Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Tuesday 03 Dec 2002 9:45 am, Keith Powell wrote: On Monday 02 December 2002 6:39 pm, Anne Wilson wrote: SNIP Systems are generally pretty noisy, these days. Hello Anne When it's behaving, mine sounds like one of those noisy fan heaters. When it's not, the noise is more like a vacuum cleaner. A bit of information, which you may already know. There is a firm in the U.K. which specialises in things (special cases, fans, fins, etc) to reduce the noise from a system. They are:- www.quietpc.com I don't know anything about them, but they look interesting from a quick browse through their web site. I want to try to get my system quieter, so I will be looking at them again. End of commercial! Cheers Keith They get good write-ups, too. But upgrading for quietness does not come cheap. Still, it's one option Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Thursday 21 Nov 2002 3:59 pm, Derek Jennings wrote: Agreed. I have just bought one of those Via Eden motherboards from www.linitx.com in the UK £63 for Motherboard and processor with 5.1sound/video/TVout/lan, even better it is passively cooled - NO FANS Runs KDE3 just fine (although there is a trick to get 9.0 installed) I don't think you ever told us what the trick was? This sounds such a good bargain I would be interested to know how you fared. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Monday 02 Dec 2002 5:12 pm, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 21 Nov 2002 3:59 pm, Derek Jennings wrote: Agreed. I have just bought one of those Via Eden motherboards from www.linitx.com in the UK £63 for Motherboard and processor with 5.1sound/video/TVout/lan, even better it is passively cooled - NO FANS Runs KDE3 just fine (although there is a trick to get 9.0 installed) I don't think you ever told us what the trick was? This sounds such a good bargain I would be interested to know how you fared. Anne There is an errata here telling you how to install on a Via C3/Eden CPU http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/errata.php3#viac3 Unfortunately the errata does not actually say how to install using an alternate boot kernel. What you have to do is insert CD1 and boot the PC. At the first screen hit F1 for more options, and at the 'boot:' prompt type alt2 enter The system will then use the alternative Linux2.2 boot kernel. At the appropriate time you then follow the instructions in the errata. It took me a couple of attempts to get it right, because you have to hastily go to another console and delete a directory just after the installer starts writing packages to disc. Once Mandrake is installed, it works just great. I did try recompiling the kernel with C3 optimisations, but it made no difference compared to the standard kernel. My 533Mhz Eden gives me a CPU rating of 1064 bogomips . This compares to 1697 bogomips for my 850MHz Athlon desktop. (If you want to compare that to your CPU open KDE ControlCentreInformationProcessor) For a desktop machine it would be a bit on the slow side, but as a firewall/server it is just great. There is also an 800Mhz version available for £67, but this has a small (and quiet) CPU fan. I wanted a computer that was totally silent. Pity I spoiled it by using an old rubbishy hard drive which clicks and whirrs all the time :) When I am feeling wealthy I will replace the hard drive with a super quiet Seagate Barracuda. derek Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Monday 02 Dec 2002 5:55 pm, Derek Jennings wrote: On Monday 02 Dec 2002 5:12 pm, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 21 Nov 2002 3:59 pm, Derek Jennings wrote: Agreed. I have just bought one of those Via Eden motherboards from www.linitx.com in the UK £63 for Motherboard and processor with 5.1sound/video/TVout/lan, even better it is passively cooled - NO FANS Runs KDE3 just fine (although there is a trick to get 9.0 installed) I don't think you ever told us what the trick was? This sounds such a good bargain I would be interested to know how you fared. Anne There is an errata here telling you how to install on a Via C3/Eden CPU http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/errata.php3#viac3 Unfortunately the errata does not actually say how to install using an alternate boot kernel. What you have to do is insert CD1 and boot the PC. At the first screen hit F1 for more options, and at the 'boot:' prompt type alt2 enter The system will then use the alternative Linux2.2 boot kernel. At the appropriate time you then follow the instructions in the errata. It took me a couple of attempts to get it right, because you have to hastily go to another console and delete a directory just after the installer starts writing packages to disc. Once Mandrake is installed, it works just great. I did try recompiling the kernel with C3 optimisations, but it made no difference compared to the standard kernel. My 533Mhz Eden gives me a CPU rating of 1064 bogomips . This compares to 1697 bogomips for my 850MHz Athlon desktop. (If you want to compare that to your CPU open KDE ControlCentreInformationProcessor) For a desktop machine it would be a bit on the slow side, but as a firewall/server it is just great. There is also an 800Mhz version available for £67, but this has a small (and quiet) CPU fan. I wanted a computer that was totally silent. Pity I spoiled it by using an old rubbishy hard drive which clicks and whirrs all the time :) When I am feeling wealthy I will replace the hard drive with a super quiet Seagate Barracuda. derek Thanks for that Derek. The install does sound tricky, but it's worth bearing in mind. Systems are generally pretty noisy, these days. Mine isn't too bad, but that's at least in part due to the fact that I don't have a modern high-powered graphics card, so only psu-fan and cpu-fan. I think it would have to be the higher powered version for a desktop machine, as you say - but it wasn't clear to me until I got your post just what speed we were talking about. Still at £69+vat for mobo+processor, it can't be bad. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Monday December 2 2002 11:12 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 21 Nov 2002 3:59 pm, Derek Jennings wrote: Agreed. I have just bought one of those Via Eden motherboards from www.linitx.com in the UK £63 for Motherboard and processor with 5.1sound/video/TVout/lan, even better it is passively cooled - NO FANS Runs KDE3 just fine (although there is a trick to get 9.0 installed) I don't think you ever told us what the trick was? This sounds such a good bargain I would be interested to know how you fared. Anne The trick is VIA. The VIA-Cyrix3 processors try'n pretend they're i686 cpu's. They're not. They're not even i586 compliant, reverting to some i486 characteristics. Their 800+ cpu's perform at 400mhz levels, and it's not all due to their small L caches. IMO, anyone researching the capabilities of these cpu's would avoid them. I have a similar opinion of any mini-ITX Hardware. 486's didn't need fans either, and ran like ...well 486's ; Which is why there's a trick to get 9.0 [i586] installed. http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/errata.php3#viac3 is a start, a Google on 'VIA C3' or 'mini-ITX Hardware', a search of the cooker ML archive, and reputable hardware sites, I believe will backup my opinions. The old adage applies 'you get what you pay for'. In this case I believe quality, currently capable hardware can be had for similar (if not cheaper in the long run) prices. Just needs a fan here'n there ;~ -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
Just a comment here,...I'm using the 800Mhz board in a slimline case as a print, DNS, and samba (for the printers)server and it's rock solid. Loaded that sucker up with RAM (PC133 ram is sooo cheap now), and I'm very happy with the results. It's handling 3 HP4050TN printers with JetDirect Cards without a single burp. Didn't use the secondary kernel though, just the standard 2.4.xxx one. Thanks for the info, but until it screws up badly, I'll leave it as is. -- Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Monday 02 Dec 2002 8:21 pm, Lanman wrote: Just a comment here,...I'm using the 800Mhz board in a slimline case as a print, DNS, and samba (for the printers)server and it's rock solid. Loaded that sucker up with RAM (PC133 ram is sooo cheap now), and I'm very happy with the results. It's handling 3 HP4050TN printers with JetDirect Cards without a single burp. Didn't use the secondary kernel though, just the standard 2.4.xxx one. Thanks for the info, but until it screws up badly, I'll leave it as is. The alternate kernel is only for the installation phase. Once installed the system runs the regular 2.4.19 kernel just like any other processor. It is just Mandrake9.0 which has the problem during install. 8.2 is fine (I think), and so is Suse or RedHat. I am delighted with mine. It has more than enough power for the job expected of it. derek Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Monday 02 December 2002 20:38, Derek Jennings wrote: It is just Mandrake9.0 which has the problem during install. 8.2 is fine (I think) 8.2 is fine on mine. I didn't get far with 9.0, thought it was the laptop cdrom drive not liking 700mb disks, but it's probably the install problem you mention. I ran cpuburn on it for a few hours today and it barely got warm (thanks whoever advised this. I'd know who it was, but in an unrelated incident I recently exploded an ext2 filesystem and lost some mail). I don't know why these epia things aren't more popular - there are so many tasks that don't need a P4 gazillion megahertz box. RichardA Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Monday 02 December 2002 19:57, Tom Brinkman wrote: On Monday December 2 2002 11:12 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 21 Nov 2002 3:59 pm, Derek Jennings wrote: Agreed. I have just bought one of those Via Eden motherboards from www.linitx.com in the UK £63 for Motherboard and processor with 5.1sound/video/TVout/lan, even better it is passively cooled - NO FANS Runs KDE3 just fine (although there is a trick to get 9.0 installed) I don't think you ever told us what the trick was? This sounds such a good bargain I would be interested to know how you fared. Anne The trick is VIA. The VIA-Cyrix3 processors try'n pretend they're i686 cpu's. They're not. They're not even i586 compliant, reverting to some i486 characteristics. Their 800+ cpu's perform at 400mhz levels, and it's not all due to their small L caches. IMO, anyone researching the capabilities of these cpu's would avoid them. I have a similar opinion of any mini-ITX Hardware. 486's didn't need fans either, and ran like ...well 486's ; Which is why there's a trick to get 9.0 [i586] installed. http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/errata.php3#viac3 is a start, a Google on 'VIA C3' or 'mini-ITX Hardware', a search of the cooker ML archive, and reputable hardware sites, I believe will backup my opinions. The old adage applies 'you get what you pay for'. In this case I believe quality, currently capable hardware can be had for similar (if not cheaper in the long run) prices. Just needs a fan here'n there ;~ -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas you get what you pay for is an interesting comment to make on a Linux mailing list! A PII 400MHz equivalent is hugely over specced for many tasks, especially without a gui, or on a low-usage home network. And the fact that it's silent, rather than just quiet, means a lot to me in terms of domestic harmony. RichardA Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Tue, 2002-12-03 at 10:51, RichardA wrote: you get what you pay for is an interesting comment to make on a Linux mailing list! A PII 400MHz equivalent is hugely over specced for many tasks, especially without a gui, or on a low-usage home network. And the fact that it's silent, rather than just quiet, means a lot to me in terms of domestic harmony. RichardA ...and to think that we used to install XENIX on 386-16's w/8mb of RAM to run 8 POS terminals and four printers for rental stores... -- Tue Dec 3 10:55:01 EST 2002 .o0 linux user:267497 0o. |____ | kühn media australia | / \ /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | .\__/ || | | | | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kühn | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | ;/ / | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389 | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU Coralament*Best Grötens*Liebe Grüße*Best Regards*Elkorajn Salutojn Philadelphia is not dull -- it just seems so because it is next to exciting Camden, New Jersey. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
Having used one of the C3 -800Mz boards in a slim-line case as a print server (see my previous post), I was mostly impressed with the concept of such a small board and a compact slim-line case. But, having tried out one of these Mini's, I think my next one will be a Flex or Micro-ATX system, for several reasons; 1) The price for a Flex motherboard is a little less than the Epia boards, and so is the case and cdrom drive. By using Flex factor hardware, you can save about $100.00 (Canadian), before you invest in a CPU, and have you seen the price of Durons lately? But this also means that you can buy Asus, MSI and other big name boards, and in most cases you can choose between AMD and Intel CPU's. This means that your end result could be a P4-2.4 Ghz.system in a pretty compact profile! 2) Whether Mini-ITX or Flex/Micro ATX form factor, these things make great Thin-Clients ! (Can you say LTSP?), or a secondary PC for the kids without cashing-in your RRSP's! That seems to go hand-in-hand with earlier posts about kids desktop managers. 3) Oh, yeah, I spend a lot of time doing hardware research for my company! Who needs a better reason? ! I Love it when a plan comes together! Now if they can only find a way to make floppy drives faster. Lanman On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 18:51, RichardA wrote: On Monday 02 December 2002 19:57, Tom Brinkman wrote: On Monday December 2 2002 11:12 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 21 Nov 2002 3:59 pm, Derek Jennings wrote: Agreed. I have just bought one of those Via Eden motherboards from www.linitx.com in the UK £63 for Motherboard and processor with 5.1sound/video/TVout/lan, even better it is passively cooled - NO FANS Runs KDE3 just fine (although there is a trick to get 9.0 installed) I don't think you ever told us what the trick was? This sounds such a good bargain I would be interested to know how you fared. Anne The trick is VIA. The VIA-Cyrix3 processors try'n pretend they're i686 cpu's. They're not. They're not even i586 compliant, reverting to some i486 characteristics. Their 800+ cpu's perform at 400mhz levels, and it's not all due to their small L caches. IMO, anyone researching the capabilities of these cpu's would avoid them. I have a similar opinion of any mini-ITX Hardware. 486's didn't need fans either, and ran like ...well 486's ; Which is why there's a trick to get 9.0 [i586] installed. http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/errata.php3#viac3 is a start, a Google on 'VIA C3' or 'mini-ITX Hardware', a search of the cooker ML archive, and reputable hardware sites, I believe will backup my opinions. The old adage applies 'you get what you pay for'. In this case I believe quality, currently capable hardware can be had for similar (if not cheaper in the long run) prices. Just needs a fan here'n there ;~ -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas you get what you pay for is an interesting comment to make on a Linux mailing list! A PII 400MHz equivalent is hugely over specced for many tasks, especially without a gui, or on a low-usage home network. And the fact that it's silent, rather than just quiet, means a lot to me in terms of domestic harmony. RichardA __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Min spec
On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 17:08, BCSoft@TowerTraining wrote: Not to pump this company twice in one sitting but you can go to http://www.idot.com/TheStore/Peripheral/motherboard/default_itx.asp?Cate.id= 5 and pick up a 500 mhz board with onboard ethernet and video for less than what you'll pay for the memory and video card. Plus you'll have a new bios that will be able to handle a larger harddrive. JMO R - Richard L. Babcock, Owner I have people who seem to know what they are talking about, telling me that for linux the bios isn't an issue as far as hard disk capacity is concerned. i.e. the bios can see the disk as whatever, but linux ignores that and works things out for itself. Haven't tested this personally as yet, but I have a 40GB disk due back from warranty replacement soon that might get a brief spin in an old don't give me anything bigger than 8GB system just to see what happens. I guess that if the bios refuses to even acknowledge that the drive is there, that might present a problem, but even that could probably be worked around using a boot floppy. Anyone care to comment? cheers Brian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
Agreed. I have just bought one of those Via Eden motherboards from www.linitx.com in the UK £63 for Motherboard and processor with 5.1sound/video/TVout/lan, even better it is passively cooled - NO FANS Runs KDE3 just fine (although there is a trick to get 9.0 installed) derek On Thursday 21 Nov 2002 6:08 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not to pump this company twice in one sitting but you can go to http://www.idot.com/TheStore/Peripheral/motherboard/default_itx.asp?Cate.id = 5 and pick up a 500 mhz board with onboard ethernet and video for less than what you'll pay for the memory and video card. Plus you'll have a new bios that will be able to handle a larger harddrive. JMO R - Richard L. Babcock, Owner Tower Training At Tower Training, We Bring the Classroom to You! www.towertraining.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Anne Wilson Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 6:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Min spec On Tuesday 19 Nov 2002 12:38 pm, Technoslick wrote: Tell us more about the specs for this older box, Anne. This the perfect place to find if anyone has had any problems with older components in Linux. T OK - this is what I have gleaned so far - M'board - Mainboard Pentium MMX - driver disk is name PC100 CPU AMD 6x86MX 233 BIOS date 7/15/95 Current RAM is 2x16 + 2x32 Mb (96 in all) in SIMMS. Manual says Mobo 'Supports 3 banks of FP/EDO SIMM/DIMM and SDRAM DIMM expandable memory up to 384 Mb'. It also says that it can mix SIMMS and DIMMS, using SIMM banks 3-4 and the two DIMM slots (they quote equally loaded, but I don't know whether it is necessary, or whether it reflects availability of DIMMS at that time). Current video - VidelExcel S3 Proposed changes - Diamond graphics card + Voodoo accelerator (I don't know whether this is the same Voodoo card that Ronald meant - it may be earlier) which appears to have chipsets labelled 3Dfx. Realtek NIC 128Mb DIMM - I presume no-one is going to recommend keeping the 64Mb SIMMS? Any comments/suggestions welcomed - even if it is 'forget it' :-) Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Min spec
On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 23:22, Brian Parish wrote: Anyone care to comment? cheers Brian In some cases, BIOS might report a particular drive (on older BIOS's) but linux will figure it out in reality. I've had several instances where the BIOS on the board recognized the HD as being under 32gb (or even less), but after loading linux, fdisk (or whatever you use) tended to figure out that the drive was a particular geometry and did it's own thing irregardless of what BIOS said - with very few problems afterwards. BUT, the kernel HAS to be rather new - I used 2.4+ on those systems, and they were Intel based systems as well. (As if that would matter, but ya never know) -- Fri Nov 22 10:45:01 EST 2002 .o0 linux user:267497 0o. |____ | kühn media australia | / \ /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | .\__/ || | | | | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kühn | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | ;/ / | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389 | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU Coralament*Best Grötens*Liebe Grüße*Best Regards*Elkorajn Salutojn Razors pain you; Rivers are damp. Acids stain you, And drugs cause cramp. Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give. Gas smells awful-- You might as well live! -- Dorothy Parker, Resume, 1926 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Tuesday 19 Nov 2002 12:38 pm, Technoslick wrote: Tell us more about the specs for this older box, Anne. This the perfect place to find if anyone has had any problems with older components in Linux. T OK - this is what I have gleaned so far - M'board - Mainboard Pentium MMX - driver disk is name PC100 CPU AMD 6x86MX 233 BIOS date 7/15/95 Current RAM is 2x16 + 2x32 Mb (96 in all) in SIMMS. Manual says Mobo 'Supports 3 banks of FP/EDO SIMM/DIMM and SDRAM DIMM expandable memory up to 384 Mb'. It also says that it can mix SIMMS and DIMMS, using SIMM banks 3-4 and the two DIMM slots (they quote equally loaded, but I don't know whether it is necessary, or whether it reflects availability of DIMMS at that time). Current video - VidelExcel S3 Proposed changes - Diamond graphics card + Voodoo accelerator (I don't know whether this is the same Voodoo card that Ronald meant - it may be earlier) which appears to have chipsets labelled 3Dfx. Realtek NIC 128Mb DIMM - I presume no-one is going to recommend keeping the 64Mb SIMMS? Any comments/suggestions welcomed - even if it is 'forget it' :-) Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
Good work on the specs, Anne! Here's my two cents: A 233 MHz processor, even with the memory, is going to be really slow in X-windows in MDK 9.0, and tolerable in MDK 8.2. Again, this is based on using KDE, not lighter, more streamlined versions of WMs. As I mentioned before, I have a similar box used for the kids and guests. There has been some talk on the listserv about special kernel considerations for AMD CPUs, but my guess on that was for current generation CPUs, not the older ones like yours. I am running MDK 9.0 on an AMD K6/2-500 MHz box with no concerns. Memory at 128 MBs is fine. 64 MBs will work for MDK 8.2, probably not for MDK 9.0. You didn't mention what the onboard cache memory is. For a board of that age group, my guess is that you have as much as 512k, but possibly 256k. If you have the former, going over 128 MBs in RAM will actually make the computer run slower as it is not able to cache over 128 MBs with that amount. If the latter, I would go and put the 128 MBs in and not worry about it, as the quantity of memory will be more important than any reduction in performance. Stick with DIMMs. Mixing the two is not simply a matter of placing the memory physically in the slots. There are several factors that are very technical, and not worth the bother. Your board is setup to run PC100 memory, or memory that clocks at 100 MHz. Make sure that you buy memory that is the same clock speed. Don't even consider buying SIMMs. Just a big waste of money. The BIOS date on the motherboard is old, pre-1988, which means that you may have some concerns in getting a new hard drive to work with this system. How large is the hard drive you plan on using? If it is too big, you will need to either flash the BIOS with an update (you need to know who made the motherboard, check their site, if they have one, download the update and apply it) or add BIOS Update Card to an ISA slot. the cards are not cheap at around $40-$50 USD. But, if a BIOS update can't be found, it the only way to use a drive that would be out of the BIOS's ability to work with. Most drives come with software designed to handle older BIOS's, but they are designed to load in an MS-DOS environment. So, if you are looking for max sizes on a drive, something around 8 Gigs is it. I couldn't find anything specific on the S3 video card you have now. harddrake would probe the S3 chip and figure out what generic driver to use. However, if you are going to use this card, in test, I strongly urge you to install in Expert mode and specifically pick the 3.3.6 version of X-server. Even then, there's no guarantee that you will find the right combinations of frequencies to make X-windows come up. Trial and error, even if the card is supported. I have no experience with the newer generation Diamond video cards, so I can't offer any help as top whether the Diamond/Voodoo combination will work well. If the card is new, go with the 4.2.2 X-server. If it is older? Which ever one works best for you, or at all. XFree86 3.3.6 gives better 3D support on older accelerated cards (so it says on the install screen). NICs using the Realtek chips are fine for Linux. They are the most common outside of 3Coms and they are picked up by Linux readily enough. Questions: 1) Monitor? 2) Hard Drive capacity? 3) Sound Card? 4) Modem? 5) Anything else? Does this help any? T :-) - Original Message - From: Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Min spec On Tuesday 19 Nov 2002 12:38 pm, Technoslick wrote: Tell us more about the specs for this older box, Anne. This the perfect place to find if anyone has had any problems with older components in Linux. T OK - this is what I have gleaned so far - M'board - Mainboard Pentium MMX - driver disk is name PC100 CPU AMD 6x86MX 233 BIOS date 7/15/95 Current RAM is 2x16 + 2x32 Mb (96 in all) in SIMMS. Manual says Mobo 'Supports 3 banks of FP/EDO SIMM/DIMM and SDRAM DIMM expandable memory up to 384 Mb'. It also says that it can mix SIMMS and DIMMS, using SIMM banks 3-4 and the two DIMM slots (they quote equally loaded, but I don't know whether it is necessary, or whether it reflects availability of DIMMS at that time). Current video - VidelExcel S3 Proposed changes - Diamond graphics card + Voodoo accelerator (I don't know whether this is the same Voodoo card that Ronald meant - it may be earlier) which appears to have chipsets labelled 3Dfx. Realtek NIC 128Mb DIMM - I presume no-one is going to recommend keeping the 64Mb SIMMS? Any comments/suggestions welcomed - even if it is 'forget it' :-) Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Wednesday 20 Nov 2002 1:24 pm, Technoslick wrote: Stick with DIMMs. Mixing the two is not simply a matter of placing the memory physically in the slots. There are several factors that are very technical, and not worth the bother. Your board is setup to run PC100 memory, or memory that clocks at 100 MHz. Make sure that you buy memory that is the same clock speed. Don't even consider buying SIMMs. Just a big waste of money. Definitely wouldn't buy SIMMS - just whether to use what's there, but I think you're right, it would be better to just use the 128Mb DIMM. On the question of clock speed, however, I think it's not easy to get 100 MHz DIMMS now - they all seem to be 133. I know you can often get away with running them at the slower clock speed, but I'm sure I have read that it's not always OK. Trouble is I can't remember the circumstances. Any comments? The BIOS date on the motherboard is old, pre-1988, which means that you may have some concerns in getting a new hard drive to work with this system. How large is the hard drive you plan on using? If it is too big, you will need to either flash the BIOS with an update (you need to know who made the motherboard, check their site, if they have one, download the update and apply it) or add BIOS Update Card to an ISA slot. the cards are not cheap at around $40-$50 USD. But, if a BIOS update can't be found, it the only way to use a drive that would be out of the BIOS's ability to work with. Most drives come with software designed to handle older BIOS's, but they are designed to load in an MS-DOS environment. So, if you are looking for max sizes on a drive, something around 8 Gigs is it. Yeah - this is a 8Gb max. bios. I can give it a couple of 4Gb disks, and just be careful not to install too many programs. I couldn't find anything specific on the S3 video card you have now. harddrake would probe the S3 chip and figure out what generic driver to use. However, if you are going to use this card, in test, I strongly urge you to install in Expert mode and specifically pick the 3.3.6 version of X-server. Even then, there's no guarantee that you will find the right combinations of frequencies to make X-windows come up. Trial and error, even if the card is supported. It's very old, I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. I have no experience with the newer generation Diamond video cards, so I can't offer any help as top whether the Diamond/Voodoo combination will work well. If the card is new, go with the 4.2.2 X-server. If it is older? Which ever one works best for you, or at all. XFree86 3.3.6 gives better 3D support on older accelerated cards (so it says on the install screen). The Diamond card is the same age as the Voodoo, and was used with it originally. I'll remember what you say about the XFree86 version. I also have an ATi RagePro card (PCI) - again an early one - but I assume that the problems with ATi cards make this a poor choice. NICs using the Realtek chips are fine for Linux. They are the most common outside of 3Coms and they are picked up by Linux readily enough. I use nothing else - even the SMC EZ cards are Realtek. Questions: 1) Monitor? Bog standard vga, I think with Voodoo would be capable of 1024x768 at 16 bit. 2) Hard Drive capacity? See above 3) Sound Card? Creative Soundblaster - again early model. 4) Modem? Not required - will connect via lan. 5) Anything else? Don't think so. Does this help any? Definitely, thanks Anne - Original Message - From: Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Min spec On Tuesday 19 Nov 2002 12:38 pm, Technoslick wrote: Tell us more about the specs for this older box, Anne. This the perfect place to find if anyone has had any problems with older components in Linux. T OK - this is what I have gleaned so far - M'board - Mainboard Pentium MMX - driver disk is name PC100 CPU AMD 6x86MX 233 BIOS date 7/15/95 Current RAM is 2x16 + 2x32 Mb (96 in all) in SIMMS. Manual says Mobo 'Supports 3 banks of FP/EDO SIMM/DIMM and SDRAM DIMM expandable memory up to 384 Mb'. It also says that it can mix SIMMS and DIMMS, using SIMM banks 3-4 and the two DIMM slots (they quote equally loaded, but I don't know whether it is necessary, or whether it reflects availability of DIMMS at that time). Current video - VidelExcel S3 Proposed changes - Diamond graphics card + Voodoo accelerator (I don't know whether this is the same Voodoo card that Ronald meant - it may be earlier) which appears to have chipsets labelled 3Dfx. Realtek NIC 128Mb DIMM - I presume no-one is going to recommend keeping the 64Mb SIMMS? Any comments/suggestions welcomed - even if it is 'forget it' :-) Anne --- - Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go
Re: [newbie] Min spec
There's some timing, density and type issues with mixing SIMMs and DIMMs together. If you have the manual for the motherboard, it probably tells you this, although cryptically so. I have tried it, not always with success. Even with initial success, you can have problems later on. If you don't have to do it to get your memory volume I wouldn't want you to go through the frustration. Actually, the ATi Rage Pro will work fine with Mandrake. I now remember that is what I am using in my 8.2 box for the kids/guests. It would't have the 'umph' to drive Tux Racer or any OpenGL stuff, but has been good to me, so far. I believe it has 8 MBs of RAM on it. Just use the 3.3.6 X-server. You know, I have yet to get even 3 Gigs of programs on a drive from an installation. That's a workstation, mind you, but still with all the games, bells, whistles and Windows manager (KDE and Gnome.) I would think 8 Gigs will be fine for him to learn on. I think that it is more a speed issue in using these 'tiny' drives. The smaller drives are not as fast, and since a swap file is needed, drive speed dramatically affects system speed. Aw, well. :-) You use what you have. I have a 3 and 2 Gig Samsung in the kids' PC. When you say standard vga, you make my eyebrows pop up with concern. True standard VGA cannot support resolutions above 640X480 and sometimes not beyond 16 color, which is nearly useless in X-windows. Do you have any specs on the monitor? Can it really reach 1024X768 at 16-bits? When the video card is capable of driving more color depth and a higher frequency than the monitor can take, this is when the utmost caution is necessary. Frying a monitor in Linux is so-o-o-o easy to do! I love using the SB 16s because they are still supported so well and easy to configure. There's a good chance that you will be to us 'sndconfig' at the console level, after installation, to get the card working, but still no sweat. Not great sound, but work wonderfully in Linux. Sounds like a project destined to work! I wish I could get my daughters interested in such a project. Maybe, it's a 'generation' thing, and I will have to wait for grandchildren? T :-) - Original Message - From: Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Min spec On Wednesday 20 Nov 2002 1:24 pm, Technoslick wrote: Stick with DIMMs. Mixing the two is not simply a matter of placing the memory physically in the slots. There are several factors that are very technical, and not worth the bother. Your board is setup to run PC100 memory, or memory that clocks at 100 MHz. Make sure that you buy memory that is the same clock speed. Don't even consider buying SIMMs. Just a big waste of money. Definitely wouldn't buy SIMMS - just whether to use what's there, but I think you're right, it would be better to just use the 128Mb DIMM. On the question of clock speed, however, I think it's not easy to get 100 MHz DIMMS now - they all seem to be 133. I know you can often get away with running them at the slower clock speed, but I'm sure I have read that it's not always OK. Trouble is I can't remember the circumstances. Any comments? The BIOS date on the motherboard is old, pre-1988, which means that you may have some concerns in getting a new hard drive to work with this system. How large is the hard drive you plan on using? If it is too big, you will need to either flash the BIOS with an update (you need to know who made the motherboard, check their site, if they have one, download the update and apply it) or add BIOS Update Card to an ISA slot. the cards are not cheap at around $40-$50 USD. But, if a BIOS update can't be found, it the only way to use a drive that would be out of the BIOS's ability to work with. Most drives come with software designed to handle older BIOS's, but they are designed to load in an MS-DOS environment. So, if you are looking for max sizes on a drive, something around 8 Gigs is it. Yeah - this is a 8Gb max. bios. I can give it a couple of 4Gb disks, and just be careful not to install too many programs. I couldn't find anything specific on the S3 video card you have now. harddrake would probe the S3 chip and figure out what generic driver to use. However, if you are going to use this card, in test, I strongly urge you to install in Expert mode and specifically pick the 3.3.6 version of X-server. Even then, there's no guarantee that you will find the right combinations of frequencies to make X-windows come up. Trial and error, even if the card is supported. It's very old, I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. I have no experience with the newer generation Diamond video cards, so I can't offer any help as top whether the Diamond/Voodoo combination will work well. If the card is new, go with the 4.2.2 X-server. If it is older? Which ever one works best for you, or at all. XFree86 3.3.6 gives better 3D support on older accelerated cards (so
Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Wednesday 20 Nov 2002 2:14 pm, Technoslick wrote: There's some timing, density and type issues with mixing SIMMs and DIMMs together. If you have the manual for the motherboard, it probably tells you this, although cryptically so. I have tried it, not always with success. Even with initial success, you can have problems later on. If you don't have to do it to get your memory volume I wouldn't want you to go through the frustration. I have used them together once or twice, but feel that it is better avoided if you can. What about the DIMM clock speed issue, though? Actually, the ATi Rage Pro will work fine with Mandrake. I now remember that is what I am using in my 8.2 box for the kids/guests. It would't have the 'umph' to drive Tux Racer or any OpenGL stuff, but has been good to me, so far. I believe it has 8 MBs of RAM on it. Just use the 3.3.6 X-server. That may be easier, then, apart from the fact that it only takes up 1 slot. You know, I have yet to get even 3 Gigs of programs on a drive from an installation. That's a workstation, mind you, but still with all the games, bells, whistles and Windows manager (KDE and Gnome.) I would think 8 Gigs will be fine for him to learn on. I think that it is more a speed issue in using these 'tiny' drives. The smaller drives are not as fast, and since a swap file is needed, drive speed dramatically affects system speed. Aw, well. :-) You use what you have. I have a 3 and 2 Gig Samsung in the kids' PC. Would /swap and /home on 1 drive and the rest on the other be a good configuration? When you say standard vga, you make my eyebrows pop up with concern. True standard VGA cannot support resolutions above 640X480 and sometimes not beyond 16 color, which is nearly useless in X-windows. Do you have any specs on the monitor? Can it really reach 1024X768 at 16-bits? My bad, I think. I meant to imply that it was absolutely average. I don't have the specs, but I could probably get some - it's a Goldstar. When the video card is capable of driving more color depth and a higher frequency than the monitor can take, this is when the utmost caution is necessary. Frying a monitor in Linux is so-o-o-o easy to do! Believe it or not I still have a small drive with Win3.1 on that was once used on this computer. I think the quickest and easiest test would be to put that drive in and check what configuration windows allows. There you are - I knew there was a point to M$'s existance! I love using the SB 16s because they are still supported so well and easy to configure. There's a good chance that you will be to us 'sndconfig' at the console level, after installation, to get the card working, but still no sweat. Not great sound, but work wonderfully in Linux. Sounds like a project destined to work! I wish I could get my daughters interested in such a project. Maybe, it's a 'generation' thing, and I will have to wait for grandchildren? Could be - my daughters both just want something that works with the minimum of effort, like a hammer or screwdriver. The grandson's 14, artistically gifted, and would like to make a living in computer graphics. He's beginning to realise that the more he knows about computers and the better for his future, although I'm a bit concerned that it's a rarified career. It's funny, though, that he turns to grandma for tech support - I doubt if his friends do. But then younger daughter says I used to embarrass her when she was a teenager, because she could not own up to having a mother who had a Stranglers record! I was never a sheep - even got my MSc after I turned 60 g I used to feel lonely when I wanted to discuss tech issues, so this list is a wonderful boost. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
From: Anne Wilson I have used them together once or twice, but feel that it is better avoided if you can. What about the DIMM clock speed issue, though? T: Sorry! I forgot that you asked that. The best answer I can give you on whether you really need to buy PC100 memory: If your motherboard manual warns you to use it, as it does in the manual for a MicroStar MS-5169 motherboard, when your CPU bus frequency is 100 MHz, then you must. If your manual does not make any mention of this, the PC100 memory may have been in the system because that was all that was availble at the time. The external bus speed on a 233 MHz processor is 66.6 MHz, so I would think that you should be able to use PC133 memory. I do here, in both of my boxes that use P233 MMX's. I would not suggest mixing chips of different clock speeds. Once again, I have done it and it has worked, and then on other systems not worked. The newer and/or more advanced the motherboard, the greater the possibility that it can handle mixed speeds without a problem. Of course, the system will drop down to the lowest rating installed. Would /swap and /home on 1 drive and the rest on the other be a good configuration? T: I have to chuckle on this question because I am so lazy with this that I usually let Mandrake partition for me. If you do, it will most likely make the second drive your /home partition, dividing up the primary drive as / and /swap. The pros on having seperate partitions for the other critical directories seem moot on such a small drive configuration, but I'm sure there are many others that would have a different opinion. For what you want to do with this box, K.I.S.S. works fine in my book. Mandrake will automatically try to make /swap about 400 MBs for 128 MBs of RAM. It works for me. The rest of the primary drive is enough to squeek in pretty much all that he is going to have horsepower to run (IMHO). The 4 GB /home gives him tons of space to download his updates (and keep them, if he needs them again) or to store his personal stuff. My bad, I think. I meant to imply that it was absolutely average. I don't have the specs, but I could probably get some - it's a Goldstar. T: Goldstar has never been appreciated as quality componentry, but my experience with their goods is that they perform, and keep performing long after the name-band stuff has died and become a memory. However, the only way to know is to see if you can get specs off the manual or find them on the Web. Of all the stuff that you have in a PC, I think frying the monitor has got to be the easiest 'no-no' to accomplish. Then again, I carry my own personal, customized black cloud with me all the time, so who am I to say? ;-) Believe it or not I still have a small drive with Win3.1 on that was once used on this computer. I think the quickest and easiest test would be to put that drive in and check what configuration windows allows. There you are - I knew there was a point to M$'s existance! T: If you can't beat 'em, suck 'em dry for all they can give you! :-D Keep in mind that Win 3.1 can't drive high specs without the drivers being there for the display adapter. If you put the ATi card in, you will need ATi Win 3.x drivers to see what the display can handle. Then you'll have to manually bump the frequency up until it won't display. It's a lot of work to do it in Win 3.x. Lastly, the monitor that I fried not too long ago in Linux had no problems running 1024X768, 24-bit and at a frequncy of 70 Hz in Windows. Linux is notorious for trying to drive refresh rate well beyond 75 Hz, which will kill older monitors. In the absense of specs, I would install without testing X-windows, then deal with it it later in Xconfigurator. With or without specs, you can still use Xconfigurator to manually put your horizontal and vertical frequencies in, or edit the 'XF86Config' file manually with an editor. Could be - my daughters both just want something that works with the minimum of effort, like a hammer or screwdriver. The grandson's 14, artistically gifted, and would like to make a living in computer graphics. He's beginning to realise that the more he knows about computers and the better for his future, although I'm a bit concerned that it's a rarified career. It's funny, though, that he turns to grandma for tech support - I doubt if his friends do. But then younger daughter says I used to embarrass her when she was a teenager, because she could not own up to having a mother who had a Stranglers record! I was never a sheep - even got my MSc after I turned 60 g I used to feel lonely when I wanted to discuss tech issues, so this list is a wonderful boost. Anne T: OK, Anne, you are now intmidating me! I wish I had had a gramndma like you. sigh And yes, it is lonely not having someone to discuss this stuff with. That's what makes this group so important to all of us. For those of us that haven't learned it all (my hand is raised high on this one!), this is really a
Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Wednesday 20 Nov 2002 3:55 pm, Technoslick wrote: From: Anne Wilson The external bus speed on a 233 MHz processor is 66.6 MHz, so I would think that you should be able to use PC133 memory. I think it will be OK if I can't get PC100. I'll just stick to the one DIMM, I think - mixed speed problems avoided. Would /swap and /home on 1 drive and the rest on the other be a good configuration? T: I have to chuckle on this question because I am so lazy with this that I usually let Mandrake partition for me. If you do, it will most likely make the second drive your /home partition, dividing up the primary drive as / and /swap. The pros on having seperate partitions for the other critical directories seem moot on such a small drive configuration, but I'm sure there are many others that would have a different opinion. For what you want to do with this box, K.I.S.S. works fine in my book. Mandrake will automatically try to make /swap about 400 MBs for 128 MBs of RAM. It works for me. The rest of the primary drive is enough to squeek in pretty much all that he is going to have horsepower to run (IMHO). The 4 GB /home gives him tons of space to download his updates (and keep them, if he needs them again) or to store his personal stuff. Sounds OK to me. I'll leave it to it then. My bad, I think. I meant to imply that it was absolutely average. I don't have the specs, but I could probably get some - it's a Goldstar. T: Goldstar has never been appreciated as quality componentry, but my experience with their goods is that they perform, and keep performing long after the name-band stuff has died and become a memory. However, the only way to know is to see if you can get specs off the manual or find them on the Web. Of all the stuff that you have in a PC, I think frying the monitor has got to be the easiest 'no-no' to accomplish. Then again, I carry my own personal, customized black cloud with me all the time, so who am I to say? Lastly, the monitor that I fried not too long ago in Linux had no problems running 1024X768, 24-bit and at a frequncy of 70 Hz in Windows. Linux is notorious for trying to drive refresh rate well beyond 75 Hz, which will kill older monitors. My monitor is a low spec Taxan LCD, so not capable of high refresh rates. The display problem I had there under 8.2 was that the os identified it as a high performance 1024x768, capable of 70Hz. When I booted up I had a large blue patch saying that 85Hz was not advisable. 85Hz? Anyway, I found that the next entry on the list was 1024x768 without the high performance bit, and everything was fine after that. But I still don't know whey it was trying 85 when it had identified it as capable of 70. I couldn't care less about owning up to what I don't know, as long as someone is willing to teach me more. I'm not proud - I'll pick anyone's brains ;-) Anyway, it seems that you have the making of a 1st-timer. As long as your grandson doesn't expect the world from it, he should enjoy it. You do realize, don't you, that if his mind grabs on to Linux, you will be asking him for help very soon? giggle Can't wait! Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
On Wednesday November 20 2002 11:42 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 20 Nov 2002 3:55 pm, Technoslick wrote: From: Anne Wilson The external bus speed on a 233 MHz processor is 66.6 MHz, so I would think that you should be able to use PC133 memory. Ram is what it'll do. The PC66, 100, 133, etc. labels are just that, marketing labels. My daughter is usin a pc (for years now) with ancient generic 66mhz ram runnin at 112mhz, Cas3 (PII-350 at 392, Aopen mobo). It'll pass memtest86 at 133mhz, Cas3. Twice it's 'label' ; The system I'm typing on is usin 5 year old pc100 at 135mhz, Cas2 (1.4 Tbird at 1.55gig, Soyo), mixed with two other Crucial pc133 sticks (7.5ns, Cas2). They all get a steady 3.45v IO from the Soyo and Sparkle power supply, APC UPS. Quality ram is important, but even the best ram won't perform properly on marginal (cheap) motherboards. In many systems the motherboard is more important than the ram's rating for optimal, or even just adequate memory performance. Ram is more properly spec'd in terms of ns and Cas rating and the quality and design of the pcb (the card) the ram chips are on. As always the power supply is also a _very_ important element. FWIW, the old pc100 will pass memtest86 runnin forever at 155mhz Cas3, -0- errors on a Soyo (6ba+III, 3.5v IO). It was labeled pc100, but it's quality Mosel Vitelic 8ns Cas2 ram. To figure what ram is needed (assuming a good mobo and psu), take 1000 divided by the FSB speed. EG, 1000/155 = 6.45. So that old pc100 was runnin at 6.45ns when it blew by the memtest86 tests flawlessly ;) For DDR sdram (another marketing gimick) use one half, EG, pc2700, 266mhz ram really runs at 133mhz. So 1000/133 = 7.5ns. Cas isn't as important. Altho theorectically it addresses in 2/3's the cycles, the real world enhancement is about 5 to 7%. I'd advise to always buy Cas2 rated ram tho. So, ram is what it'll do. 'Sides it doesn't determine how it's timed, the motherboard does (bios settings, IO voltage, capacitors), and it needs steady, clean power. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec (alt. OSes on old hardware)
For an old system try this OS for a faster system then a Linux OS system using the same hardware http://www.freedos.org/ (note: it will run on a 286 cpu or older cpu) :-) and if you have a CD drive try this link http://www.freedos.org/freedos/files/ for the CD image iso (55,456 KB)or the zip file (39,957 KB) watch the link wrap http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/ripcord/beta8h01/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec (alt. OSes on old hardware)
On Wednesday 20 Nov 2002 11:04 pm, SystemAdmin ABC Mini Storage LLC wrote: For an old system try this OS for a faster system then a Linux OS system using the same hardware http://www.freedos.org/ (note: it will run on a 286 cpu or older cpu) :-) and if you have a CD drive try this link http://www.freedos.org/freedos/files/ for the CD image iso (55,456 KB)or the zip file (39,957 KB) watch the link wrap http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/ripco rd/beta8h01/ I'm sure that's good advice in other circumstances, but the purpose of this exercise is experience of building a system and introduction to linux. Thanks anyway Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Min spec
Anne, I have a box running 8.2 for my daughters when they are home to visit, and for any guest that would want to get on-line. It's a Intel P133 MHz, 128 MB RAM running two 3 GB HDs. I can't recall the video card, off-hand. KDE starts up slow as molassas in January, but once up, is adequate for what the box is used for. If you think he is going to need a powerful GUI that looks and functions more like Windows on this old box, I think that 8.2 would run better for him. If he would be more interested in roughing it, as most young men like to, and sans a GUI, or work with a lighter version, I don't see why 9.0 wouldn't be a great choice. The RAM has to be up around the 128 MB mark, in my opinion, where 64 MBs of RAM will work OK for 8.2. The more RAM the better, as you well know. If you have to pick the best of anything in your spare parts bin, make it the video card! Keep in mind that the video card and ability of the monitor to go hi-freq without destroying itself are important. I have already ruined one older monitor by running X-windows too 'hot' for the monitor's capabilities. You are definitely going to want to load XFree86 3.3.6 instead of 4.2.2, Xconfigurator, and your favorite text editor. I also would recommend that you both do the X-windows testing after installation, not during. Tell us more about the specs for this older box, Anne. This the perfect place to find if anyone has had any problems with older components in Linux. T - Original Message - From: Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 4:38 AM Subject: [newbie] Min spec I hope to rebuild an elderly pc with my grandson, who is now showing interest iin migrating. He knows that at best it will be dog-slow, but is happy to use it as a learning situation. I would like to install 9.0, but what, in terms of cpu and ram would you consider absolute minimum - remember that ti doesn't have to be a really useable speed. Also, would I be likely to have problems with a pci video card? I intend checking out the options this week. I have a fair computer graveyard, so I'm hopeful of being able to do something with it. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
