Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
Donald wrote executive orders preventing drilling in WAY too many places Hi Donald - A couple of questions - Is it possible for Bush to sign an EO to open Anwar and the coasts to drilling? Or were clintons EOs followed by congressonal legislation?? If we started actively drilling I bet the markets would react quickly and prices would drop long before the oil actually got to market. Also - this is where I think States Rights really got hurt - why can't Va open her coast to drilling - I'd even support Va residents get 1st shot at the oil with unneeded oil going to other areas - but that might not be workable. ;-) \\\ BUT! The citizens of Va *should* decide what happens in her coastal waters - not representatives from other states.. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault Bill R. wrote: I had an 'interesting' conversation with a conservative a couple of months ago. He was absolutely convinced that none of the current problems have anything to do with Bush, but were all actually the fault of Clinton. Here is another conservative offering another perspective. The problem with Clinton is that he wants to take credit for all of the good things that happened and no responsibility for the bad. President Bush operates in about the same way, but he doesn't do it with the self-righteous intellectual elitism that Clinton does. BUT, I think most of the problems have little do with Clinton or Bush. Most of the problems are the fault of the Congress. Congress has had two modes recently. They have passed idiotic legislation that doesn't help the situation or they have done nothing and tried to blame the other side for doing nothing. Congress' failures have only been multiplied since Speaker Pelosi has taken over. How many times does the house need to have another vote to establish a withdrawal date for Iraq when each time it failed. The house once had three votes on the issue in one week. Each was soundly defeated and NONE of them if they had passed was going to make it past a presidential veto. It is all about posturing for the constituents rather getting anything done. I think President Clinton deserves some credit for some of what he was able to accomplish. I also think President Bush deserves some credit for things he has been able to do. BUT, Congress has the real power and they have squandered most of it. P.S. I do think part of the blame for the gas prices rests with President Clinton. He signed WAY too many executive orders preventing drilling in WAY too many places. In 1998, he said that ANWAR would be off-limits and he justified his decision by saying that it would take 8 years to get the oil out of the ground and into the stream of commerce. I don't know about you, but I sure do wish that 8 years ago, we had done that. Because it would still be paying off right now. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
BUT! The citizens of Va *should* decide what happens in her coastal waters - not representatives from other states.. So long as VA's actions don't impinge upon NC, for example. But the possibility of a nice drifting oil slick carries the question right into Federal jurisdiction, and probably rightly so. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
There isn't enough oil in ANWAR to make a bit of difference. That field in North Dakota is supposed to be way bigger and even bigger than they thought and it hasn't done a thing to the price of oil... BTW gas prices have been climbing steadily here, up to $4.09 now. Diesel hasn't risen at all, $4.89. I'd heard that the refineries were going to bias production more toward diesel, looks like thats actually happening. I'd like it to happen a bit more so I can lock in a lower heating fuel price! -Curt Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:16:28 -0400 From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Donald wrote executive orders preventing drilling in WAY too many places Hi Donald - A couple of questions - Is it possible for Bush to sign an EO to open Anwar and the coasts to drilling? Or were clintons EOs followed by congressonal legislation?? If we started actively drilling I bet the markets would react quickly and prices would drop long before the oil actually got to market. Also - this is where I think States Rights really got hurt - why can't Va open her coast to drilling - I'd even support Va residents get 1st shot at the oil with unneeded oil going to other areas - but that might not be workable. ;-) \\\ BUT! The citizens of Va *should* decide what happens in her coastal waters - not representatives from other states.. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
I understand the worry when you say the possibility of a nice drifting oil slick but consider the fact that when Katrina and the other huricane (never can real the name) roared thru the Gulf of Mex and damaged thousands of oil rigs with zero oil slicks - at least the main stream media didn't report any - and they usually gleefully report anything that supports their agenda to prevent US oil drilling. Just like they use any shooting as an excuse to wave their anti-gun flag agenda. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault BUT! The citizens of Va *should* decide what happens in her coastal waters - not representatives from other states.. So long as VA's actions don't impinge upon NC, for example. But the possibility of a nice drifting oil slick carries the question right into Federal jurisdiction, and probably rightly so. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
curt wrote There isn't enough oil in ANWAR to make a bit of difference Not sure why you would say that - unless you're believing the demorat publicity. according to http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2008/05/02/72167068 there is estimated 9 billion to 16 billion barrels of oil in Anwar. According to http://energy.senate.gov/legislation/energybill/charts/chart8.pdf the US uses approx 21 million barrels per day that equates to between 428 days and 761 days - or between 14 months and 25 months - but the real benefit will be to show the world's oil producers we can and *will* produce our own oil. Add the above 1-2 year supply - from JUST Anwar - the oil reserves in the US and off our coasts it is possible for us to be oil independent. We need to drill here, drill now and while we enjoy our resources we can be looking for alternatives. For years we've heard cheap oil keeps alternatives from being workable - well, we no longer have cheap oil - IMO we haven;t since the 60s when it was $.30/gal - and we are not seeing realistic alternatives. We also need to be building nuclear power plants - which have a superior safety record BTW - just don't be fooled by the propaganda of the safety perspectives in the movies - 'a la the China Syndrome. (9 billion /21 million) and 16 billion/21 million) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault There isn't enough oil in ANWAR to make a bit of difference. That field in North Dakota is supposed to be way bigger and even bigger than they thought and it hasn't done a thing to the price of oil... BTW gas prices have been climbing steadily here, up to $4.09 now. Diesel hasn't risen at all, $4.89. I'd heard that the refineries were going to bias production more toward diesel, looks like thats actually happening. I'd like it to happen a bit more so I can lock in a lower heating fuel price! -Curt Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:16:28 -0400 From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Donald wrote executive orders preventing drilling in WAY too many places Hi Donald - A couple of questions - Is it possible for Bush to sign an EO to open Anwar and the coasts to drilling? Or were clintons EOs followed by congressonal legislation?? If we started actively drilling I bet the markets would react quickly and prices would drop long before the oil actually got to market. Also - this is where I think States Rights really got hurt - why can't Va open her coast to drilling - I'd even support Va residents get 1st shot at the oil with unneeded oil going to other areas - but that might not be workable. ;-) \\\ BUT! The citizens of Va *should* decide what happens in her coastal waters - not representatives from other states.. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
You just made my case. Anything less than 5 years of oil isn't squat. We'll burn it all in a couple years and then what have we got? Less than nothing... -Curt Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 11:33:02 -0400 From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original curt wrote There isn't enough oil in ANWAR to make a bit of difference Not sure why you would say that - unless you're believing the demorat publicity. according to http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2008/05/02/72167068 there is estimated 9 billion to 16 billion barrels of oil in Anwar. According to http://energy.senate.gov/legislation/energybill/charts/chart8.pdf the US uses approx 21 million barrels per day that equates to between 428 days and 761 days - or between 14 months and 25 months - but the real benefit will be to show the world's oil producers we can and *will* produce our own oil. Add the above 1-2 year supply - from JUST Anwar - the oil reserves in the US and off our coasts it is possible for us to be oil independent. We need to drill here, drill now and while we enjoy our resources we can be looking for alternatives. For years we've heard cheap oil keeps alternatives from being workable - well, we no longer have cheap oil - IMO we haven;t since the 60s when it was $.30/gal - and we are not seeing realistic alternatives. We also need to be building nuclear power plants - which have a superior safety record BTW - just don't be fooled by the propaganda of the safety perspectives in the movies - 'a la the China Syndrome. (9 billion /21 million) and 16 billion/21 million) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
Wrong - the price of oil is only now starting to rise to the pain point (it's not there yet, it's just to the bitching point), before we'll get serious about finding/building serious alternatives. Yes - we need to do some serious work on the nuclear waste problem, then get those nuke plants cranking! For years we've heard cheap oil keeps alternatives from being workable - well, we no longer have cheap oil - IMO we haven;t since the 60s when it was $.30/gal - and we are not seeing realistic alternatives. We also need to be building nuclear power plants - which have a superior safety record BTW - just don't be fooled by the propaganda of the safety perspectives in the movies - 'a la the China Syndrome. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
Nope - read my whole email - Anwar is just the tip of the iceburg and may contain more than estimated. Also, the oil off our coasts may be substantial along with coal shale, etc. Why would anyone be against extracting what's there? If you had a bank account with a few thousand in it would you ignore it just because you;ll need more at some point? None of the alternative fuels sources will help near term - drilling for oil can help - Anwar is just one place to drill. As far as the oil leases the oil companies have presently - they're not being drilled because geologist have found there is little likelyhood of oil being found there. Would you spend *your* money drilling somewhere that's unlikely to make any money? hope not. but the demorats are making a big deal of the oil companies not driling the leases they presently have - they evidently don;t get it - but I'll bet the American people do - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault You just made my case. Anything less than 5 years of oil isn't squat. We'll burn it all in a couple years and then what have we got? Less than nothing... -Curt Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 11:33:02 -0400 From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original curt wrote There isn't enough oil in ANWAR to make a bit of difference Not sure why you would say that - unless you're believing the demorat publicity. according to http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2008/05/02/72167068 there is estimated 9 billion to 16 billion barrels of oil in Anwar. According to http://energy.senate.gov/legislation/energybill/charts/chart8.pdf the US uses approx 21 million barrels per day that equates to between 428 days and 761 days - or between 14 months and 25 months - but the real benefit will be to show the world's oil producers we can and *will* produce our own oil. Add the above 1-2 year supply - from JUST Anwar - the oil reserves in the US and off our coasts it is possible for us to be oil independent. We need to drill here, drill now and while we enjoy our resources we can be looking for alternatives. For years we've heard cheap oil keeps alternatives from being workable - well, we no longer have cheap oil - IMO we haven;t since the 60s when it was $.30/gal - and we are not seeing realistic alternatives. We also need to be building nuclear power plants - which have a superior safety record BTW - just don't be fooled by the propaganda of the safety perspectives in the movies - 'a la the China Syndrome. (9 billion /21 million) and 16 billion/21 million) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
In the early 80s I worked on a Breeder Reactor which woud have used all the $*Trillions* of dollars presently being stored at nuclear facilities all over the country. It would effectlvely recycle it. But the carter admin decided to throw away the $2.5Billion worth labor equipment (we had bought all major equip) rather than develop a new technology that would help the nuke waste problem - nearly 30 years ago. To demonstrate the system would provide electricity we added a turbine/generator. Then, those brilliant senators said - well, gee, TVA is giving us all the power we need, then he says, we don't know what we will do with the nuke waste we have now - we shouldn;t be making more of it. If his brain power was TNT there wouldn't be enough there to blow his nose. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault Wrong - the price of oil is only now starting to rise to the pain point (it's not there yet, it's just to the bitching point), before we'll get serious about finding/building serious alternatives. Yes - we need to do some serious work on the nuclear waste problem, then get those nuke plants cranking! For years we've heard cheap oil keeps alternatives from being workable - well, we no longer have cheap oil - IMO we haven;t since the 60s when it was $.30/gal - and we are not seeing realistic alternatives. We also need to be building nuclear power plants - which have a superior safety record BTW - just don't be fooled by the propaganda of the safety perspectives in the movies - 'a la the China Syndrome. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
It seems like yours is just exactly the opposite arguemnt as the dems... Neither of them are worth much. If the price of oil goes down now then useage is likely to go up and investment in conservation (which is where the real money is) and alternatives will also go down. We need to not drill on our own soil to keep the price of oil HIGH which will spur other things and keep using somebody else's oil. If I had a bank account with a small amount in it and somebody else was paying I'd definately let them pay. We've got a small amount of oil but the Arabs would prefer we pump theirs. Thats cool, lets pump theirs. When its all gone we can get ours. -Curt Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:29:17 -0400 From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Nope - read my whole email - Anwar is just the tip of the iceburg and may contain more than estimated. Also, the oil off our coasts may be substantial along with coal shale, etc. Why would anyone be against extracting what's there? If you had a bank account with a few thousand in it would you ignore it just because you;ll need more at some point? None of the alternative fuels sources will help near term - drilling for oil can help - Anwar is just one place to drill. As far as the oil leases the oil companies have presently - they're not being drilled because geologist have found there is little likelyhood of oil being found there. Would you spend *your* money drilling somewhere that's unlikely to make any money? hope not. but the demorats are making a big deal of the oil companies not driling the leases they presently have - they evidently don;t get it - but I'll bet the American people do - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
it is kind of odd that we still occupy those countries after all these years On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Donald Snook wrote: How many times does the house need to have another vote to establish a withdrawal date for Iraq when each time it failed. I'm wondering when they will establish a withdrawal date for Germany, Japan, and Korea. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
I suppose but that doesn't negate the fact that nobody else really wants us doing it and its bleeding our economy (not to mention thousands of soldiers) dry. I don't think most people can see a world where the USA isn't a bully with a big stick. -Curt --- On Wed, 6/25/08, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 10:34 PM Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've been thinking about that a lot lately. It seems like the only reason to keep our bases in those places is so we can play World's policeman which is a role we're not particularly good at OTOH we're better at it than anyone else. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
I had an 'interesting' conversation with a conservative a couple of months ago. He was absolutely convinced that none of the current problems have anything to do with Bush, but were all actually the fault of Clinton. The Serbian/Croatia thing was worse than Iraq, Clinton is the one who let ben Laden go [before he had done the things he is wanted for], etc, etc. I wish Bush had had as little influence on the last 7.5 years as he thinks. It was like listening to 'Rush lite' [at least I think it would be - I have not been able to actually get through his show in about 20 years.] BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 11:06 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home That problem has been around for at least 40 years that I know of personally by reading the news, and I'd bet it goes back much longer than that. Why do people blame everything on Clinton? Peter On Jun 24, 2008, at 10:01 AM, John Robbins wrote: Craig McCluskey wrote: But the Republican presidents would not have errected barriers to information transfer between the CIA and the FBI, among other things. I wasn't around to know anything about this, but could that be explained by fighting amongst the CIA, FBI, etc? John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
Bill R. wrote: I had an 'interesting' conversation with a conservative a couple of months ago. He was absolutely convinced that none of the current problems have anything to do with Bush, but were all actually the fault of Clinton. Here is another conservative offering another perspective. The problem with Clinton is that he wants to take credit for all of the good things that happened and no responsibility for the bad. President Bush operates in about the same way, but he doesn't do it with the self-righteous intellectual elitism that Clinton does. BUT, I think most of the problems have little do with Clinton or Bush. Most of the problems are the fault of the Congress. Congress has had two modes recently. They have passed idiotic legislation that doesn't help the situation or they have done nothing and tried to blame the other side for doing nothing. Congress' failures have only been multiplied since Speaker Pelosi has taken over. How many times does the house need to have another vote to establish a withdrawal date for Iraq when each time it failed. The house once had three votes on the issue in one week. Each was soundly defeated and NONE of them if they had passed was going to make it past a presidential veto. It is all about posturing for the constituents rather getting anything done. I think President Clinton deserves some credit for some of what he was able to accomplish. I also think President Bush deserves some credit for things he has been able to do. BUT, Congress has the real power and they have squandered most of it. P.S. I do think part of the blame for the gas prices rests with President Clinton. He signed WAY too many executive orders preventing drilling in WAY too many places. In 1998, he said that ANWAR would be off-limits and he justified his decision by saying that it would take 8 years to get the oil out of the ground and into the stream of commerce. I don't know about you, but I sure do wish that 8 years ago, we had done that. Because it would still be paying off right now. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
Donald Snook wrote: How many times does the house need to have another vote to establish a withdrawal date for Iraq when each time it failed. I'm wondering when they will establish a withdrawal date for Germany, Japan, and Korea. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
Donald Snook wrote: In 1998, he said that ANWAR would be off-limits and he justified his decision by saying that it would take 8 years to get the oil out of the ground and into the stream of commerce. I don't know about you, but I sure do wish that 8 years ago, we had done that. Because it would still be paying off right now. Eventually we ARE going to have to curb our oil consumption... I would prefer to do it sooner rather than later. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
Don, I have a lot more respect for you and your perspective than someone like the guy I was talking to. Nice fellow, but way too easily swayed by 'straw man' arguments. I also suspect that much of our likes and dislikes on political issues, and our likes and dislikes on politicians stem from the perspective we are seeing them from. I'll never like or trust Bush; never forgive Clinton, and never feel Clinton was not hobbled politically for a stupid inexcusable action that should have even been a subject of political interest. Neither our country nor our pocketbooks were well served by that entire politically motivated spectacle. Much of these feelings come from preconceived perspectives. I have Republican friends who feel it was the right thing to do to go after Clinton; I have Democratic friends who feel it is necessary to put as much emphasis on the past follies of our time in Iraq - including multiple votes that won't mean anything - because congress has to stand up for something and not just let Bush get his way with no sign of opposition. I have friends who want us to drill for oil everywhere; others who ask why the oil companies are not drilling where they already have leases. By the way, do you really think oil from AK now is still selling for $30 - $40 a barrel? Why do you think new oil will be sold any cheaper than the market will bear? As I get older I find my self actually getting less and less interested in politics, and more turned off by politicians. It seems the only action is for political gain and not for the good of the country. Too much General Bullmoose out there. Looking for change from politicians feels a bit like asking the [power] hungry fox to guard the hen house. The Republicans being in power simply gave the same corrupting temptations to them [and they did the same things with them the Democrats did when they were in power] that had congress screwing the US by the Democrats. I'm voting for Obama, but I'll be registering Independent next time. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Donald Snook Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 3:44 PM To: 'mercedes@okiebenz.com' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault Bill R. wrote: I had an 'interesting' conversation with a conservative a couple of months ago. He was absolutely convinced that none of the current problems have anything to do with Bush, but were all actually the fault of Clinton. Here is another conservative offering another perspective. The problem with Clinton is that he wants to take credit for all of the good things that happened and no responsibility for the bad. President Bush operates in about the same way, but he doesn't do it with the self-righteous intellectual elitism that Clinton does. BUT, I think most of the problems have little do with Clinton or Bush. Most of the problems are the fault of the Congress. Congress has had two modes recently. They have passed idiotic legislation that doesn't help the situation or they have done nothing and tried to blame the other side for doing nothing. Congress' failures have only been multiplied since Speaker Pelosi has taken over. How many times does the house need to have another vote to establish a withdrawal date for Iraq when each time it failed. The house once had three votes on the issue in one week. Each was soundly defeated and NONE of them if they had passed was going to make it past a presidential veto. It is all about posturing for the constituents rather getting anything done. I think President Clinton deserves some credit for some of what he was able to accomplish. I also think President Bush deserves some credit for things he has been able to do. BUT, Congress has the real power and they have squandered most of it. P.S. I do think part of the blame for the gas prices rests with President Clinton. He signed WAY too many executive orders preventing drilling in WAY too many places. In 1998, he said that ANWAR would be off-limits and he justified his decision by saying that it would take 8 years to get the oil out of the ground and into the stream of commerce. I don't know about you, but I sure do wish that 8 years ago, we had done that. Because it would still be paying off right now. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
I've been thinking about that a lot lately. It seems like the only reason to keep our bases in those places is so we can play World's policeman which is a role we're not particularly good at and nobody in the world seems to really want us to have... -Curt Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:54:39 -0400 From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Donald Snook wrote: How many times does the house need to have another vote to establish a withdrawal date for Iraq when each time it failed. I'm wondering when they will establish a withdrawal date for Germany, Japan, and Korea. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
I must admit that the likelihood of an armed invasion of any of those countries is pretty unlikely at this point. In principle I am in favor of having our citizens know a bit more about the world, but encouraging exchange programs seems a lot cheaper and more productive way to do it. After thinking about my earlier comments I suppose I am not as jaded as I sounded. I do have some hope for change with Obama, and might well be the only person in my neighborhood with one of his signs in my yard. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 6:09 PM To: Diesel List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault I've been thinking about that a lot lately. It seems like the only reason to keep our bases in those places is so we can play World's policeman which is a role we're not particularly good at and nobody in the world seems to really want us to have... -Curt Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:54:39 -0400 From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Donald Snook wrote: How many times does the house need to have another vote to establish a withdrawal date for Iraq when each time it failed. I'm wondering when they will establish a withdrawal date for Germany, Japan, and Korea. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:04:07 -0500 Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The information barriers were NOT put in place by Clinton Au contraire, there were indeed information barriers put in place by Clinton. And don't get me started on what that woman he put in charge of the Deparement of Energy did to it. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home - all Clinton's fault
Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've been thinking about that a lot lately. It seems like the only reason to keep our bases in those places is so we can play World's policeman which is a role we're not particularly good at OTOH we're better at it than anyone else. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Craig McCluskey wrote: But the Republican presidents would not have errected barriers to information transfer between the CIA and the FBI, among other things. I wasn't around to know anything about this, but could that be explained by fighting amongst the CIA, FBI, etc? John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
John Robbins wrote: I wasn't around to know anything about this, but could that be explained by fighting amongst the CIA, FBI, etc? Sometimes it seems like getting a better appropriation is more important than doing their jobs, doesn't it? The whole point of the Waco slaughter was to have a big project to show Congress for that year's appropriations. The fact that there was no illegal weapons activity there really didn't matter, at least not as much as the fact that they spent two months sitting outside looking ineffective. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
That problem has been around for at least 40 years that I know of personally by reading the news, and I'd bet it goes back much longer than that. Why do people blame everything on Clinton? Peter On Jun 24, 2008, at 10:01 AM, John Robbins wrote: Craig McCluskey wrote: But the Republican presidents would not have errected barriers to information transfer between the CIA and the FBI, among other things. I wasn't around to know anything about this, but could that be explained by fighting amongst the CIA, FBI, etc? John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Peter Frederick wrote: Government is NOT evil, it's what makes the difference between civilization and plain chaos. Government is a necessary evil. The more it sticks its nose where it is not necessary for it to be involved, the more evil it becomes. The problem is coming to an agreement over just what is a necessary gov't function. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Government is a necessary evil. The more it sticks its nose where it is not necessary for it to be involved, the more evil it becomes. The problem is coming to an agreement over just what is a necessary gov't function. If more people would actually think about the fact that any government collects _all_ of the money required to do its business at gunpoint then this controversy would quiet down a lot. If any proposed function is _not_ worth the real threat of bodily injury or death to support then it should _not_ be a function of government. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Mitch wrote: Government is a necessary evil. The more it sticks its nose where it is not necessary for it to be involved, the more evil it becomes. The problem is coming to an agreement over just what is a necessary gov't function. I think it is time for some wisdom from someone who has offered many thoughts on government: 'Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.' 'The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a government program.'- 'The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'- I bet some of the more politically astute members of this list will be able to discern the author. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Donald Snook wrote: 'Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.' I don't know if it was original to him, but Ronald Reagan said that. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Mitch Haley wrote: Donald Snook wrote: 'Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.' I don't know if it was original to him, but Ronald Reagan said that. I forgot to add, Mr Reagan preferred outright theft of private property, aka forfeiture, to taxation. http://www.lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson9.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
I forgot to add, Mr Reagan preferred outright theft of private property, aka forfeiture, to taxation. http://www.lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson9.html; That is a dumb argument, Mitch. Because the congress passed drug money seizure laws and most other states followed you blame President Reagan? How about the 1993 Bombing of the World Trade Center? Clinton was president. He was cutting defense spending dramatically and cutting funding to CIA and counter terrorism plans, so that Osama bin Laden was not caught, captured or killed. So, here is a response to your statement that has as much credibility behind it: I forgot to add, Mr. Clinton preferred terrorism, aka killing Americans in the WTC on Sept 11, 2001, to actually funding the military and counter terrorists branches of the CIA. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Donald Snook wrote: I forgot to add, Mr. Clinton preferred terrorism, aka killing Americans in the WTC on Sept 11, 2001, to actually funding the military and counter terrorists branches of the CIA. The asset theft ring known as the DEA really got going in the Reagan era, but Clinton expanded it quite a bit. If you think any of the Repugnant party presidents of the last 30 years could have prevented those plane crashes, you're nuts enough to support the so-called Patriot Act. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Donald Snook wrote: That is a dumb argument, Mitch. Because the congress passed drug money seizure laws and most other states followed you blame President Reagan? How about the 1993 Bombing of the World Trade Center? Clinton was president. He was cutting defense spending dramatically and cutting funding to CIA and counter terrorism plans, so that Osama bin Laden was not caught, captured or killed. So, here is a response to your statement that has as much credibility behind it: I forgot to add, Mr. Clinton preferred terrorism, aka killing Americans in the WTC on Sept 11, 2001, to actually funding the military and counter terrorists branches of the CIA. I just happened to skim the last paragraph first, and I'm glad I read the first two before I fired off a reply!! John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Mitch wrote: If you think any of the Repugnant party presidents of the last 30 years could have prevented those plane crashes, you're nuts enough to support the so-called Patriot Act. I agree with you that it would have been damn near impossible to prevent the actual acts on September 11th once the plan was in action. But, bin Laden was getting more and more bold in his plans and Clinton didn't do enough to stop him. That is what happens when you cut hum intelligence assets dramatically. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Donald Snook wrote: I agree with you that it would have been damn near impossible to prevent the actual acts on September 11th once the plan was in action. But, bin Laden was getting more and more bold in his plans and Clinton didn't do enough to stop him. That is what happens when you cut hum intelligence assets dramatically. What I was (not so politely) getting at was GWB has spent half a trillion dollars or so, and over six years, with military and CIA, trying to get Bin Laden, with no better result than Clinton had. Worse yet, Reagan used the CIA to train and equip Bin Laden, so it's really hard to blame Clinton for the various attacks on the WTC. I used to watch those PSAs on TV six years ago: Want to help finance international terrorism? If you buy illegal drugs, you probably already do, and I'd think to myself: Want to help finance international terrorism? If you pay federal taxes, you already do. Same thing with the Taliban, as long as they were attacking the Soviets, their activities were fine with us. As far as ability to protect our own sovereign soil is concerned, I believe the USA military is currently in the worst shape it's been in for decades. Can't blame Clinton for that either. Mr You support our troops while I give them the shaft is more to blame for that. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
I think the official term is blowback. We are reaping quite a bit of the harvest we sowed during the cold war -- much of which was to benefit the makers of military equipment. I won't contiue, it's been a good day and I don't want to mess it up. Peter On Jun 23, 2008, at 6:00 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Donald Snook wrote: I agree with you that it would have been damn near impossible to prevent the actual acts on September 11th once the plan was in action. But, bin Laden was getting more and more bold in his plans and Clinton didn't do enough to stop him. That is what happens when you cut hum intelligence assets dramatically. What I was (not so politely) getting at was GWB has spent half a trillion dollars or so, and over six years, with military and CIA, trying to get Bin Laden, with no better result than Clinton had. Worse yet, Reagan used the CIA to train and equip Bin Laden, so it's really hard to blame Clinton for the various attacks on the WTC. I used to watch those PSAs on TV six years ago: Want to help finance international terrorism? If you buy illegal drugs, you probably already do, and I'd think to myself: Want to help finance international terrorism? If you pay federal taxes, you already do. Same thing with the Taliban, as long as they were attacking the Soviets, their activities were fine with us. As far as ability to protect our own sovereign soil is concerned, I believe the USA military is currently in the worst shape it's been in for decades. Can't blame Clinton for that either. Mr You support our troops while I give them the shaft is more to blame for that. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:38:45 -0400 Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Donald Snook wrote: I forgot to add, Mr. Clinton preferred terrorism, aka killing Americans in the WTC on Sept 11, 2001, to actually funding the military and counter terrorists branches of the CIA. The asset theft ring known as the DEA really got going in the Reagan era, but Clinton expanded it quite a bit. If you think any of the Repugnant party presidents of the last 30 years could have prevented those plane crashes, you're nuts enough to support the so-called Patriot Act. But the Republican presidents would not have errected barriers to information transfer between the CIA and the FBI, among other things. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 19:00:53 -0400 Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as ability to protect our own sovereign soil is concerned, I believe the USA military is currently in the worst shape it's been in for decades. Can't blame Clinton for that either. Mr You support our troops while I give them the shaft is more to blame for that. You mean that Reid fellow in Congress? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
The current Republican president ignored what information did get through, especially the part about airplanes flown into buildings. Read Dick Clark's book, and he's not the only source. There are no surprises in the gang of terrorists we raised in Afganistan, we've known who they were for decades now. The information barriers were NOT put in place by Clinton, they are the result of having various information systems that have different purposes. The FBI is part of the Attorney General's office, they are supposed to PROSECUTE, meaning they must have information that can be used in court. Cross contamination with national security information puts you in the position we are in with Guantanamo, amongst other things. We cannot convict the inmates of anything because none of the testimony can be used in court. I'm not fond of the idea of a super intelligence agency . At least with several independent ones you have more than one chance to get real data instead of going down the toilet with a mistaken single source. That's why there were independent ones to start with, the CIA wasn't very good at intelligence. Breaking the law, screwing up illegal assasinations, and destroying legitimate governments, but not intelligence. You cannot blame Clinton (or the Democrats) for an institutional problem that dates back to the early 1940's. Peter On Jun 23, 2008, at 9:49 PM, Craig McCluskey wrote: On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:38:45 -0400 Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Donald Snook wrote: I forgot to add, Mr. Clinton preferred terrorism, aka killing Americans in the WTC on Sept 11, 2001, to actually funding the military and counter terrorists branches of the CIA. The asset theft ring known as the DEA really got going in the Reagan era, but Clinton expanded it quite a bit. If you think any of the Repugnant party presidents of the last 30 years could have prevented those plane crashes, you're nuts enough to support the so-called Patriot Act. But the Republican presidents would not have errected barriers to information transfer between the CIA and the FBI, among other things. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Craig McCluskey wrote: You mean that Reid fellow in Congress? I don't recall hearing about the Clinton Department of Defense going after soldiers demanding they repay their enlistment bonuses because they became crippled on duty and couldn't serve their full terms. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
That is the reason we HAVE a government. I'm sure you get a strong difference of opinion about that with some people on the list. This is where I beg to differ. The purpose of the government is to get things done for the common good. Your gov't built the interstate system, remember? It's not supposed to be run like a business. It's not there to support business as business can't elect representatives. It's not meant to create jobs but to provide an environment whereby jobs are created by the market. In the US people have a very negative view of gov'tmainly people who don't bloody vote. The media makes them look bad. If the media spent more time on corporate welfare, rich farmers/stupid subsidies and institutional corruption, maybe more people would be informed. Instead, keeping them ignorant and entertained allows an easy ride for the rhetoric/bullshit spinners to get elected. You guys have a real mess on your hands and I don't see it changing any time soon. A real sea change is required but you've painted yourselves into a corner. Something real and tangible needs to be done...maybe I'm just too idealistic but I agree with what Peter had written. This is why I think the current crunch will hit North America harder than anywhere else in the developed world. Too much selfishness.too much individualism and not enough individuality. Zedic Cynical Idealist at large ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home...
i don't fly anymore. even if you buy a first class ticket, airlines still treat you like garbage and i'm more than a little tired of playing the homeland security fraud. what has been most remarkable to me is that the masses have been so pacified and stupified that they just happily go along with any vile nonsense the government sends our way. On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Airline Industry, I am sick of being treated either like a criminal, or like a fool, or both. I do not feel safer, I do not feel better served, I do not feel like giving you any money. Screw you. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home...or take a cruise
If you are going to the right spot, take a cruise. The latest offer I got was $249 inside and $319 ocean view for a 5 day to the Bahamas leaving from my city. Some silver on the edges of the cloud of the economy. Don't suppose that would help with business travel, though. I might well do it if my Darling Wife can get the time off. BillR Jacksonville FL 1981 300SD 302k miles, and rising slowly with the price of diesel these days -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:17 PM To: Diesel List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home... Can anyone explain the rationale behind this one? Why would United want me to fly LESS? I don't understand this one at all... Is it just to make me upgrade to a flight class that doesn't have a restriction? Somehow I think that United is going to be getting a lot less of my company's money... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home...or take a cruise
In fact we're planning on a cruise between Christmas and New Years. Our timeshare allows us to trade our week in for a cruise which gets us really attractive pricing Right now the plan is to fly out of Ft. Lauderdale but if that changes I'll let you know... -Curt --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Bill R [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Bill R [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home...or take a cruise To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 8:04 AM If you are going to the right spot, take a cruise. The latest offer I got was $249 inside and $319 ocean view for a 5 day to the Bahamas leaving from my city. Some silver on the edges of the cloud of the economy. Don't suppose that would help with business travel, though. I might well do it if my Darling Wife can get the time off. BillR Jacksonville FL 1981 300SD 302k miles, and rising slowly with the price of diesel these days -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:17 PM To: Diesel List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home... Can anyone explain the rationale behind this one? Why would United want me to fly LESS? I don't understand this one at all... Is it just to make me upgrade to a flight class that doesn't have a restriction? Somehow I think that United is going to be getting a lot less of my company's money... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Peter - lots of good ideas, though the politics won't work yet. May your tribe increase. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:50 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home Well, there is a solution (actually, the same one I've been suggesting for 30 years or more) Stop building roads, of any kind, at once. Spend the highway trust fund money on de-suburbanization -- for an example, take a look at any community near a large city built before 1948 -- a main street with a commercial district and the mass transit line (bus, trolley, etc) down the middle, with housing varying from inexpensive mulitple unit near the main street to high dollar large lot single family at the outside. Require banks to quit financing new construction at better rates than existing homes (if you haven't noticed, the vast majority of subprime loans are for city housing) Stop zoning for parking. Anywhere, any place, any time. Nationalize the railbeds (not the railroads, just the rails themselves -- note that the Railroads currently pay property tax on the roadbed) and build a rational one (sorta like the interstate highway system instead of the hodge-podge we have). Set up a national passenger service that actually moves passengers for transit instead of an excursion service. This requires high speed, concrete set (not wooden crossties in gravel) rail bed. Another use for the highway trust fund money. Start taxing fuel use, increasing it rather steeply until it's $5-6 a gallon. Require zoning law changes so that new construction MUST be contiguous with current mass transit. No more isolated suburbs, no more way out in the country businesses -- we ain't gonna be driving to work any more, we HAVE to be able to use mass transit. A very large and annually repeating severance tax for converting farm land to any other use. I'm hoping that the severity of the fuel crisis will finally persuade people that one should NOT take advice about zoning and community development from people who make money off urban sprawl. Probably not a snowball's chance in the bad place any of this will happen, though, we all worship the free market Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Kaleb, what I think he is suggesting is that the stop causing and encouraging our problems. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 10:44 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home So the government should step in and solve all our problems? Peter Frederick wrote: Well, there is a solution (actually, the same one I've been suggesting for 30 years or more) Stop building roads, of any kind, at once. Spend the highway trust fund money on de-suburbanization -- for an example, take a look at any community near a large city built before 1948 -- a main street with a commercial district and the mass transit line (bus, trolley, etc) down the middle, with housing varying from inexpensive mulitple unit near the main street to high dollar large lot single family at the outside. Require banks to quit financing new construction at better rates than existing homes (if you haven't noticed, the vast majority of subprime loans are for city housing) Stop zoning for parking. Anywhere, any place, any time. Nationalize the railbeds (not the railroads, just the rails themselves -- note that the Railroads currently pay property tax on the roadbed) and build a rational one (sorta like the interstate highway system instead of the hodge-podge we have). Set up a national passenger service that actually moves passengers for transit instead of an excursion service. This requires high speed, concrete set (not wooden crossties in gravel) rail bed. Another use for the highway trust fund money. Start taxing fuel use, increasing it rather steeply until it's $5-6 a gallon. Require zoning law changes so that new construction MUST be contiguous with current mass transit. No more isolated suburbs, no more way out in the country businesses -- we ain't gonna be driving to work any more, we HAVE to be able to use mass transit. A very large and annually repeating severance tax for converting farm land to any other use. I'm hoping that the severity of the fuel crisis will finally persuade people that one should NOT take advice about zoning and community development from people who make money off urban sprawl. Probably not a snowball's chance in the bad place any of this will happen, though, we all worship the free market Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 86 560SL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250, 66 220SEb http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
After all, it's currently ILLEGAL to build a mixed use suburb in about 48 of the 50 states -- this is to increase car and fuel (and tire) sales. A few minor changes in the law would do a world of good, and we don't really have more than a few years to get this in motion. Peter On Jun 22, 2008, at 12:52 PM, Bill R wrote: Peter - lots of good ideas, though the politics won't work yet. May your tribe increase. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:mercedes- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:50 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home Well, there is a solution (actually, the same one I've been suggesting for 30 years or more) Stop building roads, of any kind, at once. Spend the highway trust fund money on de-suburbanization -- for an example, take a look at any community near a large city built before 1948 -- a main street with a commercial district and the mass transit line (bus, trolley, etc) down the middle, with housing varying from inexpensive mulitple unit near the main street to high dollar large lot single family at the outside. Require banks to quit financing new construction at better rates than existing homes (if you haven't noticed, the vast majority of subprime loans are for city housing) Stop zoning for parking. Anywhere, any place, any time. Nationalize the railbeds (not the railroads, just the rails themselves -- note that the Railroads currently pay property tax on the roadbed) and build a rational one (sorta like the interstate highway system instead of the hodge-podge we have). Set up a national passenger service that actually moves passengers for transit instead of an excursion service. This requires high speed, concrete set (not wooden crossties in gravel) rail bed. Another use for the highway trust fund money. Start taxing fuel use, increasing it rather steeply until it's $5-6 a gallon. Require zoning law changes so that new construction MUST be contiguous with current mass transit. No more isolated suburbs, no more way out in the country businesses -- we ain't gonna be driving to work any more, we HAVE to be able to use mass transit. A very large and annually repeating severance tax for converting farm land to any other use. I'm hoping that the severity of the fuel crisis will finally persuade people that one should NOT take advice about zoning and community development from people who make money off urban sprawl. Probably not a snowball's chance in the bad place any of this will happen, though, we all worship the free market Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
What you are describing sounds like the suburbs of Chicago 50 years ago, where communities grew around the CNW railroad stations that ran out from the city. The railroad ran the passenger service, at a mighty slim profit, yet still a profit. Then the Gov't came in and took over the passenger service and it has run as a loss ever since. Regional transit is excellent when it is though out and managed correctly. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:50 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home Well, there is a solution (actually, the same one I've been suggesting for 30 years or more) Stop building roads, of any kind, at once. Spend the highway trust fund money on de-suburbanization -- for an example, take a look at any community near a large city built before 1948 -- a main street with a commercial district and the mass transit line (bus, trolley, etc) down the middle, with housing varying from inexpensive mulitple unit near the main street to high dollar large lot single family at the outside. Require banks to quit financing new construction at better rates than existing homes (if you haven't noticed, the vast majority of subprime loans are for city housing) Stop zoning for parking. Anywhere, any place, any time. Nationalize the railbeds (not the railroads, just the rails themselves -- note that the Railroads currently pay property tax on the roadbed) and build a rational one (sorta like the interstate highway system instead of the hodge-podge we have). Set up a national passenger service that actually moves passengers for transit instead of an excursion service. This requires high speed, concrete set (not wooden crossties in gravel) rail bed. Another use for the highway trust fund money. Start taxing fuel use, increasing it rather steeply until it's $5-6 a gallon. Require zoning law changes so that new construction MUST be contiguous with current mass transit. No more isolated suburbs, no more way out in the country businesses -- we ain't gonna be driving to work any more, we HAVE to be able to use mass transit. A very large and annually repeating severance tax for converting farm land to any other use. I'm hoping that the severity of the fuel crisis will finally persuade people that one should NOT take advice about zoning and community development from people who make money off urban sprawl. Probably not a snowball's chance in the bad place any of this will happen, though, we all worship the free market Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Or, in fact, the suburbs of any major city in the US. LA in particular had a superb transit system until GM bought it in the early 50's. Gone in a few years, replaced with endless concrete. Transit systems won't make money when people can also drive, as it both lowers ridership and causes route insanity. No mass transit system can replace independent automobiles, for them to function well, all the people need to be going to the same places at the same time, as they did in the late 40's-- from home to downtown, where they worked, and back home in the evening. Any point to any point, mass transit can't function. Unfortunately, for the last 60 years or so we've been spreading everything out with no rhyme or reason, and will have to un-do all the construction and highway building we've done in order to have an economy in the new age of limited oil. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Another reason to stay home...
NEW YORK -- United Airlines said Friday it will start requiring minimum stays for nearly all domestic coach seats beginning in October. It also is raising its cheapest fares by as much as $90 one-way. The second-largest U.S. carrier said the moves are among a number of changes, including flight and job cutbacks, it is making to combat record high fuel prices. The Chicago-based airline has been among the industry's most aggressive in pushing fares and fees higher in recent months, and those efforts have often been matched by other carriers. The industry is scrambling to raise revenue in a fight to forestall what is projected to be a record multibillion loss. Starting Oct. 6, most of United's economy-class fares will require a one- to three-night or weekend-night minimum stay, spokeswoman Robin Urbanski said. The policy does not apply to fliers in other classes. The new rules are bound to be unpopular with business travelers who prefer to catch a flight out early in the morning so they can be back home in time for dinner. They'll push back big time, said Mike Boyd, a Colorado-based aviation consultant. It's one thing to simply raise fares. It's quite another to do it by imposing restrictions that appear to make it harder to conveniently fly. Major carriers scrapped most minimum-stay rules at the start of the decade. ** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut000507) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home...
Can anyone explain the rationale behind this one? Why would United want me to fly LESS? I don't understand this one at all... Is it just to make me upgrade to a flight class that doesn't have a restriction? Somehow I think that United is going to be getting a lot less of my company's money... -Curt Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:48:38 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home... To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII NEW YORK -- United Airlines said Friday it will start requiring minimum stays for nearly all domestic coach seats beginning in October. It also is raising its cheapest fares by as much as $90 one-way. The second-largest U.S. carrier said the moves are among a number of changes, including flight and job cutbacks, it is making to combat record high fuel prices. The Chicago-based airline has been among the industry's most aggressive in pushing fares and fees higher in recent months, and those efforts have often been matched by other carriers. The industry is scrambling to raise revenue in a fight to forestall what is projected to be a record multibillion loss. Starting Oct. 6, most of United's economy-class fares will require a one- to three-night or weekend-night minimum stay, spokeswoman Robin Urbanski said. The policy does not apply to fliers in other classes. The new rules are bound to be unpopular with business travelers who prefer to catch a flight out early in the morning so they can be back home in time for dinner. They'll push back big time, said Mike Boyd, a Colorado-based aviation consultant. It's one thing to simply raise fares. It's quite another to do it by imposing restrictions that appear to make it harder to conveniently fly. Major carriers scrapped most minimum-stay rules at the start of the decade. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home...
The airlines, who have NEVER made money, even with the massive subsidies they get, are bleeding so badly they have to restrict flights to reduce the amount of fuel they use. The idea is to stabilize return trips and reduce the number of one- way trips to maximize the number of passengers on each flight. One less passenger makes a difference as the plane uses about the same fuel for the trip full or 3/4 full. Not a good sign Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Another reason to stay home
A nother sign of the SERIOUS trouble we're ALL in, and nobody seems to care. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home...
An airline needs to go out of business... Theres too much drive to push prices down and too many idiots pumping money in... Southwest is the only airline not run by morons... -Curt --- On Sat, 6/21/08, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home... To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 8:22 PM The airlines, who have NEVER made money, even with the massive subsidies they get, are bleeding so badly they have to restrict flights to reduce the amount of fuel they use. The idea is to stabilize return trips and reduce the number of one- way trips to maximize the number of passengers on each flight. One less passenger makes a difference as the plane uses about the same fuel for the trip full or 3/4 full. Not a good sign Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
Well, there is a solution (actually, the same one I've been suggesting for 30 years or more) Stop building roads, of any kind, at once. Spend the highway trust fund money on de-suburbanization -- for an example, take a look at any community near a large city built before 1948 -- a main street with a commercial district and the mass transit line (bus, trolley, etc) down the middle, with housing varying from inexpensive mulitple unit near the main street to high dollar large lot single family at the outside. Require banks to quit financing new construction at better rates than existing homes (if you haven't noticed, the vast majority of subprime loans are for city housing) Stop zoning for parking. Anywhere, any place, any time. Nationalize the railbeds (not the railroads, just the rails themselves -- note that the Railroads currently pay property tax on the roadbed) and build a rational one (sorta like the interstate highway system instead of the hodge-podge we have). Set up a national passenger service that actually moves passengers for transit instead of an excursion service. This requires high speed, concrete set (not wooden crossties in gravel) rail bed. Another use for the highway trust fund money. Start taxing fuel use, increasing it rather steeply until it's $5-6 a gallon. Require zoning law changes so that new construction MUST be contiguous with current mass transit. No more isolated suburbs, no more way out in the country businesses -- we ain't gonna be driving to work any more, we HAVE to be able to use mass transit. A very large and annually repeating severance tax for converting farm land to any other use. I'm hoping that the severity of the fuel crisis will finally persuade people that one should NOT take advice about zoning and community development from people who make money off urban sprawl. Probably not a snowball's chance in the bad place any of this will happen, though, we all worship the free market Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home...
Wonder if they'll get around to stand-up seating? http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/25/business/25seats.html Gerry - From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] An airline needs to go out of business... Theres too much drive to push prices down and too many idiots pumping money in... Southwest is the only airline not run by morons... -Curt --- On Sat, 6/21/08, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The airlines, who have NEVER made money, even with the massive subsidies they get, are bleeding so badly they have to restrict flights to reduce the amount of fuel they use. The idea is to stabilize return trips and reduce the number of one- way trips to maximize the number of passengers on each flight. One less passenger makes a difference as the plane uses about the same fuel for the trip full or 3/4 full. Not a good sign Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home...
They're going the way, they should offer beds not seats... Rack about 4 high. I'd put up with a navy style rack to lie in during a 5 hour flight... -Curt --- On Sat, 6/21/08, Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home... To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 8:52 PM Wonder if they'll get around to stand-up seating? http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/25/business/25seats.html Gerry - From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] An airline needs to go out of business... Theres too much drive to push prices down and too many idiots pumping money in... Southwest is the only airline not run by morons... -Curt --- On Sat, 6/21/08, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The airlines, who have NEVER made money, even with the massive subsidies they get, are bleeding so badly they have to restrict flights to reduce the amount of fuel they use. The idea is to stabilize return trips and reduce the number of one- way trips to maximize the number of passengers on each flight. One less passenger makes a difference as the plane uses about the same fuel for the trip full or 3/4 full. Not a good sign Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home...
On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:52:26 -0400 Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wonder if they'll get around to stand-up seating? http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/25/business/25seats.html Correction: May 4, 2006 A front-page article on April 25 about seating options that airlines are considering to accommodate more passengers in economy class referred incorrectly to the concept of carrying passengers standing up with harnesses holding them in position. During preparation of the article, The Times's questions to one aircraft manufacturer, Airbus, were imprecise and did not make it clear that the reporter was interested in standing-room seats. As a result, the article said the company would not specifically comment on the upright-seating proposal. The company now says that while it researched that idea in 2003, it has since abandoned it. A correction of the article appeared on this page on Tuesday. It should have acknowledged that if The Times had correctly understood the history of the proposal, the article would have qualified it, and would not have appeared on Page A1. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
I think many people are just too stupid to care. They are worried more about things like getting more wind power, or solar power, or buying hybrids than addressing the real problem. Wilton Strickland wrote: A nother sign of the SERIOUS trouble we're ALL in, and nobody seems to care. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 86 560SL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250, 66 220SEb http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
So the government should step in and solve all our problems? Peter Frederick wrote: Well, there is a solution (actually, the same one I've been suggesting for 30 years or more) Stop building roads, of any kind, at once. Spend the highway trust fund money on de-suburbanization -- for an example, take a look at any community near a large city built before 1948 -- a main street with a commercial district and the mass transit line (bus, trolley, etc) down the middle, with housing varying from inexpensive mulitple unit near the main street to high dollar large lot single family at the outside. Require banks to quit financing new construction at better rates than existing homes (if you haven't noticed, the vast majority of subprime loans are for city housing) Stop zoning for parking. Anywhere, any place, any time. Nationalize the railbeds (not the railroads, just the rails themselves -- note that the Railroads currently pay property tax on the roadbed) and build a rational one (sorta like the interstate highway system instead of the hodge-podge we have). Set up a national passenger service that actually moves passengers for transit instead of an excursion service. This requires high speed, concrete set (not wooden crossties in gravel) rail bed. Another use for the highway trust fund money. Start taxing fuel use, increasing it rather steeply until it's $5-6 a gallon. Require zoning law changes so that new construction MUST be contiguous with current mass transit. No more isolated suburbs, no more way out in the country businesses -- we ain't gonna be driving to work any more, we HAVE to be able to use mass transit. A very large and annually repeating severance tax for converting farm land to any other use. I'm hoping that the severity of the fuel crisis will finally persuade people that one should NOT take advice about zoning and community development from people who make money off urban sprawl. Probably not a snowball's chance in the bad place any of this will happen, though, we all worship the free market Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 86 560SL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250, 66 220SEb http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home...
On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:52:26 -0400 Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wonder if they'll get around to stand-up seating? http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/25/business/25seats.html Correction: May 4, 2006 A front-page article on April 25 about seating options that airlines are considering to accommodate more passengers in economy class referred incorrectly to the concept of carrying passengers standing up with harnesses holding them in position. During preparation of the article, The Times's questions to one aircraft manufacturer, Airbus, were imprecise and did not make it clear that the reporter was interested in standing-room seats. As a result, the article said the company would not specifically comment on the upright-seating proposal. The company now says that while it researched that idea in 2003, it has since abandoned it. A correction of the article appeared on this page on Tuesday. It should have acknowledged that if The Times had correctly understood the history of the proposal, the article would have qualified it, and would not have appeared on Page A1. Craig --- Originally read about it in one of the flying magazines IIRC. Had pictures showing oriental people in the stand up arrangement. Seem to remember that the Chinese or Japanese were considering it. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
That is the reason we HAVE a government. We elect them, we should hold their feet to the fire and get some things fixed for US, not just the rich people who fund their election campaigns. Government is NOT evil, it's what makes the difference between civilization and plain chaos. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:56:30 -0500 Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:44:11 -0500 Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the government should step in and solve all our problems? That is the reason we HAVE a government. I'm sure you get a strong difference of opinion about that with some people on the list. Government is NOT evil, it's what makes the difference between civilization and plain chaos. The function of government is to restrain evil (provide for the common defense and all that ...), not to take care of us. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home
are you going to tell us also that the police are a think blue line separating peace from anarchy? there are not many problems with our society that do not have government as the root cause. On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is the reason we HAVE a government. We elect them, we should hold their feet to the fire and get some things fixed for US, not just the rich people who fund their election campaigns. Government is NOT evil, it's what makes the difference between civilization and plain chaos. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Another reason to stay home...
Dear Airline Industry, I am sick of being treated either like a criminal, or like a fool, or both. I do not feel safer, I do not feel better served, I do not feel like giving you any money. Screw you. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
