Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Peter Nikolic]

On Monday 25 December 2006 03:46, J Sloan wrote:
> Randall R Schulz wrote:
> > Can you define what you mean when you say:
> >
> > - "enough of a critical mass"
> > - "to matter"
> > - "leverage control"
> > - "onramps to the information highway"
> > - "game over"
> > - "meaningful access"
> > - "most internet content"
> > - "islands"
> > - "hopeless, irrelevant rebellion"
> > - "microsoft world"
>
> Sorry, but if you're going to play dumb, it would be far too tedious and
> time consuming to try and bring you up to speed. Suffice it to say there is
> apparently a huge gap between our positions. Go back to sleep...
>
>
> Joe


Ohh  touchy are we ... ?.  

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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.2 Laptop runs hot after resume

[Andre Truter]

On 12/25/06, John Andersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


>
> I checked it again and the processor stuff is the same, but I did
> notice that the fan stuff differ.
> /proc/acpi/fan/C260/state   differ.
>
> Before a Hibernate, it says : status : on
> After the Hibernate, it says:  status: off

Very dangerous.


The system fan stil comes on at 80 deg and goes off at 75 deg again,
so the system does not overheat.  It just runs hot and every now and
again, the fan comes on.



You should did thru the hibernate settings to see if
you can find something relating to these.



I am systematically going through the settings and trying different
things, but so far nothing.


In the mean time, you can create a script
which you can run as root, or periodically via cron:

   echo on >/proc/acpi/fan/C260/state


Nope, this has no effect.

I did notice that when the machine resumes or when powersaved is
restarted, then this message is logged:

Dec 25 10:01:51 fullyautomatix powersaved[5928]: WARNING
(continueEvent:287) Could not execute program
/usr/lib/powersave/scripts for event daemon.scheme.change: No such
file or directory


I also noted that I get the following messages during hibernation and
during restore:


Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: mmc0: Card is consuming too much power!
Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: mmc0: Unexpected interrupt
0x0080. Please report this to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: sdhci: == REGISTER
DUMP ==
Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: sdhci: Sys addr: 0x |
Version:  0x
Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: sdhci: Blk size: 0x |
Blk cnt:  0x
Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: sdhci: Argument: 0x |
Trn mode: 0x
Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: sdhci: Present:  0x |
Host ctl: 0x00ff
Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: sdhci: Power:0x00ff |
Blk gap:  0x00ff
Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: sdhci: Wake-up:  0x00ff |
Clock:0x
Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: sdhci: Timeout:  0x00ff |
Int stat: 0x
Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: sdhci: Int enab: 0x |
Sig enab: 0x
Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: sdhci: AC12 err: 0x |
Slot int: 0x
Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: sdhci: Caps: 0x |
Max curr: 0x
Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: sdhci:
===


Maybe this has something to do with it?

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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Marcus Meissner]

On Sun, Dec 24, 2006 at 08:25:59PM -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> Linux on the desktop has been a year or two away for over a decade now, 
> and there are reasons it's not there yet. To attract nontechnical 
> end-users, a Linux desktop must work out of the box, ideally 
> preinstalled by the hardware vendor. Right now, Linux is usually an 
> aftermarket upgrade on desktop and laptop systems. Default installations 
> of Linux usually have poor multimedia support, are missing numerous 
> codecs like QuickTime and WMV, and often lack even basic 3D 
> acceleration. Linux can't even play DVDs without introducing the risk of 
> lawsuits, and multimedia support files are usually hosted on non-US 
> sites for legal reasons. Third party software support (from Quicken to 
> World of Warcraft) is almost nonexistent.
> 
> You can't win the desktop if you don't even try. Right now, few in the 
> Linux world are seriously trying. And time is running out.
> 
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/world-domination-201.html#id247970

But this is not a Linux problem, it is more a problem of the current
state in the software industry where everything multimedia interesting
requires per-copy royalties, NDAs, closed source and so on.

Ciao, Marcus
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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[John Andersen]

On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:48, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:46, J Sloan wrote:
> > Randall R Schulz wrote:
> > > Can you define what you mean when you say:
> > >
> > > - "enough of a critical mass"
> > > - "to matter"
> > > - "leverage control"
> > > - "onramps to the information highway"
> > > - "game over"
> > > - "meaningful access"
> > > - "most internet content"
> > > - "islands"
> > > - "hopeless, irrelevant rebellion"
> > > - "microsoft world"
> >
> > Sorry, but if you're going to play dumb, it would be far too tedious
> > and time consuming to try and bring you up to speed. Suffice it to
> > say there is apparently a huge gap between our positions. Go back to
> > sleep...
>
> Then I take it you cannot neither explicate nor defend your position,
> whatever it may be, using concrete, unambiguous and non-metaphorical
> language.
>
>
> I accept your concession.

Why must you be so rude!

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[John Andersen]

On Sunday 24 December 2006 21:14, John E. Perry wrote:
> Just two problems:  first, I took others' advice again to switch from
> Reiser to ext3fs,

Precisely who gave you that bum advice?
There is no reason what so ever to switch filesystems on
an existing partition which you had no desire to reformat anyway.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[Carlos E. R.]

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The Monday 2006-12-25 at 01:14 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

> Just two problems:  first, I took others' advice again to switch from
> Reiser to ext3fs, 

You choose that advice instead of the advice to the contrary.

> I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in
> Reiser don't come to my system.

What bugs?

- -- 
Cheers,
   Carlos E. R.
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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.2 Laptop runs hot after resume

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


The Monday 2006-12-25 at 12:05 +0200, Andre Truter wrote:


> The system fan stil comes on at 80 deg and goes off at 75 deg again,
> so the system does not overheat.  It just runs hot and every now and
> again, the fan comes on.

Then it could be a changed setting in fan triggering, or that it is a 
different "thing" which is triggering the fan.


> I did notice that when the machine resumes or when powersaved is
> restarted, then this message is logged:
> 
> Dec 25 10:01:51 fullyautomatix powersaved[5928]: WARNING
> (continueEvent:287) Could not execute program
> /usr/lib/powersave/scripts for event daemon.scheme.change: No such
> file or directory
> 

I guess that could be classified as a bug. Some script is missing or a 
misspelled one is called. Bugzilla?

Perhaps when the scheme changes temperature settings are changed, and 
other things. But a part of it is missing.

I'm just guessing, of course.


> I also noted that I get the following messages during hibernation and
> during restore:
> 
> 
> Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: mmc0: Card is consuming too much power!
> Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: mmc0: Unexpected interrupt

If that is true and a card is consuming too much, it also increase the 
temperature, but would it affect the cpu? Or is it just a temporary 
situation while restoring, then the kernel gets control of things? Unless 
a kernel developper has a look at it :-?

> 0x0080. Please report this to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.

You could try that, or report it to bugzilla, so that Novell people do.

> Dec 25 09:47:28 fullyautomatix kernel: sdhci:
> ===
> 
> 
> Maybe this has something to do with it?

Who knows?

- -- 
Cheers,
   Carlos E. R.

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[opensuse] Ekiga on 10.2 hangs after connect

[asp]

Hi!

 I had Ekiga working fine on 10.1, but on 10.2 is launches and then hangs 
after connect  H323, with "Jitter buffer thread did not terminate"

Thank you.
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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[Anders Norrbring]

Carlos E. R. wrote:


The Monday 2006-12-25 at 01:14 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:


Just two problems:  first, I took others' advice again to switch from
Reiser to ext3fs, 


You choose that advice instead of the advice to the contrary.


I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in
Reiser don't come to my system.


What bugs?



My highly unqualified guess would be the bugs in reiser4, which isn't a 
part of any respected distribution anyway.. :)

--

Anders Norrbring
Norrbring Consulting


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Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.2 Laptop runs hot after resume

[Andre Truter]

On 12/25/06, Carlos E. R. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The system fan stil comes on at 80 deg and goes off at 75 deg again,
> so the system does not overheat.  It just runs hot and every now and
> again, the fan comes on.

Then it could be a changed setting in fan triggering, or that it is a
different "thing" which is triggering the fan.



Yes, it seems that the fan is set to off after a hibernate.
/proc/acpi/fan/C263/state  changes from "status:  on" to "status:
off", but I have no idea what is causing it.  All powersave settings
are the same, and all acpi related modules are the same.

Maybe I should try and reload the fan module after a hibernate..  I'll
give that a go and see what happens.
[...]


Perhaps when the scheme changes temperature settings are changed, and
other things. But a part of it is missing.



THe scheme does not change as far as I know.

[...]


If that is true and a card is consuming too much, it also increase the
temperature, but would it affect the cpu? Or is it just a temporary
situation while restoring, then the kernel gets control of things? Unless
a kernel developper has a look at it :-?

> 0x0080. Please report this to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.

You could try that, or report it to bugzilla, so that Novell people do.



I did report it to the given email address. Hopefully the sdhci guys
will make some sense of it.

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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.2 Laptop runs hot after resume

[Andre Truter]

On 12/25/06, Andre Truter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Yes, it seems that the fan is set to off after a hibernate.
/proc/acpi/fan/C263/state  changes from "status:  on" to "status:
off", but I have no idea what is causing it.  All powersave settings
are the same, and all acpi related modules are the same.

Maybe I should try and reload the fan module after a hibernate..  I'll
give that a go and see what happens.


I had to stop acpid and force remove the fan module to get it out.
Then, when I restart acpid, it loads the fan module again, but the fan
is still set to off.


Dec 25 13:33:13 fullyautomatix kernel: ACPI: Transitioning device [C260] to D3
Dec 25 13:33:13 fullyautomatix kernel: ACPI: Transitioning device [C260] to D3
Dec 25 13:33:13 fullyautomatix kernel: ACPI: Fan [C260] (off)
Dec 25 13:33:13 fullyautomatix kernel: ACPI: Transitioning device [C261] to D3
Dec 25 13:33:13 fullyautomatix kernel: ACPI: Transitioning device [C261] to D3
Dec 25 13:33:13 fullyautomatix kernel: ACPI: Fan [C261] (off)
Dec 25 13:33:13 fullyautomatix kernel: ACPI: Transitioning device [C262] to D3
Dec 25 13:33:13 fullyautomatix kernel: ACPI: Transitioning device [C262] to D3
Dec 25 13:33:13 fullyautomatix kernel: ACPI: Fan [C262] (off)
Dec 25 13:33:13 fullyautomatix kernel: ACPI: Transitioning device [C263] to D3
Dec 25 13:33:13 fullyautomatix kernel: ACPI: Transitioning device [C263] to D3
Dec 25 13:33:13 fullyautomatix kernel: ACPI: Fan [C263] (off)
Dec 25 13:33:14 fullyautomatix atieventsd[4264]: acpid connection established


So, something is telling acpi that the fan should not come on again.
(Transision to D3)
BIOS maybe?
But according the the BIOS, this should just be a shutdown and reboot.
Suspend-to-disk is not a BIOS function or is it?


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Re: [opensuse] rsync syntax

[Jan Engelhardt]

>rsync -a -e ssh --delete  /public/ :/home/user/www
  ^^

Not needed in SUSE.


-`J'
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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.2 no fan after resume

[ken]

In a previous post you mentioned an error message which said that
/usr/lib/powersave/scripts couldn't be found.  Did you check for that
directory... to see whether it exists...?  and what its permissions and
ownership are?  Does this directory contain any files?  If so, what are
the permissions and ownership on them?

Does the information gathered from the above correspond to the output of
"rpm -ql powersave"?

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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.2 Laptop runs hot after resume

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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The Monday 2006-12-25 at 13:39 +0200, Andre Truter wrote:

> > Maybe I should try and reload the fan module after a hibernate..  I'll
> > give that a go and see what happens.
> 
> I had to stop acpid and force remove the fan module to get it out.
> Then, when I restart acpid, it loads the fan module again, but the fan
> is still set to off.

> 
> 
> So, something is telling acpi that the fan should not come on again.

Some configuration that is not acting. I was thinking of something related 
to this:

|> Perhaps when the scheme changes temperature settings are changed, and
|> other things. But a part of it is missing.
|>
|
| THe scheme does not change as far as I know.

Your scheme may be the same, but after the resume I suppose it has to be 
applied, and there was an script error reported. It might be that, or not. 
If you can investigate it, try, if not, perhaps it's bugzilla time.


> (Transision to D3)
> BIOS maybe?
> But according the the BIOS, this should just be a shutdown and reboot.
> Suspend-to-disk is not a BIOS function or is it?

Yes, it is, but it can be bypassed. It's an option, in fact, use bios or 
not. There is a setting for that (or there was).


[...]

Found these (10.1):

- -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  8125 May  2  2006 /usr/sbin/fancontrol*
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 10425 May  2  2006 /usr/sbin/fancontrol.pl*

HTH.

- -- 
Cheers,
   Carlos E. R.

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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Kenneth Schneider]

On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 23:22 -0800, Robert Smits wrote:
> On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:39, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> >
> 
> Joe is absolutely correct to be worried about the future viability of Linux 
> software. Of course, it's not game over today, but if you've looked at the 
> implications of a future where every device, every piece of hardware has to 
> meet DRM specifications or the media will not play he's correct to be 
> worried. 
> 
> I suggest you start with this article that talks about the implications 
> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt 
> that Microsoft Vista has for equipment suppliers.
> 
> We (Linux users) are at what 4-5 % of computer users? 

Actually closer to 10%

> Much of our current use 
> of hardware is based on adapting hardware made for Windows equipment to 
> Linux.

The hardware is not made for Windows, drivers are written to sork with
the OS. The only hurdle is getting drivers for the hardware written for
linux.

>  What if we come to the point that we can't buy graphics cards without 
> Windows DRM that relegates linux users to low resolution graphics? 

What if the world blows up tomorrow?

> 
> I'm not suggesting that the sky is falling today,

But that is precisely what you are doing.

Linux is used far and wide by the federal government for it to go away.

-- 
Ken Schneider
UNIX  since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE  since 1998

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[opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Niels Østergaard Kjær]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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many fine letters on the goodbye  subject
and the subject  installs  as a secondary desktop.

There is a third aspect too, the Linux wall.

As a newbie we have to fight the total lack of knowledge (it is X-mas
so we suppose it is only about linux and nothing else in life  :)), so
when Kai P writes:
quote:

As anyone can tell you, getting popular codes to play multimedia takes
about
five minutes of your time.

then as a  newbie I look for the howto recipe for  how do I do it in 5
minutes too, the links showed static pictures and no info on how to do it.

my point is something about maybe to remember each of you have been
newbies once too, so pleace finish lines with howto  do it, not just
mention it is possible.

This is not a letter being hard on Kai or anyone else, more a
suggestion on one way to help newbies to be a steady linux user.

Merry x-mas

Niels




Kai Ponte wrote:
>> On Saturday 23 December 2006 17:14, John wrote:
 I'll tell you what this patent protection did for me.

 I had a nearly fully functioning SUSE 10.0 system. I never
 could get the nVidia driver to install and work for 3D video,
 although it worked fine in SUSE 9.2 Professional.
>>
>> Sounds like a personal problem to mePEBCEK anyone?
>>
 I made the mistake of upgrading to openSUSE 10.2 and now I'm
 regretting it big time. Mplayer was uninstalled by the
 upgrade, and none of my multimedia apps work cause of file
 format patents, from what I can tell by the big warning about
 patents on a Novell web page. I never saw or heard a peep out
 of Novell about patents before this Microsoft "deal". I think
 Novell got shafted by Microsoft. Time will tell, especially
 if MS ends up acquiring Red Hat (heaven forbid the financial
 experts are wrong).
>>
>> Sigh, another crossover loser from COLA...
>>
>> ...though I agree that Novell should show some cajones and
>> provide
multimedia
>> in their system like Xandros does, it really isn't a big deal.  I
>> mean,
take
>> a stock verson of WinXP or Vista and see what happens when you
>> stick a commercial Region 1 DVD in.
>>
>> 
>>
>> As anyone can tell you, getting popular codes to play multimedia
>> takes
about
>> five minutes of your time.
>>
>> http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/suse/desk_dvd_lg.jpg
>>
>> http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/suse/desktop+mp3.jpg
>>
>> http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/suse/2006/happyfeet1.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>> This has been true of any version since I started using SUSE
>> during 9.1
days.
 Why in the heck did openSUSE 10.2 have to remove a perfectly
 functioning Mplayer and leave me with a broken Kaffeine
 (which worked great before) and broken Noatun and broken
 XMMS, etc. I can't play any video formats now or burn any
 CDs. This is really pitiful.
>>
>> Again, PEBCEK - you screwed up.
>>
>> Too bad...
>>
>> ..so sorry.
>>
 I'm really disgusted with what this upgrade has done. And why
 so many file updating programs?  There's Yast, Yum, Smart,
 openSUSE Update, Synaptic, and a few more I can't remember at
 the moment. How in the world is a Windows user ever gonna
 convert and deal with so many choices?
>>
>> I did.
>>
>> My mom did.
>>
>> My wife is in the process.
>>
>> Not too hard.
>>
 The strangest thing of all is how the documentation compares
 Smart to Yast and Yum and shows how superior it is to both.
 Then why include Yast and Yum anymore?  Just provide Smart
 package manager and be done with it. Package management in
 Linux leaves a lot to be desired, compared to Windows
 Add/Remove Program and Setup programs.
>>
>> Linux = choices.
>>
>> Hey, some people even like the command line - or worse - Gnome.
>> What can I say?
>>
 Is Windows ready for prime time? I wish, but unfortunately,
 that's not the present situation.
>>
>> fixx0red your post.
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.2 Laptop runs hot after resume

[Kenneth Schneider]

On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 13:39 +0200, Andre Truter wrote:
> On 12/25/06, Andre Truter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, it seems that the fan is set to off after a hibernate.
> > /proc/acpi/fan/C263/state  changes from "status:  on" to "status:
> > off", but I have no idea what is causing it.  All powersave settings
> > are the same, and all acpi related modules are the same.

What other items do you have in /proc/acpi/fan/? It appears that we are
looking at more then one fan here.

Also the "status" reading may not be a switch that can be changed but
only a place holder for what is actually happening. You may have to set
a value elsewhere to turn the fan on and off. And the value may only
show "on" when the fan is actually running.

-- 
Ken Schneider
UNIX  since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE  since 1998

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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.2 Laptop runs hot after resume

[Basil Chupin]

Carlos E. R. wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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The Monday 2006-12-25 at 13:39 +0200, Andre Truter wrote:


Maybe I should try and reload the fan module after a hibernate..  I'll
give that a go and see what happens.

I had to stop acpid and force remove the fan module to get it out.
Then, when I restart acpid, it loads the fan module again, but the fan
is still set to off.





So, something is telling acpi that the fan should not come on again.


Some configuration that is not acting. I was thinking of something related 
to this:


|> Perhaps when the scheme changes temperature settings are changed, and
|> other things. But a part of it is missing.
|>
|
| THe scheme does not change as far as I know.

Your scheme may be the same, but after the resume I suppose it has to be 
applied, and there was an script error reported. It might be that, or not. 
If you can investigate it, try, if not, perhaps it's bugzilla time.




(Transision to D3)
BIOS maybe?
But according the the BIOS, this should just be a shutdown and reboot.
Suspend-to-disk is not a BIOS function or is it?


Yes, it is, but it can be bypassed. It's an option, in fact, use bios or 
not. There is a setting for that (or there was).



[...]

Found these (10.1):

- -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  8125 May  2  2006 /usr/sbin/fancontrol*
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 10425 May  2  2006 /usr/sbin/fancontrol.pl*

HTH.

- -- 
Cheers,

   Carlos E. R.



My apologies for butting in but I was just looking for something in the 
Control Center and came across Power Management option and inside it 
Power Management Scheme Setup. I wonder if this could have anything to 
do with what is now being discussed in this thread? If not then accept 
my sorries.


Cheers.


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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


The Monday 2006-12-25 at 13:39 +0100, Niels Østergaard Kjær wrote:

> then as a  newbie I look for the howto recipe for  how do I do it in 5
> minutes too, the links showed static pictures and no info on how to do it.
> 
> my point is something about maybe to remember each of you have been
> newbies once too, so pleace finish lines with howto  do it, not just
> mention it is possible.

Perhaps because we have explained it so many times we tire of repeating 
it.

In a word: install those things from packman, or compile them yourself.

- -- 
Cheers,
   Carlos E. R.
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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Basil Chupin]

Kenneth Schneider wrote:

On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 23:22 -0800, Robert Smits wrote:

On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:39, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Joe is absolutely correct to be worried about the future viability of Linux 
software. Of course, it's not game over today, but if you've looked at the 
implications of a future where every device, every piece of hardware has to 
meet DRM specifications or the media will not play he's correct to be 
worried. 

I suggest you start with this article that talks about the implications 
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt 
that Microsoft Vista has for equipment suppliers.


[pruned]


 What if we come to the point that we can't buy graphics cards without 
Windows DRM that relegates linux users to low resolution graphics? 


What if the world blows up tomorrow?


I'm not suggesting that the sky is falling today,


But that is precisely what you are doing.




Linux is used far and wide by the federal government for it to go away.


But Ken, your federal government must have used some other OS before 
switching to Linux which means that 'they' are a fickle lot and will 
switch from Linux at a drop of a hat. If they abandoned the other OS 
then they will abandon Linux given the appropriate excuses.


Cheers.


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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[jdd]

Basil Chupin a écrit :

But Ken, your federal government must have used some other OS before 
switching to Linux which means that 'they' are a fickle lot and will 
switch from Linux at a drop of a hat. If they abandoned the other OS 
then they will abandon Linux given the appropriate excuses.


a gov usually don't do things without reason. you severely 
underestimate the opensourse stgrenght _in it's principle_.


US gov may trust Msoft (do it?) but no other gov should do 
and many become aware of that.


let only for safety of financial or military state 
computers. Do you imagine how easy it is for NSA to get any 
entry in any computer running windows without anyone knowing it?


any government have the power of reading a kernel source as 
a way of verifying if there is a backgate.


just as one of many strong argument.

we are far from the usual mediacenter, but this mean than 
many people have great interest of linux survive.


just an other example.

You are certainly aware of the number of standalone photo 
card reader/cdwriter one can find in any shop nowaday. Many 
run Linux. so when we will need a reader driver, we will 
have one :-)


jdd


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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[steve reilly]

On Monday 25 December 2006 03:49, Peter Nikolic wrote:

> >
> > Sorry, but if you're going to play dumb, it would be far too tedious and
> > time consuming to try and bring you up to speed. Suffice it to say there
> > is apparently a huge gap between our positions. Go back to sleep...
> >
> >
> > Joe
>
> Ohh  touchy are we ... ?.



lolthis is better than southpark..




Merry Christmas all.




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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Pascal Bleser]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Niels Østergaard Kjær wrote:
[...]
> then as a newbie I look for the howto recipe for how do I do it in 5
> minutes too, the links showed static pictures and no info on how to do it.

Note that it is exactly the same problem that causes no MP3 & friends
support to be available out-of-the-box on Linux distributions that
causes information on how to add it to be scattered around and, say, not
available on openSUSE.org

Unfortunately, again, software patents and abusive monopolism (and this
time I'm talking about the MPEG Group) as well as not using open codecs
is the reason it is so "difficult" to do.

Documentation can always be enhanced, of course.
Contribute your suggestions.

> my point is something about maybe to remember each of you have been
> newbies once too, so please finish lines with how to do it, not just
> mention it is possible.
> 
> This is not a letter being hard on Kai or anyone else, more a
> suggestion on one way to help newbies to be a steady linux user.

Have a look at this:
http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats
and suggest how we could enhance it (i.e. make it easier to understand
and apply).

cheers
- --
  -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Mike McMullin]

On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 21:34 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> On Sunday 24 December 2006 20:55, J Sloan wrote:
> > > ...
> >
> > No need. Perhaps I was too hasty to dismiss your questions - Each of
> > the points you reference above can be easily grasped with just a bit
> > of thought, but I hesitate to put a lot of work into explaining all
> > these points if you're really determined not to understand.
> 
> On the contrary. I want a discussion that is not dripping with 
> ambiguity, imagery and allusion and not so laden with emotion. Nothing 
> good is served by carrying on in that manner. You could call it FUD...
> 
> 
> > The bottom line is that you apparently see no danger to linux, but I
> > do - as for the details, they will have to await another post, when I
> > have some time to laboriously explain each of the common terms used
> > above.
> 
> In fact, I see no danger to Linux because you cannot destroy an idea. 
> Linux is too entrenched and too important to far too many individuals 
> and organizations, including large business concerns, distributed all 
> over the globe to be allowed to die or be killed.

  The quibble I have with this statement is that you missed what I
consider to be an essential point, i.e. unlike other OS's that
businesses have used in the past e.g. OS2, Linux is open source, hence
any set of competent programmers _can_ keep it going.  It's open nature,
IMO, is proof against easy demise.

> Consider the RIM / Blackberry suit. It was resolved because the 
> technology was just too damn important to too many "important" people 
> in the U.S. (i.e., people willing to shell out huge bucks to be 
> distracted by their email at all times in all places) to be allowed to 
> go dark. The same holds for Linux, only in a much less frivolous way.

  An interesting take on that.  I believe that it was only, all about
the money, not about protecting the IP.  But then I'm biased in favour
of RIM, as they are Canadian.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Mathias Homann]

Pascal Bleser schrieb:
> Have a look at this:
> http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats
> and suggest how we could enhance it (i.e. make it easier to understand
> and apply).

I looked, I found it easy enough to understand. If THAT is too
complicated for someone, maybe that person should not try to operate
complicated machinery (like, a bottle opener).


I'm not trying to be offensive here, but the internet is in it current
sorry state (1 out of 2 windows machines backdoored and/or trojaned,
hence abused for mailing spam or phishing attacks, and for ddos-ing and
dictionary attacks) exactly because it's the "in" thing to be online,
even if you dont actually know why, where, or how, and if you don't have
the slightest clue about security, who cares. Gates and Ballmer said
that you dont have to know, so everything is fine, isn't it?

Now, imagine an internet where all users know what they're doing...


bye,
MH

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Jan Engelhardt]

On Dec 25 2006 13:39, Niels Østergaard Kjær wrote:
>
>many fine letters on the goodbye  subject
>and the subject  installs  as a secondary desktop.
>
>There is a third aspect too, the Linux wall.
>
>As a newbie we have to fight the total lack of knowledge (it is X-mas


All newbies please read  http://vtbsd.net/notwindows.html (also applies 
to Linux and quite any community projects) section 3, 3a and 3b,
*ESPECIALLY* the lego analogy.




-`J'
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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Mike McMullin]

On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 23:32 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> On Sunday 24 December 2006 23:22, Robert Smits wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > Joe is absolutely correct to be worried about the future viability of
> > Linux software. Of course, it's not game over today, but if you've
> > looked at the implications of a future where every device, every
> > piece of hardware has to meet DRM specifications or the media will
> > not play he's correct to be worried.
> 
> There's a tremendous range of applications that have nothing to do with 
> media. And there's a lot of media that is not now released under DRM 
> and there will continue to be a lot of it.
> 
> Every paragraph of your reply except one mentions DRM! If you see the 
> entire issue of open computing platforms as one and the same with DRM, 
> then you're not going to be able to properly and comprehensively 
> address issues of equal and open access to computing.

  My apologies for tacking this onto your article, Randall.

  One ought to seriously consider that there are those Windows users who
don't want DRM laden technology stopping them from doing what they want.
The market has yet to through it's weight around on this issue, I
suspect that is mostly because it is unaware of alternatives.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[Mike McMullin]

On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 11:51 +0100, Anders Norrbring wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
> > The Monday 2006-12-25 at 01:14 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:
> > 
> >> Just two problems:  first, I took others' advice again to switch from
> >> Reiser to ext3fs, 
> > 
> > You choose that advice instead of the advice to the contrary.
> > 
> >> I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in
> >> Reiser don't come to my system.
> > 
> > What bugs?
> 
> 
> My highly unqualified guess would be the bugs in reiser4, which isn't a 
> part of any respected distribution anyway.. :)

  I'm trying to remember where I saw Reiser4 as a disk option, and
lately I've only been tinkering with SuSE and Ubuntu Dapper Drake (the
install DVD that I have, has broken reiser3 utilities).

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Re: [opensuse] Sound from browsers stuck in a loop

[Darryl Gregorash]

On 2006-12-25 01:02, Basil Chupin wrote:
>
> Nope, this beta version is as useless as its predecessor: the video
> goes into "loop" mode at least once during play but at least now it
> actually breaks out of the loop after a few seconds instead of
> "looping" ad finitum.
>
I hope you have let them know about the bug this time :-)


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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Mike McMullin]

On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 13:52 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> The Monday 2006-12-25 at 13:39 +0100, Niels Østergaard Kjær wrote:
> 
> > then as a  newbie I look for the howto recipe for  how do I do it in 5
> > minutes too, the links showed static pictures and no info on how to do it.
> > 
> > my point is something about maybe to remember each of you have been
> > newbies once too, so pleace finish lines with howto  do it, not just
> > mention it is possible.
> 
> Perhaps because we have explained it so many times we tire of repeating 
> it.
> 
> In a word: install those things from packman, or compile them yourself.

  Perhaps some of us ought to sit down and write this stuff up for the
openSuSE wiki, then people can be pointed to the site which will show
them where to get faster and proven answers to the more common
questions.

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[opensuse] Re: [oS] Re: [oS] The latest on Hans Reiser, even though slightly OT.

[C. Brouerius van Nidek]

On Monday 25 December 2006 14:34, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> On Sunday December 24 2006 11:59 pm, C. Brouerius van Nidek wrote:
> > On Monday 25 December 2006 10:21, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> > > http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72342-0.html
> >
> > And when are you comming back on the OT list?
>
> I've heard from a bunch of people who wonder where I've been. ;) I didn't
> take myself off of it.got "dumpded" when the change over took place.
> But, it's less work for me. :)
>
Dear Fred,
The OT list is empty without your input ;(
Please come back :)

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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Mike McMullin]

On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 23:59 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
> Kenneth Schneider wrote:
> > On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 23:22 -0800, Robert Smits wrote:
> >> On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:39, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> >> Joe is absolutely correct to be worried about the future viability of 
> >> Linux 
> >> software. Of course, it's not game over today, but if you've looked at the 
> >> implications of a future where every device, every piece of hardware has 
> >> to 
> >> meet DRM specifications or the media will not play he's correct to be 
> >> worried. 
> >>
> >> I suggest you start with this article that talks about the implications 
> >> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt 
> >> that Microsoft Vista has for equipment suppliers.
> 
> [pruned]
> 
> 
> >>  What if we come to the point that we can't buy graphics cards without 
> >> Windows DRM that relegates linux users to low resolution graphics? 
> > 
> > What if the world blows up tomorrow?
> > 
> >> I'm not suggesting that the sky is falling today,
> > 
> > But that is precisely what you are doing.
> 
> 
> > Linux is used far and wide by the federal government for it to go away.
> 
> But Ken, your federal government must have used some other OS before 
> switching to Linux which means that 'they' are a fickle lot and will 
> switch from Linux at a drop of a hat. If they abandoned the other OS 
> then they will abandon Linux given the appropriate excuses.

  Part of it is cost, part of it is security.  The release of Vista
seems to indicate the end of the MS monolithic desktop, can their server
software be far behind?

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


The Monday 2006-12-25 at 10:45 -0500, Mike McMullin wrote:

> > In a word: install those things from packman, or compile them yourself.
> 
>   Perhaps some of us ought to sit down and write this stuff up for the
> openSuSE wiki, then people can be pointed to the site which will show
> them where to get faster and proven answers to the more common
> questions.

I'm afraid it can't go there. Even explanations on how to bypass those 
"limitations" can not go to the site where Novell is responsible and could 
be sued. At least, so I understood.

- -- 
Cheers,
   Carlos E. R.
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Re: [opensuse] Upgrade experiences 10.0 -> 10.2 ?

[Lennart Börjeson]

I did that and got caught by 
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227249. Don't now why, still 
don't know what to do about it. YMMV.

Apart from that I discovered that smbfs is gone from the kernel and samba 
share mounting has to to be done with mount.cifs instead of smbmount. Took 
some googling...

/Lennart

lördag 23 december 2006 19:16 skrev Karl Agee:
> I've seen only a few posts on successful upgrades from
> 10.0 to opensuse 10.2, anyone have any further
> experiences/words of wisdom before I "take the
> plunge"?
>
> Yes, I do have a complete backup made in case it goes foobar.
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[John K Masters]

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 17:00:14 +0100 (CET)
"Carlos E. R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> The Monday 2006-12-25 at 10:45 -0500, Mike McMullin wrote:
> 
> > > In a word: install those things from packman, or compile them yourself.
> > 
> >   Perhaps some of us ought to sit down and write this stuff up for the
> > openSuSE wiki, then people can be pointed to the site which will show
> > them where to get faster and proven answers to the more common
> > questions.
> 
> I'm afraid it can't go there. Even explanations on how to bypass those 
> "limitations" can not go to the site where Novell is responsible and could 
> be sued. At least, so I understood.
> 
I am afraid it's goodbye to the Suse mailing list for me. I have never come 
across a more hostile list and I subscribe to Mutt, Postfix, Procmail, Debian 
and CentOS. In future I'll work around my own problems but I hesitate to post 
the solutions here due to the general attitude.

Peace and goodwill to all men (and women)
-- 
John K Masters - User #417400 in the Linux Counter http://counter.li.org/

No trees were killed in the creation of this message.
However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Randall R Schulz]

On Monday 25 December 2006 07:10, Mike McMullin wrote:
> ...
> >
> > In fact, I see no danger to Linux because you cannot destroy an
> > idea. Linux is too entrenched and too important to far too many
> > individuals and organizations, including large business concerns,
> > distributed all over the globe to be allowed to die or be killed.
>
>   The quibble I have with this statement is that you missed what I
> consider to be an essential point, i.e. unlike other OS's that
> businesses have used in the past e.g. OS2, Linux is open source,
> hence any set of competent programmers _can_ keep it going.  It's
> open nature, IMO, is proof against easy demise.

I don't see how your quibble is even opposed to what I wrote. I'm 
arguing that Linux is not at risk for becoming extinct.


> ...


Randall Schulz
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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Robert Smits]

On Sunday 24 December 2006 23:32, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> On Sunday 24 December 2006 23:22, Robert Smits wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > Joe is absolutely correct to be worried about the future viability of
> > Linux software. Of course, it's not game over today, but if you've
> > looked at the implications of a future where every device, every
> > piece of hardware has to meet DRM specifications or the media will
> > not play he's correct to be worried.
>
> There's a tremendous range of applications that have nothing to do with
> media. And there's a lot of media that is not now released under DRM
> and there will continue to be a lot of it.
>
> Every paragraph of your reply except one mentions DRM! If you see the
> entire issue of open computing platforms as one and the same with DRM,
> then you're not going to be able to properly and comprehensively
> address issues of equal and open access to computing.
>

Of course it's not only DRM! It's DRM, software patents, proprietary software, 
copyright legislation and a whole host of things that have the potential to 
really screw up the future. It's not going to go away simply because you 
choose to ignore it. 

I'm optimistic that the world will see through these various schemes to 
harness us all to the proprietary world, but we need to be paying attention. 
I fear some of us are still comfortably asleep.


-- 
Bob Smits 
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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[James Knott]

John E. Perry wrote:
> Just two problems:  first, I took others' advice again to switch from
> Reiser to ext3fs, but my home directory is too big to get onto cd's or
> dvd's, so I now have a system based on ext3fs except for the /home
> directory, which is still Reiser.  I'm digging through the home
> directories so I can divide it onto several dvds, but it's going to take
> a while.
>   
Since you're blowing away most of the system anyway, why not just create
a new ext3 partition and copy /home to it.  Then, when you install the
new system, just mount that ext3 partition as /home.  You can use a
rescue CD to create the new partition and copy /home.

Incidentally, you may want to invest in an external USB hard drive. 
They're cheap these days and can hold a lot of data.  I've got one here
that's 160 GB.  It currently contains a couple of generations of backup
from two computers.


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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Randall R Schulz]

On Monday 25 December 2006 07:25, Mike McMullin wrote:
> ...
>
>   One ought to seriously consider that there are those Windows users
> who don't want DRM laden technology stopping them from doing what
> they want. The market has yet to through it's weight around on this
> issue, I suspect that is mostly because it is unaware of
> alternatives.

This emphasizes the non-technical aspect of DRM. It's only there and 
growing because of the current lopsided state of intellectual property 
law and that's what it is entirely because of the hegemony formed by 
large business corporations.

So there is no technical solution to this aspect of DRM, except of 
course to continue to subvert it (technically).

Randall Schulz
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Re: [opensuse] The latest on Hans Reiser, even though slightly OT.

[James Knott]

Randall R Schulz wrote:
> On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:21, Fred A. Miller wrote:
>   
>> http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72342-0.html
>> 
>
> That's a broken link.
>
> Could you get the correct one and re-send? Here or on off-topic, it's 
> all the same to me.
>
>   

That link works for me.

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Re: [opensuse] The latest on Hans Reiser, even though slightly OT.

[Randall R Schulz]

On Sunday 24 December 2006 23:56, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> On Monday December 25 2006 2:34 am, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> > On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:21, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> > > http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72342-0.html
> >
> > That's a broken link.
> >
> > Could you get the correct one and re-send? Here or on off-topic,
> > it's all the same to me.
>
> Sorryit's:
> http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72342-0.html Just like I have
> it above. 'Just checked it again.works fine.

'Cept it doesn't:

-==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==-
Sorry, that file was not found 

The file your browser requested could not be found on our servers. We 
may have recently moved around, renamed, or deleted certain files.

* If you were looking for a particular article or topic, try using 
our search form in the header above.
* If you clicked a link somewhere on our site and were led to this 
page, please let us know so we can fix our mistake as soon as possible.
* Otherwise, try returning back to Wired News Home and browsing from 
there.
-==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==-


I tried both clicking in KMail and copy-and-paste into the browser's 
address box. I'm using Firefox 1.5.0.8 under 10.2. I have noticed no 
other symptoms of problems with Web access.


> Fred


Randall Schulz
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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Robert Smits]

On Monday 25 December 2006 02:10, Marcus Meissner wrote:

> But this is not a Linux problem, it is more a problem of the current
> state in the software industry where everything multimedia interesting
> requires per-copy royalties, NDAs, closed source and so on.

But this makes it a Linux problem! And a problem for every OS that is not 
proprietary closed source. The non OSS industry would love to shut us out of 
what you call "everything multimedia interesting".

-- 
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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Jos van Kan]

Niels Østergaard Kjær wrote:

> 
> As a newbie we have to fight the total lack of knowledge (it is X-mas
> so we suppose it is only about linux and nothing else in life  :)), so
> when Kai P writes:
> quote:
> 
> As anyone can tell you, getting popular codes to play multimedia takes
> about
> five minutes of your time.
> 
> then as a  newbie I look for the howto recipe for  how do I do it in 5
> minutes too, the links showed static pictures and no info on how to do it.
> 

Unfortunately How To's are outdated more often than not. Better use Google. In
your particular example the search terms

suse 10.2 play multimedia

gives in its very first hit a blow by blow account of how to solve this
particular problem.

This is rather the rule than the exception.

Best regards and merry X-mas,

-- 
Jos van Kanregistered Linux user #152704
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Re: [opensuse] The latest on Hans Reiser, even though slightly OT.

[Randall R Schulz]

On Monday 25 December 2006 08:31, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> ...
>
>
> I tried both clicking in KMail and copy-and-paste into the browser's
> address box. I'm using Firefox 1.5.0.8 under 10.2. I have noticed no
> other symptoms of problems with Web access.

Sorry. That's not right. I didn't wait and watch long enough. If I 
copy-and-paste, then it works. If I click on the link in KMail, then 
the URL that the browser gets stops before the comma.

Weird.


> > Fred


Randall Schulz
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Re: [opensuse] The latest on Hans Reiser, even though slightly OT.

[James Knott]

Randall R Schulz wrote:
> On Sunday 24 December 2006 23:56, Fred A. Miller wrote:
>   
>> On Monday December 25 2006 2:34 am, Randall R Schulz wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:21, Fred A. Miller wrote:
>>>   
 http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72342-0.html
 
>>> That's a broken link.
>>>
>>> Could you get the correct one and re-send? Here or on off-topic,
>>> it's all the same to me.
>>>   
>> Sorryit's:
>> http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72342-0.html Just like I have
>> it above. 'Just checked it again.works fine.
>> 
>
> 'Cept it doesn't:
>
> -==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==-
> Sorry, that file was not found 
>
> The file your browser requested could not be found on our servers. We 
> may have recently moved around, renamed, or deleted certain files.
>
> * If you were looking for a particular article or topic, try using 
> our search form in the header above.
> * If you clicked a link somewhere on our site and were led to this 
> page, please let us know so we can fix our mistake as soon as possible.
> * Otherwise, try returning back to Wired News Home and browsing from 
> there.
> -==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==-
>
>
> I tried both clicking in KMail and copy-and-paste into the browser's 
> address box. I'm using Firefox 1.5.0.8 under 10.2. I have noticed no 
> other symptoms of problems with Web access.
>
>
>   
I suspect you may have some problem on your end.  I can click on either
link above and get to that article.

I've sent you an email with that page attached.

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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Robert Smits]

On Monday 25 December 2006 04:39, Kenneth Schneider wrote:

> >
> > We (Linux users) are at what 4-5 % of computer users?
>
> Actually closer to 10%

Good. I haven't seen estimates that high, but I suspect it's because it's much 
harder to aggregate all those downloads and magazine DVDs.

> > Much of our current use
> > of hardware is based on adapting hardware made for Windows equipment to
> > Linux.
>
> The hardware is not made for Windows, drivers are written to sork with
> the OS. The only hurdle is getting drivers for the hardware written for
> linux.
>

The current generation of hardware IS being made for Windows, by and large, 
and a other operating systems can use it as well. But the current generation 
of Windows hardware does not have to cater to the demands of VISTA compatible 
hardware and it doesn't matter that most of it is going into Windows boxes. 
It may begin to matter when the hardware made for Windows boxes won't work 
for anyone else.

> >  What if we come to the point that we can't buy graphics cards without
> > Windows DRM that relegates linux users to low resolution graphics?
>
> What if the world blows up tomorrow?

Then I doubt we'll be worried about any of this stuff.

> > I'm not suggesting that the sky is falling today,
>
> But that is precisely what you are doing.

With respect, Ken, what I said was "I'm not suggesting that the sky is falling 
today, but I do think there are a lot of black clouds on the horizon that we 
should be concerned about."

I'm not suggesting we should throw up our hands and acquiesce. I suggest we 
take the possibilities seriously and do whatever each of us can to combat it. 

> Linux is used far and wide by the federal government for it to go away.
>

Government (in any country) is too fickle to be counted as a saviour of OSS 
software. Governments can change hands, lobbyists curry favour, and we get
shafted. Linux will really only be secure when a large enough portion of the 
market uses it everyday that no government would dare piss off all those 
voters.



-- 
Bob Smits 
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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Jay Smith]

I have to apologize on behalf of those whom care (since surely I can't speak for
everyone). I think we are all a little on edge over this Novell and Microsoft
thing. Keeps us all on edge because people are getting mad at Novell and in 
turn,
are getting mad at us here at OpenSuSE so we are all getting defensive and 
hostile.

I apologize to anyone I personally offended and apologize to anyone whom has 
been
offended by anyone. I think we should all respect each other's ideas. That
doesn't necessarily mean we have to agree with everyone, we just need to respect
their ideas. Help those whom want help, so on and so forth. 

Merry Christmas all

On Mon Dec 25  8:05 , John K Masters  sent:

>On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 17:00:14 +0100 (CET)
>"Carlos E. R." [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> 
>> The Monday 2006-12-25 at 10:45 -0500, Mike McMullin wrote:
>> 
>> > > In a word: install those things from packman, or compile them yourself.
>> > 
>> >   Perhaps some of us ought to sit down and write this stuff up for the
>> > openSuSE wiki, then people can be pointed to the site which will show
>> > them where to get faster and proven answers to the more common
>> > questions.
>> 
>> I'm afraid it can't go there. Even explanations on how to bypass those 
>> "limitations" can not go to the site where Novell is responsible and could 
>> be sued. At least, so I understood.
>> 
>I am afraid it's goodbye to the Suse mailing list for me. I have never come
across a more hostile list and I subscribe to Mutt, Postfix, Procmail, Debian 
and
CentOS. In future I'll work around my own problems but I hesitate to post the
solutions here due to the general attitude.
>
>Peace and goodwill to all men (and women)
>-- 
>John K Masters - User #417400 in the Linux Counter http://counter.li.org/
>
>No trees were killed in the creation of this message.
>However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Re: [opensuse] how to install usb external disk

[Darryl Gregorash]

On 2006-12-24 11:39, Mike McMullin wrote:
> On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 09:25 +0100, Primm wrote:
>   
>> 
>> It doesn't show up in Yast.
>> 
>
>   Fortunately your hardware pusher is open today, and you can either get
> the exchange, or a fix on it.
>
>   
Try a different USB cable first, as someone else has suggested.

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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[J Sloan]

Peter Nikolic wrote:
> On Monday 25 December 2006 03:46, J Sloan wrote:
>> Randall R Schulz wrote:
>>> Can you define what you mean when you say:
>>>
>>> - "enough of a critical mass"
>>> - "to matter"
>>> - "leverage control"
>>> - "onramps to the information highway"
>>> - "game over"
>>> - "meaningful access"
>>> - "most internet content"
>>> - "islands"
>>> - "hopeless, irrelevant rebellion"
>>> - "microsoft world"
>> Sorry, but if you're going to play dumb, it would be far too tedious and
>> time consuming to try and bring you up to speed. Suffice it to say there is
>> apparently a huge gap between our positions. Go back to sleep...
>>
>>
>> Joe
> 
> 
> Ohh  touchy are we ... ?.  

Yeah, my bad - I took his reply as "I don't like what you're saying, so I'm
going to pretend that I don't understand any of commonly understood terms you
used, and I'm going to demand that you define everything"

I admit, "go back to sleep" was uncalled for.

The basic issue is whether the success of linux is assured, or whether there
is yet work to be done. I think there is work to be done, and it can certainly
be accomplished with the available talent of the linux community, but there is
a certain wealthy corporation with access to lawmakers and key influencers,
who consider it fairly important to stop linux. To ignore this fact will not
make the job easier, to put it mildly.

I'll probably just send Randall the definitions of those commonly used terms
that he wanted via PM to avoid inflicting any more of the thread on this list.


Joe
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Re: [opensuse] how to install usb external disk

[Darryl Gregorash]

On 2006-12-24 07:33, Primm wrote:
> I exchanged the disk ... and it worked 

I guess you don't need to bother with a different USB cable then :-)

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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[J Sloan]

Basil Chupin wrote:
> Kenneth Schneider wrote:

>> Linux is used far and wide by the federal government for it to go away.
> 
> But Ken, your federal government must have used some other OS before
> switching to Linux which means that 'they' are a fickle lot and will
> switch from Linux at a drop of a hat. If they abandoned the other OS
> then they will abandon Linux given the appropriate excuses.

Indeed, linux is used heavily in the server rooms, as it should be, but it
isn't that hard to imagine a scenario where some convicted monopolist gives a
government agency a sweetheart deal, applying pressure at several points:
bribes for the decision makers, offers of free software and free support for 3
years, reams of "studies" showing that microsoft servers are super duper, and
that "everyone else is going that way". The hapless bureaucrat might well
shrug and say "we're using 100% microsoft on the desktop, why not in the
server room too".

But even a 10% linux presence on the desktop would be a powerful deterrent
against such a checkmate. There really is a network effect, that the clever
business people at microsoft understand well. When there are a lot of
interdependencies, you can't just yank one piece out - but in the case where
linux is isolated in the server room, it can be replaced, even though
technically speaking, it should not be.

Read Linus statements about the importance of desktop Linux for a heads-up.

Joe
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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Randall R Schulz]

On Monday 25 December 2006 08:24, Robert Smits wrote:
> On Sunday 24 December 2006 23:32, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > Every paragraph of your reply except one mentions DRM! If you see
> > the entire issue of open computing platforms as one and the same
> > with DRM, then you're not going to be able to properly and
> > comprehensively address issues of equal and open access to
> > computing.
>
> Of course it's not only DRM! It's DRM, software patents, proprietary
> software, copyright legislation and a whole host of things that have
> the potential to really screw up the future. It's not going to go
> away simply because you choose to ignore it.

I'm not ignoring it.


> I'm optimistic that the world will see through these various schemes
> to harness us all to the proprietary world, but we need to be paying
> attention. I fear some of us are still comfortably asleep.

How is that simple statement of optimism different than me saying I 
don't think Linux is in danger of being eradicated / exterminated / 
made extict / outlawed / whatever.


> --
> Bob Smits


Randall Schulz

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[jdd]

Pascal Bleser a écrit :


Have a look at this:
http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats


may be this very url should be setup on the list server to 
be on any mail bottom :-), it's far the most asked problem :-)))


jdd
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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[jdd]

Mathias Homann a écrit :


Now, imagine an internet where all users know what they're doing...


please, don't, we need work :-)
jdd





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[opensuse] ZenUpdater/installer/Smart v. Opensuse Updater v. Yast

[Karl Agee]

Ok so the "default" update/software mechanism in
opensuse 10.2 is ZMD/Smart.  So what is this thing I
see in there called "opensuse updater"?  Does it run
off the same database as ZMD  what about using
Yast for software updates/installation?   I have used
it to install some packages, seems to work just
fine..



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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.2 Laptop runs hot after resume

[Andre Truter]

On 12/25/06, Kenneth Schneider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 13:39 +0200, Andre Truter wrote:
> On 12/25/06, Andre Truter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, it seems that the fan is set to off after a hibernate.
> > /proc/acpi/fan/C263/state  changes from "status:  on" to "status:
> > off", but I have no idea what is causing it.  All powersave settings
> > are the same, and all acpi related modules are the same.

What other items do you have in /proc/acpi/fan/? It appears that we are
looking at more then one fan here.


Yes, there are 4 fans (C260 - C263).  I only mentioned the last one as
the others are always in an off state.



Also the "status" reading may not be a switch that can be changed but
only a place holder for what is actually happening. You may have to set
a value elsewhere to turn the fan on and off. And the value may only
show "on" when the fan is actually running.



Yes, I assume that it is only and indicator.  Problem is that I have
no idea what to do to control the fan or to just change it's state.
I tried the powersave settings, but that have no effect.



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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.2 Laptop runs hot after resume

[Andre Truter]

On 12/25/06, Carlos E. R. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



|> Perhaps when the scheme changes temperature settings are changed, and
|> other things. But a part of it is missing.
|>
|
| THe scheme does not change as far as I know.

Your scheme may be the same, but after the resume I suppose it has to be
applied, and there was an script error reported. It might be that, or not.
If you can investigate it, try, if not, perhaps it's bugzilla time.



I did try to change the scheme to Acourtic and then back to
Performance, but that does not make any difference.

This seems to be only a problem on my machine.  I have not heard any
other nx6125 users having the same problem.

Anyone out there with similar problems?


[...]

Found these (10.1):

- -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  8125 May  2  2006 /usr/sbin/fancontrol*
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 10425 May  2  2006 /usr/sbin/fancontrol.pl*



I'll look into these, thatnks.

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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.2 no fan after resume

[Andre Truter]

On 12/25/06, ken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


In a previous post you mentioned an error message which said that
/usr/lib/powersave/scripts couldn't be found.  Did you check for that
directory... to see whether it exists...?  and what its permissions and
ownership are?  Does this directory contain any files?  If so, what are
the permissions and ownership on them?

Does the information gathered from the above correspond to the output of
"rpm -ql powersave"?



The directory contains a number of scripts that is part of the rpm and
does have read and execute permissions for everyone.
So this must be a powersave bug.



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Re: [opensuse] new disks devices

[jdd]

jdd a écrit :
We begin to see strange devices for disk access, beside the usual 
/dev/hd or /dev/sd, like /dev/dm- or /dev/usb(...).


Do you know of any doc giving a survey of this new feature without 
searching the kernel source?


just for the record, the kernel source for that is in 
Documentation/devices.text and I find no instance od /dev/dm :-(

jdd


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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Randall R Schulz]

On Monday 25 December 2006 07:19, Mathias Homann wrote:
> ...
>
> Now, imagine an internet where all users know what they're doing...

How much do you know about the fabrication and / or the internal 
function of these ordinary things or systems:

- Automobiles
- Farms
- Food production
- Medicine
- Bridges, Buildings and Towers
- Highways
- Printing
- Telecommunications
- Shoes
- Electric Power
- Potable Water
- Sanitation
- Fuel
- and on and on and on and on...

Hell, the lowly bicycle is now a high-tech device! The same is true for 
very many objects and infrastructural elements.


If you happen to have access to The Science Channel 
(), check out a program called "How it's 
Made" 
() 
and you'll realize that specialization of knowledge in 
fabricating "ordinary, everyday" objects and consumables has reached an 
astonishing level. At least 99% of the things we take for granted as 
well as a whole lot of stuff we don't even know is involved in 
providing our comfortable everyday life are things about which most of 
us know next to nothing.

What do you suppose would happen if some sort of plague wiped out one in 
every ten humans? Could we go on as we live now, or would it imply so 
much loss of working knowledge that we'd be set back a hundred years or 
more?


The point is, that it is _not_ up to users to posses in-depth knowledge 
of a technology they're using. They cannot be ignorant of the 
consequences of those technologies, lest we end up...oh, I don't know, 
rendering the planet uninhabitable...but every little detail should not 
be the responsibility of a technology consumer. That's the engineer's 
job.

It's a sad fact that right now computing is so immature and yet so 
undeniably useful that people have adopted it far and wide, often 
unwittingly exposing themselves to all manner of risk and hazard. If 
the risk took the form of computers exploding, we'd never tolerate the 
risk, but the abstractness of the medium of information and computation 
leads people to wander into realms that can do them and others real 
harm.


Shame on us! (By which I mean us programmers and software developers!)


> bye,
> MH


Randall Schulz
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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Mike]

On Monday 25 December 2006 20:16, Randall R Schulz wrote:

> Hell, the lowly bicycle is now a high-tech device! The same is true
> for very many objects and infrastructural elements.

Naa. I've still got an old single speed wide handlebar, saddle seat  
bike that I ride frequently.. It still works, and I can still buy tires 
for it. I mainly use it when I need a real workout.. ;-)

Mike

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[John E. Perry]

Basil Chupin wrote:
> John E. Perry wrote:
>> 
>> Just two problems:  first, I took others' advice again to switch from
>> Reiser to ext3fs, but my home directory is too big to get onto cd's or
>> dvd's, so I now have a system based on ext3fs except for the /home
>> directory, which is still Reiser.  I'm digging through the home
>> directories so I can divide it onto several dvds, but it's going to take
>> a while.
>>
> 
> How big *is* your /home directory?! :-)
> 

32+G.  I have thousands of technical documents from 35+ years of
engineering work, hundreds more from hobbies I've had over the years,
and dozens more from various projects I've done on contract since I got
laid off from my last few jobs.

> And how big is your / partition where Suse is intstalled? Surely it must
> be big enough and with enough space left for you to copy your current
> /home directory to / then format your current /home partition in ext3
> and then it copy back from / . No, this can't be done?

/ is 20G, of which suse 10.2 takes up 5.7G, and I haven't finished
installing all the applications I need and want.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Randall R Schulz]

On Monday 25 December 2006 11:23, Mike wrote:
> On Monday 25 December 2006 20:16, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> > Hell, the lowly bicycle is now a high-tech device! The same is true
> > for very many objects and infrastructural elements.
>
> Naa. I've still got an old single speed wide handlebar, saddle seat
> bike that I ride frequently.. It still works, and I can still buy
> tires for it. I mainly use it when I need a real workout.. ;-)

Being able to buy the stuff is not the point. When you do that you're 
relying on knowledge you don't possess.

Could you fabricate any of those replacement parts or even minimally 
functional substitutes? Do you even know how a coaster brake works? 
Could you create ball or roller bearings for the wheels and bottom 
bracket? Could you produce a drive chain? What about the seat cushion? 
An inner tube? A spoke?


If you're seriously denying that something as mundane as a bicycle, even 
if it's a single-speed, mass-market kids bike from 30 years ago is not 
a high-tech device whose continuing operation is heavily dependent on 
items whose creation involves a wide range of technical specialties and 
raw materials from all over the world, then you're deluding yourself.


> Mike


RRS
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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[John E. Perry]

John Andersen wrote:
> On Sunday 24 December 2006 21:14, John E. Perry wrote:
>> Just two problems:  first, I took others' advice again to switch from
>> Reiser to ext3fs,
> 
> Precisely who gave you that bum advice?
> There is no reason what so ever to switch filesystems on
> an existing partition which you had no desire to reformat anyway.
> 

OK, advice is too strong a word.  Since suse switched over to making
ext3 the default, rather than reiser3, there have been many posts on
this list telling about Reiser 3 corrupting data, sometimes recoverable,
sometimes not.  The message I got was not to change unless there was
good reason.

So, two weeks ago, I got what I see as good reason -- my / partition was
suddenly unavailable after a zen update.  fsck.reiser brought everything
back, but that's what finally made install 10.2 (which everyone is
saying is much better than 10.1 (my experince agrees).

So, when it offered to format the /, /var, and /home partitions, I let
it do / and /var.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[John E. Perry]

Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
> The Monday 2006-12-25 at 01:14 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:
> 
>> Just two problems:  first, I took others' advice again to switch from
>> Reiser to ext3fs, 
> 
> You choose that advice instead of the advice to the contrary.

Yes.  Practically no one gave an unqualified "yes" to reiser3.  The best
I saw was "don't change without reason".

> 
>> I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in
>> Reiser don't come to my system.
> 
> What bugs?

Whatever it is that causes partitions to collapse occasionally.  You
wouldn't call that a bug?

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[John E. Perry]

Anders Norrbring wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
> ...
>> What bugs?
> 
> 
> My highly unqualified guess would be the bugs in reiser4, which isn't a
> part of any respected distribution anyway.. :)

My (at least equally unqualified guess) is the bugs in reiser3 that
cause occasional partition corruption.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Jan Engelhardt]

On Dec 25 2006 11:16, Randall R Schulz wrote:
>On Monday 25 December 2006 07:19, Mathias Homann wrote:
>>
>> Now, imagine an internet where all users know what they're doing...
>
>How much do you know about the fabrication and / or the internal 
>function of these ordinary things or systems:
>
>- Automobiles

I'll answer: "Not much". (What do I care how things are designed?)
However, I _know_ how to use a car, getting from A to B.

I have almost no clue about the internal guts (C code) of Linux
Memory Management, yet I almost instanly wrote a BSD kernel driver.
The LDAP API is horribly undocumented, but maybe one day I manage to
get done what I want.

Have you ever tried the "Inferno OS"? Do so. Learn to play around
while not screwing up.

I have not driven a bus yet, but it's probably not fundamentally
different. To run a helicopter, I might need to do a lot more RTFM
and practice, but it can be mastered.

What people lack is methodology.


>If you happen to have access to The Science Channel 
>(), check out a program called "How it's 
>Made" 
>() 
>and you'll realize that specialization of knowledge in 
>fabricating "ordinary, everyday" objects and consumables has reached an 
>astonishing level.

howstuffworks.com also has lots of data.

>The point is, that it is _not_ up to users to posses in-depth knowledge 
>of a technology they're using. They cannot be ignorant of the 
>consequences of those technologies, lest we end up...oh, I don't know, 
>rendering the planet uninhabitable...but every little detail should not 
>be the responsibility of a technology consumer. That's the engineer's 
>job.

If my water supply is out of order, I gotta call some technician to fix 
it. Right. So should users when they are unable to use the
Internet.


-`J'
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[opensuse] SOAPpy doesnt compile on openSuse 10.2

[Irfan Habib]

Hi,

I'm trying to compile SOAPpy into my python installation in openSuse
10.2, however I'm getting this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "setup.py", line 8, in 
   from SOAPpy.version import __version__
 File "/home/irfan/Desktop/SOAPpy-0.12.0/SOAPpy/__init__.py", line 5,
in 
   from Client  import *
 File "/home/irfan/Desktop/SOAPpy-0.12.0/SOAPpy/Client.py", line 46
   from __future__ import nested_scopes
SyntaxError: from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the file


I've installed python-dev package, and successfully previously
compiled other packages.

Regards,
Irfan
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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.2 Laptop runs hot after resume

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


The Monday 2006-12-25 at 21:00 +0200, Andre Truter wrote:

> > | THe scheme does not change as far as I know.
> >
> > Your scheme may be the same, but after the resume I suppose it has to be
> > applied, and there was an script error reported. It might be that, or not.
> > If you can investigate it, try, if not, perhaps it's bugzilla time.
> >
> 
> I did try to change the scheme to Acourtic and then back to
> Performance, but that does not make any difference.

Well, if there is a bug somewhere, I wouldn't expect it to work, not for 
sure.


> This seems to be only a problem on my machine.  I have not heard any
> other nx6125 users having the same problem.

Perhaps there are not many users of that system reading this, or they are 
not so perceptive. It doesn't mean they don't have the problem.

Or they may be celebrating Christmas, you know ;-)

- -- 
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   Carlos E. R.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[John E. Perry]

James Knott wrote:
> John E. Perry wrote:
>> Just two problems:  first, I took others' advice again to switch from
>> Reiser to ext3fs, but my home directory is too big to get onto cd's or
>> dvd's, so I now have a system based on ext3fs except for the /home
>> directory, which is still Reiser.  I'm digging through the home
>> directories so I can divide it onto several dvds, but it's going to take
>> a while.
>>   
> Since you're blowing away most of the system anyway, why not just create
> a new ext3 partition and copy /home to it.  Then, when you install the
> new system, just mount that ext3 partition as /home.  You can use a
> rescue CD to create the new partition and copy /home.
> 

THat's a possibility, but I'm already nervous about monkeying with
partitions that have valuable data on them.  And the / crash last week
reinforces my nervousness.

> Incidentally, you may want to invest in an external USB hard drive. 
> They're cheap these days and can hold a lot of data.  I've got one here
> that's 160 GB.  It currently contains a couple of generations of backup
> from two computers.
> 

Hmm.  I blew off the tiny, hyperexpensive usb drives a couple of years
ago, but haven't looked at them recently.  That could work well.  I had
been reading up on nfs, thinking about connecting it to my laptop and
using it to back up my data.  I also made a quick try to get ftp
working, but didn't succeed immediately, and never got back to it.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


The Monday 2006-12-25 at 14:33 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

> > How big *is* your /home directory?! :-)
> 
> 32+G.  I have thousands of technical documents from 35+ years of
> engineering work, hundreds more from hobbies I've had over the years,
> and dozens more from various projects I've done on contract since I got
> laid off from my last few jobs.

Wow. And why do you not have all that on backup?

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   Carlos E. R.

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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[James Tremblay]

On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 10:13 -0800, J Sloan wrote:
> 
> Basil Chupin wrote:
> > Kenneth Schneider wrote:
> 
> >> Linux is used far and wide by the federal government for it to go away.
> > 
> > But Ken, your federal government must have used some other OS before
> > switching to Linux which means that 'they' are a fickle lot and will
> > switch from Linux at a drop of a hat. If they abandoned the other OS
> > then they will abandon Linux given the appropriate excuses.
> 
> Indeed, linux is used heavily in the server rooms, as it should be, but it
> isn't that hard to imagine a scenario where some convicted monopolist gives a
> government agency a sweetheart deal, applying pressure at several points:
> bribes for the decision makers, offers of free software and free support for 3
> years, reams of "studies" showing that microsoft servers are super duper, and
> that "everyone else is going that way". The hapless bureaucrat might well
> shrug and say "we're using 100% microsoft on the desktop, why not in the
> server room too".
Joe,
This already happened over ten years ago, Novell was on top, nothing
else existed except Unix and Linux. Microsoft swooped in by stealing
technology and innovating quicker,i.e. Microsoft gateway for Netware
networks, Microsoft Services for Netware, TCPIP adoption and Internet
Explorer.
I have already been on the underdog side of this by maintaining my
Novell allegiances and certifications. I am glad to have read this
thread because I won't keep myself poor next time, If I don't see a
64bit uptake in the Linux environment and I don't see Multimedia support
growth. I am going to go to south "think Mexico or South America", give
up on civilization taking a fare and equitable stance on computing, and
support Linux where it can still make a difference, the still developing
non\little Internet enabled, ever growing and excepting of change
atmosphere of the southern hemisphere( I'd go to China but I'm already
cold) . No insult intended to those countries! They are the last bastion
of growth, opportunity and prosperity.
James


> 
> But even a 10% linux presence on the desktop would be a powerful deterrent
> against such a checkmate. There really is a network effect, that the clever
> business people at microsoft understand well. When there are a lot of
> interdependencies, you can't just yank one piece out - but in the case where
> linux is isolated in the server room, it can be replaced, even though
> technically speaking, it should not be.
> 
> Read Linus statements about the importance of desktop Linux for a heads-up.
> 
> Joe

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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The Monday 2006-12-25 at 14:44 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

> So, two weeks ago, I got what I see as good reason -- my / partition was
> suddenly unavailable after a zen update.  fsck.reiser brought everything
> back, but that's what finally made install 10.2 (which everyone is
> saying is much better than 10.1 (my experince agrees).

And... didn't you ever have to fsck any ext3 partition to recover from 
some dissaster, sucessfully I hope? That's a normal thing for any 
filesystem. All can get corrupted - otherwise, the fsck utility would not 
even exist.

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   Carlos E. R.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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The Monday 2006-12-25 at 14:48 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

> > You choose that advice instead of the advice to the contrary.
> 
> Yes.  Practically no one gave an unqualified "yes" to reiser3.  The best
> I saw was "don't change without reason".

I don't see any reason to change. And I would say the same to anybody 
using similar reasons to change from ext3 to reiser or xfs or any 
combination whatsoever.

> >> I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in
> >> Reiser don't come to my system.
> > 
> > What bugs?
> 
> Whatever it is that causes partitions to collapse occasionally.  You
> wouldn't call that a bug?

No.

If it were a bug, you would be reporting it to bugzilla to have it solved.

Collapse, like what? In normal use?

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   Carlos E. R.
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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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The Monday 2006-12-25 at 15:08 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

> > Incidentally, you may want to invest in an external USB hard drive. 
> > They're cheap these days and can hold a lot of data.  I've got one here
> > that's 160 GB.  It currently contains a couple of generations of backup
> > from two computers.
> 
> Hmm.  I blew off the tiny, hyperexpensive usb drives a couple of years
> ago, but haven't looked at them recently.  That could work well.  I had
> been reading up on nfs, thinking about connecting it to my laptop and
> using it to back up my data.  I also made a quick try to get ftp
> working, but didn't succeed immediately, and never got back to it.

You need another computer to use ftp or nfs. An usb disk is just another 
"internal" disk on the system, but physically external. It is transparent 
and slower, and very handy.

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   Carlos E. R.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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The Monday 2006-12-25 at 16:05 -, John K Masters wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 17:00:14 +0100 (CET)
> "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

> > I'm afraid it can't go there. Even explanations on how to bypass those 
> > "limitations" can not go to the site where Novell is responsible and could 
> > be sued. At least, so I understood.
> > 
> I am afraid it's goodbye to the Suse mailing list for me. I have never 
> come across a more hostile list and I subscribe to Mutt, Postfix, 
> Procmail, Debian and CentOS. In future I'll work around my own problems 
> but I hesitate to post the solutions here due to the general attitude.

Hostile? In what way have I been hostile? :-OOO  :-/

Begone!

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   Carlos E. R.
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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.2 Laptop runs hot after resume

[Kenneth Schneider]

On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 20:57 +0200, Andre Truter wrote:
> On 12/25/06, Kenneth Schneider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 13:39 +0200, Andre Truter wrote:
> > > On 12/25/06, Andre Truter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yes, it seems that the fan is set to off after a hibernate.
> > > > /proc/acpi/fan/C263/state  changes from "status:  on" to "status:
> > > > off", but I have no idea what is causing it.  All powersave settings
> > > > are the same, and all acpi related modules are the same.
> >
> > What other items do you have in /proc/acpi/fan/? It appears that we are
> > looking at more then one fan here.
> 
> Yes, there are 4 fans (C260 - C263).  I only mentioned the last one as
> the others are always in an off state.
> 

OK. What is under C263, there may be something there to set and get the
fan back to normal operation. Sometimes you can echo 1 (or 0) into the
"file" to turn something on and off.

-- 
Ken Schneider
UNIX  since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE  since 1998

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[John E. Perry]

Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
> The Monday 2006-12-25 at 14:44 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:
> 
>> So, two weeks ago, I got what I see as good reason -- my / partition was
>> suddenly unavailable after a zen update.  fsck.reiser brought everything
>> back, but that's what finally made install 10.2 (which everyone is
>> saying is much better than 10.1 (my experince agrees).
> 
> And... didn't you ever have to fsck any ext3 partition to recover from 
> some dissaster, sucessfully I hope? 

No.  All my linux experience has been with ext2, and all my professional
experience has been with VMS, various RTOS's, MSDOS, Windows, and small
standalone systems.  I never had a crash that I couldn't identify as a
hardware problem, and I never dug deep enough into linux to learn all
the intricacies of file systems and such.  I only dumped Windows two
years ago because suse9.0 appeared to work well enough that I could
depend upon it for my contract work.  OpenOffice was the trigger -- it
meant I could deal with clients chained to Windows without being chained
myself.  So I didn't have to get XP and Office.

That's a normal thing for any
> filesystem. All can get corrupted - otherwise, the fsck utility would not 
> even exist.

Sure.  But it's rare enough with ext2 that I never had a problem that I
couldn't identify as a hardware disk crash, and several people on this
list complained of mysterious reiser3 partition corruption.  As I say, I
didn't take them too seriously until it happened to me.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[John E. Perry]

Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
> The Monday 2006-12-25 at 14:48 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:
> 
>>> You choose that advice instead of the advice to the contrary.
>> Yes.  Practically no one gave an unqualified "yes" to reiser3.  The best
>> I saw was "don't change without reason".
> 
> I don't see any reason to change. And I would say the same to anybody 
> using similar reasons to change from ext3 to reiser or xfs or any 
> combination whatsoever.
> 
 I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in
 Reiser don't come to my system.
>>> What bugs?
>> Whatever it is that causes partitions to collapse occasionally.  You
>> wouldn't call that a bug?
> 
> No.
> 
> If it were a bug, you would be reporting it to bugzilla to have it solved.
> 

If I had  something worthwhile to say, probably.  Who to I say "my root
partition suddenly became unavailable, and I had to restore it with
fsck.reiser from my rescue cd, and I have no idea what the problem was"?

> Collapse, like what? In normal use?

As I said before, after one of the zen updates, I rebooted, and the root
partition was corrupt.  fsck.reiser from the install cd printed hundreds
of lines during the two stages of repair, which I did not try to write
down, and which, as far as I know, are not preserved anywhere on the
system.

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Re: [opensuse] The latest on Hans Reiser, even though slightly OT.

[John]

James Knott wrote:

Randall R Schulz wrote:
  

On Sunday 24 December 2006 23:56, Fred A. Miller wrote:
  


On Monday December 25 2006 2:34 am, Randall R Schulz wrote:

  

On Sunday 24 December 2006 19:21, Fred A. Miller wrote:
  


http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72342-0.html

  

[snip]

Reading in Thunderbird (1.5.0.9 (20061207)), clicking the link and using 
Firefox (2.0.0.1), 'http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72342-0.html' 
works fine for me


J
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Re: [opensuse] ZenUpdater/installer/Smart v. Opensuse Updater v. Yast

[Billie Erin Walsh]

On 12/25/2006 Karl Agee wrote:
> Ok so the "default" update/software mechanism in
> opensuse 10.2 is ZMD/Smart.  So what is this thing I
> see in there called "opensuse updater"?  Does it run
> off the same database as ZMD  what about using
> Yast for software updates/installation?   I have used
> it to install some packages, seems to work just
> fine..

It keeps telling me there are 25 updates available. BUT, when I start it
it says there are none.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[Randall R Schulz]

On Monday 25 December 2006 12:30, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> The Monday 2006-12-25 at 15:08 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:
> > > Incidentally, you may want to invest in an external USB hard
> > > drive. They're cheap these days and can hold a lot of data.  I've
> > > got one here that's 160 GB.  It currently contains a couple of
> > > generations of backup from two computers.
> >
> > Hmm.  I blew off the tiny, hyperexpensive usb drives a couple of
> > years ago, but haven't looked at them recently.  That could work
> > well.  I had been reading up on nfs, thinking about connecting it
> > to my laptop and using it to back up my data.  I also made a quick
> > try to get ftp working, but didn't succeed immediately, and never
> > got back to it.
>
> You need another computer to use ftp or nfs. An usb disk is just
> another "internal" disk on the system, but physically external. It is
> transparent and slower, and very handy.

There are also now storage appliances that implement NFS and / or 
SMB/CIFS (accessed via Samba from Unix / Linux systems or via the 
built-in file sharing from Windows systems). These are basically 
stand-alone boxes with disks (often RAID arrays), a simple server 
computer and an Ethernet connection.

They're becoming pretty affordable on a per-gigabyte basis. They're 
really only an advantage when you've got multiple computers that need 
to access a single storage repository for some reason (shared 
publication or media libraries, e.g., or backups). To my knowledge, no 
other form of connectivity (FireWire, USB, eSATA, or SCSI) works to 
share a device among multiple computers, so you need the network and 
server component if you have multiple computers accessing the storage 
(and don't want to recable frequently).

I will be moving to a new home soon, and when I do, I think I'm going to 
add one of these to my setup, since I now have four separate computers 
all in active use whose backups I'd like to unify. Plus, I'd like to 
consolidate what is at the moment a very fragmented on-line library of 
technical papers, podcasts, ripped CDs, software downloads and other 
miscellany.


> --
> Cheers,
>Carlos E. R.


Randall Schulz
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Re: [opensuse] Re: [oS] The latest on Hans Reiser, even though slightly OT.

[jfweber]

On Mon December 25 2006 2:16 am, jdd scratched these words onto a 
coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
> C. Brouerius van Nidek a écrit :
> > On Monday 25 December 2006 10:21, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> >> http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72342-0.html
> >
> > And when are you comming back on the OT list?
>
> I think this is not OT. I don't follow OT list and HR
> problems impact us all... reiserfs users
>
> jdd

William DuBois is his attorney? Reiser is in real trouble. That guy is 
better at politics than actual defence bar work..  If there really is 
no money, I'm betting this guy looks to bring in another guy to do the 
scut work and actual defence, in a year or two when it comes to trial. 

And I *thought* there was a "gag order" in the case .. but that may be a 
misremembrance  of the facts. One must keep track of so many trials 
today that the details often become blurred.

If there isn't a gag order I'm guessing the next thing will be to go on 
telly , Barbara Walters or similar will do an hour interview w/ the 
accused, and meanwhile the lawyers get some cash. 



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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[John E. Perry]

Carlos E. R. wrote:
> ...
> You need another computer to use ftp or nfs. An usb disk is just another 
> "internal" disk on the system, but physically external. It is transparent 
> and slower, and very handy.
> 

I'm aware of all this.  The computer that has all the stuff is my
desktop;  the computer I want to use for backup is the new laptop
(already running 10.2 with ext3 filesystems).

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[John E. Perry]

Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> Wow. And why do you not have all that on backup?
> 

Much of it on the original cd's and floppies I used to transfer it from
my NASA and CEBAF computers over the years.  All the truly critical
stuff is backed up on new cd's.  Some I never bothered to back up
because I had downloaded it from the Internet.  Some of it I can still
find on the Net, some not.

And so on.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[John E. Perry]

Randall R Schulz wrote:
> ...
> 
> There are also now storage appliances that implement NFS and / or 
> SMB/CIFS (accessed via Samba from Unix / Linux systems or via the 
> built-in file sharing from Windows systems). These are basically 
> stand-alone boxes with disks (often RAID arrays), a simple server 
> computer and an Ethernet connection.

Be nice if I could afford it.  A semi-employed electronics engineer 60+
years old has to watch his spending pretty carefully between contracts.

> 
> ...Plus, I'd like to 
> consolidate what is at the moment a very fragmented on-line library of 
> technical papers, podcasts, ripped CDs, software downloads and other 
> miscellany.

Exactly what I'm facing.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[Randall R Schulz]

On Monday 25 December 2006 13:07, John E. Perry wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > ...
> > You need another computer to use ftp or nfs. An usb disk is just
> > another "internal" disk on the system, but physically external. It
> > is transparent and slower, and very handy.
>
> I'm aware of all this.  The computer that has all the stuff is my
> desktop;  the computer I want to use for backup is the new laptop
> (already running 10.2 with ext3 filesystems).

Do I understand that you want to back up _to_ a laptop? That seems 
rather odd. First of all, the disk in a laptop is far more likely to 
fail than one in a desktop system. Secondly, their capacity is still 
distinctly more limited than those of desktop or rack-mount systems, so 
using it as a backup might prove excessively limiting in terms of what 
or how much you can store. And you say this is a new laptop, so don't 
you want to actually use that new laptop _as_ a laptop? You know, 
portable computing and all that great stuff?


> --
>
> John Perry


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Re: [opensuse] 'Goes along with those mad at Novell/SUSE and leave.

[Fred A. Miller]

On Monday December 25 2006 5:10 am, Marcus Meissner wrote:
> > You can't win the desktop if you don't even try. Right now, few in the
> > Linux world are seriously trying. And time is running out.
> >
> > http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/world-domination-201.h
> >tml#id247970
>
> But this is not a Linux problem, it is more a problem of the current
> state in the software industry where everything multimedia interesting
> requires per-copy royalties, NDAs, closed source and so on.

Partially correct. Don't forget that MickySoft has and will continue to do ALL 
it can to shut Linux OUT of the desktop maket. Some have said they don't fear 
Linux, which is about as ignorant a position as one can take. They know full 
well how much money they have lost in the server market. They're scared 
spitless that the same thing will happen on the desktop, and they'are RIGHT, 
IF and ONLY IF the issues of DRM are eliminated and there's better hardware 
support. Applications will come along fine, if there other 2 are taken care 
of.

Fred

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[John Andersen]

On Monday 25 December 2006 11:48, John E. Perry wrote:
>> That's a normal thing for any filesystem. All can get corrupted -
>> otherwise, the fsck utility would not 
>> even exist.
>
> Sure.  But it's rare enough with ext2 that I never had a problem that I
> couldn't identify as a hardware disk crash

Then, I suggest you have had the benefit of a charmed exitance.  ;-)
My experience with ext2 has been maddening to say the least.  The mere
fact that the developers felt the need to bolt journaling on top of ext2 
should tell you something about its reliability.  Ext3 is nothing but ext2
(still as risky as ever) with a journal tagging along to clean up the ext2
mess.

My ext2 usage suggests ANY abnormal shutdown was likely to corrupt
it, and EVERY power failure was certain to.  It remains to be seen if ext3
can overcome this problem.

OTOH, i've never lost anything with reiser, crash, power fail, or kernel 
panic.  Over the years I've had to reiserfsck maybe 3 times on 6 or 8
machines. (this dates back to 8.x when I switched to reiser.).

The stated reasons for suse switching away from reiser had nothing to do
with reliability.  It was scalability and features for more complex indexing
and a small developer community.

> and several people on this 
> list complained of mysterious reiser3 partition corruption.

But, but, but...
You can't come to a mutual help list and then turn around a say
See, look at all the problems!!!  If you follow that theory you would
never run suse at all.  Or Ubuntu.  Or windows.  You'd get out
of computers completely.  When was the last time you saw a 
post about stuck abacus beads?  

People without problems don't post.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[Kai Ponte]

On Sunday 24 December 2006 14:05, Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:
> On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 14:35 -0500, James Knott wrote:
> > Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2006-12-24 at 10:49 -0800, Jay Smith wrote:
> > >> As for your music, it's the same problem with Ubuntu. In Dapper and
> > >> Edgy, you
> > >> have to download extra xine codecs off of their multiverse repository.
> > >> You can't
> > >> just get mp3 support out of the box. I think there is something larger
> > >> than
> > >> Microsoft and Novell going on with these formats and patents. I don't
> > >> think it's
> > >> rational to get mad at Novell over our misfortunes. It's just a Linux
> > >> thing, not
> > >> a Novell thing.
> > >
> > > I could be wrong, but I thought this had to do with copyright
> > > infringement of unlicensed music?
> >
> > Not all MP3's involve copyright infringement.  There are plenty of legal
> > ones to play.  Also as was previously ruled in a court (Betamax case?),
> > as long as there is legitimate use for a device, it cannot be banned
> > just because someone might use it illegally.
>
> I understand that. However, I was under the impression that's why mp3's
> don't play out-of-box.  Even though it's no big deal, I just had to
> update xine and amarok played no problem.

It isn't a copyright issue at all, but rather a patent one. Some idiot seems 
to think you can patent algorithms and therefore some German Company - 
Frauenhofer, I think - has a patent on the process to decode MPEG Layer 3 
files.  IIRC, the patent expires in about four years.

A ways back, some good samaritan came out with LAME - Lame Ain't an MP3 
Encoder - to decode MP3 files using a different process than Frauenhofer. 
Unfortunately, there's some question in backwards countries such as the USSA 
whereby the decoding algorithm is under the same patend as Frauenhofer's.

Hence, Novell doesn't want to get into any legal trouble.  

That's the reason to advocate OGG over MP3 whenever possible.



-- 
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www.perfectreign.com || www.4thedadz.com

a turn signal is a statement, not a request
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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[James Knott]

John E. Perry wrote:
> James Knott wrote:
>   
>> John E. Perry wrote:
>> 
>>> Just two problems:  first, I took others' advice again to switch from
>>> Reiser to ext3fs, but my home directory is too big to get onto cd's or
>>> dvd's, so I now have a system based on ext3fs except for the /home
>>> directory, which is still Reiser.  I'm digging through the home
>>> directories so I can divide it onto several dvds, but it's going to take
>>> a while.
>>>   
>>>   
>> Since you're blowing away most of the system anyway, why not just create
>> a new ext3 partition and copy /home to it.  Then, when you install the
>> new system, just mount that ext3 partition as /home.  You can use a
>> rescue CD to create the new partition and copy /home.
>>
>> 
>
> THat's a possibility, but I'm already nervous about monkeying with
> partitions that have valuable data on them.  And the / crash last week
> reinforces my nervousness.
>
>   
>> Incidentally, you may want to invest in an external USB hard drive. 
>> They're cheap these days and can hold a lot of data.  I've got one here
>> that's 160 GB.  It currently contains a couple of generations of backup
>> from two computers.
>>
>> 
>
> Hmm.  I blew off the tiny, hyperexpensive usb drives a couple of years
> ago, but haven't looked at them recently.  That could work well.  I had
> been reading up on nfs, thinking about connecting it to my laptop and
> using it to back up my data.  I also made a quick try to get ftp
> working, but didn't succeed immediately, and never got back to it.
>
>   

That 160 GB drive is a regular IDE hard drive in an external case with
USB 2 interface.  Some models also support Firewire or SATA.  Hard drive
space is cheap these days and those external cases aren't very expensive
either.  One benefit is that you can back up your data and then
physically remove it from the vicinity of your computer, so should you
have a fire or other disaster, your data can be easily recovered onto a
new system.



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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[Randall R Schulz]

On Monday 25 December 2006 14:04, Kai Ponte wrote:
> ...
>
> > I understand that. However, I was under the impression that's why
> > mp3's don't play out-of-box.  Even though it's no big deal, I just
> > had to update xine and amarok played no problem.
>
> It isn't a copyright issue at all, but rather a patent one. Some
> idiot seems to think you can patent algorithms and therefore some
> German Company - Frauenhofer, I think - has a patent on the process
> to decode MPEG Layer 3 files.  IIRC, the patent expires in about four
> years.

Yeah... As I already stated.

By the way, Fraunhofer developed the technology but Thomson Consumer 
Electronics holds the patent, now.


> A ways back, some good samaritan came out with LAME - Lame Ain't an
> MP3 Encoder - to decode MP3 files using a different process than
> Frauenhofer. Unfortunately, there's some question in backwards
> countries such as the USSA whereby the decoding algorithm is under
> the same patend as Frauenhofer's.
>
> Hence, Novell doesn't want to get into any legal trouble.
>
> That's the reason to advocate OGG over MP3 whenever possible.

There are some who believe that the patent in question is written in 
such a way that should they decide they want to (perhaps should they 
simply feel alternatives begin to threaten their royalty stream) that 
Thomson could make a tenable argument that other codec schemes, Vorbis, 
e.g. (Ogg is the name of a generic container file format; Vorbis is the 
name of the audio codec), are also infringing and hence no audio 
compression scheme is safe from the MP3 patent.


> --
> kai


Randall Schulz
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Re: [opensuse] Re: [oS] The latest on Hans Reiser, even though slightly OT.

[James Knott]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Mon December 25 2006 2:16 am, jdd scratched these words onto a 
> coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
>   
>> C. Brouerius van Nidek a écrit :
>> 
>>> On Monday 25 December 2006 10:21, Fred A. Miller wrote:
>>>   
 http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72342-0.html
 
>>> And when are you comming back on the OT list?
>>>   
>> I think this is not OT. I don't follow OT list and HR
>> problems impact us all... reiserfs users
>>
>> jdd
>> 
>
> William DuBois is his attorney? Reiser is in real trouble. That guy is 
> better at politics than actual defence bar work..  If there really is 
> no money, I'm betting this guy looks to bring in another guy to do the 
> scut work and actual defence, in a year or two when it comes to trial. 
>
> And I *thought* there was a "gag order" in the case .. but that may be a 
> misremembrance  of the facts. One must keep track of so many trials 
> today that the details often become blurred.
>
> If there isn't a gag order I'm guessing the next thing will be to go on 
> telly , Barbara Walters or similar will do an hour interview w/ the 
> accused, and meanwhile the lawyers get some cash. 
>   
Or will they have to wait until the book comes out?  ;-)


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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[James Knott]

John E. Perry wrote:
> Randall R Schulz wrote:
>   
>> ...
>>
>> There are also now storage appliances that implement NFS and / or 
>> SMB/CIFS (accessed via Samba from Unix / Linux systems or via the 
>> built-in file sharing from Windows systems). These are basically 
>> stand-alone boxes with disks (often RAID arrays), a simple server 
>> computer and an Ethernet connection.
>> 
>
> Be nice if I could afford it.  A semi-employed electronics engineer 60+
> years old has to watch his spending pretty carefully between contracts.
>
>   

Those external hard drives I mentioned are fairly cheap.  And you can
always fire up an old computer with Linux and use it as a "server", to
hold your backups.

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall

[Michael Leuty]

On 25/12/06, Niels Østergaard Kjær <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

As a newbie we have to fight the total lack of knowledge (it is X-mas
so we suppose it is only about linux and nothing else in life  :)), so
when Kai P writes:
quote:
As anyone can tell you, getting popular codes to play multimedia takes
about
five minutes of your time.
then as a  newbie I look for the howto recipe for  how do I do it in 5
minutes too, the links showed static pictures and no info on how to do it.


Take a look at http://www.softwareinreview.com/cms/content/view/60

I managed to follow the instructions, so I'm sure you can.

Mike

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Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse

[James Knott]

Randall R Schulz wrote:
> On Monday 25 December 2006 13:07, John E. Perry wrote:
>   
>> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> 
>>> ...
>>> You need another computer to use ftp or nfs. An usb disk is just
>>> another "internal" disk on the system, but physically external. It
>>> is transparent and slower, and very handy.
>>>   
>> I'm aware of all this.  The computer that has all the stuff is my
>> desktop;  the computer I want to use for backup is the new laptop
>> (already running 10.2 with ext3 filesystems).
>> 
>
> Do I understand that you want to back up _to_ a laptop? That seems 
> rather odd. First of all, the disk in a laptop is far more likely to 
> fail than one in a desktop system. Secondly, their capacity is still 
> distinctly more limited than those of desktop or rack-mount systems, so 
> using it as a backup might prove excessively limiting in terms of what 
> or how much you can store. And you say this is a new laptop, so don't 
> you want to actually use that new laptop _as_ a laptop? You know, 
> portable computing and all that great stuff?
>
>   
Besides, all that extra data will make the laptop too heavy to carry.  ;-)


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Re: [opensuse] Upgrade experiences 10.0 -> 10.2 ?

[Felix Miata]

On 2006/12/25 17:02 (GMT+0100) Lennart Börjeson apparently typed:

> Apart from that I discovered that smbfs is gone from the kernel and samba 
> share mounting has to to be done with mount.cifs instead of smbmount. Took 
> some googling...

smbfs is still in the 2.6.18 & 2.6.19 kernel sources, so if you get
tripped up by cifs brokenness, you can recompile with smbfs enabled.
-- 
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 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
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[opensuse] Boxed 10.2 orders

[Tom Patton]

Ok, now this is really wierd and disturbing...

I just received a second reply from Digital River, and it conflicts with
the first "backorder" excuse.

WHAT IS custom order about the OpenSuse10.2 boxed set
Is this a "US ONLY" release???

I guess it is impolite to "publish" another persons' email, but as they
were in response to my inquiry...here goes:
-

Dear Tom Patton,

The product that you have purchased is a made to order product.  This 
means when the order is placed, our manufacturing department starts the 
process of creating the product, this can take up to 7 business days to 
complete.  At that time the product will ship out and a tracking number 
will be emailed to you.  This will allow you to follow you packages 
progress on its way to your location.

Thank you for contacting Digital River for shopNovell. If you have any 
further questions or concerns, please "reply" to this e-mail.

Sincerely,
Brandon T.
Customer Service
Digital River for shopNovell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://shop.novell.com/custserv
1-877-4NOVELL
Case ID 1598



Original Message Follows:
-

Good morning, YiJing,

Does this mean that Opensuse10.2 has been an overwhelming success?  Can
you tell me how many packages you HAVE delivered here in the States?

Thanks for a reply, and Happy Holidays to you.

Tom


On Fri, 2006-12-22 at 06:08 -0600, Novell Customer Service wrote:
> Dear Thomas Patton,
> 
> We apologize for the inconvenience, unfortunately, the product that 
you 
> ordered is on backorder. Although we do not have an estimated arrival 
> date, we are working with the vendor to obtain more stock as soon as 
> possible. As soon as we receive your product it will be promptly 
shipped
> and you will receive a confirmation email at the address you supplied 
on
> your order. Rest assured that we will not charge your card until the 
> product ships. Your patience is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thank you for contacting Digital River for shopNovell. If you have any

> further questions or concerns, please "reply" to this e-mail.
> 
> Sincerely,
> YiJing C.
> Customer Service
> Digital River for shopNovell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://shop.novell.com/custserv
> 1-877-4NOVELL
> Case ID 1598
> 
> 
> 
> Original Message Follows:
> -
> 
> A shopper has emailed customer service with a request.
> 
> Selected reasons to contact customer service: ShippingQuestion - 
> ArrivalDate
> Shopper email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Shopper comments: You say it is available on 12/18, I ordered on 
12/12, 
> and the order still says in process.
> 
> When will it ship, and why the dang delay?  I fully expected to 
install 
> it this week while on vacation.  Not much hope now!
> 
> Tom in NM
> 
> If an associated requisition exists, then the following fields will be

> completed.
> Order ID: xxx
> Order Date: December 12, 2006
> Site ID: novell
> Site Name: Novell
> Shopper Name: Tom Patton
> 
> Products in order:
> Product SKU: 662644470917
> Product Name: openSUSE 10.2
> Qty Ordered: 1
> Amount: $59.95
> Shipment Tracking Numbers: 
> 
> 
> 
> 





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Re: [opensuse] Re: [oS] Re: [oS] The latest on Hans Reiser, even though slightly OT.

[Fred A. Miller]

On Monday December 25 2006 10:46 am, C. Brouerius van Nidek wrote:
> On Monday 25 December 2006 14:34, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> > On Sunday December 24 2006 11:59 pm, C. Brouerius van Nidek wrote:
> > > On Monday 25 December 2006 10:21, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> > > > http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72342-0.html
> > >
> > > And when are you comming back on the OT list?
> >
> > I've heard from a bunch of people who wonder where I've been. ;) I didn't
> > take myself off of it.got "dumpded" when the change over took place.
> > But, it's less work for me. :)
>
> Dear Fred,
> The OT list is empty without your input ;(
> Please come back :)

Thanks!

Fred

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Re: [opensuse] Boxed 10.2 orders

[Randall R Schulz]

On Monday 25 December 2006 15:21, Tom Patton wrote:
> Ok, now this is really wierd and disturbing...
>
> I just received a second reply from Digital River, and it conflicts
> with the first "backorder" excuse.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no longer any real reason to 
purchase the commercial release of Novell's SuSE Linux, right?

I want to support SuSE Linux development, but there has to be some kind 
of quid pro quo. As it stands, there simply is no up-side to purchasing 
the commercial release. We (North American purchasers) are forced to go 
through the Novell / Digital River (with whom I've had many successful 
and satisfactory transactions in the past) to acquire this release, 
implying there is not even the mere possibility of competitive pricing. 
Furthermore, the on-line repositories contain a superset of the package 
complement of the commercial product. From that perspective, it's 
simply foolish to purchase this release.

It really seems that Novell does not even want to generate $ale$! My 
best guess is that openSUSE is just a means of beta testing the 
Enterprise products. Frankly, I'm fine with that, but I surely hope 
they don't count on purchases of the SuSE Linux product, 'cause there's 
just no reason to buy it.

It's not that I'm going to switch distributions, but my 
several-year-long practice of buying a copy of every SuSE Linux 
distribution, including a couple I didn't end up installing, seems to 
be at an end.


As I said: Correct me if I'm wrong.


Randall Schulz
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