RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Hi Dave,

where I am confused is the focus on Mailing-List forwarding rather than E-mail 
forwarding.  I can't tell what the intended behaviors are.

Let's get clear:

 1. If someone posts to one of the old e-mail list addresses (e.g., 
us...@openoffice.org), what is intended to happen?  What is the observed 
behavior?  How does this extend to use 
of -subscribe, -unsubscribe, -help, -owner (or their OO.o counterparts), etc. 
?


 2. (a) If someone sends an e-mail to an existing account/e-mail address 
(e.g., orc...@openoffice.org), what is intended to happen?  What does the 
individual that it current forwards to get to know or do about it?  The person 
sending the e-mail?  If the forwarding bounces, what will happen?
(b) If the account is closed/deleted, what are the 2(a) answers.

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 20:35
To: orc...@apache.org
Cc: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; 'Joe Schaefer'
Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses


On Nov 1, 2011, at 8:07 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

> Whoa, now I am really confused.  This seems to have gone in the opposite 
> direction than what I thought.
>
> First it narrowed down to privileging some small set of BZ users.
>
> And then protecting our committers that have @openoffice.org email 
> addresses.
>
> Also, I don't think there had been any intention to preserve the 
> @openffice.org mailing lists.  Also, setting their addresses to forward to a 
> different list that is not subscribed to is just weird.  So I don't 
> understand the list forwarding scenario.
>
> And I have seen no one talk about moving the subscriber lists and adding 
> those subscribers to a list they did not opt into.

Joe and I discussed doing it w/o subscriber lists. As a pure forwarder that's 
choice one and two.


>
> I hope I misunderstand the common understanding about that.


You do. See my other reply.

[ ... ]


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dave Fisher]

On Nov 1, 2011, at 8:07 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

> Whoa, now I am really confused.  This seems to have gone in the opposite 
> direction than what I thought.
> 
> First it narrowed down to privileging some small set of BZ users.
> 
> And then protecting our committers that have @openoffice.org email addresses.
> 
> Also, I don't think there had been any intention to preserve the 
> @openffice.org mailing lists.  Also, setting their addresses to forward to a 
> different list that is not subscribed to is just weird.  So I don't 
> understand the list forwarding scenario.
> 
> And I have seen no one talk about moving the subscriber lists and adding 
> those subscribers to a list they did not opt into.

Joe and I discussed doing it w/o subscriber lists. As a pure forwarder that's 
choice one and two.


> 
> I hope I misunderstand the common understanding about that.


You do. See my other reply.

> 
> LET'S BACK UP

The following is a third choice. Are you willing to build and maintain it?

> 
> If there is only one thing that can be preserved, I believe it should be the 
> forwarding.  I understand that's a lot of forwarding, although the demand 
> might not be that high, as a proportion of the number of forwards served per 
> day.
> 
> I shall commit the unpardonable sin of instant design now:
> 
> MAILING-LIST TOMBSTONING
> 
> What were once mailing-list e-mail addresses (such as us...@openoffice.org 
> and market...@openoffice.org) could forward to a tombstone dead-letter 
> responder or something that bounces posts sent to the old lists, giving them 
> some sort of information about available options, perhaps.  -subscribe, 
> -unsubscribe, -owner, and -help requests and such could be handled politely 
> too (or likely receive the same response).  That should be a one-time setup 
> and the PPMC could manage and help set them up, I think.  It would be a 
> passive operation from then on, though it might be nice to be able to update 
> the tombstone messages as the situation on the Apache side changes.  The 
> tombstone message might link to a web-site page where there are particulars, 
> since the web site is easier to set up in advance (on our staging SVN) and 
> continue maintaining after web-site cutover.  At some point the tombstones 
> could be retired, although it seems harmless to just leave them and simply 
> continue maintaining the tombstone-referenced web pages as needed.  (Even 
> when AOOo goes TLP, so long as the OO.o site is perpetuated at http:// 
> *.openoffice.org, there should be no need to fix the tombstone messages.)
> 
> BARE-BONES EMAIL FORWARDING
> 
> With regard to regular e-mail forwarding, it would be nice if folks could 
> maintain their own.  
> 
> But if it is to be a one-time passive list, I don't think there is any reason 
> to discriminate.  Just keep forwarding all of them to where they go now.  
> 
> There is the small use of people using them as logon IDs (with or without the 
> @openoffice.org) and having profiles on the site.  I think that can be 
> simplified by having most of the login buttons take people to an explanation 
> that they now need to log on separately to the various properties (bugzilla, 
> wiki, forums), and what to do to find properties that are no longer part of 
> @openoffice.org but have other forms under Apache.  (The manage my own 
> mailing list subscriptions page would be one of those.)  The logon-use is a 
> PPMC action in maintaining the migrated web pages and should not require 
> Infrastructure support.  The static forwarding list and acquisition of the 
> list from Oracle is where Infrastructure is indispensable.  [I would 
> recommend that the password hashes be brought over too, if possible, just in 
> case there is an use for them with some sort of utility function later.)
> 
> How these addresses are retired is more complex because a bounce is not to 
> the user that has that e-mail address but someone wanting to reach them, or 
> forward something from a mailing list, etc.  I figure that can be solved 
> later.
> 
> WRAP-UP  
> 
> That's my understanding of the two key use cases and my rationale for 
> emphasizing e-mail forwarding over mailing-list-forwarding (whatever that is 
> envisioned to be).
> 
> Am I in violent agreement or am I at odds with where this thread has arrived 
> now?
> 
> - Dennis
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Schaefer [mailto:joe_schae...@yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 18:54
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> From: Dave Fisher 
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 9:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>> 
>> Hi Joe,
>> 
>> Thanks for the clarity.
>> 
>> On Nov 1, 2011, at 5:47 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> 
>>> ezmlm and qmail are married packages.
>>> qmail i

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dave Fisher]

On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:19 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

> Joe,
> 
> The second choice seems more optimal, with focus on preserving the forwarding 
> and neglect of the OO.o mailing lists.

This is your focus. I am focused on the mailing lists, too.

> 
> There is no intention to support the mailing lists and folks are being 
> invited 
> to move to lists created by the podling as we speak.  No automatic 
> transportation or preservation of subscription lists is intended, nor are the 
> archives being preserved by the podling.

Both choices preserve all of the old OOo MLs as forwarders to the new AOOo(i) 
MLs.

This may include securityteam@oo.o to ooo-security@i.a.o.

> 
> If some sort of rescue is achieved for (selective) OOo lists, that would be a 
> separate effort and have to be sustained by PPMC resources, as you say.

Yes, you may have noticed Rob and Kay's efforts to move people. They also 
mapped existing lists into an AOOo ML pattern. This can easily become a static 
map for the forwarders. I would say that the PPMC is engaged, it will be in 
people's own interest. I don't see a problem finding the resources to complete 
this part.

If we go with the first choice it is managed by Infra.

If we go with the second choice is is managed by the PPMC.

And this is the choice for the PPMC to make.

Choice two is on a jail. What could be on that? Will it be highly available? 
What happens when it goes down?

Choice one is a more highly available, scalable, supportable choice. We should 
be sure that preserving an overall mapping is worth the effort and tradeoffs. 
Without volunteers to maintain the "jail" and forwarders that Joe will setup 
the decision is easy - choice one.

That said I appreciate your energy. There is still the legal question. Once 
that is answered and there is a consensus or vote we can proceed.

Best Regards,
Dave


> 
> 
> - Dennis E. Hamilton
>   tools for document interoperability,  
>   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Schaefer [mailto:joe_schae...@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 17:47
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: orc...@apache.org; 'Lawrence Rosen'
> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
> 
> [ ... ]
> 
> Pick your poison in other words, either the focus is
> on ML's, in which case forwarding addresses only get
> support limited to a select few (committers say).
> Otherwise the focus is on forwarding addresses, in which
> case someone other than infra will be responsible for
> the upkeep of the mailing list infra for ooo.
> 
> 
> HTH
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> From: Dave Fisher 
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 8:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>> 
>> Hi Joe,
>> 
>> Now I am confused you mention 3 different possible mail managers for MX for 
>> openoffice.org.
>> 
>> (1) qmail - does Oracle/Sun use this in addition to SYMPA?
>> (2) ezmlm - a version of this is the ASF's MTA, correct?
>> (3) postfix - is this an alternative you mention because it could support a 
>> large forwarding database? and you don't want that "feature" in ezmlm?
>> 
>> If every email to openoffice.org is either forwarded according to a database 
>> or bounced.  If there are no or the minimum required by internet protocols 
>> mboxes on the openoffice.org MX.
>> 
>> What is the threshold for being incorporated into the ASF's normal ezmlm? If 
>> all of the forwarders were to apache.org addresses would that work?
>> 
>> I guess I don't understand the complexities of Apache's MTA.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Nov 1, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> 
>>> 
 From: Dave Fisher 
 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
 Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:47 PM
 Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail 
 addresses
 
 Hi Joe,
 
 On Nov 1, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
 
> Actually you should know I'm the main
> guy who deals with the mail services
> at the ASF, so yeah considering my opinion
> as relevant might be wise ;-)
 
 openoffice.org MX at ASF questions
 
 (1) In hosting OOo MX will there be a need for any real mail boxes?
 
 (2) Any trouble with double forwarders for securityteam@OO.o?
 
 (3) There are currently about 330 MLs that the project would like to 
 forward. Kay and Rob are emailing these lists and informing about the new 
 lists.
 
 It would be good to have these ML forwarders exist as long as the ASF is 
 handling OpenOffice.org MLs.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Personally I have no interest in maintaining whatever mailing list software
>>> Sun/Oracle chose fo

RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Whoa, now I am really confused.  This seems to have gone in the opposite 
direction than what I thought.

First it narrowed down to privileging some small set of BZ users.

And then protecting our committers that have @openoffice.org email addresses.

Also, I don't think there had been any intention to preserve the @openffice.org 
mailing lists.  Also, setting their addresses to forward to a different list 
that is not subscribed to is just weird.  So I don't understand the list 
forwarding scenario.

And I have seen no one talk about moving the subscriber lists and adding those 
subscribers to a list they did not opt into.

I hope I misunderstand the common understanding about that.

LET'S BACK UP

If there is only one thing that can be preserved, I believe it should be the 
forwarding.  I understand that's a lot of forwarding, although the demand might 
not be that high, as a proportion of the number of forwards served per day.

I shall commit the unpardonable sin of instant design now:

MAILING-LIST TOMBSTONING

What were once mailing-list e-mail addresses (such as us...@openoffice.org and 
market...@openoffice.org) could forward to a tombstone dead-letter responder or 
something that bounces posts sent to the old lists, giving them some sort of 
information about available options, perhaps.  -subscribe, -unsubscribe, 
-owner, and -help requests and such could be handled politely too (or likely 
receive the same response).  That should be a one-time setup and the PPMC could 
manage and help set them up, I think.  It would be a passive operation from 
then on, though it might be nice to be able to update the tombstone messages as 
the situation on the Apache side changes.  The tombstone message might link to 
a web-site page where there are particulars, since the web site is easier to 
set up in advance (on our staging SVN) and continue maintaining after web-site 
cutover.  At some point the tombstones could be retired, although it seems 
harmless to just leave them and simply continue maintaining the 
tombstone-referenced web pages as needed.  (Even when AOOo goes TLP, so long as 
the OO.o site is perpetuated at http:// *.openoffice.org, there should be no 
need to fix the tombstone messages.)

BARE-BONES EMAIL FORWARDING

With regard to regular e-mail forwarding, it would be nice if folks could 
maintain their own.  

But if it is to be a one-time passive list, I don't think there is any reason 
to discriminate.  Just keep forwarding all of them to where they go now.  

There is the small use of people using them as logon IDs (with or without the 
@openoffice.org) and having profiles on the site.  I think that can be 
simplified by having most of the login buttons take people to an explanation 
that they now need to log on separately to the various properties (bugzilla, 
wiki, forums), and what to do to find properties that are no longer part of 
@openoffice.org but have other forms under Apache.  (The manage my own mailing 
list subscriptions page would be one of those.)  The logon-use is a PPMC action 
in maintaining the migrated web pages and should not require Infrastructure 
support.  The static forwarding list and acquisition of the list from Oracle is 
where Infrastructure is indispensable.  [I would recommend that the password 
hashes be brought over too, if possible, just in case there is an use for them 
with some sort of utility function later.)

How these addresses are retired is more complex because a bounce is not to the 
user that has that e-mail address but someone wanting to reach them, or forward 
something from a mailing list, etc.  I figure that can be solved later.

WRAP-UP  

That's my understanding of the two key use cases and my rationale for 
emphasizing e-mail forwarding over mailing-list-forwarding (whatever that is 
envisioned to be).

Am I in violent agreement or am I at odds with where this thread has arrived 
now?

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Joe Schaefer [mailto:joe_schae...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 18:54
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses



>
>From: Dave Fisher 
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer 
>Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 9:41 PM
>Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>
>Hi Joe,
>
>Thanks for the clarity.
>
>On Nov 1, 2011, at 5:47 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
>> ezmlm and qmail are married packages.
>> qmail is an MTA and ezmlm is a qmail app
>> for managing mailing lists.
>
>Thanks.
>
>> Given the surprises I've seen here by folks
>> getting used to the whole ezmlm feature-set,
>> I'm confident that Oracle is using something
>> 
>> other than that for ooo.
>
>They are using SYMPA. They allow html. They allow bad SPF.


We could allow html too if that's what the group prefers.
Contrary to popular opinion the "tolerate html" settings
are configurable on a per-list basis with

Re: Willing help on Test

[Raphael Bircher]

Hi Ji Yan

Am 02.11.11 01:58, schrieb Ji Yan:


Hi all,

   This is Yan Ji from IBM Lotus Symphony test team. I've been working in
Symphony for almost five years . It's my honour to join the community. As a
QE of Symphony my major focus is FVT in both
WordProcessor/Spreadsheet/Presentation and Install. Now I'm willing to
contribute my effort on Apache OpenOffice. Please let me know if there is
anything I can help on OO 3.4 release.
Welcome! At the moment we have no public builds, but you can build a 
AOOo your self or maybe a other IBMer do it for you ;-) We have 
different work to do:


1) Bugzilla editing unconfirmed issues
2) Automation: Setup test boxes and make it ready to start
3) Querbeet tests


   Since most OO website are unreachable. Could someone help me to find OO
TCM or TCS, it will help me to understand how the OO test way works.
Looking forward to hear from you.
Unfortionaly we have no TCM/TCS. Our old TCM was a proprietary tool, and 
we can't take over it. There was a plane to replace the TCM within 
QUASTe. But this one is still in Beta, and no one working on it since it 
was developed by Helge Delfs who was one of the Hamburg Oracle Team.


But anyway. The workflow by OOo has changed, and we need to reorganize 
the QA. And first we should reorganize the QA and then we should talk 
about the needed tools. Thats my option.


Greetings Raphael

--
My private Homepage: http://www.raphaelbircher.ch/

RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Joe,

The second choice seems more optimal, with focus on preserving the forwarding 
and neglect of the OO.o mailing lists.

There is no intention to support the mailing lists and folks are being invited 
to move to lists created by the podling as we speak.  No automatic 
transportation or preservation of subscription lists is intended, nor are the 
archives being preserved by the podling.

If some sort of rescue is achieved for (selective) OOo lists, that would be a 
separate effort and have to be sustained by PPMC resources, as you say.


 - Dennis E. Hamilton
   tools for document interoperability,  
   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid





-Original Message-
From: Joe Schaefer [mailto:joe_schae...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 17:47
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Cc: orc...@apache.org; 'Lawrence Rosen'
Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[ ... ]

Pick your poison in other words, either the focus is
on ML's, in which case forwarding addresses only get
support limited to a select few (committers say).
Otherwise the focus is on forwarding addresses, in which
case someone other than infra will be responsible for
the upkeep of the mailing list infra for ooo.


HTH




>
>From: Dave Fisher 
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 8:37 PM
>Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>
>Hi Joe,
>
>Now I am confused you mention 3 different possible mail managers for MX for 
>openoffice.org.
>
>(1) qmail - does Oracle/Sun use this in addition to SYMPA?
>(2) ezmlm - a version of this is the ASF's MTA, correct?
>(3) postfix - is this an alternative you mention because it could support a 
>large forwarding database? and you don't want that "feature" in ezmlm?
>
>If every email to openoffice.org is either forwarded according to a database 
>or bounced.  If there are no or the minimum required by internet protocols 
>mboxes on the openoffice.org MX.
>
>What is the threshold for being incorporated into the ASF's normal ezmlm? If 
>all of the forwarders were to apache.org addresses would that work?
>
>I guess I don't understand the complexities of Apache's MTA.
>
>Regards,
>Dave
>
>On Nov 1, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
>> 
>>> From: Dave Fisher 
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail 
>>> addresses
>>>
>>> Hi Joe,
>>>
>>> On Nov 1, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>
 Actually you should know I'm the main
 guy who deals with the mail services
 at the ASF, so yeah considering my opinion
 as relevant might be wise ;-)
>>>
>>> openoffice.org MX at ASF questions
>>>
>>> (1) In hosting OOo MX will there be a need for any real mail boxes?
>>>
>>> (2) Any trouble with double forwarders for securityteam@OO.o?
>>>
>>> (3) There are currently about 330 MLs that the project would like to 
>>> forward. Kay and Rob are emailing these lists and informing about the new 
>>> lists.
>>>
>>> It would be good to have these ML forwarders exist as long as the ASF is 
>>> handling OpenOffice.org MLs.
>>
>>
>> Personally I have no interest in maintaining whatever mailing list software
>> Sun/Oracle chose for managing their lists.  OTOH my experience with qmail
>> suggests that such software doesn't have a lot of maintenance requirements,
>> so if a reasonable plan were developed for migrating the lists to some ASF
>> host that was careful not to preserve list subscriptions, I'd be willing to
>> help with the transition.
>>
>> But over time, because this service isn't a part of our main ezmlm-based
>> mailing-list infra, we'd probably not want to be involved in its upkeep,
>> and that means we'd be more than happy to shut it down if time proves
>> that nobody else here wants to be bothered with that either.
>>
>>
>> The PMC will need to sort out how to allocate its resources given that
>> constraint.  Infra is happy to assist, and willing to investigate ways
>> of incorporating openoffice.org lists into our ezmlm-based infra, but
>> that effort will be terminally hampered by the presence of all those
>> ooo forwarding addresses that I won't ever expose to qmail.  Sorry.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> (4) There are less than 100 PPMC/Committers. Some of them have their lives 
>>> revolving around their OOo forwarder.
>>>
>>> Should we allow these trusted people to have their OOo email be forwarded. 
>>> I would say to their apache id, but I bet many people in the project have 
>>> their apache id pointing at openoffice.org. (There might be Apache 
>>> committers unrelated to AOOo with their apache id forwarding to OOo.)
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>
>>
>> Value judgements aren't things I'

Conversion of open source support websites

[Lawrence Rosen]

Dear open source attorneys,

 

A question has come up in the Apache Open Office project related to the
conversion of the relevant websites from Oracle's control to Apache's
control. 

 

We note that there are many myn...@openoffice.org accounts and passwords.
Emails to these addresses on openoffice.org mailing lists are forwarded to
an account kept in an account record file. 

 

Is this information private and confidential in Europe and other non-US
jurisdictions? Some participants on the project team believe that transfer
of that file into Apache violates some privacy or even regulatory policy
concerning the handling and sharing of private information (i.e., email
addresses). 

 

Is there something special we need to do in Apache in order to convert this
file so that the Open Office project isn't disrupted and so that privacy
rights in all countries are protected?

 

/Larry

 

bcc: AOo.o development list

 

Lawrence Rosen

Rosenlaw & Einschlag, a technology law firm (www.rosenlaw.com) 

3001 King Ranch Road, Ukiah, CA 95482

Cell: 707-478-8932

Apache Software Foundation, board member and counsel (www.apache.org) 

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Joe Schaefer]

>
>From: Dave Fisher 
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer 
>Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 9:41 PM
>Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>
>Hi Joe,
>
>Thanks for the clarity.
>
>On Nov 1, 2011, at 5:47 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
>> ezmlm and qmail are married packages.
>> qmail is an MTA and ezmlm is a qmail app
>> for managing mailing lists.
>
>Thanks.
>
>> Given the surprises I've seen here by folks
>> getting used to the whole ezmlm feature-set,
>> I'm confident that Oracle is using something
>> 
>> other than that for ooo.
>
>They are using SYMPA. They allow html. They allow bad SPF.


We could allow html too if that's what the group prefers.
Contrary to popular opinion the "tolerate html" settings
are configurable on a per-list basis with ezmlm.



>
>> 
>> Postfix is what I'd recommend we use for dealing
>> with the forwarding needs, but postfix isn't compatible
>> with ezmlm so we'd need to run that on a separate
>> host.
>> 
>> What I'm trying to point out for you here is that
>> the mail server software I'd recommend for forwarding handling
>> and the software I'd prefer using for ML's are incompatible
>> with each other, and I'm not going to run some crazy
>> scheme to try and divvy up the domain between two
>> separate mail servers.
>> 
>> Pick your poison in other words, either the focus is
>> on ML's, in which case forwarding addresses only get
>> support limited to a select few (committers say).
>> Otherwise the focus is on forwarding addresses, in which
>> case someone other than infra will be responsible for
>> the upkeep of the mailing list infra for ooo.
>
>Are the following two configurations accurate statements of what you would 
>support.
>
>Configuration A - ezmlm/qmail on the usual ASF MTA
>
>330 OOo MLs w/o subscribers forward to project MLs.
><100 committers/PPMC members with OOo forwards to either an external email or 
>their apache forwarder. Just the apache address?


Doesn't matter where the forwarders go to, but I'd recommend matching
them up with the apache.org address as once they're enabled they won't
ever be changed without a polite plea to infra for help.


>
>Configuration B - postfix on a jail maintained by the project
>
>330 OOo MLs w/o subscribers forward to project MLs.
><100 committers/PPMC members with OOo forwards to either an external email or 
>their apache forwarder.
>>20,000 BZ OOo forwarders to external emails.
>Volunteers for postfix admin.


Not just postfix, but whatever mailing list software
you want to use (mailman say) to manage the ML's for
the openoffice.org domain.  Keep in mind that while
I'm offering to help with the postfix setup and initial
forwarding database drop,  it will require the work
of a PPMC member to provide support for allowing changes
to the forwarding addresses, not to mention list migration.


>
>I personally prefer Configuration A.


OK, I think you've understood the gist of the choice I'm offering.

Of course that means the phaseout of all the forwarding addresses
will happen pretty much as soon as we cutover the mail service
to ASF gear.


>
>Let's see if we get Consensus, or if we need a vote.
>
>We don't need to hurry the MTA migration as much as other OOo services.
>
>Regards,
>Dave
>
>
>> 
>> 
>> HTH
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Dave Fisher 
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 8:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>>> 
>>> Hi Joe,
>>> 
>>> Now I am confused you mention 3 different possible mail managers for MX for 
>>> openoffice.org.
>>> 
>>> (1) qmail - does Oracle/Sun use this in addition to SYMPA?
>>> (2) ezmlm - a version of this is the ASF's MTA, correct?
>>> (3) postfix - is this an alternative you mention because it could support a 
>>> large forwarding database? and you don't want that "feature" in ezmlm?
>>> 
>>> If every email to openoffice.org is either forwarded according to a 
>>> database or bounced.  If there are no or the minimum required by internet 
>>> protocols mboxes on the openoffice.org MX.
>>> 
>>> What is the threshold for being incorporated into the ASF's normal ezmlm? 
>>> If all of the forwarders were to apache.org addresses would that work?
>>> 
>>> I guess I don't understand the complexities of Apache's MTA.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> On Nov 1, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>> 
 
> From: Dave Fisher 
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail 
> addresses
> 
> Hi Joe,
> 
> On Nov 1, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> 
>> Actually you should know I'm the main
>> guy who deals with

Re: Ohloh

[Eike Rathke]

Hi Rob,

On Monday, 2011-10-31 13:44:10 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:

> > http://www.ohloh.net/edits?page=3&project_id=openoffice
> >
> > Perhaps it is possible for ohioh.net to roll back to the state prior to 
> > Rob's changes as of October 11, 2011.
> >
> 
> I did not remove any enlistments from the OOo project.  I did add the
> Apache SVN to it.

And undid it again yesterday or the day before? Maybe that 'osde8info'
fouled things up.. I just undid a change where he undid the hg listing.
Let's see how Ohloh copes with those 2 repositories now.

> Note also that the way that project is configured, anyone can walk in
> off the street and add or remove enlistments.  Not such a great idea,
> I think.

Worked fine for ~5 years, apart from some spam.

  Eike

-- 
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Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the clarity.

On Nov 1, 2011, at 5:47 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:

> ezmlm and qmail are married packages.
> qmail is an MTA and ezmlm is a qmail app
> for managing mailing lists.

Thanks.

> Given the surprises I've seen here by folks
> getting used to the whole ezmlm feature-set,
> I'm confident that Oracle is using something
> 
> other than that for ooo.

They are using SYMPA. They allow html. They allow bad SPF.

> 
> Postfix is what I'd recommend we use for dealing
> with the forwarding needs, but postfix isn't compatible
> with ezmlm so we'd need to run that on a separate
> host.
> 
> What I'm trying to point out for you here is that
> the mail server software I'd recommend for forwarding handling
> and the software I'd prefer using for ML's are incompatible
> with each other, and I'm not going to run some crazy
> scheme to try and divvy up the domain between two
> separate mail servers.
> 
> Pick your poison in other words, either the focus is
> on ML's, in which case forwarding addresses only get
> support limited to a select few (committers say).
> Otherwise the focus is on forwarding addresses, in which
> case someone other than infra will be responsible for
> the upkeep of the mailing list infra for ooo.

Are the following two configurations accurate statements of what you would 
support.

Configuration A - ezmlm/qmail on the usual ASF MTA

330 OOo MLs w/o subscribers forward to project MLs.
<100 committers/PPMC members with OOo forwards to either an external email or 
their apache forwarder. Just the apache address?

Configuration B - postfix on a jail maintained by the project

330 OOo MLs w/o subscribers forward to project MLs.
<100 committers/PPMC members with OOo forwards to either an external email or 
their apache forwarder.
>20,000 BZ OOo forwarders to external emails.
Volunteers for postfix admin.

I personally prefer Configuration A.

Let's see if we get Consensus, or if we need a vote.

We don't need to hurry the MTA migration as much as other OOo services.

Regards,
Dave


> 
> 
> HTH
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> From: Dave Fisher 
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 8:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>> 
>> Hi Joe,
>> 
>> Now I am confused you mention 3 different possible mail managers for MX for 
>> openoffice.org.
>> 
>> (1) qmail - does Oracle/Sun use this in addition to SYMPA?
>> (2) ezmlm - a version of this is the ASF's MTA, correct?
>> (3) postfix - is this an alternative you mention because it could support a 
>> large forwarding database? and you don't want that "feature" in ezmlm?
>> 
>> If every email to openoffice.org is either forwarded according to a database 
>> or bounced.  If there are no or the minimum required by internet protocols 
>> mboxes on the openoffice.org MX.
>> 
>> What is the threshold for being incorporated into the ASF's normal ezmlm? If 
>> all of the forwarders were to apache.org addresses would that work?
>> 
>> I guess I don't understand the complexities of Apache's MTA.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Nov 1, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> 
>>> 
 From: Dave Fisher 
 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
 Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:47 PM
 Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
 
 Hi Joe,
 
 On Nov 1, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
 
> Actually you should know I'm the main
> guy who deals with the mail services
> at the ASF, so yeah considering my opinion
> as relevant might be wise ;-)
 
 openoffice.org MX at ASF questions
 
 (1) In hosting OOo MX will there be a need for any real mail boxes?
 
 (2) Any trouble with double forwarders for securityteam@OO.o?
 
 (3) There are currently about 330 MLs that the project would like to 
 forward. Kay and Rob are emailing these lists and informing about the new 
 lists.
 
 It would be good to have these ML forwarders exist as long as the ASF is 
 handling OpenOffice.org MLs.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Personally I have no interest in maintaining whatever mailing list software
>>> Sun/Oracle chose for managing their lists.  OTOH my experience with qmail
>>> suggests that such software doesn't have a lot of maintenance requirements,
>>> so if a reasonable plan were developed for migrating the lists to some ASF
>>> host that was careful not to preserve list subscriptions, I'd be willing to
>>> help with the transition.
>>> 
>>> But over time, because this service isn't a part of our main ezmlm-based
>>> mailing-list infra, we'd probably not want to be involved in its upkeep,
>>> and that means we'd be more than happy to shut it down if time proves
>>> that nobody else here wants to be bothered with that eit

Re: Ohloh

[Pedro Giffuni]

--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Eike Rathke  wrote:
...

> 
> > hmm, now Ohloh claims that i am the #1 contributor to
> OpenOffice.org, how
> > ridiculous is that...
> 
> We're superseded by pfg now ;-)
> 

Heh! I actually finished the bunch of issues I wanted to
see in AOO 3.4 so I'll give you guys some time to recover
positions :-P.

Cheers,

Pedro.

Willing help on Test

[Ji Yan]

Hi all,

  This is Yan Ji from IBM Lotus Symphony test team. I've been working in
Symphony for almost five years . It's my honour to join the community. As a
QE of Symphony my major focus is FVT in both
WordProcessor/Spreadsheet/Presentation and Install. Now I'm willing to
contribute my effort on Apache OpenOffice. Please let me know if there is
anything I can help on OO 3.4 release.

  Since most OO website are unreachable. Could someone help me to find OO
TCM or TCS, it will help me to understand how the OO test way works.
Looking forward to hear from you.


Thanks & Best Regards, Yan Ji

IBM Lotus Symphony QE, FVT & Integration
IBM China Software Development LAB, Beijing
Tel: 86-10-82454393  Notes ID: Ji Yan/China/IBM
Fax: 86-10-82451161  Email: ya...@cn.ibm.com
2/F, 28,ZhongGuanCun Software Park,No.8 Dong Bei Wang West Road, Haidian
District Beijing P.R.China 100193

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Joe Schaefer]

ezmlm and qmail are married packages.
qmail is an MTA and ezmlm is a qmail app
for managing mailing lists.

Given the surprises I've seen here by folks
getting used to the whole ezmlm feature-set,
I'm confident that Oracle is using something

other than that for ooo.

Postfix is what I'd recommend we use for dealing
with the forwarding needs, but postfix isn't compatible
with ezmlm so we'd need to run that on a separate
host.

What I'm trying to point out for you here is that
the mail server software I'd recommend for forwarding handling
and the software I'd prefer using for ML's are incompatible
with each other, and I'm not going to run some crazy
scheme to try and divvy up the domain between two
separate mail servers.

Pick your poison in other words, either the focus is
on ML's, in which case forwarding addresses only get
support limited to a select few (committers say).
Otherwise the focus is on forwarding addresses, in which
case someone other than infra will be responsible for
the upkeep of the mailing list infra for ooo.


HTH




>
>From: Dave Fisher 
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 8:37 PM
>Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>
>Hi Joe,
>
>Now I am confused you mention 3 different possible mail managers for MX for 
>openoffice.org.
>
>(1) qmail - does Oracle/Sun use this in addition to SYMPA?
>(2) ezmlm - a version of this is the ASF's MTA, correct?
>(3) postfix - is this an alternative you mention because it could support a 
>large forwarding database? and you don't want that "feature" in ezmlm?
>
>If every email to openoffice.org is either forwarded according to a database 
>or bounced.  If there are no or the minimum required by internet protocols 
>mboxes on the openoffice.org MX.
>
>What is the threshold for being incorporated into the ASF's normal ezmlm? If 
>all of the forwarders were to apache.org addresses would that work?
>
>I guess I don't understand the complexities of Apache's MTA.
>
>Regards,
>Dave
>
>On Nov 1, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
>> 
>>> From: Dave Fisher 
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>>> 
>>> Hi Joe,
>>> 
>>> On Nov 1, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>> 
 Actually you should know I'm the main
 guy who deals with the mail services
 at the ASF, so yeah considering my opinion
 as relevant might be wise ;-)
>>> 
>>> openoffice.org MX at ASF questions
>>> 
>>> (1) In hosting OOo MX will there be a need for any real mail boxes?
>>> 
>>> (2) Any trouble with double forwarders for securityteam@OO.o?
>>> 
>>> (3) There are currently about 330 MLs that the project would like to 
>>> forward. Kay and Rob are emailing these lists and informing about the new 
>>> lists.
>>> 
>>> It would be good to have these ML forwarders exist as long as the ASF is 
>>> handling OpenOffice.org MLs.
>> 
>> 
>> Personally I have no interest in maintaining whatever mailing list software
>> Sun/Oracle chose for managing their lists.  OTOH my experience with qmail
>> suggests that such software doesn't have a lot of maintenance requirements,
>> so if a reasonable plan were developed for migrating the lists to some ASF
>> host that was careful not to preserve list subscriptions, I'd be willing to
>> help with the transition.
>> 
>> But over time, because this service isn't a part of our main ezmlm-based
>> mailing-list infra, we'd probably not want to be involved in its upkeep,
>> and that means we'd be more than happy to shut it down if time proves
>> that nobody else here wants to be bothered with that either.
>> 
>> 
>> The PMC will need to sort out how to allocate its resources given that
>> constraint.  Infra is happy to assist, and willing to investigate ways
>> of incorporating openoffice.org lists into our ezmlm-based infra, but
>> that effort will be terminally hampered by the presence of all those
>> ooo forwarding addresses that I won't ever expose to qmail.  Sorry.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> (4) There are less than 100 PPMC/Committers. Some of them have their lives 
>>> revolving around their OOo forwarder.
>>> 
>>> Should we allow these trusted people to have their OOo email be forwarded. 
>>> I would say to their apache id, but I bet many people in the project have 
>>> their apache id pointing at openoffice.org. (There might be Apache 
>>> committers unrelated to AOOo with their apache id forwarding to OOo.)
>>> 
>>> What do you think?
>> 
>> 
>> Value judgements aren't things I'm equipped to make for the PMC.  I'm
>> more than happy to evalate the technical feasibility or lack thereof
>> for providing an indefinite period of support for select forwarding
>> addresses based on how the ML situation is

Re: Ohloh

[Eike Rathke]

Hi Michael,

On Sunday, 2011-10-30 21:12:58 +0100, Michael Stahl wrote:

> > As most of them were tracked as commits from our former release
> > engineers and so are misleading anyway, perhaps its not such a big loss. :-)
> 
> indeed, because of the CVS and SVN approach to merge tracking authorship
> was not properly recorded for the most part of OOo history, so the loss is
> not big.
> 
> but still, apparently Eike disagrees with that; it would have been nice to
> ask first before making this change.

I don't care much, Ohloh's statistics aren't worth a penny and as you
said Ohloh itself fouled up at times by not having been able to track
CVS or SVN branches and thus omitted more than 1 of just my own
commits.. commits of developers not release engineers were recorded only
after the move to Mercurial again.

I just found it strange to discover that history has been rewritten.

> at least the historic data is still available at the LO project, the
> history there still begins with Heiner's initial CVS import:
> https://www.ohloh.net/p/libreoffice/
> 
> the change seems especially pointless since there already was an Apache
> OOo project at Ohloh:  https://www.ohloh.net/p/apacheoffice/

Which is why I didn't understand the move.

> it seems to me that there is some kind of counting error at the new
> OpenOffice.org project: a comparison with AOOo shows that it counts every
> commit twice.

Seems to be fixed.

> also, another deficiency of most SCM systems that makes Ohloh statistics
> unreliable is that they only track the committer, but not the author of a
> commit, which is not necessarily the same person (git gets this right).

The odds are 50/50 that also Ohloh gets that right for git..

> hmm, now Ohloh claims that i am the #1 contributor to OpenOffice.org, how
> ridiculous is that...

We're superseded by pfg now ;-)

  Eike

-- 
 PGP/OpenPGP/GnuPG encrypted mail preferred in all private communication.
 Key ID: 0x293C05FD - 997A 4C60 CE41 0149 0DB3  9E96 2F1A D073 293C 05FD


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Description: Digital signature

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Joe,

Now I am confused you mention 3 different possible mail managers for MX for 
openoffice.org.

(1) qmail - does Oracle/Sun use this in addition to SYMPA?
(2) ezmlm - a version of this is the ASF's MTA, correct?
(3) postfix - is this an alternative you mention because it could support a 
large forwarding database? and you don't want that "feature" in ezmlm?

If every email to openoffice.org is either forwarded according to a database or 
bounced.  If there are no or the minimum required by internet protocols mboxes 
on the openoffice.org MX.

What is the threshold for being incorporated into the ASF's normal ezmlm? If 
all of the forwarders were to apache.org addresses would that work?

I guess I don't understand the complexities of Apache's MTA.

Regards,
Dave

On Nov 1, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:

> 
>> From: Dave Fisher 
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>> 
>> Hi Joe,
>> 
>> On Nov 1, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> 
>>> Actually you should know I'm the main
>>> guy who deals with the mail services
>>> at the ASF, so yeah considering my opinion
>>> as relevant might be wise ;-)
>> 
>> openoffice.org MX at ASF questions
>> 
>> (1) In hosting OOo MX will there be a need for any real mail boxes?
>> 
>> (2) Any trouble with double forwarders for securityteam@OO.o?
>> 
>> (3) There are currently about 330 MLs that the project would like to 
>> forward. Kay and Rob are emailing these lists and informing about the new 
>> lists.
>> 
>> It would be good to have these ML forwarders exist as long as the ASF is 
>> handling OpenOffice.org MLs.
> 
> 
> Personally I have no interest in maintaining whatever mailing list software
> Sun/Oracle chose for managing their lists.  OTOH my experience with qmail
> suggests that such software doesn't have a lot of maintenance requirements,
> so if a reasonable plan were developed for migrating the lists to some ASF
> host that was careful not to preserve list subscriptions, I'd be willing to
> help with the transition.
> 
> But over time, because this service isn't a part of our main ezmlm-based
> mailing-list infra, we'd probably not want to be involved in its upkeep,
> and that means we'd be more than happy to shut it down if time proves
> that nobody else here wants to be bothered with that either.
> 
> 
> The PMC will need to sort out how to allocate its resources given that
> constraint.  Infra is happy to assist, and willing to investigate ways
> of incorporating openoffice.org lists into our ezmlm-based infra, but
> that effort will be terminally hampered by the presence of all those
> ooo forwarding addresses that I won't ever expose to qmail.  Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> (4) There are less than 100 PPMC/Committers. Some of them have their lives 
>> revolving around their OOo forwarder.
>> 
>> Should we allow these trusted people to have their OOo email be forwarded. I 
>> would say to their apache id, but I bet many people in the project have 
>> their apache id pointing at openoffice.org. (There might be Apache 
>> committers unrelated to AOOo with their apache id forwarding to OOo.)
>> 
>> What do you think?
> 
> 
> Value judgements aren't things I'm equipped to make for the PMC.  I'm
> more than happy to evalate the technical feasibility or lack thereof
> for providing an indefinite period of support for select forwarding
> addresses based on how the ML situation is to be dealt with.
> 
> 
>> 
>> Does the size of groups (3) and (4) bother you if these are continued for a 
>> long time?
>> 
>> (5) There are identifiable and relatively large numbers of individuals with 
>> OOo in other systems where we think it would be good to continue for some 
>> time measured in months. Rob has numbers in the 40,000 or 80,000 range.
>> 
>> This would be phased out or terminated.
>> 
>> Does the initial size of (5) bother you?
> 
> 
> No. It just means a flat file storage system won't work.  We'll need to use a 
> proper
> (non-relational) database, and fortunately postfix supports several of them.

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Joe Schaefer]

>From: Dave Fisher 
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:47 PM
>Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>
>Hi Joe,
>
>On Nov 1, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
>> Actually you should know I'm the main
>> guy who deals with the mail services
>> at the ASF, so yeah considering my opinion
>> as relevant might be wise ;-)
>
>openoffice.org MX at ASF questions
>
>(1) In hosting OOo MX will there be a need for any real mail boxes?
>
>(2) Any trouble with double forwarders for securityteam@OO.o?
>
>(3) There are currently about 330 MLs that the project would like to forward. 
>Kay and Rob are emailing these lists and informing about the new lists.
>
>It would be good to have these ML forwarders exist as long as the ASF is 
>handling OpenOffice.org MLs.


Personally I have no interest in maintaining whatever mailing list software
Sun/Oracle chose for managing their lists.  OTOH my experience with qmail
suggests that such software doesn't have a lot of maintenance requirements,
so if a reasonable plan were developed for migrating the lists to some ASF
host that was careful not to preserve list subscriptions, I'd be willing to
help with the transition.

But over time, because this service isn't a part of our main ezmlm-based
mailing-list infra, we'd probably not want to be involved in its upkeep,
and that means we'd be more than happy to shut it down if time proves
that nobody else here wants to be bothered with that either.


The PMC will need to sort out how to allocate its resources given that
constraint.  Infra is happy to assist, and willing to investigate ways
of incorporating openoffice.org lists into our ezmlm-based infra, but
that effort will be terminally hampered by the presence of all those
ooo forwarding addresses that I won't ever expose to qmail.  Sorry.



>
>(4) There are less than 100 PPMC/Committers. Some of them have their lives 
>revolving around their OOo forwarder.
>
>Should we allow these trusted people to have their OOo email be forwarded. I 
>would say to their apache id, but I bet many people in the project have their 
>apache id pointing at openoffice.org. (There might be Apache committers 
>unrelated to AOOo with their apache id forwarding to OOo.)
>
>What do you think?


Value judgements aren't things I'm equipped to make for the PMC.  I'm
more than happy to evalate the technical feasibility or lack thereof
for providing an indefinite period of support for select forwarding
addresses based on how the ML situation is to be dealt with.


>
>Does the size of groups (3) and (4) bother you if these are continued for a 
>long time?
>
>(5) There are identifiable and relatively large numbers of individuals with 
>OOo in other systems where we think it would be good to continue for some time 
>measured in months. Rob has numbers in the 40,000 or 80,000 range.
>
>This would be phased out or terminated.
>
>Does the initial size of (5) bother you?


No. It just means a flat file storage system won't work.  We'll need to use a 
proper
(non-relational) database, and fortunately postfix supports several of them.

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Joe,

On Nov 1, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:

> Actually you should know I'm the main
> guy who deals with the mail services
> at the ASF, so yeah considering my opinion
> as relevant might be wise ;-)

openoffice.org MX at ASF questions

(1) In hosting OOo MX will there be a need for any real mail boxes?

(2) Any trouble with double forwarders for securityteam@OO.o?

(3) There are currently about 330 MLs that the project would like to forward. 
Kay and Rob are emailing these lists and informing about the new lists.

It would be good to have these ML forwarders exist as long as the ASF is 
handling OpenOffice.org MLs.

(4) There are less than 100 PPMC/Committers. Some of them have their lives 
revolving around their OOo forwarder.

Should we allow these trusted people to have their OOo email be forwarded. I 
would say to their apache id, but I bet many people in the project have their 
apache id pointing at openoffice.org. (There might be Apache committers 
unrelated to AOOo with their apache id forwarding to OOo.)

What do you think?

Does the size of groups (3) and (4) bother you if these are continued for a 
long time?

(5) There are identifiable and relatively large numbers of individuals with OOo 
in other systems where we think it would be good to continue for some time 
measured in months. Rob has numbers in the 40,000 or 80,000 range.

This would be phased out or terminated.

Does the initial size of (5) bother you?

Regards,
Dave 



> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> From: Dave Fisher 
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 6:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>> 
>> Hi Joe,
>> 
>> On Nov 1, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> 
>>> Sigh, forwarding aliases are simply rows in a
>>> databasesomewhere.  At one point that database
>>> was owned by Oracle, and they certainly can
>>> transfer it's contents to us without any concerns
>>> about privacy violations.  This has nothing to
>>> do with mailing list subscriptions, which are
>>> a completely separate issue.  If Oracle doesn't
>>> transfer the forward data to us, they stop working
>>> altogether, and no reasonable active users are expecting
>>> that to happen.  OTOH I have no interest at all in
>>> supporting the continued use of those forwarders
>>> beyond their existence in legacy OOo applications,
>>> and even there I'd like to see a reasonable and concerted
>>> effort to phase them out completely over a significant
>>> time period.
>> 
>> I think most of us agree that we do not want to keep these @OOo forwarders 
>> around for very long.
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I didn't see anyone respond to my earlier suggestion,
>>> so I fear I may have been too reasonable forthis list.
>> 
>> Sorry, I should have. Whatever is decided you are the one who will help make 
>> it so!
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 
 From: Dennis E. Hamilton 
 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
 Cc: 'Lawrence Rosen' 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 4:58 PM
 Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Lawrence Rosen [mailto:lro...@rosenlaw.com]
 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:48
 To: orc...@apache.org; 'OOo-dev Apache Incubator '
 Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen'
 Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
 
 Dennis Hamilton wrote:
> There are problems concerning migration of
> yourn...@openoffice.org, listn...@openoffice.org, and
> servicen...@openoffice.org.  Consequently, all
 ? yourn...@openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the
> migration goes into its final stages sometime in November.
 
 Is openoffice.org going away or itself being renamed in November? I must 
 have 
 missed that announcement
 
 
No, openoffice.org, the domain name, is being preserved,
along with migration of the site's static content and the
interactive bugzilla, wiki, and forums services.
 
There are other services of the web site that are not
being preserved.  This includes mailing lists that
are operated (with addresses such as users@ openoffice.org)
and an e-mail forwarding and identification service
using addresses like myname@ openoffice.org (not
entirely unlike orcmid@ apache.org and orcmid as an ID).
 
Some services running at the original http:// *.OO.o
web locations rely on the myname and myname@ OO.o as
part of an identity system.  It is also the case that
myname@ OO.o is a kind of widely-available va

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dave Fisher]

On Nov 1, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Joe,
>> 
>> On Nov 1, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> 
>>> Sigh, forwarding aliases are simply rows in a
>>> databasesomewhere.  At one point that database
>>> was owned by Oracle, and they certainly can
>>> transfer it's contents to us without any concerns
>>> about privacy violations.  This has nothing to
>>> do with mailing list subscriptions, which are
>>> a completely separate issue.  If Oracle doesn't
>>> transfer the forward data to us, they stop working
>>> altogether, and no reasonable active users are expecting
>>> that to happen.  OTOH I have no interest at all in
>>> supporting the continued use of those forwarders
>>> beyond their existence in legacy OOo applications,
>>> and even there I'd like to see a reasonable and concerted
>>> effort to phase them out completely over a significant
>>> time period.
>> 
>> I think most of us agree that we do not want to keep these @OOo forwarders
>> around for very long.
>> 
> 
> I am sorry but most of my virtual life is wired to my @ooo account. Which I
> by no means want to give up.
> 
> I wonder how many of this opinions are from people that have never used one
> and have no problem thinking is not good acording to their world. For me it
> would be similar to getting beheaded with a wooden knife.

I can relate. Due to an acquisition I recently had to give up my email address 
of 15 years.

I've been thinking that a compromise might be to offer AOOo(i) committers 
explicit rows in the OOo forwarding table that JoeS mentioned.

Regards,
Dave


> 
> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I didn't see anyone respond to my earlier suggestion,
>>> so I fear I may have been too reasonable forthis list.
>> 
>> Sorry, I should have. Whatever is decided you are the one who will help
>> make it so!
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 
 From: Dennis E. Hamilton 
 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
 Cc: 'Lawrence Rosen' 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 4:58 PM
 Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail
>> addresses
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Lawrence Rosen [mailto:lro...@rosenlaw.com]
 <
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/20.mbox/%3c049501cc98be$68f003b0$3ad00b10$@com%3e
>>> 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:48
 To: orc...@apache.org; 'OOo-dev Apache Incubator '
 Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen'
 Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail
>> addresses
 
 Dennis Hamilton wrote:
> There are problems concerning migration of
> yourn...@openoffice.org, listn...@openoffice.org, and
> servicen...@openoffice.org.  Consequently, all
 ? yourn...@openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the
> migration goes into its final stages sometime in November.
 
 Is openoffice.org going away or itself being renamed in November? I
>> must have
 missed that announcement
 
 
  No, openoffice.org, the domain name, is being preserved,
  along with migration of the site's static content and the
  interactive bugzilla, wiki, and forums services.
 
  There are other services of the web site that are not
  being preserved.  This includes mailing lists that
  are operated (with addresses such as users@ openoffice.org)
  and an e-mail forwarding and identification service
  using addresses like myname@ openoffice.org (not
  entirely unlike orcmid@ apache.org and orcmid as an ID).
 
  Some services running at the original http:// *.OO.o
  web locations rely on the myname and myname@ OO.o as
  part of an identity system.  It is also the case that
  myname@ OO.o is a kind of widely-available vanity
  email address that is forwarded by the service @ OO.o.
  These addresses have been used, of course, as also a way
  to receive mail, with the myname@ OO.o forwarded to a
  "real" receiving address specified by the holder of
  myname@ OO.o.
 
 
>  1. The presumption is that these addresses (and sometimes the
> services) cannot be preserved in the migration of the
> http://*.openoffice.org properties from Oracle custody to
> Apache custody, even though the domain name can be preserved.
 
 I don't understand that presumption. Custody of a website has nothing
>> to do
 with the addresses within it or accessing it.
 
 
  The problem is not with custody but with services operated
  at that address once the domain and the hosting is in
  Apache custody.  The presumption is that there will be no
  migration of the software nor the data that supports the e-mail
  forwarding and the user's ability to control the destination of
  the e-mail forwarding.  So, when the hosting is 

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Alexandro Colorado]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:

> Hi Joe,
>
> On Nov 1, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
> > Sigh, forwarding aliases are simply rows in a
> > databasesomewhere.  At one point that database
> > was owned by Oracle, and they certainly can
> > transfer it's contents to us without any concerns
> > about privacy violations.  This has nothing to
> > do with mailing list subscriptions, which are
> > a completely separate issue.  If Oracle doesn't
> > transfer the forward data to us, they stop working
> > altogether, and no reasonable active users are expecting
> > that to happen.  OTOH I have no interest at all in
> > supporting the continued use of those forwarders
> > beyond their existence in legacy OOo applications,
> > and even there I'd like to see a reasonable and concerted
> > effort to phase them out completely over a significant
> > time period.
>
> I think most of us agree that we do not want to keep these @OOo forwarders
> around for very long.
>

I am sorry but most of my virtual life is wired to my @ooo account. Which I
by no means want to give up.

I wonder how many of this opinions are from people that have never used one
and have no problem thinking is not good acording to their world. For me it
would be similar to getting beheaded with a wooden knife.


>
> >
> >
> > I didn't see anyone respond to my earlier suggestion,
> > so I fear I may have been too reasonable forthis list.
>
> Sorry, I should have. Whatever is decided you are the one who will help
> make it so!
>
> Best Regards,
> Dave
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> 
> >> From: Dennis E. Hamilton 
> >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Cc: 'Lawrence Rosen' 
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 4:58 PM
> >> Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail
> addresses
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Lawrence Rosen [mailto:lro...@rosenlaw.com]
> >> <
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/20.mbox/%3c049501cc98be$68f003b0$3ad00b10$@com%3e
> >
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:48
> >> To: orc...@apache.org; 'OOo-dev Apache Incubator '
> >> Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen'
> >> Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail
> addresses
> >>
> >> Dennis Hamilton wrote:
> >>> There are problems concerning migration of
> >>> yourn...@openoffice.org, listn...@openoffice.org, and
> >>> servicen...@openoffice.org.  Consequently, all
> >> ? yourn...@openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the
> >>> migration goes into its final stages sometime in November.
> >>
> >> Is openoffice.org going away or itself being renamed in November? I
> must have
> >> missed that announcement
> >>
> >> 
> >>   No, openoffice.org, the domain name, is being preserved,
> >>   along with migration of the site's static content and the
> >>   interactive bugzilla, wiki, and forums services.
> >>
> >>   There are other services of the web site that are not
> >>   being preserved.  This includes mailing lists that
> >>   are operated (with addresses such as users@ openoffice.org)
> >>   and an e-mail forwarding and identification service
> >>   using addresses like myname@ openoffice.org (not
> >>   entirely unlike orcmid@ apache.org and orcmid as an ID).
> >>
> >>   Some services running at the original http:// *.OO.o
> >>   web locations rely on the myname and myname@ OO.o as
> >>   part of an identity system.  It is also the case that
> >>   myname@ OO.o is a kind of widely-available vanity
> >>   email address that is forwarded by the service @ OO.o.
> >>   These addresses have been used, of course, as also a way
> >>   to receive mail, with the myname@ OO.o forwarded to a
> >>   "real" receiving address specified by the holder of
> >>   myname@ OO.o.
> >> 
> >>
> >>>   1. The presumption is that these addresses (and sometimes the
> >>> services) cannot be preserved in the migration of the
> >>> http://*.openoffice.org properties from Oracle custody to
> >>> Apache custody, even though the domain name can be preserved.
> >>
> >> I don't understand that presumption. Custody of a website has nothing
> to do
> >> with the addresses within it or accessing it.
> >>
> >> 
> >>   The problem is not with custody but with services operated
> >>   at that address once the domain and the hosting is in
> >>   Apache custody.  The presumption is that there will be no
> >>   migration of the software nor the data that supports the e-mail
> >>   forwarding and the user's ability to control the destination of
> >>   the e-mail forwarding.  So, when the hosting is done by
> >>   Apache, it is expected that this service and its data will
> >>   be lost.
> >>
> >>   Note, this is not so much about the addresses of the site,
> >>   but how name@ OO.o is forwarded when it is not
> >>   actually the address of part of the site (or, in the case
> >>   of mailing lists, even when it is).
> >> 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>   

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Rob,

On Nov 1, 2011, at 2:14 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
>> Rob speaketh,
>> 
>>   ... let's admit that almost all of the 500,000 openoffice.org
>>   addresses are unused or were created by spammers and have zero
>>   relevancy to the project.
>> 
>> So, what is "almost all" of 500,000, and how can it be determined?  How many
>> are left?
>> 
> 
> If you run a report on the BZ instance you see only 8700 or so unique
> ID's have ever been used for submitting defects.  So 83% of the
> 500,000 ID's are irrelevant from the perspective of BZ.  Maybe the
> remaining 420,000 users are furiously editing the wiki, but somehow I
> doubt that as well.
> 
> We could narrow that down further by those who are reporters on issues
> that are still open and get a more manageable number that could be
> send a notification that the openoffice.org mail forwarder is going
> away, with instructions on how to reset their email.

Can you get the tuple of @OOo address and forwarding address? These become 
database rows in the temporary forwarder that Joe mentioned.

Would we do that for the MWiki and Forums in order to ease the phase out there?

Regards,
Dave


> 
> In any case, let's stop with the hysteria of the 500,000 accounts.
> That has no basis in reality.  Not even LibreOffice is claiming that
> many project participants.
> 
>> It would be more interesting to know how many forwards are happening via
>> @openoffice.org over recent times, yes?
>> 
> 
> The number of forwards is irrelevant from the perspective of the
> project.  ASF is not in the business of forwarding emails.  What is
> relevant is our ability to communicate with people who have submitted
> defect reports.   I think there are far easier ways of accomplishing
> this, provided we act diligently and start notifying users that the
> forwarding accounts are going away.  Remember, the openoffice.org
> email address aliases are public.  Anyone can create a report of such
> user accounts in BZ and send them a note.  So no data protection
> issues are involved in notifying them that the service is going away.

> 
> -Rob
> 
>> Do you have that information?  Can it be obtained?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:13
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Pedro Giffuni  wrote:
>>> --- On Tue, 11/1/11, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>>> 
 
 Questions for the BZ, Forums and MWiki. Is there a way for
 people registered in those systems with an @OOo email to
 change their address without losing their content?
 
>>> 
>>> I won't miss what I never had, but ...
>>> 
>>> For BZ it's easy to change the email address. Just go to
>>> Preferences --> Account information.
>>> 
>> 
>> So is there any way to solve a more constrained problem?  In other
>> words, let's admit that almost all of the 500,000 openoffice.org
>> addresses are unused or were created by spammers and have zero
>> relevancy to the project.
>> 
>> Instead, we could look at all new BZ issues created in the last year,
>> all forum and wiki members who have logged in in the last year, and
>> all ooo-* list members.  From those lists, get the list of all those
>> with openoffice.org addresses.  Send them a note saying that the
>> forwarding service is going away.  Tell them how to reset their email
>> address in the tools.  On top of that put a prominent notice on the
>> wiki, forums and website to catch any users we might have missed.
>> 
>> -Rob
>> 
>> 
>>> cheers,
>>> 
>>> Pedro.
>>> 
>> 

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Joe Schaefer]

Actually you should know I'm the main
guy who deals with the mail services
at the ASF, so yeah considering my opinion
as relevant might be wise ;-)




>
>From: Dave Fisher 
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Cc: "orc...@apache.org" ; 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 6:38 PM
>Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>
>Hi Joe,
>
>On Nov 1, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
>> Sigh, forwarding aliases are simply rows in a
>> databasesomewhere.  At one point that database
>> was owned by Oracle, and they certainly can
>> transfer it's contents to us without any concerns
>> about privacy violations.  This has nothing to
>> do with mailing list subscriptions, which are
>> a completely separate issue.  If Oracle doesn't
>> transfer the forward data to us, they stop working
>> altogether, and no reasonable active users are expecting
>> that to happen.  OTOH I have no interest at all in
>> supporting the continued use of those forwarders
>> beyond their existence in legacy OOo applications,
>> and even there I'd like to see a reasonable and concerted
>> effort to phase them out completely over a significant
>> time period.
>
>I think most of us agree that we do not want to keep these @OOo forwarders 
>around for very long.
>
>> 
>> 
>> I didn't see anyone respond to my earlier suggestion,
>> so I fear I may have been too reasonable forthis list.
>
>Sorry, I should have. Whatever is decided you are the one who will help make 
>it so!
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave
>
>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Dennis E. Hamilton 
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Cc: 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 4:58 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Lawrence Rosen [mailto:lro...@rosenlaw.com]
>>> 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:48
>>> To: orc...@apache.org; 'OOo-dev Apache Incubator '
>>> Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen'
>>> Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>>> 
>>> Dennis Hamilton wrote:
 There are problems concerning migration of
 yourn...@openoffice.org, listn...@openoffice.org, and
 servicen...@openoffice.org.  Consequently, all
>>> ? yourn...@openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the
 migration goes into its final stages sometime in November.
>>> 
>>> Is openoffice.org going away or itself being renamed in November? I must 
>>> have 
>>> missed that announcement
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   No, openoffice.org, the domain name, is being preserved,
>>>   along with migration of the site's static content and the
>>>   interactive bugzilla, wiki, and forums services.
>>> 
>>>   There are other services of the web site that are not
>>>   being preserved.  This includes mailing lists that
>>>   are operated (with addresses such as users@ openoffice.org)
>>>   and an e-mail forwarding and identification service
>>>   using addresses like myname@ openoffice.org (not
>>>   entirely unlike orcmid@ apache.org and orcmid as an ID).
>>> 
>>>   Some services running at the original http:// *.OO.o
>>>   web locations rely on the myname and myname@ OO.o as
>>>   part of an identity system.  It is also the case that
>>>   myname@ OO.o is a kind of widely-available vanity
>>>   email address that is forwarded by the service @ OO.o.
>>>   These addresses have been used, of course, as also a way
>>>   to receive mail, with the myname@ OO.o forwarded to a
>>>   "real" receiving address specified by the holder of
>>>   myname@ OO.o.
>>> 
>>> 
   1. The presumption is that these addresses (and sometimes the
 services) cannot be preserved in the migration of the
 http://*.openoffice.org properties from Oracle custody to
 Apache custody, even though the domain name can be preserved.
>>> 
>>> I don't understand that presumption. Custody of a website has nothing to do 
>>> with the addresses within it or accessing it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   The problem is not with custody but with services operated
>>>   at that address once the domain and the hosting is in
>>>   Apache custody.  The presumption is that there will be no
>>>   migration of the software nor the data that supports the e-mail
>>>   forwarding and the user's ability to control the destination of
>>>   the e-mail forwarding.  So, when the hosting is done by
>>>   Apache, it is expected that this service and its data will
>>>   be lost.
>>> 
>>>   Note, this is not so much about the addresses of the site,
>>>   but how name@ OO.o is forwarded when it is not
>>>   actually the address of part of the site (or, in the case
>>>   of mailing lists, even when it is).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
   2. There is an untested presumption that it is not legal to

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Joe,

On Nov 1, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:

> Sigh, forwarding aliases are simply rows in a
> databasesomewhere.  At one point that database
> was owned by Oracle, and they certainly can
> transfer it's contents to us without any concerns
> about privacy violations.  This has nothing to
> do with mailing list subscriptions, which are
> a completely separate issue.  If Oracle doesn't
> transfer the forward data to us, they stop working
> altogether, and no reasonable active users are expecting
> that to happen.  OTOH I have no interest at all in
> supporting the continued use of those forwarders
> beyond their existence in legacy OOo applications,
> and even there I'd like to see a reasonable and concerted
> effort to phase them out completely over a significant
> time period.

I think most of us agree that we do not want to keep these @OOo forwarders 
around for very long.

> 
> 
> I didn't see anyone respond to my earlier suggestion,
> so I fear I may have been too reasonable forthis list.

Sorry, I should have. Whatever is decided you are the one who will help make it 
so!

Best Regards,
Dave


> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> From: Dennis E. Hamilton 
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Cc: 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 4:58 PM
>> Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Lawrence Rosen [mailto:lro...@rosenlaw.com]
>> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:48
>> To: orc...@apache.org; 'OOo-dev Apache Incubator '
>> Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen'
>> Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>> 
>> Dennis Hamilton wrote:
>>> There are problems concerning migration of
>>> yourn...@openoffice.org, listn...@openoffice.org, and
>>> servicen...@openoffice.org.  Consequently, all
>> ? yourn...@openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the
>>> migration goes into its final stages sometime in November.
>> 
>> Is openoffice.org going away or itself being renamed in November? I must 
>> have 
>> missed that announcement
>> 
>> 
>>   No, openoffice.org, the domain name, is being preserved,
>>   along with migration of the site's static content and the
>>   interactive bugzilla, wiki, and forums services.
>> 
>>   There are other services of the web site that are not
>>   being preserved.  This includes mailing lists that
>>   are operated (with addresses such as users@ openoffice.org)
>>   and an e-mail forwarding and identification service
>>   using addresses like myname@ openoffice.org (not
>>   entirely unlike orcmid@ apache.org and orcmid as an ID).
>> 
>>   Some services running at the original http:// *.OO.o
>>   web locations rely on the myname and myname@ OO.o as
>>   part of an identity system.  It is also the case that
>>   myname@ OO.o is a kind of widely-available vanity
>>   email address that is forwarded by the service @ OO.o.
>>   These addresses have been used, of course, as also a way
>>   to receive mail, with the myname@ OO.o forwarded to a
>>   "real" receiving address specified by the holder of
>>   myname@ OO.o.
>> 
>> 
>>>   1. The presumption is that these addresses (and sometimes the
>>> services) cannot be preserved in the migration of the
>>> http://*.openoffice.org properties from Oracle custody to
>>> Apache custody, even though the domain name can be preserved.
>> 
>> I don't understand that presumption. Custody of a website has nothing to do 
>> with the addresses within it or accessing it.
>> 
>> 
>>   The problem is not with custody but with services operated
>>   at that address once the domain and the hosting is in
>>   Apache custody.  The presumption is that there will be no
>>   migration of the software nor the data that supports the e-mail
>>   forwarding and the user's ability to control the destination of
>>   the e-mail forwarding.  So, when the hosting is done by
>>   Apache, it is expected that this service and its data will
>>   be lost.
>> 
>>   Note, this is not so much about the addresses of the site,
>>   but how name@ OO.o is forwarded when it is not
>>   actually the address of part of the site (or, in the case
>>   of mailing lists, even when it is).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>   2. There is an untested presumption that it is not legal to
>>> transfer those forwarding accounts because of rules about
>>> privacy and European trans-national data-sharing regulations.
>> 
>> If you can articulate this concern more clearly, I'll forward it to European 
>> attorneys who can advise us.
>> 
>> 
>>   The holder of a myname@ openoffice.org has a password for
>>   managing this little account.  In addition, the email
>>   address to which myname @OO.o is forwarded is kept in
>>   the account record.  Other information and parameters
>>   are either public or not pe

Re: MacOS X Lion compatible

[Dave Fisher]

On Nov 1, 2011, at 2:18 PM, Thorsten Behrens wrote:

> Dave Fisher wrote:
>>> The user has given me some details to reproduce.  This seems
>>> appear when LibO is already installed.  If you add OOo, the
>>> install process try to retreive the LibO profile The problem is
>>> fixed if LibO is uninstalled.
>>> 
>> 
>> This LibO and OOo thinking they are the same application is a
>> continual problem. It would have been nice if LibO made themselves
>> distinct.
>> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> LibO uses ~/Library/Application Support/LibreOffice (not
> OpenOffice.org) - please don't jump to conclusions just yet. Beyond
> that, we always welcome patches to make LibreOffice even more
> distinct. :)

Sorry, if I appeared to jump to a conclusion. It is just that I have seen 
different reports of either LO or OOo not running if the other is running.

There was one in the OOo users list about portable LO not starting because OOo 
was active. So there are conflicts. No implication that this is intentional 
just a fact of originally being the same codebase. Registrations on various 
systems is hard. I've had the "joy" of writing installation code for .Net 
assemblies and that is not fun.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -- Thorsten, referring to the fact that the whole bug report looks
> somewhat under-researched ...

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Rob Weir]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> Rob speaketh,
>
>   ... let's admit that almost all of the 500,000 openoffice.org
>   addresses are unused or were created by spammers and have zero
>   relevancy to the project.
>
> So, what is "almost all" of 500,000, and how can it be determined?  How many
> are left?
>

If you run a report on the BZ instance you see only 8700 or so unique
ID's have ever been used for submitting defects.  So 83% of the
500,000 ID's are irrelevant from the perspective of BZ.  Maybe the
remaining 420,000 users are furiously editing the wiki, but somehow I
doubt that as well.

We could narrow that down further by those who are reporters on issues
that are still open and get a more manageable number that could be
send a notification that the openoffice.org mail forwarder is going
away, with instructions on how to reset their email.

In any case, let's stop with the hysteria of the 500,000 accounts.
That has no basis in reality.  Not even LibreOffice is claiming that
many project participants.

> It would be more interesting to know how many forwards are happening via
> @openoffice.org over recent times, yes?
>

The number of forwards is irrelevant from the perspective of the
project.  ASF is not in the business of forwarding emails.  What is
relevant is our ability to communicate with people who have submitted
defect reports.   I think there are far easier ways of accomplishing
this, provided we act diligently and start notifying users that the
forwarding accounts are going away.  Remember, the openoffice.org
email address aliases are public.  Anyone can create a report of such
user accounts in BZ and send them a note.  So no data protection
issues are involved in notifying them that the service is going away.

-Rob

> Do you have that information?  Can it be obtained?
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:13
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Pedro Giffuni  wrote:
>> --- On Tue, 11/1/11, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Questions for the BZ, Forums and MWiki. Is there a way for
>>> people registered in those systems with an @OOo email to
>>> change their address without losing their content?
>>>
>>
>> I won't miss what I never had, but ...
>>
>> For BZ it's easy to change the email address. Just go to
>> Preferences --> Account information.
>>
>
> So is there any way to solve a more constrained problem?  In other
> words, let's admit that almost all of the 500,000 openoffice.org
> addresses are unused or were created by spammers and have zero
> relevancy to the project.
>
> Instead, we could look at all new BZ issues created in the last year,
> all forum and wiki members who have logged in in the last year, and
> all ooo-* list members.  From those lists, get the list of all those
> with openoffice.org addresses.  Send them a note saying that the
> forwarding service is going away.  Tell them how to reset their email
> address in the tools.  On top of that put a prominent notice on the
> wiki, forums and website to catch any users we might have missed.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Pedro.
>>
>

Re: MacOS X Lion compatible

[Thorsten Behrens]

Dave Fisher wrote:
> > The user has given me some details to reproduce.  This seems
> > appear when LibO is already installed.  If you add OOo, the
> > install process try to retreive the LibO profile The problem is
> > fixed if LibO is uninstalled.
> > 
> 
> This LibO and OOo thinking they are the same application is a
> continual problem. It would have been nice if LibO made themselves
> distinct.
> 
Hi Dave,

LibO uses ~/Library/Application Support/LibreOffice (not
OpenOffice.org) - please don't jump to conclusions just yet. Beyond
that, we always welcome patches to make LibreOffice even more
distinct. :)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten, referring to the fact that the whole bug report looks
somewhat under-researched ...


pgpFSa778fp3Y.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Joe Schaefer]

Sigh, forwarding aliases are simply rows in a
databasesomewhere.  At one point that database
was owned by Oracle, and they certainly can
transfer it's contents to us without any concerns
about privacy violations.  This has nothing to
do with mailing list subscriptions, which are
a completely separate issue.  If Oracle doesn't
transfer the forward data to us, they stop working
altogether, and no reasonable active users are expecting
that to happen.  OTOH I have no interest at all in
supporting the continued use of those forwarders
beyond their existence in legacy OOo applications,
and even there I'd like to see a reasonable and concerted
effort to phase them out completely over a significant
time period.


I didn't see anyone respond to my earlier suggestion,
so I fear I may have been too reasonable forthis list.





>
>From: Dennis E. Hamilton 
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Cc: 'Lawrence Rosen' 
>Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 4:58 PM
>Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Lawrence Rosen [mailto:lro...@rosenlaw.com]
>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:48
>To: orc...@apache.org; 'OOo-dev Apache Incubator '
>Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen'
>Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>
>Dennis Hamilton wrote:
>> There are problems concerning migration of
>> yourn...@openoffice.org, listn...@openoffice.org, and
>> servicen...@openoffice.org.  Consequently, all
>? yourn...@openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the
>> migration goes into its final stages sometime in November.
>
>Is openoffice.org going away or itself being renamed in November? I must have 
>missed that announcement
>
>
>  No, openoffice.org, the domain name, is being preserved,
>  along with migration of the site's static content and the
>  interactive bugzilla, wiki, and forums services.
>
>  There are other services of the web site that are not
>  being preserved.  This includes mailing lists that
>  are operated (with addresses such as users@ openoffice.org)
>  and an e-mail forwarding and identification service
>  using addresses like myname@ openoffice.org (not
>  entirely unlike orcmid@ apache.org and orcmid as an ID).
>
>  Some services running at the original http:// *.OO.o
>  web locations rely on the myname and myname@ OO.o as
>  part of an identity system.  It is also the case that
>  myname@ OO.o is a kind of widely-available vanity
>  email address that is forwarded by the service @ OO.o.
>  These addresses have been used, of course, as also a way
>  to receive mail, with the myname@ OO.o forwarded to a
>  "real" receiving address specified by the holder of
>  myname@ OO.o.
>
>
>>  1. The presumption is that these addresses (and sometimes the
>> services) cannot be preserved in the migration of the
>> http://*.openoffice.org properties from Oracle custody to
>> Apache custody, even though the domain name can be preserved.
>
>I don't understand that presumption. Custody of a website has nothing to do 
>with the addresses within it or accessing it.
>
>
>  The problem is not with custody but with services operated
>  at that address once the domain and the hosting is in
>  Apache custody.  The presumption is that there will be no
>  migration of the software nor the data that supports the e-mail
>  forwarding and the user's ability to control the destination of
>  the e-mail forwarding.  So, when the hosting is done by
>  Apache, it is expected that this service and its data will
>  be lost.
>
>  Note, this is not so much about the addresses of the site,
>  but how name@ OO.o is forwarded when it is not
>  actually the address of part of the site (or, in the case
>  of mailing lists, even when it is).
>
>
>
>
>>  2. There is an untested presumption that it is not legal to
>> transfer those forwarding accounts because of rules about
>> privacy and European trans-national data-sharing regulations.
>
>If you can articulate this concern more clearly, I'll forward it to European 
>attorneys who can advise us.
>
>
>  The holder of a myname@ openoffice.org has a password for
>  managing this little account.  In addition, the email
>  address to which myname @OO.o is forwarded is kept in
>  the account record.  Other information and parameters
>  are either public or not personal.
>     If the e-mail address to which forwarding occurs is
>  considered private data, there is a concern that having
>  the list be moved into Apache custody might constitute
>  an infraction of some privacy policy or even regulatory
>  policies concerning the handling and sharing of private
>  information.
>     The current location of storage of the list and
>  operation of the forwarding service may be material
>  factors in this case.
>
>
>
>> There is speculation that t

RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Rosen [mailto:lro...@rosenlaw.com]

Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:48
To: orc...@apache.org; 'OOo-dev Apache Incubator '
Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen'
Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

Dennis Hamilton wrote:
> There are problems concerning migration of
> yourn...@openoffice.org, listn...@openoffice.org, and
> servicen...@openoffice.org.  Consequently, all
? yourn...@openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the
> migration goes into its final stages sometime in November.

Is openoffice.org going away or itself being renamed in November? I must have 
missed that announcement


  No, openoffice.org, the domain name, is being preserved,
  along with migration of the site's static content and the
  interactive bugzilla, wiki, and forums services.

  There are other services of the web site that are not
  being preserved.  This includes mailing lists that
  are operated (with addresses such as users@ openoffice.org)
  and an e-mail forwarding and identification service
  using addresses like myname@ openoffice.org (not
  entirely unlike orcmid@ apache.org and orcmid as an ID).

  Some services running at the original http:// *.OO.o
  web locations rely on the myname and myname@ OO.o as
  part of an identity system.  It is also the case that
  myname@ OO.o is a kind of widely-available vanity
  email address that is forwarded by the service @ OO.o.
  These addresses have been used, of course, as also a way
  to receive mail, with the myname@ OO.o forwarded to a
  "real" receiving address specified by the holder of
  myname@ OO.o.


>  1. The presumption is that these addresses (and sometimes the
> services) cannot be preserved in the migration of the
> http://*.openoffice.org properties from Oracle custody to
> Apache custody, even though the domain name can be preserved.

I don't understand that presumption. Custody of a website has nothing to do 
with the addresses within it or accessing it.


  The problem is not with custody but with services operated
  at that address once the domain and the hosting is in
  Apache custody.  The presumption is that there will be no
  migration of the software nor the data that supports the e-mail
  forwarding and the user's ability to control the destination of
  the e-mail forwarding.  So, when the hosting is done by
  Apache, it is expected that this service and its data will
  be lost.

  Note, this is not so much about the addresses of the site,
  but how name@ OO.o is forwarded when it is not
  actually the address of part of the site (or, in the case
  of mailing lists, even when it is).




>  2. There is an untested presumption that it is not legal to
> transfer those forwarding accounts because of rules about
> privacy and European trans-national data-sharing regulations.

If you can articulate this concern more clearly, I'll forward it to European 
attorneys who can advise us.


  The holder of a myname@ openoffice.org has a password for
  managing this little account.  In addition, the email
  address to which myname @OO.o is forwarded is kept in
  the account record.  Other information and parameters
  are either public or not personal.
 If the e-mail address to which forwarding occurs is
  considered private data, there is a concern that having
  the list be moved into Apache custody might constitute
  an infraction of some privacy policy or even regulatory
  policies concerning the handling and sharing of private
  information.
 The current location of storage of the list and
  operation of the forwarding service may be material
  factors in this case.



> There is speculation that the disruption of e-mail is tolerable
> and that most of the current accounts have been abandoned.
> That view seems to ignore the importance of these identifiers
> as part of the provenance structure for contributions to the
> open-source project and the integrity of the code base and
> related artifacts.

I cannot personally judge the technical obstacles you identify, but my gut 
tells me that we shouldn't disrupt the existing flow of Open Office activities 
simply because ownership has transferred to Apache. Nor will it be reasonable 
to ask our Infra team to manage 100K+ additional email accounts.

Can you advise us what the minimum that has to be done in order to let Open 
Office continue in non-crisis mode about this?


  There are two minima that I see.

  One is to allow the forwarding system to cease operation
  and let the breakdowns be whatever they are.

  The other is to arrange for the forwarding service to be
  migrated along with the site and operated as part of the
  re-hosted site still under the openoffice.org domain.
  This will require cooperation between Oracle and Apache
  Infrastructure.  Depending on the software involve

RE: Addressbook replacement: CardDAV

[Pedro Giffuni]

Hi;

I am very new to this but it doesn't look like that would be
an issue compared the rest of what needs to be rewritten :-P.

Andre "wikied" this link on how things work right now:

http://dba.openoffice.org/specifications/address_book_architecture.html

CardDAV is a completely different (new) IETF standard and
it looks like we need WebDAV to start with.

The Mulberry vCard Library looks good for our purposes,
though:

http://trac.mulberrymail.com/repos/browser/vCard

cheers,

Pedro.


--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:

> From: Dennis E. Hamilton 
> Subject: RE: Addressbook replacement: CardDAV
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org, p...@apache.org
> Date: Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 3:11 PM
> Looks interesting.  
> 
> I thought there was a dependency on the Mozilla address
> book with regard to digital signature certificates as
> well.  
> 
> Do you happen to know if that is an actual dependency and
> whether carddav can handle it (private keys especially)?
> 
> 
>  - Dennis E. Hamilton
>    tools for document
> interoperability,  
>    dennis.hamil...@acm.org 
> gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Guessing here, but didn't want to see an important
> dependency broken.]
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pedro Giffuni [mailto:p...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:46
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Addressbook replacement: CardDAV
> 
> Hi;
> 
> I was looking at the IP_Clearance Wiki, and the known
> problem of
> replacing Mozilla.
> 
> I have noticed that for many things Gecko is being replaced
> with
> Apple's Webkit some further investigation shows that Apple
> Released their Calendar and Contacts server under AL2:
> 
> http://trac.calendarserver.org/
> 
> And CardDAV is the protocol they use:
> 
> http://carddav.calconnect.org/
> 
> A lot of work, but may be worth the look.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Pedro.
> 
>

Re: [IMPORTANT][INFO]: wiki problems

[TJ Frazier]

On 11/1/2011 07:42, Gavin McDonald wrote:




-Original Message-
From: Andre Fischer [mailto:a...@a-w-f.de]
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 9:07 PM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [IMPORTANT][INFO]: wiki problems

On 01.11.2011 11:57, TJ Frazier wrote:

On 11/1/2011 06:16, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:

Hi,

i have noticed a problem when changing my wiki profile.
When i try to change for example my email address in my wiki profile
i got a confirmation email containing a confirmation link. This link
starts with "http://127.0.0.1/wiki/Special:ConfirmEmail/..."; that
can't work. Changing the localhost ip address to
wiki.services.openoffice.org and everything works as expected.

Maybe one of the admins can have a look on it. It can confuse new

users.


Juergen



Hi, Jürgen,

Yes, this is a problem which shows up in several places. I believe it
is related to the front-ending of Apache Traffic Server, since that IP
is the address of ATS. I am certain that the "magic word" (technical
term,
honest) "{{fullurl}}" is returning this instead of the desired string.

Might I ask where you changed "the localhost ip address"? Maybe I can
fix that myself. Otherwise, it's a matter for installation parameters,
or PHP in the Parser Extension, and those are beyond my reach.


Hi,

I ran into the same problem.

Just replace "http://127.0.0.1/wiki/Special:ConfirmEmail/...";
with "http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Special:ConfirmEmail/...";


Yeah pretty sure this is ATS related, I'll take a look, might be a few hours
though.

Gav...


Researched this at
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:LocalSettings.php

Pretty sure the problem is with $wgServer, which should read, 
"http://wiki.services.openoffice.org";
This is an address for external use. This change is necessary, but may 
or may not be sufficient.

/tj/




Regards,
Andre

RE: Addressbook replacement: CardDAV

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Looks interesting.  

I thought there was a dependency on the Mozilla address book with regard to 
digital signature certificates as well.  

Do you happen to know if that is an actual dependency and whether carddav can 
handle it (private keys especially)?


 - Dennis E. Hamilton
   tools for document interoperability,  
   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid




[Guessing here, but didn't want to see an important dependency broken.]

-Original Message-
From: Pedro Giffuni [mailto:p...@apache.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:46
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Addressbook replacement: CardDAV

Hi;

I was looking at the IP_Clearance Wiki, and the known problem of
replacing Mozilla.

I have noticed that for many things Gecko is being replaced with
Apple's Webkit some further investigation shows that Apple
Released their Calendar and Contacts server under AL2:

http://trac.calendarserver.org/

And CardDAV is the protocol they use:

http://carddav.calconnect.org/

A lot of work, but may be worth the look.

cheers,

Pedro.

Re: Want to blog

[Jordan, Jeffrey]

Got it. Thanks

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

Christoph Jopp wrote:

> I don't know this is the proper place to ask this but how do I unsubscribe 
> from this email list?

When you subscribed you should have got a welcome mail containing this
information:

"To remove your address from the list, send a message to:
"


>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
>
> "Marcus (OOo)" wrote:
> Am 11/01/2011 02:00 PM, schrieb Oliver-Rainer Wittmann:
>> Hi Gavin,
>>
>> On 01.11.2011 12:41, Gavin McDonald wrote:
>>>
>>>
 -Original Message-
 From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
 Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 9:13 PM
 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
 Subject: Re: Want to blog

 Am 11/01/2011 11:46 AM, schrieb Armin Le Grand:
> I wanted to blog about e.g. extended OLE attribute/geometry stuff in
> http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ to make new possibilities more known to
> the public. Looks like if I have to do a JIRA request.
>
> If there are no objections I will put in an Infra request to get added
> as an blog author for the project's blog.

 I've tried to send you an invitation for getting an author but it
 failed.
>>> Maybe
 we have to wait 1-2 days before your user name is known everywhere at
 ASF.
>>>
>>> Blogs is not LDAP aware and so accounts need to be requested and then
>>> created
>>> (by me usually.)
>>>
>>> At that stage you can invite Armin in though I usually do that at the
>>> same
>>> time.
>>>
>>> I just need an ok from a PPMC member ...
>>>
>>
>> Here is another Ok.
>>
>> Can you also add myself to the blog world?
>> After a corresponding Ok from another PPMC member, of course.
>>
>> Thanks in advance, Oliver.
>
> +1
>
> Marcus
>
>

Re: Want to blog

[Christoph Jopp]

> I don't know this is the proper place to ask this but how do I unsubscribe 
> from this email list?

When you subscribed you should have got a welcome mail containing this
information:

"To remove your address from the list, send a message to:
"


> 
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
> 
> "Marcus (OOo)" wrote:
> Am 11/01/2011 02:00 PM, schrieb Oliver-Rainer Wittmann:
>> Hi Gavin,
>>
>> On 01.11.2011 12:41, Gavin McDonald wrote:
>>>
>>>
 -Original Message-
 From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
 Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 9:13 PM
 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
 Subject: Re: Want to blog

 Am 11/01/2011 11:46 AM, schrieb Armin Le Grand:
> I wanted to blog about e.g. extended OLE attribute/geometry stuff in
> http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ to make new possibilities more known to
> the public. Looks like if I have to do a JIRA request.
>
> If there are no objections I will put in an Infra request to get added
> as an blog author for the project's blog.

 I've tried to send you an invitation for getting an author but it
 failed.
>>> Maybe
 we have to wait 1-2 days before your user name is known everywhere at
 ASF.
>>>
>>> Blogs is not LDAP aware and so accounts need to be requested and then
>>> created
>>> (by me usually.)
>>>
>>> At that stage you can invite Armin in though I usually do that at the
>>> same
>>> time.
>>>
>>> I just need an ok from a PPMC member ...
>>>
>>
>> Here is another Ok.
>>
>> Can you also add myself to the blog world?
>> After a corresponding Ok from another PPMC member, of course.
>>
>> Thanks in advance, Oliver.
> 
> +1
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 

RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Of course, some proportion of the independently-established wiki and forum 
accounts specify @openoffice.org addresses as their destinations.

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:r.birc...@gmx.ch]
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:39
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[ ... ]

To clarify one thing. Only BZ is concerned from the forwarding adress.
The Forum And the Wiki has separate login systems. Yes, maybe it's
possible that people use the OOo forwarding Adress for the wiki and the
forum. But you are never forced to use it. But the BZ (and befor IZ) was
integrated in the OOo Framework (first Collabnet, and then kenai). The
big problem is only the BZ. AFAIK we have all accounts for the wiki and
the Forum.

Greetings Raphael

-- 
My private Homepage: http://www.raphaelbircher.ch/


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Rob speaketh,

   ... let's admit that almost all of the 500,000 openoffice.org
   addresses are unused or were created by spammers and have zero
   relevancy to the project.

So, what is "almost all" of 500,000, and how can it be determined?  How many 
are left?

It would be more interesting to know how many forwards are happening via 
@openoffice.org over recent times, yes?

Do you have that information?  Can it be obtained?





-Original Message-
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:13
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Pedro Giffuni  wrote:
> --- On Tue, 11/1/11, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
>>
>> Questions for the BZ, Forums and MWiki. Is there a way for
>> people registered in those systems with an @OOo email to
>> change their address without losing their content?
>>
>
> I won't miss what I never had, but ...
>
> For BZ it's easy to change the email address. Just go to
> Preferences --> Account information.
>

So is there any way to solve a more constrained problem?  In other
words, let's admit that almost all of the 500,000 openoffice.org
addresses are unused or were created by spammers and have zero
relevancy to the project.

Instead, we could look at all new BZ issues created in the last year,
all forum and wiki members who have logged in in the last year, and
all ooo-* list members.  From those lists, get the list of all those
with openoffice.org addresses.  Send them a note saying that the
forwarding service is going away.  Tell them how to reset their email
address in the tools.  On top of that put a prominent notice on the
wiki, forums and website to catch any users we might have missed.

-Rob


> cheers,
>
> Pedro.
>


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

There is no reason to issue *more* myname@ openoffice.org registrations, 
although there does need to be something about how to register on the 
openoffice.org wiki, forums, etc., in the future.

Whatever has already been tolerated as a myname@ openoffice.org e-mail and 
"myname" User ID is already done.

-Original Message-
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 11:03
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[ ... ]

Also note that I will object to the continuation of these
openoffice.org addresses unless there is a clear path to preventing
abuse.  For example, what prevents someone from registering the email
address sa...@openoffice.org, or other deceptive names, in English or
any other language?

[ ... ]

Addressbook replacement: CardDAV

[Pedro Giffuni]

Hi;

I was looking at the IP_Clearance Wiki, and the known problem of
replacing Mozilla.

I have noticed that for many things Gecko is being replaced with
Apple's Webkit some further investigation shows that Apple
Released their Calendar and Contacts server under AL2:

http://trac.calendarserver.org/

And CardDAV is the protocol they use:

http://carddav.calconnect.org/

A lot of work, but may be worth the look.

cheers,

Pedro.

Re: Need a current build for WinXP 32bit

[Regina Henschel]

Hi Ariel,

Ariel Constenla-Haile schrieb:

Hi Regina,

On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 03:41:35PM +0100, Regina Henschel wrote:

Hi all,

I'm still testing the new OLE features Armin implemented. I got a
build from Ariel with

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3C20111018005157.GB30463%40localhost%3E

It shows some odd things with presentations.
(1) ppt with equations give "General input/output error"


I can't reproduce this with ODP files with Math.
It would be helpful if you can upload your test documents somewhere, so
we can all use the same docs to test (I don't have MS Office in my
virtual machine, so I can't test embedding MSO files).


I have uploaded four files to http://www.rhenschel.homepage.t-online.de/

I can open the ppt file without problems now and the MathType formulas 
are OK. (Remember to uncheck converting in Tools>Objects>Load/Save) 
Import from pptx is wrong. It should retain an OLE, but it generates an 
Metafile and an empty OLE.


I get problems with the PaintShopPro-OLE. In presentation mode the 
picture is missing, if the OLE object is rotated and sheared. Without 
that transformations the OLE-objects are shown correctly in presentation 
mode.





(2) Own odp shows red x-crosses in presentation mode.

I do not see this with my own builds,


(2) is due to the --enable-dbgutil switch


but my builds do not have full
OLE support, because I have to disable atl, because atl is not
possible with MSVC 2008 Express.

So is there someone out, who can provide me an actual full build to test it?



You can try
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17375654/OOo_3.4.0_Win_x86_install-arc_en-US.zip

* it is a pro-build (no --enable-dbgutil), so you won't see (2)
* it's an archived version, no installation required. If you need an
   installer, let me know (this will have to wait until tomorrow).


Thanks. An archive version is fine. Otherwise I would have to do an 
administrative installation. That would be no problem, but one step 
more. So an archive version is really fine :)


Kind regards
Regina



Configure switches:

$ ./configure  --with-external-tar="Y:/ext_sources"
--with-cl-home="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MICROS~1.0/VC"
--with-mspdb-path="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MICROS~1.0/Common7/IDE"
--with-frame-home="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MICROS~3/Windows/v6.1"
--with-psdk-home="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MICROS~3/Windows/v6.1"
--with-midl-path="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MICROS~3/Windows/v6.1/Bin"
--with-asm-home="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MICROS~1.0/VC/bin"
--with-csc-path="/cygdrive/c/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v3.5"
--with-jdk-home="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/Java/JDK16~2.0_1"
--with-ant-home="/cygdrive/c/apache-ant-1.7.1"
--enable-minimizer
--enable-presenter-console
--enable-pdfimport
--enable-wiki-publisher
--enable-report-builder
--enable-verbose
--enable-mysql-connector --with-libmysql-path="C:/ARCHIV~1/MySQL/MYSQLC~1.2"
--with-package-format="installed"
--with-directx-home="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MI599E~1"
--enable-binfilter

Regards

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Raphael Bircher]

Am 01.11.11 20:13, schrieb Rob Weir:

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Pedro Giffuni  wrote:

--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Dave Fisher  wrote:


Questions for the BZ, Forums and MWiki. Is there a way for
people registered in those systems with an @OOo email to
change their address without losing their content?


I won't miss what I never had, but ...

For BZ it's easy to change the email address. Just go to
Preferences -->  Account information.


So is there any way to solve a more constrained problem?  In other
words, let's admit that almost all of the 500,000 openoffice.org
addresses are unused or were created by spammers and have zero
relevancy to the project.

Instead, we could look at all new BZ issues created in the last year,
all forum and wiki members who have logged in in the last year, and
all ooo-* list members.  From those lists, get the list of all those
with openoffice.org addresses.  Send them a note saying that the
forwarding service is going away.  Tell them how to reset their email
address in the tools.  On top of that put a prominent notice on the
wiki, forums and website to catch any users we might have missed.
To clarify one thing. Only BZ is concerned from the forwarding adress. 
The Forum And the Wiki has separate login systems. Yes, maybe it's 
possible that people use the OOo forwarding Adress for the wiki and the 
forum. But you are never forced to use it. But the BZ (and befor IZ) was 
integrated in the OOo Framework (first Collabnet, and then kenai). The 
big problem is only the BZ. AFAIK we have all accounts for the wiki and 
the Forum.


Greetings Raphael

--
My private Homepage: http://www.raphaelbircher.ch/

new committer: Michael Stehmann

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

The Apache OOo PPMC announces the addition of Initial Committer
Michael Stehmann: Apache ID "mikeadvo"

The list of all current podling committers is at:
.

Committers have a defined role in the workings of the Apache
Software Foundation:
.



- the AOOo PPMC


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RE: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Let me ask this differently, Rob:

What is it that is so appealing about having a [VOTE] on the ooo-marketing 
list?  If it is so interchangeable, why have it there?  Or, put differently, 
why not having something of such moment to the entire community on ooo-dev?

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:39
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
 wrote:
> It does not let the PPMC members *observe* the voting and any 
> [VOTE][DISCUSS] however, unless they also subscribe.
>

Certainly it allows them to observe.  All PPMC members is able to
subscribe to the list.  They can also look in the archives.

The need for oversight and transparency does not mean that everything
occur on ooo-dev and only ooo-dev.  We just voted, for example, to
allow private discussions and decsions on the forums, with the ability
for PPMC members, on request, to be allowed in.  Subscribing to
ooo-marketing is far easier than that.  It is public, as are the
archives.

This is not rocket science, Dennis.

-Rob

> As one pedantist to another, I'll let you handle all of those moderation 
> requests.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:26
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  
> wrote:
>> -1 to a [VOTE] conducted on the ooo-marketing list if it is expected to be 
>> a binding agreement of the project.
>>
>> That would require the PPMC to all subscribe and it would require anyone 
>> who is concerned with only this issue to subscribe here.
>>
>
> Incorrect, as you know.  You can send a note to ooo-marketing, even
> without subscribing.  You know that.  In fact you did this a few hours
> ago.
>
> Let's put the process pedantry back in the cage.  It is not helpful.
>
> -Rob
>
>> There is one place to "speak to the PPMC" in public, and it is ooo-dev.
>>
>>  - Dennis
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 08:32
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; ooo-market...@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first 
>> release
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton  
>> wrote:
>>> If every post on this thread is being cross-posted to two lists, why is it 
>>> being conducted on two lists?  All it does is expose the prospect of the 
>>> thread forking between the two lists and turning into a tangled mess.  It 
>>> also forces anyone who is keen on this topic to read both lists to make 
>>> sure that eventuality is forestalled.
>>>
>>> I recommend that a single list be chosen for continuation.
>>>
>>
>> My intent was to have the discussion on ooo-marketing.  I was just
>> notifying ooo-dev on the proposed terms and timing of the discussion.
>> I will start a new [DISCUSS] thread on only ooo-marketing and will
>> send a cc to ooo-dev when the [VOTE] thread kicks off as well.  Sorry
>> if this caused confusion.  You can stop cross posting now.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>>> At present, instead of providing shelter of the ooo-marketing list from 
>>> the clutter on ooo-dev, this is either adding clutter to ooo-dev or it 
>>> really needs to be a [DISCUSS] there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  - Dennis E. Hamilton
>>>   tools for document interoperability,  
>>>   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


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Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Rob Weir]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Pedro Giffuni  wrote:
> --- On Tue, 11/1/11, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
>>
>> Questions for the BZ, Forums and MWiki. Is there a way for
>> people registered in those systems with an @OOo email to
>> change their address without losing their content?
>>
>
> I won't miss what I never had, but ...
>
> For BZ it's easy to change the email address. Just go to
> Preferences --> Account information.
>

So is there any way to solve a more constrained problem?  In other
words, let's admit that almost all of the 500,000 openoffice.org
addresses are unused or were created by spammers and have zero
relevancy to the project.

Instead, we could look at all new BZ issues created in the last year,
all forum and wiki members who have logged in in the last year, and
all ooo-* list members.  From those lists, get the list of all those
with openoffice.org addresses.  Send them a note saying that the
forwarding service is going away.  Tell them how to reset their email
address in the tools.  On top of that put a prominent notice on the
wiki, forums and website to catch any users we might have missed.

-Rob


> cheers,
>
> Pedro.
>

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Pedro Giffuni]

--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Raphael Bircher  wrote:
...
> Am 01.11.11 19:34, schrieb Pedro Giffuni:
> > --- On Tue, 11/1/11, Dave Fisher 
> wrote:
> > 
> >> Questions for the BZ, Forums and MWiki. Is there a
> way for
> >> people registered in those systems with an @OOo
> email to
> >> change their address without losing their
> content?
> >> 
> > I won't miss what I never had, but ...
> > 
> > For BZ it's easy to change the email address. Just go
> to
> > Preferences -->  Account information.
> No, it's not so easy. We have not migrated the password. So
> the only way to reset your account is over the the e-mail.

Ah, well... I think people that have real interest in keeping
connected to the project already reset their account.

Perhaps we should go closing all those old, apparently inactive,
issues while the people can still get updates.

Cheers,

Pedro.

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Joe Schaefer]

Personally what I'm thinking is that for the immediate
future we collect a list of forwarding aliases from Oracle
and use them solely for maintaining the bugzilla messaging.
IOW we'd provide no means for people to change their address,
and it would only continue to work when receiving mail from
the issue tracker.  After a period of maybe 6 months to a year
we could retire that alias map entirely.




>
>From: Rob Weir 
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 1:41 PM
>Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>
>On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
>> Unfortunately, those are not just vanity addresses, they are part of a
>> single-signon system that was introduced across the http:// *.openoffice.org
>> web properties.  I had no idea that orc...@openoffice.org was mine (or I
>> quickly forgot) when I registered on the site too many years ago.  I didn't
>> realize its significance until I needed that e-mail address to reregister on
>> the re-hosted bugzilla, restoring my connection to those particular issues
>> that were mine, and the particular issues that I am CC:-ed on.
>>
>
>So worst case you create a new BZ account with a different email
>address.  So what?  We don't lose your old issues.  You can still find
>your old issues.  How have you personally been harmed?
>
>-Rob
>
>> It is easy to dispense with the consequences as if it is merely the
>> abandonment of a vanity forwarding service.  And even that has consequences
>> for openoffice.org as an enduring community institution.
>>
>>  - Dennis
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:apa...@robweir.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:22
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
>>> There are problems concerning migration of yourname@ openoffice.org,
>>> listname@
>>> openoffice.org, and servicename@ openoffice.org.  Consequently, all
>>> yourname@
>>> openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the migration goes into its
>>> final stages sometime in November.
>>>
>>> I don't have a solution.  I have an appraisal of the issue.  It is something
>>> that requires mutual understanding and, out of our mutual attention, the
>>> prospect of a workable solution.
>>>
>>
>> Dealing with the servicen...@openoffice.org addresses is relatively
>> easy to handle.  Since we generally control the underlying service we
>> can simply change the service (or the wiki or website if these are
>> human-generated enails) to send notifications to one of our existing
>> lists.  We are doing that, for example with the BZ notifications.
>>
>> yourn...@openoffice.org -- I don't think providing free lifetime
>> personal email forwarding services to non project members is part of
>> the core mission for this project or ASF.  A Gmail account is free for
>> the asking.  And if someone really wants a project-related vanity
>> address, then apache.org is available to all committers.  But I do not
>> accept any obligation for this project to fix a situation caused by
>> bad choices and decisions by those in the past.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>
>
>

Re: MacOS X Lion compatible

[FR web forum]

>This LibO and OOo thinking they are the same application is a continual 
>problem. 
>It would have been nice if LibO made themselves distinct.
I know that. But developpers shall to think that end-users can install both on 
computer.
Maybe the install process should be to test if other is here before.

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Raphael Bircher]

Am 01.11.11 19:34, schrieb Pedro Giffuni:

--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Dave Fisher  wrote:


Questions for the BZ, Forums and MWiki. Is there a way for
people registered in those systems with an @OOo email to
change their address without losing their content?


I won't miss what I never had, but ...

For BZ it's easy to change the email address. Just go to
Preferences -->  Account information.
No, it's not so easy. We have not migrated the password. So the only way 
to reset your accout is over the the e-mail. But these E-mail is the 
forwarding adress n...@openoffice.org. If the Forwarding Adress works no 
longer you have no chance to take over your old account.


Greetings Raphael


--
My private Homepage: http://www.raphaelbircher.ch/

Re: Want to blog

[Jordan, Jeffrey]

I don't know this is the proper place to ask this but how do I unsubscribe from 
this email list?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

"Marcus (OOo)" wrote:
Am 11/01/2011 02:00 PM, schrieb Oliver-Rainer Wittmann:
> Hi Gavin,
>
> On 01.11.2011 12:41, Gavin McDonald wrote:
>>
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 9:13 PM
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Want to blog
>>>
>>> Am 11/01/2011 11:46 AM, schrieb Armin Le Grand:
 I wanted to blog about e.g. extended OLE attribute/geometry stuff in
 http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ to make new possibilities more known to
 the public. Looks like if I have to do a JIRA request.

 If there are no objections I will put in an Infra request to get added
 as an blog author for the project's blog.
>>>
>>> I've tried to send you an invitation for getting an author but it
>>> failed.
>> Maybe
>>> we have to wait 1-2 days before your user name is known everywhere at
>>> ASF.
>>
>> Blogs is not LDAP aware and so accounts need to be requested and then
>> created
>> (by me usually.)
>>
>> At that stage you can invite Armin in though I usually do that at the
>> same
>> time.
>>
>> I just need an ok from a PPMC member ...
>>
>
> Here is another Ok.
>
> Can you also add myself to the blog world?
> After a corresponding Ok from another PPMC member, of course.
>
> Thanks in advance, Oliver.

+1

Marcus

Re: Want to blog

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 11/01/2011 02:00 PM, schrieb Oliver-Rainer Wittmann:

Hi Gavin,

On 01.11.2011 12:41, Gavin McDonald wrote:




-Original Message-
From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 9:13 PM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Want to blog

Am 11/01/2011 11:46 AM, schrieb Armin Le Grand:

I wanted to blog about e.g. extended OLE attribute/geometry stuff in
http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ to make new possibilities more known to
the public. Looks like if I have to do a JIRA request.

If there are no objections I will put in an Infra request to get added
as an blog author for the project's blog.


I've tried to send you an invitation for getting an author but it
failed.

Maybe

we have to wait 1-2 days before your user name is known everywhere at
ASF.


Blogs is not LDAP aware and so accounts need to be requested and then
created
(by me usually.)

At that stage you can invite Armin in though I usually do that at the
same
time.

I just need an ok from a PPMC member ...



Here is another Ok.

Can you also add myself to the blog world?
After a corresponding Ok from another PPMC member, of course.

Thanks in advance, Oliver.


+1

Marcus

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Pedro Giffuni]

--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Dave Fisher  wrote:

> 
> Questions for the BZ, Forums and MWiki. Is there a way for
> people registered in those systems with an @OOo email to
> change their address without losing their content?
>

I won't miss what I never had, but ...

For BZ it's easy to change the email address. Just go to
Preferences --> Account information.

cheers,

Pedro.

Re: MacOS X Lion compatible

[Dave Fisher]

On Nov 1, 2011, at 11:17 AM, FR web forum wrote:

> Thanks Juergen to help me,
> 
> The user has given me some details to reproduce.
> This seems appear when LibO is already installed.
> If you add OOo, the install process try to retreive the LibO profile
> The problem is fixed if LibO is uninstalled.
> 

This LibO and OOo thinking they are the same application is a continual 
problem. It would have been nice if LibO made themselves distinct.

Regards,
Dave

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Christian Lohmaier]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> There are problems concerning migration of yourname@ openoffice.org, listname@
> openoffice.org, and servicename@ openoffice.org.  Consequently, all yourname@
> openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the migration goes into its
> final stages sometime in November.

Then I'll say "good bye" already - when the alias vanishes, so does my
subscription to the OOo-related mailinglists. (not intended as a
blackmailing attempt or something like that, just a dry fact - I'm not
a registered member anyway, so you probably couldn't care less)

> []
>  4. WHAT'S NEEDED
>
>  A. There needs to be a clear-eyed discussion and understanding of the
> enormity (or inconsequentiality) of these accounts having their forwarding
> operation terminated on short notice.

You'll definitely loose some subscribers - whether they are
"important" for the future of the project is of course on another
plate, and as people need to subscribe tot different lists anyway, the
loss might be bigger because of having to resubscribe, than because of
loss of the alias. Bugzilla is more likely to be a problem, at least
you can dump all needmoreinfo issues filed in OOo-times, as requests
for more info will not be forwarded anymore, and thus you won't
receive a reply (too many people don't reply even when the mail
reaches them, so again not sure about the actual impact)

> []

ciao
Christian

Re: MacOS X Lion compatible

[FR web forum]

Thanks Juergen to help me,

The user has given me some details to reproduce.
This seems appear when LibO is already installed.
If you add OOo, the install process try to retreive the LibO profile
The problem is fixed if LibO is uninstalled.

Re: Need a current build for WinXP 32bit

[Ariel Constenla-Haile]

Hi Regina,

On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 03:41:35PM +0100, Regina Henschel wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm still testing the new OLE features Armin implemented. I got a
> build from Ariel with
> 
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3C20111018005157.GB30463%40localhost%3E
> 
> It shows some odd things with presentations.
> (1) ppt with equations give "General input/output error"

I can't reproduce this with ODP files with Math.
It would be helpful if you can upload your test documents somewhere, so
we can all use the same docs to test (I don't have MS Office in my
virtual machine, so I can't test embedding MSO files).

> (2) Own odp shows red x-crosses in presentation mode.
>
> I do not see this with my own builds, 

(2) is due to the --enable-dbgutil switch

> but my builds do not have full
> OLE support, because I have to disable atl, because atl is not
> possible with MSVC 2008 Express.
> 
> So is there someone out, who can provide me an actual full build to test it?


You can try
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17375654/OOo_3.4.0_Win_x86_install-arc_en-US.zip

* it is a pro-build (no --enable-dbgutil), so you won't see (2) 
* it's an archived version, no installation required. If you need an
  installer, let me know (this will have to wait until tomorrow).

Configure switches:

$ ./configure  --with-external-tar="Y:/ext_sources"
--with-cl-home="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MICROS~1.0/VC"
--with-mspdb-path="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MICROS~1.0/Common7/IDE"
--with-frame-home="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MICROS~3/Windows/v6.1"
--with-psdk-home="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MICROS~3/Windows/v6.1"
--with-midl-path="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MICROS~3/Windows/v6.1/Bin"
--with-asm-home="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MICROS~1.0/VC/bin"
--with-csc-path="/cygdrive/c/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v3.5"
--with-jdk-home="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/Java/JDK16~2.0_1"
--with-ant-home="/cygdrive/c/apache-ant-1.7.1" 
--enable-minimizer
--enable-presenter-console  
--enable-pdfimport  
--enable-wiki-publisher
--enable-report-builder 
--enable-verbose 
--enable-mysql-connector --with-libmysql-path="C:/ARCHIV~1/MySQL/MYSQLC~1.2"
--with-package-format="installed"
--with-directx-home="/cygdrive/c/ARCHIV~1/MI599E~1"   
--enable-binfilter

Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina


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Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[TJ Frazier]

Questions for the BZ, Forums and MWiki. Is there a way for people registered in 
those systems with an @OOo email to change their address without losing their 
content?

Regards,
Dave

Yes for the Mwiki. Users are free to change their email address on their 
Preferences page. The new address may go through the validation process 
(email to which the user must reply). The account is not otherwise 
affected, and SpecialPage:EmailUser will work as well as it did before 
(now busted :-( ).


--
/tj/

RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Lawrence Rosen]

Dennis Hamilton wrote:
> There are problems concerning migration of 
> yourn...@openoffice.org, listn...@openoffice.org, and
> servicen...@openoffice.org.  Consequently, all 
? yourn...@openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the 
> migration goes into its final stages sometime in November.

Is openoffice.org going away or itself being renamed in November? I must have 
missed that announcement

>  1. The presumption is that these addresses (and sometimes the
> services) cannot be preserved in the migration of the 
> http://*.openoffice.org properties from Oracle custody to 
> Apache custody, even though the domain name can be preserved.

I don't understand that presumption. Custody of a website has nothing to do 
with the addresses within it or accessing it. 

>  2. There is an untested presumption that it is not legal to 
> transfer those forwarding accounts because of rules about 
> privacy and European trans-national data-sharing regulations.  

If you can articulate this concern more clearly, I'll forward it to European 
attorneys who can advise us.

> There is speculation that the disruption of e-mail is tolerable 
> and that most of the current accounts have been abandoned. 
> That view seems to ignore the importance of these identifiers
> as part of the provenance structure for contributions to the 
> open-source project and the integrity of the code base and 
> related artifacts.

I cannot personally judge the technical obstacles you identify, but my gut 
tells me that we shouldn't disrupt the existing flow of Open Office activities 
simply because ownership has transferred to Apache. Nor will it be reasonable 
to ask our Infra team to manage 100K+ additional email accounts.

Can you advise us what the minimum that has to be done in order to let Open 
Office continue in non-crisis mode about this?

/Larry


> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:00 AM
> To: OOo-dev Apache Incubator
> Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen'
> Subject: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
> 
> There are problems concerning migration of yourname@ openoffice.org,
> listname@
> openoffice.org, and servicename@ openoffice.org.  Consequently, all
> yourname@
> openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the migration goes into
> its
> final stages sometime in November.
> 
> I don't have a solution.  I have an appraisal of the issue.  It is
> something
> that requires mutual understanding and, out of our mutual attention,
> the
> prospect of a workable solution.
> 
> 
>  - Dennis E. Hamilton
>tools for document interoperability,  
>dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DETAILS
> 
>  1. The presumption is that these addresses (and sometimes the
> services)
> cannot be preserved in the migration of the http:// *.openoffice.org
> properties from Oracle custody to Apache custody, even though the
> domain name
> can be preserved.
> 
>  1. The presumption is that these addresses (and sometimes the
> services)
> cannot be preserved in the migration of the http:// *.openoffice.org
> properties from Oracle custody to Apache custody, even though the
> domain name
> can be preserved.> 
>  2. There is an untested presumption that it is not legal to transfer
> those
> forwarding accounts because of rules about privacy and European trans-
> national
> data-sharing regulations.  (I am not an attorney.  And I wonder how the
> Sun ->
> Oracle transfer managed it and also wonder where the forwarding system
> and
> data are currently operated that such conditions apply.)
> 
>  3. CONSEQUENCES: If (1-2) are indeed show-stoppers, the default action
> is to
> notify people as well as can be done and allow the accounts and e-mail
> forwardings to simply expire this month.
> 
> There are 10's of thousands (if not 100's of thousands) of such
> accounts. It
> does not appear possible to notify the holders of the accounts
> individually.
> 
> This impacts the current existence of yourname@ openoffice.org used in
> 
>  - Bugzilla accounts and incident reports,
>  - in the historical code base change and contribution information,
>  - user registrations on wikis, forums, and other openoffice.org
> properties
>  - registration on ooo-dev and folks who have moved from the various
> OpenOffice.org
>lists to ooo-*@ i.a.o lists too,
>  - identification of participants in historical list-archive messages
>  - all other personal uses of the yourname@ openoffice.org as an
> identifier
>or account e-mail address
>  - anchoring e-mail address associated public-key infrastructure
> certificates
> and PGP
>public keys
>  - receipt of personal e-mail via
> 
> There is speculation that the disruption of e-mail is tolerable and
> that most
> of the current accounts have been abandoned. That view seems to ignore
> the
> importance of these identifiers as part of the

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Rob Weir]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
> On Nov 1, 2011, at 10:21 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
>>> There are problems concerning migration of yourname@ openoffice.org, 
>>> listname@
>>> openoffice.org, and servicename@ openoffice.org.  Consequently, all 
>>> yourname@
>>> openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the migration goes into its
>>> final stages sometime in November.
>>>
>>> I don't have a solution.  I have an appraisal of the issue.  It is something
>>> that requires mutual understanding and, out of our mutual attention, the
>>> prospect of a workable solution.
>>>
>>
>> Dealing with the servicen...@openoffice.org addresses is relatively
>> easy to handle.  Since we generally control the underlying service we
>> can simply change the service (or the wiki or website if these are
>> human-generated enails) to send notifications to one of our existing
>> lists.  We are doing that, for example with the BZ notifications.
>>
>> yourn...@openoffice.org -- I don't think providing free lifetime
>> personal email forwarding services to non project members is part of
>> the core mission for this project or ASF.  A Gmail account is free for
>> the asking.  And if someone really wants a project-related vanity
>> address, then apache.org is available to all committers.  But I do not
>> accept any obligation for this project to fix a situation caused by
>> bad choices and decisions by those in the past.
>
> Maybe a shorter description of some facts.
>
> (1) Oracle will not be giving the ASF this data. (I've heard this from a 
> reputable source.)
> (2) There are many @openoffice.org addresses embedded in the following 
> services:
>        - Wiki.
>        - Forums.
>        - BZ.
>        - Website. Here we can identify and change.
>        - Code?
>        - Other docs?
> (3) We will have @OOo ML forwarders to our project's MLs @i.a.o. Correct? 
> This will be about 330 addresses.

I don't believe anyone has planned to do this.

> (4) There are almost 500,000 of these ids. Getting one was part of the whole 
> openoffice.org single sign-on structure.
>
> We have choices.
>
> (A) Provide a mechanism to allow re-registration of the OOo forwarders on 
> some limited basis, but expanding basis. This would probably mean that the 
> project would have to manage the OOo MX.
> (B) Drop all individual forwarders and have a lot of notifications of 
> breakage for these services. We also disconnect the community.
> (C) Provide some mechanism to change emails in BZ, Wiki and Forums.
>

A far easier solution.  First notice that the use of the email address
as an identifier and its use as an email address are two different
things.  We can preserve one without the other.  If someone wants to
preserve the openoffice.org address as an identifier, then they can do
that.  But we should give them notice so they can login into the
services and change their email address to a different, real one.
Since BZ and phpBB both allow email address distinct from their user
ID's, this should be possible, right?  Maybe it will require some
handholding and notification.  But let's not turn this into hysterical
predictions of an impending calamity.


Also note that I will object to the continuation of these
openoffice.org addresses unless there is a clear path to preventing
abuse.  For example, what prevents someone from registering the email
address sa...@openoffice.org, or other deceptive names, in English or
any other language?

> None of the above are easy.
>
> Questions for the BZ, Forums and MWiki. Is there a way for people registered 
> in those systems with an @OOo email to change their address without losing 
> their content?
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
>

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dave Fisher]

On Nov 1, 2011, at 10:21 AM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
>> There are problems concerning migration of yourname@ openoffice.org, 
>> listname@
>> openoffice.org, and servicename@ openoffice.org.  Consequently, all yourname@
>> openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the migration goes into its
>> final stages sometime in November.
>> 
>> I don't have a solution.  I have an appraisal of the issue.  It is something
>> that requires mutual understanding and, out of our mutual attention, the
>> prospect of a workable solution.
>> 
> 
> Dealing with the servicen...@openoffice.org addresses is relatively
> easy to handle.  Since we generally control the underlying service we
> can simply change the service (or the wiki or website if these are
> human-generated enails) to send notifications to one of our existing
> lists.  We are doing that, for example with the BZ notifications.
> 
> yourn...@openoffice.org -- I don't think providing free lifetime
> personal email forwarding services to non project members is part of
> the core mission for this project or ASF.  A Gmail account is free for
> the asking.  And if someone really wants a project-related vanity
> address, then apache.org is available to all committers.  But I do not
> accept any obligation for this project to fix a situation caused by
> bad choices and decisions by those in the past.

Maybe a shorter description of some facts.

(1) Oracle will not be giving the ASF this data. (I've heard this from a 
reputable source.)
(2) There are many @openoffice.org addresses embedded in the following services:
- Wiki.
- Forums.
- BZ.
- Website. Here we can identify and change.
- Code?
- Other docs?
(3) We will have @OOo ML forwarders to our project's MLs @i.a.o. Correct? This 
will be about 330 addresses.
(4) There are almost 500,000 of these ids. Getting one was part of the whole 
openoffice.org single sign-on structure.

We have choices.

(A) Provide a mechanism to allow re-registration of the OOo forwarders on some 
limited basis, but expanding basis. This would probably mean that the project 
would have to manage the OOo MX.
(B) Drop all individual forwarders and have a lot of notifications of breakage 
for these services. We also disconnect the community.
(C) Provide some mechanism to change emails in BZ, Wiki and Forums.

None of the above are easy.

Questions for the BZ, Forums and MWiki. Is there a way for people registered in 
those systems with an @OOo email to change their address without losing their 
content?

Regards,
Dave

Re: MacOS X Lion compatible

[Raphael Bircher]

Am 01.11.11 16:49, schrieb Jürgen Schmidt:

On 11/1/11 4:18 PM, FR web forum wrote:

Dearest devs,

 From the french forum, some users report that 3.3.0 release is not 
compatible with newest MacOS X 10.7.3 (aka Lion).


Are you aware of that?
mmh, i am using OOo 3.3 on my MacBook running Lion. I haven't detected 
any problems so far.
I have also Lion here, and OOo works fine. There are same 
"incompatibilities with scroll bars. But they are only viewing bugs.


Do you have more details what the their problem is?

Juergen




--
My private Homepage: http://www.raphaelbircher.ch/

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Rob Weir]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> Unfortunately, those are not just vanity addresses, they are part of a
> single-signon system that was introduced across the http:// *.openoffice.org
> web properties.  I had no idea that orc...@openoffice.org was mine (or I
> quickly forgot) when I registered on the site too many years ago.  I didn't
> realize its significance until I needed that e-mail address to reregister on
> the re-hosted bugzilla, restoring my connection to those particular issues
> that were mine, and the particular issues that I am CC:-ed on.
>

So worst case you create a new BZ account with a different email
address.  So what?  We don't lose your old issues.  You can still find
your old issues.  How have you personally been harmed?

-Rob

> It is easy to dispense with the consequences as if it is merely the
> abandonment of a vanity forwarding service.  And even that has consequences
> for openoffice.org as an enduring community institution.
>
>  - Dennis
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:apa...@robweir.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:22
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
>> There are problems concerning migration of yourname@ openoffice.org,
>> listname@
>> openoffice.org, and servicename@ openoffice.org.  Consequently, all
>> yourname@
>> openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the migration goes into its
>> final stages sometime in November.
>>
>> I don't have a solution.  I have an appraisal of the issue.  It is something
>> that requires mutual understanding and, out of our mutual attention, the
>> prospect of a workable solution.
>>
>
> Dealing with the servicen...@openoffice.org addresses is relatively
> easy to handle.  Since we generally control the underlying service we
> can simply change the service (or the wiki or website if these are
> human-generated enails) to send notifications to one of our existing
> lists.  We are doing that, for example with the BZ notifications.
>
> yourn...@openoffice.org -- I don't think providing free lifetime
> personal email forwarding services to non project members is part of
> the core mission for this project or ASF.  A Gmail account is free for
> the asking.  And if someone really wants a project-related vanity
> address, then apache.org is available to all committers.  But I do not
> accept any obligation for this project to fix a situation caused by
> bad choices and decisions by those in the past.
>
> -Rob
>

Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release

[Rob Weir]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
 wrote:
> It does not let the PPMC members *observe* the voting and any [VOTE][DISCUSS] 
> however, unless they also subscribe.
>

Certainly it allows them to observe.  All PPMC members is able to
subscribe to the list.  They can also look in the archives.

The need for oversight and transparency does not mean that everything
occur on ooo-dev and only ooo-dev.  We just voted, for example, to
allow private discussions and decsions on the forums, with the ability
for PPMC members, on request, to be allowed in.  Subscribing to
ooo-marketing is far easier than that.  It is public, as are the
archives.

This is not rocket science, Dennis.

-Rob

> As one pedantist to another, I'll let you handle all of those moderation 
> requests.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:26
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
>> -1 to a [VOTE] conducted on the ooo-marketing list if it is expected to be a 
>> binding agreement of the project.
>>
>> That would require the PPMC to all subscribe and it would require anyone who 
>> is concerned with only this issue to subscribe here.
>>
>
> Incorrect, as you know.  You can send a note to ooo-marketing, even
> without subscribing.  You know that.  In fact you did this a few hours
> ago.
>
> Let's put the process pedantry back in the cage.  It is not helpful.
>
> -Rob
>
>> There is one place to "speak to the PPMC" in public, and it is ooo-dev.
>>
>>  - Dennis
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 08:32
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; ooo-market...@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton  
>> wrote:
>>> If every post on this thread is being cross-posted to two lists, why is it 
>>> being conducted on two lists?  All it does is expose the prospect of the 
>>> thread forking between the two lists and turning into a tangled mess.  It 
>>> also forces anyone who is keen on this topic to read both lists to make 
>>> sure that eventuality is forestalled.
>>>
>>> I recommend that a single list be chosen for continuation.
>>>
>>
>> My intent was to have the discussion on ooo-marketing.  I was just
>> notifying ooo-dev on the proposed terms and timing of the discussion.
>> I will start a new [DISCUSS] thread on only ooo-marketing and will
>> send a cc to ooo-dev when the [VOTE] thread kicks off as well.  Sorry
>> if this caused confusion.  You can stop cross posting now.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>>> At present, instead of providing shelter of the ooo-marketing list from the 
>>> clutter on ooo-dev, this is either adding clutter to ooo-dev or it really 
>>> needs to be a [DISCUSS] there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  - Dennis E. Hamilton
>>>   tools for document interoperability,  
>>>   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [wiki] Congrats to all on the migration!

[Dave Fisher]

On Nov 1, 2011, at 9:46 AM, Kay Schenk wrote:

> A big CONGRATULATIONS to all who worked on the wiki migration over the last
> week or so. This, I think would be Gavin, TJ, and Andrew at least and I'm
> sure others that I'm not aware of. Things were in good shape by Oct. 26.
> Yes, a few minor bumps but truthfully, a great effort by the infrastructure
> and wiki admin team!

I'll add Daniel and Joe as well. 

Way to  Rock!

Regards,
Dave

> 
> -- 
> ---
> MzK
> 
> "This is no social crisis
> Just another tricky day for you."
> -- "Tricky Day", the Who

RE: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

It does not let the PPMC members *observe* the voting and any [VOTE][DISCUSS] 
however, unless they also subscribe.

As one pedantist to another, I'll let you handle all of those moderation 
requests.

-Original Message-
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:26
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> -1 to a [VOTE] conducted on the ooo-marketing list if it is expected to be a 
> binding agreement of the project.
>
> That would require the PPMC to all subscribe and it would require anyone who 
> is concerned with only this issue to subscribe here.
>

Incorrect, as you know.  You can send a note to ooo-marketing, even
without subscribing.  You know that.  In fact you did this a few hours
ago.

Let's put the process pedantry back in the cage.  It is not helpful.

-Rob

> There is one place to "speak to the PPMC" in public, and it is ooo-dev.
>
>  - Dennis
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 08:32
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; ooo-market...@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
>> If every post on this thread is being cross-posted to two lists, why is it 
>> being conducted on two lists?  All it does is expose the prospect of the 
>> thread forking between the two lists and turning into a tangled mess.  It 
>> also forces anyone who is keen on this topic to read both lists to make sure 
>> that eventuality is forestalled.
>>
>> I recommend that a single list be chosen for continuation.
>>
>
> My intent was to have the discussion on ooo-marketing.  I was just
> notifying ooo-dev on the proposed terms and timing of the discussion.
> I will start a new [DISCUSS] thread on only ooo-marketing and will
> send a cc to ooo-dev when the [VOTE] thread kicks off as well.  Sorry
> if this caused confusion.  You can stop cross posting now.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> At present, instead of providing shelter of the ooo-marketing list from the 
>> clutter on ooo-dev, this is either adding clutter to ooo-dev or it really 
>> needs to be a [DISCUSS] there.
>>
>>
>>
>>  - Dennis E. Hamilton
>>   tools for document interoperability,  
>>   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Unfortunately, those are not just vanity addresses, they are part of a 
single-signon system that was introduced across the http:// *.openoffice.org 
web properties.  I had no idea that orc...@openoffice.org was mine (or I 
quickly forgot) when I registered on the site too many years ago.  I didn't 
realize its significance until I needed that e-mail address to reregister on 
the re-hosted bugzilla, restoring my connection to those particular issues 
that were mine, and the particular issues that I am CC:-ed on.

It is easy to dispense with the consequences as if it is merely the 
abandonment of a vanity forwarding service.  And even that has consequences 
for openoffice.org as an enduring community institution.

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Rob Weir [mailto:apa...@robweir.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:22
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> There are problems concerning migration of yourname@ openoffice.org, 
> listname@
> openoffice.org, and servicename@ openoffice.org.  Consequently, all 
> yourname@
> openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the migration goes into its
> final stages sometime in November.
>
> I don't have a solution.  I have an appraisal of the issue.  It is something
> that requires mutual understanding and, out of our mutual attention, the
> prospect of a workable solution.
>

Dealing with the servicen...@openoffice.org addresses is relatively
easy to handle.  Since we generally control the underlying service we
can simply change the service (or the wiki or website if these are
human-generated enails) to send notifications to one of our existing
lists.  We are doing that, for example with the BZ notifications.

yourn...@openoffice.org -- I don't think providing free lifetime
personal email forwarding services to non project members is part of
the core mission for this project or ASF.  A Gmail account is free for
the asking.  And if someone really wants a project-related vanity
address, then apache.org is available to all committers.  But I do not
accept any obligation for this project to fix a situation caused by
bad choices and decisions by those in the past.

-Rob


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release

[Rob Weir]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> -1 to a [VOTE] conducted on the ooo-marketing list if it is expected to be a 
> binding agreement of the project.
>
> That would require the PPMC to all subscribe and it would require anyone who 
> is concerned with only this issue to subscribe here.
>

Incorrect, as you know.  You can send a note to ooo-marketing, even
without subscribing.  You know that.  In fact you did this a few hours
ago.

Let's put the process pedantry back in the cage.  It is not helpful.

-Rob

> There is one place to "speak to the PPMC" in public, and it is ooo-dev.
>
>  - Dennis
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 08:32
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; ooo-market...@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
>> If every post on this thread is being cross-posted to two lists, why is it 
>> being conducted on two lists?  All it does is expose the prospect of the 
>> thread forking between the two lists and turning into a tangled mess.  It 
>> also forces anyone who is keen on this topic to read both lists to make sure 
>> that eventuality is forestalled.
>>
>> I recommend that a single list be chosen for continuation.
>>
>
> My intent was to have the discussion on ooo-marketing.  I was just
> notifying ooo-dev on the proposed terms and timing of the discussion.
> I will start a new [DISCUSS] thread on only ooo-marketing and will
> send a cc to ooo-dev when the [VOTE] thread kicks off as well.  Sorry
> if this caused confusion.  You can stop cross posting now.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> At present, instead of providing shelter of the ooo-marketing list from the 
>> clutter on ooo-dev, this is either adding clutter to ooo-dev or it really 
>> needs to be a [DISCUSS] there.
>>
>>
>>
>>  - Dennis E. Hamilton
>>   tools for document interoperability,  
>>   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Rob Weir]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> There are problems concerning migration of yourname@ openoffice.org, listname@
> openoffice.org, and servicename@ openoffice.org.  Consequently, all yourname@
> openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the migration goes into its
> final stages sometime in November.
>
> I don't have a solution.  I have an appraisal of the issue.  It is something
> that requires mutual understanding and, out of our mutual attention, the
> prospect of a workable solution.
>

Dealing with the servicen...@openoffice.org addresses is relatively
easy to handle.  Since we generally control the underlying service we
can simply change the service (or the wiki or website if these are
human-generated enails) to send notifications to one of our existing
lists.  We are doing that, for example with the BZ notifications.

yourn...@openoffice.org -- I don't think providing free lifetime
personal email forwarding services to non project members is part of
the core mission for this project or ASF.  A Gmail account is free for
the asking.  And if someone really wants a project-related vanity
address, then apache.org is available to all committers.  But I do not
accept any obligation for this project to fix a situation caused by
bad choices and decisions by those in the past.

-Rob

RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Or vice versa?

Thanks for brightening my day.

-Original Message-
From: Donald Whytock [mailto:dwhyt...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:11
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; orc...@apache.org
Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
>  2. There is an untested presumption that it is not legal to transfer those
> forwarding accounts because of rules about privacy and European trans-national
> data-sharing regulations.  (I am not an attorney.  And I wonder how the Sun ->
> Oracle transfer managed it and also wonder where the forwarding system and
> data are currently operated that such conditions apply.)

The mailing lists and IDs were probably considered the property of
Sun.  Oracle bought Sun, and hence all its assets.

I'm sure if Oracle were to buy the Apache Foundation there wouldn't be
any legal issues at all...

Don

Re: [wiki] Congrats to all on the migration!

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 11/01/2011 06:09 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:

I share the congratulations.

Also, I want to acknowledge the contribution of Terry Ellison.  Although there 
was an upset, Terry has operated silently to continue some of this work.  And, 
without his initial efforts, none of this would have happened at all.


I would also like to say a big Thank You to all who have helped to make 
this migration happen!


Marcus




-Original Message-
From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 09:47
To: ooo-dev
Subject: [wiki] Congrats to all on the migration!

A big CONGRATULATIONS to all who worked on the wiki migration over the last
week or so. This, I think would be Gavin, TJ, and Andrew at least and I'm
sure others that I'm not aware of. Things were in good shape by Oct. 26.
Yes, a few minor bumps but truthfully, a great effort by the infrastructure
and wiki admin team!

RE: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

-1 to a [VOTE] conducted on the ooo-marketing list if it is expected to be a 
binding agreement of the project.

That would require the PPMC to all subscribe and it would require anyone who is 
concerned with only this issue to subscribe here.

There is one place to "speak to the PPMC" in public, and it is ooo-dev.

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 08:32
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; ooo-market...@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> If every post on this thread is being cross-posted to two lists, why is it 
> being conducted on two lists?  All it does is expose the prospect of the 
> thread forking between the two lists and turning into a tangled mess.  It 
> also forces anyone who is keen on this topic to read both lists to make sure 
> that eventuality is forestalled.
>
> I recommend that a single list be chosen for continuation.
>

My intent was to have the discussion on ooo-marketing.  I was just
notifying ooo-dev on the proposed terms and timing of the discussion.
I will start a new [DISCUSS] thread on only ooo-marketing and will
send a cc to ooo-dev when the [VOTE] thread kicks off as well.  Sorry
if this caused confusion.  You can stop cross posting now.

-Rob


> At present, instead of providing shelter of the ooo-marketing list from the 
> clutter on ooo-dev, this is either adding clutter to ooo-dev or it really 
> needs to be a [DISCUSS] there.
>
>
>
>  - Dennis E. Hamilton
>   tools for document interoperability,  
>   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Donald Whytock]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
>  2. There is an untested presumption that it is not legal to transfer those
> forwarding accounts because of rules about privacy and European trans-national
> data-sharing regulations.  (I am not an attorney.  And I wonder how the Sun ->
> Oracle transfer managed it and also wonder where the forwarding system and
> data are currently operated that such conditions apply.)

The mailing lists and IDs were probably considered the property of
Sun.  Oracle bought Sun, and hence all its assets.

I'm sure if Oracle were to buy the Apache Foundation there wouldn't be
any legal issues at all...

Don

RE: [wiki] Congrats to all on the migration!

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

I share the congratulations.

Also, I want to acknowledge the contribution of Terry Ellison.  Although there 
was an upset, Terry has operated silently to continue some of this work.  And, 
without his initial efforts, none of this would have happened at all.


 - Dennis E. Hamilton
   tools for document interoperability,  
   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid




-Original Message-
From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 09:47
To: ooo-dev
Subject: [wiki] Congrats to all on the migration!

A big CONGRATULATIONS to all who worked on the wiki migration over the last
week or so. This, I think would be Gavin, TJ, and Andrew at least and I'm
sure others that I'm not aware of. Things were in good shape by Oct. 26.
Yes, a few minor bumps but truthfully, a great effort by the infrastructure
and wiki admin team!

-- 
---
MzK

"This is no social crisis
 Just another tricky day for you."
 -- "Tricky Day", the Who

[ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

There are problems concerning migration of yourname@ openoffice.org, listname@ 
openoffice.org, and servicename@ openoffice.org.  Consequently, all yourname@ 
openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the migration goes into its 
final stages sometime in November.

I don't have a solution.  I have an appraisal of the issue.  It is something 
that requires mutual understanding and, out of our mutual attention, the 
prospect of a workable solution.


 - Dennis E. Hamilton
   tools for document interoperability,  
   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid




DETAILS

 1. The presumption is that these addresses (and sometimes the services) 
cannot be preserved in the migration of the http:// *.openoffice.org 
properties from Oracle custody to Apache custody, even though the domain name 
can be preserved.

This is a technical capability obstacle.  Volunteers on the Apache 
OpenOffice.org podling are already spread too thin and priority is given to 
bugzilla, the forums, the wiki, and the static content from the properties. 
In addition, there is software involved that must either be migrated over or 
replaced in a way that the @ openoffice.org forwarding is continued when the 
migrated site goes live.  That requires technical capacity along with access 
to the necessary data on the existing system.

 2. There is an untested presumption that it is not legal to transfer those 
forwarding accounts because of rules about privacy and European trans-national 
data-sharing regulations.  (I am not an attorney.  And I wonder how the Sun -> 
Oracle transfer managed it and also wonder where the forwarding system and 
data are currently operated that such conditions apply.)

 3. CONSEQUENCES: If (1-2) are indeed show-stoppers, the default action is to 
notify people as well as can be done and allow the accounts and e-mail 
forwardings to simply expire this month.

There are 10's of thousands (if not 100's of thousands) of such accounts. It 
does not appear possible to notify the holders of the accounts individually.

This impacts the current existence of yourname@ openoffice.org used in

 - Bugzilla accounts and incident reports,
 - in the historical code base change and contribution information,
 - user registrations on wikis, forums, and other openoffice.org properties
 - registration on ooo-dev and folks who have moved from the various 
OpenOffice.org
   lists to ooo-*@ i.a.o lists too,
 - identification of participants in historical list-archive messages
 - all other personal uses of the yourname@ openoffice.org as an identifier
   or account e-mail address
 - anchoring e-mail address associated public-key infrastructure certificates 
and PGP
   public keys
 - receipt of personal e-mail via

There is speculation that the disruption of e-mail is tolerable and that most 
of the current accounts have been abandoned. That view seems to ignore the 
importance of these identifiers as part of the provenance structure for 
contributions to the open-source project and the integrity of the code base 
and related artifacts.

Personally, I'm not betting any amount that shut-down of these accounts and 
the sudden loss of e-mail forwarding is so inconsequential.  However, I am not 
competent to contribute to a technical solution, nor is it possible for me to 
be trained as some sort of hero that could pull it off in the few weeks 
available for a solution.

 4. WHAT'S NEEDED

 A. There needs to be a clear-eyed discussion and understanding of the 
enormity (or inconsequentiality) of these accounts having their forwarding 
operation terminated on short notice.  The options and the risks need to be 
understood in the community of stakeholders and the discussion needs to held 
calmly and in public.  ("The way to speak to the PPMC is on ooo-dev.")

 B. The reality of any legal obstacles to the safe and private preservation of 
the forwarding accounts and in-openoffice.org registrations needs to be 
determined quickly.  There is no point in implementing a technical solution if 
that is a show-stopper.  The AOOo PPMC can secure the support of the Apache 
legal team to determine whether there is an acceptable way forward.

 C. Individuals with technical knowledge of the current setup, its operation, 
and how it is backed-up need to be identified and be available to assist those 
preparing the new host setup.  (This is a request for specific expertise, not 
speculations on what someone else should do or not.)

 D. There needs to be a non-panic approach to notifying those with myname@ 
openoffice.org addresses still in use.  It is prudent to quickly off-load 
those for personal e-mail and use as identifiers in account registrations. 
There is still reason to preserve the accounts and their associations for 
provenance and authenticity reasons.  Success of even that much is not 
assured.


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

[wiki] Congrats to all on the migration!

[Kay Schenk]

A big CONGRATULATIONS to all who worked on the wiki migration over the last
week or so. This, I think would be Gavin, TJ, and Andrew at least and I'm
sure others that I'm not aware of. Things were in good shape by Oct. 26.
Yes, a few minor bumps but truthfully, a great effort by the infrastructure
and wiki admin team!

-- 
---
MzK

"This is no social crisis
 Just another tricky day for you."
 -- "Tricky Day", the Who

Re: [CODE] review 118560 - slide sorter: slide selection is broken

[Pedro Giffuni]

Committed thanks!

And thanks to the PPMC, for assigning new committers
too.. (hint)

Pedro.

--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> From: Andre Fischer 
> Subject: [CODE] review  118560 - slide sorter: slide selection is broken
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Date: Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 4:44 AM
> Hi all,
> 
> can somebody review and commit the patch in issue 118560?
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118560
> 
> It is a very simple fix and will not take much time to
> review.
> 
> Thanks,
> Andre
> 

Re: Hello again (from another one)

[Wolfram Garten]

Hi Armin,

Am 01.11.2011 17:21, schrieb Armin Le Grand:
>   Hi Wolfram!
>
> good to hear from You, much appreciated. If in silent reading mode or
> more active (would even be better), I think back with good vibes on Your
> testing of some of my big(ger) changes ;-)...
>
Thanks for welcoming me. If you have some builds ready I should have a
look on please give me a mail and I will see what I can do...
> On 31.10.2011 20:52, Wolfram Garten wrote:
>> Hi Xia, (and all the others)
>> since I am in the "silent reading mode" here on this and other other
>> boards for some days now I'd like to use this chance to offer some help
>> for the QA and introduce myself a little bit.
>> My name ins Wolfram Garten, I used to work for the QA of
>> OracleOpenOffice/OpenOffice here in Hamburg. You may know me as
>> wg(@)openoffice.org. Draw and Impress were my areas of interest,
>> including the manual and automated testing for these aplications.
>> As I read through the Apache page I found two pages dealing a little bit
>> closer with the QA stuff:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-QA-Plan
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Site-QA-Plan
>> Sadly a lot of stuff in the old OOo pages has gone off the wire, like
>> all the knowledge that Quaste used to host.
>> Nevertheless I would like to see the QA come to life again in the new
>> Apache home. So, if there is something I can help with I will try.
>> And yes: I would prefer public builds, too. Since all that "building a
>> version on my own" seems more like witchcraft to me ;-)
> Yes, this is a needed step, but as Rob wrote, we currently have no place
> to put those builds (and where these would be accessible from outside,
> of course :-)), neither do we have buildbots currently. This needs to
> change.
>
>> It may not work every day but at least I'm trying to have a look in here
>> every day.
> Welcome!
>
>> Thanks for reading,
>> regards,
>>
>> Wolfram
>>
>>
> [..]
>
> Sincerely,
>   Armin
> --
> ALG
>
Thanks!
Wolfram

Another wiki problem

[Reizinger Zoltán]

Hi all,

When I tried to answer forum post, when user cannot create new account:
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44979&p=207858#p207858

I met same error, with new username.

Submitted the bug:
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118562

The error message shows me that it is a problem around mediawiki update 
to 1.15.


I found that no wiki listed in product/component fields.
The wiki needs to be added to the Component list when it is reviewed.

Thanks,
Zoltan

Re: Hello again (from another one)

[Armin Le Grand]

Hi Wolfram!

good to hear from You, much appreciated. If in silent reading mode or
more active (would even be better), I think back with good vibes on Your
testing of some of my big(ger) changes ;-)...

On 31.10.2011 20:52, Wolfram Garten wrote:
> Hi Xia, (and all the others)
> since I am in the "silent reading mode" here on this and other other
> boards for some days now I'd like to use this chance to offer some help
> for the QA and introduce myself a little bit.
> My name ins Wolfram Garten, I used to work for the QA of
> OracleOpenOffice/OpenOffice here in Hamburg. You may know me as
> wg(@)openoffice.org. Draw and Impress were my areas of interest,
> including the manual and automated testing for these aplications.
> As I read through the Apache page I found two pages dealing a little bit
> closer with the QA stuff:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-QA-Plan
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Site-QA-Plan
> Sadly a lot of stuff in the old OOo pages has gone off the wire, like
> all the knowledge that Quaste used to host.
> Nevertheless I would like to see the QA come to life again in the new
> Apache home. So, if there is something I can help with I will try.
> And yes: I would prefer public builds, too. Since all that "building a
> version on my own" seems more like witchcraft to me ;-)

Yes, this is a needed step, but as Rob wrote, we currently have no place
to put those builds (and where these would be accessible from outside,
of course :-)), neither do we have buildbots currently. This needs to
change.

> It may not work every day but at least I'm trying to have a look in here
> every day.

Welcome!

> Thanks for reading,
> regards,
> 
> Wolfram
> 
> 
[..]

Sincerely,
Armin
--
ALG

Re: MacOS X Lion compatible

[Jürgen Schmidt]

On 11/1/11 4:18 PM, FR web forum wrote:

Dearest devs,

 From the french forum, some users report that 3.3.0 release is not compatible 
with newest MacOS X 10.7.3 (aka Lion).

Are you aware of that?
mmh, i am using OOo 3.3 on my MacBook running Lion. I haven't detected 
any problems so far.


Do you have more details what the their problem is?

Juergen

Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release

[Dave Fisher]

posted only to ooo-dev

On Nov 1, 2011, at 8:15 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

> If every post on this thread is being cross-posted to two lists, why is it 
> being conducted on two lists?  All it does is expose the prospect of the 
> thread forking between the two lists and turning into a tangled mess.  It 
> also forces anyone who is keen on this topic to read both lists to make sure 
> that eventuality is forestalled.

SInce I use rules to move mail to folders these all looked like ooo-dev to me 
as that rule is earlier in my list.

So, +1. Please be careful with cross-posting.

I recommend that a single list be chosen for continuation.

Shane suggested continuing here on ooo-dev this time and later use 
ooo-marketing.

>  
> 
> At present, instead of providing shelter of the ooo-marketing list from the 
> clutter on ooo-dev, this is either adding clutter to ooo-dev or it really 
> needs to be a [DISCUSS] there. 

Perhaps a DISCUSS on ooo-marketing can be announced on ooo-dev with an 
[ooo-marketing] tag?

Regards,
Dave


> 
> 
> 
> - Dennis E. Hamilton
>   tools for document interoperability,  
>   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release

[Rob Weir]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> If every post on this thread is being cross-posted to two lists, why is it 
> being conducted on two lists?  All it does is expose the prospect of the 
> thread forking between the two lists and turning into a tangled mess.  It 
> also forces anyone who is keen on this topic to read both lists to make sure 
> that eventuality is forestalled.
>
> I recommend that a single list be chosen for continuation.
>

My intent was to have the discussion on ooo-marketing.  I was just
notifying ooo-dev on the proposed terms and timing of the discussion.
I will start a new [DISCUSS] thread on only ooo-marketing and will
send a cc to ooo-dev when the [VOTE] thread kicks off as well.  Sorry
if this caused confusion.  You can stop cross posting now.

-Rob


> At present, instead of providing shelter of the ooo-marketing list from the 
> clutter on ooo-dev, this is either adding clutter to ooo-dev or it really 
> needs to be a [DISCUSS] there.
>
>
>
>  - Dennis E. Hamilton
>   tools for document interoperability,  
>   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid
>
>
>
>
>

new committer: Ariel Constenla-Haile

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

The Apache OOo PPMC announces the addition of committer
Ariel Constenla-Haile: Apache ID "arielch"

The list of all current podling committers is at:
.

Committers have a defined role in the workings of the Apache
Software Foundation:
.



- the AOOo PPMC


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

MacOS X Lion compatible

[FR web forum]

Dearest devs,

>From the french forum, some users report that 3.3.0 release is not compatible 
>with newest MacOS X 10.7.3 (aka Lion).

Are you aware of that?

new committer: T.J. Frazier

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

The Apache OOo PPMC announces the addition of initial committer
T.J. Frazier: Apache ID "tj"

The list of all current podling committers is at:
.

Committers have a defined role in the workings of the Apache
Software Foundation:
.



- the AOOo PPMC

RE: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

If every post on this thread is being cross-posted to two lists, why is it 
being conducted on two lists?  All it does is expose the prospect of the thread 
forking between the two lists and turning into a tangled mess.  It also forces 
anyone who is keen on this topic to read both lists to make sure that 
eventuality is forestalled.

I recommend that a single list be chosen for continuation.  

At present, instead of providing shelter of the ooo-marketing list from the 
clutter on ooo-dev, this is either adding clutter to ooo-dev or it really needs 
to be a [DISCUSS] there. 



 - Dennis E. Hamilton
   tools for document interoperability,  
   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid

[DISCUSS]: new home for pre-built unowinreg.dll

[Jürgen Schmidt]

Hi,

for all unix builds it is possible to use a pre-built unowinreg.dll that 
is used in the SDK for Java client applications.


Background:
This dll contains some glue code that helps to find a default office 
installation on windows. This is used to bootstrap an UNO environment 
and establish a remote connection to an existing or new office instance 
from the Java client application that triggers this code.


If is possible to cross compile this dll with mingw in some way but not 
really necessary. It was always possible to download a pre-built version 
and include it in the SDK on all plattforms expecting Windows where it 
is built always.


I would suggest that we store this pre-built dll somewhere to ensure 
that this mechanism can be used or will work in the future as well.


The URL to download the pre-built version is
http://tools.openoffice.org/unowinreg_prebuild/680/unowinreg.dll

The code is part of the odk module and is quite simple. Means it can be 
always checked what's in the dll. We can apply a md5 checksum to ensure 
that no manipulated dll is downloaded.


Any ideas where we can store this dll in the future?


Juergen

Re: Want to blog

[Oliver-Rainer Wittmann]

Hi Gavin,

On 01.11.2011 12:41, Gavin McDonald wrote:




-Original Message-
From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 9:13 PM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Want to blog

Am 11/01/2011 11:46 AM, schrieb Armin Le Grand:

I wanted to blog about e.g. extended OLE attribute/geometry stuff in
http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ to make new possibilities more known to
the public. Looks like if I have to do a JIRA request.

If there are no objections I will put in an Infra request to get added
as an blog author for the project's blog.


I've tried to send you an invitation for getting an author but it failed.

Maybe

we have to wait 1-2 days before your user name is known everywhere at
ASF.


Blogs is not LDAP aware and so accounts need to be requested and then
created
(by me usually.)

At that stage you can invite Armin in though I usually do that at the same
time.

I just need an ok from a PPMC member ...



Here is another Ok.

Can you also add myself to the blog world?
After a corresponding Ok from another PPMC member, of course.

Thanks in advance, Oliver.

Re: Want to blog

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 11/01/2011 12:41 PM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:




-Original Message-
From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 9:13 PM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Want to blog

Am 11/01/2011 11:46 AM, schrieb Armin Le Grand:

I wanted to blog about e.g. extended OLE attribute/geometry stuff in
http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ to make new possibilities more known to
the public. Looks like if I have to do a JIRA request.

If there are no objections I will put in an Infra request to get added
as an blog author for the project's blog.


I've tried to send you an invitation for getting an author but it failed.

Maybe

we have to wait 1-2 days before your user name is known everywhere at
ASF.


Blogs is not LDAP aware and so accounts need to be requested and then
created
(by me usually.)

At that stage you can invite Armin in though I usually do that at the same
time.

I just need an ok from a PPMC member ...

Gav...



Marcus


OK, thanks for that information.

From myside it's OK to let Armin into the blog world.

Marcus

Re: Want to blog

[Rob Weir]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 7:41 AM, Gavin McDonald  wrote:
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 9:13 PM
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Want to blog
>>
>> Am 11/01/2011 11:46 AM, schrieb Armin Le Grand:
>> > I wanted to blog about e.g. extended OLE attribute/geometry stuff in
>> > http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ to make new possibilities more known to
>> > the public. Looks like if I have to do a JIRA request.
>> >
>> > If there are no objections I will put in an Infra request to get added
>> > as an blog author for the project's blog.
>>
>> I've tried to send you an invitation for getting an author but it failed.
> Maybe
>> we have to wait 1-2 days before your user name is known everywhere at
>> ASF.
>
> Blogs is not LDAP aware and so accounts need to be requested and then
> created
> (by me usually.)
>
> At that stage you can invite Armin in though I usually do that at the same
> time.
>
> I just need an ok from a PPMC member ...
>

+1

> Gav...
>
>>
>> Marcus
>
>

RE: [IMPORTANT][INFO]: wiki problems

[Gavin McDonald]

> -Original Message-
> From: Andre Fischer [mailto:a...@a-w-f.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 9:07 PM
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [IMPORTANT][INFO]: wiki problems
> 
> On 01.11.2011 11:57, TJ Frazier wrote:
> > On 11/1/2011 06:16, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> i have noticed a problem when changing my wiki profile.
> >> When i try to change for example my email address in my wiki profile
> >> i got a confirmation email containing a confirmation link. This link
> >> starts with "http://127.0.0.1/wiki/Special:ConfirmEmail/..."; that
> >> can't work. Changing the localhost ip address to
> >> wiki.services.openoffice.org and everything works as expected.
> >>
> >> Maybe one of the admins can have a look on it. It can confuse new
users.
> >>
> >> Juergen
> >>
> >>
> > Hi, Jürgen,
> >
> > Yes, this is a problem which shows up in several places. I believe it
> > is related to the front-ending of Apache Traffic Server, since that IP
> > is the address of ATS. I am certain that the "magic word" (technical
> > term,
> > honest) "{{fullurl}}" is returning this instead of the desired string.
> >
> > Might I ask where you changed "the localhost ip address"? Maybe I can
> > fix that myself. Otherwise, it's a matter for installation parameters,
> > or PHP in the Parser Extension, and those are beyond my reach.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I ran into the same problem.
> 
> Just replace "http://127.0.0.1/wiki/Special:ConfirmEmail/...";
> with "http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Special:ConfirmEmail/...";

Yeah pretty sure this is ATS related, I'll take a look, might be a few hours
though.

Gav...

> 
> Regards,
> Andre
> >

RE: Want to blog

[Gavin McDonald]

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 9:13 PM
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Want to blog
> 
> Am 11/01/2011 11:46 AM, schrieb Armin Le Grand:
> > I wanted to blog about e.g. extended OLE attribute/geometry stuff in
> > http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ to make new possibilities more known to
> > the public. Looks like if I have to do a JIRA request.
> >
> > If there are no objections I will put in an Infra request to get added
> > as an blog author for the project's blog.
> 
> I've tried to send you an invitation for getting an author but it failed.
Maybe
> we have to wait 1-2 days before your user name is known everywhere at
> ASF.

Blogs is not LDAP aware and so accounts need to be requested and then
created
(by me usually.)

At that stage you can invite Armin in though I usually do that at the same
time.

I just need an ok from a PPMC member ...

Gav...

> 
> Marcus

Re: Want to blog

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 11/01/2011 11:46 AM, schrieb Armin Le Grand:

I wanted to blog about e.g. extended OLE attribute/geometry stuff in
http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ to make new possibilities more known to the
public. Looks like if I have to do a JIRA request.

If there are no objections I will put in an Infra request to get
added as an blog author for the project's blog.


I've tried to send you an invitation for getting an author but it 
failed. Maybe we have to wait 1-2 days before your user name is known 
everywhere at ASF.


Marcus

Re: [IMPORTANT][INFO]: wiki problems

[Andre Fischer]

On 01.11.2011 11:57, TJ Frazier wrote:

On 11/1/2011 06:16, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:

Hi,

i have noticed a problem when changing my wiki profile.
When i try to change for example my email address in my wiki profile i
got a confirmation email containing a confirmation link. This link
starts with "http://127.0.0.1/wiki/Special:ConfirmEmail/..."; that can't
work. Changing the localhost ip address to wiki.services.openoffice.org
and everything works as expected.

Maybe one of the admins can have a look on it. It can confuse new users.

Juergen



Hi, Jürgen,

Yes, this is a problem which shows up in several places. I believe it is
related to the front-ending of Apache Traffic Server, since that IP is
the address of ATS. I am certain that the "magic word" (technical term,
honest) "{{fullurl}}" is returning this instead of the desired string.

Might I ask where you changed "the localhost ip address"? Maybe I can
fix that myself. Otherwise, it's a matter for installation parameters,
or PHP in the Parser Extension, and those are beyond my reach.


Hi,

I ran into the same problem.

Just replace "http://127.0.0.1/wiki/Special:ConfirmEmail/...";
with "http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Special:ConfirmEmail/...";

Regards,
Andre

Re: [IMPORTANT][INFO]: wiki problems

[TJ Frazier]

On 11/1/2011 06:16, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:

Hi,

i have noticed a problem when changing my wiki profile.
When i try to change for example my email address in my wiki profile i
got a confirmation email containing a confirmation link. This link
starts with "http://127.0.0.1/wiki/Special:ConfirmEmail/..."; that can't
work. Changing the localhost ip address to wiki.services.openoffice.org
and everything works as expected.

Maybe one of the admins can have a look on it. It can confuse new users.

Juergen



Hi, Jürgen,

Yes, this is a problem which shows up in several places. I believe it is 
related to the front-ending of Apache Traffic Server, since that IP is 
the address of ATS. I am certain that the "magic word" (technical term, 
honest) "{{fullurl}}" is returning this instead of the desired string.


Might I ask where you changed "the localhost ip address"? Maybe I can 
fix that myself. Otherwise, it's a matter for installation parameters, 
or PHP in the Parser Extension, and those are beyond my reach.


--
/tj/

Re: Greetings from Betsy

[Rob Weir]

2011/10/31 Jing BJCDL Bai :
>
>
> Greetings! I just joined this group. I am Betsy Bai  - ID team lead for IBM
> Lotus Symphony since 2008.
>

ID == Information Development == Documentation

One of many buzzwords we have at IBM.

> It is great to work with the experts in this community. My interested area
> is to create and maintain the editor help and other documentation that can
> bridge the gap between people and software, make the product more
> accessible to people.
>
> In ApacheOpenoffice community, I will be pleased to contribute to build the
> help infrastructure, process to create and maintain the documentation. The
> draft idea is to make the help more collaborative and interactive. WIKI
> help would be a good candidate which has been implemented already for Lotus
> Symphony help.
>
> I have one questions to the experts:
>
> Where can I get the current documentation infrastructure, and the current
> status?
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Best regards,
> Betsy(柏静)
> ID team lead,  Lotus Symphony & IBM Docs
> IBM China Software Development Laboratory
> Telephone: 86-10-82451376
> Internal Mail: jing...@cn.ibm.com
> Address:28,ZhongGuanCun Software Park,No.8 Dong Bei Wang West Road, Haidian
> District Beijing P.R.China 100193

Want to blog

[Armin Le Grand]

Hi *,

I wanted to blog about e.g. extended OLE attribute/geometry stuff in 
http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ to make new possibilities more known to the 
public. Looks like if I have to do a JIRA request.


If there are no objections I will put in an Infra request to get
added as an blog author for the project's blog.

Sincerely,
Armin
--
ALG

[IMPORTANT][INFO]: wiki problems

[Jürgen Schmidt]

Hi,

i have noticed a problem when changing my wiki profile.
When i try to change for example my email address in my wiki profile i 
got a confirmation email containing a confirmation link. This link 
starts with "http://127.0.0.1/wiki/Special:ConfirmEmail/..."; that can't 
work. Changing the localhost ip address to wiki.services.openoffice.org 
and everything works as expected.


Maybe one of the admins can have a look on it. It can confuse new users.

Juergen

Re: Staging For Apache Hosted OpenOffice.org Website

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 11/01/2011 05:31 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:


On Oct 31, 2011, at 7:28 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:



On Oct 31, 2011, at 10:25 AM, Claudio F Filho wrote:


Hi

On 30-10-2011 21:48, Dave Fisher wrote:

Hi Andrea,

The "it" Italian site is now available at http://ooo-site.apache.org/it/
The "fr" French site is being checked in and built now at 
http://ooo-site.apache.org/fr/
The "es" Spanish site was made available yesterday at 
http://ooo-site.apache.org/es/
The "de" German site is available at http://ooo-site.apache.org/de/


Today these have been added:

The "ja" Japanese site is available at http://ooo-site.apache.org/ja/
The "pt-br" Brazilian site is available at http::// ooo-site.apache.org/pt-br/

AND

The "zh" Chinese site is is available at http://ooo-site.apache.org/zh/

Best Regards,
Dave


it looks great to see the website migration is going forward. Many 
thanks for your work and taking care. :-)


I hope that I've some time to review some parts.

Marcus

Re: [licensing] On Apache Releases [WAS Re: Clarification on treatment of "weak copyleft" components]

[Ross Gardler]

Sent from my mobile device, please forgive errors and brevity.
On Oct 20, 2011 9:40 PM, "Robert Burrell Donkin" <
robertburrelldon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 9:01 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Robert Burrell Donkin
>
> 
>
> >> At Apache, a "source release" is (just) what's in version control when
> >> the release is cut, is canonical and mandatory. Other artifacts follow
> >> the "binary release" rules, are optional and secondary.
> >>
> >
> > OK.  So obviously no "weak" copyleft source files in our source
> > release, i.e., in our source tarballs.
>
> +1
>
> 
>
> > The approach we currently have for these components, in OpenOffice, is:
> >
> > 1) The 3rd party components are stored in a separate repository, not
> > with the core product's SVN.  So we reduce the opportunity for
> > contamination.
> >
> > 2) The build script downloads the source for these components and
> > compiles them.
> >
> > So we avoid the pre-req/provisioning issue.  And we don't need to
> > include the MPL code in the source distribution.  It comes down
> > automatically at build time,
> >
> > That may satisfy the letter of what I'm reading.  But I'd be
> > interested to hear what you think, whether something like that had
> > been done at Apache before.
>
> Most projects use this sort of approach (though there is a strong
> minority view that thinks that they are wrong to do so)

That is not my understanding. As far as I am aware automated downloading of
incompatible licensed coffee is not acceptable.

Providing a separate convenience script that prepares the tree might be
acceptable (need to check with legal-discuss). The difference is th at
there I'd an opportunity to inform the downstream.

Ross

>
> There has been historic resistance to hosting weak copyleft source at
> Apache but there's now a consensus that requirements to supply source
> in perpetuity mean that we'll have to host it sooner or later, most
> likely in a separate repository.
>
> > Maybe it would be better, for example, to allow two build modes, one
> > with and one without the copyleft components, and force the downstream
> > developer to explicitly enable the compilation with weak copyleft
> > components by changing a flag or something?
>
> Always a good idea to let developers know what's happening
>
> Some downstream consumers (in particular, packagers) want to compile
> against their own system dependencies so IMHO it'd be cleaner just to
> switch on or off dependency download, preferrably with fine control.
>
> Robert

[CODE] review 118560 - slide sorter: slide selection is broken

[Andre Fischer]

Hi all,

can somebody review and commit the patch in issue 118560?
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118560

It is a very simple fix and will not take much time to review.

Thanks,
Andre

Re: Process for deciding on branding strategy for our first release

[Ross Gardler]

Sent from my mobile device, please forgive errors and brevity.
On Nov 1, 2011 12:52 AM, "Simon Phipps"  wrote:
>
>
> On 1 Nov 2011, at 00:44, Nóirín Plunkett wrote:
> >
> > My understanding is that this "oddity" came about because the
> > "OpenOffice" trademark is owned by another group (or groups?) in
> > various countries.
>
> That was indeed the case, but the number of places where there is an
overlapping registration has become very small due to great work by the Sun
trademark law team over the last few years.
>
> > I expect that we would require at least some
> > confidence that they wouldn't give us grief, if we were to call the
> > project Apache OpenOffice. (We'd also have to be careful to always use
> > the full name, and not to abbreviate to "OpenOffice")
>
> While I'd expect project members acting in an official capacity to be
very careful with how they cite the project name anyway (or face the Wrath
of Shane), abbreviating the name to "Open Office" or variants has been
common casual usage for years already with little consequence.
>
> S.

Also note that the "(Incubating)"is not optional at this point (I say this
because I was reading a slide deck this morning that did not make this
distinction).

Ross


>
>
 On Nov 1, 2011 12:52 AM, "Simon Phipps"  wrote:

Re: Greetings from Betsy

[Jürgen Schmidt]

On 11/1/11 3:48 AM, Jing BJCDL Bai wrote:



Greetings! I just joined this group. I am Betsy Bai  - ID team lead for IBM
Lotus Symphony since 2008.

It is great to work with the experts in this community. My interested area
is to create and maintain the editor help and other documentation that can
bridge the gap between people and software, make the product more
accessible to people.

In ApacheOpenoffice community, I will be pleased to contribute to build the
help infrastructure, process to create and maintain the documentation. The
draft idea is to make the help more collaborative and interactive. WIKI
help would be a good candidate which has been implemented already for Lotus
Symphony help.


hi Betsy, welcome on board, it's great to see that more and more people 
join the project.




I have one questions to the experts:

Where can I get the current documentation infrastructure, and the current
status?
the help content is currently coming from xhp files that you can find in 
the helpcontent2 module in the source. xhp files are xml files that can 
be edited with the office (a special filter is required) and there 
exists an extensions that can help to edit these files. It's a 
collection of macros as far as i know that provides some useful tooling 
to manage help-ids etc. But i am not expert here and i can't say where 
to find this extension. but i will try to figure that out or hopefully 
somebody else can help us. These help files are part of the final 
binary, they will be indexed etc. and the integrated help system 
provides the access during runtime. As i mentioned before i am no expert 
here and don't know the details.


Documentation is handled differently. Many stuff can be find in the OOo 
wiki (which is now migrated) to 
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Main_Page, see the 
documentation area http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation


And there is a very active group of authors who work on new guides, 
updates or enhancement of existing documentation. The communication took 
place on the d...@documentation.openoffice.org mailing list and now here 
on this list ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org. Maybe later we will create a 
new documentation specific mailing list.


I hope that helps a little bit and please fell free to ask further 
questions.


Juergen

new committer: Armin Le Grand and Oliver-Rainer Wittmann

[Jürgen Schmidt]

The Apache OOo PPMC announces the addition of initial committer
Armin Le Grand: alg at apache.org.
Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: orw at apache.org

The list of all current podling committers is at:
.

Committers have a defined role in the workings of the Apache
Software Foundation:
.



- the AOOo PPMC