Re: Hosting OpenGrok?
Jürgen, On Oct 15, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf wrote: Jürgen Schmidt wrote on Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 00:04:59 +0200: I don't wanted to be arrogant or presumptuous but i really don't care here about other projects. Infra won't install your stuff without considering the effect on the 100 or so other ASF projects too. One of the advantages that Oracle provided was support for a lot of infrastructure. This included enough sysadmin support. We've seen what happens now that those resources are elsewhere. The difference at the ASF is one of bootstrapping. Apache Infrastructure is a team of volunteers and they can only support so much. When a new set of necessary infrastructure like MediaWiki or OpenGrok is requested it becomes the requesting project's responsibility to provide enough volunteers to convince Apache Infrastructure that they won't be stuck with an operational or security problem. I'm not sure if this particular no from Apache Infrastructure is more a blanket no due to issues like adding load on the SVN repos, or is more another project request that the project can't support. As a project we are only now getting a handle on sysadmin of the migrated BZ instance. MediaWiki and Fora are about ready and Infra is supportive even with a bare minimum of support from AOOo. I don't think we have enough clear volunteers for the MW and the User Forums, but we are close. Regards, Dave
RE: Hosting OpenGrok?
+1 It is important to understand the responsibility of the AOOo project to support its infrastructural needs beyond the basics that are available to all projects. And even then, the project has curation and administration responsibility for aspects of the SVN (e.g., how it is used to deploy web properties) and especially the Bugzilla. Dave captures the tension between what is wanted and what is offered quite neatly. It goes farther to offer support for something than to request provision of it as if support comes for free. And infrastructure has a primary concern in assuring that offered support is sustainable. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 10:35 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Cc: Jürgen Schmidt Subject: Re: Hosting OpenGrok? Jürgen, On Oct 15, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf wrote: Jürgen Schmidt wrote on Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 00:04:59 +0200: I don't wanted to be arrogant or presumptuous but i really don't care here about other projects. Infra won't install your stuff without considering the effect on the 100 or so other ASF projects too. One of the advantages that Oracle provided was support for a lot of infrastructure. This included enough sysadmin support. We've seen what happens now that those resources are elsewhere. The difference at the ASF is one of bootstrapping. Apache Infrastructure is a team of volunteers and they can only support so much. When a new set of necessary infrastructure like MediaWiki or OpenGrok is requested it becomes the requesting project's responsibility to provide enough volunteers to convince Apache Infrastructure that they won't be stuck with an operational or security problem. I'm not sure if this particular no from Apache Infrastructure is more a blanket no due to issues like adding load on the SVN repos, or is more another project request that the project can't support. As a project we are only now getting a handle on sysadmin of the migrated BZ instance. MediaWiki and Fora are about ready and Infra is supportive even with a bare minimum of support from AOOo. I don't think we have enough clear volunteers for the MW and the User Forums, but we are close. Regards, Dave=
RE: Hosting OpenGrok?
Hi All, We already use Atlassians Fisheye tool on an external copy of our repo. This has excellent tools including the code search facilities you need. The ViewVC search facility has been investigated and discounted at this time due to DoS and other concerns. OpenGrok would be yet another tool introduced to the ASF and ultimately another one infra would need to support for install and for any future upgrades. We have many requests for tool X from project Y and we just can't say yes to them all. At this time I would urge the project to use the Fisheye instance, let me know if you have any questions about it. Thanks Gav... https://fisheye6.atlassian.com/browse/ooo -Original Message- From: Daniel Shahaf [mailto:d...@daniel.shahaf.name] Sent: Saturday, 15 October 2011 2:25 AM To: Rob Weir Cc: infrastruct...@apache.org; ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Hosting OpenGrok? Someone asked this a couple of weeks ago, IIRC the answer was (a) need to evaluate this, (b) viewvc (which is already installed) has a search feature, whether it would be sufficient. Rob Weir wrote on Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 18:58:27 -0400: The legacy OpenOffice.org project had an instance [1] of a source code searching, cross reference application called OpenGrok[2]. It is very useful, especially in a 6 million LOC project like OOo. Have we ever used OpenGrok at Apache? If not, is there an alternative that other projects are using? Or are most other projects small enough that local IDE cross reference databases are sufficient? The pre-req's for OpenGrok are on their website [3] and include GlassFish or Tomcat (6.x or later) with Java at least 1.6, and Exuberant Ctags [4] Is this something that appears technical feasible, based on the server support have at Apache? Easy, medium or hard? If this seems like a relatively easy thing to get hosted on Apache infrastructure, we can discuss further on the project to see if we can find a volunteer to drive it. But I wanted to check first to see if this looked reasonable. Regards, -Rob [1] http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/ [2] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/WebHome [3] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/installdescriptio n [4] http://ctags.sourceforge.net/
Re: Hosting OpenGrok?
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Daniel Shahaf d...@daniel.shahaf.namewrote: Someone asked this a couple of weeks ago, IIRC the answer was (a) need to evaluate this, (b) viewvc (which is already installed) has a search feature, whether it would be sufficient. yes, that was me who asked on the infra structure mailing list and i will come back to the evaluation. But after the first look i tend to evaluate opengrok in a zone, vm or whatever on the Apache infra structure. From a developers perspective opengrok is an absolutely necessary tool that we need. Juergen Rob Weir wrote on Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 18:58:27 -0400: The legacy OpenOffice.org project had an instance [1] of a source code searching, cross reference application called OpenGrok[2]. It is very useful, especially in a 6 million LOC project like OOo. Have we ever used OpenGrok at Apache? If not, is there an alternative that other projects are using? Or are most other projects small enough that local IDE cross reference databases are sufficient? The pre-req's for OpenGrok are on their website [3] and include GlassFish or Tomcat (6.x or later) with Java at least 1.6, and Exuberant Ctags [4] Is this something that appears technical feasible, based on the server support have at Apache? Easy, medium or hard? If this seems like a relatively easy thing to get hosted on Apache infrastructure, we can discuss further on the project to see if we can find a volunteer to drive it. But I wanted to check first to see if this looked reasonable. Regards, -Rob [1] http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/ [2] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/WebHome [3] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/installdescription [4] http://ctags.sourceforge.net/
RE: Hosting OpenGrok?
-Original Message- From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@googlemail.com] Sent: Sunday, 16 October 2011 6:40 AM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Hosting OpenGrok? On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Daniel Shahaf d...@daniel.shahaf.namewrote: Someone asked this a couple of weeks ago, IIRC the answer was (a) need to evaluate this, (b) viewvc (which is already installed) has a search feature, whether it would be sufficient. yes, that was me who asked on the infra structure mailing list and i will come back to the evaluation. But after the first look i tend to evaluate opengrok in a zone, vm or whatever on the Apache infra structure. From a developers perspective opengrok is an absolutely necessary tool that we need. That is a little bit presumptuous of the 3000+ committers who have so far not needed it. See my other reply. Gav... Juergen Rob Weir wrote on Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 18:58:27 -0400: The legacy OpenOffice.org project had an instance [1] of a source code searching, cross reference application called OpenGrok[2]. It is very useful, especially in a 6 million LOC project like OOo. Have we ever used OpenGrok at Apache? If not, is there an alternative that other projects are using? Or are most other projects small enough that local IDE cross reference databases are sufficient? The pre-req's for OpenGrok are on their website [3] and include GlassFish or Tomcat (6.x or later) with Java at least 1.6, and Exuberant Ctags [4] Is this something that appears technical feasible, based on the server support have at Apache? Easy, medium or hard? If this seems like a relatively easy thing to get hosted on Apache infrastructure, we can discuss further on the project to see if we can find a volunteer to drive it. But I wanted to check first to see if this looked reasonable. Regards, -Rob [1] http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/ [2] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/WebHome [3] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/installdescriptio n [4] http://ctags.sourceforge.net/
Re: Hosting OpenGrok?
Jürgen Schmidt wrote on Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 22:39:56 +0200: On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Daniel Shahaf d...@daniel.shahaf.namewrote: Someone asked this a couple of weeks ago, IIRC the answer was (a) need to evaluate this, (b) viewvc (which is already installed) has a search feature, whether it would be sufficient. yes, that was me who asked on the infra structure mailing list and i will come back to the evaluation. But after the first look i tend to evaluate opengrok in a zone, vm or whatever on the Apache infra structure. From a developers perspective opengrok is an absolutely necessary tool that we need. Have you seen Gavin's reply saying that fisheye is available? Does that change your opinion? Juergen Rob Weir wrote on Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 18:58:27 -0400: The legacy OpenOffice.org project had an instance [1] of a source code searching, cross reference application called OpenGrok[2]. It is very useful, especially in a 6 million LOC project like OOo. Have we ever used OpenGrok at Apache? If not, is there an alternative that other projects are using? Or are most other projects small enough that local IDE cross reference databases are sufficient? The pre-req's for OpenGrok are on their website [3] and include GlassFish or Tomcat (6.x or later) with Java at least 1.6, and Exuberant Ctags [4] Is this something that appears technical feasible, based on the server support have at Apache? Easy, medium or hard? If this seems like a relatively easy thing to get hosted on Apache infrastructure, we can discuss further on the project to see if we can find a volunteer to drive it. But I wanted to check first to see if this looked reasonable. Regards, -Rob [1] http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/ [2] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/WebHome [3] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/installdescription [4] http://ctags.sourceforge.net/
Re: Hosting OpenGrok?
On 15.10.2011 22:13, Gavin McDonald wrote: Hi All, We already use Atlassians Fisheye tool on an external copy of our repo. This has excellent tools including the code search facilities you need. it looks like an interesting tool in its own right, but... The ViewVC search facility has been investigated and discounted at this time due to DoS and other concerns. OpenGrok would be yet another tool introduced to the ASF and ultimately another one infra would need to support for install and for any future upgrades. We have many requests for tool X from project Y and we just can't say yes to them all. the killer feature of OpenGrok is that it can search for definitions. for example try this: http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/search?q=defs=sal_uInt32refs=path=hist=project=%2FCurrent+%28trunk%29 not perfect (in fact the results here surprise me a bit), but very useful. At this time I would urge the project to use the Fisheye instance, let me know if you have any questions about it. i have a question: how do i search for definitions with this thing? regards, michael
Re: Hosting OpenGrok?
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Gavin McDonald ga...@16degrees.com.auwrote: -Original Message- From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@googlemail.com] Sent: Sunday, 16 October 2011 6:40 AM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Hosting OpenGrok? On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Daniel Shahaf d...@daniel.shahaf.namewrote: Someone asked this a couple of weeks ago, IIRC the answer was (a) need to evaluate this, (b) viewvc (which is already installed) has a search feature, whether it would be sufficient. yes, that was me who asked on the infra structure mailing list and i will come back to the evaluation. But after the first look i tend to evaluate opengrok in a zone, vm or whatever on the Apache infra structure. From a developers perspective opengrok is an absolutely necessary tool that we need. That is a little bit presumptuous of the 3000+ committers who have so far not needed it. i have not talked about other Apache projects or the experience of other developers working on these projects. I simply tried to express my experience that probably other developers working on the huge code base of AOO can confirm. OpenGrok is extremely useful, we had very good experience with it and i think we need such a tool. Try http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/ If you have a link to something comparable that we can try please let us know. As far as i have understood viewvc it seems to be also useful but is not comparable with OpenGrok. We used OpenGrok to search quite fast in the source code (version specific) for any kind of source relevant strings (member names, method or type names, ) I don't wanted to be arrogant or presumptuous but i really don't care here about other projects. I simply would like to achieve that i can work on AOO efficiently as in the past. If other projects later on think that they can benefit from using OpenGrok as well then it is even better. Juergen See my other reply. Gav... Juergen Rob Weir wrote on Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 18:58:27 -0400: The legacy OpenOffice.org project had an instance [1] of a source code searching, cross reference application called OpenGrok[2]. It is very useful, especially in a 6 million LOC project like OOo. Have we ever used OpenGrok at Apache? If not, is there an alternative that other projects are using? Or are most other projects small enough that local IDE cross reference databases are sufficient? The pre-req's for OpenGrok are on their website [3] and include GlassFish or Tomcat (6.x or later) with Java at least 1.6, and Exuberant Ctags [4] Is this something that appears technical feasible, based on the server support have at Apache? Easy, medium or hard? If this seems like a relatively easy thing to get hosted on Apache infrastructure, we can discuss further on the project to see if we can find a volunteer to drive it. But I wanted to check first to see if this looked reasonable. Regards, -Rob [1] http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/ [2] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/WebHome [3] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/installdescriptio n [4] http://ctags.sourceforge.net/
RE: Hosting OpenGrok?
-Original Message- From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@googlemail.com] Sent: Sunday, 16 October 2011 8:05 AM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; ga...@16degrees.com.au Subject: Re: Hosting OpenGrok? On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Gavin McDonald ga...@16degrees.com.auwrote: -Original Message- From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@googlemail.com] Sent: Sunday, 16 October 2011 6:40 AM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Hosting OpenGrok? On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Daniel Shahaf d...@daniel.shahaf.namewrote: Someone asked this a couple of weeks ago, IIRC the answer was (a) need to evaluate this, (b) viewvc (which is already installed) has a search feature, whether it would be sufficient. yes, that was me who asked on the infra structure mailing list and i will come back to the evaluation. But after the first look i tend to evaluate opengrok in a zone, vm or whatever on the Apache infra structure. From a developers perspective opengrok is an absolutely necessary tool that we need. That is a little bit presumptuous of the 3000+ committers who have so far not needed it. i have not talked about other Apache projects or the experience of other developers working on these projects. I simply tried to express my experience that probably other developers working on the huge code base of AOO can confirm. OpenGrok is extremely useful, we had very good experience with it and i think we need such a tool. Try http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/ If you have a link to something comparable that we can try please let us know. I already did in my other reply , please read it. As far as i have understood viewvc it seems to be also useful but is not comparable with OpenGrok. We used OpenGrok to search quite fast in the source code (version specific) for any kind of source relevant strings (member names, method or type names, ) I already discounted viewvc also, you did not read my other reply. I don't wanted to be arrogant or presumptuous but i really don't care here about other projects. I simply would like to achieve that i can work on AOO efficiently as in the past. If other projects later on think that they can benefit from using OpenGrok as well then it is even better. And I also already said not at this time. That means no. Gav... Juergen See my other reply. Gav... Juergen Rob Weir wrote on Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 18:58:27 -0400: The legacy OpenOffice.org project had an instance [1] of a source code searching, cross reference application called OpenGrok[2]. It is very useful, especially in a 6 million LOC project like OOo. Have we ever used OpenGrok at Apache? If not, is there an alternative that other projects are using? Or are most other projects small enough that local IDE cross reference databases are sufficient? The pre-req's for OpenGrok are on their website [3] and include GlassFish or Tomcat (6.x or later) with Java at least 1.6, and Exuberant Ctags [4] Is this something that appears technical feasible, based on the server support have at Apache? Easy, medium or hard? If this seems like a relatively easy thing to get hosted on Apache infrastructure, we can discuss further on the project to see if we can find a volunteer to drive it. But I wanted to check first to see if this looked reasonable. Regards, -Rob [1] http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/ [2] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/WebHome [3] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/installdescriptio n [4] http://ctags.sourceforge.net/
Re: Hosting OpenGrok?
Michael Stahl wrote on Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 23:51:53 +0200: On 15.10.2011 22:13, Gavin McDonald wrote: Hi All, We already use Atlassians Fisheye tool on an external copy of our repo. This has excellent tools including the code search facilities you need. it looks like an interesting tool in its own right, but... The ViewVC search facility has been investigated and discounted at this time due to DoS and other concerns. OpenGrok would be yet another tool introduced to the ASF and ultimately another one infra would need to support for install and for any future upgrades. We have many requests for tool X from project Y and we just can't say yes to them all. the killer feature of OpenGrok is that it can search for definitions. for example try this: http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/search?q=defs=sal_uInt32refs=path=hist=project=%2FCurrent+%28trunk%29 not perfect (in fact the results here surprise me a bit), but very useful. At this time I would urge the project to use the Fisheye instance, let me know if you have any questions about it. i have a question: how do i search for definitions with this thing? By installing (exuberant) ctags locally? Daniel (using a mathematician's interpretation of with) regards, michael
Re: Hosting OpenGrok?
Hi Rob, On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: The legacy OpenOffice.org project had an instance [1] of a source code searching, cross reference application called OpenGrok[2]. It is very useful, especially in a 6 million LOC project like OOo... I'm not on the infra team so cannot comment on hosting on our main infrastructure, but one thing that you can do for sure is to get a zone or jail for OOo [0] and have your PPMC install and run that software themselves. I'm not sure if and how often those are backed up, so you might need to sort out that, and I also don't think they are considered critical, so the service might not be available 24/7 - just wanted to make sure you are aware of this possibility. -Bertrand [0] http://www.apache.org/dev/solaris-zones.html - I think those docs are out of date, nowadays infra is creating jails AFAIK, you can get one by creating an issue like https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-3481 [1] http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/ [2] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/WebHome [3] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/installdescription [4] http://ctags.sourceforge.net/
Re: Hosting OpenGrok?
Someone asked this a couple of weeks ago, IIRC the answer was (a) need to evaluate this, (b) viewvc (which is already installed) has a search feature, whether it would be sufficient. Rob Weir wrote on Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 18:58:27 -0400: The legacy OpenOffice.org project had an instance [1] of a source code searching, cross reference application called OpenGrok[2]. It is very useful, especially in a 6 million LOC project like OOo. Have we ever used OpenGrok at Apache? If not, is there an alternative that other projects are using? Or are most other projects small enough that local IDE cross reference databases are sufficient? The pre-req's for OpenGrok are on their website [3] and include GlassFish or Tomcat (6.x or later) with Java at least 1.6, and Exuberant Ctags [4] Is this something that appears technical feasible, based on the server support have at Apache? Easy, medium or hard? If this seems like a relatively easy thing to get hosted on Apache infrastructure, we can discuss further on the project to see if we can find a volunteer to drive it. But I wanted to check first to see if this looked reasonable. Regards, -Rob [1] http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/ [2] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/WebHome [3] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/installdescription [4] http://ctags.sourceforge.net/
