Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 03:50, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 02:55, Networks East wrote: I think you were trying to say without due payment it is theft. But we understand. Like I said before, people can try and rationalize it all they want. Stealing is stealing. People got caught. And it is not like they have not been warning everyone for YEARS to stop. Look - if the Recording Industry doesn't want people to steal their music (or share it) then: 1.) Stop playing it on the radio - it can be copied from there to tape or captured to a computer 2.) Stop selling CD's - it can be ripped/copied irregardless of prevention technology 3.) Lower prices internationally. 4.) Back off into a corner and die quietly. stephen kuhn - owner You're not suggesting that a large player in the music industry (such as Sony) should stop producing CD recorders and blank CDs CD-Rs, along with the blank tapes, are you? Paul M Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 18:21, Paul wrote: On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 03:50, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 02:55, Networks East wrote: I think you were trying to say without due payment it is theft. But we understand. Like I said before, people can try and rationalize it all they want. Stealing is stealing. People got caught. And it is not like they have not been warning everyone for YEARS to stop. Look - if the Recording Industry doesn't want people to steal their music (or share it) then: 1.) Stop playing it on the radio - it can be copied from there to tape or captured to a computer 2.) Stop selling CD's - it can be ripped/copied irregardless of prevention technology 3.) Lower prices internationally. 4.) Back off into a corner and die quietly. stephen kuhn - owner You're not suggesting that a large player in the music industry (such as Sony) should stop producing CD recorders and blank CDs CD-Rs, along with the blank tapes, are you? Audio CD's that have already been recorded to; if they don't want them copied, then don't sell them at all. stephen kuhn - owner == illawarra computer services a kuhn media australia company http://kma.0catch.com -- * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * We expressly refuse to utilise Microsoft DRM encoded documents -- boy, n: A noise with dirt on it. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 11:38, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 18:21, Paul wrote: On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 03:50, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 02:55, Networks East wrote: I think you were trying to say without due payment it is theft. But we understand. Like I said before, people can try and rationalize it all they want. Stealing is stealing. People got caught. And it is not like they have not been warning everyone for YEARS to stop. Look - if the Recording Industry doesn't want people to steal their music (or share it) then: 1.) Stop playing it on the radio - it can be copied from there to tape or captured to a computer 2.) Stop selling CD's - it can be ripped/copied irregardless of prevention technology 3.) Lower prices internationally. 4.) Back off into a corner and die quietly. stephen kuhn - owner You're not suggesting that a large player in the music industry (such as Sony) should stop producing CD recorders and blank CDs CD-Rs, along with the blank tapes, are you? Audio CD's that have already been recorded to; if they don't want them copied, then don't sell them at all. stephen kuhn - owner Should have added a 8-) The phrase regarding 'cake' and 'eat it' sprang to mind. Paul m. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
You're not suggesting that a large player in the music industry (such as Sony) should stop producing CD recorders and blank CDs CD-Rs, along with the blank tapes, are you? Incidentally, you noticed that *audio* cd-r's are like 10x more expensive than the same *data* CD-Rs, right? It's to subsidize the music industry but I doubt a penny goes to artists whose work might otherwise be compromised. Paul M David E. Fox Thanks for letting me [EMAIL PROTECTED]change magnetic patterns [EMAIL PROTECTED] on your hard disk. --- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:24:28 -0700 (PDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David E. Fox) uttered: n***gg*** this is unacceptable, even with the *'s. lose the racism or get lost. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ If you have to think twice about it, you're wrong. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
--- Original Message --- From: HaywireMac [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] This is just sickening On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:24:28 -0700 (PDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David E. Fox) uttered: n***gg*** this is unacceptable, even with the *'s. lose the racism or get lost. -- i haven`t kept up with this thread but if this person is indeed saying nigger then i agree completely that this type of mental midgetry has no place here or anywhere else for that matter. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:11:21 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Original Message --- From: HaywireMac [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] This is just sickening On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:24:28 -0700 (PDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David E. Fox) uttered: n***gg*** this is unacceptable, even with the *'s. lose the racism or get lost. -- i haven`t kept up with this thread but if this person is indeed saying nigger then i agree completely that this type of mental midgetry has no place here or anywhere else for that matter. Ditto Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:35:51 -0400 Lee Wiggers [EMAIL PROTECTED] scribbled furiously: On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:11:21 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Original Message --- From: HaywireMac [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] This is just sickening On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:24:28 -0700 (PDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David E. Fox) uttered: n***gg*** this is unacceptable, even with the *'s. lose the racism or get lost. Gives new meaning to the thread name. Mike -- The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life. --Muhammad Ali Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] This is just sickening
Quote: Twelve-year-old Brianna Lahara's love for TV theme songs, Christina Aguilera and the nursery song If You're Happy and You Know It made her a target of the multibillion-dollar U.S. recording industry. Yesterday, the seventh grader became the industry's first legal trophy in a massive crackdown when she promised never to share songs over the Internet again and her mother agreed to pay $2,000 (U.S.). Source: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030909.ucdcd0910/BNStory/Business/ these fuckers are going to rot in hell. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ If you wait long enough, it will go away... after having done its damage. If it was bad, it will be back. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 17:23, HaywireMac wrote: Quote: Twelve-year-old Brianna Lahara's love for TV theme songs, Christina Aguilera and the nursery song If You're Happy and You Know It made her a target of the multibillion-dollar U.S. recording industry. Yesterday, the seventh grader became the industry's first legal trophy in a massive crackdown when she promised never to share songs over the Internet again and her mother agreed to pay $2,000 (U.S.). Source: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030909.ucdcd0910/BNStory/Business/ these fuckers are going to rot in hell. No, that's where they've come from. Paul M Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
Now will they go after AOL/RoadRunner for there wireless hookup that make it easy for anyone to tap-in and dl for free? Completely anon. if they don't use email and set fake cfg user name. HaywireMac wrote: Quote: Twelve-year-old Brianna Lahara's love for TV theme songs, Christina Aguilera and the nursery song If You're Happy and You Know It made her a target of the multibillion-dollar U.S. recording industry. Yesterday, the seventh grader became the industry's first legal trophy in a massive crackdown when she promised never to share songs over the Internet again and her mother agreed to pay $2,000 (U.S.). Source: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030909.ucdcd0910/BNStory/Business/ these fuckers are going to rot in hell. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:33:08 +0300 Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: No, that's where they've come from. Oh, right. Well, there's gotta be some way they can be made to suffer. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Seeing is believing. You wouldn't have seen it if you hadn't believed it. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:10:07 -0400 Networks East [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: FILE SHARING IS ILLEGAL No, it's not. Sharing of copyrighted material is a violation of the copyright holders' rights, it is not theft, at least not in most civilised countries. Photocopying a book is not the same as removing the physical book from the store, it's a simple legal fact. Civil court vs. criminal court. Only in the US, and perhaps soon in EU, this could become equivalent, but copyright law was never intended to come under the same heading as theft. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Don't have good ideas if you aren't willing to be responsible for them. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wednesday 10 September 2003 16:33, Paul wrote: No, that's where they've come from. Paul M Yeah, and they already smell funny too. Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:10:07 -0400 Networks East [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Copyright laws exist for a reason, to prevent someone from stealing your product. Yes, copyright laws. But using techniques that invade a person's privacy, and using judgement that would shock a demon, is another matter. Oh, and BTW, it's not theft, that's a criminal offense. It's a violation of copyright laws is all, and that means that it is up to the copyright holder to pursue the matter through proper civil channels (due process of law), not use legal fictions dreamed up by bought-and-paid-for legislators to hammer people with what would normally qualify as criminal offenses themselves. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Don't stop to stomp ants when the elephants are stampeding. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:38:39 -0400 HaywireMac [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:10:07 -0400 Networks East [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: FILE SHARING IS ILLEGAL No, it's not. Sharing of copyrighted material is a violation of the copyright holders' rights, it is not theft, at least not in most civilised countries. Photocopying a book is not the same as removing the physical book from the store, it's a simple legal fact. Civil court vs. criminal court. Only in the US, and perhaps soon in EU, this could become equivalent, but copyright law was never intended to come under the same heading as theft. It does, however, feel very much like being mugged when you see your product with another company's label. Trust me Lee -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Don't have good ideas if you aren't willing to be responsible for them. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wednesday 10 Sep 2003 4:33 pm, HaywireMac wrote: On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:10:07 -0400 Networks East [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Copyright laws exist for a reason, to prevent someone from stealing your product. Yes, copyright laws. But using techniques that invade a person's privacy, and using judgement that would shock a demon, is another matter. Oh, and BTW, it's not theft, that's a criminal offense. It's a violation of copyright laws is all, and that means that it is up to the copyright holder to pursue the matter through proper civil channels (due process of law), not use legal fictions dreamed up by bought-and-paid-for legislators to hammer people with what would normally qualify as criminal offenses themselves. Don't want to start a war, but obtaining something with due payment is theft. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
Haywire Mac Do me a favor. Read my entire post and stop taking one liners It is against the law in the US to copy, pirate or what ever word you choose to use someones copyrited material. I HATE THE MUSIC INDUSTRY FOR WHAT THEY ARE DOING But the law is the law. If you are gonna post your one liners from my post, how about posting the part about contacting your Congressman or government officials and complaining. LETS CHANGE THE LAW. That was the point of my post. You probably did not read the whole thing. Read it again. - Original Message - From: HaywireMac [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] This is just sickening On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:10:07 -0400 Networks East [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: FILE SHARING IS ILLEGAL No, it's not. Sharing of copyrighted material is a violation of the copyright holders' rights, it is not theft, at least not in most civilised countries. Photocopying a book is not the same as removing the physical book from the store, it's a simple legal fact. Civil court vs. criminal court. Only in the US, and perhaps soon in EU, this could become equivalent, but copyright law was never intended to come under the same heading as theft. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Don't have good ideas if you aren't willing to be responsible for them. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:19:47 -0400 Lee Wiggers [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: It does, however, feel very much like being mugged when you see your product with another company's label. Yes, it does, and it is the price of doing business that one must be vigilant protecting one's IP, through civil and legal means that do not violate the constitution. Of course, NE is correct in that the democratic process is the way to get the kinds of practices engaged in by the RIAA and it's cohorts done away with. However, the RIAA has overstepped the boundaries of privacy, good taste, and dare I say, humanity, in this particular case, if not others. Keep in mind, also, that there is a big difference between unfair use of another's IP (ie. downloading a song you did not pay for), and commercial exploitation of another's IP. This little girl just wanted to listen to a coupla songs fer cryin' out loud! It's not like she was running a pirate CD store or something. I cannot emphasize the point enough, there is a HUGE difference between theft and copyright violation, that is the way it has been laid down in law for decades, if not centuries. The old downloading a song is just like stealing the CD from the record store line is bunk, and the product of spin doctors and lawyers who work for people who sold their soul a long time ago. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Murphy was an optimist. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wednesday 10 September 2003 11:10 am, Networks East wrote: Let me first say that I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE MUSIC INDUSTRY. And I think it is terrible that they are picking on children. For myself, I think it is terrible that they feel litigation is the only way to deal with a new business model created by technology. Much like a horse-whip manufacturer suing automobile buyers because they can't figure out a way to make money off of cars. Originally, the idea in the US was that you went to battle in the market-place and the best idea wins. Not that you use the legal system to stifle all other ideas and try to win by litigation. Regardless, the current policies of the recording industry are the desperate flailing of a drowning industry. They probably will change the current face of file-sharing, no doubt about that. By opposing it the way that they are, they will drive it underground, even more out of their control and any hope to convert it into some type of system that would have been profitable to the artist and industry will be lost. As the usual morality play goes, their own greed will be their downfall. As the luddites learned, you can destroy the machines in a factory but you can't stop the progress of time. But I have been saying all along that FILE SHARING IS ILLEGAL Before you start flaming me, please read the entire message. Copyright laws exist for a reason, to prevent someone from stealing your product. When you participate in file sharing, you are STEALING. It does not matter that the music industries prices are highway robery, taking somthing that you have no legal right to is stealing. No different that walking into your local store and stealing the cd off the shelf. As a computer technician, I see my fair share of stolen software mostly win_slows. Anyway I tell these people about Linux. That they can use the FREE SOFTWARE and not break the law. Some opt for it, some dont. However I WILL NOT install or service their pirated software. Keep in mind that copyright laws exist to encourage the production and distribution of goods that are so protected. They were not created as a tool that corporations could use to control and prosecute people who refused to knuckle under to their illegal cartel. In the US, at least, there is a concept of unclean hands. Meaning, if you try to sue someone in court for violating laws or interfering with you, you can not prevail if it is found that you were also violating laws or interfering with others. I do not think that anyone can possibly argue that the RIAA has clean hands. Period. The recording industry was operating an illegal cartel and fixing prices of CD's for decades. They have also acted to illegally close distribution channels, stop artists from making their own deals for digital distribution and they have been instrumental in lobbying for changes to the law that were intended solely to benefit them and deprive artists and creators of music of their rights. If the complaints about file-sharing were coming from a cleaner source, I might be more inclined to show some concern, as it is, I am not. Much like Microsoft complaining about unfair competition, in essence, it is laughable. As for artists, those that create value for their fans, those that trust their fans to support them and provide some real avenue to meet the needs of their fans will profit by them, those that do not trust their fans, don't provide value, and want to dictate to them what they will get and in what form, will lose. File sharing may be one means for this, but there would be others if it disappeared tomorrow. That was the lesson that I took from Napster, pity that others didn't learn it as well. ...snipped Some listen, some don't. Anyway. If the record industry is unable to sell CD's, the price will come down. Simple Economics 101. (Yes I went to college Business Admin/Information Systems and a Minor in Spanish) Supply and Demand. If they have tons of CD's that they cant sell, because people will not buy them THEY WILL LOWER THEIR PRICES. Simple Economics is not so simple when you have collusion and exclusive licensing and contracts. Throw in using the legal system to stifle rights, fair use and competition and economics can get very complex, quickly. You might want to look in to supply and demand as it relates to diamonds via deBeers cartel, or oil via OPEC or even software prices via Microsoft. Hell, just consider the current SCO case against Linux. Is that about encouraging production and sharing of ideas? Or trying to find a new way to squeeze a profit out of a very bad investment. Intellectual property laws are a man-made and government enforced creation, not a natural law. At the point that those laws cease to be a benefit to the public, they are used to stifle, rather than encourage creation, they are used to control, rather than encourage distribution, then they
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wednesday 10 September 2003 18:19, Lee Wiggers wrote: It does, however, feel very much like being mugged when you see your product with another company's label. Trust me It feels like rape. What you describe is flagrant violation of copyright though and can and should be prosecuted. Anywhere! Copying and sharing has been going on for centuries and doesn't have to infringe copyright (as in libraries for instance). Before the digital age it had it's barriers though, in the way that copies usually cost quality and too much sharing showed in ware and taire. Now that copying and sharing is being redefined (high time too) the entertainment industry is putting up the stakes and is quiet willing to sacrifice our freedom for their own protection. They're vultures and should be treated as such. If copyright was held up the way it should be, most of the winblows PC's (I'd estimate 70-90%) around me would grind to a halt. The MS users I usually have arguments with are always the ones who shamelessly use all kinds of cracks to get software running they haven't paid for. That's the only way they can have running system that can compare with what we've got here, at a simular price. Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wednesday 10 September 2003 11:06 am, HaywireMac wrote: On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:33:08 +0300 Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: No, that's where they've come from. Oh, right. Well, there's gotta be some way they can be made to suffer. No need, their suffering is inevitable. Current reports are that measures related to filesharing suggest that less people are sharing files. And recent reports indicate that CD sales have fallen by another 15% since they started their public crackdown on file-sharing. So reduced filesharing equals reduced CD sales, yeah, they are on the right track allright. I personally think that many of the people leaving services like Gnutella are going to more secure, underground services like Filetopia or are beginning to use security counter-measures like going through foreign proxies. Just my thought, I don't like enough music to care one way or another. That or the decline has more to do with lack of quality in the product than file-sharing in the first place. -- Bryan Phinney Software Test Engineer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:45:28 -0400 Bryan Phinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Keep in mind that copyright laws exist to encourage the production and distribution of goods that are so protected. They were not created as a tool that corporations could use to control and prosecute people who refused to knuckle under to their illegal cartel. In the US, at least, there is a concept of unclean hands. Meaning, if you try to sue someone in court for violating laws or interfering with you, you can not prevail if it is found that you were also violating laws or interfering with others. I do not think that anyone can possibly argue that the RIAA has clean hands. Period. Couldn't have said it better meself. No, really, I couldn't ;-) -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Nothing is as simple as it seems at first Or as hopeless as it seems in the middle Or as finished as it seems in the end. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
I think you were trying to say without due payment it is theft. But we understand. Like I said before, people can try and rationalize it all they want. Stealing is stealing. People got caught. And it is not like they have not been warning everyone for YEARS to stop. - Original Message - From: Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] This is just sickening On Wednesday 10 Sep 2003 4:33 pm, HaywireMac wrote: On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:10:07 -0400 Networks East [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Copyright laws exist for a reason, to prevent someone from stealing your product. Yes, copyright laws. But using techniques that invade a person's privacy, and using judgement that would shock a demon, is another matter. Oh, and BTW, it's not theft, that's a criminal offense. It's a violation of copyright laws is all, and that means that it is up to the copyright holder to pursue the matter through proper civil channels (due process of law), not use legal fictions dreamed up by bought-and-paid-for legislators to hammer people with what would normally qualify as criminal offenses themselves. Don't want to start a war, but obtaining something with due payment is theft. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:32:16 -0400 Networks East [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Do me a favor. Read my entire post and stop taking one liners It is against the law in the US to copy, pirate or what ever word you choose to use someones copyrited material. I HATE THE MUSIC INDUSTRY FOR WHAT THEY ARE DOING But the law is the law. If you are gonna post your one liners from my post, how about posting the part about contacting your Congressman or government officials and complaining. LETS CHANGE THE LAW. That was the point of my post. You probably did not read the whole thing. Read it again. What was that about flaming? LOL! I read your post in it's entirety. File sharing is not illegal. Sharing of copyrighted material is not illegal. It is a violation of someones copyright protection. That is the nature of copyright law, or at least it was until the majority of the US congress was bought off by the recording industry, making voting a moot point, more or less. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ If something has not yet gone wrong then it would ultimately have been beneficial for it to go wrong. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:42:56 +0100 Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Don't want to start a war, but obtaining something with due payment is theft. I'm assuming you meant without. ;-) Not under *copyright law*. As I said, photocopying a book in the library is *not* theft, it is a copyright violation, the same way copying or downloading a song without buying the CD is not theft. Theft is a criminal offense, punishable by criminal sanctions in a criminal court. Copying someone else's material, be it a book, CD, painting, what have you, is not a criminal offense, it is an actionable civil matter, for a civil court, between a plaintiff and a defendant, not between the State, the Crown, the People, however it is defined in your jurisdiction. Doubt me? Ask a lawyer. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ I have seen the future and it is just like the present, only longer. -- Kehlog Albran, The Profit Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
Let me start again by saying, I THINK THE RECORD INDUSTRY IS WRONG IN WHAT THEY ARE DOING. If you notice, they are in civil court. Why, because it is easier to get what you want in a US Civil court. You don't need all the jurors to agree, just most of them. Lower standard for winning, easier to settle. Heywire Mac, What are your legal qualifications??? You stated there is a HUGE difference between theft and copyright violation, that is the way it has been laid down in law for decades, if not centuries I would like to see your case law on that one. Please post LEGAL REFERENCES to back up your claims. Do you know what case law is? Simply, that is when an issue has already been proven in court. I have spend a few days in court in my prior career, Guess what it was. - Original Message - From: HaywireMac [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] This is just sickening On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:19:47 -0400 Lee Wiggers [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: It does, however, feel very much like being mugged when you see your product with another company's label. Yes, it does, and it is the price of doing business that one must be vigilant protecting one's IP, through civil and legal means that do not violate the constitution. Of course, NE is correct in that the democratic process is the way to get the kinds of practices engaged in by the RIAA and it's cohorts done away with. However, the RIAA has overstepped the boundaries of privacy, good taste, and dare I say, humanity, in this particular case, if not others. Keep in mind, also, that there is a big difference between unfair use of another's IP (ie. downloading a song you did not pay for), and commercial exploitation of another's IP. This little girl just wanted to listen to a coupla songs fer cryin' out loud! It's not like she was running a pirate CD store or something. I cannot emphasize the point enough, there is a HUGE difference between theft and copyright violation, that is the way it has been laid down in law for decades, if not centuries. The old downloading a song is just like stealing the CD from the record store line is bunk, and the product of spin doctors and lawyers who work for people who sold their soul a long time ago. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Murphy was an optimist. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wednesday 10 September 2003 01:02 pm, HaywireMac wrote: What was that about flaming? LOL! I read your post in it's entirety. File sharing is not illegal. Sharing of copyrighted material is not illegal. It is a violation of someones copyright protection. That is the nature of copyright law, or at least it was until the majority of the US congress was bought off by the recording industry, making voting a moot point, more or less. Don't forget the television industry, movie industry and software industry. Probably some of the sports and other entertainment industries as well. Recording was not the only source buying politicians on that one. -- Bryan Phinney Software Test Engineer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:08:25 -0400 HaywireMac [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Theft is a criminal offense, punishable by criminal sanctions in a criminal court. Copying someone else's material, be it a book, CD, painting, what have you, is not a criminal offense, it is an actionable civil matter, for a civil court, between a plaintiff and a defendant, not between the State, the Crown, the People, however it is defined in your jurisdiction. Doubt me? Ask a lawyer. I should clarify one point tho; does this distinction have anything to do with whether it is *morally* right? Of course not. I only meant to rebutt what NE said about it being illegal, which of course it is not. This takes us to Brian's point about the RIAA not having a leg to stand on in any case, because they've been involved in racketeering that would make the Mafia green with envy. Do two wrongs make a right? H. I'll get back to you on that one. :-D -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ You can always pick up your needle and move to another groove. -- Tim Leary Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:04:41 -0400 Networks East [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: big snip no legal qualifications, but if you don't know the diff between criminal (theft) and civil (copyright infringement), I can't help you. Funny, you asked for no flaming, how ironic... ;-) Signing off now. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Instead of loving your enemies, treat your friends a little better. -- Edgar W. Howe Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:32:16 -0400 Networks East [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: someones copyrited material. BTW, for someone who has spent time in a courtroom, you ought to know how to spell copyright, no? -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
Not that I'm saying wht's happened is right but does anyone think this story is a bit emotive? I mean it's all abou this poor little 12 year old and is totally ignoring the face that her mother probably got more songs from it than her daughter did. Me is quite glad me is in the UK Had it been here the mother would have done comunity service or been fined £100 or sometbing. Assuming of course it even got to court. Mike HaywireMac wrote: Quote: Twelve-year-old Brianna Lahara's love for TV theme songs, Christina Aguilera and the nursery song If You're Happy and You Know It made her a target of the multibillion-dollar U.S. recording industry. Yesterday, the seventh grader became the industry's first legal trophy in a massive crackdown when she promised never to share songs over the Internet again and her mother agreed to pay $2,000 (U.S.). Source: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030909.ucdcd0910/BNStory/Business/ these fuckers are going to rot in hell. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[2]: [newbie] This is just sickening
Hello Networks, Wednesday, September 10, 2003, 6:04:41 PM, you wrote: NE Let me start again by saying, I THINK THE RECORD INDUSTRY IS WRONG IN WHAT NE THEY ARE DOING. NE If you notice, they are in civil court. Why, because it is easier to get NE what you want in a US Civil court. NE You don't need all the jurors to agree, just most of them. Lower standard NE for winning, easier to settle. An interesting article about the powers used by RIAA: RIAA CAUSING 'MASSIVE' PRIVACY DAMAGE Subpoenas give powers that even law enforcement officers don't have http://nl2.vnunet.com/News/1143503 -- Regards, Davidmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wednesday 10 September 2003 12:54 pm, Bryan Phinney wrote: On Wednesday 10 September 2003 11:06 am, HaywireMac wrote: On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:33:08 +0300 Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: No, that's where they've come from. Oh, right. Well, there's gotta be some way they can be made to suffer. No need, their suffering is inevitable. Current reports are that measures related to filesharing suggest that less people are sharing files. And recent reports indicate that CD sales have fallen by another 15% since they started their public crackdown on file-sharing. So reduced filesharing equals reduced CD sales, yeah, they are on the right track allright. Sorry, got my numbers wrong. In the seven weeks since the RIAA announced that they intended to sue file traders, CD sales have declined by 54%. Larger than the amount of the decline in file traders. I guess that answers the question of whether a former file trader is going to go out and buy CD's once they stop trading files. May also suggest that file sharing actually does encourage music purchases. Definitely suggests that the RIAA has spent a lot of money in order to get lower profits. The one potentially silver lining is that public outrage may finally spur Congress to roll back some of the most egregious changes in the law that they put in place at the behest of the recording and entertainment industries. -- Bryan Phinney Software Test Engineer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:00:03 -0400 Bryan Phinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: egregious That's my second favourite word in the English language. Right behind bludgeon. ;-) -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ By protracting life, we do not deduct one jot from the duration of death. -- Titus Lucretius Carus Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:00:03 -0400 Bryan Phinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: The one potentially silver lining is that public outrage may finally spur Congress to roll back some of the most egregious changes in the law that they put in place at the behest of the recording and entertainment industries. Some interesting commentary on this issue here: http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/09/10/0314244 Echoes a lot of what you've been saying, but there are some other good points. Like this one: It is hard for most people to fathom this, but a top musician/band only makes between .10 and .15 cents for every disc that is sold!!! The rest of the loot goes to the publishing company, record company and other places. These people aren't defending artists, they're defending their own obsolescence (sp?). We don't *need* distributors anymore, we don't *need* high-priced marketing anymore, and they damn well know it. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ He who knows others is wise. He who knows himself is enlightened. -- Lao Tsu Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[2]: [newbie] This is just sickening
Hello Bryan, Wednesday, September 10, 2003, 1:00:03 PM, you wrote: BP In the seven weeks since the RIAA announced that they intended to BP sue file traders, CD sales have declined by 54%. I'm really glad to hear that. Serves 'em right - they deserve it. BP May also suggest that file sharing actually does encourage music BP purchases. Actually, it does. I was greatly offended by their morally outrageous actions. I decided to stop buying ANY music from an RIAA member. I cruised around the net and found that some independent groups are offering their music free as an introduction. I sampled several of these and liked some. I also sampled some songs not directly from web sites, and liked some of these too. End result was I discovered there are quite a few very nice groups out there. I'm happy to support them directly. It might be good for them too. If they were with the robber-labels they would get only a TINY amount of the sales price. Artists are being ripped off in addition to the public. Everyone loses except the media cartel. Another thing I found is that some groups are offering free music, but charge for concerts. They have adopted a different business model. This is really the key. The robber-labels are terrified of this because they will lose control. They are desperately clinging to an obsolete business model, and willing to use the most Draconian tactics to keep ripping off others. BP The one potentially silver lining is that public outrage may finally spur BP Congress to roll back some of the most egregious changes in the law that they BP put in place at the behest of the recording and entertainment industries. Very, very unlikely unless it is a HUGE protest. The media cartel has enormous resources, and have a long record of buying politicians quite frequently and quite lavishly. The hidden factor is that votes are increasingly being influenced by media - they can hold this club over the politicos as well. Cooperate or you won't get good coverage. A very powerful message if you're in office. Boycott ANY music from an RIAA member. -- rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wednesday 10 September 2003 05:56 pm, rikona wrote: Hello Bryan, ...snip Very, very unlikely unless it is a HUGE protest. The media cartel has enormous resources, and have a long record of buying politicians quite frequently and quite lavishly. The hidden factor is that votes are increasingly being influenced by media - they can hold this club over the politicos as well. Cooperate or you won't get good coverage. A very powerful message if you're in office. Fortunately, they appear to be their own worst enemy. As the backlash continues the money will begin to dry up. As the money dries up, so does the support of the bought politicians. Coupled with public relations that appear to have been designed by Darth Vader, and I figure that some politician is going to do the calculation, figure out how much they stand to benefit from throwing on a champion of the people costume, and will take action to start reversing at least the draconian pieces of the law that allow them to sue a 12 year old for potentially millions of dollars and threaten her with prison for violating copyrights. Given the current state of the world, I can think of much better targets to put in prison than 12 year old file traders. I mean, a little real perspective would do wonders for these guys. -- Bryan Phinney Software Test Engineer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 12:19, Lee Wiggers wrote: On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:38:39 -0400 HaywireMac [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:10:07 -0400 Networks East [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: FILE SHARING IS ILLEGAL No, it's not. Sharing of copyrighted material is a violation of the copyright holders' rights, it is not theft, at least not in most civilised countries. Photocopying a book is not the same as removing the physical book from the store, it's a simple legal fact. Civil court vs. criminal court. Only in the US, and perhaps soon in EU, this could become equivalent, but copyright law was never intended to come under the same heading as theft. It does, however, feel very much like being mugged when you see your product with another company's label. Trust me Lee but do you not agree that the laws are setup these days so that the wealthiest copyright holder wins? if you see your product with the proctor and gamble label, what chance do you have under current US Law to protect that copyright, really? -- ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 12:42, RichardA wrote: On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:04:41 -0400, Networks East [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have spend a few days in court in my prior career, Guess what it was. Burglar? Richard Worse LAWYER Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 01:10, Networks East wrote: Let me first say that I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE MUSIC INDUSTRY. And I think it is terrible that they are picking on children. The recording industry inherently produces stars by forcing music upon the public through commercial channels (TV, radio, etc); 90% of artists for the past 35 years have not been talented enough to pee on their own, let alone create an album on their own. The RIAA and associated vampires are more fighting the wrenching of control from them - they want to dictate musical tastes, musical hits - and also glean ungodly sums from the public and from the artists. If you haven't noticed, the artists that back the RIAA are the ones that are the fast pop stars and the ones with literally no talent or no talent left. REAL musicians know they're going to sell albums because what they do is art, what they do is good, and they put actual effort into their workmanship. They don't have to worry. And they're starting to sell more stuff because of file sharing. File sharing allows for the public to listen to music that they'd not otherwise be exposed to. For all that is wrong in making copies of music, why didn't anyone do anything when we used to record music from the radio onto our cassette tapes back in the 70's? It's the same thing, same principle. Sorry to lay that out, but having BEEN IN THE RECORDING INDUSTRY AND WORKING WITH RECORDING LABLES AND ARTISTS - I know the game very well. I would like to see the day that artists produce everything on their own - without some recording label barking over their shoulder telling them that they have to create this many songs with this type of beat and this type of nature - leave the artists to be creative - once that's left to be, we'll all be amazed at how little popularity the pop stars actually have - moreso because their true lack of talent will be recognised for exactly that - lack of talent - and the recording labels will die a nice death as they're dinosaurs now - rather like IBM being the major computing power until personal computers came into being... When the price of a CD comes down to $10 AUD (or $10 internationally) I'll buy CD's left and right. Until that time, I'll steal music... stephen kuhn - owner == illawarra computer services a kuhn media australia company http://kma.0catch.com -- * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * We expressly refuse to utilise Microsoft DRM encoded documents -- kern, v.: 1. To pack type together as tightly as the kernels on an ear of corn. 2. In parts of Brooklyn and Queens, N.Y., a small, metal object used as part of the monetary system. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re[2]: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 14:56, rikona wrote: Hello Bryan, Wednesday, September 10, 2003, 1:00:03 PM, you wrote: BP In the seven weeks since the RIAA announced that they intended to BP sue file traders, CD sales have declined by 54%. I'm really glad to hear that. Serves 'em right - they deserve it. BP May also suggest that file sharing actually does encourage music BP purchases. Actually, it does. I was greatly offended by their morally outrageous actions. I decided to stop buying ANY music from an RIAA member. I cruised around the net and found that some independent groups are offering their music free as an introduction. I sampled several of these and liked some. I also sampled some songs not directly from web sites, and liked some of these too. End result was I discovered there are quite a few very nice groups out there. I'm happy to support them directly. It might be good for them too. If they were with the robber-labels they would get only a TINY amount of the sales price. Artists are being ripped off in addition to the public. Everyone loses except the media cartel. Another thing I found is that some groups are offering free music, but charge for concerts. They have adopted a different business model. This is really the key. The robber-labels are terrified of this because they will lose control. They are desperately clinging to an obsolete business model, and willing to use the most Draconian tactics to keep ripping off others. BP The one potentially silver lining is that public outrage may finally spur BP Congress to roll back some of the most egregious changes in the law that they BP put in place at the behest of the recording and entertainment industries. Very, very unlikely unless it is a HUGE protest. The media cartel has enormous resources, and have a long record of buying politicians quite frequently and quite lavishly. The hidden factor is that votes are increasingly being influenced by media - they can hold this club over the politicos as well. Cooperate or you won't get good coverage. A very powerful message if you're in office. Boycott ANY music from an RIAA member. That leaves just (sob) Aussie Truckkie music. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On 10 Sep 2003 15:31:59 -0700 Aron Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Worse LAWYER *Low blow!* -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ A dream will always triumph over reality, once it is given the chance. -- Stanislaw Lem Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:49:49 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: For all that is wrong in making copies of music, why didn't anyone do anything when we used to record music from the radio onto our cassette tapes back in the 70's? It's the same thing, same principle. Bingo. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Everything ends badly. Otherwise it wouldn't end. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
Enough about the Music Nazis So how about Mandrake what a great OPEN SOURCE operating system that we all love. No Copyright Problems here. Todd - Original Message - From: HaywireMac [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] This is just sickening On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:42:56 +0100 Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Don't want to start a war, but obtaining something with due payment is theft. I'm assuming you meant without. ;-) Not under *copyright law*. As I said, photocopying a book in the library is *not* theft, it is a copyright violation, the same way copying or downloading a song without buying the CD is not theft. Theft is a criminal offense, punishable by criminal sanctions in a criminal court. Copying someone else's material, be it a book, CD, painting, what have you, is not a criminal offense, it is an actionable civil matter, for a civil court, between a plaintiff and a defendant, not between the State, the Crown, the People, however it is defined in your jurisdiction. Doubt me? Ask a lawyer. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ I have seen the future and it is just like the present, only longer. -- Kehlog Albran, The Profit Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
Given the current state of the world, I can think of much better targets to put in prison than 12 year old file traders. I mean, a little real perspective would do wonders for these guys. -- Bryan Phinney Software Test Engineer Yeah but if they were to put all the real criminals in prison we would have a world wide shortage of politicans, judges, cops, and Microshaft and quite a few other large cooperations would have to get along without much of their top management. Our whole world change overnight. Naah easier to keep prosecuting the 12 year olds Marc KM5KW Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 02:55, Networks East wrote: I think you were trying to say without due payment it is theft. But we understand. Like I said before, people can try and rationalize it all they want. Stealing is stealing. People got caught. And it is not like they have not been warning everyone for YEARS to stop. Look - if the Recording Industry doesn't want people to steal their music (or share it) then: 1.) Stop playing it on the radio - it can be copied from there to tape or captured to a computer 2.) Stop selling CD's - it can be ripped/copied irregardless of prevention technology 3.) Lower prices internationally. 4.) Back off into a corner and die quietly. stephen kuhn - owner == illawarra computer services a kuhn media australia company http://kma.0catch.com -- * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * We expressly refuse to utilise Microsoft DRM encoded documents -- BS: You remind me of a man. B: What man? BS: The man with the power. B: What power? BS: The power of voodoo. B: Voodoo? BS: You do. B: Do what? BS: Remind me of a man. B: What man? BS: The man with the power... -- Cary Grant, The Bachelor and the Bobby-Soxer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:32:46 -0400 Networks East [EMAIL PROTECTED] insightfully noted: I agree with that as well. Like I said before, the Music Industry should be ashamed of themselves. I would be ashamed for sueing a 12 year old girl that lives in public housing for 2grand. === But it takes a sense of decency to even feel shame in the first place. ..nuff said, Mike -- The man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life --Muhammad Ali Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 17:32, Networks East wrote: I agree with that as well. Like I said before, the Music Industry should be ashamed of themselves. I would be ashamed for sueing a 12 year old girl that lives in public housing for 2grand. There is NOTHING that a lawyer won't do. - Original Message - From: HaywireMac [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] This is just sickening On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:49:49 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: For all that is wrong in making copies of music, why didn't anyone do anything when we used to record music from the radio onto our cassette tapes back in the 70's? It's the same thing, same principle. Bingo. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Everything ends badly. Otherwise it wouldn't end. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This is just sickening
Look - if the Recording Industry doesn't want people to steal their music (or share it) then: As I would say - No humming - BMI might be listening. BMI is kinda similar to RIAA here in the states - only they sue Girl Scouts for singling allegedly copyrighted songs (public performance) and have even been known to sue doctors playing CDs in operating rooms... This is the mentaility of a sue-happy environment -- recently Court TV anchors would not sing Happy Birthday because they thought they might be sued (allegedly that's a copyrighted song -- you see song credits in movies for it, despite that it's based on a plagiarized tune, and all the people did was to change the words... and it took *two* people to come up with those words!!! Shouldn't creativity matter whether or not one should consider this stuff to be copyrightable? I mean, a bunch of n***gg*** playing with a turntable and going 'you go girl' isn't music, but you'll be sued if you try and swap their songs. Compared to most mainstream classical music, most popular music is about as creative as the aforementioned happy birthday to you. Fuck copyright protection.. 1.) Stop playing it on the radio - it can be copied from there to tape or captured to a computer The US Home Recording act expressly permits non-commercial recording of this type. It also permits timeshifting (despite the networks' insistence that anyone with more than one blank tape in their possession is breaking the law), taping CDs or vinyl for use in the car (record executives would allege that we're supposed to buy separate copies for the car). Thank g-d that they haven't discovered computer software- style licensing, otherwise we would be paying per-seat, multiple CDs, for each player you use the CD on. 3.) Lower prices internationally. If you lower the prices, then it would be an incentive to buy more CDs perhaps. Most CDs are *way* overpriced. I can burn a CD for about 15 cents. It's cheaper now to make CDs than it ever has been -- and con- sequently, there's never been a time in the history of recording when it has been so cheap and easy to make a copy of a record. I mean, in times past, you'd have to have a lathe and other capital equipment. Not too long ago, a large capital investment would be required to make CDs -- but no longer. That's what is scaring the shit out of the record executives, IMHO. You don't even have to wait and listen to the music on the radio, just tune to live365.com :). How about selling commercial time in the middle of the CDs? Most commercial CDs have much wasted space; you could insert commercials in tracks and then that would drive down the price and then the record execs wouldn't care - they could sell advertising based on the number of potential listeners, pirates included :). stephen kuhn - owner == illawarra computer services a kuhn media australia company PS. Usenet is next door to kazaa. RIAA will take years to figure that out David E. Fox Thanks for letting me [EMAIL PROTECTED]change magnetic patterns [EMAIL PROTECTED] on your hard disk. --- : http://kma.0catch.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
