Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
At 23:19 03/12/1999 +0200, Stas Bekman wrote: There are a few logos on the site, and we can add some more (I don't know if we would manage to agree on one, though it'd give a stronger sense of "brand"). Right. This talk is about a commercial success. The /perl.apache.org/logos/mod_perl.gif logo represents a bridge between two products (makes one think of a gadget!), not really a product. I remember my first interest to Java associated with the coffee cup, or my first interest to Perl associated with the camel, or even Apache's feather. Well, someone mentioned an eagle. How about the eagle image for an alternative mod_perl logo? I was thinking about hedgehog as one that protected from everything, exactly like mod_perl... I like both. If it is an eagle, we can use anything as long as it isn't a "white-tailed eagle" the association of which with "the topic of Apache modules" is (c) O'Reilly. I can do graphics but I'm no good at drawing. If anyone has the opposite skills configuration, I'm willing to take care of the (web-)graphic part. .Robin You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.
Re: Logo / brand
At 01:12 04/12/1999 +0100, Victor Zamouline wrote: Talking about "let's do something" topics on the mod_perl list is a waste of time, unfortunately... The motto of this list regarding new things is "think it, implement it and give it"... This is somewhat too straightforward, Stas. Look - I only suggested there should be another name and another logo, and we have already had the "Eagle" proposition from Ged, and the watermarks samples at http://b179a.studby.ntnu.no/mod_perl/watermark/ from Salve. I agree that it's a bit straightforward. It's true that a lot of "let's do that" talks lead to nothing, but if you've got an idea and lack the time to make it concrete I think it's still worth sharing. You never know. At least you may get comments that'll play together innocently at the back of your mind until you have time to get the idea done. The Eagle idea sounds really strong and symbolic behind ModPerl, and the graphical image of it would be highly customizable, portable, simple and color-independent. Many sites will thus accept to host the logo on the front page, and many books will reveal a mystery behind an appealing eagle image. I like the Eagle as a logo, but less as a name. Btw, the only anagram I found to modperl is Meld Pro, which is a bit lame (well, there's also Drop ELM, but...). .Robin James Joyce -- an essentially private man who wished his total indifference to public notice to be universally recognized. -- Tom Stoppard
Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
At 18:04 03/12/1999 -0600, Jason Bodnar wrote: You really can't compare mod_perl to ASP or JSP, though, IMHO. Compare those two technologies to Embperl or ePerl or Apache::ASP. That's true. And then compare mod_perl handlers with ISAPI extensions and filters. Mod_perl isn't that hard after all :) Perhaps if we want to seduce more people to mod_perl, it would be a good idea to stress further the fact that there is no need to learn the Apache API to get a hell of a lot of power from mod_perl. Knowing one of the Perl embedding solutions is way enough to create a totally dynamic website that goes much faster than CGI. And here the thing to do would be to help people choose the mod_perl solution they need. To speed up CGI, Registry is enough. To play with the internals of the request process, you need the API. That's clear, yet it could be made even clearer. The biggest problem arises when you want ASP/JSP/CFML/etc style functionality. There are so many that it really gets confusing. I've been at mod_perl for quite some time, but I must admit that I've got no idea which of those would be best suited for which kind of job. I haven't seen them all, but none of those I've seen were bad. Some have more functionality than others, but smaller = less memory usage. It would be really great if we could come up with a clear and short list of pros and cons plus a brief description for each of them, and it would be even better if that list came from the authors. The site organisation which I'll be submitting tonight has a space for this. Any ideas ? The problem with an ISP supporting mod_perl is the fact that you're giving so much power to your clients. It's very easy to bring down an entire physical server by writing a bad handler (or even a bad embperl page). True too, but then very few ISPs support ISAPI extensions, knowing that these too break a server down when they fail. However one could imagine an ISP supporting a Perl embedding scheme (provided that it is safe enough). The problem is again which one to choose ? MiniGuide == ManyPagesGuide now. The fact is that the knowledge is there. But it really does require a guide that is that large to really know how to do good mod_perl code and exploit its advantages. And even then... Maybe a Guide to the Guide somewhere in between the refcard and the actual Guide would be of some help. At the same time, I think that a mod_perl cookbook would be a great idea. If no one has the tuits to start that now, when the site is finished I will. A few generic and well-documented handler examples for each type of Perl*Handler would be good enough to start with, and then anyone can add. However starting now would be great. .Robin James Joyce -- an essentially private man who wished his total indifference to public notice to be universally recognized. -- Tom Stoppard
Re: Logo / brand
At 01:46 04/12/1999 +0100, Victor Zamouline wrote: "The association between the image of a white-tailed eagle and the topic of Apache modules is a trademark of O'Reilly Associates." So it is either a question of getting O'Reilly's authorization, or abandonning the eagle idea. I don't think so. A whatever-color tailed eagle will not violate the copyright imho. Or to read it in a less stupid way, any other type of eagle (there are a certain number) even if it happens to have a white tail. .Robin James Joyce -- an essentially private man who wished his total indifference to public notice to be universally recognized. -- Tom Stoppard
Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
At 18:29 04/12/1999 +1100, Rod Butcher wrote: Um... how about a mythical beast with the head of an eagle and the body of a camel ? Or a feather made of camel fur... :) .Robin James Joyce -- an essentially private man who wished his total indifference to public notice to be universally recognized. -- Tom Stoppard
Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Stas Bekman wrote: I was thinking about hedgehog as one that protected from everything, exactly like mod_perl... Now why didn't _I_ think of that? 73 Ged.
Apache::Session::DBIStore and Sybase
Hello, I've been trying to make Apache::Session::DBIStore (ver 1.04) work with Sybase. Unfortunately Sybase does not permit PREPARE statements to have IMAGE/TEXT datatypes (or at least I haven't found a way to make it work yet) and I get an error. Maybe someone is aware of solution to the problem above? The only I have in mind now is to change DBIStore to not use prepare with ?-style placeholders. Thanks in advance Vladimir
Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
Suddenly, Michael Dearman uttered: "G.W. Haywood" wrote: How about ``Eagle''? Exactly what I was just thinking. Apache Stronghold Apache Eagle Logo? Eagle floating over the feather? Or, the feather floating under the Eagle. An Eagle Feather. Maybe an eagle with a single red-blue-yellow feather in its wing? - Salve -- Better write that english .sig soon...
RE: migrating perl.apache.org to *.modperl.org
Robin and Matt are steadily working on a new face for the site. Meanwhile Baiju Thakkar, the guy behind perlmonth.com and linuxmonth.com, has registered the no-one-understand-how-not-yet-registered modperl.org domain. And he came up with an idea that, it's more natural for mod_perl to be located at modperl.org than on perl.apache.org. I know we are located under Apache ASF umbrella, but I think we can still stay physically under it and have the domain renamed to modperl.org. Baiju suggested the following layout (I've added a bit): www.modperl.org could simply be a CNAME for perl.apache.org. Staying at perl.apache.org has the benefit, that the Apache Search page, also indexes modperl pages and that the modperl pages are also mirrored on every (or most) apache mirrors. (We should metion this fact somewhere on the site, I guess most people don't know this). www.modperl.org jobs.modperl.org dist.modperl.org docs.modperl.org search.modperl.org books.modperl.org conference.modperl.org (I'll talk about this one next time) vs. a basic domain www.modperl.org and all the above subdomains as subdirectories (which is how it'll be physically located anyway) What do you think? Does it make sense to you? Futher suggestions and ruminations are welcome! I don't see any benefit on having so a set of hostnames/subdomains over using subdirectories, execpt that subdomains harder to administer (they have to go into the dns) Gerald - Gerald Richterecos electronic communication services gmbh Internetconnect * Webserver/-design/-datenbanken * Consulting Post: Tulpenstrasse 5 D-55276 Dienheim b. Mainz E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice:+49 6133 925151 WWW:http://www.ecos.de Fax: +49 6133 925152 -
RE: migrating perl.apache.org to *.modperl.org
Hi all, On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Gerald Richter wrote: I don't see any benefit on having so a set of hostnames/subdomains over using subdirectories, execpt that subdomains harder to administer (they have to go into the dns) There may possibly be a benefit if traffic were high. The different domain names could more easily be pointed to different IP addresses to relieve network congestion or a single overloaded machine/interface/sysadmin. It's no big deal to administer a small zone like this. 73 Ged.
RE: migrating perl.apache.org to *.modperl.org
I don't see any benefit on having so a set of hostnames/subdomains over using subdirectories, execpt that subdomains harder to administer (they have to go into the dns) There may possibly be a benefit if traffic were high. The different domain names could more easily be pointed to different IP addresses to relieve network congestion or a single overloaded machine/interface/sysadmin. It's no big deal to administer a small zone like this. Yes, of course, but directing the traffic to the Apache mirrors all over the world would be even better (at least from my point of view) Gerald
Re: Apache::Session::DBIStore and Sybase
Vladimir Ivaschenko wrote: Hello, I've been trying to make Apache::Session::DBIStore (ver 1.04) work with Sybase. Unfortunately Sybase does not permit PREPARE statements to have IMAGE/TEXT datatypes (or at least I haven't found a way to make it work yet) and I get an error. What error do you get? Post a code sample. We can't help if we can't see what what you're doing.
Re: Apache::Session::DBIStore and Sybase
Sat, Dec 04, 1999 at 09:34:07AM -0500 Mark D. Landry ÎÁÐÉÓÁÌ ÐÏ ÐÏ×ÏÄÕ Re: Apache::Session::DBIStore and Sybase Sybase. Unfortunately Sybase does not permit PREPARE statements to have IMAGE/TEXT datatypes (or at least I haven't found a way to make it work yet) and I get an error. What error do you get? Post a code sample. We can't help if we can't see what what you're doing. For example, "make test" from EmbPerl fails on mdatsess.htm, with error message (coming from server through Sybase's CT-Lib) close to "Cannot do dynamic PREPARE on IMAGE or TEXT datatypes" (sorry, don't have access to server right now). I made the following table in Sybase for holding session data: create table sessions ( id char(16) primary key, length decimal(11), a_session text ) I tried to be as close as possible to table structure recommended by DBIStore.pm documentation. -- Best Regards Vladimir Ivaschenko http://www.hazard.maks.net/~hazard
RE: image problem..
I got a strange problem: I succeed install and run embperl on my machine which everything works fine but I could not access any image file in my /var/www/htdocs/embperl_test or its sub-directories. I had three gif files there (blank.gif, minus.gif, plus.gif), but they could not be shown in a browser at http://esip.gmu.edu:8529/embperl_test/blank.gif. On the other hand, it works locally at file:/var/www/htdocs/embperl_test/blank.gif. Do you have any idea? It does not make any sense to let Embperl process your gifs. So if you configured mod_perl to process all files under embperl_test with Embperl, you should tell Embperl for which files type it is responsible by setting EMBPERL_FILESMATCH. EMBPERL_FILESMATCH If specified, only files which match the given perl regular expression will be processed by Embperl, all other files will be handled by the standard Apache handler. This can be useful if you have Embperl documents and non Embperl documents (e.g. gifs) cohabitating in the same directory. EMBPERL_FILESMATCH works only under mod_perl. Example: # Only files which end with .htm will processed by Embperl PerlSetEnv EMBPERL_FILESMATCH \.htm$ Gerald - Gerald Richterecos electronic communication services gmbh Internetconnect * Webserver/-design/-datenbanken * Consulting Post: Tulpenstrasse 5 D-55276 Dienheim b. Mainz E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice:+49 6133 925151 WWW:http://www.ecos.de Fax: +49 6133 925152 -
Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
On Fri, 03 Dec 1999, Gidon Wise wrote: Hello Everybody, I believe it is true. We could have more more mod_perl programmers. I think that the biggest problem/opportunity that mod_perl has in terms of proliferation amongst programmers/users is that Hosts currently do not provide mod_perl on cheap virtual server package. I think a whole lot of perl programmers and non perl programmers would move to mod_perl if the service was provided. Currently in The Guide it discusses 3 possibilities for Hosts. http://perl.apache.org/guide/multiuser.html#ISPs_providing_mod_perl_services Are there any other ways that we can suggest to hosts which are easier for all involved? I am not that experienced with mod_perl so I cannot propose a robust solution. But I do believe there must be one. Even a limited/special version or configuration of mod_perl would do. What hosts want is a secure way to host mod_perl like suexec (so they can assign users ulimit's). I don't know if (how) that can be achieved with mod_perl - it's been discussed before with no solution. -- Matt/ Details: FastNet Software Ltd - XML, Perl, Databases. Tagline: High Performance Web Solutions Web Sites: http://come.to/fastnet http://sergeant.org Available for Consultancy, Contracts and Training.
Re: Logo / brand
I have browsed my graphic libraries and put some eagles and other birds at: http://www.jazzvalley.com/modperl/symbols/index.html I am not a graphist, but those willing to make a sketch of a logo (assuming there is an eagle on it) may use some of that stuff. I loved the drawings as they are closer to being a logo-like vs the real photos. Especially I liked: http://www.jazzvalley.com/images/modperl/animals/birds/gif/hawk7.gif http://www.jazzvalley.com/images/modperl/animals/birds/gif/baldegl1.gif http://www.jazzvalley.com/images/modperl/animals/birds/gif/baldegl3.gif I don't think there would be a problem with ORA, as this work for their books promotion... we see camel everywhere. Personally I've no problem adding a copyright note on the same page with image. Here is a new idea: Eagle on top of camel and the Apache feather somewhere in a middle... probably too complicated for a small scaled logo... ___ Stas Bekman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.singlesheaven.com/stas Perl,CGI,Apache,Linux,Web,Java,PC at www.singlesheaven.com/stas/TULARC www.apache.org www.perl.com == www.modperl.com || perl.apache.org single o- + single o-+ = singlesheavenhttp://www.singlesheaven.com
Re: Logo / brand
- Original Message - From: "Stas Bekman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Victor Zamouline" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 11:08 AM Subject: Re: Logo / brand I have browsed my graphic libraries and put some eagles and other birds at: http://www.jazzvalley.com/modperl/symbols/index.html I am not a graphist, but those willing to make a sketch of a logo (assuming there is an eagle on it) may use some of that stuff. I loved the drawings as they are closer to being a logo-like vs the real photos. Especially I liked: http://www.jazzvalley.com/images/modperl/animals/birds/gif/hawk7.gif http://www.jazzvalley.com/images/modperl/animals/birds/gif/baldegl1.gif http://www.jazzvalley.com/images/modperl/animals/birds/gif/baldegl3.gif Speaking of drawings vs. photo ... If needed, I can take a stab at converting any photos to line-art (ala Adobe Streamline and friends). I also do 3DSMax stuff (mostly hobby/addiction) if that's of any interest. noteSometimes it's easier to use Max to achieve certain effects on 2D graphics (shadows, bevels/extrudes, rotations, text animation, etc)./note -Jay J
Re: Failed to set ProxyReceiveBufferSize
"OB" == Oleg Bartunov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OB This message is for every proxied request. OB Does anybody knows what does it means ? OB In proxy config I have OB ProxyReceiveBufferSize 1048576 OB Restarting proxy server doesn't helps. OB btw, anybody know what is an optimal size of ProxyReceiveBufferSize OB and does it really works. As a followup to Vivek's email, I've digged up in the linux kernel sources, the 2 relevant snippets are: /usr/src/linux/net/core/sock.c: /* Run time adjustable parameters. */ __u32 sysctl_wmem_max = SK_WMEM_MAX; __u32 sysctl_rmem_max = SK_RMEM_MAX; __u32 sysctl_wmem_default = SK_WMEM_MAX; __u32 sysctl_rmem_default = SK_RMEM_MAX; [snip] case SO_RCVBUF: /* Don't error on this BSD doesn't and if you think about it this is right. Otherwise apps have to play 'guess the biggest size' games. RCVBUF/SNDBUF are treated in BSD as hints */ if (val sysctl_rmem_max) val = sysctl_rmem_max; /* FIXME: is this lower bound the right one? */ sk-rcvbuf = max(val*2,256); break; /usr/src/linux/include/linux/skbuff.h: /* These are just the default values. This is run time configurable. * FIXME: Probably the config option should go away. -- erics */ # ifdef CONFIG_SKB_LARGE #define SK_WMEM_MAX 65535 #define SK_RMEM_MAX 65535 #else #define SK_WMEM_MAX 32767 #define SK_RMEM_MAX 32767 #endif So the limit is either 32k or 64k, depending on CONFIG_SKB_LARGE... If you set it bigger it silently uses the default value as you see in the first code snippet I used to write a 1Mb example in the guide. Have removed the rewishful setting :) ___ Stas Bekman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.singlesheaven.com/stas Perl,CGI,Apache,Linux,Web,Java,PC at www.singlesheaven.com/stas/TULARC www.apache.org www.perl.com == www.modperl.com || perl.apache.org single o- + single o-+ = singlesheavenhttp://www.singlesheaven.com
Re: mod_perl on Solaris 7
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Tom Mornini wrote: What are current opinions of Apache/mod_perl on Solaris 7? A company that I am consulting for has different opinions on this subject than I have. I have had no trouble making and operating various front-end/back-end combinations with no difficulty at all. They have had trouble making and operating various combinations and feel that 2.6 is more stable, though they have not run 2.6 in their shop yet, but know that stable 2.6 boxes do exist. Obviously any problem could be a configuration/setup issue, and that is what I feel their issue was. Am I wrong? -- -- Tom Mornini -- InfoMania Printing and Prepress Christopher Nielsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ZORINco.com __ Makers of fine microcontroller products - ModCon Microcontroller - SPI-X10 Home Automation controller - MIDI Gizmo - Audio Board - and other fine products and accessories C O N T R O LY O U RW O R L D
Re: Failed to set ProxyReceiveBufferSize
On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Stas Bekman wrote: Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:52:07 +0200 (IST) From: Stas Bekman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Oleg Bartunov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: mod_perl list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Failed to set ProxyReceiveBufferSize "OB" == Oleg Bartunov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OB This message is for every proxied request. OB Does anybody knows what does it means ? OB In proxy config I have OB ProxyReceiveBufferSize 1048576 OB Restarting proxy server doesn't helps. OB btw, anybody know what is an optimal size of ProxyReceiveBufferSize OB and does it really works. As a followup to Vivek's email, I've digged up in the linux kernel sources, the 2 relevant snippets are: /usr/src/linux/net/core/sock.c: /* Run time adjustable parameters. */ __u32 sysctl_wmem_max = SK_WMEM_MAX; __u32 sysctl_rmem_max = SK_RMEM_MAX; __u32 sysctl_wmem_default = SK_WMEM_MAX; __u32 sysctl_rmem_default = SK_RMEM_MAX; [snip] case SO_RCVBUF: /* Don't error on this BSD doesn't and if you think about it this is right. Otherwise apps have to play 'guess the biggest size' games. RCVBUF/SNDBUF are treated in BSD as hints */ if (val sysctl_rmem_max) val = sysctl_rmem_max; /* FIXME: is this lower bound the right one? */ sk-rcvbuf = max(val*2,256); break; /usr/src/linux/include/linux/skbuff.h: /* These are just the default values. This is run time configurable. * FIXME: Probably the config option should go away. -- erics */ # ifdef CONFIG_SKB_LARGE #define SK_WMEM_MAX 65535 #define SK_RMEM_MAX 65535 #else #define SK_WMEM_MAX 32767 #define SK_RMEM_MAX 32767 #endif So the limit is either 32k or 64k, depending on CONFIG_SKB_LARGE... If you set it bigger it silently uses the default value as you see in the first code snippet I used to write a 1Mb example in the guide. Have removed the rewishful setting :) No, don't remove it. Under FreeBSD it's possible to configure kernel to have more buffers for socket: sysctl -w kern.ipc.maxsockbuf=2621440 I did this and errors are gone now ! I still use 1Mb value. Probably it's worth to comment this in your guide. Regards, Oleg ___ Stas Bekman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.singlesheaven.com/stas Perl,CGI,Apache,Linux,Web,Java,PC at www.singlesheaven.com/stas/TULARC www.apache.org www.perl.com == www.modperl.com || perl.apache.org single o- + single o-+ = singlesheavenhttp://www.singlesheaven.com _ Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet, Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia) Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83
Re: Name: overview
"Victor Zamouline" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 6) Eagle with a single red-blue-yellow feather in its wing, proposed by Salve Nilsen I think I've kept up with the thread, but I may have missed a post or two. If I'm repeating, please forgive me. I like this idea, but I'm seeing the Eagle from the mod_perl book in grey with the one feather in color. If so, I like this one. Even without any words. -- James Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED], 409-862-3725 Texas AM CIS Operating Systems Group, Unix
Re: Logo / brand
Eagle on top of camel and the Apache feather somewhere in a middle... probably too complicated for a small scaled logo... I am afraid, yes. We have not yet reached any opinion on whether the logo should represent a "bridge" or an "independent product". In the case of an "independent product", I think that Mod_Perl should have its own isolated symbol. What if some webmasters will also want to include their tribute to Perl and Apache on their pages? Then, the three logos aligned together make a perfect family. Vic.
RE: moperl mirror sites (was: migrating perl.apache.org to *.modperl.org)
It's no big deal to administer a small zone like this. Yes, of course, but directing the traffic to the Apache mirrors all over the world would be even better (at least from my point of view) I have added a list of the modperl mirrors, have a look at perl.apache.org Gerald
Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Jason Bodnar wrote: On 03-Dec-99 Gunther Birznieks wrote: I think mod_perl is sufficiently hard that even as more people learn how to do the simple stuff, mod_perl will still be 'difficult' enough. I don't think it is like Java or Perl where the stratification is there in the language knowledge. Unless mod_perl itself gets easier, I don't see it beinglike ASP or JSP or Servlets (being a new technology people will eventually learn). I don't see how people can say mod_perl is "hard". It's the Apache API in perl (with some niceties). If you know perl, you learn the API and that's that. It's no different than learning an API for some other product. Well, it really helps to understand the response process of Apache. You really can't compare mod_perl to ASP or JSP, though, IMHO. Compare those two technologies to Embperl or ePerl or Apache::ASP. The reason it is different is that you have to be in the top 15 percentile to debug and write mod_perl code which won't hav subtle errors. Just putting in use strict and -w doesn't cut it. There's a load of gotchas that people just have to understand and learn on top of Perl skills. I don't think it is about training either. It's a matter of making mod_perl easier. It just really is not easy. How are you going to make it easier? Create a GUI RAD IDE (gotta get in the buzzwords) for creating handlers? One of the things I love about mod_perl is that there are enough modules out there to do what you want most of the time without writing your own. Apache::Run is a start of whatI am talking about. But even then. Also installation is not all that easy to troubleshoot for UNIX novices. Again, it's hard enough finding a good perl programmer, but finding someone who can compile everything together and understand it all is a top 15 percentile ( and I think I am being generous) skill which I don't think simple training will help with. You don't have to be top 15th percentile VB or top 15th percentile Java to write ASPs or Servlets respectively. Although for servlets, I would say top 50th at least if you don't want a completely crappy OO servlet architecture. I don't think the fact that the mini-guide has grown so much is indicator of how difficult it is to learn mod_perl. You'd have to read as much to write stuff in ISAPI or NSAPI. The fact is that most applications don't need an ISAPI or NSAPI filter, so the need to learn it is extremely low. This is why mod_perl will be niche unless the learning curve is much smaller. Yeah, it's as hard. But that's the point. If it is as hard then it will always be the realm of people who are good at Perl and now need/want to stretch their Perl skills. Most people that I interview who say they know Perl, are at the level that they know vaguely what use strict does and to use taintmode, but still they create pretty reasonable web apps. But the problem is that to extend them to a mod_perl Apache::Registry environment is a huge learning curve for people who are already very productive web app developers. Later, Gunther PS A little upbeat tidbit. Our ASP developers where I work are using Mail::Sender wrapped in ActiveState's COM wrapper API because they finally got sick of all the crap and problems with CDO. :)
Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
On Fri, Dec 03, 1999 at 11:15:53PM +0200, Stas Bekman wrote: Does anybody see a niche for a new web-hosting company specializing in mode_perl and other goodies, rather than the generic "package" ? Matt ? That could ease the management problem of "we agree mod_perl is great, but our hoster won't run it". I for one ended up having to host my own website because nobody would host mod_perl msql for less than an arm and a leg. Sure, Rod, there is a niche Build a rack of machines, give each client a dedicated box and have solved the problem of many people seeking mod_perl support. The question is how much this service is going to cost... Painful question. I guess the answer lies in how much responsibility the ISP is being asked to shoulder. I've thought about putting together a package of 1) Apache 2) mod_perl 3) mysql 4) reverse proxy cache 5) a slice of raid 6) automated remote backup 7) hardware update calendars... But you can't walk into Exodus without paying $750 for rackspace... Is this Rod's proverbial arm and a leg? Quite frankly, providing a service like this is a bit more interesting to me at the moment than actuall programming. If anyone is looking to partner up to make a service like this a reality, I'd certainly be interested in chatting. John
Fix for Redhat(?) bug in mod_perl install
I don't remember if this has been discussed before but anyway. If you're running Redhat 6.0 (and maybe 6.1?) there may be some weirdness when you try to install modperl. Basically, when you go to run make on apache, it gives it some -L or -I flags that include libgdbm, because your Perl was compiled with this. However, there is a missing symlink in the /usr/lib directory. Just do the following to fix it: ln -s libgdbm.so.2.0.0 libgdbm.so This should probably be added to the guide or something. The failure message you get is the compile failed the sanity check, with no mention of libgdbm at all. It's pretty wacky! -Dave /*== www.urth.org We await the New Sun ==*/
Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
Or even the head of a camel on an eagles body? I guess you could call it
an Eamel ;-)
my $.02
Bill
===
Bill Desjardinshttp://www.carracing.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Tel: 305.205.8644
FREE Homepages for Racers and Race Tracks!!
On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Rod Butcher wrote:
Um... how about a mythical beast with the head of an eagle and the body
of a camel ?
Rod
Baiju Thakkar wrote:
Well, someone mentioned an eagle. How about the eagle image for an
alternative mod_perl logo? I was thinking about hedgehog as one that
protected from everything, exactly like mod_perl...
Well mod_perl as a project has gotten the permission to
use the camel right ? I suggest we keep the camel.
Maybe give him lots of muscle with the apache feather
in there somewhere. There must be someone with some
graphic design experience lurking around here. :)
---
Baiju Thakkar
http://www.perlmonth.comhttp://www.linuxmonth.com
Just use Perl; Still thinking :)
--
Rod Butcher | "... I gaze at the beauty of the world,
Hyena Holdings Internet | its wonders and its miracles and out of
Programming | sheer joy I laugh even as the day laughs.
("it's us or the vultures") | And then the people of the jungle say,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | 'It is but the laughter of a hyena'".
|Kahlil Gibran.. The Wanderer
Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
John White wrote: On Fri, Dec 03, 1999 at 11:15:53PM +0200, Stas Bekman wrote: Does anybody see a niche for a new web-hosting company specializing in mode_perl and other goodies, rather than the generic "package" ? Matt ? That could ease the management problem of "we agree mod_perl is great, but our hoster won't run it". I for one ended up having to host my own website because nobody would host mod_perl msql for less than an arm and a leg. Sure, Rod, there is a niche Build a rack of machines, give each client a dedicated box and have solved the problem of many people seeking mod_perl support. The question is how much this service is going to cost... From my experience: Above.net, tier 1, guaranteed bandwidth 19X12 Rack = $400 monthly allows 128K (in 95%, billed for increase) 19X12 Rack fits 3 3U cases each case holds 2X500 PIII, Intel GX MB w/onboard video,100baseT and UW SCSI,256M,18Gig UW IBM, Approx = $2500 per machine Situation 1: shared three tier platform First CPU: lightweight front end has Mod_proxy, Mod_rewrite, Mod_ssl 2nd CPU: Mod_perl 3rd CPU runs mysql possibly DNS and Qmail also. Add in $200 Switch to segment 10 baseT Internet drop from 100baseT 'internal' frontend/modperl/database network. Also 4 port 100base T hub for $100. Sitution 2: Each client gets a dedicated machine combining each of the three seperate ones from above (expensive, only 3 clients per rack). Initial hardware outlay approx: 7500+200+100 = $7800 upfront + 400 monthly (min) Approximate traffic that can be served from this platform?? Additional monthly fees for traffic above 128K? 256K and 19X24 rackspace = $800 I think Painful question. I guess the answer lies in how much responsibility the ISP is being asked to shoulder. I've thought about putting together a package of 1) Apache 2) mod_perl 3) mysql 4) reverse proxy cache 5) a slice of raid 6) automated remote backup 7) hardware update calendars... But you can't walk into Exodus without paying $750 for rackspace... Is this Rod's proverbial arm and a leg? Quite frankly, providing a service like this is a bit more interesting to me at the moment than actuall programming. If anyone is looking to partner up to make a service like this a reality, I'd certainly be interested in chatting. John
Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
Gunther Birznieks wrote: You don't have to be top 15th percentile VB or top 15th percentile Java to write ASPs or Servlets respectively. Although for servlets, I would say top 50th at least if you don't want a completely crappy OO servlet architecture. I have organized a series of personnel trainings in a number of huge French companies, and I have been constantly trying to spread the mod_perl word and look at people's reaction. If I talk about mod_perl on Monday: A young computer genius (you know the kind of guy who will build his own company when he is 25) will return to the training on Tuesday with the Eagle book in his hands. A well-placed VB script programmer just won't care. He will get very nervous when I pronounce "Unix". A convinced Java programmer will desperately seek for equivalent functions for Enterprise Java Beans, CORBA, RMI, etc, then he will just shrug his shoulders. A decision maker will sleep until I say "performance". He will completely wake up when I bring up statistics from Stas' guide. Then he will ask me if I am willing to come back next week to give a profound training on mod_perl, and then he will never call me back. As I understand the companies' philosophy, mod-perl's advantages that we bring up here are actually DRAWBACKS for them, as compared to VB Script. They used to find immediate solutions for an immediate contract. When I ask a question to a Perl or Java developer, most of the time he can explain me the whole theory behind it. On the contrary, a VB developer always answers "I don't know, I have always done this way and it works". So, a company hiring VB developers knows that these are humble and obedient guys who will make the application work, even if an extra semicolon will ruin the whole program. And that is perfectly OK with such companies because they sell the product and the MAINTENANCE behind it (they call it "maintenance", but it actually means re-writing the whole program when the client only needs an extra semicolon). But a good Perl programmer is more often uncontrollable, he writes a perfect program, but no one else understands it, and if he quits the company tomorrow they won't find anyone else to do the "maintenance". So when I spread the mod_perl word, I make sure I don't make my client hire another bunch of VB programmers after what I told them about mod_perl during the training. :))) I also tried to take individual VB/PowerBuilder/etc. guys and teach Perl to them. Well, I can make them understand the technical side but not the BEAUTY of Perl. Maybe I am not a perfect trainer, but after such trainings I see these guys LITERALLY TRANSLATE their programs from VB to Perl. Just to make a resume, I am afraid Mod_Perl will remain an elite-oriented product. That is not really embarassing, because the education guidelines change too, and more and more guys switch to the elite layer, bringing up their own projects. So if this talk is about spreading mod_perl to the whole Internet programming community, wouldn't it be better to say, making mod_perl THE CHOICE of the BEST Internet projects? Vic.
Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Victor Zamouline wrote: [...] Right. This talk is about a commercial success. The /perl.apache.org/logos/mod_perl.gif logo represents a bridge between two products [...] But that is what it is. A very cool bridge indeed, but a bridge. - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/ more than 60M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
Re: PerlFreshRestart and %INC
Foolishness alert/Newbie approaches. Hate that this thread died. Was following it to get some insights into the nether regions. I read some doc about DBI or Apache/DBI pinging or doing some kind of trace on the other when a db connection was attempted. I thought it made the point that Apache/DBI was not loaded until a connection was attempted by DBI.pm. Would appreciate a heads up on what doc that was. Can't find it again. *sigh* Thanks, Michael Dearman
Re: Name: overview
Perhaps, just maybe, it should be Doug's decision whether mod_perl needs a name change? At 05:25 PM 12/4/99 +0100, Victor Zamouline wrote: Let me overview the propositions that have been made: 1) Eagle, proposed by Ged Haywood. Copyrighted by O'Reilly, but it looks like this problem can be solved. 2) Hedgehog, proposed by Stas Bekman. 3) Oyster, proposed by Randy Harmon 4) Mythical beast with the head of an eagle and the body of a camel, proposed by Rod Butcher 5) Meld Pro, anagram proposed by Robin Berjon 6) Eagle with a single red-blue-yellow feather in its wing, proposed by Salve Nilsen 7) Red brick base of a building, with mod_perl inscribed on a brass plaque, proposed by John Burns Did I miss out something? Vic. -- Jason Bodnar + Tivoli Systems = [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
I'd rather see a camel with wings. Seems like an eagle without wings isn't much of an eagle, and a camel without a hump isn't much of a camel. Just like mod_perl gives you all the power of Apache Perl together? Yeah, I'm reaching. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Desjardins) wrote: Or even the head of a camel on an eagles body? I guess you could call it an Eamel ;-) my $.02 Bill === Bill Desjardinshttp://www.carracing.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]Tel: 305.205.8644 FREE Homepages for Racers and Race Tracks!! On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Rod Butcher wrote: Um... how about a mythical beast with the head of an eagle and the body of a camel ? Rod ------ Ken Williams Last Bastion of Euclidity [EMAIL PROTECTED]The Math Forum
Re: Logo / brand
At 20:51 +0100 99.12.4, Victor Zamouline wrote: Eagle on top of camel and the Apache feather somewhere in a middle... probably too complicated for a small scaled logo... I am afraid, yes. We have not yet reached any opinion on whether the logo should represent a "bridge" or an "independent product". In the case of an "independent product", I think that Mod_Perl should have its own isolated symbol. What if some webmasters will also want to include their tribute to Perl and Apache on their pages? Then, the three logos aligned together make a perfect family. Vic. Personally, I think the name mod_perl should be kept, and mod_perl hackers should start referring to themselves as "The Mod Squad". A logo could be created based on the shape of Linc's hair from the Mod Squad TV series. Of course this wouldn't mean much to anyone who hadn't wasted childhood hours watching cheesy American TV shows... -Dave
Re: Logo / Brand
- Original Message - From: "Ken Williams" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Bill Desjardins" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 11:31 PM Subject: Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up... Ken wrote: I'd rather see a camel with wings. Seems like an eagle without wings isn't much of an eagle, and a camel without a hump isn't much of a camel. Just like mod_perl gives you all the power of Apache Perl together? Yeah, I'm reaching. It occurred to me that an appropriate metaphor might be an elephant. :-) After all, an elephant: never forgets, it towers over the other animals in the jungle, it's often hunted by evil human predators, one can easily afix a saddle to ride on top, it's smart: "They have the biggest brain (12 lbs.)..", it's thick skinned. Maybe we adorn it's back with an apache-feather colored blanket, or a feather behind it's ear. From the latin pachydermas apacheous? http://www.reno.quik.com/snow/elephant.html http://www.lazoo.org/elephants/elephant_facts.html The logo :-) http://www.lazoo.org/elephants/ELEPHANT.GIF Couple problems though, it might be tough to make an elephant look "cool" (shades?), and the obvious jab: mod_perl = elephant = big footprint = proof: ps aux | grep apache :-o -Jay J [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Desjardins) wrote: Or even the head of a camel on an eagles body? I guess you could call it an Eamel ;-) my $.02 Bill === Bill Desjardinshttp://www.carracing.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]Tel: 305.205.8644 FREE Homepages for Racers and Race Tracks!! On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Rod Butcher wrote: Um... how about a mythical beast with the head of an eagle and the body of a camel ? Rod
Re: mod_perl Programmers demand is going up...
And Lincons roots?
Re: Failed to set ProxyReceiveBufferSize
"OB" == Oleg Bartunov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OB This message is for every proxied request. OB Does anybody knows what does it means ? OB In proxy config I have OB ProxyReceiveBufferSize 1048576 OB Restarting proxy server doesn't helps. OB btw, anybody know what is an optimal size of ProxyReceiveBufferSize OB and does it really works. As a followup to Vivek's email, I've digged up in the linux kernel sources, the 2 relevant snippets are: /usr/src/linux/net/core/sock.c: /* Run time adjustable parameters. */ __u32 sysctl_wmem_max = SK_WMEM_MAX; __u32 sysctl_rmem_max = SK_RMEM_MAX; __u32 sysctl_wmem_default = SK_WMEM_MAX; __u32 sysctl_rmem_default = SK_RMEM_MAX; [snip] case SO_RCVBUF: /* Don't error on this BSD doesn't and if you think about it this is right. Otherwise apps have to play 'guess the biggest size' games. RCVBUF/SNDBUF are treated in BSD as hints */ if (val sysctl_rmem_max) val = sysctl_rmem_max; /* FIXME: is this lower bound the right one? */ sk-rcvbuf = max(val*2,256); break; /usr/src/linux/include/linux/skbuff.h: /* These are just the default values. This is run time configurable. * FIXME: Probably the config option should go away. -- erics */ # ifdef CONFIG_SKB_LARGE #define SK_WMEM_MAX 65535 #define SK_RMEM_MAX 65535 #else #define SK_WMEM_MAX 32767 #define SK_RMEM_MAX 32767 #endif So the limit is either 32k or 64k, depending on CONFIG_SKB_LARGE... If you set it bigger it silently uses the default value as you see in the first code snippet I used to write a 1Mb example in the guide. Have removed the rewishful setting :) No, don't remove it. Under FreeBSD it's possible to configure kernel to have more buffers for socket: sysctl -w kern.ipc.maxsockbuf=2621440 I did this and errors are gone now ! I still use 1Mb value. Probably it's worth to comment this in your guide. Of course! Thanks Oleg! Someone wants to include a similar infobits regarding other OS? ___ Stas Bekman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.singlesheaven.com/stas Perl,CGI,Apache,Linux,Web,Java,PC at www.singlesheaven.com/stas/TULARC www.apache.org www.perl.com == www.modperl.com || perl.apache.org single o- + single o-+ = singlesheavenhttp://www.singlesheaven.com
