subject:"Re\: \[MBZ\] I fought the saw and the saw won"


On 09/08/2013 7:25 PM, Mitch Haley wrote:

Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
Yes it's new. It does have a primer bulb, it says pump it 6 times 
warm or cold to start. I have tried pumping it 6 times, 20 times, no 
times make no difference when it gets to not wanting to start


The primer bulb sucks from a carb vent and pumps back to the tank.
If it's sucking fuel, the carby should be full.
You may just have a defective carby.

Mitch.

Sounds to me, more like the primer is not sucking the gas up and feeding 
it to the carb. If it was, one would think there would be an issue of 
flooding rather than a dry spark plug.


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


On 09/08/2013 7:27 PM, Craig wrote:

On Fri, 9 Aug 2013 19:05:39 -0400 WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote:


As I was falling and jumping backward off the ladder, I threw the saw
way off the right at about 2 o'clock.  As I was getting up, I realized
that the saw was lying across the yard idling perfectly, and continued
to do so henceforth.  What it needed was a good throwing/tossing across
the yard.

Good fix, Wilton! ATTABOY!


Craig



Tried that. Did not work for me.

Maybe, my problem was that the saw was not running when I threw it.
Like Kaleb, I was struggling with a saw that would not start, and tossed 
it across the yard in a moment when my temper got the better of me.


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


Randy Bennell wrote:

Sounds to me, more like the primer is not sucking the gas up and feeding 
it to the carb. If it was, one would think there would be an issue of 
flooding rather than a dry spark plug.


The primer sucks the air out of the carb. When there's no air in the carb the 
primer bulb fills up with fuel.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


On 10/08/2013 6:20 AM, Hans Neureiter wrote:

On my tiller the choke does not seal when closed. Starts only when I squirt
some gas in the intake.



Have you looked to see if it is possible to adjust something so that the 
choke plate will close?
I have a similar problem with a couple of small engines and had not 
noticed whether the choke plate closes well.
I will have a look at mine next time I use one of them to see if that is 
an issue on my motors.


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

If you pump it too much will it flood the carb?

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 10:33 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:

 On 09/08/2013 7:25 PM, Mitch Haley wrote:
 Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
 Yes it's new. It does have a primer bulb, it says pump it 6 times warm or 
 cold to start. I have tried pumping it 6 times, 20 times, no times make no 
 difference when it gets to not wanting to start
 
 The primer bulb sucks from a carb vent and pumps back to the tank.
 If it's sucking fuel, the carby should be full.
 You may just have a defective carby.
 
 Mitch.
 Sounds to me, more like the primer is not sucking the gas up and feeding it 
 to the carb. If it was, one would think there would be an issue of flooding 
 rather than a dry spark plug.
 
 Randy
 
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

If you pump it too much will it flood the carb?


I don't see how.
If the bulb fills with fuel, that pretty much tells you the fuel filter and carb 
inlet screen are OK, but there could be other things wrong with the carb.


Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


If you pump it too much will it flood the carb?

Sent from my iPhone


It is 'sposed ta.  If it is working right, it will flood the carb.

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Ok I just wondered if maybe pumping it too much was flooding it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 11:18 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
 If you pump it too much will it flood the carb?
 
 I don't see how.
 If the bulb fills with fuel, that pretty much tells you the fuel filter and 
 carb inlet screen are OK, but there could be other things wrong with the carb.
 
 Mitch.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Ok I just wondered if maybe pumping it too much was flooding it.


I don't think so.
Loren does.

If you went here, you'd get the definitive answer:
http://arboristsite.com/chainsaw/

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-12 Thread WILTON


And run out all over the place.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won



If you pump it too much will it flood the carb?


Sent from my iPhone


It is 'sposed ta.  If it is working right, it will flood the carb.

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Ok I just wondered if maybe pumping it too much was flooding it.


I don't think so.
Loren does.

If you went here, you'd get the definitive answer:
http://arboristsite.com/chainsaw/

__


I don't know that for sure, so I defer to Mitch's expertise.  I can't 
say that I ever flooded one, but the rental Huskq... concrete saws 
that would not run, they said were flooded after we took them back. 
But those have a choke, so I think maybe I got the different types 
mixed up.  I think EPA made chokes disappear.  Thus K'leb's problem...


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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-12 Thread Alex Chamberlain

On Aug 12, 2013 11:13 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

   I think EPA made chokes disappear.
My Husky 445 saw that I bought in 2010 or so and the 3xx-something trimmer
that I bought a week ago both have manual chokes.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

So after calling about 5 different places listed on the poulan site none of 
them wanted to mess with it, said they do not do warranty work. I called lowes 
and the guy said he was 95% sure they would exchange it if I brought it down 
there. I may try that just to see what happens. Long story short, poulan is 
junk. I figured it was junk but I figured it would at least work the 1 time a 
year I may need to use it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Aug 12, 2013 11:13 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I think EPA made chokes disappear.
 My Husky 445 saw that I bought in 2010 or so and the 3xx-something trimmer
 that I bought a week ago both have manual chokes.
 
 Alex
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Ok so as I was loading it up to take it to lowes I decided to pull the rope. No 
prime, no choke no nothing it start and ran great on the first pull. Nice and 
responsive etc. turned it off, tried to start it again, would not start. Took 
it back to lowes and I will be damned if they did not swap it out with no 
problem at all. I am impressed. So now I have another brand new junk poulan saw 
and will see what happens

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote:

 So after calling about 5 different places listed on the poulan site none of 
 them wanted to mess with it, said they do not do warranty work. I called 
 lowes and the guy said he was 95% sure they would exchange it if I brought it 
 down there. I may try that just to see what happens. Long story short, poulan 
 is junk. I figured it was junk but I figured it would at least work the 1 
 time a year I may need to use it.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On Aug 12, 2013 11:13 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I think EPA made chokes disappear.
 My Husky 445 saw that I bought in 2010 or so and the 3xx-something trimmer
 that I bought a week ago both have manual chokes.
 
 Alex
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-12 Thread Craig

On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:12:24 -0500 Kaleb C. Striplin
ka...@striplin.net wrote:

 Ok so as I was loading it up to take it to lowes I decided to pull the
 rope. No prime, no choke no nothing it start and ran great on the first
 pull. Nice and responsive etc. turned it off, tried to start it again,
 would not start. Took it back to lowes and I will be damned if they did
 not swap it out with no problem at all. I am impressed. So now I have
 another brand new junk poulan saw and will see what happens

If you bought a Poulan saw from a saw shop, I'm sure you would get a much
better saw.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

I don't think so either because the carb should have a return line from the 
carb back to the tank.

I put a squeeze bulb primer on my snowmobile years ago like you might see on a 
boat. Squeeze the bulb and it fills the carb with gas, excess shoots out the 
overflow back to the tank. Makes starting the old sled a breeze, especially the 
really old ones where the tank is under the engine.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 12:57:31 -0400
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
Message-ID: 520913fb.5030...@voyager.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
 Ok I just wondered if maybe pumping it too much was flooding it.

I don't think so.
Loren does.

If you went here, you'd get the definitive answer:
http://arboristsite.com/chainsaw/
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-12 Thread Rich Thomas

You should be able to get store credit on returns too if you want to buy 
another kind or use the credit to buy other stuff.


--R


On 8/12/13 3:12 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Ok so as I was loading it up to take it to lowes I decided to pull the rope. No 
prime, no choke no nothing it start and ran great on the first pull. Nice and 
responsive etc. turned it off, tried to start it again, would not start. Took 
it back to lowes and I will be damned if they did not swap it out with no 
problem at all. I am impressed. So now I have another brand new junk poulan saw 
and will see what happens

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote:


So after calling about 5 different places listed on the poulan site none of 
them wanted to mess with it, said they do not do warranty work. I called lowes 
and the guy said he was 95% sure they would exchange it if I brought it down 
there. I may try that just to see what happens. Long story short, poulan is 
junk. I figured it was junk but I figured it would at least work the 1 time a 
year I may need to use it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote:


On Aug 12, 2013 11:13 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

I think EPA made chokes disappear.

My Husky 445 saw that I bought in 2010 or so and the 3xx-something trimmer
that I bought a week ago both have manual chokes.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Ok so as I was loading it up to take it to lowes I decided to pull 
the rope. No prime, no choke no nothing it start and ran great on 
the first pull. Nice and responsive etc. turned it off, tried to 
start it again, would not start. Took it back to lowes and I will be 
damned if they did not swap it out with no problem at all. I am 
impressed. So now I have another brand new junk poulan saw and will 
see what happens


Sent from my iPhone


Does it have the primer bulb and a choke?  If so, yes you can flood it.

My general practice for starting chaninsaws is to choke it, push the 
primer bulb if it has one; pull the rope until it starts and dies. 
Then you know it is flooded.  Then put the choke off and pull the 
rope until it starts.  On my stihl this is generally 2 pulls, one to 
flood it and one to start it.  The poulans sometimes start this well, 
and sometimes don't.  The poulans don't start at all then the plastic 
fuel pickup tubing has rotted off from the crappy stuff the sell as 
gasoline these days.  The Stihl must have some other way of picking 
up the fuel from the tank.



On a flooded gasoline engine mit carburetor,  you open the throttle 
wide and crank.  THat works for chainsaws too.


Seems to me that maybe your saw was flooded.  May be or maybe not 
Can't tell from here.


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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won



Quick - before you put fuel in it etc. - take it back and see if they 
will swap you for a Husquvarna.

Will cost a bit more but you will be happier in the long run.

Randy


On 12/08/2013 2:12 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Ok so as I was loading it up to take it to lowes I decided to pull the rope. No 
prime, no choke no nothing it start and ran great on the first pull. Nice and 
responsive etc. turned it off, tried to start it again, would not start. Took 
it back to lowes and I will be damned if they did not swap it out with no 
problem at all. I am impressed. So now I have another brand new junk poulan saw 
and will see what happens

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote:


So after calling about 5 different places listed on the poulan site none of 
them wanted to mess with it, said they do not do warranty work. I called lowes 
and the guy said he was 95% sure they would exchange it if I brought it down 
there. I may try that just to see what happens. Long story short, poulan is 
junk. I figured it was junk but I figured it would at least work the 1 time a 
year I may need to use it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote:


On Aug 12, 2013 11:13 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

I think EPA made chokes disappear.

My Husky 445 saw that I bought in 2010 or so and the 3xx-something trimmer
that I bought a week ago both have manual chokes.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


On 12/08/2013 2:35 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
Ok so as I was loading it up to take it to lowes I decided to pull 
the rope. No prime, no choke no nothing it start and ran great on the 
first pull. Nice and responsive etc. turned it off, tried to start it 
again, would not start. Took it back to lowes and I will be damned if 
they did not swap it out with no problem at all. I am impressed. So 
now I have another brand new junk poulan saw and will see what happens


Sent from my iPhone


Does it have the primer bulb and a choke?  If so, yes you can flood it.

My general practice for starting chaninsaws is to choke it, push the 
primer bulb if it has one; pull the rope until it starts and dies. 
Then you know it is flooded.  Then put the choke off and pull the rope 
until it starts.  On my stihl this is generally 2 pulls, one to flood 
it and one to start it.  The poulans sometimes start this well, and 
sometimes don't.  The poulans don't start at all then the plastic fuel 
pickup tubing has rotted off from the crappy stuff the sell as 
gasoline these days.  The Stihl must have some other way of picking up 
the fuel from the tank.



On a flooded gasoline engine mit carburetor,  you open the throttle 
wide and crank.  THat works for chainsaws too.


Seems to me that maybe your saw was flooded.  May be or maybe not 
Can't tell from here.


___


The classic way to start the older saws that did not have the primer was 
to pull the choke on and squeeze the trigger to open the throttle and 
push in the pin to hold it wide open and then pull on the cord.


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Well they just swaped it out but I have not opened it yet or 
anything.  I thought about seeing if there was a different brand 
up there that would be better.


On 8/12/2013 2:34 PM, Rich Thomas wrote:
You should be able to get store credit on returns too if you 
want to buy another kind or use the credit to buy other stuff.


--R


On 8/12/13 3:12 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
Ok so as I was loading it up to take it to lowes I decided to 
pull the rope. No prime, no choke no nothing it start and ran 
great on the first pull. Nice and responsive etc. turned it 
off, tried to start it again, would not start. Took it back to 
lowes and I will be damned if they did not swap it out with no 
problem at all. I am impressed. So now I have another brand new 
junk poulan saw and will see what happens


Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin 
ka...@striplin.net wrote:


So after calling about 5 different places listed on the poulan 
site none of them wanted to mess with it, said they do not do 
warranty work. I called lowes and the guy said he was 95% sure 
they would exchange it if I brought it down there. I may try 
that just to see what happens. Long story short, poulan is 
junk. I figured it was junk but I figured it would at least 
work the 1 time a year I may need to use it.


Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Alex Chamberlain 
apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote:


On Aug 12, 2013 11:13 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com 
wrote:

I think EPA made chokes disappear.
My Husky 445 saw that I bought in 2010 or so and the 
3xx-something trimmer

that I bought a week ago both have manual chokes.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


Yes, it has a bulb and a choke.

On 8/12/2013 2:35 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
Ok so as I was loading it up to take it to lowes I decided to 
pull the rope. No prime, no choke no nothing it start and ran 
great on the first pull. Nice and responsive etc. turned it 
off, tried to start it again, would not start. Took it back to 
lowes and I will be damned if they did not swap it out with no 
problem at all. I am impressed. So now I have another brand new 
junk poulan saw and will see what happens


Sent from my iPhone


Does it have the primer bulb and a choke?  If so, yes you can 
flood it.


My general practice for starting chaninsaws is to choke it, push 
the primer bulb if it has one; pull the rope until it starts and 
dies. Then you know it is flooded.  Then put the choke off and 
pull the rope until it starts.  On my stihl this is generally 2 
pulls, one to flood it and one to start it.  The poulans 
sometimes start this well, and sometimes don't.  The poulans 
don't start at all then the plastic fuel pickup tubing has 
rotted off from the crappy stuff the sell as gasoline these 
days.  The Stihl must have some other way of picking up the fuel 
from the tank.



On a flooded gasoline engine mit carburetor,  you open the 
throttle wide and crank.  THat works for chainsaws too.


Seems to me that maybe your saw was flooded.  May be or maybe 
not Can't tell from here.


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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

I thought about that, and I am sure they will, I would be willing 
to pay extra for a better saw.  I thought these were made by 
Husquvarna though?


On 8/12/2013 2:45 PM, Randy Bennell wrote:


Quick - before you put fuel in it etc. - take it back and see if 
they will swap you for a Husquvarna.

Will cost a bit more but you will be happier in the long run.

Randy


On 12/08/2013 2:12 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
Ok so as I was loading it up to take it to lowes I decided to 
pull the rope. No prime, no choke no nothing it start and ran 
great on the first pull. Nice and responsive etc. turned it 
off, tried to start it again, would not start. Took it back to 
lowes and I will be damned if they did not swap it out with no 
problem at all. I am impressed. So now I have another brand new 
junk poulan saw and will see what happens


Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin 
ka...@striplin.net wrote:


So after calling about 5 different places listed on the poulan 
site none of them wanted to mess with it, said they do not do 
warranty work. I called lowes and the guy said he was 95% sure 
they would exchange it if I brought it down there. I may try 
that just to see what happens. Long story short, poulan is 
junk. I figured it was junk but I figured it would at least 
work the 1 time a year I may need to use it.


Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Alex Chamberlain 
apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote:


On Aug 12, 2013 11:13 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com 
wrote:

I think EPA made chokes disappear.
My Husky 445 saw that I bought in 2010 or so and the 
3xx-something trimmer

that I bought a week ago both have manual chokes.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

I have no idea about that but I bought a Husquvarna a couple of years 
back and so far am happy with it.


Randy

On 12/08/2013 3:51 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
I thought about that, and I am sure they will, I would be willing to 
pay extra for a better saw.  I thought these were made by Husquvarna 
though?


On 8/12/2013 2:45 PM, Randy Bennell wrote:


Quick - before you put fuel in it etc. - take it back and see if they 
will swap you for a Husquvarna.

Will cost a bit more but you will be happier in the long run.

Randy





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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Husky owns Poulan. So, doing some looking on lowes website, and
no more than I will use the thing, I can't really justify spending
an extra $100 or more to get the same size 18 husky. Looking at
the reviews it seems these can also suffer the hard start. What I
am thinking about though is taking this one back and spending an
extra $30 for the 20 Poulan pro saw. It seems to have better
reviews, so maybe it does not have the same problems and seems a
little more heavy duty without spending more for the husky.

This is what I have

http://www.lowes.com/pd_182191-86886-PP4218A_4294747183__?productId=3693568Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1

this is what I am thinking about, not sure if any difference other
than size but seems to have better reviews

http://www.lowes.com/pd_353792-86886-PP5020_4294747183__?productId=3353618Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1
On 8/12/2013 4:26 PM, Randy Bennell wrote:
I have no idea about that but I bought a Husquvarna a couple of
years back and so far am happy with it.

Randy

On 12/08/2013 3:51 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
I thought about that, and I am sure they will, I would be
willing to pay extra for a better saw. I thought these were
made by Husquvarna though?

On 8/12/2013 2:45 PM, Randy Bennell wrote:

Quick - before you put fuel in it etc. - take it back and see
if they will swap you for a Husquvarna.

Will cost a bit more but you will be happier in the long run.

Randy

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-12 Thread Scott Ritchey



Kaleb,

I hope the new saw (Poulan or other) works out.  I urge you to use only
fresh gas (to avoid gumming up the carb) and keep the mix mixed (for
longevity).  As far as I know, all these 2-cycle carbs are similar (and
fundamentally different from 4-cycle carbs) and bad fuel can harm any of
them.  I've owned several Poulan chain saws, blowers, weed whackers, etc.
They don't last forever (probably cheaper metallurgy plus lower production
QC) but I always get at least 5-10 years service unless I poison them with
bad fuel.  There must be lemons but I haven't gotten one yet.  My use is
light-duty homeowner stuff so a throw-away after a few years is OK by me.
But if I was a heavy user (like a tree guy) I'd spring for a Stihl or Echo. 

My other pet peeve is to keep the chain sharp (only requires a file).  A
dull chain is dangerous and it stresses all other parts of the saw.  You
want to see nice little chunks of wood when you cut, not dust.

I ran across the following link that has a lot of detail on these all
attitude carbs.  It may help explain my obsession about fuel.

http://www.asos1.com/smallengine02/smallengine02.htm

Note the many small fuel passages that would be easily blocked by a little
gum or varnish.




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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

It seems to me you have a variable definition for flooded.
To me flooded means theres more gas available than can be handled by the spark 
plug. A wet spark plug produces considerably less spark than a dry one so 
theres no starting.

It seems you start by using flooded to mean primed but then change to 
flooded when you talk about holding full throttle to clear the extra fuel...

My Husky has a primer bulb that I only use if the saw has been sitting a few 
weeks or more. If its been running recently I flip the choke and it'll start 
pretty easy.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:35:05 -0500
From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
Message-ID: a062408d7ce2ee77cf6a2@[192.168.0.107]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed

Does it have the primer bulb and a choke?  If so, yes you can flood it.

My general practice for starting chaninsaws is to choke it, push the 
primer bulb if it has one; pull the rope until it starts and dies. 
Then you know it is flooded.  Then put the choke off and pull the 
rope until it starts.  On my stihl this is generally 2 pulls, one to 
flood it and one to start it.  The poulans sometimes start this well, 
and sometimes don't.  The poulans don't start at all then the plastic 
fuel pickup tubing has rotted off from the crappy stuff the sell as 
gasoline these days.  The Stihl must have some other way of picking 
up the fuel from the tank.


On a flooded gasoline engine mit carburetor,  you open the throttle 
wide and crank.  THat works for chainsaws too.

Seems to me that maybe your saw was flooded.  May be or maybe not 
Can't tell from here.
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Wikipedia says Husky bought Poulan but Husky and Jonsered are both owned by 
Electrolux. I suspect Poulan are actually made by the lowest bidder in China. 
My Husky says made in Sweden on it.

When I got it I was concerned that the bottom end of the motor is plastic. Now 
5 or 6 years later after hours of hard cutting I don't think it matters.

The model is more important than the brand as is where you buy it. A crappy 
homeowner saw from a big box will suck and have poor support. A good semi-pro 
model from a saw shop will give a lot more satisfaction and have much better 
support. According to Kaleb the price difference isn't all that much either.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 16:26:46 -0500
From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
Message-ID: 52095316.1000...@bennell.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I have no idea about that but I bought a Husquvarna a couple of years 
back and so far am happy with it.

Randy

On 12/08/2013 3:51 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
 I thought about that, and I am sure they will, I would be willing to 
 pay extra for a better saw.  I thought these were made by Husquvarna 
 though?

 On 8/12/2013 2:45 PM, Randy Bennell wrote:

 Quick - before you put fuel in it etc. - take it back and see if they 
 will swap you for a Husquvarna.
 Will cost a bit more but you will be happier in the long run.

 Randy
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


Mine that start are poulan pro


Husky owns Poulan.  So, doing some looking on lowes website, and no 
more than I will use the thing, I can't really justify spending an 
extra $100 or more to get the same size 18 husky.  Looking at the 
reviews it seems these can also suffer the hard start.  What I am 
thinking about though is taking this one back and spending an extra 
$30 for the 20 Poulan pro saw.  It seems to have better reviews, so 
maybe it does not have the same problems and seems a little more 
heavy duty without spending more for the husky.


This is what I have

http://www.lowes.com/pd_182191-86886-PP4218A_4294747183__?productId=3693568Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1

this is what I am thinking about, not sure if any difference other 
than size but seems to have better reviews


http://www.lowes.com/pd_353792-86886-PP5020_4294747183__?productId=3353618Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1


I think the larger one is the same as one I have.  Hard to tell from 
the picture, but the smaller one may be the updated  version of the 
smaller one I have.  It has the choke on the right side of the handle 
while for the larger one, you can see the choke on the left side of 
the handle.


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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

From what I have read the bigger 20 may be more Husky than
Poulan, if it makes a different. I am thinking about doing the
sway when I head back to town shortly

On 8/12/2013 5:36 PM, Dieselhead wrote:

Mine that start are poulan pro

Husky owns Poulan. So, doing some looking on lowes website,
and no more than I will use the thing, I can't really justify
spending an extra $100 or more to get the same size 18 husky.
Looking at the reviews it seems these can also suffer the hard
start. What I am thinking about though is taking this one back
and spending an extra $30 for the 20 Poulan pro saw. It seems
to have better reviews, so maybe it does not have the same
problems and seems a little more heavy duty without spending
more for the husky.

This is what I have

http://www.lowes.com/pd_182191-86886-PP4218A_4294747183__?productId=3693568Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1

this is what I am thinking about, not sure if any difference
other than size but seems to have better reviews

http://www.lowes.com/pd_353792-86886-PP5020_4294747183__?productId=3353618Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1

I think the larger one is the same as one I have. Hard to tell
from the picture, but the smaller one may be the updated
version of the smaller one I have. It has the choke on the
right side of the handle while for the larger one, you can see
the choke on the left side of the handle.

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


It seems to me you have a variable definition for flooded.
To me flooded means theres more gas available than can be handled by 
the spark plug. A wet spark plug produces considerably less spark 
than a dry one so theres no starting.


It seems you start by using flooded to mean primed but then 
change to flooded when you talk about holding full throttle to clear 
the extra fuel...


My Husky has a primer bulb that I only use if the saw has been 
sitting a few weeks or more. If its been running recently I flip the 
choke and it'll start pretty easy.



-Curt

I mean too rich to run.  I don't generally check to see if the spark 
plug is wet.


With the choke out, it starts, and runs and dies before I can get to 
the choke to shove it in.  TO me that is more flooded than primed. 
to me primed means there is adequate gasoline to the carb.  But I 
hate gassers, so I really don't care how you want to define the 
terms.  Gimme a Diesel!


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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


Kaleb,

I hope the new saw (Poulan or other) works out.  I urge you to use only
fresh gas (to avoid gumming up the carb) and keep the mix mixed (for
longevity).  As far as I know, all these 2-cycle carbs are similar (and
fundamentally different from 4-cycle carbs) and bad fuel can harm any of
them.  I've owned several Poulan chain saws, blowers, weed whackers, etc.
They don't last forever (probably cheaper metallurgy plus lower production
QC) but I always get at least 5-10 years service unless I poison them with
bad fuel.  There must be lemons but I haven't gotten one yet.  My use is
light-duty homeowner stuff so a throw-away after a few years is OK by me.
But if I was a heavy user (like a tree guy) I'd spring for a Stihl or Echo.

My other pet peeve is to keep the chain sharp (only requires a file).  A
dull chain is dangerous and it stresses all other parts of the saw.  You
want to see nice little chunks of wood when you cut, not dust.

I ran across the following link that has a lot of detail on these all
attitude carbs.  It may help explain my obsession about fuel.

http://www.asos1.com/smallengine02/smallengine02.htm

Note the many small fuel passages that would be easily blocked by a little
gum or varnish.


Hasn't changed from the 30s or 40s, when Farmall tractors had a decal 
by the gas cap that said buy clean fuel, Keep it clean.


Even with QA improvements, the fuel now is unstable, so it is 
probably worse than when those tractors were new.  I never use 2 
cycle gas that is over 4 months old.  I always keep the lid on the 
fuel can.  I always empty the tank of the 2 cycle engine before 
storing, and then let it run out of gas.  My 30 year old stihl has 
never failed to start.


Old 2 cycle gas can be burned in your car, or used for bbq lighter if 
you are extremely careful.  (Don't get within 3 feet of the grill 
when lighting.)  It is less volatile than straight gasoline, which 
does not make bbq lighter.  16 to one is better then 50 to one also, 
as the higher oil content makes it less volatile.


As Scott says, 2 cycle carburetors are more prone to plugging than 
other carbs.  You don't want gasoline in them getting stale or 
corroding the pot metal.


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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

From what I have read the bigger 20 may be more Husky than Poulan, 
if it makes a different.  I am thinking about doing the sway when I 
head back to town shortly


I have to say that to me the 18 is more usable than the 20 saw. 
But then I like small saws.  My all time favorite is the 16 
homely-ite  Super EZ.


I grew up using a 25 lb McCollough 24 so I really appreciated the 
Super EZ.  If I were running a saw everyday, I'd have a Stilh.


The 20 poulan may be mostly huskq, but I've never had a Huskq.  It 
is similar only in color to the 18


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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-12 Thread G Mann

This thread has been running for several days now, but only focused on
fuel, carb, primer, etc etc.. There is another component set to that small
engine that will cause the same level of grief. That is the ignition
system. In almost all cases spark is made by a magneto. If that magneto
pickup gap is set to wide, or to small, it will start hard, run like crap,
and not make proper power.

Again, I suggest you pull the plug, connect the plug wire, lay the plug on
the bare metal head of the engine where you can observe the spark and see
if it is a nice bright blue hot spark or a weak one.. Also, you might want
to look into how to set the gap for the magneto.. many times in production,
things are slipped through that don't really pass muster, boxed and sold.
Could be you have one that almost didn't make test cell.

Grant...

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Wikipedia says Husky bought Poulan but Husky and Jonsered are both owned
 by Electrolux. I suspect Poulan are actually made by the lowest bidder in
 China. My Husky says made in Sweden on it.

 When I got it I was concerned that the bottom end of the motor is plastic.
 Now 5 or 6 years later after hours of hard cutting I don't think it matters.

 The model is more important than the brand as is where you buy it. A
 crappy homeowner saw from a big box will suck and have poor support. A good
 semi-pro model from a saw shop will give a lot more satisfaction and have
 much better support. According to Kaleb the price difference isn't all that
 much either.

 -Curt

 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 16:26:46 -0500
 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
 Message-ID: 52095316.1000...@bennell.ca
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

 I have no idea about that but I bought a Husquvarna a couple of years
 back and so far am happy with it.

 Randy

 On 12/08/2013 3:51 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
  I thought about that, and I am sure they will, I would be willing to
  pay extra for a better saw.  I thought these were made by Husquvarna
  though?
 
  On 8/12/2013 2:45 PM, Randy Bennell wrote:
 
  Quick - before you put fuel in it etc. - take it back and see if they
  will swap you for a Husquvarna.
  Will cost a bit more but you will be happier in the long run.
 
  Randy
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-12 Thread Benz Hogs

Taiwan is the best Asian place to buy bicycle parts from.  Some of the 
best rims and frames are made there, both carbon and aluminum.


Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 Max (169,xxx mi)

On 8/7/2013 5:53 PM, Gary Hurst wrote:

i still like bicycles and advise anyone looking for a bicycle that if they
see the words tig welded taiwan on the frame they are in good shape.

i've also been having good luck selling taiwan parts for mercedes to those
who don't want to be screwed by PRC yet dont want to buy something real

korean stuff is even better.  i wouldnt' touch a korean product in teh 80s
but would not hesitate today




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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Well I took the new one back and go a gift card. They did not have the 20 so I 
will pick one when I am in Tulsa tomorrow at a different lowes that show then 
in stock online.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

 From what I have read the bigger 20 may be more Husky than Poulan, if it 
 makes a different.  I am thinking about doing the sway when I head back to 
 town shortly
 
 I have to say that to me the 18 is more usable than the 20 saw. But then I 
 like small saws.  My all time favorite is the 16 homely-ite  Super EZ.
 
 I grew up using a 25 lb McCollough 24 so I really appreciated the Super EZ.  
 If I were running a saw everyday, I'd have a Stilh.
 
 The 20 poulan may be mostly huskq, but I've never had a Huskq.  It is 
 similar only in color to the 18
 
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

50cc should be a powerful saw, its still a cheaply made cheapo.

This is what I have: 
http://www.lowes.com/pd_498940-86886-445_0__?productId=50015946cm_mmc=search_google-_-Outdoor%20Power%20Equipment_RTC-_-Husqvarna_445-_-husqvarna%20445

and its the absolute minimum I'd ever consider. Consider for a moment the 
amount of time you've wasted on that cheap saw. You'd be ahead on money if 
you'd just bought a good saw from a real saw shop in the first place.

My Husky is a mid-line Ford, your Poulin is a Yugo...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 17:15:40 -0500
From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
Message-ID: 52095e8c.40...@striplin.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Husky owns Poulan.  So, doing some looking on lowes website, and 
no more than I will use the thing, I can't really justify spending 
an extra $100 or more to get the same size 18 husky.  Looking at 
the reviews it seems these can also suffer the hard start.  What I 
am thinking about though is taking this one back and spending an 
extra $30 for the 20 Poulan pro saw.  It seems to have better 
reviews, so maybe it does not have the same problems and seems a 
little more heavy duty without spending more for the husky.

This is what I have

http://www.lowes.com/pd_182191-86886-PP4218A_4294747183__?productId=3693568Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1

this is what I am thinking about, not sure if any difference other 
than size but seems to have better reviews

http://www.lowes.com/pd_353792-86886-PP5020_4294747183__?productId=3353618Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

25-30 years ago Poulan made good saws. I borrowed one when I first moved into 
the house, 20 bar, big profile chain, lots of power. Poulan is now all 
Wal-Mart quality.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 17:36:38 -0500
From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
Message-ID: a062408ddce2f12eb2471@[192.168.0.107]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed

Mine that start are poulan pro
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Ok Maybe I will swing for that one, but I still don't think the one time a year
I would need it is worth it. So you like yours?

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 7:20 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

50cc should be a powerful saw, its still a cheaply made cheapo.

This is what I have:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_498940-86886-445_0__?productId=50015946cm_mmc=search_google-_-Outdoor%20Power%20Equipment_RTC-_-Husqvarna_445-_-husqvarna%20445

and its the absolute minimum I'd ever consider. Consider for a moment the
amount of time you've wasted on that cheap saw. You'd be ahead on money if
you'd just bought a good saw from a real saw shop in the first place.

My Husky is a mid-line Ford, your Poulin is a Yugo...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 17:15:40 -0500
From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
Message-ID: 52095e8c.40...@striplin.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

This is what I have

http://www.lowes.com/pd_182191-86886-PP4218A_4294747183__?productId=3693568Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1

this is what I am thinking about, not sure if any difference other
than size but seems to have better reviews

http://www.lowes.com/pd_353792-86886-PP5020_4294747183__?productId=3353618Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-12 Thread Rich Thomas

I've got that one, it is hard to start too. Gotta hold he throttle open, prime
or pump, pull several times, even when hot. First one the brake thingy broke
but they gave me a new one. Lot of plastic. But it cuts pretty well, good
power.

--R (sent from my miniPad)

On Aug 12, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote:

Ok Maybe I will swing for that one, but I still don't think the one time a year
I would need it is worth it. So you like yours?

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 7:20 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

50cc should be a powerful saw, its still a cheaply made cheapo.

This is what I have:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_498940-86886-445_0__?productId=50015946cm_mmc=search_google-_-Outdoor%20Power%20Equipment_RTC-_-Husqvarna_445-_-husqvarna%20445

My Husky is a mid-line Ford, your Poulin is a Yugo...

-Curt

This is what I have

http://www.lowes.com/pd_182191-86886-PP4218A_4294747183__?productId=3693568Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1

this is what I am thinking about, not sure if any difference other
than size but seems to have better reviews

http://www.lowes.com/pd_353792-86886-PP5020_4294747183__?productId=3353618Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-12 Thread Craig

On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 17:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Curt Raymond
curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 25-30 years ago Poulan made good saws. I borrowed one when I first
 moved into the house, 20 bar, big profile chain, lots of power. Poulan
 is now all Wal-Mart quality.

That's too bad. The Poulan we have I bought in 1981, 32 years ago.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

My Husky has an interesting system where the choke is linked to the throttle. 
Start the saw with the choke on and it goes right to high idle, blip the 
throttle and it settles down.

I had the carb out last year as the fuel hoses had softened and were collapsing 
under vacuum, its an interesting system with 2 throttle bodies. The second 
opens under high throttle. Apparently while the primary can carry enough fuel 
it can't get enough air in to not over richen at the top end so extra air has 
to be added. Must work good the saw has nice power (for only a 45cc motor) and 
doesn't smoke at all. Mitch had mentioned most saws having a catalyst. This one 
doesn't or it doesn't that I've found anyway and I've had the exhaust apart 
several times.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 17:50:30 -0500
From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
Message-ID: a062408dfce2f1683fc39@[192.168.0.107]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed

It seems to me you have a variable definition for flooded.
To me flooded means theres more gas available than can be handled by 
the spark plug. A wet spark plug produces considerably less spark 
than a dry one so theres no starting.

It seems you start by using flooded to mean primed but then 
change to flooded when you talk about holding full throttle to clear 
the extra fuel...

My Husky has a primer bulb that I only use if the saw has been 
sitting a few weeks or more. If its been running recently I flip the 
choke and it'll start pretty easy.

-Curt

I mean too rich to run.  I don't generally check to see if the spark 
plug is wet.

With the choke out, it starts, and runs and dies before I can get to 
the choke to shove it in.  TO me that is more flooded than primed. 
to me primed means there is adequate gasoline to the carb.  But I 
hate gassers, so I really don't care how you want to define the 
terms.  Gimme a Diesel!
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

You have the husky curt says he has?

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 7:33 PM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net
wrote:

I've got that one, it is hard to start too. Gotta hold he throttle open,
prime or pump, pull several times, even when hot. First one the brake thingy
broke but they gave me a new one. Lot of plastic. But it cuts pretty well,
good power.

--R (sent from my miniPad)

On Aug 12, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote:

Ok Maybe I will swing for that one, but I still don't think the one time a
year I would need it is worth it. So you like yours?

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 7:20 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

50cc should be a powerful saw, its still a cheaply made cheapo.

This is what I have:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_498940-86886-445_0__?productId=50015946cm_mmc=search_google-_-Outdoor%20Power%20Equipment_RTC-_-Husqvarna_445-_-husqvarna%20445

My Husky is a mid-line Ford, your Poulin is a Yugo...

-Curt

This is what I have

http://www.lowes.com/pd_182191-86886-PP4218A_4294747183__?productId=3693568Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1

this is what I am thinking about, not sure if any difference other
than size but seems to have better reviews

http://www.lowes.com/pd_353792-86886-PP5020_4294747183__?productId=3353618Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

So it sounds exactly like the poulan that I had then which I assume is the same 
as that 20 one I was looking at

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 7:45 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 My Husky has an interesting system where the choke is linked to the throttle. 
 Start the saw with the choke on and it goes right to high idle, blip the 
 throttle and it settles down.
 
 I had the carb out last year as the fuel hoses had softened and were 
 collapsing under vacuum, its an interesting system with 2 throttle bodies. 
 The second opens under high throttle. Apparently while the primary can carry 
 enough fuel it can't get enough air in to not over richen at the top end so 
 extra air has to be added. Must work good the saw has nice power (for only a 
 45cc motor) and doesn't smoke at all. Mitch had mentioned most saws having a 
 catalyst. This one doesn't or it doesn't that I've found anyway and I've had 
 the exhaust apart several times.
 
 -Curt
 
 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 17:50:30 -0500
 From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
 Message-ID: a062408dfce2f1683fc39@[192.168.0.107]
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed
 
 It seems to me you have a variable definition for flooded.
 To me flooded means theres more gas available than can be handled by 
 the spark plug. A wet spark plug produces considerably less spark 
 than a dry one so theres no starting.
 
 It seems you start by using flooded to mean primed but then 
 change to flooded when you talk about holding full throttle to clear 
 the extra fuel...
 
 My Husky has a primer bulb that I only use if the saw has been 
 sitting a few weeks or more. If its been running recently I flip the 
 choke and it'll start pretty easy.
 -Curt
 
 I mean too rich to run.  I don't generally check to see if the spark 
 plug is wet.
 
 With the choke out, it starts, and runs and dies before I can get to 
 the choke to shove it in.  TO me that is more flooded than primed. 
 to me primed means there is adequate gasoline to the carb.  But I 
 hate gassers, so I really don't care how you want to define the 
 terms.  Gimme a Diesel!
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Love it, best saw I've ever used.

Light enough it doesn't pull your arms off but heavy enough it doesn't vibrate 
you to pieces, its got lots of anti-vibration built into it too. Starts easy, 
flip the choke lever up, crank it a few times it starts and goes to high idle, 
let it idle maybe 20 seconds, blip the throttle to release the choke and slow 
the idle. Let it warm up while I put on my helmet and gloves. If its real cold 
out I'll even let it run while I put on my chaps, then its ready to go.
Consistently uses one tank of oil for each 2 tanks of gas.

We've got a big old Echo at camp thats a lot more powerful but its a lot 
heavier too, I can cut more wood with the Husky.

I really should have stepped up to the 450, at the time it was another $100, 
now I see its down to only $50-$60 more, its got a bigger engine and bigger 
chain but really the 445 does everything I need.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 19:25:00 -0500
From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
Message-ID: fcf11b27-14d1-470b-b5ba-fbdeb5b4c...@striplin.net
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

Ok Maybe I will swing for that one, but I still don't think the one time a year 
I would need it is worth it. So you like yours?

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 7:20 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 50cc should be a powerful saw, its still a cheaply made cheapo.
 
 This is what I have: 
 http://www.lowes.com/pd_498940-86886-445_0__?productId=50015946cm_mmc=search_google-_-Outdoor%20Power%20Equipment_RTC-_-Husqvarna_445-_-husqvarna%20445
 
 and its the absolute minimum I'd ever consider. Consider for a moment the 
 amount of time you've wasted on that cheap saw. You'd be ahead on money if 
 you'd just bought a good saw from a real saw shop in the first place.
 
 My Husky is a mid-line Ford, your Poulin is a Yugo...
 
 -Curt
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


Dieselhead wrote:

I don't know that for sure, so I defer to Mitch's expertise.  I can't 
say that I ever flooded one, but the rental Huskq... concrete saws that 
would not run, they said were flooded after we took them back. But those 
have a choke, so I think maybe I got the different types mixed up.  I 
think EPA made chokes disappear.  Thus K'leb's problem...


My old Husky 36 hates me. When I first bought it (used) I kept having to pull 
the plug out and dry it when I flooded it and fouled the plug. The dealer who 
sold it to me could start it with two or three pulls every time.


Most saws, I choke them, pull the starter until they sputter, turn off the choke 
and they start on the next pull. The Husky floods without me ever hearing the 
sputter, so now it takes me a zillion pulls to start it cold because I'm afraid 
to leave the choke on long enough. Starts one pull with no choke when warm, just 
like all my other saws.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Something is wrong with yours, I bet I could go pull mine out and it'll start 
by the 5th pull, I haven't run it since Memorial day... Hot it'll start first 
pull every time.
If mine started hard I'd take it back to the guy I bought it from and he'd fix 
it, or he would when it was new anyway. Thats why you buy from a saw shop as 
Mitch and I have been saying.

Put a half ounce of seafoam gas additive in it and run a tank through and see 
how it goes.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 20:33:02 -0400
From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
Message-ID: 20c46317-aeea-4fdf-b583-57f599032...@constructivity.net
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

I've got that one, it is hard to start too.  Gotta hold he throttle open, prime 
or pump, pull several times, even when hot.  First one the brake thingy broke 
but they gave me a new one.  Lot of plastic.  But it cuts pretty well, good 
power.

--R (sent from my miniPad)

On Aug 12, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote:

Ok Maybe I will swing for that one, but I still don't think the one time a year 
I would need it is worth it. So you like yours?

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 7:20 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 50cc should be a powerful saw, its still a cheaply made cheapo.
 
 This is what I have: 
 http://www.lowes.com/pd_498940-86886-445_0__?productId=50015946cm_mmc=search_google-_-Outdoor%20Power%20Equipment_RTC-_-Husqvarna_445-_-husqvarna%20445
 
 and its the absolute minimum I'd ever consider. Consider for a moment the 
 amount of time you've wasted on that cheap saw. You'd be ahead on money if 
 you'd just bought a good saw from a real saw shop in the first place.
 
 My Husky is a mid-line Ford, your Poulin is a Yugo...
 
 -Curt
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
I thought about that, and I am sure they will, I would be willing to pay 
extra for a better saw.  I thought these were made by Husquvarna though?


I think the Woodshark and Wild Thing are pretty similar to the bottom end 
Huskies like the 235/240. But the Huskies might have plated cylinders and plain 
pistons where the Wild Thing has a chromed piston and a raw aluminum cylinder.
My dad's five year old Wild Thing always ran fine, but I think it only has about 
two tanks of fuel through it in all that time. They should be a lifetime saw for 
somebody who only runs a saw fifty hours in their lifetime. Better consumer saws 
are probably good for 500+ hours, pro saws are expected to go 2000 hours between 
rebuilds. Full time cutters usually buy a new saw every year, keep the one year 
old for a spare, and use the two year old one for parts or sell it to a 
homeowner cutter.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won



So you've got a Poulan Pro 40cc and you're thinking about a PP 50cc?
I'm don't know much about the 40cc, but generally the PPs have been decent 
homeowner saws. The 50cc actually seem to have a bit of a following.

I thought you'd bought a $99 Poulan, like a Woodshark.

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/192321.htm
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


Curt Raymond wrote:
Wikipedia says Husky bought Poulan but Husky and Jonsered are both owned by Electrolux. 


Then Wiki is outdated.
I don't remember details, but the Electrolux thing changed a few years ago.
I think the Outdoor Power Equipment lines got spun off into their own company 
about time they bought Zenoah/Redmax, but I could be wrong about that part.


BTW, I got an email from Menards today saying they've got a little Tanaka for 
$99. Used to be a good name in Japanese saws, like Shindaiwa or Redmax, but I 
don't know if that's changed. Tanakas, like Echo, were usually thought of as 
very durable but not the most powerful on the market. The $99 price is either a 
screaming bargain or the Chinese bought the Tanaka name while I wasn't looking.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

I had the 42cc or whatever 18 and thinking about the 50cc 20, seems like a 
better saw, but curt says husky.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2013, at 8:16 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 
 So you've got a Poulan Pro 40cc and you're thinking about a PP 50cc?
 I'm don't know much about the 40cc, but generally the PPs have been decent 
 homeowner saws. The 50cc actually seem to have a bit of a following.
 I thought you'd bought a $99 Poulan, like a Woodshark.
 
 http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/192321.htm
 Mitch.
 
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


Curt Raymond wrote:

My Husky has an interesting system where the choke is linked to the throttle. 
Start the saw with the choke on and it goes right to high idle, blip the 
throttle and it settles down.

I had the carb out last year as the fuel hoses had softened and were collapsing 
under vacuum, its an interesting system with 2 throttle bodies. The second 
opens under high throttle. Apparently while the primary can carry enough fuel 
it can't get enough air in to not over richen at the top end so extra air has 
to be added. Must work good the saw has nice power (for only a 45cc motor) and 
doesn't smoke at all. Mitch had mentioned most saws having a catalyst. This one 
doesn't or it doesn't that I've found anyway and I've had the exhaust apart 
several times.


I think your 445 is stratified charge. The extra butterflies let clean air in 
early, which scavenges the cylinder, then a rich load goes in behind it. If all 
goes as intended, no fuel blows through the cylinder into the exhaust, HC 
emissions are much lower, and a tank of fuel lasts almost twice as long. The 
only strato saws I have are my 36cc John Deere badged Efco and my Ryobi (oops, 
Allan's Ryobi, gotta mail that out to him). The Ryobi is a rebadged Redmaz, the 
technology in it was the reason that Husky bought Redmax, needing a way to meet 
circa 2010 EPA regs.
Now Stihl and Husky both sell saws with self tuning carbs with some kind of 
electronic feedback.


Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-12 Thread Rick Knoble

Buy this at Lowes and be done with it. 

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/chainsaws/455-rancher/

Go to a saw shop and get a real chain (or Baileys). That lawyer mandated, 
estrogen induced, feminized, metro-sexual, low kickback chain won't cut butter. 
You want to hang drapes, or cut wood?

Rick
Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-10 Thread Hans Neureiter

On my tiller the choke does not seal when closed. Starts only when I squirt
some gas in the intake.

On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.netwrote:

I have tried with with full choke, half choke, no choke.

On 8/9/2013 3:07 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

You are using the choke, right? These 2-stroke carbs require choking to
suck fuel into the passages from the diaphragm chamber to the jets. You
can
flood it that way but if the fuel passages have drained (or boiled off) it
will not start without choke.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes
[mailto:mercedes-bounces@**okiebenz.commercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Kaleb C.
Striplin
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 3:08 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

I did, plug was dry, I was getting spark when cranked.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 9, 2013, at 2:05 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:

Pull the plug when that happens again and see if it is wet or dry and

check to see if there is spark.

Got to be either flooded, not getting fuel, or not getting spark.

Randy

On 08/08/2013 6:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Oh yea I pulled the cover and squirted a short squirt of either in the

carb and it still did not start

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Rich Thomas

richthomas79TD300@**constructivity.netrichthomas79td...@constructivity.net
wrote:

On my 2-cycle things I squirt in a bunch of carb cleaner to loosen up

the dried gunk (which appears very rapidly) that clogs the jets. The
carb
cleaner will usually fire it off but you might need a couple shots.
Sometimes ether but that is probably not good as there is no oil in there,
but it will get it started after 2-3 times.

--R

On 8/8/13 11:51 AM, Randy Bennell wrote:

On 07/08/2013 6:36 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

So back to the say, it is a POS. I went out to start it, have not
ran

it in a couple days. Wore myself pulling on the damn thing, it never
started. I am going to take it to their nearest service provider I guess
and tell them either to fix it or shove it up their ass.

Try pulling off the filter cover and squirting a little gas into the

carb intake.

That should at least tell you if it is starving for fuel.
I am guessing that is the most likely cause of hard starting.

Did you check to see if it has spark?

Maybe a new spark plug?

Small engines like this are pretty basic.

Randy

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--
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'82 300SD
'01 VW New Beetle 1.9L TDI
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-09 Thread Randy Bennell

Pull the plug when that happens again and see if it is wet or dry and 
check to see if there is spark.


Got to be either flooded, not getting fuel, or not getting spark.

Randy


On 08/08/2013 6:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Oh yea I pulled the cover and squirted a short squirt of either in the carb and 
it still did not start

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net 
wrote:


On my 2-cycle things I squirt in a bunch of carb cleaner to loosen up the dried 
gunk (which appears very rapidly) that clogs the jets. The carb cleaner will 
usually fire it off but you might need a couple shots.  Sometimes ether but 
that is probably not good as there is no oil in there, but it will get it 
started after 2-3 times.

--R


On 8/8/13 11:51 AM, Randy Bennell wrote:

On 07/08/2013 6:36 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

So back to the say, it is a POS.  I went out to start it, have not ran it in a 
couple days.  Wore myself pulling on the damn thing, it never started.  I am 
going to take it to their nearest service provider I guess and tell them either 
to fix it or shove it up their ass.

Try pulling off the filter cover and squirting a little gas into the carb 
intake.
That should at least tell you if it is starving for fuel.
I am guessing that is the most likely cause of hard starting.

Did you check to see if it has spark?

Maybe a new spark plug?

Small engines like this are pretty basic.

Randy

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

I did, plug was dry, I was getting spark when cranked.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 9, 2013, at 2:05 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:

 Pull the plug when that happens again and see if it is wet or dry and check 
 to see if there is spark.
 
 Got to be either flooded, not getting fuel, or not getting spark.
 
 Randy
 
 
 On 08/08/2013 6:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
 Oh yea I pulled the cover and squirted a short squirt of either in the carb 
 and it still did not start
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Rich Thomas 
 richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:
 
 On my 2-cycle things I squirt in a bunch of carb cleaner to loosen up the 
 dried gunk (which appears very rapidly) that clogs the jets. The carb 
 cleaner will usually fire it off but you might need a couple shots.  
 Sometimes ether but that is probably not good as there is no oil in there, 
 but it will get it started after 2-3 times.
 
 --R
 
 
 On 8/8/13 11:51 AM, Randy Bennell wrote:
 On 07/08/2013 6:36 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
 So back to the say, it is a POS.  I went out to start it, have not ran it 
 in a couple days.  Wore myself pulling on the damn thing, it never 
 started.  I am going to take it to their nearest service provider I guess 
 and tell them either to fix it or shove it up their ass.
 Try pulling off the filter cover and squirting a little gas into the carb 
 intake.
 That should at least tell you if it is starving for fuel.
 I am guessing that is the most likely cause of hard starting.
 
 Did you check to see if it has spark?
 
 Maybe a new spark plug?
 
 Small engines like this are pretty basic.
 
 Randy
 
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-09 Thread Randy Bennell


On 09/08/2013 2:08 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

I did, plug was dry, I was getting spark when cranked.

Sent from my iPhone



Ok, so we know it is starving for fuel.
Now the question is why?

Fuel pickup in the tank and hose to carb.
Carb is probably also acting as the fuel pump via a diaphram etc.
I assume this model does not have a primer bulb.

Might try adjusting the screws in the carb as was suggested earlier, as 
a first attempt.
Would not think the filter should be plugged or the pump dead so soon as 
I think I recall you saying this was a new saw.


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Yes it's new. It does have a primer bulb, it says pump it 6 times warm or cold 
to start. I have tried pumping it 6 times, 20 times, no times make no 
difference when it gets to not wanting to start

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 9, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:

 On 09/08/2013 2:08 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
 I did, plug was dry, I was getting spark when cranked.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 Ok, so we know it is starving for fuel.
 Now the question is why?
 
 Fuel pickup in the tank and hose to carb.
 Carb is probably also acting as the fuel pump via a diaphram etc.
 I assume this model does not have a primer bulb.
 
 Might try adjusting the screws in the carb as was suggested earlier, as a 
 first attempt.
 Would not think the filter should be plugged or the pump dead so soon as I 
 think I recall you saying this was a new saw.
 
 Randy
 
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-09 Thread Randy Bennell


On 09/08/2013 2:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Yes it's new. It does have a primer bulb, it says pump it 6 times warm or cold 
to start. I have tried pumping it 6 times, 20 times, no times make no 
difference when it gets to not wanting to start



Now we are getting somewhere.
There is a problem with the primer system if you cannot pretty easily 
flood the thing with it.


I have a similar issue with a weed eater. The hoses and primer bulb fell 
apart and I got a kit to replace them. Have not finished the job but 
need to so that I can use it again. I put the new primer bulb on but 
still need to swap the hoses.


I would guess it should be possible to get a kit for the saw and put 
some new parts on  that will hopefully solve your problem.


Randy



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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-09 Thread Scott Ritchey


You are using the choke, right?  These 2-stroke carbs require choking to
suck fuel into the passages from the diaphragm chamber to the jets.  You can
flood it that way but if the fuel passages have drained (or boiled off) it
will not start without choke.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb C.
Striplin
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 3:08 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

I did, plug was dry, I was getting spark when cranked.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 9, 2013, at 2:05 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:

 Pull the plug when that happens again and see if it is wet or dry and
check to see if there is spark.
 
 Got to be either flooded, not getting fuel, or not getting spark.
 
 Randy
 
 
 On 08/08/2013 6:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
 Oh yea I pulled the cover and squirted a short squirt of either in the
carb and it still did not start
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Rich Thomas
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:
 
 On my 2-cycle things I squirt in a bunch of carb cleaner to loosen up
the dried gunk (which appears very rapidly) that clogs the jets. The carb
cleaner will usually fire it off but you might need a couple shots.
Sometimes ether but that is probably not good as there is no oil in there,
but it will get it started after 2-3 times.
 
 --R
 
 
 On 8/8/13 11:51 AM, Randy Bennell wrote:
 On 07/08/2013 6:36 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
 So back to the say, it is a POS.  I went out to start it, have not ran
it in a couple days.  Wore myself pulling on the damn thing, it never
started.  I am going to take it to their nearest service provider I guess
and tell them either to fix it or shove it up their ass.
 Try pulling off the filter cover and squirting a little gas into the
carb intake.
 That should at least tell you if it is starving for fuel.
 I am guessing that is the most likely cause of hard starting.
 
 Did you check to see if it has spark?
 
 Maybe a new spark plug?
 
 Small engines like this are pretty basic.
 
 Randy
 
 ___
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-09 Thread G Mann

I've had some success with 2 stroke engines with fouled plugs by spraying
the plug with brake cleaner to flush off the oil/carbon..

Then with the plug out and hooked up lay it in contact with the cylinder
head and pull the engine through and watch the spark.. Good hot blue
spark.. likely plug is good.. weak yellow spark.. something wrong with
either the plug [fouled Beyond Economical Repair] or ignition system not
right..

Spark, fuel, air, all required to run. Any one missing.. no start. Any one
not in right ratio.. no start.. or poor running..

Grant...

On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:

Pull the plug when that happens again and see if it is wet or dry and
check to see if there is spark.

Got to be either flooded, not getting fuel, or not getting spark.

Randy

On 08/08/2013 6:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Oh yea I pulled the cover and squirted a short squirt of either in the
carb and it still did not start

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79TD300@**
constructivity.net richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

On my 2-cycle things I squirt in a bunch of carb cleaner to loosen up
the dried gunk (which appears very rapidly) that clogs the jets. The carb
cleaner will usually fire it off but you might need a couple shots.
Sometimes ether but that is probably not good as there is no oil in there,
but it will get it started after 2-3 times.

--R

On 8/8/13 11:51 AM, Randy Bennell wrote:

On 07/08/2013 6:36 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

So back to the say, it is a POS. I went out to start it, have not ran
it in a couple days. Wore myself pulling on the damn thing, it never
started. I am going to take it to their nearest service provider I guess
and tell them either to fix it or shove it up their ass.

Try pulling off the filter cover and squirting a little gas into the
carb intake.
That should at least tell you if it is starving for fuel.
I am guessing that is the most likely cause of hard starting.

Did you check to see if it has spark?

Maybe a new spark plug?

Small engines like this are pretty basic.

Randy

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


I have tried with with full choke, half choke, no choke.
On 8/9/2013 3:07 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

You are using the choke, right?  These 2-stroke carbs require choking to
suck fuel into the passages from the diaphragm chamber to the jets.  You can
flood it that way but if the fuel passages have drained (or boiled off) it
will not start without choke.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb C.
Striplin
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 3:08 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

I did, plug was dry, I was getting spark when cranked.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 9, 2013, at 2:05 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:


Pull the plug when that happens again and see if it is wet or dry and

check to see if there is spark.

Got to be either flooded, not getting fuel, or not getting spark.

Randy


On 08/08/2013 6:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Oh yea I pulled the cover and squirted a short squirt of either in the

carb and it still did not start

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Rich Thomas

richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

On my 2-cycle things I squirt in a bunch of carb cleaner to loosen up

the dried gunk (which appears very rapidly) that clogs the jets. The carb
cleaner will usually fire it off but you might need a couple shots.
Sometimes ether but that is probably not good as there is no oil in there,
but it will get it started after 2-3 times.

--R


On 8/8/13 11:51 AM, Randy Bennell wrote:

On 07/08/2013 6:36 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

So back to the say, it is a POS.  I went out to start it, have not ran

it in a couple days.  Wore myself pulling on the damn thing, it never
started.  I am going to take it to their nearest service provider I guess
and tell them either to fix it or shove it up their ass.

Try pulling off the filter cover and squirting a little gas into the

carb intake.

That should at least tell you if it is starving for fuel.
I am guessing that is the most likely cause of hard starting.

Did you check to see if it has spark?

Maybe a new spark plug?

Small engines like this are pretty basic.

Randy

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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3209/6558 - Release Date: 08/07/13





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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

I was getting a nice blue spark when I did that

On 8/9/2013 3:29 PM, G Mann wrote:

I've had some success with 2 stroke engines with fouled plugs by spraying
the plug with brake cleaner to flush off the oil/carbon..

Spark, fuel, air, all required to run. Any one missing.. no start. Any one
not in right ratio.. no start.. or poor running..

Grant...

On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:

Pull the plug when that happens again and see if it is wet or dry and
check to see if there is spark.

Got to be either flooded, not getting fuel, or not getting spark.

Randy

On 08/08/2013 6:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Oh yea I pulled the cover and squirted a short squirt of either in the
carb and it still did not start

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79TD300@**
constructivity.net richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

On my 2-cycle things I squirt in a bunch of carb cleaner to loosen up

the dried gunk (which appears very rapidly) that clogs the jets. The carb
cleaner will usually fire it off but you might need a couple shots.
Sometimes ether but that is probably not good as there is no oil in there,
but it will get it started after 2-3 times.

--R

On 8/8/13 11:51 AM, Randy Bennell wrote:

On 07/08/2013 6:36 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Did you check to see if it has spark?

Maybe a new spark plug?

Small engines like this are pretty basic.

Randy

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3209/6558 - Release Date: 08/07/13

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-09 Thread WILTON

Reminds me:  'Bout 25 years ago, a black walnut tree had fallen across part 
of a rental house that I owned.  I began cutting it in the upper limbs (now 
horizontal and near the ground, of course) with a small Homelite saw that 
would not run at idle - had to keep giving it short throttle spurts between 
cuts to keep it going.  'Had gotten most of the limbs fairly well done, but 
I had to get up on a stepladder to get one that I was unable to reach from 
the ground.  As I was about finish the cut, I paused and studied the limb's 
fall a little more closely.  My thoughts were something like this:  If I 
don't make the finish cut fast enough, the limb will swing down, hit the 
ground on the outer end and swing against the ladder knocking me to the 
ground, but if I can cut fast enough, maybe I can make it fall nearly flat 
and stay away from the ladder.  I continued the cutting - yep, you guessed 
it - the limb swung downward, hit on the outer end and then fell inward 
against the ladder.  As I was falling and jumping backward off the ladder, I 
threw the saw way off the right at about 2 o'clock.  As I was getting up, I 
realized that the saw was lying across the yard idling perfectly, and 
continued to do so henceforth.  What it needed was a good throwing/tossing 
across the yard.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won



I have tried with with full choke, half choke, no choke.
On 8/9/2013 3:07 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

You are using the choke, right?  These 2-stroke carbs require choking to
suck fuel into the passages from the diaphragm chamber to the jets.  You 
can
flood it that way but if the fuel passages have drained (or boiled off) 
it

will not start without choke.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb 
C.

Striplin
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 3:08 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

I did, plug was dry, I was getting spark when cranked.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 9, 2013, at 2:05 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:


Pull the plug when that happens again and see if it is wet or dry and

check to see if there is spark.

Got to be either flooded, not getting fuel, or not getting spark.

Randy


On 08/08/2013 6:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Oh yea I pulled the cover and squirted a short squirt of either in the

carb and it still did not start

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Rich Thomas

richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

On my 2-cycle things I squirt in a bunch of carb cleaner to loosen up

the dried gunk (which appears very rapidly) that clogs the jets. The carb
cleaner will usually fire it off but you might need a couple shots.
Sometimes ether but that is probably not good as there is no oil in 
there,

but it will get it started after 2-3 times.

--R


On 8/8/13 11:51 AM, Randy Bennell wrote:

On 07/08/2013 6:36 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
So back to the say, it is a POS.  I went out to start it, have not 
ran

it in a couple days.  Wore myself pulling on the damn thing, it never
started.  I am going to take it to their nearest service provider I guess
and tell them either to fix it or shove it up their ass.

Try pulling off the filter cover and squirting a little gas into the

carb intake.

That should at least tell you if it is starving for fuel.
I am guessing that is the most likely cause of hard starting.

Did you check to see if it has spark?

Maybe a new spark plug?

Small engines like this are pretty basic.

Randy

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Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3209/6558 - Release Date: 08/07/13





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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-09 Thread Scott Ritchey

Assuming you get fuel in the little primer bulb (many are clear and you can
see there is fuel there) this sounds more and more like either a crudded-up
carb from old fuel or a bad/misadjusted carb from the git go.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb C.
Striplin
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 6:39 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

I was getting a nice blue spark when I did that

On 8/9/2013 3:29 PM, G Mann wrote:
 I've had some success with 2 stroke engines with fouled plugs by spraying
 the plug with brake cleaner to flush off the oil/carbon..

 Then with the plug out and hooked up lay it in contact with the cylinder
 head and pull the engine through and watch the spark.. Good hot blue
 spark.. likely plug is good.. weak yellow spark.. something wrong with
 either the plug [fouled Beyond Economical Repair] or ignition system not
 right..

 Spark, fuel, air, all required to run. Any one missing.. no start. Any one
 not in right ratio.. no start.. or poor running..

 Grant...

 On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
wrote:

 Pull the plug when that happens again and see if it is wet or dry and
 check to see if there is spark.

 Got to be either flooded, not getting fuel, or not getting spark.

 Randy

 On 08/08/2013 6:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

 Oh yea I pulled the cover and squirted a short squirt of either in the
 carb and it still did not start

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79TD300@**
 constructivity.net richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

   On my 2-cycle things I squirt in a bunch of carb cleaner to loosen up
 the dried gunk (which appears very rapidly) that clogs the jets. The
carb
 cleaner will usually fire it off but you might need a couple shots.
   Sometimes ether but that is probably not good as there is no oil in
there,
 but it will get it started after 2-3 times.

 --R

 On 8/8/13 11:51 AM, Randy Bennell wrote:

 On 07/08/2013 6:36 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

 So back to the say, it is a POS.  I went out to start it, have not
ran
 it in a couple days.  Wore myself pulling on the damn thing, it never
 started.  I am going to take it to their nearest service provider I
guess
 and tell them either to fix it or shove it up their ass.

 Try pulling off the filter cover and squirting a little gas into the
 carb intake.
 That should at least tell you if it is starving for fuel.
 I am guessing that is the most likely cause of hard starting.

 Did you check to see if it has spark?

 Maybe a new spark plug?

 Small engines like this are pretty basic.

 Randy

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-09 Thread Mitch Haley


Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Yes it's new. It does have a primer bulb, it says pump it 6 times warm or cold 
to start. I have tried pumping it 6 times, 20 times, no times make no 
difference when it gets to not wanting to start


The primer bulb sucks from a carb vent and pumps back to the tank.
If it's sucking fuel, the carby should be full.
You may just have a defective carby.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-09 Thread Craig

On Fri, 9 Aug 2013 19:05:39 -0400 WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote:

 As I was falling and jumping backward off the ladder, I threw the saw
 way off the right at about 2 o'clock.  As I was getting up, I realized
 that the saw was lying across the yard idling perfectly, and continued
 to do so henceforth.  What it needed was a good throwing/tossing across
 the yard.

Good fix, Wilton! ATTABOY!


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-08 Thread Randy Bennell


On 07/08/2013 5:48 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
Or take a dremel tool with a thin blade on it and cut a slot in the 
end of the adjuster and use a regular screw driver. Works just fine 
on my Poulan.


Manfred


Mitch Haley wrote:


Wow, all the eBay sources seem to have dried up.
Found a Zama double D for $24, which is about $19 more than I paid 
for my Homelite double D. Can't find the Husqvarna/Poulan splined 
ones anywhere.
Sometimes you can jam a piece of tubing over the screw tight enough 
to turn it, especially with the splined ones.


Mitch.





Hey Randy!

you'se guys have the same problem in the PR of Canada?  I'd think up 
there if the gummit tried to gum up the chainsaws, the lumberjacks 
would take to sawin up the pols/regulators. (figuratively)


I have to admit I had no idea that the carb adjustment on a chainsaw 
required some special tool.
The last one I bought came from the USA via Lowes so I probably need to 
have a look. It is Husquvarna so no problem so far. Cuts like a banshee. 
I bought a set of the chaps in the hopes that I won't remove a leg if I 
slip!


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-08 Thread Randy Bennell


On 07/08/2013 6:36 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
So back to the say, it is a POS.  I went out to start it, have not ran 
it in a couple days.  Wore myself pulling on the damn thing, it never 
started.  I am going to take it to their nearest service provider I 
guess and tell them either to fix it or shove it up their ass.




Try pulling off the filter cover and squirting a little gas into the 
carb intake.

That should at least tell you if it is starving for fuel.
I am guessing that is the most likely cause of hard starting.

Did you check to see if it has spark?

Maybe a new spark plug?

Small engines like this are pretty basic.

Randy

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-08 Thread Dieselhead





Try pulling off the filter cover and squirting a little gas into the 
carb intake.

That should at least tell you if it is starving for fuel.
I am guessing that is the most likely cause of hard starting.

Did you check to see if it has spark?

Maybe a new spark plug?

Small engines like this are pretty basic.

Randy


air, fuel and spark, assuming it has compression.  of course the 
air/fuel ratio and spark timing are crucial.


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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-08 Thread Rich Thomas

On my 2-cycle things I squirt in a bunch of carb cleaner to loosen up 
the dried gunk (which appears very rapidly) that clogs the jets. The 
carb cleaner will usually fire it off but you might need a couple 
shots.  Sometimes ether but that is probably not good as there is no oil 
in there, but it will get it started after 2-3 times.


--R


On 8/8/13 11:51 AM, Randy Bennell wrote:

On 07/08/2013 6:36 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
So back to the say, it is a POS.  I went out to start it, have not 
ran it in a couple days.  Wore myself pulling on the damn thing, it 
never started.  I am going to take it to their nearest service 
provider I guess and tell them either to fix it or shove it up their 
ass.




Try pulling off the filter cover and squirting a little gas into the 
carb intake.

That should at least tell you if it is starving for fuel.
I am guessing that is the most likely cause of hard starting.

Did you check to see if it has spark?

Maybe a new spark plug?

Small engines like this are pretty basic.

Randy

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-08 Thread Mountain Man

--R wrote:
 ...but still have my Schwinn 10spd in the garage I bought in high school, 
 trading in my Stingray i outgrew, which would be worth a fortune today.


I used to assemble Stingray bikes at the Schwinn shop.  And, I still
ride my 1938 rear drop-out New Departure Chicago Schwinn balloon tire
bicycle - maybe it's also work a fortune today...
mao

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-08 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin

I got the darn thing started today fished what I needed to clear to close the 
gate which was not much cutting at all, turned it off to
Move the logs and could not get to start. Almost started the first attempt then 
that was it

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:12 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 Try pulling off the filter cover and squirting a little gas into the carb 
 intake.
 That should at least tell you if it is starving for fuel.
 I am guessing that is the most likely cause of hard starting.
 
 Did you check to see if it has spark?
 
 Maybe a new spark plug?
 
 Small engines like this are pretty basic.
 
 Randy
 
 air, fuel and spark, assuming it has compression.  of course the air/fuel 
 ratio and spark timing are crucial.
 
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-08 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin

Oh yea I pulled the cover and squirted a short squirt of either in the carb and 
it still did not start

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net 
wrote:

 On my 2-cycle things I squirt in a bunch of carb cleaner to loosen up the 
 dried gunk (which appears very rapidly) that clogs the jets. The carb cleaner 
 will usually fire it off but you might need a couple shots.  Sometimes ether 
 but that is probably not good as there is no oil in there, but it will get it 
 started after 2-3 times.
 
 --R
 
 
 On 8/8/13 11:51 AM, Randy Bennell wrote:
 On 07/08/2013 6:36 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
 So back to the say, it is a POS.  I went out to start it, have not ran it 
 in a couple days.  Wore myself pulling on the damn thing, it never started. 
  I am going to take it to their nearest service provider I guess and tell 
 them either to fix it or shove it up their ass.
 
 Try pulling off the filter cover and squirting a little gas into the carb 
 intake.
 That should at least tell you if it is starving for fuel.
 I am guessing that is the most likely cause of hard starting.
 
 Did you check to see if it has spark?
 
 Maybe a new spark plug?
 
 Small engines like this are pretty basic.
 
 Randy
 
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-08 Thread Mitch Haley


Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Oh yea I pulled the cover and squirted a short squirt of either in the carb and 
it still did not start


Might have a weak coil that dies when hot?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-08 Thread Scott Ritchey


I expect they'll just replace the carburetor unless there is significant
damage to the piston/rings/cylinder.  These can be rebuilt but cheaper to
replace given US labor rates.

Two rules for 2-cycle engines (1) don't use gas, and (2) agitate the
fuel-oil mix before you fill or start the engine.



-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb C.
Striplin
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 7:36 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

So back to the say, it is a POS.  I went out to start it, have not ran 
it in a couple days.  Wore myself pulling on the damn thing, it never 
started.  I am going to take it to their nearest service provider I 
guess and tell them either to fix it or shove it up their ass.




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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-08 Thread Scott Ritchey


If you have tools handy when this happens, unscrew the spark plug.  Is it
wet or dry?  If dry you are probably not getting fuel.  If wet, try cleaning
any carbon with a paper towel and blow dry (compressed air if available) or
air dry.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb C.
Striplin
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:33 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

I got the darn thing started today fished what I needed to clear to close
the gate which was not much cutting at all, turned it off to
Move the logs and could not get to start. Almost started the first attempt
then that was it

Sent from my iPhone

es_okiebenz.com



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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Or a Husky or Echo or any semi-pro saw sold at a real saw shop. The cheap 
homeowner saws are junk and you get zero support.

My Dad is hilarious, he made fun of me for buying my Husky. In our family you 
don't buy a saw, you wait awhile and somebody gives you one. The thing is the 
ones you get given are never very good. After I bought the Husky he bought a 
Poulin like Kaleb's and has had about the same results although he paid a lot 
less. He now admits my Husky is a good saw.

-Curt

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 14:29:17 -0600
From: Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
Message-ID:
    CACnCPhk7zfq-QoVi3QnFKN3X0DCS-vAmKk=8h=bzi55bh0j...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I'd just get a Stihl.  They just work.
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Actually yours is pretty much the same story as Kaleb's. There is pretty much 
no QA on most anything brought over from China. 

A great manufacturer recognizes that they periodically made a dud and it 
doesn't take many duds to ruin a reputation. So they pick one out of a hundred 
(or whatever) and test it until it fails to prove they're making good stuff.

A rotten manufacturer decides we've got enough safeguards in our process that 
we CAN'T make bad stuff so we don't need to test. At which point a bad run of 
product is almost inevitable. I went through this in 2004 when a run of boards 
my employer had had made turned up to be 50% bad. That is to say we had a 50% 
DOA rate which is completely unacceptable and unsupportable. For us in support 
it was an absolute nightmare as replacement boards had the same 50% DOA rate so 
we had to specify boards from the repair center. Then the repair center found 
they couldn't fix the DOA boards, they were so bad, so we quickly ran out of 
good boards. The manufacturer closed down for retooling and we were stuck for 
6 months...

I suspect if you disassembled both engines you'd find the good one meets closer 
tolerances. Probably something like the timing ring or a valve stem is off by a 
couple thou, not enough that you'd notice in casual inspection but enough to 
kill cold starts.

-Curt


Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:07:40 -0500
From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
Message-ID: 5201659c.8070...@bennell.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

A bit of a different story as I am going to comment on 2 f4 stroke 
clones of Honda engines.

One has been amazing. We have it on a wood splitter out at the lake.
The very first time I tried to start it, I had just bolted it on and 
filled it with oil and gas.
I pulled the cord and it started on the first pull.

A year or more later, I pulled the tarp off and the same thing happened. 
It started immediately with no fresh gas etc.

On the other hand, I have new (or at least I bought it new a couple of 
years ago) pressure washer.
It has never started well.
If I pop off the cover on the air cleaner and squirt some gas in, it 
will fire up. If I don't do that, it will not start when cold.
Very similar looking engines.

I have no real idea why one is great and the other is a pain.

Randy
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Not just good engineering, Quality Control. This is something American car 
makers didn't learn until well into the '90s.

I think it was on here somebody told a good anecdote where an American car 
maker paired up with an Asian one and learned about strict quality control...

-Curt

Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:53:27 -0500
From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
Message-ID: 52017057.9050...@bennell.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I think it is called good engineering.

Although, Honda has the odd dud too. I just got off the phone with a 
client who was telling me his uncle stopped by with a brand spanking new 
Honda Accord. When his uncle tried to leave, the car would not start. 
The starter whirrs but it does not turn over the engine.
Better than that, he has been told he will have to wait a few days as 
they have no parts for the new cars in stock. I suggested he tell them 
he wants them to pull one from a new car on the lot in order to get him 
moving again.

Randy

On 06/08/2013 4:41 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
 I'm still trying to figure out how Honda makes my lawn mower start on the 
 first pull every time.

 Dan
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Not just good engineering, Quality Control. This is something 
American car makers didn't learn until well into the '90s.


I think it was on here somebody told a good anecdote where an 
American car maker paired up with an Asian one and learned about 
strict quality control...



-Curt
That is the frod madza transmission story.

Two well-publicized examples in practice have given credence to this 
theory. In one case, Ford and Mazda were producing identical 
transmission components in the United States and Japan using the same 
blueprints, equip- ment, and processes. The Ford assemblies were 
experiencing a higher rate of field failures. Upon examining the 
critical dimensions produced by the Ford plant, all were found to be 
within acceptable tolerances. However, upon exam- ining the 
Mazda-built components, nearly all were precisely on target with 
almost no variation within the allowable tolerance. The explanation 
is that in mechanical assemblies, excessive variation from design 
targets causes prema- ture wear, eventually resulting in early field 
failure.
A second example was published in the Japanese newspaper Ashai com- 
paring the warranty cost differences of Sony televisions at a 
Japanese and San Diego plant. A critical product characteristic is 
color density. For this charac- teristic, all units produced at the 
San Diego plant were within the design toler-ance, while a small 
proportion of those shipped from the Japanese plant were not. 
However, the average loss per unit from the San Diego plant was $.89 
larger than that of the Japanese plant. It was discovered that units 
out of speci- fication were adjusted at the San Diego plant (adding 
more cost to the pro- cess), but rarely to the target value. In the 
Japanese plant, the color density of the vast majority of units were 
produced close to the target value (see Exhibit 1-3). The further the 
color density was from the target value, the more likely customers 
will complain and require an adjustment (adding to warranty costs). 
From Exhibit 1-3 it is clear that the U.S.-made units required 
significantly more warranty adjustments than the Japanese-made 
counterparts. The chair- man of Sony explained the difference this 
way (Sullivan, 1984):
When we tell one of our Japanese employees that the measurement of a 
certain part must be within a tolerance of plus or minus five, for 
example, he will auto- matically strive to get that part as close to 
zero tolerance as possible. When we started our plant in the United 
States, we found that workers would follow in- structions perfectly. 
But if we said make it between plus or minus five, they would get it 
somewhere near plus or minus five all right, but rarely as close to 
zero as the Japanese workers did.
The reduction of variation is the cornerstone of the Deming 
philosophy. As variation decreases, so will costs, resulting in 
higher levels of profit and con- sumer satisfaction.


First source I stumbled over:
http://www.flexstudy.com/catalog/schpdf.cfm?coursenum=9529a

Bottom half of page 10.

Basic quality 101 stuff.   Unfortunately more people know the names 
of 20 (c)rappers than know quality 101.

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-07 Thread Dan Penoff

Ford and Mazda. Started with the second generation Escort in 1990. I bought one 
of the first ones in Wisconsin. Excellent car.

Dan

On Aug 7, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Not just good engineering, Quality Control. This is something American car 
 makers didn't learn until well into the '90s.
 
 I think it was on here somebody told a good anecdote where an American car 
 maker paired up with an Asian one and learned about strict quality control...
 
 -Curt
 
 Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:53:27 -0500
 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
 Message-ID: 52017057.9050...@bennell.ca
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
 
 I think it is called good engineering.
 
 Although, Honda has the odd dud too. I just got off the phone with a 
 client who was telling me his uncle stopped by with a brand spanking new 
 Honda Accord. When his uncle tried to leave, the car would not start. 
 The starter whirrs but it does not turn over the engine.
 Better than that, he has been told he will have to wait a few days as 
 they have no parts for the new cars in stock. I suggested he tell them 
 he wants them to pull one from a new car on the lot in order to get him 
 moving again.
 
 Randy
 
 On 06/08/2013 4:41 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
 I'm still trying to figure out how Honda makes my lawn mower start on the 
 first pull every time.
 
 Dan
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


I tried that. It will act like it wants to start then dies out again.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 6, 2013, at 7:15 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:


 Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

 This thing has to be vapor locking.


 Next time it dies, take off the fuel cap and put it back on.
 Might have a pinched tank vent hose.

  Mitch.
 


If there is a good saw shop in the area that will work on poulan, pay 
them to fix it.  Otherwise try taking it back where you got it.  You 
have nothing to lose at this point.


In defense of poulan, i have a couple of them, and they start and run 
well.  One is at daughter's house for hurricane duty and beating back 
the jungle.  The other is in as Curt would say Camp and it is used 
for occasional dead trees etc.  The only problem I have had is the 
fuel pickup hose rotting away, and that is with only 100% gasoline, 
or at least what is sold now as crappy 100% gasoline.  So, no it is 
not caused by ethanol.  It is caused by the crap they sell as 
gasoline now.


The last hose I got lasted only 1-2 years.  that is bad.  The saw has 
to be partially taken apart to change the flippin hose.


+1 for stihl.  My little Stihl 015 is 30 years old and never had a 
problem.  But I dump out gas and run it out before I put it away.  I 
have used it for cutting trees over 26 dia with its little 12 bar. 
This is the saw I prefer for most things.


The biggest problem with gas engines is crappy gasoline.  The 
problems are exaserbated in small engines.


+1 for Where's the Diesel chain saws?

+1 for a Diesel BMW R75

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-07 Thread Richard Hattaway



Not just good engineering, Quality Control. This is something American car 
makers didn't learn until well into the '90s.


-Curt

Just about the time they also decided that they could ship it all to Mexico and 
China and continue to make 'quality' products.

Richard
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-07 Thread Scott Ritchey


The great irony here is that the Japanese learned quality management from
the US after WWII (Google: W. Edwards Demming).  The US developed/used these
quality approaches for the massive WWII war production.  The ironic part is
that US industry then blew off all these quality lessons after the war and
focused on just making money, which wasn't hard for the only surviving
industrial base in the world.  That came to a grinding halt when the
Japanese (using quality methods learned from us) became the world leader for
quality back in the 80s and 90s.  We older folks recall the 50s and 60s when
made in Japan meant junk.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
Dieselhead
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 10:36 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Not just good engineering, Quality Control. This is something 
American car makers didn't learn until well into the '90s.

I think it was on here somebody told a good anecdote where an 
American car maker paired up with an Asian one and learned about 
strict quality control...

-Curt



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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won


The great irony here is that the Japanese learned quality management from
the US after WWII (Google: W. Edwards Demming).  The US developed/used these
quality approaches for the massive WWII war production.  The ironic part is
that US industry then blew off all these quality lessons after the war and
focused on just making money, which wasn't hard for the only surviving
industrial base in the world.  That came to a grinding halt when the
Japanese (using quality methods learned from us) became the world leader for
quality back in the 80s and 90s.  We older folks recall the 50s and 60s when
made in Japan meant junk.




Hear Hear!  (visualize Ben Franklin stomping his cane on the floor.)

(ASQ Senior member)

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-07 Thread Randy Bennell


On 07/08/2013 12:08 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

The great irony here is that the Japanese learned quality management from
the US after WWII (Google: W. Edwards Demming).  The US developed/used these
quality approaches for the massive WWII war production.  The ironic part is
that US industry then blew off all these quality lessons after the war and
focused on just making money, which wasn't hard for the only surviving
industrial base in the world.  That came to a grinding halt when the
Japanese (using quality methods learned from us) became the world leader for
quality back in the 80s and 90s.  We older folks recall the 50s and 60s when
made in Japan meant junk.


Don't think your timing is correct. The small Japanese motor bikes in 
the mid 60's were great.
Maybe other Japanese products were not as good but they were well on 
their way to sorting out any problems by the mid 60's.


Randy


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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

2013-08-07 Thread Fmiser

 Dieselhead wrote:
 
 +1 for Where's the Diesel chain saws?

It's old and underpowered.  Comet A or Comet B, or a Jonsered XA.

A couple youtube videos of them.

From http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAUjEsgPXJI
From http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXR3ZOPlRys

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won

Tut tut sir, American cars (which is a mis-nomer but lets stick with it, I 
obviously mean the big 3) are of comparable, some would even say higher, 
quality to the Asian brands right now. In particular Honda and Toyota are in a 
bit of trouble lately. I wonder if maybe they've gotten bit by the same bug 
that caught Mercedes 20 years ago?

When it comes to rental cars lately I prefer American, specifically Ford if it 
comes right down to it.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 08:45:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Hattaway rhatta...@rocketmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won
Message-ID:
    1375890327.46902.yahoomail...@web161003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii



Not just good engineering, Quality Control. This is something American car 
makers didn't learn until well into the '90s.


-Curt

Just about the time they also decided that they could ship it all to Mexico and 
China and continue to make 'quality' products.

Richard
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Re: [MBZ] I fought the saw and the saw won