RE: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
The Simple answer is this,, There is a problem with the config or something on the computers that are having slowness probs with KDE2,, I have it running an a 200mmx with 64 mb of ram, it takes about 25 to 30 seconds to load, and is as fast as my PII450, it is also faster then win98 was on the same box... first thing I'd do if I ran into this problem, is download the src rpm's and rebuild them on the system that you plan on using them on... That will make some difference. (it probably runs well on my 200mmx because mandrake compiled it to me its all i586 (unless of course you only have an i586 in which case you will probably get no improvment at all) From this point on, I have decided as a general rule to rebuild all updates and downloads I do to any of my machines... It doesn't take much extra effort, and I think when I have my entire distro running on optimised code for my systems, it will make a substantial difference overall. give it a shot,, it certainly can't help regards Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of poogle Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2001 9:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8 On Monday 21 May 2001 14:11, you wrote: Irv wrote: From: Pelle Poluha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8 Hello! I'm working as a developer and needs a stable environment to develop and test deployments in. So I want to switch from Windows. I need stability but at the same time I want speed and a practical UI (read GUI). I need a smooth file manager, easy access to OS, an editor, browser, email client (the usual I guess) and a C++ Java IDE. That you'll have - but not with KDE 2, I'm afraid. Even people with 1ghz / 256 mb machines have reported slowness. My 300mhz / 128 meg pc is too slow to be usable, but not quite as slow as you report - usually KDE takes 30-40 seconds, and new apps or windows 10 - 20 seconds. The good news is that KDE 1.x works just fine. Try an older version of Mandrake or SuSE or RedHat. They're all plenty fast. I feel compelled to add to this. I'm running LM 8.0 w/KDE2 on a 400 PII, with great success! I've experienced NONE of the slowness reported. While I admit that some of the lean mean windows managers come up a lot faster, they're also doing a lot less for you. KDE is more than just a window manager, it's a desktop environment. Big difference. Anyway. Just wanted to throw that in. My KDE 2. runs great on a 400 PII. It has a modest 256MB ram, and about 30GB of disk to roam on. I'd suggest anyone getting performance as slow as is being reported, needs to do some serious digging into their configurations. Something is wrong. Ric I opted for Mandrake because I've heard a lot of good things about it. So I downloaded 8.0 last week and eagerly installed it on my AMD K333 machine (96 mb, Riva TNT) on a 2 gig partition. As I've followed the development of KDE with great interest, I chose KDE as default windows manager (and it has KDevelop). But it's really slow. Just loading Mandrake takes like 3-4 minutes. Some of it, I can understand. In the installation process, I included lots of apps and some of them gets loaded when Mandrake starts (like MySql and postgres, probably some more servers). But that surely doesn't account for the immensly slow loading of the OS. And then I start KDE... It takes another 2-3 minutes. And using it is awful. Loading a simple app might take 10-20 secs and everything just crawls. I just can't use it. I tried Window Maker instead and it worked better . But I don't want to drop KDE just yet. There must be something wrong with the configuration. I also tried Gnome but it started to look for a trash folder which it didn't find. Although I canceled that search, it seemed like it continued to search for the folder because the hd were working really hard all the time and everything worked even slower than in KDE. There are also some more strange things happening: - when I leave the windows manager and come to the 'console', I get a line typed on the screen all the time: Sending ICMP signal...failed (or something like that). It effectively stops me from working in console mode. - it seems like I've lost my internet connection. During installation, I selected 'DHCP-server' when asked for IP address. And I managed to do some surfing using Konqueror. But after installing Gnome and Window Maker, something must have happened to the configuration. - shutting down or restaring the OS always hangs the machine. - when I start Windows instead, using the boot manager, the initial loading process seems to be slower now than before. It's not a big deal because
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
On Monday 21 May 2001 14:11, you wrote: Irv wrote: From: Pelle Poluha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8 Hello! I'm working as a developer and needs a stable environment to develop and test deployments in. So I want to switch from Windows. I need stability but at the same time I want speed and a practical UI (read GUI). I need a smooth file manager, easy access to OS, an editor, browser, email client (the usual I guess) and a C++ Java IDE. That you'll have - but not with KDE 2, I'm afraid. Even people with 1ghz / 256 mb machines have reported slowness. My 300mhz / 128 meg pc is too slow to be usable, but not quite as slow as you report - usually KDE takes 30-40 seconds, and new apps or windows 10 - 20 seconds. The good news is that KDE 1.x works just fine. Try an older version of Mandrake or SuSE or RedHat. They're all plenty fast. I feel compelled to add to this. I'm running LM 8.0 w/KDE2 on a 400 PII, with great success! I've experienced NONE of the slowness reported. While I admit that some of the lean mean windows managers come up a lot faster, they're also doing a lot less for you. KDE is more than just a window manager, it's a desktop environment. Big difference. Anyway. Just wanted to throw that in. My KDE 2. runs great on a 400 PII. It has a modest 256MB ram, and about 30GB of disk to roam on. I'd suggest anyone getting performance as slow as is being reported, needs to do some serious digging into their configurations. Something is wrong. Ric I opted for Mandrake because I've heard a lot of good things about it. So I downloaded 8.0 last week and eagerly installed it on my AMD K333 machine (96 mb, Riva TNT) on a 2 gig partition. As I've followed the development of KDE with great interest, I chose KDE as default windows manager (and it has KDevelop). But it's really slow. Just loading Mandrake takes like 3-4 minutes. Some of it, I can understand. In the installation process, I included lots of apps and some of them gets loaded when Mandrake starts (like MySql and postgres, probably some more servers). But that surely doesn't account for the immensly slow loading of the OS. And then I start KDE... It takes another 2-3 minutes. And using it is awful. Loading a simple app might take 10-20 secs and everything just crawls. I just can't use it. I tried Window Maker instead and it worked better. But I don't want to drop KDE just yet. There must be something wrong with the configuration. I also tried Gnome but it started to look for a trash folder which it didn't find. Although I canceled that search, it seemed like it continued to search for the folder because the hd were working really hard all the time and everything worked even slower than in KDE. There are also some more strange things happening: - when I leave the windows manager and come to the 'console', I get a line typed on the screen all the time: Sending ICMP signal...failed (or something like that). It effectively stops me from working in console mode. - it seems like I've lost my internet connection. During installation, I selected 'DHCP-server' when asked for IP address. And I managed to do some surfing using Konqueror. But after installing Gnome and Window Maker, something must have happened to the configuration. - shutting down or restaring the OS always hangs the machine. - when I start Windows instead, using the boot manager, the initial loading process seems to be slower now than before. It's not a big deal because it works fine when Windows is loaded but it might give a clue to why the system is so slow when I start Linux. Please advice! Regards, Pelle Poluha Sweden -- Just to add my 2 euros worth - I run MD8.0/Kde 2 on a homemade AMD K6II - 450 - no problems with slowness Poogle
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
just 2 more cents i have mdk8 on a PI / 150MHz and it doesn't run as slow as some of the reports i have seen here. it isn't fast by any means, but considering the speed of that system (and it's age) i'm happy with the performance. Adrian Smith 'de telepone dude Telecom Dept. x 7042 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
On Tuesday 22 May 2001 12:56, Todd Flinders wrote: Yes, I'm especially interested in Civileme's tool he's working on to install a Maxtor controller card. I wonder if I should get that for RAID 0 instead of the 3ware. 3ware has good support, but only goes up to ATA 66. How important is ATA 100 anyway for RAID 0??? Should I even be concerned about that. I'm think that because I have 2 ATA 100 HDs (IBMs), that it would be a waste to get the 66 controller. Am I just being foolish? Is the 66 fine? My tests on ATA/66 and ATA/100 don't give you much to choose. the hdparm 64M read test seems to peak at slightly under 32 Mb/s for 66 and might go as high as 35Mb/s for ATA100. Both basically transfer data faster than it can spin onto or off the disk itself. My disk optimizer, which is based on a database, searches for a saddle-point where speed retuns diminish and noise immunity drops. The big surprise is that over half the ATA/100 setups I have tested end up with an ATA/66 setting from the optimizer, and most of those actually run faster at 66 (no repeats for channel noise problems). You actually do not need my tool to install using the cheap Maxtor card--it just eliminates a complicated series of steps that are a pain in the ass for experts and probably smoke and mirrors for newbies. Civileme --- Terry C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please let us know as soon as you have the disk optimizer available for testing, I'll be happy to test it for you. I am using and IBM 7200 RPM ATA 100 hard drive and I'm not getting the performance I should from it yet. TC --- Civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 21 May 2001 08:01, Irv wrote: From: Pelle Poluha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8 Hello! I'm working as a developer and needs a stable environment to develop and test deployments in. So I want to switch from Windows. I need stability but at the same time I want speed and a practical UI (read GUI). I need a smooth file manager, easy access to OS, an editor, browser, email client (the usual I guess) and a C++ Java IDE. That you'll have - but not with KDE 2, I'm afraid. Even people with 1ghz / 256 mb machines have reported slowness. My 300mhz / 128 meg pc is too slow to be usable, but not quite as slow as you report - usually KDE takes 30-40 seconds, and new apps or windows 10 - 20 seconds. The good news is that KDE 1.x works just fine. Try an older version of Mandrake or SuSE or RedHat. They're all plenty fast. Regards, Irv I opted for Mandrake because I've heard a lot of good things about it. So I downloaded 8.0 last week and eagerly installed it on my AMD K333 machine (96 mb, Riva TNT) on a 2 gig partition. As I've followed the development of KDE with great interest, I chose KDE as default windows manager (and it has KDevelop). But it's really slow. Just loading Mandrake takes like 3-4 minutes. Some of it, I can understand. In the installation process, I included lots of apps and some of them gets loaded when Mandrake starts (like MySql and postgres, probably some more servers). But that surely doesn't account for the immensly slow loading of the OS. And then I start KDE... It takes another 2-3 minutes. And using it is awful. Loading a simple app might take 10-20 secs and everything just crawls. I just can't use it. I tried Window Maker instead and it worked better. But I don't want to drop KDE just yet. There must be something wrong with the configuration. I also tried Gnome but it started to look for a trash folder which it didn't find. Although I canceled that search, it seemed like it continued to search for the folder because the hd were working really hard all the time and everything worked even slower than in KDE. There are also some more strange things happening: - when I leave the windows manager and come to the 'console', I get a line typed on the screen all the time: Sending ICMP signal...failed (or something like that). It effectively stops me from working in console mode. - it seems like I've lost my internet connection. During installation, I selected 'DHCP-server' when asked for IP address. And I managed to do some surfing using Konqueror. But after installing Gnome and Window Maker, something must have happened to the configuration. - shutting down
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
On Tuesday 22 May 2001 13:31, Irv Mullins wrote: On Tue, 22 May 2001, you wrote: Please let us know as soon as you have the disk optimizer available for testing, I'll be happy to test it for you. I am using and IBM 7200 RPM ATA 100 hard drive and I'm not getting the performance I should from it yet. TC I wonder if the new kernel is slowing down disk operations? Or something else? How can we benchmark our disk performance with Mandrake 7.1 and again with 8.0 to see if there is a difference? Regards, Irv Well, we had to take out the tuning parameters or else some rigs would have simply sat there--frozen on install. Too many trashy drives and buggy interfaces around. This is to replace what we removed with a huge database of drives and a lot more intelligence than could be built into the kernel. Civileme
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
Civileme: If you ever felt the need to post the results of these tests on a webpage somewhere, that would be really cool. I'd really enjoy being able to browse the database of hard drives/controllers and see their performance. That's probably a hefty project, though. :( --- civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 22 May 2001 12:56, Todd Flinders wrote: Yes, I'm especially interested in Civileme's tool he's working on to install a Maxtor controller card. I wonder if I should get that for RAID 0 instead of the 3ware. 3ware has good support, but only goes up to ATA 66. How important is ATA 100 anyway for RAID 0??? Should I even be concerned about that. I'm think that because I have 2 ATA 100 HDs (IBMs), that it would be a waste to get the 66 controller. Am I just being foolish? Is the 66 fine? My tests on ATA/66 and ATA/100 don't give you much to choose. the hdparm 64M read test seems to peak at slightly under 32 Mb/s for 66 and might go as high as 35Mb/s for ATA100. Both basically transfer data faster than it can spin onto or off the disk itself. My disk optimizer, which is based on a database, searches for a saddle-point where speed retuns diminish and noise immunity drops. The big surprise is that over half the ATA/100 setups I have tested end up with an ATA/66 setting from the optimizer, and most of those actually run faster at 66 (no repeats for channel noise problems). You actually do not need my tool to install using the cheap Maxtor card--it just eliminates a complicated series of steps that are a pain in the ass for experts and probably smoke and mirrors for newbies. Civileme --- Terry C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please let us know as soon as you have the disk optimizer available for testing, I'll be happy to test it for you. I am using and IBM 7200 RPM ATA 100 hard drive and I'm not getting the performance I should from it yet. TC --- Civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 21 May 2001 08:01, Irv wrote: From: Pelle Poluha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8 Hello! I'm working as a developer and needs a stable environment to develop and test deployments in. So I want to switch from Windows. I need stability but at the same time I want speed and a practical UI (read GUI). I need a smooth file manager, easy access to OS, an editor, browser, email client (the usual I guess) and a C++ Java IDE. That you'll have - but not with KDE 2, I'm afraid. Even people with 1ghz / 256 mb machines have reported slowness. My 300mhz / 128 meg pc is too slow to be usable, but not quite as slow as you report - usually KDE takes 30-40 seconds, and new apps or windows 10 - 20 seconds. The good news is that KDE 1.x works just fine. Try an older version of Mandrake or SuSE or RedHat. They're all plenty fast. Regards, Irv I opted for Mandrake because I've heard a lot of good things about it. So I downloaded 8.0 last week and eagerly installed it on my AMD K333 machine (96 mb, Riva TNT) on a 2 gig partition. As I've followed the development of KDE with great interest, I chose KDE as default windows manager (and it has KDevelop). But it's really slow. Just loading Mandrake takes like 3-4 minutes. Some of it, I can understand. In the installation process, I included lots of apps and some of them gets loaded when Mandrake starts (like MySql and postgres, probably some more servers). But that surely doesn't account for the immensly slow loading of the OS. And then I start KDE... It takes another 2-3 minutes. And using it is awful. Loading a simple app might take 10-20 secs and everything just crawls. I === message truncated === __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
On Monday 21 May 2001 08:01, Irv wrote: From: Pelle Poluha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8 Hello! I'm working as a developer and needs a stable environment to develop and test deployments in. So I want to switch from Windows. I need stability but at the same time I want speed and a practical UI (read GUI). I need a smooth file manager, easy access to OS, an editor, browser, email client (the usual I guess) and a C++ Java IDE. That you'll have - but not with KDE 2, I'm afraid. Even people with 1ghz / 256 mb machines have reported slowness. My 300mhz / 128 meg pc is too slow to be usable, but not quite as slow as you report - usually KDE takes 30-40 seconds, and new apps or windows 10 - 20 seconds. The good news is that KDE 1.x works just fine. Try an older version of Mandrake or SuSE or RedHat. They're all plenty fast. Regards, Irv I opted for Mandrake because I've heard a lot of good things about it. So I downloaded 8.0 last week and eagerly installed it on my AMD K333 machine (96 mb, Riva TNT) on a 2 gig partition. As I've followed the development of KDE with great interest, I chose KDE as default windows manager (and it has KDevelop). But it's really slow. Just loading Mandrake takes like 3-4 minutes. Some of it, I can understand. In the installation process, I included lots of apps and some of them gets loaded when Mandrake starts (like MySql and postgres, probably some more servers). But that surely doesn't account for the immensly slow loading of the OS. And then I start KDE... It takes another 2-3 minutes. And using it is awful. Loading a simple app might take 10-20 secs and everything just crawls. I just can't use it. I tried Window Maker instead and it worked better. But I don't want to drop KDE just yet. There must be something wrong with the configuration. I also tried Gnome but it started to look for a trash folder which it didn't find. Although I canceled that search, it seemed like it continued to search for the folder because the hd were working really hard all the time and everything worked even slower than in KDE. There are also some more strange things happening: - when I leave the windows manager and come to the 'console', I get a line typed on the screen all the time: Sending ICMP signal...failed (or something like that). It effectively stops me from working in console mode. - it seems like I've lost my internet connection. During installation, I selected 'DHCP-server' when asked for IP address. And I managed to do some surfing using Konqueror. But after installing Gnome and Window Maker, something must have happened to the configuration. - shutting down or restaring the OS always hangs the machine. - when I start Windows instead, using the boot manager, the initial loading process seems to be slower now than before. It's not a big deal because it works fine when Windows is loaded but it might give a clue to why the system is so slow when I start Linux. Please advice! Regards, Pelle Poluha Sweden G! The speed you perceive will be related to the performance of your HDDs more than any other single factor. I am doing fine with a Celeron 366 and a well-tuned disk drive which turns up a read rate of 31.89Mb/s I should have a disk optimizer out next week for testing. It will probably make a world of difference. Civileme
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
On Monday 21 May 2001 23:42, you wrote: I have three machines, running 7.2 and kde 2 One is a P2450 with 128mb ram, and it flies with kde2 the other, is a P200mmx with 64 mb of ram,,, this one is a gateway system but I put kde2 on it anyway, and I'd have to say that one isn't even that much slower then the PII450 The third is a PIII800 with 128 and it zips along just fine dunno what all the fuss is about.. regards Frank Well, the problem is that a relatively large percentage of the people who try KDE 2 are unable to get it ro run fast enough to be usable. About 50% of the people who responded to this question on the ALE list reported slowness. Not just newbies; also experienced Linux developers have reported the same problems. The concern expressed by these developers was that they want their software to _continue_ to run at a usable speed even if their customers upgrade to the latest version of KDE. If they can't count on that being true, then they probably won't encourage their clients to use Linux.. The most common reply I've gotten is your configurationi is messed up'. I suppose that might be possible if I had _done_ any configuration, but I only installed the CD's onto a blank, formatted disk, using the defaults. Using the exact same method with Mandrake 7.1, everything works fine. Same is true of SuSE 6.3, 6.4, Slack 4.0, TurboLinux 6, Debian... So if the configuration is screwed, it's nothing I'm doing. Add to that the fact that the developers mentioned earlier certainly have the skills to find and fix a mis-configuration - but have neither found one nor have they been able to fix it. I don't have those skills, so all I have been abto to do is to confirm that there aren't a lot of extra processes running - no httpd, no ftpd, etc. Yet, with none of these services running, the computer is much slower than it is with M7.1 running with every possible service activated. Puzzling. Regards, Irv
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
Please let us know as soon as you have the disk optimizer available for testing, I'll be happy to test it for you. I am using and IBM 7200 RPM ATA 100 hard drive and I'm not getting the performance I should from it yet. TC --- Civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 21 May 2001 08:01, Irv wrote: From: Pelle Poluha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8 Hello! I'm working as a developer and needs a stable environment to develop and test deployments in. So I want to switch from Windows. I need stability but at the same time I want speed and a practical UI (read GUI). I need a smooth file manager, easy access to OS, an editor, browser, email client (the usual I guess) and a C++ Java IDE. That you'll have - but not with KDE 2, I'm afraid. Even people with 1ghz / 256 mb machines have reported slowness. My 300mhz / 128 meg pc is too slow to be usable, but not quite as slow as you report - usually KDE takes 30-40 seconds, and new apps or windows 10 - 20 seconds. The good news is that KDE 1.x works just fine. Try an older version of Mandrake or SuSE or RedHat. They're all plenty fast. Regards, Irv I opted for Mandrake because I've heard a lot of good things about it. So I downloaded 8.0 last week and eagerly installed it on my AMD K333 machine (96 mb, Riva TNT) on a 2 gig partition. As I've followed the development of KDE with great interest, I chose KDE as default windows manager (and it has KDevelop). But it's really slow. Just loading Mandrake takes like 3-4 minutes. Some of it, I can understand. In the installation process, I included lots of apps and some of them gets loaded when Mandrake starts (like MySql and postgres, probably some more servers). But that surely doesn't account for the immensly slow loading of the OS. And then I start KDE... It takes another 2-3 minutes. And using it is awful. Loading a simple app might take 10-20 secs and everything just crawls. I just can't use it. I tried Window Maker instead and it worked better. But I don't want to drop KDE just yet. There must be something wrong with the configuration. I also tried Gnome but it started to look for a trash folder which it didn't find. Although I canceled that search, it seemed like it continued to search for the folder because the hd were working really hard all the time and everything worked even slower than in KDE. There are also some more strange things happening: - when I leave the windows manager and come to the 'console', I get a line typed on the screen all the time: Sending ICMP signal...failed (or something like that). It effectively stops me from working in console mode. - it seems like I've lost my internet connection. During installation, I selected 'DHCP-server' when asked for IP address. And I managed to do some surfing using Konqueror. But after installing Gnome and Window Maker, something must have happened to the configuration. - shutting down or restaring the OS always hangs the machine. - when I start Windows instead, using the boot manager, the initial loading process seems to be slower now than before. It's not a big deal because it works fine when Windows is loaded but it might give a clue to why the system is so slow when I start Linux. Please advice! Regards, Pelle Poluha Sweden G! The speed you perceive will be related to the performance of your HDDs more than any other single factor. I am doing fine with a Celeron 366 and a well-tuned disk drive which turns up a read rate of 31.89Mb/s I should have a disk optimizer out next week for testing. It will probably make a world of difference. Civileme __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
RE: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
I expect that there is a confict with some driver with some systems or something,, That might be why it only effects some systems... There is no other easy explanation Its got to be a conflict of some sort, otherwise it would effect everyone... regards Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Irv Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2001 9:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8 On Monday 21 May 2001 23:42, you wrote: I have three machines, running 7.2 and kde 2 One is a P2450 with 128mb ram, and it flies with kde2 the other, is a P200mmx with 64 mb of ram,,, this one is a gateway system but I put kde2 on it anyway, and I'd have to say that one isn't even that much slower then the PII450 The third is a PIII800 with 128 and it zips along just fine dunno what all the fuss is about.. regards Frank Well, the problem is that a relatively large percentage of the people who try KDE 2 are unable to get it ro run fast enough to be usable. About 50% of the people who responded to this question on the ALE list reported slowness. Not just newbies; also experienced Linux developers have reported the same problems. The concern expressed by these developers was that they want their software to _continue_ to run at a usable speed even if their customers upgrade to the latest version of KDE. If they can't count on that being true, then they probably won't encourage their clients to use Linux.. The most common reply I've gotten is your configurationi is messed up'. I suppose that might be possible if I had _done_ any configuration, but I only installed the CD's onto a blank, formatted disk, using the defaults. Using the exact same method with Mandrake 7.1, everything works fine. Same is true of SuSE 6.3, 6.4, Slack 4.0, TurboLinux 6, Debian... So if the configuration is screwed, it's nothing I'm doing. Add to that the fact that the developers mentioned earlier certainly have the skills to find and fix a mis-configuration - but have neither found one nor have they been able to fix it. I don't have those skills, so all I have been abto to do is to confirm that there aren't a lot of extra processes running - no httpd, no ftpd, etc. Yet, with none of these services running, the computer is much slower than it is with M7.1 running with every possible service activated. Puzzling. Regards, Irv
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
On Tue, 22 May 2001, you wrote: Please let us know as soon as you have the disk optimizer available for testing, I'll be happy to test it for you. I am using and IBM 7200 RPM ATA 100 hard drive and I'm not getting the performance I should from it yet. TC I wonder if the new kernel is slowing down disk operations? Or something else? How can we benchmark our disk performance with Mandrake 7.1 and again with 8.0 to see if there is a difference? Regards, Irv
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
hdparm -Tt /dev/hda or whatever --- Irv Mullins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 22 May 2001, you wrote: Please let us know as soon as you have the disk optimizer available for testing, I'll be happy to test it for you. I am using and IBM 7200 RPM ATA 100 hard drive and I'm not getting the performance I should from it yet. TC I wonder if the new kernel is slowing down disk operations? Or something else? How can we benchmark our disk performance with Mandrake 7.1 and again with 8.0 to see if there is a difference? Regards, Irv __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
Yes, I'm especially interested in Civileme's tool he's working on to install a Maxtor controller card. I wonder if I should get that for RAID 0 instead of the 3ware. 3ware has good support, but only goes up to ATA 66. How important is ATA 100 anyway for RAID 0??? Should I even be concerned about that. I'm think that because I have 2 ATA 100 HDs (IBMs), that it would be a waste to get the 66 controller. Am I just being foolish? Is the 66 fine? --- Terry C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please let us know as soon as you have the disk optimizer available for testing, I'll be happy to test it for you. I am using and IBM 7200 RPM ATA 100 hard drive and I'm not getting the performance I should from it yet. TC --- Civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 21 May 2001 08:01, Irv wrote: From: Pelle Poluha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8 Hello! I'm working as a developer and needs a stable environment to develop and test deployments in. So I want to switch from Windows. I need stability but at the same time I want speed and a practical UI (read GUI). I need a smooth file manager, easy access to OS, an editor, browser, email client (the usual I guess) and a C++ Java IDE. That you'll have - but not with KDE 2, I'm afraid. Even people with 1ghz / 256 mb machines have reported slowness. My 300mhz / 128 meg pc is too slow to be usable, but not quite as slow as you report - usually KDE takes 30-40 seconds, and new apps or windows 10 - 20 seconds. The good news is that KDE 1.x works just fine. Try an older version of Mandrake or SuSE or RedHat. They're all plenty fast. Regards, Irv I opted for Mandrake because I've heard a lot of good things about it. So I downloaded 8.0 last week and eagerly installed it on my AMD K333 machine (96 mb, Riva TNT) on a 2 gig partition. As I've followed the development of KDE with great interest, I chose KDE as default windows manager (and it has KDevelop). But it's really slow. Just loading Mandrake takes like 3-4 minutes. Some of it, I can understand. In the installation process, I included lots of apps and some of them gets loaded when Mandrake starts (like MySql and postgres, probably some more servers). But that surely doesn't account for the immensly slow loading of the OS. And then I start KDE... It takes another 2-3 minutes. And using it is awful. Loading a simple app might take 10-20 secs and everything just crawls. I just can't use it. I tried Window Maker instead and it worked better. But I don't want to drop KDE just yet. There must be something wrong with the configuration. I also tried Gnome but it started to look for a trash folder which it didn't find. Although I canceled that search, it seemed like it continued to search for the folder because the hd were working really hard all the time and everything worked even slower than in KDE. There are also some more strange things happening: - when I leave the windows manager and come to the 'console', I get a line typed on the screen all the time: Sending ICMP signal...failed (or something like that). It effectively stops me from working in console mode. - it seems like I've lost my internet connection. During installation, I selected 'DHCP-server' when asked for IP address. And I managed to do some surfing using Konqueror. But after installing Gnome and Window Maker, something must have happened to the configuration. - shutting down or restaring the OS always hangs the machine. - when I start Windows instead, using the boot manager, the initial loading process seems to be slower now than before. It's not a big deal because it works fine when Windows is loaded but it might give a clue to why the system is so slow when I start Linux. Please advice! Regards, Pelle Poluha Sweden G! The speed you perceive will be related to the performance of your HDDs more than any other single factor. I am doing fine with a Celeron 366 and a well-tuned disk drive which turns up a read rate of 31.89Mb/s I should have a disk optimizer out next week for testing. It will probably make a world of difference. Civileme __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
On Tuesday 22 May 2001 13:23, you wrote: hdparm -Tt /dev/hda or whatever Thanks - I ran that on the 8 gig disk I use for Mandrake, first with 8.0, then 7.1. Mandrake 8.0 scored higher than 7.1 - so, it looks like disk i/o is not the cause of the dramatic slowdown (going from 7.1 to 8.0), I'm sure we will all appreciate any efforts to speed up the disk access nevertheless. Regards, Irv --- Irv Mullins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can we benchmark our disk performance with Mandrake 7.1 and again with 8.0 to see if there is a difference?
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
These results are not for sure, because right now I'm not sure if I have a defective promise ultra 66 card or a motherboard that is having a conflict with the promise card.(abit BF6 motherboard, 20 gig 7200 rpm 100ATA Maxtor Drive, 30 gig 7200 rpm 100ATA Maxtor Drive, promise ultra 66 pci controller card non raid version).and I obtained a 100 ata maxtor harddrive same time as different motherboard. The card did work fine previously with a 66 dma harddrive until the drive died and was sent in for warranty. Approximately the same time the secondary EIDE port on the previous motherboard died(controlling cd roms only though) However the maxtor utility program is indicating that my system bios does not support large drivestake out the promise card and all is well with no errorsthe drives formated with the promise card did have problems with partition tables and were showing like 100 Mg of the drive was being unused and not formatted at all. Fdisked and reformatted and all is normal again without the promise card. My theory at this point is that there may be a possibility that some controller cards rated at 66 ata with the new 100 ata drives are not compatible, however I have no sure way to test this.but if I were in the market...I'd definately go for the 100 ATA version. Surprisingly the drives now running directly on the EIDE ports have lost little performance, in fact it seems like the access time is even better, especially for small amounts of data. The only place I notice any loss is when opening large programs that require a lot of data from the harddrive to open. Boot speed has not changed at all it seems. My computer is rock stable now in windows and MD8.0 and seems to be much better then any system I've ever had for stability...so with these controller cards are we trading off reliability and stability for the speed!!! Any other opinions on this subject? Tazmun How important is ATA 100 anyway for RAID 0??? Should I even be concerned about that. I'm think that because I have 2 ATA 100 HDs (IBMs), that it would be a waste to get the 66 controller. Am I just being foolish? Is the 66 fine?
RE: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
I use a 40 gig Maxtor ata100 on a ata66 onboard controller and don't have KDE performance problems. I was also wondering if I were correct in making this observation: I have read somewhere that version numbers in program names typically list the major revision number first, the secondary revision number, then which build. Or something worded along those lines but more clear and intelligible. But keeping this in mind, am I wrong in considering KDE 2.1 to be a beta version of a future KDE 2.2? If this were the case, then wouldn't it be correct in assuming the existence of at least one or two major bugs in the application when utilizing new software integration, perhaps optimizations for the newer 2.4 kernel, and whatever else the KDE teams has decided to work on? Sincerely and respectfully, Hans N. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tazmun Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:31 PM To: Newbie Subject: Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8 These results are not for sure, because right now I'm not sure if I have a defective promise ultra 66 card or a motherboard that is having a conflict with the promise card.(abit BF6 motherboard, 20 gig 7200 rpm 100ATA Maxtor Drive, 30 gig 7200 rpm 100ATA Maxtor Drive, promise ultra 66 pci controller card non raid version).and I obtained a 100 ata maxtor harddrive same time as different motherboard. The card did work fine previously with a 66 dma harddrive until the drive died and was sent in for warranty. Approximately the same time the secondary EIDE port on the previous motherboard died(controlling cd roms only though) However the maxtor utility program is indicating that my system bios does not support large drivestake out the promise card and all is well with no errorsthe drives formated with the promise card did have problems with partition tables and were showing like 100 Mg of the drive was being unused and not formatted at all. Fdisked and reformatted and all is normal again without the promise card. My theory at this point is that there may be a possibility that some controller cards rated at 66 ata with the new 100 ata drives are not compatible, however I have no sure way to test this.but if I were in the market...I'd definately go for the 100 ATA version. Surprisingly the drives now running directly on the EIDE ports have lost little performance, in fact it seems like the access time is even better, especially for small amounts of data. The only place I notice any loss is when opening large programs that require a lot of data from the harddrive to open. Boot speed has not changed at all it seems. My computer is rock stable now in windows and MD8.0 and seems to be much better then any system I've ever had for stability...so with these controller cards are we trading off reliability and stability for the speed!!! Any other opinions on this subject? Tazmun How important is ATA 100 anyway for RAID 0??? Should I even be concerned about that. I'm think that because I have 2 ATA 100 HDs (IBMs), that it would be a waste to get the 66 controller. Am I just being foolish? Is the 66 fine?
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
On Monday 21 May 2001 03:07, Pelle Poluha wrote: Hello! I'm working as a developer and needs a stable environment to develop and test deployments in. So I want to switch from Windows. I need stability but at the same time I want speed and a practical UI (read GUI). I need a smooth file manager, easy access to OS, an editor, browser, email client (the usual I guess) and a C++ Java IDE. I opted for Mandrake because I've heard a lot of good things about it. So I downloaded 8.0 last week and eagerly installed it on my AMD K333 machine (96 mb, Riva TNT) on a 2 gig partition. As I've followed the development of KDE with great interest, I chose KDE as default windows manager (and it has KDevelop). But it's really slow. Just loading Mandrake takes like 3-4 minutes. Some of it, I can understand. In the installation process, I included lots of apps and some of them gets loaded when Mandrake starts (like MySql and postgres, probably some more servers). But that surely doesn't account for the immensly slow loading of the OS. And then I start KDE... It takes another 2-3 minutes. And using it is awful. Loading a simple app might take 10-20 secs and everything just crawls. I just can't use it. I tried Window Maker instead and it worked better. But I don't want to drop KDE just yet. There must be something wrong with the configuration. I also tried Gnome but it started to look for a trash folder which it didn't find. Although I canceled that search, it seemed like it continued to search for the folder because the hd were working really hard all the time and everything worked even slower than in KDE. There are also some more strange things happening: - when I leave the windows manager and come to the 'console', I get a line typed on the screen all the time: Sending ICMP signal...failed (or something like that). It effectively stops me from working in console mode. - it seems like I've lost my internet connection. During installation, I selected 'DHCP-server' when asked for IP address. And I managed to do some surfing using Konqueror. But after installing Gnome and Window Maker, something must have happened to the configuration. - shutting down or restaring the OS always hangs the machine. - when I start Windows instead, using the boot manager, the initial loading process seems to be slower now than before. It's not a big deal because it works fine when Windows is loaded but it might give a clue to why the system is so slow when I start Linux. Please advice! Regards, Pelle Poluha Sweden It appears that your slowness is related to resolution and disks. Check your network connection, kill portsentry, if it is running and send the following outputs in a plain brown email. dmesg hdparm -i /dev/hda (repeat previous line for every hard disk drive) Also are you using reiserfs? Civileme
Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
Irv wrote: From: Pelle Poluha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8 Hello! I'm working as a developer and needs a stable environment to develop and test deployments in. So I want to switch from Windows. I need stability but at the same time I want speed and a practical UI (read GUI). I need a smooth file manager, easy access to OS, an editor, browser, email client (the usual I guess) and a C++ Java IDE. That you'll have - but not with KDE 2, I'm afraid. Even people with 1ghz / 256 mb machines have reported slowness. My 300mhz / 128 meg pc is too slow to be usable, but not quite as slow as you report - usually KDE takes 30-40 seconds, and new apps or windows 10 - 20 seconds. The good news is that KDE 1.x works just fine. Try an older version of Mandrake or SuSE or RedHat. They're all plenty fast. I feel compelled to add to this. I'm running LM 8.0 w/KDE2 on a 400 PII, with great success! I've experienced NONE of the slowness reported. While I admit that some of the lean mean windows managers come up a lot faster, they're also doing a lot less for you. KDE is more than just a window manager, it's a desktop environment. Big difference. Anyway. Just wanted to throw that in. My KDE 2. runs great on a 400 PII. It has a modest 256MB ram, and about 30GB of disk to roam on. I'd suggest anyone getting performance as slow as is being reported, needs to do some serious digging into their configurations. Something is wrong. Ric I opted for Mandrake because I've heard a lot of good things about it. So I downloaded 8.0 last week and eagerly installed it on my AMD K333 machine (96 mb, Riva TNT) on a 2 gig partition. As I've followed the development of KDE with great interest, I chose KDE as default windows manager (and it has KDevelop). But it's really slow. Just loading Mandrake takes like 3-4 minutes. Some of it, I can understand. In the installation process, I included lots of apps and some of them gets loaded when Mandrake starts (like MySql and postgres, probably some more servers). But that surely doesn't account for the immensly slow loading of the OS. And then I start KDE... It takes another 2-3 minutes. And using it is awful. Loading a simple app might take 10-20 secs and everything just crawls. I just can't use it. I tried Window Maker instead and it worked better. But I don't want to drop KDE just yet. There must be something wrong with the configuration. I also tried Gnome but it started to look for a trash folder which it didn't find. Although I canceled that search, it seemed like it continued to search for the folder because the hd were working really hard all the time and everything worked even slower than in KDE. There are also some more strange things happening: - when I leave the windows manager and come to the 'console', I get a line typed on the screen all the time: Sending ICMP signal...failed (or something like that). It effectively stops me from working in console mode. - it seems like I've lost my internet connection. During installation, I selected 'DHCP-server' when asked for IP address. And I managed to do some surfing using Konqueror. But after installing Gnome and Window Maker, something must have happened to the configuration. - shutting down or restaring the OS always hangs the machine. - when I start Windows instead, using the boot manager, the initial loading process seems to be slower now than before. It's not a big deal because it works fine when Windows is loaded but it might give a clue to why the system is so slow when I start Linux. Please advice! Regards, Pelle Poluha Sweden -- __ Ric Tibbetts Boeing Shared Services Group UNIX System Administration Seattle Server Operations __
RE: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8
I have three machines, running 7.2 and kde 2 One is a P2450 with 128mb ram, and it flies with kde2 the other, is a P200mmx with 64 mb of ram,,, this one is a gateway system but I put kde2 on it anyway, and I'd have to say that one isn't even that much slower then the PII450 The third is a PIII800 with 128 and it zips along just fine dunno what all the fuss is about.. regards Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ric Tibbetts Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2001 2:12 AM To: Irv Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8 Irv wrote: From: Pelle Poluha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Performance issues with Mandrake 8 Hello! I'm working as a developer and needs a stable environment to develop and test deployments in. So I want to switch from Windows. I need stability but at the same time I want speed and a practical UI (read GUI). I need a smooth file manager, easy access to OS, an editor, browser, email client (the usual I guess) and a C++ Java IDE. That you'll have - but not with KDE 2, I'm afraid. Even people with 1ghz / 256 mb machines have reported slowness. My 300mhz / 128 meg pc is too slow to be usable, but not quite as slow as you report - usually KDE takes 30-40 seconds, and new apps or windows 10 - 20 seconds. The good news is that KDE 1.x works just fine. Try an older version of Mandrake or SuSE or RedHat. They're all plenty fast. I feel compelled to add to this. I'm running LM 8.0 w/KDE2 on a 400 PII, with great success! I've experienced NONE of the slowness reported. While I admit that some of the lean mean windows managers come up a lot faster, they're also doing a lot less for you. KDE is more than just a window manager, it's a desktop environment. Big difference. Anyway. Just wanted to throw that in. My KDE 2. runs great on a 400 PII. It has a modest 256MB ram, and about 30GB of disk to roam on. I'd suggest anyone getting performance as slow as is being reported, needs to do some serious digging into their configurations. Something is wrong. Ric I opted for Mandrake because I've heard a lot of good things about it. So I downloaded 8.0 last week and eagerly installed it on my AMD K333 machine (96 mb, Riva TNT) on a 2 gig partition. As I've followed the development of KDE with great interest, I chose KDE as default windows manager (and it has KDevelop). But it's really slow. Just loading Mandrake takes like 3-4 minutes. Some of it, I can understand. In the installation process, I included lots of apps and some of them gets loaded when Mandrake starts (like MySql and postgres, probably some more servers). But that surely doesn't account for the immensly slow loading of the OS. And then I start KDE... It takes another 2-3 minutes. And using it is awful. Loading a simple app might take 10-20 secs and everything just crawls. I just can't use it. I tried Window Maker instead and it worked better. But I don't want to drop KDE just yet. There must be something wrong with the configuration. I also tried Gnome but it started to look for a trash folder which it didn't find. Although I canceled that search, it seemed like it continued to search for the folder because the hd were working really hard all the time and everything worked even slower than in KDE. There are also some more strange things happening: - when I leave the windows manager and come to the 'console', I get a line typed on the screen all the time: Sending ICMP signal...failed (or something like that). It effectively stops me from working in console mode. - it seems like I've lost my internet connection. During installation, I selected 'DHCP-server' when asked for IP address. And I managed to do some surfing using Konqueror. But after installing Gnome and Window Maker, something must have happened to the configuration. - shutting down or restaring the OS always hangs the machine. - when I start Windows instead, using the boot manager, the initial loading process seems to be slower now than before. It's not a big deal because it works fine when Windows is loaded but it might give a clue to why the system is so slow when I start Linux. Please advice! Regards, Pelle Poluha Sweden -- __ Ric Tibbetts Boeing Shared Services Group UNIX System Administration Seattle Server Operations __
