Re: [MBZ] Building question
I go to the Menards in Grand Forks ND. On 30/04/2014 5:58 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: Menards is in Canadia? Or is this from your forays south of the border? Dan former Menards shopper On Apr 30, 2014, at 6:35 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 30/04/2014 5:28 PM, Fmiser wrote: Rich Thomas wrote: Deck screws if you must Curt wrote: I've been using Scorpion brand square drive deck screws, way better than trying to drive phillips head... I much prefer Torx over square, hex, or phillips when dealing with high torque. Much more of the torque goes into turning the screw rather than spreading the head like square (Robertson) or hex (Allen). And it doesn't require axial pressure to retain engagement like phillips. For the curious, an extensive list of drives is on wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_screw -- Philip, unrelated to the screw drive ___ Menards certainly has an extensive assortment of screws. I do like some of the specialty ones intended for serious wood building. Available in quite long sizes, big self drilling threads, big heads with built in washers, and the torque drive too, if I recall correctly. Not all that expensive either. I have not used many of these to date but I sometimes look at them and think, boy, I should buy some of those to have on hand. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Rich Thomas wrote: Deck screws if you must Curt wrote: I've been using Scorpion brand square drive deck screws, way better than trying to drive phillips head... I much prefer Torx over square, hex, or phillips when dealing with high torque. Much more of the torque goes into turning the screw rather than spreading the head like square (Robertson) or hex (Allen). And it doesn't require axial pressure to retain engagement like phillips. For the curious, an extensive list of drives is on wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_screw -- Philip, unrelated to the screw drive ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
On 30/04/2014 5:28 PM, Fmiser wrote: Rich Thomas wrote: Deck screws if you must Curt wrote: I've been using Scorpion brand square drive deck screws, way better than trying to drive phillips head... I much prefer Torx over square, hex, or phillips when dealing with high torque. Much more of the torque goes into turning the screw rather than spreading the head like square (Robertson) or hex (Allen). And it doesn't require axial pressure to retain engagement like phillips. For the curious, an extensive list of drives is on wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_screw -- Philip, unrelated to the screw drive ___ Menards certainly has an extensive assortment of screws. I do like some of the specialty ones intended for serious wood building. Available in quite long sizes, big self drilling threads, big heads with built in washers, and the torque drive too, if I recall correctly. Not all that expensive either. I have not used many of these to date but I sometimes look at them and think, boy, I should buy some of those to have on hand. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Menards is in Canadia? Or is this from your forays south of the border? Dan former Menards shopper On Apr 30, 2014, at 6:35 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 30/04/2014 5:28 PM, Fmiser wrote: Rich Thomas wrote: Deck screws if you must Curt wrote: I've been using Scorpion brand square drive deck screws, way better than trying to drive phillips head... I much prefer Torx over square, hex, or phillips when dealing with high torque. Much more of the torque goes into turning the screw rather than spreading the head like square (Robertson) or hex (Allen). And it doesn't require axial pressure to retain engagement like phillips. For the curious, an extensive list of drives is on wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_screw -- Philip, unrelated to the screw drive ___ Menards certainly has an extensive assortment of screws. I do like some of the specialty ones intended for serious wood building. Available in quite long sizes, big self drilling threads, big heads with built in washers, and the torque drive too, if I recall correctly. Not all that expensive either. I have not used many of these to date but I sometimes look at them and think, boy, I should buy some of those to have on hand. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Deck screws if you must --R On 4/28/14 7:29 PM, Larry Turner wrote: My apologies -- I meant to say Dry Wall Screws - Duh.. Sorry Larry On 4/28/2014 4:09 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Now that part makes sense! Sometimes the building inspectors won't even let you use screws. Nails have more resistence to shear if I understand right. Unless you buy the right screws. Simpson Strong Tie folks have special screws intended for use with some of their fasteners for example. A couple of years back, my brother in law was building a deck on the back of his house. I was giving him some advice and suggested he use screws with the joist hangers. The building inspector made him remove the screws and drive the short nails. I used the screws (and not the Simpson ones as I don't think they existed then) when I built my deck/screened porch, in 1984 and it has not fallen down yet. I like using screws. They tend to pull things in nice and tight. They are also more removable if one changes one's mind and needs to remove the recently installed stud. Maybe tie it together with screws and once satisfied that one is not going to change things any more, then go back with the air nailer and drive the recommended number of nails too. Who was claiming to be a belt and suspenders type of fellow recently - ?? On 28/04/2014 6:29 PM, Larry Turner wrote: My apologies -- I meant to say Dry Wall Screws - Duh.. Sorry Larry On 4/28/2014 4:09 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
And then you need to buy the right ones if you are using treated lumber so that the chemical does not eat the screw. On 29/04/2014 8:21 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: Deck screws if you must --R On 4/28/14 7:29 PM, Larry Turner wrote: My apologies -- I meant to say Dry Wall Screws - Duh.. Sorry Larry On 4/28/2014 4:09 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Funny you mention that. The builders place I go to for my stuff told me that the special screws were no better than the regular galvanized/coated deck screws with the new formulation of the treating treatment stuff. They don't even carry the special screws. Stainless steel if you must then, and be prepared to pay big dinero for them. --R On 4/29/14 11:52 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: And then you need to buy the right ones if you are using treated lumber so that the chemical does not eat the screw. On 29/04/2014 8:21 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: Deck screws if you must --R On 4/28/14 7:29 PM, Larry Turner wrote: My apologies -- I meant to say Dry Wall Screws - Duh.. Sorry Larry On 4/28/2014 4:09 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
I guess it depends on who you talk to. I have been using the ceramic coated screws with treated lumber. Not sure the stainless ones are any better. Actual hot dipped galvanized would be nice but harder to come by. The gold anodized ones rust pretty quickly so I don't think I would use them where they are exposed to the weather. On 29/04/2014 11:24 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: Funny you mention that. The builders place I go to for my stuff told me that the special screws were no better than the regular galvanized/coated deck screws with the new formulation of the treating treatment stuff. They don't even carry the special screws. Stainless steel if you must then, and be prepared to pay big dinero for them. --R On 4/29/14 11:52 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: And then you need to buy the right ones if you are using treated lumber so that the chemical does not eat the screw. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Wouldn't plain steel nails corrode even more than coated screws? On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: I guess it depends on who you talk to. I have been using the ceramic coated screws with treated lumber. Not sure the stainless ones are any better. Actual hot dipped galvanized would be nice but harder to come by. The gold anodized ones rust pretty quickly so I don't think I would use them where they are exposed to the weather. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
The shear load rating for a #8 nail is 300 lbs. Old dry timbers are very prone to cracking and spliting. I would not use screws for that reason but instead, use nails with a good pattern to avoid splitting the grain of the old stud. Also I would use the best glue and clamps to achieve as perfect bond as possible. Just FWIW. On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Funny you mention that. The builders place I go to for my stuff told me that the special screws were no better than the regular galvanized/coated deck screws with the new formulation of the treating treatment stuff. They don't even carry the special screws. Stainless steel if you must then, and be prepared to pay big dinero for them. --R On 4/29/14 11:52 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: And then you need to buy the right ones if you are using treated lumber so that the chemical does not eat the screw. On 29/04/2014 8:21 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: Deck screws if you must --R On 4/28/14 7:29 PM, Larry Turner wrote: My apologies -- I meant to say Dry Wall Screws - Duh.. Sorry Larry On 4/28/2014 4:09 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
I believe in a belt and suspenders, and screws over nails, too! Dan Sent from my iPad On Apr 29, 2014, at 11:50 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Now that part makes sense! Sometimes the building inspectors won't even let you use screws. Nails have more resistence to shear if I understand right. Unless you buy the right screws. Simpson Strong Tie folks have special screws intended for use with some of their fasteners for example. A couple of years back, my brother in law was building a deck on the back of his house. I was giving him some advice and suggested he use screws with the joist hangers. The building inspector made him remove the screws and drive the short nails. I used the screws (and not the Simpson ones as I don't think they existed then) when I built my deck/screened porch, in 1984 and it has not fallen down yet. I like using screws. They tend to pull things in nice and tight. They are also more removable if one changes one's mind and needs to remove the recently installed stud. Maybe tie it together with screws and once satisfied that one is not going to change things any more, then go back with the air nailer and drive the recommended number of nails too. Who was claiming to be a belt and suspenders type of fellow recently - ?? On 28/04/2014 6:29 PM, Larry Turner wrote: My apologies -- I meant to say Dry Wall Screws - Duh.. Sorry Larry On 4/28/2014 4:09 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
I keep a box of 3 square drive deck screws on the shelf as a one size fits all thing. I love them for just about any rough lumber project. Dan Sent from my iPad On Apr 29, 2014, at 11:52 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: And then you need to buy the right ones if you are using treated lumber so that the chemical does not eat the screw. On 29/04/2014 8:21 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: Deck screws if you must --R On 4/28/14 7:29 PM, Larry Turner wrote: My apologies -- I meant to say Dry Wall Screws - Duh.. Sorry Larry On 4/28/2014 4:09 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
If it's old, dry, or brittle I drill a pilot hole. Nothing worse than running a screw down only to hear the wood cracking as you do so. With the quick swap drill attachments it's easy and quick to do. Dan Sent from my iPad On Apr 29, 2014, at 12:50 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: The shear load rating for a #8 nail is 300 lbs. Old dry timbers are very prone to cracking and spliting. I would not use screws for that reason but instead, use nails with a good pattern to avoid splitting the grain of the old stud. Also I would use the best glue and clamps to achieve as perfect bond as possible. Just FWIW. On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Funny you mention that. The builders place I go to for my stuff told me that the special screws were no better than the regular galvanized/coated deck screws with the new formulation of the treating treatment stuff. They don't even carry the special screws. Stainless steel if you must then, and be prepared to pay big dinero for them. --R On 4/29/14 11:52 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: And then you need to buy the right ones if you are using treated lumber so that the chemical does not eat the screw. On 29/04/2014 8:21 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: Deck screws if you must --R On 4/28/14 7:29 PM, Larry Turner wrote: My apologies -- I meant to say Dry Wall Screws - Duh.. Sorry Larry On 4/28/2014 4:09 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
I agree in regard to the pre-drilled holes. Another choice might be to through-bolt. When one is doing it for one's self one can often do much more than a trades person would do. They sort of have to do things quickly to earn a reasonable income without bankrupting the property owner. We as the property owners can usually afford the time to over-do things if we want to. Might not be absolutely necessary, but I do take some pride in doing things in a manner that I deem acceptable even if they do tend to be sometimes like 2 belts and suspenders too. Randy On 29/04/2014 12:35 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: If it's old, dry, or brittle I drill a pilot hole. Nothing worse than running a screw down only to hear the wood cracking as you do so. With the quick swap drill attachments it's easy and quick to do. Dan Sent from my iPad On Apr 29, 2014, at 12:50 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: The shear load rating for a #8 nail is 300 lbs. Old dry timbers are very prone to cracking and spliting. I would not use screws for that reason but instead, use nails with a good pattern to avoid splitting the grain of the old stud. Also I would use the best glue and clamps to achieve as perfect bond as possible. Just FWIW. On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Funny you mention that. The builders place I go to for my stuff told me that the special screws were no better than the regular galvanized/coated deck screws with the new formulation of the treating treatment stuff. They don't even carry the special screws. Stainless steel if you must then, and be prepared to pay big dinero for them. --R On 4/29/14 11:52 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: And then you need to buy the right ones if you are using treated lumber so that the chemical does not eat the screw. On 29/04/2014 8:21 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: Deck screws if you must --R On 4/28/14 7:29 PM, Larry Turner wrote: My apologies -- I meant to say Dry Wall Screws - Duh.. Sorry Larry On 4/28/2014 4:09 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
I've been using Scorpion brand square drive deck screws, way better than trying to drive phillips head... -Curt Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:21:47 -0400 From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Building question Message-ID: 535fa76b.50...@constructivity.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Deck screws if you must --R On 4/28/14 7:29 PM, Larry Turner wrote: My apologies -- I meant to say Dry Wall Screws - Duh.. Sorry Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Funny you should mention that. I'm building a shed to put snowmobiles in. It'll be 4x4 posts with a shelf at 48 and a roof over top. This year it'll get wrapped in a green tarp, next year it might get T111 siding if finances allow. Keeping the machines out under tarps all summer is hard on them. I'm planning on 8x12 which will allow for 2 big modern machines under the shelf and 2 or 3 (hoping on 3) on the shelf. My plan for the shelf is 2x6s on the outside (so build a rectangle 8x12) with 2x4 on 16 centers down the middle. I'm planning to through bolt the 2x6 outers to the 4x4 posts, I don't want there to be any sway in the posts. I'll run 4 deck screws through the 2x6 ends into the 4x4s while avoiding the bolts. Probably ought to deal with a certain '78 240D first though. -Curt Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 14:24:00 -0500 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Building question Message-ID: 535ffc50.8060...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I agree in regard to the pre-drilled holes. Another choice might be to through-bolt. When one is doing it for one's self one can often do much more than a trades person would do. They sort of have to do things quickly to earn a reasonable income without bankrupting the property owner. We as the property owners can usually afford the time to over-do things if we want to. Might not be absolutely necessary, but I do take some pride in doing things in a manner that I deem acceptable even if they do tend to be sometimes like 2 belts and suspenders too. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT On 4/9/2013 10:14 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a cottage. Really it's a tiny thing that resembles a large shack! I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? I can't realistically do this because it extends through the ceiling into the second floor. Any thoughts? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Everywhere I have swung a hammer has required treated lumber for sill plates. Dan Sent from my iPad On Apr 28, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Larry Turner l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT On 4/9/2013 10:14 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a cottage. Really it's a tiny thing that resembles a large shack! I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? I can't realistically do this because it extends through the ceiling into the second floor. Any thoughts? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
With a moisture barrier between concrete sill or floor or whatever you have, and treated plates. 2x4s with replacing the bottom section and sistering up a few feet will work, you can put some construction adhesive on the splice and sister too, then a few nails to hold it all together. Ain't goin nowhere. --R (belt and suspenders) On 4/28/14 3:47 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: Everywhere I have swung a hammer has required treated lumber for sill plates. Dan Sent from my iPad On Apr 28, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Larry Turner l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT On 4/9/2013 10:14 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a cottage. Really it's a tiny thing that resembles a large shack! I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? I can't realistically do this because it extends through the ceiling into the second floor. Any thoughts? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
I believe what you describe is what is known as a balloon framed house, which is no longer legal to build. Balloon framing used the same stud from sill plate to roof, with the second floor attached to the stud mid point [about] . As the building ages, second floor joists sag or go soft, the building balloons at the second floor, or the whole building simply racks out of square. First, check with your local building code people to see what they will allow for repairs in the balloon frame home [I'm guessing many in your area are likely built this way, since it was popular at the time. What local codes allow will influence your ability to insure, so worth the effort to get the straight scoop. Sister stud repair: Not ideal, but necessary in older buildings. I like to use a generous overlap with both glue and well spaced nails. If space allows, I like to use the double sister method, which sandwiches the old stud with a 2x on each side. Is the stud 2x4 or 2x6 ? If it was built before 1920 it's likely full dimension lumber which means the stud will be a full 2 inches thick x a full 4 or 6 inches thick.. modern lumber gives us 2x4's that measure 1 1/2 x 3 1/2 so you may want to rip down a thicker piece to get correct contact with inner and outer wall with the sister studs. Sills of course need to be pressure treated wood on a solid foundation and the studs re-attached properly so they don't kick out [common with the loading on balloon framed building as the roof sags and or the second floor sags. Good luck, I count among my personal blessings that I'm to far away to offer to help.. ;))) Grant... On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Larry Turner l02tur...@comcast.netwrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT On 4/9/2013 10:14 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a cottage. Really it's a tiny thing that resembles a large shack! I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? I can't realistically do this because it extends through the ceiling into the second floor. Any thoughts? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
'Don't even hafta cut out the rotted part. (Of course, cut it out if you'll feel better.) Just sister another section of stud from new sill plate (preferably treated) up 2 to 3 feet above the rot and splice the old and new securely together. 'Don't hafta go all the way to top plate. Larry, why can't he use dry wall studs. Isn't that what goes on most studs these days? :) Wilton (designed and built several houses with dry wall studs) - Original Message - From: Larry Turner l02tur...@comcast.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Building question BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT On 4/9/2013 10:14 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a cottage. Really it's a tiny thing that resembles a large shack! I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? I can't realistically do this because it extends through the ceiling into the second floor. Any thoughts? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Cut 92 5/8 long, I believe, to make up a total of 96 (8 feet) for a standard 8 foot wall section using a double top plate. Don't know the metric equivalent, sorry. Dan Sent from my iPad On Apr 28, 2014, at 4:09 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Yes, that is a normal stud length but why would it be brittle? On 28/04/2014 4:37 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: Cut 92 5/8 long, I believe, to make up a total of 96 (8 feet) for a standard 8 foot wall section using a double top plate. Don't know the metric equivalent, sorry. Dan Sent from my iPad On Apr 28, 2014, at 4:09 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Those studs are in compression, mostly, and if sistered to another stud, and fastened to an inner or outer wall in some fashion, you have no issues with brittle. --R On 4/28/14 5:41 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: Yes, that is a normal stud length but why would it be brittle? On 28/04/2014 4:37 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: Cut 92 5/8 long, I believe, to make up a total of 96 (8 feet) for a standard 8 foot wall section using a double top plate. Don't know the metric equivalent, sorry. Dan Sent from my iPad On Apr 28, 2014, at 4:09 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Yeahbut you've only ever apparently worked in the city. Remember Dimitri said it was a cottage that later got amended to shack. Hell when we had the addition put on the camp dad went to get a building permit and had the following conversation: Building inspector: Its a camp right? Dad: Yeah Building inspector: You're not going to live there full time right? Dad: Yeah Building inspector: Its back away from the road and can't be seen right? Dad: Yeah Building inspector: Why are you bothering me with it? Redneck towns are the best. When I did my bathroom renovation a couple years ago it didn't occur to me to get a building permit until I'd taken the wall off... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 15:47:56 -0400 From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Building question Message-ID: 4103686e-3f4a-42af-9927-f818ff2e3...@penoff.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Everywhere I have swung a hammer has required treated lumber for sill plates. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Curt Raymond wrote: Yeahbut you've only ever apparently worked in the city. Remember Dimitri said it was a cottage that later got amended to shack. Hell when we had the addition put on the camp dad went to get a building permit and had the following conversation: Building inspector: Its a camp right? Dad: Yeah Building inspector: You're not going to live there full time right? Dad: Yeah Building inspector: Its back away from the road and can't be seen right? Dad: Yeah Building inspector: Why are you bothering me with it? Redneck towns are the best. Until 30 years later when somebody comes along with guns drawn, feigns surprise that there's a domicile on your 'vacant land' without a permit, and demands that you tear down the 'illegal structure', or apply for a permit to bring it up to 2013 code and pay $100k to have a power line run to it. http://www.laweekly.com/2011-06-23/news/l-a-county-s-private-property-war/ http://www.housethehomeless.org/creating-homelessness-in-the-antelope-valley-part-1/ Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
My apologies -- I meant to say Dry Wall Screws - Duh.. Sorry Larry On 4/28/2014 4:09 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: What is a dry wall stud? Are we talking about something different than a basic 2X4? On 28/04/2014 2:42 PM, Larry Turner wrote: BTW, don't make the mistake of using dry wall studs. You probably know all of this but they are much too brittle. Good Luck - LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Building question
What you have described is known here as a balloon framed structure, which BTW is not allowed by building code anywhere I know of if, as you describe, the studs are two story. The fix you propose is less than an perfect fix, but likely your only option. I would suggest you clean, glue and clamp the sister stud onto the solid portion of the existing stud with good overlap to engage as much structure as possible. Also.. check your local building codes to see if such repair is allowed.. Might be an insurance concern? Grant... Balloon framing normally refers to a scenario where a long stud extends all of the way from the bottom plate to the top plate on a 2 storey wall. I doubt this shack is a 2 storey. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Building question
On 09/04/2013 9:14 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a cottage. Really it's a tiny thing that resembles a large shack! I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? I can't realistically do this because it extends through the ceiling into the second floor. Any thoughts? Ooops! Blew that one. I guess it is balloon framing. Did not catch the fact that the shack is a big multi-floor shack. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Yes it's a two story! It's balloon framed. The upper plate extends up to a certain point as the roof starts to angle- it's gambrel style. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 11, 2013, at 12:52 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: What you have described is known here as a balloon framed structure, which BTW is not allowed by building code anywhere I know of if, as you describe, the studs are two story. The fix you propose is less than an perfect fix, but likely your only option. I would suggest you clean, glue and clamp the sister stud onto the solid portion of the existing stud with good overlap to engage as much structure as possible. Also.. check your local building codes to see if such repair is allowed.. Might be an insurance concern? Grant... Balloon framing normally refers to a scenario where a long stud extends all of the way from the bottom plate to the top plate on a 2 storey wall. I doubt this shack is a 2 storey. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Lots of old homes built this way; surely they do not expect the owner to bulldoze the house and rebuild for such a repair that is fairly common. On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: What you have described is known here as a balloon framed structure, which BTW is not allowed by building code anywhere I know of if, as you describe, the studs are two story. The fix you propose is less than an perfect fix, but likely your only option. I would suggest you clean, glue and clamp the sister stud onto the solid portion of the existing stud with good overlap to engage as much structure as possible. Also.. check your local building codes to see if such repair is allowed.. Might be an insurance concern? Grant... On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:14 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a cottage. Really it's a tiny thing that resembles a large shack! I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? I can't realistically do this because it extends through the ceiling into the second floor. Any thoughts? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Yes this was common practice for many years. Use treated lumber, which is relatively cheap, so a little overbuilding is fairly inexpensive compared to the risk being averted. Good Luck On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote: Lots of old homes built this way; surely they do not expect the owner to bulldoze the house and rebuild for such a repair that is fairly common. On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: What you have described is known here as a balloon framed structure, which BTW is not allowed by building code anywhere I know of if, as you describe, the studs are two story. The fix you propose is less than an perfect fix, but likely your only option. I would suggest you clean, glue and clamp the sister stud onto the solid portion of the existing stud with good overlap to engage as much structure as possible. Also.. check your local building codes to see if such repair is allowed.. Might be an insurance concern? Grant... On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:14 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a cottage. Really it's a tiny thing that resembles a large shack! I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? I can't realistically do this because it extends through the ceiling into the second floor. Any thoughts? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Building question
It would be worthwhile to add some fire-blocking in the walls if you have the sheetrock open. Balloon framing allows flames to climb right up to the attic whereas the newer platform framing stops it (at least for awhile). --R On 4/10/13 12:05 PM, Brian Toscano wrote: Lots of old homes built this way; surely they do not expect the owner to bulldoze the house and rebuild for such a repair that is fairly common. On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: What you have described is known here as a balloon framed structure, which BTW is not allowed by building code anywhere I know of if, as you describe, the studs are two story. The fix you propose is less than an perfect fix, but likely your only option. I would suggest you clean, glue and clamp the sister stud onto the solid portion of the existing stud with good overlap to engage as much structure as possible. Also.. check your local building codes to see if such repair is allowed.. Might be an insurance concern? Grant... On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:14 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a cottage. Really it's a tiny thing that resembles a large shack! I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? I can't realistically do this because it extends through the ceiling into the second floor. Any thoughts? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Thanks all for the insightful input. I ended up taking the splice and scab approach. I used wood glue and plenty of screws on both sides and PT lumber. Just below the ceiling there is a one by oriented in an upright podition which sits in a notched recess in the stud. The second story floor joists then are affixed to the stud and rest on the one by. I extended the scab up to this one by so some level of floor joist support is gained. As far as blocking for fire protection- there is no point since the ceiling is the floor with exposed joists. Not a very significant structure but it does have charm. A very typical 1930s Maine cottage with a whooping 600 sq feet! Sent from my iPhone On Apr 10, 2013, at 12:18 PM, Peter Hertzing phertz...@gmail.com wrote: Yes this was common practice for many years. Use treated lumber, which is relatively cheap, so a little overbuilding is fairly inexpensive compared to the risk being averted. Good Luck On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote: Lots of old homes built this way; surely they do not expect the owner to bulldoze the house and rebuild for such a repair that is fairly common. On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: What you have described is known here as a balloon framed structure, which BTW is not allowed by building code anywhere I know of if, as you describe, the studs are two story. The fix you propose is less than an perfect fix, but likely your only option. I would suggest you clean, glue and clamp the sister stud onto the solid portion of the existing stud with good overlap to engage as much structure as possible. Also.. check your local building codes to see if such repair is allowed.. Might be an insurance concern? Grant... On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:14 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a cottage. Really it's a tiny thing that resembles a large shack! I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? I can't realistically do this because it extends through the ceiling into the second floor. Any thoughts? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Overlap the sistering section 12 to 14 or so with/onto the old stud and nail or screw the two together from both sides with nails or screws long enough to go through at least one and three quarters of the total thickness of the overlapped 2 x 4's. Just make sure the joint can't collapse (bend/buckle) in any direction Wilton - Original Message - From: dsereta...@yahoo.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 10:14 PM Subject: [MBZ] Building question I have a cottage. Really it's a tiny thing that resembles a large shack! I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? I can't realistically do this because it extends through the ceiling into the second floor. Any thoughts? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Building question
What you have described is known here as a balloon framed structure, which BTW is not allowed by building code anywhere I know of if, as you describe, the studs are two story. The fix you propose is less than an perfect fix, but likely your only option. I would suggest you clean, glue and clamp the sister stud onto the solid portion of the existing stud with good overlap to engage as much structure as possible. Also.. check your local building codes to see if such repair is allowed.. Might be an insurance concern? Grant... On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:14 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a cottage. Really it's a tiny thing that resembles a large shack! I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? I can't realistically do this because it extends through the ceiling into the second floor. Any thoughts? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Building question
dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? Nope. A scab joint is likely plenty. I would use glue (carpenters wood glue or construction adhesive) and decking screws and try to get 2ft onto good wood. Most of what a stud is doing is carrying a compression load, so if you have new wood from the bottom sill to the good part of the old stud, really all you need to prevent buckling. The sheathing does a lot, but since I tend to overbuild stuff, I'd make a scab joint. 3/4 plywood on both sides would be enough for me to be comfortable. Or another 2x4 on one side. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Building question
I have a cottage. Really it's a tiny thing that resembles a large shack! I've been doing some sill repairs but some of the studs sitting on the rotted sill have rotted as well. I was thinking about cutting out the rotted bottom section, splicing in a new piece of stud and then sistering it all up with another 2x4. Does the sistering stud have to reach all the way up to the top plate? I can't realistically do this because it extends through the ceiling into the second floor. Any thoughts? Sent from my nonMBPhone Nope As I understand you are replacing the bottom plate that the studs rest one, and the bottoms of some studs. Cut off the stud where the wood is good, cut a piece long enough to fit in where the rotted section was. You may need to jack up the wall to get this in block place. I do that by screwing a 2x10 or 2x12 on 4 or 5 studs at least, with at least 5 screws in each stud. Once the block is under the cutoff, then nail or screw your scab alongside it. Rule of thumb is the scab should be at least 3 times as long as the block above and below the joint. (6 times as long as the block) unless you run into the top or bottom plate. So for a 6 block, there is 6 below the joint, and 18 above, so a 24 scab works good. Its a rule of thumb, so don't stress is you have a 20 or 22 piece you want to use up. If it is sound, that will work just fine. In that case, I'd put 2 screws into the 6 block and at least 3 into the upper part. (the old stud) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Fmiser wrote: I would use glue (carpenters wood glue or construction adhesive) and decking screws and try to get 2ft onto good wood. Most of what a stud is doing is carrying a compression load, so if you have new wood from the bottom sill to the good part of the old stud, really all you need to prevent buckling. I'm thinking it would be best if you could cut the patch to exact length and butt it up against the new bottom of the original stud. (and splint across the butt joint with another piece of stud) That way the load would transmit straight down through the joint. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Building question
Fmiser wrote: I would use glue (carpenters wood glue or construction adhesive) and decking screws and try to get 2ft onto good wood. Most of what a stud is doing is carrying a compression load, so if you have new wood from the bottom sill to the good part of the old stud, really all you need to prevent buckling. Mitch Haley wrote: I'm thinking it would be best if you could cut the patch to exact length and butt it up against the new bottom of the original stud. (and splint across the butt joint with another piece of stud) That way the load would transmit straight down through the joint. That's what I was trying to say - but Mitch said it better. Loren described it well too. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
