Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:00:32 -0700 Glenn Lagasse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Ken, * Ken Gunderson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:15:33 -0600 Jim Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Brian, Was there a flag day for this? If not, I would think about making one. Finding the bugs is a good thing, but impacting users that don't have time to be beta testers at the moment isn't. +1. Makes OS utterly unusable for me in any Sun packaged form, including SXDE, wh/I was told was supposedly more well tested version that would be more stable/suitable for workstation use. So, just to clarify some things. 1) this is not a problem in SXDE (I believe, since the last SXDE was from january). This is seen in the SXCE releases starting with 84 (I believe). 2) SXCE is an 'under development' release (which SXDE is based off of once we stabilize it). There are going to be bumps along the way. That said, lots of developers inside Sun (certainly in the Solaris org) run these builds to get real work done (which is how we find some of these more interesting problems). To clarify - I'm seeing Gnome crashes, Evolution in particular, on both latest SXDE and SXCE, builds 79 and 84, respectively. And on previous SXDE as well. Some might say just use Thunderbird but then I might as well use winblows For what it's worth, hardware in this instance is Tyan K8E and Opteron 180, wh/I believe is essentially same board Sun based for their X2100 on. Gnome bug buddy doesn't return anything useful but here's the scoop: 1) Pretty reliably repeatable for me - right click on message list window and reorder sorting to be Subject: From (instead of default From:Subject). Either during or shortly thereafter Evolution is going to crash. 2) Create new accounts - several crashes at various points during setup wizard. These were IMAP in all instances, didn't try POP3, etc. Seems to happen more towards end of wizard than beginning. 3) On couple occasions I was just in Gnome Terminal and crashed. Don't recall what I was doing specifically, but I SSH a lot into other boxes so that might be a good guess... I've used both Gnome and KDE off and on since 0.x days but ditched both in favor of Xfce in more recent years. In my opinion Sun (along with other US corps) bet on the wrong horse with Gnome. I'm looking forward to the ongoing KDE4 work (although KDE has become a bit too glitzy for me) but that's going to be a while yet. What would be really appreciated is if Sun/OS would invest some energies in porting Xfce - lightweight, fast, and sports a nice window manager that actually does useful things like shade on mouse title bar scroll, right click anywhere for full menu, page desktops on mouse scroll, etc. It's gtk based and attracts a lot of Gnome refugees to it's ranks, so should not be too hard to port, eh? -- Best regards, Ken Gunderson Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is putting a reply at the top of the message frowned upon? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] rpcbind and ports besides 111
Can anyone tell me why, rpcbind not only binds to udp/111, but also to some other random udp port above 32770. I can find lots of information about this be a vulnera bility and this and that, but I really cannot find any information as to the functional reason for this. This port is used for indirect calls where rpcbind is a client of another rpc service; indirect calls are used for broadcast services. At one time this was a vulnerability because it would actually respond to ordinary queries on that port. Casper ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] In Unix
Hi, Good Morning..!!! how will get the below lines, from Strat to End in between lines, i want to write in seprate file. #Start of lines added by SUNWscu 20 4 * * 0 /usr/cluster/lib/sc/newcleventlog /var/cluster/logs/eventlog 20 4 * * 0 /usr/cluster/lib/sc/newcleventlog /var/cluster/logs/DS # End of lines added by SUNWscu how can do this in using grep -A 2 filename or awk give me the solution bye, Raja This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
Glynn Foster wrote:
Hey,
Brian Nitz wrote:
A few things happened to make crashes more common in recent GNOME builds:
1) The GNOME community enabled coreing on ASSERTs in default builds, so
some subtle bugs became less subtle.
I'm confused. Has something changed recently? or is this still the code in
gnome-session/main.c? In which case it should only currently be triggered for
all x.y.z where y is an unstable number.
Glynn, thanks for the correction. I may have been looking at a
vermillion build. IThat part of the gnome-session main.c code doesn't
seem to have changed between 2.20 and 2.22:
if (g_getenv (GSM_VERBOSE_DEBUG))
gsm_set_verbose (TRUE);
/* Help eradicate the critical warnings in unstable releases of GNOME */
versions = g_strsplit (VERSION, ., 3);
if (versions versions [0] versions [1])
{
int major;
major = atoi (versions [1]);
if ((major % 2) != 0)
{
g_setenv (G_DEBUG, fatal_criticals, FALSE);
g_log_set_always_fatal (G_LOG_LEVEL_CRITICAL);
}
}
g_strfreev (versions);
So if the middle number of gnome-session --version is even, fail on
asserts shouldn't be set.
Do you happen to know if any individual desktop components look at their
own version number and attempt to override this setting? For example in
SNV_82:
gtkam --version gives 0.1.14
fc-cache --version gives fontconfig version 2.3.2.
pidgin --version gives Pidgin 2.1.1
...
___
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Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:02 AM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've used both Gnome and KDE off and on since 0.x days but ditched both in favor of Xfce in more recent years. In my opinion Sun (along with other US corps) bet on the wrong horse with Gnome. I'm looking forward to the ongoing KDE4 work (although KDE has become a bit too glitzy for me) but that's going to be a while yet. What would be really appreciated is if Sun/OS would invest some energies in porting Xfce - lightweight, fast, and sports a nice window manager that actually does useful things like shade on mouse title bar scroll, right click anywhere for full menu, page desktops on mouse scroll, etc. It's gtk based and attracts a lot of Gnome refugees to it's ranks, so should not be too hard to port, eh? xfce has a long way to go before getting to Section 508 compliance, etc. It also is relatively immature compared to KDE or GNOME for now. GNOME is far more mature as a platform than KDE or XFCE, right now, when it comes to accessibility, etc. For many business purposes, GNOME still has friendlier licensing than KDE or components KDE relies on as well. Sun spent millions on GNOME in years past before xfce was really known at all, so it makes sense for them to stick with their investment. -- Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ To err is human -- and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [osol-help] OpenSolaris build on Indiana
Ok. Now I have only errors in mod_ipp.c, but I don't need printing system. (It wants a header ap_config.h, which was removed). The other problem is a lot of arithmetic syntax errors like this: sh: echo \ndebug64/locore.ln; /opt/SUNWspro/bin/lint -c -dirout=debug64 -nsx muF -errtags=yes -Xarch=amd64 -erroff=E_BAD_PTR_CAST_ALIGN -erroff=E_SUSPICIOUS_ COMPARISON -erroff=E_SUPPRESSION_DIRECTIVE_UNUSED -erroff=E_STATIC_UNUSED -errof f=E_PTRDIFF_OVERFLOW -erroff=E_ASSIGN_NARROW_CONV -Xc99=%all -Dunix -D_KERNEL -D _SYSCALL32 -D_SYSCALL32_IMPL -D_ELF64 -D_DDI_STRICT -Dsun -D__sun -D__SVR4 -Di8 6pc -D_MACHDEP -DOPTERON_ERRATUM_88 -DOPTERON_ERRATUM_91 -DOPTERON_ERRATUM_93 -D OPTERON_ERRATUM_95 -DOPTERON_ERRATUM_99 -DOPTERON_ERRATUM_100 -DOPTERON_ERRATUM_ 101 -DOPTERON_ERRATUM_108 -DOPTERON_ERRATUM_109 -DOPTERON_ERRATUM_121 -DOPTERON_ ERRATUM_122 -DOPTERON_ERRATUM_123 -DOPTERON_ERRATUM_131 -DOPTERON_WORKAROUND_633 6786 -DOPTERON_WORKAROUND_6323525 -DOPTERON_ERRATUM_172 -DDEBUG -I../../i86p c -I/usr/src/20080310/usr/src/common -I../../intel -Y I,../../common ../../i86p c/ml/locore.s : arithmetic syntax error Does someone know what it means and how it may be solved? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
Brian Nitz wrote: Do you happen to know if any individual desktop components look at their own version number and attempt to override this setting? For example in SNV_82: gtkam --version gives 0.1.14 fc-cache --version gives fontconfig version 2.3.2. fc-cache fontconfig don't use gtk or glib at all - they're the layer below GNOME - and thus completely unaffected by any of this ASSERTing. -- -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] rpcbind and ports besides 111
Thanx, that helps a great deal. Now I know what to tell my security boys. Thanx again This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:46:38 -0500 Shawn Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:02 AM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've used both Gnome and KDE off and on since 0.x days but ditched both in favor of Xfce in more recent years. In my opinion Sun (along with other US corps) bet on the wrong horse with Gnome. I'm looking forward to the ongoing KDE4 work (although KDE has become a bit too glitzy for me) but that's going to be a while yet. What would be really appreciated is if Sun/OS would invest some energies in porting Xfce - lightweight, fast, and sports a nice window manager that actually does useful things like shade on mouse title bar scroll, right click anywhere for full menu, page desktops on mouse scroll, etc. It's gtk based and attracts a lot of Gnome refugees to it's ranks, so should not be too hard to port, eh? xfce has a long way to go before getting to Section 508 compliance, etc. Not sure about this one, but who cares? Why should majority suffer additional bloat and bugs for a small minority so long as _other_ options exist that _do_ accommodate that minority? It also is relatively immature compared to KDE or GNOME for now. -1 GNOME is far more mature as a platform than KDE or XFCE, right now, when it comes to accessibility, etc. -1 For many business purposes, GNOME still has friendlier licensing than KDE or components KDE relies on as well. Care to back this up with specific references? Sun spent millions on GNOME in years past before xfce was really known at all, so it makes sense for them to stick with their investment. No it doesn't. When you've made a mistake, smart leaders correct rather than pouring good money after bad. -- Best regards, Ken Gunderson Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is putting a reply at the top of the message frowned upon? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
* Ken Gunderson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:00:32 -0700 Glenn Lagasse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Ken, * Ken Gunderson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:15:33 -0600 Jim Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Brian, Was there a flag day for this? If not, I would think about making one. Finding the bugs is a good thing, but impacting users that don't have time to be beta testers at the moment isn't. +1. Makes OS utterly unusable for me in any Sun packaged form, including SXDE, wh/I was told was supposedly more well tested version that would be more stable/suitable for workstation use. So, just to clarify some things. 1) this is not a problem in SXDE (I believe, since the last SXDE was from january). This is seen in the SXCE releases starting with 84 (I believe). 2) SXCE is an 'under development' release (which SXDE is based off of once we stabilize it). There are going to be bumps along the way. That said, lots of developers inside Sun (certainly in the Solaris org) run these builds to get real work done (which is how we find some of these more interesting problems). To clarify - I'm seeing Gnome crashes, Evolution in particular, on both latest SXDE and SXCE, builds 79 and 84, respectively. And on previous SXDE as well. Some might say just use Thunderbird but then I might as well use winblows For what it's worth, hardware in this instance is Tyan K8E and Opteron 180, wh/I believe is essentially same board Sun based for their X2100 on. Ok, but that's different from what's being talked about in this thread. FWIW, I use Gnome in Indiana DP2 every day (and have been since DP2 released) and haven't had a Gnome crash yet. What would be really appreciated is if Sun/OS would invest some energies in porting Xfce - lightweight, fast, and sports a nice window manager that actually does useful things like shade on mouse title bar scroll, right click anywhere for full menu, page desktops on mouse scroll, etc. It's gtk based and attracts a lot of Gnome refugees to it's ranks, so should not be too hard to port, eh? Feel free to step right up and take that on :-) This is OpenSolaris after all. Cheers, -- Glenn ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:46:38 -0500 Shawn Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:02 AM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've used both Gnome and KDE off and on since 0.x days but ditched both in favor of Xfce in more recent years. In my opinion Sun (along with other US corps) bet on the wrong horse with Gnome. I'm looking forward to the ongoing KDE4 work (although KDE has become a bit too glitzy for me) but that's going to be a while yet. What would be really appreciated is if Sun/OS would invest some energies in porting Xfce - lightweight, fast, and sports a nice window manager that actually does useful things like shade on mouse title bar scroll, right click anywhere for full menu, page desktops on mouse scroll, etc. It's gtk based and attracts a lot of Gnome refugees to it's ranks, so should not be too hard to port, eh? xfce has a long way to go before getting to Section 508 compliance, etc. Not sure about this one, but who cares? Why should majority suffer additional bloat and bugs for a small minority so long as _other_ options exist that _do_ accommodate that minority? Sun as a public company is *required* by law to seek Section 508 compliance. People who don't have friends or family members, or who themselves are not physically disadvantaged in some way, often don't understand the need for Section 508 compliance. These folks are disadvantaged, through no fault of their own usually, and deserve the same opportunities we have to use software and live life. It also is relatively immature compared to KDE or GNOME for now. -1 -1 means nothing in this context. GNOME has a hig, has had numerous accessibility and other studies performed, and especially on Solaris, is far better supported. GNOME is far more mature as a platform than KDE or XFCE, right now, when it comes to accessibility, etc. -1 -1 what? For many business purposes, GNOME still has friendlier licensing than KDE or components KDE relies on as well. Care to back this up with specific references? It's quite simple. GNOME is primarily LGPL. KDE relies on many GPL components, especially its core window toolkit. Sun came to the same conclusion when they chose GNOME, so I'm told. Sun spent millions on GNOME in years past before xfce was really known at all, so it makes sense for them to stick with their investment. No it doesn't. When you've made a mistake, smart leaders correct rather than pouring good money after bad. I haven't seen anything to prove it was a mistake yet. Quite the opposite. -- Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ To err is human -- and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:07:31 -0700 Glenn Lagasse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Ken Gunderson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:00:32 -0700 Glenn Lagasse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Ken, * Ken Gunderson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:15:33 -0600 Jim Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Brian, Was there a flag day for this? If not, I would think about making one. Finding the bugs is a good thing, but impacting users that don't have time to be beta testers at the moment isn't. +1. Makes OS utterly unusable for me in any Sun packaged form, including SXDE, wh/I was told was supposedly more well tested version that would be more stable/suitable for workstation use. So, just to clarify some things. 1) this is not a problem in SXDE (I believe, since the last SXDE was from january). This is seen in the SXCE releases starting with 84 (I believe). 2) SXCE is an 'under development' release (which SXDE is based off of once we stabilize it). There are going to be bumps along the way. That said, lots of developers inside Sun (certainly in the Solaris org) run these builds to get real work done (which is how we find some of these more interesting problems). To clarify - I'm seeing Gnome crashes, Evolution in particular, on both latest SXDE and SXCE, builds 79 and 84, respectively. And on previous SXDE as well. Some might say just use Thunderbird but then I might as well use winblows For what it's worth, hardware in this instance is Tyan K8E and Opteron 180, wh/I believe is essentially same board Sun based for their X2100 on. Ok, but that's different from what's being talked about in this thread. FWIW, I use Gnome in Indiana DP2 every day (and have been since DP2 released) and haven't had a Gnome crash yet. This thread has discussed a few different things - I must be confused but I thought current context was Gnome dumping core, at least in some cases due to ASSERT being enabled for debugging purposes. I'm just reporting that I have Gnome dumping core on _both_ 79 and 84 builds, particularly when running Evolution, frequently enough so as to make either of them unusable for daily operations. I further reported that this is occurring on amd64 bit hardware because in my experience w/other OS's bugs pop up in 64 bit mode that seem to slip past 32 bit mode. What would be really appreciated is if Sun/OS would invest some energies in porting Xfce - lightweight, fast, and sports a nice window manager that actually does useful things like shade on mouse title bar scroll, right click anywhere for full menu, page desktops on mouse scroll, etc. It's gtk based and attracts a lot of Gnome refugees to it's ranks, so should not be too hard to port, eh? Feel free to step right up and take that on :-) Would love to but I am not a developer and too old to change horses at this stage in life. Hence my first sentence in the paragraph above. If you've not ever looked at Xfce, or looked at it lately, perhaps you might want to take a gander. I have several unix grey beard type buddies who've ditched Gnome for Xfce after taking it for a test drive and in recent years Xfce is attracting an increasingly large cadre of Gnome Refugees. There must be a reason. -- Best regards, Ken Gunderson Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is putting a reply at the top of the message frowned upon? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] In Unix
Hi, Good Morning..!!! how will get the below lines, from Strat to End in between lines, i want to write in seprate file. #Start of lines added by SUNWscu 20 4 * * 0 /usr/cluster/lib/sc/newcleventlog /var/cluster/logs/eventlog 20 4 * * 0 /usr/cluster/lib/sc/newcleventlog /var/cluster/logs/DS # End of lines added by SUNWscu how can do this in using grep -A 2 filename or awk give me the solution bye, Raja cat filename | grep -v ^# or grep -v ^# filename This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] In Unix
Mike, cat filename | grep -v ^# or grep -v ^# filename Careful! The first example put you at risk of retribution from the UUoC (Useless Use of Cat) brigade... Fortunately you redeemed yourself just in time ;-) Regards... Sean. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
* Ken Gunderson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Ok, but that's different from what's being talked about in this thread. FWIW, I use Gnome in Indiana DP2 every day (and have been since DP2 released) and haven't had a Gnome crash yet. This thread has discussed a few different things - I must be confused but I thought current context was Gnome dumping core, at least in some cases due to ASSERT being enabled for debugging purposes. I'm just reporting that I have Gnome dumping core on _both_ 79 and 84 builds, particularly when running Evolution, frequently enough so as to make either of them unusable for daily operations. Fair enough, you're having issues. I and others I know aren't. I'm not a Gnome developer so I wouldn't even know where to begin to help track down Gnome issues. But, you might try running gnome-cleanup (which removes a bunch of gnome settings in your home dir). I've seen this solve some peoples crash problems. Of course, you'll want to back up your homedir first (or at least the files/dirs that get nuked in the gnome-cleanup script). I further reported that this is occurring on amd64 bit hardware because in my experience w/other OS's bugs pop up in 64 bit mode that seem to slip past 32 bit mode. I'm running on 64-bit Intel hardware (Lenovo T61p to be precise). What would be really appreciated is if Sun/OS would invest some energies in porting Xfce - lightweight, fast, and sports a nice window manager that actually does useful things like shade on mouse title bar scroll, right click anywhere for full menu, page desktops on mouse scroll, etc. It's gtk based and attracts a lot of Gnome refugees to it's ranks, so should not be too hard to port, eh? Feel free to step right up and take that on :-) Would love to but I am not a developer and too old to change horses at this stage in life. Hence my first sentence in the paragraph above. If you've not ever looked at Xfce, or looked at it lately, perhaps you might want to take a gander. I have several unix grey beard type buddies who've ditched Gnome for Xfce after taking it for a test drive and in recent years Xfce is attracting an increasingly large cadre of Gnome Refugees. There must be a reason. I'm very familiar with it. It's *nice*, but I don't have a reason to leave Gnome at this point (and if I did, it'd probably be to something like OpenBox/FluxBox). As for a reason that Xfce is attracting Gnome Refugees, I'm sure there is one. However, I'd love to see a real investigation into why (if in fact that is the case) rather than postulate that there must be a reason before drawing any conclusions. :-) Cheers, -- Glenn ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:10:24 -0500 Shawn Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:46:38 -0500 Shawn Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:02 AM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've used both Gnome and KDE off and on since 0.x days but ditched both in favor of Xfce in more recent years. In my opinion Sun (along with other US corps) bet on the wrong horse with Gnome. I'm looking forward to the ongoing KDE4 work (although KDE has become a bit too glitzy for me) but that's going to be a while yet. What would be really appreciated is if Sun/OS would invest some energies in porting Xfce - lightweight, fast, and sports a nice window manager that actually does useful things like shade on mouse title bar scroll, right click anywhere for full menu, page desktops on mouse scroll, etc. It's gtk based and attracts a lot of Gnome refugees to it's ranks, so should not be too hard to port, eh? xfce has a long way to go before getting to Section 508 compliance, etc. Not sure about this one, but who cares? Why should majority suffer additional bloat and bugs for a small minority so long as _other_ options exist that _do_ accommodate that minority? Sun as a public company is *required* by law to seek Section 508 compliance. People who don't have friends or family members, or who themselves are not physically disadvantaged in some way, often don't understand the need for Section 508 compliance. These folks are disadvantaged, through no fault of their own usually, and deserve the same opportunities we have to use software and live life. Right. But enabling such features should be an option, not default requirement. It also is relatively immature compared to KDE or GNOME for now. -1 -1 means nothing in this context. GNOME has a hig, has had numerous accessibility and other studies performed, and especially on Solaris, is far better supported. It's a no brainer that obviously would be better supported since Sun has made an investment in that direction. Regarding HIG, there are many who feel that Havoc is misguided, Linus Torvalds being one of the more prominent ones. I being one of the less. Xfce subscribes to HIG. One of it's downsides, imho. Not to be outdone, KDE is working on crippling some stuff as well as of late. GNOME is far more mature as a platform than KDE or XFCE, right now, when it comes to accessibility, etc. -1 -1 what? For many business purposes, GNOME still has friendlier licensing than KDE or components KDE relies on as well. Well now you're citing licensing issue to support claim that Gnome is more mature and accessible. Moreover, seeing how KDE has been in existence longer than Gnome, how can you assert it's less mature. Same for Xfce if you take into account that it's based/ported from CDE. Care to back this up with specific references? It's quite simple. GNOME is primarily LGPL. KDE relies on many GPL components, especially its core window toolkit. Sun came to the same conclusion when they chose GNOME, so I'm told. And I've had it whispered in my ear that a lot of the decision by various US corps to back Gnome was based more on nationalism concerns than technical merit. Sun spent millions on GNOME in years past before xfce was really known at all, so it makes sense for them to stick with their investment. No it doesn't. When you've made a mistake, smart leaders correct rather than pouring good money after bad. I haven't seen anything to prove it was a mistake yet. Quite the opposite. Then why, despite all this backing by various US corp entities, does Gnome still take back seat to KDE by something like 3:1 ratio in terms of user base? I'll venture a hypothesis: any *nix based DE is not going to be able to seriously compete w/MS for corp workstation in the foreseeable future. Hence the lack of uptake in this market despite the various periodic marketing pushes from Novell, IBM, etc. So who's left as user base? People smart enough to not want a crippled DE that's designed to be usable by lowest common demominator (e.g. does the print dialog still omit duplex option in name of usability?), and this sector seems to exhibit strong preference for KDE. Thankfully there are some within Sun who see this issue differently than you and are actively working on porting of KDE;) -- Best regards, Ken Gunderson Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is putting a reply at the top of the message frowned upon? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Pointless KDE vs. GNOME discussion was Re: [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:10:24 -0500 Shawn Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:46:38 -0500 Shawn Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:02 AM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've used both Gnome and KDE off and on since 0.x days but ditched both in favor of Xfce in more recent years. In my opinion Sun (along with other US corps) bet on the wrong horse with Gnome. I'm looking forward to the ongoing KDE4 work (although KDE has become a bit too glitzy for me) but that's going to be a while yet. What would be really appreciated is if Sun/OS would invest some energies in porting Xfce - lightweight, fast, and sports a nice window manager that actually does useful things like shade on mouse title bar scroll, right click anywhere for full menu, page desktops on mouse scroll, etc. It's gtk based and attracts a lot of Gnome refugees to it's ranks, so should not be too hard to port, eh? xfce has a long way to go before getting to Section 508 compliance, etc. Not sure about this one, but who cares? Why should majority suffer additional bloat and bugs for a small minority so long as _other_ options exist that _do_ accommodate that minority? Sun as a public company is *required* by law to seek Section 508 compliance. People who don't have friends or family members, or who themselves are not physically disadvantaged in some way, often don't understand the need for Section 508 compliance. These folks are disadvantaged, through no fault of their own usually, and deserve the same opportunities we have to use software and live life. Right. But enabling such features should be an option, not default requirement. The law makes it a requirement. GNOME is far more mature as a platform than KDE or XFCE, right now, when it comes to accessibility, etc. -1 -1 what? For many business purposes, GNOME still has friendlier licensing than KDE or components KDE relies on as well. Well now you're citing licensing issue to support claim that Gnome is more mature and accessible. Moreover, seeing how KDE has been in No, I am not. I never stated that. existence longer than Gnome, how can you assert it's less mature. Same for Xfce if you take into account that it's based/ported from CDE. More mature because GNOME has had more structured, corporate involvement and more usability studies done than KDE. Care to back this up with specific references? It's quite simple. GNOME is primarily LGPL. KDE relies on many GPL components, especially its core window toolkit. Sun came to the same conclusion when they chose GNOME, so I'm told. And I've had it whispered in my ear that a lot of the decision by various US corps to back Gnome was based more on nationalism concerns than technical merit. The difference is that a Sun person is the one that stated that. It wasn't rumours or whispered in my ear. Sun spent millions on GNOME in years past before xfce was really known at all, so it makes sense for them to stick with their investment. No it doesn't. When you've made a mistake, smart leaders correct rather than pouring good money after bad. I haven't seen anything to prove it was a mistake yet. Quite the opposite. Then why, despite all this backing by various US corp entities, does Gnome still take back seat to KDE by something like 3:1 ratio in terms Where are you getting those statistics from? It doesn't make much sense given that: * RedHat uses GNOME by default and is the most well GNU/Linux distribution * Novell used GNOME by default in their enterprise distribution * Novell purchased Ximian years ago, which is a GNOME company * Sun chose GNOME years ago ..etc. I suppose it depends on whether you are looking at the US or European markets. of user base? I'll venture a hypothesis: any *nix based DE is not going to be able to seriously compete w/MS for corp workstation in the foreseeable future. Hence the lack of uptake in this market despite That I can agree with. the various periodic marketing pushes from Novell, IBM, etc. So who's left as user base? People smart enough to not want a crippled DE that's designed to be usable by lowest common demominator (e.g. does the print dialog still omit duplex option in name of usability?), and this sector seems to exhibit strong preference for KDE. Crippled is a matter of perspective. I consider almost all of the current *NIX desktops to be crippled in one way or another. As for the rest; that's just opinion -- so no facts or figures are going to make any
Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:52:18 -0700 Glenn Lagasse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Ken Gunderson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Ok, but that's different from what's being talked about in this thread. FWIW, I use Gnome in Indiana DP2 every day (and have been since DP2 released) and haven't had a Gnome crash yet. This thread has discussed a few different things - I must be confused but I thought current context was Gnome dumping core, at least in some cases due to ASSERT being enabled for debugging purposes. I'm just reporting that I have Gnome dumping core on _both_ 79 and 84 builds, particularly when running Evolution, frequently enough so as to make either of them unusable for daily operations. Fair enough, you're having issues. I and others I know aren't. I'm not a Gnome developer so I wouldn't even know where to begin to help track down Gnome issues. But, you might try running gnome-cleanup (which removes a bunch of gnome settings in your home dir). I've seen this solve some peoples crash problems. Of course, you'll want to back up your homedir first (or at least the files/dirs that get nuked in the gnome-cleanup script). This is with fresh, default installs. Others are having issues. I was just adding my $0.02 in hopes might be helpful for those others. [snip] Would love to but I am not a developer and too old to change horses at this stage in life. Hence my first sentence in the paragraph above. If you've not ever looked at Xfce, or looked at it lately, perhaps you might want to take a gander. I have several unix grey beard type buddies who've ditched Gnome for Xfce after taking it for a test drive and in recent years Xfce is attracting an increasingly large cadre of Gnome Refugees. There must be a reason. I'm very familiar with it. It's *nice*, but I don't have a reason to leave Gnome at this point (and if I did, it'd probably be to something like OpenBox/FluxBox). OpenBox Rocks! Hint, hint Blastwave ;) As for a reason that Xfce is attracting Gnome Refugees, I'm sure there is one. However, I'd love to see a real investigation into why (if in fact that is the case) rather than postulate that there must be a reason before drawing any conclusions. :-) Well, it's a simple task to subscribe to Xfce list and ask how many _used_ to use Gnome I'm not advocating Sun ditch Gnome. Only that other options also be explored. Work is in process with KDE porting. Xfce is gtk based so seems like Sun could leverage a lot of what they've already done with Gnome and Xfce may offer some low hanging fruit compared to effort required for KDE. Choice is a good thing, and I would think, make Sun packages OS offerings attractive to more users. For example, I've pointed a few folks to OS, but when they see Gnome as only option, w/o having to go to 3rd party repos and extra hassle, that's about the end of that (other than giving me a good natured hard time for suggesting something so lame). SXDE/CE are batting 0 for 7 on this one. These are all pretty seasoned and capable Unix folks but they don't have interest in spending their time battling the desktop. Glad it's working for you but all of these folks complained of buggy Gnome. fwiw- I'm the only one still mucking about with it:) -- Best regards, Ken Gunderson Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is putting a reply at the top of the message frowned upon? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
* Ken Gunderson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:52:18 -0700 Glenn Lagasse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Ken Gunderson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Ok, but that's different from what's being talked about in this thread. FWIW, I use Gnome in Indiana DP2 every day (and have been since DP2 released) and haven't had a Gnome crash yet. This thread has discussed a few different things - I must be confused but I thought current context was Gnome dumping core, at least in some cases due to ASSERT being enabled for debugging purposes. I'm just reporting that I have Gnome dumping core on _both_ 79 and 84 builds, particularly when running Evolution, frequently enough so as to make either of them unusable for daily operations. Fair enough, you're having issues. I and others I know aren't. I'm not a Gnome developer so I wouldn't even know where to begin to help track down Gnome issues. But, you might try running gnome-cleanup (which removes a bunch of gnome settings in your home dir). I've seen this solve some peoples crash problems. Of course, you'll want to back up your homedir first (or at least the files/dirs that get nuked in the gnome-cleanup script). This is with fresh, default installs. Others are having issues. I was just adding my $0.02 in hopes might be helpful for those others. As with all things software, I'm quite certain you are not alone in having problems with Gnome :-) [snip] Would love to but I am not a developer and too old to change horses at this stage in life. Hence my first sentence in the paragraph above. If you've not ever looked at Xfce, or looked at it lately, perhaps you might want to take a gander. I have several unix grey beard type buddies who've ditched Gnome for Xfce after taking it for a test drive and in recent years Xfce is attracting an increasingly large cadre of Gnome Refugees. There must be a reason. I'm very familiar with it. It's *nice*, but I don't have a reason to leave Gnome at this point (and if I did, it'd probably be to something like OpenBox/FluxBox). OpenBox Rocks! Hint, hint Blastwave ;) As for a reason that Xfce is attracting Gnome Refugees, I'm sure there is one. However, I'd love to see a real investigation into why (if in fact that is the case) rather than postulate that there must be a reason before drawing any conclusions. :-) Well, it's a simple task to subscribe to Xfce list and ask how many _used_ to use Gnome I'm not advocating Sun ditch Gnome. Only that other options also be explored. Work is in process with KDE porting. Xfce is gtk based so seems like Sun could leverage a lot of what they've already done with Gnome and Xfce may offer some low hanging fruit compared to effort required for KDE. Understood (all along in fact). All I'm saying is that the community shouldn't wait for Sun to do everything they'd like to see done. Because they'll likely be pretty disappointed. :-) Choice is a good thing, and I would think, make Sun packages OS offerings attractive to more users. For example, I've pointed a few folks to OS, but when they see Gnome as only option, w/o having to go to 3rd party repos and extra hassle, that's about the end of that (other than giving me a good natured hard time for suggesting something so lame). SXDE/CE are batting 0 for 7 on this one. These are all pretty seasoned and capable Unix folks but they don't have interest in spending their time battling the desktop. Glad it's working for you but all of these folks complained of buggy Gnome. fwiw- I'm the only one still mucking about with it:) I couldn't agree more with you about choice being a good thing. I'd *love* to see Xfce available for OpenSolaris as an option in the reposs. Heck, I'd love to see the entire Debian repository (the largest software repository that I'm aware of, at last check they had some 10's of thousands of packages iirc though I could be misremembering) available for OpenSolaris. But, Sun isn't likely going to be the entity that causes that to happen in it's entirety. And that's all I'm trying to point out. As for Gnome being a non-starter for some people, oh well. You can't please everyone. At some point, I expect we'll have alternatives (KDE porting work as a simple example) and then maybe we'll appeal to more people (or maybe we won't). I will say, that there's quite a bit in Blastwave (that runs on Indiana and SXCE/SXDE) in terms of alternate window managers/DE's (xfce 4.2.3.2 in fact). Perhaps pointing that out to people might help. Cheers, -- Glenn ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] In Unix
Come on folks!
The first answer should be What has this got to do with OpenSolaris?
But you are presuming that the file has only the 4 lines in it. What happens if
the crontab is much longer
# more data here
0 0 * * * /usr/bin/true
#Start of lines added by SUNWscu
20 4 * * 0 /usr/cluster/lib/sc/newcleventlog /var/cluster/logs/eventlog
20 4 * * 0 /usr/cluster/lib/sc/newcleventlog /var/cluster/logs/DS
# End of lines added by SUNWscu
try:
% awk ' { if ( $0 ~ /^#Start of lines added by SUNWscu/ ) { START=1 } else if (
$0 ~ /^# End of lines added by SUNWscu/ ) { START=0 } else if ( START==1 ) {
print $0 } } ' filename
Andrew
This message posted from opensolaris.org
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Re: [osol-discuss] Pointless KDE vs. GNOME discussion was Re: [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
Steven Stallion wrote: INOW, if you are not working for, or supplying software to the government, then you are more than free to completely ignore Section 508 and any other accessibility/usability enhancements as you please. Ignore Section 508 yes, but US companies also have to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act for their workers and customers. Of course, none of these say we can't add KDE, Xfce, Enlightenment, or any other desktop, as long as we have at least one fully compliant desktop that provides all the functionality needed. After all, we still have non-compliant CDE, and just added compiz... -- -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Pointless KDE vs. GNOME discussion was Re: [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:32:18 -0500 Shawn Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:10:24 -0500 Shawn Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:46:38 -0500 Shawn Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:02 AM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've used both Gnome and KDE off and on since 0.x days but ditched both [snip] Right. But enabling such features should be an option, not default requirement. The law makes it a requirement. No it doesn't. It needs to be available as an option for those who require such in certain environments, but not all. [snip] And I've had it whispered in my ear that a lot of the decision by various US corps to back Gnome was based more on nationalism concerns than technical merit. The difference is that a Sun person is the one that stated that. It wasn't rumours or whispered in my ear. Call it what you like. Doesn't change reality... Sun spent millions on GNOME in years past before xfce was really known at all, so it makes sense for them to stick with their investment. No it doesn't. When you've made a mistake, smart leaders correct rather than pouring good money after bad. I haven't seen anything to prove it was a mistake yet. Can you cite instance where has Gnome replaced MS in corp/govt.? I can cite cases where KDE has. Seems to indicate to me that betting the farm on Gnome _might_ have been a mistake... Quite the opposite. Then why, despite all this backing by various US corp entities, does Gnome still take back seat to KDE by something like 3:1 ratio in terms Where are you getting those statistics from? Google is your friend. You're an analyst. Don't make me do your legwork. It doesn't make much sense given that: * RedHat uses GNOME by default and is the most well GNU/Linux distribution RedHat is a lame distro whose only feature is a psuedo offerings of indemnification and support that fail to actually pan out in the real world. Nobody I know uses it in production environment unless forced to do so by phb's lacking in technical competence, i.e. decisions based on politics rather that technical merit. * Novell used GNOME by default in their enterprise distribution * Novell purchased Ximian years ago, which is a GNOME company * Sun chose GNOME years ago ..etc. Debain, (K)Ubuntu, and Slackware of the most popular. But why are we talking about Linux? I suppose it depends on whether you are looking at the US or European markets. Somewhat. KDE is defacto standard with most Euro govt. agencies I'm aware of that are on Linux platform. of user base? I'll venture a hypothesis: any *nix based DE is not going to be able to seriously compete w/MS for corp workstation in the foreseeable future. Hence the lack of uptake in this market despite That I can agree with. the various periodic marketing pushes from Novell, IBM, etc. So who's left as user base? People smart enough to not want a crippled DE that's designed to be usable by lowest common demominator (e.g. does the print dialog still omit duplex option in name of usability?), and this sector seems to exhibit strong preference for KDE. Crippled is a matter of perspective. I consider almost all of the current *NIX desktops to be crippled in one way or another. As for the rest; that's just opinion -- so no facts or figures are going to make any difference there. Thankfully there are some within Sun who see this issue differently than you and are actively working on porting of KDE;) *shrug* I don't really care. I spend most of my time in a terminal window or a browser. So do I. Plus email. It's pretty tough to get any work done when your DE/MUA is crashing daily. Which desktop I'm using makes little difference in the end. I don't appreciate that you've inappropriately and erroneously changed the subject heading in what appears to be an effort at belittling my input by relegating to status of a religious war. Especially since I am specifically not advocating for KDE. Yes, I applaud that others w/in Sun have so users will have another viable option when presented with what in my experience has been a terminally broken Gnome. In this context I have pointed to some things I do not like about Gnome related to lack of stability, sluggish performance, and purposeful crippling of capabilities that were formerly present under the guise of usability. And also I would welcome a modern Xfce-4.4.x, as Blastwave's repo is still on 4.2, and quite out of date. -- Best regards, Ken Gunderson Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is putting a reply at the top of the message frowned upon?
Re: [osol-discuss] Pointless KDE vs. GNOME discussion was Re: [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
A minor nit: Section 508 applies to software which Federal agencies develop, procure, maintain, or use electronic and information technology. Sun (or any other publicly traded company) is not required by law to conform to Section 508 unless they desire to provide their software/services to the U.S. government. INOW, if you are not working for, or supplying software to the government, then you are more than free to completely ignore Section 508 and any other accessibility/usability enhancements as you please. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_508 Flame on. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [sysadmin-discuss] Configuring two nsswitch backends like LDAP and NIS?
Having two major naming services in the same configuration has never been a Sun supported configuration. Primarily because the naming service administration tools do not deal with this. One of the objectives of the duckwater project is to fix the naming configuration and management issue, which will help here. The second reason that it's not been supported, is because prior to the delivery of sparks, we did not have a test suite could test combinations of backends, and there were bugs that did not make it always work. Part of the delivery of sparks (snv_50) was to deliver a test suite that tested combinations, and sparks also fixed some internal problems that existed prior in certain combinations. Once duckwater delivers, we may re-assess our position on supporting this type of configuration. I doubt we will ever recommend such a configuration, because there are plenty of reasons not to do this, including security and account authority issues. Tpday, we still don't regularly test nis nisplus together, although we do know it's technically possible now that the code is fixed. Doug. Edwin Goei wrote: Is it possible to use two networked databases at the same time in nsswitch.conf? I've got a client machine using an existing NIS database in nsswitch. I'd like to add additional entries to the passwd database so that I can provide sshd access to a mercurial repository for a large number of accounts. These entries would be provided by an ldap server on a different host. Essentially, I would like to modify my existing NIS-based nsswitch with passwd: files nis ldap. I was able to get ldap to work via ldapclient but when I turn on the NIS client back on, I get this error in the log: [ Mar 19 07:44:22 Enabled. ] [ Mar 19 07:44:22 Executing start method (/lib/svc/method/yp). ] /lib/svc/method/yp: /var/yp/binding/tools.sfbay.sun.com is not a directory [ Mar 19 07:44:22 Method start exited with status 96. ] Any ideas? It doesn't seem to be possible to use two LDAP backends, but it may be possible to have an LDAP server both provide LDAP and NIS entries. Has anyone gotten something like this to work? -Edwin ___ sysadmin-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/sysadmin-discuss ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] ZFSACL issue - Holding up deployment!
Gl1ch would you mind sharing more info on what your doing esp the part about linking the zfs module to samba 3.0.28 possibly posting your smb.conf? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] ZFSACL issue - Holding up deployment!
Well, I was going to compile samba and install a compiled version because of all the zfsacl issues I was having. Unfortunately I was running out of time and just disabled zfsacl altogether in order to keep going. Samba seems to be doing find using fileio although these ACL's are really messy/confusing. I must say I appreciate the extra functionality but I miss the old ACL's. One example that came up today making departmental shares. Lets say I have a share point that is the root folder all samba users mount called Corporate under that folder I have departmental folders Department1, Department2, etc. Well I normally setup the Corporate folder allowing Domain Users the ability to see all of the Departmental folders but when they access the Departmental folder they are either permitted or denied based on their departmental group membership. Pretty straightforward on POSIX ACL: chmod 770 Corporate - Domain Users rx Department1 - department1-group - rwx (Plus a default acl entry for inheritance). Now with NFS4: chmod 770 Corporate - Domain Users rxcaRs:fdn:allow Department1 - Domain Users rx:deny - Department1-group wpdDxraRAwW:fd:allow - @owner, @group - Not sure if I am correct on this but I set these groups as wpdDxraRAwW:fd:allow so when people create files they maintain access to them. This is confusing because I had to first setup inheritance on the root directory in order for the subdirectories to be seen and then explicitly deny list on the sub directories. Sure I will post something as soon as I have a minute. I am actually putting together a guide for Samba/AD/ZFS configurations on Solaris which contains a generic version of my entire config. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
Ken Gunderson wrote: This thread has discussed a few different things - I must be confused but I thought current context was Gnome dumping core, at least in some cases due to ASSERT being enabled for debugging purposes. I'm just reporting that I have Gnome dumping core on _both_ 79 and 84 builds, particularly when running Evolution, frequently enough so as to make either of them unusable for daily operations. I further reported that this is occurring on amd64 bit hardware because in my experience w/other OS's bugs pop up in 64 bit mode that seem to slip past 32 bit mode. Submit a bug report with the stack trace (preferably in bugzilla.gnome.org) - I'm sure the developers would be pleased to hear from you. Glynn ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
Ken Gunderson wrote: I'm very familiar with it. It's *nice*, but I don't have a reason to leave Gnome at this point (and if I did, it'd probably be to something like OpenBox/FluxBox). OpenBox Rocks! Hint, hint Blastwave ;) Hint, hint *patch*. Glynn ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Pointless KDE vs. GNOME discussion was Re: [desktop-discuss] How to get an old build?
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:32:18 -0500 Shawn Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:10:24 -0500 Shawn Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:46:38 -0500 Shawn Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:02 AM, Ken Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've used both Gnome and KDE off and on since 0.x days but ditched both [snip] Right. But enabling such features should be an option, not default requirement. The law makes it a requirement. No it doesn't. It needs to be available as an option for those who require such in certain environments, but not all. It does if you want to sell to government entities, etc. which Sun obviously does and wants to. That's my point. And I've had it whispered in my ear that a lot of the decision by various US corps to back Gnome was based more on nationalism concerns than technical merit. The difference is that a Sun person is the one that stated that. It wasn't rumours or whispered in my ear. Call it what you like. Doesn't change reality... Indeed, it does not. Which reality it doesn't change is up for debate though :-) Sun spent millions on GNOME in years past before xfce was really known at all, so it makes sense for them to stick with their investment. No it doesn't. When you've made a mistake, smart leaders correct rather than pouring good money after bad. I haven't seen anything to prove it was a mistake yet. Can you cite instance where has Gnome replaced MS in corp/govt.? I can cite cases where KDE has. Seems to indicate to me that betting the farm on Gnome _might_ have been a mistake... Sure. Go look on Novell's website :-) Quite the opposite. Then why, despite all this backing by various US corp entities, does Gnome still take back seat to KDE by something like 3:1 ratio in terms Where are you getting those statistics from? Google is your friend. You're an analyst. Don't make me do your legwork. They're your stats, not mine :-) It doesn't make much sense given that: * RedHat uses GNOME by default and is the most well GNU/Linux distribution RedHat is a lame distro whose only feature is a psuedo offerings of indemnification and support that fail to actually pan out in the real world. Nobody I know uses it in production environment unless forced to do so by phb's lacking in technical competence, i.e. decisions based on politics rather that technical merit. A lame distro that makes millions for RedHat every year in subscriptions :-) * Novell used GNOME by default in their enterprise distribution * Novell purchased Ximian years ago, which is a GNOME company * Sun chose GNOME years ago ..etc. Debain, (K)Ubuntu, and Slackware of the most popular. But why are we talking about Linux? Because you don't hear about mass desktop deployments of *NIX-like platforms with anything else? Which desktop I'm using makes little difference in the end. I don't appreciate that you've inappropriately and erroneously changed the subject heading in what appears to be an effort at belittling my input by relegating to status of a religious war. Especially since I I'm the one responding, aren't I? :) The point is, that in the end, everyone has their particular view of a project. Most of us are never going to change our view of KDE, GNOME, etc. We encountered them and stuck with it for whatever reason. I doubt I will ever change my view of KDE's licensing or library choices, and I doubt you will ever change your view of GNOME or XFCE. So, there's little point to the discussion, hence the subject :-) Gnome. In this context I have pointed to some things I do not like about Gnome related to lack of stability, sluggish performance, and purposeful crippling of capabilities that were formerly present under the guise of usability. And also I would welcome a modern Xfce-4.4.x, as Blastwave's repo is still on 4.2, and quite out of date. File bugs. However, I can just about guarantee that Xfce someday will be accused of being bloated too, (actually I've already seen that from those that used it from early, early versions). One man's bloat, is another man's must have feature. Cheers, -- Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ To err is human -- and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] In Unix
Hello Andrew, Its not working, pls make me clear in this...!! -Raja This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
