Re: X-Face Header in mutt

[Ralf Hildebrandt]

On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 01:41:09PM +0700, budsz wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> How to make some header like this:
> 
> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i
> X-Face: 
>`mQ{d28CbwWv2Qge.eJdYX5\Dr$Fs>s'dQuB{7i,t`)a.\Z64~"c&oZ5hPqb?ckj4>^5Zo!?R>oJ;:Ff`P.z"Vmg+-B4]5)e9vs{CH%$5~}+3bV~U-t:t!-+4*gX/qEY0{r\18/'8c!n;1%v?'|An_XwK`wy4=ue^49|.

X-Face Header in mutt

[budsz]

Hi,

How to make some header like this:

User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i
X-Face: 
`mQ{d28CbwWv2Qge.eJdYX5\Dr$Fs>s'dQuB{7i,t`)a.\Z64~"c&oZ5hPqb?ckj4>^5Zo!?R>oJ;:Ff`P.z"Vmg+-B4]5)e9vs{CH%$5~}+3bV~U-t:t!-+4*gX/qEY0{r\18/'8c!n;1%v?'|An_XwK`wy4=ue^49|.


msg23508/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Mutt IMAP -- how good?

[David Rock]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 09:37:55PM -0500, Samuel Padgett wrote:
> I'm considering switching to IMAP.  How good is Mutt as an IMAP
> client?  I'm currently just accessing local mbox files directly,
> but I'd like to be able to access my mail from other machines.

I use IMAP to access the Exchange server at work and have been pretty
happy with it. You MUST be using a more current mutt, though (1.2.5i is
SEVERELY lacking in IMAP support)

-- 
David Rock
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



msg23507/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: tool to decode mime encoded lines?

[Andy Spiegl]

Hi Cameron,

> On 13:53 13 Nov 2001, Andy Spiegl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> | Just a quick question:
> | Is there a unix tool to convert something like this
> |  Subject: Para =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Carlos_Lavalle_?=
> | into this
> |  Subject: Para José Carlos Lavalle
> 

> Procmail can be used for this:
> 
>   : 0hc
>   * ^Subject:.*=\?
>   | sed '/^Subject:/s/=?[^?]*?Q?\([^?]*\)?=/\1/g'

But this just extracts the encoded part, in that case
 Jos=E9_Carlos_Lavalle_

That looks better, but still isn't very readable. :-)
 Andy.

-- 
 Dr. Andy Spiegl, Radio Marañón, Jaén, Perú
 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 URL: http://spiegl.de, http://radiomaranon.org.pe
 PGP/GPG: see headers
  o  _ _ _
  --- __o   __o  /\_   _ \\o  (_)\__/o  (_)  -o)
  - _`\<,__`\<,__>(_) (_)/<_\_| \   _|/' \/   /\\
   (_)/ (_)  (_)/ (_)  (_)(_)   (_)(_)'  _\o__\_v
 
 Maintenance-free:  When it breaks, it can't be fixed...

Re: maildir over mbox?

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 09:26:55PM -0500 I heard the voice of
Derek D. Martin, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Um...  Oh, are you European?  I seem to recall that Europeans switch
> the meaning of '.' and ',' in numbers, as compared to us US types...
> So perhaps you meant eighty-four thousand five hundred thirty-three
> messages?
> 
> In which case I would ask, dude, why?  I thought my counterpart at
> work was a pack rat...  ;-)

Hmmm
Well, my current archives have...   *does some quick scripting*
(ttyp4):{920}% cat temp | dc
817181

So not quite a million messages, but still far more inodes than I'd care
to eat on /home.

I rotate my folders manually every few weeks; generally, once a mailbox
(in Maildir, being an active mailbox) reached 4000-7000 messages, and
starts taking more than 6 or 7 seconds to open, I tag-all and drop it
into a mbox, then slot that mbox into my archives.

So, does that make ME a packrat?   ;)
For reference:
(ttyp4):{921}% du -sh .
2.5G.



-- 
Matthew Fuller (MF4839) |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unix Systems Administrator  |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Specializing in FreeBSD |http://www.over-yonder.net/

"The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I
  haven't figured out how to light the middle yet"

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Brian Clark]

* Rob 'Feztaa' Park ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 21. 2002 20:05]:

> TheBat! is by far the best windows mail program I've seen (unless mutt
> is available for windows and I don't know about it). It sure beats
> Netscape Mail or LookOut, anyway.

Yes, it's a good client. I used SecureBat! with the iKey token for quite
a while. I'd say a lot of its qualities are Mutt-like. As far as Mutt
and Windows, IIRC, one can use it with Cygwin. But, using that stuff in
Windows is kind of like using electrical tape to stop a leaky pipe. 

[...]

> It's more than just AOL and Outlook. I have a friend who uses webmail
> (on his mac), and I often receive replies that look like this:

> > Ah, yes I have seen that with AOL clients. But, I've seen it with
> Outlook users as well. I guess that
> tells me that people are picking up what their friends do. I guess
> It Is So in those circles.

The version I spoke of looks like:

<>

> It's wretched! Ugh!

Oh God yes. *twitch*

-- 
Brian Clark | Avoiding the general public since 1805!
Fingerprint: 07CE FA37 8DF6 A109 8119 076B B5A2 E5FB E4D0 C7C8
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Thomas Hurst]

No, the most annoying way is to indent using spaces, with Outlook style
replies (i.e, 2-3 lines right at the top of the message).  Nice huh? :)

Several times I've found myself reading the "quoted" text thinking it's
the actual reply and wondering why it looks so familiar..


* Brian Clark ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

Then, there's also the people that like to open a quoted paragraph
with << and close it with >>, with no prefix in between. IMO, that's
the most annoying thing I've ever seen.

(er, just pretend the *entire* message, including sigs, are included
too, I can't quite bring myself to actually do that :)

-- 
Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -  http://www.aagh.net/
-
I was in Vegas last week. I was at the roulette table, having a
lengthy argument about what I considered an Odd number.
-- Steven Wright

Re: maildir over mbox?

[Thomas Hurst]

* Alexander Skwar ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> With mutt, I get the same kind of results.  However, other MUAs behave
> differently.  For instance, when I did the testing, Evolution opened
> the same Maildir way faster than it handled the mbox file (which
> contained the same messages). mutt seems to be *extremely* optimized
> for mbox.

Evolution is aimed at maildir, and so does metadata caching.  Probably
worth a look by anyone interested in adding similar functionality to
mutt (hello Mr Elkins :)

And yes, mutt's optimized for mbox style stuff, in that it does minimal
writes 'n' stuff which lesser clients probably don't. 'n' stuff.

> reiserfs.

I wonder what sort of interesting things you could do with mailfs..
having the underlying filesystem know something about the format of
messages and how they're accessed would probably be good for those users
who absolutely demand support for insanely huge mailspools.

> The Maildir/mbox I tested, had 84.533 messages and about 321 MB.
> Opening the mbox beast took 2:53 minutes, while opening the same
> converted to Maildir (with mutt) took more than 25 minutes.  Go
> figure...

I think the obvious answer here is "don't use mailboxes of any format
that big and expect any sort of decent performance outside some very
specific situations" :)

Metadata caching would probably be good on really large mboxes too, but
tbh I think the effort would be better spent on a decent mail archiving
tool that handles all the different formats, compression etc, so us
must-not-delete-anything obsessives can keep our working folders small
:)



-- 
Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -  http://www.aagh.net/
-
Vax Vobiscum

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Thomas Hurst]

_Replying to a message_

By:  Rob 'Feztaa' Park <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:  Mutt Users' List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On:  Monday, January 21, 2002, 16:54:47 -0700
Re:  blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

> Alas! Nick Wilson spake thus:
>
> > * On 21-01-02 at 23:17 Brian Foley said

> I think it looks much better on one line, like I changed yours to
> above.

I agree, although I question the actual utility of dates and times in
attributions;  if people need that sort of detail shouldn't they look up
the thread?

> Also, you could try to be creative with your attribution, like me or
> others here.

Like mine?  It's only 6 lines, and it's *so* useful.  Honest..

-- 
Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -  http://www.aagh.net/
-
INTEREST:
What borrowers pay, lenders receive, stockholders own, and
burned out employees must feign.

Mutt IMAP -- how good?

[Samuel Padgett]

I'm considering switching to IMAP.  How good is Mutt as an IMAP
client?  I'm currently just accessing local mbox files directly,
but I'd like to be able to access my mail from other machines.

Thanks,
Sam

Re: maildir over mbox?

[Derek D. Martin]

At some point hitherto, Alexander Skwar hath spake thusly:
> The Maildir/mbox I tested, had 84.533 messages and about 321 MB.  Opening

Eh?  How does one have .533 messages in a mailbox?  Perhaps fractional
messages are some feature of Maildir that I was unaware of?

Um...  Oh, are you European?  I seem to recall that Europeans switch
the meaning of '.' and ',' in numbers, as compared to us US types...
So perhaps you meant eighty-four thousand five hundred thirty-three
messages?

In which case I would ask, dude, why?  I thought my counterpart at
work was a pack rat...  ;-)


-- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org



msg23499/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Derek D. Martin]

At some point hitherto, René Clerc hath spake thusly:
> I've finally come to my senses; changed from '| ' to '> '. Now it's up
> to that other pagan, David, to change ;)

And there was much rejoicing...  ;-)


-- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org



msg23498/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Folder Format

[Knute]

On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Nick Croft wrote:

> Mutt Users,

> I'm trying to get a uniform look and feel to mutt on 3 machines, all running
> Debian. Version is 1.3.25i.

> The folder_format is set to the standard
>   "%F %-8.8u %-8.8g %d %8s %N %f"
> on all three machines, yet the %N value only shows up on one of them
> when I do c ? to the see the folders. Obviously it's very useful to be
> able to see which folders have new mail in them.

> Is there another value to be set to get this to work on the 2 machines
> which don't show it?  

This may sound rather trite, but are you sure that there are new emails
on the other 2 machines when you try it?

-- 
Knute

You live, You die.  Enjoy the interval!
-- Clarence

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Rob 'Feztaa' Park]

Alas! Brian Clark spake thus:

> I've used clients like TheBat! before that do it as you've pointed out
> below:
>
> > BC>This line is quoted text>
> > BC>This line is quoted text>

TheBat! is by far the best windows mail program I've seen (unless mutt
is available for windows and I don't know about it). It sure beats
Netscape Mail or LookOut, anyway.

Of course, that's like saying "I have the best tasting poo out of
everybody here!" ;)

> > This seems to be an AOL mailer thing.  It happened a lot on a
> > couple of film mail lists I'm on, always from AOL addresses.
> 
> Ah, yes I have seen that with AOL clients. But, I've seen it with
> Outlook users as well. I guess that tells me that people are picking up
> what their friends do. I guess It Is So in those circles.

It's more than just AOL and Outlook. I have a friend who uses webmail
(on his mac), and I often receive replies that look like this:

> Ah, yes I have seen that with AOL clients. But, I've seen it with
Outlook users as well. I guess that
tells me that people are picking up what their friends do. I guess
It Is So in those circles.

Or even like this:

> Ah, yes I have seen that with AOL clients.
But, I've seen it with Outlook users as
well. I guess that tells me that people are
picking up what their friends do. I guess It
Is So in those circles.
>>>

It's wretched! Ugh!

-- 
Rob 'Feztaa' Park
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
"Software is like sex: It's better when it's free."
-- Linus Torvalds, from FSF T-shirt



msg23496/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: anonymous CVS access

[Cameron Simpson]

On 23:05 09 Nov 2001, Thomas Roessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| On 2001-11-09 13:03:36 -0600, Peter Horst wrote:
| >Is anonymous checkout of the mutt CVS allowed?  If so, what is the
| >procedure?  I couldn't find a single reference to it in the list
| >archives, and the directions given at the Sourceforge site don't work.
|
| Have a look at the main README file.

And just so it's in the list archives:

cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/roessler/cvs login
cvs -z3 -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/roessler/cvs co mutt

The password is "anonymous".
-- 
Cameron Simpson, DoD#743[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.zip.com.au/~cs/

If the conjecture `You would rather I had not disturbed you
by sending you this.' is correct, you may add it to the list of
uncomfortable truths. - Edsgar Dijkstra

Re: tool to decode mime encoded lines?

[Cameron Simpson]

On 13:53 13 Nov 2001, Andy Spiegl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| Just a quick question:
| Is there a unix tool to convert something like this
|  Subject: Para =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Carlos_Lavalle_?=
| into this
|  Subject: Para José Carlos Lavalle

Procmail can be used for this:

: 0hc
* ^Subject:.*=\?
| sed '/^Subject:/s/=?[^?]*?Q?\([^?]*\)?=/\1/g'

at the front of your .procmailrc should filter the headers of email containing
that construct.

That's UNTESTED, btw.

Replace the first "[^?]*" with, say, "iso-8859-1" to be more picky about the font.
-- 
Cameron Simpson, DoD#743[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.zip.com.au/~cs/

We're supposed to be the guys with Freedom and Democracy right?
Well, how come the Russians get to shell their Parliament and we don't
get to do it to ours?
Mike Holmes, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: maildir over mbox?

[Christian Ordig]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:37:01PM +0100, Alexander Skwar wrote:
> running reiserfs.
well ... as tests showed, ReiserFS seems to be a _really_ slow
beast when it comes to read Maildir folders ... tried with Ext2/3?
Should be really faster.

-- 
Christian Ordig
Germany

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Jonathan Irving]

Brian Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [21 Jan 2002 19:04 -0500]:
> * Jonathan Irving ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 21. 2002 18:57]:
> > Emacs and Pine both support per-message quote characters.  I
> > think the idea is to choose something that identifies the person,
> > like:
> 
> Hehe, no no, I meant *that exact quote prefix* :-) It'd take me forever
> to find the thread in the archives because I wouldn't know what to look
> for, but it was the thread where someone was picking on Dave's (%) quote
> prefix. (I gather this isn't the first time someone on the list has
> picked on him about that prefix. ;-))

Yeah, I remember the thread.  I didn't realize that there were
clients out there that did stuff like that.  Stupid AND
patronizing.


> > > Then, there's also the people that like to open a quoted
> > > paragraph with << and close it with >>, with no prefix in
> > > between. IMO, that's the most annoying thing I've ever seen.
> 
> > This seems to be an AOL mailer thing.  It happened a lot on a
> > couple of film mail lists I'm on, always from AOL addresses.
> 
> Ah, yes I have seen that with AOL clients. But, I've seen it with
> Outlook users as well. I guess that tells me that people are picking up
> what their friends do. I guess It Is So in those circles.

Actually, it's literally correct (in the sense that quoting text
using "quotation marks" is correct) in France I believe, although
there's a single character rendition that's more often used.
It would be analogous to ``closed with''.

I'm sure it wasn't conceived as i18n support in this context
though 8-I
-- 
http://www.epic.org - Electronic Privacy Information Center



msg23492/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Brian Clark]

* Jonathan Irving ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 21. 2002 18:57]:

[...]

> Emacs and Pine both support per-message quote characters.  I
> think the idea is to choose something that identifies the person,
> like:

Hehe, no no, I meant *that exact quote prefix* :-) It'd take me forever
to find the thread in the archives because I wouldn't know what to look
for, but it was the thread where someone was picking on Dave's (%) quote
prefix. (I gather this isn't the first time someone on the list has
picked on him about that prefix. ;-))

I've used clients like TheBat! before that do it as you've pointed out
below:

> BC>This line is quoted text>
> BC>This line is quoted text>

Now /that's/ OK with me. I probably made that a bit confusing.

> > Then, there's also the people that like to open a quoted
> > paragraph with << and close it with >>, with no prefix in
> > between. IMO, that's the most annoying thing I've ever seen.

> This seems to be an AOL mailer thing.  It happened a lot on a
> couple of film mail lists I'm on, always from AOL addresses.

Ah, yes I have seen that with AOL clients. But, I've seen it with
Outlook users as well. I guess that tells me that people are picking up
what their friends do. I guess It Is So in those circles.

-- 
Brian Clark | Avoiding the general public since 1805!
Fingerprint: 07CE FA37 8DF6 A109 8119 076B B5A2 E5FB E4D0 C7C8
Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art.

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Jonathan Irving]

Brian Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [21 Jan 2002 17:56 -0500]:
> I've seen something like this on this list in the past, *in
> jest*, in a similar thread:
> 
>This line is quoted text>
>This line is quoted text>

Emacs and Pine both support per-message quote characters.  I
think the idea is to choose something that identifies the person,
like:

BC>This line is quoted text>
BC>This line is quoted text>


> Then, there's also the people that like to open a quoted
> paragraph with << and close it with >>, with no prefix in
> between. IMO, that's the most annoying thing I've ever seen.

This seems to be an AOL mailer thing.  It happened a lot on a
couple of film mail lists I'm on, always from AOL addresses.


> It seems they're all LookOut users as well. Where the heck
> people get that crap is beyond me.

Simple: defaults.  Default behaviour is what most non-technical
users end up with.  I've heard it called "flashing 12:00
syndrome", referencing the inability of most over-12-year-olds to
program a VCR.
-- 
http://www.epic.org - Electronic Privacy Information Center



msg23490/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Rob 'Feztaa' Park]

Alas! Nick Wilson spake thus:

> * On 21-01-02 at 23:17 Brian Foley said
>
> > Some of the more extreme past members of this list would have
> > blasted you out of the water for: a) using a two-line attribution at
> > the top of all your quotes
>
> Oops, I just thought it looked neater as it was a little long.  I
> don't think it does any harm though eh?

I think it looks much better on one line, like I changed yours to
above. Also, you could try to be creative with your attribution, like me
or others here.

-- 
Rob 'Feztaa' Park
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
"I'd rather listen to [Isaac] Newton than to [Microsoft's] Mundie. He
may have been dead for almost three hundred years, but despite that
he stinks up the room less."
-- Linus Torvalds (regarding MS's rant on open source)



msg23489/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Rob 'Feztaa' Park]

Alas! Nick Wilson spake thus:
> How do you tell if you are sending to a blind user?

Are you blind??

-- 
Rob 'Feztaa' Park
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
People who think MS-DOS and Windows are the slickest thing since
sliced butter should be forced to wear a sign stating "This mind
intentionally left blank."



msg23488/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Folder Format

[Nick Croft]

Mutt Users,

I'm trying to get a uniform look and feel to mutt on 3 machines, all running
Debian. Version is 1.3.25i.

The folder_format is set to the standard
  "%F %-8.8u %-8.8g %d %8s %N %f"
on all three machines, yet the %N value only shows up on one of them
when I do c ? to the see the folders. Obviously it's very useful to be
able to see which folders have new mail in them.

Is there another value to be set to get this to work on the 2 machines
which don't show it?  

Thanks,
Nick

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Brian Clark]

* Nick Wilson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 21. 2002 17:17]:

> You think that'll happen? I like the @ idea but I think && or could be
> pretty bad too.

Oh no, that's not the worst. I've seen something like this on this list
in the past, *in jest*, in a similar thread:

   This line is quoted text>
   This line is quoted text>
   This line is quoted text>
   This line is quoted text>

Then, there's also the people that like to open a quoted paragraph with
<< and close it with >>, with no prefix in between. IMO, that's the most
annoying thing I've ever seen.

It seems they're all LookOut users as well. Where the heck people get
that crap is beyond me.

-- 
Brian Clark | Avoiding the general public since 1805!
Fingerprint: 07CE FA37 8DF6 A109 8119 076B B5A2 E5FB E4D0 C7C8
Job Placement: Telling your boss what he can do with your job.

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 23:17 
* Brian Foley said

> I got this email, did you bounce it to mutt-users as well?

Yes, sorry about that I thought it would just end up in the thread where
it belonged.

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TJn/HpvrrTa6L5oRAhMMAJ9ugkN/Jnxkjg8c0ZnbPvYGG3aBywCfeNLn
//fiWBuJIXlFqdWas4lbBHw=
=J3aL
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 23:17 
* Brian Foley said

> 
> Some of the more extreme past members of this list would have blasted
> you out of the water for:
> a) using a two-line attribution at the top of all your quotes

Oops, I just thought it looked neater as it was a little long.
I don't think it does any harm though eh?

> b) using a non standard sig (not delimited with "-- " and more than 4
> lines)
> 
> I dont take issue with you for points a and b above, but it would make
> you emails "neater" (but that is a highly subjective term).

You hit the nail on the head there alright. I said somewhere way back
in the misty and regretable past of this thread that neatness was very
much a matter of opinion and that we could probably only hope to agree
on the extremes and meet somewhere within a reasonable tolerance zone.
(something like that anyway) and this thread has been a real eye opener
in many ways!


- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TJUJHpvrrTa6L5oRAnF8AJ9ZtK7dhsrJMTdkB2Le59tCMUzN1ACgruV0
nArZU4AD1dnfvgeclNkV4FM=
=RheJ
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Nick Wilson]

* On 21-01-02 at 23:04 
* René Clerc said

> * David T-G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [21-01-2002 18:56]:
> 
> [to Nick]
> > You should change your quote char.  I'd find '@' particularly annoying,
> > and nobody is using it yet.

Reckon there could be a reason there David. Hehe.

> 
> I've finally come to my senses; changed from '| ' to '> '. Now it's up
> to that other pagan, David, to change ;)

You think that'll happen?
I like the @ idea but I think && or could be pretty bad too.

-- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com






msg23483/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Brian Foley]

* Nick Wilson [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] on [21-01-02] wrote:
> Seeing as the sender of these next few lines didn't seem to want to send
> them to the list. Here they are in all thier glory.

I got this email, did you bounce it to mutt-users as well?

> I'm sorry guys but I feel that my messages are usually trimmed quite
> thoughtfully. I have no reason to think that I'm doing anything wrong
> and on that basis I will carry on as I am.

Some of the more extreme past members of this list would have blasted
you out of the water for:
a) using a two-line attribution at the top of all your quotes
b) using a non standard sig (not delimited with "-- " and more than 4
lines)

I dont take issue with you for points a and b above, but it would make
you emails "neater" (but that is a highly subjective term).

On another note, I thank you for using "> " as your quote char.  As
regards quoting, just pare it down to the minimum, there are certain
people on this list who go out of their way to quote and reply to even
the most trivial words in a post.  I think this is wrong, but you dont
do that.  Good man.

Brian

Re: validating traditional signitures

[alpha]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 09:32:49AM +0100, René Clerc wrote:
> > that I'm not getting the little 's' flag in the index and I don't seem
> > to be able to validate the signiture in anyway.
> Check out:
> Pcheck-traditional-pgp

Ok, and how about validating 'normal' (mime) signatures on demand?
I've found on the net some very clumsy macro to turn pgp_verify_sig on
and off again, but I wonder if there is some more elegant way to
achieve this.

Thanks in advance

-- 

   _.|._ |_  _.  |  Adam Byrtek, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  (_|||_)| |(_|  |  gg 1802819
  | 

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[René Clerc]

* David T-G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [21-01-2002 18:56]:

[to Nick]
> You should change your quote char.  I'd find '@' particularly annoying,
> and nobody is using it yet.

I've finally come to my senses; changed from '| ' to '> '. Now it's up
to that other pagan, David, to change ;)

-- 
René Clerc  - ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

Doing more with less.
-Buckminster Fuller



msg23480/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: maildir over mbox?

[Alexander Skwar]

So sprach »Christian Ordig« am 2002-01-21 um 11:22:04 +0100 :
> opening times might be ... but think about updating times and the

Well, that's true, however, updating times aren't *that* important for
me.  When I receive new mail, I let procmail sort it into appropriate
mailfiles; each list has got its own mailfile plus some other personal
files.  Now, when new mail arrives, mutt notices that there's new mail
in one of the files, and I'll change to that file.  So I find myself
*very* often opening mailfiles.  And since the difference is that
tremendously bad for Maildir on reiserfs on my machine, I can't stand to
wait that extremely long.

Futher, updating times in mbox with mutt aren't that bad, after all.
This may be due to the fact, that I much more often delete messages
which are at the end of the file, which seems to be faster than
deleteing huge/a lot of messages from the middle of the mbox.

> "no locking needed" goodies :-)

I don't use NFS, so I don't need this goody.

Alexander Skwar
-- 
How to quote:   http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english)
Homepage:   http://www.iso-top.de  | Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   iso-top.de - Die günstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen
   Uptime: 7 days 0 hours 12 minutes

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 22:29 
* Nick Wilson said

Seeing as the sender of these next few lines didn't seem to want to send
them to the list. Here they are in all thier glory.

- ---

Funny that your reply on 'not trimming' was hardly (if at all) trimmed

> I'm very poor sighted and as a result there are many things I wish
> people did that they don't that would make my life easier. 

Yea, like it might be nice if every could read nicely trimmed messages. :>

- 

I'm sorry guys but I feel that my messages are usually trimmed quite
thoughtfully. I have no reason to think that I'm doing anything wrong
and on that basis I will carry on as I am.

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TIxlHpvrrTa6L5oRAvIpAJwLjE/1ipBJVMGu0I9QpSg68ueW9ACeKwJk
DwUBPCk9R/XwiLIG/rH84IQ=
=tDXh
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: maildir over mbox?

[Alexander Skwar]

So sprach »Benjamin Michotte« am 2002-01-20 um 19:33:10 +0100 :
> > What are the benefits of using one type over the other?
> opening a mbox with ± 7000 mails : less than 10 seconds.
> opening the same in Maildir : 3 minutes...

With mutt, I get the same kind of results.  However, other MUAs behave
differently.  For instance, when I did the testing, Evolution opened the
same Maildir way faster than it handled the mbox file (which contained
the same messages).  mutt seems to be *extremely* optimized for mbox.

FWIW, I just did some testing using mutt 1.3.25i on my Athlon 800 MHz,
786 MB RAM, and a IBM DDRS-39130W SCSI UW hard drive running reiserfs.
The Maildir/mbox I tested, had 84.533 messages and about 321 MB.  Opening
the mbox beast took 2:53 minutes, while opening the same converted to
Maildir (with mutt) took more than 25 minutes.  Go figure...

Alexander Skwar
-- 
How to quote:   http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english)
Homepage:   http://www.iso-top.de  | Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   iso-top.de - Die günstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen
   Uptime: 6 days 1 hour 14 minutes

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 22:15 
* Cameron Simpson said

> | 
> | How do you tell if you are sending to a blind user?
> 
> You can't. It's rude anyway. The amount of time you spend trimming stuff

Rude to do what? I don't follow you.

> to just the relevant stuff is _more_ than outweghed by the time saved
> to the list members as a whole, not to mention the readability of the
> mail archives and everything else.

As I've said half a dozen times in this thread  I *whole heartedly* support and 
practice the trimming of list mail.

I'm for it.
Deal me in.
I agree.
Help I'm losing my mind!
Cold beans 'aint hot.

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TIe0HpvrrTa6L5oRAnODAJ46mmHskHZzrSmltC+w0/OhgTEclACgrD1E
S/oGsUObUD/nUm1bERMcLJs=
=tRKm
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: new mail in folders

[Cameron Simpson]

On 09:59 21 Jan 2002, Carl B. Constantine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| * Cameron Simpson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
| > | > Anyone have ideas on how to get this to work? (NOTE: my home machine
| > | > uses BASH and I'm using tcsh here at work if that makes any difference).
| > | 
| > | That's the problem, the `for file in...` bit is run with whatever your
| > | default shell is, and that's won't work in tcsh, since it's bash (well, sh)
| > | syntax. [...]
| > Or set $SHELL to /bin/sh (or bash, if present) in a wrapper around mutt
| > when invoking it.
| 
| well, even running BASH and then running mutt does not seem to solve the
| problem.

You misread me. Do this:

#!/bin/sh
# Mutt wrapper.
SHELL=/bin/sh; export SHELL
exec real-mutt ${1+"$@"}

Just _running_ a bash doesn't set $SHELL (which is the variable used to
express your interactive shell preference). otherwise horrible horrible
things would happen.

Personally, I think mutt _should_ pass `blah...` to /bin/sh. That's what
most things do ,like make et al - this isn't interactive shell stuff, it's
programming, and the stanard UNIX shell programming language is /bin/sh.
-- 
Cameron Simpson, DoD#743[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.zip.com.au/~cs/

When connecting, faxes send out a series of tones which, in the world of fax
machines, apparently say something like 'Wake up, roll over and make love to
me.'- Tequila Rapide

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Cameron Simpson]

On 14:45 21 Jan 2002, Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| > That would still leave you with a truckload of repeated and mostly
| > irrelevent cruft, and not only for someone using a screenreader.
| > 
| > Being able to skip quotes is no excuse not to trim them; not caring
| > whether people will simply ignore your message because it appears to
| > have no content isn't either.
| 
| How do you tell if you are sending to a blind user?

You can't. It's rude anyway. The amount of time you spend trimming stuff
to just the relevant stuff is _more_ than outweghed by the time saved
to the list members as a whole, not to mention the readability of the
mail archives and everything else.
-- 
Cameron Simpson, DoD#743[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.zip.com.au/~cs/

Too much of a good thing is never enough.   - Luba

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Preben Randhol]

"Derek D. Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 21/01/2002 (18:05) :
> See above where Preben said this is not a minority problem.  He was
> refering to the fact that it is a much BROADER problem than just one
> that affects minorities.  Your comment is irrelevant to that argument.
> (Preben: please correct me if I'm mistaken.)

You are not mistaken :-)

Preben
-- 
 ()   Join the worldwide campaign to protect fundamental human rights.
'||}
{||'   http://www.amnesty.org/

Re: maildir over mbox?

[Andy Davidson]

I wrote:
>%  And it appears that the archive mailboxes *have* to be mboxes.
>% If I try to save a message to an existing maildir folder, mutt objects.

At 12:17 PM 1/21/02 -0500, David T-G wrote:
>Um, that shouldn't be the case.  mutt will happily read and write mbox,
>Maildir, MMDF, and MH mailboxes with no complaints.  Are you sure you're
>using the trailing slash (dunno if it's really necessary)?  What is the
>objection?  Can you give us more details?

It actually didn't object; it simply created it as an mbox.  But the answer 
was even simpler than the trailing slash, which I had.  What I didn't have 
--- and thought I did --- was the set mbox_type="Maildir" in .muttrc

Ooops!  All is well now

andy



Andy Davidson   --- Pheon Research
   If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything.

Re: new mail in folders

[David T-G]

Carl --

...and then Carl B. Constantine said...
% 
% * Cameron Simpson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
% > | > Anyone have ideas on how to get this to work? (NOTE: my home machine
...
% > | That's the problem, the `for file in...` bit is run with whatever your
% > | default shell is, and that's won't work in tcsh, since it's bash (well, sh)
...
% > Or set $SHELL to /bin/sh (or bash, if present) in a wrapper around mutt
% > when invoking it.
% 
% well, even running BASH and then running mutt does not seem to solve the
% problem.

No, that won't do it; simply running bash does not reset $SHELL, so when
mutt looks to $SHELL it sees tcsh and runs it and tries to feed it a bash
construct.


% 
% I will try to create a tcsh version or just add it to mutt's mailboxes
% command manually since I don't watch that many lists.

You actually can't do a one-liner in tcsh (bummer, eh?).  You could,
however, do this in your .muttrc file:

  mailboxes ! `bash -c 'for i in ... do ... done'`

and force your shell (be it tcsh or anything else) to run bash.

I've since tossed the original email with your working example (you guys
in the quotes-too-much thread stay quiet!) but my recollection is that
you didn't want *all* of the mailboxes and so you were listing them out
in the for loop.  Follow up with details if this doesn't get you what
you need and we'll see what we can do.


% 
% -- 
% Carl B. Constantine   University of Victoria
% Programmer Analysthttp://www.uvic.ca
% UNIX System Administrator Victoria, BC, Canada
% [EMAIL PROTECTED]


:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




msg23471/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: new mail in folders

[Carl B. Constantine]

* Cameron Simpson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> | > Anyone have ideas on how to get this to work? (NOTE: my home machine
> | > uses BASH and I'm using tcsh here at work if that makes any difference).
> | 
> | That's the problem, the `for file in...` bit is run with whatever your
> | default shell is, and that's won't work in tcsh, since it's bash (well, sh)
> | syntax. Maybe you'd have to figure out the tcsh syntax, or write a
> | small bash script to call instead of the bash command directly (like I
> | do with my getfolders script).
> 
> Or set $SHELL to /bin/sh (or bash, if present) in a wrapper around mutt
> when invoking it.

well, even running BASH and then running mutt does not seem to solve the
problem.

I will try to create a tcsh version or just add it to mutt's mailboxes
command manually since I don't watch that many lists.

-- 
Carl B. Constantine University of Victoria
Programmer Analyst  http://www.uvic.ca
UNIX System Administrator   Victoria, BC, Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[David T-G]

Nick --

...and then Nick Wilson said...
% 
% * On 21-01-02 at 18:27 
% * David T-G said
% 
% > % the 'Nick believes in over-quoting' badge. Not true, not true.
% > 
% > Come, Nick...  Join me...  Join the dark side and piss off everyone on
% > the mutt-users list...  I am your father!
% 
% Haha, at last the voice of sanity!
% This thread was begging to ruin my day, silly me, all it needed was a
% bit of slap with the stupidity stick.

Ha!  Hey, count me in for slapping folks around; I'm here to do my part.

You should change your quote char.  I'd find '@' particularly annoying,
and nobody is using it yet.


% 
% Nice one!

Happy to help :-)


% 
% -- 
% 
% Nick Wilson
% 
% Tel:  +45 3325 0688
% Fax:  +45 3325 0677
% Web:  www.explodingnet.com
% 


:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




msg23469/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Derek D. Martin]

At some point hitherto, David T-G hath spake thusly:
> % Disagree, all this GO BACK AND READ THE THREAD! nonsense is insulting.
> % Of course I've been reading the thread. 
> 
> I don't think the comment is directed at you; we know you've been
> reading.  I think that the argument is that leaving in large amounts
> of quoted text (or, in the Outhouse way, the entire past history of
> the universe without the benefit of context quoting or even in-order
> presentation) is pointless; those who have been reading along will know
> what's up, and those who haven't should go back to the original messages
> instead of expecting everyone to reread the same stuff with every post
> just so that someone new could come up to speed in one message.

Precisely.


-- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org



msg23468/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At some point hitherto, Nick Wilson hath spake thusly:
> 
> > If you're not following the thread, but you suddenly decide it's
> > important, GO BACK AND READ THE THREAD!  You've already received the
> > e-mails, so you should have them.  If you don't, there's always the
> > archives.  (mutt-users has archives, doesn't it?)  
> > 
> > > Is that where the hostile tone is coming from?
> > 
> > Not hostile.  Matter-of-fact, yes.  Occasionally emphatic, yes.  But
> > never hostile.
> 
> Disagree, all this GO BACK AND READ THE THREAD! nonsense is insulting.
> Of course I've been reading the thread. 

Well, all I can say is, I think you're easily insulted if you find
everything that's said with emphasis to be insulting.  I add emphasis
to indicate where the points of my arguments are, and to clarify or
highlight certain things.  I apologize if you find that insulting, but
I think you're being over-sensitive.


- -- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8TEzodjdlQoHP510RAuDKAJ9VHUdoFbDk8FawFBb0aTpHhd7FsgCgu35H
f0DxgfiAyuXK1SAIdOAqrow=
=L1V8
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 18:27 
* David T-G said

> % I agree, I've been agreeing all along, I'm not sure where I've picked up
> % the 'Nick believes in over-quoting' badge. Not true, not true.
> 
> Come, Nick...  Join me...  Join the dark side and piss off everyone on
> the mutt-users list...  I am your father!

Haha, at last the voice of sanity!
This thread was begging to ruin my day, silly me, all it needed was a
bit of slap with the stupidity stick.

Nice one!

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TFDYHpvrrTa6L5oRArnpAKCyBLiDDPs/nhPYk94Qup58FWPgzwCffzPo
7UlzDJ2qcDr7gGiGwRgTFE4=
=lcSW
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[David T-G]

Nick, et al --

...and then Nick Wilson said...
% 
% * On 21-01-02 at 18:07 
% * Derek D. Martin said
% 
% > If you're not following the thread, but you suddenly decide it's
% > important, GO BACK AND READ THE THREAD!  You've already received the
% > e-mails, so you should have them.  If you don't, there's always the
% > archives.  (mutt-users has archives, doesn't it?)  
% > 
% > > Is that where the hostile tone is coming from?
% > 
% > Not hostile.  Matter-of-fact, yes.  Occasionally emphatic, yes.  But
% > never hostile.
% 
% Disagree, all this GO BACK AND READ THE THREAD! nonsense is insulting.
% Of course I've been reading the thread. 

I don't think the comment is directed at you; we know you've been
reading.  I think that the argument is that leaving in large amounts
of quoted text (or, in the Outhouse way, the entire past history of
the universe without the benefit of context quoting or even in-order
presentation) is pointless; those who have been reading along will know
what's up, and those who haven't should go back to the original messages
instead of expecting everyone to reread the same stuff with every post
just so that someone new could come up to speed in one message.


HTH & HAND

:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




msg23465/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Bold text

[David Champion]

On 2002.01.21, in <20020121164625.GB2845@neuromancer>,
"giorgian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 12:35:15PM -0600, David Champion wrote:
> > This message is in enriched text. Here's some text in boldfaced type. 
> > Here's italic. You can also do formatting -- you can 
> 
> everything works for me (mutt 1.3.25) but the italic (i saw it
> underlined) and justified text (which was left justified)...

Hmm. I'll have to try this out after I upgrade, but I suppose it's
possible that it doesn't work for me for the same problem that
RFC2047-encoded headers completely whack out my display, and multibyte
characters sometimes spin the pager into an infinite loop from which
only GDB can recover.

(It appears that something has changed in the OS I'm running, and I
don't have the savoir-faire to figure out what or why or how to fix it.
If anyone reading this does, I'd still appreciate pointers on what to
look for.)

-- 
 -D.[EMAIL PROTECTED]NSITUniversity of Chicago

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[David T-G]

Nick --

...and then Nick Wilson said...
% 
% I agree, I've been agreeing all along, I'm not sure where I've picked up
% the 'Nick believes in over-quoting' badge. Not true, not true.

Come, Nick...  Join me...  Join the dark side and piss off everyone on
the mutt-users list...  I am your father!

*grin*


% 
% Regards
% -- 
% 
% Nick Wilson


:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




msg23463/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: maildir over mbox?

[David T-G]

Andy --

...and then Andy Davidson said...
% 
% At 04:50 AM 1/21/02 -0600, Matthew D. Fuller wrote:
% >
% >Personally, I use maildir for all my 'active' mailboxes (read: the ones
...
% >I use mbox for my archive mailboxes, because it's simpler and more compact
...
% 
% I am in the process of converting to using mutt, so I've been playing

Welcome!


% a bit.  And it appears that the archive mailboxes *have* to be mboxes.
% If I try to save a message to an existing maildir folder, mutt objects.

Um, that shouldn't be the case.  mutt will happily read and write mbox,
Maildir, MMDF, and MH mailboxes with no complaints.  Are you sure you're
using the trailing slash (dunno if it's really necessary)?  What is the
objection?  Can you give us more details?


HTH & HAND

:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




msg23462/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 18:07 
* Derek D. Martin said

> If you're not following the thread, but you suddenly decide it's
> important, GO BACK AND READ THE THREAD!  You've already received the
> e-mails, so you should have them.  If you don't, there's always the
> archives.  (mutt-users has archives, doesn't it?)  
> 
> > Is that where the hostile tone is coming from?
> 
> Not hostile.  Matter-of-fact, yes.  Occasionally emphatic, yes.  But
> never hostile.


Disagree, all this GO BACK AND READ THE THREAD! nonsense is insulting.
Of course I've been reading the thread. 

> 
> > 
> > > (assuming you've been following the thread at all), no more and no
> > 
> > Come on. :)
> 
> Come on where?  My point is perfectly valid.  You've either read the
> thread or you haven't...  If not, then why jump into the middle of it,
> without reading it?  Ok, ok, I admit I do this occasionally too.
> But if you don't have enough context in a message from a thread, then
> you really ought to (re)read the thread to see what it's about, rather
> than expecting everyone else to waste bandwidth.

I'm not expecting anyone to do anything. I have read the thread. I don't
like your rudeness and I'm taking my ball back.


- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TE2lHpvrrTa6L5oRAi2sAJ0YdcJEDS7kq4JZvVNXU05L8n+pjwCfRhq9
s46/nuR+Icrag1t+hXnev2c=
=AUF8
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Derek D. Martin]

At some point hitherto, Nick Wilson hath spake thusly:
> * On 21-01-02 at 16:58 
> * Derek D. Martin said
>
> [Preben said:]
> > > > Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 21/01/2002 (14:47) :
> > > > > people did that they don't that would make my life easier. However, if
> > > > > we spend all our time worrying about every minority
> > > > > problem/consideration we'll never get *anything* done :)
> > > > 
> > > > Is it not a minority problem.
> > > 
> > > Sure it is, ask people who have reasonable sight how many
> > > blind/partially blind people they know. 
> > 
> > This is irrelevant.  Over-quoting is inconsiderate, and affects
> > everyone.  It causes us to have to wade through a bunch of irrelevant
> > garbage to get at (and often FIND) the author's point.  Quoting out of
> > context (i.e. writing your reply and then quoting the whole message
> > after what you've written ) is also a problem, because it removes the
> > context of the comment, increases ambiguity, and thereby makes it
> > harder to get the author's point, and increases the likelihood that it
> > will be misunderstood by a wide audience.
> 
> Well we certainly agree so far. Apart from the 'this is irrelevant bit'
> If you go back over the messages in the thread you'll see the point.

See above where Preben said this is not a minority problem.  He was
refering to the fact that it is a much BROADER problem than just one
that affects minorities.  Your comment is irrelevant to that argument.
(Preben: please correct me if I'm mistaken.)

> > > I think cutting down emails is definately a good thing but the way
> > > you've cut this for example is overdoing it.  That's a *very*
> > > selective piece of editing there Preben.
> > 
> > I disagree entirely.  The comment Preben quoted above is EXACTLY the
> > ammount that is needed to identify what his comment is in reference to
> > less.  
> 
> And there's where we differ, my point was just that the line above where
> preben decided to quote me was rather important. 

If you've been following the thread, it's not important.  Because
you've already read it.  :) 

If you're not following the thread, but you suddenly decide it's
important, GO BACK AND READ THE THREAD!  You've already received the
e-mails, so you should have them.  If you don't, there's always the
archives.  (mutt-users has archives, doesn't it?)  

> Is that where the hostile tone is coming from?

Not hostile.  Matter-of-fact, yes.  Occasionally emphatic, yes.  But
never hostile.

> 
> > (assuming you've been following the thread at all), no more and no
> 
> Come on. :)

Come on where?  My point is perfectly valid.  You've either read the
thread or you haven't...  If not, then why jump into the middle of it,
without reading it?  Ok, ok, I admit I do this occasionally too.
But if you don't have enough context in a message from a thread, then
you really ought to (re)read the thread to see what it's about, rather
than expecting everyone else to waste bandwidth.

-- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org



msg23460/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 17:41 
* Preben Randhol said

> Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 21/01/2002 (17:20) :
> 
> > And there's where we differ, my point was just that the line above where
> > preben decided to quote me was rather important. Is that where the
> > hostile tone is coming from?
> 
> No there is no hostile tone. But I wonder why one should quote large

well, it wasn't you I was refering to Preben. There was *definately* a
hostile tone in the response from Derek which I think came from me
daring to call blindess a minority problem. (Bad Wilson. in your
basket!)

> parts of a mail when everybody has alread read it. If one cannot follow
> a thread then on should go back and read the mails again. Over-quoted mails
> are like Word documents. You get a 100kb document containing 400b text.

I agree, I've been agreeing all along, I'm not sure where I've picked up
the 'Nick believes in over-quoting' badge. Not true, not true.

Regards
- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TEbFHpvrrTa6L5oRAoG0AJoDIUZbbrbDYsqldtYFtzkUknG25wCgo4rR
wm0cz0SX6gxlODzH/8lD+5U=
=fzUG
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Bold text

[giorgian]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 12:35:15PM -0600, David Champion wrote:
> This message is in enriched text. Here's some text in boldfaced type. 
> Here's italic. You can also do formatting -- you can 

everything works for me (mutt 1.3.25) but the italic (i saw it
underlined) and justified text (which was left justified)...

--
giorgian



msg23458/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Preben Randhol]

Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 21/01/2002 (16:50) :
> I think the quote is taken a little out of context.
> Bandwidth's a bugger on mailing lists huh?

If you get about 1000 overquoted mails a day, it is.

Preben
-- 
 ()   Join the worldwide campaign to protect fundamental human rights.
'||}
{||'   http://www.amnesty.org/

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Preben Randhol]

Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 21/01/2002 (17:20) :

[snipped away several quotes that should have been cut down in the
previous post]

> And there's where we differ, my point was just that the line above where
> preben decided to quote me was rather important. Is that where the
> hostile tone is coming from?

No there is no hostile tone. But I wonder why one should quote large
parts of a mail when everybody has alread read it. If one cannot follow
a thread then on should go back and read the mails again. Over-quoted mails
are like Word documents. You get a 100kb document containing 400b text.

Preben
-- 
 ()   Join the worldwide campaign to protect fundamental human rights.
'||}
{||'   http://www.amnesty.org/

Re: maildir over mbox?

[Will Yardley]

Michael Elkins wrote:
> 
> I'd be curious to get some feedback on my header caching patch for maildir
> folders (can be found at http://www.sigpipe.org:8080/mutt/).

ok a little more feedback. overall performance is a little zippier, but
if i leave a folder open and it receives messages, i get the 'folder was
externally modified' message, and sometimes the message indicator seems
to have jumped up (although maybe i'm just hallucinating).

this makes sense, but it might be nice if there were a way around it.

w

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 16:58 
* Derek D. Martin said

> > > Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 21/01/2002 (14:47) :
> > > > people did that they don't that would make my life easier. However, if
> > > > we spend all our time worrying about every minority
> > > > problem/consideration we'll never get *anything* done :)
> > > 
> > > Is it not a minority problem.
> > 
> > Sure it is, ask people who have reasonable sight how many
> > blind/partially blind people they know. 
> 
> This is irrelevant.  Over-quoting is inconsiderate, and affects
> everyone.  It causes us to have to wade through a bunch of irrelevant
> garbage to get at (and often FIND) the author's point.  Quoting out of
> context (i.e. writing your reply and then quoting the whole message
> after what you've written ) is also a problem, because it removes the
> context of the comment, increases ambiguity, and thereby makes it
> harder to get the author's point, and increases the likelihood that it
> will be misunderstood by a wide audience.

Well we certainly agree so far. Apart from the 'this is irrelevant bit'
If you go back over the messages in the thread you'll see the point.

> > I think cutting down emails is definately a good thing but the way
> > you've cut this for example is overdoing it.  That's a *very*
> > selective piece of editing there Preben.
> 
> I disagree entirely.  The comment Preben quoted above is EXACTLY the
> ammount that is needed to identify what his comment is in reference to
> less.  

And there's where we differ, my point was just that the line above where
preben decided to quote me was rather important. Is that where the
hostile tone is coming from?

> (assuming you've been following the thread at all), no more and no

Come on. :)

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TD9oHpvrrTa6L5oRApdLAJ4iAJMTPgFfiRTgGBe//azQ9g3+iACcDIZQ
GXm8FSNgbBvb8DFhyd2+fLM=
=h/2o
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: List of 3rd party apps for Mutt

[Prahlad Vaidyanathan]

Hi Jeremy and others,

http://www.symonds.net/~prahladv/mutt.html

is back up after a long hiatus. Sorry, but I was having trouble ssh-ing
to the server, and was too busy to figure it out :-(

Anyway, I will update it as and when something cool turns up. Meanwhile,
do send in links to apps you use(d) and like(d).

pv.
-- 
Prahlad Vaidyanathan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

If you will practice being fictional for a while, you will understand that
fictional characters are sometimes more real than people with bodies and
heartbeats.



msg23453/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: setting Reply-To header

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 17:02 
* Knute said

> You have your quotes in the wrong place.  Try this:
>   send-hook ~[EMAIL PROTECTED] "my_hdr Reply-To: Mutt-Users
>   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
> 
> They way you had it, was telling mutt to only look in the to field for
> the entire string, and no command.
> -- 

Knute, do you have your Mutt set to sort lists by threads?
This is the last couple of lines from the last mail in this thread;
> 
> send-hook '~t [EMAIL PROTECTED]' \
>   "my_hdr Reply-To: Mutt-Users <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"

Yep, those little single quotes were the problem.
Thanks guys.


Cheers
- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TD2IHpvrrTa6L5oRArc1AJ0ZMofd6CMhaU55bM3Jh8ZApHS99wCgsN0Q
HgFWjX/JaRD35voKIwNL9PY=
=L/W/
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: maildir over mbox?

[Andy Davidson]

At 04:50 AM 1/21/02 -0600, Matthew D. Fuller wrote:
>
>Personally, I use maildir for all my 'active' mailboxes (read: the ones
>that mail gets delivered to and I read) because it's that much safer,
>easier and more efficient to alter, and roughly similar in speed to open.
>I use mbox for my archive mailboxes, because it's simpler and more compact
>(I don't need to blow a few million inodes on mail archives, thank you
>very much), and it's faster on the mailboxes with tens or hundreds of
>thousands of messages.

I am in the process of converting to using mutt, so I've been playing
a bit.  And it appears that the archive mailboxes *have* to be mboxes.
If I try to save a message to an existing maildir folder, mutt objects.

>And, having spent rather some time lately writing code to parse mbox's,
>I'd like to make the following general comment:
>Bah.

Agreed.

andy

Re: setting Reply-To header

[Knute]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Nick Wilson wrote:


> Certainly seems to be it although I'm having a little trouble getting it
> to work. I keep getting a 'error missing parameter in line 316' (first
> line of the code below)

> send-hook . "my_hdr Reply-To: Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
> send-hook ~t "[EMAIL PROTECTED] set my_hdr Reply-To: Mutt-Users 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"

> Any thought?

> Thanks

You have your quotes in the wrong place.  Try this:
send-hook ~[EMAIL PROTECTED] "my_hdr Reply-To: Mutt-Users
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"

They way you had it, was telling mutt to only look in the to field for
the entire string, and no command.
-- 
Knute

You live, You die.  Enjoy the interval!
-- Clarence

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Derek D. Martin]

At some point hitherto, Nick Wilson hath spake thusly:
> 
> * On 21-01-02 at 15:08 
> * Preben Randhol said
> 
> > Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 21/01/2002 (14:47) :
> > > people did that they don't that would make my life easier. However, if
> > > we spend all our time worrying about every minority
> > > problem/consideration we'll never get *anything* done :)
> > 
> > Is it not a minority problem.
> 
> Sure it is, ask people who have reasonable sight how many
> blind/partially blind people they know. 

This is irrelevant.  Over-quoting is inconsiderate, and affects
everyone.  It causes us to have to wade through a bunch of irrelevant
garbage to get at (and often FIND) the author's point.  Quoting out of
context (i.e. writing your reply and then quoting the whole message
after what you've written ) is also a problem, because it removes the
context of the comment, increases ambiguity, and thereby makes it
harder to get the author's point, and increases the likelihood that it
will be misunderstood by a wide audience.

Limiting what you quote to the point that you're trying to comment on,
and commenting on it immediately afterward maximizes clarity, and
helps to reduce ambiguity by making it very clear what the author was
intending to comment ABOUT.

> I think cutting down emails is definately a good thing but the way
> you've cut this for example is overdoing it.  That's a *very*
> selective piece of editing there Preben.

I disagree entirely.  The comment Preben quoted above is EXACTLY the
ammount that is needed to identify what his comment is in reference to
(assuming you've been following the thread at all), no more and no
less.  


-- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org



msg23449/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: mutt + ssl

[Knute]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Theo Bierman wrote:


> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 02:42:59PM +0100, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 03:32:18PM +0200, Theo Bierman wrote:
> > 
> > You need to install openssl-dev as well :)
> > (and ncurses-dev etc.)

>   tried an apt-get install openssl-dev/ncurses-dev, but nothing, the "-dev" 
>extension, firstly what is it and secondly, where can I find it, or should I not be 
>searching for it as openssl-dev and ncurses-dev?

ncurses-dev is actually libncurses5-dev.

> > 
> > Debian rules :)

>   loving it to :)

You said it!  

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 16:47 
* Derek D. Martin said

> > Learn to use your screenreader better, and teach it to ignore or skip 
> > over quote chars at the start of a new line. 
>  
> That's a pretty inconsiderate attitude to take, and doesn't solve the 
> problem for people who still have to pay for their bandwidth, as is 
> not so uncommon in non-US locations. 

I think the quote is taken a little out of context.
Bandwidth's a bugger on mailing lists huh?

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TDi+HpvrrTa6L5oRAmvZAKCbFGPgyIfTl1ux2QfUN6nmEqYKhwCeIZR+
aWW3R+ez3fOlv2VdO79HvFE=
=zAdH
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: mutt + ssl

[Knute]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Theo Bierman wrote:

>   Downloaded mutt-1.3.26, I have installed ncurses, slang and openssl. Then ran 
>./configure --enable-imap --with-ssl and I'm getting an error as follows:

>   checking for X509_new in -lcrypto... no
> configure: error: Unable to find SSL library

> I'm using debian right, so I did not download the tar.gz for openssl, I just ran a 
>apt-get install openssl and it installed openssl_0.9.4-5_i386.deb. So whether it can 
>find libcrypto I don't know, should I be using a diffeent version of ssL

do an "apt-get install openssl-dev"
You need the dev, cause you are trying to build against the openssl
package.  The openssl package doesn't contain the headers you need.

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Derek D. Martin]

At some point hitherto, Dave Price hath spake thusly: 
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 05:25:56PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: 

> > to the reader by a voder. Where it's merely inconsiderate to not trim 
> > quotations when replying ordinarily, when replying to a blind user it 
> > becomes outright rude. 
>  
> Learn to use your screenreader better, and teach it to ignore or skip 
> over quote chars at the start of a new line. 
 
That's a pretty inconsiderate attitude to take, and doesn't solve the 
problem for people who still have to pay for their bandwidth, as is 
not so uncommon in non-US locations. 

-- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org



msg23445/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: OT: tar --append (was "Re: open-hook for tar.gz maildir archives")

[Thomas Hurst]

* David T-G ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> ...and then Michael Tatge said...
>
> > Quoting tar's man page:
> >
> > -r, --append append files to the end of an archive
> >
> > Works like charm.
>
> No kidding!  I've never seen one work.  What version of tar are you
> running?

It should work fine provided tar strips off the NULL blocks at the end,
although this might get hairy going through gzip unless tar's going to
rewrite the entire archive.

> This is *very* interesting.  Thanks (and in advance) for the info.

I'm currently writing a tar handler.  I'm afraid I can't say it's the
most impressive format I've seen :)

-- 
Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -  http://www.aagh.net/
-
The sun never sets on those who ride into it.
-- RKO

Re: maildir over mbox?

[Derek D. Martin]

At some point hitherto, Thomas Hurst hath spake thusly:
> * Derek D. Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> > At some point hitherto, Will Yardley hath spake thusly:
> > > our office mail machine is (unfortunately) linux with ext2, and i
> > > can attest to the fact that Maildir is pretty slow on ext2.
> >
> > And most other filesystems...  Try it on FAT.  =8^)
> 
> I think the overhead of opening and closing tonnes of small files is
> inherintly going to be slower than one big file on reading.

Right...

> -% mutt -Re 'push q' -f test-mbox
> 6.80s user 0.75s system 85% cpu 8.810 total
> 
> -% mutt -Re 'push q' -f test-maildir
> 7.39s user 2.38s system 32% cpu 29.882 total

Yeah, that's what I mean.  And that's with your optimized filesystem
and a pretty beefy system.  

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that maildir doesn't have
advantages.  It does.  For me though, this is a significant enough
trade-off to make sticking with mbox worthwhile.  I'm impatient! :)

-- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org



msg23443/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

OT: tar --append (was "Re: open-hook for tar.gz maildir archives")

[David T-G]

Michael --

...and then Michael Tatge said...
% 
% David T-G muttered:
% > % how can i use close-hook and append-hook for tar.gz maildirs?
% > 
% > You can't use append-hook; tar doesn't support appending (or at least not
% > in any form that I've ever seen actually work, contrary to the promises
% > made by the -a switch).
% 
% Quoting tar's man page:
% 
% -r, --append
% append files to the end of an archive
% 
% Works like charm.

No kidding!  I've never seen one work.  What version of tar are you
running?

This is *very* interesting.  Thanks (and in advance) for the info.


% 
% HTH,
% 
% Michael
% -- 
% 
% PGP-Key: http://www-stud.ims.uni-stuttgart.de/~tatgeml/public.key


:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




msg23442/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 15:38 
* Thomas Hurst said

> * Nick Wilson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > 
> > How do you tell if you are sending to a blind user?
> 
> You don't; quoting properly has nothing to do with who you're sending
> to, it's just basic email etiquette.  That it's easier for the blind to
> read is just a consequence of the mail being generally easier to read.

I agree whole heartedly. My point is that how much to quote is a matter
for interpretation and what Preben finds excessive, I may find
neccessary. Although I think we can all agree on the extremes and reach
sensible tolerance levels.

> > I'm very poor sighted and as a result there are many things I wish
> > people did that they don't that would make my life easier.
> 
> Such as?

Overtaking me on my bike on the *inside*, I'm giving up cycling in town
this year mainly because if everyone followed the rules there'd be no
problem but when people do stuff I'm not expecting it can get a little
dangerous for everyone.
And I wish the supermarkets would keep stuff in the same places!

> 
> Have you discovered the wonders of user CSS files that let you force
> websites to use sensible font types/sizes and well contrasted colours?
> :)

Sure, don't find I need it that often though.

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TCsZHpvrrTa6L5oRAvP8AJ40A51dC8+SAJA4x0Xqdzs3cL3dgQCgs87S
orI1CLg/VzAwh4ZznRw76RA=
=6Nx3
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 15:08 
* Preben Randhol said

> Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 21/01/2002 (14:47) :
> > people did that they don't that would make my life easier. However, if
> > we spend all our time worrying about every minority
> > problem/consideration we'll never get *anything* done :)
> 
> Is it not a minority problem.

Sure it is, ask people who have reasonable sight how many
blind/partially blind people they know. I don't know any. I think
cutting down emails is definately a good thing but the way you've cut
this for example is overdoing it. That's a *very* selective piece of
editing there Preben.
I agree with Dave, time spent adjusting the screen reader would be a
good investment *as well* as people being sensible with their replys.

Sheesh, you think this is bad? Take a look at the RedHat list :=)

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TCkpHpvrrTa6L5oRAoWAAJ9zTM+LQiL333nTiUDt7E/isu228gCgpB9/
LHUL3X4dOP6VDhxsfQpRAks=
=VHme
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Thomas Hurst]

* Nick Wilson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> * On 21-01-02 at 14:40 
> * Thomas Hurst said
> 
> > Being able to skip quotes is no excuse not to trim them; not caring
> > whether people will simply ignore your message because it appears to
> > have no content isn't either.
> 
> How do you tell if you are sending to a blind user?

You don't; quoting properly has nothing to do with who you're sending
to, it's just basic email etiquette.  That it's easier for the blind to
read is just a consequence of the mail being generally easier to read.

My eyesight's fine, but I still find overquoting annoying and
unnecessary.

> I'm very poor sighted and as a result there are many things I wish
> people did that they don't that would make my life easier.

Such as?

Have you discovered the wonders of user CSS files that let you force
websites to use sensible font types/sizes and well contrasted colours?
:)

You can also use them to block a decent proportion of banner ads if
your browser's smart enough..

> However, if we spend all our time worrying about every minority
> problem/consideration we'll never get *anything* done :)

No, but basic email etiquette isn't a minority consideration; like
following W3C recommendations and RFC's, it benefits everyone.

> > Perhaps mutt should demand confirmation for sending messages with
> > more than 80% quoting..
>
> Nah, people gotta choose how they do thier stuff.

Then they can hit 'y', or put warn_overquoting = no in their .muttrc

Warning: Message contains 98% quotes in body. Send anyway? [Y/n]

-- 
Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -  http://www.aagh.net/
-
"Hello," he lied.
-- Don Carpenter, quoting a Hollywood agent

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Preben Randhol]

Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 21/01/2002 (14:47) :
> people did that they don't that would make my life easier. However, if
> we spend all our time worrying about every minority
> problem/consideration we'll never get *anything* done :)

Is it not a minority problem.

Preben
-- 
 ()   Join the worldwide campaign to protect fundamental human rights.
'||}
{||'   http://www.amnesty.org/

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Preben Randhol]

Dave Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 21/01/2002 (14:25) :
> Learn to use your screenreader better, and teach it to ignore or skip
> over quote chars at the start of a new line.

There is no point in sending a load of quoted stuff to anybody. Cut it
down to relevant part before you send. This is common net etiquette.

Preben
-- 
 ()   Join the worldwide campaign to protect fundamental human rights.
'||}
{||'   http://www.amnesty.org/

Re: mutt + ssl

[Theo Bierman]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 02:43:27PM +0100, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 03:32:18PM +0200, Theo Bierman wrote:
> 
> > I'm using debian right, so I did not download the tar.gz for openssl,
> > I just ran a apt-get install openssl and it installed
> > openssl_0.9.4-5_i386.deb. So whether it can find libcrypto I don't
> > know, should I be using a diffeent version of ssL
> 
> apt-get install mutt-ssl 

  apt-get install mutt-ssl
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
E: Couldn't find package mutt-ssl ?

Does this install all the other things that I need 
> 
> -- 
> Ralf Hildebrandt (Im Auftrag des Referat V A)   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Charite Campus Virchow-Klinikum Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
> Referat V A - Kommunikationsnetze - Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-916
> Postfix: Something like a wisened old man sitting on the porch outside
> the postoffice. Looks at everyone who passes by with deep suspicion,
> but turns out to be friendly and helpful once he realises you're not
> there to rob the place.   
---end quoted text---

-- 
Theo Bierman
Customer Implementation Team
UUNET S.A., a WorldCom Company
Tel: +27 11 235-6621
Fax: +27 11 235-6501
E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Customer Service Centre:  08600 UUNET / 08600 88638
http://www.uunet.co.za

Re: mutt + ssl

[Theo Bierman]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 02:42:59PM +0100, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 03:32:18PM +0200, Theo Bierman wrote:
> 
> >   Downloaded mutt-1.3.26, I have installed ncurses, slang and
> >   openssl. Then ran ./configure --enable-imap --with-ssl and I'm
> >   getting an error as follows:
> > 
> >   checking for X509_new in -lcrypto... no
> > configure: error: Unable to find SSL library
> > 
> > I'm using debian right, so I did not download the tar.gz for openssl,
> > I just ran a apt-get install openssl and it installed
> > openssl_0.9.4-5_i386.deb. So whether it can find libcrypto I don't
> > know, should I be using a diffeent version of ssL
> 
> You need to install openssl-dev as well :)
> (and ncurses-dev etc.)

  tried an apt-get install openssl-dev/ncurses-dev, but nothing, the "-dev" extension, 
firstly what is it and secondly, where can I find it, or should I not be searching for 
it as openssl-dev and ncurses-dev?
> 
> Debian rules :)

  loving it to :)
> 
> -- 
> Ralf Hildebrandt (Im Auftrag des Referat V A)   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Charite Campus Virchow-Klinikum Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
> Referat V A - Kommunikationsnetze - Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-916
> One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
> lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
> their C Programs. 
---end quoted text---

-- 
Theo Bierman
Customer Implementation Team
UUNET S.A., a WorldCom Company
Tel: +27 11 235-6621
Fax: +27 11 235-6501
E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Customer Service Centre:  08600 UUNET / 08600 88638
http://www.uunet.co.za

Re: mutt + ssl

[Ralf Hildebrandt]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 03:32:18PM +0200, Theo Bierman wrote:

> I'm using debian right, so I did not download the tar.gz for openssl,
> I just ran a apt-get install openssl and it installed
> openssl_0.9.4-5_i386.deb. So whether it can find libcrypto I don't
> know, should I be using a diffeent version of ssL

apt-get install mutt-ssl 

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (Im Auftrag des Referat V A)   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Charite Campus Virchow-Klinikum Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Referat V A - Kommunikationsnetze - Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-916
Postfix: Something like a wisened old man sitting on the porch outside
the postoffice. Looks at everyone who passes by with deep suspicion,
but turns out to be friendly and helpful once he realises you're not
there to rob the place.   

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 14:40 
* Thomas Hurst said

> * Dave Price ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 05:25:56PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> > > Where it's merely inconsiderate to not trim quotations when replying
> > > ordinarily, when replying to a blind user it becomes outright rude.
> 
> > Learn to use your screenreader better, and teach it to ignore or skip
> > over quote chars at the start of a new line.
> 
> That would still leave you with a truckload of repeated and mostly
> irrelevent cruft, and not only for someone using a screenreader.
> 
> Being able to skip quotes is no excuse not to trim them; not caring
> whether people will simply ignore your message because it appears to
> have no content isn't either.

How do you tell if you are sending to a blind user?
I'm very poor sighted and as a result there are many things I wish
people did that they don't that would make my life easier. However, if
we spend all our time worrying about every minority
problem/consideration we'll never get *anything* done :)

> 
> Perhaps mutt should demand confirmation for sending messages with more
> than 80% quoting..

Nah, people gotta choose how they do thier stuff.

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD4DBQE8TBuOHpvrrTa6L5oRAr7SAKCJKYgmsV+DstK+UTB6I+8qSWNCqQCWMdMj
Snkr9TOCC/NuQFc/VEYmPw==
=JdQc
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: mutt + ssl

[Ralf Hildebrandt]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 03:32:18PM +0200, Theo Bierman wrote:

>   Downloaded mutt-1.3.26, I have installed ncurses, slang and
>   openssl. Then ran ./configure --enable-imap --with-ssl and I'm
>   getting an error as follows:
> 
>   checking for X509_new in -lcrypto... no
> configure: error: Unable to find SSL library
> 
> I'm using debian right, so I did not download the tar.gz for openssl,
> I just ran a apt-get install openssl and it installed
> openssl_0.9.4-5_i386.deb. So whether it can find libcrypto I don't
> know, should I be using a diffeent version of ssL

You need to install openssl-dev as well :)
(and ncurses-dev etc.)

Debian rules :)

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (Im Auftrag des Referat V A)   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Charite Campus Virchow-Klinikum Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Referat V A - Kommunikationsnetze - Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-916
One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C Programs. 

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Thomas Hurst]

* Dave Price ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 05:25:56PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> > Where it's merely inconsiderate to not trim quotations when replying
> > ordinarily, when replying to a blind user it becomes outright rude.

> Learn to use your screenreader better, and teach it to ignore or skip
> over quote chars at the start of a new line.

That would still leave you with a truckload of repeated and mostly
irrelevent cruft, and not only for someone using a screenreader.

Being able to skip quotes is no excuse not to trim them; not caring
whether people will simply ignore your message because it appears to
have no content isn't either.

Perhaps mutt should demand confirmation for sending messages with more
than 80% quoting..

-- 
Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -  http://www.aagh.net/
-
I finally got it all together...
but I forgot where I put it.

Re: mutt + ssl

[Theo Bierman]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 11:15:33AM +0100, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 12:01:44PM +0200, Theo Bierman wrote:
> 
> > > > > {imap.web.de/ssl}
> > > 
> > > Have you tried this before upgrading?
> > 
> >   Please forgive my ignorance, but what exactly do I have to do?
> 
> OK. 
> 
> 1) Press c (for change mailbox)
> 2) As mailboxname, enter
> 
>{servername/ssl}
> 
> 3) Then mutt tries to contact servername via IMAP over SSL

  Hi

  Downloaded mutt-1.3.26, I have installed ncurses, slang and openssl. Then ran 
./configure --enable-imap --with-ssl and I'm getting an error as follows:

  checking for X509_new in -lcrypto... no
configure: error: Unable to find SSL library

I'm using debian right, so I did not download the tar.gz for openssl, I just ran a 
apt-get install openssl and it installed openssl_0.9.4-5_i386.deb. So whether it can 
find libcrypto I don't know, should I be using a diffeent version of ssL
> 
> -- 
> Ralf Hildebrandt (Im Auftrag des Referat V A)   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Charite Campus Virchow-Klinikum Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
> Referat V A - Kommunikationsnetze - Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-916
> I have never left my schooling interfere with my education. - Mark Twain
---end quoted text---

-- 
Theo Bierman
Customer Implementation Team
UUNET S.A., a WorldCom Company
Tel: +27 11 235-6621
Fax: +27 11 235-6501
E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Customer Service Centre:  08600 UUNET / 08600 88638
http://www.uunet.co.za

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

[Dave Price]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 05:25:56PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> Remember that for many blind users these messages are being spoken
> to the reader by a voder. Where it's merely inconsiderate to not trim
> quotations when replying ordinarily, when replying to a blind user it
> becomes outright rude.
> 
> Just something to bear in mind.

Learn to use your screenreader better, and teach it to ignore or skip
over quote chars at the start of a new line.


aloha, ( & HTH )
dave

Re: setting Reply-To header

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 14:12 
* Im Eunjea said

> * Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-01-21 13:51]:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > 
> > Certainly seems to be it although I'm having a little trouble getting it
> > to work. I keep getting a 'error missing parameter in line 316' (first
> > line of the code below)
> > 
> > send-hook . "my_hdr Reply-To: Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
> > send-hook ~t "[EMAIL PROTECTED] set my_hdr Reply-To: Mutt-Users 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
> > 
> 
> send-hook '~t [EMAIL PROTECTED]' \
>   "my_hdr Reply-To: Mutt-Users <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"

Yep, those little single quotes were the problem.
Thanks guys.

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TBVxHpvrrTa6L5oRAu/YAJ9cEiQBP2IVPdh+erHUxoKTk8ccGgCffp4W
NCj/WDe6e5DwiynoUKvjJ8Q=
=oWyC
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: setting Reply-To header

[Im Eunjea]

* Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-01-21 13:51]:

[...]

> 
> Certainly seems to be it although I'm having a little trouble getting it
> to work. I keep getting a 'error missing parameter in line 316' (first
> line of the code below)
> 
> send-hook . "my_hdr Reply-To: Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
> send-hook ~t "[EMAIL PROTECTED] set my_hdr Reply-To: Mutt-Users 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
> 

send-hook '~t [EMAIL PROTECTED]' \
"my_hdr Reply-To: Mutt-Users <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"


-- 
 
GnuPG fingerprint: 08C9 2D3F 91B2 D395 2EFF  4C33 544C 321C E194 91CF



msg23427/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: setting Reply-To header

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 13:15 
* Ken Wahl said

> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 12:43:26PM +0100, Nick Wilson wrote:
> 
> > Hi everyone.
> > I've been looking through the docs and can't find what controls the
> > Reply-To header. I want to set folder-hooks for some mailing lists I
> > subscribe to where the users are inclined to hit the 'reply button' in
> > Outhouse rather than send to the list.
> > 
> > Can someone please tell me where I need to be looking?
> > -- 
> 
> set hdrs
> #add headers defined by my_hdr command to every outgoing message
> 
> send-hook . "my_hdr Reply-To: Me <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
> #sets default Reply-To header
> 
> send-hook ~t mutt.org "my_hdr Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> #sets Reply-To for all messages sent to @mutt.org
> 
> I *think* this is what you are looking for.

Certainly seems to be it although I'm having a little trouble getting it
to work. I keep getting a 'error missing parameter in line 316' (first
line of the code below)

send-hook . "my_hdr Reply-To: Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
send-hook ~t "[EMAIL PROTECTED] set my_hdr Reply-To: Mutt-Users 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"

Any thought?

Thanks
- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8TA7dHpvrrTa6L5oRAuwFAKCiPexe+s15XRHHgkbebYaZ23VXjwCfVSdG
U2zC6W1IYcr+Trhej6AGkpQ=
=iMCu
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: setting Reply-To header

[Jim Mock]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 at 12:43:26 +0100, Nick Wilson wrote:
> Hi everyone.
> I've been looking through the docs and can't find what controls the
> Reply-To header. I want to set folder-hooks for some mailing lists I
> subscribe to where the users are inclined to hit the 'reply button' in
> Outhouse rather than send to the list.
> 
> Can someone please tell me where I need to be looking?

Check out "my_hdr".

- jim

-- 
jim mock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   http://soupnazi.org/ | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: open-hook for tar.gz maildir archives

[Michael Tatge]

David T-G muttered:
> % how can i use close-hook and append-hook for tar.gz maildirs?
> 
> You can't use append-hook; tar doesn't support appending (or at least not
> in any form that I've ever seen actually work, contrary to the promises
> made by the -a switch).

Quoting tar's man page:

-r, --append
append files to the end of an archive

Works like charm.

HTH,

Michael
-- 

PGP-Key: http://www-stud.ims.uni-stuttgart.de/~tatgeml/public.key

setting Reply-To header

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi everyone.
I've been looking through the docs and can't find what controls the
Reply-To header. I want to set folder-hooks for some mailing lists I
subscribe to where the users are inclined to hit the 'reply button' in
Outhouse rather than send to the list.

Can someone please tell me where I need to be looking?
- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8S/7eHpvrrTa6L5oRAhYJAJ9UU6u1cc9FCeQDXiNhmOoLFBLCRwCdFNhI
n2AaOvXn/8zXLp6dFf+BRV4=
=bFAn
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: maildir over mbox?

[Thomas Hurst]

* Derek D. Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> At some point hitherto, Will Yardley hath spake thusly:
> > our office mail machine is (unfortunately) linux with ext2, and i
> > can attest to the fact that Maildir is pretty slow on ext2.
>
> And most other filesystems...  Try it on FAT.  =8^)

I think the overhead of opening and closing tonnes of small files is
inherintly going to be slower than one big file on reading.

Maildir is a simpler format for the MUA; one of mutt's advantages is with
mbox it does minimal writes, so for instance when it changes a status
flag, it just overwrites the old one, where as a lesser client may well
end up rewriting the entire mailbox from that point.  With Maildir, even
if the MUA rewrites the entire message each time the change is always
limited to one small file.

Maildir's advantages are in reliability (it's harder to corrupt 1000
small files than 1 big one), and modification cost
(moving/deleting/editing a message is a constant time operation, where
as mbox will potentially get slower as it gets bigger.  This isn't so
bad when the mailbox is small, or when you're modifying messages near
the end, but things like message archiving is going to be faster (and
easier) with maildir.

> > i haven't tried copying one of my large Maildir folders over to one
> > of my machines (FreeBSD, UFS filesystem with soft-updates) to see
> > how much faster it is, but i've heard that the difference is pretty
> > large.
>
> But how does it compare to mbox on the same FS?  I'll bet it's still
> significantly slower.

Well, I'm running FreeBSD 4.5 + UFS+FFS+SU and dirhashing, let's see..

I did try this a few months ago, btw, Maildir added about 25% to opening
time; good metadata caching could well make the difference here.
Personally, though, I'd use a minimal mbox type file over a dbm for that;
dbm's involve a lot of seeking, which is what we're trying to reduce :)

Anyway;

-% cat archive/2001/lists/cvs-all/11-2001.cvs-all
archive/2001/lists/cvs-all/12-2001.cvs-all >test-mbox
-% grep -c '^From ' test-mbox
7870

-% time mutt -Re 'push q' -f test-mbox
6.75s user 0.80s system 99% cpu 7.618 total

It took about a minute to convert to a mailbox;

-% mutt -Re 'push q' -f test-maildir
6.96s user 1.56s system 97% cpu 8.784 total

Those are cached values, though, so they're not really measuring
filesystem performance, s, let's malloc 300MB and fill it with
zero's, and:

-% mutt -Re 'push q' -f test-mbox
6.80s user 0.75s system 85% cpu 8.810 total

-% mutt -Re 'push q' -f test-maildir
7.39s user 2.38s system 32% cpu 29.882 total

Witness the overhead of all that seeking.

This is a Dual 466MHz Celeron w/ 384MB and a 20GB UDMA/33 drive.

-- 
Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -  http://www.aagh.net/
-
You've been telling me to relax all the way here,
and now you're telling me just to be myself?
-- The Return of the Secaucus Seven

Re: [Announce] Mutt-1.3.26 has been released.

[Thomas Roessler]

On 2002-01-19 01:56:56 -0800, A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:
>bradl@bellicha:/usr/local/src/mail/mutt> gpg mutt-1.3.26i.tar.gz.asc
>gpg: Warning: using insecure memory!
>gpg: Signature made Fri 18 Jan 2002 03:45:17 AM PST using RSA key ID CE6AC6C1
>gpg: BAD signature from "Thomas Roessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
>bradl@bellicha:/usr/local/src/mail/mutt> gpg mutt-1.3.25i.tar.gz.asc
>gpg: Warning: using insecure memory!
>gpg: Signature made Tue 01 Jan 2002 12:19:06 PM PST using RSA key ID CE6AC6C1
>gpg: Good signature from "Thomas Roessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"

What's the md5 checksum of the tar ball you are looking at?  It 
should be 9021d6830c63da550e8fe4d65ba5fbdd.



-- 
Thomas Roessler<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



msg23421/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: maildir over mbox?

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 06:45:54PM -0800 I heard the voice of
Michael Elkins, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Mutt attempts to compensate for this by using quoted-printable encoding when
> it detects things that might break a signature, thus escaping the problem.
> But yes, mbox format is more susceptable to corruption of this form.

Mutt also bypasses the problem by not doing From_-escaping when the
message has its handy-dandy Content-Length: header (which makes it fun to
parse the files if you don't think of it...  "Why does this 8-message
folder show 12 messages?").

Personally, I use maildir for all my 'active' mailboxes (read: the ones
that mail gets delivered to and I read) because it's that much safer,
easier and more efficient to alter, and roughly similar in speed to open.
I use mbox for my archive mailboxes, because it's simpler and more compact
(I don't need to blow a few million inodes on mail archives, thank you
very much), and it's faster on the mailboxes with tens or hundreds of
thousands of messages.

And, having spent rather some time lately writing code to parse mbox's,
I'd like to make the following general comment:
Bah.



-- 
Matthew Fuller (MF4839) |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unix Systems Administrator  |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Specializing in FreeBSD |http://www.over-yonder.net/

"The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I
  haven't figured out how to light the middle yet"

Re: validating traditional signitures

[Nick Wilson]

* On 21-01-02 at 09:37 
* René Clerc said

> * Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [21-01-2002 09:23]:
> 
> > I've been noticing that when Mutt encounters a clearsigned pgp signiture
> > that I'm not getting the little 's' flag in the index and I don't seem
> > to be able to validate the signiture in anyway.
> 
> Check out:
> 
> Pcheck-traditional-pgp

Thanks Rene, I was using it wrong. In the index p was just giving
me the previous thread but of course it's a *capital* 'P'!

Cheers
-- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com






msg23419/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: maildir over mbox?

[Christian Ordig]

On Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 09:39:52PM -0500, Derek D. Martin wrote:
> But how does it compare to mbox on the same FS?  I'll bet it's still
> significantly slower.
opening times might be ... but think about updating times and the
"no locking needed" goodies :-)

-- 
Christian Ordig
Germany

Re: mutt + ssl

[Ralf Hildebrandt]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 12:01:44PM +0200, Theo Bierman wrote:

> > > > {imap.web.de/ssl}
> > 
> > Have you tried this before upgrading?
> 
>   Please forgive my ignorance, but what exactly do I have to do?

OK. 

1) Press c (for change mailbox)
2) As mailboxname, enter

   {servername/ssl}

3) Then mutt tries to contact servername via IMAP over SSL

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (Im Auftrag des Referat V A)   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Charite Campus Virchow-Klinikum Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Referat V A - Kommunikationsnetze - Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-916
I have never left my schooling interfere with my education. - Mark Twain

Re: my-hdr entry disappears after editing headers

[David T-G]

Andreas --

...and then Andreas Herceg said...
% 
% On Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 08:11:18PM -0500, David T-G wrote:
% | 
% | No, X-* is for defining your own headers, and there is no end to the list
% | of them :-)
% 
% That is exactly what I thought.
% 
% | It's simply that mutt specifically recognizes X-Label: just like other
% | headers rather than ignoring them like other X-* vanity headers.
% 
% And this I did not know. Thank you very much, everything's clear now
% again.

Happy to help -- and thank *you*!


% 
% Andreas Herceg
% 
% -- 
% [EMAIL PROTECTED]


:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




msg23416/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: mutt + ssl

[Theo Bierman]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:14:18AM +0100, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 11:05:35AM +0200, Theo Bierman wrote:
> 
> >   I downloaded mutt-1.3.25i.tar.gz and ran ./configure --enable-ssl and got the 
>following error:
> > 
> > configure: error: no curses library found
> > 
> >  is this because mutt-1.3.25i.tar.gz does not support it?
> 
> No, this is because your system does not support it
> 
> 
> > > {imap.web.de/ssl}
> 
> Have you tried this before upgrading?

  Please forgive my ignorance, but what exactly do I have to do?
> 
> -- 
> Ralf Hildebrandt (Im Auftrag des Referat V A)   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Charite Campus Virchow-Klinikum Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
> Referat V A - Kommunikationsnetze - Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-916
> Backups?  We doan *NEED* no steenking baX%^~,VbKxNO CARRIER
---end quoted text---

-- 
Theo Bierman
Customer Implementation Team
UUNET S.A., a WorldCom Company
Tel: +27 11 235-6621
Fax: +27 11 235-6501
E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Customer Service Centre:  08600 UUNET / 08600 88638
http://www.uunet.co.za

Re: my-hdr entry disappears after editing headers

[Mr. Wade]

Andreas Herceg wrote:
> OK, I did not know that X-Label is that common. Now I thought
> of just defining 'X-Coprija: coprija'.
> 
> Now I would like to know if this would be against some standard
> which I do not know.

Will Yardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> replied:
> my understanding is that X headers are pretty much up for
> grabs.
> 
> i say if someone's going to be retarded about you using
> 'X-Label', screw 'em. it's their problem, not yours (and they
> can easily edit your message in mutt and remove the offending
> header, or they can strip it out with procmail if it really
> bothers them that much).

I tend to agree with Will, (even if I don't share his somewhat
confrontational attitude.)  Header feilds are meant to be useful
and informative; although, I sometimes think that some users let
them get a bit out of hand.  In any case, relying on a
user-defined-field for any significant purpose is a bit
fool-hardy.

An excerpt from  RFC #822 "Standard for the format of ARPA Internet
text messages":

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
  4.7.5 USER-DEFINED-FIELD
  Individual users of network mail are free to define and
  use additional header fields. Such fields must have
  names which are not already used in the current
  specification or in any definitions of
  extension-fields, and the overall syntax of these
  user-defined-fields must conform to this
  specification's rules for  delimiting and folding
  fields.  Due to the extension-field publishing process,
  the name of a user-defined-field may be pre-empted

  Note: The prefatory string "X-" will never be used in
  the names of Extension-fields. This provides
  user-defined fields with a protected set of names.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

-- Mr. Wade

-- 
Whip me.  Beat me.  Make me maintain AIX.

Re: my-hdr entry disappears after editing headers

[Andreas Herceg]

On Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 08:11:18PM -0500, David T-G wrote:
| Andreas --
| 
| ...and then Andreas Herceg said...
| % 
| % OK, I did not know that X-Label is that common. Now I thought of just
| % defining 'X-Coprija: coprija'.
| 
| If you were triggering something in mutt instead of in procmail then it
| might make sense, but you can tell mutt to act on arbitrary headers, too,
| so X-Coprija works for you either way.  And thanks :-)
| 
| No, X-* is for defining your own headers, and there is no end to the list
| of them :-)

That is exactly what I thought.

| It's simply that mutt specifically recognizes X-Label: just like other
| headers rather than ignoring them like other X-* vanity headers.

And this I did not know. Thank you very much, everything's clear now
again.



Andreas Herceg

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: mutt + ssl

[Ralf Hildebrandt]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 11:05:35AM +0200, Theo Bierman wrote:

>   I downloaded mutt-1.3.25i.tar.gz and ran ./configure --enable-ssl and got the 
>following error:
> 
> configure: error: no curses library found
> 
>  is this because mutt-1.3.25i.tar.gz does not support it?

No, this is because your system does not support it


> > {imap.web.de/ssl}

Have you tried this before upgrading?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (Im Auftrag des Referat V A)   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Charite Campus Virchow-Klinikum Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Referat V A - Kommunikationsnetze - Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-916
Backups?  We doan *NEED* no steenking baX%^~,VbKxNO CARRIER

Re: mutt + ssl

[Theo Bierman]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 09:36:52AM +0100, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:28:34AM +0200, Theo Bierman wrote:
> > Hi All
> > 
> > Does mutt come with ssl support? Here is my setup. My mail is sent to
> 
> Yes. At least you can enable it at compile/configure time.
> It's something like "--enable-ssl"

  I downloaded mutt-1.3.25i.tar.gz and ran ./configure --enable-ssl and got the 
following error:

configure: error: no curses library found

 is this because mutt-1.3.25i.tar.gz does not support it?
> 
> > another machine on my network. To access it I ssh to that other box
> > and then read my mail. The problem is when I want to attach files
> > from my machine I have to scp them to the other machine and the same
> > applies for saving attachments. A collegue of mine uses pine and with
> > ssl support and can send attchments form his machine while receiving
> > his mail on another.
> > 
> > Can someone please give me some instructions on how to enable this if it is 
>possible?
> 
> Append ssl to the mailbox name; I use:
> 
> {imap.web.de/ssl}
> 
> -- 
> Ralf Hildebrandt (Im Auftrag des Referat V A)   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Charite Campus Virchow-Klinikum Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
> Referat V A - Kommunikationsnetze - Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-916
> If you give someone a program, you will frustrate them for a day; if
> you teach them how to program, you will frustrate them for a lifetime.
---end quoted text---

-- 
Theo Bierman
Customer Implementation Team
UUNET S.A., a WorldCom Company
Tel: +27 11 235-6621
Fax: +27 11 235-6501
E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Customer Service Centre:  08600 UUNET / 08600 88638
http://www.uunet.co.za

Re: mutt + ssl

[Ralf Hildebrandt]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:28:34AM +0200, Theo Bierman wrote:
> Hi All
> 
> Does mutt come with ssl support? Here is my setup. My mail is sent to

Yes. At least you can enable it at compile/configure time.
It's something like "--enable-ssl"

> another machine on my network. To access it I ssh to that other box
> and then read my mail. The problem is when I want to attach files
> from my machine I have to scp them to the other machine and the same
> applies for saving attachments. A collegue of mine uses pine and with
> ssl support and can send attchments form his machine while receiving
> his mail on another.
> 
> Can someone please give me some instructions on how to enable this if it is possible?

Append ssl to the mailbox name; I use:

{imap.web.de/ssl}

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (Im Auftrag des Referat V A)   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Charite Campus Virchow-Klinikum Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Referat V A - Kommunikationsnetze - Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-916
If you give someone a program, you will frustrate them for a day; if
you teach them how to program, you will frustrate them for a lifetime.