflective multisided spheres on the
moon (I was shown one and allowed to hold it); the telescopes laser beam was
bounced off the spheres, and the returning beam was intercepted at precise
locations within its range.  The purpose was in getting very accurate
measurements of distance between the observatory and the places of
interception; something that was probably impossible to do any other way
back then.

Since it was noontime and the nearest restaurant was a long drive, he
invited me to lunch.  The only "restaurant" I've ever been in that was
comparable was a UF cafeteria full of noisy students.  Each place setting
had pencils, pens, and a pad.  Half of the 20-30 people there were either
writing furiously on their pads or loudly arguing with each other.  One
sitting next to me suddenly turned, stuck out his hand, and said, "I'm
doctor ___ and you are?  "A tourist.", I replied.  "Oh", said the prof
and immediately went back to his writing.
Gerry

http://www.as.utexas.edu/astronomy/astronomy.html 



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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[Gary Hurst]

they have no range


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Gary Hurst wrote:
>
>> i really did that old school indian scooter  :)
>>
>
> My dad had a Whizzer motor-bicycle back in the 1940s.
> Maybe you need the modern equivalent, a bicycle with electric assist.
>
> Mitch.
>
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[Mitch Haley]

Gary Hurst wrote:

i really did that old school indian scooter  :)


My dad had a Whizzer motor-bicycle back in the 1940s.
Maybe you need the modern equivalent, a bicycle with electric assist.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[Mitch Haley]

Peter Frederick wrote:

Unlicensed scooter drivers are real pestilence.  I suspect they will 
vanish soon, if only because the police and insurance companies demand it.


When I worked at the Honda shop in the mid 1980s, people would buy their sub-16 
year old a Spree, put a moped sticker on it, and turn them loose. The kid would 
total it, and the folks would file a claim on their homeowner's insurance for 
it. One time a kid came in with a $4xx insurance check to fix his Spree when we 
were selling them for $435. I sent him with his check to the owner, who took the 
check and the wreck and gave him a new one. It wasn't until I owned a house that 
I got to wondering how many kids did that and how much it cost the rest of us 
for insurance that wasn't really meant to cover motor vehicles.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[Gary Hurst]

it might actually be ya'all


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 2:38 PM, WILTON  wrote:

> BTW, that's "y'all," not "ya'll."  ;<)
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "WILTON" 
>
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 10:27 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)
>
>
>  OK; after all, not other way to turn, is there?  One should never say
>> "never;" that's a mighty long time.  Same for "always."   ;<)  Well,
>> anyway, in NC, left turn on red is generally not allowed, and I don't plan
>> to test it.  Ya'll are welcome come and try it if ya want; we can put your
>> money to good use.  Just don't hurt somebody while trying it.  ;<)
>>
>> Wilton
>>
>> - Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" 
>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
>> Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 12:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)
>>
>>
>>  i'd bet you are wrong that lefts on red are never allowed.  you just
>>> think
>>> they are not allowed as the circumstances are particular and you may
>>> never
>>> have encountered them
>>>
>>> imagine you are traveling southbound on a southbound one way street.  you
>>> come to a red light at the intersection of an eastbound one way street.
>>> now your left on red is equivalent to a right on red and it is therefore
>>> likely permitted.  i know it is this way in the state of georgia and i'd
>>> guess in north carolina as well
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:44 PM, WILTON  wrote:
>>>
>>>  I'm very familiar with the part of NC traffic law that allows right turn
 on red after full stop and sure way is clear - left on red NOT allowed.
  When I lived in California (last was 35 years ago), I followed CA
 traffic
 laws; during 60+ years of driving in NC, I've tried to follow NC traffic
 laws. ;<)

 Wilton

 - Original Message - From: "ernest breakfield"
 

 To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
 Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 9:47 PM

 Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


  if the law in "most places" is like what i'm familiar with in
 California,

> the law doesn't say anything about right or left.
> what it says here is that you can make a turn on a red light after
> a
> full and complete stop if you can start from a lane nearest the curb
> and
> end in the lane nearest the (same) curb.
>
> to the original posters question; you'll have to check the regs
> where
> you are to determine what qualifies as requiring documentation; it
> varies
> greatly with locale.
> as a bicyclist and motorcyclist, i don't see any use for a scooter
> beyond the possibility of extremely short trips around town. my
> experience
> around them is that they can't really be "ridden like a bicycle", and i
> don't consider them as safe as either a motorcycle or a bicycle since
> they
> have enough power to get you into trouble, but the small/inexpensive
> ones
> don't have the braking or handling to get you out of it.
>
> i'd encourage you to keep riding the bicycle if you can (it's
> better
> for you!).
> if you need to extend your range somewhat, consider a small
> motorcycle... but be sure you do the math if you're thinking of it as a
> cost saving device; getting dressed to ride safely is going to cost
> more
> than some people here will spend on a car, and the cost of keeping good
> tires on a motorcycle might surprise some people.
>
>
> cheers!
> e
>
>
> On 05/Oct/13 13:47, Mitch Haley wrote:
>
>  Most places you can turn left on red onto a one way street.
>>
>> Mitch.
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[WILTON]

BTW, that's "y'all," not "ya'll."  ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "WILTON" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


OK; after all, not other way to turn, is there?  One should never say 
"never;" that's a mighty long time.  Same for "always."   ;<)  Well, 
anyway, in NC, left turn on red is generally not allowed, and I don't plan 
to test it.  Ya'll are welcome come and try it if ya want; we can put your 
money to good use.  Just don't hurt somebody while trying it.  ;<)


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Gary Hurst" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


i'd bet you are wrong that lefts on red are never allowed.  you just 
think
they are not allowed as the circumstances are particular and you may 
never

have encountered them

imagine you are traveling southbound on a southbound one way street.  you
come to a red light at the intersection of an eastbound one way street.
now your left on red is equivalent to a right on red and it is therefore
likely permitted.  i know it is this way in the state of georgia and i'd
guess in north carolina as well


On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:44 PM, WILTON  wrote:


I'm very familiar with the part of NC traffic law that allows right turn
on red after full stop and sure way is clear - left on red NOT allowed.
 When I lived in California (last was 35 years ago), I followed CA 
traffic

laws; during 60+ years of driving in NC, I've tried to follow NC traffic
laws. ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "ernest breakfield"


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 9:47 PM

Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


 if the law in "most places" is like what i'm familiar with in 
California,

the law doesn't say anything about right or left.
what it says here is that you can make a turn on a red light after 
a
full and complete stop if you can start from a lane nearest the curb 
and

end in the lane nearest the (same) curb.

to the original posters question; you'll have to check the regs 
where
you are to determine what qualifies as requiring documentation; it 
varies

greatly with locale.
as a bicyclist and motorcyclist, i don't see any use for a scooter
beyond the possibility of extremely short trips around town. my 
experience

around them is that they can't really be "ridden like a bicycle", and i
don't consider them as safe as either a motorcycle or a bicycle since 
they
have enough power to get you into trouble, but the small/inexpensive 
ones

don't have the braking or handling to get you out of it.

i'd encourage you to keep riding the bicycle if you can (it's 
better

for you!).
if you need to extend your range somewhat, consider a small
motorcycle... but be sure you do the math if you're thinking of it as a
cost saving device; getting dressed to ride safely is going to cost 
more

than some people here will spend on a car, and the cost of keeping good
tires on a motorcycle might surprise some people.


cheers!
e


On 05/Oct/13 13:47, Mitch Haley wrote:


Most places you can turn left on red onto a one way street.

Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[Gary Hurst]

i really did that old school indian scooter  :)


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Rick Hawkins Java  wrote:

> Gary
>
> I've been selling motor scooters for almost 15 years.
>
> Given your weight, i'd suggest a 150cc scooter if you plan to go any
> distance.
>
> 50 cc scooters are mostly slow. I sell some inexpensive chinese bikes
> (peace sports brand . actually the brand is Chongqing Astronautic
> Bashan Motorcycle Manufacturing Co., Ltd.) They are pretty good IF you do
> the service and maintenance.
>
> The 50cc ones are great for under 15 mile sort of trips, but over 200 lbs
> is a load
>
> The 50cc models go maybe 35 mph top speed
>
> The 150cc will do 55 mph.
>
> Better brands are a lot better
>
> I sold Bajaj
>
> The bajaj chetak is bullet proof but there are parts supply issues in usa
> on these
>
> Yamaha zuma 2 stroke 50 are fast and strong
>
> I like the TGB and Kymco People (50cc and 150cc) Genuine Buddy and of
> course the hondas
>
> Buy the tag and pay the insurance and get the motorcycle license and ride
> a 150cc is my advice
>
> What I would get? Bajaj or Kymco People
>
> 706 540-3285 if you want to discuss
> thanks,
>
> xx rick
> Rick Hawkins
>
> www.javaphoto.com
> www.javacycles.com
> LETTERPRESSES FOR SALE
> www.ricktheprinter.com
> www.letterpressmachinery.com
>
> payment by all major credit cards or by paypal
>
> Java Photo
> Java Bajaj Cycles
> 215 Bryan Street
> Athens, Georgia 30601
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[Gary Hurst]

this interesting but it talks about license, not registration.  i have a
driver's license but i don't want the scooter registered.  i'm looking for
an intermediate mode of transportation when i am alone.  the car is really
for others, but bicycle limits me to about to 10 miles around me.


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 1:26 PM, MG  wrote:

> When my oldest daughter was going to school about 5 years in Gainesville,
> fl she got a 50cc Yamaha Zuma scooter, it did go about 42-45 mph and it did
> have to be licensed. She didn't have to get insurance since she wore a
> helmet but as far as I know any scooter on the public roads needs to be
> licensed here in Fl. I
>
> Look here for all the pertinent info for scooters in Florida.
>
> http://www.husseinandwebber.**com/florida-license-mopeds-**bicycles.html
>
> In any case a scooter with 350 lbs on probably won't go more then 25 mph
> anyway, except down hill. There is a guy in Gainesville who looks to be
> that size (looked like a bear on a bicycle in the circus) who is always
> holding up traffic. I have even seen him walking the thing up a hill in
> town once.
>
> Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 14:53:36 -0400
> From: Gary Hurst 
>
> i want to get a scooter to be a little runabout when the distances are a
> little long for the bicycle but i still don't want to drive a car.  i don't
> want to mess with licensing or insurance or anything but i do want
> something i can actually take on a trip of a few hundred miles even. is
> this a problem that lends itself to a solution, especially when one
> considers my 350lbs+ girth?
>
> if i just got a bigger scooter, say, 150cc, and didn't bother to mess with
> licensing and such, would i stand to have issues or nobody would care? can
> an under 50 cc do the job described above, even it is is is done not so
> well?
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[Jim Cathey]

if the law in "most places" is like what i'm familiar with in 
California, the law doesn't say anything about right or left.


In WA, you can make a right, or a left onto a oneway.  The
rule seems to be that you can't cross an opposing, active
lane of traffic.  Lotsa people don't seem to know about
the free left turn option.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Front mats for '83 240D

[Chris James]

World Upholstery has custom mats in the original Feintuft material:

http://www.worlduph.com/others/plush_floor_mat/


What appear to be quality custom Coco mats:

http://www.cocomats.com/


And Look what an eBay search pulled up!

Original Mercedes-Benz New Floor Mats W123, 300D, 300TD, 1981-1985
(Available Colors: palomino, blue, and black)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Mercedes-Benz-New-Floor-Mats-W123-300D-300TD-1981-1985-/370706714825?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item564fd790c9&vxp=mtr


I can't vouch for any of these sellers/products, hope it helps anyway..




From: "Gerry Archer"  Date: 10/5/2013 6:02
PM


Who sells well fitting, long lasting front mats for '83 240D?  Gary?
 Anyone? Thanks, Gerry



--
Chris J.
MBCA Peachtree section
Past MB Models:
'85 190D 2.2, '94 E420, '87 260E

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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[WILTON]

'Same here - "liquorcycle" or "whiskeycycle."

Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: "Rich Thomas" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] scooters


Around here we call them "liquorcycles" because when a guy gets busted 
for DUI and loses his license, they can go get a liquorcycle to ride 
around on until they get their license back.


It is interesting to see a guy carrying a case of Bud Light while riding 
one of those things.


--R


On 10/6/13 1:22 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:
Unlicensed scooter drivers are real pestilence.  I suspect they will 
vanish soon, if only because the police and insurance companies demand 
it.


Peter 



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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[WILTON]

I've noticed some of 'em go through red lights and commit other traffic 
infractions and keep right going as if the traffic laws don't apply to them. 
'Was about to turn right into my driveway (from right lane, of course) one 
day few years ago when a scooter whizzed very fast between my car and right 
curb; if I had not glanced over right shoulder at last second, he mighta 
been dead or badly hurt lying in my driveway.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Frederick" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] scooters


In Indiana, if it's more than 50cc displacement, it's a motorcycle and 
all the rules apply (license, insurance, etc).  If it goes over 25 mph 
it's a motorcycle.


In Ohio, if it has a motor it's a motorcycle and requires the  appropriate 
licenses, insurance, and a helmet, I think.


Unlicensed scooter drivers are real pestilence.  I suspect they will 
vanish soon, if only because the police and insurance companies demand 
it.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[Rich Thomas]

Around here we call them "liquorcycles" because when a guy gets busted 
for DUI and loses his license, they can go get a liquorcycle to ride 
around on until they get their license back.


It is interesting to see a guy carrying a case of Bud Light while riding 
one of those things.


--R


On 10/6/13 1:22 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:
Unlicensed scooter drivers are real pestilence.  I suspect they will 
vanish soon, if only because the police and insurance companies demand 
it.


Peter 



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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[MG]

When my oldest daughter was going to school about 5 years in 
Gainesville, fl she got a 50cc Yamaha Zuma scooter, it did go 
about 42-45 mph and it did have to be licensed. She didn't have 
to get insurance since she wore a helmet but as far as I know any 
scooter on the public roads needs to be licensed here in Fl. I


Look here for all the pertinent info for scooters in Florida.

http://www.husseinandwebber.com/florida-license-mopeds-bicycles.html

In any case a scooter with 350 lbs on probably won't go more then 
25 mph anyway, except down hill. There is a guy in Gainesville 
who looks to be that size (looked like a bear on a bicycle in the 
circus) who is always holding up traffic. I have even seen him 
walking the thing up a hill in town once.


Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 14:53:36 -0400
From: Gary Hurst 

i want to get a scooter to be a little runabout when the 
distances are a
little long for the bicycle but i still don't want to drive a 
car.  i don't

want to mess with licensing or insurance or anything but i do want
something i can actually take on a trip of a few hundred miles 
even. is

this a problem that lends itself to a solution, especially when one
considers my 350lbs+ girth?

if i just got a bigger scooter, say, 150cc, and didn't bother to 
mess with
licensing and such, would i stand to have issues or nobody would 
care? can
an under 50 cc do the job described above, even it is is is done 
not so

well?

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Re: [MBZ] scooters

[Peter Frederick]

In Indiana, if it's more than 50cc displacement, it's a motorcycle and  
all the rules apply (license, insurance, etc).  If it goes over 25 mph  
it's a motorcycle.


In Ohio, if it has a motor it's a motorcycle and requires the  
appropriate licenses, insurance, and a helmet, I think.


Unlicensed scooter drivers are real pestilence.  I suspect they will  
vanish soon, if only because the police and insurance companies demand  
it.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[Darren Marshall]

Yes like gas mileage, my passport gets 100mpg

Darren

> On Oct 5, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Gary Hurst  wrote:
> 
> i seem set on seeing this for myself if it is practical to make work on the
> terms outlined.  scooters are pretty big down here and they make sense on
> some level
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 7:08 PM,  wrote:
>> 
>> Because they go faster. They are not worth the risk, especially if you
>> have kids that can lose a dad. Trust me on this one!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 5, 2013, at 6:29 PM, Gary Hurst  wrote:
>>> 
>>> how can they be more dangerous than a bicycle if they are ridden like
>> one?
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 6:26 PM,  wrote:
 
 Don't bother. Those are seriously dangerous.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 5, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Gary Hurst  wrote:
> 
> i want to get a scooter to be a little runabout when the distances are
>> a
> little long for the bicycle but i still don't want to drive a car.  i
 don't
> want to mess with licensing or insurance or anything but i do want
> something i can actually take on a trip of a few hundred miles even. is
> this a problem that lends itself to a solution, especially when one
> considers my 350lbs+ girth?
> 
> if i just got a bigger scooter, say, 150cc, and didn't bother to mess
 with
> licensing and such, would i stand to have issues or nobody would care?
 can
> an under 50 cc do the job described above, even it is is is done not so
> well?
> 
> --
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> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] 5 speed 722.6 trouble

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Mine was in limp mode and had a broken spring. I also replaced the plate so not 
sure which was the actual cause

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 6, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>> Did he also replace the springs?
> 
> Good idea, but it sounds like the pressure regulator spring just makes it 
> slip, not lock into 2nd for limp home.
> 
> This is a 2000 e320 4matic (yes, the Benzworld one), and I think the spring 
> problem is only on 1999 and earlier.
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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[MBZ] scooters

[Rick Hawkins Java]

Gary

I've been selling motor scooters for almost 15 years.

Given your weight, i'd suggest a 150cc scooter if you plan to go any  
distance.


50 cc scooters are mostly slow. I sell some inexpensive chinese bikes  
(peace sports brand . actually the brand is Chongqing Astronautic  
Bashan Motorcycle Manufacturing Co., Ltd.) They are pretty good IF you  
do the service and maintenance.


The 50cc ones are great for under 15 mile sort of trips, but over 200  
lbs is a load


The 50cc models go maybe 35 mph top speed

The 150cc will do 55 mph.

Better brands are a lot better

I sold Bajaj

The bajaj chetak is bullet proof but there are parts supply issues in  
usa on these


Yamaha zuma 2 stroke 50 are fast and strong

I like the TGB and Kymco People (50cc and 150cc) Genuine Buddy and of  
course the hondas


Buy the tag and pay the insurance and get the motorcycle license and  
ride a 150cc is my advice


What I would get? Bajaj or Kymco People

706 540-3285 if you want to discuss
thanks,

xx rick
Rick Hawkins

www.javaphoto.com
www.javacycles.com
LETTERPRESSES FOR SALE
www.ricktheprinter.com
www.letterpressmachinery.com

payment by all major credit cards or by paypal

Java Photo
Java Bajaj Cycles
215 Bryan Street
Athens, Georgia 30601
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Re: [MBZ] 5 speed 722.6 trouble

[Mitch Haley]

Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Did he also replace the springs?


Good idea, but it sounds like the pressure regulator spring just makes it slip, 
not lock into 2nd for limp home.


This is a 2000 e320 4matic (yes, the Benzworld one), and I think the spring 
problem is only on 1999 and earlier.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] 5 speed 722.6 trouble

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Did he also replace the springs?

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> What do you guys make of this?
> Here's the owner's description of his woes, he bought a w210 car with a flaky 
> transmission and thought it would be an easy fix:
> 
> I put a new conductor plate in it and cleaned up the valve body and put new 
> trans fluid in it. I have a Chinese clone STAR system and it still indicated 
> a ME2 "Read ETC" Current Fault as well as stored faults for all of the 
> solenoids, speed sensors, etc. Thinking it might be a harness issue between 
> the trans module and the 13 pin plug, I made an LED tester and the harness 
> checks out OK. The problem appears to be either a bad ME2 or ETC module. When 
> I drill down into the fault memory pages, there is an "Open Circuit - Yes/No" 
> Indicated. The trans had quite a bit of graphite-like sludge so I thought the 
> conductor plate might have shorted out, but it looks like a module or canbus 
> connector issue to me. I haven't done all of the resistance checks to the 
> various components and I don't have the "Mushroom" multi-connector module for 
> troubleshooting, although it can be done at the connectors with a chart. My 
> system can't download firmware and flash nodules.
> 
> Because I thought it might still be a bad connection at the 13 pin connector, 
> I tried tightening the bolt "just a little more" and I think I broke the 
> captive nut out of the conductor plate.
> 
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[MBZ] Sunday OT -- tunes for all you old prog-rock guys

[Rich Thomas]

Saw this reference 
http://gizmodo.com/god-is-an-astronaut-echoes-1441616502  (and check out 
the linked vid of the telescopes shooting lasers 
http://gizmodo.com/whoa-these-sci-fi-laser-shooting-telescopes-are-actual-1441525798 
) and thought to listen to them, I really like it.  On Spotify in the 
laser vid link, you can listen to it with just a coupla annoying ads.


I have an old Mogwai CD somewhere too, interesting stuff.  There is also 
a band mentioned, turns out from Texas, that one of our young lady 
guides in Patagonia was listening to and suggested I check it out, 
called This Will Destroy You, that is quite nice too.


Enjoy y'all old dudes!

--R






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[MBZ] 5 speed 722.6 trouble

[Mitch Haley]

What do you guys make of this?
Here's the owner's description of his woes, he bought a w210 car with a flaky 
transmission and thought it would be an easy fix:


I put a new conductor plate in it and cleaned up the valve body and put new 
trans fluid in it. I have a Chinese clone STAR system and it still indicated a 
ME2 "Read ETC" Current Fault as well as stored faults for all of the solenoids, 
speed sensors, etc. Thinking it might be a harness issue between the trans 
module and the 13 pin plug, I made an LED tester and the harness checks out OK. 
The problem appears to be either a bad ME2 or ETC module. When I drill down into 
the fault memory pages, there is an "Open Circuit - Yes/No" Indicated. The trans 
had quite a bit of graphite-like sludge so I thought the conductor plate might 
have shorted out, but it looks like a module or canbus connector issue to me. I 
haven't done all of the resistance checks to the various components and I don't 
have the "Mushroom" multi-connector module for troubleshooting, although it can 
be done at the connectors with a chart. My system can't download firmware and 
flash nodules.


Because I thought it might still be a bad connection at the 13 pin connector, I 
tried tightening the bolt "just a little more" and I think I broke the captive 
nut out of the conductor plate.


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[MBZ] Four-legged, DARPA-funded, running war robot unveiled (VIDEO)

[Gerry Archer]

Developers at Boston Dynamics, an engineering company specializing in 
robotics, have released video of an untethered robot capable of standing and 
mobilizing on its own.
WildCat is a four-legged outdoor runner capable of rising, turning, and 
reaching running speeds up to 16 mph on flat ground.


WildCat is a close cousin to Boston Dynamics' Cheetah, another quadrupedal 
robot that was unveiled a year ago, running at speeds over 28 mph on a 
treadmill - quicker than world's fastest man Usain Bolt's top speed of 27.78 
mph. However, unlike WildCat, Cheetah was connected to a power source.


The runner carries a large - and very loud - motor to operate its four 
limbs, though the weight hampers its speed and agility.


Boston Dynamics has not detailed what is next for WildCat, but it is known 
to have been developed for military use, as the project is part of the 
Maximum Mobility and Manipulation Program funded by the Defense Advanced 
Research Projects Agency, or DARPA.


 http://rt.com/usa/running-war-robot-darpa-754/

Gerry wrote:
IMO this thing is seriously funny when it's galloping, running, etc.  If 
they ever build one with a saddle, riding it around would be a blast.  For 
military use, the army could revive the cavalry and even go back to King 
Arthurs era with jousting knights. 



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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[Mitch Haley]

WILTON wrote:

'Found nothing allowing left turn on any type of red light signal - STOP 
sign, yes, but red "ball," solid red arrow, flashing red arrow - no.


You're right, I can't find anything permitting left on red in NC under any 
circumstances.


Here's the situation in Michigan, which I think makes more sense:
http://www.annarbor.com/news/more-about-turns-on-red/

Drivers can make a right turn on a red traffic signal from a one-way or two-way 
street onto a one-way or two-way street. Drivers also can make a left turn on a 
red traffic signal from a one-way or two-way street onto a one-way street only.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[WILTON]

'Just hurriedly went through NCDMV Driver's Handbook looking especially in 
"Traffic Signals" area.  Following is quoted:  "A steady red circular signal 
means "STOP." Unless there is a sign indicating
"NO TURN ON RED," a right turn can be made after coming to a complete stop. 
All vehicles turning right shall yield the right of way to other traffic and 
pedestrians using the intersection and to pedestrians in reasonably close 
proximity to the intersection and who are starting to cross in front of the
traffic that is required to stop at the red light. Failure to yield to a 
pedestrian under these circumstances will result in a penalty of not more 
than $500 and not less than $100."


'Found nothing allowing left turn on any type of red light signal - STOP 
sign, yes, but red "ball," solid red arrow, flashing red arrow - no.


Yeah, I know, this may not be 100% absolutely all inclusive, but that's 
what's in Driver Handbook.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "WILTON" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


OK; after all, not other way to turn, is there?  One should never say 
"never;" that's a mighty long time.  Same for "always."   ;<)  Well, 
anyway, in NC, left turn on red is generally not allowed, and I don't plan 
to test it.  Ya'll are welcome come and try it if ya want; we can put your 
money to good use.  Just don't hurt somebody while trying it.  ;<)


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Gary Hurst" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


i'd bet you are wrong that lefts on red are never allowed.  you just 
think
they are not allowed as the circumstances are particular and you may 
never

have encountered them

imagine you are traveling southbound on a southbound one way street.  you
come to a red light at the intersection of an eastbound one way street.
now your left on red is equivalent to a right on red and it is therefore
likely permitted.  i know it is this way in the state of georgia and i'd
guess in north carolina as well


On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:44 PM, WILTON  wrote:


I'm very familiar with the part of NC traffic law that allows right turn
on red after full stop and sure way is clear - left on red NOT allowed.
 When I lived in California (last was 35 years ago), I followed CA 
traffic

laws; during 60+ years of driving in NC, I've tried to follow NC traffic
laws. ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "ernest breakfield"


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 9:47 PM

Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


 if the law in "most places" is like what i'm familiar with in 
California,

the law doesn't say anything about right or left.
what it says here is that you can make a turn on a red light after 
a
full and complete stop if you can start from a lane nearest the curb 
and

end in the lane nearest the (same) curb.

to the original posters question; you'll have to check the regs 
where
you are to determine what qualifies as requiring documentation; it 
varies

greatly with locale.
as a bicyclist and motorcyclist, i don't see any use for a scooter
beyond the possibility of extremely short trips around town. my 
experience

around them is that they can't really be "ridden like a bicycle", and i
don't consider them as safe as either a motorcycle or a bicycle since 
they
have enough power to get you into trouble, but the small/inexpensive 
ones

don't have the braking or handling to get you out of it.

i'd encourage you to keep riding the bicycle if you can (it's 
better

for you!).
if you need to extend your range somewhat, consider a small
motorcycle... but be sure you do the math if you're thinking of it as a
cost saving device; getting dressed to ride safely is going to cost 
more

than some people here will spend on a car, and the cost of keeping good
tires on a motorcycle might surprise some people.


cheers!
e


On 05/Oct/13 13:47, Mitch Haley wrote:


Most places you can turn left on red onto a one way street.

Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[WILTON]

OK; after all, not other way to turn, is there?  One should never say 
"never;" that's a mighty long time.  Same for "always."   ;<)  Well, anyway, 
in NC, left turn on red is generally not allowed, and I don't plan to test 
it.  Ya'll are welcome come and try it if ya want; we can put your money to 
good use.  Just don't hurt somebody while trying it.  ;<)


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Gary Hurst" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)



i'd bet you are wrong that lefts on red are never allowed.  you just think
they are not allowed as the circumstances are particular and you may never
have encountered them

imagine you are traveling southbound on a southbound one way street.  you
come to a red light at the intersection of an eastbound one way street.
now your left on red is equivalent to a right on red and it is therefore
likely permitted.  i know it is this way in the state of georgia and i'd
guess in north carolina as well


On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:44 PM, WILTON  wrote:


I'm very familiar with the part of NC traffic law that allows right turn
on red after full stop and sure way is clear - left on red NOT allowed.
 When I lived in California (last was 35 years ago), I followed CA 
traffic

laws; during 60+ years of driving in NC, I've tried to follow NC traffic
laws. ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "ernest breakfield"


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 9:47 PM

Subject: Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)


 if the law in "most places" is like what i'm familiar with in 
California,

the law doesn't say anything about right or left.
what it says here is that you can make a turn on a red light after a
full and complete stop if you can start from a lane nearest the curb and
end in the lane nearest the (same) curb.

to the original posters question; you'll have to check the regs 
where
you are to determine what qualifies as requiring documentation; it 
varies

greatly with locale.
as a bicyclist and motorcyclist, i don't see any use for a scooter
beyond the possibility of extremely short trips around town. my 
experience

around them is that they can't really be "ridden like a bicycle", and i
don't consider them as safe as either a motorcycle or a bicycle since 
they
have enough power to get you into trouble, but the small/inexpensive 
ones

don't have the braking or handling to get you out of it.

i'd encourage you to keep riding the bicycle if you can (it's better
for you!).
if you need to extend your range somewhat, consider a small
motorcycle... but be sure you do the math if you're thinking of it as a
cost saving device; getting dressed to ride safely is going to cost more
than some people here will spend on a car, and the cost of keeping good
tires on a motorcycle might surprise some people.


cheers!
e


On 05/Oct/13 13:47, Mitch Haley wrote:


Most places you can turn left on red onto a one way street.

Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] question for scooter guy (or anyone else)

[Gerry Archer]

This is the one I'd buy were I younger.  Claims to be able to keep up with
freeway traffic;
liquid cooled, fuel injected, 100 mpg.  With training wheels I could
probably ride one now.

 http://powersports.honda.com/2013/pcx.aspx

Gerry

From: "Gary Hurst" 

ok, but if you are going from place to place in a flat area? say like a 10
mile ride?  you'd average what?  at least 20, no?

On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 11:20 PM, Benz Hogs 
wrote:

30-34mph if I'm in 100% sprint mode.

Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 "Max" (171,xxx mi)


On 10/5/2013 5:38 PM, Gary Hurst wrote:

not really.  zippy probably does about 20 to 25 on his bike which is
probably about what this scooter might do with me on it



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Re: [MBZ] Front mats for '83 240D

[Gerry Archer]

Couldn't find a website for true Mercedes mats.  All sorts of websites
claiming to be at all sorts of prices, but were probably copies.
Gerry

From: "Dan Penoff" 

Does Mercedes still sell the really nice carpeted mats like they used to?
They weren't that expensive considering the quality.


On Oct 5, 2013, at 7:44 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:



- Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" 

i had original cocomats.  they were fairly useless.  the new ones are
better?
i'm just so not a trim guy mentally but, obviously, i'll look into
whether
anyone i deal with has anything to say about floor mats


*Thanks, Gary.
Gerry



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Re: [MBZ] Adventure of the day

[Gerry Archer]

It looks that way but it seems to be intended for inside the car instead of
engines and  chassis.  Prices seem to start about $500 for the heavy duty
models.  Guess I'll just suffer along with the pressure washer in the midst
of grease, dirt, parts cleaner, and water.
Thanks,
Gerry


Griot's Garage has one that is really nice.  Loaded out with all sorts of
goodness
clay

On Oct 4, 2013, at 2:26 PM, m...@voyager.net wrote:


Thanks.  Didn't know they were made that small.  I'll check Ebay and the
'net.
Gerry


A friend of mine has one of the bigger ones, uses it to sanitize
foreclosed houses and strip wallpaper.

Mitch.


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