RE: Mac and Windows mix

[James Hill]

And I think you mean "/grammar nazi mode OFF"


-Original Message-
From: Angus Scott-Fleming [mailto:angu...@geoapps.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 4:30 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

On 8 Sep 2010 at 18:40, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:

> You keep ignoring the basic tenant people are pointing out to you.

[grammar nazi mode ON] I think you mean "tenet" [/grandma nazi mode OFF]

--
Angus Scott-Fleming
GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
1-520-290-5038
Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/





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Re: google instant

[Micheal Espinola Jr]

Oh dear!

--
ME2


On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Steven M. Caesare wrote:

> # lynx www.google.com
>
>  Web Images Videos Maps News Shopping Gmail more >
>   iGoogle | Settings | Sign in
>
>   Google
>
>
>   _
>   Google Search I'm Feeling Lucky Advanced
> SearchLanguage Tools
>
>   Advertising ProgramsBusiness SolutionsAbout Google
>
>  (c) 2010 - Privacy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (NORMAL LINK) Use right-arrow or  to activate.
>  Arrow keys: Up and Down to move.  Right to follow a link; Left to go
> back.
>  H)elp O)ptions P)rint G)o M)ain screen Q)uit /=search [delete]=history
> list
>
> -sc
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:13 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: google instant
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Lists - Level 5 
> wrote:
> > Not sure anyone mentioned this or not..
>
>  I did.  I think it's fscking annoying.  I do not want the entire
> screen freaking out every time I press a key. It also jacks up my page
> position in the search, which I sometimes want to go back to.
> Fortunately, it's easy to turn off.
>
>  Google needs a "Luddite" option for people like me.  We could just
> check that box and stay in 1998, without JavaScript or iGoogle or
> wallpaper or gadgets or instant search or sudoku search or whatever damn
> thing the marketing department dreams up next.  I just want to search
> the web.  If I wanted that crap I'd use MSN Search.  I mean Windows Live
> Search.  I mean Bing.
>
>  "Back in my day, we only had one ring tone, and it sounded like...
> the phone." (Tom Bodett)
>
> 
>
> -- Ben
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
>   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
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> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
>

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~   ~

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Angus Scott-Fleming]

On 8 Sep 2010 at 18:40, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:

> You keep ignoring the basic tenant people are pointing out to you.

[grammar nazi mode ON] I think you mean "tenet" [/grandma nazi mode OFF]

--
Angus Scott-Fleming
GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
1-520-290-5038
Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/





~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
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RE: Completely off topic

[Brian Desmond]

There are lots of Hoover Dam tours from Vegas including helicopter tours. 
Depending on what you're doing in Vegas other than the strip/downtown, parking 
the rental car for five days there may be a silly move financially. You can 
always rent a car for a day from one of the hotel rental car places or even 
worst case the airport. 

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c - 312.731.3132



-Original Message-
From: James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:15 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Completely off topic

We are considering flying to Grand Canyon because of the distance.  Hopefully 
there is some sort of tour that includes the Hoover Dam as I really want to see 
that.

Thanks for the O! and thrill ride tips.  I'll check out both of those.

Think I'll pass on Disneyland this time.

-Original Message-
From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 12:49 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Completely off topic

You definitely want to see the Grand Canyon, but be prepared for a LONG 
drive from LV, depending on where you go to see it. We took a tour bus (we 
didn't have a car on that trip) and it literally took us all day to get there 
and back, crossing over Hoover Dam in the process - but we didn't get to stop 
except for long enough to snap a picture on the hill side. Speaking of which 
get a tour of Hoover Dam if you can - it really is a modern marvel. You may not 
be able to get both Hoover Dam and Grand Canyon in the same day without 
spending the night, but there are cabins that you can rent in Grand Canyon 
National Park.

As for the shows, I would definitely try to see O! There are nights that most 
shows are dark, so plan any shows you want to see accordingly.

Also, if you enjoy thrill rides, there are a number of coasters on the strip 
and three rides at the top of the Stratosphere that are MUST DOs, IMO.

Near LA is Disneyland, but if you can ever make it to Florida, Disney World 
simply blows Disneyland out of the water. Knott's Berry Farm is also not far 
from Disneyland, IIRC.

Do I sound like a tourist yet?

Have a great trip, and tell us all about it!

Jonathan L. Raper, MCSE

Thumb-typed from my HTC Incredible (and yes, it really is) Droid. Please excuse 
brevity & any misspellings.

- Reply message -
From: "James Hill" 
Date: Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:46 pm
Subject: OT: Completely off topic
To: "NT System Admin Issues" 

Haha.. ok on list it is.

I'll be on the West Coast.  Mainly after things to do in LA and Vegas.  Have 
4-6 days in LA and 5 in Vegas so not a lot of time.  Will have a car though.  
After that I'm on a boat for 7 days down to Mexico and back.

So far for LA:-


* Tar Pits

* Long Beach

* Universal Studios

* Eat something with cheese on it (I've heard it's really hard to find 
in the U.S. :))

Vegas:-


* Grand Canyon (of course)

* cirque du soleil

* Obvious stuff like walking the strip and checking out each of the big 
casinos

* Crazy as it sounds I'm more interested in the shows etc rather than 
the gambling.

I'll be sure to bring some koala toys (after I remove the made in china label). 
 I've heard I'll have to talk slow so that you Yanks can understand me.

As for the "crikey!" comment I actually don't live that far from Australia Zoo 
which was built by Steve Irwin (which is one of the few people that ever uses 
that word these days)

Wouldn't mind jumping around like a fool in front of a Microsoft Kinect if I 
can find one.

James.



From: Richard Stovall [mailto:rich...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 11:05 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: OT: Completely off topic

Crikey, mate!  If you want "some tips from some of the locals on this list", 
just ask.  We're already here!

And since you asked, here are a few:

1) North America is really, really large.  (Maybe even larger than Australia!)  
The farther north you go, the heavier clothing you'll need.
2) Always buy Americans a beer first.  After that they'll fall all over 
themselves to return the kindness for the rest of the night.  And to hear your 
funny accent.  Seriously.  You'll come out way ahead on this one, and save a 
tonne of money.
3) 2) Does not work on people from Canada or Mexico.
4) Tell them your great grandfather was a hardened, unrepentant criminal from 
England.  They expect to hear it anyway, even if he was a priest, or an 
Aborigine, or a Prime Minister.
5) Bring your a Koala with you as an ice breaker.  Everyone has one, right?

If I've missed anything, just ask.

Cheers, G'day, and all that stuff.

RS

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:03 PM, James Hill 
mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au>> wrote:
I'm holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some tips from 
some of the locals on this list.

I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  I

RE: OT: Completely off topic

[Brian Desmond]

You might consider substituting San Diego and/or San Francisco for one or both 
of the subsequent LA trips. You can drive LA-San Diego easily, and flights are 
extremely frequent (often twice an hour) and very inexpensive LAX<>SFO. Check 
United and Southwest (not in any booking search tool). I think a lot of those 
cruises go out of like Long Beach - it's got some nice areas, you want to check 
out the Belmont Shore area (2nd street IIRC) for dinner there.

Ping me offline and we can talk food. I have some good places in Santa Monica 
too - I usually stay at the LAX airport so Santa Monica is nearby for dinner.

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c - 312.731.3132


From: James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:13 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: OT: Completely off topic

Thanks Brian.  Keen on the food recommendations.  I had the Getty on my list 
too as I have heard it's good.

Vegas accommodation is locked in but we only have the first visit to LA booked 
accommodation wise (and actually staying at Santa Monica).  Basically it's 
LA/santa monica (2 days) - Vegas (5 days) - LA (2days) - Cruise/mexico (7 days) 
- LA (2days) - Home.




From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 1:43 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: OT: Completely off topic

Add Hoover Dam to your Vegas list.

Do you like good (like really good) food? That's probably my favorite thing to 
do (and spend money on) in both of these places. If you want some food 
recommendations in LA let me know. I'd also look up when the Food Trucks are 
all out in Venice (it's a couple days a month I think) as they're a unique 
experience.

In LA, I'd add The Getty, Venice, Santa Monica, possibly drive down to San 
Diego (spend a night or two there it's really nice and totally different - only 
like 90 mins away). The USS Midway is fun in San Diego, you can actually take 
light rail to Tijuana also. Drive through like La Jolla and such along the 
coast. In general driving along the coast (PCH) is generally very pretty. 
Topanga Canyon north of LA is a fun drive. The San Diego Zoo is one of the top 
zoos out there (though I haven't yet been). Legoland and Disneyland are nearby 
to both if you're in to either of those things. Hollywood walk of fame of 
course. Personally I think you have too much time in both of these places. Are 
you open to customizing a bit?



Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c - 312.731.3132


From: James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:45 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: OT: Completely off topic

Haha.. ok on list it is.

I'll be on the West Coast.  Mainly after things to do in LA and Vegas.  Have 
4-6 days in LA and 5 in Vegas so not a lot of time.  Will have a car though.  
After that I'm on a boat for 7 days down to Mexico and back.

So far for LA:-


*Tar Pits

*Long Beach

*Universal Studios

*Eat something with cheese on it (I've heard it's really hard to find 
in the U.S. :))

Vegas:-


*Grand Canyon (of course)

*cirque du soleil

*Obvious stuff like walking the strip and checking out each of the big 
casinos

*Crazy as it sounds I'm more interested in the shows etc rather than 
the gambling.

I'll be sure to bring some koala toys (after I remove the made in china label). 
 I've heard I'll have to talk slow so that you Yanks can understand me.

As for the "crikey!" comment I actually don't live that far from Australia Zoo 
which was built by Steve Irwin (which is one of the few people that ever uses 
that word these days)

Wouldn't mind jumping around like a fool in front of a Microsoft Kinect if I 
can find one.

James.



From: Richard Stovall [mailto:rich...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 11:05 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: OT: Completely off topic

Crikey, mate!  If you want "some tips from some of the locals on this list", 
just ask.  We're already here!

And since you asked, here are a few:

1) North America is really, really large.  (Maybe even larger than Australia!)  
The farther north you go, the heavier clothing you'll need.
2) Always buy Americans a beer first.  After that they'll fall all over 
themselves to return the kindness for the rest of the night.  And to hear your 
funny accent.  Seriously.  You'll come out way ahead on this one, and save a 
tonne of money.
3) 2) Does not work on people from Canada or Mexico.
4) Tell them your great grandfather was a hardened, unrepentant criminal from 
England.  They expect to hear it anyway, even if he was a priest, or an 
Aborigine, or a Prime Minister.
5) Bring your a Koala with you as an ice breaker.  Everyone has one, right?

If I've missed anything, just ask.

Cheers, G'day, and all that stuff.

RS

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:03 PM, James Hill 
mailto:james.h...

RE: Mac and Windows mix

[James Hill]

Yep it's an Intel Graphics feature.  Same key combo is the default to release 
the mouse(or something like that) from a Virtualbox window... that tricked me 
up the first time :)

-Original Message-
From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 2:48 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Intel Control Center implements this, not Windows itself.

You can do the same via the Windows Mobility Centre, but I'm not aware of a 
short-cut key combination for it

Cheers
Ken

-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 12:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
>>  My favorite is Ctrl+Alt+RightArrow, which rotates the screen image
>> 90 degrees.  Of course, I only use it on other people's computers...
>
> In the Win7 shell?

  I dunno, it works on XP at %WORK%.  It might actually be implemented by video 
card software; maybe it's not a feature of 'doze itself.

-- Ben


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
  ~

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RE: Completely off topic

[James Hill]

So it IS like Fight Club.


From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 12:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Completely off topic

Other list?

We don't talk about that other non-existent list.

-sc

From: James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:03 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: OT: Completely off topic

I'm holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some tips from 
some of the locals on this list.

I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone would be 
kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be appreciated.

Unless of course it is like Fight Club.

James.


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
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listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

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~   ~

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RE: Completely off topic

[James Hill]

We are considering flying to Grand Canyon because of the distance.  Hopefully 
there is some sort of tour that includes the Hoover Dam as I really want to see 
that.

Thanks for the O! and thrill ride tips.  I'll check out both of those.

Think I'll pass on Disneyland this time.

-Original Message-
From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 12:49 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Completely off topic

You definitely want to see the Grand Canyon, but be prepared for a LONG 
drive from LV, depending on where you go to see it. We took a tour bus (we 
didn't have a car on that trip) and it literally took us all day to get there 
and back, crossing over Hoover Dam in the process - but we didn't get to stop 
except for long enough to snap a picture on the hill side. Speaking of which 
get a tour of Hoover Dam if you can - it really is a modern marvel. You may not 
be able to get both Hoover Dam and Grand Canyon in the same day without 
spending the night, but there are cabins that you can rent in Grand Canyon 
National Park.

As for the shows, I would definitely try to see O! There are nights that most 
shows are dark, so plan any shows you want to see accordingly.

Also, if you enjoy thrill rides, there are a number of coasters on the strip 
and three rides at the top of the Stratosphere that are MUST DOs, IMO.

Near LA is Disneyland, but if you can ever make it to Florida, Disney World 
simply blows Disneyland out of the water. Knott's Berry Farm is also not far 
from Disneyland, IIRC.

Do I sound like a tourist yet?

Have a great trip, and tell us all about it!

Jonathan L. Raper, MCSE

Thumb-typed from my HTC Incredible (and yes, it really is) Droid. Please excuse 
brevity & any misspellings.

- Reply message -
From: "James Hill" 
Date: Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:46 pm
Subject: OT: Completely off topic
To: "NT System Admin Issues" 

Haha.. ok on list it is.

I'll be on the West Coast.  Mainly after things to do in LA and Vegas.  Have 
4-6 days in LA and 5 in Vegas so not a lot of time.  Will have a car though.  
After that I'm on a boat for 7 days down to Mexico and back.

So far for LA:-


* Tar Pits

* Long Beach

* Universal Studios

* Eat something with cheese on it (I've heard it's really hard to find 
in the U.S. :))

Vegas:-


* Grand Canyon (of course)

* cirque du soleil

* Obvious stuff like walking the strip and checking out each of the big 
casinos

* Crazy as it sounds I'm more interested in the shows etc rather than 
the gambling.

I'll be sure to bring some koala toys (after I remove the made in china label). 
 I've heard I'll have to talk slow so that you Yanks can understand me.

As for the "crikey!" comment I actually don't live that far from Australia Zoo 
which was built by Steve Irwin (which is one of the few people that ever uses 
that word these days)

Wouldn't mind jumping around like a fool in front of a Microsoft Kinect if I 
can find one.

James.



From: Richard Stovall [mailto:rich...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 11:05 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: OT: Completely off topic

Crikey, mate!  If you want "some tips from some of the locals on this list", 
just ask.  We're already here!

And since you asked, here are a few:

1) North America is really, really large.  (Maybe even larger than Australia!)  
The farther north you go, the heavier clothing you'll need.
2) Always buy Americans a beer first.  After that they'll fall all over 
themselves to return the kindness for the rest of the night.  And to hear your 
funny accent.  Seriously.  You'll come out way ahead on this one, and save a 
tonne of money.
3) 2) Does not work on people from Canada or Mexico.
4) Tell them your great grandfather was a hardened, unrepentant criminal from 
England.  They expect to hear it anyway, even if he was a priest, or an 
Aborigine, or a Prime Minister.
5) Bring your a Koala with you as an ice breaker.  Everyone has one, right?

If I've missed anything, just ask.

Cheers, G'day, and all that stuff.

RS

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:03 PM, James Hill 
mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au>> wrote:
I'm holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some tips from 
some of the locals on this list.

I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone would be 
kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be appreciated.

Unless of course it is like Fight Club.

James.


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
  ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to 
listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 

RE: OT: Completely off topic

[James Hill]

Thanks Brian.  Keen on the food recommendations.  I had the Getty on my list 
too as I have heard it's good.

Vegas accommodation is locked in but we only have the first visit to LA booked 
accommodation wise (and actually staying at Santa Monica).  Basically it's 
LA/santa monica (2 days) - Vegas (5 days) - LA (2days) - Cruise/mexico (7 days) 
- LA (2days) - Home.




From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 1:43 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: OT: Completely off topic

Add Hoover Dam to your Vegas list.

Do you like good (like really good) food? That's probably my favorite thing to 
do (and spend money on) in both of these places. If you want some food 
recommendations in LA let me know. I'd also look up when the Food Trucks are 
all out in Venice (it's a couple days a month I think) as they're a unique 
experience.

In LA, I'd add The Getty, Venice, Santa Monica, possibly drive down to San 
Diego (spend a night or two there it's really nice and totally different - only 
like 90 mins away). The USS Midway is fun in San Diego, you can actually take 
light rail to Tijuana also. Drive through like La Jolla and such along the 
coast. In general driving along the coast (PCH) is generally very pretty. 
Topanga Canyon north of LA is a fun drive. The San Diego Zoo is one of the top 
zoos out there (though I haven't yet been). Legoland and Disneyland are nearby 
to both if you're in to either of those things. Hollywood walk of fame of 
course. Personally I think you have too much time in both of these places. Are 
you open to customizing a bit?



Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c - 312.731.3132


From: James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:45 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: OT: Completely off topic

Haha.. ok on list it is.

I'll be on the West Coast.  Mainly after things to do in LA and Vegas.  Have 
4-6 days in LA and 5 in Vegas so not a lot of time.  Will have a car though.  
After that I'm on a boat for 7 days down to Mexico and back.

So far for LA:-


* Tar Pits

* Long Beach

* Universal Studios

* Eat something with cheese on it (I've heard it's really hard to find 
in the U.S. :))

Vegas:-


* Grand Canyon (of course)

* cirque du soleil

* Obvious stuff like walking the strip and checking out each of the big 
casinos

* Crazy as it sounds I'm more interested in the shows etc rather than 
the gambling.

I'll be sure to bring some koala toys (after I remove the made in china label). 
 I've heard I'll have to talk slow so that you Yanks can understand me.

As for the "crikey!" comment I actually don't live that far from Australia Zoo 
which was built by Steve Irwin (which is one of the few people that ever uses 
that word these days)

Wouldn't mind jumping around like a fool in front of a Microsoft Kinect if I 
can find one.

James.



From: Richard Stovall [mailto:rich...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 11:05 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: OT: Completely off topic

Crikey, mate!  If you want "some tips from some of the locals on this list", 
just ask.  We're already here!

And since you asked, here are a few:

1) North America is really, really large.  (Maybe even larger than Australia!)  
The farther north you go, the heavier clothing you'll need.
2) Always buy Americans a beer first.  After that they'll fall all over 
themselves to return the kindness for the rest of the night.  And to hear your 
funny accent.  Seriously.  You'll come out way ahead on this one, and save a 
tonne of money.
3) 2) Does not work on people from Canada or Mexico.
4) Tell them your great grandfather was a hardened, unrepentant criminal from 
England.  They expect to hear it anyway, even if he was a priest, or an 
Aborigine, or a Prime Minister.
5) Bring your a Koala with you as an ice breaker.  Everyone has one, right?

If I've missed anything, just ask.

Cheers, G'day, and all that stuff.

RS

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:03 PM, James Hill 
mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au>> wrote:
I'm holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some tips from 
some of the locals on this list.

I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone would be 
kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be appreciated.

Unless of course it is like Fight Club.

James.


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~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Ken Schaefer]

Intel Control Center implements this, not Windows itself.

You can do the same via the Windows Mobility Centre, but I'm not aware of a 
short-cut key combination for it

Cheers
Ken

-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 12:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
>>  My favorite is Ctrl+Alt+RightArrow, which rotates the screen image
>> 90 degrees.  Of course, I only use it on other people's computers...
>
> In the Win7 shell?

  I dunno, it works on XP at %WORK%.  It might actually be implemented by video 
card software; maybe it's not a feature of 'doze itself.

-- Ben


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Brian Desmond]

That's in at least the nVidia tray app I believe.

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c - 312.731.3132



-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 9:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
>>  My favorite is Ctrl+Alt+RightArrow, which rotates the screen image
>> 90 degrees.  Of course, I only use it on other people's computers...
>
> In the Win7 shell?

  I dunno, it works on XP at %WORK%.  It might actually be implemented by video 
card software; maybe it's not a feature of 'doze itself.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
  ~

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
>>  My favorite is Ctrl+Alt+RightArrow, which rotates the screen image
>> 90 degrees.  Of course, I only use it on other people's computers...
>
> In the Win7 shell?

  I dunno, it works on XP at %WORK%.  It might actually be implemented
by video card software; maybe it's not a feature of 'doze itself.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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Re: google instant

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
>>  Google needs a "Luddite" option for people like me.  We could just
>
> # lynx www.google.com

  ROTFLMAO!

-- Ben

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven M. Caesare]

In the Win7 shell?

Whatcha smokin'?

-sc

-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:17 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Steven M. Caesare
 wrote:
> That having been said, my favorite new Win7 shell keyboard shortcut is
> Shift+Win+UpArrow.

  My favorite is Ctrl+Alt+RightArrow, which rotates the screen image
90 degrees.  Of course, I only use it on other people's computers...
;-)

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
  ~

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 12:21 AM, sdewilliman  wrote:
> All said and done, Macs are user friendly. Just not sysadmin-friendly ...

  Two classic computer definitions:

Easy to use: Hard to learn.

Easy to learn: Hard to use.

-- Ben

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RE: Completely off topic

[Steven M. Caesare]

Not that I can tell you about^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H know of.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:14 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Completely off topic

 

There's a list?

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

What list?

 

-sc

 

From: William J. Robbins [mailto:dangerw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:10 AM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Completely off topic

 

That list can never exist. That would mean you were sane at some point. 


WJR
- from my Crackberry.

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."



From: "Steven M. Caesare"  

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 00:08:23 -0400

To: NT System Admin Issues

ReplyTo: "NT System Admin Issues"


Subject: RE: Completely off topic

 

Nor list to help keep you sane when the other non-existent list gets out
of hand.

 

No, really.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:02 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Completely off topic

 

There is no Cabal either...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

Other list?

 

We don't talk about that other non-existent list.

 

-sc

 

From: James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:03 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues

Subject: OT: Completely off topic 

 

I'm holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some
tips from some of the locals on this list.

 

I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone
would be kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be
appreciated.

 

Unless of course it is like Fight Club.

 

James.

 

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RE: google instant

[Steven M. Caesare]

# lynx www.google.com

  Web Images Videos Maps News Shopping Gmail more >
   iGoogle | Settings | Sign in

   Google


   _
   Google Search I'm Feeling Lucky Advanced
SearchLanguage Tools

   Advertising ProgramsBusiness SolutionsAbout Google

  (c) 2010 - Privacy











(NORMAL LINK) Use right-arrow or  to activate.
  Arrow keys: Up and Down to move.  Right to follow a link; Left to go
back.
 H)elp O)ptions P)rint G)o M)ain screen Q)uit /=search [delete]=history
list

-sc

-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:13 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: google instant

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Lists - Level 5 
wrote:
> Not sure anyone mentioned this or not..

  I did.  I think it's fscking annoying.  I do not want the entire
screen freaking out every time I press a key. It also jacks up my page
position in the search, which I sometimes want to go back to.
Fortunately, it's easy to turn off.

  Google needs a "Luddite" option for people like me.  We could just
check that box and stay in 1998, without JavaScript or iGoogle or
wallpaper or gadgets or instant search or sudoku search or whatever damn
thing the marketing department dreams up next.  I just want to search
the web.  If I wanted that crap I'd use MSN Search.  I mean Windows Live
Search.  I mean Bing.

  "Back in my day, we only had one ring tone, and it sounded like...
the phone." (Tom Bodett)



-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
  ~

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[sdewilliman]

Actually most Mac mice, magic ones included, all invoke the contextual menu
same as other ones...kb shortcuts are also extremely useful on a mac.
Spotlight search, (cmd-space) while evil on a fileserver, I cannot do
without. 

All said and done, Macs are user friendly. Just not sysadmin-friendly,
despite what Matt says :) And if he's willing to trade tips I may not have
come across in managing them in the enterprise, I'm all ears


On 9/9/10 12:00 AM, "Ben Scott"  wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Steven M. Caesare 
> wrote:
>> But tended to be somewhat less capable for power users. No right button
>> context menus, ugh.
> 
>   I'm told that if you hook a mouse with more than one button up to a
> Mac, the right button will actually bring up a context menu for some
> things.  Haven't tried it.
> 
>   I think context menus are a wonderful thing, greatly contributing to
> ease-of-use, and I don't get why Apple is so dead set against them.
> Prolly just Not Invented Here syndrome.
> 
>> And less shortcut key combos.
> 
>   I've notice that Microsoft seems determined to take away (or at
> least make harder to find/use) shortcut keys.  Vista makes it very
> hard to find the "show shortcut keys" option (whatever it's actually
> called), and even when enabled, it doesn't seem to work consistently.
> :-p
> 
> -- Ben
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
> 
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
> That having been said, my favorite new Win7 shell keyboard shortcut is
> Shift+Win+UpArrow.

  My favorite is Ctrl+Alt+RightArrow, which rotates the screen image
90 degrees.  Of course, I only use it on other people's computers...
;-)

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Don Ely]

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=shift%2Bwin%2Bup+arrow

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:09 PM, William J. Robbins wrote:

> Ooo, something new to try. What does that combo do?
> --Original Message--
> From: Steven M. Caesare
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> ReplyTo: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix
>  Sent: Sep 8, 2010 23:07
>
> I agree.
>
> The new ribbon interfaces in the Office Apps that don't have menus
> (where you can discover keystrokes) excaerbates this.
>
> That having been said, my favorite new Win7 shell keyboard shortcut is
> Shift+Win+UpArrow.
>
> -sc
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:00 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Steven M. Caesare
>  wrote:
> > But tended to be somewhat less capable for power users. No right
> > button context menus, ugh.
>
>  I'm told that if you hook a mouse with more than one button up to a
> Mac, the right button will actually bring up a context menu for some
> things.  Haven't tried it.
>
>  I think context menus are a wonderful thing, greatly contributing to
> ease-of-use, and I don't get why Apple is so dead set against them.
> Prolly just Not Invented Here syndrome.
>
> > And less shortcut key combos.
>
>  I've notice that Microsoft seems determined to take away (or at least
> make harder to find/use) shortcut keys.  Vista makes it very hard to
> find the "show shortcut keys" option (whatever it's actually called),
> and even when enabled, it doesn't seem to work consistently.
> :-p
>
> -- Ben
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
>   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
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> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
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> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
>
>
>
> WJR
>  - from my Crackberry.
>
> "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."
>  ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
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Re: Completely off topic

[Don Ely]

There's a list?

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Steven M. Caesare wrote:

>  What list?
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* William J. Robbins [mailto:dangerw...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:10 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: Completely off topic
>
>
>
> That list can never exist. That would mean you were sane at some point.
>
>
> WJR
> - from my Crackberry.
>
> "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."
>  --
>
> *From: *"Steven M. Caesare" 
>
> *Date: *Thu, 9 Sep 2010 00:08:23 -0400
>
> *To: *NT System Admin Issues
>
> *ReplyTo: *"NT System Admin Issues"  >
>
> *Subject: *RE: Completely off topic
>
>
>
> Nor list to help keep you sane when the other non-existent list gets out of
> hand.
>
>
>
> No, really.
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:02 AM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: Completely off topic
>
>
>
> There is no Cabal either...
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Steven M. Caesare 
> wrote:
>
> Other list?
>
>
>
> We don’t talk about that other non-existent list.
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:03 PM
>
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
>
> *Subject:* OT: Completely off topic
>
>
>
> I’m holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some tips
> from some of the locals on this list.
>
>
>
> I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone would
> be kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be
> appreciated.
>
>
>
> Unless of course it is like Fight Club.
>
>
>
> James.
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
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> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
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>
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Re: google instant

[Ben Scott]

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Lists - Level 5  wrote:
> Not sure anyone mentioned this or not..

  I did.  I think it's fscking annoying.  I do not want the entire
screen freaking out every time I press a key. It also jacks up my page
position in the search, which I sometimes want to go back to.
Fortunately, it's easy to turn off.

  Google needs a "Luddite" option for people like me.  We could just
check that box and stay in 1998, without JavaScript or iGoogle or
wallpaper or gadgets or instant search or sudoku search or whatever
damn thing the marketing department dreams up next.  I just want to
search the web.  If I wanted that crap I'd use MSN Search.  I mean
Windows Live Search.  I mean Bing.

  "Back in my day, we only had one ring tone, and it sounded like...
the phone." (Tom Bodett)



-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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RE: Completely off topic

[Steven M. Caesare]

What list?

 

-sc

 

From: William J. Robbins [mailto:dangerw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:10 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Completely off topic

 

That list can never exist. That would mean you were sane at some point. 


WJR
- from my Crackberry.

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."



From: "Steven M. Caesare"  

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 00:08:23 -0400

To: NT System Admin Issues

ReplyTo: "NT System Admin Issues"


Subject: RE: Completely off topic

 

Nor list to help keep you sane when the other non-existent list gets out
of hand.

 

No, really.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:02 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Completely off topic

 

There is no Cabal either...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

Other list?

 

We don't talk about that other non-existent list.

 

-sc

 

From: James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:03 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues

Subject: OT: Completely off topic 

 

I'm holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some
tips from some of the locals on this list.

 

I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone
would be kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be
appreciated.

 

Unless of course it is like Fight Club.

 

James.

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

 

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~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven M. Caesare]

I assume my answering this would already be redundant?

No?

OK, it does this: [presses key combo]

See?

-sc

-Original Message-
From: William J. Robbins [mailto:dangerw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:09 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

Ooo, something new to try. What does that combo do?
--Original Message--
From: Steven M. Caesare
To: NT System Admin Issues
ReplyTo: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix
Sent: Sep 8, 2010 23:07

I agree.

The new ribbon interfaces in the Office Apps that don't have menus
(where you can discover keystrokes) excaerbates this.

That having been said, my favorite new Win7 shell keyboard shortcut is
Shift+Win+UpArrow.

-sc

-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:00 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Steven M. Caesare
 wrote:
> But tended to be somewhat less capable for power users. No right 
> button context menus, ugh.

  I'm told that if you hook a mouse with more than one button up to a
Mac, the right button will actually bring up a context menu for some
things.  Haven't tried it.

  I think context menus are a wonderful thing, greatly contributing to
ease-of-use, and I don't get why Apple is so dead set against them.
Prolly just Not Invented Here syndrome.

> And less shortcut key combos.

  I've notice that Microsoft seems determined to take away (or at least
make harder to find/use) shortcut keys.  Vista makes it very hard to
find the "show shortcut keys" option (whatever it's actually called),
and even when enabled, it doesn't seem to work consistently.
:-p

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
  ~

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WJR
 - from my Crackberry.

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."
~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
  ~

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Re: Completely off topic

[William J. Robbins]

That list can never exist. That would mean you were sane at some point. 
 
WJR
 - from my Crackberry.

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."

-Original Message-
From: "Steven M. Caesare" 
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 00:08:23 
To: NT System Admin Issues
Reply-To: "NT System Admin Issues" 
Subject: RE: Completely off topic

Nor list to help keep you sane when the other non-existent list gets out
of hand.

 

No, really.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:02 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Completely off topic

 

There is no Cabal either...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

Other list?

 

We don't talk about that other non-existent list.

 

-sc

 

From: James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:03 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues

Subject: OT: Completely off topic 

 

I'm holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some
tips from some of the locals on this list.

 

I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone
would be kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be
appreciated.

 

Unless of course it is like Fight Club.

 

James.

 

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[William J. Robbins]

Ooo, something new to try. What does that combo do?
--Original Message--
From: Steven M. Caesare
To: NT System Admin Issues
ReplyTo: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix
Sent: Sep 8, 2010 23:07

I agree.

The new ribbon interfaces in the Office Apps that don't have menus
(where you can discover keystrokes) excaerbates this.

That having been said, my favorite new Win7 shell keyboard shortcut is
Shift+Win+UpArrow.

-sc

-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:00 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Steven M. Caesare
 wrote:
> But tended to be somewhat less capable for power users. No right 
> button context menus, ugh.

  I'm told that if you hook a mouse with more than one button up to a
Mac, the right button will actually bring up a context menu for some
things.  Haven't tried it.

  I think context menus are a wonderful thing, greatly contributing to
ease-of-use, and I don't get why Apple is so dead set against them.
Prolly just Not Invented Here syndrome.

> And less shortcut key combos.

  I've notice that Microsoft seems determined to take away (or at least
make harder to find/use) shortcut keys.  Vista makes it very hard to
find the "show shortcut keys" option (whatever it's actually called),
and even when enabled, it doesn't seem to work consistently.
:-p

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
  ~

---
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WJR
 - from my Crackberry.

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."
~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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RE: Completely off topic

[Steven M. Caesare]

Nor list to help keep you sane when the other non-existent list gets out
of hand.

 

No, really.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:02 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Completely off topic

 

There is no Cabal either...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

Other list?

 

We don't talk about that other non-existent list.

 

-sc

 

From: James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:03 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues

Subject: OT: Completely off topic 

 

I'm holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some
tips from some of the locals on this list.

 

I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone
would be kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be
appreciated.

 

Unless of course it is like Fight Club.

 

James.

 

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven M. Caesare]

I agree.

The new ribbon interfaces in the Office Apps that don't have menus
(where you can discover keystrokes) excaerbates this.

That having been said, my favorite new Win7 shell keyboard shortcut is
Shift+Win+UpArrow.

-sc

-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:00 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Steven M. Caesare
 wrote:
> But tended to be somewhat less capable for power users. No right 
> button context menus, ugh.

  I'm told that if you hook a mouse with more than one button up to a
Mac, the right button will actually bring up a context menu for some
things.  Haven't tried it.

  I think context menus are a wonderful thing, greatly contributing to
ease-of-use, and I don't get why Apple is so dead set against them.
Prolly just Not Invented Here syndrome.

> And less shortcut key combos.

  I've notice that Microsoft seems determined to take away (or at least
make harder to find/use) shortcut keys.  Vista makes it very hard to
find the "show shortcut keys" option (whatever it's actually called),
and even when enabled, it doesn't seem to work consistently.
:-p

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
  ~

---
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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Brian Desmond]

My Mac has a Dell mouse attached to it (versus the like 99 dollar mouse the 
Apple store had) and yes there is a right click menu of sorts sometimes. I 
think if you hold down like Option or something and "left" click with a Mac 
mouse you get the same effect.

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c   - 312.731.3132


-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:00 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
> But tended to be somewhat less capable for power users. No right 
> button context menus, ugh.

  I'm told that if you hook a mouse with more than one button up to a Mac, the 
right button will actually bring up a context menu for some things.  Haven't 
tried it.

  I think context menus are a wonderful thing, greatly contributing to 
ease-of-use, and I don't get why Apple is so dead set against them.
Prolly just Not Invented Here syndrome.

> And less shortcut key combos.

  I've notice that Microsoft seems determined to take away (or at least make 
harder to find/use) shortcut keys.  Vista makes it very hard to find the "show 
shortcut keys" option (whatever it's actually called), and even when enabled, 
it doesn't seem to work consistently.
:-p

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
  ~

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Re: Completely off topic

[Don Ely]

There is no Cabal either...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Steven M. Caesare wrote:

>  Other list?
>
>
>
> We don’t talk about that other non-existent list.
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:03 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* OT: Completely off topic
>
>
>
> I’m holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some tips
> from some of the locals on this list.
>
>
>
> I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone would
> be kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be
> appreciated.
>
>
>
> Unless of course it is like Fight Club.
>
>
>
> James.
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
>  ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Ben Scott]

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
> But tended to be somewhat less capable for power users. No right button
> context menus, ugh.

  I'm told that if you hook a mouse with more than one button up to a
Mac, the right button will actually bring up a context menu for some
things.  Haven't tried it.

  I think context menus are a wonderful thing, greatly contributing to
ease-of-use, and I don't get why Apple is so dead set against them.
Prolly just Not Invented Here syndrome.

> And less shortcut key combos.

  I've notice that Microsoft seems determined to take away (or at
least make harder to find/use) shortcut keys.  Vista makes it very
hard to find the "show shortcut keys" option (whatever it's actually
called), and even when enabled, it doesn't seem to work consistently.
:-p

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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RE: OT: Completely off topic

[Brian Desmond]

Add Hoover Dam to your Vegas list.

Do you like good (like really good) food? That's probably my favorite thing to 
do (and spend money on) in both of these places. If you want some food 
recommendations in LA let me know. I'd also look up when the Food Trucks are 
all out in Venice (it's a couple days a month I think) as they're a unique 
experience.

In LA, I'd add The Getty, Venice, Santa Monica, possibly drive down to San 
Diego (spend a night or two there it's really nice and totally different - only 
like 90 mins away). The USS Midway is fun in San Diego, you can actually take 
light rail to Tijuana also. Drive through like La Jolla and such along the 
coast. In general driving along the coast (PCH) is generally very pretty. 
Topanga Canyon north of LA is a fun drive. The San Diego Zoo is one of the top 
zoos out there (though I haven't yet been). Legoland and Disneyland are nearby 
to both if you're in to either of those things. Hollywood walk of fame of 
course. Personally I think you have too much time in both of these places. Are 
you open to customizing a bit?



Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c - 312.731.3132


From: James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:45 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: OT: Completely off topic

Haha.. ok on list it is.

I'll be on the West Coast.  Mainly after things to do in LA and Vegas.  Have 
4-6 days in LA and 5 in Vegas so not a lot of time.  Will have a car though.  
After that I'm on a boat for 7 days down to Mexico and back.

So far for LA:-


*Tar Pits

*Long Beach

*Universal Studios

*Eat something with cheese on it (I've heard it's really hard to find 
in the U.S. :))

Vegas:-


*Grand Canyon (of course)

*cirque du soleil

*Obvious stuff like walking the strip and checking out each of the big 
casinos

*Crazy as it sounds I'm more interested in the shows etc rather than 
the gambling.

I'll be sure to bring some koala toys (after I remove the made in china label). 
 I've heard I'll have to talk slow so that you Yanks can understand me.

As for the "crikey!" comment I actually don't live that far from Australia Zoo 
which was built by Steve Irwin (which is one of the few people that ever uses 
that word these days)

Wouldn't mind jumping around like a fool in front of a Microsoft Kinect if I 
can find one.

James.



From: Richard Stovall [mailto:rich...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 11:05 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: OT: Completely off topic

Crikey, mate!  If you want "some tips from some of the locals on this list", 
just ask.  We're already here!

And since you asked, here are a few:

1) North America is really, really large.  (Maybe even larger than Australia!)  
The farther north you go, the heavier clothing you'll need.
2) Always buy Americans a beer first.  After that they'll fall all over 
themselves to return the kindness for the rest of the night.  And to hear your 
funny accent.  Seriously.  You'll come out way ahead on this one, and save a 
tonne of money.
3) 2) Does not work on people from Canada or Mexico.
4) Tell them your great grandfather was a hardened, unrepentant criminal from 
England.  They expect to hear it anyway, even if he was a priest, or an 
Aborigine, or a Prime Minister.
5) Bring your a Koala with you as an ice breaker.  Everyone has one, right?

If I've missed anything, just ask.

Cheers, G'day, and all that stuff.

RS

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:03 PM, James Hill 
mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au>> wrote:
I'm holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some tips from 
some of the locals on this list.

I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone would be 
kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be appreciated.

Unless of course it is like Fight Club.

James.


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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RE: Completely off topic

[Steven M. Caesare]

Other list?

 

We don't talk about that other non-existent list.

 

-sc

 

From: James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:03 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: OT: Completely off topic

 

I'm holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some
tips from some of the locals on this list.

 

I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone
would be kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be
appreciated.

 

Unless of course it is like Fight Club.

 

James.

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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Re: Completely off topic

[Raper, Jonathan - Eagle]

You definitely want to see the Grand Canyon, but be prepared for a LONG 
drive from LV, depending on where you go to see it. We took a tour bus (we 
didn't have a car on that trip) and it literally took us all day to get there 
and back, crossing over Hoover Dam in the process - but we didn't get to stop 
except for long enough to snap a picture on the hill side. Speaking of which 
get a tour of Hoover Dam if you can - it really is a modern marvel. You may not 
be able to get both Hoover Dam and Grand Canyon in the same day without 
spending the night, but there are cabins that you can rent in Grand Canyon 
National Park.

As for the shows, I would definitely try to see O! There are nights that most 
shows are dark, so plan any shows you want to see accordingly.

Also, if you enjoy thrill rides, there are a number of coasters on the strip 
and three rides at the top of the Stratosphere that are MUST DOs, IMO.

Near LA is Disneyland, but if you can ever make it to Florida, Disney World 
simply blows Disneyland out of the water. Knott's Berry Farm is also not far 
from Disneyland, IIRC.

Do I sound like a tourist yet?

Have a great trip, and tell us all about it!

Jonathan L. Raper, MCSE

Thumb-typed from my HTC Incredible (and yes, it really is) Droid. Please excuse 
brevity & any misspellings.

- Reply message -
From: "James Hill" 
Date: Wed, Sep 8, 2010 9:46 pm
Subject: OT: Completely off topic
To: "NT System Admin Issues" 

Haha.. ok on list it is.

I’ll be on the West Coast.  Mainly after things to do in LA and Vegas.  Have 
4-6 days in LA and 5 in Vegas so not a lot of time.  Will have a car though.  
After that I’m on a boat for 7 days down to Mexico and back.

So far for LA:-


· Tar Pits

· Long Beach

· Universal Studios

· Eat something with cheese on it (I’ve heard it’s really hard to find 
in the U.S. :))

Vegas:-


· Grand Canyon (of course)

· cirque du soleil

· Obvious stuff like walking the strip and checking out each of the big 
casinos

· Crazy as it sounds I’m more interested in the shows etc rather than 
the gambling.

I’ll be sure to bring some koala toys (after I remove the made in china label). 
 I’ve heard I’ll have to talk slow so that you Yanks can understand me.

As for the “crikey!” comment I actually don’t live that far from Australia Zoo 
which was built by Steve Irwin (which is one of the few people that ever uses 
that word these days)

Wouldn’t mind jumping around like a fool in front of a Microsoft Kinect if I 
can find one.

James.



From: Richard Stovall [mailto:rich...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 11:05 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: OT: Completely off topic

Crikey, mate!  If you want "some tips from some of the locals on this list", 
just ask.  We're already here!

And since you asked, here are a few:

1) North America is really, really large.  (Maybe even larger than Australia!)  
The farther north you go, the heavier clothing you'll need.
2) Always buy Americans a beer first.  After that they'll fall all over 
themselves to return the kindness for the rest of the night.  And to hear your 
funny accent.  Seriously.  You'll come out way ahead on this one, and save a 
tonne of money.
3) 2) Does not work on people from Canada or Mexico.
4) Tell them your great grandfather was a hardened, unrepentant criminal from 
England.  They expect to hear it anyway, even if he was a priest, or an 
Aborigine, or a Prime Minister.
5) Bring your a Koala with you as an ice breaker.  Everyone has one, right?

If I've missed anything, just ask.

Cheers, G'day, and all that stuff.

RS

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:03 PM, James Hill 
mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au>> wrote:
I’m holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some tips from 
some of the locals on this list.

I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone would be 
kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be appreciated.

Unless of course it is like Fight Club.

James.


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven M. Caesare]

But tended to be somewhat less capable for power users. No right button
context menus, ugh. And less shortcut key combos.

Having a real term window is nice tho.

-sc

-Original Message-
From: James Hill [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:00 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Interestingly most Mac users don't struggle too much with Windows.  It's
a whole other story for the opposite though.  The fact Windows is
everywhere usually assists someone who primarily uses Mac because at
some stage they have ended up in front of a Windows machine.

Personally I quite like the Mac interface.  It is easy to use.  Windows
7 has caught up to that in many ways but there is no doubt that in the
past the Mac interface was easier (and prettier).

-Original Message-
From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 9:50 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

In our environment, there are several _subjective_ benefits:

Software Costs
Ease of use (Especially for existing Mac users.) Ease of deployment Less
Malware (Please note, I did not say a Mac was more secure!) Simple
Management (For me, anyways.)

But they are expensive. I just got an email from my Apple rep offering
us very nice looking 21.5" iMacs in quantities of 25 or more for $899
(These are last generation, and are offered to schools only, I think)...
but we have been buying refurbished Dells for $350 with a 3 year
warrantee. It's likely we'll go for the Dells, as our new budget can't
handle the Apple tax.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: James Hill
[mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Wed, 08 Sep 2010
16:14:38 -0700
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix


> I guess it's the result of Windows being the majority.  Why go with 
> the minority if it poses extra challenges?  There has to be 
> significant benefits to do it.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 5:01 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: James Hill
> [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010
> 19:38:07 -0700
> Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix
> 
> > I find it hard to see the benefit of using Mac's in a corporate 
> > environment these days.  Once upon a time they were the system to 
> > have in certain environments (video editing etc).  but that really 
> > isn't the
> case anymore.
> > When I do see them in corporate environments they are almost always 
> > using RDP or Virtual Box etc to connect to a Windows environment.
> > Why add that complexity?
> 
> If the goal is to reduce complexity, then defiantly stay with one
platform.
> My argument has never been that adding Macs to your PC environment 
> will make it less complex.
> 
> But what I guess is really bothering me here is the "But you can't do 
> that with a Mac" mentality. Apple has made every effort to make their 
> platform work for you. If it can't be done on a Mac, it's because what

> you want to do hasn't been made available for the Mac. Apple cannot 
> implement .net, even if they wanted to use Mono. So your .net 
> applications are never going to be useful on a Mac. Have a web 
> application that requires IE because it requires ActiveX? Again, this 
> isn't Apple's problem. Using Microsoft Word or Excel with a VBScript?
> Sorry, no dice on a Mac. These are a few of the vendor locking tactics

> which makes life (yours and mine) a living hell to support on a Mac.
> 
> I know that it's impractical to have a business which has fully 
> developed tools and applications in a platform specific environment to

> move to something more cross-platform. And I'm not asking for the
world to change.
> Just don't blame the Mac for being a Mac.
> 
> 
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
>   ~
> 
> ---
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> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
>   ~
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> 
> 

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  ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven M. Caesare]

The laws in that country were... let's say... "more flexible".

 

-sc

 

From: William J. Robbins [mailto:dangerw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 7:07 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

 

Calling it a "bar" still doesn't make it legal -sc. 


WJR
- from my Crackberry.

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."



From: "Steven M. Caesare"  

Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 18:39:20 -0400

To: NT System Admin Issues

ReplyTo: "NT System Admin Issues"


Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Which reminds me of something I saw at a bar once...

 

-sc

 

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:03 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Keep saving, you'll get to 40 quarters eventually.  

 

Shook

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:01 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

I leave it on the nightstand where I'll find it later.

 

-sc

 

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And never accept money from yourself.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

I'm hard to get with myself.

 

-sc

 

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:32 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And remember to be coy with yourself.  And bring home flowers.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

C'mon... everybody does it.

 

I just buy myself a nice dinner first.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

 

You date yourself?!?!?  Interesting place to come out...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

+1

 

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

 

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by
either the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you
can(could) run UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel.
(And OS/2 as well, but I'm dating myself).

 

-sc

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security
model. In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user"
versus "administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

 

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

 

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

 

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix
permissions. And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.


Cheers

Ken

 

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security
model of *nix to NT.

 

Bill Mayo

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ 


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or send 

RE: OT: Completely off topic

[James Hill]

Haha.. ok on list it is.

I'll be on the West Coast.  Mainly after things to do in LA and Vegas.  Have 
4-6 days in LA and 5 in Vegas so not a lot of time.  Will have a car though.  
After that I'm on a boat for 7 days down to Mexico and back.

So far for LA:-


* Tar Pits

* Long Beach

* Universal Studios

* Eat something with cheese on it (I've heard it's really hard to find 
in the U.S. :))

Vegas:-


* Grand Canyon (of course)

* cirque du soleil

* Obvious stuff like walking the strip and checking out each of the big 
casinos

* Crazy as it sounds I'm more interested in the shows etc rather than 
the gambling.

I'll be sure to bring some koala toys (after I remove the made in china label). 
 I've heard I'll have to talk slow so that you Yanks can understand me.

As for the "crikey!" comment I actually don't live that far from Australia Zoo 
which was built by Steve Irwin (which is one of the few people that ever uses 
that word these days)

Wouldn't mind jumping around like a fool in front of a Microsoft Kinect if I 
can find one.

James.



From: Richard Stovall [mailto:rich...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 11:05 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: OT: Completely off topic

Crikey, mate!  If you want "some tips from some of the locals on this list", 
just ask.  We're already here!

And since you asked, here are a few:

1) North America is really, really large.  (Maybe even larger than Australia!)  
The farther north you go, the heavier clothing you'll need.
2) Always buy Americans a beer first.  After that they'll fall all over 
themselves to return the kindness for the rest of the night.  And to hear your 
funny accent.  Seriously.  You'll come out way ahead on this one, and save a 
tonne of money.
3) 2) Does not work on people from Canada or Mexico.
4) Tell them your great grandfather was a hardened, unrepentant criminal from 
England.  They expect to hear it anyway, even if he was a priest, or an 
Aborigine, or a Prime Minister.
5) Bring your a Koala with you as an ice breaker.  Everyone has one, right?

If I've missed anything, just ask.

Cheers, G'day, and all that stuff.

RS

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:03 PM, James Hill 
mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au>> wrote:
I'm holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some tips from 
some of the locals on this list.

I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone would be 
kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be appreciated.

Unless of course it is like Fight Club.

James.


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to 
listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin


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~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Ken Schaefer]

There are many things that are useful, but usefulness/convenience pretty much 
always compromises security.

Cheers
Ken

-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 4:23 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Andrew S. Baker  wrote:
>>> Or, without editing the plist you can walk up to any Macs with 
>>> password protected screensaver on, enter the admin pswd & boom 
>>> there's the user's desktop at your disposal.
>>
>>  I wish Windows had that option.
>
> Windows 7 has the best of both worlds, IMO.

  The reason I want that is that in some offices people lock the session with 
something important open and then forget and leave, then someone else who is 
trusted wants to unlock it but cannot (without blowing away their logon 
session).  This is often *the* reason why small offices don't want 
auto-screen-locking (or have to resort to writing down passwords).

   Even non-repudiation is not an excuse; I would fully expect this to show up 
in the logs, just just any number of other potentially compromising events show 
up now.

  I'm not saying it should be enabled by default, but the option would be 
useful in many small office environments.  You or Ken don't have to use it.

-- Ben


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Ken Schaefer]

What? Is there some context to that statement?

Cheers
Ken

From: Ziots, Edward [mailto:ezi...@lifespan.org]
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 2:09 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix


I am reading the IIS 7 Implementation and Administration by John Paul Mueller 
and he is saying that you need to install SQL on your IIS instances to be able 
to use the advanced features.
EZ

Edward E. Ziots



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~   ~

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Re: OT: Completely off topic

[Jon Harris]

Hey now my great granddad was a preacher of some kind.  Left GB due to some
unpleasentness to do with a member of the family plotting to kill someone
wearing a crown but hey didn't a lot of Scotts feel that way?

Jon

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Richard Stovall  wrote:

> Crikey, mate!  If you want "some tips from some of the locals on this
> list", just ask.  We're already here!
>
> And since you asked, here are a few:
>
> 1) North America is really, really large.  (Maybe even larger than
> Australia!)  The farther north you go, the heavier clothing you'll need.
> 2) Always buy Americans a beer first.  After that they'll fall all over
> themselves to return the kindness for the rest of the night.  And to hear
> your funny accent.  Seriously.  You'll come out way ahead on this one, and
> save a tonne of money.
> 3) 2) Does not work on people from Canada or Mexico.
> 4) Tell them your great grandfather was a hardened, unrepentant criminal
> from England.  They expect to hear it anyway, even if he was a priest, or an
> Aborigine, or a Prime Minister.
> 5) Bring your a Koala with you as an ice breaker.  Everyone has one, right?
>
> If I've missed anything, just ask.
>
> Cheers, G'day, and all that stuff.
>
> RS
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:03 PM, James Hill 
> wrote:
>
>>  I’m holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some
>> tips from some of the locals on this list.
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone
>> would be kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Unless of course it is like Fight Club.
>>
>>
>>
>> James.
>>
>>
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>>
>> ---
>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
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> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

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Re: OT: Completely off topic

[Richard Stovall]

Crikey, mate!  If you want "some tips from some of the locals on this list",
just ask.  We're already here!

And since you asked, here are a few:

1) North America is really, really large.  (Maybe even larger than
Australia!)  The farther north you go, the heavier clothing you'll need.
2) Always buy Americans a beer first.  After that they'll fall all over
themselves to return the kindness for the rest of the night.  And to hear
your funny accent.  Seriously.  You'll come out way ahead on this one, and
save a tonne of money.
3) 2) Does not work on people from Canada or Mexico.
4) Tell them your great grandfather was a hardened, unrepentant criminal
from England.  They expect to hear it anyway, even if he was a priest, or an
Aborigine, or a Prime Minister.
5) Bring your a Koala with you as an ice breaker.  Everyone has one, right?

If I've missed anything, just ask.

Cheers, G'day, and all that stuff.

RS

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:03 PM, James Hill wrote:

> I’m holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some tips
> from some of the locals on this list.
>
>
>
> I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone would
> be kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be
> appreciated.
>
>
>
> Unless of course it is like Fight Club.
>
>
>
> James.
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
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Re: OT: Completely off topic

[Jon Harris]

You might give us an idea as to where you will be.  The US is not small.

Jon

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:03 PM, James Hill wrote:

>  I’m holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some
> tips from some of the locals on this list.
>
>
>
> I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone would
> be kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be
> appreciated.
>
>
>
> Unless of course it is like Fight Club.
>
>
>
> James.
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

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OT: Completely off topic

[James Hill]

I'm holidaying in North America next month and would like to get some tips from 
some of the locals on this list.

I believe there is a completely off topic list somewhere.  If someone would be 
kind enough to point me to it (off list of course) it would be appreciated.

Unless of course it is like Fight Club.

James.


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[James Hill]

Interestingly most Mac users don't struggle too much with Windows.  It's a 
whole other story for the opposite though.  The fact Windows is everywhere 
usually assists someone who primarily uses Mac because at some stage they have 
ended up in front of a Windows machine.

Personally I quite like the Mac interface.  It is easy to use.  Windows 7 has 
caught up to that in many ways but there is no doubt that in the past the Mac 
interface was easier (and prettier).

-Original Message-
From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org] 
Sent: Thursday, 9 September 2010 9:50 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

In our environment, there are several _subjective_ benefits:

Software Costs
Ease of use (Especially for existing Mac users.) Ease of deployment Less 
Malware (Please note, I did not say a Mac was more secure!) Simple Management 
(For me, anyways.)

But they are expensive. I just got an email from my Apple rep offering us very 
nice looking 21.5" iMacs in quantities of 25 or more for $899 (These are last 
generation, and are offered to schools only, I think)... but we have been 
buying refurbished Dells for $350 with a 3 year warrantee. It's likely we'll go 
for the Dells, as our new budget can't handle the Apple tax.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: James Hill
[mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Wed, 08 Sep 2010
16:14:38 -0700
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix


> I guess it's the result of Windows being the majority.  Why go with 
> the minority if it poses extra challenges?  There has to be 
> significant benefits to do it.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 5:01 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: James Hill
> [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010
> 19:38:07 -0700
> Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix
> 
> > I find it hard to see the benefit of using Mac's in a corporate 
> > environment these days.  Once upon a time they were the system to 
> > have in certain environments (video editing etc).  but that really 
> > isn't the
> case anymore.
> > When I do see them in corporate environments they are almost always 
> > using RDP or Virtual Box etc to connect to a Windows environment.  
> > Why add that complexity?
> 
> If the goal is to reduce complexity, then defiantly stay with one platform.
> My argument has never been that adding Macs to your PC environment 
> will make it less complex.
> 
> But what I guess is really bothering me here is the "But you can't do 
> that with a Mac" mentality. Apple has made every effort to make their 
> platform work for you. If it can't be done on a Mac, it's because what 
> you want to do hasn't been made available for the Mac. Apple cannot 
> implement .net, even if they wanted to use Mono. So your .net 
> applications are never going to be useful on a Mac. Have a web 
> application that requires IE because it requires ActiveX? Again, this 
> isn't Apple's problem. Using Microsoft Word or Excel with a VBScript? 
> Sorry, no dice on a Mac. These are a few of the vendor locking tactics 
> which makes life (yours and mine) a living hell to support on a Mac.
> 
> I know that it's impractical to have a business which has fully 
> developed tools and applications in a platform specific environment to 
> move to something more cross-platform. And I'm not asking for the world to 
> change.
> Just don't blame the Mac for being a Mac.
> 
> 
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
>   ~
> 
> ---
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Re: Non-Repudiation (was: Mac and Windows mix)

[Jon Harris]

How many have their Microsoft client OS to cycle the Security log at maybe 7
days or even less?  Just because it gets logged does not mean something done
will get caught within the time period that the security log will actually
still have it.  Depending on the domain I seem to remember that there is a
GPO setting that even is the security log is full and not cycling you could
still log in.

Jon

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Raper, Jonathan - Eagle  wrote:

>  Agreed. While off the cuff it sounds like a great idea, I also see WAY
> too much opportunity for abuse. Many of us already don’t have time to audit
> logs the way we should as it is, and I don’t see that getting any better any
> time soon. Just because it is auditable, does not mean that anyone is
> protected, and besides, audits are for catching people after they’ve done
> something they weren’t supposed to do. I would surmise that it is a rare
> occasion indeed for any of us to have caught someone in the act using audit
> logs, unless there was something suspect to begin with…
>
>
>
> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
> Technology Coordinator
> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA*
> *jra...@eaglemds.com*
> *www.eaglemds.com
>  --
>
> *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 5:15 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: Non-Repudiation (was: Mac and Windows mix)
>
>
>
> Nope, I really wouldn't even want this as an option.
>
>
>
> I hear what you're saying, but that feature would be way too easy to abuse.
>
>
> *ASB *(My XeeSM Profile) 
> *Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...*
> * *
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Ben Scott  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Andrew S. Baker  wrote:
> >>> Or, without editing the plist you can walk up to any Macs with password
> >>> protected screensaver on, enter the admin pswd & boom there's the
> user's
> >>> desktop at your disposal.
> >>
> >>  I wish Windows had that option.
> >
> > Windows 7 has the best of both worlds, IMO.
>
>  The reason I want that is that in some offices people lock the
> session with something important open and then forget and leave, then
> someone else who is trusted wants to unlock it but cannot (without
> blowing away their logon session).  This is often *the* reason why
> small offices don't want auto-screen-locking (or have to resort to
> writing down passwords).
>
>   Even non-repudiation is not an excuse; I would fully expect this to
> show up in the logs, just just any number of other potentially
> compromising events show up now.
>
>  I'm not saying it should be enabled by default, but the option would
> be useful in many small office environments.  You or Ken don't have to
> use it.
>
> -- Ben
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
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> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
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>
> --
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> this material from your computer. Do not deliver, distribute or copy this
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> the information that it contains.
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Matthew W. Ross]

In our environment, there are several _subjective_ benefits:

Software Costs
Ease of use (Especially for existing Mac users.)
Ease of deployment
Less Malware (Please note, I did not say a Mac was more secure!)
Simple Management (For me, anyways.)

But they are expensive. I just got an email from my Apple rep offering us very 
nice looking 21.5" iMacs in quantities of 25 or more for $899 (These are last 
generation, and are offered to schools only, I think)... but we have been 
buying refurbished Dells for $350 with a 3 year warrantee. It's likely we'll go 
for the Dells, as our new budget can't handle the Apple tax.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: James Hill
[mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Wed, 08 Sep 2010
16:14:38 -0700
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix


> I guess it's the result of Windows being the majority.  Why go with the
> minority if it poses extra challenges?  There has to be significant benefits
> to do it.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 5:01 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: James Hill
> [mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010
> 19:38:07 -0700
> Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix
> 
> > I find it hard to see the benefit of using Mac's in a corporate 
> > environment these days.  Once upon a time they were the system to have 
> > in certain environments (video editing etc).  but that really isn't the
> case anymore.
> > When I do see them in corporate environments they are almost always 
> > using RDP or Virtual Box etc to connect to a Windows environment.  Why 
> > add that complexity?
> 
> If the goal is to reduce complexity, then defiantly stay with one platform.
> My argument has never been that adding Macs to your PC environment will make
> it less complex. 
> 
> But what I guess is really bothering me here is the "But you can't do that
> with a Mac" mentality. Apple has made every effort to make their platform
> work for you. If it can't be done on a Mac, it's because what you want to do
> hasn't been made available for the Mac. Apple cannot implement .net, even if
> they wanted to use Mono. So your .net applications are never going to be
> useful on a Mac. Have a web application that requires IE because it requires
> ActiveX? Again, this isn't Apple's problem. Using Microsoft Word or Excel
> with a VBScript? Sorry, no dice on a Mac. These are a few of the vendor
> locking tactics which makes life (yours and mine) a living hell to support
> on a Mac.
> 
> I know that it's impractical to have a business which has fully developed
> tools and applications in a platform specific environment to move to
> something more cross-platform. And I'm not asking for the world to change.
> Just don't blame the Mac for being a Mac.
> 
> 
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
>   ~
> 
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
> 
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
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> 
> 

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Re: Google email for corporate use

[Jon Harris]

I seem to remember that a couple of years ago Google leaked information from
their mail service to their search service and had confidential email leaked
on to the web.  Their SLA at the time as basically "oh sorry my bad".  Last
government position I was forced to do an inquiry about using Google Apps
and GMail service to "avoid the cost of licensing" Microsoft products.
State lawyers came down hard and fast killing that but fast.  The "avoid
cost of licensing" was thrown back at managements face a long with some
comments about removal from position is this went any further.  Basically
the auditors said there is no cost to the agency in excess of what Google
would have charged. (Not true for private companies but very true for NFP or
government/universities.)  Goggles track record for keeping confidential
email off the web and not search able was extremely poor, and enforcing the
SLA's was meaningless unless they were within the State.  The normal time
for the attorneys to respond to email and written inquires was 30 days they
came back next day with their response and followed it up with phone calls
from even higher ups making sure that the comments were taken to heart and
were understood fully.  My boss at the time came out of one of those
meetings with red ears and told me to not ever mention Google in
the presence of his boss (who had wanted the change).

Jon

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Ziots, Edward  wrote:

>  Even before that I would be working on a Security SLA for the contract
> with the provider accordingly. And be prepared to audit that provider a lot
> to ensure they are sticking to the SLA.
>
>
>
> Z
>
>
>
> Edward E. Ziots
>
> CISSP, Network +, Security +
>
> Network Engineer
>
> Lifespan Organization
>
> Email:ezi...@lifespan.org 
>
> Cell:401-639-3505
>
>
>
> *From:* Paul Hutchings [mailto:paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:18 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Google email for corporate use
>
>
>
> The first thing I’d do before even looking at the technical stuff is read
> their terms of service.
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* 08 September 2010 16:09
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Google email for corporate use
>
>
>
> Anyone here using Google for their corporate email? I’ve got a Google rep
> trying to sell me on using their service instead of bringing email in-house.
> I don’t see the benefit, myself. Sure they have 99.999% uptime, but other
> than that, what’s the benefit? She says they can integrate with Active
> Directory, but I don’t necessarily want Google reaching out and touching my
> domain controllers….scares the crap outta me. J I would NOT oppose using
> Postini to filter/scan my email, but I don’t necessarily want them handling
> my email for me.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
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>  --
>
> *MIRA Ltd*
>
>
>
> Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England
>
> Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
>
> VAT Registration  GB 114 5409 96
>
>
>
> The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of
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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Brian Desmond]

It's a cost of doing business when you're looking at 700 locations and upwards 
of 90K machine assets not counting other inventoried hardware. You depend on 
people in the field to deal with it largely - the assets are also purchased out 
of their discretionary budgets typically. 

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c - 312.731.3132



-Original Message-
From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

How could you trust a non-physical inventory? Was there an allowed loss rate? 
Anything disappearing from our district here is frowned upon greatly. We are 
constantly warned of our State Auditor's disapproval, and mishandling of 
"state-funded" equipment.

3rd party support tools for Open Directory is nearly non-existent.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Brian Desmond
[mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010
20:00:32 -0700
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix


> There was something like 15,000 - 30,000 Macs out there when I worked 
> at this place plus another 60 to 90 thousand PCs so difference of scale there.
> Taking a physical inventory was a seriously expensive endeavor.
> 
> I really don't know enough about Open Directory to comment on the 
> pros/cons of its capabilities versus those inherent in AD. One benefit 
> of AD and Windows though is that you've got a substantial ecosystem of 
> third party developers and there are A LOT of choices for management 
> add-ons on top of AD if you want the added functionality. When I've 
> had to evaluate this for the Mac platform those third parties have been few 
> and far between.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
> 
> c - 312.731.3132
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 4:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix
> 
> That does make it difficult. Then again, so would any dual-booting 
> Linux user on a PC. If you don't want them to do it, don't allow them 
> too. (We make them choose one or the other.)
> 
> Users with their own personal VMs in VMWare Player or VirtualBox also 
> make management frustrating.
> 
> How does Microsoft's Active Directory manage users/computers better 
> than Apple's Open Directory?
> 
> Our district requires a count of computers at least once a year. We do 
> physical counts, not some network scan to see what's out there. That, 
> happily, resolves any "Dual personality" problem. (Not to mention the 
> teachers squirm a little when I ask there the Projector that was 
> assigned to them is.)
> 
> Oh, and I do admit that we're not a large school. 1000 computers 
> across 6 locations isn't all that much compared to some. But it's a 
> lot for 3 people, and I'm the only Mac/Linux/Network guy.
> 
> Toot!
> 
> 
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Brian Desmond
> [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010
> 15:37:13 -0700
> Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix
> 
> 
> > My experience having worked for one of the largest school districts 
> > in the US is that the solution you outlined doesn't really scale. 
> > I've seen it work well for relatively small environments but once 
> > you introduce a large number of Mac machines, things get difficult. 
> > When the solution works, you're still looking at some significant 
> > management overhead and duplication of infrastructure.
> > 
> > The key issue I've seen with Macs recently is their newfound bipolar 
> > disorder. One day they're a Mac, the next day they're a PC. Good 
> > luck accounting for that in your asset database.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Brian Desmond
> > br...@briandesmond.com
> > 
> > c - 312.731.3132
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 11:54 AM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix
> > 
> > Macs are not the burden you make them sound to be.
> > 
> > Integrating a Mac into a windows network is never going to be 
> > painless; the two systems are inherently different. If what you want 
> > is a Windows experience from your Mac, install Windows.
> > 
> > Now not everybody likes MacOS X, but the same can be said for Windows.
> > Insert the problem of subjective preference here.
> > 
> > Personally, I love working on my iMac, and managing the other Macs 
> > in our district is very easy if you use the provided Apple tools: 
> > Mac OS X server, Open Directory, and Apple Remote Desktop.
> > 
> > Then again, I hate how a Mac _can_ cost 2x as much as a comparable PC. 
> > I do like that software upgrades are cheaper for

RE: Mac and Windows mix

[James Hill]

I guess it's the result of Windows being the majority.  Why go with the 
minority if it poses extra challenges?  There has to be significant benefits to 
do it.

-Original Message-
From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 5:01 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

- Original Message -
From: James Hill
[mailto:james.h...@superamart.com.au]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010
19:38:07 -0700
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

> I find it hard to see the benefit of using Mac's in a corporate 
> environment these days.  Once upon a time they were the system to have 
> in certain environments (video editing etc).  but that really isn't the case 
> anymore.
> When I do see them in corporate environments they are almost always 
> using RDP or Virtual Box etc to connect to a Windows environment.  Why 
> add that complexity?

If the goal is to reduce complexity, then defiantly stay with one platform. My 
argument has never been that adding Macs to your PC environment will make it 
less complex. 

But what I guess is really bothering me here is the "But you can't do that with 
a Mac" mentality. Apple has made every effort to make their platform work for 
you. If it can't be done on a Mac, it's because what you want to do hasn't been 
made available for the Mac. Apple cannot implement .net, even if they wanted to 
use Mono. So your .net applications are never going to be useful on a Mac. Have 
a web application that requires IE because it requires ActiveX? Again, this 
isn't Apple's problem. Using Microsoft Word or Excel with a VBScript? Sorry, no 
dice on a Mac. These are a few of the vendor locking tactics which makes life 
(yours and mine) a living hell to support on a Mac.

I know that it's impractical to have a business which has fully developed tools 
and applications in a platform specific environment to move to something more 
cross-platform. And I'm not asking for the world to change. Just don't blame 
the Mac for being a Mac.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
  ~

---
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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[William J. Robbins]

Calling it a "bar" still doesn't make it legal -sc. 
 
WJR
 - from my Crackberry.

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."

-Original Message-
From: "Steven M. Caesare" 
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 18:39:20 
To: NT System Admin Issues
Reply-To: "NT System Admin Issues" 
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Which reminds me of something I saw at a bar once...

 

-sc

 

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:03 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Keep saving, you'll get to 40 quarters eventually.  

 

Shook

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:01 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

I leave it on the nightstand where I'll find it later.

 

-sc

 

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And never accept money from yourself.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

I'm hard to get with myself.

 

-sc

 

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:32 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And remember to be coy with yourself.  And bring home flowers.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

C'mon... everybody does it.

 

I just buy myself a nice dinner first.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

 

You date yourself?!?!?  Interesting place to come out...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

+1

 

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

 

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by
either the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you
can(could) run UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel.
(And OS/2 as well, but I'm dating myself).

 

-sc

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security
model. In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user"
versus "administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

 

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

 

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

 

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix
permissions. And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.


Cheers

Ken

 

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security
model of *nix to NT.

 

Bill Mayo

 

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven M. Caesare]

That's before payment.

 

-sc

 

From: John Cook [mailto:john.c...@pfsf.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:05 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Do you ever feel short changed?

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:01 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

I leave it on the nightstand where I'll find it later.

 

-sc

 

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And never accept money from yourself.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

I'm hard to get with myself.

 

-sc

 

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:32 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And remember to be coy with yourself.  And bring home flowers.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

C'mon... everybody does it.

 

I just buy myself a nice dinner first.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

 

You date yourself?!?!?  Interesting place to come out...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

+1

 

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

 

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by
either the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you
can(could) run UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel.
(And OS/2 as well, but I'm dating myself).

 

-sc

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security
model. In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user"
versus "administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

 

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

 

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

 

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix
permissions. And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.


Cheers

Ken

 

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security
model of *nix to NT.

 

Bill Mayo

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ 


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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven M. Caesare]

Which reminds me of something I saw at a bar once...

 

-sc

 

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:03 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Keep saving, you'll get to 40 quarters eventually.  

 

Shook

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:01 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

I leave it on the nightstand where I'll find it later.

 

-sc

 

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And never accept money from yourself.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

I'm hard to get with myself.

 

-sc

 

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:32 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And remember to be coy with yourself.  And bring home flowers.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

C'mon... everybody does it.

 

I just buy myself a nice dinner first.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

 

You date yourself?!?!?  Interesting place to come out...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

+1

 

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

 

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by
either the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you
can(could) run UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel.
(And OS/2 as well, but I'm dating myself).

 

-sc

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security
model. In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user"
versus "administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

 

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

 

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

 

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix
permissions. And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.


Cheers

Ken

 

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security
model of *nix to NT.

 

Bill Mayo

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ 


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RE: Connection speed

[Matthew Bullock]

I would check for speed/duplex mismatches

From: HELP_PC [mailto:g...@enter.it]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:27 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Connection speed



A customer has a fiber connection that download at 4.5mb/s if connected 
straight to the ISP Router
When connected to the company switch behind a Zywall firewall the speed drops 
to 1.4 mb/s

What can be the cause ?

TIA

GuidoElia
HELPPC

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RE: Non-Repudiation (was: Mac and Windows mix)

[Raper, Jonathan - Eagle]

Agreed. While off the cuff it sounds like a great idea, I also see WAY too much 
opportunity for abuse. Many of us already don't have time to audit logs the way 
we should as it is, and I don't see that getting any better any time soon. Just 
because it is auditable, does not mean that anyone is protected, and besides, 
audits are for catching people after they've done something they weren't 
supposed to do. I would surmise that it is a rare occasion indeed for any of us 
to have caught someone in the act using audit logs, unless there was something 
suspect to begin with...


Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.commailto:%20jra...@eaglemds.com>
www.eaglemds.comhttp://www.eaglemds.com/>


From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 5:15 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Non-Repudiation (was: Mac and Windows mix)

Nope, I really wouldn't even want this as an option.

I hear what you're saying, but that feature would be way too easy to abuse.

ASB (My XeeSM Profile)
Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Ben Scott 
mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Andrew S. Baker 
mailto:asbz...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Or, without editing the plist you can walk up to any Macs with password
>>> protected screensaver on, enter the admin pswd & boom there's the user's
>>> desktop at your disposal.
>>
>>  I wish Windows had that option.
>
> Windows 7 has the best of both worlds, IMO.

 The reason I want that is that in some offices people lock the
session with something important open and then forget and leave, then
someone else who is trusted wants to unlock it but cannot (without
blowing away their logon session).  This is often *the* reason why
small offices don't want auto-screen-locking (or have to resort to
writing down passwords).

  Even non-repudiation is not an excuse; I would fully expect this to
show up in the logs, just just any number of other potentially
compromising events show up now.

 I'm not saying it should be enabled by default, but the option would
be useful in many small office environments.  You or Ken don't have to
use it.

-- Ben



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Re: Non-Repudiation (was: Mac and Windows mix)

[Andrew S. Baker]

Nope, I really wouldn't even want this as an option.

I hear what you're saying, but that feature would be way too easy to abuse.


*ASB *(My XeeSM Profile) 
*Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...*
* *
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Ben Scott  wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Andrew S. Baker  wrote:
> >>> Or, without editing the plist you can walk up to any Macs with password
> >>> protected screensaver on, enter the admin pswd & boom there's the
> user's
> >>> desktop at your disposal.
> >>
> >>  I wish Windows had that option.
> >
> > Windows 7 has the best of both worlds, IMO.
>
>  The reason I want that is that in some offices people lock the
> session with something important open and then forget and leave, then
> someone else who is trusted wants to unlock it but cannot (without
> blowing away their logon session).  This is often *the* reason why
> small offices don't want auto-screen-locking (or have to resort to
> writing down passwords).
>
>   Even non-repudiation is not an excuse; I would fully expect this to
> show up in the logs, just just any number of other potentially
> compromising events show up now.
>
>  I'm not saying it should be enabled by default, but the option would
> be useful in many small office environments.  You or Ken don't have to
> use it.
>
> -- Ben
>
>

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~   ~

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Andrew S. Baker]

*>>**The fact that it was darn difficult to do much of anything without
admin privileges?**
*
You know, considering that this is a technical list, I generally expect
precise, technical answers to specific questions.

"Things were hard..." fails to approach the level of expected precision.

Many people on this very list have already attested to running environments
where everyone was not an admin.   Successfully.  Yes, there are apps that
were written with no belief that anyone might want to run them with limited
rights (e.g. AutoCad), but this is not a limitation of the OS.  Many of
these apps exist TODAY, on current versions of Windows.

Please provide specific examples of these "darn difficult" things of which
you speak.  Because right now, all you're providing is much hand-waving.


*ASB *(My XeeSM Profile) 
*Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...*
* *
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:37 PM, John Aldrich
wrote:

>  The fact that it was darn difficult to do much of anything without admin
> privileges? IMHO, Windows XP was the first full 32-bit O/S designed as a
> “desktop OS”.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:15 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> And what, exactly, made Windows 2000 Workstation more of a "server" O/S?
>
>
> *ASB *(My XeeSM Profile) 
> *Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...*
> * *
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:34 PM, John Aldrich <
> jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com> wrote:
>
> Strictly NT. Windows 2000 was much more “user friendly” but was, IMO, more
> of a “server” O/S, even W2K Workstation.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:23 PM
>
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Funny, it was my user OS since pre-beta.
>
>
>
> Are you speaking of the NT “family”, or strictly the versions of the same
> codebase named “NT”?
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:29 AM
>
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> True… but NT was not a “user” operating system. J
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM
>
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading
> Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).
>
>
>
> That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released
> version (v3.1 back in 1993)
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM
>
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in
> “userspace” unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of
> software.
>

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google instant

[Lists - Level 5]

Not sure anyone mentioned this or not..

 

Looks pretty neat, they have some you tube videos on it. 

 

http://www.google.com/instant/#utm_campaign=launch
 &utm_medium=van&utm_source=instant

 

I don't know if it will transform searching anything but it has a coolness
effect. ..

 

 


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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Ben Scott]

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Andrew S. Baker  wrote:
>>> Or, without editing the plist you can walk up to any Macs with password
>>> protected screensaver on, enter the admin pswd & boom there's the user's
>>> desktop at your disposal.
>>
>>  I wish Windows had that option.
>
> Windows 7 has the best of both worlds, IMO.

  The reason I want that is that in some offices people lock the
session with something important open and then forget and leave, then
someone else who is trusted wants to unlock it but cannot (without
blowing away their logon session).  This is often *the* reason why
small offices don't want auto-screen-locking (or have to resort to
writing down passwords).

   Even non-repudiation is not an excuse; I would fully expect this to
show up in the logs, just just any number of other potentially
compromising events show up now.

  I'm not saying it should be enabled by default, but the option would
be useful in many small office environments.  You or Ken don't have to
use it.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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Re: [IIS] - Network blocking access to iframes...

[Tristan]

Just to note anyone having the same issue I was.

the iframe was referencing

domain.com

instead of

www.domain.com

and that fixed the problem.

Thanks, T

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Tristan  wrote:

> Thanks for the help. Hopefully that should work.
>
> Thanks again, T
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Eric Wittersheim <
> eric.wittersh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Try setting that address in Tools, Internet Options, connections, LAN
>> Settings, Advanced, Do not use proxy for these addresses.  You can set that
>> in a GPO if you like too.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Tristan  wrote:
>>
>>> They can use something like proxify.com and get to the page with no
>>> errors if that is what you mean.
>>>
>>> Not sure how they have it setup but definitely and internal config issue
>>> I assume?
>>>
>>> thanks, t
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Eric Wittersheim <
>>> eric.wittersh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Looks like a problem with ISA.  Can you bypass the proxy for that
 address?


 On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Tristan  wrote:

> http://uploads.cleargraphix.com/peer.png
>
> I don't know what version my customer is running of IIS or Server but,
> I think this is probably a general DNS issue. The page is suppose to pull 
> in
> an iframe that has a search box in it. External of the network it works
> fine. However, internally on their network they get the error above.
>
> Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks, T
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
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>>>
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>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>>
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>>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
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>

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Anders Blomgren]

You either extend the schema with the needed attributes or bind (in addition
to AD) to an OpenDirectory server (an OSX Server running Open Directory).
If said OpenDirectory server is also bound to AD then you can create objects
on it that just augment an existing AD objects for mac (Management
Preferences) management.

-Anders

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:

> Question: how does one bring a Mac under scope of management of WGM?
>
> For AD - the machine has to be joined to the domain. For Macs?
>
> Cheers
> Ken
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 5:05 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>  I think sdewilliam is saying that there is no modelling capability.
>
> GPMC lets you pick a user, a computer and an AD site, and dynamically
> layers all the policies at all levels that will affect the user, and gives
> you the resulting effective settings (after group filtering, WMI filtering
> etc). The advanced GPM also lets you do check-in/check-out, versioning
> control, workflow etc.
>
> Cheers
> Ken
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 2:21 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix
>
> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding: Isn't that exactly what Workgroup Manager
> does in Open Directory? There are plenty of settings which can be applied to
> individual Macs, users, user groups and computer groups.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: sdewilliman
> [mailto:sdewilli...@g2.com]
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010
> 17:41:34 -0700
> Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
> > Precisely, with OD /WGM there¹s no central mgmt console whereby an
> > admin can tell which/what policy is applied to what group.
> > Administration easily becoems a nightmare without 3rd party mgmt
> > software such as Centrify.
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
>

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Andy Shook]

Keep saving, you'll get to 40 quarters eventually.

Shook

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:01 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

I leave it on the nightstand where I'll find it later.

-sc

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

And never accept money from yourself.

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

I'm hard to get with myself.

-sc

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:32 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

And remember to be coy with yourself.  And bring home flowers.

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

C'mon... everybody does it.

I just buy myself a nice dinner first.

-sc

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

You date yourself?!?!?  Interesting place to come out...
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
mailto:scaes...@caesare.com>> wrote:
+1

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by either 
the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you can(could) run 
UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel. (And OS/2 as well, but 
I'm dating myself).

-sc

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security model. 
In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user" versus 
"administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix permissions. 
And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.

Cheers
Ken

From: Mayo, Bill 
[mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security model of 
*nix to NT.

Bill Mayo



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~

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~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ 

RE: Mac and Windows mix

[John Cook]

Do you ever feel short changed?

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:01 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

I leave it on the nightstand where I'll find it later.

-sc

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

And never accept money from yourself.

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

I'm hard to get with myself.

-sc

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:32 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

And remember to be coy with yourself.  And bring home flowers.

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

C'mon... everybody does it.

I just buy myself a nice dinner first.

-sc

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

You date yourself?!?!?  Interesting place to come out...
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
mailto:scaes...@caesare.com>> wrote:
+1

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by either 
the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you can(could) run 
UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel. (And OS/2 as well, but 
I'm dating myself).

-sc

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security model. 
In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user" versus 
"administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix permissions. 
And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.

Cheers
Ken

From: Mayo, Bill 
[mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security model of 
*nix to NT.

Bill Mayo



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~

~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven M. Caesare]

I leave it on the nightstand where I'll find it later.

 

-sc

 

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And never accept money from yourself.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

I'm hard to get with myself.

 

-sc

 

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:32 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And remember to be coy with yourself.  And bring home flowers.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

C'mon... everybody does it.

 

I just buy myself a nice dinner first.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

 

You date yourself?!?!?  Interesting place to come out...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

+1

 

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

 

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by
either the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you
can(could) run UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel.
(And OS/2 as well, but I'm dating myself).

 

-sc

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security
model. In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user"
versus "administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

 

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

 

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

 

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix
permissions. And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.


Cheers

Ken

 

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security
model of *nix to NT.

 

Bill Mayo

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ 


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with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

 

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RE: what is the rss feed url here

[pdw1914]

I wasn't aware that there was one.  I wish there was and I wish Sunbelt would 
set their forums up for RSS.  Cisco finally got around to it and it's great. 
(Much better than getting 200+ emails per day just from their forums.)

> From: validemai...@gmail.com
> To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com
> Subject: what is the rss feed url here
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 11:38:06 -0400
> 
> I would like to add it to the ipad feedler.
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
> 
> ---
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> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
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> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
  
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0 Day Adobe Reader

[Ziots, Edward]

http://secunia.com/advisories/41340/

 

Heads up, more fun from Adobe Land!

 

Z

 

 

Edward E. Ziots

CISSP, Network +, Security +

Network Engineer

Lifespan Organization

Email:ezi...@lifespan.org

Cell:401-639-3505


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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RE: Connection speed

[Lists - Level 5]

I just went through this and turned out to be the MTU. Our Sonicwall MTU was
1500, our fiber provider was 9000, but we had to lower it to 1404 to get any
consistency.

 

From: HELP_PC [mailto:g...@enter.it] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:06 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: R: Connection speed

 

I suspect it , as also Erik told.

 I'll give a look without it

 

GuidoElia

HELPPC

 

 

  _  

Da: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Inviato: mercoledì 8 settembre 2010 15.02
A: NT System Admin Issues
Oggetto: RE: Connection speed

Um... maybe the firewall?

 

-sc

 

From: HELP_PC [mailto:g...@enter.it] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 7:27 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Connection speed

 

 

A customer has a fiber connection that download at 4.5mb/s if connected
straight to the ISP Router 
When connected to the company switch behind a Zywall firewall the speed
drops to 1.4 mb/s 

What can be the cause ? 

TIA 

GuidoElia 
HELPPC 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Raper, Jonathan - Eagle]

+10

Jonathan L. Raper, MCSE

Thumb-typed from my HTC Incredible (and yes, it really is) Droid. Please excuse 
brevity & any misspellings.

- Reply message -
From: "Don Guyer" 
Date: Wed, Sep 8, 2010 3:05 pm
Subject: Mac and Windows mix
To: "NT System Admin Issues" 

Me=Migraine edition

Don Guyer
Systems Engineer - Information Services
Prudential, Fox & Roach/Trident Group
431 W. Lancaster Avenue
Devon, PA 19333
Direct: (610) 993-3299
Fax: (610) 650-5306
don.gu...@prufoxroach.com

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:03 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

I just want to go back to the days of Windows Me.  Things were so much easier 
then…

Shook

From: John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:59 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

>From personal experience. I haven’t had a *lot* to do with Windows 2000, but I 
>did work with several NT boxes at a previous employer. Maybe it was just the 
>software we were using (and it *has* been several years) but IIRC, you pretty 
>much had to be an admin to do anything on those boxes. Same goes for 2000. At 
>least the default config. I guess things might have been able to be tweaked, 
>but on the default install it was pretty difficult to do anything if you 
>weren’t an admin.

[cid:image001.jpg@01CB4F67.2660E060][cid:image002@01cb4f67.2660e060]

From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:41 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

If you accept/trust the advice on this list, why do you cling to your 
ill-founded assertion in the face of all the evidence to the contrary?



On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:37 PM, John Aldrich 
mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com>> wrote:
The fact that it was darn difficult to do much of anything without admin 
privileges? IMHO, Windows XP was the first full 32-bit O/S designed as a 
“desktop OS”.

[cid:image001.jpg@01CB4F67.2660E060][cid:image002@01cb4f67.2660e060]

From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:15 PM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

And what, exactly, made Windows 2000 Workstation more of a "server" O/S?

ASB (My XeeSM Profile)
Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:34 PM, John Aldrich 
mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com>> wrote:
Strictly NT. Windows 2000 was much more “user friendly” but was, IMO, more of a 
“server” O/S, even W2K Workstation.

[cid:image001.jpg@01CB4F67.2660E060][cid:image002@01cb4f67.2660e060]

From: Steven M. Caesare 
[mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:23 PM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Funny, it was my user OS since pre-beta.

Are you speaking of the NT “family”, or strictly the versions of the same 
codebase named “NT”?

-sc

From: John Aldrich 
[mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:29 AM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

True… but NT was not a “user” operating system. :)

[cid:image001.jpg@01CB4F67.2660E060][cid:image002@01cb4f67.2660e060]

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading 
Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).

That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released version 
(v3.1 back in 1993)

Cheers
Ken

From: John Aldrich 
[mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in “userspace” 
unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of software.

[cid:image001.jpg@01CB4F67.2660E060][cid:image002@01cb4f67.2660e060]

From: Steven M. Caesare 
[mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

What do you understand that model to be?

-sc

From: John Aldrich 
[mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression that Mac 
OS/X was significantly *more* secure than a comparable Windows machine, due to 
the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying to learn, not 
trying to start  a Mac 

Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Raper, Jonathan - Eagle]

"Anything"???

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I can do quite a lot with MS 
Office, Open Office, Visio, IE, Google Chrome, Thunderbird, Adobe, and a number 
of other apps quite efficiently on 2000 or XP with no admin privvies...

Jonathan L. Raper, MCSE

Thumb-typed from my HTC Incredible (and yes, it really is) Droid. Please excuse 
brevity & any misspellings.

- Reply message -
From: "John Aldrich" 
Date: Wed, Sep 8, 2010 3:00 pm
Subject: Mac and Windows mix
To: "NT System Admin Issues" 

>From personal experience. I haven’t had a *lot* to do with Windows 2000, but I 
>did work with several NT boxes at a previous employer. Maybe it was just the 
>software we were using (and it *has* been several years) but IIRC, you pretty 
>much had to be an admin to do anything on those boxes. Same goes for 2000. At 
>least the default config. I guess things might have been able to be tweaked, 
>but on the default install it was pretty difficult to do anything if you 
>weren’t an admin.

[cid:image001.jpg@01CB4F66.6DDF4B80][cid:image002@01cb4f66.6ddf4b80]

From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:41 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

If you accept/trust the advice on this list, why do you cling to your 
ill-founded assertion in the face of all the evidence to the contrary?



On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:37 PM, John Aldrich 
mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com>> wrote:
The fact that it was darn difficult to do much of anything without admin 
privileges? IMHO, Windows XP was the first full 32-bit O/S designed as a 
“desktop OS”.

[cid:image001.jpg@01CB4F66.6DDF4B80][cid:image002@01cb4f66.6ddf4b80]

From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:15 PM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

And what, exactly, made Windows 2000 Workstation more of a "server" O/S?

ASB (My XeeSM Profile)
Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:34 PM, John Aldrich 
mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com>> wrote:
Strictly NT. Windows 2000 was much more “user friendly” but was, IMO, more of a 
“server” O/S, even W2K Workstation.

[cid:image001.jpg@01CB4F66.6DDF4B80][cid:image002@01cb4f66.6ddf4b80]

From: Steven M. Caesare 
[mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:23 PM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Funny, it was my user OS since pre-beta.

Are you speaking of the NT “family”, or strictly the versions of the same 
codebase named “NT”?

-sc

From: John Aldrich 
[mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:29 AM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

True… but NT was not a “user” operating system. :)

[cid:image001.jpg@01CB4F66.6DDF4B80][cid:image002@01cb4f66.6ddf4b80]

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading 
Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).

That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released version 
(v3.1 back in 1993)

Cheers
Ken

From: John Aldrich 
[mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in “userspace” 
unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of software.

[cid:image001.jpg@01CB4F66.6DDF4B80][cid:image002@01cb4f66.6ddf4b80]

From: Steven M. Caesare 
[mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

What do you understand that model to be?

-sc

From: John Aldrich 
[mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression that Mac 
OS/X was significantly *more* secure than a comparable Windows machine, due to 
the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying to learn, not 
trying to start  a Mac Vs. Windows thread (there are enough of those, that I 
don’t need to start one! )


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~

~   ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to 
listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with

RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steve Hanna]

Awww I'm out of popcorn already...

  -Original Message-
  From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:41 PM
  To: NT System Admin Issues
  Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix


  If you accept/trust the advice on this list, why do you cling to your
ill-founded assertion in the face of all the evidence to the contrary?



  On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:37 PM, John Aldrich
 wrote:

The fact that it was darn difficult to do much of anything without admin
privileges? IMHO, Windows XP was the first full 32-bit O/S designed as a
“desktop OS”.







From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:15 PM


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix




And what, exactly, made Windows 2000 Workstation more of a "server" O/S?


ASB (My XeeSM Profile)
Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...


On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:34 PM, John Aldrich
 wrote:

Strictly NT. Windows 2000 was much more “user friendly” but was, IMO,
more of a “server” O/S, even W2K Workstation.







From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:23 PM


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix



Funny, it was my user OS since pre-beta.



Are you speaking of the NT “family”, or strictly the versions of the
same codebase named “NT”?



-sc



From: John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:29 AM


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix



True… but NT was not a “user” operating system. J







From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix



This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading
Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).



That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released
version (v3.1 back in 1993)



Cheers

Ken



From: John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix



Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in
“userspace” unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of
software.







From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix



What do you understand that model to be?



-sc



From: John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix



Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression
that Mac OS/X was significantly *more* secure than a comparable Windows
machine, due to the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying
to learn, not trying to start  a Mac Vs. Windows thread (there are enough of
those, that I don’t need to start one! )



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~


~   ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here:
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin



  ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
  ~   ~

  ---
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http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
  or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
  with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Jonathan Link]

If you accept/trust the advice on this list, why do you cling to your
ill-founded assertion in the face of all the evidence to the contrary?



On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:37 PM, John Aldrich
wrote:

>  The fact that it was darn difficult to do much of anything without admin
> privileges? IMHO, Windows XP was the first full 32-bit O/S designed as a
> “desktop OS”.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:15 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> And what, exactly, made Windows 2000 Workstation more of a "server" O/S?
>
>
> *ASB *(My XeeSM Profile) 
> *Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...*
> * *
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:34 PM, John Aldrich <
> jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com> wrote:
>
> Strictly NT. Windows 2000 was much more “user friendly” but was, IMO, more
> of a “server” O/S, even W2K Workstation.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:23 PM
>
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Funny, it was my user OS since pre-beta.
>
>
>
> Are you speaking of the NT “family”, or strictly the versions of the same
> codebase named “NT”?
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:29 AM
>
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> True… but NT was not a “user” operating system. J
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM
>
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading
> Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).
>
>
>
> That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released
> version (v3.1 back in 1993)
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM
>
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in
> “userspace” unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of
> software.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM
>
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> What do you understand that model to be?
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM
>
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression that
> Mac OS/X was significantly **more* *secure than a comparable Windows
> machine, due to the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying
> to learn, not trying to start  a Mac Vs. Windows thread (there are enough of
> those, that I don’t need to start one! )
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
>  ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin<><>

RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Maglinger, Paul]

And never accept money from yourself.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

I'm hard to get with myself.

 

-sc

 

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:32 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And remember to be coy with yourself.  And bring home flowers.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

C'mon... everybody does it.

 

I just buy myself a nice dinner first.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

 

You date yourself?!?!?  Interesting place to come out...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

+1

 

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

 

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by
either the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you
can(could) run UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel.
(And OS/2 as well, but I'm dating myself).

 

-sc

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security
model. In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user"
versus "administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

 

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

 

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

 

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix
permissions. And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.


Cheers

Ken

 

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security
model of *nix to NT.

 

Bill Mayo

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ 


~   ~

---
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~   ~

---
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with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven M. Caesare]

I'm hard to get with myself.

 

-sc

 

From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:32 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And remember to be coy with yourself.  And bring home flowers.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

C'mon... everybody does it.

 

I just buy myself a nice dinner first.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

 

You date yourself?!?!?  Interesting place to come out...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

+1

 

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

 

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by
either the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you
can(could) run UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel.
(And OS/2 as well, but I'm dating myself).

 

-sc

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security
model. In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user"
versus "administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

 

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

 

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

 

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix
permissions. And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.


Cheers

Ken

 

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security
model of *nix to NT.

 

Bill Mayo

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ 


~   ~

---
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---
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Re: [IIS] - Network blocking access to iframes...

[Tristan]

Thanks for the help. Hopefully that should work.

Thanks again, T

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Eric Wittersheim <
eric.wittersh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Try setting that address in Tools, Internet Options, connections, LAN
> Settings, Advanced, Do not use proxy for these addresses.  You can set that
> in a GPO if you like too.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Tristan  wrote:
>
>> They can use something like proxify.com and get to the page with no
>> errors if that is what you mean.
>>
>> Not sure how they have it setup but definitely and internal config issue I
>> assume?
>>
>> thanks, t
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Eric Wittersheim <
>> eric.wittersh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like a problem with ISA.  Can you bypass the proxy for that
>>> address?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Tristan  wrote:
>>>
 http://uploads.cleargraphix.com/peer.png

 I don't know what version my customer is running of IIS or Server but, I
 think this is probably a general DNS issue. The page is suppose to pull in
 an iframe that has a search box in it. External of the network it works
 fine. However, internally on their network they get the error above.

 Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 Thanks, T

 ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
 ~   ~

 ---
 To manage subscriptions click here:
 http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
 or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
 with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

>>>
>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>>> ~   ~
>>>
>>> ---
>>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>>
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>>
>> ---
>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Andrew S. Baker]

And what, exactly, made Windows 2000 Workstation more of a "server" O/S?


*ASB *(My XeeSM Profile) 
*Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...*
* *
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:34 PM, John Aldrich
wrote:

>  Strictly NT. Windows 2000 was much more “user friendly” but was, IMO,
> more of a “server” O/S, even W2K Workstation.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:23 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Funny, it was my user OS since pre-beta.
>
>
>
> Are you speaking of the NT “family”, or strictly the versions of the same
> codebase named “NT”?
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:29 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> True… but NT was not a “user” operating system. J
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading
> Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).
>
>
>
> That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released
> version (v3.1 back in 1993)
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in
> “userspace” unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of
> software.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> What do you understand that model to be?
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression that
> Mac OS/X was significantly **more* *secure than a comparable Windows
> machine, due to the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying
> to learn, not trying to start  a Mac Vs. Windows thread (there are enough of
> those, that I don’t need to start one! )
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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Re: [IIS] - Network blocking access to iframes...

[Eric Wittersheim]

Try setting that address in Tools, Internet Options, connections, LAN
Settings, Advanced, Do not use proxy for these addresses.  You can set that
in a GPO if you like too.

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Tristan  wrote:

> They can use something like proxify.com and get to the page with no errors
> if that is what you mean.
>
> Not sure how they have it setup but definitely and internal config issue I
> assume?
>
> thanks, t
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Eric Wittersheim <
> eric.wittersh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Looks like a problem with ISA.  Can you bypass the proxy for that address?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Tristan  wrote:
>>
>>> http://uploads.cleargraphix.com/peer.png
>>>
>>> I don't know what version my customer is running of IIS or Server but, I
>>> think this is probably a general DNS issue. The page is suppose to pull in
>>> an iframe that has a search box in it. External of the network it works
>>> fine. However, internally on their network they get the error above.
>>>
>>> Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks, T
>>>
>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>>> ~   ~
>>>
>>> ---
>>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>>
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>>
>> ---
>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
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> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

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~   ~

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Andrew S. Baker]

How does the way applications have been written, but developers who insist
on developing code with full rights, prevent you from comparing the security
models of *nix and Windows?

A model is a model is a model, and the wrong permissions will break an app
not prepared to deal with the wrong permissions.  These are two separate
issues.


*ASB *(My XeeSM Profile) 
*Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...*
* *
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Mayo, Bill  wrote:

>  I agree that NT was a user operating system.  However, the real point is
> that, at least as of Windows XP, a whole lot of "user" programs just plain
> didn't work if you logged on as a regular user.  Therefore, people were
> trained to run with higher permissions to be able to get anything done.  I
> can't tell you how many times I have been told by a sofware vendor, "It
> works fine if you log on as administrator."  To get around these problems,
> you either have to do as suggested, or use various tools/auditing to try and
> figure out what was being blocked and work around it.  Therefore, I don't
> think you can realistically compare the security model of *nix to NT.
>
> Bill Mayo
>
>  --
> *From:* James Kerr [mailto:cluster...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:26 AM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: Mac and Windows mix
>
>  I was under the impression that NT4 workstation was for users, business
> users and 9x was for home, and small peer to peer networks. The company I
> worked for at the time didn't have any 9x machines but maybe that was
> because they are an engineering firm.
>
> James
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* John Aldrich 
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:28 AM
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>  True… but NT was not a “user” operating system. J
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading
> Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).
>
>
>
> That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released
> version (v3.1 back in 1993)
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in
> “userspace” unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of
> software.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> What do you understand that model to be?
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression that
> Mac OS/X was significantly **more* *secure than a comparable Windows
> machine, due to the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying
> to learn, not trying to start  a Mac Vs. Windows thread (there are enough of
> those, that I don’t need to start one! )
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Ziots, Edward]

Yep same, MCSE in 4.0 MCSA 2000, nothing for 2k3, prolly nadda for
Win2k8. 

 

But I have to say I am liking SQL 2005/SQL 2008, maybe enough to study
for the MCITP in SQL 2005/2008 accordingly. 

 

Also quick question about IIS 7.0. 

 

I am reading the IIS 7 Implementation and Administration by John Paul
Mueller and he is saying that you need to install SQL on your IIS
instances to be able to use the advanced features. Is this true ( Ken?).
Is there not a way to point each of your IIS Instances to a SQL server
accordingly, and do it that way. Usually like to keep the foot-print of
a IIS Server small and to the point, IIS with its installation out the
box is pretty good about that but the requirement to use SQL ( even SQL
express) doesn't really make me very happy from an implementation,
design standpoint and it would get even messier dealing with IIS/SQL on
the same box, more surface area to secure, just to make a IIS 7.0 work? 

 

Any ideas from the adopters of IIS 7.0 in their organization at this
moment? 



EZ

 

Edward E. Ziots

CISSP, Network +, Security +

Network Engineer

Lifespan Organization

Email:ezi...@lifespan.org

Cell:401-639-3505

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:39 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

SQL Server 6.0/6.5 was a whole different kettle of fish to 7.0

 

Ken Schaefer

Architect | CTO Office | SOEasy Program

Microsoft MVP (Windows Server - IIS)

MCITP (EA, SA), MCTS (ISA, SQL Server, Hyper-V, Ops Manager, MOSS),
MCSE+Security, MCDBA

Mobile: +65 82485156 (SG) | +61 412 529 449 (AU)

 

HP Enterprise Services

Level 3, Block C, Jackson Square, 11 Lorong 3, 

Toa Payoh, Singapore, 319759

 

 

 

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

+1

 

And I was a "Microsoft Certified SQL 7.0 Administrator".

 

Now, I can barely spell SQL.

 

Regards,

 

Michael B. Smith

Consultant and Exchange MVP

http://TheEssentialExchange.com

 

From: Don Guyer [mailto:don.gu...@prufoxroach.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:21 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Ditto on that. Got my first MCSE doing the NT 4 track.

 

Don Guyer

Systems Engineer - Information Services

Prudential, Fox & Roach/Trident Group

431 W. Lancaster Avenue

Devon, PA 19333

Direct: (610) 993-3299

Fax: (610) 650-5306

don.gu...@prufoxroach.com

 

From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:12 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

 

Also the US Military standardized on NT workstation back in the mid
90's, IIRC.  I joined this list, mainly because I was using and
deploying NT as a workstation back in '97.

 

Just because it wasn't done by someone you know doesn't mean it wasn't
done at all.

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:05 AM, John Aldrich
 wrote:

NT was never adopted as an end-user operating system, at least not by
anyone I know. It was primarily used as a server O/S except for a few
specialized situations. Granted, in my previous career, I did use an
NT-based video editing workstation, but most people I know used Win9x
and it's successors until Microsoft finally got smart and forced
everyone to move to an O/S with a separate admin and user workspace
(started with XP, and improved in Vista and even more in Win7.)

A "user" O/S I define as what you'd find in most workspaces... i.e.
end-user workstations. I'm just happy that Microsoft finally got with
the program and stopped letting users run as the local admin by default.

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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~   ~

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Andrew S. Baker]

*>>**NT was never adopted as an end-user operating system, at least not by
anyone I know*

You need a larger circle of friends.


*>>** I’m just happy that Microsoft finally got with the program and stopped
letting users run as the local admin by default.*

Your frame of reference needs recalibrating.

If you're talking home users, then all OSes allow you to make a choice about
what level of rights you're going to have on an ongoing basis.

In a corporate setting, which is where the bulk of this discussion has been,
domain users are not automatically admins of any 32-bit Windows system by
default.


*ASB *(My XeeSM Profile) 
*Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...*
* *
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:05 AM, John Aldrich
wrote:

>  NT was never adopted as an end-user operating system, at least not by
> anyone I know. It was primarily used as a server O/S except for a few
> specialized situations. Granted, in my previous career, I did use an
> NT-based video editing workstation, but most people I know used Win9x and
> it’s successors until Microsoft finally got smart and forced everyone to
> move to an O/S with a separate admin and user workspace (started with XP,
> and improved in Vista and even more in Win7.)
>
> A “user” O/S I define as what you’d find in most workspaces… i.e. end-user
> workstations. I’m just happy that Microsoft finally got with the program and
> stopped letting users run as the local admin by default.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:43 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Yes, it was NT Workstation and NT Server were separate products.
>
> I deployed NT Workstation 3.51 and NT Workstation 4.0 many times.  Was it
> missing some stuff?  USB support was the biggest around the NT 4.0 time
> frame.  But it was a solid OS and had vastly superiour stability to Win3.1
> compared to NT 3.51 or Win9x compared to NT 4.0.
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, John Aldrich <
> jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com> wrote:
>
> True… but NT was not a “user” operating system. J
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM
>
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading
> Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).
>
>
>
> That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released
> version (v3.1 back in 1993)
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in
> “userspace” unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of
> software.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> What do you understand that model to be?
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression that
> Mac OS/X was significantly **more* *secure than a comparable Windows
> machine, due to the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying
> to learn, not trying to start  a Mac Vs. Windows thread (there are enough of
> those, that I don’t need to start one! )
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Andrew S. Baker]

Then who was using it?  Robots?

I've been running NT since v3.5  (I played with a 3.1 installation for a
while, but it was mainly on our servers).


*ASB *(My XeeSM Profile) 
*Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...*
* *
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, John Aldrich
wrote:

>  True… but NT was not a “user” operating system. J
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading
> Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).
>
>
>
> That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released
> version (v3.1 back in 1993)
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in
> “userspace” unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of
> software.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> What do you understand that model to be?
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression that
> Mac OS/X was significantly **more* *secure than a comparable Windows
> machine, due to the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying
> to learn, not trying to start  a Mac Vs. Windows thread (there are enough of
> those, that I don’t need to start one! )
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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Re: To be diverse...or not

[Andrew S. Baker]

It depends where the diversity and specialty are going to be.

Specializing in relational database platforms, CRM, ERP or enterprise
messaging makes a lot of sense.

Specializing in AV or patch management or office productivity suites is less
useful.

Specializing in OS platforms is a mixed bag -- a case could be made for at
least knowing 2 well enough.

*ASB *(My XeeSM Profile) 
*Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...*
* *
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:13 PM, David Lum  wrote:

>  Scenario: Full time Systems Engineer by day, IT consultant by night (4
> clients 5 servers ~100 workstations).
>
>
>
> Does it make sense to have any diversity in products (AV, patch management,
> etc) or is it better to leverage knowledge? I ask because I would think it
> makes more sense to stick with one product and be pretty much the de-facto
> expert, but I have found that having experience with different AV products
> (McAfee, Trend, Vipre) at this point to be beneficial and doesn’t really add
> any overhead vs. a single product. The catch is I had prior experience with
> Trend Micro at %PriorDayjob%  so one client got that, %Currentdayjob% has
> McAfee so I learned that, and Vipre Enterprise came out so I tried that at
> smaller clients.
>
>
>
> I say that to say this: Patching is my current dilemma and I have WSUS
> everywhere and no 3rd party stuff anywhere. If I choose a tool for one
> place does it make sense to use this same tool everywhere else if the price
> is acceptable to each party involved? Some tools are cheaper than others and
> can save a client money even though they could afford the more expensive
> option, but the cheaper option means I am working with more than one tool
> (which means it could be argued the client ends up spending more due to my
> spool up time to learn a new app). I don’t see expanding my client base by
> more than a client or two every other year in the forseeable future.
>
>
>
> Thoughts and comments?
>
> *David Lum** **// *SYSTEMS ENGINEER
> NORTHWEST EVALUATION ASSOCIATION
> (Desk) 971.222.1025 *// *(Cell) 503.267.9764
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

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~   ~

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Re: [IIS] - Network blocking access to iframes...

[Tristan]

They can use something like proxify.com and get to the page with no errors
if that is what you mean.

Not sure how they have it setup but definitely and internal config issue I
assume?

thanks, t

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Eric Wittersheim <
eric.wittersh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Looks like a problem with ISA.  Can you bypass the proxy for that address?
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Tristan  wrote:
>
>> http://uploads.cleargraphix.com/peer.png
>>
>> I don't know what version my customer is running of IIS or Server but, I
>> think this is probably a general DNS issue. The page is suppose to pull in
>> an iframe that has a search box in it. External of the network it works
>> fine. However, internally on their network they get the error above.
>>
>> Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks, T
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>>
>> ---
>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

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~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Maglinger, Paul]

And remember to be coy with yourself.  And bring home flowers.

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

C'mon... everybody does it.

 

I just buy myself a nice dinner first.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

 

You date yourself?!?!?  Interesting place to come out...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

+1

 

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

 

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by
either the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you
can(could) run UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel.
(And OS/2 as well, but I'm dating myself).

 

-sc

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security
model. In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user"
versus "administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

 

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

 

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

 

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix
permissions. And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.


Cheers

Ken

 

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security
model of *nix to NT.

 

Bill Mayo

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ 


~   ~

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~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Michael B. Smith]

Ahhh. S&H Green Stamps. Those were the days.

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:22 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Wow:

Mrs. Smith: [about her prostitution] Sometimes I do it for pudding.
Andy Shook: Sometimes I do it *in* pudding.
Mrs. Smith: Sometimes I do it for green stamps. And sometimes I do it just for 
kicks.
Bull Shannon: [to Roz] Can you imagine degrading yourself for green stamps?
Andy Shook: Sure. By now I would have enough for that sail boat.

-sc

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:16 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0660573/quotes

Shook

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:13 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

And I can proudly say I have _NO_ idea what you are talking about.

Freak.

-sc

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:12 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

I thought your thing was pudding like that old lady in the retirement village 
on Night Court.  I'm now officially scared that that was the first thing that 
popped into my head.

Shook

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:10 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

You have NO idea.

What I once did for a ketchup packet I won't mention here.

-sc

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:07 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

And I hear you're a really cheap date.

Shook

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

+1

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by either 
the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you can(could) run 
UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel. (And OS/2 as well, but 
I'm dating myself).

-sc

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security model. 
In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user" versus 
"administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix permissions. 
And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.

Cheers
Ken

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security model of 
*nix to NT.

Bill Mayo



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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~ Finally, powerful 

RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven M. Caesare]

Wow:

 

Mrs. Smith: [about her prostitution] Sometimes I do it for pudding. 

Andy Shook: Sometimes I do it *in* pudding. 

Mrs. Smith: Sometimes I do it for green stamps. And sometimes I do it
just for kicks. 

Bull Shannon: [to Roz] Can you imagine degrading yourself for green
stamps? 

Andy Shook: Sure. By now I would have enough for that sail boat.

 

-sc

 

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:16 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0660573/quotes 

 

Shook

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:13 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And I can proudly say I have _NO_ idea what you are talking about.

 

Freak.

 

-sc

 

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:12 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

I thought your thing was pudding like that old lady in the retirement
village on Night Court.  I'm now officially scared that that was the
first thing that popped into my head. 

 

Shook

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:10 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

You have NO idea.

 

What I once did for a ketchup packet I won't mention here.

 

-sc

 

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:07 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And I hear you're a really cheap date.  

 

Shook

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

+1

 

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

 

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by
either the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you
can(could) run UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel.
(And OS/2 as well, but I'm dating myself).

 

-sc

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security
model. In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user"
versus "administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

 

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

 

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

 

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix
permissions. And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.


Cheers

Ken

 

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security
model of *nix to NT.

 

Bill Mayo

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here:
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
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with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

~ Finally, powerful endpoint securit

RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Andy Shook]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0660573/quotes

Shook

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:13 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

And I can proudly say I have _NO_ idea what you are talking about.

Freak.

-sc

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:12 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

I thought your thing was pudding like that old lady in the retirement village 
on Night Court.  I'm now officially scared that that was the first thing that 
popped into my head.

Shook

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:10 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

You have NO idea.

What I once did for a ketchup packet I won't mention here.

-sc

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:07 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

And I hear you're a really cheap date.

Shook

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

+1

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by either 
the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you can(could) run 
UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel. (And OS/2 as well, but 
I'm dating myself).

-sc

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security model. 
In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user" versus 
"administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix permissions. 
And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.

Cheers
Ken

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security model of 
*nix to NT.

Bill Mayo



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to 
listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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or send an email to 
listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
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~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven M. Caesare]

And I can proudly say I have _NO_ idea what you are talking about.

 

Freak.

 

-sc

 

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:12 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

I thought your thing was pudding like that old lady in the retirement
village on Night Court.  I'm now officially scared that that was the
first thing that popped into my head. 

 

Shook

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:10 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

You have NO idea.

 

What I once did for a ketchup packet I won't mention here.

 

-sc

 

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:07 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And I hear you're a really cheap date.  

 

Shook

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

+1

 

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

 

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by
either the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you
can(could) run UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel.
(And OS/2 as well, but I'm dating myself).

 

-sc

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security
model. In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user"
versus "administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

 

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

 

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

 

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix
permissions. And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.


Cheers

Ken

 

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security
model of *nix to NT.

 

Bill Mayo

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
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~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Andy Shook]

I thought your thing was pudding like that old lady in the retirement village 
on Night Court.  I'm now officially scared that that was the first thing that 
popped into my head.

Shook

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:10 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

You have NO idea.

What I once did for a ketchup packet I won't mention here.

-sc

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:07 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

And I hear you're a really cheap date.

Shook

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

+1

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by either 
the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you can(could) run 
UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel. (And OS/2 as well, but 
I'm dating myself).

-sc

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security model. 
In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user" versus 
"administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix permissions. 
And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.

Cheers
Ken

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security model of 
*nix to NT.

Bill Mayo



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to 
listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
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~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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~   ~

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~   ~

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with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Andy Shook]

Naw.  I ain't driving that far...

Shook

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:08 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

You would know.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:07 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

And I hear you're a really cheap date.

Shook

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

+1

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by either 
the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you can(could) run 
UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel. (And OS/2 as well, but 
I'm dating myself).

-sc

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security model. 
In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user" versus 
"administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix permissions. 
And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.

Cheers
Ken

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security model of 
*nix to NT.

Bill Mayo



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven M. Caesare]

You have NO idea.

 

What I once did for a ketchup packet I won't mention here.

 

-sc

 

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:07 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

And I hear you're a really cheap date.  

 

Shook

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

+1

 

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

 

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by
either the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you
can(could) run UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel.
(And OS/2 as well, but I'm dating myself).

 

-sc

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security
model. In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user"
versus "administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

 

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

 

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

 

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix
permissions. And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.


Cheers

Ken

 

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security
model of *nix to NT.

 

Bill Mayo

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Michael B. Smith]

You would know.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:07 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

And I hear you're a really cheap date.

Shook

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

+1

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by either 
the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you can(could) run 
UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel. (And OS/2 as well, but 
I'm dating myself).

-sc

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security model. 
In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user" versus 
"administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix permissions. 
And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.

Cheers
Ken

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security model of 
*nix to NT.

Bill Mayo



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Andy Shook]

And I hear you're a really cheap date.

Shook

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

+1

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by either 
the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you can(could) run 
UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel. (And OS/2 as well, but 
I'm dating myself).

-sc

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security model. 
In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user" versus 
"administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix permissions. 
And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.

Cheers
Ken

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security model of 
*nix to NT.

Bill Mayo



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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Re: [IIS] - Network blocking access to iframes...

[Eric Wittersheim]

Looks like a problem with ISA.  Can you bypass the proxy for that address?

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Tristan  wrote:

> http://uploads.cleargraphix.com/peer.png
>
> I don't know what version my customer is running of IIS or Server but, I
> think this is probably a general DNS issue. The page is suppose to pull in
> an iframe that has a search box in it. External of the network it works
> fine. However, internally on their network they get the error above.
>
> Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks, T
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
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> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
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[IIS] - Network blocking access to iframes...

[Tristan]

http://uploads.cleargraphix.com/peer.png

I don't know what version my customer is running of IIS or Server but, I
think this is probably a general DNS issue. The page is suppose to pull in
an iframe that has a search box in it. External of the network it works
fine. However, internally on their network they get the error above.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, T

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Don Ely]

Subtle differences, but I agree with you...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Steven Peck  wrote:

> There were differences between the Workstation model and the Server model.
> Microsoft put them there.
>
> NT3.51/NT4/w2k all of these were viable and useful workstations (not
> servers).
>
> Steven
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Don Ely  wrote:
>
>> U...  really?!?!  Both NT4 and 2k were written off of the same code
>> base...  2k3 and XP as well...
>>
>>
>>  On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:34 AM, John Aldrich <
>> jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com> wrote:
>>
>>>   Strictly NT. Windows 2000 was much more “user friendly” but was, IMO,
>>> more of a “server” O/S, even W2K Workstation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:23 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
>>> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Funny, it was my user OS since pre-beta.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you speaking of the NT “family”, or strictly the versions of the same
>>> codebase named “NT”?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -sc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:29 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
>>> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> True… but NT was not a “user” operating system. J
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
>>>  *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
>>> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading
>>> Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released
>>> version (v3.1 back in 1993)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
>>> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in
>>> “userspace” unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of
>>> software.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
>>> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you understand that model to be?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -sc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
>>> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression that
>>> Mac OS/X was significantly **more* *secure than a comparable Windows
>>> machine, due to the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying
>>> to learn, not trying to start  a Mac Vs. Windows thread (there are enough of
>>> those, that I don’t need to start one! )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>>>
>>> ~   ~
>>>
>>> ---
>>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>>
>>>  ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>>> ~   ~
>>>
>>> ---
>>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>>
>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>>> ~   ~
>>>
>>> ---
>>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>>
>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>>> ~   ~
>>>
>>> ---
>>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>>
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>>
>> ---
>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>> or s

Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven Peck]

There were differences between the Workstation model and the Server model.
Microsoft put them there.

NT3.51/NT4/w2k all of these were viable and useful workstations (not
servers).

Steven

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Don Ely  wrote:

> U...  really?!?!  Both NT4 and 2k were written off of the same code
> base...  2k3 and XP as well...
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:34 AM, John Aldrich  > wrote:
>
>>  Strictly NT. Windows 2000 was much more “user friendly” but was, IMO,
>> more of a “server” O/S, even W2K Workstation.
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:23 PM
>>
>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
>> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>>
>>
>>
>> Funny, it was my user OS since pre-beta.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you speaking of the NT “family”, or strictly the versions of the same
>> codebase named “NT”?
>>
>>
>>
>> -sc
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:29 AM
>>
>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
>> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>>
>>
>>
>> True… but NT was not a “user” operating system. J
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM
>>
>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
>> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>>
>>
>>
>> This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading
>> Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).
>>
>>
>>
>> That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released
>> version (v3.1 back in 1993)
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM
>>
>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
>> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>>
>>
>>
>> Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in
>> “userspace” unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of
>> software.
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM
>>
>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
>> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you understand that model to be?
>>
>>
>>
>> -sc
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM
>>
>> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
>> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>>
>>
>>
>> Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression that
>> Mac OS/X was significantly **more* *secure than a comparable Windows
>> machine, due to the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying
>> to learn, not trying to start  a Mac Vs. Windows thread (there are enough of
>> those, that I don’t need to start one! )
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>>
>> ~   ~
>>
>> ---
>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>
>>  ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>>
>> ---
>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>>
>> ---
>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>>
>> ---
>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or se

Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Don Ely]

U...  really?!?!  Both NT4 and 2k were written off of the same code
base...  2k3 and XP as well...


On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:34 AM, John Aldrich
wrote:

>  Strictly NT. Windows 2000 was much more “user friendly” but was, IMO,
> more of a “server” O/S, even W2K Workstation.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:23 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Funny, it was my user OS since pre-beta.
>
>
>
> Are you speaking of the NT “family”, or strictly the versions of the same
> codebase named “NT”?
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:29 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> True… but NT was not a “user” operating system. J
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading
> Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).
>
>
>
> That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released
> version (v3.1 back in 1993)
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in
> “userspace” unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of
> software.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> What do you understand that model to be?
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression that
> Mac OS/X was significantly **more* *secure than a comparable Windows
> machine, due to the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying
> to learn, not trying to start  a Mac Vs. Windows thread (there are enough of
> those, that I don’t need to start one! )
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
>  ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
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>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Jonathan Link]

Your understanding is flawed.

None of my users ran as administrators in the school I had on NT.  The
applications might've wanted to run as admin, but I was able to get around
it in every case.  It's the sysadmin's job, after all.

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:33 PM, John Aldrich
wrote:

>  I think you’re trying to overcomplicate things. All I meant is that the
> end-user normally runs as a non-privileged user and so any application they
> run is going to run as a non-privileged user. Windows has had that ability
> since the NT days, but has it really been usable? IME, no. Most applications
> (other than Office) wanted to run as an admin, at least up until recent
> vintages of Windows.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:22 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> And we need to define what he means by “userspace”… as that infers that his
> statement means he believes admin-owned processes run in… kernel space?
>
>
>
> If so, that’s an incorrect understanding.
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading
> Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).
>
>
>
> That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released
> version (v3.1 back in 1993)
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in
> “userspace” unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of
> software.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> What do you understand that model to be?
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression that
> Mac OS/X was significantly **more* *secure than a comparable Windows
> machine, due to the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying
> to learn, not trying to start  a Mac Vs. Windows thread (there are enough of
> those, that I don’t need to start one! )
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
>  ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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RE: Mac and Windows mix

[Steven M. Caesare]

C'mon... everybody does it.

 

I just buy myself a nice dinner first.

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Mac and Windows mix

 

You date yourself?!?!?  Interesting place to come out...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
wrote:

+1

 

And user rights assignments. And granularity for ACL's.

 

The NT executive kernel supports a superset of the primitives needed by
either the Win32 protected mode subsystem, or UNIX. This is why you
can(could) run UNIX or Win32 processes atop the same underlying kernel.
(And OS/2 as well, but I'm dating myself).

 

-sc

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:42 AM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

User vs Administrator privileges are only one small part of a security
model. In fact, Windows has many individual security rights, so "user"
versus "administrator" is a somewhat pointless comparison.

 

How do you ACL files, ports, threads, memory?

 

How do processes protect themselves from other processes?

 

The typical NTFS file ACLs are far more granular than typical *Nix
permissions. And that's just the DACLs, not including the SACLs.


Cheers

Ken

 

From: Mayo, Bill [mailto:bem...@pittcountync.gov] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11:38 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Therefore, I don't think you can realistically compare the security
model of *nix to NT.

 

Bill Mayo

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ 


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Re: Mac and Windows mix

[Don Ely]

LUA has been around for ages.  A lot of places "had" to find a way to work
within the framework of LUA.  I think the last time I worked somewhere that
users had admin access to their PC's was 1999 or so...

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:33 AM, John Aldrich
wrote:

>  I think you’re trying to overcomplicate things. All I meant is that the
> end-user normally runs as a non-privileged user and so any application they
> run is going to run as a non-privileged user. Windows has had that ability
> since the NT days, but has it really been usable? IME, no. Most applications
> (other than Office) wanted to run as an admin, at least up until recent
> vintages of Windows.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:22 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> And we need to define what he means by “userspace”… as that infers that his
> statement means he believes admin-owned processes run in… kernel space?
>
>
>
> If so, that’s an incorrect understanding.
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading
> Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).
>
>
>
> That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released
> version (v3.1 back in 1993)
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in
> “userspace” unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of
> software.
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> What do you understand that model to be?
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Mac and Windows mix
>
>
>
> Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression that
> Mac OS/X was significantly **more* *secure than a comparable Windows
> machine, due to the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying
> to learn, not trying to start  a Mac Vs. Windows thread (there are enough of
> those, that I don’t need to start one! )
>
>
>
> [image: John-Aldrich][image: Perception_2]
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
>  ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin<><>

RE: Mac and Windows mix

[John Aldrich]

Strictly NT. Windows 2000 was much more "user friendly" but was, IMO, more
of a "server" O/S, even W2K Workstation.

 

John-AldrichPerception_2

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:23 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Funny, it was my user OS since pre-beta.

 

Are you speaking of the NT "family", or strictly the versions of the same
codebase named "NT"?

 

-sc

 

From: John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:29 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

True. but NT was not a "user" operating system. J

 

John-AldrichPerception_2

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:27 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

This is only one, tiny, aspect of implementing a security model (reading
Windows Internals by Russinovich/Solomon is highly recommended).

 

That said, Windows NT has had the same model since the first released
version (v3.1 back in 1993)

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 2010 10:13 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Basically, that users are not admins and that everything runs in "userspace"
unless specifically run as an admin, including installation of software.

 

John-AldrichPerception_2

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

What do you understand that model to be?

 

-sc

 

From: John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:15 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Mac and Windows mix

 

Not to start a flame war or anything, but I was under the impression that
Mac OS/X was significantly *more* secure than a comparable Windows machine,
due to the *nix security model? Asking for information here, trying to
learn, not trying to start  a Mac Vs. Windows thread (there are enough of
those, that I don't need to start one! )

 

John-AldrichPerception_2

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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