Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R pictures

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

yes


Larry Turner via Mercedes 
January 5, 2020 at 6:18 AM
Are these photo's of "my" old 300?
LarryT
06 E350



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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R pictures

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

Are these photo's of "my" old 300?
LarryT
06 E350

On 12/21/2019 11:59 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Here are shots of the rust on the subframe.   They also show the 
condition of some of the  links. 189 shows a piece of spring in the 
bottom of the spring pocket.  188 shows the flakes on one link mount. 
this is the subframe rust that is of most concern.  I think it will be 
ok, but since I have access to a couple of unrusted subframes, I think 
I will use one of them.   If anyone wants to see hi-res versions of 
the pictures, let me know and I can send them offlist.


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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

THat probably explains the rustiness.  Bahstun salt.


Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 23, 2019 at 3:34 PM
I believe you're talking about the 91 30 you got from me?  If so, I 
bought it in Richmond and my research found it had lived its life in 
Ma before coming to Va, probably via an auction.


Larry



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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

Don't forget the new hoses in the trunk ;-)

On 12/20/2019 1:27 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:

Karl or others:

Since Karl has recently done this, I think he has most of the answers.

 I am fixin ta take out the rear subframe of the 124 2.5.   As I 
recall, I have to take out the exhaust, driveshaft rear flex, sway bar 
links, shocks, brake calipers, ABS Sensor in Diff., parking brake 
cables, and of course, the 4 main subframe bolts.  Am I missing anything?


As I recall, the diff has 2 big bolts at the back (10mm allen I think) 
and 2 smaller bolts at the front.   I think these are all into the 
subframe.  Is that right?


What is the best way to lower the unit?   I hope I can balance it on 
the floor jack while I roll it out from under.


More important, what is the best way to raise the subframe  back up 
into position?  Will I need stacks of blocks or an extra person to 
help balance it on the jack as it goes up?


Need to replace the rear brake lines, brake hoses, possibly calipers, 
Rt wheel bearing, parking brake cables,  weld up some rusted holes in 
the body, patch others, derust, clean and paint subframe, and probably 
replace the links.   May need to replace the park brake shoes while 
there.   (YUK)


It has no antislip, so single brake line to the rear, and a T.   I 
only need to replace the lines from the T out, and the hoses.



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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

I believe you're talking about the 91 30 you got from me?  If so, I 
bought it in Richmond and my research found it had lived its life in Ma 
before coming to Va, probably via an auction.


Larry

On 12/20/2019 2:24 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:



LR subframe mount appears to be welded to the body by corrosion of 
AL-FE.   Soaking it now.   Tried beating with no effect.   tried bar, 
but that bends the frame tube.   Flame wrench is not an option because 
I don't have one.   Besides, burning rubber stinks and leaves carbon 
black on everything.


Subrame mount has aluminum center for the bolt, and the body stud is 
steel.


Any earlier MB would have rotted away.   This one just has a few 
cancer spots, but the nuts on the brake lines and hoses are corroded 
to 2-3 mm less OD than original.    Looks now like I should probably 
replace all or part of the brake line to the ABS unit too.


My Dallas 124 is much nicer to work on.  even after 10 years or so in 
IA.  No rust.


Max, if your subframe is not rusty, I may take you up on that

The other 124 I got out of VA 15 yrs ago or so was not rusty. (300TE)

Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
December 20, 2019 at 12:44 PM
Diff is only connected to subframe. I think you've hit all the right
points.

I've got a spare subframe (no diff or axles) you can have if you want to
drag it away from SC.

-
Max
Charleston SC



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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R pictures

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

My thought were essentially the same.  Wire wheel, paint, until I saw 
what is in 188.   I don't think anything would break or come loose.  The 
scale is just in a gusset and the metal between the hole and the 
subframe is passable. If the only other choice was to buy a new 
subframe, I'd reuse this one. But since a good subframe is available, 
for nickels on the $, I think it is best to get a better subframe.



I've probably driven rustier cars than most of you.   It is why I 
generally seek out a rustfree sample to start with.  The band from 
Mallas to hotlanta is a good place to hunt for cars.   2 of my cars were 
sold new at Autohaus Dallas.   One is quite rusty now, having been 
driven too many winters in Awa.



Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
December 22, 2019 at 6:53 AM
I'm thinking "Scotchbrite rust and paint remover wheel, POR-15, paint, 
done" until I get to #188.

188 would bother me if it were mine.
Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R pictures

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

I have had the front springs break on the TE, replaced them a few years back.  
It was driven on the beach at some point -- tiny sea shells in the covers on 
the links :(.

Up in Canada broken coil springs were common, along with severe body rot.

I definitely would not use that subframe if you have a better one, it's pretty 
far gone.  None mine ever got more than some surface rust.



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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R pictures

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I'm thinking "Scotchbrite rust and paint remover wheel, POR-15, paint, done" 
until I get to #188.
188 would bother me if it were mine. 
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Karl,

I have looked on several of the Stealer parts sites, and it appears MB 
has made a mess of them.   When I click on the link for "Brake" I get a 
diagram of the steering column, etc.  Under parking brake cable, there 
is a diagram that shows the "dust shield" but no way to get a part 
number.  For the front, there is a diagram and part numbers for "dust 
shield."   Maybe if someone has access to the real epc, they can find a 
part number for the rear brake backing plates or "dust shield." 
WDBEB28D1MB364746



Karl Wittnebel 
December 21, 2019 at 12:18 PM
I have 2 new backing plates but I think they are a 210 part number. 
Let me know what number you need and I will cross check it.




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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Yes, I need the diff mounts for the rear of the diff.   I intend to 
order the link kit from FCP.



Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
December 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM
I have some h and r lowering springs if you want to slam it. :-). I went
with OE sportline stuff and a feind swaybar yada yada.

Pretty sure I have some diff bushings if you want them. V8 bushings are
larger and I bought some small ones by mistake.

The lemforder link kit might be this one:

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4=202740612550=33583=1=0=1565460574000=0=1

They used the same links for the 201 and 210 cars I believe. FCP euro 
has a

similar kit also.



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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

I have some h and r lowering springs if you want to slam it. :-). I went
with OE sportline stuff and a feind swaybar yada yada.

Pretty sure I have some diff bushings if you want them. V8 bushings are
larger and I bought some small ones by mistake.

The lemforder link kit might be this one:

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4=202740612550=33583=1=0=1565460574000=0=1

They used the same links for the 201 and 210 cars I believe. FCP euro has a
similar kit also.

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 3:31 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Interesting:  Both springs were broken.  between 1/4 and 1/2 of bottom
> coil.   I have springs.
>
> The brake backing plates are rusted tight to the wheel carrier.  I am
> soaking them.  I had wheel carriers, but I guess last year when I
> cleaned out the shed, I junked them.  So I need brake backing plates,
> (plate and ring) as these will  get trashed when I have to take them off.
>
> Anyone got 124 rear wheel carriers with backing plates or backing plates
> and clamp rings?
>
> I am assembling the next orders for links, bushings, grommets for the e
> brake cables etc.   I had that ready before I started welding.   Having
> the welder crap out really delayed this project (along with work and
> holidays.
>
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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

I have 2 new backing plates but I think they are a 210 part number. Let me
know what number you need and I will cross check it.

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 3:31 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Interesting:  Both springs were broken.  between 1/4 and 1/2 of bottom
> coil.   I have springs.
>
> The brake backing plates are rusted tight to the wheel carrier.  I am
> soaking them.  I had wheel carriers, but I guess last year when I
> cleaned out the shed, I junked them.  So I need brake backing plates,
> (plate and ring) as these will  get trashed when I have to take them off.
>
> Anyone got 124 rear wheel carriers with backing plates or backing plates
> and clamp rings?
>
> I am assembling the next orders for links, bushings, grommets for the e
> brake cables etc.   I had that ready before I started welding.   Having
> the welder crap out really delayed this project (along with work and
> holidays.
>
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> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Interesting:  Both springs were broken.  between 1/4 and 1/2 of bottom 
coil.   I have springs.


The brake backing plates are rusted tight to the wheel carrier.  I am 
soaking them.  I had wheel carriers, but I guess last year when I 
cleaned out the shed, I junked them.  So I need brake backing plates, 
(plate and ring) as these will  get trashed when I have to take them off.


Anyone got 124 rear wheel carriers with backing plates or backing plates 
and clamp rings?


I am assembling the next orders for links, bushings, grommets for the e 
brake cables etc.   I had that ready before I started welding.   Having 
the welder crap out really delayed this project (along with work and 
holidays.


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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

A few hours soaking, wiggling and a final little pry with the prybar, 
and it popped out.    I have the whole thing on a bench now.   Subframe 
has worrisome rust on a link gusset, but it will probably be ok.   Max 
has a new one, and there is one here that is not rusty, but I have to 
drive to the place, crawl in the weeds, and try to get it out.   Diff 
and links, wheel carriers, etc are already gone, so it is just the 
subframe left under that car. And I'd have to negotiate some price for it.


Or I can clean up and paint this one.    I intend to post some pictures.


Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
December 20, 2019 at 4:10 PM
Can you just vibrate it a bit from whatever direction you can get at 
it just to loosen it up a bit? Then if you can spray more fluid into 
the joint it may soak down where it will help.


Are you certain that it might not be a better idea to find a better 
car and let this one go?





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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Can you just vibrate it a bit from whatever direction you can get at it 
just to loosen it up a bit? Then if you can spray more fluid into the 
joint it may soak down where it will help.


Are you certain that it might not be a better idea to find a better car 
and let this one go?



On 20/12/2019 3:01 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
yes, but no good way to get at the rear subframe mount.   NO way to 
beat it in the right direction.  with the lfh, I am trying to twist 
the alum part of the mount clockwise and CCW.   I guess I could do 
that with the air hammer, but it is pretty puny in comparison to the 2 
lb lfh.   It does not appear to be practical to try to cut the center 
out with the air chisel.


While it soaks, I've been trying to get the links loose on the other 
side.  That is  not going well either.  Links were replaced probably 
15-20 yrs ago I'd guess.  I see some 210 numbers.  Nuts jammed on with 
an air hammer set o n high.  Shoulders are soft and round off easily. 
outside of nuts are made rounded off...  Not enough space to get a 
socket on most.   One seems to be 18mm.  I have no 18mm wrenches.  Not 
DIN standard.  I have a 18mm socket, but can't get in there with it.  
No room.  One of them I can't even get an open end wrench on.  (the 
tie rod)  Brake backing plate is rust fused to the wheel carrier.  
Soaking that, but little hope I can get it loose without ruining it.

Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
December 20, 2019 at 2:43 PM
Do you have air and an air hammer? You might try seeing if you can 
vibrate things loose.







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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

yes, but no good way to get at the rear subframe mount.   NO way to beat 
it in the right direction.  with the lfh, I am trying to twist the alum 
part of the mount clockwise and CCW.   I guess I could do that with the 
air hammer, but it is pretty puny in comparison to the 2 lb lfh.   It 
does not appear to be practical to try to cut the center out with the 
air chisel.


While it soaks, I've been trying to get the links loose on the other 
side.  That is  not going well either.  Links were replaced probably 
15-20 yrs ago I'd guess.  I see some 210 numbers.  Nuts jammed on with 
an air hammer set o n high.  Shoulders are soft and round off easily. 
outside of nuts are made rounded off...  Not enough space to get a 
socket on most.   One seems to be 18mm.  I have no 18mm wrenches.  Not 
DIN standard.  I have a 18mm socket, but can't get in there with it.  No 
room.  One of them I can't even get an open end wrench on.  (the tie 
rod)  Brake backing plate is rust fused to the wheel carrier.  Soaking 
that, but little hope I can get it loose without ruining it.

Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
December 20, 2019 at 2:43 PM
Do you have air and an air hammer? You might try seeing if you can 
vibrate things loose.






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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Do you have air and an air hammer? You might try seeing if you can 
vibrate things loose.



On 20/12/2019 1:24 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:



LR subframe mount appears to be welded to the body by corrosion of 
AL-FE.   Soaking it now.   Tried beating with no effect.   tried bar, 
but that bends the frame tube.   Flame wrench is not an option because 
I don't have one.   Besides, burning rubber stinks and leaves carbon 
black on everything.


Subrame mount has aluminum center for the bolt, and the body stud is 
steel.


Any earlier MB would have rotted away.   This one just has a few 
cancer spots, but the nuts on the brake lines and hoses are corroded 
to 2-3 mm less OD than original.    Looks now like I should probably 
replace all or part of the brake line to the ABS unit too.


My Dallas 124 is much nicer to work on.  even after 10 years or so in 
IA.  No rust.


Max, if your subframe is not rusty, I may take you up on that

The other 124 I got out of VA 15 yrs ago or so was not rusty. (300TE)

Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
December 20, 2019 at 12:44 PM
Diff is only connected to subframe. I think you've hit all the right
points.

I've got a spare subframe (no diff or axles) you can have if you want to
drag it away from SC.

-
Max
Charleston SC



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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

LR subframe mount appears to be welded to the body by corrosion of 
AL-FE.   Soaking it now.   Tried beating with no effect.   tried bar, 
but that bends the frame tube.   Flame wrench is not an option because I 
don't have one.   Besides, burning rubber stinks and leaves carbon black 
on everything.


Subrame mount has aluminum center for the bolt, and the body stud is steel.

Any earlier MB would have rotted away.   This one just has a few cancer 
spots, but the nuts on the brake lines and hoses are corroded to 2-3 mm 
less OD than original.    Looks now like I should probably replace all 
or part of the brake line to the ABS unit too.


My Dallas 124 is much nicer to work on.  even after 10 years or so in 
IA.  No rust.


Max, if your subframe is not rusty, I may take you up on that

The other 124 I got out of VA 15 yrs ago or so was not rusty.  (300TE)

Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
December 20, 2019 at 12:44 PM
Diff is only connected to subframe. I think you've hit all the right
points.

I've got a spare subframe (no diff or axles) you can have if you want to
drag it away from SC.

-
Max
Charleston SC



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Re: [MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Diff is only connected to subframe.  I think you've hit all the right
points.

I've got a spare subframe (no diff or axles) you can have if you want to
drag it away from SC.

-
Max
Charleston SC


On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 1:28 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Karl or others:
>
> Since Karl has recently done this, I think he has most of the answers.
>
>   I am fixin ta take out the rear subframe of the 124 2.5.   As I
> recall, I have to take out the exhaust, driveshaft rear flex, sway bar
> links, shocks, brake calipers, ABS Sensor in Diff., parking brake
> cables, and of course, the 4 main subframe bolts.  Am I missing anything?
>
> As I recall, the diff has 2 big bolts at the back (10mm allen I think)
> and 2 smaller bolts at the front.   I think these are all into the
> subframe.  Is that right?
>
> What is the best way to lower the unit?   I hope I can balance it on the
> floor jack while I roll it out from under.
>
> More important, what is the best way to raise the subframe  back up into
> position?  Will I need stacks of blocks or an extra person to help
> balance it on the jack as it goes up?
>
> Need to replace the rear brake lines, brake hoses, possibly calipers, Rt
> wheel bearing, parking brake cables,  weld up some rusted holes in the
> body, patch others, derust, clean and paint subframe, and probably
> replace the links.   May need to replace the park brake shoes while
> there.   (YUK)
>
> It has no antislip, so single brake line to the rear, and a T.   I only
> need to replace the lines from the T out, and the hoses.
>
>
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[MBZ] W124 rear subframe R

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Karl or others:

Since Karl has recently done this, I think he has most of the answers.

 I am fixin ta take out the rear subframe of the 124 2.5.   As I 
recall, I have to take out the exhaust, driveshaft rear flex, sway bar 
links, shocks, brake calipers, ABS Sensor in Diff., parking brake 
cables, and of course, the 4 main subframe bolts.  Am I missing anything?


As I recall, the diff has 2 big bolts at the back (10mm allen I think) 
and 2 smaller bolts at the front.   I think these are all into the 
subframe.  Is that right?


What is the best way to lower the unit?   I hope I can balance it on the 
floor jack while I roll it out from under.


More important, what is the best way to raise the subframe  back up into 
position?  Will I need stacks of blocks or an extra person to help 
balance it on the jack as it goes up?


Need to replace the rear brake lines, brake hoses, possibly calipers, Rt 
wheel bearing, parking brake cables,  weld up some rusted holes in the 
body, patch others, derust, clean and paint subframe, and probably 
replace the links.   May need to replace the park brake shoes while 
there.   (YUK)


It has no antislip, so single brake line to the rear, and a T.   I only 
need to replace the lines from the T out, and the hoses.



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