Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Dieselhead]

I suggested that several days ago.


On Jun 17, 2013, at 11:33 AM, "Michael Canfield"  wrote:


 Curt,
  Put a pressure tester from FLAPS loan a tool on it.  Do not pump it up.
 Turn over engine.  If guage goes up you have cylinder pressure in cooling
 system.  That is where the air comes from.



That is a great idea.

Rick
Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Jim Cathey]

I had to put the head on the Hercules (genset engine) three times
before it stopped leaking.  Apparently it's not as easy as it looks.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Randy Bennell]

Get condom and stretch over the rad filler.
If it inflates, when you crank it, there is air.
Might want to close off the overflow too.

Randy

On 17/06/2013 4:31 PM, Rick Knoble wrote:

On Jun 17, 2013, at 11:33 AM, "Michael Canfield"  wrote:


Curt,
  Put a pressure tester from FLAPS loan a tool on it.  Do not pump it up.
Turn over engine.  If guage goes up you have cylinder pressure in cooling
system.  That is where the air comes from.


That is a great idea.

Rick
Sent from my iPhone





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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Rick Knoble]

On Jun 17, 2013, at 11:33 AM, "Michael Canfield"  wrote:

> Curt,
>  Put a pressure tester from FLAPS loan a tool on it.  Do not pump it up.
> Turn over engine.  If guage goes up you have cylinder pressure in cooling
> system.  That is where the air comes from.


That is a great idea. 

Rick
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Scott Ritchey]

Have you tried one of those radiator pressure testers that screws on in
place of the radiator cap?  You can usually borrow them for free from FLAPS.
When I had several old cars I found that tool so useful that I bought one.  

It's hard to tell what's happening with the engine hot and running.  But
with a still engine, you can pump it up and often see or hear leaks that are
masked with the engine running.

Scott

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
dsereta...@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 6:57 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

Since your headgasket was not "obviously" blown when we took it out, I
wonder if your problem doesn't lie elsewhere? But where?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 16, 2013, at 5:12 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:




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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Mountain Man]

Randy wrote:
> Anything is possible.
> Bypass the heater core by connecting the heater hoses together?
> Put some clear plastic hose on temporarily so you can see if there is flow?
>

I like that suggestion.
I imagine it to be some circulation problem in the engine system, not
in the ancillary systems of cabin heat, etc.
I bet if all things are isolated from the engine, the cauldron will
probably remain.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Randy Bennell]

Anything is possible.
Bypass the heater core by connecting the heater hoses together?
Put some clear plastic hose on temporarily so you can see if there is flow?

Randy

On 17/06/2013 11:29 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

I would tend to agree. I did replace a heater hose so it would stand to reason 
that the heater system is empty but why can't I get the air out? I left it up 
on ramps for half a day, every time I start it the coolant comes splashing out. 
At first I just thought it was burping but it can't continue to be burping for 
the amount of time I've had it running, where would the air come from?

If you can come up with a theory that involves a failed water pump somehow 
forcing air into the system which would burp out the coolant I'll continue 
troubleshooting...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:03:51 -0400
From: Mitch Haley 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end
Message-ID: <51bf2557.8090...@voyager.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Curt Raymond wrote:


#6. There is no cabin heat when running.

Now that would seem to point to a circulatory problem.

Mitch.





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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Randy Bennell]

Not all of us.

I suggested a crack somewhere,  on Friday afternoon.

Should be able to pressurize the system and look for a leak.
If combustion pressures are causing fluid to blow out of the system, 
then one would think it must be in the upper reaches of the cylinder 
wall or the head? More likely the head?
Heat causes the crack to open more maybe which is why it blows out 
coolant when it is hot?


Can one pressurize the system and look for coolant to appear in one or 
more of the cylinders?



Randy who is rambling no doubt

On 17/06/2013 9:46 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

Okay guys this madness has to end, none of you are apparently actually reading 
anything I write, you've all gotten hung up on the radiator cap.

Lets review the facts:

#1. '78 240D, no expansion tank, no aux pump.

#2. As soon as the car is started coolant starts bubbling out of the hood due 
to bubbles of gas pushing in there. When the car is shut off there is always 
one more big bubble of gas which will push around a cup of coolant off.

#3. The car overheats sitting running in the driveway. While I appreciate 
Luther's story it doesn't relate, the car should not overheat sitting in the 
driveway with the radiator cap off, if it did that would mean there couldn't 
possibly be enough cooling capacity to go on the highway ever.

#4. I drove 5,000 miles (most of it on the highway) with the radiator cap loose 
and the car didn't overheat.

#5. The car will push coolant past the radiator cap and still overheat.

#6. There is no cabin heat when running.

I would submit at this point that you can knock it off about the radiator cap, 
the radiator cap will not save this engine...

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Mitch Haley]

Mountain Man wrote:

Is this the 616 with 40mm rad hose that you replaced last week instead
of paying the stealer for OE hose?  Buy the china hose to see if it
works, then buy the OE hose to make it work properly?
Cauldron sounds at startup and no cabin heat - that can't be.  I doubt
head compromise or water passage blockage - except at some gasket
point, i.e. perhaps head gasket has water passage that is blocked and
is passing combustion gas to the cooling system?  Can you get the
off-gas tested for combustion gas?  Combustion gas would certainly
heat the coolant.


It's the car that recently had a weekend head gasket party in its honor.
Partygoers were disappointed at not being able to find the break in the old head 
gasket IIRC.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Mountain Man]

Is this the 616 with 40mm rad hose that you replaced last week instead
of paying the stealer for OE hose?  Buy the china hose to see if it
works, then buy the OE hose to make it work properly?
Cauldron sounds at startup and no cabin heat - that can't be.  I doubt
head compromise or water passage blockage - except at some gasket
point, i.e. perhaps head gasket has water passage that is blocked and
is passing combustion gas to the cooling system?  Can you get the
off-gas tested for combustion gas?  Combustion gas would certainly
heat the coolant.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Michael Canfield]

Curt,
  Put a pressure tester from FLAPS loan a tool on it.  Do not pump it up.
Turn over engine.  If guage goes up you have cylinder pressure in cooling
system.  That is where the air comes from.

Mike
On Jun 17, 2013 12:29 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:

> I would tend to agree. I did replace a heater hose so it would stand to
> reason that the heater system is empty but why can't I get the air out? I
> left it up on ramps for half a day, every time I start it the coolant comes
> splashing out. At first I just thought it was burping but it can't continue
> to be burping for the amount of time I've had it running, where would the
> air come from?
>
> If you can come up with a theory that involves a failed water pump somehow
> forcing air into the system which would burp out the coolant I'll continue
> troubleshooting...
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:03:51 -0400
> From: Mitch Haley 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end
> Message-ID: <51bf2557.8090...@voyager.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Curt Raymond wrote:
>
> > #6. There is no cabin heat when running.
>
> Now that would seem to point to a circulatory problem.
>
> Mitch.
>
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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Curt Raymond]

I would tend to agree. I did replace a heater hose so it would stand to reason 
that the heater system is empty but why can't I get the air out? I left it up 
on ramps for half a day, every time I start it the coolant comes splashing out. 
At first I just thought it was burping but it can't continue to be burping for 
the amount of time I've had it running, where would the air come from?

If you can come up with a theory that involves a failed water pump somehow 
forcing air into the system which would burp out the coolant I'll continue 
troubleshooting...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:03:51 -0400
From: Mitch Haley 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end
Message-ID: <51bf2557.8090...@voyager.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Curt Raymond wrote:

> #6. There is no cabin heat when running.

Now that would seem to point to a circulatory problem.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Dwight Giles]

Curt,
Woud it be worth a leakdown test before you declare it DOA?
Dwight


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Rich Thomas wrote:
>
>> No, this is where you pitch a major fit, in particular in earshot of
>> those browsing the showroom.
>>
>
> What? I paid you bastards $20k for a four cylinder economy car, and you
> want me to buy a new radiator cap to replace the one that was stolen in
> your shop?
>
> Mitch.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[M. Mitchell Marmel]

In some circles, it's called an embolism.  :)


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

>
> Air in a liquid cooling circuit would be a circulatory problem, right?
>
> Mitch.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Mitch Haley]

Craig wrote:


#2. As soon as the car is started coolant starts bubbling out of the
 hood due to bubbles of gas pushing in there. When the car is shut off
 there is always one more big bubble of gas which will push around a
 cup of coolant off,


seems to say that it doesn't require any time to get up to temperature
before the coolant starts bubbling out. This would indicate a crack
somewhere, independent of whether the cooling system is air-free and the
heater cores are filled with water.


Air in a liquid cooling circuit would be a circulatory problem, right?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Mitch Haley]

Rich Thomas wrote:
No, this is where you pitch a major fit, in particular in earshot of 
those browsing the showroom.


What? I paid you bastards $20k for a four cylinder economy car, and you want me 
to buy a new radiator cap to replace the one that was stolen in your shop?


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Craig]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 09:19:53 -0600 Craig  wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:03:51 -0400 Mitch Haley  wrote:
> 
> > Curt Raymond wrote:
> > 
> > > #6. There is no cabin heat when running.
> > 
> > Now that would seem to point to a circulatory problem.
> 
> That's my thought, too.


Although on further consideration,

> #2. As soon as the car is started coolant starts bubbling out of the
>  hood due to bubbles of gas pushing in there. When the car is shut off
>  there is always one more big bubble of gas which will push around a
>  cup of coolant off,

seems to say that it doesn't require any time to get up to temperature
before the coolant starts bubbling out. This would indicate a crack
somewhere, independent of whether the cooling system is air-free and the
heater cores are filled with water.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Craig]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:03:51 -0400 Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Curt Raymond wrote:
> 
> > #6. There is no cabin heat when running.
> 
> Now that would seem to point to a circulatory problem.

That's my thought, too.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Michael Canfield]

Excuse me but I have been arguing that the cap is not the issue and that
you have an issue with cylinder pressure escaping through a crack into the
cooling system.

Everyone should read ALL of the posts before making a guess.

Mike
On Jun 17, 2013 10:46 AM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:

> Okay guys this madness has to end, none of you are apparently actually
> reading anything I write, you've all gotten hung up on the radiator cap.
>
> Lets review the facts:
>
> #1. '78 240D, no expansion tank, no aux pump.
>
> #2. As soon as the car is started coolant starts bubbling out of the hood
> due to bubbles of gas pushing in there. When the car is shut off there is
> always one more big bubble of gas which will push around a cup of coolant
> off.
>
> #3. The car overheats sitting running in the driveway. While I appreciate
> Luther's story it doesn't relate, the car should not overheat sitting in
> the driveway with the radiator cap off, if it did that would mean there
> couldn't possibly be enough cooling capacity to go on the highway ever.
>
> #4. I drove 5,000 miles (most of it on the highway) with the radiator cap
> loose and the car didn't overheat.
>
> #5. The car will push coolant past the radiator cap and still overheat.
>
> #6. There is no cabin heat when running.
>
> I would submit at this point that you can knock it off about the radiator
> cap, the radiator cap will not save this engine...
>
> -Curt
>
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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Mitch Haley]

Curt Raymond wrote:


#6. There is no cabin heat when running.


Now that would seem to point to a circulatory problem.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Rich Thomas]

No, this is where you pitch a major fit, in particular in earshot of 
those browsing the showroom.


--R


On 6/17/13 10:58 AM, WILTON wrote:
Some sorry etc., had switched an OLD rusty one with my nearly new 
one!!!  Of course, I had to buy a new one - crapped-upon again. 



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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[WILTON]

Talk of radiator caps reminds me:  Nearly 30 years ago, I had taken my 
still-nearly-new '80 240D (purchased new in Nov '79) into local stealer's 
for some minor repair or PM one morning; about mid-afternoon I stopped by to 
check on it and noticed that it was in shop, with hood up.  I walked back 
there to speak to tech about it, etc.  As I approached the car, I noticed 
that the radiator cap was OLD and rusty - not the nearly new, shiny one that 
was on it when I left the car that morning.  I asked tech what had happened 
to my radiator cap.  Tech seemed as surprised as I was - supposedly had not 
noticed.  Some sorry etc., had switched an OLD rusty one with my nearly new 
one!!!  Of course, I had to buy a new one - crapped-upon again.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end


>The thing everybody seems to not want to address is the coolant boiling 
>out of the radiator neck...


I put both thermostats in a pan of water, they both begin opening around 
165F (the old one maybe slightly sooner) and are fully open at 180F. If 
they're busted its in some manner that I can't see.


-Curt



Did the coolant boil out after burping and with a good cap on tight?


There was a thread some years ago with Herr Doktor where he advised us all 
to check our pressure caps and replace every other year on PM principle. 
I don't know the fizzicks, or thmodynamics, but he assured us a mercedes 
(at least 123 or newer) with a faulty or loose radiator/coolant bottle cap 
will overheat.


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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Curt Raymond]

I wonder if our failure to communicate is the difference between a 61x engine 
like my 616 and a 60x engine.

Everybody who has offered up tales of woe from a bad or loose pressure cap has 
talked about a 60x engine. I wonder if that engine has water passages that only 
get accessed with pressure.

Certainly when I put the new radiator in my 240D last fall I could run it up to 
temp with no radiator cap.

You guys do see me writing "RADIATOR CAP" right? Its in the radiator, right 
smack in the middle, there is no overflow bottle. Excess coolant goes out on 
the ground.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 10:24:24 -0400
From: Michael Canfield 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Not always.  My 123 300d has been running just fine for near a year with a
crack in the seam of the coolant reservoir so it really holds no pressure
at all but does not overheat.

Mike

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Curt Raymond]

Okay guys this madness has to end, none of you are apparently actually reading 
anything I write, you've all gotten hung up on the radiator cap.

Lets review the facts:

#1. '78 240D, no expansion tank, no aux pump.

#2. As soon as the car is started coolant starts bubbling out of the hood due 
to bubbles of gas pushing in there. When the car is shut off there is always 
one more big bubble of gas which will push around a cup of coolant off.

#3. The car overheats sitting running in the driveway. While I appreciate 
Luther's story it doesn't relate, the car should not overheat sitting in the 
driveway with the radiator cap off, if it did that would mean there couldn't 
possibly be enough cooling capacity to go on the highway ever.

#4. I drove 5,000 miles (most of it on the highway) with the radiator cap loose 
and the car didn't overheat.

#5. The car will push coolant past the radiator cap and still overheat.

#6. There is no cabin heat when running.

I would submit at this point that you can knock it off about the radiator cap, 
the radiator cap will not save this engine...

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Michael Canfield]

Not always.  My 123 300d has been running just fine for near a year with a
crack in the seam of the coolant reservoir so it really holds no pressure
at all but does not overheat.

Mike
On Jun 17, 2013 10:20 AM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The thing everybody seems to not want to address is the coolant boiling
>> out of the radiator neck...
>>
>> I put both thermostats in a pan of water, they both begin opening around
>> 165F (the old one maybe slightly sooner) and are fully open at 180F. If
>> they're busted its in some manner that I can't see.
>>
>> -Curt
>>
>
>
> Did the coolant boil out after burping and with a good cap on tight?
>
>
> There was a thread some years ago with Herr Doktor where he advised us all
> to check our pressure caps and replace every other year on PM principle.  I
> don't know the fizzicks, or thmodynamics, but he assured us a mercedes (at
> least 123 or newer) with a faulty or loose radiator/coolant bottle cap will
> overheat.
>
> __**_
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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Craig]

On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:13:05 -0500 Benz Hogs 
wrote:

> Find the bumpiest road you can and drive there with full heat running. 
> Stop periodically and refill the expansion tank every so often.  The 
> water pump and aux pumps will pump the system  full.

You are thinking OM60x, Curt has an OM616.


> Alternately, park the front wheels on ramps and fill through the top 
> radiator hose with the defrost running until it runs out of the
> radiator.

Now that will apply to a 240D.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Dieselhead]

The thing everybody seems to not want to address is the coolant 
boiling out of the radiator neck...


I put both thermostats in a pan of water, they both begin opening 
around 165F (the old one maybe slightly sooner) and are fully open 
at 180F. If they're busted its in some manner that I can't see.


-Curt



Did the coolant boil out after burping and with a good cap on tight?


There was a thread some years ago with Herr Doktor where he advised 
us all to check our pressure caps and replace every other year on PM 
principle.  I don't know the fizzicks, or thmodynamics, but he 
assured us a mercedes (at least 123 or newer) with a faulty or loose 
radiator/coolant bottle cap will overheat.


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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Curt Raymond]

That would account for the overheat but not for the coolant bubbling out of the 
radiator.

I think Kevin's theory about a crack somewhere in the block (we went over the 
head carefully) is the mostly likely answer.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:53:35 -0400
From: Mitch Haley 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end
Message-ID: <51be6c1f.5070...@voyager.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Does the water pump still have fins on the impeller?

Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Curt Raymond]

The thing everybody seems to not want to address is the coolant boiling out of 
the radiator neck...

I put both thermostats in a pan of water, they both begin opening around 165F 
(the old one maybe slightly sooner) and are fully open at 180F. If they're 
busted its in some manner that I can't see.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:03:48 -0400
From: Mitch Haley 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end
Message-ID: <51be5264.9020...@voyager.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Curt, is there any chance the t-stat, if new, is defective, or if old, got 
fooked when you blew your head gasket?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Benz Hogs]

Find the bumpiest road you can and drive there with full heat running. 
Stop periodically and refill the expansion tank every so often.  The 
water pump and aux pumps will pump the system  full.


Alternately, park the front wheels on ramps and fill through the top 
radiator hose with the defrost running until it runs out of the radiator.


Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 "Max" (166,xxx mi)

On 6/16/2013 4:33 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

So how do you bleed the air out of the cooling system if you can't run it up to 
temp with the radiator cap off?

-Curt


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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Dieselhead]

Since your headgasket was not "obviously" blown when we took it out, 
I wonder if your problem doesn't lie elsewhere? But where?


Sent from my iPhone


Did y'all check the head for cracks in the usual places as well as 
unusual places?  Usual: prechamber to valve and valve to valve (less 
common)  Last I knew a crack up to 10 mm length is passable.  the 616 
is much better than OM615 and OM621 heads about not cracking.


Try a pressure test on the  rad system.  a good radiator shop can do 
that. or you can buy the kit to pressure test in situ.


If you have a cracked head or block, the air or coolant will go 
somewhere during the test.


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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Mitch Haley]

Does the water pump still have fins on the impeller?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Kevin Kraly]

Could it be a crack in  a water jacket in the block letting combustion 
pressure enter the cooling system?


Kevin in LaPorte, CO 



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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Mitch Haley]

Curt, is there any chance the t-stat, if new, is defective, or if old, got 
fooked when you blew your head gasket?


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[dseretakis]

Since your headgasket was not "obviously" blown when we took it out, I wonder 
if your problem doesn't lie elsewhere? But where?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 16, 2013, at 5:12 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> I have, it belches all the coolant out through the overflow. The cap 
> releasing pressure is actually fairly loud sometimes.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:43:26 -0500
> From: Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com>
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Curt's problem is that it's getting too hot.  The non-tight cap in
>> immaterial.
>> 
>> --Philip
> 
> 
> pressure raises the boiling point.  a 1 bar cap will get you about 30 
> degrees F.  or 242-250 depending on altitude and atmospheric 
> conditions.
> 
> I'd put the cap on and try it again.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Curt Raymond]

So how do you bleed the air out of the cooling system if you can't run it up to 
temp with the radiator cap off?

-Curt

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:28:13 -0500
From: Rick Knoble 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Jun 16, 2013, at 4:17 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:

> 
> I'd say you already had a bad head gasket.


Nope. 

Rick
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Rick Knoble]

On Jun 16, 2013, at 4:17 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:

> 
> I'd say you already had a bad head gasket.


Nope. 

Rick
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Curt Raymond]

I'll call BS on your BS, I drove the car all winter (well from December until 
early May, about 5,000 miles total) with the cap loose at temps from the teens 
through the 70s. I also recall doing it with my '83 240D (although I don't 
remember why) during a whole summer. I think that one might have had a weeping 
radiator.

I'd say you already had a bad head gasket.

At any rate it would be nice if somebody else with a non-suspect car could make 
a test. From cold loosen the radiator cap, run the car for about 15 minutes. It 
helps if the first 5 are moving. See if the car overheats. Mine does, every 
time. During that time the coolant is bubbling out of the radiator, think 
"witches cauldron".

-Curt

Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 02:46:15 -0500
From: Rick Knoble 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Jun 15, 2013, at 11:32 PM, "Fmiser"  wrote:

> Curt's problem is that it's getting too hot.  The non-tight cap in
> immaterial


I call bs. I had a coolant leak on the fuel heater for my 190dt. I thought 
"gee, I'll loosen the coolant cap. That will relieve the pressure in the system 
and the coolant won't leak out as fast". I thought wrong. I was merrily 
motoring down the expressway when I thought to look down at the temp gauge. It 
was pegged. I blew the head gasket. Try it sometime. The pressure cap is a 
pressure cap for a reason. 

Rick
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Curt Raymond]

I have, it belches all the coolant out through the overflow. The cap releasing 
pressure is actually fairly loud sometimes.

-Curt

Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:43:26 -0500
From: Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

>
>
>Curt's problem is that it's getting too hot.  The non-tight cap in
>immaterial.
>
>--Philip


pressure raises the boiling point.  a 1 bar cap will get you about 30 
degrees F.  or 242-250 depending on altitude and atmospheric 
conditions.

I'd put the cap on and try it again.

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Curt Raymond]

Phillip is correct, when the cap is on it will just vent coolant when the 
pressure builds too high as its running.

The problem is not that the coolant boils per-say its that I can't keep coolant 
in the engine.

-Curt

Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:31:01 -0500
From: Fmiser 
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end
Message-ID: <20130615233101.2d66f...@seth.condray.lan>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> > > Luther wrote:
> > >
> > > Good call.  The radiator cap needs to be tight as being loose will
> > > lower the boiling point of the water.  Loose cap = nearly
> > > atmosphere pressure, tight cap should be 3 bar/45psi (I think?).

> > On 6/15/2013 3:56 PM, Craig wrote:
> >
> > No, that's the oil pressure gauge. Radiator caps are around 1
> > bar/15 psig.

> Luther wrote:
>
> Thanks, I had a feeling I was wrong.  The point is that pressure in
> the cooling system helps raise the boiling point.

But in this case, it doesn't matter.  The pressure cap does not change
the temperature, so if it's getting too hot, putting the cap on tight
won't fix it.  It _may_ keep the coolant from boiling, though.

Curt's problem is that it's getting too hot.  The non-tight cap in
immaterial.

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Rick Knoble]

On Jun 15, 2013, at 11:32 PM, "Fmiser"  wrote:

> Curt's problem is that it's getting too hot.  The non-tight cap in
> immaterial


I call bs. I had a coolant leak on the fuel heater for my 190dt. I thought 
"gee, I'll loosen the coolant cap. That will relieve the pressure in the system 
and the coolant won't leak out as fast". I thought wrong. I was merrily 
motoring down the expressway when I thought to look down at the temp gauge. It 
was pegged. I blew the head gasket. Try it sometime. The pressure cap is a 
pressure cap for a reason. 

Rick
Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Dieselhead]

Curt's problem is that it's getting too hot.  The non-tight cap in
immaterial.

--Philip



pressure raises the boiling point.  a 1 bar cap will get you about 30 
degrees F.  or 242-250 depending on altitude and atmospheric 
conditions.


I'd put the cap on and try it again.

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Fmiser]

> > > Luther wrote:
> > >
> > > Good call.  The radiator cap needs to be tight as being loose will
> > > lower the boiling point of the water.  Loose cap = nearly
> > > atmosphere pressure, tight cap should be 3 bar/45psi (I think?).

> > On 6/15/2013 3:56 PM, Craig wrote:
> >
> > No, that's the oil pressure gauge. Radiator caps are around 1
> > bar/15 psig.

> Luther wrote:
>
> Thanks, I had a feeling I was wrong.  The point is that pressure in
> the cooling system helps raise the boiling point.

But in this case, it doesn't matter.  The pressure cap does not change
the temperature, so if it's getting too hot, putting the cap on tight
won't fix it.  It _may_ keep the coolant from boiling, though.

Curt's problem is that it's getting too hot.  The non-tight cap in
immaterial.

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Benz Hogs]

Thanks, I had a feeling I was wrong.  The point is that pressure in the 
cooling system helps raise the boiling point.


Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 "Max" (165,xxx mi)

On 6/15/2013 3:56 PM, Craig wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 14:01:41 -0500 Benz Hogs 
wrote:


Good call.  The radiator cap needs to be tight as being loose will
lower the boiling point of the water.  Loose cap = nearly atmosphere
pressure, tight cap should be 3 bar/45psi (I think?).


No, that's the oil pressure gauge. Radiator caps are around 1 bar/15 psig.


Craig



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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Craig]

On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 14:01:41 -0500 Benz Hogs 
wrote:

> Good call.  The radiator cap needs to be tight as being loose will
> lower the boiling point of the water.  Loose cap = nearly atmosphere
> pressure, tight cap should be 3 bar/45psi (I think?).

No, that's the oil pressure gauge. Radiator caps are around 1 bar/15 psig.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Benz Hogs]

Good call.  The radiator cap needs to be tight as being loose will lower 
the boiling point of the water.  Loose cap = nearly atmosphere pressure, 
tight cap should be 3 bar/45psi (I think?).


Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 "Max" (166,xxx mi)

On 6/14/2013 5:34 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote:

If the rad cap is on tight does it overheat?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 14, 2013, at 4:58 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:


'78 240D

I'm back to where I started, can't keep coolant in the engine, I've put about 3 
gallons in today and its all splashed back out. While the engine is running it 
bubbles and burbles and the coolant level rises over the neck of the radiator. 
I put in more and we repeat...

I don't know why it would have gotten better for awhile and now gone back to 
this, it doesn't make any sense to me but there we are.

Looks like Monday I'll be shopping for a new to me car.

-Curt


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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[OK Don]

Yup, I think you can only see about a thrid of them from the air --- he was
up against all the fences last time I saw them.


On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 9:29 AM, WILTON  wrote:

> Plenty more room under those trees or to the east, or is that neighbor's
> territory?  'Looks like he outgrew the fence.  ;<)
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" 
>
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end
>
>
>
>  OK Don wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure that everyone on the list appreciates what " a whole yard
>>> full" means when reffering to Kaleb!
>>>
>>
>> http://goo.gl/maps/l0f3f
>>
>>
>> Mitch.
>>
>> __**_
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>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>
>>
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>>
>
>
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>



-- 
OK Don
2013 F150
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1957 C182A
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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[WILTON]

Plenty more room under those trees or to the east, or is that neighbor's 
territory?  'Looks like he outgrew the fence.  ;<)


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Mitch Haley" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end



OK Don wrote:

I'm not sure that everyone on the list appreciates what " a whole yard
full" means when reffering to Kaleb!


http://goo.gl/maps/l0f3f


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[WILTON]

A section full?

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "OK Don" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I think its the end



I'm not sure that everyone on the list appreciates what " a whole yard
full" means when reffering to Kaleb!


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 5:38 PM, M. Mitchell Marmel 
wrote:



At 4:35 PM -0500 6/14/13, OK Don wrote:


Kaleb, how many cars do you have for Curt to choose from?



A whole yardful, of course!  :D

-MMM-





--
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2013 F150
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1957 C182A
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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Mitch Haley]

OK Don wrote:

I'm not sure that everyone on the list appreciates what " a whole yard
full" means when reffering to Kaleb!


http://goo.gl/maps/l0f3f


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Fmiser]

> Craig  wrote:
>
> I have an '82 240D engine with a 4-speed transmission on a pallet, in
> case you are interested.

Oooh.  One of the good years.

-- Philip

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Fmiser]

> Curt Raymond  wrote:
>
> I'm back to where I started, can't keep coolant in the engine, 

> Looks like Monday I'll be shopping for a new to me car.

Bother!   How much is a head gasket?  I'd consider having another go at
replacing that before replacing the car.

And too bad you're so far from me, or I'd buy the car from you.  Though
I prefer the '81-'84 cars.

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[OK Don]

I'm not sure that everyone on the list appreciates what " a whole yard
full" means when reffering to Kaleb!


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 5:38 PM, M. Mitchell Marmel wrote:

> At 4:35 PM -0500 6/14/13, OK Don wrote:
>
>> Kaleb, how many cars do you have for Curt to choose from?
>>
>
> A whole yardful, of course!  :D
>
> -MMM-
>
>


-- 
OK Don
2013 F150
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1957 C182A
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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Gerry Archer]

Did you break the glaze on the block and get the heads mating surface 
checked at an auto machine shop?

I always did that and never had one fail.
Gerry

From: "Curt Raymond" 



'78 240D

I'm back to where I started, can't keep coolant in the engine, I've put 
about 3 gallons in today and its all splashed back out. While the engine 
is running it bubbles and burbles and the coolant level rises over the 
neck of the radiator. I put in more and we repeat...


I don't know why it would have gotten better for awhile and now gone back 
to this, it doesn't make any sense to me but there we are.


Looks like Monday I'll be shopping for a new to me car.

-Curt

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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3199/5911 - Release Date: 06/14/13




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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[M. Mitchell Marmel]

At 4:35 PM -0500 6/14/13, OK Don wrote:

Kaleb, how many cars do you have for Curt to choose from?


A whole yardful, of course!  :D

-MMM-

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[dseretakis]

If the rad cap is on tight does it overheat?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 14, 2013, at 4:58 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> '78 240D
> 
> I'm back to where I started, can't keep coolant in the engine, I've put about 
> 3 gallons in today and its all splashed back out. While the engine is running 
> it bubbles and burbles and the coolant level rises over the neck of the 
> radiator. I put in more and we repeat...
> 
> I don't know why it would have gotten better for awhile and now gone back to 
> this, it doesn't make any sense to me but there we are. 
> 
> Looks like Monday I'll be shopping for a new to me car.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Bob Rentfro]

I'd offer you my 1980 240D who's rebuilt Bosch starter does not seem to
enjoy the hot Arizona weather. I'm sure it would perform wonderfully up in
your neck of the woods..

Bob R
On Jun 14, 2013 1:58 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:

> '78 240D
>
> I'm back to where I started, can't keep coolant in the engine, I've put
> about 3 gallons in today and its all splashed back out. While the engine is
> running it bubbles and burbles and the coolant level rises over the neck of
> the radiator. I put in more and we repeat...
>
> I don't know why it would have gotten better for awhile and now gone back
> to this, it doesn't make any sense to me but there we are.
>
> Looks like Monday I'll be shopping for a new to me car.
>
> -Curt
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Mitch Haley]

OK Don wrote:

Kaleb, how many cars do you have for Curt to choose from?


Curt tried that once with the kleb/wonko Dasher, ended up going home empty 
handed.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[OK Don]

Kaleb, how many cars do you have for Curt to choose from?



>


-- 
OK Don
2013 F150
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1957 C182A
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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Randy Bennell]

On 14/06/2013 3:58 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

'78 240D

I'm back to where I started, can't keep coolant in the engine, I've put about 3 
gallons in today and its all splashed back out. While the engine is running it 
bubbles and burbles and the coolant level rises over the neck of the radiator. 
I put in more and we repeat...

I don't know why it would have gotten better for awhile and now gone back to 
this, it doesn't make any sense to me but there we are.

Looks like Monday I'll be shopping for a new to me car.

-Curt




A crack somewhere?


Randy


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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Craig]

On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 16:09:53 -0500 Peter Hertzing 
wrote:

> Curt remind us where you are location wise

Central Massachusetts


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Peter Hertzing]

Curt remind us where you are location wise

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 4:02 PM, WILTON  wrote:

> 'Sorry for the loss; 'hope search goes well.
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "Curt Raymond" 
> To: "Diesel List" 
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 4:58 PM
> Subject: [MBZ] I think its the end
>
>
>
> '78 240D
>>
>> I'm back to where I started, can't keep coolant in the engine, I've put
>> about 3 gallons in today and its all splashed back out. While the engine is
>> running it bubbles and burbles and the coolant level rises over the neck of
>> the radiator. I put in more and we repeat...
>>
>> I don't know why it would have gotten better for awhile and now gone back
>> to this, it doesn't make any sense to me but there we are.
>>
>> Looks like Monday I'll be shopping for a new to me car.
>>
>> -Curt
>>
>> __**_
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives 
>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com<http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>
>>
>
>
> __**_
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives 
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[Craig]

On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 13:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Curt Raymond
 wrote:

> '78 240D
> 
> Looks like Monday I'll be shopping for a new to me car.

I have an '82 240D engine with a 4-speed transmission on a pallet, in
case you are interested.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] I think its the end

[WILTON]

'Sorry for the loss; 'hope search goes well.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Curt Raymond" 

To: "Diesel List" 
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 4:58 PM
Subject: [MBZ] I think its the end



'78 240D

I'm back to where I started, can't keep coolant in the engine, I've put 
about 3 gallons in today and its all splashed back out. While the engine 
is running it bubbles and burbles and the coolant level rises over the 
neck of the radiator. I put in more and we repeat...


I don't know why it would have gotten better for awhile and now gone back 
to this, it doesn't make any sense to me but there we are.


Looks like Monday I'll be shopping for a new to me car.

-Curt

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[MBZ] I think its the end

[Curt Raymond]

'78 240D

I'm back to where I started, can't keep coolant in the engine, I've put about 3 
gallons in today and its all splashed back out. While the engine is running it 
bubbles and burbles and the coolant level rises over the neck of the radiator. 
I put in more and we repeat...

I don't know why it would have gotten better for awhile and now gone back to 
this, it doesn't make any sense to me but there we are. 

Looks like Monday I'll be shopping for a new to me car.

-Curt

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