Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
WRT the engine I only see good things coming out of this. Engine wise things will continue for the most part as they have for years, with Scott carefuly reviewing everything, working on language features, and keeping us on the straight and narrow. The only area where things will change is our additional attention to platform specific features (this is not Java everything needs to look right), and scott can now spend additional time on the features he wants to. Features like activex, webkit/html, databases, xml, real tables, video capture, Quartz, metal/drawers, SSL, xp look and feel, are not on a to-do list but have been implemented,or are being implemented and will be carefully integrated into the language with everyones input. We will continue to focus on stability *first* (we have a bugzilla list set up where things are reported directly to me *and* Scott), and keeping the technology cross platform (and indeed porting it to additional platforms and improving support for Unix (like unicode import and motif look and feel)). UI wise, I think the Rev 2.0 UI is a big improvement over the 1.0 version, but the MC UI will still be fully supported. Tuviah Snyder [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Put URL Progress?
On Thursday, June 26, 2003, at 09:29 pm, Scott Rossi wrote: Is there a way to get/monitor the K downloaded when using the method put url DATA1 into url DATA2? I know this possible using libURL and libUrlFtpUpload, but how about put url? Sorry for the delay. I'm out of the country, and I'm finding the wireless internet a little more elusive than I thought. Try the libUrlSetStatusCallback command. This is the description from the runRev website: -- libUrlSetStatusCallback allows you to set a callback message that will be sent during download and upload requests. The message sends status data of any current requests in a similar form to the urlStatus function. However, using a callback allows you to get status data even during blocking calls such as get url. This makes it easier to set up things such as progress bars. To set the callback message, pass the name of the message and the long id of the object where the message handler resides. Example on mouseUp libUrlSetStatusCallback urlCallback, (the long id of stack status) end mouseUp libUrl will then send the message at the same time as it updates the urlStatus value. It passes two arguments with the message: the url and the current status. So, using the example above, you would set a handler in the stack script of stack status. Example on urlCallback pUrl, pStatus put pStatus into field status end urlCallback The status argument will contain a string similar to that returned by urlStatus. The only difference that instead of cached, downloaded is passed when a download has completed. -- Cheers Dave ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
I have a lot of respect for the folks at Revolution, but I chose to remain with MetaCard for a reason. Revolution's interface is bloated and overly complicated. There are some nice features, to be sure, but I chose MetaCard over Revolution for the same reason that I chose AppleWorks over Microsoft Word... I've got work that needs to be done. I need to have a simple but powerful tool, not one where feature creep has made a nightmare out of the user interface. Every time I use Word to do anything I feel like I've been in a knife fight. I can program in MetaCard in my sleep (and often have.) The idea of relearning a complicated interface and paying for the privilege does nothing for me. If Revolution wants the remaining hardcore MetaCard users, they have one serious shot at it... They need to offer a FREE cross-grade, right now. Everyone who is running MetaCard 2.5 legally should get a free cross-grade. Otherwise, what is to prevent us from just running MetaCard 2.5 for the next 4 or 5 years? I will not pay to switch to Revolution. I would, however, probably be willing to give it a fair shot if I could cross-grade right now for free. If not, well, MetaCard 2.5 runs really really well and I don't think I'll need much more than it for a while. Heck, most of the stuff I do uses the Darwin mc engine anyway. I know this post sounds harsh, but, well, I have a religious attachment to MetaCard. I totally intend on using it until it won't run on the Mac any more, and that could be another 5 to 10 years. The only thing that could possibly change my mind would be a free cross-grade. Otherwise, I don't see me seriously considering Revolution. -- :) Richard MacLemale Network Administrator J. W. Mitchell High School ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: metacard digest, Vol 1 #688 - 13 msgs
The MetaCard group already exists: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/metacard/ JR Scott Raney wrote: The first order of business will be to set up a mailing list so that we can start discussions of how that group should be organized and later, what changes to the UI everyone wants (and are willing to contribute to!). That should help keep this list focused on *using* the UI, with some discussions of the engine technology it shares with the new standard development environment, Revolution. OK, so who wants to host that mailing list? If Yahoo Groups is OK I could set one up in a few minutes. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site ___ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
I can program in MetaCard in my sleep (and often have.) The idea of relearning a complicated interface and paying for the privilege does nothing for me. If Revolution wants the remaining hardcore MetaCard users, they have one serious shot at it... They need to offer a FREE cross-grade, right now. Everyone who is running MetaCard 2.5 legally should get a free cross-grade. Otherwise, what is to prevent us from just running MetaCard 2.5 for the next 4 or 5 years? I will not pay to switch to Revolution. As Scott said the MC IDE is now open source so you can continue to maintain an engine license and use the MC IDE instead of Rev. It's up to you if you want to switch or not but it seems that all development will go into the engine and the Rev IDE. Do we have any idea how this will work? For example, if you have a Rev license will you be able to use your choice of Rev, MC or FreeGUI (or whatever else)? That seems to be the most logical way to do things. Cheers Monte ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
Features like activex, webkit/html, databases, xml, real tables, video capture, Quartz, metal/drawers, SSL, xp look and feel, are not on a to-do list but have been implemented,or are being implemented and will be carefully integrated into the language with everyones input. Great! XP look and feel has been on my wish list for ages. Cheers Monte ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MetaCard acquired - wake up call
RCS wrote: It makes me realize that this technology can be pulled out from underneath us...I feel pretty rattled. What would happen if Apple buys this? Do you think they will support Windows and Linux? Anyone who buys it will be attracted to it primarily for its platform independence. Given our experience with Dylan, Sk8, Newton, etc., yes, if Apple bought it we'd need to keep an eye on them. Fortunately in this case the buyer is a less fickle company with a vested interest in the core asset we all rely on: a strong MC engine. Do you think RunRev has any more loyalty to us than Scott? Maybe more so: in some areas they have more ambition than Scott in terms of markets they address, an since they rely on the engine at least as much as any of us they need to push it further. There are no guarantees anywhere (what a sad statement!), so I don't blame Scott...but my heart sank when I read this for some reason. It seems like the beginning of the end, not a new beginning. It's definitely a wake-up call for me...I think I'll go see how Java is doing. Who wants to spend their time watching a compiler progress bar? ;) But seriously, I think the message that's not been stressed enough is that for MC users nothing changes, only new options. We get a license for Rev for those that want to use it, and a guarantee that the MC IDE will continue to be supported for those that don't. In fact, the new arrangement may offer opportunities for increased productivity for those using the MC IDE: Scott's preference for a lean IDE has kept his substantially unchanged for years. A lot of us have built a great many tools for MC, and with the new plan to turn its development over to volunteers we have the opportunity to add extensibility options that don't necessarily complicate the UI. The message I get from the announcement is that MC users now have more options, not fewer. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MC IDE discussion list (was: metacard digest, Vol 1 #688 - 13msgs)
RCS wrote: Scott Raney wrote: The first order of business will be to set up a mailing list so that we can start discussions of how that group should be organized and later, what changes to the UI everyone wants (and are willing to contribute to!). That should help keep this list focused on *using* the UI, with some discussions of the engine technology it shares with the new standard development environment, Revolution. OK, so who wants to host that mailing list? If Yahoo Groups is OK I could set one up in a few minutes. The MetaCard group already exists: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/metacard/ The header for that group suggests it's more for general discussion than focused on managing the open source UI. Would the moderator be willing to modify it for such a focus? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
Richard MacLemale wrote: I have a lot of respect for the folks at Revolution, but I chose to remain with MetaCard for a reason. Revolution's interface is bloated and overly complicated. There are some nice features, to be sure, but I chose MetaCard over Revolution for the same reason that I chose AppleWorks over Microsoft Word... I've got work that needs to be done. I need to have a simple but powerful tool, not one where feature creep has made a nightmare out of the user interface. Every time I use Word to do anything I feel like I've been in a knife fight. Thank goodness it wasn't acquired by Micro$oft. ;) I can program in MetaCard in my sleep (and often have.) The idea of relearning a complicated interface and paying for the privilege does nothing for me. If Revolution wants the remaining hardcore MetaCard users, they have one serious shot at it... They need to offer a FREE cross-grade, right now. Everyone who is running MetaCard 2.5 legally should get a free cross-grade. From the FAQ on the press release page at http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html: What happens to existing MetaCard customers? Existing customers will get a free upgrade to Revolution with their next subscription renewal. We strongly recommend everyone to upgrade to Revolution. However, for those existing MetaCard customers that want to continue to use the MetaCard tools, we will arrange an outside group of volunteer developers to maintain the existing MetaCard user interface so that they may do so. Otherwise, what is to prevent us from just running MetaCard 2.5 for the next 4 or 5 years? Nothing. If you prefer it, just keep using it. It will only get better as well. I would, however, probably be willing to give it a fair shot if I could cross-grade right now for free. If not, well, MetaCard 2.5 runs really really well and I don't think I'll need much more than it for a while. Heck, most of the stuff I do uses the Darwin mc engine anyway. I know this post sounds harsh, but, well, I have a religious attachment to MetaCard. Amen, brother. But as a fellow disciple of the Church of MetaCard, note that the prophet Raney is behind this move to the promised land. MC users don't have to change at all if they don't want to, but the engine development seems likely to benefit from the unified development effort. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
Amen, brother. But as a fellow disciple of the Church of MetaCard, note that the prophet Raney is behind this move to the promised land. And the prophet Raney, whom some call Scott, said unto the chosen ones Go forth into this new land and multiply and I shall provide. ;-) Cheers Monte ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
My 2 cents... The purchase is a great idea. In all honesty (and with all the respect due to Scott and his great efforts), MC needed this badly! I've suggested many times to Scott to include some of my improved APIs, make MC more professional looking. First impression of MC is that it is not appealing and the lack of marketing doesn't help unless you read the whole site (which is not the most navigable thing i've seen), and testing MC is not easy for starters. I dont see a java or C programmer jumping bandwagon if they have tried Delphi or Metrowerks professional GUIs... The development budgets is surely not the same, but RR is on the right track!!! RR has definitely made lots of whistles and bells that make MC modern and I applaud that! I will welcome RR as soon as I can (budget allocation depending naturally, and stability testing too). Last I saw RR it was version 1.0 and it was a great first impression but the amount of bugs then just couldn't make it operable on our production servers. MC in this respect was not easy to start with but once the few bugs were tamed, it runs forever without a hitch. I hope RR is as good. I downloaded the 2.0 version. Installed it (bug dialog already in the installer!!!) but it finished installing ok. I have lots of home scripts which I can't port to the home stack - not a good start - home is where the heart of my 50 monitoring applications is!!! The GUI is not as nice as I first tought. The help window is very nice but also irritating when it changes size each time... Screen real-estate is now even more limited... OK, I wont start with my new bug list but Im not sure Im happy... I also enjoyed making MC's every internal stack and properties 10X better which now is going to be useless. The RR script editor has the same bugs as MC's so I dont see an advantage at first hand... I've heard that RR was also a bloated application - slower than MC. I dont see this at all using it. Can anyone give us a difference list? But there is a lot (if not too many) options left and right... Im sure lots of thinking went into the design but the screen real-estate is far worse than MC - I guess this takes some getting used to. BTW, you can't search the help tutorials!!! In the Encyclopedia the pop-up menus dont work... ;(( my bug/petpeeve list is already at 16 items in just one hour... Not good... -=- Xavier Bury TNS NT LAN Server Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anyone give us a difference list? a summary: MetaCard Revolution Enginesame same Both use the same engine; languages features, speed etc. identical for both IDE fast but spartan; feature-rich; slower few command keys in some operations and fewer palettesrequiring lots of means many trips to palette updates the menu bar Docs bare bones; extensive; complete often presumesexamples for nearly familiarity every token; requires with UNIX;more memory compact -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
I wish I saw good things here. I wish I could believe. If I embrace Rev, I see losing a year's productivity, just when I finally got where I really want to be. Nah, don't worry. You won't lose a thing; not any time, not any money. I routinely work on the same stack, at the same time, in both MC and Revolution. (It's pretty neat you can do that, actually.) Remember, the engine is exactly the same. You don't *have* to learn the IDE, though you'll probably want to pick up some of it just for ease of use eventually. The engine behavior will be identical to what you already know. Your stack will run in Rev exactly as it does now in MC, with *zero* changes. If you don't want to use the IDE, use the message box. I do that all the time when I don't want to drill down in Rev's IDE. Rev 2.0 is far more stable than the older version you tried. I have only had it crash once on me, and when I duplicated the behavior in MC, that crashed too -- so it was the engine, not the IDE. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay That does mean a lot coming from you Jacque. I know you have been immersed in both for quite awhile. It took me a very long time to make the decision to move to MC. I had already invested in the compiler and a stack of books to migrate to C. But knowing that Scott/MC had been around for 10 years, and charged enough to stay in business and not go poof, I felt safe in choosing MC over C. I believed that Metacard would not abandoned us as Hypercard had, and would move forward as necessary to keep up with the computing world. Stability of the product, and the company behind the product, are key. Shari C -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
Steady now... There's been no mention of forced upgrade. If you don't want to don't. Upgrade when you are ready or when you need a new engine feature. Regards Monte It wasn't an issue of forced upgrade now, but of when the time comes, the upgrade would be to * something else * . Also, I'm not sure where Rev stands on Metacard users, as far as licensing agreements and so forth. Perhaps there should be a mailout to all of us who have purchased Metacard, explaining the finer points and how they affect us. In my Blackjack game, I knew certain questions would come up, so I built a FAQ into the game to answer those questions. In effect, I answered them before they were asked. Saves a lot of scrambling when the questioners come flooding in. Shari C -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Jumping together
Those who are long-term Microsoft Windows users might like to think of the jump from Metacard to Runtime Revolution in terms of the jump from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95. A breath of fresh air! Although I think that now is the time for there to develop a multiplicity of GUI front-ends on the Metacard engine so we can all feel happy in our xTalking. Richmond Mathewson __ See Mathewson's software at: http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.htmland http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html __ --- Great Macintosh Products The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi --- ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Huh?
What in the heck does this mean? Existing customers will get a free upgrade to Revolution with their next subscription renewal. So after paying for a subscription, you get a free upgrade?! I think you guys have had a little too much champagne... Tell me if I am wrong: I just paid for my license to MetaCard, and I am no longer entitled to engine upgrades. This is bad business in my book. JR ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
If this is all you worry about, you can rest easy. I'll continue to be a part of the engine development team for the foreseeable future, and though my control over the direction of the technology and management will be greatly diminished, I have complete confidence in the team at Runtime Revolution. They're just better managers and marketers than I ever was ;-) Scott, If you learn any new marketing tricks, let us know! They say that developers often make the worst marketers, which is why it is so difficult to succeed in this business. We'd rather stay glued to the keyboard and code, than pound the pavements strutting our stuff. Kinda reminds me of Apple/Windows. Apple had the better product, but Billy was the marketing genius, and so snatched up the majority of marketshare. If I am understanding this, in the future, if you took the Rev engine, but replaced the stacks (Home, Help, Metacard Menubar, etc.) with the current MC stacks, it would run? There were features I liked about Rev when I tried it, like sorting the contents of the Control Browser. There were other features that got in the way, though I truthfully don't recall what they were. I don't have a lot of faith in Open Source carrying a product into the future as something you can rely on for years to come. I'm not aware of an open source program that has been around for at least 10 years, is stable, and of this magnitude. Since nobody makes money from open source, there is nothing to keep it alive but heart, and that usually fades with time. Sometimes new blood in a company is a positive thing. Sometimes not. I still bitch every time I use OSX, as it is so Windows-like. I miss being able to double click the title bar to collapse a window (yes I know you can get programs to do this, but before, we didn't have to). I despise having to go thru Are you sure you want to... dialogs every time I click a button. I miss being able to color folders, so that certain ones stand out and remind me of something. I can only hope this change will be a GOOD thing. It wouldn't have mattered to me if Scott added a lot of features, as long as the engine was kept up to date with the computer platforms, and of course if a major change occurred in the computer world, that it would be integrated. (Such as when computers added color, and Hypercard tacked it on but never truly integrated it as they should have.) Yes I am rambling. Where I should be off doing things that need to be done by Friday to get ready for the Shareware Industry Conference. Shari C -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
I too have not switched yet, but I know the time for me will be sooner than later. We can all hold hands and jump together. :) Best regards, Mark Talluto Thanks, Mark. It is good to have a friend :-) Shari C -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
On 7/9/03 4:05 AM, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote, Thank goodness it wasn't acquired by Micro$oft. ;) Please... Don't even joke. Their first order of business would be to drop Mac and Linux support and insert bugs... From the FAQ on the press release page at http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html: What happens to existing MetaCard customers? Existing customers will get a free upgrade to Revolution with their next subscription renewal. Which is essentially a paid cross-grade. It means that the next time I get ready to fork over 300 bucks to MetaCard I give it to Rev instead and then I get Rev. Which means I'm paying 300 for Rev. Which I can do anyway if I simply buy a Small Business License. So there's no real benefit, other than the fact that, I assume, my pro MC license would cross grade into a pro Rev license, which gives me access to some databases that I don't need. Don't get me wrong, for people who need to do MySQL stuff this is a decent deal. For me it's not. However, I teach students at a high school, though most of my day is network admin, so I probably qualify as a teacher. Rev's price for teachers is only $99. I had to read that twice to make sure I had the correct price. I guess I would be willing to spend 99 bucks to give Rev a shot and see if it's for me. If I ever wanted to put something out commercially I'd have to grab the small business license. I must admit that seeing some of the list's big names come out in favor or Rev has me thinking that I ought to be more open to this idea. I posted, years ago, my opinions on MetaCard and where it should head, and I said it needed a more sophisticated interface, better marketing, and a lower price. I admit that Rev has all 3. I also admit that this will lead to more programmers, which is always a good thing. Lots to think about... -- :) Richard MacLemale Network Administrator J. W. Mitchell High School ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
I have a different perspective from most people on this list and probably don't have a right to a strong opinion on MC vs. RR but I figured I'd chime in anyway. Irrepressible, you know. I looked closely at both MC and RR when I decided to join the Revolution when it was still in 1.1.1 release. Yeah, there were some bugs. But when I looked at the applications I was able to build in the two environments, what struck me was that getting to an app that looked and felt polished and professional and had the appropriate platform look-and-feel on all the platforms I cared about was much more feasible in RR than in MC. The lean UI in MC put me off. It felt like a *nix application builder to which cross-platform capabilities had been added (which I gather is precisely what it was). I have built several apps in RR2 and encountered, for all practical purposes, no bugs. I've found glitches in the IDE UI and every once in a while something doesn't seem to work quite the way the docs say it does, but no show-stoppers. And the joy of seeing a really professional-looking application emerge from my beloved OS X machine and run straight-up on Windows is hard to describe. Separating engine development and UI design/development into two companies was a recipe for problems. Across the chasm, all kinds of things can happen. I for one welcome the merger; I suspect we will now see more rapid and consistent development of both the engine and the IDE UI together. And I've seldom seen a company that listens better to its users than RR. On with the Revolution!
Re: Jumping together
Hello Richmond and y'all, I think that now is the time for there to develop a multiplicity of GUI front-ends on the Metacard engine so we can all feel happy in our xTalking. Check out the MetaCard-based FreeGUI project: http://www.egroups.com/group/freegui :)) Everyone is welcome to join in on the fun! ;-) Alain Farmer FreeGUI coordinator __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
plot Basically, if Rev's single users educational license is 99 per copy I can definitely have a chat with the administration. However I have to show them that deployable products will result. Since I've published a couple of programs using metaCard in law reviews I think this can be shown. /plot My Home Page with free online legal information Page perso avec liens juridiques http://www.lexnet.bravepages.com/ind.htm _ FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community http://www.FindLaw.com Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email! http://mail.Justice.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
-Original Message- From: Shari [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 9:07 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!! If I am understanding this, in the future, if you took the Rev engine, but replaced the stacks (Home, Help, Metacard Menubar, etc.) with the current MC stacks, it would run? Well, there is no 'Rev' engine, it uses the MC engine just like MC does. I don't have a lot of faith in Open Source carrying a product into the future as something you can rely on for years to come. I'm not aware of an open source program that has been around for at least 10 years, is stable, and of this magnitude. Since nobody makes money from open source, there is nothing to keep it alive but heart, and that usually fades with time. FreeBSD - Been around for 10 years - much greater magnitude than MC - highly stable Apache - 8 years - most widely used webserver on the planet Sometimes new blood in a company is a positive thing. Sometimes not. I still bitch every time I use OSX, as it is so Windows-like. I miss being able to double click the title bar to collapse a window (yes I know you can get programs to do this, but before, we didn't have to). I despise having to go thru Are you sure you want to... dialogs every time I click a button. I miss being able to color folders, so that certain ones stand out and remind me of something. Well, OSX is kind of give and take in the feature department, you can't color folders, but you can color or use a picture for window backgrounds, which you couldn't in OS9; and your beloved folder coloring is coming back later this year. I can only hope this change will be a GOOD thing. It wouldn't have mattered to me if Scott added a lot of features, as long as the engine was kept up to date with the computer platforms, and of course if a major change occurred in the computer world, that it would be integrated. (Such as when computers added color, and Hypercard tacked it on but never truly integrated it as they should have.) I think it will be positive, as I believe it will allow Scott to concentrate better on core engine development, and not have to worry about marketing and day-to-day management responsibilities of a small company. Please note that I have used MC since before there was a Rev, and when Rev came out was initially impressed by its professional looking GUI, but was put off by its inability to run for more than 5 minutes without crashing, and so continued to use MC for my next project. Surely this has been fixed by now, else Scott would not be doing this. -Glen ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: METACARD vs RUN REV
Richard, Is RR opened as MC or is it password ridden? Just tried the RR free version and you can't even edit the home stack script! I seriously despise that... I have my own environment to run... It requires to be conscious and all powerfull OVER the IDE (and OS of course!). Thanks for any insights... Xavier -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard Gaskin Sent: Wednesday, 09 July, 2003 11:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anyone give us a difference list? a summary: MetaCard Revolution Enginesame same Both use the same engine; languages features, speed etc. identical for both IDE fast but spartan; feature-rich; slower few command keys in some operations and fewer palettesrequiring lots of means many trips to palette updates the menu bar Docs bare bones; extensive; complete often presumesexamples for nearly familiarity every token; requires with UNIX;more memory compact -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Jumping together
I think that now is the time for there to develop a multiplicity of GUI front-ends on the Metacard engine so we can all feel happy in our xTalking. From a practical standpoint, this seems like effort that could be applied to improving the Rev GUI/environment, which would be valuable to everyone. Developing a front end is a lot of work that will probably provide little return in the long run. Of course it's a great learning project to undertake. I actually took a stab at doing a front end for MC that started about 4 years ago. The goal was to get better layout capabilities than those provided in the current MC IDE, and keep everything (except the script editor and message box) in a single, small-footprint palette. I only poke my nose into it every few months or so because the time to do something like this is very demanding, but FWIW, some screenshots are available here: http://www.tactilemedia.com/TLE/screenshot_1.jpg http://www.tactilemedia.com/TLE/screenshot_2.jpg http://www.tactilemedia.com/TLE/screenshot_3.jpg Maybe now is really the time to create GUI front ends as plugins for Rev... Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.tactilemedia.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: RR/MC and history
Remember SuperCard? Richard G. and the rest of us lived through quite a torrid time. Aaaarggh! Pray God we run a true course with this shift in ownership! I have every respect for Kevin dating from a long time ago, and Scott's continued input is certainly something which I welcome. As Shari and others have said, product stability and corporate stability are both needed. /H _ Hugh Senior The Flexible Learning Company Consultant Programming Software Solutions Fax/Voice: +44 (0)1483.27 87 27 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.flexibleLearning.com
RE: Jumping together
And Scott said http://www.tactilemedia.com/TLE/screenshot_1.jpg http://www.tactilemedia.com/TLE/screenshot_2.jpg http://www.tactilemedia.com/TLE/screenshot_3.jpg So bery fruity!!! Nice job... why isn't it out? I was working on the mctools bar concept with nuclear menus and palettes... http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=77 -- The only thing better than EOC is a Z3 Coupe with quad neutron PBCs! Great for caravan passing or people with high beams on... Go wild at http://monsieurX.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
Shari wrote: ...I'm not sure where Rev stands on Metacard users, as far as licensing agreements and so forth. Perhaps there should be a mailout to all of us who have purchased Metacard, explaining the finer points and how they affect us. In my Blackjack game, I knew certain questions would come up, so I built a FAQ into the game to answer those questions. In effect, I answered them before they were asked. Saves a lot of scrambling when the questioners come flooding in. It seems they did that, having addressed these questions in the FAQ below the press release at: http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re:METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
I believe that this could be the best thing for the xTalk world since color hit with SuperCard.A strong marketing arm is what's needed to create a critical mass of xTalkers. So how do we go about making the transition? We've got MC 2.5 now, with a full license; but how does that apply to Rev 2.0? Merely downloding the latest version of Rev will still hold developers to the ten-line limit. Right? Do I hear a suggestion out there in the Rev world? Does this MC List get mereged into the Rev List? Will Scott's Wise Eye watch over us chickens when we start to PANIC? Ray G. Miller __ Turtlelips Productions 4009 Everett Ave. Oakland, CA 94602 MailTo:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (V) 510.530.1971 (F) 510.482.3491 ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Moving the MC IDE forward
With the announcement yesterday, as Scott suggested the next step for the evolution of MetaCard's IDE is to form a discussion list to focus on IDE development. There's a lot to discuss so we should get that going soon. I'm a big fan of Yahoo Groups, and one of the readers here suggested turning the existing group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/metacard/ into the MetaCard IDE group. I haven't been in contact with that moderator, so I don't know how he might feel about changing the focus of the group from general MC discussion to IDE development and management. We should also consider the existing subscribers, who joined with the intention of participating in general discussion and who may be put off or even bored by the more focused working group. Another factor is that the group cited above has its messages hidden from non-subscribers, but I feel a group like the one being considered benefits from allowing messages to be read publicly. After all, open source is about being open. This can be changed by the moderator of course, but there may be reasons he set it up like that which should be taken into account before requesting change. Things we need to decide: - Is Yahoo Groups acceptable as a groupware solution for this project? With its discussion list, file repository, calendar, and links it gets my vote, but there may be things I'm overlooking. - If so, is it simpler to alter the existing group or create a new one? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Re:METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
Do I hear a suggestion out there in the Rev world? Does this MC List get mereged into the Rev List? Will Scott's Wise Eye watch over us chickens when we start to PANIC? Well, myself, I would prefer not to merge the lists. I get two rev daily digests and I have so little time. I get MC as well but as individual mails to my professional and not personal account. But I have no idea what MC/RR will or should decide. Damn. And I just quit drinking. Otherwise I'd uncork a bottle of champagne. My Home Page with free online legal information Page perso avec liens juridiques http://www.lexnet.bravepages.com/ind.htm _ FindLaw - Free Case Law, Jobs, Library, Community http://www.FindLaw.com Get your FREE @JUSTICE.COM email! http://mail.Justice.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re:METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
We've got MC 2.5 now, with a full license; but how does that apply to Rev 2.0? Merely downloding the latest version of Rev will still hold developers to the ten-line limit. Right? Do I hear a suggestion out there in the Rev world? Does this MC List get mereged into the Rev List? Will Scott's Wise Eye watch over us chickens when we start to PANIC? Ray G. Miller Gosh, think of those of us whose license ran out. At least you can *try* Rev for free, and make sure it really does run your projects just as MC does. I would have pay just to find out. Not a happy prospect. At least with MC, if I did a paid upgrade, I would know that I was getting what I have, only better. Now, a paid upgrade means, well getting something unproven and untried, for projects that are finally stable and productive. Scary. -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 11:31 AM, Shari wrote: We've got MC 2.5 now, with a full license; but how does that apply to Rev 2.0? Merely downloding the latest version of Rev will still hold developers to the ten-line limit. Right? Do I hear a suggestion out there in the Rev world? Does this MC List get mereged into the Rev List? Will Scott's Wise Eye watch over us chickens when we start to PANIC? Ray G. Miller Gosh, think of those of us whose license ran out. At least you can *try* Rev for free, and make sure it really does run your projects just as MC does. I would have pay just to find out. Not a happy prospect. At least with MC, if I did a paid upgrade, I would know that I was getting what I have, only better. Now, a paid upgrade means, well getting something unproven and untried, for projects that are finally stable and productive. Scary. -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com Why not download the free running version that lasts for 30 days and see how it goes? Best regards, Mark Talluto http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Jumping together
From: Scott Rossi, I actually took a stab at doing a front end for MC that started about 4 years ago. The goal was to get better layout capabilities than those provided in the current MC IDE, and keep everything (except the script editor and message box) in a single, small-footprint palette. I only poke my nose into it every few months or so because the time to do something like this is very demanding, but FWIW, some screenshots are available here: http://www.tactilemedia.com/TLE/screenshot_1.jpg http://www.tactilemedia.com/TLE/screenshot_2.jpg http://www.tactilemedia.com/TLE/screenshot_3.jpg; LOL! That was the first thing I did when I switched from HC! After futzing with Dan Gelder's Serf, I felt that the best path was MC, but the GUI begged for improvement. An everthing palette is still the best course, IMHO. Click a part button and ONLY its propreties are displayed. You're right, it's very time consuming. It's a bit like doing brain surgery on yourself... ;-) You have a great eye for GUI and design. What graphic app did you use? BTB, you're left-handed, right? You use the same test words that I use: sger,trewy, drety etc... Ray G. Miller __ Turtlelips Productions 4009 Everett Ave. Oakland, CA 94602 MailTo:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (V) 510.530.1971 (F) 510.482.3491 ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
on 07.09.03 1:20 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Things we need to decide: - Is Yahoo Groups acceptable as a groupware solution for this project? With its discussion list, file repository, calendar, and links it gets my vote, but there may be things I'm overlooking. - If so, is it simpler to alter the existing group or create a new one? It seems like a good solution, and a good group to use. It hasn't had much traffic since the action moved to the MetaCard list at RunRev. + Tereza Snyder + Senior Software Developer + Attainment Company, Inc. + www.attainmentcompany.com + 800.327.4269 ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Jumping together
Recently, Ray G. Miller wrote: http://www.tactilemedia.com/TLE/screenshot_1.jpg http://www.tactilemedia.com/TLE/screenshot_2.jpg http://www.tactilemedia.com/TLE/screenshot_3.jpg; LOL! That was the first thing I did when I switched from HC! After futzing with Dan Gelder's Serf, I felt that the best path was MC, but the GUI begged for improvement. An everthing palette is still the best course, IMHO. Click a part button and ONLY its propreties are displayed. You're right, it's very time consuming. It's a bit like doing brain surgery on yourself... ;-) I enjoy the work. But there's a lot to do and in my case I gave myself the added burden of trying to squeeze it into a (hopefully) visually accessible UI. It really is the same as MC's current UI, just organized a little differently and with more of each object's properties added to screens. You have a great eye for GUI and design. What graphic app did you use? Thank you -- that's what I do for a living so hopefully I have some semblance of a clue. :-) Graphic app = same ol' same ol' (Photoshop). BTB, you're left-handed, right? You use the same test words that I use: sger,trewy, drety etc... Actually I'm right handed, but I might be left brained according to all the research that's been published over the last 50 or so years?... :-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.tactilemedia.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Jumping together
Recently, MisterX wrote: So bery fruity!!! Nice job... why isn't it out? It's incomplete! I'd guess it's about 60% there (all the layout functions seem to be working pretty well). I was working on the mctools bar concept with nuclear menus and palettes... http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=77 I looked at this the day you announced it (I believe I wrote you about it). Very nice! Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.tactilemedia.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
Tereza Snyder wrote: on 07.09.03 1:20 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Things we need to decide: - Is Yahoo Groups acceptable as a groupware solution for this project? With its discussion list, file repository, calendar, and links it gets my vote, but there may be things I'm overlooking. - If so, is it simpler to alter the existing group or create a new one? It seems like a good solution, and a good group to use. It hasn't had much traffic since the action moved to the MetaCard list at RunRev. Thanks for the feedback. In the absence of any dissenting opinion I'll contact that list admin and run this past him -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 01:23 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Tereza Snyder wrote: on 07.09.03 1:20 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Things we need to decide: - Is Yahoo Groups acceptable as a groupware solution for this project? With its discussion list, file repository, calendar, and links it gets my vote, but there may be things I'm overlooking. - If so, is it simpler to alter the existing group or create a new one? It seems like a good solution, and a good group to use. It hasn't had much traffic since the action moved to the MetaCard list at RunRev. Thanks for the feedback. In the absence of any dissenting opinion I'll contact that list admin and run this past him I am just curious to know how many people are planning on staying with MC and being active in maintaining its IDE? Best regards, Mark Talluto http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
Shari wrote: Gosh, think of those of us whose license ran out. At least you can *try* Rev for free, and make sure it really does run your projects just as MC does. I would have pay just to find out. Not a happy prospect. At least with MC, if I did a paid upgrade, I would know that I was getting what I have, only better. Now, a paid upgrade means, well getting something unproven and untried, for projects that are finally stable and productive. Scary. Why? A free version of both Rev and MC remains available. Just download it and give it a shot. And as I understand it, getting a Rev license also give you access to the raw MC engine, so you should be able to just keep using the MC IDE if you prefer. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
Mark Talluto wrote: I am just curious to know how many people are planning on staying with MC and being active in maintaining its IDE? That's a good question. I'm well invested in a nice workflow with nifty quick tools I've added, so I'm inclined to keep that workflow in place for the foreseeable future (although I do some work in Rev as well from time to time and enjoy being able to move stacks seamlessly back and forth). I would be happy to contribute to the maintenance of the IDE going forward, and would like to see simpler extensibility as a first step (after we get a list set up to make it happen, of course). -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
Recently, Mark Talluto wrote: I am just curious to know how many people are planning on staying with MC and being active in maintaining its IDE? I can't say how long we'll stay with the MC IDE (can anyone really?), but I can say we're willing to contribute to its development now. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.tactilemedia.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote: I would be happy to contribute to the maintenance of the IDE going forward, and would like to see simpler extensibility as a first step (after we get a list set up to make it happen, of course). Great suggestion! I think Richard won't mind me mentioning the fact that we recently discussed the possibility of modularizing the IDE, separating as many parts out as possible so that folks can create their own flavors of the UI as needed. (Perhaps the current structure of the IDE facilitates this -- I haven't dissected it too deeply.) Many of us have created our own tools and utilities to enhance our work environments: wouldn't it be nice to be able to add our enhancements to the IDE without having to severely dismember it... Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.tactilemedia.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Re:METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 20:31, Shari wrote: We've got MC 2.5 now, with a full license; but how does that apply to Rev 2.0? Merely downloding the latest version of Rev will still hold developers to the ten-line limit. Right? Do I hear a suggestion out there in the Rev world? Does this MC List get mereged into the Rev List? Will Scott's Wise Eye watch over us chickens when we start to PANIC? Ray G. Miller Gosh, think of those of us whose license ran out. At least you can *try* Rev for free, and make sure it really does run your projects just as MC does. I would have pay just to find out. Not a happy prospect. At least with MC, if I did a paid upgrade, I would know that I was getting what I have, only better. Now, a paid upgrade means, well getting something unproven and untried, for projects that are finally stable and productive. Scary. Shari, It was exactly my feeling the day i got my first Metacard license, six years ago... At this point, i was searching for an Hypercard 2.41 competitor and i discovered the best XTalk never seen over any platform... As Scott explained us in his last mail, the best XTalk available today needs the marketing power of the RunRev Team to grow more and more. He must be right and, between us, only great people are able to know in witch different spheres, they are at the top and in witch they are not spending their best time and work. What seems important, at this point, is that the Metacard core engine design and development will stay in the hands of Scott, alike the Linux kernel stays in the hands of Linus Torwalds, for the best of the MC/Rev next issues, alike, for the best of the future of the best Linux distributions... It's probably time for to go head in subscribing to the RunRev mailing list. There are probably interesting peoples to meet there too. I go, for my own, to (re)subscribe to it, right now. Bests, -- Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores Applications WEB et ERP personnalisés Penser et produire l'avantage compétitif ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
On 7/9/03 3:34 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: I am just curious to know how many people are planning on staying with MC and being active in maintaining its IDE? Don't know what the future may bring, but I'd like to remain involved with the MC IDE regardless. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
Hi MetaCarders, Recently, Mark Talluto wrote: I am just curious to know how many people are planning on staying with MC and being active in maintaining its IDE? I can't say how long we'll stay with the MC IDE (can anyone really?), but I can say we're willing to contribute to its development now. I will sign this! :-) And as Richard pointed out, workflow is the keyword. We all got used to the spartanic UI of MC, created nice palettes when we needed them and, to be honest, more than 90% of our daily work will get covered by the functionality MC provides... We all got used to this old buddy don't want to say goodbye to him ;-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.tactilemedia.com Regards Klaus Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.major-k.de ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 22:34, Mark Talluto wrote: On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 01:23 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Tereza Snyder wrote: on 07.09.03 1:20 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Things we need to decide: - Is Yahoo Groups acceptable as a groupware solution for this project? With its discussion list, file repository, calendar, and links it gets my vote, but there may be things I'm overlooking. - If so, is it simpler to alter the existing group or create a new one? It seems like a good solution, and a good group to use. It hasn't had much traffic since the action moved to the MetaCard list at RunRev. Thanks for the feedback. In the absence of any dissenting opinion I'll contact that list admin and run this past him I am just curious to know how many people are planning on staying with MC and being active in maintaining its IDE? Best regards, Mark Talluto http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard Hello Mark, In my developments (backgrounder client-server apps, web's and erp's front-ends, the xtalk coding + engine power makes 90% of my products. I think i will go to use both the MC IDE and the RunRev 2.xx in the future. Bests, Pierre -- Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores Applications WEB et ERP personnalisés Penser et produire l'avantage compétitif ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!! (OT)
Hi Shari, Kinda reminds me of Apple/Windows. Apple had the better product, but Billy was the marketing genius, and so snatched up the majority of marketshare. As someone who tried awfully hard to get Macs into Fortune 500 companies (I carried a Mac Plus into TI and Compaq each day), it wasn't that M$ was a better marketing firm, but rather no one wanted to deal with a single-sourced computer product. The same issues today keep Mac from garnering marketshare. As I was growing a company in the mid 90's, based completely on Apple products, we got bit by the single source issue and I found out the hard way-- Apple couldn't deliver new Powerbooks for close to a year. I switched the whole company to Windowshad to, a Board decision. Been there ever since. Not because I like M$ (far from it), but because it makes more sense for me to have as many options as possible when building a business based on technology (not to mention it is the industry standard at this time). Small companies and individual entrepreneurs seem to enjoy the benefits of using Apple products, because 1) they can afford ($$$) it; 2) they don't *want* to switch and; 3) typically don't mind Apple defining the technology 'roadmap' for their company. I tend to think of Macs as a BMW or Lexus type product. Smooth ride, luxurious yet not 'for everyone.' I think Steve Jobs thinks of his product this way also. Just as BMW doesn't have a model for certain demographics, Apple doesn't seriously target Enterprise users. Undoubtably, ones options are narrowed once you choose the Mac platform. 3 to 4 laptop designs versus 50 to 100, one server. Now, granted, the designs are wonderful, but not varied enough. For instance, I have a svelte Centrino powered laptop with over 4 hours of battery life and a 1400x1050 display. Apple doesn't offer a product which competes in this form factor - though IBM and Dell do. I like OSX and the new faster processors. I certainly like Apple more than M$, but until they get serious about Enterprise and expanding to 3rd party hardware, I feel they are destined to stay a 'niche' market. --Chipp ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
Why not download the free running version that lasts for 30 days and see how it goes? Best regards, Mark Talluto That wouldn't tell me if it would successfully run the programs I * just * released. Shari C -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
CD inserted
Did anyone ever find a solution for determining if a CD is loaded on all platforms? (Specifically all WINDOWS platforms ) I've been thru the archives and Ken Ray's tips, but it looked like you had to download a zip file and install a program, which wouldn't work for a program being distributed, and looking for a CD on the user's drive. I know you cannot query a specific letter, as different computers will use different letters for the CD drive. (Why is this? At work it is G, at home it is D. Why can't it be like a floppy, always the same letter?) Shari C -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Apple vs. M$ and Metacard
As I was growing a company in the mid 90's, based completely on Apple products, we got bit by the single source issue and I found out the hard way-- Apple couldn't deliver new Powerbooks for close to a year. I switched the whole company to Windowshad to, a Board decision. Been there ever since. Not because I like M$ (far from it), but because it makes more sense for me to have as many options as possible when building a business based on technology (not to mention it is the industry standard at this time). Actually that's one reason I like Metacard. It allows me to create programs for Mac and Windows, fairly easily. Shari C -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
I've been listening to this very interesting conversation. After thinking a bit, I've decided this is a good thing...I've chronicled my journey with Xtalk in order to prove a point. Sorry so long... First my concerns... When Charlie Jackson sold Silicon Beach (and SuperCard) to Aldus, I remember talking to him and he assured me it was a good thing.. Bigger company, more resources, better product. I took the bait. Course, don't blame Charlie - he made a buttload(US term for much dinero;-). As someone said, Aldus didn't do SuperCard any favors. When Aldus sold to Allegiant Technologies, I met with Joel Staadecker (the primary investor) to discuss the product and his opportunity. I knew the team well, and believed Aldus had really dropped the ball. Joel seemed to understand the risks going in. Lots of promises later and there still wasn't the 'Windows version' which most had been waiting for. Allegiant ended up failing and SC was picked up by new owners (by this time Bill Appleton the inventor of SC had departed). SuperCard ended up floating around for awhile. If you were a SC developer, you ended up suffering with them as well. Thankfully, they are now up and running and prospering (I hope:-) So, this seems like a pretty scary moment right now. But, When Jerry Daniels (just a couple of years ago) told me about this new company RR, I was skeptical, especially seeing how young and inexperienced they were at that time. I contacted Scott Raney, learned about MC and decided to use RR (for IDE) because after all, there is always the fallback position of MC if RR craters. Later, after using RR and realizing the tremendous power the IDE + MC engine created, I became more interested in the company. Kevin and I discussed the future of the company, and I decided to invest in the company. The reason for this is, I was (and am still) *very* impressed with the business acumen of Kevin and the team. They have a great business plan and are committed to following it. (That being said, I'm offering only *my opinions* and not those of RR or MC.) It turns out, getting investors is difficult if you don't own the underlying technology --the MC engine. Investment dollars are necessary for marketing and future RD. It's a chicken and the egg thing. Now, with ownership of MC, RR can attract the kind of investment opportunites much easier. Now, Scott Raney has always struck me as a conservative businessman, not likely to take major risks. So I think Scott must also be impressed, to turn over his life's work to them. Now, I don't think RR will mind me saying they are not the richest company in the world, and I doubt they made Scott an instant multi-millionaire, so in my mind, it appears Scott didn't sellout. But, the question is, will RR sellout? Meaning, what if Oracle or Adobe or someone decides they need a next-generation cross-platform app? They could certainly afford to purchase a company like RR - then what happens. This is (to me) a bigger potential issue than the one before us now. My best thinking tells me Kevin and the team will do nothing but create a better product. Here's why I don't think an aquistion like this is likely short term. 1) Companies aren't in the mad acquistion mode in this economy -- and I doubt this will turn around very soon; 2) Scotland is far far away; 3) At this time, RR and MC aren't a big enough *dot* on the radar screen -- though I expect that will change. But, eventually, an acquisition could take place. In this event, RR and MC must be packaged as a single product. By creating an OpenSource front end, Scott has assured the future of this product, regardless of what happens. This is enough insurance for me. --Chipp ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE
MCers, I vote keep this a general discussion list, until the MC-to-Rev transition has been accomplished. Create a new MC/Rev open source list. Those of us who are not that familiar with Rev (do REVers refer to it as Rev or RR?) will become better suited to the new environment... The Rev team will have plenty to do merging the two groups over the next few months, so us newbie can quietly PANIC amongst ourselves. (Get a review of newbies by watching Chicken Run.) Ray G. Miller __ Turtlelips Productions 4009 Everett Ave. Oakland, CA 94602 MailTo:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (V) 510.530.1971 (F) 510.482.3491 ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
(WARNING: This is a bit of a long rant and is probably of marginal interest unless you are a programming language junkie or just interested in the history of our business. You've been warned.) Chipp Walters wrote: But, the question is, will RR sellout? Meaning, what if Oracle or Adobe or someone decides they need a next-generation cross-platform app? They could certainly afford to purchase a company like RR - then what happens. This is (to me) a bigger potential issue than the one before us now. My best thinking tells me Kevin and the team will do nothing but create a better product. Here's why I don't think an aquistion like this is likely short term. 1) Companies aren't in the mad acquistion mode in this economy -- and I doubt this will turn around very soon; That's not how I read things right now, Chipp. Oracle is certainly in acquisition mode. Always is. They're trying a hostile takeover of PeopleSoft as we speak. There seems to me to be a LOT of consolidation and acquisition going on at the moment. 2) Scotland is far far away; Not in a networked world. 3) At this time, RR and MC aren't a big enough *dot* on the radar screen -- though I expect that will change. Yes and yes. As someone who was an insider during Oracle's acquisition of Spinnaker/Format's PLUS product back in the halcyon days of HyperCard and xTalk, let me make an observation or two here that may or may not be interesting to any significant number of people. 1. Failure to own your core technology is often fatal, either because investors won't give you money or because you bet your company on someone else's business plan. Those of us who choose to use RR (or MC for that matter) as a development platform run a HUGE risk and we shouldn't minimize that risk. If Oracle or Macromedia or Microsoft or anyone else came along and dangled enough dollars in front of the RR owners, they would be forced to sell; their shareholders wouldn't allow them to do any less. Similarly, if we choose to use not RR but, say, Python (still my favorite development language, suffering from all-but-nonexistent IDE), we still face a risk. The risk is arguably smaller because there are a lot of people who can maintain Python and keep it going. But there is always a risk that the core team will decide to retire and abandon the project. Its continuation then is tenuous. 2. When big companies acquire small ones for their technology, they most often botch it up or bury it. OracleCard, which is what Oracle turned PLUS into, was a fantastic, dynamite product. But its price tag was necessarily low, profit margins modest, and demand for it anemic. Eventually, Oracle cut it loose. I spent a lot of time developing OracleCard apps and writing about it. All that time went down the toilet except for what I learned that turns out to be useful elsewhere. 3. A product like RR gives its small band of adherents a ton of advantages, one of which (let's face it) is that not very many of our comopetitors in the software development world can truly compete with us on price adn time frame. If everyone started using RR, many of the advantages we gain from using it would fade. That's not to say we'd stop using it, of course, but as long as it's a well-kept secret, our big upside is really, really big. 4. It is not inevitable that RR will ever be acquired by BigCo. But it's not entirely unlikely, either. If and when that happens, regardless of the protestations of all the parties involved, it's time to make another key choice: bail out to something in which we can have greater long-term confidence because it's some SmallCo's Big Idea, or stay with the horse we know and hope the new owners don't put it out to pasture. (Wow, talk about mixing metaphors!) For me, if a true Open Source product with an eminently learnable and usable language and a powerful cross-platform IDE existed, I'd be using it exclusively. As far as I can tell, no such beast exists and Heaven knows I've looked. So as far as I can tell right now, RR is the best development platform for the kinds of apps I like to build, bar none. As long as that's the case, I will ride the crests and troughs of the waves with it. Developers who moan and complain when their favorite development tool shifts gears and the rules change are simply revealing how good they've had it for as long as the rules haven't changed. My bottom line: be grateful for the power of RR while keeping your eyes open for what comes next if and when BigCo takes over. If BigCo never arrives, you're still better for having explored other environments and learned from them. Besides, no *serious* programmer has only one tool in his or her kit because no one tool is a panacea.
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
On 7/9/03 5:23 PM, Shari wrote: Why not download the free running version that lasts for 30 days and see how it goes? That wouldn't tell me if it would successfully run the programs I * just * released. Why not? Why wouldn't it? I think you should just try it. Download the latest free version, which will give you a choice between using the 10-line script limited version or the fully-functional 30-day trial. Select the 30-day free trial to get the equivalent of a fully licensed version with no script limits, which will run for 30 days. Then open your latest game stack in Rev and see how it does. Make some new stacks while you are in there too. The only thing I can think of that might be different is that Rev uses different default fonts and sizes. If you have any fields that use text defaults, they may look different (text will be smaller.) Other than that, I can't think of anything that would affect your stack. MC and RR use different methods behind the scenes to ease the development process. For example, a lot of the keyboard shortcuts are different (such as how to get into the script editor.) However, once the stack is written the IDE becomes immaterial and is, in fact, almost never called on to do anything. And if the stack is made into a standalone, there is no IDE any more at all; both compile identical standalones. I can guarantee that your stacks will run identically in Revolution. Really, it isn't any different than people using their own cusomized Home stacks in HyperCard. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
re: Staying with MC IDE
It wasn't so much the IDE for me (but I know from personal experience that the 'Rev' interface on top of the MC engine can be quite distressing), it was more the licensing. Does anyone know what I mean? Please compare the two... I would vote to stay with the current licensing and IDE. JR I am just curious to know how many people are planning on staying with MC and being active in maintaining its IDE? ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Interface on top of IDE
I am not sure what all of this 'hype' is about. The MetaCard 'front end' source has always been available to every licensed user...which is how RunRev developed their interface. Let's not make this something 'magical', please. Revolution is an interface on top of the MC IDE...a lot of work went into that, so I respect it. But it is something anyone had the opportunity to do...but not anymore. THAT is what this is about. Revolution had to secure this 'loop hole', and I don't blame them. But if Scott wasn't aware that he was helping them secure this position, I would have to say he is quite naiive. Well, at least it can't be done with MC anymore...that doesn't mean there are no other options. Revolution does not 'own' xTalk. There are a number of things happening that should make all of this a minor point... ;-) JR By creating an OpenSource front end, Scott has assured the future of this product, regardless of what happens. This is enough insurance for me. --Chipp ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Interface on top of IDE
I am not sure what all of this 'hype' is about. The MetaCard 'front end' source has always been available to every licensed user...which is how RunRev developed their interface. Let's not make this something 'magical', please. Revolution is an interface on top of the MC IDE...a lot of work went into that, so I respect it. But it is something anyone had the opportunity to do...but not anymore. THAT is what this is about. Revolution had to secure this 'loop hole', and I don't blame them. But if Scott wasn't aware that he was helping them secure this position, I would have to say he is quite naiive. It remains to be seen if RR will remove the restriction allowing Rev to be used to develop other IDEs. If they own the engine then they can afford to now remove that restriction as far as I can see. Why anyone would want to do such a thing I'll never know. Well, at least it can't be done with MC anymore...that doesn't mean there are no other options. Revolution does not 'own' xTalk. There are a number of things happening that should make all of this a minor point... ;-) It's always good when *things* happen isn't it. Monte ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
OracleCard=OMO?
Dan Shaefer wrote: ...OracleCard, which is what Oracle turned PLUS into, was a fantastic, dynamite product. But its price tag was necessarily low, profit margins modest, and demand for it anemic. Eventually, Oracle cut it loose Is this the same product that was known as Oracle Media Objects? -Kurt _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Smaller than milliseconds?
Is there any way to access a time period/measurement smaller than milliseconds in either MetaCard or Rev? Nelson Zink ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Interface on top of IDE
Hello, It remains to be seen if RR will remove the restriction allowing Rev to be used to develop other IDEs. Reminder : FreeGUI has long ago been granted immunity from this clause, by the man himself, e.g. Kevin. You can use RR (or MC) to contribute to the development of FreeGUI. Just so y'all remember, Alain Farmer __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Smaller than milliseconds?
On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 08:30 PM, Nelson Zink wrote: Is there any way to access a time period/measurement smaller than milliseconds in either MetaCard or Rev? the long seconds I get microsecond resolution on OS X on my blue white and on my MDD Macs. It may be different on other OS's. Dar Scott ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: OracleCard=OMO?
Dan Shaefer wrote: ...OracleCard, which is what Oracle turned PLUS into, was a fantastic, dynamite product. But its price tag was necessarily low, profit margins modest, and demand for it anemic. Eventually, Oracle cut it loose Is this the same product that was known as Oracle Media Objects? -Kurt Yep, one and the same. OMO came later and had some nifty MM extensions.
[ANN] Explosive Demo Stack
Howdy Lists: For better or for worse, it is human nature to destroy things... Thus we have a new demo stack available via our stack viewer which provides a couple of examples of explosion animation: explode a line of image text or shatter a box into little images. Based on our previously announced Ease stack, this stack is called TNT (scroll to the bottom of the list). To get the stack, enter one of the following in your Rev or MC message box: go stack url http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev; go stack url http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.mc; Have fun being destructive... Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.tactilemedia.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
Hi Dan! 1) Companies aren't in the mad acquistion mode in this economy -- and I doubt this will turn around very soon; That's not how I read things right now, Chipp. Oracle is certainly in acquisition mode. Always is. They're trying a hostile takeover of PeopleSoft as we speak. There seems to me to be a LOT of consolidation and acquisition going on at the moment. Yes, you are correct about Oracle. But, as you know, Oracle is purchasing Peoplesoft as a preemptive measure, not as part of a tool collecting strategy. Oracle wants Peoplesoft's customers. Also, Oracle (as you know) would probably be the last company to purchase RR based upon the disaster they had with OMO. What I'm talking about is the nonsensical 'rollup' strategy which was so popular in the dotcom boom days, where the goal was to grow a company by purchasing many other companies (business sense or not). Because of the inflated stock prices, the market cap of these companies was *HUGE* (I remember here in Austin, Vignette corp had a larger market cap than Disney!). This huge valuation enabled companies to acquire other companies, regardless of business fit, for a simple stock swap...it's how AOL got so big. This isn't happening any more. I doubt we'll ever see this type of mass acquisition again in our lifetime. 2) Scotland is far far away; Not in a networked world. Perhaps, but in the fast moving networked world of VC's and Enterprise Corporations, Scotland is probably not on the radar. Many years ago, I bought a medium sized company in Tokyo. My Board fought the acquisition the whole way -- partly based on the fact the company was outside the legal juristiction of the US. Unless RR is actively pursuing a merger strategy, they may go unnoticed for quite some time... 1. Failure to own your core technology is often fatal, either because investors won't give you money or because you bet your company on someone else's business plan. Those of us who choose to use RR (or MC for that matter) as a development platform run a HUGE risk and we shouldn't minimize that risk. If Oracle or Macromedia or Microsoft or anyone else came along and dangled enough dollars in front of the RR owners, they would be forced to sell; their shareholders wouldn't allow them to do any less. Similarly, if we choose to use not RR but, say, Python (still my favorite development language, suffering from all-but-nonexistent IDE), we still face a risk. The risk is arguably smaller because there are a lot of people who can maintain Python and keep it going. But there is always a risk that the core team will decide to retire and abandon the project. Its continuation then is tenuous. Dan, most excellent point! This is and should be a huge concern for those of us out there using RR technology as a basis for our products. And, subsequently one of the main reasons I decided to invest in RR. In fact, I encourage others to do the same, because being a shareholder does give you a level of access to the management team. Not that I'm involved in any decision making, but it's nice to know where things are heading ;-) 2. When big companies acquire small ones for their technology, they most often botch it up or bury it. OracleCard, which is what Oracle turned PLUS into, was a fantastic, dynamite product. But its price tag was necessarily low, profit margins modest, and demand for it anemic. Eventually, Oracle cut it loose. I spent a lot of time developing OracleCard apps and writing about it. All that time went down the toilet except for what I learned that turns out to be useful elsewhere. Yes, agreed. My hope is that such a deal would involve creating some support for legacy users. In fact, I would hope RR makes some sort of public statement about the future of the technology 'just in case.' Besides, no *serious* programmer has only one tool in his or her kit because no one tool is a panacea. Yep, that's the *best* insurance! ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 03:23 PM, Shari wrote: Why not download the free running version that lasts for 30 days and see how it goes? Best regards, Mark Talluto That wouldn't tell me if it would successfully run the programs I * just * released. Shari C I am not sure I follow. You should have no problems opening up your stacks in Rev. The only problem is that with the totally free version, you will not be able to edit your scripts beyond the line limit. But, they have a full version that will run for 30 days that you can edit your stacks with. Compile your recent work on Rev to your platforms of choice and see how it goes. I have just tried this on a couple of my projects and it is going well. No compatibility problems yet. Best regards, Mark Talluto http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
