clamav out of date?!
LibClamAV warning - this version of the ClamAV engine is outdated But I just upgraded to OBSD 4.0, upgraded my clamav package, and verified I'm running the latest (0.90) version: # clamd -V ClamAV 0.90/2921/Sat Mar 24 07:52:12 2007 Also, per the ClamAV FAQ, I checked the following: # whereis freshclam /usr/local/bin/freshclam # whereis clamscan /usr/local/bin/clamscan # ldd `which freshclam` /usr/local/bin/freshclam: StartEnd Type Open Ref GrpRef Name exe 10 0 /usr/local/bin/freshclam 0a9ff000 2aa19000 rlib 01 0 /usr/local/lib/libclamav.so.3.0 0b0e4000 2b0ee000 rlib 02 0 /usr/local/lib/libcurl.so.3.4 04c99000 24ca1000 rlib 03 0 /usr/lib/libz.so.4.1 0b02d000 2b05c000 rlib 03 0 /usr/lib/libcrypto.so.13.0 0c5bf000 2c5ca000 rlib 03 0 /usr/lib/libssl.so.11.0 08d5a000 28d6 rlib 02 0 /usr/local/lib/libgmp.so.6.3 04c45000 24c49000 rlib 02 0 /usr/local/lib/libbz2.so.10.4 0f788000 2f791000 rlib 01 0 /usr/lib/libpthread.so.6.3 0f181000 2f1b2000 rlib 01 0 /usr/lib/libc.so.39.3 00a71000 00a71000 rtld 01 0 /usr/libexec/ld.so Where have I gone wrong? Thnx, Jay
Re: spamd unnecessarily abrasive?
On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 02:16:49PM +0100, the unit calling itself Peter N. M. Hansteen wrote: Isn't this a bit over the top? Well, people don't read these strings at all unless they're looking at spamd source code or doing a telnet yourhost.tld smtp for debugging purposes. The message you quote here is essentially just a preserved version of the telnet to smtp case. So - are you saying that these strings will never show up in the headers of an email message returned to a legitimate sender? FWIW, this is a sincere question. Occasionally, I have legit business contacts that report their messages to me don't get delivered. I would not want potentially offensive messages to show up in the headers of their bounced messages. Thanks, Jay
DNSBL ratings
I'm reviewing the DNSBLs I have in my sendmail configuration: * dnsbl.sorbs.net * bl.spamcop.net * sbl.spamhaus.org * cbl.abuseat.org * ipwhois.rfc-ignorant.org Is there a rating service that anybody's aware of that rates the quality of these services? Thnx, Jay
spamd unnecessarily abrasive?
I was testing a new DNSBL, and got the test results shown below: I was under the impression that spamd was supposed to politely defer connections from unknown/greylisted hosts. The dialogue below suggests that the assumption is that the unknown host is a spammer (which is true 99% of the time, but still...) Isn't this a bit over the top? Rgds, Jay - TEST RESULTS --- Date: 20 Feb 2007 03:34:43 - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Your SBL test report Testing your SBL block. See http://www.crynwr.com/spam/ for more info. Please note that this test will not tell you if your server is open for relaying. Instead, it tests to see if your server blocks email from IP addresses listed in various blocking lists; in this case, the SBL list. Here's how the conversation looked from sbl.crynwr.com. Note that some sites don't apply the SBL block to postmaster, so I use your envelope sender as the To: address. I connected to 67.33.XX.YYY and here's the conversation I had: 220 kingcull.cullmail.com ESMTP spamd IP-based SPAM blocker; Mon Feb 19 21:34:43 2007 helo sbl.crynwr.com 250 Hello, spam sender. Pleased to be wasting your time. mail from: 250 You are about to try to deliver spam. Your time will be spent, for nothing. rcpt to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 451 Temporary failure, please try again later. Terminating conversation
Re: openbsd + external sensor (t?, humidity, ...)
check out tinyos... get a cheap mote w/ USB, sprinkle other motes around as required. Jay On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 10:34:06AM +0100, the unit calling itself Julien TOUCHE wrote: Hi i'm currently looking for solution to monitor external environment from an openbsd server. i've found some (linux) apps http://www.digitemp.com/software.shtml http://www.redge.net/frogd/fr/ http://owfs.sourceforge.net/index.html http://misterhouse.sourceforge.net/ some integrated sensor (a bit expensive) http://www.eesensors.com/websensor.html http://www.sensorprobe.fr/ http://thermotrack.free.fr and less expensive but with more electronic http://perso.orange.fr/atexa_elec/ds1921/ds1921.htm http://z-graphix.com/linux/temperature/howto.html except this one: http://froggyhome.com/ has anyone advise to find cheap sensors (temperature, but also humdity, pressure, light, electricity before UPS, ...) which are known to work with openbsd ? thanks Regards Julien
wireless vulnerability
I received the following from the SANS mailing list earlier today: Windows laptops with wireless cards that use Broadcom device drivers (Broadcom chips are used in machines from HP, Dell, Gateway, and eMachines) are directly vulnerable to the attack that has gotten so much press on Macintosh wireless. You are vulnerable if your wireless card is turned on, even if you are not connected to a wireless access point. Does anyone know if the vulnerability is actuall in the OS (Windoze) or is it in the driver itself? Thnx, Jay
Re: Do mp3 concatenation programs exist?
Doesn't 'audacity' concatenate mp3 files? On Sat, Oct 21, 2006 at 09:46:48PM +0300, the unit calling itself Peter Philipp wrote: On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 11:41:43PM +0300, Peter Philipp wrote: license for your own programs. Now all I gotta do is bang out my program based on this info. :-) Just a followup on this, I did bang out this program and have been spending the greater part of the day re-concatenating my old mp3 clips. Remember my original need for this, I disconnect/reconnect my pppoe every minute. This gives me a new IP every minute. Since there is an overlap on the MP3 streaming server I'm able to concatenate the pieces together based on a series of checksums that are part of the MP3 format. If you would like to see my program you can download it from https://ssl-id.de/centroid.eu/peter/merge-mp3-clips.c [checksum: MD5 (src/misc/merge-mp3-clips.c) = 9281305ab48233aa86d2df3c184b0b93 ] To make it use for your stuff it probably needs a bit of editing/hardcoding. I hardcoded the directories and the files have the format ckln.`date +%s`. The listening of this is a pleasure again without skips, repeats and screeches. This program can also be used for groups on the Internet. Say you want to protect your identity from MP3 streaming vendors and have a few friends on the Internet you can all download a minute of listening at different offsets in time (crontabbed perhaps?) and then change your IP. During the download of the stream you don't do any network activity, that way noone can correlate your IP to any other service on the Internet (prior to the download you also change IP). At the end of each download the MP3 clip is uploaded to a central server or on a P2P network and re-assembled with similar programs such as this for your uninterupted listening pleasure. This pretty well protects your privacy globally and noone can be sure who is listening into a certain program for a long time, noone can proove that you are interested in a certain topic/discussion (say if someone talks about coups, rebellions, dissent), all they'll be able to tell is that someone listened for a minute and then had enough (hardly incriminating them in orwellian societies/states). Have fun! -peter -- Here my ticker tape .signature My name is Peter Philipp lynx -dump http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pufferfisholdid=20768394; | sed -n 131,137p http://centroid.eu So long and thanks for all the fish!!!
Re: cvs timeouts?
On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 03:56:58PM -0500, the unit calling itself J Moore wrote: Attempts to update my source tree fail repeatedly from several servers (see output below). Any ideas on how to correct this? Thnx, J ssh: connect to host anoncvs3.usa.openbsd.org port 22: Connection timed out cvs [update aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any) Ach! - Never mind... my #$(*@ ISP changed DNS servers, and I forgot to make the adjustments in /var/named/etc/named.conf J
WordPress support
Wordpress ver 1.5 is in the package list for OpenBSD 3.9. The latest version of Wordpress is 2.0.4. Is Wordpress being actively maintained on OpenBSD? Thanks, Jay
cvs timeouts?
Attempts to update my source tree fail repeatedly from several servers (see output below). Any ideas on how to correct this? Thnx, J ssh: connect to host anoncvs3.usa.openbsd.org port 22: Connection timed out cvs [update aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any)
Lenovo laptops on OpenBSD
I've got to buy a couple of laptops, and want to get something that's as open source friendly as possible. I know at one time, there were a number of OpenBSD users that were enthusiastic about ThinkPads. Are the Lenovo-manufactured ThinkPads still open-source friendly? The T60 or T60p look like reasonable units for my applications - anyone got any pros or cons they can share? Thanks, Jay
Re: saslauthd issue?
On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 10:51:02PM -0700, the unit calling itself Kian Mohageri wrote: B14xVu: Undefined variable. where B14xVu is a fragment of the password. The full password was: V$B14xVu I tried this on other user/password combinations, and got reasonable results. But the $ char seems to cause a problem consistently. In all other cases, the result was either: Have you tried escaping the $ char to make sure the shell doesn't interpret it? V\$B14xVu Yes - sorry I failed to mention that... esc'ing the $ does get by, but I've just never ever heard of having to escape a password... does that seem logical? shouldn't it at least be documented? Thnx, J
saslauthd issue?
I'm in the process of getting dovecot set up, and unfortunately that also entails re-building sendmail to add SASL support, etc. I've installed the cyrus-sasl-2.1.21p2.tgz package on OBSD 3.9, and following a couple of on-line HOW-TO's for help. As I was inching my way along, testing as I go, I noticed something odd. /usr/local/sbin/testsaslauthd -u user -p password (NOTE: The testsaslauthd app is used to verify the saslauthd daemon is working properly; I assume it calls saslauthd, but there is no man page for it, so this is just a guess.) This test worked on the first user id and pw I tried, so I assumed saslauthd was working correctly. Later, while troubleshooting a stubborn issue, I tried it with another userid and password, and got the following result: B14xVu: Undefined variable. where B14xVu is a fragment of the password. The full password was: V$B14xVu I tried this on other user/password combinations, and got reasonable results. But the $ char seems to cause a problem consistently. In all other cases, the result was either: 0: OK Success. - or - 0: NO authentication failed At this point, I'm not sure what's going on. I'd appreciate it if someone else could try this experiment, and post your findings here. Thanks, J
Re: why no SASL in sendmail?
On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 01:02:31AM -0500, the unit calling itself Jacob Yocom-Piatt wrote: Original message Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 00:47:18 -0500 From: J Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: why no SASL in sendmail? To: misc@openbsd.org I need to support mail for mobile users. Consensus appears to be that this is best done w/ a combination of SASL (authentication) STARTTLS (encryption). However, sendmail isn't compiled with SASL support: # sendmail -d0.1 -bv Version 8.13.4 Compiled with: DNSMAP LOG MAP_REGEX MATCHGECOS MILTER MIME7TO8 MIME8TO7 NAMED_BIND NETINET NETINET6 NETUNIX NEWDB NIS PIPELINING SCANF STARTTLS TCPWRAPPERS USERDB XDEBUG Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but is this because there are issues with SASL? Or is there a better way to provide smtp services for mobile users? i believe this has been beaten to death. search the archives for the remains. Thanks - I will... but it didn't appear prominently in my Google search.
Re: SATA DVD Support?
On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 12:56:21AM +0200, the unit calling itself Rogier Krieger wrote: I guess that squelches plans for a SATA HDD as well :( If by that you mean you expect OpenBSD to not support SATA HDDs, I can happily assure you you're wrong. OpenBSD supports various SATA controllers (such as your SiI 3112, the SiI 3114, etc.). I yet have to encounter a SATA HDD it does not support. OK, thanks - that's good news! Regarding SATA DVD drives, I have no experience with those (as in: I have yet to encounter them) so I cannot tell you whether they should work or not. Judging from Jacob's dmesg segment earlier in this thread, it appears they do not work (at least no the Plextor units). Danke, J
SATA DVD Support?
I'm building a systeme considering a SATA DVD drive (Plextor PX-755SA). Anyone used one of these in a recent version of OpenBSD, or have any other thoughts on SATA DVD compatibility? Thnx, Jay
Re: SATA DVD Support?
On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 01:34:41PM -0500, the unit calling itself Jacob Yocom-Piatt wrote: Original message I'm building a systeme considering a SATA DVD drive (Plextor PX-755SA). Anyone used one of these in a recent version of OpenBSD, or have any other thoughts on SATA DVD compatibility? i've got a SATA DVD drive in this machine and it doesn't get recognized in the dmesg: pciide0 at pci1 dev 11 function 0 CMD Technology SiI3112 SATA rev 0x02: DMA pciide0: using irq 11 for native-PCI interrupt pciide0: port 0: device present, speed: 1.5Gb/s wd0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0: ST3200822AS wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA48, 190782MB, 390721968 sectors wd0(pciide0:0:0): using BIOS timings, Ultra-DMA mode 6 VV pciide0: port 1: device present, speed: 1.5Gb/s ^^ pciide1 at pci0 dev 9 function 0 NVIDIA nForce2 IDE rev 0xa2: DMA, channel 0 configured to compatibility, channel 1 configured to compatibility wd1 at pciide1 channel 0 drive 0: Maxtor 6L300R0 wd1: 16-sector PIO, LBA48, 286188MB, 586114704 sectors wd1(pciide1:0:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 6 pciide1: channel 1 disabled (no drives) it seems to detect that a device is present, but not any more than that. i am to understand that SATA DVD/CD-ROM drives are relatively rare. i have a plextor 712-SA or something like that. The PX-755SA is very similar to the 712SA, so I'm guessing that the 755 won't work either. I would have guessed that OpenBSD supported SATA DVD drives, but the Platforms page suggests support is very limited - I guess that squelches plans for a SATA HDD as well :( Too bad... the SATA drives are a lot faster relieve cable clutter. Thanks, Jay
Re: What do you use for MIME email?
On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 11:31:39AM -0600, the unit calling itself Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: Why would you want a MIME encoding solution in the default installation? I mean, really, what do a large majority of systems need MIME for? 1) Character set support. These days I suspect the number of Unix users who can live completely within the US-ASCII glyph set are in the minority. 2) PGP/MIME and S/MIME. Even without doing crypto processing, MIME lets the MUA display only the human readable parts without contortions. MIME has been around for 14 years. There's no excuse for any MUA not to be able to deal with it at least minimally. In the case of /usr/bin/Mail that means recognizing content types and only displaying text/* sections when printing to the screen. It doesn't *have* to be complicated. Lyndon is right... and in recognition of that I understand that the project lead is negotiating with Microsoft (through Warren Buffet) to port Outlook to OpenBSD. Theo will provide more details...
group wheel vanished?
Recently one of my 3.8 boxes has producing error messages when cron tries to run newsyslog. Following is the error message that arrives in root's inbox: newsyslog: /etc/newsyslog.conf:6: unknown group: wheel I checked, and sure enough, group wheel does not exist. I have no idea how this happened, and I hesitate to just add the group since I don't know what caused it to disappear in the first place. Any ideas or suggestions? If I upgrade to 3.9 will group wheel be re-created? Thnx, Jay
Re: group wheel vanished?
On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 02:18:15PM +1000, the unit calling itself Damien Miller wrote: On Tue, 11 Jul 2006, J Moore wrote: Recently one of my 3.8 boxes has producing error messages when cron tries to run newsyslog. Following is the error message that arrives in root's inbox: newsyslog: /etc/newsyslog.conf:6: unknown group: wheel I checked, and sure enough, group wheel does not exist. I have no idea how this happened, and I hesitate to just add the group since I don't know what caused it to disappear in the first place. Any ideas or suggestions? Fix your group file. If you suspect that your system has been tampered with, rebuild it from trusted media. Thanks... after thinking some more, there is a possibile explanation. I installed a hacked version of akpop3d several months ago. It was hacked as a favor by someone (I'd have to search the ports@ archives) who was trying to help with an installation/priveleges issue encountered while installing this package. So here's what I did to fix the problem just now: # groupinfo -v 0 namemail passwd * gid 0 members # groupadd -ov -g 0 wheel # groupinfo -v 0 namemail passwd * gid 0 So now /etc/group has two gid 0 groups. Is this a bad thing? Thnx, Jay
Re: Partition sizing
On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 10:29:51AM -0800, the unit calling itself M... wrote: Hello. I'm playing with OpenBSD 3.8 and would like some comments/advice on partitioning. I have a 500MHz test machine, 256MB RAM, 4GB H/D, 100/1Gb intel ethernet card. snip Opinions please. Get a bigger H/D... 40 GB is about the smallest you can buy today; 4 GB drives have not been made in years.
Re: Partition sizing
On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 05:42:08PM +0800, the unit calling itself Lars Hansson wrote: On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 03:30:34 -0600 Get a bigger H/D... 40 GB is about the smallest you can buy today; 4 GB drives have not been made in years. Why? 4Gb is more than enough for trying out OpenBSD. Why? What's the point of learning how to do anything on marginal, nearly-antique hardware? What is lost by using a reasonably sized, current piece of hardware? He asked for advice I think that's the best course of action. What a stupid question, Lars! Jay
Re: spamd and spews1
spews has chronic issues... it's been a hit-or-miss proposition from the beginning. On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 01:38:33PM -0700, the unit calling itself Bob Beck wrote: Spews seems to be having some issues. www.spews.org refuses connections from here. The spews list will be updated once their site is again reachable from www.openbsd.org -Bob * Bryan Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-12-30 10:49]: Recently the spews1 file that gets downloaded from openbsd.org started having a zero size. Is the spews list no longer being updated? --Bryan -- | | | The ASCII Fork Campaign \|/ against gratuitous use of threads. |
Re: Help w/ install image on compactflash(cdrom38.fs or floppy38.fs)
There are a couple of ways to do this: 1) if you have a Windoze machine: a. get a *.fs from OpenBSD b. get physdiskwrite from m0n0wall c. plug CF-USB adapter into PC, write *.fs using physdiskwrite 2) you can also do this from Linux. I use a USB-CF device and dd... I don't recall off top of my head whether I used a *.fs or *.rd. If you're still stuck, email me I'll dig up the details. Jay On Wed, Dec 14, 2005 at 10:44:05PM -0500, the unit calling itself Nick Holland wrote: kyle wrote: Hi all, Im running into a (silly) problem where I am seem not to be writing the boot install images properly to a compact flash card. Ive been trying cdrom38.fsand floppy38.fs. I write the image under linux to the compact flash(seen as hde device) as so: cat floppy38.fs /dev/hde or: dd if=floppy38.fs of=/dev/hde bs=512 But, whenever I boot off of the compactflash I get the: ERR R error when it tries to load. yep. I read up that that message is due to disk geometry not seen properly by the BIOS..But, not sure how to work around it. uh..you are trying to treat a floppy disk image like a hard disk. Bad plan. :) If I boot a linux boot image on the flash, it works w/o issue(example bootnet.img from older redhat distros). this isn't Linux :) bootnet.img doesn't sound like a floppy image, anyway. (ok, a bit of googling seems to indicate that it is.) Now, this is pretty much my only install option(via compactflash). PXE timesout(the arp timeout issue, on older intel eepro), and I dont have any ide ports(this machine is a nokia ip650 and no onboard eide, it's all compactpci). It does have a floppy controller, but I of course dont have the correct floppy drive for it..heh. So, compactflash is my only option(or, if someone can recommend a way to bootstrap via a linux install on the box). There are several things you could do. Dumping a floppy image to a hard-disk-like device is not one of them. 1: Get a CF - IDE adapter, plug it into another computer, install OpenBSD on that system to the flash device, move to the ip650. Reconfigure. 2: mount the CF on another OpenBSD machine (anyway you can -- IDE-CF adapter, USB adapter, PCMCIA adapter, whatever). fdisk the CF, do a reinit from within fdisk to make sure it has a valid MBR. Disklabel it, create a small a partition. newfs the a partition, copy over bsd.rd and boot to the a partition (maybe rename bsd.rd to bsd at this point). Do an installboot. Move CF to target machine, if you did everything right, it should boot, if you didn't rename bsd.rd to bsd, you will need to manually do a boot bsd.rd when the boot prompt comes up, install. For extra credit, do this from the boot media, without actually having OpenBSD installed on the machine you are doing the config on -- should be possible. I'd suggest option #1, esp. if you needed more advice than create a bootable disk on another machine, or wish I had provided more detail. However, you would need a IDE to CF adapter, and they aren't the easiest thing to buy at the corner electronics store, and you may be miffed by the lack of utility after this one use. Option #2 is only for those willing to re-try things a few times until they get it right -- I doubt I'd do all the steps right the first time...but then, there is a reason I'm not into sky-diving. :) Anyway, can someone give me a pointer on what I am doing incorrectly? I definitely would love to get openbsd on these boxes and not linux(I have a couple w/ linux on them already, but I only installed linux on them since Ive been running into this problem w/ openbsd). It is certainly doable. I've installed OpenBSD to a number of machines without floppy or CDROMs It does take a little help from another machine, however. Nick.
Re: openbsd web site design proposals (from HOTO write bad docs)
On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 08:24:03AM -0500, the unit calling itself Kenneth R Westerback wrote: And if it's the one-man show you claim, why don't you let the man speak for himself? Or if you've been hired as the official OpenBSD bitch, please - let us know. As far as I can recall Theo has already commented once that the website is not going to be redesigned in the forseeable future since it is accomplishing its purposes as laid out by Nick. I doubt that this topic is of sufficient interest to generate multiple comments. Well that's fine - and I assume Nick knows this? So why do you suppose he felt it necessary to jump down the guy's throat? Why not just let it go? That way, Nick could spend his time brushing up on web design instead of wasting it in this fashion? Jay
Re: openbsd web site design proposals (from HOTO write bad docs)
On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 01:57:57AM -0500, the unit calling itself STeve Andre' wrote: Why don't you cut the guy some slack - or at least shut your yap on this (puh-l-e-e-e-ze)? I don't see *any* of what you're claiming to be OpenBSD policy stated on the website. In fact I see a statement (somewhat) to the contrary: Be as politics-free as possible; solutions should be decided on the basis of technical merit. And if it's the one-man show you claim, why don't you let the man speak for himself? Or if you've been hired as the official OpenBSD bitch, please - let us know. Jay Jay, I would think that the lack of response from Theo should say something. I agree with Nick; functionality over form *any* day. The current web site is quite reasonable I think. Could it be improved? Probably. But the site is still very good, and I for one would rather see the project move along the way it has been. You know Steve, I tend to agree with you. I've never had any problems with the website. I know the person who posted the original question has the best of intentions, but I don't think he quite understands how things work. And no, there probably isn't a statement of exactly how things work. Watching the mailing lists is the way to learn. I think that *is* stated on the site. I think he did, too. That's why I don't understand Nick insulting the guy, and bashing his ideas. Clearly Nick's opinions don't mesh, but why would he pursue this cross-thread vendetta? The only result of this sort of behavior is that a potential contributor is alienated. Seems what someone would learn from watching the mailing lists and reading these acrimonious threads is that outsiders are not welcome, and new ideas are not tolerated. This is illogical: if different ideas are unwelcome, and not to be tolerated, then why isn't this list taken off-line? Frankly, sometimes this list reads more like one of a backwoods religious cult than a computer operating system. Jay
Re: openbsd web site design proposals (from HOTO write bad docs)
On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 09:54:34AM -0500, the unit calling itself Jason Dixon wrote: I don't speak for Nick, but I imagine he probably feels a bit unappreciated when folks feel like nitpicking his design, when that is probably not his job (certainly not his focus) in the first place. If you want to bitch about the design, take it to the ultimate arbitrator-- Theo, preferably OFFLIST. Where did you get the idea that *I* wanted to bitch about the design? If you'll re-read my post a bit more carefully, I don't think you'll find anywhere that I said anything derogatory about the current website. PRBP, Jay
Re: openbsd web site design proposals (from HOTO write bad docs)
On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 07:18:53AM -0800, the unit calling itself J.C. Roberts wrote: On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 08:37:56 -0600, J Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 08:24:03AM -0500, the unit calling itself Kenneth R Westerback wrote: And if it's the one-man show you claim, why don't you let the man speak for himself? Or if you've been hired as the official OpenBSD bitch, please - let us know. As far as I can recall Theo has already commented once that the website is not going to be redesigned in the forseeable future since it is accomplishing its purposes as laid out by Nick. I doubt that this topic is of sufficient interest to generate multiple comments. Well that's fine - and I assume Nick knows this? So why do you suppose he felt it necessary to jump down the guy's throat? Why not just let it go? That way, Nick could spend his time brushing up on web design instead of wasting it in this fashion? Jay, The answers to your questions are posted all over this list, namely, this frantisek character is very intentionally trolling up a storm and he's done it before in the past. You failed to notice what is really going on around you and you just reacted without thinking. None the less, you owe Nick an apology. Your official OpenBSD bitch comment was not only totally uninformed, it was way out of line. First of all: I don't know frantisek, and I don't know you. Whether he's trolling or not is a matter of opinion - not fact (unless you happen to be The Omniscient Being?). What I've observed leads me to think that the guy is sincere... and I think he's got a sense of humor (ref his comment about Debian-ugly :) And if he is trolling, BOY HOWDY! HE FOUND THE MOTHER LODE ON THIS LIST :) I know of no other list in creation where trolls would find more sport than here. I did think - I actually thought pretty carefully about what I said. I tried to avoid actually *calling* Nick the OpenBSD bitch; instead I asked him if he was. Yeah - it's kind of a fine line... Who are you to question or judge how Nick decides to spend his time? It's obvious you don't bother reading the other stuff around here, so why do you waste your time reading Nicks' posts and insulting him for telling you the truth? Frankly, I don't give two hoots how Nick spends his time. I do believe that everyone will benefit if we can keep the name calling and technical fanaticism to a minimum. This was my only point... what's yours?
Re: openbsd web site design proposals (from HOTO write bad docs)
On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 11:29:36AM -0700, the unit calling itself Spruell, Darren-Perot wrote: From: frantisek holop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] hmm, on Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 05:32:54PM +0100, Otto Moerbeek said that It's even a FAQ: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq8.html#wwwnotstd at least remove We welcome new contributors, because that is clearly not true. Sure, should be something like we welcome worthwhile contributions. Helps enforce the point that just because you think your contribution is meaningful doesn't mean it really is. Why don't people catch on that this isn't a community-driven project? DS If you're not community-driven, then please explain why you have a product offered to the community, and a public forum that is in the community. Also please explain how you avoid the apparent hypocrisy of soliciting contributions from the community, and then in the next breath tell the community that they're irrelevant. And what were your expectations when you joined a project that produced a product that real users from the community were going to use? And that the community's opinions and criticisms of this product would be discussed in an open forum? Did you expect that the community would all get starry-eyed, and say to you, Oh! It's everything I dreamed of; it's perfect! Thank you, I can think of nothing more to add. Why don't you catch on that this is not how the world works?
Re: openbsd web site design proposals (from HOTO write bad docs)
Why don't you cut the guy some slack - or at least shut your yap on this (puh-l-e-e-e-ze)? I don't see *any* of what you're claiming to be OpenBSD policy stated on the website. In fact I see a statement (somewhat) to the contrary: Be as politics-free as possible; solutions should be decided on the basis of technical merit. And if it's the one-man show you claim, why don't you let the man speak for himself? Or if you've been hired as the official OpenBSD bitch, please - let us know. Jay On Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 11:03:19PM -0500, the unit calling itself Nick Holland wrote: frantisek holop wrote: dear list, before Theo brings up the (very) valid point of haven't been able to see any proposed design (even if rejected without looking) i would like to ask fellow designers or anyone who feels like to make an openbsd site design proposal just to show that actually there is interest in making the old pages retire after so many years of faithful serving. i am willing to host all the participants' efforts as a central repository, or even only links to these pages. make some noise people, so we can say at least we tried. -f Like FreeBSD and NetBSD's redesign our web site contest. Riiight.. No. We've spent way too much time laughing at those already (both the process and the results). You can do what you want, but your work will be ignored. OpenBSD is NOT a committee-run OS project. I think a lot of people miss this. If there is ONE THING that distinguishes OpenBSD from most other OSs out there, it is the fact that OpenBSD is the work of a small group of people following the lead of *one* person. There is no question of direction, there is no five different products to accomplish same task, because we don't have the guts to make a decision and endorse just one. As has been pointed out repeatedly, OpenBSD developers develop the OS for their own use. If your uses are compatible with the developer's goals, OpenBSD is for you. If not, you quickly realize not to waste your time. You don't see OpenBSD flopping around without a clear direction. You don't end up wondering, will they change directions to meet my goals, or will they abandon my goals?. If or when Theo decides the web site should be restructured, it will be restructured. If/when that happens, I would be very surprised if something other than one of two things were to happen: 1) Theo rebuilds it and says, here's the new design. 2) Theo hires/selects ONE PERSON to redesign it, and looks at the result and says, here is the new design (or rips someone's head off). Committee design is NOT what we are about. You don't see contests for CD designs or release themes. Contrary to what some people think, we are not a web-design company. Our product is not a super-cool website. Our product is an OS we need and use. The website is just an information source about the product, maintained by software developers and documenters. When I write material to help other people with similar interests use OpenBSD, I'm not worried about if it uses the features of the best of the current crop of browsers, I want to get the information across effectively. I measure my success based on the information conveyed, not how pretty it is. I have reason to believe I do a half-way decent job at this. If someone wishes to prove they can do a better job, go for it, I'm sure Theo would love to have a more productive person doing what I do (and what he would like me to do that I'll never have time for). I won't fight it. I have not been bored in well over 20 years, I have NO problem occupying my time. BTW: quality of work will be judged on content, not style. Nick.
group ownership of /var/mail
... trying to get an errant package (akpop3d) squared away raised the following question: Some othe OSs (Linux-Fedora, and FreeBSD) assign ownership of the /var/mail directory to a group named mail; OpenBSD assigns ownership of this directory to the group wheel. Apparently akpop3d needs write access to /var/mail to create a lock file for the user's mail spool. akpop3d assumes /var/mail is owned by group mail, but allows that to be changed at startup with the -g option. This leads me to a two-part question: 1. Is there an advantage to assigning group ownership of /var/mail to wheel, or was this choice simply arbitrary? 2. To get akpop3d running should I change group ownership of /var/mail to mail (rather than giving akpop3d the '-g wheel' option)? And yes - I did email the port maintainer, but have received no response in almost a week. Thnx, Jay
Re: HOTO Write bad documentation
On Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 01:21:47AM +0100, the unit calling itself frantisek holop wrote: and i have a feeling they don't agree that openbsd must have debian-ugly pages made by c hackers in 1995 who hate html and think design is for pussies. Ha! I like that line :) ...actually, I love it! Right on, dude! Drop the hammer on that Grinch :) Jay
Re: group ownership of /var/mail
On Sat, Nov 26, 2005 at 07:53:22PM -0700, the unit calling itself Theo de Raadt wrote: Let me see if I've got this straight: I don't see any point. You just don't understand anything. So why should I bother explaining anything to you. no reason, I guess... but thanks for your valuable time. Jay
Re: group ownership of /var/mail
On Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 12:39:50AM -0500, the unit calling itself Pierre Lamy wrote: The problem is that a non-MTA is trying to write something to /var/mail, which is bad. The OpenBSD developers can't account for every third party's wierd way of doing things; you did the right thing by mailing the developer, but if they can't help you maybe you should switch to a different pop3 server. You're not going to get any constructive answers here that will satisfy you. You may be correct about constructive answers. Wrt the choice of a POP3 server, the package list (http://www.openbsd.org/3.8_packages/i386.html) says: 'akpop3d-0.7.7.tgzsmall and secure POP3 daemon' I don't know - maybe I'm asking the wrong questions? Jay J Moore wrote: On Sat, Nov 26, 2005 at 04:51:38PM -0700, the unit calling itself Theo de Raadt wrote: This leads me to a two-part question: 1. Is there an advantage to assigning group ownership of /var/mail to wheel, or was this choice simply arbitrary? 2. To get akpop3d running should I change group ownership of /var/mail to mail (rather than giving akpop3d the '-g wheel' option)? Locking should (safely) be done by spawing a copy of mail.local for the duration of the operation. This is designed to be safe even when using NFS spools. NFS spools are the reason people kept running into trouble trying to design something safe. A few years ago we settled on this method which is safe. Lots of mailer programs want direct access to the spool, and will do it wrong. Proper locking in an NFS directory like that is hard. This makes it easier. Let me see if I've got this straight: sendmail uses mail.local to deliver mail to the user's mail spool, and mail.local uses lock files of the form username.lock while it does its thing with the spool file. However, akpop3d doesn't appear to use this form of the lockfile. If that's the case I don't get the relevance of mail.local. I can appreciate that file locking in an NFS directory is hard to do; I gather then that the answer to Q 1. is that the choice was not arbitrary. If ownership of /var/mail by group wheel is not arbitrary, then it would seem that the answer to Q 2. is to run akpop3d with the option '-g wheel'. I would have thought that was not the best choice as it entrusts akpop3d with the ability to write anywhere wheel is able to - rather than just /var/mail. Analysis, comments? Thnx, Jay [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/x-pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
Re: group ownership of /var/mail
On Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 01:16:27AM -0600, the unit calling itself Matthew Weigel wrote: J Moore wrote: You may be correct about constructive answers. Wrt the choice of a POP3 server, You should probably look to http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=popa3d first. Yep - I looked at it first... but IIRC it doesn't support POP via SSL
Re: How sweet it is... :)
On Sun, Nov 20, 2005 at 03:15:30PM +0100, the unit calling itself Tobias Ulmer wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2005 at 12:46:26PM +0100, Bernd Schoeller wrote: Nov 19 16:56:21 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = +29.92s; adjusting... I would be careful using the word 'error'. I get very irritated whenever I read error in a logfile. Bernd I agree with Bernd here. How about: clock off by xx seconds, adjusting... What I in particular find funny here is that Mr. Moore replaced adjusting by adjusting... Great improvment *lol* If we had a stirling maschine in this mailing list, I could forget to pay my power bill the next three months. With all due respect, gentlemen, I think you need to warm up to the idea that clocks do have errors, and those errors do need to be corrected. The log entries simply give you a bit of information wrt what your system is doing to correct those errors. And I guess you would need to read that other thread on the subject of timekeeping before you could understand this one (ref: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8.) And finally, the irony: I can now empathize with Herr Brauer - how dare you suggest my log entries are unclear! :D Seriously though - if the words error or adjusting... don't suit your notion of a proper log entry, the OP gives you everything you need to tailor it to your own liking. V/R, Jay
Re: Motherboard brands
On Sun, Nov 20, 2005 at 08:19:18PM +0100, the unit calling itself Tim wrote: Hello I read in an earlier thread some criticism of a brand I thought was reliable/quality with OpenBSD and in general: ASUS. So what motherboard brand can you rely on for a desktop then? I've had good luck with Tyan. I've always heard Asus built good mobos, but have never tried one. My favorite (but never run OBSD on it) is a microATX board built by Biostar - M7NCG 400 ( $65 @ pricegrabber). It's got sound, graphics networking built-in, and uses an Athlon processor. I put mine in an Antec 'Aria' case which has a nifty little CF slot on the front panel. It's not a server-class mobo, but I think it makes a great low-cost, lightweight desktop. Jay
Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 07:44:39PM +1100, the unit calling itself Rod.. Whitworth wrote: On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 00:51:05 -0600, J Moore wrote: I agree that it's easy enough to do a search, and discover what ntpd is actually doing. That was actually accomplished within the first 2-3 responses to my OP - that was the easy part :) I now understand what the author *intended* in the log message. So, now that you know what it means, you are going to go on an on and on and on Any sympathy you ever had (as if!) is gone. A fanatic is one who redoubles his efforts as he loses sight of his goal. -- Ambrose Bierce plonk You are most probably correct.
How sweet it is... :)
# cp jay_ntpd.patch /usr/src # cd /usr/src # patch -p0 jay_ntpd.patch ... # cd usr.sbin/ntpd # make obj # make depend # make make install # reboot [ jay_ntpd.patch ] --- /usr/src/usr.sbin/ntpd/ntpd.c Sun Mar 13 14:29:55 2005 +++ ntpd.c Sat Nov 19 16:33:48 2005 @@ -313,9 +313,9 @@ ntpd_adjtime(double d) if (d = (double)LOG_NEGLIGEE / 1000 || d = -1 * (double)LOG_NEGLIGEE / 1000) - log_info(adjusting local clock by %fs, d); + log_info(clock error = %+-.2fs; adjusting..., d); else - log_debug(adjusting local clock by %fs, d); + log_debug(clock error = %+-.2fs; adjusting..., d); d_to_tv(d, tv); if (adjtime(tv, NULL) == -1) log_warn(adjtime failed); Nov 19 16:56:21 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = +29.92s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:00:34 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = +26.46s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:04:03 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = +17.27s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:07:31 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = +9.24s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:11:52 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = -0.63s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:16:10 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = -4.75s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:18:48 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = -4.31s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:22:09 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = -3.31s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:25:41 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = -2.55s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:28:50 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = -1.93s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:31:30 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = -1.48s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:34:21 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = -0.47s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:38:05 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = +0.39s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:41:44 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = +0.59s; adjusting... Nov 19 17:45:56 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = -0.23s; adjusting... Nov 19 18:51:13 opie ntpd[6238]: clock error = +0.16s; adjusting...
Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 09:58:28AM -0800, the unit calling itself Greg Thomas wrote: On 11/15/05, J Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 10:59:07AM +0800, the unit calling itself Lars Hansson wrote: On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:48:38 -0600 J Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At least it's not incorrect. How about: 1) local clock error=XXs, adjusting or, 2) adjusting local clock, error=XXs Error? There's no error. As many people have said before, the current log message is correct. PEBKAC. It really doesn't matter how many people say it. The words are defined in any English dictionary, and the log message is an incorrect description of what is being done. But it's a free world - you do have the option to dwell in ignorance. What part of adjusting do you not understand? Nowhere in the log message does it say that that adjusting is finished. You are just being obnoxious for obnoxious' sake because you didn't get your way. Greg No, Greg - I'm not trying to be obnoxious for obnoxious' sake - are you? What part of the definition of the word by to you not understand? Have you looked the word up in a dictionary? Have you imagined yourself in a situation where you were standing in front of a clock, and someone said to you, adjust that clock by 30 minutes, Greg. Are you telling me that you would turn to this person, and say, I'm sorry, but I don't understand what that means... do you mean change the time from 12:00 to 12:30, or do you mean change the clock by a tiny amount? What part of that do you not understand, Greg? Huh? I'd really like for you to explain the source of your confusion to the entire friggin' world here. Were you sick that day when the teacher went over this? Now, that said - i want you to leave me the f**k alone, and go somewhere else to get your English lessons. Jay
Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 01:02:11AM +, the unit calling itself Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2005/11/18 17:53:45, J Moore wrote: No, Greg - I'm not trying to be obnoxious for obnoxious' sake - are you? What part of the definition of the word by to you not understand? Have you looked the word up in a dictionary? Have you imagined yourself in a situation where you were standing in front of a clock, and someone said to you, adjust that clock by 30 minutes, Greg. 'adjusting' is a good choice, since a search on list archives using that as a keyword will find plenty of explanation... ntpd(8) *may* benefit from a few explanatory words, although that's debatable, since adjtime(2) is referenced and explains things well enough. I agree that it's easy enough to do a search, and discover what ntpd is actually doing. That was actually accomplished within the first 2-3 responses to my OP - that was the easy part :) I now understand what the author *intended* in the log message. In fact, I worry I shall never forget this lesson - to the point that I may begin doubting others when they make simple and unambiguous statements. For example: Wife: Wash the car. Me: Uh, do you mean the *entire* car, or just the front bumper? Broker: This year's premium is increasing by $1,000. Me: Uh, do you mean it's going up by $1 this year, and each year thereafter until the 1000th year? Doctor: You're 12 pounds overweight. Me: Uh, do you mean as of today, or sometime before I die? Guard: Leave the building Me: Uh, do you mean take one step toward the door, and wait for further instructions, or do you mean go to the front door, and exit? Discovering the intended meaning of the ntpd log message was easy enough. The point that seems to be causing most of the name-calling and controversy is this: If a message or instruction is ambiguous or vague or contains unfamiliar words or concepts, then I would expect to have to do a little research to reach an understanding of its meaning. However if a statement is clear and concise, and contains no new words or concepts then I tend to take it at face value, and I don't do any research. I don't think I am alone in this practice (although...). There also seem to be quite a few (several of them have written me off-list) who maintain that the phrase in the log message is either: a) a clear and correct description of ntpd's adjustment, or b) ambiguous or fuzzy enough to warrant research to find out what it really means. I maintain that the message adjusting clock by XXs is neither of the above. I'll also say that I don't consider myself to be an authority on the English language (I don't think you have to be to divine the meaning of the phrase in question). But since there seems to be no end to the controversy, insults and name-calling in this forum, and I'm getting really tired of the discussion, I propose to settle the matter as follows: 1. I will place a cashier's check in the amount of $2,000 in escrow with a trusted third party TBD; I will call this the OpenBSD Good Grammar Prize. The Prize will in effect be my wager that the subject ntpd log message is clearly inaccurate. 2. Anyone who wishes to wager to the contrary may likewise place a cashier's check in the amount of $2,000 (US) with the same trusted third party. 3. Final judgement as to the meaning of the ntpd log message will be vested with a panel of judges. Qualifications and selection criteria for the judges is TBD, but all judges will be drawn from the faculty of the English department at an accredited university in the US. 4. Distribution of the wagers will be made following the judge's final decision. Distribution will be as follows: a) If the judges agree with my interpretation, my $2,000 check is returned to me. The other wager's $2,000 is donated to the OpenBSD project on the condition that the log message be changed to TBD. (That's why it's called The OpenBSD Good Grammar Prize). If the OpenBSD team declines to make the change, then the other wager's $2,000 will be donated to the Free Software Foundation. b) If the judges disagree with my interpretation, my $2,000 check will be sent to either the other wager, the OpenBSD project, or any other organization that he designates. The other wager's check will be returned to him. In any case, the best I can do is break even. The other wager can capture the cash for himself, donate it to OpenBSD, donate it to the American Literacy Council, or whatever... 5. The judges will need some written guidance on how to conduct their evaluation. Whoever wishes to wager should also submit their proposed criteria. I've drafted some instructions to the judges below that can be used as a point of departure. So let's get to it, ladies and gentlemen... are there any players? Draft Instructions to Panel of Judges: Once impaneled, each of the judges will be instructed that their mission is to evaluate a simple phrase
Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 05:46:40PM -0800, the unit calling itself Ted Unangst wrote: [i was trying to stay away, but can't.] On 11/18/05, J Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 09:58:28AM -0800, the unit calling itself Greg Thomas wrote: What part of adjusting do you not understand? Nowhere in the log message does it say that that adjusting is finished. You are just being obnoxious for obnoxious' sake because you didn't get your way. Greg No, Greg - I'm not trying to be obnoxious for obnoxious' sake - are you? What part of the definition of the word by to you not understand? Have you looked the word up in a dictionary? Have you imagined yourself in a situation where you were standing in front of a clock, and someone said to you, adjust that clock by 30 minutes, Greg. the log message says adjusting. that's the present participle (not to be confused with gerunds). it means not done yet. Agreed, and it's definitely not a gerund q: what are you doing in front of the clock? a1: i adjust the time (this instant only) -- no a2: i adjusted the time -- no a3: i will adjust the time -- no a4: i'm adjusting the time -- we have a winner. will you be done adjusting the time the instant that the sentence is out of your mouth? or will the adjusting [gerund form here] continue for some time after the statement is issued? You have ignored the word by in the log message... according to Webster, by = in the amount of Therefore: adjusting... by = adjusting in the amount of
New Thread [ was Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd.
3.8] Reply-To: On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 08:38:34AM -0700, the unit calling itself Spruell, Darren-Perot wrote: From: Ted Walther [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 08:51:12AM +0100, Otto Moerbeek wrote: This adujsting by information is not available to ntpd. ntpd requests an adjustment using the adjtim(2) system call. The argument is the actual offset. It is up to the kernel to decide how fast the adjustment will be done. Ah. In that case, I'd like to see the following syslog lines: Tue Nov 15 20:31:33 NTPD clock is 60.000356s behind, calling adjtim() ... Tue Nov 15 22:48:33 NTPD clock is 1.001856s ahead, calling adjtim() And I'd like a gold-plated commode. What gives anyone the impression that things like this are up for public input and democratic vote? This is one of the stupidest points that has ever been brought to the list. Ah - another self-proclaimed authority list-Nazi. Well, gee - we've all been waiting for you to weigh in on this, and clue us in on what's appropriate for discussion, and what's not. I'm so glad that you finally resolved this. Live with the log message. It's functional as it is. It's been working for months. It was unclear to one guy who couldn't grok what it was trying to say. Uh-oh... Darren made a boo-boo. There was more than one. Hey - did you actually read the thread, or did you think that was unnecessary to make your call? Don't make stupid suggestions as to what you'd like it to aesthetically appear as. Especially when you don't understand the implications of what you're asking for. Make no mistake, square pants: This post has *nothing* to do with the log entry. This post is about callin' you down - I'm callin' you a friggin' moron. And if you don't like it, feel free to edit the source code and compile your way to happiness. Gong! goofed again... already been covered. BMA, Jay
Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 10:23:00AM +0100, the unit calling itself Henning Brauer wrote: 'adjusting local clock by XXs' The word 'by' is a preposition with a specific meaning in the context of its use... it means in the amount of... but that's not what it means here, is it? No, it does not. Therefore, the log entry is *inaccurate*. it is perfectly accurate. it says adjusting by, and that is what it does. it does not say hard setting or anything. I won't change the log message, case closed. It *is* an inaccurate statement of what ntpd is doing to the system's time. ntpd is your product - if you're happy with this little flaw, then that's fine - leave it as is. But again, The emperor has no clothes! Jay PS - It would seem mind closed would be more accurate description of this situation than case closed, eh?
Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 09:27:33AM -0500, the unit calling itself Bakken, Luke wrote: Shane J Pearson wrote: J, On 15/11/2005, at 9:42 AM, J Moore wrote: Prior discussions notwithstanding, the fact is that the log messages are misleading. I *understand* now... if the log messages were written differently, I never would've had to ask. Reasonable person scenario: o Notice odd ntpd log entries. o #man ntpd o Notice SECOND paragraph says: ntpd uses the adjtime(2) system call to correct the local system time without causing time jumps. Adjustments larger than 128ms are logged using syslog(3). The threshold value is chosen to avoid having local clock drift thrash the log files. o Crisis averted. Even I remember the prior thread about ntpd log messages. Jay should be happy he has the option of changing the log message himself, even though the ntpd manual page explains the situation clearly. The code for ntpd is readily available. I am very happy about that Luke - I really am. I agree with everything you've said. What's prolonged this discussion is that some people insist that the phrase in the log message can somehow be justified as being both clear and correct. It is neither, and those who maintain otherwise are either: a) ignorant of the English language, or b) like the officials sent to preview the emperor's new clothes (http://www.andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheEmperorsNewClothes_e.html) Hmmm... I wonder if a project has ever forked over the grammar in the log message? :) Jay
Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 01:14:56PM +0100, the unit calling itself knitti wrote: The word 'by' is a preposition with a specific meaning in the context of its use... it means in the amount of... but that's not what it means here, is it? No, it does not. Therefore, the log entry is *inaccurate*. come on, if you are a native speaker (as if that mattered), and fluent _reader_, you'd have noticed the words of Alexander Hall in this thread: It is changing it by 60 seconds, but very slowly. That means: the clock is changed by the amount of 60 sec, but not immediately. Which is fine in my book, because I don't like time jumps (they are soo confusing). And it should be correct english, which, of course, I am not to judge, since my last friggin' course in English was back in the days I went to school. --knitti You missed the point. I fear your problems run deeper... can you not read and understand the posts in this thread?
Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 08:07:21PM -0500, the unit calling itself Nick Holland wrote: Sorry, Henning, but I didn't understand the error message, either, until I read the man pages. It's certainly not a big deal, but it's easy enough to polish the priceless msg next time you're in there. 'adjusting local clock rate to compensate XXs offset 12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 Oh, come on. Your Magic Message there is subject to the EXACT SAME misinterpretation. Both key on missing the use of adjusting rather than adjusted. As has already been pointed out, adjusting implies on-going, adjusted implies done. People will take compensate to mean compensated and wonder why their clock is STILL off. That short message is technically correct, and while it can be misinterpreted, just about every short summary is also subject to the EXACT SAME misinterpretation. The ONLY reason you think this line is better is because you didn't understand the message and you think it isn't your fault. So you find out what is going on, you change some words, it becomes obvious to you. What you fail to see is that if you understand what is going on, it is OBVIOUS all along. If you don't understand what is going on, it will take several paragraphs for every log entry. Log entries should be clear and short: I don't understand your logic, and your tone is abusive and confrontational. If you just want everyone to shut-up, and agree with whatever you say, you should just come out and say so. If you want to build a logical argument to support your thesis, you have fallen short. For example, your simple-minded rule for log entries... problem is that short and clear are often competing objectives. For example, from the very same logfile, let's look at an entry from dhcpd: Nov 15 04:13:30 opie dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.1.207 from 00:e0:4c:cf:15:90 via sis1 Now that one doesn't fit on a single line, does it? How would you propose exactly to make that entry both clear and 80 chars? If there is something worse than the general level of illiteracy in the computer industry, it has to be the people PRETENDING to be sophisticated in human communications who are actually quite inept at it. Discussions like this one go so far to demonstrate this... Amen.
Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 09:53:33AM +0800, the unit calling itself Lars Hansson wrote: On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 15:08:54 -0500 Kurt B. Kaiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, Henning, but I didn't understand the error message, either, until I read the man pages. Hey guess what, that's exactly what man pages are for. If something is unclear you look it up. End of story. Your comment brings us full circle on this thread... that's the whole point: if the log message were clear you wouldn't have to read a man page to divine its meaning. So, yes - I agree with you: if something is unclear, you look it up. In this particular case however, the log message *was* clear. Unfortunately, it is also worded incorrectly. In this case, I did read the man page, and frankly, I think it's a little fuzzy also. At least it wasn't clear enough to revise the false impression that the log entry created. It's certainly not a big deal, but it's easy enough to polish the priceless msg next time you're in there. 'adjusting local clock rate to compensate XXs offset That's even more confusing. At least it's not incorrect. How about: 1) local clock error=XXs, adjusting or, 2) adjusting local clock, error=XXs
Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 01:22:00PM +1100, the unit calling itself Damien Miller wrote: On Tue, 15 Nov 2005, J Moore wrote: Nov 15 04:13:30 opie dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.1.207 from 00:e0:4c:cf:15:90 via sis1 Now that one doesn't fit on a single line, does it? How would you propose exactly to make that entry both clear and 80 chars? This message is long because it conveys a quantity of useful information, not because it is full of redundant verbiage. So, your point is that you make the message just long enough to communicate useful information - is that correct?
timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
I just installed 3.8 on a Soekris net4801 that's been laying around for a while (unused, unpowered). I noticed after install that time was off by like 5 months, so I set it to within a few minutes of current time/date from the wall clock. I've been checking the logs, and this is what I'm seeing... this has been going on for about 8 hours now. Why is ntpd having to make 60+ second adjustments every 3-5 minutes? It would appear the clock on the Soekris is really BFU. I researched this a bit, and found out there were (are) some issues with timekeeping on the net4801's processor, but the other platforms (Linux, FreeBSD) seemed to have solved the problem by using a different clock. I saw nothing that would suggest any current problems with OpenBSD. WTF, O? Thanks, Jay Nov 14 06:30:10 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -91.931803s Nov 14 06:34:22 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -90.983786s Nov 14 06:37:42 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -90.136183s Nov 14 06:38:01 opie ntpd[14058]: peer 213.61.224.44 now valid Nov 14 06:41:25 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -88.969563s Nov 14 06:44:33 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -88.039023s Nov 14 06:45:45 opie ntpd[14058]: peer 65.102.104.139 now valid Nov 14 06:48:48 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -87.275355s Nov 14 06:52:15 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -86.527847s Nov 14 06:55:43 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -85.775024s Nov 14 06:57:38 opie ntpd[14058]: peer 65.102.104.139 now invalid Nov 14 06:58:19 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -85.221285s Nov 14 07:01:38 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -84.338437s Nov 14 07:04:48 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -83.437080s Nov 14 07:08:18 opie ntpd[14058]: peer 65.102.104.139 now valid Nov 14 07:08:40 opie ntpd[14058]: peer 65.102.104.139 now invalid Nov 14 07:08:44 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -82.500680s Nov 14 07:12:15 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -81.562691s Nov 14 07:15:44 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -80.871930s Nov 14 07:19:24 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -80.103985s Nov 14 07:19:55 opie ntpd[14058]: peer 65.102.104.139 now valid Nov 14 07:22:17 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -79.112030s Nov 14 07:26:17 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -78.507867s Nov 14 07:27:26 opie ntpd[14058]: peer 65.102.104.139 now invalid Nov 14 07:30:31 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -77.137970s Nov 14 07:34:31 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -76.275602s Nov 14 07:38:22 opie ntpd[14058]: peer 65.102.104.139 now valid Nov 14 07:38:44 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -75.556709s Nov 14 07:41:22 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -74.659299s Nov 14 07:41:38 opie ntpd[14058]: peer 65.102.104.139 now invalid Nov 14 07:44:40 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -73.778046s Nov 14 07:47:49 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -73.123884s Nov 14 07:52:09 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -72.233839s Nov 14 07:56:05 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -71.240807s Nov 14 07:59:08 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -70.277551s Nov 14 08:02:27 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -69.496544s Nov 14 08:06:30 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -68.464538s Nov 14 08:10:36 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -67.807755s Nov 14 08:14:14 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -66.636277s Nov 14 08:14:23 opie ntpd[14058]: peer 65.102.104.139 now valid Nov 14 08:17:56 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -66.035356s Nov 14 08:20:36 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -65.174887s Nov 14 08:24:20 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -64.294286s Nov 14 08:27:59 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -63.612736s
Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 03:55:21PM +0100, the unit calling itself Moritz Grimm wrote: I just installed 3.8 on a Soekris net4801 that's been laying around for a while (unused, unpowered). I noticed after install that time was off by like 5 months, so I set it to within a few minutes of current time/date from the wall clock. I've been checking the logs, and this is what I'm seeing... this has been going on for about 8 hours now. Why is ntpd having to make 60+ second adjustments every 3-5 minutes? It would appear the clock on the Soekris is really BFU. [...] Nov 14 06:30:10 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -91.931803s Nov 14 06:34:22 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -90.983786s [...] Nov 14 08:24:20 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -64.294286s Nov 14 08:27:59 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -63.612736s OpenNTPd is working as expected. It is using adjtime(2) to skew the clock, not set it -- in your case, it is slowing it down until it is synced. Hmmm... OK - I read man for adjtime(2), and I appreciate your explanation with skewing vs setting. However, the output says adjusting local clock by XX s... that seems pretty straightforward to me. I think the output is just misleading; it should say: adjusting local clock to reduce error of XXs If you told someone you were adjusting their clock by 60 seconds, I think most English-speaking people would conclude that you just changed the clock by a value of 60 seconds - not that I am making an incremental adjustment in your clock to reduce the amount of error such that it is less than 60 seconds. Some additional entries from my log show that in fact ntpd did finally reach closure as of 12:57:40 today (yeah!) Nov 14 12:29:50 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -5.494670s Nov 14 12:34:05 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -4.846304s Nov 14 12:37:03 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -3.931653s Nov 14 12:39:18 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -3.201504s Nov 14 12:43:19 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -2.477988s Nov 14 12:46:12 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -1.698618s Nov 14 12:49:53 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -0.904406s Nov 14 12:52:53 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -0.227882s Nov 14 12:57:40 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by 0.264980s Nov 14 12:57:40 opie ntpd[14058]: clock is now synced Nov 14 12:59:30 opie ntpd[14058]: peer 66.11.161.129 now invalid Nov 14 13:00:48 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by 0.652100s Nov 14 13:05:04 opie ntpd[4133]: adjusting local clock by -0.271403s This is all very cool, but I still think the log messages are misleading. Run rdate(8) to speed up the syncing process the hard way (the clock will jump.) Read up on ntpd(8)'s parameter `-s' in case you ever need to set a clock that is way off. Thanks for that... as it turns out, the wall clock that I referred to when I set the time using 'date' (immediately after the install) was off real time by about 120 seconds... ntpd took approximately 12 hours to work this off. This is fine - the log messages just threw me off. Thanks, Jay
Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 09:56:38PM +0100, the unit calling itself Alexander Hall wrote: J Moore wrote: OpenNTPd is working as expected. It is using adjtime(2) to skew the clock, not set it -- in your case, it is slowing it down until it is synced. Hmmm... OK - I read man for adjtime(2), and I appreciate your explanation with skewing vs setting. However, the output says adjusting local clock by XX s... that seems pretty straightforward to me. I think the output is just misleading; it should say: adjusting local clock to reduce error of XXs If you told someone you were adjusting their clock by 60 seconds, I think most English-speaking people would conclude that you just changed the clock by a value of 60 seconds - not that I am making an incremental adjustment in your clock to reduce the amount of error such that it is less than 60 seconds. It is changing it by 60 seconds, but very slowly. While still adjusting (remember, slowly), the time is checked again, and readjusted (slowly). http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-miscm=110201623230329w=2 Not really worth discussing again, since Henning voted ``no'' (kinda). Prior discussions notwithstanding, the fact is that the log messages are misleading. I *understand* now... if the log messages were written differently, I never would've had to ask. I don't know who Henning is, and I don't know what he voted no to, but if he voted against a clear log message, then he voted yes to confusion. Jay
Re: timekeeping on Soekris net4801 w/ ntpd. 3.8
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 01:34:27PM +1100, the unit calling itself Shane J Pearson wrote: J, On 15/11/2005, at 9:42 AM, J Moore wrote: Prior discussions notwithstanding, the fact is that the log messages are misleading. I *understand* now... if the log messages were written differently, I never would've had to ask. Reasonable person scenario: o Notice odd ntpd log entries. o #man ntpd o Notice SECOND paragraph says: ntpd uses the adjtime(2) system call to correct the local system time without causing time jumps. Adjustments larger than 128ms are logged using syslog(3). The threshold value is chosen to avoid having local clock drift thrash the log files. o Crisis averted. Come on, Shane - did you ever take a friggin' course in English? Are you telling me that the passage above makes the following one-liner clear: 'adjusting local clock by XXs' The word 'by' is a preposition with a specific meaning in the context of its use... it means in the amount of... but that's not what it means here, is it? No, it does not. Therefore, the log entry is *inaccurate*. So there is no crisis to be averted here, Shane. A developer for whom English is probably a second language mis-used the language, and created confusion. OK, that's cool... but what escapes me is this comment: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-miscm=110202770603752w=2 --- so I'll change log_info(adjusting local clock by %fs, d); into log_info(now kindly asking the kernel to adjust the clock by %f seconds but it will not do so at once so maybe it takes a while, d); --- I gather that he rejected the consensus that his choice of words was confusing? I don't know who Henning is, and I don't know what he voted no to, but if he voted against a clear log message, then he voted yes to confusion. Come on. You've been haunting these lists for long enough to know who Henning is. Cut the theatrics. No theatrics intended - since the OP, I've been informed that Henning wrote some or all of the code in ntpd. That's great - I love the code, I think his English needs some work. Jay
Re: Bug bounty for pciide/atapiscsi
On Thu, Nov 10, 2005 at 02:29:26PM +1300, the unit calling itself Stephen Nelson wrote: I tried your suggestion and got the same result as SamuraiChef, which is what I would expect - I want to use pciide, not disable it. If pciide is disabled then surely I can't read from the cdrom. I am sure that it is a problem with openbsd, not my setup. I've had many helpful suggestions but none have been able to solve this problem. The more people I talk to the more I come across this problem - so how do I get a developer's attention? I realise they're volunteers, but surely this is an important problem as it affects so many people, so it would be in the interests of the community to fix it. Stephen tongue-in-cheek Stephen, you have made a gross miscalculation. If you had taken the time to acquaint yourself with the required readings, you would know that OpenBSD dogma prescribes that developers work only on those things that interest them. Neither money, personal recognition, crass commercial interests, and least of all the problems of unwashed, ignorant users are of any concern to them. Just what the hell were you thinking, anyway? How dare you attempt to bribe an OpenShaman with money. You have sickened us all. /tongue-in-cheek
Re: FYI: new mailing list anti-spam measures
On Thu, Nov 03, 2005 at 04:13:50PM -0500, the unit calling itself Todd C. Miller wrote: The mailing list server is now using several blacklists from the SORBS project (http://www.sorbs.net) to prevent spam. So far it is using the SORBS zombie, spam, web form and dialup blacklists. This does mean that people sending mail from a dynamic IP address (cable modem, dynamic DSL or dialup) will need to relay messages through their ISP's mail server. This will probably have the biggest impact on cable modem users running their own SMTP servers. Well, let's see if this affects me...
Re: FYI: new mailing list anti-spam measures
On Thu, Nov 03, 2005 at 04:13:50PM -0500, the unit calling itself Todd C. Miller wrote: The mailing list server is now using several blacklists from the SORBS project (http://www.sorbs.net) to prevent spam. So far it is using the SORBS zombie, spam, web form and dialup blacklists. This does mean that people sending mail from a dynamic IP address (cable modem, dynamic DSL or dialup) will need to relay messages through their ISP's mail server. This will probably have the biggest impact on cable modem users running their own SMTP servers. - todd Begging your pardon, sir, but are you sure this is a good thing to do? SORBS appears to be somewhat hostile, requiring registration even to check whether or not your IP address is listed. Furthermore, if you check the spam list at www.dnsstuff.com, they indicate that the dial-up list should not be used. I assume you have implemented this because you feel spam on the list has reached an unacceptable level? Respectfully, J
Re: RAID for dummies
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 11:00:59PM -0400, the unit calling itself Nick Holland wrote: J Moore wrote: On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 07:47:48AM -0400, the unit calling itself Nick Holland wrote: Not quite sure what point you're trying to make here... are you advocating that one develop expertise in all areas to become totally self-sufficient? If so, I suppose you are all at once: thoracic surgeon, firefighter, psychiatrist, tax lawyer, microbiologist, etc, etc, etc. No, I'm advocating that if you pick of a scalpel, that you understand how to perform surgery on the species you are going to be cutting on. If you pick up a fire hose, you understand what happens when the water hits full pressure. Etc. Taxes? ok, got me there, no one understands tax law. And I'm suggesting that trying to be an expert in everything is not a realistic goal... why pick up a scalpel at all (to haul your butt out of the fire) if your neighbor has invested years in becoming a thoracic surgeon? If surgery is required, I would choose to let the experienced surgeon haul my butt out of the fire, and concentrate my energy in my field of interest. Sorry if I confused you on that point. From your original post, you said you did not desire to become an expert on RAID. You didn't talk about farming the maintenance of this system to other people. No - I can't afford to farm it out. Again, the *only* point I was trying to make is that expertise in a particular field is not a necessary condition to benefit from that field. RAID systems in the hands of people who assume magic will happen cause massive down-time problems. In the hands of people who know how to do it, yes, good things really can happen. But I doubt there are any truly mindless RAID options available. Now I'm confused... are you suggesting that the investment required to successfully use an ACS-7500 even approaches that required for the do-it-yourself RAID setup? Not at all. snip Thanks - I appreciate your views on that. Jay
Re: RAID for dummies
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 07:47:48AM -0400, the unit calling itself Nick Holland wrote: Not quite sure what point you're trying to make here... are you advocating that one develop expertise in all areas to become totally self-sufficient? If so, I suppose you are all at once: thoracic surgeon, firefighter, psychiatrist, tax lawyer, microbiologist, etc, etc, etc. No, I'm advocating that if you pick of a scalpel, that you understand how to perform surgery on the species you are going to be cutting on. If you pick up a fire hose, you understand what happens when the water hits full pressure. Etc. Taxes? ok, got me there, no one understands tax law. And I'm suggesting that trying to be an expert in everything is not a realistic goal... why pick up a scalpel at all (to haul your butt out of the fire) if your neighbor has invested years in becoming a thoracic surgeon? If surgery is required, I would choose to let the experienced surgeon haul my butt out of the fire, and concentrate my energy in my field of interest. Sorry if I confused you on that point. RAID systems in the hands of people who assume magic will happen cause massive down-time problems. In the hands of people who know how to do it, yes, good things really can happen. But I doubt there are any truly mindless RAID options available. Now I'm confused... are you suggesting that the investment required to successfully use an ACS-7500 even approaches that required for the do-it-yourself RAID setup? V/r, Jay
Re: RAID for dummies
On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 09:50:29PM -0700, the unit calling itself Raymond Lillard wrote: I want to set up an OBSD box as a file server for some Windoze boxes. I think a RAID 1 setup will provide sufficient reliability - and it appears to be the cheapest way to go. I don't desire to become an expert on RAID, I don't want to spend a lot of money, and I'm confused by what I've read on the subject. Here's how I'd like it to work: One of the disks craps out... an alarm goes off... I walk in with a new drive, and replace the failed one (hot-swap?)... beeping stops... no data is lost, system heals itself by taking care of the new drive... years pass, and life is good. Is this feasible - can I remain ignorant of the RAID details and jargon, and still benefit from it? Ignorance often leads to a very expensive education. I agree - it also leads to off-point drivel Are you certain that archival backups are not necessary? Certain!? Would you care to point out where I stated or even implied that backups weren't necessary?
Re: RAID for dummies
On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 07:11:03AM -0400, the unit calling itself Nick Holland wrote: There's only one RAID system that I think is anything close to as simple as you desire: ... Accusys ACS-7500 or its competitors. No equity position in any of them. And yes, that's it. :) I'll admit to a lot of sweat equity in the Accusys ACS7500. I love the things -- the simplicity, the fact that they usually just work, etc. Actually, there seem to be three (3) similar offerings: Accusys (http://www.accusys.com.tw/, or http://www.accusysusa.com/index.htm) Accordance (http://www.accordancesystems.com/) ArcoIDE (http://www.arcoide.com/) They all seem to have pretty uninformative or confusing info on their websites, and they all appear to be hard to find (in that retailers are few and far between). It's encouraging to hear that you've had a positive experience with the Accusys hardware. Anyway...you HAVE to spend time getting to know whatever RAID solution you are using. Practice, practice, practice!!! Try swapping drives -- what happens if you swap a drive with a larger drive? smaller drive? how does it indicate errors? etc... In short: never trust anyone else to haul your butt out of the fire. Not quite sure what point you're trying to make here... are you advocating that one develop expertise in all areas to become totally self-sufficient? If so, I suppose you are all at once: thoracic surgeon, firefighter, psychiatrist, tax lawyer, microbiologist, etc, etc, etc. Jay
Re: Motherboard Recommendation
On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 11:09:41PM +0100, the unit calling itself Simon Morgan wrote: Hi, I'm interested in building a machine for use as an OpenBSD workstation and would appreciate any recommendations on AMD64 motherboards that are well supported. I assume there are people on this list using OpenBSD as their primary OS and would be interested to hear what you're using. I've had good luck with Tyan. This would be a damned sight easier if manufacturers didn't insist on including everything but the kitchen sink on-board and failing to document which chipsets they're using. Can you even buy desktop motherboards that don't come with on-board sound and network these days? Any advice is appreciated. Certainly without sound, and I'm sure there are a few w/o networking... but they tend to be the low-end products that don't offer good value. I think the reason for higher integration is that it makes the board more versatile (I may want to put this in a 1U enclosure don't want to or can't add PCI cards, risers, etc). All of these peripheral features can be disabled via jumpers if you prefer to use your own brand via PCI card. Jay
Re: Anyone tried this hardware raid solution?
On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 08:24:11PM -0400, the unit calling itself Jean-Daniel Beaubien wrote: Hi everyone, I am wondering if anyone tried this (http://www.allmediait.com/html/araid.html) hardware raid solution. It seems to only support PATA. Anyways I was just wondering if anyone had any experiences with this box. Anyone ever compared it to an Accusys 7500? On a side note, anyone knows hardware raid solution similar to this or to Accusys's 7500 solution but SATA? These allmediait guys look like resellers for Accordance hardware: http://www.accordancesystems.com/ The other designer/manufacturer I've found is: http://www.arcoide.com/ It appears they both offer SATA options. Accusys claims they offer SATA-to-SATA (ACS-75170, -76130 -76510), but their webpage is so lame that it's hard to tell (http://www.accusys.com.tw/prod.htm). It appears that Accusys has the lowest priced solution in their ACS 7500. It strikes me that all three of these guys make good looking hardware that oughta be a hit, but it's almost impossible to find a retailer for any of them (e.g. look for any of this stuff on pricegrabber.) Jay
RAID for dummies
I want to set up an OBSD box as a file server for some Windoze boxes. I think a RAID 1 setup will provide sufficient reliability - and it appears to be the cheapest way to go. I don't desire to become an expert on RAID, I don't want to spend a lot of money, and I'm confused by what I've read on the subject. Here's how I'd like it to work: One of the disks craps out... an alarm goes off... I walk in with a new drive, and replace the failed one (hot-swap?)... beeping stops... no data is lost, system heals itself by taking care of the new drive... years pass, and life is good. Is this feasible - can I remain ignorant of the RAID details and jargon, and still benefit from it? Thanks, Jay
Request for additions to spamdb
I've learned the hard way that this doesn't achieve the desired result: # spamdb -Ta [EMAIL PROTECTED] it should be: # spamdb -Ta [EMAIL PROTECTED] Addition of a short EXAMPLES section to man spamdb could really help. And, in IMHO, the key argument could also use a brief explanation. Other worthwhile features for spamdb itself might be: 1) ability to add WHITE entries *with* an expiration time; e.g. spamdb -a 192.168.0.5|20 2) ability to selectively list the contents of spamdb; e.g. spamdb -Tl lists all SPAMTRAP entries spamdb -tl lists all TRAPPED entries V/r, Jay
clamav 0.87 build error on 3.7
I get the following errors when trying to make clamav v0.87 from the -stable ports tree: server-th.o(.text+0x98a): In function `acceptloop_th': : undefined reference to `cl_dup' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/security/clamav/w-clamav-0.87/clamav-0.87/clamd (line 322 of Makefile). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/security/clamav/w-clamav-0.87/clamav-0.87 (line 368 of Makefile). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/security/clamav/w-clamav-0.87/clamav-0.87 (line 227 of Makefile). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/security/clamav (line 1769 of /usr/ports/infrastructure/mk/bsd.port.mk). How to fix? Thnx, Jay
Re: clamav 0.87 build error on 3.7
On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 11:52:40AM -0500, the unit calling itself C. Bensend wrote: I get the following errors when trying to make clamav v0.87 from the -stable ports tree: You sure you're using -STABLE? I mean, are you absolutely sure that your source tree is what you _think_ it is? I built 0.87 on 3.7-STABLE just last night, flawlessly. I don't think your checkout is what you think it is. Good thought - here's what I've got... any ideas? Here's how I've updated my ports tree: # setenv CVSROOT [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs # cd /usr/ports # cvs -d $CVSROOT -q up -rOPENBSD_3_7 -Pd Here's how I've updated my source tree: # setenv CVSROOT [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs # cd /usr/src # cvs -d $CVSROOT -q up -rOPENBSD_3_7 -Pd I verified I've got a 3.7 ports tree by: # cd /usr/ports/CVS # cat Tag TOPENBSD_3_7 in the source tree: # cd /usr/src/CVS # cat Tag TOPENBSD_3_7 in clamav: # cd /usr/ports/security/clamav/CVS # cat Tag TOPENBSD_3_7 in /usr/ports/security/clamav/Makefile: # cat Makefile # $OpenBSD: Makefile,v 1.3.2.3 2005/09/28 17:37:57 sturm Exp $ COMMENT=free virus scanner DISTNAME= clamav-0.87 ... When I build clamav: # cd /usr/ports/security/clamav # make === Building for clamav-0.87 make all-recursive Making all in libclamav Making all in clamscan Making all in clamd /bin/sh ../libtool --mode=link cc -O2 -pipe -L/usr/lib -L/usr/local/lib -o clamd output.o cfgparser.o getopt.o memory.o misc.o options.o clamd.o tcpserver.o localserver.o session.o thrmgr.o server-th.o scanner.o others.o clamuko.o dazukoio_compat12.o dazukoio.o ../libclamav/libclamav.la -pthread -pthread cc -O2 -pipe -o .libs/clamd output.o cfgparser.o getopt.o memory.o misc.o options.o clamd.o tcpserver.o localserver.o session.o thrmgr.o server-th.o scanner.o others.o clamuko.o dazukoio_compat12.o dazukoio.o -pthread -pthread -L/usr/lib -L/usr/local/lib -L../libclamav/.libs -lclamav -lbz2 -lgmp -lcurl -lssl -lcrypto -lz -Wl,-rpath,/usr/local/lib misc.o(.text+0xcb): In function `freshdbdir': : warning: sprintf() is often misused, please use snprintf() /usr/local/lib/libgmp.so.6.3: warning: vsprintf() is often misused, please use vsnprintf() server-th.o(.text+0x98a): In function `acceptloop_th': : undefined reference to `cl_dup' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/security/clamav/w-clamav-0.87/clamav-0.87/clamd (line 322 of Makefile). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/security/clamav/w-clamav-0.87/clamav-0.87 (line 368 of Makefile). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/security/clamav/w-clamav-0.87/clamav-0.87 (line 227 of Makefile). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/security/clamav (line 1769 of /usr/ports/infrastructure/mk/bsd.port.mk).
Re: clamav 0.87 build error on 3.7
On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 06:28:53PM -0400, the unit calling itself MH wrote: I get the following errors when trying to make clamav v0.87 from the -stable ports tree: server-th.o(.text+0x98a): In function `acceptloop_th': : undefined reference to `cl_dup' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status *** Error code 1 SNIP, SNIP How to fix? It sounds like you have an older version of clamav already installed. Your linker is bonking when its searching the older clamlibs looking for cl_dup. Fix: cd to /usr/local/lib and move your current clamav libs (libclamav.*) to a location not in your linker path. Then recompile. Thanks, Mike... that did it! I would have thought the Makefile would have taken care of this; i.e. deleted (or mv'd) the clamav libs... was I expecting too much, or is something missing from the port? Thanks Again, Jay
Re: clamav 0.87 build error on 3.7
On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 09:08:02PM -0500, the unit calling itself C. Bensend wrote: I would have thought the Makefile would have taken care of this; i.e. deleted (or mv'd) the clamav libs... was I expecting too much, or is something missing from the port? I would recommend pkg_delete'ing the prior version, and then installing the new one. That's what I do, and I don't end up with weird problems like this one. Keep the old one around in case you have to roll back, of course. ;) Yeah - I would've expected problems at the 'make install' step, but thought 'make' would've gone OK?? Jay
Re: Ports question
On Fri, Sep 30, 2005 at 03:12:33AM +0100, the unit calling itself Stuart Henderson wrote: --On 29 September 2005 20:36 -0500, J Moore wrote: Can someone tell me if and when the clamav in the -stable tree is going to have the security flaw patched? On Wednesday just gone. http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/ports/security/clamav/Makefile I get the following errors when trying to make clamav v0.87 from the -stable ports tree: server-th.o(.text+0x98a): In function `acceptloop_th': : undefined reference to `cl_dup' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/security/clamav/w-clamav-0.87/clamav-0.87/clamd (line 322 of Makefile). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/security/clamav/w-clamav-0.87/clamav-0.87 (line 368 of Makefile). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/security/clamav/w-clamav-0.87/clamav-0.87 (line 227 of Makefile). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/security/clamav (line 1769 of /usr/ports/infrastructure/mk/bsd.port.mk).
Ports question
I know ports questions are not supposed to be posted to misc@, but I've been unable to get a response there, so ... I run 3.7 -stable. A significant security issue with clamav was announced a week or so ago. I checked, and found no patch was available, so I posted to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The maintainer responded, and told me that he was responsible only for -current; someone else was responsible for -stable. He was kind enough to offer to handle this for me if I was willing to pay him, but I run my systems on a hobby basis. Anyway - I have found clamav to be useful, and would like to continue to use it if it's going to be maintained. Can someone tell me if and when the clamav in the -stable tree is going to have the security flaw patched? Thanks, Jay
Re: named log files
On Mon, Sep 26, 2005 at 02:29:00AM +0200, the unit calling itself viq wrote: On Sunday 25 of September 2005 17:08, J Moore wrote: On Sat, Sep 24, 2005 at 09:59:12PM -0700, the unit calling itself Bryan Irvine wrote: cut # ls -l /var/named total 5 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Sep 24 23:02 dev drwxr-x--- 2 root named 512 Mar 20 2005 etc drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Mar 29 2004 master -rw-r--r-- 1 root named0 Sep 24 23:26 named_query.log -rw-r--r-- 1 root named0 Sep 24 23:26 named_query.log.0 ^ shouldn't group have write permissions for this to work? drwxrwxr-x 2 root named 512 Mar 29 2004 slave drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Mar 29 2004 standard Yes - that seemed to do the trick: chmod 660 named_query.log I guess this was caused by new privilege separation features added to 3.7, eh? Thnx, Jay
Re: named log files
On Sat, Sep 24, 2005 at 09:59:12PM -0700, the unit calling itself Bryan Irvine
wrote:
named[1028]: unable to rename log file 'named_query.log' to
'named_query.log.0': permission denied
The logfiles are in /var/named... do I need to chgrp on this directory?
Yes, typical Unix stuff. Check r/w and uid/gid permissions.
Hmmm... I chgrp'd the logfiles (/var/named/named_query.log) to
named, but it is still busted... I don't get error messages on the
console any longer, but nothing is being recorded in the log files.
I think I used a recipe for setting up the caching name server on this
box. I thought it was on the OpenBSD website, but I cannot find it now.
Here's how I'm set up. Any comments would be appreciated:
In /etc/rc.conf.local:
named_flags=
In /etc/resolv.conf:
nameserver 127.0.0.1
lookup file bind
nameserver 207.203.159.252
# ls -l /var/named
total 5
drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Sep 24 23:02 dev
drwxr-x--- 2 root named 512 Mar 20 2005 etc
drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Mar 29 2004 master
-rw-r--r-- 1 root named0 Sep 24 23:26 named_query.log
-rw-r--r-- 1 root named0 Sep 24 23:26 named_query.log.0
drwxrwxr-x 2 root named 512 Mar 29 2004 slave
drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Mar 29 2004 standard
In /var/named/etc/named.conf:
// $OpenBSD: named-simple.conf,v 1.5 2003/09/22 20:44:32 jakob Exp $
//
// Example file for a simple named configuration, processing both
// recursive and authoritative queries using one cache.
// Update this list to include only the networks for which you want
// to execute recursive queries. The default setting allows all hosts
// on any IPv4 networks for which the system has an interface, and
// the IPv6 localhost address.
//
acl clients {
localnets;
::1;
};
options {
forward only;
forwarders { 207.203.159.252; 205.152.0.5; };
version ; // remove this to allow version queries
listen-on{ any; };
listen-on-v6 { any; };
allow-recursion { clients; };
};
logging {
channel query_info {
file named_query.log versions 3 size 10m;
severity debug;
print-category yes;
print-time yes;
};
category queries { query_info; };
category resolver { query_info; };
// category lame-servers { null; };
};
// Standard zones
//
zone . {
type hint;
file standard/root.hint;
};
zone localhost {
type master;
file standard/localhost;
allow-transfer { localhost; };
};
zone 127.in-addr.arpa {
type master;
file standard/loopback;
allow-transfer { localhost; };
};
zone
0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.ip6.arpa
{
type master;
file standard/loopback6.arpa;
allow-transfer { localhost; };
};
zone
0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.ip6.int
{
type master;
file standard/loopback6.int;
allow-transfer { localhost; };
};
zone com {
type delegation-only;
};
zone net {
type delegation-only;
};
// Master zones
//
//zone myzone.net {
// type master;
// file master/myzone.net;
//};
// Slave zones
//
//zone otherzone.net {
// type slave;
// file slave/otherzone.net;
// masters { 192.0.2.1; [...;] };
//};
CD-less upgrade question
I've got some time this weekend, and would like to upgrade my 3.6 box to 3.7. I checked the upgrade instructions, but they are a bit vague (deliberately?) wrt upgrading without cds. I seem to recall that upgrading via bsd.rd was pretty straightforward... does this still work provided the other upgrade instructions on the website are followed? Thnx, Jay
Re: Problems with CPU/ARCH specific compilation!?
On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 12:53:30PM +0200, the unit calling itself Dunceor . wrote: The OpenBSD developers develop the OS for their needs, not everybody else's needs. You know, I've heard that for years... I'd like to know if that's the project's official position. Curious, Jay
