Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[Stéph]

Ah, now there, we definitely do agree - All of the templates provided with 
the app are not good examples of implementation of the various 
methodologies. At best, they are simple starters, to give the users ideas 
about how they would use the MLO features. 

It would be a good idea for us to start creating and curating our own 
example templates.

Stéphane

On Monday, 30 March 2020 08:45:26 UTC+1, boats...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>  As I have said on this forum many times people oversimplify GTD.  It took 
> a 200 page book (now revised) to describe it. There are multiday GTD 
> courses to look at making sense of all its features. 
>
> We agree that MLO has many features which can be used for GTD. The problem 
> is knowing which ones can be used and what is the best implementation. This 
> takes me back to what I wrote. The MLO GTD template needs improvement and I 
> have sent them my effort which attempts to preserve the MLO industrial 
> strength e.g., the two part distinction between outline and list
>
> Warm regards/gary
>
>
> On 30 Mar 2020 at 7:39 am, Stéph > 
> wrote: 
>
> I don't think I agree about the comment on gtd, Gary. For its core lists, 
> David Allen just proposes a list of tasks for each context and a project 
> list - You can do this with a few sheets of paper, so you can definitely 
> make your MLO lists match this "strict GTD" system. However, MLO adds a 
> load of other (optional) task parameters, so you can use other systems (I 
> use a combination of Stephen Covery's "7 Habits" and the GTD, to make a 
> system that works for me). You can use as many or as few of the MLO 
> parameters as you need. 
>
> *However*, there is next to no scripting or inheritance for new or 
> modified tasks, so each parameter has to be entered or changed manually. 
> Each parameter you have to maintain means that you take longer managing 
> your system, rather than getting on with your tasks, so I'd recommend 
> keeping it as simple and using as few of the different parameters as you 
> can.
>
> Other than the flexibility of the task parameters, the great strength of 
> MLO is its search and filtering functions, which mean that you can set up 
> very many detailed, customised views of your task list, to help focus in on 
> just what you need to see at any particular time. I haven't seen more 
> flexible task management software, anywhere else, for this.
>
> Regarding John's list of requests. Here are my thoughts on the current 
> state of development (from the point of view of the desktop application, 
> though the mobile ones are similar):
>
> 1. Extremely easy/fast data entry - PARTIALLY. There are quiet a lot of 
> shortcut keys and customisable hotkeys. However, data entry is slowed down 
> by the need to manually edit all of the parameters, rather than being able 
> to set up any kind of inheritance.
>
> 2. Multi-levels of Projects and Actions - YES. The outline tree can be 
> nested to almost infinite depth.
>
> 3. Ease of changing an item between Projects and Actions - YES. Hotkeys 
> for toggling "project" and "folder" statuses, among other parameters.
>
> 4. Next Actions - YES, I think - I haven't used "complete actions in 
> order" or dependencies much, but they're available. You can also set up 
> custom filters to narrow down to the important next steps in each project.
>
> 5. The ability to send emails into the "In Basket" for processing (ideally 
> with tags embedded in the title) - ?DON'T KNOW.
>
> 6. Ability to put Projects (and Actions) into some sort of *priority *that 
> is can be sorted/reported on and which is clearly visible with *colour*.- 
> YES. Importance, Urgency, star, due dates, etc, combined with customer 
> filters, sorting and custom Automatic Formatting rules. 
>
> 7. "Focus" mark-up. - YES - I review my filtered and sorted task list and 
> use the Star to tag items I want to focus on, for the day. Alternatives are 
> flags or just relying on Importance, Urgency and Due Date to give an 
> automatic Computed Score and sort the tasks into order.
>
> 8. The ability do move projects up and down the list of projects FAST 
> using hotkeys - YES. I have the hotkeys set up as Ctrl+Alt+arrow keys. I 
> have hotkey Ctrl+Alt+M set up for the more free-form Move function - In the 
> pop-up Move window, you can select different views, so quickly change to a 
> list of projects or folders (or any other view you like) to help find where 
> to move your task. The F3 window is also very useful if you want to drag 
> and drop a lot of tasks to different locations in your outline.
>
> 9. Either a good web or PC application... - YES, the PC-application is 
> pretty good. NO for the web application.
>
> 10. ...that syncs well with a mobile app... that works off-line (as well 
> as on-line) - YES (*mostly*). I use PC and iPhone app. However, WiFi sync 
> has always been a bit of a pain to set up and maintain, unless you have a 
> static IP address for your PC and a single WiFi network that you alwa

Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[lewy]

for No. 5, there is Task by e-mail using Cloud Sync, which MLO sync service 
let you to send email as tasks to your inbox, 
you can check it from:
https://blog.mylifeorganized.net/2012/02/task-by-email-released-on-mlo-cloud.html

Regards,





On Monday, 30 March 2020 04:39:55 UTC+8, Stéph wrote:
>
> I don't think I agree about the comment on gtd, Gary. For its core lists, 
> David Allen just proposes a list of tasks for each context and a project 
> list - You can do this with a few sheets of paper, so you can definitely 
> make your MLO lists match this "strict GTD" system. However, MLO adds a 
> load of other (optional) task parameters, so you can use other systems (I 
> use a combination of Stephen Covery's "7 Habits" and the GTD, to make a 
> system that works for me). You can use as many or as few of the MLO 
> parameters as you need. 
>
> *However*, there is next to no scripting or inheritance for new or 
> modified tasks, so each parameter has to be entered or changed manually. 
> Each parameter you have to maintain means that you take longer managing 
> your system, rather than getting on with your tasks, so I'd recommend 
> keeping it as simple and using as few of the different parameters as you 
> can.
>
> Other than the flexibility of the task parameters, the great strength of 
> MLO is its search and filtering functions, which mean that you can set up 
> very many detailed, customised views of your task list, to help focus in on 
> just what you need to see at any particular time. I haven't seen more 
> flexible task management software, anywhere else, for this.
>
> Regarding John's list of requests. Here are my thoughts on the current 
> state of development (from the point of view of the desktop application, 
> though the mobile ones are similar):
>
> 1. Extremely easy/fast data entry - PARTIALLY. There are quiet a lot of 
> shortcut keys and customisable hotkeys. However, data entry is slowed down 
> by the need to manually edit all of the parameters, rather than being able 
> to set up any kind of inheritance.
>
> 2. Multi-levels of Projects and Actions - YES. The outline tree can be 
> nested to almost infinite depth.
>
> 3. Ease of changing an item between Projects and Actions - YES. Hotkeys 
> for toggling "project" and "folder" statuses, among other parameters.
>
> 4. Next Actions - YES, I think - I haven't used "complete actions in 
> order" or dependencies much, but they're available. You can also set up 
> custom filters to narrow down to the important next steps in each project.
>
> 5. The ability to send emails into the "In Basket" for processing (ideally 
> with tags embedded in the title) - ?DON'T KNOW.
>
> 6. Ability to put Projects (and Actions) into some sort of *priority *that 
> is can be sorted/reported on and which is clearly visible with *colour*.- 
> YES. Importance, Urgency, star, due dates, etc, combined with customer 
> filters, sorting and custom Automatic Formatting rules. 
>
> 7. "Focus" mark-up. - YES - I review my filtered and sorted task list and 
> use the Star to tag items I want to focus on, for the day. Alternatives are 
> flags or just relying on Importance, Urgency and Due Date to give an 
> automatic Computed Score and sort the tasks into order.
>
> 8. The ability do move projects up and down the list of projects FAST 
> using hotkeys - YES. I have the hotkeys set up as Ctrl+Alt+arrow keys. I 
> have hotkey Ctrl+Alt+M set up for the more free-form Move function - In the 
> pop-up Move window, you can select different views, so quickly change to a 
> list of projects or folders (or any other view you like) to help find where 
> to move your task. The F3 window is also very useful if you want to drag 
> and drop a lot of tasks to different locations in your outline.
>
> 9. Either a good web or PC application... - YES, the PC-application is 
> pretty good. NO for the web application.
>
> 10. ...that syncs well with a mobile app... that works off-line (as well 
> as on-line) - YES (*mostly*). I use PC and iPhone app. However, WiFi sync 
> has always been a bit of a pain to set up and maintain, unless you have a 
> static IP address for your PC and a single WiFi network that you always 
> use. WiFi sync no longer works for me, so I'm soon going to have to start a 
> (cheap) server-sync subscription. Either way, the sync conflict resolution 
> function and automated file backups are pretty thorough, though.
>
> 11. Excellent security/encryption of all my project data - PARTIAL. There 
> are other discussion threads on the lack of transport security and the 
> reliance on Amazon web server security for the server-side file. WiFi sync 
> could be more secure, if your WiFi networks are kept private and secure and 
> all the PCs and mobile devices are looked after.
>
> 12. A development team that has a history if being responsive to user 
> requests - PARTIAL. Since Alyona was hired, she's worked to respond to 
> questions and problems pretty quickly. Whenever I'v

Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[boatshed36]

 As I have said on this forum many times people oversimplify GTD.  It took
a 200 page book (now revised) to describe it. There are multiday GTD
courses to look at making sense of all its features.

We agree that MLO has many features which can be used for GTD. The problem
is knowing which ones can be used and what is the best implementation. This
takes me back to what I wrote. The MLO GTD template needs improvement and I
have sent them my effort which attempts to preserve the MLO industrial
strength e.g., the two part distinction between outline and list

Warm regards/gary


On 30 Mar 2020 at 7:39 am, Stéph  wrote:

I don't think I agree about the comment on gtd, Gary. For its core lists,
David Allen just proposes a list of tasks for each context and a project
list - You can do this with a few sheets of paper, so you can definitely
make your MLO lists match this "strict GTD" system. However, MLO adds a
load of other (optional) task parameters, so you can use other systems (I
use a combination of Stephen Covery's "7 Habits" and the GTD, to make a
system that works for me). You can use as many or as few of the MLO
parameters as you need.

*However*, there is next to no scripting or inheritance for new or modified
tasks, so each parameter has to be entered or changed manually. Each
parameter you have to maintain means that you take longer managing your
system, rather than getting on with your tasks, so I'd recommend keeping it
as simple and using as few of the different parameters as you can.

Other than the flexibility of the task parameters, the great strength of
MLO is its search and filtering functions, which mean that you can set up
very many detailed, customised views of your task list, to help focus in on
just what you need to see at any particular time. I haven't seen more
flexible task management software, anywhere else, for this.

Regarding John's list of requests. Here are my thoughts on the current
state of development (from the point of view of the desktop application,
though the mobile ones are similar):

1. Extremely easy/fast data entry - PARTIALLY. There are quiet a lot of
shortcut keys and customisable hotkeys. However, data entry is slowed down
by the need to manually edit all of the parameters, rather than being able
to set up any kind of inheritance.

2. Multi-levels of Projects and Actions - YES. The outline tree can be
nested to almost infinite depth.

3. Ease of changing an item between Projects and Actions - YES. Hotkeys for
toggling "project" and "folder" statuses, among other parameters.

4. Next Actions - YES, I think - I haven't used "complete actions in order"
or dependencies much, but they're available. You can also set up custom
filters to narrow down to the important next steps in each project.

5. The ability to send emails into the "In Basket" for processing (ideally
with tags embedded in the title) - ?DON'T KNOW.

6. Ability to put Projects (and Actions) into some sort of *priority *that
is can be sorted/reported on and which is clearly visible with *colour*.-
YES. Importance, Urgency, star, due dates, etc, combined with customer
filters, sorting and custom Automatic Formatting rules.

7. "Focus" mark-up. - YES - I review my filtered and sorted task list and
use the Star to tag items I want to focus on, for the day. Alternatives are
flags or just relying on Importance, Urgency and Due Date to give an
automatic Computed Score and sort the tasks into order.

8. The ability do move projects up and down the list of projects FAST using
hotkeys - YES. I have the hotkeys set up as Ctrl+Alt+arrow keys. I have
hotkey Ctrl+Alt+M set up for the more free-form Move function - In the
pop-up Move window, you can select different views, so quickly change to a
list of projects or folders (or any other view you like) to help find where
to move your task. The F3 window is also very useful if you want to drag
and drop a lot of tasks to different locations in your outline.

9. Either a good web or PC application... - YES, the PC-application is
pretty good. NO for the web application.

10. ...that syncs well with a mobile app... that works off-line (as well as
on-line) - YES (*mostly*). I use PC and iPhone app. However, WiFi sync has
always been a bit of a pain to set up and maintain, unless you have a
static IP address for your PC and a single WiFi network that you always
use. WiFi sync no longer works for me, so I'm soon going to have to start a
(cheap) server-sync subscription. Either way, the sync conflict resolution
function and automated file backups are pretty thorough, though.

11. Excellent security/encryption of all my project data - PARTIAL. There
are other discussion threads on the lack of transport security and the
reliance on Amazon web server security for the server-side file. WiFi sync
could be more secure, if your WiFi networks are kept private and secure and
all the PCs and mobile devices are looked after.

12. A development team that has a history if being responsive to user

Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[Stéph]

I don't think I agree about the comment on gtd, Gary. For its core lists, 
David Allen just proposes a list of tasks for each context and a project 
list - You can do this with a few sheets of paper, so you can definitely 
make your MLO lists match this "strict GTD" system. However, MLO adds a 
load of other (optional) task parameters, so you can use other systems (I 
use a combination of Stephen Covery's "7 Habits" and the GTD, to make a 
system that works for me). You can use as many or as few of the MLO 
parameters as you need. 

*However*, there is next to no scripting or inheritance for new or modified 
tasks, so each parameter has to be entered or changed manually. Each 
parameter you have to maintain means that you take longer managing your 
system, rather than getting on with your tasks, so I'd recommend keeping it 
as simple and using as few of the different parameters as you can.

Other than the flexibility of the task parameters, the great strength of 
MLO is its search and filtering functions, which mean that you can set up 
very many detailed, customised views of your task list, to help focus in on 
just what you need to see at any particular time. I haven't seen more 
flexible task management software, anywhere else, for this.

Regarding John's list of requests. Here are my thoughts on the current 
state of development (from the point of view of the desktop application, 
though the mobile ones are similar):

1. Extremely easy/fast data entry - PARTIALLY. There are quiet a lot of 
shortcut keys and customisable hotkeys. However, data entry is slowed down 
by the need to manually edit all of the parameters, rather than being able 
to set up any kind of inheritance.

2. Multi-levels of Projects and Actions - YES. The outline tree can be 
nested to almost infinite depth.

3. Ease of changing an item between Projects and Actions - YES. Hotkeys for 
toggling "project" and "folder" statuses, among other parameters.

4. Next Actions - YES, I think - I haven't used "complete actions in order" 
or dependencies much, but they're available. You can also set up custom 
filters to narrow down to the important next steps in each project.

5. The ability to send emails into the "In Basket" for processing (ideally 
with tags embedded in the title) - ?DON'T KNOW.

6. Ability to put Projects (and Actions) into some sort of *priority *that 
is can be sorted/reported on and which is clearly visible with *colour*.- 
YES. Importance, Urgency, star, due dates, etc, combined with customer 
filters, sorting and custom Automatic Formatting rules. 

7. "Focus" mark-up. - YES - I review my filtered and sorted task list and 
use the Star to tag items I want to focus on, for the day. Alternatives are 
flags or just relying on Importance, Urgency and Due Date to give an 
automatic Computed Score and sort the tasks into order.

8. The ability do move projects up and down the list of projects FAST using 
hotkeys - YES. I have the hotkeys set up as Ctrl+Alt+arrow keys. I have 
hotkey Ctrl+Alt+M set up for the more free-form Move function - In the 
pop-up Move window, you can select different views, so quickly change to a 
list of projects or folders (or any other view you like) to help find where 
to move your task. The F3 window is also very useful if you want to drag 
and drop a lot of tasks to different locations in your outline.

9. Either a good web or PC application... - YES, the PC-application is 
pretty good. NO for the web application.

10. ...that syncs well with a mobile app... that works off-line (as well as 
on-line) - YES (*mostly*). I use PC and iPhone app. However, WiFi sync has 
always been a bit of a pain to set up and maintain, unless you have a 
static IP address for your PC and a single WiFi network that you always 
use. WiFi sync no longer works for me, so I'm soon going to have to start a 
(cheap) server-sync subscription. Either way, the sync conflict resolution 
function and automated file backups are pretty thorough, though.

11. Excellent security/encryption of all my project data - PARTIAL. There 
are other discussion threads on the lack of transport security and the 
reliance on Amazon web server security for the server-side file. WiFi sync 
could be more secure, if your WiFi networks are kept private and secure and 
all the PCs and mobile devices are looked after.

12. A development team that has a history if being responsive to user 
requests - PARTIAL. Since Alyona was hired, she's worked to respond to 
questions and problems pretty quickly. Whenever I've had a significant 
problem, an email to support (or a post to the community) has got a pretty 
quick response. However, there are complaints that we don't get to see any 
development plans or timescales (probably because the team don't want to 
make any promises that they then can't achieve) and that many feature 
requests don't get a reply. I think we just have to be patient and accept 
that's how a lot of software companies work. MLO is much 

Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[boatshed36]

I sent MLO a GTD template in February for them to look at and help make
work. I sent them a follow up this week. I think it reinforces a few of
your points because a strict GTD is not possible without some extra
functionality. Some of your other requests are more general MLO
capabilities e.g. project hierarchy, colour coding. I am sure many people
would welcome them. Of course some may be doable now because the manual
lacks examples of how to harness MLO's industrial strength and we rely on
insights from peer users

Warm regards/gary


On 30 Mar 2020 at 1:35 am, John . Smith  wrote:


It's been a few months since I checked-in.

Have there been any new developments in any of the areas (which I list
below) when I sought back in 2014.

With thanks

J



On Monday, November 24, 2014 at 8:49:00 PM UTC, John . Smith wrote:
>
>
> Hello
>
> I am new to GTD and to MLO.  I have been using a web-only app called
> GTDNext. But I am frustrated that there is no mobile app version.  I am
> looking for a tool to automate GTD lists (David Allen)
>
> I am looking for a tool with the following features:
>
> 1. Extremely easy/fast data entry (using lots of hotkeys and only minimal
> use of the mouse)
>
> 2. Multi-levels of Projects and Actions (i.e. sub-projects and/or
> sub-action )
>
> 3. Ease of changing an item between Projects and Actions (and back).
>
> 4. Next Actions - i.e. the ability to generate a queue of future Next
> Actions for a Project, but with the ability to just show one Next Action
> per Project.  And as soon as you tick off an action as being complete, then
> the  next action in the queue immediately pops up as the official "Next
> Action" for the Project.
>
> 5. The ability to send emails into the "In Basket" for processing (ideally
> with tags embedded in the title).
>
> 6. Ability to put Projects (and Actions) into some sort of *priority *that
> is can be sorted/reported on and which is clearly visible with *colour*.
> i.e. I want to be able to see a screenful of items and without actually
> needing to read anything, to see which are the most urgent (about 4 levels
> of priority/color would be fine).
>
> 7. "Focus" mark-up.
> i.e. Separate from "priority" to have some bright colour mechanism for
> showing "has focus" (i.e. I have decided to do this item today)
>
> 8. The ability do move projects up and down the list of projects FAST
> using hotkeys. i.e. To change the sort order of both Projects and Actions
> within projects very easily
>
> 9. Either a good web or PC application...
>
> 10. ...that syncs well with a mobile app... that works off-line (as well
> as on-line).
>
> 11. Excellent security/encryption of all my project data
>
> 12. A development team that has a history if being responsive to user
> requests.
>
> In your opinion, how well does MLO match up?
>
> Many thanks
>
> J
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[Christoph Zwerschke]

Am 31.03.2018 um 13:27 schrieb asi:
The score issue that task without dates is treated as task that due 
today is really a problem.
The outcome is that a task that due tomorrow and needs my attention 
today, ordered below a task with no due date... No sense at all.

Is there any planned change for this? Any user voice to vote?


The user voice issue is here:
https://mlo.uservoice.com/forums/9235-general/suggestions/6511892-calculate-tasks-with-no-due-date-as-lower-priority

Not sure if anybody Uservoice is still used for feedback though.

-- Christoph

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Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[asi]

> The automatic sorting ("computed score priority") is one of the few 
> things that really need to be improved/changed in MLO because. The 
> problem is that it equates tasks without date (i.e. my "someday/maybe") 
> with tasks that are due today (my most important tasks). In my view, the 
> computed score should interpret "no date" as "date = infinity" instead 
> of "date = today". I really would like to see this changed or made 
> configurable so that automatic sorting becomes more usable. 



Hi Christoph,
The score issue that task without dates is treated as task that due today 
is really a problem.
The outcome is that a task that due tomorrow and needs my attention today, 
ordered below a task with no due date... No sense at all.
Is there any planned change for this? Any user voice to vote?

Thank you
Asaf

On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 2:22:29 AM UTC+2, Christoph wrote:
>
> Am 30.12.2017 um 22:31 schrieb Wallace Gilbraith: 
>  > If a task doesn’t have a Due Date - it’s not time-critical, and is 
>  > therefore a Someday task 
>
> Additionally, you can set "goal" to week, month or year, if you don't 
> have a fixed due date but still wont to indicate that you want to get it 
> done in the specified time frame. So for me, everything that has no 
> start/due date and no goal is automatically a "someday/maybe" task. 
> Using the review date it's possible to re-examine such tasks, whether 
> they should be deleted, keep being "someday/maybe", or should be 
> realized by setting a date or goal. 
>
>  > I still don’t use automatic sorting - figuring out how it works is a 
>  > Someday task 
>
> The automatic sorting ("computed score priority") is one of the few 
> things that really need to be improved/changed in MLO because. The 
> problem is that it equates tasks without date (i.e. my "someday/maybe") 
> with tasks that are due today (my most important tasks). In my view, the 
> computed score should interpret "no date" as "date = infinity" instead 
> of "date = today". I really would like to see this changed or made 
> configurable so that automatic sorting becomes more usable. 
>
> -- Christoph 
>

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Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[Christoph Zwerschke]

Am 30.12.2017 um 22:31 schrieb Wallace Gilbraith:
> If a task doesn’t have a Due Date - it’s not time-critical, and is
> therefore a Someday task

Additionally, you can set "goal" to week, month or year, if you don't 
have a fixed due date but still wont to indicate that you want to get it 
done in the specified time frame. So for me, everything that has no 
start/due date and no goal is automatically a "someday/maybe" task. 
Using the review date it's possible to re-examine such tasks, whether 
they should be deleted, keep being "someday/maybe", or should be 
realized by setting a date or goal.


> I still don’t use automatic sorting - figuring out how it works is a
> Someday task

The automatic sorting ("computed score priority") is one of the few 
things that really need to be improved/changed in MLO because. The 
problem is that it equates tasks without date (i.e. my "someday/maybe") 
with tasks that are due today (my most important tasks). In my view, the 
computed score should interpret "no date" as "date = infinity" instead 
of "date = today". I really would like to see this changed or made 
configurable so that automatic sorting becomes more usable.


-- Christoph

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RE: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[Wallace Gilbraith]

Dear all

 

For me, if a task has a Due Date - when that date comes round, it'll either 

*   get completed, or 
*   get deferred to a future date, or 
*   have its Due Date removed

 

If a task doesn't have a Due Date - it's not time-critical, and is therefore
a Someday task 

 

I still don't use automatic sorting - figuring out how it works is a Someday
task

 

My Outline has some 2,000 active tasks (of about 20,000 in total)

Each year I manage 4 or 5 large projects of some 500 tasks each, plus dozens
of smaller projects and routines

 

I love that MLO lets me organise my life the way I want to, and doesn't
force me to work to someone else's plan

 

Regards

 

Wol 

 

 

 

From: mylifeorganized@googlegroups.com
[mailto:mylifeorganized@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Lindsay
Sent: 30 December 2017 14:29
To: MyLifeOrganized 
Subject: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my
requirements? (list provided)

 

I see a couple of other folks have replied prior to be seeing this, but I
felt the need to chime in as well. I've been using MLO for many years, am a
BETA tester, and follow GTD. From my perspective:

1.  Only a project needs a status, and MLO has that.
2.  All tasks availability can be managed either:

1.  Using an "@Someday" context to show it is not for now (and I have
MLO automatically format them in a color that appears greyed out)
2.  Linked to another tasks that has to be done first and therefore this
particular task is not active
3.  The child of another tasks, therefore this one has to be done first
and not the parent
4.  In a list of tasks that are checked to be "completed in order"
5.  Adding a start date to not show things prior to a particular
date/time

In all those cases, my list of active tasks is showing me what is available
to me. Then I use contexts to provide my GTD contexts.

 

As David replied, I too manage hundreds plus of tasks on Android and Windows
and follow the GTD system.

 

I've even added my own custom icons to make it quick for my eyes to see
various types of activities.

 

I wish you all the best!

Elizabeth


On Friday, December 29, 2017 at 7:15:12 AM UTC-6, John . Smith wrote:

 

In the end, having tried MLO in about 10 different ways, and having spent
countless hours fiddling and configuring MLO, I eventually found MLO to be
unusable for GTD if you have fairly large numbers of tasks (e.g. 200+).

 

In particular the lack of a field that could be used as a Status field (that
unlike flags would 'inherit' sensibly) was a deal breaker.  It was a huge
shame because MLO is astonishingly powerful in so many ways... but there you
go. 

 

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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[John . Smith]

Hi Alan

> MLO is superb BECAUSE it only caters to the "techie" power user.
My central thesis is that it should do BOTH. 

To be honest when I first signed up I was appalled by various things 
particularly lack of explainer videos (now being gradually resolved) and 
various things about the help manual. From memory various things were 
simply wrong or out-of-date and it was missing various crucial things 
including various hotkeys. Even though MLO are a small company there is no 
excuse for not doing more user testing with new users.

J


P.S. Reminder: I have updated this wiki which now has the full list of 
keyboard shortcuts here:
http://www.shortcutworld.com/en/win/MyLifeOrganized.html




On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 3:32:33 PM UTC, Alan Grainger wrote:
>
> Hi J Smith
>
> MLO is superb BECAUSE it only caters to the "techie" power user.
>
> I have tried every other GTD and task management software out there. I've 
> been trying to find the perfect system for around 4 years. Last year I 
> discovered MLO and it absolutely changed my life.
>
> There are a plethora of user-friendly, simplistic, "mainstream" options 
> out there.
>
> There is only one MLO. My only regret was not finding it earlier!!
>
> On Friday, 20 November 2015 05:38:29 UTC+13, J Smith wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> chrisleeuk
>>
>> As previously discussed MLO is much more of a platform and less of an 
>> application.  All I am saying is that the confusing and cluttered nature of 
>> the inteface this is holding back sales dramatically. And that this is 
>> completely unnecesssary and a shame.
>>
>> Personally I have wasted countless hours trying to get MLO to do what I 
>> seek. Through pure bloody-mindedness I have tried using all sorts of 
>> dramatically different configurations. 
>>
>> Out of interest did you ever try GTDNext. I have my eye on them because 
>> unlike MLO they are incredibly responsive to customers. They are an 
>> extremely small team however they listen to all feedback and reply to it 
>> all - usually pretty swiftly (often within a day or two). They will give 
>> reasons where they don't implement stuff.  And they also release things in 
>> the modern way with lots of small incremental changes, which further 
>> encourages users to get involved and to give more feedback. In short they 
>> clearly seem to have read Eric Ries's best selling book "The Lean Startup" 
>> and seem to be putting into practice. MLO have a lot to learn from GTDNext.
>>
>> Yes MLO is find for geeks, but it is not fine for mainstream users.  And 
>> I simply can not imagine any of my non-geekfriends using it because the 
>> learning curve is too steep and the interface too cluttered/confusing.
>>
>> Which is a shame because it is superb in so many ways...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, 18 November 2015 17:54:23 UTC, chrisleeuk wrote:
>>>
>>> This is more a reply to the comments from John Smith.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> I regard myself as a techie, which according to your comments suggests I 
>>> don't fit into the definition of a normal human being :)  
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if that makes me some kind of super human, or a weird tech 
>>> geek, either way, I take it as a compliment.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> I'm sorry that you find the learning curve for MLO so challenging.
>>>
>>> I agree that MLO could probably benefit from a little more in the help 
>>> department and it always better to make software accessible.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> MLO is definitely powerful and configurable and no doubt learning all 
>>> the features does take time.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Personally I found that with MLO I could start small. I could learn to 
>>> use the basic task functionality without much issue. Gradually I learned 
>>> the more advanced functionality, but MLO did a good job of hiding all this 
>>> stuff away until I was ready.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> I've tried probably half of the software and services on your list of 
>>> competition. Many were easy to use and no doubt would appeal more to a 
>>> wider public. However in every case I found them either too limiting or I 
>>> had to bend my work flow and way of thinking to fit the product.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> With MLO I can configure it to fit me.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Your argument is principally that MLO will fail due to lack of mass 
>>> market appeal, or that it is inferior because it will be too difficult for 
>>> the average person.  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> It's a typically modern view that products must conform to the lowest 
>>> common denominator in order appeal to the maximum audience. That’s the kind 
>>> of thinking that, for example, results in big corporations creating some 
>>> truly dreadful, but highly profitable TV shows.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> MLO does require some investment of your time. It does require learning. 
>>> It’s highly specialized, and won’t appeal to everyone. 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> MLO as a company is small but it’s sustained itself for 15 years so far. 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Not every product needs to be all things to all people

Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[Alan Grainger]

Hi J Smith

MLO is superb BECAUSE it only caters to the "techie" power user.

I have tried every other GTD and task management software out there. I've 
been trying to find the perfect system for around 4 years. Last year I 
discovered MLO and it absolutely changed my life.

There are a plethora of user-friendly, simplistic, "mainstream" options out 
there.

There is only one MLO. My only regret was not finding it earlier!!

On Friday, 20 November 2015 05:38:29 UTC+13, J Smith wrote:
>
>
>
> chrisleeuk
>
> As previously discussed MLO is much more of a platform and less of an 
> application.  All I am saying is that the confusing and cluttered nature of 
> the inteface this is holding back sales dramatically. And that this is 
> completely unnecesssary and a shame.
>
> Personally I have wasted countless hours trying to get MLO to do what I 
> seek. Through pure bloody-mindedness I have tried using all sorts of 
> dramatically different configurations. 
>
> Out of interest did you ever try GTDNext. I have my eye on them because 
> unlike MLO they are incredibly responsive to customers. They are an 
> extremely small team however they listen to all feedback and reply to it 
> all - usually pretty swiftly (often within a day or two). They will give 
> reasons where they don't implement stuff.  And they also release things in 
> the modern way with lots of small incremental changes, which further 
> encourages users to get involved and to give more feedback. In short they 
> clearly seem to have read Eric Ries's best selling book "The Lean Startup" 
> and seem to be putting into practice. MLO have a lot to learn from GTDNext.
>
> Yes MLO is find for geeks, but it is not fine for mainstream users.  And I 
> simply can not imagine any of my non-geekfriends using it because the 
> learning curve is too steep and the interface too cluttered/confusing.
>
> Which is a shame because it is superb in so many ways...
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 18 November 2015 17:54:23 UTC, chrisleeuk wrote:
>>
>> This is more a reply to the comments from John Smith.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I regard myself as a techie, which according to your comments suggests I 
>> don't fit into the definition of a normal human being :)  
>>
>> I'm not sure if that makes me some kind of super human, or a weird tech 
>> geek, either way, I take it as a compliment.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I'm sorry that you find the learning curve for MLO so challenging.
>>
>> I agree that MLO could probably benefit from a little more in the help 
>> department and it always better to make software accessible.
>>
>>  
>>
>> MLO is definitely powerful and configurable and no doubt learning all the 
>> features does take time.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Personally I found that with MLO I could start small. I could learn to 
>> use the basic task functionality without much issue. Gradually I learned 
>> the more advanced functionality, but MLO did a good job of hiding all this 
>> stuff away until I was ready.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I've tried probably half of the software and services on your list of 
>> competition. Many were easy to use and no doubt would appeal more to a 
>> wider public. However in every case I found them either too limiting or I 
>> had to bend my work flow and way of thinking to fit the product.
>>
>>  
>>
>> With MLO I can configure it to fit me.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Your argument is principally that MLO will fail due to lack of mass 
>> market appeal, or that it is inferior because it will be too difficult for 
>> the average person.  
>>
>>  
>>
>> It's a typically modern view that products must conform to the lowest 
>> common denominator in order appeal to the maximum audience. That’s the kind 
>> of thinking that, for example, results in big corporations creating some 
>> truly dreadful, but highly profitable TV shows.
>>
>>  
>>
>> MLO does require some investment of your time. It does require learning. 
>> It’s highly specialized, and won’t appeal to everyone. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> MLO as a company is small but it’s sustained itself for 15 years so far. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Not every product needs to be all things to all people, but if you can't 
>> get on with MLO, you have a big list of other software that might meet your 
>> individual needs better.
>>
>>  
>>
>> MLO appeals to a niche market, and that’s fine by me.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, 1 December 2014 01:56:40 UTC-7, J Smith wrote:
>>>
>>> Obviously because I am new... that means in part I have no idea what I 
>>> am talking about. But partly it makes me a real expert in the NEW user 
>>> experience.
>>>
>>> The thing is I develop/managed websites for a living and I too would 
>>> regard myself as 'above average' technically and I also have a strong sense 
>>> of how users work.  
>>>
>>> To be honest, I do feel for the MLO team. Given where they are, it will 
>>> not be easy to get to where they need to get to in order to get anything 
>>> close to adoption by the mainstream audience. 
>>>
>>> I am being extremely persistent here because I have a fair

Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[J Smith]

chrisleeuk

As previously discussed MLO is much more of a platform and less of an 
application.  All I am saying is that the confusing and cluttered nature of 
the inteface this is holding back sales dramatically. And that this is 
completely unnecesssary and a shame.

Personally I have wasted countless hours trying to get MLO to do what I 
seek. Through pure bloody-mindedness I have tried using all sorts of 
dramatically different configurations. 

Out of interest did you ever try GTDNext. I have my eye on them because 
unlike MLO they are incredibly responsive to customers. They are an 
extremely small team however they listen to all feedback and reply to it 
all - usually pretty swiftly (often within a day or two). They will give 
reasons where they don't implement stuff.  And they also release things in 
the modern way with lots of small incremental changes, which further 
encourages users to get involved and to give more feedback. In short they 
clearly seem to have read Eric Ries's best selling book "The Lean Startup" 
and seem to be putting into practice. MLO have a lot to learn from GTDNext.

Yes MLO is find for geeks, but it is not fine for mainstream users.  And I 
simply can not imagine any of my non-geekfriends using it because the 
learning curve is too steep and the interface too cluttered/confusing.

Which is a shame because it is superb in so many ways...



On Wednesday, 18 November 2015 17:54:23 UTC, chrisleeuk wrote:
>
> This is more a reply to the comments from John Smith.
>
>  
>
> I regard myself as a techie, which according to your comments suggests I 
> don't fit into the definition of a normal human being :)  
>
> I'm not sure if that makes me some kind of super human, or a weird tech 
> geek, either way, I take it as a compliment.
>
>  
>
> I'm sorry that you find the learning curve for MLO so challenging.
>
> I agree that MLO could probably benefit from a little more in the help 
> department and it always better to make software accessible.
>
>  
>
> MLO is definitely powerful and configurable and no doubt learning all the 
> features does take time.
>
>  
>
> Personally I found that with MLO I could start small. I could learn to use 
> the basic task functionality without much issue. Gradually I learned the 
> more advanced functionality, but MLO did a good job of hiding all this 
> stuff away until I was ready.
>
>  
>
> I've tried probably half of the software and services on your list of 
> competition. Many were easy to use and no doubt would appeal more to a 
> wider public. However in every case I found them either too limiting or I 
> had to bend my work flow and way of thinking to fit the product.
>
>  
>
> With MLO I can configure it to fit me.
>
>  
>
> Your argument is principally that MLO will fail due to lack of mass market 
> appeal, or that it is inferior because it will be too difficult for the 
> average person.  
>
>  
>
> It's a typically modern view that products must conform to the lowest 
> common denominator in order appeal to the maximum audience. That’s the kind 
> of thinking that, for example, results in big corporations creating some 
> truly dreadful, but highly profitable TV shows.
>
>  
>
> MLO does require some investment of your time. It does require learning. 
> It’s highly specialized, and won’t appeal to everyone. 
>
>  
>
> MLO as a company is small but it’s sustained itself for 15 years so far. 
>
>  
>
> Not every product needs to be all things to all people, but if you can't 
> get on with MLO, you have a big list of other software that might meet your 
> individual needs better.
>
>  
>
> MLO appeals to a niche market, and that’s fine by me.
>
>
>
> On Monday, 1 December 2014 01:56:40 UTC-7, J Smith wrote:
>>
>> Obviously because I am new... that means in part I have no idea what I am 
>> talking about. But partly it makes me a real expert in the NEW user 
>> experience.
>>
>> The thing is I develop/managed websites for a living and I too would 
>> regard myself as 'above average' technically and I also have a strong sense 
>> of how users work.  
>>
>> To be honest, I do feel for the MLO team. Given where they are, it will 
>> not be easy to get to where they need to get to in order to get anything 
>> close to adoption by the mainstream audience. 
>>
>> I am being extremely persistent here because I have a fairly short 
>> time-window in which to get my entire life onto MLO... or give the heck up.
>>
>> I am also being persistent because there is MUCH wrong with all the 
>> competition that I have seen so far. But that won't last (see below). 
>>
>> What do I like about MLO?
>>
>> Well, on the up-side, there is a plethora of hotkeys on MLO, many of 
>> which you can configure yourself is great and it is dead-easy to whiz items 
>> things up and down multi-level Project Trees and also it's also trivial to 
>> switch items between being an action and being a Projects. [These aspects 
>> are astonishingly rare in the obvious competing p

Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[pottster]

Well said. I firmly believe that MLO should play to its strengths and 
continue to court the power user.

On Wednesday, 18 November 2015 17:54:23 UTC, chrisleeuk wrote:
>
> This is more a reply to the comments from John Smith.
>
>  
>
> I regard myself as a techie, which according to your comments suggests I 
> don't fit into the definition of a normal human being :)  
>
> I'm not sure if that makes me some kind of super human, or a weird tech 
> geek, either way, I take it as a compliment.
>
>  
>
> I'm sorry that you find the learning curve for MLO so challenging.
>
> I agree that MLO could probably benefit from a little more in the help 
> department and it always better to make software accessible.
>
>  
>
> MLO is definitely powerful and configurable and no doubt learning all the 
> features does take time.
>
>  
>
> Personally I found that with MLO I could start small. I could learn to use 
> the basic task functionality without much issue. Gradually I learned the 
> more advanced functionality, but MLO did a good job of hiding all this 
> stuff away until I was ready.
>
>  
>
> I've tried probably half of the software and services on your list of 
> competition. Many were easy to use and no doubt would appeal more to a 
> wider public. However in every case I found them either too limiting or I 
> had to bend my work flow and way of thinking to fit the product.
>
>  
>
> With MLO I can configure it to fit me.
>
>  
>
> Your argument is principally that MLO will fail due to lack of mass market 
> appeal, or that it is inferior because it will be too difficult for the 
> average person.  
>
>  
>
> It's a typically modern view that products must conform to the lowest 
> common denominator in order appeal to the maximum audience. That’s the kind 
> of thinking that, for example, results in big corporations creating some 
> truly dreadful, but highly profitable TV shows.
>
>  
>
> MLO does require some investment of your time. It does require learning. 
> It’s highly specialized, and won’t appeal to everyone. 
>
>  
>
> MLO as a company is small but it’s sustained itself for 15 years so far. 
>
>  
>
> Not every product needs to be all things to all people, but if you can't 
> get on with MLO, you have a big list of other software that might meet your 
> individual needs better.
>
>  
>
> MLO appeals to a niche market, and that’s fine by me.
>
>
>
> On Monday, 1 December 2014 01:56:40 UTC-7, J Smith wrote:
>>
>> Obviously because I am new... that means in part I have no idea what I am 
>> talking about. But partly it makes me a real expert in the NEW user 
>> experience.
>>
>> The thing is I develop/managed websites for a living and I too would 
>> regard myself as 'above average' technically and I also have a strong sense 
>> of how users work.  
>>
>> To be honest, I do feel for the MLO team. Given where they are, it will 
>> not be easy to get to where they need to get to in order to get anything 
>> close to adoption by the mainstream audience. 
>>
>> I am being extremely persistent here because I have a fairly short 
>> time-window in which to get my entire life onto MLO... or give the heck up.
>>
>> I am also being persistent because there is MUCH wrong with all the 
>> competition that I have seen so far. But that won't last (see below). 
>>
>> What do I like about MLO?
>>
>> Well, on the up-side, there is a plethora of hotkeys on MLO, many of 
>> which you can configure yourself is great and it is dead-easy to whiz items 
>> things up and down multi-level Project Trees and also it's also trivial to 
>> switch items between being an action and being a Projects. [These aspects 
>> are astonishingly rare in the obvious competing product that I have tried 
>> but I LOVE them in MLO!] Moreover you can have something called a "Folder" 
>> which is neither a Project nor an Action. It's a subject area. (Brilliant! 
>> But again, v rare in other apps...).
>>
>> On the down-side this has to be up there as being one of the hardest apps 
>> to 'learn how to drive' that I have ever, EVER come across. [And that's 
>> even after I have spent quite a lot of time reading up on GTD theory - and 
>> after I have even listened to an entire 2-day seminar by David Allen!]
>>
>> BUT I can't think of a single social or business friend who would put up 
>> with this level of difficulty of learning that I have experienced with MLO. 
>> Yes, some techies might well go for it... but any normal human being - 
>> Absolutely no chance!
>>
>> And it's no use saying "but it's very powerful and configurable". Life is 
>> short. We are aren't here for the fun of using your software... Ultimately 
>> we are only using these tools in order to *save* us time!  
>>
>> [Aside: MLO reminds me of the PC database software dBase clone called 
>> Clipper - anyone here old enough to remember that? It was indeed incredibly 
>> powerful and configurable but the learning curve to get anything useful out 
>> of it was about 3 months. Management

Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[chrisleeuk]

This is more a reply to the comments from John Smith.

 

I regard myself as a techie, which according to your comments suggests I 
don't fit into the definition of a normal human being :)  

I'm not sure if that makes me some kind of super human, or a weird tech 
geek, either way, I take it as a compliment.

 

I'm sorry that you find the learning curve for MLO so challenging.

I agree that MLO could probably benefit from a little more in the help 
department and it always better to make software accessible.

 

MLO is definitely powerful and configurable and no doubt learning all the 
features does take time.

 

Personally I found that with MLO I could start small. I could learn to use 
the basic task functionality without much issue. Gradually I learned the 
more advanced functionality, but MLO did a good job of hiding all this 
stuff away until I was ready.

 

I've tried probably half of the software and services on your list of 
competition. Many were easy to use and no doubt would appeal more to a 
wider public. However in every case I found them either too limiting or I 
had to bend my work flow and way of thinking to fit the product.

 

With MLO I can configure it to fit me.

 

Your argument is principally that MLO will fail due to lack of mass market 
appeal, or that it is inferior because it will be too difficult for the 
average person.  

 

It's a typically modern view that products must conform to the lowest 
common denominator in order appeal to the maximum audience. That’s the kind 
of thinking that, for example, results in big corporations creating some 
truly dreadful, but highly profitable TV shows.

 

MLO does require some investment of your time. It does require learning. 
It’s highly specialized, and won’t appeal to everyone. 

 

MLO as a company is small but it’s sustained itself for 15 years so far. 

 

Not every product needs to be all things to all people, but if you can't 
get on with MLO, you have a big list of other software that might meet your 
individual needs better.

 

MLO appeals to a niche market, and that’s fine by me.



On Monday, 1 December 2014 01:56:40 UTC-7, J Smith wrote:
>
> Obviously because I am new... that means in part I have no idea what I am 
> talking about. But partly it makes me a real expert in the NEW user 
> experience.
>
> The thing is I develop/managed websites for a living and I too would 
> regard myself as 'above average' technically and I also have a strong sense 
> of how users work.  
>
> To be honest, I do feel for the MLO team. Given where they are, it will 
> not be easy to get to where they need to get to in order to get anything 
> close to adoption by the mainstream audience. 
>
> I am being extremely persistent here because I have a fairly short 
> time-window in which to get my entire life onto MLO... or give the heck up.
>
> I am also being persistent because there is MUCH wrong with all the 
> competition that I have seen so far. But that won't last (see below). 
>
> What do I like about MLO?
>
> Well, on the up-side, there is a plethora of hotkeys on MLO, many of which 
> you can configure yourself is great and it is dead-easy to whiz items 
> things up and down multi-level Project Trees and also it's also trivial to 
> switch items between being an action and being a Projects. [These aspects 
> are astonishingly rare in the obvious competing product that I have tried 
> but I LOVE them in MLO!] Moreover you can have something called a "Folder" 
> which is neither a Project nor an Action. It's a subject area. (Brilliant! 
> But again, v rare in other apps...).
>
> On the down-side this has to be up there as being one of the hardest apps 
> to 'learn how to drive' that I have ever, EVER come across. [And that's 
> even after I have spent quite a lot of time reading up on GTD theory - and 
> after I have even listened to an entire 2-day seminar by David Allen!]
>
> BUT I can't think of a single social or business friend who would put up 
> with this level of difficulty of learning that I have experienced with MLO. 
> Yes, some techies might well go for it... but any normal human being - 
> Absolutely no chance!
>
> And it's no use saying "but it's very powerful and configurable". Life is 
> short. We are aren't here for the fun of using your software... Ultimately 
> we are only using these tools in order to *save* us time!  
>
> [Aside: MLO reminds me of the PC database software dBase clone called 
> Clipper - anyone here old enough to remember that? It was indeed incredibly 
> powerful and configurable but the learning curve to get anything useful out 
> of it was about 3 months. Management were NOT happy. And commercially it 
> simply *died* as hugely powerful and highly configurable as it was.]
>
> Now, after all the work the you good people at MLO have put into this your 
> extremely powerful tool, this is bad news indeed. 
>
> If you want a 'quick win' you could regain a lot of usability points at a 
> stroke simply b

Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[Dwight Arthur]

Any item that has uncompleted subtasks is considered inactive, so you won't see 
a project's title in the active actions list until you have completed all of 
its tasks. So, to see the project I'd recommend switching to the outline.  My 
favorite quick way to get there would be to double-click on the task line. I 
imagine that you would prefer a keyboard solution rather than double-clicking. 
I don't know one though, anyone else have a solution? 
-Dwight
Mlo betazoid on Android sgn2

On Nov 29, 2014, John Smith  wrote:

Meanwhile I have one more question.When you are looking at the Active Actions 
(in the To Do views) is there any way to go directly back to the Project of the 
Action?
Many thanks
J

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Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[Dwight Arthur]

It was my mistake to call "add task" a widget, its actually a shortcut. But you 
find it in the widgets section of the task drawer. Unfortunately it is named 
"shortcut MLO" so if you are looking at an alphabetical listing you have to 
look under "s".
-Dwight
Mlo betazoid on Android sgn2

On Nov 29, 2014, John Smith  wrote:
>Dwight - excellent. Lots of useful pointers.
>
>A couple of points:
>What is this Ad-Task widget on Android of which you speak? Is this part
>of 
>the MLO app or something I need to download separately.
>
>As anyone has read and liked the (excellent)  "The Lean Startup" by
>Eric 
>Ries will tell you, slow iteration cycles are tempting for developers
>(to 
>make sure everything is robust) but in the long run are generally a
>huge 
>mistake for the business. 
>
>I only half understand your comments on Point 8. It all seems rather 
>painfully fiddly for any normal user, but I shall experiment and
>revert.
>
>Meanwhile I have one more question.
>When you are looking at the Active Actions (in the To Do views) is
>there 
>any way to go directly back to the Project of the Action?
>
>Many thanks
>
>J

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Re: [MLO] Re: Newbie question: How well would MLO match my requirements? (list provided)

[Alec Stewart]

Obviously because I am new... that means in part I have no idea what I am
talking about. But partly it makes me a real expert in the NEW user
experience.

The thing is I develop/managed websites for a living and I too would regard
myself as 'above average' technically and I also have a strong sense of how
users work.

To be honest, I do feel for the MLO team. Given where they are, it will not
be easy to get to where they need to get to in order to get anything close
to adoption by the mainstream audience.

I am being extremely persistent here because I have a fairly short
time-window in which to get my entire life onto MLO... or give the heck up.

I am also being persistent because there is MUCH wrong with all the
competition that I have seen so far. But that won't last (see below).

What do I like about MLO?

Well, on the up-side, there is a plethora of hotkeys on MLO, many of which
you can configure yourself is great and it is dead-easy to whiz items
things up and down multi-level Project Trees and also it's also trivial to
switch items between being an action and being a Projects. [These aspects
are astonishingly rare in the obvious competing product that I have tried
but I LOVE them in MLO!] Moreover you can have something called a "Folder"
which is neither a Project nor an Action. It's a subject area. (Brilliant!
But again, v rare in other apps...).

On the down-side this has to be up there as being one of the hardest apps
to 'learn how to drive' that I have ever, EVER come across. [And that's
even after I have spent quite a lot of time reading up on GTD theory - and
after I have even listened to an entire 2-day seminar by David Allen!]

BUT I can't think of a single social or business friend who would put up
with this level of difficulty of learning that I have experienced with MLO.
Yes, some techies might well go for it... but any normal human being -
Absolutely no chance!

And it's no use saying "but it's very powerful and configurable". Life is
short. We are aren't here for the fun of using your software... Ultimately
we are only using these tools in order to *save* us time!

[Aside: MLO reminds me of the PC database software dBase clone called
Clipper - anyone here old enough to remember that? It was indeed incredibly
powerful and configurable but the learning curve to get anything useful out
of it was about 3 months. Management were NOT happy. And commercially it
simply *died* as hugely powerful and highly configurable as it was.]

Now, after all the work the you good people at MLO have put into this your
extremely powerful tool, this is bad news indeed.

If you want a 'quick win' you could regain a lot of usability points at a
stroke simply by doing a couple of explainer videos. A quick short high
level one for total newbies *selling* the whole concept (max 1-2 mins) and
a more detailed one for the converts telling us *how to use* the system
(8-12 mins). And then if you get a chance do another 5 or 10 and slap them
onto YouTube. And do them in English.

Having built this video the next thing you need to do is 'Primary Customer
Research' - newbie *user trials *! What you need is need about 8-10 users
who are not particularly technical sit them down in front of the software
and WATCH. Get them to talk their thoughts out loud. Video them.

Then show them the video and watch again. You will be appalled, I promise
you.

Honestly, you chaps have built a fantastic engine. But if you want to
appeal to *Mainstream* users (rather than *Early Adopters*) then frankly
you people need to stop all developments until you have done both of the
above.

To get clear Early Adopters have a very different psychology from
Mainstream users. Early Adopters like to be the first. They are generally
pretty clever. They like learning news stuff. They tolerate complexity,
mistakes, errors and even bugs to a significant extent.

BUT there aren't all that many of them. And if your product appears to be
going nowhere and is not longer "cutting edge", then they will feel like
idiots for wasting their time with you and they are off!

MAINSTREAM users are different. They value their time very highly. They
just want to get the job done. And fast. They do NOT want to waste any more
time than necessary learning stuff. So they want everything to be easy to
learn and obvious. They like simplicity. They HATE complexity. They want to
get the job done and they want everything to work.

Frankly as things stand, MLO is a total nightmare for Mainstream users. But
don't just take my/Joel's word for it. Do some serious trials with newbie
users! Try some less intelligent / 'ditsy' and/or 'arty' new users. Even
try some slightly drunk or extremely tired users. You need a random
spectrum of users to trail. They will run screaming I guarantee you.

[Aside: Another top top - if you are short of time &/or money and want to
do a 'quick and dirty'/'better than nothing' user trial, then consider
using Feedback Army and asking the reviewers to so somet