RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Erik Goldoff]

+1
Back in the NT 4.0 days when interviewing candidates I'd ask them the first 
thing they'd check if a user could not login due to a 'domain controller cannot 
be found' type error.
Amazing how many would jump directly to the more 'sophisticated' layers, check 
domain controller, IP Stack, WINS, etc 
To me the ONLY correct answer for the FIRST thing to check is:  Check the 
Ethernet cable !  ( in my experience over 90% of these type errors were from 
the ether net cable either being unplugged or damaged )


Erik Goldoff
IT  Consultant
Systems, Networks, & Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '


-Original Message-
From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 9:23 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

Normalisation is used for data integrity not efficiency.

And whilst there aren't many practical implementations of OSI, the concept of a 
layered approach to networking (physical link, node addressing, routing, 
session control) is very useful in design and diagnosing problems.

Cheers
Ken


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Kurt Buff]

On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 18:22, Ken Schaefer  wrote:
> Normalisation is used for data integrity not efficiency.

Excuse me - yes, you are correct, especially levels beyond first
normal form. But, my point stands. It's actually used.

> And whilst there aren't many practical implementations of OSI, the concept of
> a layered approach to networking (physical link, node addressing, routing,
> session control) is very useful in design and diagnosing problems.

The 4-layer TCP/IP model has layers too, and is a more accurate
representation of how things work - in general. Neither is perfect, of
course.

But there are drawbacks to a layered approach as well. RFC 3439,
section 3, (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3439.txt) discusses some of
those drawbacks.

Kurt

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Ken Schaefer]

Normalisation is used for data integrity not efficiency.

And whilst there aren't many practical implementations of OSI, the concept of a 
layered approach to networking (physical link, node addressing, routing, 
session control) is very useful in design and diagnosing problems.

Cheers
Ken

-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 30 May 2010 6:03 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

Normalization is not an incorrect model for designing and implementing 
databases - it's actually used and useful. Achieving first normal form or 
second normal form is not hard, and leads to efficiencies, and is used every 
day, even if further normalization isn't used as much.

Aside from X.400, it's hard, if not impossible, to cite an actual 
implementation of the OSI model.

Kurt

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 21:47, Ken Schaefer  wrote:
> Agreed.
>
> You don't need to know OSI to be able to put some network infrastructure 
> together. You don't need to know normalisation to design a database. You 
> don't need to know OOP to write an application. But all of this theory is 
> quite useful in doing things in a better way, because they provide frameworks 
> that have been around for a long time, which many people are familiar with, 
> and which haven't been replaced with something better yet. And as you acquire 
> new knowledge, they provide the background info that lets you see how it all 
> hangs together.
>
> Cheers
> Ken
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 10:01 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - 
> Anyone seen this?
>
> It all comes down to this :
>
> The OSI model is part of the 'fundamental' knowledge.  It's not 100% required 
> to learn concepts above and more accurate, but it *does* provide a great 
> background for learning and applying the knowledge you do gain.
>
>
> Erik Goldoff
> IT  Consultant
> Systems, Networks, & Security
>
> '  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:54 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - 
> Anyone seen this?
>
> OSI, per se, doesn't help anyone do anything.
>
> But it provides a framework, so that when you're discussing some problem with 
> another engineer/architect/PM and they say "why don't we do 'x'?" you can 
> draw up something quick and say:
>  "the problem is here:
>
> +-
> |     <- what you are talking about
> +-
> |
> +-
> |       <-problem is here
> +-
>
> This can help when architecting an encryption solution, or when you're 
> troubleshooting some network issue. It provides a hierarchy of requirements 
> (upper levels are not going to work if something lower in the stack isn't).
>
> Cheers
> Ken
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Kurt Buff]

Normalization is not an incorrect model for designing and implementing
databases - it's actually used and useful. Achieving first normal form
or second normal form is not hard, and leads to efficiencies, and is
used every day, even if further normalization isn't used as much.

Aside from X.400, it's hard, if not impossible, to cite an actual
implementation of the OSI model.

Kurt

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 21:47, Ken Schaefer  wrote:
> Agreed.
>
> You don't need to know OSI to be able to put some network infrastructure 
> together. You don't need to know normalisation to design a database. You 
> don't need to know OOP to write an application. But all of this theory is 
> quite useful in doing things in a better way, because they provide frameworks 
> that have been around for a long time, which many people are familiar with, 
> and which haven't been replaced with something better yet. And as you acquire 
> new knowledge, they provide the background info that lets you see how it all 
> hangs together.
>
> Cheers
> Ken
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 10:01 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - 
> Anyone seen this?
>
> It all comes down to this :
>
> The OSI model is part of the 'fundamental' knowledge.  It's not 100% required 
> to learn concepts above and more accurate, but it *does* provide a great 
> background for learning and applying the knowledge you do gain.
>
>
> Erik Goldoff
> IT  Consultant
> Systems, Networks, & Security
>
> '  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '
>
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:54 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - 
> Anyone seen this?
>
> OSI, per se, doesn't help anyone do anything.
>
> But it provides a framework, so that when you're discussing some problem with 
> another engineer/architect/PM and they say "why don't we do 'x'?" you can 
> draw up something quick and say:
>  "the problem is here:
>
> +-
> |     <- what you are talking about
> +-
> |
> +-
> |       <-problem is here
> +-
>
> This can help when architecting an encryption solution, or when you're 
> troubleshooting some network issue. It provides a hierarchy of requirements 
> (upper levels are not going to work if something lower in the stack isn't).
>
> Cheers
> Ken
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 11:10 AM, David Lum  wrote:
> Understanding databases falls into the same category in my opinion.

  We use an app here where I keep envisioning me calling up the
salesweasel like this:

Me: Hey, do you know what database normalization is?
Salesdroid: No...
Me: Neither do your programmers!

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[David Lum]

Understanding databases falls into the same category in my opinion. Some things 
I run into I can make sense of only because of days of using dBase IV to 
catalog and categorize my albums. Knowing the difference between a record and a 
row is sometimes the difference between comprehending it or not, for example.

Dave

-Original Message-
From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:01 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

It all comes down to this :

The OSI model is part of the 'fundamental' knowledge.  It's not 100% required 
to learn concepts above and more accurate, but it *does* provide a great 
background for learning and applying the knowledge you do gain.


Erik Goldoff
IT  Consultant
Systems, Networks, & Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '


-Original Message-
From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:54 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

OSI, per se, doesn't help anyone do anything.

But it provides a framework, so that when you're discussing some problem with 
another engineer/architect/PM and they say "why don't we do 'x'?" you can draw 
up something quick and say:
 "the problem is here:

+-
| <- what you are talking about
+-
|
+-
|   <-problem is here
+- 

This can help when architecting an encryption solution, or when you're 
troubleshooting some network issue. It provides a hierarchy of requirements 
(upper levels are not going to work if something lower in the stack isn't).

Cheers
Ken


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Phillip Partipilo]

And it's so flippin amazing how many times I get distracted and called off to 
some problem where often my first line of defense when some brown matter is 
hitting the fan, is simply start with an easy reboot, and so often that’s all 
that’s required. You'd think users would figure this out before panicking and 
picking up the phone.


Phillip Partipilo
Parametric Solutions Inc.
Jupiter, Florida
(561) 747-6107



-Original Message-
From: greg.swe...@actsconsulting.net [mailto:greg.swe...@actsconsulting.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:18 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

I have told some of my guys that it’s the karate kid methodology.

If you don’t have connectivity.

Check the cable, check link, check errors on switch...
Cant ping, check IP, check subnet, check gateway
Etc etc etc...

Wax on, wax off
Paint the fence
Sand the floor
Next thing you know you are doing karate  or checking out networks..

Not completely accurate, but it wasn’t the best example of karate either..
Greg

-Original Message-
From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 12:47 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

Agreed.

You don't need to know OSI to be able to put some network infrastructure 
together. You don't need to know normalisation to design a database. You don't 
need to know OOP to write an application. But all of this theory is quite 
useful in doing things in a better way, because they provide frameworks that 
have been around for a long time, which many people are familiar with, and 
which haven't been replaced with something better yet. And as you acquire new 
knowledge, they provide the background info that lets you see how it all hangs 
together.

Cheers
Ken

-Original Message-
From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 10:01 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

It all comes down to this :

The OSI model is part of the 'fundamental' knowledge.  It's not 100% required 
to learn concepts above and more accurate, but it *does* provide a great 
background for learning and applying the knowledge you do gain.


Erik Goldoff
IT  Consultant
Systems, Networks, & Security

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '


-Original Message-
From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:54 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

OSI, per se, doesn't help anyone do anything.

But it provides a framework, so that when you're discussing some problem with 
another engineer/architect/PM and they say "why don't we do 'x'?" you can draw 
up something quick and say:
 "the problem is here:

+-
| <- what you are talking about
+-
|
+-
|   <-problem is here
+-

This can help when architecting an encryption solution, or when you're 
troubleshooting some network issue. It provides a hierarchy of requirements 
(upper levels are not going to work if something lower in the stack isn't).

Cheers
Ken


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Andy Shook]

...said Steven.

Shook

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:02 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

This thread is surprisingly subdued.

-sc

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:58 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I don't think this will produce anything substantive..

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

No, he means subversion.

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:53 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Don't you mean subtraction? ;)

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Subjection skills ain't what they used to be.

-sc

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

What? That can subject 2 from 32? :)

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

-sc

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back in 
the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does that 
count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have to think "okay a 
.128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX records, 
Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you "jack of all trades" 
firewall info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to town on 
registry, AD and GPO design as well as give examples of being able to handle a 
near vertical learning curve. Am I hired?

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not necessarily using 
$30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the "I've got 
certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring something out and at those times 
word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number of 
people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that it's 
very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate 
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross that 
the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid inflated 
salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver tangible/measurable 
results. One only needs to look at project delivery in large corporations, and 
at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to do tasks in a manual 
manner (this list included has people who have the time to spend working out 
the best way to do some task for an individual user, yet they must get paid 
$30-60k, which no other industry would accept).

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for mediocrity 
to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are merely average, 
you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of "IT" - or you might be 
part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a 6-7 figure earner, 
then you'll need to provide ever increasing levels of business value, just like 
every other industry (with the possible exception of Sales, where a really good 
pitch can make up for lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and 
delivery :) )

Cheers
Ken

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they 
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an OSI 
model.

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the ideas 
of process, threads, m

RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[greg.sweers]

I have told some of my guys that it’s the karate kid methodology.

If you don’t have connectivity.

Check the cable, check link, check errors on switch...
Cant ping, check IP, check subnet, check gateway
Etc etc etc...

Wax on, wax off
Paint the fence
Sand the floor
Next thing you know you are doing karate  or checking out networks..

Not completely accurate, but it wasn’t the best example of karate either..
Greg

-Original Message-
From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 12:47 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

Agreed.

You don't need to know OSI to be able to put some network infrastructure 
together. You don't need to know normalisation to design a database. You don't 
need to know OOP to write an application. But all of this theory is quite 
useful in doing things in a better way, because they provide frameworks that 
have been around for a long time, which many people are familiar with, and 
which haven't been replaced with something better yet. And as you acquire new 
knowledge, they provide the background info that lets you see how it all hangs 
together.

Cheers
Ken

-Original Message-
From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 10:01 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

It all comes down to this :

The OSI model is part of the 'fundamental' knowledge.  It's not 100% required 
to learn concepts above and more accurate, but it *does* provide a great 
background for learning and applying the knowledge you do gain.


Erik Goldoff
IT  Consultant
Systems, Networks, & Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '


-Original Message-
From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:54 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

OSI, per se, doesn't help anyone do anything.

But it provides a framework, so that when you're discussing some problem with 
another engineer/architect/PM and they say "why don't we do 'x'?" you can draw 
up something quick and say:
 "the problem is here:

+-
| <- what you are talking about
+-
|
+-
|   <-problem is here
+-

This can help when architecting an encryption solution, or when you're 
troubleshooting some network issue. It provides a hierarchy of requirements 
(upper levels are not going to work if something lower in the stack isn't).

Cheers
Ken


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Ken Schaefer]

Agreed.

You don't need to know OSI to be able to put some network infrastructure 
together. You don't need to know normalisation to design a database. You don't 
need to know OOP to write an application. But all of this theory is quite 
useful in doing things in a better way, because they provide frameworks that 
have been around for a long time, which many people are familiar with, and 
which haven't been replaced with something better yet. And as you acquire new 
knowledge, they provide the background info that lets you see how it all hangs 
together.

Cheers
Ken

-Original Message-
From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 10:01 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

It all comes down to this :

The OSI model is part of the 'fundamental' knowledge.  It's not 100% required 
to learn concepts above and more accurate, but it *does* provide a great 
background for learning and applying the knowledge you do gain.


Erik Goldoff
IT  Consultant
Systems, Networks, & Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '


-Original Message-
From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:54 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

OSI, per se, doesn't help anyone do anything.

But it provides a framework, so that when you're discussing some problem with 
another engineer/architect/PM and they say "why don't we do 'x'?" you can draw 
up something quick and say:
 "the problem is here:

+-
| <- what you are talking about
+-
|
+-
|   <-problem is here
+-

This can help when architecting an encryption solution, or when you're 
troubleshooting some network issue. It provides a hierarchy of requirements 
(upper levels are not going to work if something lower in the stack isn't).

Cheers
Ken


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Erik Goldoff]

It all comes down to this :

The OSI model is part of the 'fundamental' knowledge.  It's not 100% required 
to learn concepts above and more accurate, but it *does* provide a great 
background for learning and applying the knowledge you do gain.


Erik Goldoff
IT  Consultant
Systems, Networks, & Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '


-Original Message-
From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:54 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone 
seen this?

OSI, per se, doesn't help anyone do anything.

But it provides a framework, so that when you're discussing some problem with 
another engineer/architect/PM and they say "why don't we do 'x'?" you can draw 
up something quick and say:
 "the problem is here:

+-
| <- what you are talking about
+-
|
+-
|   <-problem is here
+- 

This can help when architecting an encryption solution, or when you're 
troubleshooting some network issue. It provides a hierarchy of requirements 
(upper levels are not going to work if something lower in the stack isn't).

Cheers
Ken


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Ken Schaefer]

OSI, per se, doesn't help anyone do anything.

But it provides a framework, so that when you're discussing some problem with 
another engineer/architect/PM and they say "why don't we do 'x'?" you can draw 
up something quick and say:
 "the problem is here:

+-
| <- what you are talking about
+-
|
+-
|   <-problem is here
+- 

This can help when architecting an encryption solution, or when you're 
troubleshooting some network issue. It provides a hierarchy of requirements 
(upper levels are not going to work if something lower in the stack isn't).

Cheers
Ken

-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 7:16 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen 
this?

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 09:21, Ken Schaefer  wrote:
> It’s kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any 
> number of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I 
> think that it’s very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT 
> career)

Mr. Ely, among others, will shake his head here...

The OSI model *is* irrelevant, because it's incorrect. Teh interwebs (and 
everything else) don't conform to it.

The 4 layer TCP/IP model is closer to reality, though still not completely 
accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP/IP_model

Kurt

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Steven M. Caesare]

As a conceptual process it's useful even if, as has long been the case, many 
applications map several layers in to a single functional block in their 
architecture.

-sc

-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:16 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen 
this?

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 09:21, Ken Schaefer  wrote:
> It’s kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any 
> number of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I 
> think that it’s very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT 
> career)

Mr. Ely, among others, will shake his head here...

The OSI model *is* irrelevant, because it's incorrect. Teh interwebs (and 
everything else) don't conform to it.

The 4 layer TCP/IP model is closer to reality, though still not completely 
accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP/IP_model

Kurt

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[greg.sweers]

I would like to substantiate this conversation but my subordinate has pointed 
out we have surpassed even our normal superlative tardiness.

From: Crawford, Scott [mailto:crawfo...@evangel.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 4:42 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Makes me question my subscription.

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Some of the message was subliminal. Oh wait, this isn't admin_misc is it? Here 
comes Stu...

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:58 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I don't think this will produce anything substantive..

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

No, he means subversion.

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:53 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Don't you mean subtraction? ;)

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Subjection skills ain't what they used to be.

-sc

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

What? That can subject 2 from 32? :)

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

-sc

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back in 
the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does that 
count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have to think "okay a 
.128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX records, 
Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you "jack of all trades" 
firewall info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to town on 
registry, AD and GPO design as well as give examples of being able to handle a 
near vertical learning curve. Am I hired?

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not necessarily using 
$30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the "I've got 
certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring something out and at those times 
word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number of 
people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that it's 
very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate 
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross that 
the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid inflated 
salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver tangible/measurable 
results. One only needs to look at project delivery in large corporations, and 
at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to do tasks in a manual 
manner (this list included has people who have the time to spend working out 
the best way to do some task for an individual user, yet they must get paid 
$30-60k, which no other industry would accept).

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for mediocrity 
to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are merely average, 
you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of "IT" - or you might be 
part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a 6-7 figure earner, 
then you'll need to provide ever increasing levels of business value, just like 
every other industry (with the possible exception of Sales, where a really good 
pitch can make up for lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and 
delivery :) )

Cheers
Ken

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Jon Harris]

Too bad by then the company maybe headed into the drain.  Especially if they
had someone running a keylogger (too verify that the employees were keying
the correct things in) on a cash register, with their choice of software
being some thing they got off the web.  I heard about that from a consulting
company I talked to a few months ago.  They got canned because the IT
manager/computer guy was upset about them removing the software and
informing upper management about ALL the other stuff the keystroke logger
had attached to it that was running.

Jon

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Angus Scott-Fleming
wrote:

> On 26 May 2010 at 9:52, Erik Goldoff  wrote:
>
> > The sad truth of the matter, especially as relates to WinTel
> > technologies: The good thing is that almost anyone can install a Windows
> > operating system and Windows applications. But the bad thing is that
> almost
> > anyone can install a Windows operating system and Windows applications.
> The
> > hard thing is to do it correctly, securely, and efficiently !
>
> In business the 80/20 law applies, as everywhere.  If they can get 80% of
> the
> desired results (installing software) for 20% of the cost (no IT staff),
> many
> business owners will stop there.  It's only when they get bit hard by a
> security breach or lost data that they start realizing they need more than
> the
> 20% they've paid for.
>
> --
> Angus Scott-Fleming
> GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
> 1-520-290-5038
> Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>  ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Veering even more OT - was: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Kurt Buff]

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 09:21, Ken Schaefer  wrote:
> It’s kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number
> of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that
> it’s very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

Mr. Ely, among others, will shake his head here...

The OSI model *is* irrelevant, because it's incorrect. Teh interwebs
(and everything else) don't conform to it.

The 4 layer TCP/IP model is closer to reality, though still not
completely accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP/IP_model

Kurt

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Kurt Buff]

Programming is the one area of expertise I miss in my toolset the
most. I know I'm not a programmer, and don't pretend to be one, and it
does hold me back on occasion.

But kids these days...

Kurt

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 06:45, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> A kid I know graduated last year with a degree in "Systems Engineering" from 
> one of the best-known public universities (at least on the east coast). And 
> he did fairly well.
>
> He disliked his first job and has been job hunting. He went to a technical 
> interview last week and they asked him to write a small program to read in a 
> string of characters - all 1's and 0' - and convert it into binary and then 
> display the ASCII text. He failed it.
>
> He asked me to explain it to him, which I did and we made it work (well, I 
> gave him pseudo-code and made HIM make it work), but it turned out that he 
> had no real concept of binary. It had never come up in his schooling and he 
> said what he read on Google didn't help. HAH.
>
> In later conversation he told me he got through most of his degree and his 
> first job by finding code on the web and minimally adapting it to his needs - 
> never understanding what some of it did.
>
> I just had to shake my head.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael B. Smith
> Consultant and Exchange MVP
> http://TheEssentialExchange.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:30 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
> That's rich. A series of bald statements that the world as we know it will 
> end, with no evidence.
>
> Somewhat apropos of this, the current (June 2010) issue of ;login magazine 
> has an article titled "Programming with Technological Ritual and Alchemy" and 
> is well worth a read. It's an observation by a CS professor who notes that 
> his current students are much less inclined to actually understand the way 
> things work, and to simply produce mashups, according to some ill-defined 
> rituals. It's a fascinating read.
>
> Kurt
>
> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 20:51, Angus Scott-Fleming  
> wrote:
>> Sometimes you have to wonder ...
>>
>> ---fwd--
>> = Included Stuff Follows = Big Changes Ahead
>> for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community
>>
>>    This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article
>> is
>>    titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
>>    By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
>>    May 21, 2010
>>
>>    Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
>>    go away. READ MORE...
>>
>> = Included Stuff Ends = More here with links:
>> http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70
>> 058F2260 825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A
>>
>>    Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that
>> less than
>>    25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
>>    working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and
>> IT
>>    activities will devolve to business units and will become
>> consolidated
>>    with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will
>> be a
>>    knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy
>> IT apps
>>    and technology.
>>
>>    Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
>>  end of forward -
>>    http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
>>    --
>>    Angus Scott-Fleming
>>    GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
>>    1-520-290-5038
>>    Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
>> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Steven M. Caesare]

I think it's the "from" that kills ya.

 

;)

 

-sc

 

 

 

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:37 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

This is my story, and I'm sticking to it:

 

-verb (used with object) 

23. 

to bring under domination, control, or influence (usually fol. by to). 

24. 

to bring under dominion, rule, or authority, as of a conqueror or a
governing power (usually fol. by to). 

25. 

to cause to undergo the action of something specified; expose (usually
fol. by to): to subject metal to intense heat. 

26. 

to make liable or vulnerable; lay open; expose (usually fol. by to): to
subject oneself to ridicule. 

27. 

Obsolete. to place beneath something; make subjacent. 

 

 

Regards,

 

Michael B. Smith

Consultant and Exchange MVP

http://TheEssentialExchange.com

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:58 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Ask MBS, J

 

-sc

 

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:53 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Don't you mean subtraction? ;)

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Subjection skills ain't what they used to be.

 

-sc

 

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

What? That can subject 2 from 32? J

 

Regards,

 

Michael B. Smith

Consultant and Exchange MVP

http://TheEssentialExchange.com

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was
back in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of
it, does that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have
to think "okay a .128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and
forwarding, MX records, Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations,
and give you "jack of all trades" firewall info, conceptualize memory
protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and GPO design as well
as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical learning curve.
Am I hired?

 

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not
necessarily using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I
surpass the "I've got certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring
something out and at those times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on
balance it works out.

 

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any
number of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I
think that it's very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT
career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least,
regulate costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for
the dross that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people
being paid inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to
deliver tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project
delivery in large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated
people who manage to do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has
people who have the time to spend working out the best way to do some
task for an individual user, yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no
other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
merely average, you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of
"IT" - or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want
to be a 6-7 figure earner, then you'll need to provide ever increasing
levels of business value, just like every other industry (with the
possible exception of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for
lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and deli

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Steven M. Caesare]

This thread is surprisingly subdued.

 

-sc

 

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:58 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I don't think this will produce anything substantive..

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

No, he means subversion.

 

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:53 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Don't you mean subtraction? ;)

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Subjection skills ain't what they used to be.

 

-sc

 

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

What? That can subject 2 from 32? J

 

Regards,

 

Michael B. Smith

Consultant and Exchange MVP

http://TheEssentialExchange.com

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was
back in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of
it, does that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have
to think "okay a .128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and
forwarding, MX records, Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations,
and give you "jack of all trades" firewall info, conceptualize memory
protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and GPO design as well
as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical learning curve.
Am I hired?

 

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not
necessarily using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I
surpass the "I've got certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring
something out and at those times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on
balance it works out.

 

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any
number of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I
think that it's very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT
career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least,
regulate costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for
the dross that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people
being paid inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to
deliver tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project
delivery in large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated
people who manage to do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has
people who have the time to spend working out the best way to do some
task for an individual user, yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no
other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
merely average, you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of
"IT" - or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want
to be a 6-7 figure earner, then you'll need to provide ever increasing
levels of business value, just like every other industry (with the
possible exception of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for
lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and delivery J )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment 

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Michael B. Smith]

This is my story, and I'm sticking to it:

-verb (used with object)
23.
to bring under domination, control, or influence (usually fol. by to).
24.
to bring under dominion, rule, or authority, as of a conqueror or a governing 
power (usually fol. by to).
25.
to cause to undergo the action of something specified; expose (usually fol. by 
to): to subject metal to intense heat.
26.
to make liable or vulnerable; lay open; expose (usually fol. by to): to subject 
oneself to ridicule.
27.
Obsolete. to place beneath something; make subjacent.


Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:58 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Ask MBS, :)

-sc

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:53 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Don't you mean subtraction? ;)

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Subjection skills ain't what they used to be.

-sc

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

What? That can subject 2 from 32? :)

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

-sc

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back in 
the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does that 
count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have to think "okay a 
.128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX records, 
Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you "jack of all trades" 
firewall info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to town on 
registry, AD and GPO design as well as give examples of being able to handle a 
near vertical learning curve. Am I hired?

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not necessarily using 
$30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the "I've got 
certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring something out and at those times 
word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number of 
people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that it's 
very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate 
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross that 
the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid inflated 
salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver tangible/measurable 
results. One only needs to look at project delivery in large corporations, and 
at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to do tasks in a manual 
manner (this list included has people who have the time to spend working out 
the best way to do some task for an individual user, yet they must get paid 
$30-60k, which no other industry would accept).

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for mediocrity 
to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are merely average, 
you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of "IT" - or you might be 
part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a 6-7 figure earner, 
then you'll need to provide ever increasing levels of business value, just like 
every other industry (with the possible exception of Sales, where a really good 
pitch can make up for lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and 
delivery :) )

Cheers
Ken

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they 
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had 

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Crawford, Scott]

Makes me question my subscription.

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Some of the message was subliminal. Oh wait, this isn't admin_misc is
it? Here comes Stu...

 

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:58 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I don't think this will produce anything substantive..

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

No, he means subversion.

 

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:53 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Don't you mean subtraction? ;)

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Subjection skills ain't what they used to be.

 

-sc

 

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

What? That can subject 2 from 32? J

 

Regards,

 

Michael B. Smith

Consultant and Exchange MVP

http://TheEssentialExchange.com

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was
back in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of
it, does that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have
to think "okay a .128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and
forwarding, MX records, Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations,
and give you "jack of all trades" firewall info, conceptualize memory
protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and GPO design as well
as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical learning curve.
Am I hired?

 

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not
necessarily using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I
surpass the "I've got certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring
something out and at those times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on
balance it works out.

 

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any
number of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I
think that it's very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT
career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least,
regulate costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for
the dross that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people
being paid inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to
deliver tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project
delivery in large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated
people who manage to do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has
people who have the time to spend working out the best way to do some
task for an individual user, yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no
other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
merely average, you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of
"IT" - or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want
to be a 6-7 figure earner, then you'll need to provide ever increasing
levels of business value, just like every other industry (with the
possible exception of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for
lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and delivery J )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Richard Stovall]

Old guys?

:-)

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Malcolm Reitz wrote:

> Same here. Who calls IT “data processing” anymore? ;-)
>
>
>
> -Malcolm
>
>
>
> *From:* Free, Bob [mailto:r...@pge.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 13:25
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> +1
>
>
>
> brings up very old memories :-]
>
>
>
> *From:* Don Kuhlman [mailto:drkuhl...@yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:41 AM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> I like that one - I learned it the other way around :0
>
> AllApplication
>
> PeoplePresentation
>
> Seem  Session
>
> ToTransport
>
> Need   Network
>
> DataData/LLC
>
> ProcessingPhysical
>
>
>
> Don K
> --------------
>
> *From:* "greg.swe...@actsconsulting.net" 
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues 
> *Sent:* Wed, May 26, 2010 12:25:09 PM
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
> PleasePhysical
>
> Do  Data/LLC
>
> NotNetwork
>
> Throw   Transport
>
> Sausage   Session
>
> Pizza  Presentation
>
> Away Application
>
>
>
> You will never fail the basic again.  Now what each does.. J
>
>
>
> *From:* David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back
> in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does
> that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I’d have to think
> “okay a .128 mask is 25 bits…”. I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX
> records, Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you “jack of
> all trades” firewall info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to
> town on registry, AD and GPO design as well as give examples of being able
> to handle a near vertical learning curve. Am I hired?
>
>
>
> The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I’m not necessarily
> using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the
> “I’ve got certs but no real IT skills” Joe at figuring something out and at
> those times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.
>
>
>
> That’s my story I’m stickin’ to it.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> It’s kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number
> of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that
> it’s very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)
>
>
>
> Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate
> costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross
> that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid
> inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver
> tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project delivery in
> large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to
> do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has people who have the time
> to spend working out the best way to do some task for an individual user,
> yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no other industry would accept).
>
>
>
> As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
> mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
> merely average, you’ll earn an average salary, and you won’t be part of “IT”
> – or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a
> 6-7 figure earner, then you’ll need to provide ever increasing levels of
> business value, just like every other industry (with the possible exception
> of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for lack of substance, but
> let’s not confuse sales and delivery J )
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> I’ve di

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Malcolm Reitz]

Same here. Who calls IT “data processing” anymore? ;-)

 

-Malcolm

 

From: Free, Bob [mailto:r...@pge.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 13:25
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

+1

 

brings up very old memories :-]

 

From: Don Kuhlman [mailto:drkuhl...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:41 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I like that one - I learned it the other way around :0

AllApplication

PeoplePresentation

Seem  Session

ToTransport

Need   Network

DataData/LLC

ProcessingPhysical

 

Don K

  _  

From: "greg.swe...@actsconsulting.net" 
To: NT System Admin Issues 
Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 12:25:09 PM
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

PleasePhysical

Do  Data/LLC

NotNetwork

Throw   Transport

Sausage   Session

Pizza  Presentation

Away Application

 

You will never fail the basic again.  Now what each does.. J

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back in 
the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does that 
count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I’d have to think “okay a 
.128 mask is 25 bits…”. I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX records, Aliases, 
HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you “jack of all trades” firewall 
info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and 
GPO design as well as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical 
learning curve. Am I hired?

 

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I’m not necessarily using 
$30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the “I’ve got 
certs but no real IT skills” Joe at figuring something out and at those times 
word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.

 

That’s my story I’m stickin’ to it.

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It’s kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number of 
people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that it’s 
very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate 
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross that 
the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid inflated 
salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver tangible/measurable 
results. One only needs to look at project delivery in large corporations, and 
at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to do tasks in a manual 
manner (this list included has people who have the time to spend working out 
the best way to do some task for an individual user, yet they must get paid 
$30-60k, which no other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for mediocrity 
to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are merely average, 
you’ll earn an average salary, and you won’t be part of “IT” – or you might be 
part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a 6-7 figure earner, 
then you’ll need to provide ever increasing levels of business value, just like 
every other industry (with the possible exception of Sales, where a really good 
pitch can make up for lack of substance, but let’s not confuse sales and 
delivery J )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I’ve dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they 
couldn’t calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an OSI 
model.

 

Systems “Engineers” who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the ideas 
of process, threads, memory protection, etc… Windows Admins who are clueless 
about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization principles, 
environment variables, etc…

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Slide 10 actually nails what I see: 

 

“Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its depth 
(more employees understand how to exploit technology,

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[David Lum]

Some of the message was subliminal. Oh wait, this isn't admin_misc is it? Here 
comes Stu...

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:58 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I don't think this will produce anything substantive..

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

No, he means subversion.

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:53 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Don't you mean subtraction? ;)

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Subjection skills ain't what they used to be.

-sc

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

What? That can subject 2 from 32? :)

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

-sc

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back in 
the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does that 
count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have to think "okay a 
.128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX records, 
Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you "jack of all trades" 
firewall info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to town on 
registry, AD and GPO design as well as give examples of being able to handle a 
near vertical learning curve. Am I hired?

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not necessarily using 
$30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the "I've got 
certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring something out and at those times 
word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number of 
people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that it's 
very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate 
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross that 
the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid inflated 
salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver tangible/measurable 
results. One only needs to look at project delivery in large corporations, and 
at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to do tasks in a manual 
manner (this list included has people who have the time to spend working out 
the best way to do some task for an individual user, yet they must get paid 
$30-60k, which no other industry would accept).

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for mediocrity 
to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are merely average, 
you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of "IT" - or you might be 
part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a 6-7 figure earner, 
then you'll need to provide ever increasing levels of business value, just like 
every other industry (with the possible exception of Sales, where a really good 
pitch can make up for lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and 
delivery :) )

Cheers
Ken

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they 
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an OSI 
model.

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the ideas 
of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins who are clueless 
about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization principles, 
environment variables,

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Damien Solodow]

I don't think this will produce anything substantive..

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

No, he means subversion.

 

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:53 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Don't you mean subtraction? ;)

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Subjection skills ain't what they used to be.

 

-sc

 

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

What? That can subject 2 from 32? J

 

Regards,

 

Michael B. Smith

Consultant and Exchange MVP

http://TheEssentialExchange.com

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was
back in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of
it, does that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have
to think "okay a .128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and
forwarding, MX records, Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations,
and give you "jack of all trades" firewall info, conceptualize memory
protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and GPO design as well
as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical learning curve.
Am I hired?

 

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not
necessarily using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I
surpass the "I've got certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring
something out and at those times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on
balance it works out.

 

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any
number of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I
think that it's very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT
career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least,
regulate costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for
the dross that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people
being paid inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to
deliver tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project
delivery in large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated
people who manage to do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has
people who have the time to spend working out the best way to do some
task for an individual user, yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no
other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
merely average, you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of
"IT" - or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want
to be a 6-7 figure earner, then you'll need to provide ever increasing
levels of business value, just like every other industry (with the
possible exception of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for
lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and delivery J )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment variables, etc...

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Slide 10 actually nai

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Steven M. Caesare]

Ask MBS, :-)

 

-sc

 

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:53 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Don't you mean subtraction? ;)

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Subjection skills ain't what they used to be.

 

-sc

 

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

What? That can subject 2 from 32? :-)

 

Regards,

 

Michael B. Smith

Consultant and Exchange MVP

http://TheEssentialExchange.com

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was
back in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of
it, does that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have
to think "okay a .128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and
forwarding, MX records, Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations,
and give you "jack of all trades" firewall info, conceptualize memory
protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and GPO design as well
as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical learning curve.
Am I hired?

 

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not
necessarily using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I
surpass the "I've got certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring
something out and at those times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on
balance it works out.

 

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any
number of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I
think that it's very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT
career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least,
regulate costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for
the dross that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people
being paid inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to
deliver tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project
delivery in large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated
people who manage to do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has
people who have the time to spend working out the best way to do some
task for an individual user, yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no
other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
merely average, you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of
"IT" - or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want
to be a 6-7 figure earner, then you'll need to provide ever increasing
levels of business value, just like every other industry (with the
possible exception of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for
lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and delivery :-) )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment variables, etc...

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david....@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Slide 10 actually nails what I see: 

 

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its
depth (more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer
have deep technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point:

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Richard Stovall]

That's just your subtractive opinion.

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, Steven M. Caesare wrote:

> Subjection skills ain’t what they used to be.
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:40 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> What? That can subject 2 from 32? J
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Michael B. Smith
>
> Consultant and Exchange MVP
>
> http://TheEssentialExchange.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> I’d love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find…
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* David Lum [mailto:david....@nwea.org]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back
> in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does
> that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I’d have to think
> “okay a .128 mask is 25 bits…”. I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX
> records, Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you “jack of
> all trades” firewall info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to
> town on registry, AD and GPO design as well as give examples of being able
> to handle a near vertical learning curve. Am I hired?
>
>
>
> The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I’m not necessarily
> using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the
> “I’ve got certs but no real IT skills” Joe at figuring something out and at
> those times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.
>
>
>
> That’s my story I’m stickin’ to it.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> It’s kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number
> of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that
> it’s very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)
>
>
>
> Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate
> costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross
> that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid
> inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver
> tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project delivery in
> large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to
> do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has people who have the time
> to spend working out the best way to do some task for an individual user,
> yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no other industry would accept).
>
>
>
> As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
> mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
> merely average, you’ll earn an average salary, and you won’t be part of “IT”
> – or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a
> 6-7 figure earner, then you’ll need to provide ever increasing levels of
> business value, just like every other industry (with the possible exception
> of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for lack of substance, but
> let’s not confuse sales and delivery J )
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> I’ve dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
> couldn’t calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an
> OSI model.
>
>
>
> Systems “Engineers” who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the
> ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc… Windows Admins who are
> clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization
> principles, environment variables, etc…
>
>
>
> Tis sad.
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> Slide 10 actually nail

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[David Lum]

No, he means subversion.

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:53 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Don't you mean subtraction? ;)

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Subjection skills ain't what they used to be.

-sc

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

What? That can subject 2 from 32? :)

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

-sc

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back in 
the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does that 
count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have to think "okay a 
.128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX records, 
Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you "jack of all trades" 
firewall info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to town on 
registry, AD and GPO design as well as give examples of being able to handle a 
near vertical learning curve. Am I hired?

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not necessarily using 
$30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the "I've got 
certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring something out and at those times 
word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number of 
people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that it's 
very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate 
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross that 
the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid inflated 
salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver tangible/measurable 
results. One only needs to look at project delivery in large corporations, and 
at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to do tasks in a manual 
manner (this list included has people who have the time to spend working out 
the best way to do some task for an individual user, yet they must get paid 
$30-60k, which no other industry would accept).

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for mediocrity 
to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are merely average, 
you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of "IT" - or you might be 
part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a 6-7 figure earner, 
then you'll need to provide ever increasing levels of business value, just like 
every other industry (with the possible exception of Sales, where a really good 
pitch can make up for lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and 
delivery :) )

Cheers
Ken

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they 
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an OSI 
model.

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the ideas 
of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins who are clueless 
about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization principles, 
environment variables, etc...

Tis sad.

-sc

From: David Lum [mailto:david....@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Slide 10 actually nails what I see:

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its depth 
(more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer have deep 
technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us old timers 
understand %PATH% and that it's concept is

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Damien Solodow]

Don't you mean subtraction? ;)

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Subjection skills ain't what they used to be.

 

-sc

 

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

What? That can subject 2 from 32? J

 

Regards,

 

Michael B. Smith

Consultant and Exchange MVP

http://TheEssentialExchange.com

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was
back in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of
it, does that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have
to think "okay a .128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and
forwarding, MX records, Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations,
and give you "jack of all trades" firewall info, conceptualize memory
protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and GPO design as well
as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical learning curve.
Am I hired?

 

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not
necessarily using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I
surpass the "I've got certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring
something out and at those times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on
balance it works out.

 

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any
number of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I
think that it's very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT
career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least,
regulate costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for
the dross that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people
being paid inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to
deliver tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project
delivery in large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated
people who manage to do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has
people who have the time to spend working out the best way to do some
task for an individual user, yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no
other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
merely average, you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of
"IT" - or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want
to be a 6-7 figure earner, then you'll need to provide ever increasing
levels of business value, just like every other industry (with the
possible exception of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for
lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and delivery J )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment variables, etc...

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david....@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Slide 10 actually nails what I see: 

 

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its
depth (more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer
have deep technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us
old timers understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant
behind the scenes, how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know
what it means? 

 

Like Erik said, most anyone can i

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Steven M. Caesare]

Subjection skills ain't what they used to be.

 

-sc

 

From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

What? That can subject 2 from 32? :-)

 

Regards,

 

Michael B. Smith

Consultant and Exchange MVP

http://TheEssentialExchange.com

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was
back in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of
it, does that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have
to think "okay a .128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and
forwarding, MX records, Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations,
and give you "jack of all trades" firewall info, conceptualize memory
protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and GPO design as well
as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical learning curve.
Am I hired?

 

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not
necessarily using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I
surpass the "I've got certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring
something out and at those times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on
balance it works out.

 

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any
number of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I
think that it's very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT
career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least,
regulate costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for
the dross that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people
being paid inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to
deliver tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project
delivery in large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated
people who manage to do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has
people who have the time to spend working out the best way to do some
task for an individual user, yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no
other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
merely average, you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of
"IT" - or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want
to be a 6-7 figure earner, then you'll need to provide ever increasing
levels of business value, just like every other industry (with the
possible exception of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for
lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and delivery :-) )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment variables, etc...

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david....@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Slide 10 actually nails what I see: 

 

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its
depth (more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer
have deep technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us
old timers understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant
behind the scenes, how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know
what it means? 

 

Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications.
How many of those really understand what's going on?

 

Dave

 

From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM
To: NT System Admin

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Michael B. Smith]

What? That can subject 2 from 32? :)

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:35 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

-sc

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back in 
the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does that 
count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have to think "okay a 
.128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX records, 
Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you "jack of all trades" 
firewall info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to town on 
registry, AD and GPO design as well as give examples of being able to handle a 
near vertical learning curve. Am I hired?

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not necessarily using 
$30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the "I've got 
certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring something out and at those times 
word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number of 
people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that it's 
very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate 
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross that 
the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid inflated 
salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver tangible/measurable 
results. One only needs to look at project delivery in large corporations, and 
at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to do tasks in a manual 
manner (this list included has people who have the time to spend working out 
the best way to do some task for an individual user, yet they must get paid 
$30-60k, which no other industry would accept).

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for mediocrity 
to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are merely average, 
you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of "IT" - or you might be 
part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a 6-7 figure earner, 
then you'll need to provide ever increasing levels of business value, just like 
every other industry (with the possible exception of Sales, where a really good 
pitch can make up for lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and 
delivery :) )

Cheers
Ken

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they 
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an OSI 
model.

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the ideas 
of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins who are clueless 
about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization principles, 
environment variables, etc...

Tis sad.

-sc

From: David Lum [mailto:david....@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Slide 10 actually nails what I see:

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its depth 
(more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer have deep 
technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us old timers 
understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant behind the scenes, 
how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know what it means?

Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications. How many 
of those really understand what's going on?

Dave

From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

+1


From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

The fact is that as technology becomes more pr

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Sean Rector]

Gosh...learned that one 25+ years ago in HS...

 

Sean Rector, MCSE

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:36 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Nice... that goes right along with resistor color codes

 

-sc

 

From: greg.swe...@actsconsulting.net
[mailto:greg.swe...@actsconsulting.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:25 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

PleasePhysical

Do  Data/LLC

NotNetwork

Throw   Transport

Sausage   Session

Pizza  Presentation

Away Application

 

You will never fail the basic again.  Now what each does.. J

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was
back in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of
it, does that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have
to think "okay a .128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and
forwarding, MX records, Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations,
and give you "jack of all trades" firewall info, conceptualize memory
protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and GPO design as well
as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical learning curve.
Am I hired?

 

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not
necessarily using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I
surpass the "I've got certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring
something out and at those times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on
balance it works out.

 

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any
number of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I
think that it's very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT
career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least,
regulate costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for
the dross that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people
being paid inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to
deliver tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project
delivery in large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated
people who manage to do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has
people who have the time to spend working out the best way to do some
task for an individual user, yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no
other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
merely average, you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of
"IT" - or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want
to be a 6-7 figure earner, then you'll need to provide ever increasing
levels of business value, just like every other industry (with the
possible exception of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for
lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and delivery J )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment variables, etc...

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david....@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Slide 10 actually nails what I see: 

 

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its
depth (more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer
have deep technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us
old timers understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant
behind the scenes, how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know
what it means? 

 

Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applic

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Steven M. Caesare]

Nice... that goes right along with resistor color codes

 

-sc

 

From: greg.swe...@actsconsulting.net
[mailto:greg.swe...@actsconsulting.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:25 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

PleasePhysical

Do  Data/LLC

NotNetwork

Throw   Transport

Sausage   Session

Pizza  Presentation

Away Application

 

You will never fail the basic again.  Now what each does.. :-)

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was
back in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of
it, does that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have
to think "okay a .128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and
forwarding, MX records, Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations,
and give you "jack of all trades" firewall info, conceptualize memory
protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and GPO design as well
as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical learning curve.
Am I hired?

 

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not
necessarily using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I
surpass the "I've got certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring
something out and at those times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on
balance it works out.

 

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any
number of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I
think that it's very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT
career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least,
regulate costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for
the dross that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people
being paid inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to
deliver tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project
delivery in large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated
people who manage to do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has
people who have the time to spend working out the best way to do some
task for an individual user, yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no
other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
merely average, you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of
"IT" - or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want
to be a 6-7 figure earner, then you'll need to provide ever increasing
levels of business value, just like every other industry (with the
possible exception of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for
lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and delivery :-) )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment variables, etc...

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david....@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Slide 10 actually nails what I see: 

 

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its
depth (more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer
have deep technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us
old timers understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant
behind the scenes, how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know
what it means? 

 

Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications.
How many of those really understand what's going on?

 

Dave

 

From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyo

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Steven M. Caesare]

I'd love to have candidates with that ability. They are hard to find...

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was
back in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of
it, does that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have
to think "okay a .128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and
forwarding, MX records, Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations,
and give you "jack of all trades" firewall info, conceptualize memory
protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and GPO design as well
as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical learning curve.
Am I hired?

 

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not
necessarily using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I
surpass the "I've got certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring
something out and at those times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on
balance it works out.

 

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any
number of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I
think that it's very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT
career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least,
regulate costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for
the dross that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people
being paid inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to
deliver tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project
delivery in large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated
people who manage to do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has
people who have the time to spend working out the best way to do some
task for an individual user, yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no
other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
merely average, you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of
"IT" - or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want
to be a 6-7 figure earner, then you'll need to provide ever increasing
levels of business value, just like every other industry (with the
possible exception of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for
lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and delivery :-) )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment variables, etc...

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david....@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Slide 10 actually nails what I see: 

 

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its
depth (more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer
have deep technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us
old timers understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant
behind the scenes, how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know
what it means? 

 

Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications.
How many of those really understand what's going on?

 

Dave

 

From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

+1

 

 

From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people
desire to learn less about it.

 

The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but
rather to an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal
with even routine maintenance on a vehicle.

 

There is no reason 

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Steven M. Caesare]

Sadly, there is much truth in that.

 

-sc

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:22 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any
number of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I
think that it's very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT
career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least,
regulate costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for
the dross that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people
being paid inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to
deliver tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project
delivery in large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated
people who manage to do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has
people who have the time to spend working out the best way to do some
task for an individual user, yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no
other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
merely average, you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of
"IT" - or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want
to be a 6-7 figure earner, then you'll need to provide ever increasing
levels of business value, just like every other industry (with the
possible exception of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for
lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and delivery :-) )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment variables, etc...

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Slide 10 actually nails what I see: 

 

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its
depth (more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer
have deep technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us
old timers understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant
behind the scenes, how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know
what it means? 

 

Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications.
How many of those really understand what's going on?

 

Dave

 

From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

+1

 

 

From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people
desire to learn less about it.

 

The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but
rather to an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal
with even routine maintenance on a vehicle.

 

There is no reason to believe that this trend will not manifest itself
with computer technology.

 

In order to make things appear simple enough for the every-day user
<http://home.asbzone.com/ASB/archive/2009/11/16/where-simplicity-and-tec
hnology-really-intersect.aspx> , the complexity gets encapsulated
somewhere -- typically in the integration realm.

 

The main problem is the use of the terms "deploy IT apps" which probably
means something very different to them than it does to us.  Similar to
how people who can put together some basic macros think that they are
"programmers".


-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker

 

 
 
 
NOTICE: Florida has a broad public records law. Most written
communications to or from this entity are public records that will be
disclosed to the public and the media upon request. E-mail
communications may be subject to public disclosure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Andrew S. Baker]

Companies have caused many of these problems for themselves  based on the
training policies.

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker

Sent from my Motorola Droid

On May 26, 2010 12:22 PM, "Ken Schaefer"  wrote:

It’s kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number
of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that
it’s very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)



Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross
that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid
inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver
tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project delivery in
large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to
do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has people who have the time
to spend working out the best way to do some task for an individual user,
yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no other industry would accept).



As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
merely average, you’ll earn an average salary, and you won’t be part of “IT”
– or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a
6-7 figure earner, then you’ll need to provide ever increasing levels of
business value, just like every other industry (with the possible exception
of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for lack of substance, but
let’s not confuse sales and delivery J )



Cheers

Ken



*From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
*Sent:* Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?



I’ve dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn’t calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an
OSI model.





Systems “Engineers” who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the
ideas of process, thr...

*From:* David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?



Slide 10 actually nails what I see:





“Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its
depth (more employees ...

*From:* John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us]
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?



+1





*From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM


To: NT System Admin Issues

Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?





The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people desire to
learn less about i...

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Paul Gordon]

 

 

From: Don Kuhlman [mailto:drkuhl...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: 26 May 2010 18:41
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I remember the pizza one, but another that I always remember because it vaguely 
amuses is:

 

Princess

Diana

Never

Tried

Sh*gging

Prince

Andrew

 

 

J

 

Paul G.

 

 

 

I like that one - I learned it the other way around :0

AllApplication

PeoplePresentation

Seem  Session

ToTransport

Need   Network

DataData/LLC

ProcessingPhysical

 

Don K

  _  

From: "greg.swe...@actsconsulting.net" 
To: NT System Admin Issues 
Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 12:25:09 PM
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

PleasePhysical

Do  Data/LLC

NotNetwork

Throw   Transport

Sausage   Session

Pizza  Presentation

Away Application

 

You will never fail the basic again.  Now what each does.. J

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back in 
the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does that 
count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I’d have to think “okay a 
.128 mask is 25 bits…”. I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX records, Aliases, 
HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you “jack of all trades” firewall 
info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and 
GPO design as well as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical 
learning curve. Am I hired?

 

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I’m not necessarily using 
$30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the “I’ve got 
certs but no real IT skills” Joe at figuring something out and at those times 
word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.

 

That’s my story I’m stickin’ to it.

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It’s kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number of 
people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that it’s 
very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate 
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross that 
the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid inflated 
salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver tangible/measurable 
results. One only needs to look at project delivery in large corporations, and 
at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to do tasks in a manual 
manner (this list included has people who have the time to spend working out 
the best way to do some task for an individual user, yet they must get paid 
$30-60k, which no other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for mediocrity 
to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are merely average, 
you’ll earn an average salary, and you won’t be part of “IT” – or you might be 
part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a 6-7 figure earner, 
then you’ll need to provide ever increasing levels of business value, just like 
every other industry (with the possible exception of Sales, where a really good 
pitch can make up for lack of substance, but let’s not confuse sales and 
delivery J )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I’ve dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they 
couldn’t calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an OSI 
model.

 

Systems “Engineers” who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the ideas 
of process, threads, memory protection, etc… Windows Admins who are clueless 
about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization principles, 
environment variables, etc…

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Slide 10 actually nails what I see: 

 

“Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its depth 
(more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer have deep 
technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us old timers 
understand 

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Free, Bob]

+1

 

brings up very old memories :-]

 

From: Don Kuhlman [mailto:drkuhl...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:41 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I like that one - I learned it the other way around :0

AllApplication

PeoplePresentation

Seem  Session

ToTransport

Need   Network

DataData/LLC

ProcessingPhysical

 

Don K



From: "greg.swe...@actsconsulting.net" 
To: NT System Admin Issues 
Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 12:25:09 PM
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

PleasePhysical

Do  Data/LLC

NotNetwork

Throw   Transport

Sausage   Session

Pizza  Presentation

Away Application

 

You will never fail the basic again.  Now what each does.. J

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back in 
the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does that 
count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I’d have to think “okay a 
.128 mask is 25 bits…”. I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX records, Aliases, 
HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you “jack of all trades” firewall 
info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and 
GPO design as well as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical 
learning curve. Am I hired?

 

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I’m not necessarily using 
$30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the “I’ve got 
certs but no real IT skills” Joe at figuring something out and at those times 
word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.

 

That’s my story I’m stickin’ to it.

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It’s kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number of 
people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that it’s 
very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate 
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross that 
the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid inflated 
salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver tangible/measurable 
results. One only needs to look at project delivery in large corporations, and 
at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to do tasks in a manual 
manner (this list included has people who have the time to spend working out 
the best way to do some task for an individual user, yet they must get paid 
$30-60k, which no other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for mediocrity 
to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are merely average, 
you’ll earn an average salary, and you won’t be part of “IT” – or you might be 
part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a 6-7 figure earner, 
then you’ll need to provide ever increasing levels of business value, just like 
every other industry (with the possible exception of Sales, where a really good 
pitch can make up for lack of substance, but let’s not confuse sales and 
delivery J )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I’ve dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they 
couldn’t calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an OSI 
model.

 

Systems “Engineers” who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the ideas 
of process, threads, memory protection, etc… Windows Admins who are clueless 
about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization principles, 
environment variables, etc…

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Slide 10 actually nails what I see: 

 

“Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its depth 
(more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer have deep 
technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us old timers 
understand %PATH% and that it’s concept is still relevant behind the scenes, 
how many guys who have only seen Win95

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Angus Scott-Fleming]

On 26 May 2010 at 10:20, David Lum  wrote:

> I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was
> back in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it,
> does that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I´d have to think
> "okay a .128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX 
> records,
> Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you "jack of all
> trades" firewall info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to town
> on registry, AD and GPO design as well as give examples of being able to
> handle a near vertical learning curve. Am I hired? 

> The way I view being an IT guy is day in and day out I´m not necessarily
> using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the "I´ve
> got certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring something out and at those
> times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out. 

> That´s my story I´m stickin´ to it.

I could have written this, too.

--
Angus Scott-Fleming
GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
1-520-290-5038
Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/





~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Steve Ens]

Same here.

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Don Kuhlman  wrote:

>  I like that one - I learned it the other way around :0
> AllApplication
> PeoplePresentation
> Seem  Session
> ToTransport
> Need   Network
> DataData/LLC
> ProcessingPhysical
>
> Don K
>  --
> *From:* "greg.swe...@actsconsulting.net" 
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues 
> *Sent:* Wed, May 26, 2010 12:25:09 PM
>
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>  PleasePhysical
>
> Do  Data/LLC
>
> NotNetwork
>
> Throw   Transport
>
> Sausage   Session
>
> Pizza  Presentation
>
> Away Application
>
>
>
> You will never fail the basic again.  Now what each does.. J
>
>
>
> *From:* David Lum [mailto:david....@nwea.org]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back
> in the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does
> that count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I’d have to think
> “okay a .128 mask is 25 bits…”. I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX
> records, Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you “jack of
> all trades” firewall info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to
> town on registry, AD and GPO design as well as give examples of being able
> to handle a near vertical learning curve. Am I hired?
>
>
>
> The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I’m not necessarily
> using $30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the
> “I’ve got certs but no real IT skills” Joe at figuring something out and at
> those times word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.
>
>
>
> That’s my story I’m stickin’ to it.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> It’s kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number
> of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that
> it’s very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)
>
>
>
> Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate
> costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross
> that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid
> inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver
> tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project delivery in
> large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to
> do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has people who have the time
> to spend working out the best way to do some task for an individual user,
> yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no other industry would accept).
>
>
>
> As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
> mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
> merely average, you’ll earn an average salary, and you won’t be part of “IT”
> – or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a
> 6-7 figure earner, then you’ll need to provide ever increasing levels of
> business value, just like every other industry (with the possible exception
> of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for lack of substance, but
> let’s not confuse sales and delivery J )
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> I’ve dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
> couldn’t calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an
> OSI model.
>
>
>
> Systems “Engineers” who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the
> ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc… Windows Admins who are
> clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization
> principles, environment variables, etc…
>
>
>
> Tis sad.
>
>
>
> -sc
>
>
>
> *From:* David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
>
> *To:

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Don Kuhlman]

I like that one - I learned it the other way around :0

All    Application
People                Presentation
Seem  Session
To                        Transport
Need   Network
Data                    Data/LLC
Processing        Physical

Don K



From: "greg.swe...@actsconsulting.net" 
To: NT System Admin Issues 
Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 12:25:09 PM
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?


Please    Physical
Do  Data/LLC
Not    Network
Throw   Transport
Sausage   Session
Pizza  Presentation
Away         Application
 
You will never fail the basic again.  Now what each does.. J
 
From:David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
 
I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back in 
the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does that 
count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I’d have to think “okay a 
.128 mask is 25 bits…”. I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX records, Aliases, 
HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you “jack of all trades” firewall 
info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to town on registry, AD and 
GPO design as well as give examples of being able to handle a near vertical 
learning curve. Am I hired?
 
The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I’m not necessarily using 
$30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the “I’ve got 
certs but no real IT skills” Joe at figuring something out and at those times 
word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.
 
That’s my story I’m stickin’ to it.
 
From:Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
 
It’s kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number of 
people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that it’s 
very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)
 
Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate 
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross that 
the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid inflated 
salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver tangible/measurable 
results. One only needs to look at project delivery in large corporations, and 
at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to do tasks in a manual 
manner (this list included has people who have the time to spend working out 
the best way to do some task for an individual user, yet they must get paid 
$30-60k, which no other industry would accept). 
 
As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for mediocrity 
to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are merely average, 
you’ll earn an average salary, and you won’t be part of “IT” – or you might be 
part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a 6-7 figure earner, 
then you’ll need to provide ever increasing levels of business value, just like 
every other industry (with the possible exception of Sales, where a really good 
pitch can make up for lack of substance, but let’s not confuse sales and 
delivery J)
 
Cheers
Ken
 
From:Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
 
I’ve dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they 
couldn’t calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an OSI 
model.
 
Systems “Engineers” who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the ideas 
of process, threads, memory protection, etc… Windows Admins who are clueless 
about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization principles, 
environment variables, etc…
 
Tis sad.
 
-sc
 
From:David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
 
Slide 10 actually nails what I see: 
 
“Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its depth 
(more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer have deep 
technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us old timers 
understand %PATH% and that it’s concept is still relevant behind the scenes, 
how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know what it means? 
 
Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications. How many 
of those really understand what’s going on?
 
Dave
 
From:John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM
To:

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Maglinger, Paul]

Yep. Before becoming a system engineer I was a partner in a electronics repair 
depot business. We got a lot of applicants from a nationally known vocational 
college (not naming any names, but it was one letter off from ATT).  People who 
graduated from there couldn't read a schematic diagram, read resistor color 
codes, or even do simple Ohm's Law formulas.  They told me their tests were 
open book and were given study sheets that they could use on the tests.  The 
school justified it by saying that anything they needed to know in the real 
world, they could look up in a book.

*sigh*

-Original Message-
From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:45 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

A kid I know graduated last year with a degree in "Systems Engineering" from 
one of the best-known public universities (at least on the east coast). And he 
did fairly well.

He disliked his first job and has been job hunting. He went to a technical 
interview last week and they asked him to write a small program to read in a 
string of characters - all 1's and 0' - and convert it into binary and then 
display the ASCII text. He failed it.

He asked me to explain it to him, which I did and we made it work (well, I gave 
him pseudo-code and made HIM make it work), but it turned out that he had no 
real concept of binary. It had never come up in his schooling and he said what 
he read on Google didn't help. HAH.

In later conversation he told me he got through most of his degree and his 
first job by finding code on the web and minimally adapting it to his needs - 
never understanding what some of it did.

I just had to shake my head.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:30 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

That's rich. A series of bald statements that the world as we know it will end, 
with no evidence.

Somewhat apropos of this, the current (June 2010) issue of ;login magazine has 
an article titled "Programming with Technological Ritual and Alchemy" and is 
well worth a read. It's an observation by a CS professor who notes that his 
current students are much less inclined to actually understand the way things 
work, and to simply produce mashups, according to some ill-defined rituals. 
It's a fascinating read.

Kurt

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 20:51, Angus Scott-Fleming  wrote:
> Sometimes you have to wonder ...
>
> ---fwd--
> = Included Stuff Follows = Big Changes Ahead 
> for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community
>
>    This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article 
> is
>    titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
>    By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
>    May 21, 2010
>
>    Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
>    go away. READ MORE...
>
> = Included Stuff Ends = More here with links:
> http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70
> 058F2260 825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A
>
>    Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that 
> less than
>    25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
>    working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and 
> IT
>    activities will devolve to business units and will become 
> consolidated
>    with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will 
> be a
>    knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy 
> IT apps
>    and technology.
>
>    Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
>  end of forward -
>    http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
>    --
>    Angus Scott-Fleming
>    GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
>    1-520-290-5038
>    Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[greg.sweers]

PleasePhysical
Do  Data/LLC
NotNetwork
Throw   Transport
Sausage   Session
Pizza  Presentation
Away Application

You will never fail the basic again.  Now what each does.. :)

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back in 
the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does that 
count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have to think "okay a 
.128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX records, 
Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you "jack of all trades" 
firewall info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to town on 
registry, AD and GPO design as well as give examples of being able to handle a 
near vertical learning curve. Am I hired?

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not necessarily using 
$30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the "I've got 
certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring something out and at those times 
word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number of 
people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that it's 
very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate 
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross that 
the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid inflated 
salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver tangible/measurable 
results. One only needs to look at project delivery in large corporations, and 
at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to do tasks in a manual 
manner (this list included has people who have the time to spend working out 
the best way to do some task for an individual user, yet they must get paid 
$30-60k, which no other industry would accept).

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for mediocrity 
to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are merely average, 
you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of "IT" - or you might be 
part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a 6-7 figure earner, 
then you'll need to provide ever increasing levels of business value, just like 
every other industry (with the possible exception of Sales, where a really good 
pitch can make up for lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and 
delivery :) )

Cheers
Ken

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they 
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an OSI 
model.

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the ideas 
of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins who are clueless 
about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization principles, 
environment variables, etc...

Tis sad.

-sc

From: David Lum [mailto:david....@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Slide 10 actually nails what I see:

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its depth 
(more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer have deep 
technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us old timers 
understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant behind the scenes, 
how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know what it means?

Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications. How many 
of those really understand what's going on?

Dave

From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

+1


From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people desire to 
learn less about it.

The ubiquity of autom

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[David Lum]

I would fail the OSI part (sure I could Google it just now) as it was back in 
the NetWare days that I learned about it in a class. Heard of it, does that 
count? 27-bit subnet? Not off the top of my head, I'd have to think "okay a 
.128 mask is 25 bits...". I can explain DNS and forwarding, MX records, 
Aliases, HOSTS file, DHCP incl. reservations, and give you "jack of all trades" 
firewall info, conceptualize memory protection rings, and go to town on 
registry, AD and GPO design as well as give examples of being able to handle a 
near vertical learning curve. Am I hired?

The way I view being  an IT guy is day in and day out I'm not necessarily using 
$30/hr expertise, but there are spikes where I feel I surpass the "I've got 
certs but no real IT skills" Joe at figuring something out and at those times 
word 2-3x my nominal salary so on balance it works out.

That's my story I'm stickin' to it.

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number of 
people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that it's 
very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate 
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross that 
the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid inflated 
salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver tangible/measurable 
results. One only needs to look at project delivery in large corporations, and 
at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to do tasks in a manual 
manner (this list included has people who have the time to spend working out 
the best way to do some task for an individual user, yet they must get paid 
$30-60k, which no other industry would accept).

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for mediocrity 
to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are merely average, 
you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of "IT" - or you might be 
part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a 6-7 figure earner, 
then you'll need to provide ever increasing levels of business value, just like 
every other industry (with the possible exception of Sales, where a really good 
pitch can make up for lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and 
delivery :) )

Cheers
Ken

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they 
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an OSI 
model.

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the ideas 
of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins who are clueless 
about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization principles, 
environment variables, etc...

Tis sad.

-sc

From: David Lum [mailto:david....@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Slide 10 actually nails what I see:

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its depth 
(more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer have deep 
technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us old timers 
understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant behind the scenes, 
how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know what it means?

Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications. How many 
of those really understand what's going on?

Dave

From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

+1


From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people desire to 
learn less about it.

The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but rather to 
an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal with even routine 
maintenance on a vehicle.

There is no reason to believe that this trend will not manifest itself with 
computer technology.

In order to make things appear simple enough for the every-day 
user<http://home.asbzone.com/ASB/archive/2009/11/16/where-simplicity-and-technology-really-intersect.aspx>,
 the complexity gets encapsulated some

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Ben Scott]

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:
> It’s kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number
> of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant ...

  I suspect a lot of people dismiss the OSI model because nothing
really works exactly the way the OSI model envisions.  But it's useful
because it gives us a standard frame of reference.  Everything can be
described in how it differs from the OSI model.  Seems silly, but it
works.

> As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
> mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry.

  Oh, I don't know about that.  I've found a great many organizations
staffed by any number of mediocre people, in every line of work.

  I do suspect that mediocrity is easier to hide in IT than in, say,
carpentry.  Anyone can look at a wall and tell it's crooked.  But a
well-done IT infrastructure and a poorly-done IT infrastructure look
about the same to the layman.  The reputation computers have for never
working very well also means it's harder to get called out.  But as
you say, that will change as IT matures.

  I'm assuming IT will mature.  Eventually.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Ray]

We're seeing a larger emphasis placed on getting the user back up again, and
smaller staffs, so there's less troubleshooting and more re-imaging.  My son
attends an engineering school that issued tablets to everyone.  If the
problem isn't a really quick fix, they image the thing.  

 

Home users are doing the same thing.   We want nearly self-healing systems.


 

From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people desire to
learn less about it.

 

The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but rather
to an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal with even
routine maintenance on a vehicle.

 

There is no reason to believe that this trend will not manifest itself with
computer technology.

 

In order to make things
<http://home.asbzone.com/ASB/archive/2009/11/16/where-simplicity-and-technol
ogy-really-intersect.aspx> appear simple enough for the every-day user, the
complexity gets encapsulated somewhere -- typically in the integration
realm.

 

The main problem is the use of the terms "deploy IT apps" which probably
means something very different to them than it does to us.  Similar to how
people who can put together some basic macros think that they are
"programmers".


-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker



On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 8:52 AM, James Rankin  wrote:

My users can't get their usernames and passwords right. One person this
morning tried to use the mouse on the "Windows failed to start" screen and
phoned me to ask why the cursor wasn't showing. They regularly put the wrong
data into application fields and their grasp of spelling is atrocious. I can
hardly see these lot, within five years, becoming "advanced technological
users" who could be trusted to install software and manage Active Directory.
If you did let them install things, I would spend my entire day cleaning up
after them. Unless there is some massive evolution of the human race in the
very near future, I'd say the whole thrust of that article is nothing more
than hot air.

/User contempt end

 

On 26 May 2010 13:47, Jonathan Link  wrote:

Don't we see stories like this fairly often?  IIRC there was a WSJ article
last year that said much the same thing but was little more than a rant that
he wasn't able to install the software he wanted.

 


 

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Angus Scott-Fleming 
wrote:

Sometimes you have to wonder ...

---fwd--
= Included Stuff Follows =
Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community

   This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article is
   titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
   By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
   May 21, 2010

   Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
   go away. READ MORE...

= Included Stuff Ends =
More here with links:
http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2
<http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70058F2
260> &c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70058F2260
825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A

   Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that less
than
   25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
   working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and IT
   activities will devolve to business units and will become consolidated
   with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will be a
   knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy IT apps
   and technology.

   Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
 end of forward -
   http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
   --
   Angus Scott-Fleming
   GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
   1-520-290-5038
   Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/





~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

 

 

 





-- 
"On two occasions...I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr Babbage, if you put into
the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able
rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such
a question."

 

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Ray]

It's just as possible that companies are going to realize they don't need
fulltime high-dollar IT staff that aren't doing anything but maintaining the
existing network.  If the company isn't expanding or going thru major
changes, there's no point in keeping high dollar folks around.   

 

From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number
of people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that
it's very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

 

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross
that the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid
inflated salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver
tangible/measurable results. One only needs to look at project delivery in
large corporations, and at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to
do tasks in a manual manner (this list included has people who have the time
to spend working out the best way to do some task for an individual user,
yet they must get paid $30-60k, which no other industry would accept). 

 

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for
mediocrity to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are
merely average, you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of "IT"
- or you might be part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a
6-7 figure earner, then you'll need to provide ever increasing levels of
business value, just like every other industry (with the possible exception
of Sales, where a really good pitch can make up for lack of substance, but
let's not confuse sales and delivery J )

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an
OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the
ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc. Windows Admins who are
clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization
principles, environment variables, etc.

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Slide 10 actually nails what I see: 

 

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its
depth (more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer have
deep technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us old
timers understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant behind the
scenes, how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know what it means?


 

Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications. How
many of those really understand what's going on?

 

Dave

 

From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

+1

 

 

From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people desire to
learn less about it.

 

The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but rather
to an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal with even
routine maintenance on a vehicle.

 

There is no reason to believe that this trend will not manifest itself with
computer technology.

 

In order to make things
<http://home.asbzone.com/ASB/archive/2009/11/16/where-simplicity-and-technol
ogy-really-intersect.aspx> appear simple enough for the every-day user, the
complexity gets encapsulated somewhere -- typically in the integration
realm.

 

The main problem is the use of the terms "deploy IT apps" which probably
means something very different to them than it does to us.  Similar to how
people who can put together some basic macros think that they are
"programmers".


-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker

 

 
 
 
NOTICE: Florida has a broad public records law. Most written communications
to or from this entity are public records that will be disclosed to the
public and the media upon request. E-mail communications may be subject to
public disclosure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Ken Schaefer]

It's kinda funny that you mention the OSI model, since there are any number of 
people here that will dismiss it as irrelevant (personally I think that it's 
very relevant to know if you want to advance in an IT career)

Corporations, in an ever ending quest to cut costs (or at least, regulate 
costs) will not continue to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the dross that 
the IT industry produces. There are far too many people being paid inflated 
salaries in this industry, without being able to deliver tangible/measurable 
results. One only needs to look at project delivery in large corporations, and 
at the small end, the dedicated people who manage to do tasks in a manual 
manner (this list included has people who have the time to spend working out 
the best way to do some task for an individual user, yet they must get paid 
$30-60k, which no other industry would accept).

As the industry matures there simply will not be the opportunity for mediocrity 
to survive, just like every other mature industry. If you are merely average, 
you'll earn an average salary, and you won't be part of "IT" - or you might be 
part of an IT provider conglomerate. If you want to be a 6-7 figure earner, 
then you'll need to provide ever increasing levels of business value, just like 
every other industry (with the possible exception of Sales, where a really good 
pitch can make up for lack of substance, but let's not confuse sales and 
delivery :) )

Cheers
Ken

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 11:39 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they 
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an OSI 
model.

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the ideas 
of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins who are clueless 
about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization principles, 
environment variables, etc...

Tis sad.

-sc

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Slide 10 actually nails what I see:

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its depth 
(more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer have deep 
technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us old timers 
understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant behind the scenes, 
how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know what it means?

Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications. How many 
of those really understand what's going on?

Dave

From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

+1


From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people desire to 
learn less about it.

The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but rather to 
an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal with even routine 
maintenance on a vehicle.

There is no reason to believe that this trend will not manifest itself with 
computer technology.

In order to make things appear simple enough for the every-day 
user<http://home.asbzone.com/ASB/archive/2009/11/16/where-simplicity-and-technology-really-intersect.aspx>,
 the complexity gets encapsulated somewhere -- typically in the integration 
realm.

The main problem is the use of the terms "deploy IT apps" which probably means 
something very different to them than it does to us.  Similar to how people who 
can put together some basic macros think that they are "programmers".

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker









NOTICE: Florida has a broad public records law. Most written communications to 
or from this entity are public records that will be disclosed to the public and 
the media upon request. E-mail communications may be subject to public 
disclosure.









~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[David McSpadden]

Or I might start with a ping to the name.  Then maybe an nslookup to the
name.

A NBTSTAT to the name?

Just some junk like that...

But if you are hiring under the other assumption I wouldn't tell you any
of that because I will have your job in 6 months.

:-)

 



From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:14 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

You're hired!

 

-sc

 

From: David McSpadden [mailto:dav...@imcu.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:11 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would verify that my driver's license was current and that it matched
all my other forms of identification.

 



From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:08 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

"Please explain how you would troubleshoot a potential name resolution
issue."

 

*BLANK STARE*

 

-sc

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:04 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I interviewed a candidate a few years back that had a stellar resume,
and Cisco & Microsoft certificates out the ying-yang ...

 

Couldn't answer how many nodes in a 27 bit mask subnet.  So I asked him
how many nodes in a standard class C subnet.

 

His response was " between 200 and 300 "

 

I guess technically he was correct but not accurate.  Wonder what he'd
have said if I told him I'd pay him between $10 and $35 per hour ... ???

 

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks, & Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:39 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment variables, etc...

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Angus Scott-Fleming]

On 26 May 2010 at 9:52, Erik Goldoff  wrote:

> The sad truth of the matter, especially as relates to WinTel
> technologies: The good thing is that almost anyone can install a Windows
> operating system and Windows applications. But the bad thing is that almost
> anyone can install a Windows operating system and Windows applications. The
> hard thing is to do it correctly, securely, and efficiently ! 

In business the 80/20 law applies, as everywhere.  If they can get 80% of the 
desired results (installing software) for 20% of the cost (no IT staff), many 
business owners will stop there.  It's only when they get bit hard by a 
security breach or lost data that they start realizing they need more than the 
20% they've paid for.

--
Angus Scott-Fleming
GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
1-520-290-5038
Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/





~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Steven M. Caesare]

You're hired!

 

-sc

 

From: David McSpadden [mailto:dav...@imcu.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:11 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I would verify that my driver's license was current and that it matched
all my other forms of identification.

 



From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:08 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

"Please explain how you would troubleshoot a potential name resolution
issue."

 

*BLANK STARE*

 

-sc

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:04 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I interviewed a candidate a few years back that had a stellar resume,
and Cisco & Microsoft certificates out the ying-yang ...

 

Couldn't answer how many nodes in a 27 bit mask subnet.  So I asked him
how many nodes in a standard class C subnet.

 

His response was " between 200 and 300 "

 

I guess technically he was correct but not accurate.  Wonder what he'd
have said if I told him I'd pay him between $10 and $35 per hour ... ???

 

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks, & Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:39 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment variables, etc...

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

 

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[David McSpadden]

I would verify that my driver's license was current and that it matched
all my other forms of identification.

 



From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:08 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

"Please explain how you would troubleshoot a potential name resolution
issue."

 

*BLANK STARE*

 

-sc

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:04 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I interviewed a candidate a few years back that had a stellar resume,
and Cisco & Microsoft certificates out the ying-yang ...

 

Couldn't answer how many nodes in a 27 bit mask subnet.  So I asked him
how many nodes in a standard class C subnet.

 

His response was " between 200 and 300 "

 

I guess technically he was correct but not accurate.  Wonder what he'd
have said if I told him I'd pay him between $10 and $35 per hour ... ???

 

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks, & Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:39 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment variables, etc...

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Steven M. Caesare]

"Please explain how you would troubleshoot a potential name resolution
issue."

 

*BLANK STARE*

 

-sc

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:04 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I interviewed a candidate a few years back that had a stellar resume,
and Cisco & Microsoft certificates out the ying-yang ...

 

Couldn't answer how many nodes in a 27 bit mask subnet.  So I asked him
how many nodes in a standard class C subnet.

 

His response was " between 200 and 300 "

 

I guess technically he was correct but not accurate.  Wonder what he'd
have said if I told him I'd pay him between $10 and $35 per hour ... ???

 

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks, & Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:39 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment variables, etc...

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Erik Goldoff]

I interviewed a candidate a few years back that had a stellar resume, and
Cisco & Microsoft certificates out the ying-yang …

 

Couldn’t answer how many nodes in a 27 bit mask subnet.  So I asked him how
many nodes in a standard class C subnet.

 

His response was “ between 200 and 300 “

 

I guess technically he was correct but not accurate.  Wonder what he’d have
said if I told him I’d pay him between $10 and $35 per hour … ???

 

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks, & Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:39 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

I’ve dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn’t calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of an
OSI model.

 

Systems “Engineers” who are at a loss to even at a high level explain the
ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc… Windows Admins who are
clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools, authorization
principles, environment variables, etc…

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Steven M. Caesare]

I've dismissed more network candidates than I can remember because they
couldn't calculate the number of hosts in a subnet. Or had even heard of
an OSI model.

 

Systems "Engineers" who are at a loss to even at a high level explain
the ideas of process, threads, memory protection, etc... Windows Admins
who are clueless about registry interaction, CMD line tools,
authorization principles, environment variables, etc...

 

Tis sad.

 

-sc

 

From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:07 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Slide 10 actually nails what I see: 

 

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its
depth (more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer
have deep technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us
old timers understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant
behind the scenes, how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know
what it means? 

 

Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications.
How many of those really understand what's going on?

 

Dave

 

From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

+1

 

 

From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people
desire to learn less about it.

 

The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but
rather to an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal
with even routine maintenance on a vehicle.

 

There is no reason to believe that this trend will not manifest itself
with computer technology.

 

In order to make things appear simple enough for the every-day user
<http://home.asbzone.com/ASB/archive/2009/11/16/where-simplicity-and-tec
hnology-really-intersect.aspx> , the complexity gets encapsulated
somewhere -- typically in the integration realm.

 

The main problem is the use of the terms "deploy IT apps" which probably
means something very different to them than it does to us.  Similar to
how people who can put together some basic macros think that they are
"programmers".


-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker

 

 
 
 
NOTICE: Florida has a broad public records law. Most written
communications to or from this entity are public records that will be
disclosed to the public and the media upon request. E-mail
communications may be subject to public disclosure.

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[greg.sweers]

Installing and configuring are wholly different animals..  Lots of slick 
wizards do nothing when something breaks and you have to get into the guts.
When I show my customers how to add a user in the SBS Console, (Which I never 
do unless they force the issue), and they say.  Oh this is so easy, "Why do I 
need you?"
I ask them to open the program responsible for managing Active Directory, or 
can they tell us if there is a network connectivity issue, how about pulling up 
log files...  The light bulb goes off and they understand that it takes more 
than just a passing casual use to administer the technology.



From: James Rankin [mailto:kz2...@googlemail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:14 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

There was a time when installing Windows still needed some knowhow - think F6 
for RAID drivers and configuring those disks into arrays. Not quite Unix, but 
still needed expertise.

Contrast that with the install routines for 2008 R2 these days. I was shocked 
to see how simple it was. Load disk, choose partition, format and you're done.

On 26 May 2010 16:07, David Lum mailto:david@nwea.org>> 
wrote:
Slide 10 actually nails what I see:

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its depth 
(more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer have deep 
technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us old timers 
understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant behind the scenes, 
how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know what it means?

Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications. How many 
of those really understand what's going on?

Dave

From: John Hornbuckle 
[mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us<mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us>]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

+1


From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com<mailto:asbz...@gmail.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people desire to 
learn less about it.

The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but rather to 
an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal with even routine 
maintenance on a vehicle.

There is no reason to believe that this trend will not manifest itself with 
computer technology.

In order to make things appear simple enough for the every-day 
user<http://home.asbzone.com/ASB/archive/2009/11/16/where-simplicity-and-technology-really-intersect.aspx>,
 the complexity gets encapsulated somewhere -- typically in the integration 
realm.

The main problem is the use of the terms "deploy IT apps" which probably means 
something very different to them than it does to us.  Similar to how people who 
can put together some basic macros think that they are "programmers".

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker









NOTICE: Florida has a broad public records law. Most written communications to 
or from this entity are public records that will be disclosed to the public and 
the media upon request. E-mail communications may be subject to public 
disclosure.







--
"On two occasions...I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr Babbage, if you put into the 
machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly 
to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."





~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[James Rankin]

There was a time when installing Windows still needed some knowhow - think
F6 for RAID drivers and configuring those disks into arrays. Not quite Unix,
but still needed expertise.

Contrast that with the install routines for 2008 R2 these days. I was
shocked to see how simple it was. Load disk, choose partition, format and
you're done.


On 26 May 2010 16:07, David Lum  wrote:

>  Slide 10 actually nails what I see:
>
>
>
> “Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its
> depth (more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer have
> deep technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us old
> timers understand %PATH% and that it’s concept is still relevant behind the
> scenes, how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know what it means?
>
>
>
>
> Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications. How
> many of those really understand what’s going on?
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> *From:* John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> +1
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people desire
> to learn less about it.
>
>
>
> The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but rather
> to an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal with even
> routine maintenance on a vehicle.
>
>
>
> There is no reason to believe that this trend will not manifest itself with
> computer technology.
>
>
>
> In order to make things appear simple enough for the every-day 
> user<http://home.asbzone.com/ASB/archive/2009/11/16/where-simplicity-and-technology-really-intersect.aspx>,
> the complexity gets encapsulated somewhere -- typically in the integration
> realm.
>
>
>
> The main problem is the use of the terms "deploy IT apps" which probably
> means something very different to them than it does to us.  Similar to how
> people who can put together some basic macros think that they are
> "programmers".
>
>
> -ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> NOTICE: Florida has a broad public records law. Most written communications 
> to or from this entity are public records that will be disclosed to the 
> public and the media upon request. E-mail communications may be subject to 
> public disclosure.
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
"On two occasions...I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr Babbage, if you put into
the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able
rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such
a question."

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[David Lum]

Slide 10 actually nails what I see:

"Technology and confidence in the workforce is broadening but losing its depth 
(more employees understand how to exploit technology, but fewer have deep 
technical expertise). I agree with that one. Case in point: Us old timers 
understand %PATH% and that it's concept is still relevant behind the scenes, 
how many guys who have only seen Win95 and later know what it means?

Like Erik said, most anyone can install Windows and its applications. How many 
of those really understand what's going on?

Dave

From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:john.hornbuc...@taylor.k12.fl.us]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:49 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

+1


From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people desire to 
learn less about it.

The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but rather to 
an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal with even routine 
maintenance on a vehicle.

There is no reason to believe that this trend will not manifest itself with 
computer technology.

In order to make things appear simple enough for the every-day 
user<http://home.asbzone.com/ASB/archive/2009/11/16/where-simplicity-and-technology-really-intersect.aspx>,
 the complexity gets encapsulated somewhere -- typically in the integration 
realm.

The main problem is the use of the terms "deploy IT apps" which probably means 
something very different to them than it does to us.  Similar to how people who 
can put together some basic macros think that they are "programmers".

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker









NOTICE: Florida has a broad public records law. Most written communications to 
or from this entity are public records that will be disclosed to the public and 
the media upon request. E-mail communications may be subject to public 
disclosure.

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Ben Scott]

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Kurt Buff  wrote:
> Somewhat apropos of this, the current (June 2010) issue of ;login
> magazine has an article titled "Programming with Technological Ritual
> and Alchemy" and is well worth a read. It's an observation by a CS
> professor who notes that his current students are much less inclined
> to actually understand the way things work, and to simply produce
> mashups, according to some ill-defined rituals. It's a fascinating
> read.

  The only thing that surprises me is that someone thinks it's a new
development.

http://catb.org/jargon/html/C/cargo-cult-programming.html

  I've long been impressed by the percentage of people who don't seem
to care "how" or "why".

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Andrew S. Baker]

And it's going to apply to any other technology that becomes "mainstream".
 (Various Linux distros will begin to fall into this bucket).   Firewalls
are now in that realm.

It doesn't help that some technologies jump right into mainstream ("cloud
computing", SaaS) to the extent that business folk think that they don't
need any technical assistance to utilize them...

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker


On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Erik Goldoff  wrote:

>  The sad truth of the matter, especially as relates to WinTel technologies
> :
>
>
>
> The good thing is that almost anyone can install a Windows operating system
> and Windows applications.
>
> But the bad thing is that almost anyone can install a Windows operating
> system and Windows applications.
>
>
>
> The hard thing is to do it *correctly, securely, *and* efficiently* !
>
>
>
> *Erik Goldoff***
>
> *IT  Consultant*
>
> *Systems, Networks, & Security *
>
> '  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '
>
> *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
>
>
> The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people desire
> to learn less about it.
>
>
>
> The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but rather
> to an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal with even
> routine maintenance on a vehicle.
>
>
>
> There is no reason to believe that this trend will not manifest itself with
> computer technology.
>
>
>
> In order to make things appear simple enough for the every-day 
> user<http://home.asbzone.com/ASB/archive/2009/11/16/where-simplicity-and-technology-really-intersect.aspx>,
> the complexity gets encapsulated somewhere -- typically in the integration
> realm.
>
>
>
> The main problem is the use of the terms "deploy IT apps" which probably
> means something very different to them than it does to us.  Similar to how
> people who can put together some basic macros think that they are
> "programmers".
>
>
> -ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker
>
>  On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 8:52 AM, James Rankin 
> wrote:
>
> My users can't get their usernames and passwords right. One person this
> morning tried to use the mouse on the "Windows failed to start" screen and
> phoned me to ask why the cursor wasn't showing. They regularly put the wrong
> data into application fields and their grasp of spelling is atrocious. I can
> hardly see these lot, within five years, becoming "advanced technological
> users" who could be trusted to install software and manage Active Directory.
> If you did let them install things, I would spend my entire day cleaning up
> after them. Unless there is some massive evolution of the human race in the
> very near future, I'd say the whole thrust of that article is nothing more
> than hot air.
>
> /User contempt end
>
>
>
> On 26 May 2010 13:47, Jonathan Link  wrote:
>
> Don't we see stories like this fairly often?  IIRC there was a WSJ article
> last year that said much the same thing but was little more than a rant that
> he wasn't able to install the software he wanted.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Angus Scott-Fleming 
> wrote:
>
> Sometimes you have to wonder ...
>
> ---fwd--
> = Included Stuff Follows =
> Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community
>
>This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article is
>titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
>By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
>May 21, 2010
>
>Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
>go away. READ MORE...
>
> = Included Stuff Ends =
> More here with links:
>
> http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70058F2260825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A
>
>
>Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that less
> than
>25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
>working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and IT
>activities will devolve to business units and will become consolidated
>with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will be a
>knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy IT
> apps
>and technology.
>
>   

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Don Guyer]

I went to one of those vocational schools back in the late 80s (not that 
particular one) and I would agree with your statements.

The education I received there was valuable only for a few years, as companies 
switched to just replacing whole boards, in lieu of troubleshooting circuits 
and replacing small parts. Thankfully I was able to pick up on networking and 
back end systems as this changed.

Today, replace look up in a book with WWW and it's the same deal.

Don Guyer
Systems Engineer - Information Services
Prudential, Fox & Roach/Trident Group
431 W. Lancaster Avenue
Devon, PA 19333
Direct: (610) 993-3299
Fax: (610) 650-5306
don.gu...@prufoxroach.com


-Original Message-
From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:12 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

Yep. Before becoming a system engineer I was a partner in a electronics repair 
depot business. We got a lot of applicants from a nationally known vocational 
college (not naming any names, but it was one letter off from ATT).  People who 
graduated from there couldn't read a schematic diagram, read resistor color 
codes, or even do simple Ohm's Law formulas.  They told me their tests were 
open book and were given study sheets that they could use on the tests.  The 
school justified it by saying that anything they needed to know in the real 
world, they could look up in a book.

*sigh*

-Original Message-
From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:45 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

A kid I know graduated last year with a degree in "Systems Engineering" from 
one of the best-known public universities (at least on the east coast). And he 
did fairly well.

He disliked his first job and has been job hunting. He went to a technical 
interview last week and they asked him to write a small program to read in a 
string of characters - all 1's and 0' - and convert it into binary and then 
display the ASCII text. He failed it.

He asked me to explain it to him, which I did and we made it work (well, I gave 
him pseudo-code and made HIM make it work), but it turned out that he had no 
real concept of binary. It had never come up in his schooling and he said what 
he read on Google didn't help. HAH.

In later conversation he told me he got through most of his degree and his 
first job by finding code on the web and minimally adapting it to his needs - 
never understanding what some of it did.

I just had to shake my head.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:30 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

That's rich. A series of bald statements that the world as we know it will end, 
with no evidence.

Somewhat apropos of this, the current (June 2010) issue of ;login magazine has 
an article titled "Programming with Technological Ritual and Alchemy" and is 
well worth a read. It's an observation by a CS professor who notes that his 
current students are much less inclined to actually understand the way things 
work, and to simply produce mashups, according to some ill-defined rituals. 
It's a fascinating read.

Kurt

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 20:51, Angus Scott-Fleming  wrote:
> Sometimes you have to wonder ...
>
> ---fwd--
> = Included Stuff Follows = Big Changes Ahead 
> for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community
>
>    This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article 
> is
>    titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
>    By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
>    May 21, 2010
>
>    Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
>    go away. READ MORE...
>
> = Included Stuff Ends = More here with links:
> http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70
> 058F2260 825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A
>
>    Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that 
> less than
>    25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
>    working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and 
> IT
>    activities will devolve to business units and will become 
> consolidated
>    with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will 
> be a
>    knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy 
> IT apps
>    and technology.
>
>    Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
>  end of forward ---

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Maglinger, Paul]

Yep. Before becoming a system engineer I was a partner in a electronics repair 
depot business. We got a lot of applicants from a nationally known vocational 
college (not naming any names, but it was one letter off from ATT).  People who 
graduated from there couldn't read a schematic diagram, read resistor color 
codes, or even do simple Ohm's Law formulas.  They told me their tests were 
open book and were given study sheets that they could use on the tests.  The 
school justified it by saying that anything they needed to know in the real 
world, they could look up in a book.

*sigh*

-Original Message-
From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:45 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

A kid I know graduated last year with a degree in "Systems Engineering" from 
one of the best-known public universities (at least on the east coast). And he 
did fairly well.

He disliked his first job and has been job hunting. He went to a technical 
interview last week and they asked him to write a small program to read in a 
string of characters - all 1's and 0' - and convert it into binary and then 
display the ASCII text. He failed it.

He asked me to explain it to him, which I did and we made it work (well, I gave 
him pseudo-code and made HIM make it work), but it turned out that he had no 
real concept of binary. It had never come up in his schooling and he said what 
he read on Google didn't help. HAH.

In later conversation he told me he got through most of his degree and his 
first job by finding code on the web and minimally adapting it to his needs - 
never understanding what some of it did.

I just had to shake my head.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:30 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

That's rich. A series of bald statements that the world as we know it will end, 
with no evidence.

Somewhat apropos of this, the current (June 2010) issue of ;login magazine has 
an article titled "Programming with Technological Ritual and Alchemy" and is 
well worth a read. It's an observation by a CS professor who notes that his 
current students are much less inclined to actually understand the way things 
work, and to simply produce mashups, according to some ill-defined rituals. 
It's a fascinating read.

Kurt

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 20:51, Angus Scott-Fleming  wrote:
> Sometimes you have to wonder ...
>
> ---fwd--
> = Included Stuff Follows = Big Changes Ahead 
> for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community
>
>    This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article 
> is
>    titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
>    By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
>    May 21, 2010
>
>    Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
>    go away. READ MORE...
>
> = Included Stuff Ends = More here with links:
> http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70
> 058F2260 825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A
>
>    Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that 
> less than
>    25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
>    working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and 
> IT
>    activities will devolve to business units and will become 
> consolidated
>    with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will 
> be a
>    knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy 
> IT apps
>    and technology.
>
>    Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
>  end of forward -
>    http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
>    --
>    Angus Scott-Fleming
>    GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
>    1-520-290-5038
>    Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Michael B. Smith]

Well, I think he really wants to end up on the project management side of the 
fence, but he's not finding many available jobs there - but loads of available 
jobs for java programmers.

He did find a job last week and he's really looking forward to it. But he got 
it on the strength of his personality, not his technical skills.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:51 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

I wonder if how he's doing his job has a bearing on how well he likes his job.  
It can't be very rewarding to mash up code samples found on the web...
Or if he actually even likes his current career path.  Perhaps he choose the 
wrong vocation?
On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Michael B. Smith 
mailto:mich...@smithcons.com>> wrote:
A kid I know graduated last year with a degree in "Systems Engineering" from 
one of the best-known public universities (at least on the east coast). And he 
did fairly well.

He disliked his first job and has been job hunting. He went to a technical 
interview last week and they asked him to write a small program to read in a 
string of characters - all 1's and 0' - and convert it into binary and then 
display the ASCII text. He failed it.

He asked me to explain it to him, which I did and we made it work (well, I gave 
him pseudo-code and made HIM make it work), but it turned out that he had no 
real concept of binary. It had never come up in his schooling and he said what 
he read on Google didn't help. HAH.

In later conversation he told me he got through most of his degree and his 
first job by finding code on the web and minimally adapting it to his needs - 
never understanding what some of it did.

I just had to shake my head.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com<http://theessentialexchange.com/>


-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com<mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:30 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

That's rich. A series of bald statements that the world as we know it will end, 
with no evidence.

Somewhat apropos of this, the current (June 2010) issue of ;login magazine has 
an article titled "Programming with Technological Ritual and Alchemy" and is 
well worth a read. It's an observation by a CS professor who notes that his 
current students are much less inclined to actually understand the way things 
work, and to simply produce mashups, according to some ill-defined rituals. 
It's a fascinating read.

Kurt

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 20:51, Angus Scott-Fleming 
mailto:angu...@geoapps.com>> wrote:
> Sometimes you have to wonder ...
>
> ---fwd--
> = Included Stuff Follows = Big Changes Ahead
> for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community
>
>This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article
> is
>titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
>By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
>May 21, 2010
>
>Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
>go away. READ MORE...
>
> = Included Stuff Ends = More here with links:
> http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70
> 058F2260 825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A
>
>Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that
> less than
>25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
>working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and
> IT
>activities will devolve to business units and will become
> consolidated
>with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will
> be a
>knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy
> IT apps
>and technology.
>
>Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
>  end of forward -
>http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
>--
>Angus Scott-Fleming
>GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
>1-520-290-5038
>Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~






~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Erik Goldoff]

"  but it turned out that he had no real concept of binary."

There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those that know binary
& those that do not !


Erik Goldoff
IT  Consultant
Systems, Networks, & Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '


-Original Message-
From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:45 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

A kid I know graduated last year with a degree in "Systems Engineering" from 
one of the best-known public universities (at least on the east coast). And he 
did fairly well.

He disliked his first job and has been job hunting. He went to a technical 
interview last week and they asked him to write a small program to read in a 
string of characters - all 1's and 0' - and convert it into binary and then 
display the ASCII text. He failed it.

He asked me to explain it to him, which I did and we made it work (well, I gave 
him pseudo-code and made HIM make it work), but it turned out that he had no 
real concept of binary. It had never come up in his schooling and he said what 
he read on Google didn't help. HAH.

In later conversation he told me he got through most of his degree and his 
first job by finding code on the web and minimally adapting it to his needs - 
never understanding what some of it did.

I just had to shake my head.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Erik Goldoff]

The sad truth of the matter, especially as relates to WinTel technologies :

 

The good thing is that almost anyone can install a Windows operating system
and Windows applications.

But the bad thing is that almost anyone can install a Windows operating
system and Windows applications.

 

The hard thing is to do it correctly, securely, and efficiently !

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks, & Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people desire to
learn less about it.

 

The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but rather
to an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal with even
routine maintenance on a vehicle.

 

There is no reason to believe that this trend will not manifest itself with
computer technology.

 

In order to make things
<http://home.asbzone.com/ASB/archive/2009/11/16/where-simplicity-and-technol
ogy-really-intersect.aspx> appear simple enough for the every-day user, the
complexity gets encapsulated somewhere -- typically in the integration
realm.

 

The main problem is the use of the terms "deploy IT apps" which probably
means something very different to them than it does to us.  Similar to how
people who can put together some basic macros think that they are
"programmers".


-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker



On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 8:52 AM, James Rankin  wrote:

My users can't get their usernames and passwords right. One person this
morning tried to use the mouse on the "Windows failed to start" screen and
phoned me to ask why the cursor wasn't showing. They regularly put the wrong
data into application fields and their grasp of spelling is atrocious. I can
hardly see these lot, within five years, becoming "advanced technological
users" who could be trusted to install software and manage Active Directory.
If you did let them install things, I would spend my entire day cleaning up
after them. Unless there is some massive evolution of the human race in the
very near future, I'd say the whole thrust of that article is nothing more
than hot air.

/User contempt end

 

On 26 May 2010 13:47, Jonathan Link  wrote:

Don't we see stories like this fairly often?  IIRC there was a WSJ article
last year that said much the same thing but was little more than a rant that
he wasn't able to install the software he wanted.

 


 

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Angus Scott-Fleming 
wrote:

Sometimes you have to wonder ...

---fwd--
= Included Stuff Follows =
Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community

   This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article is
   titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
   By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
   May 21, 2010

   Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
   go away. READ MORE...

= Included Stuff Ends =
More here with links:
http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2
<http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70058F2
260> &c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70058F2260
825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A

   Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that less
than
   25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
   working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and IT
   activities will devolve to business units and will become consolidated
   with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will be a
   knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy IT apps
   and technology.

   Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
 end of forward -
   http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
   --
   Angus Scott-Fleming
   GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
   1-520-290-5038
   Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/





~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

 

 

 





-- 
"On two occasions...I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr Babbage, if you put into
the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able
rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such
a question."

 

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Jonathan Link]

I wonder if how he's doing his job has a bearing on how well he likes his
job.  It can't be very rewarding to mash up code samples found on the web...
Or if he actually even likes his current career path.  Perhaps he choose the
wrong vocation?

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Michael B. Smith wrote:

> A kid I know graduated last year with a degree in "Systems Engineering"
> from one of the best-known public universities (at least on the east coast).
> And he did fairly well.
>
> He disliked his first job and has been job hunting. He went to a technical
> interview last week and they asked him to write a small program to read in a
> string of characters - all 1's and 0' - and convert it into binary and then
> display the ASCII text. He failed it.
>
> He asked me to explain it to him, which I did and we made it work (well, I
> gave him pseudo-code and made HIM make it work), but it turned out that he
> had no real concept of binary. It had never come up in his schooling and he
> said what he read on Google didn't help. HAH.
>
> In later conversation he told me he got through most of his degree and his
> first job by finding code on the web and minimally adapting it to his needs
> - never understanding what some of it did.
>
> I just had to shake my head.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael B. Smith
> Consultant and Exchange MVP
> http://TheEssentialExchange.com <http://theessentialexchange.com/>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:30 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
>  Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?
>
> That's rich. A series of bald statements that the world as we know it will
> end, with no evidence.
>
> Somewhat apropos of this, the current (June 2010) issue of ;login magazine
> has an article titled "Programming with Technological Ritual and Alchemy"
> and is well worth a read. It's an observation by a CS professor who notes
> that his current students are much less inclined to actually understand the
> way things work, and to simply produce mashups, according to some
> ill-defined rituals. It's a fascinating read.
>
> Kurt
>
> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 20:51, Angus Scott-Fleming 
> wrote:
> > Sometimes you have to wonder ...
> >
> > ---fwd--
> > = Included Stuff Follows = Big Changes Ahead
> > for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community
> >
> >This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article
> > is
> >titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
> >By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
> >May 21, 2010
> >
> >Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
> >go away. READ MORE...
> >
> > = Included Stuff Ends = More here with links:
> > http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70
> > 058F2260 825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A
> >
> >Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that
> > less than
> >25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
> >working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and
> > IT
> >activities will devolve to business units and will become
> > consolidated
> >with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will
> > be a
> >knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy
> > IT apps
> >and technology.
> >
> >Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
> >  end of forward -
> >http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
> >--
> >Angus Scott-Fleming
> >GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
> >1-520-290-5038
> >Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>  > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> >
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <
> http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[John Hornbuckle]

+1


From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people desire to 
learn less about it.

The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but rather to 
an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal with even routine 
maintenance on a vehicle.

There is no reason to believe that this trend will not manifest itself with 
computer technology.

In order to make things appear simple enough for the every-day 
user<http://home.asbzone.com/ASB/archive/2009/11/16/where-simplicity-and-technology-really-intersect.aspx>,
 the complexity gets encapsulated somewhere -- typically in the integration 
realm.

The main problem is the use of the terms "deploy IT apps" which probably means 
something very different to them than it does to us.  Similar to how people who 
can put together some basic macros think that they are "programmers".

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker




NOTICE: Florida has a broad public records law. Most written communications to 
or from this entity are public records that will be disclosed to the public and 
the media upon request. E-mail communications may be subject to public 
disclosure.

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Michael B. Smith]

A kid I know graduated last year with a degree in "Systems Engineering" from 
one of the best-known public universities (at least on the east coast). And he 
did fairly well.

He disliked his first job and has been job hunting. He went to a technical 
interview last week and they asked him to write a small program to read in a 
string of characters - all 1's and 0' - and convert it into binary and then 
display the ASCII text. He failed it.

He asked me to explain it to him, which I did and we made it work (well, I gave 
him pseudo-code and made HIM make it work), but it turned out that he had no 
real concept of binary. It had never come up in his schooling and he said what 
he read on Google didn't help. HAH.

In later conversation he told me he got through most of his degree and his 
first job by finding code on the web and minimally adapting it to his needs - 
never understanding what some of it did.

I just had to shake my head.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:30 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

That's rich. A series of bald statements that the world as we know it will end, 
with no evidence.

Somewhat apropos of this, the current (June 2010) issue of ;login magazine has 
an article titled "Programming with Technological Ritual and Alchemy" and is 
well worth a read. It's an observation by a CS professor who notes that his 
current students are much less inclined to actually understand the way things 
work, and to simply produce mashups, according to some ill-defined rituals. 
It's a fascinating read.

Kurt

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 20:51, Angus Scott-Fleming  wrote:
> Sometimes you have to wonder ...
>
> ---fwd--
> = Included Stuff Follows = Big Changes Ahead 
> for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community
>
>    This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article 
> is
>    titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
>    By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
>    May 21, 2010
>
>    Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
>    go away. READ MORE...
>
> = Included Stuff Ends = More here with links:
> http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70
> 058F2260 825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A
>
>    Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that 
> less than
>    25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
>    working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and 
> IT
>    activities will devolve to business units and will become 
> consolidated
>    with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will 
> be a
>    knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy 
> IT apps
>    and technology.
>
>    Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
>  end of forward -
>    http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
>    --
>    Angus Scott-Fleming
>    GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
>    1-520-290-5038
>    Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Andrew S. Baker]

I'll bet that the percentage of people who actually care about how things
really work has either remained static, or decreased over time relative to
the general population.  As a percentage of technology users, of course, the
percentage has decreased dramatically, since "technology user" used to be
almost synonymous with "technology enthusiast" 15-20 years ago.Now it
just means someone with the least bit of disposable income.

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker


On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Kurt Buff  wrote:

> That's rich. A series of bald statements that the world as we know it
> will end, with no evidence.
>
> Somewhat apropos of this, the current (June 2010) issue of ;login
> magazine has an article titled "Programming with Technological Ritual
> and Alchemy" and is well worth a read. It's an observation by a CS
> professor who notes that his current students are much less inclined
> to actually understand the way things work, and to simply produce
> mashups, according to some ill-defined rituals. It's a fascinating
> read.
>
> Kurt
>
> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 20:51, Angus Scott-Fleming 
> wrote:
> > Sometimes you have to wonder ...
> >
> > ---fwd--
> > = Included Stuff Follows =
> > Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community
> >
> >This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article is
> >titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
> >By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
> >May 21, 2010
> >
> >Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
> >go away. READ MORE...
> >
> > = Included Stuff Ends =
> > More here with links:
> >
> http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70058F2260825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A
> >
> >Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that less
> than
> >25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
> >working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and IT
> >activities will devolve to business units and will become consolidated
> >with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will be
> a
> >knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy IT
> apps
> >and technology.
> >
> >Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
> >  end of forward -
> >http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
> >--
> >Angus Scott-Fleming
> >GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
> >1-520-290-5038
> >Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/
> >
> >
> >
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Andrew S. Baker]

The fact is that as technology becomes more prevalent, MOST people desire to
learn less about it.

The ubiquity of automobiles has not led to more auto mechanics, but rather
to an even smaller percentage of car owners being able to deal with even
routine maintenance on a vehicle.

There is no reason to believe that this trend will not manifest itself with
computer technology.

In order to make things appear simple enough for the every-day
user,
the complexity gets encapsulated somewhere -- typically in the integration
realm.

The main problem is the use of the terms "deploy IT apps" which probably
means something very different to them than it does to us.  Similar to how
people who can put together some basic macros think that they are
"programmers".

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker


On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 8:52 AM, James Rankin  wrote:

> My users can't get their usernames and passwords right. One person this
> morning tried to use the mouse on the "Windows failed to start" screen and
> phoned me to ask why the cursor wasn't showing. They regularly put the wrong
> data into application fields and their grasp of spelling is atrocious. I can
> hardly see these lot, within five years, becoming "advanced technological
> users" who could be trusted to install software and manage Active Directory.
> If you did let them install things, I would spend my entire day cleaning up
> after them. Unless there is some massive evolution of the human race in the
> very near future, I'd say the whole thrust of that article is nothing more
> than hot air.
>
> /User contempt end
>
>
> On 26 May 2010 13:47, Jonathan Link  wrote:
>
>> Don't we see stories like this fairly often?  IIRC there was a WSJ article
>> last year that said much the same thing but was little more than a rant that
>> he wasn't able to install the software he wanted.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Angus Scott-Fleming <
>> angu...@geoapps.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sometimes you have to wonder ...
>>>
>>> ---fwd--
>>> = Included Stuff Follows =
>>> Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community
>>>
>>>This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article is
>>>titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
>>>By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
>>>May 21, 2010
>>>
>>>Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
>>>go away. READ MORE...
>>>
>>> = Included Stuff Ends =
>>> More here with links:
>>>
>>> http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70058F2260825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A
>>>
>>>Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that less
>>> than
>>>25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
>>>working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and IT
>>>activities will devolve to business units and will become consolidated
>>>with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will be
>>> a
>>>knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy IT
>>> apps
>>>and technology.
>>>
>>>Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
>>>  end of forward -
>>>http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
>>>--
>>>Angus Scott-Fleming
>>>GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
>>>1-520-290-5038
>>>Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>>> ~   ~
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "On two occasions...I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr Babbage, if you put into
> the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able
> rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such
> a question."
>
>
>
>
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Kurt Buff]

That's rich. A series of bald statements that the world as we know it
will end, with no evidence.

Somewhat apropos of this, the current (June 2010) issue of ;login
magazine has an article titled "Programming with Technological Ritual
and Alchemy" and is well worth a read. It's an observation by a CS
professor who notes that his current students are much less inclined
to actually understand the way things work, and to simply produce
mashups, according to some ill-defined rituals. It's a fascinating
read.

Kurt

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 20:51, Angus Scott-Fleming  wrote:
> Sometimes you have to wonder ...
>
> ---fwd--
> = Included Stuff Follows =
> Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community
>
>    This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article is
>    titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
>    By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
>    May 21, 2010
>
>    Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
>    go away. READ MORE...
>
> = Included Stuff Ends =
> More here with links:
> http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70058F2260
>  825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A
>
>    Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that less than
>    25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
>    working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and IT
>    activities will devolve to business units and will become consolidated
>    with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will be a
>    knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy IT apps
>    and technology.
>
>    Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
>  end of forward -
>    http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
>    --
>    Angus Scott-Fleming
>    GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
>    1-520-290-5038
>    Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Bill Lambert]

The article is a load of crap...IMHO

 

Bill Lambert

Concuity

Phone  847-941-9206

 

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From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:47 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

 

Don't we see stories like this fairly often?  IIRC there was a WSJ
article last year that said much the same thing but was little more than
a rant that he wasn't able to install the software he wanted.

 


 

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Angus Scott-Fleming
 wrote:

Sometimes you have to wonder ...

---fwd--
= Included Stuff Follows =
Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community

   This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article is
   titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
   By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
   May 21, 2010

   Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
   go away. READ MORE...

= Included Stuff Ends =
More here with links:
http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB7005
8F2260 825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A

   Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that less
than
   25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
   working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and IT
   activities will devolve to business units and will become
consolidated
   with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will be
a
   knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy IT
apps
   and technology.

   Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
 end of forward -
   http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
   --
   Angus Scott-Fleming
   GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
   1-520-290-5038
   Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/





~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[James Rankin]

My users can't get their usernames and passwords right. One person this
morning tried to use the mouse on the "Windows failed to start" screen and
phoned me to ask why the cursor wasn't showing. They regularly put the wrong
data into application fields and their grasp of spelling is atrocious. I can
hardly see these lot, within five years, becoming "advanced technological
users" who could be trusted to install software and manage Active Directory.
If you did let them install things, I would spend my entire day cleaning up
after them. Unless there is some massive evolution of the human race in the
very near future, I'd say the whole thrust of that article is nothing more
than hot air.

/User contempt end

On 26 May 2010 13:47, Jonathan Link  wrote:

> Don't we see stories like this fairly often?  IIRC there was a WSJ article
> last year that said much the same thing but was little more than a rant that
> he wasn't able to install the software he wanted.
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Angus Scott-Fleming  > wrote:
>
>> Sometimes you have to wonder ...
>>
>> ---fwd--
>> = Included Stuff Follows =
>> Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community
>>
>>This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article is
>>titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
>>By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
>>May 21, 2010
>>
>>Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
>>go away. READ MORE...
>>
>> = Included Stuff Ends =
>> More here with links:
>>
>> http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70058F2260825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A
>>
>>Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that less
>> than
>>25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
>>working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and IT
>>activities will devolve to business units and will become consolidated
>>with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will be a
>>knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy IT
>> apps
>>and technology.
>>
>>Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
>>  end of forward -
>>http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
>>--
>>Angus Scott-Fleming
>>GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
>>1-520-290-5038
>>Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
"On two occasions...I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr Babbage, if you put into
the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able
rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such
a question."

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this?

[Jonathan Link]

Don't we see stories like this fairly often?  IIRC there was a WSJ article
last year that said much the same thing but was little more than a rant that
he wasn't able to install the software he wanted.



On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Angus Scott-Fleming
wrote:

> Sometimes you have to wonder ...
>
> ---fwd--
> = Included Stuff Follows =
> Big Changes Ahead for IT - Anyone seen this? - Spiceworks Community
>
>This link comes from eWeeks Editor's Pick newsletter. The article is
>titled: "Radical Reductions in IT Workforce Ahead"
>By Edward Cone, CIO Insight
>May 21, 2010
>
>Jobs may move to other areas of the company, be outsourced--or just
>go away. READ MORE...
>
> = Included Stuff Ends =
> More here with links:
>
> http://web.eweek.com/t?r=2&c=24763&l=23&ctl=739AC:1A76A774489FFA8BAB70058F2260825E&kc=EWKNLEDP05212010A
>
>Part of what they are trying to indicate in these slides is that less
> than
>25% of today's IT workforce will remain by 2015, IT CIO's and those
>working in IT overall will be less in charge of their destiny, and IT
>activities will devolve to business units and will become consolidated
>with other departments like HR, Finance, etc. Almost everyone will be a
>knowledged worker and will in many ways be able to use and deploy IT
> apps
>and technology.
>
>Wow, I can't wait! I especially love slide # 
>  end of forward -
>http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/99492?page=1
>--
>Angus Scott-Fleming
>GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
>1-520-290-5038
>Security Blog: http://geoapps.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~