Re: Supporting OpenBSD
@ Radoslav Mirza I should have read your mail thread before writing the OpenBSD Traning Docs / How Tos If you are on for some doc work im happy to work with you on it Thanks Tom
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On August 2, 2017 10:03:13 AM GMT+02:00, Mike Burns wrote: >On 2017-08-02 13.21.44 +0930, Radoslav Mirza wrote: >> Are there any resources that point to where I can begin to help with >> the project? > >- Use OpenBSD to get your work done. When something breaks, fix it and > send in a patch. When something is sub par, improve it and send in > that patch. This. And the rest. But, really. This. /Alexander >- Join #openbsd-daily on irc.freenode.net to get a walkthrough of how > code is written for the project. >- Follow tech@. When someone sends a patch asking for an OK, try > applying it to make sure it works as intended. >- Follow bugs@. >- Donate hardware: https://www.openbsd.org/want.html >- Donate money: https://www.openbsd.org/donations.html
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
Hi Radoslav, Radoslav Mirza wrote on Wed, Aug 02, 2017 at 01:21:44PM +0930: > Are there any resources that point to where I can begin to help > with the project? We don't maintain any global TODO lists, it's too little benefit for too much work. > Such as junior jobs, documentation etc. The quality of OpenBSD documentation implies that finding bugs in documentation is not much easier than finding bugs in code. We do not consider documentation a junior job, but something to be done together with the code, by the developers who write the code. I am aware of a number of documentation tasks, but all of them are seriously difficult: For example, improving event(3), improving sysctl(3), documenting undocumented functions in LibreSSL, cleaning up LibreSSL manual pages in general, and figuring out how to fix OpenGL documentation. That said, there happens to be a TODO list for documentation tools, as opposed to documentation tasks: http://mandoc.bsd.lv/cgi-bin/cvsweb/TODO?rev=HEAD Most entries on that list are of high difficulty, but a few are easy. The most important qualification round here is the ability to find out what you are interested in, what you are capable of, to identify tasks *yourself* that you want to spend time on and are capable of making progress with. Nobody can tell you what that is. Very many different areas could benefit from work. And after that, the next most important qualification is being able to learn from doing, from reading code, from listening to advice, and from following ongoing discussions (in about that order). > plan to head down the networking path Fine, so watch your own networking needs (or the networking needs that come up in the context of your research & studies), use OpenBSD for them, identify bug or feature gaps, try to fix them, send patches if you succeed, or ask *specific* questions for advice if you get stuck on a problem and can't make progress. In particular at first, avoid spending long times (more than a few days) on a problem before talking to somebody about the (even preliminary) results, because spending weeks, then finding out that the basic approach was misguided, is frustrating. Yours, Ingo
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On 2017-08-02 13.21.44 +0930, Radoslav Mirza wrote: > Are there any resources that point to where I can begin to help with > the project? - Use OpenBSD to get your work done. When something breaks, fix it and send in a patch. When something is sub par, improve it and send in that patch. - Join #openbsd-daily on irc.freenode.net to get a walkthrough of how code is written for the project. - Follow tech@. When someone sends a patch asking for an OK, try applying it to make sure it works as intended. - Follow bugs@. - Donate hardware: https://www.openbsd.org/want.html - Donate money: https://www.openbsd.org/donations.html
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
Janne Johansson [...@it.su.se] wrote: > > I move money from my account into paypal, with the intention of those > money may disappear from the face of the earth, then make PP donations > using those. No ties to any account or CC for me, so I dont risk > anything except what I give to PP in the first place. That's funny that you trust PayPal to wire money from your account, but not with your credit card number, considering that banks often give you a very short period of time (24 hours?) to contest electronic bank transfers, but 90+ days to contest credit card transfers. -- The past cannot be changed. The future cannot be guaranteed.
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
I have been using OpenBSD for the past five years and have been fortunate enough to have friends who have given me CDs as gifts so I never had to buy one. I also think that OpenBSD is the most exciting open source project, with brilliant developers and outstanding track record for quality. Thanks to all who make it happen. Thanks Nick for reminding us that this great project does not run on thin air and for prompting me to setup a $15/month PP donation. cheers, nayden
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009, Aaron Mason wrote: > Perhaps you could make a donation and download the files? You get > what you desire and you support the project. It wouldn't be as > complete as the CDs, but you still get to contribute without paying > huge taxes. Yes, that's the point. Teers, -- Daniel Bolgheroni FEI - Faculdade de Engenharia Industrial http://www.dbolgheroni.eng.br/mykey ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X / \
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
* n...@holland-consulting.net [090915 08:51]: > * Nick Holland [090915 07:57]: > > Don't get me wrong, pure cash donations work nicely to keep the lights on. > > Well...briefly. Based on some numbers Theo showed me after my earlier note, > > cash donations from the US and Europe are..uhmm... how do I put > > this...PATHETIC! > > We are talking the equiv. of less than 10 CDs each. Canadians are doing a > > lot > > better, relatively speaking, but as of Sept 8 (BEFORE I posted my note) all > > cash > > donations barely put a dent in the cost of a mini-hackathon. > > Less than 10 CDs... and 3 of them are from me. Truly sad. > > jim > The previous message was not from Nick! It was from me and intended for Nick. I simply overwrote the wrong address field. Sorry for the noise. jim
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
* Nick Holland [090915 07:57]: > Don't get me wrong, pure cash donations work nicely to keep the lights on. > Well...briefly. Based on some numbers Theo showed me after my earlier note, > cash donations from the US and Europe are..uhmm... how do I put > this...PATHETIC! > We are talking the equiv. of less than 10 CDs each. Canadians are doing a lot > better, relatively speaking, but as of Sept 8 (BEFORE I posted my note) all > cash > donations barely put a dent in the cost of a mini-hackathon. Less than 10 CDs... and 3 of them are from me. Truly sad. jim
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
2009/9/15 Nick Holland : > Jeffrey 'jf' Lim wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Daniel Bolgheroni wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 8 Sep 2009, Nick Holland wrote: >>> >>> > Thanks to those that contribute money and buy CDs. >>> >>> I would like to buy CDs, but in Brazil these kind of products have a >>> high tax fee applied when they hit the harbour. For a $50 CD, I'll >>> probably pay almost $almost $70 to someone I don't want to "contribute". >>> This doesn't include the shipment cost (~$30 I suspect). >>> >>> I don't have a Paypal account (yet). If it's worth to trust him, I don't >>> know, but I much prefer to donate $50 (although they will deduct 3.9% in >>> my case, but at least OpenBSD doesn't have the CD cost) than to pay >>> almost the triple to government, shipment, etc. Don't care if I don't >>> get the CDs. >>> >>> Is it possible to OpenBSD to make profit for the project selling books >>> or manuals? I don't know the costs or if it's worth (like CDs are better >>> for the project than T-shirts, mugs, etc.). It's tax free here, and I >>> think: if it's free here, maybe it's somewhere else. > > Books and manuals are more like t-shirts and mugs than CDs -- relatively > high cost, relatively bulky, more variety to inventory. B They also have > an added problem of being in a competitive market -- if you want an OpenBSD > t-shirt, you will be buying it from OpenBSD. B If you want a book that covers > OpenBSD, you can buy it from OpenBSD, or you can buy it at the corner book > store and have it tonight, or at BigOnlineBookStore for a substantial > discount off list price and special deals with the shipping companies. > I'm not sure what the margin on books is, but if you try to price against > BigOnlineBookStore.com, I suspect your margin goes pretty close to zero. > >> I have the same concerns as well (i mean the shipping. F, i'll support the >> project - but not the shipping?). I did get the disc set, though, but.. it >> would be nice to be able to "check out" knowing how much i'm supposed to be >> paying for shipping. > > Don't get me wrong, pure cash donations work nicely to keep the lights on. > Well...briefly. B Based on some numbers Theo showed me after my earlier note, > cash donations from the US and Europe are..uhmm... how do I put this...PATHETIC! > We are talking the equiv. of less than 10 CDs each. B Canadians are doing a lot > better, relatively speaking, but as of Sept 8 (BEFORE I posted my note) all cash > donations barely put a dent in the cost of a mini-hackathon. > > Theo tells me you guys have responded to my note, and thanks to those that did! > but there's still a lot of financial slacking goin' on... > > Nick. > > One cd set from Italy! :) -- Matteo Filippetto
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
Jeffrey 'jf' Lim wrote: > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Daniel Bolgheroni > wrote: > >> On Tue, 8 Sep 2009, Nick Holland wrote: >> >> > Thanks to those that contribute money and buy CDs. >> >> I would like to buy CDs, but in Brazil these kind of products have a >> high tax fee applied when they hit the harbour. For a $50 CD, I'll >> probably pay almost $almost $70 to someone I don't want to "contribute". >> This doesn't include the shipment cost (~$30 I suspect). >> >> I don't have a Paypal account (yet). If it's worth to trust him, I don't >> know, but I much prefer to donate $50 (although they will deduct 3.9% in >> my case, but at least OpenBSD doesn't have the CD cost) than to pay >> almost the triple to government, shipment, etc. Don't care if I don't >> get the CDs. >> >> Is it possible to OpenBSD to make profit for the project selling books >> or manuals? I don't know the costs or if it's worth (like CDs are better >> for the project than T-shirts, mugs, etc.). It's tax free here, and I >> think: if it's free here, maybe it's somewhere else. Books and manuals are more like t-shirts and mugs than CDs -- relatively high cost, relatively bulky, more variety to inventory. They also have an added problem of being in a competitive market -- if you want an OpenBSD t-shirt, you will be buying it from OpenBSD. If you want a book that covers OpenBSD, you can buy it from OpenBSD, or you can buy it at the corner book store and have it tonight, or at BigOnlineBookStore for a substantial discount off list price and special deals with the shipping companies. I'm not sure what the margin on books is, but if you try to price against BigOnlineBookStore.com, I suspect your margin goes pretty close to zero. > I have the same concerns as well (i mean the shipping. F, i'll support the > project - but not the shipping?). I did get the disc set, though, but.. it > would be nice to be able to "check out" knowing how much i'm supposed to be > paying for shipping. Don't get me wrong, pure cash donations work nicely to keep the lights on. Well...briefly. Based on some numbers Theo showed me after my earlier note, cash donations from the US and Europe are..uhmm... how do I put this...PATHETIC! We are talking the equiv. of less than 10 CDs each. Canadians are doing a lot better, relatively speaking, but as of Sept 8 (BEFORE I posted my note) all cash donations barely put a dent in the cost of a mini-hackathon. Theo tells me you guys have responded to my note, and thanks to those that did! but there's still a lot of financial slacking goin' on... Nick.
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Daniel Bolgheroni wrote: >> Thanks to those that contribute money and buy CDs. > > I would like to buy CDs, but in Brazil these kind of products have a > high tax fee applied when they hit the harbour. For a $50 CD, I'll > probably pay almost $almost $70 to someone I don't want to "contribute". > This doesn't include the shipment cost (~$30 I suspect). Far be it from me to tell other people how to spend their money (usually), but someone who wanted the giving effectiveness of a CD purchase without paying hideous taxes or shipping could locate a non-profit where low taxes and shipping would apply, and buy it for them. This assumes that the purchaser could spare the actual physical product. -- Ed Ahlsen-Girard Ft. Walton Beach FL
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Daniel Bolgheroni wrote: > On Tue, 8 Sep 2009, Nick Holland wrote: > > > Thanks to those that contribute money and buy CDs. > > I would like to buy CDs, but in Brazil these kind of products have a > high tax fee applied when they hit the harbour. For a $50 CD, I'll > probably pay almost $almost $70 to someone I don't want to "contribute". > This doesn't include the shipment cost (~$30 I suspect). > > I don't have a Paypal account (yet). If it's worth to trust him, I don't > know, but I much prefer to donate $50 (although they will deduct 3.9% in > my case, but at least OpenBSD doesn't have the CD cost) than to pay > almost the triple to government, shipment, etc. Don't care if I don't > get the CDs. > > Is it possible to OpenBSD to make profit for the project selling books > or manuals? I don't know the costs or if it's worth (like CDs are better > for the project than T-shirts, mugs, etc.). It's tax free here, and I > think: if it's free here, maybe it's somewhere else. > > I have the same concerns as well (i mean the shipping. F, i'll support the project - but not the shipping?). I did get the disc set, though, but.. it would be nice to be able to "check out" knowing how much i'm supposed to be paying for shipping. -jf -- In the meantime, here is your PSA: "It's so hard to write a graphics driver that open-sourcing it would not help." -- Andrew Fear, Software Product Manager, NVIDIA Corporation http://kerneltrap.org/node/7228
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Daniel Bolgheroni wrote: > On Tue, 8 Sep 2009, Nick Holland wrote: > >> Thanks to those that contribute money and buy CDs. > > I would like to buy CDs, but in Brazil these kind of products have a > high tax fee applied when they hit the harbour. For a $50 CD, I'll > probably pay almost $almost $70 to someone I don't want to "contribute". > This doesn't include the shipment cost (~$30 I suspect). > > I don't have a Paypal account (yet). If it's worth to trust him, I don't > know, but I much prefer to donate $50 (although they will deduct 3.9% in > my case, but at least OpenBSD doesn't have the CD cost) than to pay > almost the triple to government, shipment, etc. Don't care if I don't > get the CDs. > > Is it possible to OpenBSD to make profit for the project selling books > or manuals? I don't know the costs or if it's worth (like CDs are better > for the project than T-shirts, mugs, etc.). It's tax free here, and I > think: if it's free here, maybe it's somewhere else. > > Teers, > > -- > Daniel Bolgheroni > FEI - Faculdade de Engenharia Industrial > http://www.dbolgheroni.eng.br/mykey > > ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) > against HTML e-mail X > / \ > > Perhaps you could make a donation and download the files? You get what you desire and you support the project. It wouldn't be as complete as the CDs, but you still get to contribute without paying huge taxes. I'm assuming your download rates/limits are reasonable, of course. -- Aaron Mason - Programmer, open source addict - Oh, why does everything I whip leave me?
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 02:41:54PM +0200, Andri wrote: > On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 12:04:54PM +0200, Iqigo Ortiz de Urbina wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Jordi Espasa Clofent < > > +2 from Euskadi and Catalunya, Spain, so to speak :) > > > +3 from East Frisia! > +1 from the Southern Pampas, Rio Grande Do Sul, Brazil. -- Christiano Farina HAESBAERT Do NOT send me html mail.
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009, Nick Holland wrote: > Thanks to those that contribute money and buy CDs. I would like to buy CDs, but in Brazil these kind of products have a high tax fee applied when they hit the harbour. For a $50 CD, I'll probably pay almost $almost $70 to someone I don't want to "contribute". This doesn't include the shipment cost (~$30 I suspect). I don't have a Paypal account (yet). If it's worth to trust him, I don't know, but I much prefer to donate $50 (although they will deduct 3.9% in my case, but at least OpenBSD doesn't have the CD cost) than to pay almost the triple to government, shipment, etc. Don't care if I don't get the CDs. Is it possible to OpenBSD to make profit for the project selling books or manuals? I don't know the costs or if it's worth (like CDs are better for the project than T-shirts, mugs, etc.). It's tax free here, and I think: if it's free here, maybe it's somewhere else. Teers, -- Daniel Bolgheroni FEI - Faculdade de Engenharia Industrial http://www.dbolgheroni.eng.br/mykey ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X / \
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 05:33 -0500, "Chris Bennett" wrote: > Aaron Mason wrote: > > I'd be happy to preorder a CD, I just need to have the money to pay > > for one, and I'm behind on bills... > > > I'm in the same boat. This year has been brutally tough for my business. > I simply cannot afford a CD. > > However, I simply cannot do without OpenBSD. > > So I will mention that other useful page: > > http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html > > They now accept direct donations in a variety of ways. > > I just signed up for a $5 USD a month subscription using PayPal. > > I suggest that anyone seeing hard times consider donating a small amount. > After PayPal fees, a hundred $1 donations is still around $72 extra for > OpenBSD. > > Anyone who has counted change to buy food knows that even a few extra > bucks can make your day a whole lot better! This is wonderful and I am sure direct donations are much appreciated, but Buy the CD's people. The best way to support the project is to support Theo. Nothing supports Theo more than CD sales. The surest way to maximize the money that actually goes to OpenBSD is to buy the CD's. Instead of a monthly donation you could put aside $10 a month in a savings account and buy the CD set twice a year. No PayPal. No credit card. Just your bank account. If you *really* want to help OBSD buy the CD's. (plus you get all the neat stickers)
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
Seconded, and order placed. - James On Sep 9, 2009, at 14:02, Gerald Chudyk wrote: On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Nick Holland> wrote: People, it is time to get your browsers over to B http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html and start running some money into the project. Apologies for procrastination and thanks for the timely reminder. Order placed. Gerald.
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Nick Holland wrote: > > People, it is time to get your browsers over to > B http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html > and start running some money into the project. > Apologies for procrastination and thanks for the timely reminder. Order placed. Gerald.
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
Hi Nick, Great post! Rod Whitworth wrote: Good pitch, Nick. I'd love to see it on a wider screen somewhere. As to have this on a bigger screen! It has! (;> April 21, 2009 at Apple Store in Tysons Virginia! For the Apple Night School event. All night long from 5PM to ~10PM or so on it's own table and also bigger screen too. The idea is what kids are doing with their computers and all as well as what they do with their MAC computers. Well, this is not news to some on this list here, but my son did promote OpenBSD as well as I in a big way and a unique way too. You can check the following pictures below if you want proof. 9 of them all around 3.5 to 4Mb sorry about that. Specially you can notice the last 4 pictures and the last one with the big screen on it. That's in the Apple store for presentations. Puffy did show up that night big time and a few Genius sure asked a few very interesting questions about the setup and all to witch my son provided all the answers they wanted. Only one said that the warranty was not valid on the MAC laptop anymore as it was temper with for dual boot and all to witch my son proudly answer that's it's been like that for a very long time and to make the Genius happy also said something in the lines of "That's no problem is it? If Apple makes good hardware, I don't really need that Apple Care and all to run great software on it do I? Are you saying that Apple do not make good hardware and I should pick a different company then?" To witch the Genius didn't have any answer and left it alone and the other Genius got a good smile out of. (;> Anyway, my son is a freak of Lego's and OpenBSD and that night show up how to use BlockSmith on him workstation in dualboot and how to use OpenBSD to secure his MAC right there in the Apple store on bigger screen then his laptop! (;> He even did a Lego figure of one of the Genius right there in BlockSmith witch I can tell you got him the hart of the various Genius there in the store too. (;> I guess I call that Puffy PR!,(;> http://openbsdsupport.org/apple-night/OpenBSD-1.jpg http://openbsdsupport.org/apple-night/OpenBSD-2.jpg http://openbsdsupport.org/apple-night/OpenBSD-3.jpg http://openbsdsupport.org/apple-night/OpenBSD-4.jpg http://openbsdsupport.org/apple-night/OpenBSD-5.jpg http://openbsdsupport.org/apple-night/OpenBSD-6.jpg http://openbsdsupport.org/apple-night/OpenBSD-7.jpg http://openbsdsupport.org/apple-night/OpenBSD-8.jpg http://openbsdsupport.org/apple-night/OpenBSD-9.jpg He got many questions and really got the curiosity of the people in the store that night going for sure. Did anyone got home and got a CD after that, obviously I can't say. I would like to believe that may be some did! But, did Puffy got visibility in the more obvious and may be hot places, I guess so. (;> Sometime you will never know where Puffy will show up and how big the screen he might end up on. (;> And you can notice the different OpenBSD T-Shirt's there as well including the Apple one around the neck oppose to hide the Puffy one. Even to the question of "Well, it might be difficult to install this OS then?" by some of the visitors and Genius. Believe it or not, the answer came from my youngest son that was there too in the wireframe Puffy T-Shirt and that you can see there. He explain how to do it and also explain that he did many servers install as well in my business replacing hard drive and all. Even a demo install in 5 minutes was possible to do. (;> If not even a Teenager can do it in public, then I guess a Genius should be able to right? Sure got the attention of many there and really show that installing OpenBSD is even much faster then Mac OS X. OK, not all the X was install, but you get the picture. Visitor sure did! (;> So, talk about big screen, well you got one. OK it's far from Australia I know, but never the less, you can fell the vibe now can you? (;> Best, Daniel
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
2009/9/9 Stefan Wollny : > > At least for German donors it is quite easy via a direct bank transfer as Theo > has a German bank account. > http://www.openbsd.org/bank-donation.html > > Just set up a monthly subscription of 10. That isn't just useful for Germans. If you're *pretty much anywhere in Europe*, talk to your bank about SEPA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area Most Europeans already can make a BIC/IBAN transaction to Theo's account for no extra fee (beyond what you ordinarily pay for a local/national transaction, which may be 0). At least by 2011 at the latest, you will be able to set up EU-wide direct debits, and by then you *should* also be able to set up EU-wide standing orders. Maybe you already can. Ask your bank. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_order_(banking) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_debit Direct debits may not work in this case, since --AFAIK-- Theo is not an organization that's been vetted by his bank. EU-wide standing orders will work, again for no extra fee, as soon as they become available. If your bank *doesn't* offer standing orders, push and prod them a bit and tell them they really, really should offer standing orders as well as direct debits. [1] It's what Eurosystem [2] expects [3], and all the cool kids are doing it. [4] [1] For this to work, it helps if you actually have money (unlike *cough* some of us). [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurosystem [3] http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/eurosystemsepaexpectationsform200903en.pdf [4] http://tinyurl.com/lpm53r (4.5MB PDF)
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Wed, 9 Sep 2009, HSL GmbH - Lukas Ratajski wrote: I just signed up for a $5 USD a month subscription using PayPal. I suggest that anyone seeing hard times consider donating a small amount. After PayPal fees, a hundred $1 donations is still around $72 extra for OpenBSD. Citizen of the European Union owning a bank account there can use the German account Theo has set up, and issue a monthly standing order (that's what I did with 5 EUR/month). Though I recommend to ask the bank about any fees that may come up, since it is not always guaranteed that SEPA transactions are completely free of charge. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area#Misconceptions). This is interesting, I have to check out what my bank charges back in Europe , and maybe consider doing the same thing. For the time being I made a simple donation through CC of 50 euro. I'm a Windows switcher using OpenBSD as my (nearly) sole desktop since about a year. I think it really deserves support. Thank a lot for keeping up this great project.
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009, Nick Holland wrote: > What makes OpenBSD unique? Everyone's got their own list, but here's > mine: > Looks pretty good to me (list and following points), .. I missed the 'early order' - ours will be in shortly. Keep up the good work all! Lee == Leland V. Lammertl...@omnitec.net Chief ScientistOmnitec Corporation Network/Internet Consultants www.omnitec.net ==
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
> I just signed up for a $5 USD a month subscription using PayPal. > > I suggest that anyone seeing hard times consider donating a small > amount. > After PayPal fees, a hundred $1 donations is still around $72 extra > for > OpenBSD. Citizen of the European Union owning a bank account there can use the German account Theo has set up, and issue a monthly standing order (that's what I did with 5 EUR/month). Though I recommend to ask the bank about any fees that may come up, since it is not always guaranteed that SEPA transactions are completely free of charge. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area#Misconceptions).
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 12:04:54PM +0200, Iqigo Ortiz de Urbina wrote: > On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Jordi Espasa Clofent < > +2 from Euskadi and Catalunya, Spain, so to speak :) > +3 from East Frisia! --- Andri
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
> -Urspr|ngliche Nachricht- > Von: "Marco Peereboom" > Gesendet: 09.09.09 13:27:44 > An: Brad Tilley > CC: misc > Betreff: Re: Supporting OpenBSD > Paypal offers non-account CC processing. > > You can trust them as much as anything else Internet. > > On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 06:49:11AM -0400, Brad Tilley wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Chris Bennett > > wrote: > > > > > I just signed up for a $5 USD a month subscription using PayPal. > > At least for German donors it is quite easy via a direct bank transfer as Theo has a German bank account. http://www.openbsd.org/bank-donation.html Just set up a monthly subscription of 10. Ordered 4.6 (along with a mug) the day orders were up.
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
Brad Tilley wrote: > On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Chris Bennett > wrote: > >> I just signed up for a $5 USD a month subscription using PayPal. > > I was unaware of that. That's a nice feature. I don't have a PayPal > account (don't trust them) I move money from my account into paypal, with the intention of those money may disappear from the face of the earth, then make PP donations using those. No ties to any account or CC for me, so I dont risk anything except what I give to PP in the first place.
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
Jeffrey 'jf' Lim wrote: > On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Nick Holland > wrote: > > * Commitment to doing it right in one way, not twenty different >> ways ("pick one, maybe you get lucky"). >> > > just one question - how do we determine this "one right way"? (like there > could be a multitude of ways to do the same thing) First of all, it isn't "we" who determine the "one right way", it is the developers, and if there is a conflict, it's Theo. (and yes, internal conflicts take place, and if you think the "abuse" on the lists is vicious, you don't want to see some of the internal disputes!) it's a lot simpler than it might seem. The process varies, but usually starts by someone writing code (and man pages). If the code is good, it is improved, if it sucks but solves a problem, it may inspire someone else to write good code. "Talking about the idea" is not part of the OpenBSD development process. But often in life as in OpenBSD, the key to making a good decision is simply MAKING A DECISION, then you worry about making it the RIGHT decision. This is a problem you can see in almost any committee designed system, compromise takes place to try to keep everyone happy-ish, but no one is completely happy, and the result is usually far from ideal. "A" could work, "B" could work, "A+B" and "neither" suck. Most committees end up going for the "A+B" or "neither" option for fear of pissing off the A or B camps. Simply making a hard decision quickly and focusing all efforts behind that decision produces better results than compromises that split development efforts and drag out problems produces better results. Nick.
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
Paypal offers non-account CC processing. You can trust them as much as anything else Internet. On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 06:49:11AM -0400, Brad Tilley wrote: > On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Chris Bennett > wrote: > > > I just signed up for a $5 USD a month subscription using PayPal. > > I was unaware of that. That's a nice feature. I don't have a PayPal > account (don't trust them) but I'd like to do something similar with > my credit card. Will we be able to use a CC to make recurring monthly > contributions someday? > > Thanks, > > Brad
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Chris Bennett wrote: > I just signed up for a $5 USD a month subscription using PayPal. I was unaware of that. That's a nice feature. I don't have a PayPal account (don't trust them) but I'd like to do something similar with my credit card. Will we be able to use a CC to make recurring monthly contributions someday? Thanks, Brad
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
Chris Bennett wrote: > After PayPal fees, a hundred $1 donations is still ... It might be worthwhile to investigate additional payment services, the fees or international presence might be more favorable than PP and thus might enhance donation activity. Regards -Lars
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On 9/09/2009, at 9:14 PM, Johan M:son Lindman wrote: On Wednesday 09 September 2009 08:45:41 you wrote: I have a few questions about the stores in Australia (since we're on the topic here). (http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html#au/lsl) LSL doesn't seem to be doing pre-orders (see http://www.lsl.com.au/advanced_search_result.php? keywords=openbsd&x=0&y=0); does anybody know about the status of ESI? I cannot find any mention of OpenBSD, let alone any pre-orders on their site (http:// www.esi.com.au/). If anybody living in Australia could help out to call the store/s (I dont live there - it's just that this is the nearest store to me) and enquire, that would be great. thanks, -jf Having spoken to some OpenBSD users in Australia it appears as if your best bet is to order directly from https://https.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/order That way you can make a per-order as well. Regards Johan M:son Not quite Australia but I've ordered 3.5 onwards from the Computer Shop of Calgary and my orders have always arrived in New Zealand in good time (and well before release if I get my order in on time - pre-ordering is definitely worth it.) The CD jewel cases used to be - without fail - broken, but NO issues since 4.0 and the DVD cases. And back to Nick's original email, I'll badger a few people ... HTH.
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
Aaron Mason wrote: I'd be happy to preorder a CD, I just need to have the money to pay for one, and I'm behind on bills... I'm in the same boat. This year has been brutally tough for my business. I simply cannot afford a CD. However, I simply cannot do without OpenBSD. So I will mention that other useful page: http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html They now accept direct donations in a variety of ways. I just signed up for a $5 USD a month subscription using PayPal. I suggest that anyone seeing hard times consider donating a small amount. After PayPal fees, a hundred $1 donations is still around $72 extra for OpenBSD. Anyone who has counted change to buy food knows that even a few extra bucks can make your day a whole lot better! Chris Bennett On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Rod Whitworth wrote: Of course I try to be first to pre-order my CD setS but the orders always open when I'm asleep. I am going to keep trying, even after I achieve it! Good pitch, Nick. I'd love to see it on a wider screen somewhere. Rod/ On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 23:54:12 -0400, Nick Holland wrote: What makes OpenBSD unique? Everyone's got their own list, but here's mine: * Good work is unacceptable, great work is expected. * Quality is the #1 goal, it takes a back seat to NOTHING else. * Freedom for the users to use OpenBSD without question and without lawyers having to be involved, again without compromise. * Strong leadership. Not a "core team", or an elected committee that blows in the wind of public opinion, but one person who sets direction and policy for the project. You may not always agree with Theo, but you never wonder where he stands on an issue, or what direction the project will go. * Commitment to doing it right in one way, not twenty different ways ("pick one, maybe you get lucky"). * Refusal to accept the damned "all programs have bugs" chant as an excuse for making crap * No fear of retaining things that work, and trashing things that are broke or inferior to newer (or older!) alternatives. * The "Just Works" philosophy. But...a project like OpenBSD doesn't just run on volunteer effort, it takes real money. Hardware, infrastructure, Internet services, and if you are going to have ONE PERSON in charge, you need to keep them focused on the project, not "in their spare time", and give them the money to live in reasonable comfort. I just had a talk with Theo, and he shared some numbers with me. There's a digit missing from the current CD pre-orders from where we were hoping to be now. There's a trailing zero missing from what we'd really like to have. Long ago, while waiting for customers to hand me money, my first boss told me, "The hardest thing to do, but the most important, is to ask for the sale". I've never been very good at that, but here it is... People, it is time to get your browsers over to http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html and start running some money into the project. Do you use OpenBSD for fun? Contribute. Do you use OpenBSD for work? Contribute. Does OpenBSD allow you to worry about the problem you are trying to solve rather rather than the tools? Contribute. Do you wish your employer used the OpenBSD quality standard in your work? Contribute. Does your employer use OpenBSD? Ask them to contribute (after you do, of course). Do you bundle OpenBSD or subprojects like OpenSSH into your product? Contribute big! (you won't, you rarely do, but hey, I'll ask anyway) Do you find yourself wondering why so few take computer software quality seriously? Contribute! CDs are our favorite way to get contributions. The price is well within what the average person can easily pay for, they are a lot more educational than a month of cable TV (and maybe even more fun). Sure, the CD itself is not something everyone needs anymore, but it is about much more than the data recorded on it. It is the mark of being an active OpenBSD supporter, and it provides a nice, neat count of "this many people care". Don't get me wrong, Theo likes big cash contributions, too, but (ok, my life flashes before my eyes every time I try to put words in Theo's mouth) while a $1 donation from BIGCORP Inc., is nice, it is probably more satisfying to see two hundred $50 contributions from private people and small businesses who appreciate and put a value not only the work OpenBSD does, but the KIND of work, the "Quality and Freedom Second to NOTHING" philosophy. Don't wait and hope for a big company to speak for you, speak your thanks directly for the work and effort that goes into OpenBSD by buying a CD set. I'm going to answer a question that comes up periodically: "What about T-shirts and mugs and ...?" Well, those are profit points, too, but CDs are dirt cheap to make, they store easily, and one size fits all. T-shirts have a higher manufacturing cost, take up more space, and must be stocked in multiple sizes, all of which must be kept accessible. Certainly, buy a t-shirt, buy a mu
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Jordi Espasa Clofent < jordi.esp...@opengea.org> wrote: > People, it is time to get your browsers over to >> http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html >> and start running some money into the project. >> > > Done. > +1 > > ;) > > -- > Thanks, > Jordi Espasa Clofent > > +2 from Euskadi and Catalunya, Spain, so to speak :)
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
People, it is time to get your browsers over to http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html and start running some money into the project. Done. +1 ;) -- Thanks, Jordi Espasa Clofent
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Wednesday 09 September 2009 08:45:41 you wrote: > I have a few questions about the stores in Australia (since we're on the > topic here). (http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html#au/lsl) LSL doesn't seem > to be doing pre-orders (see > http://www.lsl.com.au/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=openbsd&x=0&y=0); > does anybody know about the status of ESI? I cannot find any mention of > OpenBSD, let alone any pre-orders on their site (http://www.esi.com.au/). > > If anybody living in Australia could help out to call the store/s (I dont > live there - it's just that this is the nearest store to me) and enquire, > that would be great. > > thanks, > -jf Having spoken to some OpenBSD users in Australia it appears as if your best bet is to order directly from https://https.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/order That way you can make a per-order as well. Regards Johan M:son
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Nick Holland wrote: > What makes OpenBSD unique? Everyone's got their own list, but here's > mine: > > * Good work is unacceptable, great work is expected. > * Quality is the #1 goal, it takes a back seat to NOTHING else. > * Freedom for the users to use OpenBSD without question and without > lawyers having to be involved, again without compromise. > * Strong leadership. Not a "core team", or an elected committee > that blows in the wind of public opinion, but one person who > sets direction and policy for the project. You may not always > agree with Theo, but you never wonder where he stands on an > issue, or what direction the project will go. > all good stuff, yeah. * Commitment to doing it right in one way, not twenty different > ways ("pick one, maybe you get lucky"). > just one question - how do we determine this "one right way"? (like there could be a multitude of ways to do the same thing) > * Refusal to accept the damned "all programs have bugs" chant as > an excuse for making crap > * No fear of retaining things that work, and trashing things > that are broke or inferior to newer (or older!) alternatives. > * The "Just Works" philosophy. > > But...a project like OpenBSD doesn't just run on volunteer effort, > it takes real money. Hardware, infrastructure, Internet services, > and if you are going to have ONE PERSON in charge, you need to > keep them focused on the project, not "in their spare time", and > give them the money to live in reasonable comfort. > > I just had a talk with Theo, and he shared some numbers with me. > There's a digit missing from the current CD pre-orders from where > we were hoping to be now. There's a trailing zero missing from > what we'd really like to have. > > I have a few questions about the stores in Australia (since we're on the topic here). (http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html#au/lsl) LSL doesn't seem to be doing pre-orders (see http://www.lsl.com.au/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=openbsd&x=0&y=0); does anybody know about the status of ESI? I cannot find any mention of OpenBSD, let alone any pre-orders on their site (http://www.esi.com.au/). If anybody living in Australia could help out to call the store/s (I dont live there - it's just that this is the nearest store to me) and enquire, that would be great. thanks, -jf
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
I'd be happy to preorder a CD, I just need to have the money to pay for one, and I'm behind on bills... On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Rod Whitworth wrote: > Of course I try to be first to pre-order my CD setS but the orders > always open when I'm asleep. I am going to keep trying, even after I > achieve it! > > Good pitch, Nick. I'd love to see it on a wider screen somewhere. > > Rod/ > > On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 23:54:12 -0400, Nick Holland wrote: > >>What makes OpenBSD unique? Everyone's got their own list, but here's >>mine: >> >>* Good work is unacceptable, great work is expected. >>* Quality is the #1 goal, it takes a back seat to NOTHING else. >>* Freedom for the users to use OpenBSD without question and without >> lawyers having to be involved, again without compromise. >>* Strong leadership. Not a "core team", or an elected committee >> that blows in the wind of public opinion, but one person who >> sets direction and policy for the project. You may not always >> agree with Theo, but you never wonder where he stands on an >> issue, or what direction the project will go. >>* Commitment to doing it right in one way, not twenty different >> ways ("pick one, maybe you get lucky"). >>* Refusal to accept the damned "all programs have bugs" chant as >> an excuse for making crap >>* No fear of retaining things that work, and trashing things >> that are broke or inferior to newer (or older!) alternatives. >>* The "Just Works" philosophy. >> >>But...a project like OpenBSD doesn't just run on volunteer effort, >>it takes real money. Hardware, infrastructure, Internet services, >>and if you are going to have ONE PERSON in charge, you need to >>keep them focused on the project, not "in their spare time", and >>give them the money to live in reasonable comfort. >> >>I just had a talk with Theo, and he shared some numbers with me. >>There's a digit missing from the current CD pre-orders from where >>we were hoping to be now. There's a trailing zero missing from >>what we'd really like to have. >> >>Long ago, while waiting for customers to hand me money, my first >>boss told me, "The hardest thing to do, but the most important, >>is to ask for the sale". I've never been very good at that, but >>here it is... >> >>People, it is time to get your browsers over to >> http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html >>and start running some money into the project. >> >>Do you use OpenBSD for fun? Contribute. >>Do you use OpenBSD for work? Contribute. >>Does OpenBSD allow you to worry about the problem you are trying >>to solve rather rather than the tools? Contribute. >>Do you wish your employer used the OpenBSD quality standard in >>your work? Contribute. >>Does your employer use OpenBSD? Ask them to contribute (after >>you do, of course). >>Do you bundle OpenBSD or subprojects like OpenSSH into your >>product? Contribute big! (you won't, you rarely do, but hey, >>I'll ask anyway) >>Do you find yourself wondering why so few take computer software >>quality seriously? Contribute! >> >>CDs are our favorite way to get contributions. The price is well >>within what the average person can easily pay for, they are a lot >>more educational than a month of cable TV (and maybe even more fun). >>Sure, the CD itself is not something everyone needs anymore, but >>it is about much more than the data recorded on it. It is the mark >>of being an active OpenBSD supporter, and it provides a nice, neat >>count of "this many people care". >> >>Don't get me wrong, Theo likes big cash contributions, too, but >>(ok, my life flashes before my eyes every time I try to put words >>in Theo's mouth) while a $1 donation from BIGCORP Inc., is >>nice, it is probably more satisfying to see two hundred $50 >>contributions from private people and small businesses who >>appreciate and put a value not only the work OpenBSD does, but >>the KIND of work, the "Quality and Freedom Second to NOTHING" >>philosophy. Don't wait and hope for a big company to speak for >>you, speak your thanks directly for the work and effort that >>goes into OpenBSD by buying a CD set. >> >> >>I'm going to answer a question that comes up periodically: "What >>about T-shirts and mugs and ...?" Well, those are profit points, >>too, but CDs are dirt cheap to make, they store easily, and one >>size fits all. T-shirts have a higher manufacturing cost, take >>up more space, and must be stocked in multiple sizes, all of which >>must be kept accessible. Certainly, buy a t-shirt, buy a mug, >>poster, whatever..but buy a CD set, too. >> >> >>Thanks to those that contribute money and buy CDs. >>Thanks to the OpenBSD team, I can't tell you what an honor >>it is to work (in my small way) with some of the worlds best >>programmers and software DESIGNERS. >>Thanks to Theo de Raadt for the years of showing that it IS >>possible to hold one's ideals up high and proud, never >>compromise them, and never give in, in spite of the pressures >>from those that will trade their ideals
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
Of course I try to be first to pre-order my CD setS but the orders always open when I'm asleep. I am going to keep trying, even after I achieve it! Good pitch, Nick. I'd love to see it on a wider screen somewhere. Rod/ On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 23:54:12 -0400, Nick Holland wrote: >What makes OpenBSD unique? Everyone's got their own list, but here's >mine: > >* Good work is unacceptable, great work is expected. >* Quality is the #1 goal, it takes a back seat to NOTHING else. >* Freedom for the users to use OpenBSD without question and without > lawyers having to be involved, again without compromise. >* Strong leadership. Not a "core team", or an elected committee > that blows in the wind of public opinion, but one person who > sets direction and policy for the project. You may not always > agree with Theo, but you never wonder where he stands on an > issue, or what direction the project will go. >* Commitment to doing it right in one way, not twenty different > ways ("pick one, maybe you get lucky"). >* Refusal to accept the damned "all programs have bugs" chant as > an excuse for making crap >* No fear of retaining things that work, and trashing things > that are broke or inferior to newer (or older!) alternatives. >* The "Just Works" philosophy. > >But...a project like OpenBSD doesn't just run on volunteer effort, >it takes real money. Hardware, infrastructure, Internet services, >and if you are going to have ONE PERSON in charge, you need to >keep them focused on the project, not "in their spare time", and >give them the money to live in reasonable comfort. > >I just had a talk with Theo, and he shared some numbers with me. >There's a digit missing from the current CD pre-orders from where >we were hoping to be now. There's a trailing zero missing from >what we'd really like to have. > >Long ago, while waiting for customers to hand me money, my first >boss told me, "The hardest thing to do, but the most important, >is to ask for the sale". I've never been very good at that, but >here it is... > >People, it is time to get your browsers over to > http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html >and start running some money into the project. > >Do you use OpenBSD for fun? Contribute. >Do you use OpenBSD for work? Contribute. >Does OpenBSD allow you to worry about the problem you are trying >to solve rather rather than the tools? Contribute. >Do you wish your employer used the OpenBSD quality standard in >your work? Contribute. >Does your employer use OpenBSD? Ask them to contribute (after >you do, of course). >Do you bundle OpenBSD or subprojects like OpenSSH into your >product? Contribute big! (you won't, you rarely do, but hey, >I'll ask anyway) >Do you find yourself wondering why so few take computer software >quality seriously? Contribute! > >CDs are our favorite way to get contributions. The price is well >within what the average person can easily pay for, they are a lot >more educational than a month of cable TV (and maybe even more fun). >Sure, the CD itself is not something everyone needs anymore, but >it is about much more than the data recorded on it. It is the mark >of being an active OpenBSD supporter, and it provides a nice, neat >count of "this many people care". > >Don't get me wrong, Theo likes big cash contributions, too, but >(ok, my life flashes before my eyes every time I try to put words >in Theo's mouth) while a $1 donation from BIGCORP Inc., is >nice, it is probably more satisfying to see two hundred $50 >contributions from private people and small businesses who >appreciate and put a value not only the work OpenBSD does, but >the KIND of work, the "Quality and Freedom Second to NOTHING" >philosophy. Don't wait and hope for a big company to speak for >you, speak your thanks directly for the work and effort that >goes into OpenBSD by buying a CD set. > > >I'm going to answer a question that comes up periodically: "What >about T-shirts and mugs and ...?" Well, those are profit points, >too, but CDs are dirt cheap to make, they store easily, and one >size fits all. T-shirts have a higher manufacturing cost, take >up more space, and must be stocked in multiple sizes, all of which >must be kept accessible. Certainly, buy a t-shirt, buy a mug, >poster, whatever..but buy a CD set, too. > > >Thanks to those that contribute money and buy CDs. >Thanks to the OpenBSD team, I can't tell you what an honor >it is to work (in my small way) with some of the worlds best >programmers and software DESIGNERS. >Thanks to Theo de Raadt for the years of showing that it IS >possible to hold one's ideals up high and proud, never >compromise them, and never give in, in spite of the pressures >from those that will trade their ideals for a little temporary >"expediency". > >And thanks to you for reading my rant. > >Nick. > *** NOTE *** Please DO NOT CC me. I subscribed to the list. Mail to the sender address that does not originate at the list server is tarpitted. The reply-to: address is pr
Re: Supporting OpenBSD
Thank you Nick, very well said! And thank you Theo and team for doing what you do. 4.6 CD ordered! -Sam On Tue, 8 Sep 2009, Nick Holland wrote: What makes OpenBSD unique? Everyone's got their own list, but here's mine: * Good work is unacceptable, great work is expected. * Quality is the #1 goal, it takes a back seat to NOTHING else. * Freedom for the users to use OpenBSD without question and without lawyers having to be involved, again without compromise. * Strong leadership. Not a "core team", or an elected committee that blows in the wind of public opinion, but one person who sets direction and policy for the project. You may not always agree with Theo, but you never wonder where he stands on an issue, or what direction the project will go. * Commitment to doing it right in one way, not twenty different ways ("pick one, maybe you get lucky"). * Refusal to accept the damned "all programs have bugs" chant as an excuse for making crap * No fear of retaining things that work, and trashing things that are broke or inferior to newer (or older!) alternatives. * The "Just Works" philosophy. But...a project like OpenBSD doesn't just run on volunteer effort, it takes real money. Hardware, infrastructure, Internet services, and if you are going to have ONE PERSON in charge, you need to keep them focused on the project, not "in their spare time", and give them the money to live in reasonable comfort. I just had a talk with Theo, and he shared some numbers with me. There's a digit missing from the current CD pre-orders from where we were hoping to be now. There's a trailing zero missing from what we'd really like to have. Long ago, while waiting for customers to hand me money, my first boss told me, "The hardest thing to do, but the most important, is to ask for the sale". I've never been very good at that, but here it is... People, it is time to get your browsers over to http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html and start running some money into the project. Do you use OpenBSD for fun? Contribute. Do you use OpenBSD for work? Contribute. Does OpenBSD allow you to worry about the problem you are trying to solve rather rather than the tools? Contribute. Do you wish your employer used the OpenBSD quality standard in your work? Contribute. Does your employer use OpenBSD? Ask them to contribute (after you do, of course). Do you bundle OpenBSD or subprojects like OpenSSH into your product? Contribute big! (you won't, you rarely do, but hey, I'll ask anyway) Do you find yourself wondering why so few take computer software quality seriously? Contribute! CDs are our favorite way to get contributions. The price is well within what the average person can easily pay for, they are a lot more educational than a month of cable TV (and maybe even more fun). Sure, the CD itself is not something everyone needs anymore, but it is about much more than the data recorded on it. It is the mark of being an active OpenBSD supporter, and it provides a nice, neat count of "this many people care". Don't get me wrong, Theo likes big cash contributions, too, but (ok, my life flashes before my eyes every time I try to put words in Theo's mouth) while a $1 donation from BIGCORP Inc., is nice, it is probably more satisfying to see two hundred $50 contributions from private people and small businesses who appreciate and put a value not only the work OpenBSD does, but the KIND of work, the "Quality and Freedom Second to NOTHING" philosophy. Don't wait and hope for a big company to speak for you, speak your thanks directly for the work and effort that goes into OpenBSD by buying a CD set. I'm going to answer a question that comes up periodically: "What about T-shirts and mugs and ...?" Well, those are profit points, too, but CDs are dirt cheap to make, they store easily, and one size fits all. T-shirts have a higher manufacturing cost, take up more space, and must be stocked in multiple sizes, all of which must be kept accessible. Certainly, buy a t-shirt, buy a mug, poster, whatever..but buy a CD set, too. Thanks to those that contribute money and buy CDs. Thanks to the OpenBSD team, I can't tell you what an honor it is to work (in my small way) with some of the worlds best programmers and software DESIGNERS. Thanks to Theo de Raadt for the years of showing that it IS possible to hold one's ideals up high and proud, never compromise them, and never give in, in spite of the pressures from those that will trade their ideals for a little temporary "expediency". And thanks to you for reading my rant. Nick.