Re: [newbie] religion in linux
"Aqua" is the name Apple have given to their GUI interface design (because it looks like liquid). M$ have made an inferior copy for WinXP and have called it "Luna". No surprises there. On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:29, Robert MacLean wrote: > whats Apples "Aqua"? Is it Mac OS X? > > > - Original Message - > From: "Sridhar Dhanapalan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Robert MacLean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 10:50 AM > Subject: Re: [newbie] religion in linux > > > On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:40, Robert MacLean wrote: > > > heres my personal stand on M$. > > > If you think of every one of M$ products with the exception of the > > > OS's, and imagine all the products ran on a decent OS's (eg Linux > : > :) > : > > > then think how good M$ really is. There downfall is that they have > > a 2 > > > > bit OS and they charge too much for there products. M$ comes out > > with > > > > some of the best ideas in GUI's and ways of doing things. > > > > The Windos interface pre-Win95 was a cross between that of the Mac > > and one > > > developed at the Xerox PARC Institute. WinXP's "Luna" interface is a > > poor > > > rip-off of Apple's "Aqua". People attribute far too much to > > Microsoft, often > > > since they haven't used the environments that originated these > > designs. > > > -- > > Sridhar Dhanapalan. > > "There are two major products that come from Berkeley: > > LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." > > -- Jeremy S. Anderson > > -- > -- > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > > Go to http://.mandrakestore.com -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. "There are two major products that come from Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." -- Jeremy S. Anderson Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:29:36 +0200 "Robert MacLean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was inspired to comment: > whats Apples "Aqua"? Is it Mac OS X? It's the user interface for OSX. Mike -- "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
Try typing "about:mozilla" in you mozilla address bar. - Paul Rodríguez _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
> From: Matt Greer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:45:18 -0500 > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [newbie] religion in linux > > This article is pre OS X. I've also never used OS X. I do know from reading > about OS X, Apple took a few steps backwards in interface design. In fact > earlier in OS X's development Apple was taking so many steps backwards that > it caused me to get a PC instead of another Mac. They since fixed a lot of > the things they were going to do poorly (but not all of them). > > Matt Matt, An unreleased OS caused you to switch platforms? Why? I'm not bashing here or anything, but this just strikes me as incredibly strange. I think that if you based all your decisions like that then I'm surprised your using computers at all :) Heh, I just had to erase a whole paragraph here, re-reading it I realised that my now 25 hours of no sleep began to make this message into almost an attack which it defiantly is not. I am using OSX on a few machines here at home and my one at work, I'm also using win 2k on a home built PC, and mandrake linux 8 on an ipaq. All of them have flaws, infact I have reinstalled linux s many times it's not funny (all after clean installs, for the longest time I could not get any networking happening at all, then tried lynx, and suddenly _everything_ was working...reeely strange...but I digress). The only reason I mention all of this is for people to say WOW what a guy... er no, actually it's just me trying to understand that comment :) I think it's just because I hate to see anyone leave the mac platform for whatever reason (my platform of choice over _any_ of the others), but I was not wanting to look like just a typical mac user who has had no experience outside of the comfy mac os. And just to say it, I LOVE OSX ... I'm running xfree86 on it in rootless mode right along side the Aqua stuff, it's great. It has also given me much less problems that linux has. :) OSX is also what got me into the command line, something which I had never touched before, which led to me playing with linux to see what all the fuss was about, and then to here, ahh, heartwarming isn't it :) Now if I could just stop bashing my head against linux trying to get Globecom.net/jukebox installed, This OS would rock. before anyone takes offence at this, remember : SLEEP DEPRIVED :) (tho I'm sure there are a few on this list that will take that 25hours with a "beginner!" :) rand Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
RE: Re: [newbie] religion in linux
Yup, I aggree... and this is also true of other scripting languages like PHP and PERL... but maybe I'm just being too much of a purist. I think you also have to understand that a lot of so called "crappy" programmers never had anyone show them how to write code so it's not their fault. My wife is learning ActionScripting for Flash at her new job. There is a "senior" programmer that she works under. I have been working with her at home on her programming skils, and the quality of her work now surpasses the her manager's work. But it's hard to fault either of them because they are simply ignorant of programming practices and plus they don't really care because they don't see themselves as programmers. I mean you just don't see a lot of discussions about design patterns and application modeling in the VB, PHP, PERL, etc.. newsgroups... It's too bad really... As linux becomes more and more popular and as time goes on some sort of basic programming skill will be required -- kind of like typing was when I was in high school. > -Original Message- > From: Jim Dawson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 12:52 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Re: [newbie] religion in linux > > > That must be a popular title. I've seen more crappy > prgorammers writing in VB than in any other language. ;-) > > Too many pepole seem to think that just because a language > such as VB makes it easy to program, real programming skills > are not actually required. > > -Original Message- > From: Jay DeKing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:56:52 -0400 > Subject: Re: [newbie] religion in linux > > and today I bought a book on (cringe) VBscript, aka "VB for crappy > programmers," so I can customize (i.e. make functional) some > new software my > department at work just bought. > > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re: [newbie] religion in linux
That must be a popular title. I've seen more crappy prgorammers writing in VB than in any other language. ;-) Too many pepole seem to think that just because a language such as VB makes it easy to program, real programming skills are not actually required. -Original Message- From: Jay DeKing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:56:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [newbie] religion in linux and today I bought a book on (cringe) VBscript, aka "VB for crappy programmers," so I can customize (i.e. make functional) some new software my department at work just bought. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
Robert MacLean wrote: > > heres my personal stand on M$. > If you think of every one of M$ products with the exception of the > OS's, and imagine all the products ran on a decent OS's (eg Linux :) > then think how good M$ really is. There downfall is that they have a 2 > bit OS and they charge too much for there products. M$ comes out with > some of the best ideas in GUI's and ways of doing things. This is my take on it. MS is an advertiser. The sell illusions. They mix in a few real products to trick you into thinking that they are actually selling you something, when in fact, they are trying to slowly chain you into a system in which you cannot buy anything, but have to rent it. Do you think I am being paranoid? If so, please state why? ShalomOut Chal Elder PCUSA Registered Linux user # 217118 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
on 8/27/01 7:58 AM, Mark Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > This isn't really on topic here, but does anyone know of any sites the > compare what UI aspects of Microsoft are poor in relation to Mac (and for > that matter KDE and GNOME). I always hear the Mac's UI is superior than MS, > but to tell you the truth, I've never heard that claim backed up. It's very > hard for me to get around Mac, and I realize that it's because I'm so use to > Windows but I figured that I'm a smart enough guy that I should be able to > figure it out. These guys are a bit Mac biased, but they do a good job pointing out the differences http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ A particularly good example is how to close a window in MacOS or Windows http://www.mackido.com/Interface/windows_close.html > (ps: I'm running OS X at home This article is pre OS X. I've also never used OS X. I do know from reading about OS X, Apple took a few steps backwards in interface design. In fact earlier in OS X's development Apple was taking so many steps backwards that it caused me to get a PC instead of another Mac. They since fixed a lot of the things they were going to do poorly (but not all of them). Matt _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] religion in linux
This isn't really on topic here, but does anyone know of any sites the compare what UI aspects of Microsoft are poor in relation to Mac (and for that matter KDE and GNOME). I always hear the Mac's UI is superior than MS, but to tell you the truth, I've never heard that claim backed up. It's very hard for me to get around Mac, and I realize that it's because I'm so use to Windows but I figured that I'm a smart enough guy that I should be able to figure it out. Some people say the Windows users try to hard and impose too much complexity on the Mac's UI and that's why they have so much trouble -- that they just need to relax more... I guess so, but I'd like to see a side by side comparison of where MS dropped the ball as far as UI design. (ps: I'm running OS X at home, you no longer have the ability to position a background, you can only tile it. Now, I might be just stupid and can't find the "center" preference, but if I'm right in believing that you no longer have a choice in positioning the background I'd have to say Mac goofed up on this one) > -Original Message- > From: Matt Greer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 11:51 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [newbie] religion in linux > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Robert MacLean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > heres my personal stand on M$. > > If you think of every one of M$ products with the exception of the > > OS's, and imagine all the products ran on a decent OS's (eg Linux :) > > then think how good M$ really is. There downfall is that > they have a 2 > > bit OS and they charge too much for there products. M$ > comes out with > > some of the best ideas in GUI's and ways of doing things. > > Microsoft's Mac programs are great. I believe because they > are constrained > within Apple's human interface guidelines. But MS and good > GUI really don't > mix. A close study of MacOS and Windows really shows how poor > the Windows > GUI is. Apple is referred to quite a bit in the world of > interface design, > and their book on the human interface is practically canon. > > Matt > > > _ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
- Original Message - From: "Robert MacLean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > heres my personal stand on M$. > If you think of every one of M$ products with the exception of the > OS's, and imagine all the products ran on a decent OS's (eg Linux :) > then think how good M$ really is. There downfall is that they have a 2 > bit OS and they charge too much for there products. M$ comes out with > some of the best ideas in GUI's and ways of doing things. Microsoft's Mac programs are great. I believe because they are constrained within Apple's human interface guidelines. But MS and good GUI really don't mix. A close study of MacOS and Windows really shows how poor the Windows GUI is. Apple is referred to quite a bit in the world of interface design, and their book on the human interface is practically canon. Matt _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:40, Robert MacLean wrote: > heres my personal stand on M$. > If you think of every one of M$ products with the exception of the > OS's, and imagine all the products ran on a decent OS's (eg Linux :) > then think how good M$ really is. There downfall is that they have a 2 > bit OS and they charge too much for there products. M$ comes out with > some of the best ideas in GUI's and ways of doing things. The Windos interface pre-Win95 was a cross between that of the Mac and one developed at the Xerox PARC Institute. WinXP's "Luna" interface is a poor rip-off of Apple's "Aqua". People attribute far too much to Microsoft, often since they haven't used the environments that originated these designs. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. "There are two major products that come from Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." -- Jeremy S. Anderson Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
heres my personal stand on M$. If you think of every one of M$ products with the exception of the OS's, and imagine all the products ran on a decent OS's (eg Linux :) then think how good M$ really is. There downfall is that they have a 2 bit OS and they charge too much for there products. M$ comes out with some of the best ideas in GUI's and ways of doing things. Robert MacLean - Original Message - From: "Michael Scottaline" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] religion in linux > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:14:43 +0100 > "Adams, Jamie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> insightfully noted: > > AJ> Okay, flame me too.. i liked IE for windows, but i dont miss it that > AJ> much, im getting used to the Opera way of doing things.. > AJ> Jamie Adams > == > What i find most "similar" to IE (at least a feature that I particularly > liked) about Opera 5.x is the ability to get rid of the *entire* interface > (at least the visible portion) and have "nothing but page" showing. I > have a 19" monitor, but still like to fill it withe the page..., no > vestige of browser visible, not even the title bar!! Right mouse click > gives one all the features you are likely to need for day to day browsing. > Others are available via simple keyboard commands. > About the only M$ windows app I truly _miss_ is PowerPoint. Yeah I've > tried SO and Applix presentation programs. They're OK, but they're NOT > PowerPoint. Read an interview very recently in which Linus even claimed > to like PowerPoint. He often used it for presentations about his favorite > OS ;-) > Mike > > -- > "Always remember, I have taken more out of alcohol than > alcohol has taken out of me." > --Winston Churchill > > _ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > -- -- > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://.mandrakestore.com > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
Hello, >16:9 And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by how you use worldly >wealth, so that when it runs out you will be welcomed into the eternal >homes. 16:10 "The one who is faithful in a very little is also faithful >in much, and the one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest >in much. 16:11 If then you haven't been trustworthy in handling worldly >wealth, who will entrust you with the true riches? 16:12 And if you >haven't been trustworthy with someone else's property, who will give you >your own Localization comment: For American readers, 16:9 ... 16:12 should be read 4:9 PM ... 4:12 PM. Pascal Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
On Friday 24 August 2001 16:14, Robert MacLean wrote: > isn't mac os x, based on unix? > and doesn't that mean with a but of modifying (a very small bit) the > stuff written for it should work on linux? OS X uses a proprietary display system. I imagine that rewriting apps that use it for X Window would be non-trivial. Possible, but not easy. > or atleast the mac os x gui should work, and thus apps for the gui > should work. It won't work without major recompiling, and for that you'd need Apple to release the source. And before that Adobe would have to release the source to the PDF-based display system ... -- Michel Clasquin, D Litt et Phil (Unisa) [EMAIL PROTECTED]/unisa.ac.za http://www.geocities.com/clasqm This message was posted from a Microsoft-free PC To understand recursion, one must first understand recursion. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:26, Charles Punch wrote: > chris swain wrote: > > If linux has many christian influences. What religion is microsoft? > > I think Linux is diverse in it's religious influences, not specifically > Christian. MS is probably in danger of worshipping the false God, Mamon > (Money). > > 16:9 And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by how you use worldly > wealth, so that when it runs out you will be welcomed into the eternal > homes. 16:10 "The one who is faithful in a very little is also faithful > in much, and the one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest > in much. 16:11 If then you haven't been trustworthy in handling worldly > wealth, who will entrust you with the true riches? 16:12 And if you > haven't been trustworthy with someone else's property, who will give you > your own > > Linus Torvalds certainly made himself a lot of friends by sharing his > code with the world, instead of being greedy. Yes I have heard that he > is an atheist, but that is irrelevant. Ghandi was not a Christian > either, but he exhibited many Christlike characteristics. Those > qualities are inherent in our inner man. The lust for money (power) is > inherent in our carnal nature. It's certainly not a Christian thing. It'd be more like a moral thing. The major religions of the world share a very common set of morality. After that, things begin to diverge... BTW, Gandhi was a Jain, essentially a very strict Hindu. Hinduism would have to be one of the most tolerant and inclusive religions out there. In India, they celebrate just about every major religious occasion, no matter what religion it comes from (any reason to party :-). > ShalomOut > Chal > Elder PCUSA > Registered Linux user # 217118 > > Some men rob you with a six-gun -- others with a fountain pen. > -- Woodie Guthrie -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. "There are two major products that come from Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." -- Jeremy S. Anderson Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux and RE: [newbie] Re: Modem Busy/Support
LURKER here, These two subjects are NOT what I would call appropoe for this Mail List. ONE, slamming others is NOT very NICE even though you may have thingys correct or NOT. TWO, the subject is NOT correct for what is placed in each message. I do thank you for responding but if the subject is changed then change what is in that field, SUBJECT:. These types of messages should be addressed directly to the individuals you are wanting to communicate this information NOT to the LIST. This is what gives this LIST a BLACK EYE in PROFESSIONALISM. Most of the info asked for is received with the intent of assisting. If you want to have this type of discussion then create your own Mail List for that and let those of us that want to learn our systems to the best of our abilities to this List. Thank YOU, TIA, 'd' Don Hodges [EMAIL PROTECTED] San Antonio, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 04:14:07PM +0200, Robert MacLean wrote: > isn't mac os x, based on unix? > and doesn't that mean with a but of modifying (a very small bit) the > stuff written for it should work on linux? > or atleast the mac os x gui should work, and thus apps for the gui > should work. > > or am i way off? Geez another top poster. Mac OS X is the Quartz technology on top of the Open Source Darwin, which is based on an older version of BSD. So apps written in the Coca language will only work on Quartz, not on the underlying Darwin. So no they won't work on Linux. -- Steve - Toronto ICQ 35454764 /~\ 'If you're not a rebel when you're 20 you've got no heart; if \ / you're not establishment when you're 30 you've got no brain. X Join the ASCII ribbon campaign against HTML email/ \ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
on 8/24/01 9:14 AM, Robert MacLean at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > isn't mac os x, based on unix? Yup, it's based on BSD. > and doesn't that mean with a but of modifying (a very small bit) the > stuff written for it should work on linux? Some unix apps out now that run on Linux also have an available MacOS X counterpart. I've also noticed some apps I've installed from source talk about compiling for OSX in the readmes. > or atleast the mac os x gui should work, and thus apps for the gui > should work. > > or am i way off? > Beats me. But I'd be willing to bet getting the source for the gui would be nigh impossible :) Apple does offer a free OS which is basically the unix core of Mac OS X. Although the name escapes me at the moment. Matt _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] religion in linux
Okay, flame me too.. i liked IE for windows, but i dont miss it that much, im getting used to the Opera way of doing things.. Jamie Adams Housing Assistant - Tel: (01723) 507543 Fax: (01723) 355862 >-- >From: Matt Greer[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: 24 August 2001 14:46 >To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [newbie] religion in linux > ><> >on 8/24/01 8:14 AM, Robert MacLean at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> okay okay I appologise, maybe a bit excessive.but you don't have >> to work with internet explorer all day every day, after a while you >> start losing it. >> > >Heh heh. I have to admit I wish IE was available for Linux :) > >But don't flame me too hard. I'm coming from a Mac perspective where IE is >quite good, as is Outlook Express for the Mac. > >Matt > > >_ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > >_ >This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet >delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further >information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call >Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. > _ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
I agree that IE is very good (duck rotten fruit), what bugs me is I have to develop web apps, and IE does everything differently, very differently. it's annoying have to code 2 different versions because M$ is too lazy to follow the standards that are setup. Robert MacLean - Original Message - From: "Matt Greer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] religion in linux > on 8/24/01 8:14 AM, Robert MacLean at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > okay okay I appologise, maybe a bit excessive.but you don't have > > to work with internet explorer all day every day, after a while you > > start losing it. > > > > Heh heh. I have to admit I wish IE was available for Linux :) > > But don't flame me too hard. I'm coming from a Mac perspective where IE is > quite good, as is Outlook Express for the Mac. > > Matt > > > _ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > -- -- > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://.mandrakestore.com > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
on 8/24/01 8:14 AM, Robert MacLean at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > okay okay I appologise, maybe a bit excessive.but you don't have > to work with internet explorer all day every day, after a while you > start losing it. > Heh heh. I have to admit I wish IE was available for Linux :) But don't flame me too hard. I'm coming from a Mac perspective where IE is quite good, as is Outlook Express for the Mac. Matt _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
chris swain wrote: > > If linux has many christian influences. What religion is microsoft? I think Linux is diverse in it's religious influences, not specifically Christian. MS is probably in danger of worshipping the false God, Mamon (Money). 16:9 And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by how you use worldly wealth, so that when it runs out you will be welcomed into the eternal homes. 16:10 "The one who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and the one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much. 16:11 If then you haven't been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will entrust you with the true riches? 16:12 And if you haven't been trustworthy with someone else's property, who will give you your own Linus Torvalds certainly made himself a lot of friends by sharing his code with the world, instead of being greedy. Yes I have heard that he is an atheist, but that is irrelevant. Ghandi was not a Christian either, but he exhibited many Christlike characteristics. Those qualities are inherent in our inner man. The lust for money (power) is inherent in our carnal nature. ShalomOut Chal Elder PCUSA Registered Linux user # 217118 Some men rob you with a six-gun -- others with a fountain pen. -- Woodie Guthrie Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
okay okay I appologise, maybe a bit excessive.but you don't have to work with internet explorer all day every day, after a while you start losing it. Robert MacLean - Original Message - From: "Michael Scottaline" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] religion in linux > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:12:00 +0200 > "Robert MacLean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was inspired to comment: > > > MICROSOFT IS THE EVIL!! > > MICROSOFT IS THE DARK SIDE! > == > I absolutely agree! > === > > MICROSOFT IS YOUR MOTHER IN LAW! > > Get a grip on yourself, Robert!! These types of out of control, blinded > by passion and hate, diatribes will have people ignoring you as a ranting > ad raving looney! Please calm down and be rational. The use of such > abusive language is totally uncalled for on this list, even when referring > to M$. > Chill ;o) > Mike > > -- > "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it > helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, > but at the very least you need a beer." > - Frank Zappa > > > _ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > -- -- > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://.mandrakestore.com > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:12:00 +0200 "Robert MacLean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was inspired to comment: > MICROSOFT IS THE EVIL!! > MICROSOFT IS THE DARK SIDE! == I absolutely agree! === > MICROSOFT IS YOUR MOTHER IN LAW! Get a grip on yourself, Robert!! These types of out of control, blinded by passion and hate, diatribes will have people ignoring you as a ranting ad raving looney! Please calm down and be rational. The use of such abusive language is totally uncalled for on this list, even when referring to M$. Chill ;o) Mike -- "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in linux
MICROSOFT IS THE EVIL!! MICROSOFT IS THE DARK SIDE! MICROSOFT IS YOUR MOTHER IN LAW! Robert MacLean - Original Message - From: "chris swain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 1:59 PM Subject: [newbie] religion in linux > If linux has many christian influences. What religion is microsoft? > > Jehova's witnesses? > Satanists? > > -- -- > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://.mandrakestore.com > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] religion in linux
If linux has many christian influences. What religion is microsoft? Jehova's witnesses? Satanists? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in Linux?!
On August 14, 2001 10:31 pm, Paul wrote: > I assume the 'daemon' is because of the fact that it is a program/process > that is running in memory without a fixed terminal. Daemon = Disk And Environment MONitor -- Cheers, Robert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in Linux?!
The web site for this book (http://www.hackerethic.org/) has both the Preface (http://www.hackerethic.org/preface.html) and Chapter 1 (http://www.hackerethic.org/chapter01.html) available for free. Also of interest is the Writings section (http://www.hackerethic.org/writings/). One of these writings is intended to be somewhat of a sequel to Eric S. Raymond's famous work "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" (http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/). This piece is credited for persuading Netscape to open up its code, the first such instance of a major commercial company embracing open source. This, in turn, set the path for companies like IBM to accept open source development. On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 03:44, Charles Punch wrote: > It seems we agree on at least one point, that is, that the names of > various shells, progs, processes etc. are probably puns or double > meanings done in a light vein. However the concepts in the GPL have > roots in most religions or at least in spirituality. You know, don't be > ruled by greed etc. By the way Linus Torvalds wrote the preface for the > book I mentioned. In case you didn't catch it the first time , it's "The > Hacker Ethic and the Spirit of the Information Age" by Pekka Himanen. > The preface by Linus is "Prologue: what makes hackers Tick? a.k.a. > Linus's Law, by Linus Torvalds." One more thing and then I'll hold my > peace, (true) Christianity should not be confused with religion. I did > not for one minute mean anything like that. > > ShalomOut > Chal > Elder PCUSA > Registered Linux user # 217118 -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. "There are two major products that come from Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." -- Jeremy S. Anderson Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in Linux?!
> > > One more thing and then I'll hold my peace, (true) Christianity > > should not be confused with religion. I did not for one minute > >mean anything like that. > > > Yeah, we could quibble with words, but I think I understand what you are a > getting at. My whole point was "don't read too much into things"... > Maybe I didn't express it properly, but that's exactly what I was getting at. The book I mentioned does not base the spiritual aspect of open source on religion or cute little double meanings. It speaks of an attitude, not dogma. I would be hard for me to imagine hackers subscribing to any kind of doctrine, no matter how liberal. I was not implying that Linus Torvalds is a religious person, in fact in his preface, he ponders the reason why he was asked to write it. Yet he did, so evidently he was not afraid to be open minded and consider the possibility of there being another perspective. I guess what *I'm* trying to say, is that if you're gonna look for spirituality in something, you've got to look in the right place, i.e., if your religion, spirituality or whatever you call it (we all have it in one form or another), is based on shallow principles, then it's effect on you will be small. Wait, that almost made sense! Yeah that's it! Forget all that other stuff I said. ShalomOut Chal Elder PCUSA Registered Linux user # 217118 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in Linux?!
It seems we agree on at least one point, that is, that the names of various shells, progs, processes etc. are probably puns or double meanings done in a light vein. However the concepts in the GPL have roots in most religions or at least in spirituality. You know, don't be ruled by greed etc. By the way Linus Torvalds wrote the preface for the book I mentioned. In case you didn't catch it the first time , it's "The Hacker Ethic and the Spirit of the Information Age" by Pekka Himanen. The preface by Linus is "Prologue: what makes hackers Tick? a.k.a. Linus's Law, by Linus Torvalds." One more thing and then I'll hold my peace, (true) Christianity should not be confused with religion. I did not for one minute mean anything like that. ShalomOut Chal Elder PCUSA Registered Linux user # 217118 Mark Johnson wrote: > > > -Original Message- > > From: Charles Punch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:23 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [newbie] religion in Linux?! > > > > > > manuels would have aquired. It would seem to me, that if someone were > > looking into whether there is a possibility of religious roots in > > "daemons" and "ncurses," that they must have at least a basic working > > knowledge of Linux. > > > > FWIW, the original meaning of "daemon" means "strong spiritual/natural > force" and it was used in connection with both good and evil. If you look up > this word on dictionary.com you'll find the more current meaning (demon); I > will need to look around and find the original definition. I think I found > it originally discussed in Rollo May's "Love and Will", however, if someone > knows where the history of UNIX/Linux/computer science that discuss terms > can be found I'd really be interested. I would bet that to serious UNIX > folks the general connotation of the words "daemon" and "demon" mean two > different things for them even outside of the computing environment. > > Anyway as for "ncurses" or "curses" I couldn't tell you, however, if you > are looking for religious roots in linux I think you will find that they are > not serious religious bindings but rather a sarcastic play on religious > thems and idioms (especially BASH). Many programmers for example will use > 666 as a number when debugging programs or creating data for test cases. > Not because they are satanist (or Christians) but because they are playful > programmers. Then there's always SATAN (Security Administrator Tool for > Analyzing Networks), more playful programmers! > > I think it's safe to say that most computer folks are probably > anti-establishment (& anti-church), but probably not not anti-spiritual. A > lot of the hackers in the 60's and 70's where hippies. Most are probably not > very extroverted and consequently suspicious of anything organized, or like > to play games with languages (both human and computer). You can see this > language play in perl programmers... > > In my opinion, the religious themes in linux (or for that matter computer > science) is pretty trivial and purely for fun. There's also the whole "I am > God" mentality for sysadmins and programmers (compare Torvalds opening line > at a user's group meeting: "I am your God"). If you've ever looked through > enough source code you'll find a ton of allusions to The Lord of the Rings > (admittedly a book based on religious themes). > > Western Religion is part of our cultural and literary history here in > America and Europe whether you are a church-goer or not, so they are bound > to show up in some variation in our contemporary lives and consequently in > Linux. > > (ps: this thread could go south really fast, we should be careful not to > translate "religion" to mean "Catholicism" or "Protestantism" or etc... > "religio" means "to link back" and there is a reason why the word religion > is used to address these themes that are much larger than Catholicism, > Buddhism, etc... What I am getting at is becareful to think that there is a > Christian sentiment running through Linux, but rather what seems religious > is rather a play on ideas that represent the big primal themes and symbology > that humans have had to deal with since the beginning.) > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in Linux?!
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:04:48 -0500 Mark Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > (ps: this thread could go south really fast, we should be careful not to > translate "religion" to mean "Catholicism" or "Protestantism" or etc... > "religio" means "to link back" and there is a reason why the word religion > is used to address these themes that are much larger than Catholicism, > Buddhism, etc... What I am getting at is becareful to think that there is a > Christian sentiment running through Linux, but rather what seems religious > is rather a play on ideas that represent the big primal themes and symbology > that humans have had to deal with since the beginning.) Well done that man!! Ok hows about a bit of associated associations - (just to keep this thoroughly on topic ) MarkJohnson MarkPhysic Johnson Son of John Mark&John Evangalists of Old JohnFisherman Fish water Water floats Floats bird Bird floats Floats swims Swims fish Fish food Foodfisherman fishermanfisherbird Fisherbirdpenguin! Now I hear that call - must off and make my ritual supplications to the severely handicapped avian which makes it life bearable by attempting to reduce the invasion of the genus picsae in disdain of the great distractors the god Linus. Morning all - had my coffee!!! -- "The number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected" (The UNIX Programmer's Manual, 2nd Edition, June 1972.) Registered Linux User: 102826ICQ#: 89345394 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in Linux?!
On Wednesday 15 August 2001 10:04, Mark Johnson wrote: > > FWIW, the original meaning of "daemon" means "strong spiritual/natural > force" and it was used in AMEN Here endeth the lesson? -- MJK Systems-IT Consultants & Training Phone/Fax-020 8697 4912 Mobile-077 4066 3292 Linux User #-196384 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in Linux?!
On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 00:42, A V Flinsch wrote: > On Wednesday 15 August 2001 01:31, Paul wrote: > > For that we have Jesux, a linux for Christians: > > > >http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Node/4081/ > > That is onbe of the funniest pages that I have seen in a long time > >-- > Alex > > Steve Balmer, CEO of Microsoft, recently referred to LINUX as a cancer. > Unsurprisingly, that's incorrect; LINUX was released on August 25th, > 1991 and is therefore a Virgo. Steve also called GNU/Linux communist. If that were true, how could a Christian distribution exist, given that communism is aethiestic? Food for thought... That site was sooo funny! -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. "There are two major products that come from Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." -- Jeremy S. Anderson Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] religion in Linux?!
> -Original Message- > From: Charles Punch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:23 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [newbie] religion in Linux?! > > > manuels would have aquired. It would seem to me, that if someone were > looking into whether there is a possibility of religious roots in > "daemons" and "ncurses," that they must have at least a basic working > knowledge of Linux. > FWIW, the original meaning of "daemon" means "strong spiritual/natural force" and it was used in connection with both good and evil. If you look up this word on dictionary.com you'll find the more current meaning (demon); I will need to look around and find the original definition. I think I found it originally discussed in Rollo May's "Love and Will", however, if someone knows where the history of UNIX/Linux/computer science that discuss terms can be found I'd really be interested. I would bet that to serious UNIX folks the general connotation of the words "daemon" and "demon" mean two different things for them even outside of the computing environment. Anyway as for "ncurses" or "curses" I couldn't tell you, however, if you are looking for religious roots in linux I think you will find that they are not serious religious bindings but rather a sarcastic play on religious thems and idioms (especially BASH). Many programmers for example will use 666 as a number when debugging programs or creating data for test cases. Not because they are satanist (or Christians) but because they are playful programmers. Then there's always SATAN (Security Administrator Tool for Analyzing Networks), more playful programmers! I think it's safe to say that most computer folks are probably anti-establishment (& anti-church), but probably not not anti-spiritual. A lot of the hackers in the 60's and 70's where hippies. Most are probably not very extroverted and consequently suspicious of anything organized, or like to play games with languages (both human and computer). You can see this language play in perl programmers... In my opinion, the religious themes in linux (or for that matter computer science) is pretty trivial and purely for fun. There's also the whole "I am God" mentality for sysadmins and programmers (compare Torvalds opening line at a user's group meeting: "I am your God"). If you've ever looked through enough source code you'll find a ton of allusions to The Lord of the Rings (admittedly a book based on religious themes). Western Religion is part of our cultural and literary history here in America and Europe whether you are a church-goer or not, so they are bound to show up in some variation in our contemporary lives and consequently in Linux. (ps: this thread could go south really fast, we should be careful not to translate "religion" to mean "Catholicism" or "Protestantism" or etc... "religio" means "to link back" and there is a reason why the word religion is used to address these themes that are much larger than Catholicism, Buddhism, etc... What I am getting at is becareful to think that there is a Christian sentiment running through Linux, but rather what seems religious is rather a play on ideas that represent the big primal themes and symbology that humans have had to deal with since the beginning.) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in Linux?!
Thanx (err, I mean thanks). I stand corrected. However, I think you may have missed my point. With all due respect to Mr. Bourne and Mr. Webster, my point was not about the history of Linux, nor about the technical aspects of spelling in regard to that noble end. Even though this is a newbie list, I assumed it was understood that I was speaking of the second part of a double meaning or a pun on on Mr. Bourne's name. If there were no double meaning implied, bash could just as well have been named "sbSHell" (for second Bourne Shell) or "bSHell2." Even in the secular vernacular, the term "Born Again" is well known. Actually it is a misnomer. The proper term is "born of the Spirit" or born from above. Since we were discussing the possibility of spiritual roots in Linux, I thought we were already established in the technical, at least of the particulars being discussed, if not in the basic knowledge which anyone who has read past the table of contents in most manuels would have aquired. It would seem to me, that if someone were looking into whether there is a possibility of religious roots in "daemons" and "ncurses," that they must have at least a basic working knowledge of Linux. I am no expert myself, but I wouldn't try to get spiritual meaning out of something that I don't understand the basic essentials of. The main point I was trying to make is that, to understand spirituality (in any arena), one must get past lables, catch phrases and buzz words. Spirituality, in our time, has become a seperate entity from the rest of our lives. I think it is time we re-connected it. The book I mentioned is written from that point of view. It was a great comfort to know that someone else is thinking along those same lines. ShalomOut Chal Elder PCUSA Registered Linux user # 217118 Dyslectic not are I! Paul Wrote: > > > As long as were digging deep into the spiritual side, BASH stands for > > "born again shell." It seems to me that these kind of things are just a > > result of people naming things from the vernacular. > > Beg to differ... It is Bourne Again SHell. > The original Bourne shell had some strange things in it, and someone improved > that. > The original Bourne shell was written by a mr. Bourne, and it incorporates > the goodies of csh and ksh. > Paul > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in Linux?!
> As long as were digging deep into the spiritual side, BASH stands for > "born again shell." It seems to me that these kind of things are just a > result of people naming things from the vernacular. Beg to differ... It is Bourne Again SHell. The original Bourne shell had some strange things in it, and someone improved that. The original Bourne shell was written by a mr. Bourne, and it incorporates the goodies of csh and ksh. Paul Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in Linux?!
As long as were digging deep into the spiritual side, BASH stands for "born again shell." It seems to me that these kind of things are just a result of people naming things from the vernacular. If you want to seriously look into the spiritual side of Open Source, check out "The Hacker Ethic and the Spirit of the Information Age" by Pekka Himanen. I'm not sure where to find it. I picked it up on a trip to Baltimore recently and it was the only copy in the bookstore. I'm sure a search engine would find it for you though. ShalomOut Chal Elder PCUSA Registered Linux user # 217118 Andrei Raevsky wrote: > > Call me curious, or call my plain stupid. But I cannot but help notice > stuff such as the names "daemons" or "ncurses" or the FreeBSD logo with a > little devil on it. Could anyone explain why this is so? Is there some > historical reason for this, or is this just a coencidence, or just as in > rock bands - a way of looking more interesting? > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > Go to http://.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] religion in Linux?!
> Call me curious, or call my plain stupid. But I cannot but help notice > stuff such as the names "daemons" or "ncurses" or the FreeBSD logo with a > little devil on it. Could anyone explain why this is so? Is there some > historical reason for this, or is this just a coencidence, or just as in > rock bands - a way of looking more interesting? I assume the 'daemon' is because of the fact that it is a program/process that is running in memory without a fixed terminal. It's like a ghost. But a ghost process is another thing, it is a runaway application. I can't believe that this is a religious thing. For that we have Jesux, a linux for Christians: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Node/4081/ : Welcome to the Jesux home page The distribution that will not lead you into temptation http://www.lowendmac.com/linux/jesux.shtml : Jesux: Sanctified Linux? Paul Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] religion in Linux?!
Call me curious, or call my plain stupid. But I cannot but help notice stuff such as the names "daemons" or "ncurses" or the FreeBSD logo with a little devil on it. Could anyone explain why this is so? Is there some historical reason for this, or is this just a coencidence, or just as in rock bands - a way of looking more interesting? _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://.mandrakestore.com
