Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill
Thanks to all who responded. Ya'll are very informative! ;-) -- Sincerely, Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill
On Jan 22, 2014 9:22 AM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: Heat is not the same thing as temperature. WC is all about heat transfer, aka cooling effect. It's plenty relevant, especially for people, or HVAC calculations on buildings, but it's not a real temperature. Thank you for the explanation! I did take thermodynamics, but it would seem that part of my brain has fallen out. :) Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill
Peter wrote: Wind chill is simply rate of cooling, it does not change the actual temperature at all. It is a feels like, not a real measurement. Yup. And so it _only_ applies to an object that is warmer than the ambient air - typically that means something that generates heat. A block heater, a warm blooded animal, an engine idling to keep the driver in the bunk warm - these are effected by wind chill. -- Philip, with -17 C showing on the thermometer. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Wind Chill
Hi Gang, with much of the the east coast blanketed in snow, low temps and high winds at times, the weathermen are talking a lot about windchill.I was wondering if inanimate objects are affected by windchill? The reason I ask is for the coolant protection levels. I am protected to -5F or so but with temps around 0 and 20-30mph gusts the chill could beat my coolant protection. Should i worry about my engine and wind chill? BTW, I'm pretty sure the liquid in things like radiators with leaking coolant will feel the chill if being driven - but I'm not sure it's affected if there are no leaks. With the knowledge out there I am sure lots have the answer -- ;-) Thanks -- Sincerely, LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill
Hi Gang, with much of the the east coast blanketed in snow, low temps and high winds at times, the weathermen are talking a lot about windchill.I was wondering if inanimate objects are affected by windchill? The reason I ask is for the coolant protection levels. I am protected to -5F or so but with temps around 0 and 20-30mph gusts the chill could beat my coolant protection. Should i worry about my engine and wind chill? BTW, I'm pretty sure the liquid in things like radiators with leaking coolant will feel the chill if being driven - but I'm not sure it's affected if there are no leaks. With the knowledge out there I am sure lots have the answer -- ;-) Thanks -- Sincerely, LarryT Well, if wind chill affected antifreeze, it would be rated on a temp/speed curve. It is not speed related. Use the factory recommended mixture and you won't have to worry in the lower 48 states or mehico. In the great white north, extreme measures may be needed for 40 below. colder than 10 below, it might be wise to block most of the airflow through the radiator for long trips. (as if you could even do that on modern veeehicles) Antifreeze is also anti-boil. a 50/50 mix is good for the lower 48. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill
Marshall said not years sgo. On Jan 22, 2014 6:02 AM, Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Gang, with much of the the east coast blanketed in snow, low temps and high winds at times, the weathermen are talking a lot about windchill.I was wondering if inanimate objects are affected by windchill? The reason I ask is for the coolant protection levels. I am protected to -5F or so but with temps around 0 and 20-30mph gusts the chill could beat my coolant protection. Should i worry about my engine and wind chill? BTW, I'm pretty sure the liquid in things like radiators with leaking coolant will feel the chill if being driven - but I'm not sure it's affected if there are no leaks. With the knowledge out there I am sure lots have the answer -- ;-) Thanks -- Sincerely, LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 6:02 AM, Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Should i worry about my engine and wind chill? BTW, I'm pretty sure the liquid in things like radiators with leaking coolant will feel the chill if being driven - but I'm not sure it's affected if there are no leaks. My understanding is that wind chill is a derivative of evaporative cooling, so it shouldn't affect a radiator - there's nothing wet to evaporate on the surface. If there was a leak I suspect it would just freeze up and then there wouldn't be any leaks, but I don't know about that. I have heard a suggestion that the feels like number comes from smokers, banished to the outdoors during cold days. (Feels like it's 20 below out here! Puff puff.) Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill
I was wondering if inanimate objects are affected by windchill? Yes, and no. Anything above ambient air temperature is affected by windchill. If it weren't, we wouldn't bother putting fans on radiators, etc. Windchill is why we might block off a radiator to get better cabin heat in really cold winter conditions. The reason I ask is for the coolant protection levels. No, don't worry about that. The WC temperature is not real. Windchill is saying that the cooling effect is the same as still air at the colder temperature, that's all. Nothing to do with evaporation, or with the final temperature of an unheated object. (Stopped car, or dead body.) Heat is not the same thing as temperature. WC is all about heat transfer, aka cooling effect. It's plenty relevant, especially for people, or HVAC calculations on buildings, but it's not a real temperature. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind chill
Speaking of that, I just yesterday got an air velocity meter at the thrift shop. It works by measuring the wind chill on a heated probe. Range from about 2 feet/minute to 12,000 feet/minute, or 136 MPH, in three ranges. Seems to be working. It's intended for HVAC ducting measurements. I love tools. This one was $13. With case, charger, manual (including theory of operation and schematic). Kurz model 443. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind chill
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 06:38:17 -0800 Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: Speaking of that, I just yesterday got an air velocity meter at the thrift shop. It works by measuring the wind chill on a heated probe. Range from about 2 feet/minute to 12,000 feet/minute, or 136 MPH, in three ranges. Seems to be working. It's intended for HVAC ducting measurements. It a hot-wire anemometer. Those are nifty devices. 136 mph in a HVAC duct seems a little excessive I love tools. This one was $13. With case, charger, manual (including theory of operation and schematic). Kurz model 443. Such a deal! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind chill
They have circuitry to keep the temperature (or resistance) of the hot wire at a certain level with more current as the air flows past, and all that correlates to how much heat is being removed by the airflow (science!), which correlates to the speed of the air flow (the wind chill, sorta). There is some aspect to do with the temperature of the airflow, I forget what it is. Back in college in my NASA summer internships we had those in the hypersonic wind tunnels to measure the airspeed, and I think in the other wind tunnels in general. That is a great deal on that instrument. --R On 1/22/14 10:22 AM, Craig wrote: On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 06:38:17 -0800 Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: Speaking of that, I just yesterday got an air velocity meter at the thrift shop. It works by measuring the wind chill on a heated probe. Range from about 2 feet/minute to 12,000 feet/minute, or 136 MPH, in three ranges. Seems to be working. It's intended for HVAC ducting measurements. It a hot-wire anemometer. Those are nifty devices. 136 mph in a HVAC duct seems a little excessive I love tools. This one was $13. With case, charger, manual (including theory of operation and schematic). Kurz model 443. Such a deal! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind chill
That makes sense, I probably knew that at some time in the past. --R On 1/22/14 11:16 AM, Jim Cathey wrote: There is some aspect to do with the temperature of the airflow, I forget what it is. The temperature of the unheated body of the probe is also measured, and subtracted out by the circuitry. (Wheatstone bridge, one bottom leg is the body thermistor, the other bottom leg is the heated sensor. Aren't schematics fun!) This instrument is designed to be accurate at room temperature, and probably misreads more the further the temperature gets from there. I can just wave the probe around and watch the meter needle respond. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind chill
There is some aspect to do with the temperature of the airflow, I forget what it is. The temperature of the unheated body of the probe is also measured, and subtracted out by the circuitry. (Wheatstone bridge, one bottom leg is the body thermistor, the other bottom leg is the heated sensor. Aren't schematics fun!) This instrument is designed to be accurate at room temperature, and probably misreads more the further the temperature gets from there. I can just wave the probe around and watch the meter needle respond. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind chill
I bought a super slick noise meter on ebay for around $30 delivered. On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: That makes sense, I probably knew that at some time in the past. --R On 1/22/14 11:16 AM, Jim Cathey wrote: There is some aspect to do with the temperature of the airflow, I forget what it is. The temperature of the unheated body of the probe is also measured, and subtracted out by the circuitry. (Wheatstone bridge, one bottom leg is the body thermistor, the other bottom leg is the heated sensor. Aren't schematics fun!) This instrument is designed to be accurate at room temperature, and probably misreads more the further the temperature gets from there. I can just wave the probe around and watch the meter needle respond. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill
Wind chill is simply rate of cooling, it does not change the actual temperature at all. It is a feels like, not a real measurement. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind chill
I bought a wind meter made by Vaavud (http://vaavud.com/) that is a single pair cup anemometer that plugs into the headset port on a smartphone. It works OK, but isn't always on top of things - like when you feel a strong gust, see the cups speed up, and no change on the read-out. In more steady conditions it seems better. I bought it from Tackle Shack via Amazon - probably paid too much, but it is a fun toy - stand on the runway and see what the wind is, here, not the nearest reporting airport. It slips in a pocket and is easy to carry around. Hopefully they will improve the app and it will become a better tool. -- OK Don They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin 1775 in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. - Benjamin Franklin 1789 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: yea, about every winter. E M wrote: I take it, we've been over all this before? lol Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net oh boy, here we go again. E M wrote: Windchill has no effect on cars, but their drivers sure feel it. ;-) Ed 300E -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ed6d78e5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ba003d69/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
Our forecast for tonight here (from National Weather Service) -- Bitterly cold. Some clouds this evening will give way to mainly clear skies overnight. Dangerous wind chills approaching -35F. Low -16F. Winds NW at 10 to 20 mph. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:27 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: yea, about every winter. E M wrote: I take it, we've been over all this before? lol Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net oh boy, here we go again. E M wrote: Windchill has no effect on cars, but their drivers sure feel it. ;-) Ed 300E -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ed6d78e5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ba003d69/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/125f24d4/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill
Just wait until summer when it gets above 90F and the warmists start in about having to Do Something (raise taxes) about it. --R Wonko the Sane wrote: Our forecast for tonight here (from National Weather Service) -- Bitterly cold. Some clouds this evening will give way to mainly clear skies overnight. Dangerous wind chills approaching -35F. Low -16F. Winds NW at 10 to 20 mph. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
Which translates into, if you're outside, best to have pants on. hee hee Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Wonko the Sane don.b...@gmail.com Our forecast for tonight here (from National Weather Service) -- Bitterly cold. Some clouds this evening will give way to mainly clear skies overnight. Dangerous wind chills approaching -35F. Low -16F. Winds NW at 10 to 20 mph. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:27 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: yea, about every winter. E M wrote: I take it, we've been over all this before? lol Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net oh boy, here we go again. E M wrote: Windchill has no effect on cars, but their drivers sure feel it. ;-) Ed 300E -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ed6d78e5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ba003d69/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/125f24d4/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/72ad12ac/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
And if you dinna think that the wind has any effect on a vehicle, park it in the open somewhere on a cold day and just see how much stiffer everything seems when you try to start it up and run it. If I have my druthers, I want to park in a nice sheltered spot. Randy who should have remembered to plug his truck in after lunch and should go do so now! -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Wonko the Sane Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:02 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) Our forecast for tonight here (from National Weather Service) -- Bitterly cold. Some clouds this evening will give way to mainly clear skies overnight. Dangerous wind chills approaching -35F. Low -16F. Winds NW at 10 to 20 mph. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:27 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: yea, about every winter. E M wrote: I take it, we've been over all this before? lol Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net oh boy, here we go again. E M wrote: Windchill has no effect on cars, but their drivers sure feel it. ;-) Ed 300E -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ed6d78e5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ba003d69/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/125f24d4/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
Several pairs! Randy -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of E M Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:36 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) Which translates into, if you're outside, best to have pants on. hee hee Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Wonko the Sane don.b...@gmail.com Our forecast for tonight here (from National Weather Service) -- Bitterly cold. Some clouds this evening will give way to mainly clear skies overnight. Dangerous wind chills approaching -35F. Low -16F. Winds NW at 10 to 20 mph. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:27 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: yea, about every winter. E M wrote: I take it, we've been over all this before? lol Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net oh boy, here we go again. E M wrote: Windchill has no effect on cars, but their drivers sure feel it. ;-) Ed 300E -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ed6d78e5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ba003d69/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/125f24d4/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/72ad12ac/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
They've even talked about dropping the whole wind chill thing here, but I think it gives bragging rights. If someone says it's cold where they are, we can always throw in the wind chill. Makes us seem a bit tougher. lol. The wind can blow as hard as it likes, it doesn't make the temp any colder. It might blow the heat off your skin a bit quicker, but as metal doesn't product any heat, it doesn't have any heat to blow off. Makes about as much sense as putting a blanket on your car to keep it warm. Unlike a human, there's no heat being produced to keep in. Ask any doctor, when he pulls a blanket off a dead guy, how warm is he? Wind chill or not, I just got in and it's damn cold, so I'm off to put the kettle on! :-) Ed 300E 2009/1/14 ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: yea, about every winter. E M wrote: I take it, we've been over all this before? lol Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net oh boy, here we go again. E M wrote: Windchill has no effect on cars, but their drivers sure feel it. ;-) Ed 300E -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ed6d78e5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ba003d69/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/da75ab14/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
On a 0° day, my thermometer reads 0°. It's a dry bulb. If the wind is blowing, it's still 0°. How can your car/truck tell the difference? Pete, who is warm blooded and feels the wind chill! - Original Message - From: R A Bennell b...@mts.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:40:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) And if you dinna think that the wind has any effect on a vehicle, park it in the open somewhere on a cold day and just see how much stiffer everything seems when you try to start it up and run it. If I have my druthers, I want to park in a nice sheltered spot. Randy who should have remembered to plug his truck in after lunch and should go do so now! -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Wonko the Sane Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:02 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) Our forecast for tonight here (from National Weather Service) -- Bitterly cold. Some clouds this evening will give way to mainly clear skies overnight. Dangerous wind chills approaching -35F. Low -16F. Winds NW at 10 to 20 mph. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:27 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: yea, about every winter. E M wrote: I take it, we've been over all this before? lol Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net oh boy, here we go again. E M wrote: Windchill has no effect on cars, but their drivers sure feel it. ;-) Ed 300E -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ed6d78e5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ba003d69/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/125f24d4/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/36e81c5b/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
The vehicle will lose heat more quickly on a windy day, on the same principal that your radiator works better when the fan is blowing air through it. The vehicle will never become colder than the actual air temperature, regardless of wind. But if there is wind it will cool faster. So if you park you car in a sheltered spot for 4 hours, the engine block would likely be warmer than the same car parked at the same temperature in a windy area, for the same 4 hours. Allan On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:44:46 + (UTC), pm7...@comcast.net said: On a 0° day, my thermometer reads 0°. It's a dry bulb. If the wind is blowing, it's still 0°. How can your car/truck tell the difference? Pete, who is warm blooded and feels the wind chill! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
I don't claim to be able to explain why but I can tell you that living on the open prairies will make you feel much colder than living where the wind does not get at you. I used to live in north western Ontario where the landscape is much more uneven - ie hills etc and one did not normally feel the wind much there unless one was in an open area. One might hear the wind in the trees but it was usually something that didn't bother us much. Our house was on a bit of a hill over looking the lake facing west. If the wind came from the west in winter, we could get frozen pipes under the house. Otherwise, they did not generally freeze. I also recall snowmobiling on the lake on a day when it was windy. It was so cold that we were crouching on the leeward side of the snowmobile seat trying to stay out of the wind so much as possible. My personal experience may be at odds with the theoretical view but I believe that the wind makes one feel much colder and I believe that it will make a vehicle feel much colder and more stiff when one tries to drive it in the winter if it has been sitting in an exposed area. Randy who sometimes wishes he was without this sort of experience. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of pm7...@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:45 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) On a 0° day, my thermometer reads 0°. It's a dry bulb. If the wind is blowing, it's still 0°. How can your car/truck tell the difference? Pete, who is warm blooded and feels the wind chill! - Original Message - From: R A Bennell b...@mts.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:40:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) And if you dinna think that the wind has any effect on a vehicle, park it in the open somewhere on a cold day and just see how much stiffer everything seems when you try to start it up and run it. If I have my druthers, I want to park in a nice sheltered spot. Randy who should have remembered to plug his truck in after lunch and should go do so now! -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Wonko the Sane Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:02 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) Our forecast for tonight here (from National Weather Service) -- Bitterly cold. Some clouds this evening will give way to mainly clear skies overnight. Dangerous wind chills approaching -35F. Low -16F. Winds NW at 10 to 20 mph. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:27 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: yea, about every winter. E M wrote: I take it, we've been over all this before? lol Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net oh boy, here we go again. E M wrote: Windchill has no effect on cars, but their drivers sure feel it. ;-) Ed 300E -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ed6d78e5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM -- next part -- An HTML
Re: [MBZ] wind chill
Seems like we should just rename this the physics discussion list? I could see that a warm engine would reach ambient temperature much quicker with wind, so windchill would reduce the effectiveness of a block heater, and the amount of time you could leave your vehicle parked outside before it won't start in extreme cold. Also, if the metal were wet (say from rain), then wind could cause the water to evaporate quicker, and the metal could temporarily cool to below the ambient temperature. Perhaps this is why I sometimes see a layer of frost on the roof of my car, when it's still slightly above freezing? Or maybe my thermometer is just wrong?.. Tyler pm7...@comcast.net wrote: On a 0° day, my thermometer reads 0°. It's a dry bulb. If the wind is blowing, it's still 0°. How can your car/truck tell the difference? Pete, who is warm blooded and feels the wind chill! - Original Message - From: R A Bennell b...@mts.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:40:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) And if you dinna think that the wind has any effect on a vehicle, park it in the open somewhere on a cold day and just see how much stiffer everything seems when you try to start it up and run it. If I have my druthers, I want to park in a nice sheltered spot. Randy who should have remembered to plug his truck in after lunch and should go do so now! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
People are idiots. My wife and I were waiting at Olive Garden (she had a gift card otherwise I'd never go there) the other day, it was maybe 15F outside and this idiot is wearing shorts... Oh and he's complaining its too cold in the lobby. I was DYING of the heat in my heavy coat... It was probably 75 in there but everytime the doors opened there was a big draft and the guy would get all pissy. Finally, and this is classic, his wife says Just shut up, you were stupid enough to wear shorts! the whole lobby applauded. -Curt Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:27:35 -0800 From: ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org Subject: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: 496e4ab7.6010...@backyardengineering.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; Format=flowed yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/9d042c36/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill
That is because the wind is sucking the heat out of you faster than if the wind were not blowing (and faster than you can make heat). If you stand in the sun on a still cold day, you might start feeling warmer from the sunshine. Stand in the sun on a windy cold day, and you will feel colder, because you are losing that solar heat plus your body heat. You won't freeze any more solid whether the wind is blowing or not, you will just get to the ambient temp faster with the wind. Kinda like blowing on your soup to cool it, you can't blow it cooler than room temp (plus a bit for warm breath). --R R A Bennell wrote: I don't claim to be able to explain why but I can tell you that living on the open prairies will make you feel much colder than living where the wind does not get at you. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
0 degrees = 0 degrees; 'just gets there faster with wind blowing on the object of the measurement. Wilton - Original Message - From: pm7...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) On a 0° day, my thermometer reads 0°. It's a dry bulb. If the wind is blowing, it's still 0°. How can your car/truck tell the difference? Pete, who is warm blooded and feels the wind chill! - Original Message - From: R A Bennell b...@mts.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:40:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) And if you dinna think that the wind has any effect on a vehicle, park it in the open somewhere on a cold day and just see how much stiffer everything seems when you try to start it up and run it. If I have my druthers, I want to park in a nice sheltered spot. Randy who should have remembered to plug his truck in after lunch and should go do so now! -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Wonko the Sane Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:02 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) Our forecast for tonight here (from National Weather Service) -- Bitterly cold. Some clouds this evening will give way to mainly clear skies overnight. Dangerous wind chills approaching -35F. Low -16F. Winds NW at 10 to 20 mph. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:27 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: yea, about every winter. E M wrote: I take it, we've been over all this before? lol Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net oh boy, here we go again. E M wrote: Windchill has no effect on cars, but their drivers sure feel it. ;-) Ed 300E -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ed6 d78e5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ba0 03d69/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/12 5f24d4/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
I think you folks that don't believe in wind chill should come on north for a bit and test your theories. Randy who prefers still days when it is cold out -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Wilton Strickland Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:28 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) 0 degrees = 0 degrees; 'just gets there faster with wind blowing on the object of the measurement. Wilton - Original Message - From: pm7...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) On a 0° day, my thermometer reads 0°. It's a dry bulb. If the wind is blowing, it's still 0°. How can your car/truck tell the difference? Pete, who is warm blooded and feels the wind chill! - Original Message - From: R A Bennell b...@mts.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:40:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) And if you dinna think that the wind has any effect on a vehicle, park it in the open somewhere on a cold day and just see how much stiffer everything seems when you try to start it up and run it. If I have my druthers, I want to park in a nice sheltered spot. Randy who should have remembered to plug his truck in after lunch and should go do so now! -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Wonko the Sane Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:02 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) Our forecast for tonight here (from National Weather Service) -- Bitterly cold. Some clouds this evening will give way to mainly clear skies overnight. Dangerous wind chills approaching -35F. Low -16F. Winds NW at 10 to 20 mph. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:27 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: yea, about every winter. E M wrote: I take it, we've been over all this before? lol Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net oh boy, here we go again. E M wrote: Windchill has no effect on cars, but their drivers sure feel it. ;-) Ed 300E -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ed6 d78e5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ba0 03d69/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/12 5f24d4/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
I understand windchill; I've had a BUNCH of it, even in Canada AND Greenland at -55F ambient/-90F windchill. Wilton - Original Message - From: R A Bennell b...@mts.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) I think you folks that don't believe in wind chill should come on north for a bit and test your theories. Randy who prefers still days when it is cold out -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Wilton Strickland Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:28 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) 0 degrees = 0 degrees; 'just gets there faster with wind blowing on the object of the measurement. Wilton - Original Message - From: pm7...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) On a 0° day, my thermometer reads 0°. It's a dry bulb. If the wind is blowing, it's still 0°. How can your car/truck tell the difference? Pete, who is warm blooded and feels the wind chill! - Original Message - From: R A Bennell b...@mts.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:40:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) And if you dinna think that the wind has any effect on a vehicle, park it in the open somewhere on a cold day and just see how much stiffer everything seems when you try to start it up and run it. If I have my druthers, I want to park in a nice sheltered spot. Randy who should have remembered to plug his truck in after lunch and should go do so now! -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Wonko the Sane Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:02 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) Our forecast for tonight here (from National Weather Service) -- Bitterly cold. Some clouds this evening will give way to mainly clear skies overnight. Dangerous wind chills approaching -35F. Low -16F. Winds NW at 10 to 20 mph. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:27 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: yea, about every winter. E M wrote: I take it, we've been over all this before? lol Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net oh boy, here we go again. E M wrote: Windchill has no effect on cars, but their drivers sure feel it. ;-) Ed 300E -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ed6 d78e5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ba0 03d69/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
R A Bennell wrote: My personal experience may be at odds with the theoretical view but I believe that the wind makes one feel much colder and I believe that it will make a vehicle feel much colder and more stiff when one tries to drive it in the winter if it has been sitting in an exposed area. Everybody agrees that wind chill affects HUMANS (and other critters). There is no doubt a windy day will FEEL colder than a calm day. However, for NON-LIVING things the wind will only cool them to ambient quicker. ie, your car will get colder quicker when its windy, but it will not go below ambient. Since we have internal sources of heat, the whole getting cooler faster thing makes us FEEL colder since we need to increase our heat production. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill
Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net said: Just wait until summer when it gets above 90F and the warmists start in about having to Do Something (raise taxes) about it. Been watching the History Channel the past few days? Seems like between Mayan prophecy, asteroids, comets, gamma-ray bursts with enough energy to incinerate the Earth, locusts, and another impending dust bowl, that global warming is the least of our worries. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
As for warm blooded critters, wind causes the colder air to be blown through the hair/clothing cools the skin faster than if the temp was the same and there was no wind. This effect has been known as wind chill. Wind chill is an estimate of the temperature in no wind conditions that would feel the same as a warmer temp with wind. It has to do with heat transfer between air and solids. it is no different than the thermodynamics of any air to heat exchanger. Static air is a poor conductor of heat, compared to water or other liquids) and solids. As for wind and solids, such as an engine, Randy Bennell pointed out his truck is easier to start after being parked in the lee, rather than in the open wind. Others have pointed out that metal has no wind chill. Both are right. Here is why: While metal has no feeling, and therefore feels no wind chill effect, so those who assert wind chill does not affect weather, are right. However, when we look at the theory and equations of thermodynamics, our poor conductor of heat, air, becomes a better conductor when it moves fast enough to remove the surface effect of the metal. The effective result is that Randy's pickup, parked in the open with say, a 20-30 mph wind will cool off faster than if it were parked in a unheated garage. Inside the unheated garage, the unmoving air acts as an insulator, keeping the temps of the metal warmer for a longer period of time than if it were parked outside. What is happening is that since it appears Randy starts his truck again at lunchtime, the truck has only about 4 hours to cool off between when he gets to work and lunch, and between lunch and going home. So, in the sheltered parking, the truck will have some retained warmth, (not much, but 10 degrees helps). When the same truck is parked in the wind, by the time he goes back out, the innards of the engine are pretty much ambient temp. When parking overnight in a garage, the truck engine will retain some heat from the day before. Again, not much, but enough to make a noticeable difference in the stiffness of the oil. For this reason, there are situation when a blanket over an engine will help to insulate, and keep the engine a little warmer for the next time it needs to be started. Wrapping a blanket around the engine and fuel filter of a diesel could be helpful to prevent gelling under some conditions, particularly on OM60x engines with a fuel heater. If the car is going to sit 24 hours or more (like at an airport) forget about it. it will either start or not. At 02:27 PM 1/14/2009, you wrote: yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: yea, about every winter. E M wrote: I take it, we've been over all this before? lol Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net oh boy, here we go again. E M wrote: Windchill has no effect on cars, but their drivers sure feel it. ;-) Ed 300E -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ed6d78e5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/ba003d69/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or
Re: [MBZ] wind chill
Amen. I am still waiting for albores flappin yap to warm us up, but instead, the planet is cooling off. The glaciers are coming! The GLACIERS are coming! Panic everyone, and send me money to stop the glaciers! If you send enough money, I can stop them and save the world! SEND MONEY TO MY PAYPAL AT lfa...@leadingchange.com If you don't forward this to at least 20 friends in the next 30 minutes, I will let the glacier run over you! that global warming is the least of our worries. Allan Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
'Zackly. Wilton - Original Message - From: John Robbins je...@msstate.edu To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) R A Bennell wrote: My personal experience may be at odds with the theoretical view but I believe that the wind makes one feel much colder and I believe that it will make a vehicle feel much colder and more stiff when one tries to drive it in the winter if it has been sitting in an exposed area. Everybody agrees that wind chill affects HUMANS (and other critters). There is no doubt a windy day will FEEL colder than a calm day. However, for NON-LIVING things the wind will only cool them to ambient quicker. ie, your car will get colder quicker when its windy, but it will not go below ambient. Since we have internal sources of heat, the whole getting cooler faster thing makes us FEEL colder since we need to increase our heat production. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
'Zackly. Wilton - Original Message - From: Loren Faeth lfa...@leadingchange.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled) As for warm blooded critters, wind causes the colder air to be blown through the hair/clothing cools the skin faster than if the temp was the same and there was no wind. This effect has been known as wind chill. Wind chill is an estimate of the temperature in no wind conditions that would feel the same as a warmer temp with wind. It has to do with heat transfer between air and solids. it is no different than the thermodynamics of any air to heat exchanger. Static air is a poor conductor of heat, compared to water or other liquids) and solids. As for wind and solids, such as an engine, Randy Bennell pointed out his truck is easier to start after being parked in the lee, rather than in the open wind. Others have pointed out that metal has no wind chill. Both are right. Here is why: While metal has no feeling, and therefore feels no wind chill effect, so those who assert wind chill does not affect weather, are right. However, when we look at the theory and equations of thermodynamics, our poor conductor of heat, air, becomes a better conductor when it moves fast enough to remove the surface effect of the metal. The effective result is that Randy's pickup, parked in the open with say, a 20-30 mph wind will cool off faster than if it were parked in a unheated garage. Inside the unheated garage, the unmoving air acts as an insulator, keeping the temps of the metal warmer for a longer period of time than if it were parked outside. What is happening is that since it appears Randy starts his truck again at lunchtime, the truck has only about 4 hours to cool off between when he gets to work and lunch, and between lunch and going home. So, in the sheltered parking, the truck will have some retained warmth, (not much, but 10 degrees helps). When the same truck is parked in the wind, by the time he goes back out, the innards of the engine are pretty much ambient temp. When parking overnight in a garage, the truck engine will retain some heat from the day before. Again, not much, but enough to make a noticeable difference in the stiffness of the oil. For this reason, there are situation when a blanket over an engine will help to insulate, and keep the engine a little warmer for the next time it needs to be started. Wrapping a blanket around the engine and fuel filter of a diesel could be helpful to prevent gelling under some conditions, particularly on OM60x engines with a fuel heater. If the car is going to sit 24 hours or more (like at an airport) forget about it. it will either start or not. At 02:27 PM 1/14/2009, you wrote: yeah, i saw that go by, and just giggled,... if people still think that wind affects the temp of metal the same way it affects exposed flesh, i'm not currently inclined to discuss it with them. 'Wind Chill' still seems like a pretty irrelevant concept, anyway, for anything except adding more drama to the weather report. i mean, i've experienced it even in the desert, but why would anyone have flesh exposed when it's cold enough that Wind Chill would *really* matter? cheers! e Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: yea, about every winter. E M wrote: I take it, we've been over all this before? lol Ed 300E 2009/1/14 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net oh boy, here we go again. E M wrote: Windchill has no effect on cars, but their drivers sure feel it. ;-) Ed 300E -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114 /ed6d78e5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1893 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 6:59 AM -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed
Re: [MBZ] wind chill
Allan S. wrote: Been watching the History Channel the past few days? Seems like between Mayan prophecy, asteroids, comets, gamma-ray bursts with enough energy to incinerate the Earth, locusts, and another impending dust bowl, that global warming is the least of our worries. Did you watch the couple of weeks before when they did a whole series on the Seven Deadly Sins? I thought that was very interesting. Donald H. Snook -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090114/fd00c35a/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
E wrote: They've even talked about dropping the whole wind chill thing here, but I think it gives bragging rights. If someone says it's cold where they are, we can always throw in the wind chill. Makes us seem a bit tougher. lol. The wind can blow as hard as it likes, it doesn't make the temp any colder. It might blow the heat off your skin a bit quicker, but as metal doesn't product any heat, it doesn't have any heat to blow off. Unless it has a block heater. Or was was running recently and so is warmer than ambient. Once it is at ambient temperature, wind is no longer a factor. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill
tyler wrote: Seems like we should just rename this the physics discussion list? Perhaps this is why I sometimes see a layer of frost on the roof of my car, when it's still slightly above freezing? Or maybe my thermometer is just wrong?.. More likely it is because the ground is actually warmed. The car will be acting as a black-body radiation source sinking it radiation into space. With no cloud or carport cover, the surface can quickly cool. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
It seems than at Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:04:11 -0600, R wrote:
I don't claim to be able to explain why but I can tell you
that living on the open prairies will make you feel much
colder than living where the wind does not get at you.
People are quite affected by the wind. That's because we
generate heat, and the wind steal the air that we have warmed
up right next to our skin.
Our house was on a bit of a hill over
looking the lake facing west. If the wind came from the west
in winter, we could get frozen pipes under the house.
Otherwise, they did not generally freeze.
Again, a heat source. When the object is above (or below...)
ambient temp, then the wind will aid in the transfer of heat to
make the object match ambient temperature.
My personal experience may be at odds with the theoretical
view but I believe that the wind makes one feel much colder
and I believe that it will make a vehicle feel much colder and
more stiff when one tries to drive it in the winter if it has
been sitting in an exposed area.
If the vehicle is at ambient because it's been sitting there for
24 hr, then the wind will have no effect. It has no heat to
steal. If it was recently run, or has a block heater - _then_
wind matters! ('cause there is heat to carry away).
-- Philip
___
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Re: [MBZ] wind chill (was: Re: Gelled)
When using a block heater, best to keep the hood closed then, eh? hee hee
Ed
300E
2009/1/14 Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com
It seems than at Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:04:11 -0600, R wrote:
I don't claim to be able to explain why but I can tell you
that living on the open prairies will make you feel much
colder than living where the wind does not get at you.
People are quite affected by the wind. That's because we
generate heat, and the wind steal the air that we have warmed
up right next to our skin.
Our house was on a bit of a hill over
looking the lake facing west. If the wind came from the west
in winter, we could get frozen pipes under the house.
Otherwise, they did not generally freeze.
Again, a heat source. When the object is above (or below...)
ambient temp, then the wind will aid in the transfer of heat to
make the object match ambient temperature.
My personal experience may be at odds with the theoretical
view but I believe that the wind makes one feel much colder
and I believe that it will make a vehicle feel much colder and
more stiff when one tries to drive it in the winter if it has
been sitting in an exposed area.
If the vehicle is at ambient because it's been sitting there for
24 hr, then the wind will have no effect. It has no heat to
steal. If it was recently run, or has a block heater - _then_
wind matters! ('cause there is heat to carry away).
-- Philip
___
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For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
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Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
I was about to say that Marshall settled this for me last winter, but I see that he has settled it again in 2006. But I do challenge him on one point -- given sufficiently low temps (not seen normally seen in PA but commonly seen in northwest IA) wind chill continues to matter, because it determines how damn'd cold you feel while jump-starting your diesel after it has sat outside your workplace for nine hours. (We are talking sub-ZeroF temps here.) On 12/7/06, Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mercedes has stated that it takes about 8 hours on average for the car to reach temperature equilibrium (and I agree that's about right) with the ambient temperature. On a windy night it takes less time and in a well sheltered area a bit longer. Once at equilibrium, wind makes no further contribution. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Most men want to spend time in the garage. As for me, I'd much rather be in the kitchen -- cooking, not eating.
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
LT Don wrote: I was about to say that Marshall settled this for me last winter, but I see that he has settled it again in 2006. But I do challenge him on one point -- given sufficiently low temps (not seen normally seen in PA but commonly seen in northwest IA) wind chill continues to matter, because it determines how damn'd cold you feel while jump-starting your diesel after it has sat outside your workplace for nine hours. (We are talking sub-ZeroF temps here.) Can't dispute that! I've spent a morning or two at 20 below (F) starting a wife's diesel that had sat outside in a hospital parking lot all night! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
My '83 VW Quantum diesel kicked right over (Mobil-1 15-W-50) at lunch time in +1F, after being driven two blocks from the garage at 7:30 am and then sitting until noon. Two quick hits of the glow plugs and pulled the cold start handle (have no idea what that does, but it works). I think my 240D will be a Garage Queen during the salt season. On 12/7/06, Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LT Don wrote: I was about to say that Marshall settled this for me last winter, but I see that he has settled it again in 2006. But I do challenge him on one point -- given sufficiently low temps (not seen normally seen in PA but commonly seen in northwest IA) wind chill continues to matter, because it determines how damn'd cold you feel while jump-starting your diesel after it has sat outside your workplace for nine hours. (We are talking sub-ZeroF temps here.) Can't dispute that! I've spent a morning or two at 20 below (F) starting a wife's diesel that had sat outside in a hospital parking lot all night! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Most men want to spend time in the garage. As for me, I'd much rather be in the kitchen -- cooking, not eating.
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
That's what you silly folk get for living where it gets so damn cold. Down here, we hardly EVERY see temps below zero! And wind? Nah, too many trees for that! :) On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:47:22 -0600, Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LT Don wrote: I was about to say that Marshall settled this for me last winter, but I see that he has settled it again in 2006. But I do challenge him on one point -- given sufficiently low temps (not seen normally seen in PA but commonly seen in northwest IA) wind chill continues to matter, because it determines how damn'd cold you feel while jump-starting your diesel after it has sat outside your workplace for nine hours. (We are talking sub-ZeroF temps here.) Can't dispute that! I've spent a morning or two at 20 below (F) starting a wife's diesel that had sat outside in a hospital parking lot all night! Marshall -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work '85 300D (280,176) parts car
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
Yeah, it was fun this morning at a balmy 5F with a windchill of probably around -10F or less. It was quite windy. Yeah, my battery is definitely toast. What amazed me was just how slow the engine can crank and still start. my brother just swapped out his like 4 year old Subaru battery (I'm guessing like 350CCA's, maybe it's more) so I used the jumper cables to add some capacity to the Benz battery (cause the 100amp jump start function on the charger wouldn't budge it) Oh, and I did leave the block heater plugged in all night. I'm gonna have to check it with my kill-a-watt cause it didn't seem like any difference this morning, it was a good 15 minutes or so before I saw any movement on the temp gauge. ANYWAY... With that little Suby battery jumpered in (after I took the jumper cables out to the shop and used the brush on the grinder wheel to clean the rust off as I couldn't get them to connect at ALL prior to that) It woud at least turn the engine over, but I can't imagine it was anything more than 100RPM. But I let it try a few times just for kicks. I'll be darned if about 5 seconds in it started to sputter and within around 10 seconds was actually running! Hopefully it will be a bit warmer at lunch time when I head home and that Sube battery will get me to life again and then I can figure out what I'm doing battery -wise. Do you have to take the air cleaner off to change the battery? Levi On 12/7/06, Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LT Don wrote: I was about to say that Marshall settled this for me last winter, but I see that he has settled it again in 2006. But I do challenge him on one point -- given sufficiently low temps (not seen normally seen in PA but commonly seen in northwest IA) wind chill continues to matter, because it determines how damn'd cold you feel while jump-starting your diesel after it has sat outside your workplace for nine hours. (We are talking sub-ZeroF temps here.) Can't dispute that! I've spent a morning or two at 20 below (F) starting a wife's diesel that had sat outside in a hospital parking lot all night! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
charger wouldn't budge it) Oh, and I did leave the block heater plugged in all night. I'm gonna have to check it with my kill-a-watt cause it didn't seem like any difference this morning, it was a good 15 minutes or so before I saw any movement on the temp gauge. If it's working, and it's quiet out, you can hear the gentle sizzle. Do you have to take the air cleaner off to change the battery? Not on my cars. But there are a lot of differences in that area. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
LT Don wrote: My '83 VW Quantum diesel kicked right over (Mobil-1 15-W-50) at lunch time in +1F, after being driven two blocks from the garage at 7:30 am and then sitting until noon. Two quick hits of the glow plugs and pulled the cold start handle (have no idea what that does, but it works). It adds a fixed amount of timing advance at low RPM -- about 5 degrees, IIRC.
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
Werner Fehlauer wrote: Jim - at the risk of starting a whole new thread, Wind Chill applies only to living things (animate) that have a circulating system (blood). Ah, but we're talking about an engine being actively heated by a block heater. Kinda like how your body is actively heated. So wind chill *will* have some effect -- the wind will carry more of the block heater's heat away, and the engine will be colder than it would have been in a sheltered area.
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
David - Bzzzt! An engine block, whether standing in the wind or in an unheated shelter, will never get below ambient temperature, no matter how hard the wind blows. Now it will cool down to ambient faster with air circulation, but no way will it get colder than that - unlike humans, who would feel like it is a lot colder than ambient when in the wind. I was referring to the term Wind Chill, as in Wind Chill factor, which only affects animate objects as has been correctly pointed out by several listers. Werner - Original Message - From: David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater) Werner Fehlauer wrote: Jim - at the risk of starting a whole new thread, Wind Chill applies only to living things (animate) that have a circulating system (blood). Ah, but we're talking about an engine being actively heated by a block heater. Kinda like how your body is actively heated. So wind chill *will* have some effect -- the wind will carry more of the block heater's heat away, and the engine will be colder than it would have been in a sheltered area. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 It's just semantics; you're both right. There are many different ways to define and calculate wind chill. On Dec 6, 2006, at 6:42 PM, David Brodbeck wrote: Ah, but we're talking about an engine being actively heated by a block heater. Kinda like how your body is actively heated. So wind chill *will* have some effect -- the wind will carry more of the block heater's heat away, and the engine will be colder than it would have been in a sheltered area. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFd5e7t178NxI/higRAnyHAJoDr5ItSEk7UOGFT53z+Y2viFmPygCfVaHd HN9luAd5OpslxY7M4gs49Ms= =NcGu -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
Werner Fehlauer wrote: David - Bzzzt! An engine block, whether standing in the wind or in an unheated shelter, will never get below ambient temperature, no matter how hard the wind blows. I realize that, but the original question was what temperature the engine will reach WITH THE BLOCK HEATER ON. That will *always* be above ambient, but in the case of windy conditions (which would have a low wind chill reading) it will be lower than it would be in calm conditions.
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
circulation, but no way will it get colder than that - unlike humans, who would feel like it is a lot colder than ambient when in the wind. We feel the extra cold because of the increased rate of heat loss. The largest component of this is due to the wind, the sweating component is much smaller. I was referring to the term Wind Chill, as in Wind Chill factor, which only affects animate objects as has been correctly pointed out by several listers. I'm not talking about Wind Chill Factor (TM, all rights reserved, etc.), I'm talking about being chilled faster via wind. Wind chill, for short. It's an operating mechanism, just not exactly the same as for fur-less mammals. Humans also rarely get below ambient temperature. Until they are long past caring. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
It may not be relevant but I tell you it has an effect. I agree... If you park out in a windy spot as opposed to a shielded spot on a cold night, you will notice a difference not only in starting but in how stiff the whole car is. ...But not really about this. Wind or not, parked outside it all should have reached equilibrium before the night was over. Assuming temperatures cold enough to be worthy of the name. 45 degrees doesn't cut it. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
Jim Cathey wrote: It may not be relevant but I tell you it has an effect. I agree... If you park out in a windy spot as opposed to a shielded spot on a cold night, you will notice a difference not only in starting but in how stiff the whole car is. ...But not really about this. Wind or not, parked outside it all should have reached equilibrium before the night was over. Assuming temperatures cold enough to be worthy of the name. 45 degrees doesn't cut it. Mercedes has stated that it takes about 8 hours on average for the car to reach temperature equilibrium (and I agree that's about right) with the ambient temperature. On a windy night it takes less time and in a well sheltered area a bit longer. Once at equilibrium, wind makes no further contribution. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
i've spent much of the best times of my life below ambient temperature; but then again, i *like* it in the Dez. ;-) cheers! e Jim Cathey wrote: I'm not talking about Wind Chill Factor (TM, all rights reserved, etc.), I'm talking about being chilled faster via wind. Wind chill, for short. It's an operating mechanism, just not exactly the same as for fur-less mammals. Humans also rarely get below ambient temperature. Until they are long past caring. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
Jim - at the risk of starting a whole new thread, Wind Chill applies only to living things (animate) that have a circulating system (blood). Inanimate objects like machinery may cool faster if wind currents blow on them, but the concept of lower than ambient wind chill temperatures does NOT apply! So when the weather man says the temperature is -10, with a wind chill of -25, that does not mean that a block of metal sees anything other than -10. Werner - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Block Heater The block heater puts out a steady output of heat. Most block heaters use 750 watts, and that can be translated into an average number of BTUs or My MB ones measure about 450W. Engine will eventually get to about body temperature with enough time, unless sitting in an arctic blast. (Wind chill comes into effect on anything heated.) -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
Jim - at the risk of starting a whole new thread, Wind Chill applies only to living things (animate) that have a circulating system (blood). Inanimate objects like machinery may cool faster if wind currents blow on them, but the concept of lower than ambient wind chill temperatures does NOT apply! So when the weather man says the temperature is -10, with a wind chill of -25, that does not mean that a block of metal sees anything other than -10. I prefer to think that it applies to both, but the common tables aren't designed for dry inanimate objects. So, your car's 'feels as cold as X in still air' number will be different than yours, but the effect still applies so long as the thing is warmer than ambient. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
I guess you could say that there is circulation in the engine as convection moves the coolant around. So if there is circulation wind chill comes into play? Mike - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater) Jim - at the risk of starting a whole new thread, Wind Chill applies only to living things (animate) that have a circulating system (blood). Inanimate objects like machinery may cool faster if wind currents blow on them, but the concept of lower than ambient wind chill temperatures does NOT apply! So when the weather man says the temperature is -10, with a wind chill of -25, that does not mean that a block of metal sees anything other than -10. I prefer to think that it applies to both, but the common tables aren't designed for dry inanimate objects. So, your car's 'feels as cold as X in still air' number will be different than yours, but the effect still applies so long as the thing is warmer than ambient. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
Wind Chill is an expression that is supposed to take into account humidity and ventilation to figure the extra cooling on exposed skin as a result of the evaporation of moisture in that exposed skin. it sounds impressive in the news reports, but since most people don't have much flesh exposed below freezing temps and most of our MBZs don't have any flesh to lose moisture from, it's not really very relevant. cheers! e Mike Canfield wrote: I guess you could say that there is circulation in the engine as convection moves the coolant around. So if there is circulation wind chill comes into play? Mike - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater) Jim - at the risk of starting a whole new thread, Wind Chill applies only to living things (animate) that have a circulating system (blood). Inanimate objects like machinery may cool faster if wind currents blow on them, but the concept of lower than ambient wind chill temperatures does NOT apply! So when the weather man says the temperature is -10, with a wind chill of -25, that does not mean that a block of metal sees anything other than -10. I prefer to think that it applies to both, but the common tables aren't designed for dry inanimate objects. So, your car's 'feels as cold as X in still air' number will be different than yours, but the effect still applies so long as the thing is warmer than ambient. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
It may not be relevant but I tell you it has an effect. If you park out in a windy spot as opposed to a shielded spot on a cold night, you will notice a difference not only in starting but in how stiff the whole car is. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ernest breakfield Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater) Wind Chill is an expression that is supposed to take into account humidity and ventilation to figure the extra cooling on exposed skin as a result of the evaporation of moisture in that exposed skin. it sounds impressive in the news reports, but since most people don't have much flesh exposed below freezing temps and most of our MBZs don't have any flesh to lose moisture from, it's not really very relevant. cheers! e Mike Canfield wrote: I guess you could say that there is circulation in the engine as convection moves the coolant around. So if there is circulation wind chill comes into play? Mike - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater) Jim - at the risk of starting a whole new thread, Wind Chill applies only to living things (animate) that have a circulating system (blood). Inanimate objects like machinery may cool faster if wind currents blow on them, but the concept of lower than ambient wind chill temperatures does NOT apply! So when the weather man says the temperature is -10, with a wind chill of -25, that does not mean that a block of metal sees anything other than -10. I prefer to think that it applies to both, but the common tables aren't designed for dry inanimate objects. So, your car's 'feels as cold as X in still air' number will be different than yours, but the effect still applies so long as the thing is warmer than ambient. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
Werner Fehlauer wrote: Jim - at the risk of starting a whole new thread, Wind Chill applies only to living things (animate) that have a circulating system (blood). Inanimate objects like machinery may cool faster if wind currents blow on them, but the concept of lower than ambient wind chill temperatures does NOT apply! So when the weather man says the temperature is -10, with a wind chill of -25, that does not mean that a block of metal sees anything other than -10. Air movement (wind) does change the rate of heat transfer (providing the air and the object are at different temps). When the engine fan in your car doesn't work, the engine can overheat if the engine is loaded, while it shouldn't if the fan (wind) is working. Wind will cool the engine QUICKER than if there is no wind. In the case of the block heater and wind chill the temperature of the engine will never drop below ambient, but the rate at which it cools IS correlated to wind speed. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater)
wind will obviously help a vehicle to cool down to closer to ambient temps faster since it's last been used than if it hadn't been parked in the wind; but if the same vehicle had been parked in the sheltered spot for long enough, it would be the same temp eventually. in your example, it's just the factor of the wind circulating the air so that the vehicle reached ambient temps sooner than if it had been sheltered. the point was that since there isn't any evaporation involved, it isn't going to be any *colder* than the ambient temps (as Wind Chill would), and it's not truly what we call Wind Chill. cheers! e R A Bennell wrote: It may not be relevant but I tell you it has an effect. If you park out in a windy spot as opposed to a shielded spot on a cold night, you will notice a difference not only in starting but in how stiff the whole car is. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ernest breakfield Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater) Wind Chill is an expression that is supposed to take into account humidity and ventilation to figure the extra cooling on exposed skin as a result of the evaporation of moisture in that exposed skin. it sounds impressive in the news reports, but since most people don't have much flesh exposed below freezing temps and most of our MBZs don't have any flesh to lose moisture from, it's not really very relevant. cheers! e Mike Canfield wrote: I guess you could say that there is circulation in the engine as convection moves the coolant around. So if there is circulation wind chill comes into play? Mike - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill (was Block Heater) Jim - at the risk of starting a whole new thread, Wind Chill applies only to living things (animate) that have a circulating system (blood). Inanimate objects like machinery may cool faster if wind currents blow on them, but the concept of lower than ambient wind chill temperatures does NOT apply! So when the weather man says the temperature is -10, with a wind chill of -25, that does not mean that a block of metal sees anything other than -10. I prefer to think that it applies to both, but the common tables aren't designed for dry inanimate objects. So, your car's 'feels as cold as X in still air' number will be different than yours, but the effect still applies so long as the thing is warmer than ambient. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
