RE: Backups in a DW Environment
... with the caveat of somewhat complicating the recovery process. On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 13:49, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Ryan - I don't see where you received a direct answer to this question. To use RMAN to back up to tape you must license what Oracle terms a MML (media management library). However, you can use RMAN to back up to disk without any additional purchase. My sys admin evaluated the cost of the MML piece from Veritas for our size of server and said the additional disk area was cheaper, so we use RMAN to disk. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
I can understand the concern about ingesting large amount of data. We ingest about 200 GB a night. To get around the archiving problem we make a noarchivelog 'staging' instance, to run our loads. Then we use transportable tablespaces to move the data to production. Its alot quicker and easier to restore a backup copy transportable tablespace than it is to roll forward plus we dont have to generate massive amounts of redo. If you can do your loads in the middle of the night and very few production users are on then, you can put your staging instance right on your production server. We don't do this, but we have them all on the same netapp. If you do this, I recommend using 99 percent free and 1 percent used in order to 'compact' your tablespace. This keeps the tablespace as small as possible and decreases how long it takes to copy. This speeds up the load process(getting data to production), backups, and recovery. We were able to knock a 28 GB tablespace down to 12 GBs. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:04 PM Mohammed, Comments inline... on 1/9/04 2:24 PM, mkb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. On the contrary, not using archivelog mode is what makes less sense, thus justifying more careful consideration and justification. Archivelogging is the industry standard and makes complete sense in all but a few extreme cases. Have you considered what archive logging actually provides for you, and what is necessary to engineer the same effects on your own? Think it through... He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. The rebuild-then-reload method seems to make sense on paper, but it is the cause of extreme difficultly in actual practice. If you have not yet already implemented a very mature change-management procedure, to record all changes in the database, complete with all of the security to prevent it being bypassed, then you are in for a rough time. Robust change-management and ironclad security always makes sense, but the extra insurance of being able to recover every change using archivelogging makes sense also. Also, on the topic of BCV splits, one of the problems of using BCV splits (or file-system snapshots or similar snapshot schemes) is that, while it makes backups very easy, it does not make recovery any easier. This type of backup-centric thinking is very seductive. What is the purpose of the whole exercise? Taking backups? Or being recoverable? Oracle Recovery Manager (RMAN) is not named Backup Manager for a reason. RMAN is recovery-centric. It seems more complex on the backup end of things (it isn't), but it is undeniably easier on the recovery side of things. Try to work RMAN into your strategy at all times. It is worth the extra consideration. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. Any data warehouse that is shutdown, even for a few minutes, just to take a backup, has been engineered to fail. People keep data warehouses busy on a 24x7 basis just like any other system. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed Hope this helps... -Tim -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to:
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Would it be incorrect to assume that you never do inserts into newly loaded partitions, or updates that could increase the length of rows? 1 pctfree could be problematic in that case. Jared On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 05:04, Ryan wrote: I can understand the concern about ingesting large amount of data. We ingest about 200 GB a night. To get around the archiving problem we make a noarchivelog 'staging' instance, to run our loads. Then we use transportable tablespaces to move the data to production. Its alot quicker and easier to restore a backup copy transportable tablespace than it is to roll forward plus we dont have to generate massive amounts of redo. If you can do your loads in the middle of the night and very few production users are on then, you can put your staging instance right on your production server. We don't do this, but we have them all on the same netapp. If you do this, I recommend using 99 percent free and 1 percent used in order to 'compact' your tablespace. This keeps the tablespace as small as possible and decreases how long it takes to copy. This speeds up the load process(getting data to production), backups, and recovery. We were able to knock a 28 GB tablespace down to 12 GBs. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:04 PM Mohammed, Comments inline... on 1/9/04 2:24 PM, mkb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. On the contrary, not using archivelog mode is what makes less sense, thus justifying more careful consideration and justification. Archivelogging is the industry standard and makes complete sense in all but a few extreme cases. Have you considered what archive logging actually provides for you, and what is necessary to engineer the same effects on your own? Think it through... He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. The rebuild-then-reload method seems to make sense on paper, but it is the cause of extreme difficultly in actual practice. If you have not yet already implemented a very mature change-management procedure, to record all changes in the database, complete with all of the security to prevent it being bypassed, then you are in for a rough time. Robust change-management and ironclad security always makes sense, but the extra insurance of being able to recover every change using archivelogging makes sense also. Also, on the topic of BCV splits, one of the problems of using BCV splits (or file-system snapshots or similar snapshot schemes) is that, while it makes backups very easy, it does not make recovery any easier. This type of backup-centric thinking is very seductive. What is the purpose of the whole exercise? Taking backups? Or being recoverable? Oracle Recovery Manager (RMAN) is not named Backup Manager for a reason. RMAN is recovery-centric. It seems more complex on the backup end of things (it isn't), but it is undeniably easier on the recovery side of things. Try to work RMAN into your strategy at all times. It is worth the extra consideration. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. Any data warehouse that is shutdown, even for a few minutes, just to take a backup, has been engineered to fail. People keep data warehouses busy on a 24x7 basis just like any other system. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed Hope this helps... -Tim -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
its read only data in production. we monitor for chained rows on our staging environment and do table reorgs as necessary. Our staging server only ingests data over night, so we have all day for reorgs. Or we can just do them on weekends. We may do a handful every few months. We just run a script to check on it and get an email if chained rows is over 5%. No big deal. Archive log mode when you ingest tons of data is problematic. It just kills I/O. We do alot of full refreshes on tables every night. Its easier just to do a tablespace transport for backup and run dbverify on them. Faster to restore too. You keep two backup copies for each day. Then you just do a 'move' on one them to restore it. Very fast. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 1:59 PM Would it be incorrect to assume that you never do inserts into newly loaded partitions, or updates that could increase the length of rows? 1 pctfree could be problematic in that case. Jared On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 05:04, Ryan wrote: I can understand the concern about ingesting large amount of data. We ingest about 200 GB a night. To get around the archiving problem we make a noarchivelog 'staging' instance, to run our loads. Then we use transportable tablespaces to move the data to production. Its alot quicker and easier to restore a backup copy transportable tablespace than it is to roll forward plus we dont have to generate massive amounts of redo. If you can do your loads in the middle of the night and very few production users are on then, you can put your staging instance right on your production server. We don't do this, but we have them all on the same netapp. If you do this, I recommend using 99 percent free and 1 percent used in order to 'compact' your tablespace. This keeps the tablespace as small as possible and decreases how long it takes to copy. This speeds up the load process(getting data to production), backups, and recovery. We were able to knock a 28 GB tablespace down to 12 GBs. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:04 PM Mohammed, Comments inline... on 1/9/04 2:24 PM, mkb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. On the contrary, not using archivelog mode is what makes less sense, thus justifying more careful consideration and justification. Archivelogging is the industry standard and makes complete sense in all but a few extreme cases. Have you considered what archive logging actually provides for you, and what is necessary to engineer the same effects on your own? Think it through... He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. The rebuild-then-reload method seems to make sense on paper, but it is the cause of extreme difficultly in actual practice. If you have not yet already implemented a very mature change-management procedure, to record all changes in the database, complete with all of the security to prevent it being bypassed, then you are in for a rough time. Robust change-management and ironclad security always makes sense, but the extra insurance of being able to recover every change using archivelogging makes sense also. Also, on the topic of BCV splits, one of the problems of using BCV splits (or file-system snapshots or similar snapshot schemes) is that, while it makes backups very easy, it does not make recovery any easier. This type of backup-centric thinking is very seductive. What is the purpose of the whole exercise? Taking backups? Or being recoverable? Oracle Recovery Manager (RMAN) is not named Backup Manager for a reason. RMAN is recovery-centric. It seems more complex on the backup end of things (it isn't), but it is undeniably easier on the recovery side of things. Try to work RMAN into your strategy at all times. It is worth the extra consideration. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. Any data warehouse that is shutdown, even for a few minutes, just to take a backup, has been
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Gene - As a part of putting the database back in archivelog mode, I hope you take another backup. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net/ -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com/ San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net http://www.orafaq.net/ -- Author: Bobak, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com http://www.fatcity.com/ San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Ryan - I don't see where you received a direct answer to this question. To use RMAN to back up to tape you must license what Oracle terms a MML (media management library). However, you can use RMAN to back up to disk without any additional purchase. My sys admin evaluated the cost of the MML piece from Veritas for our size of server and said the additional disk area was cheaper, so we use RMAN to disk. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Would it be incorrect to assume that you never do inserts into newly loaded partitions, or updates that could increase the length of rows? 1 pctfree could be problematic in that case. Btw, if you're sure that rows won't grow, it use even pctfree 0 instead of 1. One thing you have to have in mind in this case, that there might not be enough room for allocating additional ITL entries in a block, so you should use INITRANS for setting minimum number of entries a block has. Tanel. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tanel Poder INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
On 2004.01.10 16:49, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Gene - As a part of putting the database back in archivelog mode, I hope you take another backup. Actually, taking backup should be a part of every major intervention on the database. Changing the database mode from noarchivelog to archivelog most certainly qualifies. You can never be too rich or have too many backups. My experience tells me that the backup you will need the most will always be the one you don't have. Murphy must have been a DBA. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Yeah, I configured RMAN on a system. Then the users didn't want me to turn off cold backups. My response was that a DBA wouldn't say there was such a thing as too many backups, so we do both. Specifically with noarchivelog/archivelog, if you try to recover using a backup from before you turned off archivelog, then you will have a gap in your log sequence and only be able to recover to the point you turned off archivelog. I know that you know that Mladen, but I thought maybe some lurker on the list might not. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 6:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On 2004.01.10 16:49, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Gene - As a part of putting the database back in archivelog mode, I hope you take another backup. Actually, taking backup should be a part of every major intervention on the database. Changing the database mode from noarchivelog to archivelog most certainly qualifies. You can never be too rich or have too many backups. My experience tells me that the backup you will need the most will always be the one you don't have. Murphy must have been a DBA. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Mohammed - When is this database updated? Once/week? Daily? Continuously? If there is a failure, what is the consequence of returning to the last backup? How much critical data will be lost? How will recovery times be affected with/without archive logging? How much does your sys admin know about Oracle? We have a data warehouse that gets updated weekly. The day after the load we perform a cold backup. We don't use archive logging. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 3:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Well, recovery might be just a wee bit faster then re-loading few gigs of data using SQL. Also, developers on that DW might lose any work that they haven't done the night before. This is a production database, which means that it absolutely must be in archive log mode. One of the big reasons is that you'll have to answer the question why isn't the production DW in the archive log mode whenever you encounter an oracle consultant. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
why do you do a cold backup? why not just use RMAN? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:34 PM Mohammed - When is this database updated? Once/week? Daily? Continuously? If there is a failure, what is the consequence of returning to the last backup? How much critical data will be lost? How will recovery times be affected with/without archive logging? How much does your sys admin know about Oracle? We have a data warehouse that gets updated weekly. The day after the load we perform a cold backup. We don't use archive logging. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 3:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Bobak, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Hi Dennis, On average, we load data weekly. The load time is no more 40 minutes to an hour. Like I said, we're small at the moment. We're at about 70GB which includes temp and undo and growing at the rate of about 2GB a month. Consequence of a failure has been discussed with the developers and users. Developers say that they can live without the DW for one business day. The users don't access the database directly so they would not be affected. As far as critical data being lost, well if we loose the database and we have BCVs in place, we can just reload any data that is missing from the flat files, so no biggie there. Also, I take an export of the entire database after a load. As far as how much the sys admin knows about Oracle well... knows enough from a sys admin perspective that we can converse intelligently but I suspect still holds to the old myths about Oracle that have been discussed on this list. Appreciate your input. mohammed --- DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mohammed - When is this database updated? Once/week? Daily? Continuously? If there is a failure, what is the consequence of returning to the last backup? How much critical data will be lost? How will recovery times be affected with/without archive logging? How much does your sys admin know about Oracle? We have a data warehouse that gets updated weekly. The day after the load we perform a cold backup. We don't use archive logging. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 3:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Yes but... The developers use Cognos tools for all their development. Nobody writes any PL/SQL, triggers etc. So again, all that the developers might lose is data that they loaded which can be easily recovered by re-running the ETL process. What I'm trying to say is that the environment from the database perpective is fairly static except when data is loaded. No users accessing directly, deveopers using third party tools for development and data changing slowly. Thanks for the input. mohammed --- Mladen Gogala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, recovery might be just a wee bit faster then re-loading few gigs of data using SQL. Also, developers on that DW might lose any work that they haven't done the night before. This is a production database, which means that it absolutely must be in archive log mode. One of the big reasons is that you'll have to answer the question why isn't the production DW in the archive log mode whenever you encounter an oracle consultant. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). GenePS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelogmode. Period. End of story.Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good.Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set ofrequirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might evenconvince me...but I doubt it...;-)-MarkMark J. BobakOracle DBAProQuest CompanyAnn Arbor, MI"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, anda sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is." --Unknown-Original Message-Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LHave a question on backups in a DW environment.Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projectedto grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying toconvince the sys admin that I don't want archivelogging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense.He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to(and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants toturn on archiving. My thinking is why turn onarchiving if I can restore my DB from last night'sBCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading anydata that was loaded after the BCV split.Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before theBCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by usersfor ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access thedatabase and build cubes using Cognos tools. Usersaccess these and not the DB directly.So, again I don't see the need for archive logging.Any thoughts?mohammed__Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakeshttp://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: Bobak, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Bobak, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Bobak, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
BCV = Business Continuity Volume On 2004.01.09 19:39, Ryan wrote: I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Hi Ryan, Not for RMAN. I meant a license for Veritas or Legato. See Mladen's reply re: BCV (basically EMC takes a snapshot of the mount points onto corresponding mount points i.e. a 1-to-1 mapping for each mount point onto a BCV mount point) Hope that clears up the confusion. mohammed --- Ryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
The license is for the software that interfaces Veritas NetBackup to RMAN. RMAN has an API and NBU has an API. The intersection of the 2 will set you back about $1500 US IIRC. Jared Ryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2004 04:39 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Backups in a DW Environment I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Anyone look at the 10g new features? Is this one of things Oracle is claiming they can eliminate with 10g? So you dont need this license? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 8:29 PM Subject: Re: Backups in a DW Environment The license is for the software that interfaces Veritas NetBackup to RMAN. RMAN has an API and NBU has an API. The intersection of the 2 will set you back about $1500 US IIRC.Jared "Ryan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2004 04:39 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Backups in a DW EnvironmentI never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Cansomeone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you moremoney to do use another product with veriftas and legato?What is a 'BCV'?- Original Message -To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that "ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS". Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is." --Unknown-Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LHave a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Mohammed, Comments inline... on 1/9/04 2:24 PM, mkb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. On the contrary, not using archivelog mode is what makes less sense, thus justifying more careful consideration and justification. Archivelogging is the industry standard and makes complete sense in all but a few extreme cases. Have you considered what archive logging actually provides for you, and what is necessary to engineer the same effects on your own? Think it through... He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. The rebuild-then-reload method seems to make sense on paper, but it is the cause of extreme difficultly in actual practice. If you have not yet already implemented a very mature change-management procedure, to record all changes in the database, complete with all of the security to prevent it being bypassed, then you are in for a rough time. Robust change-management and ironclad security always makes sense, but the extra insurance of being able to recover every change using archivelogging makes sense also. Also, on the topic of BCV splits, one of the problems of using BCV splits (or file-system snapshots or similar snapshot schemes) is that, while it makes backups very easy, it does not make recovery any easier. This type of backup-centric thinking is very seductive. What is the purpose of the whole exercise? Taking backups? Or being recoverable? Oracle Recovery Manager (RMAN) is not named Backup Manager for a reason. RMAN is recovery-centric. It seems more complex on the backup end of things (it isn't), but it is undeniably easier on the recovery side of things. Try to work RMAN into your strategy at all times. It is worth the extra consideration. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. Any data warehouse that is shutdown, even for a few minutes, just to take a backup, has been engineered to fail. People keep data warehouses busy on a 24x7 basis just like any other system. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed Hope this helps... -Tim -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Let me explain, because I have a little bit of experience with it. a) BCV's are replicated disks which are synchronized using TimeFinder. and then separated from the source. The phrase splitting BCV's means producing an exact disk copy of the original disks, similarly to what dd can do. It's an ideal way to make a copy of an instance. Last time I checked, BCV's weren't supported by RMAN (it may have changed now), so the tablespaces had to be put into backup mode or (8i and after) the database had to be suspended (very litle known trick is ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND, which abruptly ceases all the I/O in the database, without shutting it down). b) RMAN is an oracle tool which works in conjunction with Legato (EMC), NetBackup(Veritas), Tivoli, Alexandria or SyncSort backups. RMAN doesn't know how to write to tape and needs a 3rd party backup to do so. The part that Veritas, Legato or IBM will charge you for is called libobk.so and is an interface which enables RMAN to work with their particular tool. RMAN is a very good tool which can do many things in a very easy way and without generating a TB of redo archives for the duration of hot backup mode. Robert Freeman's book is definitely the best source for anything RMAN around. On 2004.01.09 20:29, mkb wrote: Hi Ryan, Not for RMAN. I meant a license for Veritas or Legato. See Mladen's reply re: BCV (basically EMC takes a snapshot of the mount points onto corresponding mount points i.e. a 1-to-1 mapping for each mount point onto a BCV mount point) Hope that clears up the confusion. mohammed --- Ryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS. Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is. --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
AW: was re Backups in a SAN with heterogenous environments
{I can't remember the exact title of my previous email --
it is on my home PC and I am at work right now}
I had asked about options for backups when running
heterogenous environments [eg HP and Sun Database
Servers with DBs on FileSystems] in a single SAN.
We had a meeting with Sun and their local dealer
and Hitachi wich actually suppies the HDS 9XXX
storage systems to Sun. I identified these options
at the end of the meetings
1. Tape library connected to both Sun and HP servers
[SCSI connection]
2. Add a backup server for each OS in to the SAN
[e.g. one backup server for Sun file-systems, another
for HP file-systems]
3. Backup over the Network [standard Veritas Netbackup
client and server]
4. Tape library directly on the SAN switch via FC
and using Veritas NetBackup Shared Storage Option
to share the tape library and yet do LAN-free backups.
My thanks to all those who replied earlier.
Hemant K Chitale
http://hkchital.tripod.com
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Hemant K Chitale
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Backups
Tim, et.al, We use rman on 8.0.6.3 databases. One of our duvelopers was trying to delete records from a table and her query deleted everything from the table. This caused the application to fail and a point-in_time recovery was nessessary. I was given a time of 11:00AM. I had recovered the database until 11:00AM and before opening the database with resetlogs, I asked if the time was correct. After several minutes of discussion with all concerned, it was decided that actually we needed to recovery until 9:00AM. I changed the until time in the restore script, restored the database until 9:00AM and recovered it and opened it resetlogs. I had no problem with this. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 5:08 PM The one situation where a cold backup can be considered necessary is following an OPEN RESETLOGS. If you have a no data loss requirement and you are in ARCHIVELOG mode, then there is a window following an OPEN RESETLOGS where, if the media crashes prior to completing a hot backup, you could be unrecoverable. File that one under a bad day... It is not a hard-and-fast requirement however, as there is a fairly narrow set of circumstances (available since v7.3.3) where it is possible to recover using backups and archivelogs generated prior to an OPEN RESETLOGS and then continue the roll-forward using archivelogs generated after the RESETLOGS, but there several gotchas that can mess that up. It would be a gamble to rely on pulling that rabbit out of the hat... If you ever find yourself entering the command ALTER DATABASE OPEN RESETLOGS on a database that you *really* care about (should be recognized by the same shallow-breathing sweaty-palm symptoms you get when you say, ...now, just hand the gun to me, slowly...), then please get an immediate cold backup before opening the database to users. You may have to argue for it, but be sure to leave time for it when folks are asking, When will the database be back? ...other than that situation, there is no advantage of a cold backup over a hot backup; just my $0.02... - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:33 AM Cold backup is very good because I don't have to monitor database during the cold backup, no objects will run out of space and I can enjoy a peaceful time without any chance for my beeper to go off. You must admit that a cold backup cannot guarantee you that. Unfortunately, my bosses somehow got the curious idea that they have paid big bucks for all those HP 9000 to work and not to sit idle. They even calculated a downtime cost per hour for each critical system and they are extremely reluctant to have them down for extended periods of time (1.1 TB database cannot be backed up in minutes, even with Asymmetrix). That is why they bought me a toy called OPS and why there are policies and procedures about who and how gets things in the production database. I would love to do cold backup every day from 8 PM until 7 AM and during Sunday football games but it is not very likely that my wish will come true. Starlight, starbright, first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I might have the wish I wish tonight. That is my best chance to get cold backups every day. On 2002.10.04 01:38 Jared Still wrote: OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
Re: Backups
I didn't say that you would have a problem during OPEN RESETLOGS. A problem might occur after the OPEN RESETLOGS if you did not grab an immediate cold backup... If you just open the database to end-users and transactions immediately after the OPEN RESETLOGS, then you have a period when it would be unrecoverable should another media failure or corruption occur before a full backup can be taken. That is, before you can complete a full backup of the database (either hot or cold), all of the archivelogs generated and saved are *useless*. After all, what good is an archivelog without a valid restored backup to overlay? That is the reason for the recommendation to get a cold backup after an OPEN RESETLOGS; so that you can be absolutely certain that any transaction committed afterwards can be recovered in the event of media failure... --- There is a certain set of circumstances where the sun, the moon, and the stars align where you can restore from backups taken *prior* to the OPEN RESETLOGS and roll forward archivelogs generated after the backup through the OPEN RESETLOGS to the point-in-time of failure, but the requirements include: * database must be version 7.3.3 or higher, so you can save the SCN of the OPEN RESETLOGS logged to the alert.log file * must have the SCN of the OPEN RESETLOGS available * the backup taken prior to the resetlogs (used in the restore) must have been a hot backup * the database instance must not have been shutdown between that hot backup and the events leading to the OPEN RESETLOGS If any one of these conditions is false, then grabbing a cold backup after an OPEN RESETLOGS is the only way to guarantee that all transactions committed after the OPEN RESETLOGS can be recovered if media failure occurs again... - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 8:13 AM Tim, et.al, We use rman on 8.0.6.3 databases. One of our duvelopers was trying to delete records from a table and her query deleted everything from the table. This caused the application to fail and a point-in_time recovery was nessessary. I was given a time of 11:00AM. I had recovered the database until 11:00AM and before opening the database with resetlogs, I asked if the time was correct. After several minutes of discussion with all concerned, it was decided that actually we needed to recovery until 9:00AM. I changed the until time in the restore script, restored the database until 9:00AM and recovered it and opened it resetlogs. I had no problem with this. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 5:08 PM The one situation where a cold backup can be considered necessary is following an OPEN RESETLOGS. If you have a no data loss requirement and you are in ARCHIVELOG mode, then there is a window following an OPEN RESETLOGS where, if the media crashes prior to completing a hot backup, you could be unrecoverable. File that one under a bad day... It is not a hard-and-fast requirement however, as there is a fairly narrow set of circumstances (available since v7.3.3) where it is possible to recover using backups and archivelogs generated prior to an OPEN RESETLOGS and then continue the roll-forward using archivelogs generated after the RESETLOGS, but there several gotchas that can mess that up. It would be a gamble to rely on pulling that rabbit out of the hat... If you ever find yourself entering the command ALTER DATABASE OPEN RESETLOGS on a database that you *really* care about (should be recognized by the same shallow-breathing sweaty-palm symptoms you get when you say, ...now, just hand the gun to me, slowly...), then please get an immediate cold backup before opening the database to users. You may have to argue for it, but be sure to leave time for it when folks are asking, When will the database be back? ..other than that situation, there is no advantage of a cold backup over a hot backup; just my $0.02... - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:33 AM Cold backup is very good because I don't have to monitor database during the cold backup, no objects will run out of space and I can enjoy a peaceful time without any chance for my beeper to go off. You must admit that a cold backup cannot guarantee you that. Unfortunately, my bosses somehow got the curious idea that they have paid big bucks for all those HP 9000 to work and not to sit idle. They even calculated a downtime cost per hour for each critical system and they are extremely reluctant to have them down for extended periods of time (1.1 TB database cannot be backed up in minutes, even with Asymmetrix). That is why they bought me a toy called OPS and why there are policies and procedures about who and how gets things in
RE: Backups
Isn't the object point in time recovery called LogMiner? :) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 5:11 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L You are lucky to have all your databases in archivelog mode. We have large datawarehouses here, where business is quite acceptable to a recovery from a cold backup taken 3 months earlier. RMAN is goood, but waiting for Oracle to come out with an object point in time recovery, before we can completely do away with exports. Not that it cannot be done using RMAN, but with limited resources at our disposal, a logical backup and restore is much easier. Having said that, we use RMAN for 90% of our databases, and HP omniback as the media manager. Raj Mercadante, Thomas F To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: ate.ny.us Subject: RE: Backups Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] October 03, 2002 04:17 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built
RE: Backups
Dennis, I guess you just gotta have faith after a complete test of various types of recovery that the software works. Once it passes all your tests, and you are comfortable that it orks as advertised, it's just a matter of going for it. I am also convinced that Oracle support is able to help with Rman recovery as long as you use the software in an approved manner. This is one reason that I always stress to people on this list to use Oracle as the documentation says to use it - like the discussion the other day about putting indexes on SYS objects. Stuff like this gets you in trouble sooner or later. Cold backups are a good thing for the installed software. Stuff like the OS system files, Oracle software etc. But, in my view, we (as DBA's) just don't have the luxury anymore of taking a database offline for a backup - the costs (both in real $$'s and politically) are just too high. Especially when we are provided tools that are reliable. And Rman has entered this category. Just my 2 cents. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:08 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Ruth, Tom, or anyone So what is the final checklist before you take a deep breath and stop cold backups. I have successfully run a disaster recovery test, but after so many years of the comfort of a cold to go back to, it sorta takes you back. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name
Re: Backups
One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a reference? On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote: OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR m???m [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). --
Re: Backups
lol, OK my reasons for occasional cold backups. As a prior sysadmin, I prefer single user mode full filesystem backups (i.e. databases shut down) prior to any upgrade whether its an application, database, or operating system. There are benefits of cold over hot backups (of course this assumes you have the luxury to take a database offline): 1) Archive logs not needed. 2) No need to be concerned which databases are in archivelog mode. 3) Easier to backup and restore, even the sysadmin can do it :), i.e. no DBA required, no database recovery. OS utilities can be used for backup/restore. 4) Old habits are hard to break :). Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/02 01:38AM OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
Re: Backups
I never heard that, and I never do them, except my recovery catalog database which I can shut down. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:03 AM One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a reference? On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote: OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR m???m [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
Re: Backups
Oracle 6 and prior releases required cold backups. Hot backups became available in version 7. The trend appears RMAN is the new way! Still waiting for Robert Freeman's new book :). Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/02 10:03AM One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a reference? On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote: OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR m???m [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling
RE: Backups
Not mentioning that there is usually hot in Florida, so cold is good. Saying that, I wonder how many people would go into software upgrade or a major change without a full cold backup. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:28 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L lol, OK my reasons for occasional cold backups. As a prior sysadmin, I prefer single user mode full filesystem backups (i.e. databases shut down) prior to any upgrade whether its an application, database, or operating system. There are benefits of cold over hot backups (of course this assumes you have the luxury to take a database offline): 1) Archive logs not needed. 2) No need to be concerned which databases are in archivelog mode. 3) Easier to backup and restore, even the sysadmin can do it :), i.e. no DBA required, no database recovery. OS utilities can be used for backup/restore. 4) Old habits are hard to break :). Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/02 01:38AM OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
RE: Backups
I agree with you Ruth. Ray, this may be something that your local DBA read in an older manual someplace. Have your DBA start reading about Rman. If he/she needs to see it in a book, it might change his/her mind. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I never heard that, and I never do them, except my recovery catalog database which I can shut down. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:03 AM One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a reference? On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote: OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR m???m [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle
RE: Backups
I believe it shows up in some upgrade documentation. I know our Oracle rep recommended it. And I'll admit that I did a cold backup before my upgrade rather than hot just because it's a little easier to recover from if a problem arises (I just padded the downtime for my upgrade to include the cold backup time). Jay Miller -Original Message- Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:03 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a reference? On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote: OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR m???m [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
Re: Backups
I would do a cold backup of the Oracle executables and application stuff but I would do an rman level 0 for the database(s). Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:18 PM Not mentioning that there is usually hot in Florida, so cold is good. Saying that, I wonder how many people would go into software upgrade or a major change without a full cold backup. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:28 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L lol, OK my reasons for occasional cold backups. As a prior sysadmin, I prefer single user mode full filesystem backups (i.e. databases shut down) prior to any upgrade whether its an application, database, or operating system. There are benefits of cold over hot backups (of course this assumes you have the luxury to take a database offline): 1) Archive logs not needed. 2) No need to be concerned which databases are in archivelog mode. 3) Easier to backup and restore, even the sysadmin can do it :), i.e. no DBA required, no database recovery. OS utilities can be used for backup/restore. 4) Old habits are hard to break :). Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/02 01:38AM OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use
Re: Backups
4) Old habits are hard to break :). Ah, there we have it. ;) Jared Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/2002 07:28 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Backups lol, OK my reasons for occasional cold backups. As a prior sysadmin, I prefer single user mode full filesystem backups (i.e. databases shut down) prior to any upgrade whether its an application, database, or operating system. There are benefits of cold over hot backups (of course this assumes you have the luxury to take a database offline): 1) Archive logs not needed. 2) No need to be concerned which databases are in archivelog mode. 3) Easier to backup and restore, even the sysadmin can do it :), i.e. no DBA required, no database recovery. OS utilities can be used for backup/restore. 4) Old habits are hard to break :). Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/02 01:38AM OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn
Re: Backups
gentle correction: oracle6 had hot backup capability... - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:48 AM Oracle 6 and prior releases required cold backups. Hot backups became available in version 7. The trend appears RMAN is the new way! Still waiting for Robert Freeman's new book :). Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/02 10:03AM One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a reference? On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote: OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR m???m [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
Re: Backups
The one situation where a cold backup can be considered necessary is following an OPEN RESETLOGS. If you have a no data loss requirement and you are in ARCHIVELOG mode, then there is a window following an OPEN RESETLOGS where, if the media crashes prior to completing a hot backup, you could be unrecoverable. File that one under a bad day... It is not a hard-and-fast requirement however, as there is a fairly narrow set of circumstances (available since v7.3.3) where it is possible to recover using backups and archivelogs generated prior to an OPEN RESETLOGS and then continue the roll-forward using archivelogs generated after the RESETLOGS, but there several gotchas that can mess that up. It would be a gamble to rely on pulling that rabbit out of the hat... If you ever find yourself entering the command ALTER DATABASE OPEN RESETLOGS on a database that you *really* care about (should be recognized by the same shallow-breathing sweaty-palm symptoms you get when you say, ...now, just hand the gun to me, slowly...), then please get an immediate cold backup before opening the database to users. You may have to argue for it, but be sure to leave time for it when folks are asking, When will the database be back? ...other than that situation, there is no advantage of a cold backup over a hot backup; just my $0.02... - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:33 AM Cold backup is very good because I don't have to monitor database during the cold backup, no objects will run out of space and I can enjoy a peaceful time without any chance for my beeper to go off. You must admit that a cold backup cannot guarantee you that. Unfortunately, my bosses somehow got the curious idea that they have paid big bucks for all those HP 9000 to work and not to sit idle. They even calculated a downtime cost per hour for each critical system and they are extremely reluctant to have them down for extended periods of time (1.1 TB database cannot be backed up in minutes, even with Asymmetrix). That is why they bought me a toy called OPS and why there are policies and procedures about who and how gets things in the production database. I would love to do cold backup every day from 8 PM until 7 AM and during Sunday football games but it is not very likely that my wish will come true. Starlight, starbright, first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I might have the wish I wish tonight. That is my best chance to get cold backups every day. On 2002.10.04 01:38 Jared Still wrote: OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd.
Re: Backups
After a RESETLOGS is one I had in mind. I understand that you must do cold backups on Oracle Directory Server repositories (LDAP) Backing up RMAN catalogs cold is not a bad idea either. Jared Tim Gorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/2002 02:08 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Backups The one situation where a cold backup can be considered necessary is following an OPEN RESETLOGS. If you have a no data loss requirement and you are in ARCHIVELOG mode, then there is a window following an OPEN RESETLOGS where, if the media crashes prior to completing a hot backup, you could be unrecoverable. File that one under a bad day... It is not a hard-and-fast requirement however, as there is a fairly narrow set of circumstances (available since v7.3.3) where it is possible to recover using backups and archivelogs generated prior to an OPEN RESETLOGS and then continue the roll-forward using archivelogs generated after the RESETLOGS, but there several gotchas that can mess that up. It would be a gamble to rely on pulling that rabbit out of the hat... If you ever find yourself entering the command ALTER DATABASE OPEN RESETLOGS on a database that you *really* care about (should be recognized by the same shallow-breathing sweaty-palm symptoms you get when you say, ...now, just hand the gun to me, slowly...), then please get an immediate cold backup before opening the database to users. You may have to argue for it, but be sure to leave time for it when folks are asking, When will the database be back? ...other than that situation, there is no advantage of a cold backup over a hot backup; just my $0.02... - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:33 AM Cold backup is very good because I don't have to monitor database during the cold backup, no objects will run out of space and I can enjoy a peaceful time without any chance for my beeper to go off. You must admit that a cold backup cannot guarantee you that. Unfortunately, my bosses somehow got the curious idea that they have paid big bucks for all those HP 9000 to work and not to sit idle. They even calculated a downtime cost per hour for each critical system and they are extremely reluctant to have them down for extended periods of time (1.1 TB database cannot be backed up in minutes, even with Asymmetrix). That is why they bought me a toy called OPS and why there are policies and procedures about who and how gets things in the production database. I would love to do cold backup every day from 8 PM until 7 AM and during Sunday football games but it is not very likely that my wish will come true. Starlight, starbright, first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I might have the wish I wish tonight. That is my best chance to get cold backups every day. On 2002.10.04 01:38 Jared Still wrote: OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients
Re: Backups
I stand corrected. Guess I shouldn't rely on memory, it keeps failing on those DBA sessions :) Just don't remember anyone doing hot backups during Oracle 6. Thanks, Gene PS. (DBA=DrinkBeerAgain) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/02 16:23 PM gentle correction: oracle6 had hot backup capability... - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:48 AM Oracle 6 and prior releases required cold backups. Hot backups became available in version 7. The trend appears RMAN is the new way! Still waiting for Robert Freeman's new book :). Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/02 10:03AM One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a reference? On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote: OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups ae a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed wen you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR m???m [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
Re: Backups
I stand corrected. Guess I shouldn't rely on memory, it keeps failing on those DBA sessions :) Just don't remember anyone doing hot backups during Oracle 6. Thanks, Gene PS. (DBA=DrinkBeerAgain) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/02 16:23 PM gentle correction: oracle6 had hot backup capability... - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:48 AM Oracle 6 and prior releases required cold backups. Hot backups became available in version 7. The trend appears RMAN is the new way! Still waiting for Robert Freeman's new book :). Gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/02 10:03AM One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a reference? On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote: OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups ae a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed wen you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR m???m [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
Re: Backups
Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups
If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups
I disagree. ALTER TABLESPACE tblsp_name BEGIN BACKUP, and you can copy the datafiles of that tablespace using OS commands and use them for restore Regards Naveen -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 7:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Naveen Nahata INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups
This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: John Weatherman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups
I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: John Weatherman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
RE: Backups
Title: RE: Backups It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in time operations. -Original Message- From: John Weatherman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Backups This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: John Weatherman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like
Re: Backups
Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Maili ng list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: John Weatherman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
RE: RE: Backups
Title: RE: RE: Backups Yes I personally run Veritas Netbackup for both cold and RMAN. A fiber SAN has its added benefits as well =). I have never really explored the implications of these other utilities. My head filled with many distasteful visuals. Yes, I agree with you and I realize that I am spoiled knocking on wood. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:38 PM To: Markham; Richard; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:RE: Backups I've used cpio, dd, and fbackup to do hot and cold backups before, but never again. With those utilities the burden of keeping track of what is on which tape rests with you and normally a stubby pencil pad of paper because you know what won't be available when you need to do a recovery. They do work be assured, but the administrative overhead is just not worth it anymore, even for a small shop. Get a copy of Veritas or OmniBack or some other software package that does library management for you and preferably integrates with RMAN. Life can be so much easier!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Subject: RE: Backups Author: Markham; Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/3/2002 10:03 AM It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in time operations. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL
Re: Backups
I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Maili ng list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: John Weatherman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the
Re: Backups
But of course, rman... backup archivelogs delete. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 2:28 PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Maili ng list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: John Weatherman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or
RE: Backups
Title: RE: Backups Lots of folks here on the list canexplain it, but really you would get more from the Oracle Backup and Recovery Manual. In short, you place your tablespaces in 'backup mode', one TS at a time is the prefered method. You backup the datafiles associated with the Tablespaces in backup mode, using cp or tar or dd or whatever you prefer. You end backup mode, perform a log switch, and backup all archived redo logs created during your backup. You do this, and you can restore your backup, and Oracle will, for the purposes of this response, magically recover your database. Steve McClure 60% certified and counting -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Markham, RichardSent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:03 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Backups It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in time operations. -Original Message- From: John Weatherman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Backups This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Ma
Re:RE: RE: Backups
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: John Weatherman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=Content-Type CONTENT=text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 META NAME=Generator CONTENT=MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12 TITLERE: Backups/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=2It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in /FONT BRFONT SIZE=2time operations./FONT /P BR BR PFONT SIZE=2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2From: John Weatherman [A HREF=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED];mailto:john.weatherman@replac emen ts.com/A]/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Subject: RE: Backups/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=2This doesn't sound right.nbsp; Put the database in hot backup mode,/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2come out of hot backup mode.nbsp; Why wouldn't you be able to recover? /FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2John P Weatherman/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Database Administrator/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Replacements Ltd./FONT /P BR BR PFONT SIZE=2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=2If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2database must be closed when you do the backup.nbsp; If it is not, you won't be/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2able to recover./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2Just a thot,/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Ruth/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2- Original Message -/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2To: quot;Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-Lquot; lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=2Robyn,/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2nbsp;We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2fine except that itnbsp; used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2the dd tape./FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Other users will know about the transportability issues./FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Ron/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2nbsp;ROR mª¿ªm/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2gt;gt;gt; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM gt;gt;gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Hello,/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2I need some info about backups.nbsp; I am working on a customer site, and/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2have implemented both exports and hot backups.nbsp; Both jobs copy to a/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2moves the files to tape./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals.nbsp; The file/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array.nbsp; We've provided him with a/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be/FONT BRFONT SIZE
RE: Backups
I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Maili ng list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: John Weatherman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To
RE: RE: RE: Backups
- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: John Weatherman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=Content-Type CONTENT=text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 META NAME=Generator CONTENT=MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12 TITLERE: Backups/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=2It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in /FONT BRFONT SIZE=2time operations./FONT /P BR BR PFONT SIZE=2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2From: John Weatherman [A HREF=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED];mailto:john.weatherman@replac emen ts.com/A]/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Subject: RE: Backups/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=2This doesn't sound right.nbsp; Put the database in hot backup mode,/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2come out of hot backup mode.nbsp; Why wouldn't you be able to recover? /FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2John P Weatherman/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Database Administrator/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Replacements Ltd./FONT /P BR BR PFONT SIZE=2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=2If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2database must be closed when you do the backup.nbsp; If it is not, you won't be/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2able to recover./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2Just a thot,/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Ruth/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2- Original Message -/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2To: quot;Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-Lquot; lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=2Robyn,/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2nbsp;We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2fine except that itnbsp; used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2the dd tape./FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Other users will know about the transportability issues./FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Ron/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2nbsp;ROR mª¿ªm/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2gt;gt;gt; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM gt;gt;gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Hello,/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2I need some info about backups.nbsp; I am working on a customer site, and/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2have implemented both exports and hot backups.nbsp; Both jobs copy to a/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2moves the files to tape./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals.nbsp
Re: Backups
I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Maili ng list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: John Weatherman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
RE: RE: RE: Backups
Unless: You do a point in time recovery, find out you were given the wrong time, and try to do it again. Not so simple, can't be done from the SQL*Bactrack menu. Jared Smith, Ron L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/2002 01:26 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups SQL Backtrack and Netbackup! No manual tracking. Restores couldn't be simpler. R. Smith -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Richard, Distateful is being nice. Try down right horrifying is a more appriopriate description. Been There, Done that, now have three Unix SA's who handle it. Life is so grand!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Markham; Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/3/2002 10:53 AM Yes I personally run Veritas Netbackup for both cold and RMAN. A fiber SAN has its added benefits as well =). I have never really explored the implications of these other utilities. My head filled with many distasteful visuals. Yes, I agree with you and I realize that I am spoiled knocking on wood. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:38 PM To: Markham; Richard; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've used cpio, dd, and fbackup to do hot and cold backups before, but never again. With those utilities the burden of keeping track of what is on which tape rests with you and normally a stubby pencil pad of paper because you know what won't be available when you need to do a recovery. They do work be assured, but the administrative overhead is just not worth it anymore, even for a small shop. Get a copy of Veritas or OmniBack or some other software package that does library management for you and preferably integrates with RMAN. Life can be so much easier!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Markham; Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/3/2002 10:03 AM It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in time operations. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list
RE: Backups
You are lucky to have all your databases in archivelog mode. We have large datawarehouses here, where business is quite acceptable to a recovery from a cold backup taken 3 months earlier. RMAN is goood, but waiting for Oracle to come out with an object point in time recovery, before we can completely do away with exports. Not that it cannot be done using RMAN, but with limited resources at our disposal, a logical backup and restore is much easier. Having said that, we use RMAN for 90% of our databases, and HP omniback as the media manager. Raj Mercadante, Thomas F To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: ate.ny.us Subject: RE: Backups Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] October 03, 2002 04:17 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd
RE: RE: RE: Backups
You must be using an old version. Been there done that. Works! Ron PS: Also works on NT! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:11 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Unless: You do a point in time recovery, find out you were given the wrong time, and try to do it again. Not so simple, can't be done from the SQL*Bactrack menu. Jared Smith, Ron L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/2002 01:26 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups SQL Backtrack and Netbackup! No manual tracking. Restores couldn't be simpler. R. Smith -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Richard, Distateful is being nice. Try down right horrifying is a more appriopriate description. Been There, Done that, now have three Unix SA's who handle it. Life is so grand!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Markham; Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/3/2002 10:53 AM Yes I personally run Veritas Netbackup for both cold and RMAN. A fiber SAN has its added benefits as well =). I have never really explored the implications of these other utilities. My head filled with many distasteful visuals. Yes, I agree with you and I realize that I am spoiled knocking on wood. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:38 PM To: Markham; Richard; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've used cpio, dd, and fbackup to do hot and cold backups before, but never again. With those utilities the burden of keeping track of what is on which tape rests with you and normally a stubby pencil pad of paper because you know what won't be available when you need to do a recovery. They do work be assured, but the administrative overhead is just not worth it anymore, even for a small shop. Get a copy of Veritas or OmniBack or some other software package that does library management for you and preferably integrates with RMAN. Life can be so much easier!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Markham; Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/3/2002 10:03 AM It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in time operations. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE
Re: Backups
wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Maili ng list and web hosting services
RE: RE: RE: Backups
Not using any version of it now. Veritas Net Backup and RMAN. When BMC purchased DataTools, the support for SQL*Backtrack really went down the tubes. I don't know if it's improved or not, but I don't really miss it now. Jared Smith, Ron L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/2002 02:38 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups You must be using an old version. Been there done that. Works! Ron PS: Also works on NT! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:11 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Unless: You do a point in time recovery, find out you were given the wrong time, and try to do it again. Not so simple, can't be done from the SQL*Bactrack menu. Jared Smith, Ron L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/2002 01:26 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups SQL Backtrack and Netbackup! No manual tracking. Restores couldn't be simpler. R. Smith -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Richard, Distateful is being nice. Try down right horrifying is a more appriopriate description. Been There, Done that, now have three Unix SA's who handle it. Life is so grand!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Markham; Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/3/2002 10:53 AM Yes I personally run Veritas Netbackup for both cold and RMAN. A fiber SAN has its added benefits as well =). I have never really explored the implications of these other utilities. My head filled with many distasteful visuals. Yes, I agree with you and I realize that I am spoiled knocking on wood. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:38 PM To: Markham; Richard; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've used cpio, dd, and fbackup to do hot and cold backups before, but never again. With those utilities the burden of keeping track of what is on which tape rests with you and normally a stubby pencil pad of paper because you know what won't be available when you need to do a recovery. They do work be assured, but the administrative overhead is just not worth it anymore, even for a small shop. Get a copy of Veritas or OmniBack or some other software package that does library management for you and preferably integrates with RMAN. Life can be so much easier!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Markham; Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/3/2002 10:03 AM It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in time operations. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system
RE: Backups
Ruth, Tom, or anyone So what is the final checklist before you take a deep breath and stop cold backups. I have successfully run a disaster recovery test, but after so many years of the comfort of a cold to go back to, it sorta takes you back. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Maili ng list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL
Re: Backups
OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL
Re: Backups
Cold backup is very good because I don't have to monitor database during the cold backup, no objects will run out of space and I can enjoy a peaceful time without any chance for my beeper to go off. You must admit that a cold backup cannot guarantee you that. Unfortunately, my bosses somehow got the curious idea that they have paid big bucks for all those HP 9000 to work and not to sit idle. They even calculated a downtime cost per hour for each critical system and they are extremely reluctant to have them down for extended periods of time (1.1 TB database cannot be backed up in minutes, even with Asymmetrix). That is why they bought me a toy called OPS and why there are policies and procedures about who and how gets things in the production database. I would love to do cold backup every day from 8 PM until 7 AM and during Sunday football games but it is not very likely that my wish will come true. Starlight, starbright, first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I might have the wish I wish tonight. That is my best chance to get cold backups every day. On 2002.10.04 01:38 Jared Still wrote: OK, Gene, you asked for it. :) The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one. I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but... No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit. ;) There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup. I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying you that a hot backup won't deliver. Jared On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote: wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 04:33PM I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been using Rman. Just not needed anymore. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 02:28PM Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/03/02 01:53PM I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman to do online backups. No problem with recovery! Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover? John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover. Just a thot, Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM Robyn, We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape. Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want
Re: Backups
Yes, you can use dd to read a tape. from man dd: Example 3: Reading a Tape Into an ASCII File This example reads an EBCDIC tape blocked ten 80-byte EBCDIC card images per block into the ASCII file x: example% dd if=/dev/tape of=x ibs=800 cbs=80 conv=ascii,lcase Are you going to sleep well until you have tested and documented the recovery procedure? No. On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 04:08:27PM -0800, Robyn Anderson Sands wrote: Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- === Ray Stell [EMAIL PROTECTED] (540) 231-4109 KE4TJC28^D -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ray Stell INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups
I've relied on dd, mainly when working with raw devices. dd is probably one of the oldest commands in the UNIX lexicon. It's just another way to get the job done... soapbox rant RMAN is a *much* better solution. After all, how are these exports, backup scripts, and what-not going to check the database for block corruption? For archived redo logfile corruption? How will someone be able to determine how many backups are on tape for each datafile and archived redo logfile? Can you do trial restores, to test what's on tape? Will any restore/recovery scenarios be scripted? /soapbox rant - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:08 PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups
Thank you for the response - I especially liked ( agreed with) the rant. You expressed many of the same concerns that I have, but this is a small operation and there's a lot to clean up. The application was installed in the system schema, the users all had 'SYSTEM' for their temporary tablespace, dual had 121 rows in it, backup was copying the wrong $ORACLE_HOME, the database and configuration files were in 'unusual' locations and the developer uses a where clause to sequence his results instead of specifying 'order by'. Did I mention there's no test server? Maybe I'll get them on RMAN eventually, and I will be testing the recovery process, but for now, I'll just be happy to get a complete backup on tape. If anyone is aware of potential pitfalls to watch out for until the situation can be improved, I'd appreciate add'l input. Robyn Tim Gorman wrote: I've relied on dd, mainly when working with raw devices. dd is probably one of the oldest commands in the UNIX lexicon. It's just another way to get the job done... soapbox rant RMAN is a *much* better solution. After all, how are these exports, backup scripts, and what-not going to check the database for block corruption? For archived redo logfile corruption? How will someone be able to determine how many backups are on tape for each datafile and archived redo logfile? Can you do trial restores, to test what's on tape? Will any restore/recovery scenarios be scripted? /soapbox rant - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:08 PM Hello, I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape. Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8. Robyn -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Robyn Anderson Sands iTeam Technologies, Inc. Office: 404.816.6920 Mobile: 404.234.4873 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robyn Anderson Sands INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups
Charlie, We do a cold backup of the production database active tablespaces (36 GIG) each night and a cold backup each Sunday night of the full database(active and read-only tablespaces 70 GIG). The reason we backup the read-only each week is it is easier to restore from one tape and I do not control the backup script. I find it easier to have the group in control of the backups to just backup the whole server once a week. Then I do not have to double check them all the time if I make changes to the database read-only data. Every 6 months I move a lot of data from the active tables to the archive tables and the majority of the time it will take 2 - 3 weeks to gat all the data moved( I have space limits on my archivelog destination). It can be a challange to make sure another department updates and completes their work. Our system is primarly a load in the am and query all day but there is a second instance that contains all of the applications that are query and update applications. ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/29/02 04:33PM How many sites are doing cold backups? At what frequency? How many sites are doing hot backups? At what frequency? Does anybody know the existance of any Best Practices paper on the web that discuss the topic of Oracle backups? If so, what's the URL? TIA! -- Charlie Mengler Maintenance Warehouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10641 Scripps Summit Ct. 858-831-2229 San Diego, CA 92131 Lead, follow, or at least have the courtesy to get out of my way! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Charlie Mengler INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups
Charlie - Currently on most of our systems we do a weekly cold backup and rely on archive logs for the rest of the week. We augment this with full exports a couple of days/week. This is not ideal. Previously we did nightly cold backups, but our systems grew to the point that wasn't practical. We tried hot backups a couple of years ago, but the time between issuing the start backup command and the system responding took too long on each tablespace, so we had to give that up. If I tried that today, I would ask this list for suggestions and might resolve the problem. Now we are looking at moving to RMAN. Depending on the size of your system, you should consider RMAN. It seems to offer many advantages, especially the ability to perform on-line backups with no penalties. We are starting by backing up to disk because that appears to be a little simpler. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 7:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Charlie, We do a cold backup of the production database active tablespaces (36 GIG) each night and a cold backup each Sunday night of the full database(active and read-only tablespaces 70 GIG). The reason we backup the read-only each week is it is easier to restore from one tape and I do not control the backup script. I find it easier to have the group in control of the backups to just backup the whole server once a week. Then I do not have to double check them all the time if I make changes to the database read-only data. Every 6 months I move a lot of data from the active tables to the archive tables and the majority of the time it will take 2 - 3 weeks to gat all the data moved( I have space limits on my archivelog destination). It can be a challange to make sure another department updates and completes their work. Our system is primarly a load in the am and query all day but there is a second instance that contains all of the applications that are query and update applications. ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/29/02 04:33PM How many sites are doing cold backups? At what frequency? How many sites are doing hot backups? At what frequency? Does anybody know the existance of any Best Practices paper on the web that discuss the topic of Oracle backups? If so, what's the URL? TIA! -- Charlie Mengler Maintenance Warehouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10641 Scripps Summit Ct. 858-831-2229 San Diego, CA 92131 Lead, follow, or at least have the courtesy to get out of my way! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Charlie Mengler INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups
Charlie, I use Rman for all my backups. I like to have my database's up and available to the users all the time. Rman makes backup and recovery a simple process. For my production db's, I will perform nightly Rman backups of the database and archivelog files, and weekly Rman Validates for both types of backup. For development, I perform twice-weekly database backups, with interspersed archivelog backups with, again, weekly Rman Validates for both types of backups. Hope this helps Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 9:38 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Charlie - Currently on most of our systems we do a weekly cold backup and rely on archive logs for the rest of the week. We augment this with full exports a couple of days/week. This is not ideal. Previously we did nightly cold backups, but our systems grew to the point that wasn't practical. We tried hot backups a couple of years ago, but the time between issuing the start backup command and the system responding took too long on each tablespace, so we had to give that up. If I tried that today, I would ask this list for suggestions and might resolve the problem. Now we are looking at moving to RMAN. Depending on the size of your system, you should consider RMAN. It seems to offer many advantages, especially the ability to perform on-line backups with no penalties. We are starting by backing up to disk because that appears to be a little simpler. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 7:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Charlie, We do a cold backup of the production database active tablespaces (36 GIG) each night and a cold backup each Sunday night of the full database(active and read-only tablespaces 70 GIG). The reason we backup the read-only each week is it is easier to restore from one tape and I do not control the backup script. I find it easier to have the group in control of the backups to just backup the whole server once a week. Then I do not have to double check them all the time if I make changes to the database read-only data. Every 6 months I move a lot of data from the active tables to the archive tables and the majority of the time it will take 2 - 3 weeks to gat all the data moved( I have space limits on my archivelog destination). It can be a challange to make sure another department updates and completes their work. Our system is primarly a load in the am and query all day but there is a second instance that contains all of the applications that are query and update applications. ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/29/02 04:33PM How many sites are doing cold backups? At what frequency? How many sites are doing hot backups? At what frequency? Does anybody know the existance of any Best Practices paper on the web that discuss the topic of Oracle backups? If so, what's the URL? TIA! -- Charlie Mengler Maintenance Warehouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10641 Scripps Summit Ct. 858-831-2229 San Diego, CA 92131 Lead, follow, or at least have the courtesy to get out of my way! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Charlie Mengler INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling
Re: Backups
Ryn, I know nothing about the VxFS/UFS snapshot utlities, but from a backup standpoint, other than using RMAN, the only way a valid backup can be taken with the database up and running is to put the tablespaces in backup mode before the datafiles, or the filesystems on which they reside, are copied. If this is similar to a disk split, for example, you can restore the split and open the database because this is essentially the same case as starting up a db after a shutdown abort and SMON will do instance recovery. This is NOT a valid backup, however, and attempting to do media recovery and apply archived logs will write warnings to the alert.log that you are attempting to recover from a fuzzy backup and the db will not open. HTH, --Anita --- Ryn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello folks, We are looking into the VxFS/UFS snapshot utlities, and I am curious how you can quiesce an Oracle instance? I would like all changes to the buffer cache to be flushed to the file system and checkpoints to occur. What would I need to run to do this? I assume this would give the file system a consistent view of the database. We are going to play with this in our test environment. Thanks for any info, - Ryn __ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: A. Bardeen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups on raw devices
Steve, From the 817 documentation on RMAN: Storage of the RMAN Repository Exclusively in the Control File Because most information in the recovery catalog is also available in the target database's control file, RMAN supports an operational mode in which it uses the target database control file instead of a recovery catalog. This mode is especially appropriate for small databases where installation and administration of another database for the sole purpose of maintaining the recovery catalog is burdensome. Oracle does not support the following features in this operational mode: Stored scripts Restore and recovery when the control file is lost or damaged Types of Records in the Control File When you do not use a recovery catalog, the control file is the exclusive source of information about backups and copies as well as other relevant information. The control file contains two types of records: circular reuse records and non-circular reuse records. Circular Reuse Records Circular reuse records contain non-critical information that is eligible to be overwritten if the need arises. These records contain information that is continually generated by the database. Some examples of information circular reuse records include: Log history Archived redo logs Backups Offline ranges for datafiles Circular re-use records are arranged in a logical ring. When all available record slots are full, Oracle either expands the control file to make room for a new records or overwrites the oldest record. The CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME initialization parameter specifies the minimum age in days of a record before it can be reused. See Also: Monitoring the Overwriting of Control File Records to learn how to manage Oracle's treatment of circular-reuse records. Non-Circular Reuse Records Non-circular reuse records contain critical information that does not change often and cannot be overwritten. Some examples of information in circular reuse records include: Datafiles Online redo logs Redo threads Recovery Without a Catalog To restore and recover your database without using a recovery catalog, Oracle recommends that you: Use a minimum of two multiplexed or mirrored control files, each on separate disks. Keep excellent records of which files were backed up, the date they were backed up, and the names of the backup pieces that each file was written to (see Chapter 4, Generating Lists and Reports with Recovery Manager). Keep all Recovery Manager backup logs. WARNING: It is difficult to restore and recover if you lose your control files and do not use a recovery catalog. The only way to restore and recover when you have lost all control files and need to restore and recover datafiles is to call Oracle Support Services. Support will need to know: The current schema of the database. Which files were backed up. When the files were backed up. The names of the backup pieces containing the files. See Also: Understanding Catalog-Only Command Restrictions for a complete list of commands that are disabled unless you use a recovery catalog. Regards, Bruce -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2001 2:02 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L With Oracle 8.0 there was RMAN functionality that you could only get by having a repository in a database. But with Oracle 8.1 it seems that you get all the functionality you need with controlfiles. What functionality do you lose by using RMAN with controlfiles? Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 2:11 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L You can just use the controlfile so you don't have to setup a database repository. Here's a clip from page 2-8 of the User's Guide: When you use a control file as the RMAN repository, RMAN still functions very effectively. If you choose not to use a recovery catalog, follow the guidelines in Managing the RMAN Repository Without a Recovery Catalog on page 3-45. Specifically, make sure you understand which commands require a catalog, and develop a strategy for backing up the repository. You can configure the amount of history kept in you controlfiles with the following init.ora entry: # Keep 14 days of history in the control file for the RMAN backups... CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME = 14 Of course, make sure you backup the controlfiles. :-) Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 9:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've logged a TAR on this one with Oracle. They have verified what I suspected all along. The SAs here don't understand how Oracle performs a hot backup. There is no difference between raw and cooked file systems as far as Oracle is concerned when performing a hot backup. Also, the skipping of the header is only
Re: Backups on raw devices
On Jun 15, 2001 at 04:05:49PM, Christopher Spence wrote: In Oracle, you will get an inconsistent image of the data file, but that is true with any manual hot backup - cpio, tar, cp, etc. It is not a problem - iff the tablespace(s) are in backup mode. (Wasn't there something about this on the OCP exam?) This is exactly the reason why Oracle will write full blocks to the redo logs during tablespace backup mode. Yes, the block is inconsistent, but if It's done if a block appears in the buffer cache -- the full image of a block is written. If the block remains in the buffer cache for a long period of time the regular logging will be done. If it's flushed and loaded again (and the tablespace still in hot backup mode) -- the full image block will be logged again. It's not a logical approach but it's done like that. RMAN can be used to eliminate such a behavior for some heavy loaded systems. -- Vladimir Begun | The more things change, the more they'll http://vbegun.net/ | never be the same again. http://vbegun.net/wap/ | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Vladimir Begun INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups on raw devices
I've logged a TAR on this one with Oracle. They have verified what I suspected all along. The SAs here don't understand how Oracle performs a hot backup. There is no difference between raw and cooked file systems as far as Oracle is concerned when performing a hot backup. Also, the skipping of the header is only applicable to certain variants of UNIX. One other question here. Does anyone have recommendations on the repository database required for RMAN? Do we need to keep a separate instance on another production box? Or the same production box? Does everybody have all of there repository information for all of their database in one instance? It seems like you would want a separate instance for each repository and have them staggered across different machines so that the odds of losing your database and it's repository at the same time would be low. Any suggestions? Thanks for all the replies so far! --Michael -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Michael, We use RMAN on RAW with EDM (EMC) backups, without any problem. When using RMAN, it will take care of all blocks that are being changed while the backup is going on. Also as EDM interfaces with the Tape library, RMAN will write directly to the Tape . Have this set up on about 15 databases and all of them are working fine. But occasionally our backups fail on 8.1.6 databases due to lack of resources on the Server (and some bugs!). Rama Jenkins, Michael wrote: We have parallel server running on on a Sun Cluster 2.2 and we are looking for the easiest way to perform hot backups. Now, I know that you have to use the dd command and skip the header at the beginning. Everything I read on metalink indicates that you can use basically the same paradigm as a hot backup on cooked file systems. But, the sysadmins here tell me that the raw device can't be backed up if there is any write activity on the data file that is currently being backed up. Now we all know that contrary to popular belief there is write activity on a data file even when the tablespace is in backup mode. Is rman or some other block-level backup utility the only way to get a reliable hot backup on raw devices? Does anybody have any experience with hot backups that are made while the database still has active users logged in? I look forward to everyone's thought on this. Thanks. Michael L. Jenkins Oracle Certified DBA Nextel Communications Norcross, GA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups on raw devices
You can put the repository anywhere you like. Even on the production box. But that will mean you will need to recover the RCAT, then the production database. If you have the resourcs, put the RCAT on another box to backup production. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 11:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've logged a TAR on this one with Oracle. They have verified what I suspected all along. The SAs here don't understand how Oracle performs a hot backup. There is no difference between raw and cooked file systems as far as Oracle is concerned when performing a hot backup. Also, the skipping of the header is only applicable to certain variants of UNIX. One other question here. Does anyone have recommendations on the repository database required for RMAN? Do we need to keep a separate instance on another production box? Or the same production box? Does everybody have all of there repository information for all of their database in one instance? It seems like you would want a separate instance for each repository and have them staggered across different machines so that the odds of losing your database and it's repository at the same time would be low. Any suggestions? Thanks for all the replies so far! --Michael -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Michael, We use RMAN on RAW with EDM (EMC) backups, without any problem. When using RMAN, it will take care of all blocks that are being changed while the backup is going on. Also as EDM interfaces with the Tape library, RMAN will write directly to the Tape . Have this set up on about 15 databases and all of them are working fine. But occasionally our backups fail on 8.1.6 databases due to lack of resources on the Server (and some bugs!). Rama Jenkins, Michael wrote: We have parallel server running on on a Sun Cluster 2.2 and we are looking for the easiest way to perform hot backups. Now, I know that you have to use the dd command and skip the header at the beginning. Everything I read on metalink indicates that you can use basically the same paradigm as a hot backup on cooked file systems. But, the sysadmins here tell me that the raw device can't be backed up if there is any write activity on the data file that is currently being backed up. Now we all know that contrary to popular belief there is write activity on a data file even when the tablespace is in backup mode. Is rman or some other block-level backup utility the only way to get a reliable hot backup on raw devices? Does anybody have any experience with hot backups that are made while the database still has active users logged in? I look forward to everyone's thought on this. Thanks. Michael L. Jenkins Oracle Certified DBA Nextel Communications Norcross, GA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups on raw devices
We have three separate databases (RCAT80, RCAT815, and RCAT817) which reside on a separate, small, UNIX box that we only use for backups. All the 8.0.4 databases are backed up to the RCAT80 database, 8.1.5 databases to RCAT815, and 8.1.7 databases to RCAT817. Each of these databases has it's own ORACLE_HOME. Then we have a second small unix box which hosts RCAT802, RCAT8152, and RDAT8172 which all have their own ORACLE_HOME. We backup up RCAT80 to RCAT802, RCAT815 to RCAT8152, and RCAT817 to RCAT8172. We use Sun Solaris 2.6 and we also use Veritas file manager and Netbackup in conjunction with RMAN. Cherie Machler Oracle DBA Gelco Information Network Jenkins, Michael Michael.Jenkins@NTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] extel.comcc: Sent by: Subject: RE: Backups on raw devices [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/18/01 10:16 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L I've logged a TAR on this one with Oracle. They have verified what I suspected all along. The SAs here don't understand how Oracle performs a hot backup. There is no difference between raw and cooked file systems as far as Oracle is concerned when performing a hot backup. Also, the skipping of the header is only applicable to certain variants of UNIX. One other question here. Does anyone have recommendations on the repository database required for RMAN? Do we need to keep a separate instance on another production box? Or the same production box? Does everybody have all of there repository information for all of their database in one instance? It seems like you would want a separate instance for each repository and have them staggered across different machines so that the odds of losing your database and it's repository at the same time would be low. Any suggestions? Thanks for all the replies so far! --Michael -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Michael, We use RMAN on RAW with EDM (EMC) backups, without any problem. When using RMAN, it will take care of all blocks that are being changed while the backup is going on. Also as EDM interfaces with the Tape library, RMAN will write directly to the Tape . Have this set up on about 15 databases and all of them are working fine. But occasionally our backups fail on 8.1.6 databases due to lack of resources on the Server (and some bugs!). Rama Jenkins, Michael wrote: We have parallel server running on on a Sun Cluster 2.2 and we are looking for the easiest way to perform hot backups. Now, I know that you have to use the dd command and skip the header at the beginning. Everything I read on metalink indicates that you can use basically the same paradigm as a hot backup on cooked file systems. But, the sysadmins here tell me that the raw device can't be backed up if there is any write activity on the data file that is currently being backed up. Now we all know that contrary to popular belief there is write activity on a data file even when the tablespace is in backup mode. Is rman or some other block-level backup utility the only way to get a reliable hot backup on raw devices? Does anybody have any experience with hot backups that are made while the database still has active users logged in? I look forward to everyone's thought on this. Thanks. Michael L. Jenkins Oracle Certified DBA Nextel Communications Norcross, GA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
RE: Backups on raw devices
You can just use the controlfile so you don't have to setup a database repository. Here's a clip from page 2-8 of the User's Guide: When you use a control file as the RMAN repository, RMAN still functions very effectively. If you choose not to use a recovery catalog, follow the guidelines in Managing the RMAN Repository Without a Recovery Catalog on page 3-45. Specifically, make sure you understand which commands require a catalog, and develop a strategy for backing up the repository. You can configure the amount of history kept in you controlfiles with the following init.ora entry: # Keep 14 days of history in the control file for the RMAN backups... CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME = 14 Of course, make sure you backup the controlfiles. :-) Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 9:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've logged a TAR on this one with Oracle. They have verified what I suspected all along. The SAs here don't understand how Oracle performs a hot backup. There is no difference between raw and cooked file systems as far as Oracle is concerned when performing a hot backup. Also, the skipping of the header is only applicable to certain variants of UNIX. One other question here. Does anyone have recommendations on the repository database required for RMAN? Do we need to keep a separate instance on another production box? Or the same production box? Does everybody have all of there repository information for all of their database in one instance? It seems like you would want a separate instance for each repository and have them staggered across different machines so that the odds of losing your database and it's repository at the same time would be low. Any suggestions? Thanks for all the replies so far! --Michael -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Michael, We use RMAN on RAW with EDM (EMC) backups, without any problem. When using RMAN, it will take care of all blocks that are being changed while the backup is going on. Also as EDM interfaces with the Tape library, RMAN will write directly to the Tape . Have this set up on about 15 databases and all of them are working fine. But occasionally our backups fail on 8.1.6 databases due to lack of resources on the Server (and some bugs!). Rama Jenkins, Michael wrote: We have parallel server running on on a Sun Cluster 2.2 and we are looking for the easiest way to perform hot backups. Now, I know that you have to use the dd command and skip the header at the beginning. Everything I read on metalink indicates that you can use basically the same paradigm as a hot backup on cooked file systems. But, the sysadmins here tell me that the raw device can't be backed up if there is any write activity on the data file that is currently being backed up. Now we all know that contrary to popular belief there is write activity on a data file even when the tablespace is in backup mode. Is rman or some other block-level backup utility the only way to get a reliable hot backup on raw devices? Does anybody have any experience with hot backups that are made while the database still has active users logged in? I look forward to everyone's thought on this. Thanks. Michael L. Jenkins Oracle Certified DBA Nextel Communications Norcross, GA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
Re: Backups on raw devices
How would this be any different than reading a file system when write activity is taking place? It doesn't matter if it's the OS or Oracle managing the disk, block can and will be split during a hot backup. I think your sysadmins need to reconsider. And if I'm all wet on this, someone will be sure to tell me. :) Jared On Friday 15 June 2001 12:37, Jenkins, Michael wrote: We have parallel server running on on a Sun Cluster 2.2 and we are looking for the easiest way to perform hot backups. Now, I know that you have to use the dd command and skip the header at the beginning. Everything I read on metalink indicates that you can use basically the same paradigm as a hot backup on cooked file systems. But, the sysadmins here tell me that the raw device can't be backed up if there is any write activity on the data file that is currently being backed up. Now we all know that contrary to popular belief there is write activity on a data file even when the tablespace is in backup mode. Is rman or some other block-level backup utility the only way to get a reliable hot backup on raw devices? Does anybody have any experience with hot backups that are made while the database still has active users logged in? I look forward to everyone's thought on this. Thanks. Michael L. Jenkins Oracle Certified DBA Nextel Communications Norcross, GA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups on raw devices
I agree as long you put the TS in backup mode. Also I'm not sure about skipping the header block! Regards, Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 6:42 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L How would this be any different than reading a file system when write activity is taking place? It doesn't matter if it's the OS or Oracle managing the disk, block can and will be split during a hot backup. I think your sysadmins need to reconsider. And if I'm all wet on this, someone will be sure to tell me. :) Jared On Friday 15 June 2001 12:37, Jenkins, Michael wrote: We have parallel server running on on a Sun Cluster 2.2 and we are looking for the easiest way to perform hot backups. Now, I know that you have to use the dd command and skip the header at the beginning. Everything I read on metalink indicates that you can use basically the same paradigm as a hot backup on cooked file systems. But, the sysadmins here tell me that the raw device can't be backed up if there is any write activity on the data file that is currently being backed up. Now we all know that contrary to popular belief there is write activity on a data file even when the tablespace is in backup mode. Is rman or some other block-level backup utility the only way to get a reliable hot backup on raw devices? Does anybody have any experience with hot backups that are made while the database still has active users logged in? I look forward to everyone's thought on this. Thanks. Michael L. Jenkins Oracle Certified DBA Nextel Communications Norcross, GA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups on raw devices
I have extensive, but aging, experience with hot backups of raw devices on active systems - on Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, and a handful of other Unix variants - and some significant experience with OPS on Sun Cluster. dd works, but certainly isn't the easiest way - or the fastest! For one thing it will take a *LOT* longer than any modern backup utility. For example, dd will read the entire device - used or not. RMAN will know how to do null block compression - which isn't what it sounds like, but can be significantly faster. If you are on Sun Solaris and already have Veritos Netbackup for the system backups, use Netbackup as the media management layer and RMAN as the backup utility. This is how I've been doing all Oracle backups on Sun for the past 3.5 years. It isn't that hard to set up. RMAN is fairly easy in fact, but Netbackup is generally a bit more complex. Make sure you have your catalogs (RMAN and Netbackup) set up properly and test everything very thoroughly! The SAs are wrong. What they are thinking of is a normal system backup - what they typically do. In Oracle, you will get an inconsistent image of the data file, but that is true with any manual hot backup - cpio, tar, cp, etc. It is not a problem - iff the tablespace(s) are in backup mode. (Wasn't there something about this on the OCP exam?) I have not used dd for a few years, but what is this stuff about skipping the header? I never did anything like that and I used dd on raw devices for years - on hundreds of systems - and never had a problem with either backup or restorerecovery. I think this is more bad information from the SAs. [e.g With Veritos volumes, dd if=/dev/vx/rdsk/oradg/volume_name of=/dev/rmt0n bs=some value] (NOTE: bs=.. may be optional! And I don't remember offhand if it is /dev/rmt0n or /dev/rmt/0n in Solaris) I suspect that your SAs are going to be a problem... I might have to withdraw the Netbackup recommendation! You and the SA(s) will need to be in perfect harmony to get it working reliably. My first experience with Netbackup/RMAN|EBU was with a rather unsophisticated (and arrogant) SA. He fought it for months and never did get it working right anywhere... and kept blaming it on Oracle and RMAN/EBU. After he was replaced with a MUCH better SA, we had it nailed down tight on over fifty database servers in under a week. Seriously, if you can afford OPS, you can afford decent backup software - RMAN and Netbackup or something other than plain old dd! Don Granaman [OraSaurus] PS: If you do use Netbackup, be aware of how to modify bp.conf to do a restore the another node should the one where you do the backups fail and you have to restore from somewhere else. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:37 PM We have parallel server running on on a Sun Cluster 2.2 and we are looking for the easiest way to perform hot backups. Now, I know that you have to use the dd command and skip the header at the beginning. Everything I read on metalink indicates that you can use basically the same paradigm as a hot backup on cooked file systems. But, the sysadmins here tell me that the raw device can't be backed up if there is any write activity on the data file that is currently being backed up. Now we all know that contrary to popular belief there is write activity on a data file even when the tablespace is in backup mode. Is rman or some other block-level backup utility the only way to get a reliable hot backup on raw devices? Does anybody have any experience with hot backups that are made while the database still has active users logged in? I look forward to everyone's thought on this. Thanks. Michael L. Jenkins Oracle Certified DBA Nextel Communications Norcross, GA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing:
RE: Backups on raw devices
In Oracle, you will get an inconsistent image of the data file, but that is true with any manual hot backup - cpio, tar, cp, etc. It is not a problem - iff the tablespace(s) are in backup mode. (Wasn't there something about this on the OCP exam?) This is exactly the reason why Oracle will write full blocks to the redo logs during tablespace backup mode. Yes, the block is inconsistent, but if we have the entire block since the backup mode, we can restore the file, then lay the blocks in and create a consistent datafile. This is the same no matter if your using Raw or Cooked. And yes, there are a few things on the OCP exams on this. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 7:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I have extensive, but aging, experience with hot backups of raw devices on active systems - on Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, and a handful of other Unix variants - and some significant experience with OPS on Sun Cluster. dd works, but certainly isn't the easiest way - or the fastest! For one thing it will take a *LOT* longer than any modern backup utility. For example, dd will read the entire device - used or not. RMAN will know how to do null block compression - which isn't what it sounds like, but can be significantly faster. If you are on Sun Solaris and already have Veritos Netbackup for the system backups, use Netbackup as the media management layer and RMAN as the backup utility. This is how I've been doing all Oracle backups on Sun for the past 3.5 years. It isn't that hard to set up. RMAN is fairly easy in fact, but Netbackup is generally a bit more complex. Make sure you have your catalogs (RMAN and Netbackup) set up properly and test everything very thoroughly! The SAs are wrong. What they are thinking of is a normal system backup - what they typically do. In Oracle, you will get an inconsistent image of the data file, but that is true with any manual hot backup - cpio, tar, cp, etc. It is not a problem - iff the tablespace(s) are in backup mode. (Wasn't there something about this on the OCP exam?) I have not used dd for a few years, but what is this stuff about skipping the header? I never did anything like that and I used dd on raw devices for years - on hundreds of systems - and never had a problem with either backup or restorerecovery. I think this is more bad information from the SAs. [e.g With Veritos volumes, dd if=/dev/vx/rdsk/oradg/volume_name of=/dev/rmt0n bs=some value] (NOTE: bs=.. may be optional! And I don't remember offhand if it is /dev/rmt0n or /dev/rmt/0n in Solaris) I suspect that your SAs are going to be a problem... I might have to withdraw the Netbackup recommendation! You and the SA(s) will need to be in perfect harmony to get it working reliably. My first experience with Netbackup/RMAN|EBU was with a rather unsophisticated (and arrogant) SA. He fought it for months and never did get it working right anywhere... and kept blaming it on Oracle and RMAN/EBU. After he was replaced with a MUCH better SA, we had it nailed down tight on over fifty database servers in under a week. Seriously, if you can afford OPS, you can afford decent backup software - RMAN and Netbackup or something other than plain old dd! Don Granaman [OraSaurus] PS: If you do use Netbackup, be aware of how to modify bp.conf to do a restore the another node should the one where you do the backups fail and you have to restore from somewhere else. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:37 PM We have parallel server running on on a Sun Cluster 2.2 and we are looking for the easiest way to perform hot backups. Now, I know that you have to use the dd command and skip the header at the beginning. Everything I read on metalink indicates that you can use basically the same paradigm as a hot backup on cooked file systems. But, the sysadmins here tell me that the raw device can't be backed up if there is any write activity on the data file that is currently being backed up. Now we all know that contrary to popular belief there is write activity on a data file even when the tablespace is in backup mode. Is rman or some other block-level backup utility the only way to get a reliable hot backup on raw devices? Does anybody have any experience with hot backups that are made while the database still has active users logged in? I look forward to everyone's thought on this. Thanks. Michael L. Jenkins Oracle Certified DBA Nextel Communications Norcross, GA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
RE: Backups on raw devices
we used raw devices for years... And never had a problem with hot backups and restores... I question the need to skip the fist block of the raw device.. We never did that... Even in a parallel server mode as well Greg -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 7:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I agree as long you put the TS in backup mode. Also I'm not sure about skipping the header block! Regards, Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 6:42 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L How would this be any different than reading a file system when write activity is taking place? It doesn't matter if it's the OS or Oracle managing the disk, block can and will be split during a hot backup. I think your sysadmins need to reconsider. And if I'm all wet on this, someone will be sure to tell me. :) Jared On Friday 15 June 2001 12:37, Jenkins, Michael wrote: We have parallel server running on on a Sun Cluster 2.2 and we are looking for the easiest way to perform hot backups. Now, I know that you have to use the dd command and skip the header at the beginning. Everything I read on metalink indicates that you can use basically the same paradigm as a hot backup on cooked file systems. But, the sysadmins here tell me that the raw device can't be backed up if there is any write activity on the data file that is currently being backed up. Now we all know that contrary to popular belief there is write activity on a data file even when the tablespace is in backup mode. Is rman or some other block-level backup utility the only way to get a reliable hot backup on raw devices? Does anybody have any experience with hot backups that are made while the database still has active users logged in? I look forward to everyone's thought on this. Thanks. Michael L. Jenkins Oracle Certified DBA Nextel Communications Norcross, GA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Loughmiller, Greg INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups on raw devices
Michael, We use RMAN on RAW with EDM (EMC) backups, without any problem. When using RMAN, it will take care of all blocks that are being changed while the backup is going on. Also as EDM interfaces with the Tape library, RMAN will write directly to the Tape . Have this set up on about 15 databases and all of them are working fine. But occasionally our backups fail on 8.1.6 databases due to lack of resources on the Server (and some bugs!). Rama Jenkins, Michael wrote: We have parallel server running on on a Sun Cluster 2.2 and we are looking for the easiest way to perform hot backups. Now, I know that you have to use the dd command and skip the header at the beginning. Everything I read on metalink indicates that you can use basically the same paradigm as a hot backup on cooked file systems. But, the sysadmins here tell me that the raw device can't be backed up if there is any write activity on the data file that is currently being backed up. Now we all know that contrary to popular belief there is write activity on a data file even when the tablespace is in backup mode. Is rman or some other block-level backup utility the only way to get a reliable hot backup on raw devices? Does anybody have any experience with hot backups that are made while the database still has active users logged in? I look forward to everyone's thought on this. Thanks. Michael L. Jenkins Oracle Certified DBA Nextel Communications Norcross, GA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jenkins, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). begin:vcard n:Malladi;Rama x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Toyota Motor Sales (USA);Toyota Production Services adr:;; version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Production Lead / DBA fn:Rama Malladi (Oracle 8i Certified DBA) end:vcard
