Re: [MBZ] OT but NOT political

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Ohio.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On January 25, 2017 7:59:51 PM EST, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>What state or county was the subject of a voting rights suit over their
>practice of 
>deleting voters from the rolls after not voting in X number of
>consecutive elections?
>Was it in Indiana?
>
>Mitch. 
>
>
>> On January 25, 2017 at 3:32 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Are you supposed to "unregister" in a state before you register in
>another state? How do you do that?
>> I never "unregistered" from Maine when I moved to MA so I'm sure for
>awhile I was registered in two states. I wonder if theres some way to
>check that. I haven't voted in Maine since the '90s, surely they've
>purged me from the rolls since then.
>> -Curt
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT but NOT political

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

What state or county was the subject of a voting rights suit over their 
practice of 
deleting voters from the rolls after not voting in X number of consecutive 
elections?
Was it in Indiana?

Mitch. 


> On January 25, 2017 at 3:32 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Are you supposed to "unregister" in a state before you register in another 
> state? How do you do that?
> I never "unregistered" from Maine when I moved to MA so I'm sure for awhile I 
> was registered in two states. I wonder if theres some way to check that. I 
> haven't voted in Maine since the '90s, surely they've purged me from the 
> rolls since then.
> -Curt
>

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[MBZ] OT but NOT political

[rogerhga--- via Mercedes]

Andrew, 
My daughter still gets mail from businesses, state, and local government about 
many things. BUT she hasn't lived at home in over 15 years while living in two 
other states. I think this 2 state voter registration issue says more about the 
states needs to verify and clean up their voter lists than anything else. 
Having questionable voter lists encourages voter fraud as much as not requiring 
a voter ID. 
Just a thought on this issue... 
Best Wishes, 
Roger 
Roger Hale 
Dinnerware Classics, Inc. 
Monroe, Ga. 
770-267-0850 
www.dinnerwareclassics.com 


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Re: [MBZ] OT but NOT political

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

There is always Banned. Banned Lite still exists too. 

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT but NOT political

[OK Don via Mercedes]

So is Steve Bannon  - -  Trump did warn us that the election was rigged -
he just didn't say which way.

(claps hands over mouth/keyboard after banned speech on the list.)

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Voter fraud - It can happen to the best of us!
>
> "Donald Trump's nominee to head the Treasury department, Steven Mnuchin, is
> registered to vote in two states
>  voter-registration/index.html>,
> a CNN KFile review of paperwork obtained through open records requests in
> New York and California show.
> While it is illegal to cast ballots in multiple states, it is not illegal
> to be registered in two states at the same time. In a tweet Wednesday, the
> president called for an investigation into voter fraud, including whether
> citizens are registered to vote in two states."
>
> Of course, there are probably "alternative facts" that could totally refute
> this allegation.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT but NOT political

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Are you supposed to "unregister" in a state before you register in another 
state? How do you do that?
I never "unregistered" from Maine when I moved to MA so I'm sure for awhile I 
was registered in two states. I wonder if theres some way to check that. I 
haven't voted in Maine since the '90s, surely they've purged me from the rolls 
since then.
-Curt

  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 3:04 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] OT but NOT political
   
Voter fraud - It can happen to the best of us!

"Donald Trump's nominee to head the Treasury department, Steven Mnuchin, is
registered to vote in two states
<http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/25/politics/kfile-mnuchin-voter-registration/index.html>,
a CNN KFile review of paperwork obtained through open records requests in
New York and California show.
While it is illegal to cast ballots in multiple states, it is not illegal
to be registered in two states at the same time. In a tweet Wednesday, the
president called for an investigation into voter fraud, including whether
citizens are registered to vote in two states."

Of course, there are probably "alternative facts" that could totally refute
this allegation.
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Re: [MBZ] OT but NOT political

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Couldn't resist - it is just SO funny/ironic.  Besides, Rich and others
vented on politically-tinged topics earlier today.

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I, for one, consider that to be the sort of thing that Kaleb said one was
> not to post.
> You have to know that there are some who will not be able to Not Respond.
>
> RB
>
> On 25/01/2017 2:04 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Voter fraud - It can happen to the best of us!
>>
>> "Donald Trump's nominee to head the Treasury department, Steven Mnuchin,
>> is
>> registered to vote in two states
>> > registration/index.html>,
>> a CNN KFile review of paperwork obtained through open records requests in
>> New York and California show.
>> While it is illegal to cast ballots in multiple states, it is not illegal
>> to be registered in two states at the same time. In a tweet Wednesday, the
>> president called for an investigation into voter fraud, including whether
>> citizens are registered to vote in two states."
>>
>> Of course, there are probably "alternative facts" that could totally
>> refute
>> this allegation.
>> ___
>>
>>
>>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT but NOT political

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

I, for one, consider that to be the sort of thing that Kaleb said one 
was not to post.

You have to know that there are some who will not be able to Not Respond.

RB

On 25/01/2017 2:04 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

Voter fraud - It can happen to the best of us!

"Donald Trump's nominee to head the Treasury department, Steven Mnuchin, is
registered to vote in two states
,
a CNN KFile review of paperwork obtained through open records requests in
New York and California show.
While it is illegal to cast ballots in multiple states, it is not illegal
to be registered in two states at the same time. In a tweet Wednesday, the
president called for an investigation into voter fraud, including whether
citizens are registered to vote in two states."

Of course, there are probably "alternative facts" that could totally refute
this allegation.
___





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[MBZ] OT but NOT political

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Voter fraud - It can happen to the best of us!

"Donald Trump's nominee to head the Treasury department, Steven Mnuchin, is
registered to vote in two states
,
a CNN KFile review of paperwork obtained through open records requests in
New York and California show.
While it is illegal to cast ballots in multiple states, it is not illegal
to be registered in two states at the same time. In a tweet Wednesday, the
president called for an investigation into voter fraud, including whether
citizens are registered to vote in two states."

Of course, there are probably "alternative facts" that could totally refute
this allegation.
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[MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - FLYING MOWER BLADES

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Yep, another one; not many left.  ;)

FLYING MOWER BLADES
By Wilton Strickland

(The reader may wonder how this little story has anything to do with 
BUFFs.  It is merely another small insight into the total picture of being 
in the BUFF.  For about thirty-five years, from 1957 until the collapse of 
the Soviet Union in the early ‘90‘s, nearly a third of a BUFF crewman’s time 
was spent on ground alert.  Though crewmen could travel short distances on 
base for short periods to certain facilities with alert warning devices 
(klaxons), most of a crewman’s time on alert - usually, a week each alert 
tour - was spent in and around the alert facility.  These crew living 
facilities were operated and maintained twenty-four hours a day, seven days 
a week, for the duration of Strategic Air Command’s alert commitment.)
On several occasions in 1980 or ‘81, I overheard the B-52 alert 
facility manager at Seymour Johnson AFB, NC, mention that they were having a 
hard time keeping the grass around the facility cut because the blades kept 
coming off the mower.  At first, I didn’t pay any attention to these 
comments, because it wasn’t my business, and I was concerned about other 
stuff - B-52 mission stuff.
One day, though, while I was at the alert facility to brief crews on an 
upcoming exercise, I overheard the alert manager mention that they were 
having to send the mower back to maintenance again because the blades had 
come off, it finally registered with me - if the blades were coming off, 
they must be turning backward and unscrewing the mounting nuts on the ends 
of the blade shafts.  I had seen the mower sitting in the grass by the 
building on my way in from the parking lot.
Without saying anything else to anyone, I went outside to the mower and 
looked under it at a blade that was still attached.  Immediately, I could 
see that the backside (normally the trailing edge of the blade) was bright 
and shiny - the blades were, indeed, turning backward!  I noted that one 
could easily install the belt from the engine to the main blade drive pulley 
in a manner to make the blades turn the wrong direction - just put the belt 
on with a twist to turn the drive pulley the opposite direction from that 
intended.  Several days earlier, a mechanic had put a new belt on in a 
manner that turned the blades backward and had been doing so for quite some 
time.
I went back in the building and asked the facilities manager to go 
outside to the mower with me for a couple of minutes.  He was glad to learn 
that the solution to the frustrating and long-running mower problem was so 
simple.



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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - FLYING MOWER BLADES

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

ATTABOY!

On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 9:07 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 Yep, another one; not many left.  ;)

 FLYING MOWER BLADES
 By Wilton Strickland

 (The reader may wonder how this little story has anything to do with
 BUFFs.  It is merely another small insight into the total picture of being
 in the BUFF.  For about thirty-five years, from 1957 until the collapse of
 the Soviet Union in the early ‘90‘s, nearly a third of a BUFF crewman’s
 time was spent on ground alert.  Though crewmen could travel short
 distances on base for short periods to certain facilities with alert
 warning devices (klaxons), most of a crewman’s time on alert - usually, a
 week each alert tour - was spent in and around the alert facility.  These
 crew living facilities were operated and maintained twenty-four hours a
 day, seven days a week, for the duration of Strategic Air Command’s alert
 commitment.)
 On several occasions in 1980 or ‘81, I overheard the B-52 alert
 facility manager at Seymour Johnson AFB, NC, mention that they were having
 a hard time keeping the grass around the facility cut because the blades
 kept coming off the mower.  At first, I didn’t pay any attention to these
 comments, because it wasn’t my business, and I was concerned about other
 stuff - B-52 mission stuff.
 One day, though, while I was at the alert facility to brief crews on
 an upcoming exercise, I overheard the alert manager mention that they were
 having to send the mower back to maintenance again because the blades had
 come off, it finally registered with me - if the blades were coming off,
 they must be turning backward and unscrewing the mounting nuts on the ends
 of the blade shafts.  I had seen the mower sitting in the grass by the
 building on my way in from the parking lot.
 Without saying anything else to anyone, I went outside to the mower
 and looked under it at a blade that was still attached.  Immediately, I
 could see that the backside (normally the trailing edge of the blade) was
 bright and shiny - the blades were, indeed, turning backward!  I noted that
 one could easily install the belt from the engine to the main blade drive
 pulley in a manner to make the blades turn the wrong direction - just put
 the belt on with a twist to turn the drive pulley the opposite direction
 from that intended.  Several days earlier, a mechanic had put a new belt on
 in a manner that turned the blades backward and had been doing so for quite
 some time.
 I went back in the building and asked the facilities manager to go
 outside to the mower with me for a couple of minutes.  He was glad to learn
 that the solution to the frustrating and long-running mower problem was so
 simple.


 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com

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 individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
 has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.

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[MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - MOVING IN THE BUFF

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Yep, another one already.

MOVING IN THE BUFF
By Wilton Strickland

Several weeks after I arrived here at Seymour Johnson AFB, NC, in March 
of ‘79, I learned that one of our crews was going to deliver a B-52G from 
our unit to Edwards AFB, CA, for a test crew there to fly a couple of times 
with Air Launched Cruise Missiles (ALCM‘s) during a weekend as part of the 
missile development program.  My wife and two sons were still living in the 
little mountain village of Wrightwood about 45 minutes southeast of Edwards. 
We had moved there while I was a civil engineer at George AFB and just 
before I went to Greenland for a year.  I wangled my way onto the flight to 
visit my family for a couple of days.
Alice picked me up at Edwards upon my arrival there on Friday afternoon 
and dropped me off there for the flight back to Seymour on Sunday afternoon. 
Because I was beginning to build a house here in North Carolina, I needed 
some of my tools and equipment from our home in California.  I brought 
several of those things back to NC with me in the BUFF:  a twelve-foot 
aluminum extension ladder, a six-foot wooden step ladder, a radial arm saw, 
a gas-driven rotary lawn mower (fuel tank was drained and vented), several 
boxes of assorted tools and lots of “stuff.”
 To take my stuff out to the airplane at Edwards, we loaded it and the 
rest of the crew’s baggage aboard an Air Force Chevrolet Suburban driven by 
the Edwards crew.  The long extension ladder was laid across the tops of the 
seats and the instrument panel (dashboard) for the short trip onto the 
flightline.  One end of the ladder was touching the windshield; the other 
end was protruding slightly from the rear of the vehicle.
   We warned all the guys on both crews, Edwards and ours, “Don’t close the 
rear doors.  You may break the windshield by shoving the ladder into it.”
   Sure enough, the last one of our crewmen to put his baggage on the 
vehicle tried to close the rear doors, cracking the windshield, of course. 
‘Don’t know how the Edwards crew explained the cracked windshield when they 
turned in the vehicle.
   All of this stuff went very easily into the large open area in the 
aircraft aft fuselage (“47 section“) behind the aft main gear.  All of it 
was strapped down very well and presented no problem at all for the BUFF.  I 
could have brought back a lot more, but I was a bit shy to appear to be 
moving my entire household in the BUFF.
We sold the California house a couple of months later, Alice and the 
boys drove to North Carolina to join me, and the rest of my stuff was moved 
in the conventional manner by van.



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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

That right there is why we beat the godless commies.  Well, at least the 
rooshan version.  I think Milt should re-enlist as Pootie is starting to 
become an annoyance again.


--R


On 11/21/14 1:11 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

SAC ALERT DINING -
BATTLE OF THE FRENCH FRIES
By Wilton Strickland

   The usual dining fare at Strategic Air Command (SAC) alert 
facilities was most often very good, possibly too good.  The dining 
room was set up as a small cafeteria, with a short list of choices on 
the serving line: for example, for breakfast; cereal, scrambled eggs, 
grits, sausage, bacon, ham; for lunch and/or dinner, steak, hot dogs, 
hamburgers, cheeseburgers, baked potatoes, French fries, carrots, 
beans, corn, etc.
   One day in 1974 at Kincheloe AFB, MI, because I had not had 
breakfast, I was first in line for lunch.  The airman/cook/server (his 
master sergeant supervisor leaning against the wall behind him 
watching and listening) on the serving line asked me what I would like 
to have.

   “A steak and French fries, please.”
   His reply, “Sir, you can’t have French fries with steak.”
   I asked, “Why not?”
   He replied, “Sir, if you want French fries, you’ll have to get a 
hamburger or a cheeseburger.  If you want potato with steak, you’ll 
have to get a baked potato - French fries go with hamburger or 
cheeseburger; baked potato goes with steak.”

   I told him, “I don’t want a baked potato, I want French fries.”
   He put my steak back and started to put a hamburger on my plate.  I 
reminded him that I had asked for a steak and, “I’m going to get some 
French fries with it.”
   He insisted, “The French fries go with the hamburger/cheeseburger; 
the baked potato goes with the steak.”
   Now, I began to lose my patience, “I’m a highly-trained 
professional whom Congress has entrusted with some of the nation’s 
topmost secrets.  Our commanders have confined me here on alert ready 
to launch at a moment’s notice and strike targets in the Soviet Union 
with nuclear weapons, and you’re telling me I’m forbidden to have 
French fries with my steak?  You put some French fries on that plate 
with a steak right NOW!”  (Never before nor since have I ordered an 
enlistee in such a manner, and am embarrassed to have done so.  I said 
it more so in protest of the dining facility’s policy and for the 
benefit of the master sergeant supervisor rather than so much to the 
young airman, who was merely following the sergeant’s instructions.)
   The server complied immediately, and I went on my way to enjoy the 
lunch of my choice.  Henceforth, all diners at the alert facility had 
their choice of fries or baked potato.
Many years later, after I had retired, I called a friend at The 
Pentagon who had witnessed the episode (in line behind me). He told me 
that the story of the “highly-trained professional who insisted on 
having French fries with his steak” was well known in the halls of 
that highest of US military headquarters.  He said that he had related 
the story to the SECDEF and the Chiefs of Staff, all of whom had a 
good laugh over it.
I would rather have been known there for having been an 
outstanding officer and warrior than to have been notorious for having 
won a silly battle over French fries, but we often have little control 
over what history records.


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING

[WILTON via Mercedes]

He's far from an annoyance - using 1930's Hitler tactics to expand his 
territory.  He figures, Dolphie got away with it (Munich, etc), why can't 
I?  So far, it's working as long as we merely wring our hands.


Uh-oh!  'Leaning toward political!  In trouble now.

Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2014 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING


That right there is why we beat the godless commies.  Well, at least the 
rooshan version.  I think Milt should re-enlist as Pootie is starting to 
become an annoyance again.


--R


On 11/21/14 1:11 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

SAC ALERT DINING -
BATTLE OF THE FRENCH FRIES
By Wilton Strickland

   The usual dining fare at Strategic Air Command (SAC) alert facilities 
was most often very good, possibly too good.  The dining room was set up 
as a small cafeteria, with a short list of choices on the serving line: 
for example, for breakfast; cereal, scrambled eggs, grits, sausage, 
bacon, ham; for lunch and/or dinner, steak, hot dogs, hamburgers, 
cheeseburgers, baked potatoes, French fries, carrots, beans, corn, etc.
   One day in 1974 at Kincheloe AFB, MI, because I had not had breakfast, 
I was first in line for lunch.  The airman/cook/server (his master 
sergeant supervisor leaning against the wall behind him watching and 
listening) on the serving line asked me what I would like to have.

   “A steak and French fries, please.”
   His reply, “Sir, you can’t have French fries with steak.”
   I asked, “Why not?”
   He replied, “Sir, if you want French fries, you’ll have to get a 
hamburger or a cheeseburger.  If you want potato with steak, you’ll have 
to get a baked potato - French fries go with hamburger or cheeseburger; 
baked potato goes with steak.”

   I told him, “I don’t want a baked potato, I want French fries.”
   He put my steak back and started to put a hamburger on my plate.  I 
reminded him that I had asked for a steak and, “I’m going to get some 
French fries with it.”
   He insisted, “The French fries go with the hamburger/cheeseburger; the 
baked potato goes with the steak.”
   Now, I began to lose my patience, “I’m a highly-trained professional 
whom Congress has entrusted with some of the nation’s topmost secrets. 
Our commanders have confined me here on alert ready to launch at a moment’s 
notice and strike targets in the Soviet Union with nuclear weapons, and 
you’re telling me I’m forbidden to have French fries with my steak?  You 
put some French fries on that plate with a steak right NOW!”  (Never 
before nor since have I ordered an enlistee in such a manner, and am 
embarrassed to have done so.  I said it more so in protest of the dining 
facility’s policy and for the benefit of the master sergeant supervisor 
rather than so much to the young airman, who was merely following the 
sergeant’s instructions.)
   The server complied immediately, and I went on my way to enjoy the 
lunch of my choice.  Henceforth, all diners at the alert facility had 
their choice of fries or baked potato.
Many years later, after I had retired, I called a friend at The 
Pentagon who had witnessed the episode (in line behind me). He told me 
that the story of the “highly-trained professional who insisted on having 
French fries with his steak” was well known in the halls of that highest 
of US military headquarters.  He said that he had related the story to 
the SECDEF and the Chiefs of Staff, all of whom had a good laugh over it.
I would rather have been known there for having been an outstanding 
officer and warrior than to have been notorious for having won a silly 
battle over French fries, but we often have little control over what 
history records.


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All posts

Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

I suspect the response is much more what do I do to stop someone who  
is obviously a lunatic and has a large stockpile of nuclear weapons he  
might well use.


No easy answers, like usual.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I can think of one easy answer: resume installing the defensive
anti-ballistic missile system that Bush started.  Putin hates that...

Max Dillon,
Charleston SC

On Nov 22, 2014 10:18 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 I suspect the response is much more what do I do to stop someone who is
obviously a lunatic and has a large stockpile of nuclear weapons he might
well use.

 No easy answers, like usual.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

R. Reagan figured out how to cage the bear.  It can be done again. 
It just takes someone with a spine.  Someone more spineless than 
jimmy Cahtah will be chased and/or eaten by the bear.





I can think of one easy answer: resume installing the defensive
anti-ballistic missile system that Bush started.  Putin hates that...

Max Dillon,
Charleston SC

On Nov 22, 2014 10:18 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


 I suspect the response is much more what do I do to stop someone who is

obviously a lunatic and has a large stockpile of nuclear weapons he might
well use.



  No easy answers, like usual.


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[MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING

[WILTON via Mercedes]

SAC ALERT DINING -
BATTLE OF THE FRENCH FRIES
By Wilton Strickland

   The usual dining fare at Strategic Air Command (SAC) alert facilities 
was most often very good, possibly too good.  The dining room was set up as 
a small cafeteria, with a short list of choices on the serving line: for 
example, for breakfast; cereal, scrambled eggs, grits, sausage, bacon, ham; 
for lunch and/or dinner, steak, hot dogs, hamburgers, cheeseburgers, baked 
potatoes, French fries, carrots, beans, corn, etc.
   One day in 1974 at Kincheloe AFB, MI, because I had not had breakfast, I 
was first in line for lunch.  The airman/cook/server (his master sergeant 
supervisor leaning against the wall behind him watching and listening) on 
the serving line asked me what I would like to have.

   “A steak and French fries, please.”
   His reply, “Sir, you can’t have French fries with steak.”
   I asked, “Why not?”
   He replied, “Sir, if you want French fries, you’ll have to get a 
hamburger or a cheeseburger.  If you want potato with steak, you’ll have to 
get a baked potato - French fries go with hamburger or cheeseburger; baked 
potato goes with steak.”

   I told him, “I don’t want a baked potato, I want French fries.”
   He put my steak back and started to put a hamburger on my plate.  I 
reminded him that I had asked for a steak and, “I’m going to get some French 
fries with it.”
   He insisted, “The French fries go with the hamburger/cheeseburger; the 
baked potato goes with the steak.”
   Now, I began to lose my patience, “I’m a highly-trained professional 
whom Congress has entrusted with some of the nation’s topmost secrets.  Our 
commanders have confined me here on alert ready to launch at a moment’s 
notice and strike targets in the Soviet Union with nuclear weapons, and you’re 
telling me I’m forbidden to have French fries with my steak?  You put some 
French fries on that plate with a steak right NOW!”  (Never before nor since 
have I ordered an enlistee in such a manner, and am embarrassed to have done 
so.  I said it more so in protest of the dining facility’s policy and for 
the benefit of the master sergeant supervisor rather than so much to the 
young airman, who was merely following the sergeant’s instructions.)
   The server complied immediately, and I went on my way to enjoy the lunch 
of my choice.  Henceforth, all diners at the alert facility had their choice 
of fries or baked potato.
Many years later, after I had retired, I called a friend at The 
Pentagon who had witnessed the episode (in line behind me).  He told me that 
the story of the “highly-trained professional who insisted on having French 
fries with his steak” was well known in the halls of that highest of US 
military headquarters.  He said that he had related the story to the SECDEF 
and the Chiefs of Staff, all of whom had a good laugh over it.
I would rather have been known there for having been an outstanding 
officer and warrior than to have been notorious for having won a silly 
battle over French fries, but we often have little control over what history 
records. 



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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Which reminds me of 2 things.
#1. Angie is making beef stew for dinner and I'd like to have a baked potato 
with it, fortunately we have many potatoes, I brought around 30# back from camp 
with me.
and
#2. While we were at camp with a 50# bag of potatoes we decided to make french 
fries with lard. Boy howdy how lard provides flavor to french fries. Its also 
very very easy to make fries in lard, easier than vegetable oil actually 
although I'm not sure I understand why...
-Curt
  From: WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com; WILTON 
wilt...@nc.rr.com 
 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 1:11 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING
   
SAC ALERT DINING -
BATTLE OF THE FRENCH FRIES
By Wilton Strickland

   
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Which reminds me of 2 things.
#1. Angie is making beef stew for dinner and I'd like to have a 
baked potato with it, fortunately we have many potatoes, I brought 
around 30# back from camp with me.

and
#2. While we were at camp with a 50# bag of potatoes we decided to 
make french fries with lard. Boy howdy how lard provides flavor to 
french fries. Its also very very easy to make fries in lard, easier 
than vegetable oil actually although I'm not sure I understand why...

-Curt

#2:  Yes sir!  Why do you think MickeyD fought for so long to use 
lard?   I can also tell you that there is no good tortilla made 
without home rendered lard, not the plasticized store stuff.   It 
makes an amazing difference.


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

Vivan was going on about lard a coupla shows ago.  My grandmother used 
lard in everything, biscuits, cornbread, frying, pie dough, cooking, 
burns, and just about everything else.  Nothing is better.


--R


On 11/21/14 1:47 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote:

Which reminds me of 2 things.
#1. Angie is making beef stew for dinner and I'd like to have a baked 
potato with it, fortunately we have many potatoes, I brought around 
30# back from camp with me.

and
#2. While we were at camp with a 50# bag of potatoes we decided to 
make french fries with lard. Boy howdy how lard provides flavor to 
french fries. Its also very very easy to make fries in lard, easier 
than vegetable oil actually although I'm not sure I understand why...

-Curt

#2:  Yes sir!  Why do you think MickeyD fought for so long to use 
lard?   I can also tell you that there is no good tortilla made 
without home rendered lard, not the plasticized store stuff.   It 
makes an amazing difference.


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 21/11/2014 12:11 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

SAC ALERT DINING -
BATTLE OF THE FRENCH FRIES
By Wilton Strickland

Many years later, after I had retired, I called a friend at The 
Pentagon who had witnessed the episode (in line behind me). He told me 
that the story of the “highly-trained professional who insisted on 
having French fries with his steak” was well known in the halls of 
that highest of US military headquarters.  He said that he had related 
the story to the SECDEF and the Chiefs of Staff, all of whom had a 
good laugh over it.
I would rather have been known there for having been an 
outstanding officer and warrior than to have been notorious for having 
won a silly battle over French fries, but we often have little control 
over what history records.


___


I should think, that the folks high up at the Pentagon were in total 
agreement with you and enjoyed hearing the tale of how you stood up for 
your yourself and essentially defeated a petty rule.

Obviously evidence of your training and fitness to command.

Good Job!

RB

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING

[WILTON via Mercedes]

   Which reminds me:  Mama always made some mighty fine buttermilk 
biscuits.  One afternoon a few months before she died at 99 years and 3 
months in April of '96, I visited her for a couple of hours.  During that 
time, I asked her to tell me the details, step-by-step, how she made 
biscuits.
   She replied, Well, you get your breadboard (a scooped-out, elongated, 
wooden bowl that Daddy made for her soon after they married in 1915), and 
you put some flour in it and push the flour out from the center to make a 
low place where you start pouring the buttermilk and start mixing.  You pour 
some buttermilk (use water if you don't have buttermilk,  but it's a lot 
better with buttermilk) in the low place in the middle of the flour.  Then 
start mixing the buttermilk and the flour with your fingers.  As you get a 
little bit mixed, swirl it around a little bit and pull in a little more 
flour.  Soon after you get the mixing going, reach into the lard pail and 
get a pinch of lard and add it to the mixture.
   This was the point I was waiting for and interjected, with laughter, A 
pinch, Hell, Mama, it was a hand full!
   Then she jumped me, Where did you learn to cuss like that?  You didn't 
learn to talk like that around here!
   I retorted, again, with laughter, Well, I'll be damned, Mama, all I 
said was 'Hell.'

   She continued, Well, there's no need to cuss like that.
   I continued, Yes, I know, Mama, I was just testing you - wondering if 
you were still as feisty about that as always.  I was just kidding.  But I 
think you'll have to agree that the lard in the biscuits was a little more 
than a pinch.

   She agreed, Yes, that and the buttermilk are what made 'em so good.
   We had a good laugh and hugged enthusiastically.


- Original Message - 
From: Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com

Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING



Which reminds me of 2 things.
#1. Angie is making beef stew for dinner and I'd like to have a baked 
potato with it, fortunately we have many potatoes, I brought around 30# 
back from camp with me.

and
#2. While we were at camp with a 50# bag of potatoes we decided to make 
french fries with lard. Boy howdy how lard provides flavor to french 
fries. Its also very very easy to make fries in lard, easier than 
vegetable oil actually although I'm not sure I understand why...

-Curt

#2:  Yes sir!  Why do you think MickeyD fought for so long to use lard? 
I can also tell you that there is no good tortilla made without home 
rendered lard, not the plasticized store stuff.   It makes an amazing 
difference.


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

ATTABOY  +1 for Randy's comment.  Obviously evidence of your 
training and fitness to command.



SAC ALERT DINING -
BATTLE OF THE FRENCH FRIES
By Wilton Strickland

   The usual dining fare at Strategic Air Command (SAC) alert 
facilities was most often very good, possibly too good.  The dining 
room was set up as a small cafeteria, with a short list of choices 
on the serving line: for example, for breakfast; cereal, scrambled 
eggs, grits, sausage, bacon, ham; for lunch and/or dinner, steak, 
hot dogs, hamburgers, cheeseburgers, baked potatoes, French fries, 
carrots, beans, corn, etc.
   One day in 1974 at Kincheloe AFB, MI, because I had not had 
breakfast, I was first in line for lunch.  The airman/cook/server 
(his master sergeant supervisor leaning against the wall behind him 
watching and listening) on the serving line asked me what I would 
like to have.

   A steak and French fries, please.
   His reply, Sir, you can't have French fries with steak.
   I asked, Why not?
   He replied, Sir, if you want French fries, you'll have to get a 
hamburger or a cheeseburger.  If you want potato with steak, you'll 
have to get a baked potato - French fries go with hamburger or 
cheeseburger; baked potato goes with steak.

   I told him, I don't want a baked potato, I want French fries.
   He put my steak back and started to put a hamburger on my plate. 
I reminded him that I had asked for a steak and, I'm going to get 
some French fries with it.
   He insisted, The French fries go with the 
hamburger/cheeseburger; the baked potato goes with the steak.
   Now, I began to lose my patience, I'm a highly-trained 
professional whom Congress has entrusted with some of the nation's 
topmost secrets.  Our commanders have confined me here on alert 
ready to launch at a moment's notice and strike targets in the 
Soviet Union with nuclear weapons, and you're telling me I'm 
forbidden to have French fries with my steak?  You put some French 
fries on that plate with a steak right NOW!  (Never before nor 
since have I ordered an enlistee in such a manner, and am 
embarrassed to have done so.  I said it more so in protest of the 
dining facility's policy and for the benefit of the master sergeant 
supervisor rather than so much to the young airman, who was merely 
following the sergeant's instructions.)
   The server complied immediately, and I went on my way to enjoy 
the lunch of my choice.  Henceforth, all diners at the alert 
facility had their choice of fries or baked potato.
Many years later, after I had retired, I called a friend at The 
Pentagon who had witnessed the episode (in line behind me).  He told 
me that the story of the highly-trained professional who insisted 
on having French fries with his steak was well known in the halls 
of that highest of US military headquarters.  He said that he had 
related the story to the SECDEF and the Chiefs of Staff, all of whom 
had a good laugh over it.
I would rather have been known there for having been an 
outstanding officer and warrior than to have been notorious for 
having won a silly battle over French fries, but we often have 
little control over what history records.


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - SAC ALERT DINING

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Oh!  I forgot about pie dough.  We actually tried to make a better 
dough with lard, and ended up using butter flavor crisco.  BUT (a big 
one)  the lard we used was store plasticized lard.  It is not much 
different than the vein pluggin crisco.  I suspect if I were to 
repeat the trials with real home rendered lard (that will spoil) the 
results would be different.


The store lard is hydrogenated  the same as crisco so it won't spoil. 
Anything that does not spoil is not really food, and is not good for 
you.  Margarine, shortening, store lard, McD hamburger etc.



Vivan was going on about lard a coupla shows ago.  My grandmother 
used lard in everything, biscuits, cornbread, frying, pie dough, 
cooking, burns, and just about everything else.  Nothing is better.


--R


On 11/21/14 1:47 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote:

Which reminds me of 2 things.
#1. Angie is making beef stew for dinner and I'd like to have a 
baked potato with it, fortunately we have many potatoes, I brought 
around 30# back from camp with me.

and
#2. While we were at camp with a 50# bag of potatoes we decided to 
make french fries with lard. Boy howdy how lard provides flavor to 
french fries. Its also very very easy to make fries in lard, 
easier than vegetable oil actually although I'm not sure I 
understand why...

-Curt

#2:  Yes sir!  Why do you think MickeyD fought for so long to use 
lard?   I can also tell you that there is no good tortilla made 
without home rendered lard, not the plasticized store stuff.   It 
makes an amazing difference.


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[MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FLIGHT LUNCHES RELIEF

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Yep, another one; sorta silly, but here it is.

FLIGHT LUNCHES  RELIEF
By Wilton Strickland

I'm occasionally asked about what we had to eat on long flights in the 
BUFF.  For most flights, i. e., 8 to 14 or 16 hours or so, we had flight 
lunches (box lunches) in a small cardboard box much like a shoe box but a 
bit shorter.  This lunch was prepared by the Flight Kitchen, part of a 
dining hall on base, and usually included a couple of sandwiches of one's 
choice - ham, ham  cheese, roast beef, pimento cheese, turkey, etc. - fried 
chicken, small cups of juice and milk, apple sauce or fruit cocktail, small 
candy bar, cookies, stick of gum, an apple or orange, small packets of 
mayonnaise, mustard and ketchup, a small packet of cheese spread and 
crackers, a handy-wipe, a napkin and possibly other small items I can't 
remember.  I would usually eat one or both of my sandwiches and take the 
rest of the box home to the children when they were very young.  My 
57-year-old daughter recently mentioned to me how she used to enjoy the 
little stuff in the flight lunch boxes.
   On really long flights of 24 hours or more, many of us would get two box 
lunches plus a frozen dinner or steak such as filet mignon.  We easily 
heated these frozen items in a small, portable oven that plugs into a 
special receptacle for it.  Some crew members also like hot soup.  This is 
heated in an electric cup that also plugs into its special receptacle.  We 
also often had ice cream on the long flights.  The ice cream and other 
frozen items were kept in a well insulated, portable cooler.
   We always had ice water and coffee, but the non-coffee drinkers like me 
usually carried a drink of choice - mine was Pepsi, though carbonated 
beverages were officially discouraged.  The water and coffee were also 
supplied by the Flight Kitchen and kept cold or hot in large, stainless 
steel thermos jugs with a spout on the side near the bottom, much like 
those we often see on construction sites.
   The crew gunner was usually in charge of ordering and picking up the 
lunches.  On mission planning day, each crew member would place his lunch 
order with the gunner.  The gunner would consolidate the order and relay it 
to the flight kitchen.  A couple of hours before takeoff time and before 
joining the rest of the crew at the squadron operations center, where we 
would all board a bus for the short trip to base operations for a weather 
briefing and out to the airplane, the gunner would pick up the lunches, the 
coffee and water jugs, cups, etc.
   Each crewman paid a nominal fee for his flight lunch, of course.  I 
vaguely remember about $1.35 in the '70's.  Enlisted crewmen paid about 
$.90.  I'm sure inflation has run the cost significantly higher by now.
   Some BUFF pilots occasionally have an additional in-flight snack, 
usually compliments of a fun-loving navigator or radar navigator/bombardier. 
A banana lying in the pilot's seat at the beginning of his pre-fight 
inspection is a subtle implication by the navigator that a monkey can learn 
to fly - when the nose goes down, pull it up; when it goes up, push it down; 
when the airplane leans (banks) to the right, turn the wheel to the left, 
etc.  This is also a reminder of an underlying belief by many/most 
navigators that significant, additional intelligence, though, is required to 
master the intricacies of navigation, bombing, electronic warfare, etc. 
'Don't know of a recipient ever refusing the banana.  (This is merely 
another example of the nearly constant, good-natured ribbing between crewmen 
and indicates good morale and high esprit de corps.)
   I'm also occasionally asked how one relieves himself in the BUFF.  In a 
rear corner of the navigation compartment on the lower deck is a urinal, a 
white cylindrical, metal can about 2½ feet tall and 8 inches in diameter. 
The can has a lid that's on a slope of about 45° and facing toward the 
inside of the airplane.  Immediately beneath this lid inside the can is 
another, funnel-like top with a small hole in the bottom.  One stands close 
to the can, lifts the lid and urinates into the funnel, which directs the 
urine into the can below.  The maintenance crew chief empties and cleans 
this can.  (During my time in the BUFF, there were no females on  combat 
crews, so I'm not sure how they handle this situation now, but they likely 
use the can/bucket described below.)
   The urinal is sometimes a point of nervous apprehension for some 
crewmen.  Soon after the victim has assumed the position at the urinal, a 
playful radar navigator or navigator, who, with a glance to the side, can 
see the victim's back via the corner of his eye or reflected in an 
instrument's face plate, says on the intercom, Now, Pilot/Co-pilot, 
(depending who's at the controls).  Pilot/Co-pilot gives a rudder pedal a 
light kick, making the airplane shudder slightly and causing the victim to 
lose his concentration.
   For a more serious emergency - 

[MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICKDEPARTURE

[WILTON via Mercedes]

BTW, I made a nice-looking pots/pans rack of copper 3/4 plumbing pipe above 
a central, kitchen island in the house I built in '79.


Wilton

Not yet so exotic -- lighting for the new kitchen -- but you are giving me 
ideas


--R


On 11/2/14 4:38 PM, WILTON wrote:

Bend copper?  So you're makin' stills, now, for the moonshiners?   ;)

Wilton



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[MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - PERSPECTIVE

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Yep, another one already.

PERSPECTIVE
By Wilton Strickland

On the same morning in mid-January '73, when I returned to normal 
duties in my B-52H unit at Kincheloe AFB, MI, after flying bombing missions 
in B-52D's from Guam and Thailand, an inspection team initiated an 
Operational Readiness Inspection (ORI) of the unit.
At some time that morning, I was standing in the hallway of our 
operations building chatting with friends about the joys of being safely 
back at home after dodging SAMs over Hanoi, when our wing commander, Col. 
Bob Herres, approached and said to me, Wilt, we may have to ask you to fly 
the ORI mission.  Do you think you can handle it?
   (A bit of digression is necessary.  Normally, B-52 crewmembers would 
study the ORI mission in great detail for weeks in preparation for one of a 
Strategic Air Command (SAC) unit's most important events - to fly an ORI 
mission, a simulated emergency, nuclear war order mission, including air 
refueling, celestial navigation, air-to-ground missile (with nuclear 
warhead) programming and simulated launch, low level navigation and 
simulated nuclear bombing on a route and bomb scoring sites never seen 
before by the crews.  Every aspect of a unit, including administration, 
maintenance, supply, ground transportation, security, civil engineering, 
weapons loading, records, flight operations, tactical doctrine, control and 
employment of nuclear weapons, medical, - everything- was graded by an 
inspection team from higher headquarters to determine its readiness to go to 
war.  After extensive study and preparation for the ORI mission, crews would 
present a detailed briefing on the mission to the wing commander or his 
senior representative who usually questioned the crewmen on certain details 
to determine his readiness to fly the mission.  Only then would the 
crewman be certified.  There was a different ORI mission and low level 
navigation route each new six-month training period - 1 Jan through 30 Jun 
and 1 July through 31 Dec.  Because of the limited number of inspection 
teams, some units would be inspected early during a training period, and 
others would be inspected late in the period - selected on a rotating basis 
at random by the inspectors.  Until a unit was hit by the inspection, air 
crewmen had to re-study the mission periodically.  Once a week, a crew would 
be selected at random to brief the wing commander or his senior 
representative again.  This time, though, I had just returned to duty in the 
H model aircraft and did not know anything about the specific details of 
this particular ORI mission that may have been different from the usual.)
   I replied to The Colonel, It's quite ironic that just a few days ago, I 
was wishing for a good, tough ORI mission to fly.  How many SAM sites are on 
that route?

   He assured me there were none.
   I assured him that I could certainly handle it, then.  From the 
perspective of the Linebacker II missions I was flying just a few days ago, 
a really tough ORI, simulated war mission should be quite enjoyable.  Just 
give me the usual pre-mission briefings, and I'll be ready to fly it with 
pleasure.
   Thusly, the CO certified me standing there in the hall - neither he 
nor I mentioned any detail about the mission.
   So, yes, I flew the mission.  'Even played a couple of excerpts from my 
Patton tape (George C. Scott as Patton) over the inter-plane radio while 
taxiing to takeoff and during the flight, such as, I'd be proud to lead you 
wonderful guys into battle anytime, anywhere.
   Another excerpt, Some of you boys I know are wondering whether or not 
you'll chicken out under fire.  Don't worry about it.  I can assure you that 
you will all do your duty.
As we were shutting down engines and equipment after landing, Colonel 
Herres rushed aboard the aircraft, stuck his head up beside me and said, 
Wilt, I'll have to confiscate your tape.

I replied, What tape?
He said, You know what tape.
Then, as he started laughing, When the first Patton comment came on 
the radio, I nearly had a heart attack until the Inspector General (IG) in 
the car with me started laughing and talking about how the comments were 
such good morale boosters and an indication of the unit's high esprit de 
corps.
The Colonel had been concerned that such comments on the radio during 
such a critical phase of the unit's inspection may have been viewed as a 
lack of professionalism and discipline. As he was backing down the entrance 
ladder, he yelled to me, A masterful stroke, Wilt!  ATTABOY!
BTW, the unit got an Outstanding on the inspection - not because of 
my Patton tape, of course, but 'cause the entire unit really did very well.
There were many other good reasons, of course, but the unit's 
outstanding performance likely contributed significantly to The Colonel's 
promotion to B/G a few months later and a few years after that, promotion to 
General and an appointment as the first 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - PERSPECTIVE

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Yep, another one already.

PERSPECTIVE
By Wilton Strickland


Thank you again!   Attaboy indeed!


If every American thoroughly studied Patton, Churchill and and TR, up 
to the end of his first term, there are enough lessons there to 
sustain themselves and the country.


Patton:  Rommel, you magnificent bast___, I read YOUR BOOK!  Know your enemy.
Always be prepared, Always move, always on the offensive.
Be there first with the most!  I love the part of the Patton movie 
when Montie arrives in Salerno in triumph, only to find Gearge Patton 
is already there to greet him with an American military band.


Churchill, war, politics, and never give in

TR:  war, politics and never give in

Grant's effort to capture Vicksburg and the Founders are good lessons too.



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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - PERSPECTIVE

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 18:29:32 -0500 WILTON via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  The Colonel had been concerned that such comments on the radio
 during such a critical phase of the unit's inspection may have been
 viewed as a lack of professionalism and discipline. As he was backing
 down the entrance ladder, he yelled to me, A masterful stroke, Wilt!
 ATTABOY! BTW, the unit got an Outstanding on the inspection - not
 because of my Patton tape, of course, but 'cause the entire unit really
 did very well.

Indeed, ATTABOY!


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 10:16:50 -0700 G Mann via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


 Infidel:  Translates from Arabic to the meaning non believer.. ie. one
 who does not accept Islam or Muhammed or has as a Muslim, has rejected
 Islam

 Arabic meaning of the word is what counts. As an infidel, you are sub
 human and thus worthy of death to cleanse the earth for the master
 religion.


What he said.

Craig


And your dogs and your bacon and your pork chops and...

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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Infidel:  Translates from Arabic to the meaning non believer.. ie. one
who does not accept Islam or Muhammed or has as a Muslim, has rejected Islam

Arabic meaning of the word is what counts. As an infidel, you are sub human

and thus worthy of death to cleanse the earth for the master religion.

Sounds strangely familiar...  was something similar ever said before?





oh yeah, when the word was race, they had to be eliminated.  when the 
word is religion we must coddle it.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICKDEPARTURE

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

Not yet so exotic -- lighting for the new kitchen -- but you are giving 
me ideas


--R


On 11/2/14 4:38 PM, WILTON wrote:

Bend copper?  So you're makin' stills, now, for the moonshiners?   ;)

Wilton 



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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Remember, it is considered OK to lie to an infidel.


Pretty sure that term does not apply to Christians or Jews.
In fact, examining latin roots makes me think that term only
applies to those who converted in order not to die, but not
for real.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:

Remember, it is considered OK to lie to an infidel.


Pretty sure that term does not apply to Christians or Jews.
In fact, examining latin roots makes me think that term only
applies to those who converted in order not to die, but not
for real.


I know somebody who used to be married to a Shi'ite from Lebanon. He told men in 
her family that his religion encouraged lying to infidel Christians like them.

That's just the standard cultural view where he grew up.

Mitch.

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[MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - PACIFIC CROSSING

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Yep, another one already.

PACIFIC  CROSSING
By Wilton Strickland

   Immediately after takeoff from Guam en route to Wichita, KS, on Jan 2, '73, 
we had a problem getting part of the landing gear up.  As we continued to 
climb on a northeasterly heading, we talked to Boeing tech reps and the 
command post back on Guam while trying several times to recycle the gear. 
If we could not get the gear up, we would have to return to Guam and try 
again another day.  Finally, after about an hour fiddling with the gear 
switches and circuit breakers, the gear finally went up and locked, and we 
were on our way - we would not be turning back.
   Surely, on this B-52D, eastbound across the Pacific Ocean, must have 
been the luckiest and happiest crew ever.  What we had been through the last 
several days over the Hanoi area of N. Vietnam was absolutely incredible and 
hard to believe.  Being split up the way we had been for the Linebacker II 
missions, our crew of five (the gunner had gone home in early Dec) had been 
involved in a total of 28 of the 741 B-52 sorties to Hanoi as individual 
substitute crewmembers with other crews, and, suddenly now, we were all 
safely back together and headed home on the same airplane.  Of the 90 
crewmen on the fifteen BUFFs lost in the campaign, 30 were killed, 30 were 
rescued immediately and 30 had been taken prisoner and would be repatriated 
in March.  We felt extremely fortunate to have been spared.
After several hours in flight, we refueled northeast of Hawaii and 
continued eastbound for several more boring but exhilarating hours. 
Daylight had ended very quickly after takeoff from Guam and the night was 
also very short, as we rushed eastward toward the approaching, morning sun 
at a combined closing speed of about 1400 MPH.  Finally the coast of 
California was ahead, and I altered the heading slightly to track just south 
of the planned route to get a good look at the Golden Gate Bridge, San 
Francisco, Oakland and the entire bay area below us in the bright sun and to 
enter the country directly through the Golden Gate (symbolically, anyway, 
at 37,000 feet) - a fantastically beautiful sight!  At the same time, I felt 
great sadness for those we left behind who would never have such an 
opportunity and view.
   We continued on to Wichita, arriving there in early afternoon at the end 
of a nearly 14-hour flight.  We unloaded our baggage and cargo, including 3 
boxes containing parts of my motorcycle (a tanker crewman from Kincheloe had 
taken one of the motorcycle boxes on 23 Dec) and microwave oven, from a rack 
mounted in the bomb bay, turned the bomber over to Boeing representatives, 
said my final goodbye to D model BUFFs, and went to base operations to await 
a KC-135 tanker from Kincheloe to take us home.
   In an hour or so we were on the tanker and headed north; we opened our 
bags, dug out and donned winter underwear and jackets that we needed 
immediately upon landing in the depths of winter on the Michigan Upper 
Peninsula - a shocking change from the balmy, summer-like sun of Guam and 
Thailand we had just departed.
   Our wives and children, wing commander  several other senior officers 
were out on the ramp to greet us.  It took a while to transfer our stuff to 
our personal vehicles, but soon I was at home trying to catch up on things 
missed - several months with the family and Christmas.
   We finally went to bed about 4 AM.  Less than an hour later, I had a 
dream (or nightmare) that I was in bed with some strange woman.  I had 
raised up and was staring intently at the woman's face trying to figure out 
who it was and alarmed at what I had done when Alice awoke with a startled 
Oooh! awakening me.  A few more very confused seconds passed before I 
realized where I was, and very relieved to find that the strange woman was 
Alice, my wife since Feb '57.
It took several months to get over the shock and intensity of the 
Linebacker II missions and suddenly being safely at home.  I still am unable 
to completely understand how so many others could have been lost all around 
me and to be spared myself.
   That spring, I finally opened the reassembled motorcycle boxes and was 
lucky enough to find enough parts to put together a complete and proper 
Honda Trail 90 motorcycle, that I had bought in late August for $180 at 
Yokota, Japan, during a 5-day break from flying B-52 missions out of Guam. 
My sons and I enjoyed it for several years.



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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - PACIFIC CROSSING

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

All I can say is Wilton is a bad ass. Sorry, it just needed to be said.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 3, 2014, at 10:00 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 Yep, another one already.
 
 PACIFIC  CROSSING
 By Wilton Strickland
 
   Immediately after takeoff from Guam en route to Wichita, KS, on Jan 2, '73, 
 we had a problem getting part of the landing gear up.  As we continued to 
 climb on a northeasterly heading, we talked to Boeing tech reps and the 
 command post back on Guam while trying several times to recycle the gear. If 
 we could not get the gear up, we would have to return to Guam and try again 
 another day.  Finally, after about an hour fiddling with the gear switches 
 and circuit breakers, the gear finally went up and locked, and we were on our 
 way - we would not be turning back.
   Surely, on this B-52D, eastbound across the Pacific Ocean, must have been 
 the luckiest and happiest crew ever.  What we had been through the last 
 several days over the Hanoi area of N. Vietnam was absolutely incredible and 
 hard to believe.  Being split up the way we had been for the Linebacker II 
 missions, our crew of five (the gunner had gone home in early Dec) had been 
 involved in a total of 28 of the 741 B-52 sorties to Hanoi as individual 
 substitute crewmembers with other crews, and, suddenly now, we were all 
 safely back together and headed home on the same airplane.  Of the 90 crewmen 
 on the fifteen BUFFs lost in the campaign, 30 were killed, 30 were rescued 
 immediately and 30 had been taken prisoner and would be repatriated in March. 
  We felt extremely fortunate to have been spared.
After several hours in flight, we refueled northeast of Hawaii and 
 continued eastbound for several more boring but exhilarating hours. Daylight 
 had ended very quickly after takeoff from Guam and the night was also very 
 short, as we rushed eastward toward the approaching, morning sun at a 
 combined closing speed of about 1400 MPH.  Finally the coast of California 
 was ahead, and I altered the heading slightly to track just south of the 
 planned route to get a good look at the Golden Gate Bridge, San Francisco, 
 Oakland and the entire bay area below us in the bright sun and to enter the 
 country directly through the Golden Gate (symbolically, anyway, at 37,000 
 feet) - a fantastically beautiful sight!  At the same time, I felt great 
 sadness for those we left behind who would never have such an opportunity and 
 view.
   We continued on to Wichita, arriving there in early afternoon at the end of 
 a nearly 14-hour flight.  We unloaded our baggage and cargo, including 3 
 boxes containing parts of my motorcycle (a tanker crewman from Kincheloe had 
 taken one of the motorcycle boxes on 23 Dec) and microwave oven, from a rack 
 mounted in the bomb bay, turned the bomber over to Boeing representatives, 
 said my final goodbye to D model BUFFs, and went to base operations to await 
 a KC-135 tanker from Kincheloe to take us home.
   In an hour or so we were on the tanker and headed north; we opened our 
 bags, dug out and donned winter underwear and jackets that we needed 
 immediately upon landing in the depths of winter on the Michigan Upper 
 Peninsula - a shocking change from the balmy, summer-like sun of Guam and 
 Thailand we had just departed.
   Our wives and children, wing commander  several other senior officers were 
 out on the ramp to greet us.  It took a while to transfer our stuff to our 
 personal vehicles, but soon I was at home trying to catch up on things missed 
 - several months with the family and Christmas.
   We finally went to bed about 4 AM.  Less than an hour later, I had a dream 
 (or nightmare) that I was in bed with some strange woman.  I had raised up 
 and was staring intently at the woman's face trying to figure out who it was 
 and alarmed at what I had done when Alice awoke with a startled Oooh! 
 awakening me.  A few more very confused seconds passed before I realized 
 where I was, and very relieved to find that the strange woman was Alice, my 
 wife since Feb '57.
It took several months to get over the shock and intensity of the 
 Linebacker II missions and suddenly being safely at home.  I still am unable 
 to completely understand how so many others could have been lost all around 
 me and to be spared myself.
   That spring, I finally opened the reassembled motorcycle boxes and was 
 lucky enough to find enough parts to put together a complete and proper Honda 
 Trail 90 motorcycle, that I had bought in late August for $180 at Yokota, 
 Japan, during a 5-day break from flying B-52 missions out of Guam. My sons 
 and I enjoyed it for several years.
 
 
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 All posts are the result of 

Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Infidel:  Translates from Arabic to the meaning non believer.. ie. one
who does not accept Islam or Muhammed or has as a Muslim, has rejected Islam

Arabic meaning of the word is what counts. As an infidel, you are sub human
and thus worthy of death to cleanse the earth for the master religion.



On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Remember, it is considered OK to lie to an infidel.


 Pretty sure that term does not apply to Christians or Jews.
 In fact, examining latin roots makes me think that term only
 applies to those who converted in order not to die, but not
 for real.

 -- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 10:16:50 -0700 G Mann via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Infidel:  Translates from Arabic to the meaning non believer.. ie. one
 who does not accept Islam or Muhammed or has as a Muslim, has rejected
 Islam
 
 Arabic meaning of the word is what counts. As an infidel, you are sub
 human and thus worthy of death to cleanse the earth for the master
 religion.

What he said.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - PACIFIC CROSSING

[WILTON via Mercedes]

'Never thought myself as such - in fact, probably quite the contrary, but 
I'll take it as a compliment, anyway.  Thanks.   ;)


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - PACIFIC CROSSING



All I can say is Wilton is a bad ass. Sorry, it just needed to be said.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 3, 2014, at 10:00 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
wrote:


Yep, another one already.

PACIFIC  CROSSING
By Wilton Strickland

  Immediately after takeoff from Guam en route to Wichita, KS, on Jan 2, 
'73, we had a problem getting part of the landing gear up.  As we 
continued to climb on a northeasterly heading, we talked to Boeing tech 
reps and the command post back on Guam while trying several times to 
recycle the gear. If we could not get the gear up, we would have to 
return to Guam and try again another day.  Finally, after about an hour 
fiddling with the gear switches and circuit breakers, the gear finally 
went up and locked, and we were on our way - we would not be turning 
back.
  Surely, on this B-52D, eastbound across the Pacific Ocean, must have 
been the luckiest and happiest crew ever.  What we had been through the 
last several days over the Hanoi area of N. Vietnam was absolutely 
incredible and hard to believe.  Being split up the way we had been for 
the Linebacker II missions, our crew of five (the gunner had gone home in 
early Dec) had been involved in a total of 28 of the 741 B-52 sorties to 
Hanoi as individual substitute crewmembers with other crews, and, 
suddenly now, we were all safely back together and headed home on the 
same airplane.  Of the 90 crewmen on the fifteen BUFFs lost in the 
campaign, 30 were killed, 30 were rescued immediately and 30 had been 
taken prisoner and would be repatriated in March.  We felt extremely 
fortunate to have been spared.
   After several hours in flight, we refueled northeast of Hawaii and 
continued eastbound for several more boring but exhilarating hours. 
Daylight had ended very quickly after takeoff from Guam and the night was 
also very short, as we rushed eastward toward the approaching, morning 
sun at a combined closing speed of about 1400 MPH.  Finally the coast of 
California was ahead, and I altered the heading slightly to track just 
south of the planned route to get a good look at the Golden Gate Bridge, 
San Francisco, Oakland and the entire bay area below us in the bright sun 
and to enter the country directly through the Golden Gate 
(symbolically, anyway, at 37,000 feet) - a fantastically beautiful sight! 
At the same time, I felt great sadness for those we left behind who would 
never have such an opportunity and view.
  We continued on to Wichita, arriving there in early afternoon at the 
end of a nearly 14-hour flight.  We unloaded our baggage and cargo, 
including 3 boxes containing parts of my motorcycle (a tanker crewman 
from Kincheloe had taken one of the motorcycle boxes on 23 Dec) and 
microwave oven, from a rack mounted in the bomb bay, turned the bomber 
over to Boeing representatives, said my final goodbye to D model BUFFs, 
and went to base operations to await a KC-135 tanker from Kincheloe to 
take us home.
  In an hour or so we were on the tanker and headed north; we opened our 
bags, dug out and donned winter underwear and jackets that we needed 
immediately upon landing in the depths of winter on the Michigan Upper 
Peninsula - a shocking change from the balmy, summer-like sun of Guam and 
Thailand we had just departed.
  Our wives and children, wing commander  several other senior officers 
were out on the ramp to greet us.  It took a while to transfer our stuff 
to our personal vehicles, but soon I was at home trying to catch up on 
things missed - several months with the family and Christmas.
  We finally went to bed about 4 AM.  Less than an hour later, I had a 
dream (or nightmare) that I was in bed with some strange woman.  I had 
raised up and was staring intently at the woman's face trying to figure 
out who it was and alarmed at what I had done when Alice awoke with a 
startled Oooh! awakening me.  A few more very confused seconds passed 
before I realized where I was, and very relieved to find that the 
strange woman was Alice, my wife since Feb '57.
   It took several months to get over the shock and intensity of the 
Linebacker II missions and suddenly being safely at home.  I still am 
unable to completely understand how so many others could have been lost 
all around me and to be spared myself.
  That spring, I finally opened the reassembled motorcycle boxes and was 
lucky enough to find enough parts to put together a complete and proper 
Honda Trail 90 motorcycle, that I had bought in late August for $180 at 
Yokota, Japan, during a 5-day break from flying B-52 missions out of 
Guam. My

Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - PACIFIC CROSSING

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

You can now suffix your name with the initials “B.A.”

It is appropriate.

Dan


 On Nov 3, 2014, at 1:29 PM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 'Never thought myself as such - in fact, probably quite the contrary, but 
 I'll take it as a compliment, anyway.  Thanks.   ;)
 
 Wilton
 
 - Original Message - From: Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 11:49 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - PACIFIC CROSSING
 
 
 All I can say is Wilton is a bad ass. Sorry, it just needed to be said.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Nov 3, 2014, at 10:00 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 Yep, another one already.
 
 PACIFIC  CROSSING
 By Wilton Strickland
 
  Immediately after takeoff from Guam en route to Wichita, KS, on Jan 2, 
 '73, we had a problem getting part of the landing gear up.  As we continued 
 to climb on a northeasterly heading, we talked to Boeing tech reps and the 
 command post back on Guam while trying several times to recycle the gear. 
 If we could not get the gear up, we would have to return to Guam and try 
 again another day.  Finally, after about an hour fiddling with the gear 
 switches and circuit breakers, the gear finally went up and locked, and we 
 were on our way - we would not be turning back.
  Surely, on this B-52D, eastbound across the Pacific Ocean, must have been 
 the luckiest and happiest crew ever.  What we had been through the last 
 several days over the Hanoi area of N. Vietnam was absolutely incredible 
 and hard to believe.  Being split up the way we had been for the Linebacker 
 II missions, our crew of five (the gunner had gone home in early Dec) had 
 been involved in a total of 28 of the 741 B-52 sorties to Hanoi as 
 individual substitute crewmembers with other crews, and, suddenly now, we 
 were all safely back together and headed home on the same airplane.  Of the 
 90 crewmen on the fifteen BUFFs lost in the campaign, 30 were killed, 30 
 were rescued immediately and 30 had been taken prisoner and would be 
 repatriated in March.  We felt extremely fortunate to have been spared.
   After several hours in flight, we refueled northeast of Hawaii and 
 continued eastbound for several more boring but exhilarating hours. 
 Daylight had ended very quickly after takeoff from Guam and the night was 
 also very short, as we rushed eastward toward the approaching, morning sun 
 at a combined closing speed of about 1400 MPH.  Finally the coast of 
 California was ahead, and I altered the heading slightly to track just 
 south of the planned route to get a good look at the Golden Gate Bridge, 
 San Francisco, Oakland and the entire bay area below us in the bright sun 
 and to enter the country directly through the Golden Gate (symbolically, 
 anyway, at 37,000 feet) - a fantastically beautiful sight! At the same 
 time, I felt great sadness for those we left behind who would never have 
 such an opportunity and view.
  We continued on to Wichita, arriving there in early afternoon at the end 
 of a nearly 14-hour flight.  We unloaded our baggage and cargo, including 3 
 boxes containing parts of my motorcycle (a tanker crewman from Kincheloe 
 had taken one of the motorcycle boxes on 23 Dec) and microwave oven, from a 
 rack mounted in the bomb bay, turned the bomber over to Boeing 
 representatives, said my final goodbye to D model BUFFs, and went to base 
 operations to await a KC-135 tanker from Kincheloe to take us home.
  In an hour or so we were on the tanker and headed north; we opened our 
 bags, dug out and donned winter underwear and jackets that we needed 
 immediately upon landing in the depths of winter on the Michigan Upper 
 Peninsula - a shocking change from the balmy, summer-like sun of Guam and 
 Thailand we had just departed.
  Our wives and children, wing commander  several other senior officers 
 were out on the ramp to greet us.  It took a while to transfer our stuff to 
 our personal vehicles, but soon I was at home trying to catch up on things 
 missed - several months with the family and Christmas.
  We finally went to bed about 4 AM.  Less than an hour later, I had a dream 
 (or nightmare) that I was in bed with some strange woman.  I had raised 
 up and was staring intently at the woman's face trying to figure out who it 
 was and alarmed at what I had done when Alice awoke with a startled 
 Oooh! awakening me.  A few more very confused seconds passed before I 
 realized where I was, and very relieved to find that the strange woman 
 was Alice, my wife since Feb '57.
   It took several months to get over the shock and intensity of the 
 Linebacker II missions and suddenly being safely at home.  I still am 
 unable to completely understand how so many others could have been lost all 
 around me and to be spared myself.
  That spring, I finally opened the reassembled motorcycle boxes

Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - PACIFIC CROSSING

[G Mann via Mercedes]

B.A.  . Does that mean Wilton now has to wear 30 lbs. of gold chains
and a Mohawk hair cut?

Pictures please !

[Autographed of course]

On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 You can now suffix your name with the initials “B.A.”

 It is appropriate.

 Dan


  On Nov 3, 2014, at 1:29 PM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
  'Never thought myself as such - in fact, probably quite the contrary,
 but I'll take it as a compliment, anyway.  Thanks.   ;)
 
  Wilton
 
  - Original Message - From: Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 11:49 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Another non-political B-52 tale - PACIFIC
 CROSSING
 
 
  All I can say is Wilton is a bad ass. Sorry, it just needed to be said.
 
  Sent from my iPhone
 
  On Nov 3, 2014, at 10:00 AM, WILTON via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  Yep, another one already.
 
  PACIFIC  CROSSING
  By Wilton Strickland
 
   Immediately after takeoff from Guam en route to Wichita, KS, on Jan
 2, '73, we had a problem getting part of the landing gear up.  As we
 continued to climb on a northeasterly heading, we talked to Boeing tech
 reps and the command post back on Guam while trying several times to
 recycle the gear. If we could not get the gear up, we would have to return
 to Guam and try again another day.  Finally, after about an hour fiddling
 with the gear switches and circuit breakers, the gear finally went up and
 locked, and we were on our way - we would not be turning back.
   Surely, on this B-52D, eastbound across the Pacific Ocean, must have
 been the luckiest and happiest crew ever.  What we had been through the
 last several days over the Hanoi area of N. Vietnam was absolutely
 incredible and hard to believe.  Being split up the way we had been for the
 Linebacker II missions, our crew of five (the gunner had gone home in early
 Dec) had been involved in a total of 28 of the 741 B-52 sorties to Hanoi as
 individual substitute crewmembers with other crews, and, suddenly now, we
 were all safely back together and headed home on the same airplane.  Of the
 90 crewmen on the fifteen BUFFs lost in the campaign, 30 were killed, 30
 were rescued immediately and 30 had been taken prisoner and would be
 repatriated in March.  We felt extremely fortunate to have been spared.
After several hours in flight, we refueled northeast of Hawaii and
 continued eastbound for several more boring but exhilarating hours.
 Daylight had ended very quickly after takeoff from Guam and the night was
 also very short, as we rushed eastward toward the approaching, morning sun
 at a combined closing speed of about 1400 MPH.  Finally the coast of
 California was ahead, and I altered the heading slightly to track just
 south of the planned route to get a good look at the Golden Gate Bridge,
 San Francisco, Oakland and the entire bay area below us in the bright sun
 and to enter the country directly through the Golden Gate (symbolically,
 anyway, at 37,000 feet) - a fantastically beautiful sight! At the same
 time, I felt great sadness for those we left behind who would never have
 such an opportunity and view.
   We continued on to Wichita, arriving there in early afternoon at the
 end of a nearly 14-hour flight.  We unloaded our baggage and cargo,
 including 3 boxes containing parts of my motorcycle (a tanker crewman from
 Kincheloe had taken one of the motorcycle boxes on 23 Dec) and microwave
 oven, from a rack mounted in the bomb bay, turned the bomber over to Boeing
 representatives, said my final goodbye to D model BUFFs, and went to base
 operations to await a KC-135 tanker from Kincheloe to take us home.
   In an hour or so we were on the tanker and headed north; we opened
 our bags, dug out and donned winter underwear and jackets that we needed
 immediately upon landing in the depths of winter on the Michigan Upper
 Peninsula - a shocking change from the balmy, summer-like sun of Guam and
 Thailand we had just departed.
   Our wives and children, wing commander  several other senior
 officers were out on the ramp to greet us.  It took a while to transfer our
 stuff to our personal vehicles, but soon I was at home trying to catch up
 on things missed - several months with the family and Christmas.
   We finally went to bed about 4 AM.  Less than an hour later, I had a
 dream (or nightmare) that I was in bed with some strange woman.  I had
 raised up and was staring intently at the woman's face trying to figure out
 who it was and alarmed at what I had done when Alice awoke with a
 startled Oooh! awakening me.  A few more very confused seconds passed
 before I realized where I was, and very relieved to find that the strange
 woman was Alice, my wife since Feb '57.
It took several months to get over the shock and intensity of the
 Linebacker II missions and suddenly being safely

Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[LarryT via Mercedes]

mao,
Wow - you really had to go a long way back to find that example. Got 
anything newer?  IMO, when the church began to be less managed by 
monarchs interested in expanding territory and more managed by religious 
types who read the Bible and realized Jesus has a forgiveness game plan 
and not a convert or die game plan.  OTOH, the muslims have been 
pretty much using the same tactics since the MIddle Ages except Battle 
Axes have been (mostly) replaced by machetes and Suicide Vests.


LarryT
91 300D


On 11/1/2014 8:38 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote:

Hasn't church also proven to have the same objective?
viz. crusades and current missions efforts?
I tend to see many similaritie



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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The Muslim leadership in most countries preaches tolerance and not convert or 
die, its far to easy to lump the extremists in with the radical crazies.

If you'd like to play that game I'd point you to the Westboro Baptists...

-Curt



 From: LarryT via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE  QUICK
DEPARTURE
 

mao,
Wow - you really had to go a long way back to find that example. Got 
anything newer?  IMO, when the church began to be less managed by 
monarchs interested in expanding territory and more managed by religious 
types who read the Bible and realized Jesus has a forgiveness game plan 
and not a convert or die game plan.  OTOH, the muslims have been 
pretty much using the same tactics since the MIddle Ages except Battle 
Axes have been (mostly) replaced by machetes and Suicide Vests.

LarryT
91 300D





On 11/1/2014 8:38 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote:
 Hasn't church also proven to have the same objective?
 viz. crusades and current missions efforts?
 I tend to see many similaritie


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control over the content of the messages of each contributor.

Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I had the privilege to spend a short amount of time with the head of the local 
CAIR organization when the local Muslim community was being pilloried by a 
rather narrow minded school board candidate.  It gave me a great deal of 
insight into their religion, of which I knew little, and a much better 
understanding of the difficulties they face in today’s society.

Every religion or following always seems to have its fringe elements that 
distort and often misquote its doctrine to “fit” their particular 
interpretation.  The mainstream members are usually embarrassed and do their 
best to distance themselves from these groups. I firmly believe this to be the 
case with the majority of the people who are practicing Muslims. Examples can 
be found throughout history. 

The Inquisition is my personal favorite when it comes to examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJZ2m6_T1wc

One could easily say the same abut the Opus Dei folks of the Roman Catholic 
Church, for example…..

Thanks to all for keeping this conversation civil and insightful.  While the 
subject matter can be controversial, there’s certainly nothing wrong with 
intelligent discussions about it.


Dan




 On Nov 2, 2014, at 3:57 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 The Muslim leadership in most countries preaches tolerance and not convert or 
 die, its far to easy to lump the extremists in with the radical crazies.
 
 If you'd like to play that game I'd point you to the Westboro Baptists...
 
 -Curt
 
 
 
 From: LarryT via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 3:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE  QUICK  
 DEPARTURE
 
 
 mao,
 Wow - you really had to go a long way back to find that example. Got 
 anything newer?  IMO, when the church began to be less managed by 
 monarchs interested in expanding territory and more managed by religious 
 types who read the Bible and realized Jesus has a forgiveness game plan 
 and not a convert or die game plan.  OTOH, the muslims have been 
 pretty much using the same tactics since the MIddle Ages except Battle 
 Axes have been (mostly) replaced by machetes and Suicide Vests.
 
 LarryT
 91 300D
 
 
 
 
 
 On 11/1/2014 8:38 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote:
 Hasn't church also proven to have the same objective?
 viz. crusades and current missions efforts?
 I tend to see many similaritie
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those 
 individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has 
 no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
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 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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 individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has 
 no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.


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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

CAIR seem to be major apologists for anything from the muslims from what 
I have seen, but YMHMV.


The fringe element of the muslims is like 10%, which with over 1Bil+ 
adherents gives something like 100Mil+ fringe members, so that is 
something of concern.


And, NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

--R (off my soapbox now to go bend some more copper)


On 11/2/14 4:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I had the privilege to spend a short amount of time with the head of the local 
CAIR organization when the local Muslim community was being pilloried by a 
rather narrow minded school board candidate.  It gave me a great deal of 
insight into their religion, of which I knew little, and a much better 
understanding of the difficulties they face in today’s society.

Every religion or following always seems to have its fringe elements that 
distort and often misquote its doctrine to “fit” their particular 
interpretation.  The mainstream members are usually embarrassed and do their 
best to distance themselves from these groups. I firmly believe this to be the 
case with the majority of the people who are practicing Muslims. Examples can 
be found throughout history.

The Inquisition is my personal favorite when it comes to examples:



___
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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those 
individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has no 
control over the content of the messages of each contributor.

Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICKDEPARTURE

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Bend copper?  So you're makin' stills, now, for the moonshiners?   ;)

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE  
QUICKDEPARTURE



CAIR seem to be major apologists for anything from the muslims from what I 
have seen, but YMHMV.


The fringe element of the muslims is like 10%, which with over 1Bil+ 
adherents gives something like 100Mil+ fringe members, so that is 
something of concern.


And, NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

--R (off my soapbox now to go bend some more copper)


On 11/2/14 4:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
I had the privilege to spend a short amount of time with the head of the 
local CAIR organization when the local Muslim community was being 
pilloried by a rather narrow minded school board candidate.  It gave me a 
great deal of insight into their religion, of which I knew little, and a 
much better understanding of the difficulties they face in today’s 
society.


Every religion or following always seems to have its fringe elements that 
distort and often misquote its doctrine to “fit” their particular 
interpretation.  The mainstream members are usually embarrassed and do 
their best to distance themselves from these groups. I firmly believe 
this to be the case with the majority of the people who are practicing 
Muslims. Examples can be found throughout history.


The Inquisition is my personal favorite when it comes to examples:



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All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those 
individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner 
has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.





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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Convert or die was used by the roman catholic church against protestants.

Edict of Worms (1521-an edict by Charles V 
outlawing Martin Luther and all his writings with 
death sentences and confiscatory penalties for 
anyone, such as a printer, found with them in 
their possession[1])  (wikipedia, 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_of_Speyer_(1526))


In the region between speyer (protestant) and 
worms (catholic)  many  people were executed, 
often by burning at the stake.  My family oral 
history claims that was the reason my ancestors 
left the Speyer region and immigrated (legally) 
to the USA.   A few years later, they were robbed 
by the Mormons as they left Nauvoo and started 
toward Salt Lake City.


the world is ruled by the aggressive use of 
force  The only way the current aggressors will 
be stopped is if everyone is converted or dead, 
or if other powers rise up with more aggressive 
use of force, and kill or cow (or convert) the 
aggressors.


It is my understanding that many of the british 
empire folks named Moore are descended from moors 
who were brought back as converts or captives or 
willing accomplices from the crusades.  by the 
1730s, many were good irishmen.


What C AIR tells you may or may not be true. 
Remember, it is considered OK to lie to an 
infidel.




I had the privilege to spend a short amount of 
time with the head of the local CAIR 
organization when the local Muslim community was 
being pilloried by a rather narrow minded school 
board candidate.  It gave me a great deal of 
insight into their religion, of which I knew 
little, and a much better understanding of the 
difficulties they face in today's society.


Every religion or following always seems to have 
its fringe elements that distort and often 
misquote its doctrine to fit their particular 
interpretation.  The mainstream members are 
usually embarrassed and do their best to 
distance themselves from these groups. I firmly 
believe this to be the case with the majority of 
the people who are practicing Muslims. Examples 
can be found throughout history.


The Inquisition is my personal favorite when it comes to examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJZ2m6_T1wc

One could easily say the same abut the Opus Dei 
folks of the Roman Catholic Church, for 
exampleŠ..


Thanks to all for keeping this conversation 
civil and insightful.  While the subject matter 
can be controversial, there's certainly nothing 
wrong with intelligent discussions about it.


Dan

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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[G Mann via Mercedes]

CAIR... is that the same CAIR that was found to be funding and collecting
funds for numerous muslim terrorist orginizations world wide?  That CAIR?

Al Taqyyia is the lie blessed by allah. Per Quran and Hadiths, the use of
Al Taqyyia is not only permitted but blessed by Allah as long as the lie
is told to further the cause of islam in it's goal to rule the world, and
it is told to a non believer ie. anyone not muslim.  Such as when the
president of CAIR talked to you.

Don't take my word for it... look into it to your satisfaction.

Respectfully, I will try to make no further comments on this subject.. I
wish to avoid political conflict on this board per list moms desire..



On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Convert or die was used by the roman catholic church against protestants.

 Edict of Worms (1521-an edict by Charles V outlawing Martin Luther and all
 his writings with death sentences and confiscatory penalties for anyone,
 such as a printer, found with them in their possession[1])  (wikipedia,
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_of_Speyer_(1526))

 In the region between speyer (protestant) and worms (catholic)  many
 people were executed, often by burning at the stake.  My family oral
 history claims that was the reason my ancestors left the Speyer region and
 immigrated (legally) to the USA.   A few years later, they were robbed by
 the Mormons as they left Nauvoo and started toward Salt Lake City.

 the world is ruled by the aggressive use of force  The only way the
 current aggressors will be stopped is if everyone is converted or dead, or
 if other powers rise up with more aggressive use of force, and kill or cow
 (or convert) the aggressors.

 It is my understanding that many of the british empire folks named Moore
 are descended from moors who were brought back as converts or captives or
 willing accomplices from the crusades.  by the 1730s, many were good
 irishmen.

 What C AIR tells you may or may not be true. Remember, it is considered OK
 to lie to an infidel.



  I had the privilege to spend a short amount of time with the head of the
 local CAIR organization when the local Muslim community was being pilloried
 by a rather narrow minded school board candidate.  It gave me a great deal
 of insight into their religion, of which I knew little, and a much better
 understanding of the difficulties they face in today's society.

 Every religion or following always seems to have its fringe elements that
 distort and often misquote its doctrine to fit their particular
 interpretation.  The mainstream members are usually embarrassed and do
 their best to distance themselves from these groups. I firmly believe this
 to be the case with the majority of the people who are practicing Muslims.
 Examples can be found throughout history.

 The Inquisition is my personal favorite when it comes to examples:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJZ2m6_T1wc

 One could easily say the same abut the Opus Dei folks of the Roman
 Catholic Church, for exampleŠ..

 Thanks to all for keeping this conversation civil and insightful.  While
 the subject matter can be controversial, there's certainly nothing wrong
 with intelligent discussions about it.

 Dan

 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com

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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

 All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
 individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
 has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.

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individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has no 
control over the content of the messages of each contributor.

Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Grant wrote:
 The under
 laying principle which pervades the Mid-East is Islam, which desires to
 rule the entire world under an Islamic Caliphate.

Hasn't church also proven to have the same objective?
viz. crusades and current missions efforts?
I tend to see many similarities so am loathe to criticize.

The continuation of this thread was open to Wilton, by my suggestion.
None of the rest of us destroyed Hanoi, so, we need to remain mum,
puleez.
mao

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[MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[WILTON via Mercedes]

FINALE  QUICK DEPARTURE
By Wilton Strickland

The night of 29 Dec was very uneventful, except for my herding/shooing 
a gaggle of large ducks into the operations building and Hat Colonel's (a 
colonel who would come out to the snack hooch and take names of air 
crewmen not wearing hats) office just before we boarded the crew bus for 
another and last trip to Hanoi, .
My target was Thai Nguyen Steel Mill and Rail Yards 35 NM north of 
Hanoi.  I was #2 in the last cell of three B-52's to cross the target area. 
The bomb run was unusually quiet - not a single SAM nor round of AAA was 
fired at my aircraft.  They were out of ammo, and we were out of targets.  I 
had seen photos of the complete destruction in the areas struck by B-52's 
since the 18th and did not think there was another target left in North 
Vietnam worthy of a B-52 strike.  We had finally fought the war for 11 
days/nights the way many of us thought it should have been many years 
before - strategically, overwhelmingly and decisively.  I was confident that 
it was finally over, and that we had won it as we departed the Hanoi area 
for the last time.  I was elated by the victory, but I was deeply saddened 
by thoughts of the more than 58,000 Americans who would never go home and 
the tremendous waste the entire tragic fiasco had been, not only for us, but 
for thousands of Vietnamese, as well.
   For most of the following day, there was much speculation among the BUFF 
crewmen at U-Tapao as to whether or not we would go to Hanoi again that 
night.  I kept saying that I thought we would not - that I thought the 
campaign was over.  About mid-afternoon, while I was sitting outside 
sunning, the navigator on my temporary crew came to the door of our room and 
called out to me that 17th Air Division commander, B/G Sullivan, wanted to 
speak to me on the phone.  En route to the phone, I wondered if he were 
calling about the ducks we had herded into Hat Colonel's office the night 
before.
   The General thanked me for the outstanding manner in which the other two 
members of my regular crew from Kincheloe AFB, MI, and I had performed as 
individual substitutes on other crews during the Linebacker II campaign.  He 
also thanked me for having the courage to express my concerns about the 
faulty tactical plan at the pre-mission briefing on the night of the 19th. 
Then he told me that, if we three from Kincheloe could be at base operations 
in 30 minutes, we could fly to Guam that night aboard a KC-135 tanker, join 
the other two members of our Kincheloe crew there and fly a B-52 from Guam 
to the Boeing Plant at Wichita, KS, on Jan 1st or 2nd .  He added that, 
because he was giving such short notice, if we could not make it - if I 
could not find the other two  get to base operations in time - we could 
possibly go a couple of days later.  (To me, that meant that another crew 
may fly the bomber to Wichita.  I not only wanted to get home as soon as 
possible, but I had stuff in a storage room on Guam that I could take home 
much more easily in a BUFF than as a passenger on a tanker.  I wanted to 
make sure WE were flying that bomber to Wichita.)  I assured The General 
that we would take the assignment and be at base operations in record time.
   After I got off the phone, I ran as fast as I have ever run a couple of 
blocks through the crew quarters area, hoping that I would be able to find 
the other two guys.  Luckily, I found them sitting outside in the sun.

   I quickly told them the plan and, Let's go, now!
   They jumped up to go inside to get their bags, while I ran back to my 
room to pack mine and don a flight suit.  While I was throwing my things in 
bags ('never did really pack for this trip), I heard a vehicle horn sound 
outside.  I opened my door and looked out to see my two guys on a 
commandeered Air Force fireman's pickup truck.  The fireman was driving, and 
they were all yelling for me to hurry.  I finished throwing my things in the 
bags, and off we went to base operations.
   At base operations, it was hurry up and wait.  We had been in and out 
of Thailand (back and forth between Guam and U-Tapao) several times flying 
the airplane (BUFF) ourselves, but suddenly now we had to get in line with 
all the other cattle and go through customs to depart as passengers on a 
KC-135.  When we finally got to the customs counter, the staff sergeant 
inspector instructed us that we would have to dump everything out of our 
bags, and as he cleared each item, individually, he would hand it to us to 
put in the bags.  Soon after this process began, the electronics warfare 
officer (EW) on my crew pulled a very small Swiss Army knife out of his 
pocket to fix a problem with a fingernail.  The customs guy saw it and told 
EW that they would have to confiscate the knife, or EW would have to put it 
somewhere in a bag where he could not get to it.
   I laughed incredulously and asked, as I gripped with both hands my 
full-size knife 

Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Air Regulation 1:
When the gross weight of the paperwork meets or exceeds the gross take off
weight of the aircraft, you may be cleared for flight but only after all
documents are signed, in triplicate, by a number of inspectors exceeding
the passenger and crew capacity of said aircraft.

Elephant:
A mouse built under government contract...

Yes?

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:55 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:

 FINALE  QUICK DEPARTURE
 By Wilton Strickland

 The night of 29 Dec was very uneventful, except for my herding/shooing
 a gaggle of large ducks into the operations building and Hat Colonel's (a
 colonel who would come out to the snack hooch and take names of air
 crewmen not wearing hats) office just before we boarded the crew bus for
 another and last trip to Hanoi, .
 My target was Thai Nguyen Steel Mill and Rail Yards 35 NM north of
 Hanoi.  I was #2 in the last cell of three B-52's to cross the target area.
 The bomb run was unusually quiet - not a single SAM nor round of AAA was
 fired at my aircraft.  They were out of ammo, and we were out of targets.
 I had seen photos of the complete destruction in the areas struck by B-52's
 since the 18th and did not think there was another target left in North
 Vietnam worthy of a B-52 strike.  We had finally fought the war for 11
 days/nights the way many of us thought it should have been many years
 before - strategically, overwhelmingly and decisively.  I was confident
 that it was finally over, and that we had won it as we departed the Hanoi
 area for the last time.  I was elated by the victory, but I was deeply
 saddened by thoughts of the more than 58,000 Americans who would never go
 home and the tremendous waste the entire tragic fiasco had been, not only
 for us, but for thousands of Vietnamese, as well.
For most of the following day, there was much speculation among the
 BUFF crewmen at U-Tapao as to whether or not we would go to Hanoi again
 that night.  I kept saying that I thought we would not - that I thought the
 campaign was over.  About mid-afternoon, while I was sitting outside
 sunning, the navigator on my temporary crew came to the door of our room
 and called out to me that 17th Air Division commander, B/G Sullivan, wanted
 to speak to me on the phone.  En route to the phone, I wondered if he were
 calling about the ducks we had herded into Hat Colonel's office the night
 before.
The General thanked me for the outstanding manner in which the other
 two members of my regular crew from Kincheloe AFB, MI, and I had performed
 as individual substitutes on other crews during the Linebacker II
 campaign.  He also thanked me for having the courage to express my concerns
 about the faulty tactical plan at the pre-mission briefing on the night of
 the 19th. Then he told me that, if we three from Kincheloe could be at base
 operations in 30 minutes, we could fly to Guam that night aboard a KC-135
 tanker, join the other two members of our Kincheloe crew there and fly a
 B-52 from Guam to the Boeing Plant at Wichita, KS, on Jan 1st or 2nd .  He
 added that, because he was giving such short notice, if we could not make
 it - if I could not find the other two  get to base operations in time -
 we could possibly go a couple of days later.  (To me, that meant that
 another crew may fly the bomber to Wichita.  I not only wanted to get home
 as soon as possible, but I had stuff in a storage room on Guam that I could
 take home much more easily in a BUFF than as a passenger on a tanker.  I
 wanted to make sure WE were flying that bomber to Wichita.)  I assured The
 General that we would take the assignment and be at base operations in
 record time.
After I got off the phone, I ran as fast as I have ever run a couple of
 blocks through the crew quarters area, hoping that I would be able to find
 the other two guys.  Luckily, I found them sitting outside in the sun.
I quickly told them the plan and, Let's go, now!
They jumped up to go inside to get their bags, while I ran back to my
 room to pack mine and don a flight suit.  While I was throwing my things in
 bags ('never did really pack for this trip), I heard a vehicle horn sound
 outside.  I opened my door and looked out to see my two guys on a
 commandeered Air Force fireman's pickup truck.  The fireman was driving,
 and they were all yelling for me to hurry.  I finished throwing my things
 in the bags, and off we went to base operations.
At base operations, it was hurry up and wait.  We had been in and out
 of Thailand (back and forth between Guam and U-Tapao) several times flying
 the airplane (BUFF) ourselves, but suddenly now we had to get in line with
 all the other cattle and go through customs to depart as passengers on a
 KC-135.  When we finally got to the customs counter, the staff sergeant
 inspector instructed us that we would have to dump everything out of our
 bags, and as he cleared each item, individually, he would hand it to us
 

Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

What are we going to do, hijack ourselves? 

Love it!

-Curt



 From: WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: mercedes list mercedes@okiebenz.com; WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com 
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 1:55 PM
Subject: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE  QUICK
DEPARTURE
 

FINALE  QUICK DEPARTURE
By Wilton Strickland

 The night of 29 Dec was very uneventful, except for my herding/shooing 
a gaggle of large ducks into the operations building and Hat Colonel's (a 
colonel who would come out to the snack hooch and take names of air 
crewmen not wearing hats) office just before we boarded the crew bus for 
another and last trip to Hanoi, .
 My target was Thai Nguyen Steel Mill and Rail Yards 35 NM north of 
Hanoi.  I was #2 in the last cell of three B-52's to cross the target area. 
The bomb run was unusually quiet - not a single SAM nor round of AAA was 
fired at my aircraft.  They were out of ammo, and we were out of targets.  I 
had seen photos of the complete destruction in the areas struck by B-52's 
since the 18th and did not think there was another target left in North 
Vietnam worthy of a B-52 strike.  We had finally fought the war for 11 
days/nights the way many of us thought it should have been many years 
before - strategically, overwhelmingly and decisively.  I was confident that 
it was finally over, and that we had won it as we departed the Hanoi area 
for the last time.  I was elated by the victory, but I was deeply saddened 
by thoughts of the more than 58,000 Americans who would never go home and 
the tremendous waste the entire tragic fiasco had been, not only for us, but 
for thousands of Vietnamese, as well.
For most of the following day, there was much speculation among the BUFF 
crewmen at U-Tapao as to whether or not we would go to Hanoi again that 
night.  I kept saying that I thought we would not - that I thought the 
campaign was over.  About mid-afternoon, while I was sitting outside 
sunning, the navigator on my temporary crew came to the door of our room and 
called out to me that 17th Air Division commander, B/G Sullivan, wanted to 
speak to me on the phone.  En route to the phone, I wondered if he were 
calling about the ducks we had herded into Hat Colonel's office the night 
before.
The General thanked me for the outstanding manner in which the other two 
members of my regular crew from Kincheloe AFB, MI, and I had performed as 
individual substitutes on other crews during the Linebacker II campaign.  He 
also thanked me for having the courage to express my concerns about the 
faulty tactical plan at the pre-mission briefing on the night of the 19th. 
Then he told me that, if we three from Kincheloe could be at base operations 
in 30 minutes, we could fly to Guam that night aboard a KC-135 tanker, join 
the other two members of our Kincheloe crew there and fly a B-52 from Guam 
to the Boeing Plant at Wichita, KS, on Jan 1st or 2nd .  He added that, 
because he was giving such short notice, if we could not make it - if I 
could not find the other two  get to base operations in time - we could 
possibly go a couple of days later.  (To me, that meant that another crew 
may fly the bomber to Wichita.  I not only wanted to get home as soon as 
possible, but I had stuff in a storage room on Guam that I could take home 
much more easily in a BUFF than as a passenger on a tanker.  I wanted to 
make sure WE were flying that bomber to Wichita.)  I assured The General 
that we would take the assignment and be at base operations in record time.
After I got off the phone, I ran as fast as I have ever run a couple of 
blocks through the crew quarters area, hoping that I would be able to find 
the other two guys.  Luckily, I found them sitting outside in the sun.
I quickly told them the plan and, Let's go, now!
They jumped up to go inside to get their bags, while I ran back to my 
room to pack mine and don a flight suit.  While I was throwing my things in 
bags ('never did really pack for this trip), I heard a vehicle horn sound 
outside.  I opened my door and looked out to see my two guys on a 
commandeered Air Force fireman's pickup truck.  The fireman was driving, and 
they were all yelling for me to hurry.  I finished throwing my things in the 
bags, and off we went to base operations.
At base operations, it was hurry up and wait.  We had been in and out 
of Thailand (back and forth between Guam and U-Tapao) several times flying 
the airplane (BUFF) ourselves, but suddenly now we had to get in line with 
all the other cattle and go through customs to depart as passengers on a 
KC-135.  When we finally got to the customs counter, the staff sergeant 
inspector instructed us that we would have to dump everything out of our 
bags, and as he cleared each item, individually, he would hand it to us to 
put in the bags.  Soon after this process began, the electronics warfare 
officer (EW) on my crew

Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

WILTON wrote:
 We had finally fought the war for 11
 days/nights the way many of us thought it should have been many years before
 - strategically, overwhelmingly and decisively.

Fast forward 35 years, or whatever.
What is the proper approach to the armaments today? i.e. Syria?
Do we leave well enough alone?
Or is Syria in need of strategic, overwhelming, decisive action such as Hanoi?
...yes, wy too political for okiebenz, prolly, but input might be
interesting to hear from someone who did the Hanoi deed... perhaps?
Yeah, the rest of us need to keep our yap shut since none of us did
the Hanoi trip.
Thanks, Wilton.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I think we should arm the Kurds, bomb Assad and his murderous regime to
hell ala Linebacker, and let the Kurds have Syria.  Give them all the
support they need to knock ISIS on their can, on the condition that
Kurdistan (formerly Syria and northern Iraq) sign a peace agreement with
Israel.  Iran and Putin would scream bloody murder, but we could establish
another strong ally in the region.

Max Dillon,
Charleston SC

On Oct 31, 2014 7:24 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 Fast forward 35 years, or whatever.
 What is the proper approach to the armaments today? i.e. Syria?
 Do we leave well enough alone?
 Or is Syria in need of strategic, overwhelming, decisive action such as
Hanoi?
 ...yes, wy too political for okiebenz, prolly, but input might be
 interesting to hear from someone who did the Hanoi deed... perhaps?
 Yeah, the rest of us need to keep our yap shut since none of us did
 the Hanoi trip.
 Thanks, Wilton.
 mao

___
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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

O! You guys are going be so moderated.
Gerry...who has learned his lesson.

Meade Dillon wrote:

 I think we should arm the Kurds, bomb Assad and his murderous regime to
 hell ala Linebacker, and let the Kurds have Syria.  Give them all the
 support they need to knock ISIS on their can, on the condition that
 Kurdistan (formerly Syria and northern Iraq) sign a peace agreement with
 Israel.  Iran and Putin would scream bloody murder, but we could establish
 another strong ally in the region.
 
 Max Dillon,
 Charleston SC
 
 On Oct 31, 2014 7:24 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
  Fast forward 35 years, or whatever.
  What is the proper approach to the armaments today? i.e. Syria?
  Do we leave well enough alone?
  Or is Syria in need of strategic, overwhelming, decisive action such as
 Hanoi?
  ...yes, wy too political for okiebenz, prolly, but input might be
  interesting to hear from someone who did the Hanoi deed... perhaps?
  Yeah, the rest of us need to keep our yap shut since none of us did
  the Hanoi trip.
  Thanks, Wilton.
  mao
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those 
 individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has 
 no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 
 
 -
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8487 - Release Date: 10/31/14
 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - FINALE QUICK DEPARTURE

[G Mann via Mercedes]

At the risk of being excommunicated from this August Group, I respectfully
submit the following thoughts.

Apples and Oranges logic.  Hanoi only desired to rule Vietnam. The under
laying principle which pervades the Mid-East is Islam, which desires to
rule the entire world under an Islamic Caliphate. Failure to understand
that pillar of the dominate thought of the area leads other civilized
nations to only look at local issues. Their rule of engagement is convert
or die. If any doubt exists in the historical practice, I invite the
doubter to look at the history of Islam invasion of India [80,000,000
killed] Persia, Afghanistan, Turkey, etc etc.. all the scene of hundreds of
thousands of dead at the hands of the convert of die invading armies. Now
ISIS continues those practices.. and others.

B 52 Linebacker style  tactics would not apply against this style of
conquest.

The English, who spent some 200 years trying to quell the area, ultimately
gave up and went home. There is however a quote of English commander which
likely does still apply. If a Muhammedian tells you the sun rises in the
East, put your back to the wall, draw your knife, and face West while you
wait for his attack... seems to about sum it up..

To those whom this offends, truth requires no apology,

Respectfully,

Grant...

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 8:24 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


 O! You guys are going be so moderated.
 Gerry...who has learned his lesson.

 Meade Dillon wrote:

  I think we should arm the Kurds, bomb Assad and his murderous regime to
  hell ala Linebacker, and let the Kurds have Syria.  Give them all the
  support they need to knock ISIS on their can, on the condition that
  Kurdistan (formerly Syria and northern Iraq) sign a peace agreement with
  Israel.  Iran and Putin would scream bloody murder, but we could
 establish
  another strong ally in the region.
 
  Max Dillon,
  Charleston SC
 
  On Oct 31, 2014 7:24 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
  wrote:
  
   Fast forward 35 years, or whatever.
   What is the proper approach to the armaments today? i.e. Syria?
   Do we leave well enough alone?
   Or is Syria in need of strategic, overwhelming, decisive action such as
  Hanoi?
   ...yes, wy too political for okiebenz, prolly, but input might be
   interesting to hear from someone who did the Hanoi deed... perhaps?
   Yeah, the rest of us need to keep our yap shut since none of us did
   the Hanoi trip.
   Thanks, Wilton.
   mao
  
  ___
  http://www.okiebenz.com
 
  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
  All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
 individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
 has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 
 
  -
  No virus found in this message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8487 - Release Date: 10/31/14
 


 --
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 ___
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 individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
 has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.

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[MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - DON'T DRINK THE WATER

[WILTON via Mercedes]

DON'T DRINK THE WATER
By Wilton Strickland

   During the entire three to four months, while flying bombing missions 
from Thailand to Vietnam in Sep - Dec, 1972, we had been told many times, 
Don't drink the local water, because of the danger of possibly getting 
dysentery or some other digestive system malady.
   Two of our Thai maids had been saying for quite some time, We want to 
take you to a Thai movie.  Pease let us; when may we take you?
   Finally, on the afternoon of Dec 28th, when the women learned that the 
other two members of my Kincheloe crew and I would not be flying that night, 
they insisted they take us to a movie.  We agreed and traveled early that 
evening via a Thai bus to a large city, Rayong, about 12 miles from base.
   Before entering the theater, the women stocked up on snacks - candy 
bars, cokes, peanuts, fried banana chips, etc. - quite a feast, I thought. 
We thought they were getting all of that stuff for themselves, but 
evidently, they were trying to make sure we three men were well fed, also. 
The women passed snacks to us continuously during the entire double feature 
movie - even shelled peanuts for us.
   The theater was like any movie theater in Anytown, USA - clean, 
comfortable, and cool.  I don't remember what the movies were about - 
American, I think, speaking Thai, with English subtitles.
   After the movie and while walking back to the bus stop, we came upon a 
cart café - the owner transports the entire restaurant - food, stove, ice, 
water, soft drinks, table, chairs - everything - on a small cart and sets it 
up on the sidewalk.
   Surprisingly, the women said they were hungry and asked, May we get 
something to eat?
I exclaimed, jokingly, Gosh!  We've been eating steadily for the last two  
a half hours, but yes, of course, you may get something to eat, if you 
want.
We all sat down at the small tables on the sidewalk; the café owner 
placed beautiful glasses of shaved ice and water before each of us and asked 
what we would like to eat.  The women ordered noodles and some other stuff, 
but the other two men and I ordered nothing.  While waiting, I toyed with 
the cold glass of shaved ice and water in front of me.  Ambient temperature 
was about 85F and had been above 95F during the day; I was very thirsty.  I 
thought about the many SAMs we had dodged during the last few days and 
somehow thought, foolishly, of course, If all those SAMs can't get me, 
surely a glass of ice water is OK.
I also had another fleeting thought, and said jokingly, If it makes me 
sick, maybe I won't have to go to Hanoi again tomorrow night.
   I turned the glass up to my lips and drank away.  The instant I put the 
glass down, the café owner re-filled it with shaved ice and water; I quickly 
downed it again - 'don't know when I've ever had better glasses of water. 
The other two guys, seeing me be so brave (or foolish), followed suit.  None 
of us ever felt a thing!  We went to Hanoi again the following night, 
anyway.
BTW, for those who are wondering - there was nothing else going on 
between us and the women.  They knew we'd be leaving soon and simply wanted 
to show their appreciation for our treating them with great respect and to 
demonstrate some Thai hospitality. 



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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - DON'T DRINK THE WATER

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

A couple years ago Angie and I went on a cruise. One of the stops was Cozumel 
in Mexico. I noticed at that stop that unlike all the other places we had been 
the ship didn't take on water. We went to a dolphinarium and swam with the 
dolphins and had lunch there. At lunch I noticed that the water we were given 
was bottled.

Later, walking on the street my wife noticed a shaved ice vendor and decided 
she wanted a shaved ice. I foolishly said no, don't get shaved ice. Angie 
about pitched a fit. To her credit we were 5 days into a 7 day trip and it was 
late in the day, she was tired and we were both getting kind of punchy.

Trying not to be insulting to the vendor I quietly informed my wife that if she 
had a shaved ice and it upset her stomach I was going to kick her out and she 
could sleep in the public bathroom. She got the picture.

I don't know if the water was going to make her sick but I certainly didn't 
want to take a chance.

-Curt



 From: WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: mercedes list mercedes@okiebenz.com; WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 6:02 PM
Subject: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - DON'T DRINK THE WATER
 

DON'T DRINK THE WATER
By Wilton Strickland

During the entire three to four months, while flying bombing missions 
from Thailand to Vietnam in Sep - Dec, 1972, we had been told many times, 
Don't drink the local water, because of the danger of possibly getting 
dysentery or some other digestive system malady.
Two of our Thai maids had been saying for quite some time, We want to 
take you to a Thai movie.  Pease let us; when may we take you?
Finally, on the afternoon of Dec 28th, when the women learned that the 
other two members of my Kincheloe crew and I would not be flying that night, 
they insisted they take us to a movie.  We agreed and traveled early that 
evening via a Thai bus to a large city, Rayong, about 12 miles from base.
Before entering the theater, the women stocked up on snacks - candy 
bars, cokes, peanuts, fried banana chips, etc. - quite a feast, I thought. 
We thought they were getting all of that stuff for themselves, but 
evidently, they were trying to make sure we three men were well fed, also. 
The women passed snacks to us continuously during the entire double feature 
movie - even shelled peanuts for us.
The theater was like any movie theater in Anytown, USA - clean, 
comfortable, and cool.  I don't remember what the movies were about - 
American, I think, speaking Thai, with English subtitles.
After the movie and while walking back to the bus stop, we came upon a 
cart café - the owner transports the entire restaurant - food, stove, ice, 
water, soft drinks, table, chairs - everything - on a small cart and sets it 
up on the sidewalk.
Surprisingly, the women said they were hungry and asked, May we get 
something to eat?
I exclaimed, jokingly, Gosh!  We've been eating steadily for the last two  
a half hours, but yes, of course, you may get something to eat, if you 
want.
 We all sat down at the small tables on the sidewalk; the café owner 
placed beautiful glasses of shaved ice and water before each of us and asked 
what we would like to eat.  The women ordered noodles and some other stuff, 
but the other two men and I ordered nothing.  While waiting, I toyed with 
the cold glass of shaved ice and water in front of me.  Ambient temperature 
was about 85F and had been above 95F during the day; I was very thirsty.  I 
thought about the many SAMs we had dodged during the last few days and 
somehow thought, foolishly, of course, If all those SAMs can't get me, 
surely a glass of ice water is OK.
 I also had another fleeting thought, and said jokingly, If it makes me 
sick, maybe I won't have to go to Hanoi again tomorrow night.
I turned the glass up to my lips and drank away.  The instant I put the 
glass down, the café owner re-filled it with shaved ice and water; I quickly 
downed it again - 'don't know when I've ever had better glasses of water. 
The other two guys, seeing me be so brave (or foolish), followed suit.  None 
of us ever felt a thing!  We went to Hanoi again the following night, 
anyway.
 BTW, for those who are wondering - there was nothing else going on 
between us and the women.  They knew we'd be leaving soon and simply wanted 
to show their appreciation for our treating them with great respect and to 
demonstrate some Thai hospitality. 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - DON'T DRINK THE WATER

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

We were told the same thing in Italy, between '96 and '99.  We were sternly
warned to only drink bottled water, brush our teeth with bottled water, use
bottled water in any food that wasn't heated to boiling.  After I'd been
there a bit and befriended a doctor and some other folks who worked at the
Naples naval hospital, I learned that some local water would fail tests
once or twice a year.  After considering the odds for a bit, I started
drinking the water from the tap when needed.  Never got sick from the water.

When I was in the sand box for a year, working in one of Saddam's
palaces, we got the same warning.  There was an Army colonel that I worked
with who was a Ranger and thought himself pretty tough.  He drank the water
in the palace every day.  One day I asked if he ever got sick from the
water, he laughed and said no.

I suffer from years of sun exposure on my Irish skin, and develop
pre-cancerous spots on my face, neck and hands which my dermatologist
freezes or burns off every year or two.
The military dermatologist didn't have the patience I guess, and prescribed
a cream for me to apply to my face for two weeks.  This cream is basically
a very strong chemical peel, sunburn in a tube I called it.  After the
first week of applying this cream, my face was bright red and quite
painful.  By the second week, it was blistered and really looked awful.

During this painful episode, Colonel Ranger asked me one day if I was ok,
and what happened to my face.  I told him I started following his example,
washing my face and drinking water from the palace bathroom.  He turned
pale and his eyes got big, but I couldn't keep a straight face and started
laughing, and told him the real story.  I will never forget the look on his
face.

Max Dillon,
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - DON'T DRINK THE WATER

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

We were told the same thing in Italy, between '96 and '99.  We were sternly
warned to only drink bottled water, brush our teeth with bottled water, use
bottled water in any food that wasn't heated to boiling.  After I'd been
there a bit and befriended a doctor and some other folks who worked at the
Naples naval hospital, I learned that some local water would fail tests
once or twice a year.  After considering the odds for a bit, I started
drinking the water from the tap when needed.  Never got sick from the water.

When I was in the sand box for a year, working in one of Saddam's
palaces, we got the same warning.  There was an Army colonel that I worked
with who was a Ranger and thought himself pretty tough.  He drank the water
in the palace every day.  One day I asked if he ever got sick from the
water, he laughed and said no.

I suffer from years of sun exposure on my Irish skin, and develop
pre-cancerous spots on my face, neck and hands which my dermatologist
freezes or burns off every year or two.
The military dermatologist didn't have the patience I guess, and prescribed
a cream for me to apply to my face for two weeks.  This cream is basically
a very strong chemical peel, sunburn in a tube I called it.  After the
first week of applying this cream, my face was bright red and quite
painful.  By the second week, it was blistered and really looked awful.

During this painful episode, Colonel Ranger asked me one day if I was ok,
and what happened to my face.  I told him I started following his example,
washing my face and drinking water from the palace bathroom.  He turned
pale and his eyes got big, but I couldn't keep a straight face and started
laughing, and told him the real story.  I will never forget the look on his
face.

Max Dillon,
Charleston SC
___



THAT, SIR, is a GREAT one!Worthy of a MASH prank!

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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - DON'T DRINK THE WATER

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 5:55 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:



 THAT, SIR, is a GREAT one!Worthy of a MASH prank!


Agreed!  Worthy of an ATTABOY!  even if it isn't a MB repair...  :D
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[MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - SAM STORAGE FACILITY

[WILTON via Mercedes]

SAM STORAGE FACILITY
By Wilton Strickland

My target the night of 27 Dec was a SAM storage facility near the SW 
edge of Hanoi.  The air crewmen's demands for changes in tactics had taken 
effect, and tactics had changed drastically from those at the beginning of 
the campaign on the 18th.  For example, four different cells of bombers (12 
aircraft) released on this target from different directions and altitudes at 
the same time - the 4 cell leaders at the desired time on target and 15 
seconds between each aircraft in each cell.  True airspeed on the bomb run 
was 500 knots; 60 seconds before release, we descended 1000 feet and 
accelerated 10 knots; immediately after release, we descended another 1000 
feet and accelerated another 10 knots.  Withdrawal was to the east with 
about a 120-knot tail wind, producing a withdrawal ground speed of about 640 
knots, twice that of previous withdrawals to the west.  Several SAMs were 
fired at us, evidently in salvos (several at once) without guidance, but 
none was very effective.  Luck was with us again, but all BUFFs were not so 
lucky - two in other target areas were lost this night.



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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - SAM STORAGE FACILITY

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 10:19:23 -0400 WILTON via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 SAM STORAGE FACILITY
 By Wilton Strickland

Thank you, Wilton, for your continued tales.


 Luck was with us again, but all BUFFs were not so lucky - two in other
 target areas were lost this night.

Thank you to the men who gave their all.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - SAM STORAGE FACILITY

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Thnks.

Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - SAM STORAGE 
FACILITY




On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 10:19:23 -0400 WILTON via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


SAM STORAGE FACILITY
By Wilton Strickland


Thank you, Wilton, for your continued tales.



Luck was with us again, but all BUFFs were not so lucky - two in other
target areas were lost this night.


Thank you to the men who gave their all.


Craig

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has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. 



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[MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - CALL HOME

[WILTON via Mercedes]

CALL HOME
By Wilton Strickland

   Since the beginning of the Linebacker II campaign, calls to our homes 
via the usual phone and radio/phone systems, AUTOVON, WATTS and MARS, had 
been prohibited.  Sometime during the early afternoon of 27 Dec, only 12 
hours or so after the loss of Morris' crew, I received a message to call the 
wing command post.
   An officer in the command post told me, Your call home has been 
approved.
   I was confused and told the officer,  I don't understand, I've not 
requested a call home.
   After having me hold while he sought clarification, he came back on the 
phone and said, General Sullivan (commander of 17th Air Division) thought, 
because of the loss of a Kincheloe crew last night, you may want to and/or 
should call home to reassure your families that the others from Kincheloe 
are OK.  (As busy as The General must have been, to have thought of me/us 
and our families back home is indicative of a very compassionate man and an 
outstanding officer.)  I agreed, thanked the officer and The General and 
proceeded to the command post to make the call.
Because the Kincheloe wing commander, Col. Bob Herres (later, General, 
and first vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff), had already stopped 
by to see her, my wife, Alice, already knew about the loss of Morris' crew.
I tried to reassure her, The rest of us are OK; I'll be going home in 
a few days.  This won't last much longer.
It was especially hard to convince her, though.  Another crewman from 
Kincheloe had already made a commercial call from the USO Club to his wife 
earlier that day and conveyed a much more somber mood - even begging her to 
Do anything - just get me home.
The other wife had called Alice crying and pleading, What am I going 
to do - what can I do?
Alice had tried to comfort and persuade her that the best they could do 
was to have faith that we would return safely.
Again, I assured her,  We're OK, and we'll be home soon - don't 
despair.  I love you.  Tell the children, 'I'm OK, and I love them, too.' 
The other crewman who had called home came to me less than an hour 
after I had talked to Alice and told me that he had called his wife and 
asked her to try to get him home.  Possibly, fear and stress had made him 
nearly a nervous wreck.  He lifted his shirt to show me the large whelps or 
hives covering his upper torso.  I told him about the message I had received 
from B/G Sullivan and that I had called Alice, but I did not tell him that 
his wife had called Alice and related his plea or that I knew about the plea 
or the nature and tone of it.  I'm no doctor, of course, but I thought that 
his condition made 'im unfit to fly and advised him to see the flight 
surgeon immediately, but I don't think he did.  I would not have wanted to 
fly with him in that condition, but I think he went to Hanoi at least once 
more, probably on the 29th.  We never discussed the incident or his 
condition again, and I never mentioned it to anybody else.



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[MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - MORRIS' CREW

[WILTON via Mercedes]

MORRIS'  CREW
By Wilton Strickland

   Many BUFF crews at U-Tapao had been going to Hanoi almost every night 
since the beginning of the Linebacker II campaign the night of Dec. 18, '72, 
but because of the long distance involved, crews on Guam had been going only 
about every other night.  On 24 or 25 December, several crews were 
transferred from Guam to U-Tapao, to increase sortie rate at U-Tapao and to 
relieve some U-Tapao crews.  A crew from my home base, Kincheloe AFB, MI, 
led by Capt. Bob Morris, had been in theater only a few days and  was one of 
the crews to transfer.  I knew all of the members of this crew well - they 
were my friends.
   Late the morning of 26 Dec, I went to the officers club for 
breakfast/brunch.  Morris and the other four officers on his crew (1Lt Bob 
Hudson, co-pilot, Capt. Mike LaBeau, radar-navigator/bombardier (RN), 1Lt 
Duane Vavroch, Nav, and Capt. Nutter Wimbrow, electronic warfare officer 
(EW), were there.  We had a great time reminiscing, I, catching up on news 
from home and they, picking us old-timers for tips on flying over Hanoi, 
dodging missiles, etc.  While at the club, we got news from scheduling that 
Morris' crew would be flying that night, but I would not.  Also while at the 
club, we read a Bangkok, Thailand, English language newspaper.  In the paper 
were pictures of BUFF crewmen who had been shot down a couple of days before 
and were POW's in Hanoi.
   As we were leaving the club, both Morris and Wimbrow said that they were 
going to stop by the barbershop and get haircuts so they would look good on 
Hanoi TV and in the papers tomorrow.  I bade them so-long and good luck 
and stopped by another table on the way out of the club to chat with another 
friend for a few minutes.
This was a friend I had met on my second trip through B-52 Combat Crew 
Training at Castle AFB, CA, the summer after I returned to active duty 
(immediately after graduation at North Carolina State University in May 
'71).  This man, LtCol Don Joyner, had also been out of B-52's for several 
years and was returning to the school for re-qualification training, as was 
I.  Col Joyner and I talked at length about our families - how we loved them 
dearly and about how we were supposed to have gone home several days before, 
but had been delayed by the Linebacker II campaign.  We both wished each 
other well and wished for each other to be at home with our families soon.
   Late that afternoon, as the crew buses were loading and leaving the crew 
quarters area, the co-pilot on Morris' crew, Lt Hudson, ran up to me and 
asked to borrow my recorder cord (a cord that a radio technician had made 
for me to facilitate connecting my personal recorder into the aircraft radio 
system).  I gave the cord to him and off they went to their pre-mission 
briefings and to Hanoi.
   Before dawn the next morning, there came a knock on my door.  It was the 
EW on my Kincheloe crew, coming to tell me that Morris' crew had been lost 
over Hanoi and that Col Joyner's bomber had crashed in the jungle just off 
the base.  Both bombers had been hit by SAMs, Morris' going down immediately 
and Col Joyner's making it back to base with 4 engines out on one side, 
making it very hard to fly, especially at low speed.
   According to the officer in charge of U-Tapao air traffic control that 
night, LtCol Prentis Ollis, who witnessed the landing attempt by Col Joyner's 
aircraft, they were having problems controlling the aircraft on descent.  As 
they tried to land, the aircraft continued to float wobbly  about 200 feet 
above the runway and crashed just beyond the departure end of the runway.
   Only two of the crew survived.  The co-pilot, 1Lt Bob Hymel, was pulled 
out by another pilot, Capt. Brent Diefenbach, who had landed a short time 
before, was on a crew bus nearby, saw the crash, commandeered a Thai vehicle 
and drove to the crash.  The gunner, wounded in flight, was also able to 
scramble free of the wreckage.  (LtCol (Ret) Bob Hymel was killed at his 
desk in the Pentagon during the terrorist attack on September 11, 2001.  He 
was buried at Arlington as a B-52 passed overhead in tribute.)
   About midmorning the next day, several of us were sitting outside at 
picnic tables in the crew quarters area, discussing the tragedies of the 
night before, when suddenly we were very glad to see the young gunner from 
Morris' crew get off a bus nearby.  For a few minutes we hoped that the bad 
news of the previous night was untrue.  Our hopes for the rest of his crew 
were quickly dashed, however, when he told us that he had not gone on the 
mission; he had gotten sick after engine start, and another gunner had taken 
his place.
   In March '73, the POW's who had survived the B-52 losses were released, 
and I talked at length to the three surviving members of Morris' crew, 
Hudson, LaBeau and Vavroch, back home in Michigan.  The first thing Lt 
Hudson did when he saw me was to apologize profusely for losing my 

Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - MORRIS' CREW

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

(raises a glass in memory of the fallen)

-MMM-

On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 9:38 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 MORRIS'  CREW
 By Wilton Strickland

Many BUFF crews at U-Tapao had been going to Hanoi almost every night
 since the beginning of the Linebacker II campaign the night of Dec. 18,
 '72, but because of the long distance involved, crews on Guam had been
 going only about every other night.  On 24 or 25 December, several crews
 were transferred from Guam to U-Tapao, to increase sortie rate at U-Tapao
 and to relieve some U-Tapao crews.  A crew from my home base, Kincheloe
 AFB, MI, led by Capt. Bob Morris, had been in theater only a few days and
 was one of the crews to transfer.  I knew all of the members of this crew
 well - they were my friends.
Late the morning of 26 Dec, I went to the officers club for
 breakfast/brunch.  Morris and the other four officers on his crew (1Lt Bob
 Hudson, co-pilot, Capt. Mike LaBeau, radar-navigator/bombardier (RN), 1Lt
 Duane Vavroch, Nav, and Capt. Nutter Wimbrow, electronic warfare officer
 (EW), were there.  We had a great time reminiscing, I, catching up on news
 from home and they, picking us old-timers for tips on flying over Hanoi,
 dodging missiles, etc.  While at the club, we got news from scheduling that
 Morris' crew would be flying that night, but I would not.  Also while at
 the club, we read a Bangkok, Thailand, English language newspaper.  In the
 paper were pictures of BUFF crewmen who had been shot down a couple of days
 before and were POW's in Hanoi.
As we were leaving the club, both Morris and Wimbrow said that they
 were going to stop by the barbershop and get haircuts so they would look
 good on Hanoi TV and in the papers tomorrow.  I bade them so-long and
 good luck and stopped by another table on the way out of the club to chat
 with another friend for a few minutes.
 This was a friend I had met on my second trip through B-52 Combat Crew
 Training at Castle AFB, CA, the summer after I returned to active duty
 (immediately after graduation at North Carolina State University in May
 '71).  This man, LtCol Don Joyner, had also been out of B-52's for several
 years and was returning to the school for re-qualification training, as was
 I.  Col Joyner and I talked at length about our families - how we loved
 them dearly and about how we were supposed to have gone home several days
 before, but had been delayed by the Linebacker II campaign.  We both wished
 each other well and wished for each other to be at home with our families
 soon.
Late that afternoon, as the crew buses were loading and leaving the
 crew quarters area, the co-pilot on Morris' crew, Lt Hudson, ran up to me
 and asked to borrow my recorder cord (a cord that a radio technician had
 made for me to facilitate connecting my personal recorder into the aircraft
 radio system).  I gave the cord to him and off they went to their
 pre-mission briefings and to Hanoi.
Before dawn the next morning, there came a knock on my door.  It was
 the EW on my Kincheloe crew, coming to tell me that Morris' crew had been
 lost over Hanoi and that Col Joyner's bomber had crashed in the jungle just
 off the base.  Both bombers had been hit by SAMs, Morris' going down
 immediately and Col Joyner's making it back to base with 4 engines out on
 one side, making it very hard to fly, especially at low speed.
According to the officer in charge of U-Tapao air traffic control that
 night, LtCol Prentis Ollis, who witnessed the landing attempt by Col
 Joyner's aircraft, they were having problems controlling the aircraft on
 descent.  As they tried to land, the aircraft continued to float wobbly
 about 200 feet above the runway and crashed just beyond the departure end
 of the runway.
Only two of the crew survived.  The co-pilot, 1Lt Bob Hymel, was pulled
 out by another pilot, Capt. Brent Diefenbach, who had landed a short time
 before, was on a crew bus nearby, saw the crash, commandeered a Thai
 vehicle and drove to the crash.  The gunner, wounded in flight, was also
 able to scramble free of the wreckage.  (LtCol (Ret) Bob Hymel was killed
 at his desk in the Pentagon during the terrorist attack on September 11,
 2001.  He was buried at Arlington as a B-52 passed overhead in tribute.)
About midmorning the next day, several of us were sitting outside at
 picnic tables in the crew quarters area, discussing the tragedies of the
 night before, when suddenly we were very glad to see the young gunner from
 Morris' crew get off a bus nearby.  For a few minutes we hoped that the bad
 news of the previous night was untrue.  Our hopes for the rest of his crew
 were quickly dashed, however, when he told us that he had not gone on the
 mission; he had gotten sick after engine start, and another gunner had
 taken his place.
In March '73, the POW's who had survived the B-52 losses were released,
 and I talked at length to the three surviving members of Morris' 

Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - MORRIS' CREW

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Thanks, Wilton.  A fascinating window into a day in the life.  I worked with
a Colonel Mike LaBeau at the F-16 Program Office in 1989-1990 at
Wright-Patt.  He was the Director of Manufacturing and I worked in
Engineering.   This Mike had been a POW so it must have been the same Mike
LaBeau.  Back in those days we delivered over 20 jets a month, not much by
WWII standards but way more than anything built today.

Sctt

 -Original Message-
 From:  WILTON 
 Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 10:38 AM
 
 MORRIS'  CREW
 By Wilton Strickland
 
 Many BUFF crews at U-Tapao had been going to Hanoi almost every night
 since the beginning of the Linebacker II campaign the night of Dec. 18,
'72,
 but because of the long distance involved, crews on Guam had been going
 only about every other night.  On 24 or 25 December, several crews were
 transferred from Guam to U-Tapao, to increase sortie rate at U-Tapao and
to
 relieve some U-Tapao crews.  A crew from my home base, Kincheloe AFB, MI,
 led by Capt. Bob Morris, had been in theater only a few days and  was one
of
 the crews to transfer.  I knew all of the members of this crew well - they
were
 my friends.
 Late the morning of 26 Dec, I went to the officers club for
 breakfast/brunch.  Morris and the other four officers on his crew (1Lt Bob
 Hudson, co-pilot, Capt. Mike LaBeau, radar-navigator/bombardier (RN), 1Lt
 Duane Vavroch, Nav, and Capt. Nutter Wimbrow, electronic warfare officer
 (EW), were there.  We had a great time reminiscing, I, catching up on news
 from home and they, picking us old-timers for tips on flying over Hanoi,
 dodging missiles, etc.  While at the club, we got news from scheduling
that
 Morris' crew would be flying that night, but I would not.  Also while at
the
 club, we read a Bangkok, Thailand, English language newspaper.  In the
 paper were pictures of BUFF crewmen who had been shot down a couple of
 days before and were POW's in Hanoi.
 As we were leaving the club, both Morris and Wimbrow said that they
 were going to stop by the barbershop and get haircuts so they would look
 good on Hanoi TV and in the papers tomorrow.  I bade them so-long and
 good luck
 and stopped by another table on the way out of the club to chat with
 another friend for a few minutes.
 This was a friend I had met on my second trip through B-52 Combat Crew
 Training at Castle AFB, CA, the summer after I returned to active duty
 (immediately after graduation at North Carolina State University in May
'71).
 This man, LtCol Don Joyner, had also been out of B-52's for several years
and
 was returning to the school for re-qualification training, as was I.  Col
Joyner
 and I talked at length about our families - how we loved them dearly and
 about how we were supposed to have gone home several days before, but
 had been delayed by the Linebacker II campaign.  We both wished each
 other well and wished for each other to be at home with our families soon.
 Late that afternoon, as the crew buses were loading and leaving the
crew
 quarters area, the co-pilot on Morris' crew, Lt Hudson, ran up to me and
 asked to borrow my recorder cord (a cord that a radio technician had made
 for me to facilitate connecting my personal recorder into the aircraft
radio
 system).  I gave the cord to him and off they went to their pre-mission
 briefings and to Hanoi.
 Before dawn the next morning, there came a knock on my door.  It was
the
 EW on my Kincheloe crew, coming to tell me that Morris' crew had been lost
 over Hanoi and that Col Joyner's bomber had crashed in the jungle just off
 the base.  Both bombers had been hit by SAMs, Morris' going down
 immediately and Col Joyner's making it back to base with 4 engines out on
 one side, making it very hard to fly, especially at low speed.
 According to the officer in charge of U-Tapao air traffic control that
night,
 LtCol Prentis Ollis, who witnessed the landing attempt by Col Joyner's
 aircraft, they were having problems controlling the aircraft on descent.
As
 they tried to land, the aircraft continued to float wobbly  about 200
feet
 above the runway and crashed just beyond the departure end of the runway.
 Only two of the crew survived.  The co-pilot, 1Lt Bob Hymel, was
pulled out
 by another pilot, Capt. Brent Diefenbach, who had landed a short time
 before, was on a crew bus nearby, saw the crash, commandeered a Thai
 vehicle and drove to the crash.  The gunner, wounded in flight, was also
able
 to scramble free of the wreckage.  (LtCol (Ret) Bob Hymel was killed at
his
 desk in the Pentagon during the terrorist attack on September 11, 2001.
He
 was buried at Arlington as a B-52 passed overhead in tribute.)
 About midmorning the next day, several of us were sitting outside at
picnic
 tables in the crew quarters area, discussing the tragedies of the night
before,
 when suddenly we were very glad to see the young gunner from Morris' crew
 get off a bus nearby.  For a few minutes we hoped that the bad 

Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - MORRIS' CREW

[WILTON via Mercedes]

'Same Mike LaBeau.  They had their choice of assignments after repatriation; 
I think he went to graduate school - maybe AFIT - I'm not sure.  Later, in 
Program Office at Wright-Pat.  Retired as O-6.

'Small world.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com
To: 'WILTON' wilt...@nc.rr.com; 'Mercedes Discussion List' 
mercedes@okiebenz.com

Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 7:50 PM
Subject: RE: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - MORRIS' CREW


Thanks, Wilton.  A fascinating window into a day in the life.  I worked 
with

a Colonel Mike LaBeau at the F-16 Program Office in 1989-1990 at
Wright-Patt.  He was the Director of Manufacturing and I worked in
Engineering.   This Mike had been a POW so it must have been the same Mike
LaBeau.  Back in those days we delivered over 20 jets a month, not much by
WWII standards but way more than anything built today.

Sctt


-Original Message-
From:  WILTON
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 10:38 AM

MORRIS'  CREW
By Wilton Strickland

Many BUFF crews at U-Tapao had been going to Hanoi almost every night
since the beginning of the Linebacker II campaign the night of Dec. 18,

'72,

but because of the long distance involved, crews on Guam had been going
only about every other night.  On 24 or 25 December, several crews were
transferred from Guam to U-Tapao, to increase sortie rate at U-Tapao and

to

relieve some U-Tapao crews.  A crew from my home base, Kincheloe AFB, MI,
led by Capt. Bob Morris, had been in theater only a few days and  was one

of
the crews to transfer.  I knew all of the members of this crew well - 
they

were

my friends.
Late the morning of 26 Dec, I went to the officers club for
breakfast/brunch.  Morris and the other four officers on his crew (1Lt 
Bob

Hudson, co-pilot, Capt. Mike LaBeau, radar-navigator/bombardier (RN), 1Lt
Duane Vavroch, Nav, and Capt. Nutter Wimbrow, electronic warfare officer
(EW), were there.  We had a great time reminiscing, I, catching up on 
news
from home and they, picking us old-timers for tips on flying over 
Hanoi,

dodging missiles, etc.  While at the club, we got news from scheduling

that

Morris' crew would be flying that night, but I would not.  Also while at

the

club, we read a Bangkok, Thailand, English language newspaper.  In the
paper were pictures of BUFF crewmen who had been shot down a couple of
days before and were POW's in Hanoi.
As we were leaving the club, both Morris and Wimbrow said that they
were going to stop by the barbershop and get haircuts so they would look
good on Hanoi TV and in the papers tomorrow.  I bade them so-long and
good luck
and stopped by another table on the way out of the club to chat with
another friend for a few minutes.
This was a friend I had met on my second trip through B-52 Combat Crew
Training at Castle AFB, CA, the summer after I returned to active duty
(immediately after graduation at North Carolina State University in May

'71).

This man, LtCol Don Joyner, had also been out of B-52's for several years

and

was returning to the school for re-qualification training, as was I.  Col

Joyner

and I talked at length about our families - how we loved them dearly and
about how we were supposed to have gone home several days before, but
had been delayed by the Linebacker II campaign.  We both wished each
other well and wished for each other to be at home with our families 
soon.

Late that afternoon, as the crew buses were loading and leaving the

crew

quarters area, the co-pilot on Morris' crew, Lt Hudson, ran up to me and
asked to borrow my recorder cord (a cord that a radio technician had made
for me to facilitate connecting my personal recorder into the aircraft

radio

system).  I gave the cord to him and off they went to their pre-mission
briefings and to Hanoi.
Before dawn the next morning, there came a knock on my door.  It was

the
EW on my Kincheloe crew, coming to tell me that Morris' crew had been 
lost
over Hanoi and that Col Joyner's bomber had crashed in the jungle just 
off

the base.  Both bombers had been hit by SAMs, Morris' going down
immediately and Col Joyner's making it back to base with 4 engines out on
one side, making it very hard to fly, especially at low speed.
According to the officer in charge of U-Tapao air traffic control 
that

night,

LtCol Prentis Ollis, who witnessed the landing attempt by Col Joyner's
aircraft, they were having problems controlling the aircraft on descent.

As

they tried to land, the aircraft continued to float wobbly  about 200

feet

above the runway and crashed just beyond the departure end of the runway.
Only two of the crew survived.  The co-pilot, 1Lt Bob Hymel, was

pulled out

by another pilot, Capt. Brent Diefenbach, who had landed a short time
before, was on a crew bus nearby, saw the crash, commandeered a Thai
vehicle and drove to the crash.  The gunner, wounded in flight, was also

able

to scramble free of the wreckage.  (LtCol

[MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - CHRISTMAS

[WILTON via Mercedes]

CHRISTMAS
By Wilton Strickland

   Christmas day of '72 at U-Tapao was quiet and lonely.  I went to the 
officers club for lunch of turkey and the usual trimmings.  Some of the guys 
at the club had little cotton ditty bags given out by the USO.  After 
lunch, I stopped by the USO Club and got my own bag of small items such as 
candy bars, gum, a few toiletries, note pads, pens, pencils, and many small 
items I don't remember.  In the spirit of Christmas, I gave my bag of 
goodies to our maid for her children later that afternoon.
Also, supposedly in the spirit of Christmas, the BUFFs did not go to 
Hanoi that night.  This worried many of us air crewmen that the break would 
allow the North Vietnamese time to rearm their SAM and AAA sites and be 
ready for us on our next trip after Christmas.  Not many SAMs had been fired 
at us the last two nights and no bomber had been lost since the night of the 
21st.  Sure enough, two were lost the night of the 26th. 



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[MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - BOB HOPE

[WILTON via Mercedes]

BOB HOPE
By Wilton Strickland

   When the night of my planned departure from Thailand came on 23 Dec '72, 
I was scheduled to go to Hanoi again - BUFF crewmen, even those with 
completed tours, were being held for the duration of the Linebacker II 
campaign.  Mission briefing was at 2300 (11:00 PM), but before going to the 
briefing, I went to the Bob Hope Show in an outdoor theater on base.
   During the show, I talked to the crew of the KC-135 tanker from 
Kincheloe, my home base in MI, that had been planned as my flight home. 
They were still flying that night to Guam and on to Michigan the following 
night.  The tanker co-pilot agreed to take as much of my stuff (5 boxes - a 
microwave oven and a motorcycle) from the storage room on Guam as he thought 
reasonable and deliver it to my home on base in Michigan.  When the Bob Hope 
show ended, the tanker crew left to fly to Guam and on to Michigan; I left 
to attend pre-mission briefing for another trip to Hanoi.
   Bob also spoke to us for a few minutes at the pre-mission briefing.  In 
addition to his usual banter of jokes, he conveyed to us messages of 
newly-earned respect and admiration from the fighter pilots at a couple of 
other American bases in Thailand for the way the BUFFs continued to go back 
into the maelstrom of SAMs and AAA.
As luck would have it, my crew was on spare status - engines running 
near the runway and ready to takeoff on a moment's notice in case a primary 
aircraft or crew had to abort the mission on or before takeoff.  We were 
spare number 4, but only three spares were called to go.  After being lucky 
enough to not be needed, we shut down equipment and engines and returned, 
relieved and quietly rejoicing to ourselves, to our rooms.  However, as on 
other nights when we did not make the trip, we each also had a nagging 
feeling of being left out, or missing something and worried about our 
colleagues who were making the trip without us.  The next morning we were 
glad to learn that all BUFFs had returned unscathed.



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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - BOB HOPE

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

Many years ago my cousin (one of identical twins, but she somehow had 
better looks) became some sort of state beauty pageant winner and went 
on to (I think) the Miss USA pageant where she won Miss Congeniality.  
Not sure that got her anything but a ribbon or something, but she and my 
aunt and uncle got to spend an evening with Bob Hope and his wife, 
dinner or something after the event. They all said how nice and genuine 
they both were, and how much fun, they felt like family to them.  I 
think that was the high point of the whole exercise.  He continued to 
send her a Christmas card for many years, I guess until his health got 
bad or something, and always wrote a littler personal note on it.


She is now really fat and not very attractive, go figure, and Bob Hope 
has passed.  I, on the other hand, remain alive and more handsome than ever.


-R


On 10/23/14 11:39 AM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

BOB HOPE
By Wilton Strickland

   When the night of my planned departure from Thailand came on 23 Dec 
'72, I was scheduled to go to Hanoi again - BUFF crewmen, even those 
with completed tours, were being held for the duration of the 
Linebacker II campaign.  Mission briefing was at 2300 (11:00 PM), but 
before going to the briefing, I went to the Bob Hope Show in an 
outdoor theater on base.
   During the show, I talked to the crew of the KC-135 tanker from 
Kincheloe, my home base in MI, that had been planned as my flight 
home. They were still flying that night to Guam and on to Michigan the 
following night.  The tanker co-pilot agreed to take as much of my 
stuff (5 boxes - a microwave oven and a motorcycle) from the storage 
room on Guam as he thought reasonable and deliver it to my home on 
base in Michigan.  When the Bob Hope show ended, the tanker crew left 
to fly to Guam and on to Michigan; I left to attend pre-mission 
briefing for another trip to Hanoi.
   Bob also spoke to us for a few minutes at the pre-mission 
briefing.  In addition to his usual banter of jokes, he conveyed to us 
messages of newly-earned respect and admiration from the fighter 
pilots at a couple of other American bases in Thailand for the way the 
BUFFs continued to go back into the maelstrom of SAMs and AAA.
As luck would have it, my crew was on spare status - engines 
running near the runway and ready to takeoff on a moment's notice in 
case a primary aircraft or crew had to abort the mission on or before 
takeoff.  We were spare number 4, but only three spares were called to 
go.  After being lucky enough to not be needed, we shut down equipment 
and engines and returned, relieved and quietly rejoicing to ourselves, 
to our rooms.  However, as on other nights when we did not make the 
trip, we each also had a nagging feeling of being left out, or missing 
something and worried about our colleagues who were making the trip 
without us.  The next morning we were glad to learn that all BUFFs had 
returned unscathed.



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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - BOB HOPE

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Me, too.  ;)

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - BOB HOPE


Many years ago my cousin (one of identical twins, but she somehow had 
better looks) became some sort of state beauty pageant winner and went on 
to (I think) the Miss USA pageant where she won Miss Congeniality.  Not 
sure that got her anything but a ribbon or something, but she and my aunt 
and uncle got to spend an evening with Bob Hope and his wife, dinner or 
something after the event. They all said how nice and genuine they both 
were, and how much fun, they felt like family to them.  I think that was 
the high point of the whole exercise.  He continued to send her a 
Christmas card for many years, I guess until his health got bad or 
something, and always wrote a littler personal note on it.


She is now really fat and not very attractive, go figure, and Bob Hope has 
passed.  I, on the other hand, remain alive and more handsome than ever.


-R


On 10/23/14 11:39 AM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

BOB HOPE
By Wilton Strickland

   When the night of my planned departure from Thailand came on 23 Dec 
'72, I was scheduled to go to Hanoi again - BUFF crewmen, even those with 
completed tours, were being held for the duration of the Linebacker II 
campaign.  Mission briefing was at 2300 (11:00 PM), but before going to 
the briefing, I went to the Bob Hope Show in an outdoor theater on base.
   During the show, I talked to the crew of the KC-135 tanker from 
Kincheloe, my home base in MI, that had been planned as my flight home. 
They were still flying that night to Guam and on to Michigan the 
following night.  The tanker co-pilot agreed to take as much of my stuff 
(5 boxes - a microwave oven and a motorcycle) from the storage room on 
Guam as he thought reasonable and deliver it to my home on base in 
Michigan.  When the Bob Hope show ended, the tanker crew left to fly to 
Guam and on to Michigan; I left to attend pre-mission briefing for 
another trip to Hanoi.
   Bob also spoke to us for a few minutes at the pre-mission briefing. 
In addition to his usual banter of jokes, he conveyed to us messages of 
newly-earned respect and admiration from the fighter pilots at a couple 
of other American bases in Thailand for the way the BUFFs continued to go 
back into the maelstrom of SAMs and AAA.
As luck would have it, my crew was on spare status - engines running 
near the runway and ready to takeoff on a moment's notice in case a 
primary aircraft or crew had to abort the mission on or before takeoff. 
We were spare number 4, but only three spares were called to go.  After 
being lucky enough to not be needed, we shut down equipment and engines 
and returned, relieved and quietly rejoicing to ourselves, to our rooms. 
However, as on other nights when we did not make the trip, we each also 
had a nagging feeling of being left out, or missing something and worried 
about our colleagues who were making the trip without us.  The next 
morning we were glad to learn that all BUFFs had returned unscathed.



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[MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - CASUALTY AFFAIRS

[WILTON via Mercedes]

CASUALTY AFFAIRS
By Wilton Strickland

   Almost every afternoon and/or early evening during the Linebacker II 
campaign, as we boarded buses and departed the crew quarters area to go to 
pre-mission briefings for additional trips to Hanoi, we observed casualty 
affairs crews gathering and packing personal effects of crewmen who had 
failed to return the night before into large, clear plastic bags.  This made 
it especially hard to maintain a can't-happen-to-me attitude.  None of us 
ever mentioned it to each other, however, as we returned night after night 
to the gauntlet of SAM's and AAA. 



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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - CASUALTY AFFAIRS

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Bravery in battle is defined as  You are the only one who knows you've
crapped your pants.

The daily event you describe, the collection of personal effects, is one
that drove home the endless paradox of going to war. Some of which I've
never completely reconciled, likely never will. I'm not sure it's possible
to explain to anyone what it takes to go back into battle day after day.
Unless the other person has been there, then it's not necessary.

ATTABOY, welcome home!

Grant...

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:23 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 CASUALTY AFFAIRS
 By Wilton Strickland

Almost every afternoon and/or early evening during the Linebacker II
 campaign, as we boarded buses and departed the crew quarters area to go to
 pre-mission briefings for additional trips to Hanoi, we observed casualty
 affairs crews gathering and packing personal effects of crewmen who had
 failed to return the night before into large, clear plastic bags.  This
 made it especially hard to maintain a can't-happen-to-me attitude.  None
 of us ever mentioned it to each other, however, as we returned night after
 night to the gauntlet of SAM's and AAA.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - THE TACTICS

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Thanks Wilton - great leadership (and life) lessons abound!

-Max
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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - THE TACTICS

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

Another lesson in question authority . . .


I'd say 'no prior planning survives initial contact with the enemy', and once 
the first SAM is in the air go with what works best.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - THE TACTICS

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Amen.

Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - THE TACTICS



OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

Another lesson in question authority . . .


I'd say 'no prior planning survives initial contact with the enemy', and 
once the first SAM is in the air go with what works best.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - THE TACTICS

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Thanks.

Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: OK Don okd...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com

Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - THE TACTICS



Another lesson, by demonstration, that one of the leading causes of death
in battle is stupidity by leadership.

Personally, I'm very glad Wilton survived to tell the story, and rise in
respect to those who did not.


On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 8:57 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com

wrote:


Another lesson in question authority . . .

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:33 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Thanks Wilton!

 Greg

 -Original Message-
 From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
WILTON
 via Mercedes
 Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 7:09 PM
 To: mercedes list; WILTON
 Subject: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - THE TACTICS

 THE  TACTICS
 By Wilton Strickland

 By 22 Dec '72, for four nights in a row, nearly 100 B-52's each 
 night

 flew in-trail (one behind the other) at 35,000 to 36,000 feet at 450
knots
 true airspeed (TAS) (with a tailwind of about 100 knots) to an initial
 point
 (IP) 90 nautical miles northwest of Hanoi where they accelerated to 470
 knots and turned southeast and split off to go their respective targets
in
 and around Hanoi.  The plan also required straight and level flight (no
 evasive maneuvers) from IP to target, turn west, immediately decelerate
to
 450 knots after release and withdraw against a headwind of nearly 120
 knots.

 The aircraft were grouped into cells of three each with spacing of 15
 seconds between each aircraft within the cell and 1 minute between 
 cells.

 This gave the enemy air defense system plenty of time to track and
fire
 on each aircraft as it came within range and get ready for the next 
 one.
 Long before we got into the target area, the enemy already knew our 
 exact

 altitude, speed, spacing and approach route - a large part of their
 acquisition and tracking problem had already been solved for them by
 American staff planners.  During withdrawal, the combination of
 deceleration
 to 450 knots, the turn into the 120-knot headwind and evasive maneuvers
 (zigzagging) to evade the many SAMs fired at us, resulted in a straight
 line
 ground speed of significantly less than 300 knots, drastically 
 increasing

 our exposure time.  Several B-52's were being shot down every night,
except
 the second night.  Three had been lost on the 18th, six on the 20th, 
 and

 two
 on the 21st.
 North Vietnamese gunners later confirmed that it was relatively 
 easy

to
 acquire their targets by just looking in the same area as the preceding
one
 and waiting.  Because an open bomb bay full of iron bombs reflects more
 radar energy than a closed bay, they also could get a better picture of
us
 when bomb bay doors were opened, usually at 60 seconds before release
 (time-to-go - TG).  Another more vulnerable time for the BUFF was in 
 the
 post-release turn, a procedure developed by Paul Tibbets during WW II 
 to

 enhance crew survival after a nuclear weapon release by placing the
 airplane
 as far as possible from the detonation with the airplane straight and
level
 and tail to the burst at shockwave arrival and is completely irrelevant
in
 conventional bombing - there's no shockwave reaching our altitude.  The
 turn
 gave a special advantage to the enemy, though, by exposing a much 
 larger
 radar cross-section, and the aircraft's electronic counter measures 
 beam

 patterns were shifted up and away to the side in the turn, allowing the
 defenders to better paint their targets - the defenders later said 
 that
 returns on their scopes tended to blossom when we opened the doors 
 and

 when we made the post-release turn.
 We air crewmen were damned mad about the incompetent planning.  I 
 was

 one of several crewmen who questioned and protested such tactics almost
 immediately.  I stood during the pre-mission briefing at U-Tapao on the
 second night of the campaign and asked, Who is planning such stupid
 tactics
 as this, and why?
 The answer given was, The planning is being done at Strategic Air
 Command (SAC) Headquarters in Nebraska, and the common route and 
 altitude

 are used for 'ease of planning.'
 My reply to this was to suggest that the staff weenies come and 
 fly

 some of these missions to get some ideas about how to develop better
 tactics.  The North Vietnamese are using our common route and 
 altitude,

 our
 in-trail formation, the long open-door time, the post-release turn and
our
 slow withdrawal for 'ease of tracking and shoot-down.'  (This was 
 later

 confirmed by North Vietnamese gunners.)
 Our 17th Air Division Commander, B/G Glenn Sullivan, sitting two 
 rows

 directly in front of me on the front row turned and looked up at me
during
 my question

[MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - THE TACTICS

[WILTON via Mercedes]

THE  TACTICS
By Wilton Strickland

   By 22 Dec '72, for four nights in a row, nearly 100 B-52's each night 
flew in-trail (one behind the other) at 35,000 to 36,000 feet at 450 knots 
true airspeed (TAS) (with a tailwind of about 100 knots) to an initial point 
(IP) 90 nautical miles northwest of Hanoi where they accelerated to 470 
knots and turned southeast and split off to go their respective targets in 
and around Hanoi.  The plan also required straight and level flight (no 
evasive maneuvers) from IP to target, turn west, immediately decelerate to 
450 knots after release and withdraw against a headwind of nearly 120 knots. 
The aircraft were grouped into cells of three each with spacing of 15 
seconds between each aircraft within the cell and 1 minute between cells.
   This gave the enemy air defense system plenty of time to track and fire 
on each aircraft as it came within range and get ready for the next one. 
Long before we got into the target area, the enemy already knew our exact 
altitude, speed, spacing and approach route - a large part of their 
acquisition and tracking problem had already been solved for them by 
American staff planners.  During withdrawal, the combination of deceleration 
to 450 knots, the turn into the 120-knot headwind and evasive maneuvers 
(zigzagging) to evade the many SAMs fired at us, resulted in a straight line 
ground speed of significantly less than 300 knots, drastically increasing 
our exposure time.  Several B-52's were being shot down every night, except 
the second night.  Three had been lost on the 18th, six on the 20th, and two 
on the 21st.
   North Vietnamese gunners later confirmed that it was relatively easy to 
acquire their targets by just looking in the same area as the preceding one 
and waiting.  Because an open bomb bay full of iron bombs reflects more 
radar energy than a closed bay, they also could get a better picture of us 
when bomb bay doors were opened, usually at 60 seconds before release 
(time-to-go - TG).  Another more vulnerable time for the BUFF was in the 
post-release turn, a procedure developed by Paul Tibbets during WW II to 
enhance crew survival after a nuclear weapon release by placing the airplane 
as far as possible from the detonation with the airplane straight and level 
and tail to the burst at shockwave arrival and is completely irrelevant in 
conventional bombing - there's no shockwave reaching our altitude.  The turn 
gave a special advantage to the enemy, though, by exposing a much larger 
radar cross-section, and the aircraft's electronic counter measures beam 
patterns were shifted up and away to the side in the turn, allowing the 
defenders to better paint their targets - the defenders later said that 
returns on their scopes tended to blossom when we opened the doors and 
when we made the post-release turn.
   We air crewmen were damned mad about the incompetent planning.  I was 
one of several crewmen who questioned and protested such tactics almost 
immediately.  I stood during the pre-mission briefing at U-Tapao on the 
second night of the campaign and asked, Who is planning such stupid tactics 
as this, and why?
   The answer given was, The planning is being done at Strategic Air 
Command (SAC) Headquarters in Nebraska, and the common route and altitude 
are used for 'ease of planning.'
   My reply to this was to suggest that the staff weenies come and fly 
some of these missions to get some ideas about how to develop better 
tactics.  The North Vietnamese are using our common route and altitude, our 
in-trail formation, the long open-door time, the post-release turn and our 
slow withdrawal for 'ease of tracking and shoot-down.'  (This was later 
confirmed by North Vietnamese gunners.)
   Our 17th Air Division Commander, B/G Glenn Sullivan, sitting two rows 
directly in front of me on the front row turned and looked up at me during 
my question and comments.  He said nothing, but I could tell that he agreed 
with me.
   I adamantly maintained that we should fly as fast as possible from the 
initial point (IP) through withdrawal, do evasive maneuvers as necessary 
when fired upon if we could be back to straight and level at release, 
approach the target from different directions and altitudes, open the doors 
as late as possible, eliminate the post-release turn and withdraw to the 
east over the Tonkin Gulf, taking advantage of the 100 to 120-knot tailwind 
to get the Hell out of there ASAP.
   Most of us who protested did so by questioning bad tactics and offering 
alternatives.  Protests by some of the crewmen became much more active, 
however - one pilot refused to fly, was later court-martialed and 
discharged.
After flying the original in-trail tactics dictated by the weenies in 
Nebraska for the first several nights and losing bombers to enemy gunners 
almost every night, B/G Sullivan, went around/over his superiors on Guam, 
contacted the SAC Commander-in-Chief (CINCSAC) directly and persuaded him to 

Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - THE TACTICS

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

Thanks Wilton!

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON
via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 7:09 PM
To: mercedes list; WILTON
Subject: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - THE TACTICS

THE  TACTICS
By Wilton Strickland

By 22 Dec '72, for four nights in a row, nearly 100 B-52's each night
flew in-trail (one behind the other) at 35,000 to 36,000 feet at 450 knots
true airspeed (TAS) (with a tailwind of about 100 knots) to an initial point
(IP) 90 nautical miles northwest of Hanoi where they accelerated to 470
knots and turned southeast and split off to go their respective targets in
and around Hanoi.  The plan also required straight and level flight (no
evasive maneuvers) from IP to target, turn west, immediately decelerate to
450 knots after release and withdraw against a headwind of nearly 120 knots.

The aircraft were grouped into cells of three each with spacing of 15
seconds between each aircraft within the cell and 1 minute between cells.
This gave the enemy air defense system plenty of time to track and fire
on each aircraft as it came within range and get ready for the next one. 
Long before we got into the target area, the enemy already knew our exact
altitude, speed, spacing and approach route - a large part of their
acquisition and tracking problem had already been solved for them by
American staff planners.  During withdrawal, the combination of deceleration
to 450 knots, the turn into the 120-knot headwind and evasive maneuvers
(zigzagging) to evade the many SAMs fired at us, resulted in a straight line
ground speed of significantly less than 300 knots, drastically increasing
our exposure time.  Several B-52's were being shot down every night, except
the second night.  Three had been lost on the 18th, six on the 20th, and two
on the 21st.
North Vietnamese gunners later confirmed that it was relatively easy to
acquire their targets by just looking in the same area as the preceding one
and waiting.  Because an open bomb bay full of iron bombs reflects more
radar energy than a closed bay, they also could get a better picture of us
when bomb bay doors were opened, usually at 60 seconds before release
(time-to-go - TG).  Another more vulnerable time for the BUFF was in the
post-release turn, a procedure developed by Paul Tibbets during WW II to
enhance crew survival after a nuclear weapon release by placing the airplane
as far as possible from the detonation with the airplane straight and level
and tail to the burst at shockwave arrival and is completely irrelevant in
conventional bombing - there's no shockwave reaching our altitude.  The turn
gave a special advantage to the enemy, though, by exposing a much larger
radar cross-section, and the aircraft's electronic counter measures beam
patterns were shifted up and away to the side in the turn, allowing the
defenders to better paint their targets - the defenders later said that
returns on their scopes tended to blossom when we opened the doors and
when we made the post-release turn.
We air crewmen were damned mad about the incompetent planning.  I was
one of several crewmen who questioned and protested such tactics almost
immediately.  I stood during the pre-mission briefing at U-Tapao on the
second night of the campaign and asked, Who is planning such stupid tactics
as this, and why?
The answer given was, The planning is being done at Strategic Air
Command (SAC) Headquarters in Nebraska, and the common route and altitude
are used for 'ease of planning.'
My reply to this was to suggest that the staff weenies come and fly
some of these missions to get some ideas about how to develop better
tactics.  The North Vietnamese are using our common route and altitude, our
in-trail formation, the long open-door time, the post-release turn and our
slow withdrawal for 'ease of tracking and shoot-down.'  (This was later
confirmed by North Vietnamese gunners.)
Our 17th Air Division Commander, B/G Glenn Sullivan, sitting two rows
directly in front of me on the front row turned and looked up at me during
my question and comments.  He said nothing, but I could tell that he agreed
with me.
I adamantly maintained that we should fly as fast as possible from the
initial point (IP) through withdrawal, do evasive maneuvers as necessary
when fired upon if we could be back to straight and level at release,
approach the target from different directions and altitudes, open the doors
as late as possible, eliminate the post-release turn and withdraw to the
east over the Tonkin Gulf, taking advantage of the 100 to 120-knot tailwind
to get the Hell out of there ASAP.
Most of us who protested did so by questioning bad tactics and offering
alternatives.  Protests by some of the crewmen became much more active,
however - one pilot refused to fly, was later court-martialed and
discharged.
After flying the original in-trail tactics dictated by the weenies in
Nebraska

Re: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - THE TACTICS

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Another lesson, by demonstration, that one of the leading causes of death
in battle is stupidity by leadership.

Personally, I'm very glad Wilton survived to tell the story, and rise in
respect to those who did not.


On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 8:57 PM, OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 Another lesson in question authority . . .

 On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:33 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  Thanks Wilton!
 
  Greg
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
 WILTON
  via Mercedes
  Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 7:09 PM
  To: mercedes list; WILTON
  Subject: [MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - THE TACTICS
 
  THE  TACTICS
  By Wilton Strickland
 
  By 22 Dec '72, for four nights in a row, nearly 100 B-52's each night
  flew in-trail (one behind the other) at 35,000 to 36,000 feet at 450
 knots
  true airspeed (TAS) (with a tailwind of about 100 knots) to an initial
  point
  (IP) 90 nautical miles northwest of Hanoi where they accelerated to 470
  knots and turned southeast and split off to go their respective targets
 in
  and around Hanoi.  The plan also required straight and level flight (no
  evasive maneuvers) from IP to target, turn west, immediately decelerate
 to
  450 knots after release and withdraw against a headwind of nearly 120
  knots.
 
  The aircraft were grouped into cells of three each with spacing of 15
  seconds between each aircraft within the cell and 1 minute between cells.
  This gave the enemy air defense system plenty of time to track and
 fire
  on each aircraft as it came within range and get ready for the next one.
  Long before we got into the target area, the enemy already knew our exact
  altitude, speed, spacing and approach route - a large part of their
  acquisition and tracking problem had already been solved for them by
  American staff planners.  During withdrawal, the combination of
  deceleration
  to 450 knots, the turn into the 120-knot headwind and evasive maneuvers
  (zigzagging) to evade the many SAMs fired at us, resulted in a straight
  line
  ground speed of significantly less than 300 knots, drastically increasing
  our exposure time.  Several B-52's were being shot down every night,
 except
  the second night.  Three had been lost on the 18th, six on the 20th, and
  two
  on the 21st.
  North Vietnamese gunners later confirmed that it was relatively easy
 to
  acquire their targets by just looking in the same area as the preceding
 one
  and waiting.  Because an open bomb bay full of iron bombs reflects more
  radar energy than a closed bay, they also could get a better picture of
 us
  when bomb bay doors were opened, usually at 60 seconds before release
  (time-to-go - TG).  Another more vulnerable time for the BUFF was in the
  post-release turn, a procedure developed by Paul Tibbets during WW II to
  enhance crew survival after a nuclear weapon release by placing the
  airplane
  as far as possible from the detonation with the airplane straight and
 level
  and tail to the burst at shockwave arrival and is completely irrelevant
 in
  conventional bombing - there's no shockwave reaching our altitude.  The
  turn
  gave a special advantage to the enemy, though, by exposing a much larger
  radar cross-section, and the aircraft's electronic counter measures beam
  patterns were shifted up and away to the side in the turn, allowing the
  defenders to better paint their targets - the defenders later said that
  returns on their scopes tended to blossom when we opened the doors and
  when we made the post-release turn.
  We air crewmen were damned mad about the incompetent planning.  I was
  one of several crewmen who questioned and protested such tactics almost
  immediately.  I stood during the pre-mission briefing at U-Tapao on the
  second night of the campaign and asked, Who is planning such stupid
  tactics
  as this, and why?
  The answer given was, The planning is being done at Strategic Air
  Command (SAC) Headquarters in Nebraska, and the common route and altitude
  are used for 'ease of planning.'
  My reply to this was to suggest that the staff weenies come and fly
  some of these missions to get some ideas about how to develop better
  tactics.  The North Vietnamese are using our common route and altitude,
  our
  in-trail formation, the long open-door time, the post-release turn and
 our
  slow withdrawal for 'ease of tracking and shoot-down.'  (This was later
  confirmed by North Vietnamese gunners.)
  Our 17th Air Division Commander, B/G Glenn Sullivan, sitting two rows
  directly in front of me on the front row turned and looked up at me
 during
  my question and comments.  He said nothing, but I could tell that he
 agreed
  with me.
  I adamantly maintained that we should fly as fast as possible from
 the
  initial point (IP) through withdrawal, do evasive maneuvers as necessary
  when fired upon

[MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - HAIPHONG

[WILTON via Mercedes]

HAIPHONG
By Wilton Strickland

   My target the night of 22 Dec '72 was the petroleum refinery and storage 
facility at the port of Haiphong.  Approach was from the South on a heading 
of about 360°; altitude was 36,000 feet; true airspeed 470 knots.
We had been briefed to be careful not to hit third-country ships at the 
docks near the refinery.  During the entire bomb run, I observed via RADAR 
several ships sitting at the docks immediately north of the refinery and 
took extra care not to drop long.
   Immediately after release, we tried to make a right turn to withdraw 
over the Gulf of Tonkin and head back south.   Several SAM's fired at us in 
the turn caused us to take evasive maneuvers that made us fall 28 nautical 
miles behind the other two BUFFs in our cell.  This left us hanging out 
there by ourselves without electronic countermeasures (ECM) mutual support 
from the other aircraft.  We applied maximum power  airspeed to rejoin our 
cell as we continued to be fired upon by several missile batteries.  We were 
lucky again to have been missed several times.
At the pre-mission briefing on the 23rd, I saw post-strike photos of 
the Haiphong target area.  I could not find as much as a 50-gallon 
drum/barrel in the photos not destroyed, and no ships were sitting at the 
docks - third country shipping had evidently gotten the message, also, that 
we were at last getting serious about this war. 



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[MBZ] OT - another non-political B-52 tale - RAIL YARD

[WILTON via Mercedes]

RAIL YARD 45 NM SW HANOI
By Wilton Strickland

   The night of 21 Dec '72, my target was a major rail transshipment yard 
about 45 nautical miles southwest of Hanoi.  SAM and anti-aircraft artillery 
(AAA) activity in this area was relatively light.  In fact, this mission was 
so routine that I remember little about it, and my recording of it has been 
destroyed (recorded over by a teenage son 35 years ago, I suspect).  This 
night was anything but routine for many of the other BUFFs, however.  Two 
were lost to SAM's.
   During the withdrawal, I heard John Graham, co-pilot on my Kincheloe 
crew, flying as a substitute with another crew, report to Red Crown, the 
Navy ship monitoring all air traffic in North Vietnam, We just lost Blue 
02.  He blew up right in front of me.  (Destroyed by a SAM.)
   During the latter stages of our withdrawal, the gunner reported a 
bandit (fighter) approaching us rapidly from the rear.  Enemy fighters had 
joined several formations of B-52's, possibly to aid ground defenses in 
tracking, and B-52 gunners had shot down two of them.  Our gunner was locked 
on the fighter approaching us and was prepared to fire.  Just as the fighter 
came within range, however, we heard a frantic call on the radio, Your 
bandit is friendly; your bandit is friendly!
   Gunner replied, Okay, you were about to 'get' it, you'd better speak up 
a little sooner!  The American F-4 quickly departed to do business 
elsewhere. 



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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[Tim C]

I took German in 1999, and the instructor was still going on about this.
 At that point the man had been dead for 35 YEARS!  Is there no statute of
limitations on malapropisms?

Best,
Tim
kein Berliner


On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:09 PM, Rich Thomas 
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

 I am a little jelly donut!

 --R


 On 1/16/13 8:42 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 Good catch.  We of a certain vintage remember JFK's charming
 pronunciation...

 On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Rich Thomas
 richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.netrichthomas79td...@constructivity.net
 wrote:

 Yer not supposed to go to Cuber, and that is not where I am going.

 --R

 On 1/16/13 5:09 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 Cuber?

 On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Rich Thomas
 richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.netrichthomas79td...@constructivity.net
 wrote:

 No she and her husband are here visiting (and loving it).  G-d forbid I
 be
 in Boston, it is 75F/sunny here today and disastrous near Boston.  I am
 headed further south tomorrow, about as far as one can go.

 --R

 On 1/16/13 4:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 Wow - does that mean you're in Boston now?

 On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Rich Thomas
 richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.netrichthomas79td...@constructivity.net
 wrote:

 I had dinner last night with the woman who put together the binders
 full
 of
 women for Mittens when he was guvnah of Mass.

 --R


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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[John Reames]

Malapropisms have a statute of limitations that is driven by events and not 
merely by the passage of time. 

I believe it is that everyone keeps hearing about it until someone of more 
import commits an equally egregious crime against the same language or until 
someone of some import commits a more egregious crime against the same language.

--
John W Reames
jream...@verizon.net
Home: +14106646986
Mobile: +14437915905

On Jan 17, 2013, at 11:25, Tim C bb...@crone.us wrote:

 I took German in 1999, and the instructor was still going on about this.
 At that point the man had been dead for 35 YEARS!  Is there no statute of
 limitations on malapropisms?
 
 Best,
 Tim
 kein Berliner
 
 
 On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:09 PM, Rich Thomas 
 richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:
 
 I am a little jelly donut!
 
 --R
 
 
 On 1/16/13 8:42 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
 
 Good catch.  We of a certain vintage remember JFK's charming
 pronunciation...
 
 On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Rich Thomas
 richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.netrichthomas79td...@constructivity.net
 wrote:
 
 Yer not supposed to go to Cuber, and that is not where I am going.
 
 --R
 
 On 1/16/13 5:09 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
 
 Cuber?
 
 On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Rich Thomas
 richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.netrichthomas79td...@constructivity.net
 wrote:
 
 No she and her husband are here visiting (and loving it).  G-d forbid I
 be
 in Boston, it is 75F/sunny here today and disastrous near Boston.  I am
 headed further south tomorrow, about as far as one can go.
 
 --R
 
 On 1/16/13 4:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
 
 Wow - does that mean you're in Boston now?
 
 On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Rich Thomas
 richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.netrichthomas79td...@constructivity.net
 wrote:
 
 I had dinner last night with the woman who put together the binders
 full
 of
 women for Mittens when he was guvnah of Mass.
 
 --R
 
 
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[MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[Rich Thomas]

I had dinner last night with the woman who put together the binders 
full of women for Mittens when he was guvnah of Mass.


--R


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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[WILTON]

So, was she in a bind er?  ;)

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:50 PM
Subject: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR


I had dinner last night with the woman who put together the binders 
full of women for Mittens when he was guvnah of Mass.


--R


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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[Max Dillon]

Cool, so any tips for those of us planning to run for office next election 
cycle?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

I had dinner last night with the woman who put together the binders 
full of women for Mittens when he was guvnah of Mass.

--R


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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[WILTON]

Don't say binders full of women.  ;)

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR


Cool, so any tips for those of us planning to run for office next election 
cycle?

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:


I had dinner last night with the woman who put together the binders
full of women for Mittens when he was guvnah of Mass.

--R


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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[Tim C]

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote:

 Cool, so any tips for those of us planning to run for office next election
 cycle?


Return to banned, Chris probably has some suggestions.

Oh, and never let the voting public know you are a member. :)

-Tim
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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[Andrew Strasfogel]

Wow - does that mean you're in Boston now?

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Rich Thomas
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:
 I had dinner last night with the woman who put together the binders full of
 women for Mittens when he was guvnah of Mass.

 --R


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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[Rich Thomas]

No she and her husband are here visiting (and loving it).  G-d forbid I 
be in Boston, it is 75F/sunny here today and disastrous near Boston.  I 
am headed further south tomorrow, about as far as one can go.


--R

On 1/16/13 4:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

Wow - does that mean you're in Boston now?

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Rich Thomas
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

I had dinner last night with the woman who put together the binders full of
women for Mittens when he was guvnah of Mass.

--R


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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[Andrew Strasfogel]

Cuber?

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Rich Thomas
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:
 No she and her husband are here visiting (and loving it).  G-d forbid I be
 in Boston, it is 75F/sunny here today and disastrous near Boston.  I am
 headed further south tomorrow, about as far as one can go.

 --R

 On 1/16/13 4:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 Wow - does that mean you're in Boston now?

 On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Rich Thomas
 richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

 I had dinner last night with the woman who put together the binders full
 of
 women for Mittens when he was guvnah of Mass.

 --R


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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[WILTON]

Key West?

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR


No she and her husband are here visiting (and loving it).  G-d forbid I be 
in Boston, it is 75F/sunny here today and disastrous near Boston.  I am 
headed further south tomorrow, about as far as one can go.


--R

On 1/16/13 4:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

Wow - does that mean you're in Boston now?

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Rich Thomas
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:
I had dinner last night with the woman who put together the binders 
full of

women for Mittens when he was guvnah of Mass.

--R


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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[Max Dillon]

Brownsville?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

Cuber?

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Rich Thomas
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:
 No she and her husband are here visiting (and loving it).  G-d forbid
I be
 in Boston, it is 75F/sunny here today and disastrous near Boston.  I
am
 headed further south tomorrow, about as far as one can go.

 --R

 On 1/16/13 4:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 Wow - does that mean you're in Boston now?

 On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Rich Thomas
 richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

 I had dinner last night with the woman who put together the
binders full
 of
 women for Mittens when he was guvnah of Mass.

 --R


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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[Rich Thomas]

Yer not supposed to go to Cuber, and that is not where I am going.

--R

On 1/16/13 5:09 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

Cuber?

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Rich Thomas
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

No she and her husband are here visiting (and loving it).  G-d forbid I be
in Boston, it is 75F/sunny here today and disastrous near Boston.  I am
headed further south tomorrow, about as far as one can go.

--R

On 1/16/13 4:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

Wow - does that mean you're in Boston now?

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Rich Thomas
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

I had dinner last night with the woman who put together the binders full
of
women for Mittens when he was guvnah of Mass.

--R


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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[Mitch Haley]

Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

Cuber?


I hear Homestead looks about the same.

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Re: [MBZ] OT might be political and scary DBR

[Dan Penoff]

Liberty City.

Dan


On Jan 16, 2013, at 7:24 PM, Mitch Haley wrote:

 Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
 Cuber?
 
 I hear Homestead looks about the same.
 
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