Re: [MBZ] OT: German Long Hiar Pointers was Shepherds was battery recharge and drivingwiththe lights on
OT for cat lovers: You should have Googled Minipanthers instead. You would have discovered Bombays - world's cutest breed of all-black cats. Very tactile, inquisitive, playful, and affectionate without being annoying/ cloying. One of ours does a feline version of a rolypoly on the floor, the other loves to lick the toothpaste and soap dispensers. On 2/6/07, Christopher McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.germanlonghairpointerbreeders.com/ http://www.germanlonghairpointers.com/index.cfm just googled german long hair pointer breeds certainly have unique temperments/personalities and qualities, but temperment also varies widely within each breed. My two Shepherds have very different personalities. Breed is a better indicator of ...oh, call them value added instincts than personality. For example, pointers will point as early as 5 weeks with no training. A German Shepherd will never point at 5 weeks without training...and it would be dumb to try to train them to do it. Labs love water...not sure about chihuahuas. SO, they suggest you always try to get a good look at both parents (often difficult to do) to learn a little about their temperment. There are also puppy temperment tests which give a pretty good indication of what you're in for. These tests are highly developed (although not necessarily complicated) as they use them to select puppies for various EXPENSIVE training programs (seeing eye dogs, for example) and they try to select for exactly what they want BEFORE spending alot of money on rearing and training. Chris Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK Don wrote: Life begins when the last child leaves home and the dog dies. I never heard about GLP -- had a few very nice GSPs in my youth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_%28German_Longhaired%29 Supposed to be a tad less high strung than a GSP. The GWP (Drahthaar) is supposed to be a bit more assertive than a GSP, and the female my father had was. When a realtor stuck his head in the kennel to check them out, it was the GWP that tried to take it off. If I were exercising them together, it would be the GWP that decided to head for the hills (with my GSP bitch in hot pursuit, but she rarely started the adventure). I learned to make sure I had the key to the CB650 in my pocket before I turned them off-lead. If I didn't head them off before they hit the woods 3/8 of a mile away, I might not see them again for a while (usually 1-3 hours for the GSP, but the GWP once took off for 3 days). That GSP was 8 years old before I could move her inside with me, and I decided I'd not kennel a dog outside again if I could help it. They just don't get enough attention that way, especially in the winter. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: German Long Hiar Pointers was Shepherds was battery recharge and drivingwiththe lights on
Yes, I would remind that breeds certainly do vary within a breed. The poorer, or the less-focused the breeding program, the more the variance. I include in the category of less-focused those that breed for pets and not for the particular purpose for which the breed was developed. Yes, there are breeds that were developed for no purpose other than to be a pet, and it is harder to find actual proof of the puppy's quality in these cases. As Chris said, there are puppy tests that judge temperament, though I've found a lot of breeders get offended if you offer to administer them. Most breeders that think highly of their program will tell you what's up rather than have you tell them anything. Most of the time, at least in the case of working kennels, the breeder will profile you and decide which pup is the best match for you. Research and attend dog shows or performance events pertaining to the breed you are interested in. People are usually more than happy to tell you the good and the bad about the breed unless they are getting ready for their ring time. However, they are much less willing to speak of who is a good or bad breeder. Meeting the dam and sire are pretty useful, though certainly no guarantee. Brian Chris wrote: breeds certainly have unique temperments/personalities and qualities, but temperment also varies widely within each breed.
Re: [MBZ] OT: German Long Hiar Pointers was Shepherds was battery recharge and drivingwiththe lights on
There is only one ethical way to choose a dog breed: adopt your pet from the local humane society shelter! There are a plethora of sizes, breeds and temperaments to choose from, and the modest adoption fee goes to a good cause. That's where we found Woby, a Tibetan Terrier who had the highest bark to size ratio of any dog in existence to go with his woebegone expression. On 2/7/07, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I would remind that breeds certainly do vary within a breed. The poorer, or the less-focused the breeding program, the more the variance. I include in the category of less-focused those that breed for pets and not for the particular purpose for which the breed was developed. Yes, there are breeds that were developed for no purpose other than to be a pet, and it is harder to find actual proof of the puppy's quality in these cases. As Chris said, there are puppy tests that judge temperament, though I've found a lot of breeders get offended if you offer to administer them. Most breeders that think highly of their program will tell you what's up rather than have you tell them anything. Most of the time, at least in the case of working kennels, the breeder will profile you and decide which pup is the best match for you. Research and attend dog shows or performance events pertaining to the breed you are interested in. People are usually more than happy to tell you the good and the bad about the breed unless they are getting ready for their ring time. However, they are much less willing to speak of who is a good or bad breeder. Meeting the dam and sire are pretty useful, though certainly no guarantee. Brian Chris wrote: breeds certainly have unique temperments/personalities and qualities, but temperment also varies widely within each breed. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: German Long Hiar Pointers was Shepherds was battery recharge and drivingwiththe lights on
Most of the time, at least in the case of working kennels, the breeder will profile you and decide which pup is the best match for you. Yes, that has been my experience too. Chris Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I would remind that breeds certainly do vary within a breed. The poorer, or the less-focused the breeding program, the more the variance. I include in the category of less-focused those that breed for pets and not for the particular purpose for which the breed was developed. Yes, there are breeds that were developed for no purpose other than to be a pet, and it is harder to find actual proof of the puppy's quality in these cases. As Chris said, there are puppy tests that judge temperament, though I've found a lot of breeders get offended if you offer to administer them. Most breeders that think highly of their program will tell you what's up rather than have you tell them anything. Most of the time, at least in the case of working kennels, the breeder will profile you and decide which pup is the best match for you. Research and attend dog shows or performance events pertaining to the breed you are interested in. People are usually more than happy to tell you the good and the bad about the breed unless they are getting ready for their ring time. However, they are much less willing to speak of who is a good or bad breeder. Meeting the dam and sire are pretty useful, though certainly no guarantee. Brian Chris wrote: breeds certainly have unique temperments/personalities and qualities, but temperment also varies widely within each breed. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Feb 07 15:52:03 2007 Received: from postal.windwireless.net ([199.164.167.12] helo=mail.windwireless.net) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) id 1HEp5X-0004C6-0R for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Wed, 07 Feb 2007 15:52:03 + Received: from windwireless.net (unverified [206.63.94.197]) by windwireless.net (WindPostal) with ESMTP id 1736046 for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Wed, 07 Feb 2007 08:06:32 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 07:51:23 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com r=-412260344 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Convertible? X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 15:52:03 - Roadsters are two seaters, convertibles 4 place. But then, what do you=20= call an SL with the kinder seat option? We call the SL's rear 'seat' area the 'bucket'. Wiki's opinion: Roadster is the North American term for a 2-seater without a permanent=20= top and without rollup windows (if it has rollup windows it is a=20 cabriolet, not a roadster), and the windshield is bolt on rather than=20 integrated as in modern cars. Even with the lightweight convertible top=20= raised and the clear plastic windows snapped in, the driver and=20 passenger remain somewhat exposed to the elements. Convertible is an=20= abbreviation of convertible coupe or convertible sedan which in=20 1920s-30s parlance indicated that the car had roll-up side windows=20 instead of removable windows (usually called sidecurtains in America).=20= In modern times, the word is often used to describe a two-seat=20 convertible without fixed window frames, especially a light-weight=20 sports car. Most modern day production roadsters only meet one of the=20= three criteria. Here, the use of the name roadster is more a marketing=20= gimmick than a technical label, invoking the feeling of an open-top=20 machine for enjoyment, like those of the past. Also: In the 19th century a
Re: [MBZ] OT: German Long Hiar Pointers was Shepherds was battery recharge and drivingwiththe lights on
I do think that adopting a shelter dog is a wonderful thing to do. 3-4 million dogs are euthanized in the US every year, which is a terrible shame. However, it is NOT the only ethical way to acquire a dog. Serious breeders, who are not in it for money, but to continually improve the breed are a great benefit to dogdom and to society. Many dogs are working dogs - they have jobs. If everyone bought from shelters and stopped buying purebred dogs, these breeds would be gone. Herding dogs for farmers, flock protection dogs for ranchers, hunting dogs for all types of hunting, German Shepherds alone are suited to S many useful tasks: seeing eye dogs, police work, seizure detection, blood sugar reminder dogs for diabetics (they smell your sugar level and poke your tummy when you need to eat)many more example could be given. Critter Control in Kansas City uses terriers for their original purpose - killing rats in your house! The various qualities of working breeds must be retained, LITERALLY for the good of society. It's not by accident that dogs were domesticated over 7,000 years ago and have been an important part of society since. They are not just fluffy moving decorations/toys. It used to be that dogs were primarily to do a job. Now most are companions (which is a job too, but different). If you want a companion dog, yeah, seriously check out the local shelter. But to say this is the only ethical way to get a dog is rediculous. I think your concern is much better channelled into encouraging people who have NO BUSINESS breeding dogs to have theirs neutered and spayed. Most dogs end up in shelters because of obedience problems...99% of the time it's the owners fault. In Kansas City, we have a great and inexpensive dog obedience school whose mission is to train owners so that they have well behaved dogs that do not end up in shelters. Chris andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is only one ethical way to choose a dog breed: adopt your pet from the local humane society shelter! There are a plethora of sizes, breeds and temperaments to choose from, and the modest adoption fee goes to a good cause. That's where we found Woby, a Tibetan Terrier who had the highest bark to size ratio of any dog in existence to go with his woebegone expression. On 2/7/07, Zoltan Finks wrote: Yes, I would remind that breeds certainly do vary within a breed. The poorer, or the less-focused the breeding program, the more the variance. I include in the category of less-focused those that breed for pets and not for the particular purpose for which the breed was developed. Yes, there are breeds that were developed for no purpose other than to be a pet, and it is harder to find actual proof of the puppy's quality in these cases. As Chris said, there are puppy tests that judge temperament, though I've found a lot of breeders get offended if you offer to administer them. Most breeders that think highly of their program will tell you what's up rather than have you tell them anything. Most of the time, at least in the case of working kennels, the breeder will profile you and decide which pup is the best match for you. Research and attend dog shows or performance events pertaining to the breed you are interested in. People are usually more than happy to tell you the good and the bad about the breed unless they are getting ready for their ring time. However, they are much less willing to speak of who is a good or bad breeder. Meeting the dam and sire are pretty useful, though certainly no guarantee. Brian Chris wrote: breeds certainly have unique temperments/personalities and qualities, but temperment also varies widely within each breed. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Feb 07 16:06:56 2007 Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.192.83]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) id 1HEpJw-000554-St for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Wed, 07 Feb 2007 16:06:56 + Received: from rmailcenter74.comcast.net ([204.127.197.156]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id 20070207160615m1300do7b7e; Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:06:15 + Received: from [208.27.111.119] by
Re: [MBZ] OT: German Long Hiar Pointers was Shepherds was battery recharge and drivingwiththe lights on
I knew my comment would get a rise out of somebody! Good point about the need for work and guide dogs - I hadn't thought of that. My comment was directed more to what I call vanity dogs, those rare and pricey breeds that attract humans (aka owners) who use them as an exotic fashion accessory or lifestyle enhancer. On 2/7/07, Christopher McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do think that adopting a shelter dog is a wonderful thing to do. 3-4 million dogs are euthanized in the US every year, which is a terrible shame. However, it is NOT the only ethical way to acquire a dog. Serious breeders, who are not in it for money, but to continually improve the breed are a great benefit to dogdom and to society. Many dogs are working dogs - they have jobs. If everyone bought from shelters and stopped buying purebred dogs, these breeds would be gone. Herding dogs for farmers, flock protection dogs for ranchers, hunting dogs for all types of hunting, German Shepherds alone are suited to S many useful tasks: seeing eye dogs, police work, seizure detection, blood sugar reminder dogs for diabetics (they smell your sugar level and poke your tummy when you need to eat)many more example could be given. Critter Control in Kansas City uses terriers for their original purpose - killing rats in your house! The various qualities of working breeds must be retained, LITERALLY for the good of society. It's not by accident that dogs were domesticated over 7,000 years ago and have been an important part of society since. They are not just fluffy moving decorations/toys. It used to be that dogs were primarily to do a job. Now most are companions (which is a job too, but different). If you want a companion dog, yeah, seriously check out the local shelter. But to say this is the only ethical way to get a dog is rediculous. I think your concern is much better channelled into encouraging people who have NO BUSINESS breeding dogs to have theirs neutered and spayed. Most dogs end up in shelters because of obedience problems...99% of the time it's the owners fault. In Kansas City, we have a great and inexpensive dog obedience school whose mission is to train owners so that they have well behaved dogs that do not end up in shelters. Chris andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is only one ethical way to choose a dog breed: adopt your pet from the local humane society shelter! There are a plethora of sizes, breeds and temperaments to choose from, and the modest adoption fee goes to a good cause. That's where we found Woby, a Tibetan Terrier who had the highest bark to size ratio of any dog in existence to go with his woebegone expression. On 2/7/07, Zoltan Finks wrote: Yes, I would remind that breeds certainly do vary within a breed. The poorer, or the less-focused the breeding program, the more the variance. I include in the category of less-focused those that breed for pets and not for the particular purpose for which the breed was developed. Yes, there are breeds that were developed for no purpose other than to be a pet, and it is harder to find actual proof of the puppy's quality in these cases. As Chris said, there are puppy tests that judge temperament, though I've found a lot of breeders get offended if you offer to administer them. Most breeders that think highly of their program will tell you what's up rather than have you tell them anything. Most of the time, at least in the case of working kennels, the breeder will profile you and decide which pup is the best match for you. Research and attend dog shows or performance events pertaining to the breed you are interested in. People are usually more than happy to tell you the good and the bad about the breed unless they are getting ready for their ring time. However, they are much less willing to speak of who is a good or bad breeder. Meeting the dam and sire are pretty useful, though certainly no guarantee. Brian Chris wrote: breeds certainly have unique temperments/personalities and qualities, but temperment also varies widely within each breed. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To
Re: [MBZ] OT: German Long Hiar Pointers was Shepherds was battery recharge and drivingwiththe lights on
I only recently started learning about how important dogs have been and can be - it is truly amazing. Germany considers the German Shepherd a national asset - they use them for everything. (Germans invented the seeing eye dog). They now even have cancer detection dogs - sniff urine for prostate cancer, sniff breath for lung cancer, sniff moles and can indicate if they are benign of malignant. Search and Rescue dogs, etc. St. Bernards (avalanche). Natural gas detection dogs are FAR more accurate than the gas detection meter. It really is amazing. Read about medic dogs in the army trained to pull wounded men to cover when they are under fire and can't move due to being shot. Incredible stuff. If I had Paris Hilton's chihuahua Tinkerbell in mind, I might have been tempted to say what you did! :-) Chris andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I knew my comment would get a rise out of somebody! Good point about the need for work and guide dogs - I hadn't thought of that. My comment was directed more to what I call vanity dogs, those rare and pricey breeds that attract humans (aka owners) who use them as an exotic fashion accessory or lifestyle enhancer. On 2/7/07, Christopher McCann wrote: I do think that adopting a shelter dog is a wonderful thing to do. 3-4 million dogs are euthanized in the US every year, which is a terrible shame. However, it is NOT the only ethical way to acquire a dog. Serious breeders, who are not in it for money, but to continually improve the breed are a great benefit to dogdom and to society. Many dogs are working dogs - they have jobs. If everyone bought from shelters and stopped buying purebred dogs, these breeds would be gone. Herding dogs for farmers, flock protection dogs for ranchers, hunting dogs for all types of hunting, German Shepherds alone are suited to S many useful tasks: seeing eye dogs, police work, seizure detection, blood sugar reminder dogs for diabetics (they smell your sugar level and poke your tummy when you need to eat)many more example could be given. Critter Control in Kansas City uses terriers for their original purpose - killing rats in your house! The various qualities of working breeds must be retained, LITERALLY for the good of society. It's not by accident that dogs were domesticated over 7,000 years ago and have been an important part of society since. They are not just fluffy moving decorations/toys. It used to be that dogs were primarily to do a job. Now most are companions (which is a job too, but different). If you want a companion dog, yeah, seriously check out the local shelter. But to say this is the only ethical way to get a dog is rediculous. I think your concern is much better channelled into encouraging people who have NO BUSINESS breeding dogs to have theirs neutered and spayed. Most dogs end up in shelters because of obedience problems...99% of the time it's the owners fault. In Kansas City, we have a great and inexpensive dog obedience school whose mission is to train owners so that they have well behaved dogs that do not end up in shelters. Chris andrew strasfogel wrote: There is only one ethical way to choose a dog breed: adopt your pet from the local humane society shelter! There are a plethora of sizes, breeds and temperaments to choose from, and the modest adoption fee goes to a good cause. That's where we found Woby, a Tibetan Terrier who had the highest bark to size ratio of any dog in existence to go with his woebegone expression. On 2/7/07, Zoltan Finks wrote: Yes, I would remind that breeds certainly do vary within a breed. The poorer, or the less-focused the breeding program, the more the variance. I include in the category of less-focused those that breed for pets and not for the particular purpose for which the breed was developed. Yes, there are breeds that were developed for no purpose other than to be a pet, and it is harder to find actual proof of the puppy's quality in these cases. As Chris said, there are puppy tests that judge temperament, though I've found a lot of breeders get offended if you offer to administer them. Most breeders that think highly of their program will tell you what's up rather than have you tell them anything. Most of the time, at least in the case of working kennels, the breeder will profile you and decide which pup is the best match for you. Research and attend dog shows or performance events pertaining to the breed you are interested in. People are usually more than happy to tell you the good and the bad about the breed unless they are getting ready for their ring time. However, they are much less willing to speak of who is a good or bad breeder. Meeting the dam and sire are pretty useful, though certainly no guarantee. Brian Chris wrote: breeds certainly have unique
Re: [MBZ] OT: German Long Hiar Pointers was Shepherds was battery recharge and drivingwiththe lights on
Please don't misunderstand me. I appreciate working dogs because I grew up in NYC with a pet BORDER COLLIE, highly intelligent but perhaps the most INappropriate dog to own in a big city apartment building. He used to root up ladies' dreses with his snout thinking he was herding sheep. He also would only drink water from the bathroom sink - nevrr from a bowl or dish. On 2/7/07, Christopher McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I only recently started learning about how important dogs have been and can be - it is truly amazing. Germany considers the German Shepherd a national asset - they use them for everything. (Germans invented the seeing eye dog). They now even have cancer detection dogs - sniff urine for prostate cancer, sniff breath for lung cancer, sniff moles and can indicate if they are benign of malignant. Search and Rescue dogs, etc. St. Bernards (avalanche). Natural gas detection dogs are FAR more accurate than the gas detection meter. It really is amazing. Read about medic dogs in the army trained to pull wounded men to cover when they are under fire and can't move due to being shot. Incredible stuff. If I had Paris Hilton's chihuahua Tinkerbell in mind, I might have been tempted to say what you did! :-) Chris andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I knew my comment would get a rise out of somebody! Good point about the need for work and guide dogs - I hadn't thought of that. My comment was directed more to what I call vanity dogs, those rare and pricey breeds that attract humans (aka owners) who use them as an exotic fashion accessory or lifestyle enhancer. On 2/7/07, Christopher McCann wrote: I do think that adopting a shelter dog is a wonderful thing to do. 3-4 million dogs are euthanized in the US every year, which is a terrible shame. However, it is NOT the only ethical way to acquire a dog. Serious breeders, who are not in it for money, but to continually improve the breed are a great benefit to dogdom and to society. Many dogs are working dogs - they have jobs. If everyone bought from shelters and stopped buying purebred dogs, these breeds would be gone. Herding dogs for farmers, flock protection dogs for ranchers, hunting dogs for all types of hunting, German Shepherds alone are suited to S many useful tasks: seeing eye dogs, police work, seizure detection, blood sugar reminder dogs for diabetics (they smell your sugar level and poke your tummy when you need to eat)many more example could be given. Critter Control in Kansas City uses terriers for their original purpose - killing rats in your house! The various qualities of working breeds must be retained, LITERALLY for the good of society. It's not by accident that dogs were domesticated over 7,000 years ago and have been an important part of society since. They are not just fluffy moving decorations/toys. It used to be that dogs were primarily to do a job. Now most are companions (which is a job too, but different). If you want a companion dog, yeah, seriously check out the local shelter. But to say this is the only ethical way to get a dog is rediculous. I think your concern is much better channelled into encouraging people who have NO BUSINESS breeding dogs to have theirs neutered and spayed. Most dogs end up in shelters because of obedience problems...99% of the time it's the owners fault. In Kansas City, we have a great and inexpensive dog obedience school whose mission is to train owners so that they have well behaved dogs that do not end up in shelters. Chris andrew strasfogel wrote: There is only one ethical way to choose a dog breed: adopt your pet from the local humane society shelter! There are a plethora of sizes, breeds and temperaments to choose from, and the modest adoption fee goes to a good cause. That's where we found Woby, a Tibetan Terrier who had the highest bark to size ratio of any dog in existence to go with his woebegone expression. On 2/7/07, Zoltan Finks wrote: Yes, I would remind that breeds certainly do vary within a breed. The poorer, or the less-focused the breeding program, the more the variance. I include in the category of less-focused those that breed for pets and not for the particular purpose for which the breed was developed. Yes, there are breeds that were developed for no purpose other than to be a pet, and it is harder to find actual proof of the puppy's quality in these cases. As Chris said, there are puppy tests that judge temperament, though I've found a lot of breeders get offended if you offer to administer them. Most breeders that think highly of their program will tell you what's up rather than have you tell them anything. Most of the time, at least in the case of working kennels, the breeder will profile you and decide which pup is the best match for you. Research and attend dog shows or performance events pertaining to the breed
Re: [MBZ] OT: German Long Hiar Pointers was Shepherds was battery recharge and drivingwiththe lights on
A Border Collie in a NYC apartment isn't the best match. At least he didn't nip at their heels...or their butts after lifting their dresses. My Shepherd goosed a lady at Petsmart the other day as she was reaching for something on the top shelf. Pretty funny. Chris andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't misunderstand me. I appreciate working dogs because I grew up in NYC with a pet BORDER COLLIE, highly intelligent but perhaps the most INappropriate dog to own in a big city apartment building. He used to root up ladies' dreses with his snout thinking he was herding sheep. He also would only drink water from the bathroom sink - nevrr from a bowl or dish. On 2/7/07, Christopher McCann wrote: I only recently started learning about how important dogs have been and can be - it is truly amazing. Germany considers the German Shepherd a national asset - they use them for everything. (Germans invented the seeing eye dog). They now even have cancer detection dogs - sniff urine for prostate cancer, sniff breath for lung cancer, sniff moles and can indicate if they are benign of malignant. Search and Rescue dogs, etc. St. Bernards (avalanche). Natural gas detection dogs are FAR more accurate than the gas detection meter. It really is amazing. Read about medic dogs in the army trained to pull wounded men to cover when they are under fire and can't move due to being shot. Incredible stuff. If I had Paris Hilton's chihuahua Tinkerbell in mind, I might have been tempted to say what you did! :-) Chris andrew strasfogel wrote: I knew my comment would get a rise out of somebody! Good point about the need for work and guide dogs - I hadn't thought of that. My comment was directed more to what I call vanity dogs, those rare and pricey breeds that attract humans (aka owners) who use them as an exotic fashion accessory or lifestyle enhancer. On 2/7/07, Christopher McCann wrote: I do think that adopting a shelter dog is a wonderful thing to do. 3-4 million dogs are euthanized in the US every year, which is a terrible shame. However, it is NOT the only ethical way to acquire a dog. Serious breeders, who are not in it for money, but to continually improve the breed are a great benefit to dogdom and to society. Many dogs are working dogs - they have jobs. If everyone bought from shelters and stopped buying purebred dogs, these breeds would be gone. Herding dogs for farmers, flock protection dogs for ranchers, hunting dogs for all types of hunting, German Shepherds alone are suited to S many useful tasks: seeing eye dogs, police work, seizure detection, blood sugar reminder dogs for diabetics (they smell your sugar level and poke your tummy when you need to eat)many more example could be given. Critter Control in Kansas City uses terriers for their original purpose - killing rats in your house! The various qualities of working breeds must be retained, LITERALLY for the good of society. It's not by accident that dogs were domesticated over 7,000 years ago and have been an important part of society since. They are not just fluffy moving decorations/toys. It used to be that dogs were primarily to do a job. Now most are companions (which is a job too, but different). If you want a companion dog, yeah, seriously check out the local shelter. But to say this is the only ethical way to get a dog is rediculous. I think your concern is much better channelled into encouraging people who have NO BUSINESS breeding dogs to have theirs neutered and spayed. Most dogs end up in shelters because of obedience problems...99% of the time it's the owners fault. In Kansas City, we have a great and inexpensive dog obedience school whose mission is to train owners so that they have well behaved dogs that do not end up in shelters. Chris andrew strasfogel wrote: There is only one ethical way to choose a dog breed: adopt your pet from the local humane society shelter! There are a plethora of sizes, breeds and temperaments to choose from, and the modest adoption fee goes to a good cause. That's where we found Woby, a Tibetan Terrier who had the highest bark to size ratio of any dog in existence to go with his woebegone expression. On 2/7/07, Zoltan Finks wrote: Yes, I would remind that breeds certainly do vary within a breed. The poorer, or the less-focused the breeding program, the more the variance. I include in the category of less-focused those that breed for pets and not for the particular purpose for which the breed was developed. Yes, there are breeds that were developed for no purpose other than to be a pet, and it is harder to find actual proof of the puppy's quality in these cases. As Chris said, there are puppy tests that judge temperament, though I've found a lot of breeders get
Re: [MBZ] OT: German Long Hiar Pointers was Shepherds was battery recharge and drivingwiththe lights on
http://www.germanlonghairpointerbreeders.com/ http://www.germanlonghairpointers.com/index.cfm just googled german long hair pointer breeds certainly have unique temperments/personalities and qualities, but temperment also varies widely within each breed. My two Shepherds have very different personalities. Breed is a better indicator of ...oh, call them value added instincts than personality. For example, pointers will point as early as 5 weeks with no training. A German Shepherd will never point at 5 weeks without training...and it would be dumb to try to train them to do it. Labs love water...not sure about chihuahuas. SO, they suggest you always try to get a good look at both parents (often difficult to do) to learn a little about their temperment. There are also puppy temperment tests which give a pretty good indication of what you're in for. These tests are highly developed (although not necessarily complicated) as they use them to select puppies for various EXPENSIVE training programs (seeing eye dogs, for example) and they try to select for exactly what they want BEFORE spending alot of money on rearing and training. Chris Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK Don wrote: Life begins when the last child leaves home and the dog dies. I never heard about GLP -- had a few very nice GSPs in my youth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_%28German_Longhaired%29 Supposed to be a tad less high strung than a GSP. The GWP (Drahthaar) is supposed to be a bit more assertive than a GSP, and the female my father had was. When a realtor stuck his head in the kennel to check them out, it was the GWP that tried to take it off. If I were exercising them together, it would be the GWP that decided to head for the hills (with my GSP bitch in hot pursuit, but she rarely started the adventure). I learned to make sure I had the key to the CB650 in my pocket before I turned them off-lead. If I didn't head them off before they hit the woods 3/8 of a mile away, I might not see them again for a while (usually 1-3 hours for the GSP, but the GWP once took off for 3 days). That GSP was 8 years old before I could move her inside with me, and I decided I'd not kennel a dog outside again if I could help it. They just don't get enough attention that way, especially in the winter. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Feb 06 19:48:25 2007 Received: from wnpgmb02-group-smtpout.mts.net ([142.161.130.102] helo=mx-mtaout01.mts.net) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) id 1HEWIi-lk-V9 for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Tue, 06 Feb 2007 19:48:25 + Received: from wnpgmb02-c600c.mts.net ([172.17.170.22]) by mx-mtaout01.mts.net with ESMTP id [EMAIL PROTECTED] for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:47:43 -0600 Received: from wnpgmb09dc1-153-35.dynamic.mts.net (HELO one) ([204.112.153.35]) by wnpgmb02-c600c.mts.net with SMTP; 06 Feb 2007 13:47:41 -0600 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AA== X-IronPort-AV: i=4.13,291,1167631200; d=scan'208; a=168456095:sNHT24285667 From: R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:51:28 -0600 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Global Warming rebuttal X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 19:48:25 - I have no desire to be part of the problem BUT I am not interested in freezing in the dark either. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL
