Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
I'm mostly a lurker but I really enjoy the comprehension strategy discussion on the listserv. My district currently uses a scripted reading program. The anthology( all authentic literature) is not bad but we're married to the workbook that goes along with it. I follow the program only because I feel I have to. Without the workbook, I'm afraid my students would not do well on the required theme tests that come with the program. Ever since I join this listserv I realized that what I am currently doing does not make my students (first grade) more thoughtful and reflective readers. So I paid out of my own pocket to go see ellin and Debbie Miller. I've read many of the books you discuss here. I keep abreast of what those of you on this listserv do in hopes that one day I can be a regular contributor to the site. I think my district likes the scripted program because it keeps all the teachers on the same page. I teach in a district that has 9 elementary schools. With that said, some teachers in my district are piloting a program from Rigby called Literacy by Design. It's a balanced literacy program with authors such as Hoyt, Marzano and Opitz (http://rigby.harcourtachieve.com/en-US/literacydesign_authors) among others. While it's probably not ideal, if the district adopts the program, it will bring us closer to what many of you are doing in your classroom. I teach in NJ and the state is in the process of revising the Core Curriculum Content Standards. I'm excited about what they're proposing because much of it leans to balanced literacy. They reference Harvey and Goudvis, Calkins, and Keene and Zimmerman and their respective books. While these are only proposed changes, chances are they'll pass. If anyone one wants to look at them, you can go to http://www.state.nj.us/education/aps/cccs/2009/lal/index.html I'm hoping that the listserv gets back to discussing comprehension strategies. I live vicariously through many of you and hope one day to be teaching reading just like you. Felicia -Original Message- From: mosaic-boun...@literacyworkshop.org [mailto:mosaic-boun...@literacyworkshop.org] On Behalf Of cnjpal...@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:58 PM To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] heartbreak
I wanted the quote from Einstien sorry Pat K "to be nobody but yourself -- in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you like everybody else -- means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight, and never stop fighting." e.e. cummings On Feb 18, 2009, at 7:11 AM, Carol Carlson wrote: I love e e cummings. Now I'll have to get the whole poem! Carol On Feb 18, 2009, at 9:02 AM, Liz Vaughan wrote: "A Poet's Advice to Students" in E. E. Cummings, a Miscellany: A Miscellany (1958), edited by George James Firmage, p. 13 On 2/18/09 7:41 AM, "Patricia Kimathi" wrote: Is this a real quote. Do you know the reference. I need it for the staff I work with. Pat K "to be nobody but yourself -- in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you like everybody else -- means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight, and never stop fighting." e.e. cummings ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
Elisa Thank you. You are right. I know you are reflecting the views of many since my mailbox is filling with off-list pleas to bring the list back to a discussion of comprehension. I know the discussion we've been having is important and I don't want to "censor" anyone...but I would like us as a group to reflect upon the purpose we were created for... If you go to the Mosaic home page, this is what you will find: <> I appreciate the respectful tone the discussions take...but I am thinking at this point, we might want to consider the reason we all came to Mosaic was to discuss comprehension. Maybe it is time we get back to that... Jennifer List moderator In a message dated 2/20/2009 8:46:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, elwaingor...@cbe.ab.ca writes: What is interesting to me about this whole thread and sub thread is how far away they have taken us from talk of comprehension and strategy instruction. Again, we are being led astray to discuss things that don't add anything of value to the purpose for which the Mosaic list was established. Elisa Elisa Waingort **You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove0002) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Daily Five
In a message dated 2/19/2009 9:30:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, coo...@verizon.net writes: <> That's what I did and it works great! Jennifer **You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove0002) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Research
Is it What Research Has to Say About Reading Instruction? (third edition) by Alan Farstrup and Jay Samuels Christi A. Poteet Reading Specialist Delores Moye School cpot...@ofallon90.net From: mosaic-boun...@literacyworkshop.org on behalf of Brenda Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 7:40 PM To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Subject: [MOSAIC] Research I was wondering if someone can help me? I remember reading about a book that was written to help teachers who are using best practices to suppor their professional decisions with research. Does anyone know what this book is called? Thanks, Brenda ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
I think we need to clarify scripts. To me, scripts are word for word texts for lessons that we need to say, with fidelity, or else (according to the creators of the program) we won't get the amazing results they claim. I think the reason DI programs are so attractive is that they mold automaton kids and teachers - kind of Stepford teachers and children. Teachers feel in control because they are in control. DI emphasizes the easiest and least important aspects of literacy: phonics and literal comprehension. A phrase here and there does not a script make. Let's not be so polite that we can't just come out and say things as they are. Our kids deserve more. We, the teachers, deserve more. I don't think there is anything of value in DI programs. The only thing they do is dumb down both teachers and students. What is interesting to me about this whole thread and sub thread is how far away they have taken us from talk of comprehension and strategy instruction. Again, we are being led astray to discuss things that don't add anything of value to the purpose for which the Mosaic list was established. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:23:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mosaic-requ...@literacyworkshop.org writes: think scripts have a place for some teachers especially if Just food for thought:) Did any of us in our journey through learning how to teach comprehension strategies and transforming our classrooms into literate rich communities ever use "Debbie Millers script"? "Did you say over and over again "So, how did that help you as a reader?" so many times that you felt it was a recording? Possibly, but I bet you moved on to even deeper conversation. You moved on with your readers and where they were in their journey. I sure did use those scripts and sometimes still do. . . especially when something is still new to me.But, I am a thinking teacher and appreciate Debbie and Lucy's words as a model and use them until they become comfortable and become my own versions. . . until I am able to move past them and mold my own words according to the readers I am with and their needs. Thank you so much Lucy for giving me the "think about reading worker script I love to use! Thank you so much to the "Learning Pad" site that has some wonderful scripting. I did not think of any of these great ideas, but used the ideas to aide my own understanding and thinking. Do we not provide scripts for our own readers in our classroom as we model conversations in reader's share each day? Eventually, they are asking these same questions of others and more importantly of themselves when they think about their thinking. "Scripts" can have their place in learning. Starting with a script of some sort doesn't mean one is going to rely on them always but is just using it as a jumping point. Some may not ever need them, some may. Just my thoughts. Cynthia Hart Lexington **Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp0003) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
[MOSAIC] Research
I was wondering if someone can help me? I remember reading about a book that was written to help teachers who are using best practices to suppor their professional decisions with research. Does anyone know what this book is called? Thanks, Brenda ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:23:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mosaic-requ...@literacyworkshop.org writes: think scripts have a place for some teachers especially if Just food for thought:) Did any of us in our journey through learning how to teach comprehension strategies and transforming our classrooms into literate rich communities ever use "Debbie Millers script"? "Did you say over and over again "So, how did that help you as a reader?" so many times that you felt it was a recording? Possibly, but I bet you moved on to even deeper conversation. You moved on with your readers and where they were in their journey. I sure did use those scripts and sometimes still do. . . especially when something is still new to me.But, I am a thinking teacher and appreciate Debbie and Lucy's words as a model and use them until they become comfortable and become my own versions. . . until I am able to move past them and mold my own words according to the readers I am with and their needs. Thank you so much Lucy for giving me the "think about reading worker script I love to use! Thank you so much to the "Learning Pad" site that has some wonderful scripting. I did not think of any of these great ideas, but used the ideas to aide my own understanding and thinking. Do we not provide scripts for our own readers in our classroom as we model conversations in reader's share each day? Eventually, they are asking these same questions of others and more importantly of themselves when they think about their thinking. "Scripts" can have their place in learning. Starting with a script of some sort doesn't mean one is going to rely on them always but is just using it as a jumping point. Some may not ever need them, some may. Just my thoughts. Cynthia Hart Lexington **Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp0003) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripted programs
Kay, Just to recap your last comments--"I would really question why direct instruction would be needed...practice, repeated readings, guided reading to scaffold, yes...but how can you make decisions for each child by following a script. Then we might as well be robots." If you want to talk about robots that is exactly what the Read Right program is. I worked in that program for 3 years and if you want more info email me off line. I agree with you and the fact we must be teaching reading in a balanced approach. There are many avenues we must take to reach all kids. Rhonda ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripted programs
In my opinion, many kids can learn phonics generalizations without direct instruction simply because the human brain is a pattern detector and generator. And why should they be "taught" what they've already learned? That said, there are others who need varying degrees of "instruction" in order to help them detect and use patterns. Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel -Original Message- From: "Kuenzl-Stenerson Kay" Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:46:08 To: Subject: [MOSAIC] scripted programs A few weeks ago someone mentioned the book Read Right! by Dee Tadlock. They said they used it for intervention ideas. I purchased the book and have been reading it. It makes a lot of sense to me. The premise in the book is that we create some reading problems in students because they actually do what we teach them to do, read word by word and pay only attention decoding, comprehension for these children is secondary because they program their brains for the word recognition they are doing. Dr. Tadlock started by studying kids that teach themselves to read and looked at what good readers do. I believe in teaching kids decoding...but as soon as a student doesn't need that crutch and begins reading for the meaning why would we keep insisting that they point to each word and decode word by word or sound by sound. Isn't that what directed instruction does. It doesn't take into account individual differences, doesn't it put emphasis on the wrong thing...decoding...not meaning? When I worked with 1st graders we always stressed working with meaning and used the phonics for one way to figure out an unknown word...not the end all. Isn't direct instruction oral exercises in sounds...couldn't that better be taught within meaning at different levels as needed by students. Some kids learn to read without any formal phonics instruction, yet they know sounds of letters, etc. How? Isn't that what we should be looking at. I would really question why direct instruction would be needed...practice, repeated readings, guided reading to scaffold, yes...but how can you make decisions for each child by following a script. Then we might as well be robots. Kay Kuenzl-Stenerson Literacy Coach Merrill Middle School Are all our students exceeding at the highest level they can succeed at? If, not, we have work to do. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
[MOSAIC] scripted programs
A few weeks ago someone mentioned the book Read Right! by Dee Tadlock. They said they used it for intervention ideas. I purchased the book and have been reading it. It makes a lot of sense to me. The premise in the book is that we create some reading problems in students because they actually do what we teach them to do, read word by word and pay only attention decoding, comprehension for these children is secondary because they program their brains for the word recognition they are doing. Dr. Tadlock started by studying kids that teach themselves to read and looked at what good readers do. I believe in teaching kids decoding...but as soon as a student doesn't need that crutch and begins reading for the meaning why would we keep insisting that they point to each word and decode word by word or sound by sound. Isn't that what directed instruction does. It doesn't take into account individual differences, doesn't it put emphasis on the wrong thing...decoding...not meaning? When I worked with 1st graders we always stressed working with meaning and used the phonics for one way to figure out an unknown word...not the end all. Isn't direct instruction oral exercises in sounds...couldn't that better be taught within meaning at different levels as needed by students. Some kids learn to read without any formal phonics instruction, yet they know sounds of letters, etc. How? Isn't that what we should be looking at. I would really question why direct instruction would be needed...practice, repeated readings, guided reading to scaffold, yes...but how can you make decisions for each child by following a script. Then we might as well be robots. Kay Kuenzl-Stenerson Literacy Coach Merrill Middle School Are all our students exceeding at the highest level they can succeed at? If, not, we have work to do. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Building comprehension of questions-was heartbreak/response to Reading Mastery
Kristin, it makes perfect sense to me. I had the same experience my 1st year as a literacy coach. My principal was not on board with any of this "fluff" A 3rd grade teacher approached me and told me that something I said in one of our study groups made him realize that he didn't know how to teach kids to read or help his struggling readers. I suggested he begin with independent reading - we took Dominie scores and organized materials accordingly - so he could guide his readers. I conferenced with some of his students (to model) --needless to say - the next fall when we got state test scores back, his class scored the highest in reading - the principal scratched his head and said I don't know what he did - when I explained - no comment - that quickly went by the wayside as it was not viewed as instruction and we quickly adopted direct instruction - every year it is another "program" - the analogy I used was -- reading is like playing football or learning to ride a bike - if you don't practice it everyday - you don't get very good at it :) sorry for the epistle - just my thoughts about independent reading >>> Kristin Mitchell 2/20/2009 9:39 am >>> Elisa and others, I've been following this conversation with much interest (as I'm sure many are!) and I think I've already piped in with this, but I need to bring it up again (it's possible I never did in the first place, I'm almost 6 months pregnant and I left my brain at about 8 weeks!). Last month's issue of The Reading Teacher had an article about SSR (which for me is simply Independent Reading...it's what kids do while I do guided reading). For me, the premise of the article was how federal dollars will most likely never be used to support something like SSR because they cannot do "medical research" to PROVE that it works. Even though I've seen test scores go up from a group that got "Guided Reading" using their SS textbooks (I wish I were kidding) their entire 5th grade year. As 6th graders they recieved Guided Reading and lots of choice independent reading time from me and their reading scores went up. While this is not "reasearch" that can prove anything, it's pretty strong evidence for me to continue how I teach reading to upper grades. Unfortunately, the feds need programs and other methods of teaching reading to be tested quantitatively. Which, is not a reality in schools. There is no fair playing field when it comes to research on teaching reading. Until "outsiders" (non educators who direct our policies whether they be gov't or buisness) realize that schools are NOT clinical places where you can have strict control groups this will always be the case. Things like Mosaic of Thought will not have support until someone can magically produce a control group of kids that can be tested "fairly." I hope I made sense! Kristin Mitchell/4th/CO "Be the change you want to see in the world" -Ghandi Each child is different and deserves different approaches to learning based on a solid philosophy backed up by pedagogical principles and research (expert and teacher). Elisa Elisa Waingort ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
[MOSAIC] a thought or two to share about scripted programs
I've read with interest your very interesting and relevant conversation about scripted programs and would like to share my thoughts. The most troubling issue, probably too obvious problem to even mention is that, by definition, no script or program or pre-planned lesson can be directly responsive to the immediate needs of the children any one of us serves. I'm also concerned about the proliferation of these programs because of what they seem to indicate about teachers' knowledge base and professionalism. What assumptions do the programs and those who purchase them make about teachers' knowledge of reading theory and therefore, their ability to make timely, relevant instructional decisions? Obviously, they assume a very uneven (some teachers have superb knowledge base and others have big holes in their theoretical background due largely to the institutions where they did pre-service and graduate work) knowledge base among our colleagues. Here's the tricky question - DO we know enough to make those decisions? Really? Of course, I believe that our colleagues who interact on this list serv and many, many of those with whom we work, do know reading theory and can make the best decisions for their students on a day -to-day basis. The question that is more troubling to me relates to those teachers, who, through no fault of their own, have not had adequate background in reading theory. What do we believe about those colleagues? Reading research is not exactly reader-friendly nor is it very accessible for many in our field. How do we access the research and make sense of it when there are, quite simply, thousands of studies over decades, some of which are well done and others not? I believe this is exactly the question that leads many schools and districts to take the easy (though far more perilous) road. They simply make up for uneven by purchasing a program. One can almost see them dusting their hands of the problem with a quick "whew, that's taken care of". This is exactly why I wrote To Understand. I believe that those of us who no longer have daily classroom responsibilities owe it to our colleagues to stay abreast of the research and to present it in a manageable (we hope!!) and understandable way to colleagues who, by virtue of their daily responsibilities with children don't have the time or access to digest dozens of studies each year. For example, the What's Essential model in To Understand is a synthesis of decades of research on the most essential elements in reading content/curriculum that distills the studies I've read over the last 20 years or so related to what we should teach when we teach reading. Others have distilled other areas of the research and created models to help practitioners understand research trends and theoretical premises. Do I wish that our profession supported opportunities for all professionals to read and digest research? Of course I do, but that simply isn't realistic and I can't imagine how it ever will be. Those of us whose practice has taken us out of the classroom simply, in my view, have a responsibility to make this information available and create opportunities to discuss it on behalf of our colleagues. Will knowledge of the research lead to the demise of these programs? Of course it will not, but it will arm teachers with the knowledge base they need to argue thoughtfully and professionally with district policy makers when they are edging toward the decision to purchase a program. If we can provide the knowledge support for teachers to make their case I believe we can stave off many of these troubling decisions. I apologize for the length of this missive, but I feel strongly about the topic you're discussing now and wanted to share my thinking. With deep respect for all of you, ellin keene ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Building comprehension of questions-was heartbreak/response to Reading Mastery
It isn't that the feds NEED programs and other methods of teaching reading to be testing quantitatively. It is that they WANT them to be. When the National Reading Panel met, they started out by systematically throwing out all research that didn't meet their overall, already-established phonics-first philosophy, then went on to use terms like "scientifically proven" to drive home their goal of turning classrooms back into what they remembered from the 1950's, with the teacher in charge of "delivering instruction" and turning Whole Language into a divisive, politicized term based on lies, myths, and, at best, misunderstanding of the process. NCLB functions under the philosophy of a "daddy knows best" kind of paradigm, where everything is "either/or" and "good/bad" and children are reduced to numbers, rankings, and ratings while teachers are demeaned, deprofessionalized, and defeated, perhaps in the hope that public school as we know it will bite the dust and privatization can rise up in the education field. All this from an administration which consistently altered scientific research in other areas, such as global warming and environmental standards, in order to reward big business with more money and more power. In the education field, big business has been rewarded mightily by NCLB. Follow the money. As for "scripted instruction" well, frankly, I think the phrase is an oxymoron. Renee On Feb 20, 2009, at 6:39 AM, Kristin Mitchell wrote: Elisa and others, I've been following this conversation with much interest (as I'm sure many are!) and I think I've already piped in with this, but I need to bring it up again (it's possible I never did in the first place, I'm almost 6 months pregnant and I left my brain at about 8 weeks!). Last month's issue of The Reading Teacher had an article about SSR (which for me is simply Independent Reading...it's what kids do while I do guided reading). For me, the premise of the article was how federal dollars will most likely never be used to support something like SSR because they cannot do "medical research" to PROVE that it works. Even though I've seen test scores go up from a group that got "Guided Reading" using their SS textbooks (I wish I were kidding) their entire 5th grade year. As 6th graders they recieved Guided Reading and lots of choice independent reading time from me and their reading scores went up. While this is not "reasearch" that can prove anything, it's pretty strong evidence for me to continue how I teach reading to upper grades. Unfortunately, the feds need programs and other methods of teaching reading to be tested quantitatively. Which, is not a reality in schools. There is no fair playing field when it comes to research on teaching reading. Until "outsiders" (non educators who direct our policies whether they be gov't or buisness) realize that schools are NOT clinical places where you can have strict control groups this will always be the case. Things like Mosaic of Thought will not have support until someone can magically produce a control group of kids that can be tested "fairly." I hope I made sense! Kristin Mitchell/4th/CO "Be the change you want to see in the world" -Ghandi Each child is different and deserves different approaches to learning based on a solid philosophy backed up by pedagogical principles and research (expert and teacher). Elisa Elisa Waingort ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Jennifer's ? about her new student
Wow, I'm not sure without seeing her in action...but it sounds to me like some work in just social conversations is something she needs to experience with before being able to apply it to reading comp. Do you do any kind of morning meeting? Or do you have an outlet for modeling social conversations? (maybe even just as you greet kids in the morning you could stop her and ask a quick couple of questions) From there you could transition her to questions in other areas... Unless I'm misunderstanding your question/concern. Good luck with her, I look forward to what other's have to say! Kristin Mitchell/4th/CO "Be the change you want to see in the world" -Ghandi I want to teach her how to comprehend questions and was thinking about applying comprehension strategies to the genre of questions. Can you all help me think this through? Jennifer ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Building comprehension of questions-was heartbreak/response to Reading Mastery
Elisa and others, I've been following this conversation with much interest (as I'm sure many are!) and I think I've already piped in with this, but I need to bring it up again (it's possible I never did in the first place, I'm almost 6 months pregnant and I left my brain at about 8 weeks!). Last month's issue of The Reading Teacher had an article about SSR (which for me is simply Independent Reading...it's what kids do while I do guided reading). For me, the premise of the article was how federal dollars will most likely never be used to support something like SSR because they cannot do "medical research" to PROVE that it works. Even though I've seen test scores go up from a group that got "Guided Reading" using their SS textbooks (I wish I were kidding) their entire 5th grade year. As 6th graders they recieved Guided Reading and lots of choice independent reading time from me and their reading scores went up. While this is not "reasearch" that can prove anything, it's pretty strong evidence for me to continue how I teach reading to upper grades. Unfortunately, the feds need programs and other methods of teaching reading to be tested quantitatively. Which, is not a reality in schools. There is no fair playing field when it comes to research on teaching reading. Until "outsiders" (non educators who direct our policies whether they be gov't or buisness) realize that schools are NOT clinical places where you can have strict control groups this will always be the case. Things like Mosaic of Thought will not have support until someone can magically produce a control group of kids that can be tested "fairly." I hope I made sense! Kristin Mitchell/4th/CO "Be the change you want to see in the world" -Ghandi Each child is different and deserves different approaches to learning based on a solid philosophy backed up by pedagogical principles and research (expert and teacher). Elisa Elisa Waingort ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Re (Mosaic) Heartbreak
Hi Everyone, Like so many of you I've been reading this thread with great interest. I'm in the school of thought about teachers as decision makers but I'd also like to train my teachers in pedagogy so that they make informed decisions (that sounds strange I know). When Teachers College was one of the consulting agencies to unify language arts instruction to balanced literacy NYC they offered scripted lessons. I think they were offered as a means to institutionalize balanced literacy and as guides. But between the pressures of reform and administrators' whatever, scripted lessons became well scripted lessons and the basis for evaluation checklists. There was a huge backlash here and a rethinking of intent. So this conversation is extremely enlightening. Thanks. As some know, I'm editing an anthology of essays on the Pressures of Teaching. Would anyone like to write someting on the pressures of using scripted lessons? Or on when a program suddenly changes. Would anyone like to write an essay. Does anyone know a math or science or social studies teacher who would like to write about the pressures of teaching in the content areas. In any case, I would love to hear from you. Please e-mail me off list if you're interested. Thank you! Maureen Robins mrobinss...@gmail.com On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:22 AM, wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I having been watching the posts, and I love what Laurie and Amy said about > scripted programs. For some students, Corrective reading or Reading Mastery > are the only programs that work. I also like what they said about scripted > programs being a tool and how you need to know the students and fit the > needs of all students. I think scripts have a place for some teachers > especially if they are new to teaching. Most of us have years of teaching > and practice, but for new people they help to start. It takes a while to get > things under your belt, and the script does guide them to some extent. > Unfortunately not all teachers take the time to do strategy work. We are > supposed to use the script, and I do (partially) - but I have found that I > can fit the strategy work in with it. Ellin's work and the ideas of this > listserv have become such a part of what I do, it is just a natural part of > my teaching now so I fit it all in together. > > Linda > > Amy wrote: > > "The script cannot and will not ever replace what a teacher can do. Again, > it is > > an empowering tool if you know how to make it work for the kids. But it > is not > > the script or the program per se that is teaching the kids to > readit's the > > teacher making it work for the kids. " > Laurie wrote: > > Hello All, > > > > > > > > I have something very simple to say in response to the recent thread on > the > listserve regarding a certain reading program: It is not programs that > teach, > but teachers who are well informed practitioners who teach. Staff > development > is a key component, but, in my opinion, scripted programs assume that > teachers > don't know enough about their subject matter to teach it effectively. From > where > did this assumption come? Definitely something to consider, especially in > light > of the incredible research that has generated the likes of this listserve. > Thank > you Elin Keene and Company. > > > > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Building comprehension of questions-was heartbreak/response to Reading Mastery
Amy, Thanks for the research link suggestions. I will look them up. I think the big difference is whether the developers of Direct Instruction programs, who also produced their own research saying their programs work, made profits from their programs based on their research results and marketing ploys. Someone else who has a better handle of the research out there might want to address this question: what does the independent research say about Direct Instruction programs and, since you brought it up, Reading Recovery? Also, I don't know that Stephanie Goudvis, et al are making any claims as far as test gains, etc because people are applying their ideas in their classroom. BTW, Strategies that Work is not a program. Unfortunately, my experience with proponents of DI is that they see everything as a program. Life is broader than that. Teachers are smarter than that. A program, especially one that needs to be followed with "fidelity" (what the heck does that mean???), is an insult to teachers' intelligence and professionalism. While you claim that teachers may deviate from the script, children are different and throw us curve balls every once in a while, you imply that this is the exception rather than the norm. To me, I want it to be the norm. Each child is different and deserves different approaches to learning based on a solid philosophy backed up by pedagogical principles and research (expert and teacher). Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ Second, (and this is a bit more harsh, but true non-the-less) that someone profits financially from selling their well researched books and workshops. Food for thought. I hope this information helps. Amy ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Building comprehension of questions-was heartbreak/response to R...
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