RE: Rant-Rant
I think they may have some flawed processes because my wife received one piece of mail from them and we are more than a few years younger than 50. But Rachel, in my mind there's no way you would be even close to qualifying for their benefits. Stephen >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/23/02 11:38AM >>> what a nice way to put that :) maybe they are taking mental age into account and so think I'm about 16? either that or they have you confused with someone else, it was my understanding that they tag you as soon as you hit 50 --- "Toepke, Kevin M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hmmm... thats intersting. I'm somewhat your junior and I've been > getting > their propaganda for a couple of years already. > > -Original Message- > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:34 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > so sweet. so deluded. > > I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found > but close > > on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) > hasn't > started sending me their propaganda yet > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > > > Cheers > > > > > > -- > > = > > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > > = > > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > > = > > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > > > = > > > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > > confidential > > information. If you have received this transmission in error, > please > > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are > the > > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > > of > > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > cc: > > Fax to: > > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 > hour > > days". > > > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > > if > > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > > consultants > > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but > he's > > way too young for me. :) > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Rachel, > > > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > > the > > > luxury > > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one > person > > > and > > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > > > Tom Mercadante > > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > > >organization > > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they > rarely > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit > out > > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > > luxury > > > beyond belief. > > > > > > As I
Re: Rant - Oracle Security
Whenever I talk about database security, I put the emphasis on the much more common accidental damage. If the focus is on preventing external attack, everyone dozes off - few have had (known, at least) penetrations that got to the DB server. However, how many DBAs have NOT had a case of someone calling them and saying something like "Ooops! I dropped the ORDERS table in PROD. I thought I was in DEV." or "Can you restore the 20 records I accidentally deleted?" or ... ... or have never done something themselves like "lsnrctl stop" and discovered that they actually shut down the listener on a node other than the one intended? This kind of stuff probably happens a million times more often than things like SQL injection attacks. Sound security practices make both accidental and malicious damage much more difficult. Don Granaman [OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 11:13 PM I agree that the "glory" is in tuning, but I also think backup/recovery gets a sufficient amount of respect. It's nice now that advocating RMAN isn't considered snake-oil... Where I get funny looks these days is when I discuss database security. I try to defuse the tension by quoting the old saw about "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you", but people still fidget and look away in pity as if I've lost my mind. I asked two audiences recently how many people utilize the SYSOPER role, and only one person in the second audience raised his hand. Similar effect if you ask about password management... ...I have to admit that some of the scarier folks are the ones who agree totally, though... :-) - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 8:28 PM > mkb, you're right, the "glory" is in tuning nowadays, but i beg to > differ, since if you can't/won't do recovery when the chips are down, > then the point is moot. > > I specialize in backup/recovery but getting damagement to think its > important today when the db is running fine, is tough. Its only when > its time to do recovery does damagement all of a sudden think its important. > > Joe > > > mkb wrote: > > >Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > >Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > >the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > >about 2-3 years experience. > > > >I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > >think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > >questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > >based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > >someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > >resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > >intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > >luck! > > > >What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > >get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > >had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > >recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > >claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > >level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > >about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > >I got were completely off base, baffling and > >frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > >years experience!!! > > > >'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > >these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > >done this???) > > > >'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > >datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not > >how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > >'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > >starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > > > >'During this time, everything is written to the redo > >logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > >reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > >I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > >backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > >got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > >what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > >know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > >asked every candidate how they would do an online > >recover of a datafile while the database was still in > >use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > >I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this > >list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > >knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > >much? > > > >Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > > >mkb > > > > > >__ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > >http://health.yahoo.com > > > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Joe Testa > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet acce
Re: RE: Rant...DOCUMENTATION
List, If you have problems with the CD's then the Doc's are available for download at http://download-west.oracle.com/otndoc/oracle9i/901_doc/nav/docindex.htm Just like "Alice's Restaurant". Ron ROR mô¿ôm -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE: Rant
Don't forget the neat stuff you find by accident while thumbing through the books trying to find something else. Henry - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 1:03 AM CDs have some advantages - expense, searchability, and storage space primarily, but... 1) CDs are more difficult to read in bed, on a plane, waiting in the terminal, etc. 2) Books are easier to read, require less equipment, and are more portable than a computer and a CD 3) Try having six different CD manuals open to related sections spread out in front of you - reading them while you work against the database. 4) An open book shows two full pages of information. An open PDF about half a page. 5) I could usually grab a manual and flip through it to the relevant info about 10x faster than a computer search - and with a lot less extraneous (click/point/scroll/type) activity. 6) Highlighters, margin notes, and sticky-note bookmarks don't work at all with CDs I miss hardcopy manuals! Don Granaman [certifiable OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:18 PM RE: RE: RantNot me. I LOVE the cds. I copy them onto my hard drive and use the pdf versions. they are SEARCHABLE. I can find things much more quickly in the pdf's than paper. Oracle is the only product that I feel this way about .. probably because they have more documentation than the library of congress! -Original Message- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been costly. It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Henry Poras INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
I like the idea of the new search, but I don't like the requirement of Internet access to be able to use it. The useless 2nd doc CD should include an exported TS and the init.ora and scripts to recreate the OracleText DB that Oracle probably uses to do the search. I suppose that it would have to include the 9iAS setup, too, although I'm not as keen on that one. Then again, that's assuming it would even fit on a CD or two... :) You *can* "write" your own notes, but it takes a lot of work (editing of HTML and/or PDFs) and the search results won't point to your edited docs. Unless you dump the contents of the CD to a webserver like OSU for VMS (I haven't had time to setup Apache yet, but CGIs in DCL *rock*!), and do your own custom highlights, editing, and searches... Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA > -Original Message- > From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 1:44 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: RE: Rant > > > I like the hyperlinks on the CD docs. > > I like the improved master index and the search facility > > I HATE not being able to write my own notes on the page or reading the > docs on the train -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
Really? I had you pegged as an E given how well you organize all the NYOUG events/people. The J part was obvious :) Jay -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L hey, I'm an infj -- according to the out placement company, I'd make a good nun (Robert, did you see my test results?) --- "Miller, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > FYI: SJs make up about 40% of the population (app. 10% for each > sub-division). > > Jay Miller > infp (yeah, I know, what's an infp doing in a technical job... :) > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > That is why I use the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending > 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs > type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of > the > population fits this profile. > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Miller, Jay > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Miller, Jay INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
Depends what version of Adobe you have. I believe I had version five at my last job and you could add notes and bookmarks.. Just most of us are using Adobe reader, Free but not containing the editing abilities! > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@SUNGARD On Behalf Of Rachel Carmichael ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:44 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: RE: Rant > > I like the hyperlinks on the CD docs. > > I like the improved master index and the search facility > > I HATE not being able to write my own notes on the page or reading the > docs on the train > > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
I like the hyperlinks on the CD docs. I like the improved master index and the search facility I HATE not being able to write my own notes on the page or reading the docs on the train --- kkennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > AMEN!!! Those yellow stickies all over the CD case just don't cut it > and there is not enough screen space on any terminal I've seen that > replaces multiple books open at the same time or books with paper > weights holding them open to two separate sections for quick > flipping. > > On the other hand, the CDs are easier to come by and I've learned to > live with them. > > Kevin Kennedy > First Point Energy Corporation > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:03 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > CDs have some advantages - expense, searchability, and storage space > primarily, but... > > 1) CDs are more difficult to read in bed, on a plane, waiting in the > terminal, etc. > > 2) Books are easier to read, require less equipment, and are more > portable > than a computer and a CD > > 3) Try having six different CD manuals open to related sections > spread out > in front of you - reading them while you work against the database. > > 4) An open book shows two full pages of information. An open PDF > about half > a page. > > 5) I could usually grab a manual and flip through it to the relevant > info > about 10x faster than a computer search - and with a lot less > extraneous > (click/point/scroll/type) activity. > > 6) Highlighters, margin notes, and sticky-note bookmarks don't work > at all > with CDs > > I miss hardcopy manuals! > > Don Granaman > [certifiable OraSaurus] > > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:18 PM > > > RE: RE: RantNot me. I LOVE the cds. I copy them onto my hard drive > and > use the pdf versions. they are SEARCHABLE. > > I can find things much more quickly in the pdf's than paper. > > Oracle is the only product that I feel this way about .. > probably > because they have more documentation than the library of congress! > > -Original Message- > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:54 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have > been > costly. > > It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper > copies of > the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. > > Regards, > Patrice Boivin > Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) > > Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes > Technology Services| Services technologiques > Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique > Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO > > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- > Author: > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) > 538-5051 > FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / > Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the > message > BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of > mailing list > you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for > other > information (like subscribing). > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Don Granaman > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: kkennedy > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live
RE: Rant-Rant
Actually I'd think entj would be just about the ideal for a dba or sa. You have the leadership ability to ride herd on people (such as developers), are driven to keep up on the technical stuff, are well-organized enough to keep track of everything... I very aware of working against my natural instincts when I set up my backup and recovery plans, since improvisation and leaving things open is generally *not* advisable. "Oh, we'll figure it out as we go along" isn't a good choice there :), despite being my being rather good at doing just that. Jay -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 5:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L How about an ENTJ as a DBA and System Admin... I'm loads of fun with a bunch of touchy feely type SP's here at the college I work for ;-) Joe On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Miller, Jay wrote: > FYI: SJs make up about 40% of the population (app. 10% for each > sub-division). > > Jay Miller > infp (yeah, I know, what's an infp doing in a technical job... :) > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > That is why I use the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of the > population fits this profile. > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Miller, Jay > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Joe LaCascio INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Miller, Jay INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
oh goodie, now I can stop feeling badly over it :) I've learned that whenever I log into a database as a superuser (connect internal or / as sysdba) the FIRST command I issue is "select * from v$database" so that I confirm that I am in the database I think I'm in. just a habit, but one that stopped me cold from shutting down the forward-facing database, which would have effectively shutdown the website. --- "Jesse, Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That happens even to us SAs who are also DBAs (or vice versa). About > five > years ago, I was explaining DCL and VMS to a new co-worker and > describing > how I help protect against accidental file deletion by having > "DEL*ETE :== > DELETE/LOG/CONFIRM" in my SYS$LOGIN:LOGIN.COM. So, I confidently > issued a > "DEL *.*.*" -- in SYS$LIBRARY -- after running AUTOGEN. Seasoned VMS > SAs > know that AUTOGEN quietly deletes all global symbols, including those > protecting accidental file deletes. > > After a "Putz!" comment from our Operations group, the files were > given an > emergency restore. The thing is that I knew better. Doing DBA work > in > Oracle, however, has made me even more paranoid. Hasn't happened > since and > I don't rely on site addons to protect me from myself. > > "Now I know, and knowing is half the battle." > -- G.I.Joe, a real American Hero > > :) > > Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, > WI USA > > > -Original Message- > > From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 9:14 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: Re:RE: Rant > > > > > > you betcha. > > > > okay, I'll tell a story on myself. I really am usually very careful > > about doing something that is a sweeping change without > > checking either > > the directory I'm in or doing it so that I have to confirm. > > > > VAX/VMS, in my home directory. I could have SWORN I was in a temp > > directory, my login was supposed to be set up to tell me the > directory > > I was in. It wasn't, 'cause I did the VMS equivalent of "rm *" and > > deleted EVERYTHING in my home directory (scripts, notes, > > login profile) > > > > I very meekly called the data center and asked them to please > please > > restore my directory from the prior night's backup tape. After they > > stopped laughing, they made it a rush. See, I used to buy > > them pizza if > > I had to ask them to work late and do extra stuff. > > > > I know my limitations. I'm a pretty good general DBA but I ain't an > SA > > > > Rachel > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Jesse, Rich > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
what a nice way to put that :) maybe they are taking mental age into account and so think I'm about 16? either that or they have you confused with someone else, it was my understanding that they tag you as soon as you hit 50 --- "Toepke, Kevin M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hmmm... thats intersting. I'm somewhat your junior and I've been > getting > their propaganda for a couple of years already. > > -Original Message- > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:34 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > so sweet. so deluded. > > I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found > but close > > on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) > hasn't > started sending me their propaganda yet > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > > > Cheers > > > > > > -- > > = > > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > > = > > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > > = > > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > > > = > > > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > > confidential > > information. If you have received this transmission in error, > please > > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are > the > > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > > of > > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > cc: > > Fax to: > > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 > hour > > days". > > > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > > if > > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > > consultants > > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but > he's > > way too young for me. :) > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Rachel, > > > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > > the > > > luxury > > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one > person > > > and > > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > > > Tom Mercadante > > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > > >organization > > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they > rarely > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit > out > > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > > luxury > > > beyond belief. > > > > > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > > > > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > > > a new content management system project > > > a new ecommerce project > > > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement > project > > > the existing asset m
RE: PTFM? / Re:RE: RE: Rant
How about PARTFM (pronouned 'PartyFM' ;) ? - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 12:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L You can get a color laser printer cheaper than that. besides RTFM, is there going to now be PTFM? On 22 Jul 2002 at 12:36, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Patrice, > > You can still get them, you just have to order them seperatly at a platinum > plated cost. Last time I looked is was $1500 per set. > > Dick Goulet > > Reply Separator > Author: "Boivin; Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 7/22/2002 11:53 AM > > I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been > costly. > > It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of > the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
AMEN!!! Those yellow stickies all over the CD case just don't cut it and there is not enough screen space on any terminal I've seen that replaces multiple books open at the same time or books with paper weights holding them open to two separate sections for quick flipping. On the other hand, the CDs are easier to come by and I've learned to live with them. Kevin Kennedy First Point Energy Corporation -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:03 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L CDs have some advantages - expense, searchability, and storage space primarily, but... 1) CDs are more difficult to read in bed, on a plane, waiting in the terminal, etc. 2) Books are easier to read, require less equipment, and are more portable than a computer and a CD 3) Try having six different CD manuals open to related sections spread out in front of you - reading them while you work against the database. 4) An open book shows two full pages of information. An open PDF about half a page. 5) I could usually grab a manual and flip through it to the relevant info about 10x faster than a computer search - and with a lot less extraneous (click/point/scroll/type) activity. 6) Highlighters, margin notes, and sticky-note bookmarks don't work at all with CDs I miss hardcopy manuals! Don Granaman [certifiable OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:18 PM RE: RE: RantNot me. I LOVE the cds. I copy them onto my hard drive and use the pdf versions. they are SEARCHABLE. I can find things much more quickly in the pdf's than paper. Oracle is the only product that I feel this way about .. probably because they have more documentation than the library of congress! -Original Message- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been costly. It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: kkennedy INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
Gerald, Contact SANS, they are working on an Oracle step-by-step guide, they are looking for people who might want to volunteer as test sites. SANS Research Office [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Send e-mail with subject line: Oracle bench test. They are just collecting names for now, waiting for feedback on the last draft. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 1:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Rant Has anybody ever come across a virus that affects Oracle db's via sqlnet? Just curious how such a thing would work (have some ideas). There have to be thousands of vulnerable db's out there (sys/change_on_install, system/manager, etc.) (I've been reading Tom Clancy lately... Getting even more paranoid!) - Jerry -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 7:39 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Security is like insurance, people don't want to think about it. Like people in battle, everyone tells themselves that the person next to them will be the one to get shot. And they advance over the ridge, facing the sun... Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged, and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review, reliance, or distribution by others or forwarding without permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Cunningham, Gerald INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
PTFM? / Re:RE: RE: Rant
You can get a color laser printer cheaper than that. besides RTFM, is there going to now be PTFM? On 22 Jul 2002 at 12:36, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Patrice, > > You can still get them, you just have to order them seperatly at a platinum > plated cost. Last time I looked is was $1500 per set. > > Dick Goulet > > Reply Separator > Author: "Boivin; Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 7/22/2002 11:53 AM > > I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been > costly. > > It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of > the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Rant-Rant
oh, thanks, but they'll start sending me stuff next year and I can wait until then :) --- KENNETH JANUSZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What's your mailing address? I can make the arrangements for you. > > Ken Janusz,CPIM > > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 8:33 AM > > > > so sweet. so deluded. > > > > I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've > found > > but close > > > > on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) > hasn't > > started sending me their propaganda yet > > > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > -- > > > = > > > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > > > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > > > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > > > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > > > = > > > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > > > > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > > > = > > > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > > > > > = > > > > > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > > > confidential > > > information. If you have received this transmission in error, > please > > > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are > the > > > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom > Group > > > of > > > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > > > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > cc: > > > Fax to: > > > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > > > > > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs > (one > > > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > > > > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 > hour > > > days". > > > > > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact > that > > > if > > > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > > > consultants > > > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but > he's > > > way too young for me. :) > > > > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Rachel, > > > > > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not > have > > > the > > > > luxury > > > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one > person > > > > and > > > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > > > > > Tom Mercadante > > > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > > > >organization > > > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they > rarely > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit > out > > > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > > > luxury > &g
RE: RE: Rant
That happens even to us SAs who are also DBAs (or vice versa). About five years ago, I was explaining DCL and VMS to a new co-worker and describing how I help protect against accidental file deletion by having "DEL*ETE :== DELETE/LOG/CONFIRM" in my SYS$LOGIN:LOGIN.COM. So, I confidently issued a "DEL *.*.*" -- in SYS$LIBRARY -- after running AUTOGEN. Seasoned VMS SAs know that AUTOGEN quietly deletes all global symbols, including those protecting accidental file deletes. After a "Putz!" comment from our Operations group, the files were given an emergency restore. The thing is that I knew better. Doing DBA work in Oracle, however, has made me even more paranoid. Hasn't happened since and I don't rely on site addons to protect me from myself. "Now I know, and knowing is half the battle." -- G.I.Joe, a real American Hero :) Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA > -Original Message- > From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 9:14 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: Re:RE: Rant > > > you betcha. > > okay, I'll tell a story on myself. I really am usually very careful > about doing something that is a sweeping change without > checking either > the directory I'm in or doing it so that I have to confirm. > > VAX/VMS, in my home directory. I could have SWORN I was in a temp > directory, my login was supposed to be set up to tell me the directory > I was in. It wasn't, 'cause I did the VMS equivalent of "rm *" and > deleted EVERYTHING in my home directory (scripts, notes, > login profile) > > I very meekly called the data center and asked them to please please > restore my directory from the prior night's backup tape. After they > stopped laughing, they made it a rush. See, I used to buy > them pizza if > I had to ask them to work late and do extra stuff. > > I know my limitations. I'm a pretty good general DBA but I ain't an SA > > Rachel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
Has anybody ever come across a virus that affects Oracle db's via sqlnet? Just curious how such a thing would work (have some ideas). There have to be thousands of vulnerable db's out there (sys/change_on_install, system/manager, etc.) (I've been reading Tom Clancy lately... Getting even more paranoid!) - Jerry -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 7:39 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Security is like insurance, people don't want to think about it. Like people in battle, everyone tells themselves that the person next to them will be the one to get shot. And they advance over the ridge, facing the sun... Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged, and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review, reliance, or distribution by others or forwarding without permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Cunningham, Gerald INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
Hmmm... thats intersting. I'm somewhat your junior and I've been getting their propaganda for a couple of years already. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L so sweet. so deluded. I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found but close on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) hasn't started sending me their propaganda yet --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > Cheers > > > -- > = > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > = > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > = > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > = > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > confidential > information. If you have received this transmission in error, please > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > of > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > cc: > Fax to: > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour > days". > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > if > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > consultants > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's > way too young for me. :) > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rachel, > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > the > > luxury > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person > > and > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > Tom Mercadante > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > >organization > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > > have > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > luxury > > beyond belief. > > > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > > a new content management system project > > a new ecommerce project > > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project > > the existing asset management application > > the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) > > > > and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other > > DBAs > > around .. > > > > oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as > > well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling > > experience, other than "common sense" > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > OMG! A Socialist in the group! > > > > > > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we > ask > > > > > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > > > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and > > free > > > up my > &g
Re: Rant-Rant
AARP has already stopped sending me propaganda. I think I am the oldest on the list. RBG - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:33 AM > so sweet. so deluded. > > I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found > but close > > on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) hasn't > started sending me their propaganda yet > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > > > Cheers > > > > > > -- > > = > > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > > = > > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > > = > > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > > > = > > > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > > confidential > > information. If you have received this transmission in error, please > > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the > > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > > of > > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > cc: > > Fax to: > > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour > > days". > > > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > > if > > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > > consultants > > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's > > way too young for me. :) > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Rachel, > > > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > > the > > > luxury > > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person > > > and > > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > > > Tom Mercadante > > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > > >organization > > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out > > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > > luxury > > > beyond belief. > > > > > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > > > > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > > > a new content management system project > > > a new ecommerce project > > > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project > > > the existing asset management application > > > the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) > > > > > > and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other > > > DBAs > > > around .. > > > > > > oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as > > > well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling > >
RE: Rant-Rant
OH, to be young again and know what I know now. AARP has some nice offers when you travel. Mentioning the youth in management, At my last job (pre golden handshake) I loved letting my manager know that "I had more time in the company then they had on the face of the earth." . It helped when discussions and decisions had to be made by the group. The wisdom of the silver hair helped. Ron ROR mª¿ªm >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/23/02 09:33AM >>> so sweet. so deluded. I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found but close on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) hasn't started sending me their propaganda yet --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > Cheers > > > -- > = > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > = > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > = > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > = > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > confidential > information. If you have received this transmission in error, please > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > of > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > cc: > Fax to: > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour > days". > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > if > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > consultants > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's > way too young for me. :) > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rachel, > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > the > > luxury > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person > > and > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > Tom Mercadante > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > >organization > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > > have > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > luxury > > beyond belief. > > > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > > a new content management system project > > a new ecommerce project > > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project > > the existing asset management application > > the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) > > > > and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other > > DBAs > > around .. > > > > oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as > > well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling > > experience, other than "common sense" > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > OMG! A Socialist in the group! > > > > > > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we > as
Re: Rant-Rant
What's your mailing address? I can make the arrangements for you. Ken Janusz,CPIM - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 8:33 AM > so sweet. so deluded. > > I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found > but close > > on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) hasn't > started sending me their propaganda yet > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > > > Cheers > > > > > > -- > > = > > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > > = > > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > > = > > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > > > = > > > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > > confidential > > information. If you have received this transmission in error, please > > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the > > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > > of > > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > cc: > > Fax to: > > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour > > days". > > > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > > if > > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > > consultants > > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's > > way too young for me. :) > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Rachel, > > > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > > the > > > luxury > > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person > > > and > > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > > > Tom Mercadante > > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > > >organization > > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out > > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > > luxury > > > beyond belief. > > > > > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > > > > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > > > a new content management system project > > > a new ecommerce project > > > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project > > > the existing asset management application > > > the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) > > > > > > and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other > > > DBAs > > > around .. > > > > > > oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as > > > well... which is REALL
RE: Rant
>-Anniversary >-Wife's birthday Suck up. ;o) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L For me, two things are embedded in permanent memory Anniversary Wife's birthday All that is good flows from these >(see, I NEVER remember the exact SQL statement, I always hit the >reference manual for syntax. There is limited storage space in my >brain, if I memorize syntax I have to forget something else... like how >to think logically) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robert Monical INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
so sweet. so deluded. I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found but close on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) hasn't started sending me their propaganda yet --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > Cheers > > > -- > = > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > = > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > = > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > = > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > confidential > information. If you have received this transmission in error, please > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > of > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > cc: > Fax to: > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour > days". > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > if > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > consultants > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's > way too young for me. :) > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rachel, > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > the > > luxury > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person > > and > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > Tom Mercadante > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > >organization > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > > have > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > luxury > > beyond belief. > > > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > > a new content management system project > > a new ecommerce project > > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project > > the existing asset management application > > the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) > > > > and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other > > DBAs > > around .. > > > > oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as > > well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling > > experience, other than "common sense" > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > OMG! A Socialist in the group! > > > > > > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we > ask > > > > > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > > > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and > > free > > > up my > > > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire > > > society > > > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a > > bunch > > > of > > > great people in the process." >
Re: RE: Rant
Banish him to the hinter lands, (where ever they are) and let us purify the list! And Gary, I have root privileges! Ruth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:49 PM > hey - who is this SA and what is he doing here? this is where us'n DBA's > get to trash everybody else. > > go away! > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:10 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > um, I'd schedule step 6 AFTER the backup finishes... I've seen idiot > > SA's who start the backup then shutdown the machine or kill the > > process before it completes. > > Yeah? And there's a good reason we SAs keep root privileges away from > you DBAs. :-)) > > Gary Chambers > > //- > // Lucent Technologies GIO/Unix > // 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886 > // 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager) > // Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft > //- > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Gary Chambers > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Mercadante, Thomas F > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Rant
I start those discussions with "are you SURE you want to depend on me being ethical and honest as your security policy?" --- Tim Gorman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I agree that the "glory" is in tuning, but I also think > backup/recovery gets > a sufficient amount of respect. It's nice now that advocating RMAN > isn't > considered snake-oil... > > Where I get funny looks these days is when I discuss database > security. I > try to defuse the tension by quoting the old saw about "just because > you're > paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you", but people still > fidget > and look away in pity as if I've lost my mind. I asked two audiences > recently how many people utilize the SYSOPER role, and only one > person in > the second audience raised his hand. Similar effect if you ask about > password management... > > ...I have to admit that some of the scarier folks are the ones who > agree > totally, though... :-) > > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 8:28 PM > > > > mkb, you're right, the "glory" is in tuning nowadays, but i beg to > > differ, since if you can't/won't do recovery when the chips are > down, > > then the point is moot. > > > > I specialize in backup/recovery but getting damagement to think its > > important today when the db is running fine, is tough. Its only > when > > its time to do recovery does damagement all of a sudden think its > important. > > > > Joe > > > > > > mkb wrote: > > > > >Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > > > >Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > > >the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > > >about 2-3 years experience. > > > > > >I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > > >think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > > >questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > > >based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > > >someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > > >resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > > >intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > > >luck! > > > > > >What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > > >get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > > >had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > > >recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > > >claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > > >level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > > >about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > > >I got were completely off base, baffling and > > >frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > > >years experience!!! > > > > > >'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > > >these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > > >done this???) > > > > > >'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > > >datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not > > >how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > > > >'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > > >starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > > > > > >'During this time, everything is written to the redo > > >logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > > >reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > > > >I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > > >backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > > >got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > > >what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > > >know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > > >asked every candidate how they would do an online > > >recover of a datafile while the database was still in > > >use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > > > >I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this > > >list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > > >knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > > >much? > > > > > >Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > > > > >mkb > > > > > > > > >__ > > >Do You Yahoo!? > > >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > > >http://health.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Joe Testa > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like > subscribing). > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Tim Gorman > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City
Re: Rant
my constant comment to management is If I am doing my job right, you should be wondering why you are paying me this much money. When the world blows up and I fix it, fast, you will KNOW why you are --- Joe Testa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > mkb, you're right, the "glory" is in tuning nowadays, but i beg to > differ, since if you can't/won't do recovery when the chips are down, > > then the point is moot. > > I specialize in backup/recovery but getting damagement to think its > important today when the db is running fine, is tough. Its only when > > its time to do recovery does damagement all of a sudden think its > important. > > Joe > > > mkb wrote: > > >Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > >Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > >the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > >about 2-3 years experience. > > > >I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > >think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > >questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > >based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > >someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > >resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > >intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > >luck! > > > >What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > >get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > >had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > >recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > >claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > >level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > >about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > >I got were completely off base, baffling and > >frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > >years experience!!! > > > >'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > >these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > >done this???) > > > >'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > >datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not > >how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > >'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > >starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > > > >'During this time, everything is written to the redo > >logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > >reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > >I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > >backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > >got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > >what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > >know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > >asked every candidate how they would do an online > >recover of a datafile while the database was still in > >use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > >I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this > >list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > >knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > >much? > > > >Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > > >mkb > > > > > >__ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > >http://health.yahoo.com > > > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Joe Testa > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Rant
But if you restore to a clone and then export and import you won't have the tablespace offline will you? RBG - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 1:53 AM > What Ruth describes is "tablespace point in time recovery" or incomplete > recovery. I believe the question was about performing complete recovery on > a single tablespace while the rest of the database is in use. (I could be > wrong in this assumption.) > > If a single tablespace (other than SYSTEM!) needs complete recovery, then: > > 1) SQL> alter tablespace BAD_ONE offline; > 2) restore corrupted tablespace datafile(s) from backup > 3) restore archive log(s) from backup if necessary > 4) SQL> recover tablespace BAD_ONE; > 5) SQL> alter tablespace BAD_ONE online; > > While this is happening, object in other tablespaces are fully accessible, > except that there may be some issues with objects in other tablespaces that > reference objects in the BAD_ONE tablespace (e.g. foreign key constraints > referencingtables in BAD_ONE, tables in other tablespaces with CLOBs stored > out-of-line in BAD_ONE, tables with primary or unique key constraint indexes > in BAD_ONE, etc.). There are a few variations on the theme for step 5 - for > example, "recover datafile" perhaps if all the datafiles for the tablespace > are not corrupted. > > Don Granaman > [certifiable OraSaurus] > > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:13 PM > > > You have to restore the tablespace with the datafile you want to restore to > a clone database and export the datafile's contents from the clone and > import it into the database with the bad datafile. > > HTH, > R > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 12:13 PM > > > I read your rant, and I agree with you. But I do have > one little itsy bitsy question... > > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > > asked every candidate how they would do an online > > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > > use. No ideas. Not even close. > > How DO you do an online recovery of a datafile while the > database is still in use? I've had to do recoveries before, > but never this scenario. > > Thanks, > Mike > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Ruth Gramolini > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Don Granaman > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REM
RE: Rant
Security is like insurance, people don't want to think about it. Like people in battle, everyone tells themselves that the person next to them will be the one to get shot. And they advance over the ridge, facing the sun... Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Rant
What Ruth describes is "tablespace point in time recovery" or incomplete recovery. I believe the question was about performing complete recovery on a single tablespace while the rest of the database is in use. (I could be wrong in this assumption.) If a single tablespace (other than SYSTEM!) needs complete recovery, then: 1) SQL> alter tablespace BAD_ONE offline; 2) restore corrupted tablespace datafile(s) from backup 3) restore archive log(s) from backup if necessary 4) SQL> recover tablespace BAD_ONE; 5) SQL> alter tablespace BAD_ONE online; While this is happening, object in other tablespaces are fully accessible, except that there may be some issues with objects in other tablespaces that reference objects in the BAD_ONE tablespace (e.g. foreign key constraints referencingtables in BAD_ONE, tables in other tablespaces with CLOBs stored out-of-line in BAD_ONE, tables with primary or unique key constraint indexes in BAD_ONE, etc.). There are a few variations on the theme for step 5 - for example, "recover datafile" perhaps if all the datafiles for the tablespace are not corrupted. Don Granaman [certifiable OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:13 PM You have to restore the tablespace with the datafile you want to restore to a clone database and export the datafile's contents from the clone and import it into the database with the bad datafile. HTH, R - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 12:13 PM I read your rant, and I agree with you. But I do have one little itsy bitsy question... > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > asked every candidate how they would do an online > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > use. No ideas. Not even close. How DO you do an online recovery of a datafile while the database is still in use? I've had to do recoveries before, but never this scenario. Thanks, Mike -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-)
Cheers
--
=
Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com
APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461
Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238
Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048
=
A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do.
- Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist)
=
Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision"
=
This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is confidential
information. If you have received this transmission in error, please
delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the
opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group of
companies unless expressly stated otherwise.
Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22-07-2002 07:08 PM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Fax to:
Subject:RE: Rant-Rant
Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one
senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant.
I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour
days".
Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that if
there is too much work for one person, we will either hire consultants
or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's
way too young for me. :)
--- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rachel,
>
> you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have the
> luxury
> (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff.
>
> Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person
> and
> work-em till they drop is the current motto.
>
> Tom Mercadante
> Oracle Certified Professional
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical
> >organization
> >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely
> have
>
>
>
> excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out
> when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a luxury
> beyond belief.
>
> As I type this I am the DBA for:
>
> a new data mart/data warehouse project
> a new content management system project
> a new ecommerce project
> the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project
> the existing asset management application
> the existing "community" site (bulletin boards)
>
> and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other
> DBAs
> around ..
>
> oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as
> well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling
> experience, other than "common sense"
>
>
> --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > OMG! A Socialist in the group!
> >
> > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask
>
> > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our
> > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and
> free
> > up my
> > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire
> > society
> > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a
> bunch
> > of
> > great people in the process."
> >
> > The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical
> > organization
> > will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely
> > have the
> > cash for multiple people. So a DBA ends up getting called upon do
> > cross the
> > boundary between very technical stuff as part of the SA group and
> > data
> > access/design with the applications group. Lots of room in between
> > here for
> > talented people.
> >
> > Tom Mercadante
> > Oracle Certified Professional
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > I have been reading this list for the past several months as I
> > prepare to
> > move my universe of databases
Re: RE: Rant
CDs have some advantages - expense, searchability, and storage space primarily, but... 1) CDs are more difficult to read in bed, on a plane, waiting in the terminal, etc. 2) Books are easier to read, require less equipment, and are more portable than a computer and a CD 3) Try having six different CD manuals open to related sections spread out in front of you - reading them while you work against the database. 4) An open book shows two full pages of information. An open PDF about half a page. 5) I could usually grab a manual and flip through it to the relevant info about 10x faster than a computer search - and with a lot less extraneous (click/point/scroll/type) activity. 6) Highlighters, margin notes, and sticky-note bookmarks don't work at all with CDs I miss hardcopy manuals! Don Granaman [certifiable OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:18 PM RE: RE: RantNot me. I LOVE the cds. I copy them onto my hard drive and use the pdf versions. they are SEARCHABLE. I can find things much more quickly in the pdf's than paper. Oracle is the only product that I feel this way about .. probably because they have more documentation than the library of congress! -Original Message- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been costly. It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Rant
I agree that the "glory" is in tuning, but I also think backup/recovery gets a sufficient amount of respect. It's nice now that advocating RMAN isn't considered snake-oil... Where I get funny looks these days is when I discuss database security. I try to defuse the tension by quoting the old saw about "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you", but people still fidget and look away in pity as if I've lost my mind. I asked two audiences recently how many people utilize the SYSOPER role, and only one person in the second audience raised his hand. Similar effect if you ask about password management... ...I have to admit that some of the scarier folks are the ones who agree totally, though... :-) - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 8:28 PM > mkb, you're right, the "glory" is in tuning nowadays, but i beg to > differ, since if you can't/won't do recovery when the chips are down, > then the point is moot. > > I specialize in backup/recovery but getting damagement to think its > important today when the db is running fine, is tough. Its only when > its time to do recovery does damagement all of a sudden think its important. > > Joe > > > mkb wrote: > > >Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > >Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > >the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > >about 2-3 years experience. > > > >I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > >think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > >questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > >based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > >someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > >resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > >intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > >luck! > > > >What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > >get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > >had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > >recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > >claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > >level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > >about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > >I got were completely off base, baffling and > >frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > >years experience!!! > > > >'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > >these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > >done this???) > > > >'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > >datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not > >how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > >'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > >starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > > > >'During this time, everything is written to the redo > >logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > >reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > >I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > >backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > >got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > >what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > >know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > >asked every candidate how they would do an online > >recover of a datafile while the database was still in > >use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > >I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this > >list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > >knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > >much? > > > >Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > > >mkb > > > > > >__ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > >http://health.yahoo.com > > > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Joe Testa > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be re
Re: RE: RE: Rant
Yes, of course. Because they are not Oracle. On Monday 22 July 2002 19:08, you wrote: > Self-healing... did it have gaping wounds before? > > Regards, > Patrice Boivin > Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 8:02 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: RE: RE: Rant > > Yes. I do. Because they're IBM. > > Quoting "Gogala, Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Do you believe them? > > > > Mladen Gogala > > Oracle DBA > > Phone: (203) 459-6855 > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant > > > > > > > > > IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing. > > > > > > ltiu > > > > > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park > > > > > > his/her stupid > > > > > > > cartesian product sql statement!! > > > > > > > > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. > > > > > > > > Dick Goulet > > > > > > > > Reply Separator > > > > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM > > > > > > > > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need > > > > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. > > > > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will > > > > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the > > > > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread > > > > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum > > > > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office > > > > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of > > > > "I have a dream" speach. > > > > > > -- > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > > -- > > > Author: ltiu > > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Gogala, Mladen > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
hey, I'm an infj -- according to the out placement company, I'd make a good nun (Robert, did you see my test results?) --- "Miller, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > FYI: SJs make up about 40% of the population (app. 10% for each > sub-division). > > Jay Miller > infp (yeah, I know, what's an infp doing in a technical job... :) > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > That is why I use the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending > 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs > type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of > the > population fits this profile. > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Miller, Jay > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Rant
mkb, you're right, the "glory" is in tuning nowadays, but i beg to differ, since if you can't/won't do recovery when the chips are down, then the point is moot. I specialize in backup/recovery but getting damagement to think its important today when the db is running fine, is tough. Its only when its time to do recovery does damagement all of a sudden think its important. Joe mkb wrote: >Ok, I need to vent a little. > >Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over >the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with >about 2-3 years experience. > >I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I >think that I ask particularly tough questions. The >questions that I ask potential candidates are soley >based on what is on the resume. So I figure if >someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their >resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly >intelligent conversation about these topics. No such >luck! > >What really frustrated me, and what I really want to >get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, >had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about >recovery. I asked each and every candidate who >claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high >level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care >about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers >I got were completely off base, baffling and >frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 >years experience!!! > >'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how >these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've >done this???) > >'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the >datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not >how a hot backup is done, right?) > >'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup >starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > >'During this time, everything is written to the redo >logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been >reading one of those books, haven't you?) > >I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in >backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them >got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to >what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't >know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I >asked every candidate how they would do an online >recover of a datafile while the database was still in >use. No ideas. Not even close. > >I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this >list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as >knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too >much? > >Rant over. Thanks for listening. > >mkb > > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better >http://health.yahoo.com > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: RE: Rant
Self-healing... did it have gaping wounds before? Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 8:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: RE: RE: Rant Yes. I do. Because they're IBM. Quoting "Gogala, Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Do you believe them? > > Mladen Gogala > Oracle DBA > Phone: (203) 459-6855 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant > > > > > > IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing. > > > > ltiu > > > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > > > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park > > his/her stupid > > > cartesian product sql statement!! > > > > > > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. > > > > > > Dick Goulet > > > > > > Reply Separator > > > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM > > > > > > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need > > > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. > > > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will > > > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the > > > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread > > > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum > > > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office > > > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of > > > "I have a dream" speach. > > > > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: ltiu > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Gogala, Mladen > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour days". Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that if there is too much work for one person, we will either hire consultants or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's way too young for me. :) --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Rachel, > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have the > luxury > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person > and > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > Tom Mercadante > Oracle Certified Professional > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > >organization > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > have > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a luxury > beyond belief. > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > a new content management system project > a new ecommerce project > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project > the existing asset management application > the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) > > and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other > DBAs > around .. > > oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as > well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling > experience, other than "common sense" > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > OMG! A Socialist in the group! > > > > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask > > > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and > free > > up my > > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire > > society > > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a > bunch > > of > > great people in the process." > > > > The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > organization > > will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > > have the > > cash for multiple people. So a DBA ends up getting called upon do > > cross the > > boundary between very technical stuff as part of the SA group and > > data > > access/design with the applications group. Lots of room in between > > here for > > talented people. > > > > Tom Mercadante > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > I have been reading this list for the past several months as I > > prepare to > > move my universe of databases from 7.3 to 9 (probably 9) and I have > a > > rant > > of my own. > > > > It seems that the implicit expectation is that every DBA should be > or > > > > should aspire to be a Master Technical DBA. > > I have a slightly different take on the situation. It is a little > > convoluted but I believe that the DBA world needs some additional > job > > > > classifications. In a decent sized organization, the day to day > > management > > functions should be accomplished by an Admin DBA who might be > someone > > who > > was perfectly happy spending his/her working career operating a > > precision > > milling machine at Boeing. Since the machinist jobs are going away, > I > > see > > no reason why a competent machinist could not become a competent > > admin DBA. > > Such a person is not suited by aptitude or disposition to become a > > Master > > Technical DBA, but would do a great job at the admin level. > > > > I'll extend the analogy a little more: the manufacturing > organization > > does > > not expect the machinist to program the machine. They either have > on > > staff > > or bring in a numerical control programming specialist. Similarly, > > the > > Admin DBA should know which tasks he/she can perform and which > tasks > > should > > be kicked up or out to the next level. > > > > So maybe some of the energy spent on this list about relevance of > the > > OCP > > and discussing qualifications of DBAs (against an unspecified > > standard) > > could be spent defining organizational strategies for getting the > > best use > > out of human capital represented by "Admin DBAs" and pricing the > > skill set > > appropriately. The worst possible thing is to get an Admin DBA into > a > > > > Technical DBA position. > > > > I think the key breakthrough is the notion that there is a DBA > track > > that > > doe
RE: RE: Rant
I was about to say "I won't be working anymore for Oracle version 27i". and then I realized that at the rate Oracle is releasing new versions, that would be next year so I'll probably still be doing this stuff --- "Gogala, Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of > "I have a dream" speach. > > > -Original Message- > > From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:20 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: Re:RE: Rant > > > > > > um no, I mean they are redoing it AGAIN > > > > I love Oracle, it provides me with an ever and ever steeper > learning > > curve > > > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > YUP, Saw the new version at an Oracle event in Boston a couple > of > > > months ago. > > > Seems that nothing is sacred anymore. BTW: Installer changes > too, > > > now you need > > > a full multimedia terminal, 4 channel audio & VR headset > > recommended. > > > :o) > > > > > > Dick Goulet > > > > > > Reply Separator > > > Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Date: 7/22/2002 9:53 AM > > > > > > you can see how often I use the GUI :) > > > > > > OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from > a > > > fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that > > Oracle's changing > > > it all again. > > > > > > T > > > --- April Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button > geez > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > > > > Good rant. :) > > > > > > > > I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is "I click on > this > > > item > > > > on the GUI..." (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory > > > behind > > > > that little radio button) > > > > > > > > > > > > --- mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > > > > > > > > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > > > > > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > > > > > about 2-3 years experience. > > > > > > > > > > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > > > > > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > > > > > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > > > > > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > > > > > someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > > > > > resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > > > > > intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > > > > > luck! > > > > > > > > > > What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > > > > > get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > > > > > had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > > > > > recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > > > > > claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > > > > > level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > > > > > about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > > > > > I got were completely off base, baffling and > > > > > frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > > > > > years experience!!! > > > > > > > > > > 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > > > > > these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > > > > > done this???) > > > > > > > > > > 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > > > > > datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not > > > > > how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > > > > > > > > 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > > > > > starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > > > > > > > > > > 'During this time, everything is written to the redo > > > > > logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > > > > > reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > > > > > > > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > > > > > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > > > > > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > > > > > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > > > > > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > > > > > asked every candidate how they would do an online > > > > > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > > > > > use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > > > > > > > > I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member
RE: Rant
There is a Dilbert comic that reads: I SUMMON THE VAST POWER OF CERTIFICATION! And nothing happens. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 5:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Rant I don't suppose that "we've been told some things about oracle during my MSCE seminars" would land me a DBA job? > -Original Message- > From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:29 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: Rant > > > "and if Rachel were to become a Nun" My mother would start sitting > shiva, because as far as she would be concerned, I'd have died :) > > I did love the interview I gave once: > > Me: Okay, so last few questions. How do you learn about Oracle? > Interviewee: Oh, I read the manuals, read the Oracle-l (I can see the > light dawning) you're .. Rachel Carmichael > > > > > --- "Freeman, Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The interview (exerpts from some of my actual ones, and then some > > made up) > > > > We are in my cube. I've studied the resume for Mr. Morias, who is a > > Portuguese national who's degree is from University who's name I > > can't > > pronounce and who's credentials I can't verify. He is a brand new > > OCP. > > > > Me: Good day Mr. (looks again at resume, I have a short term memory) > > Morias. > > > > Interviewee: Oi ai senhor, esta bom encontraa-lo. > > > > Me: Sir, I didn't understand you, please try again.. > > > > Interviewee: Sorry sir, I forget I need speak English. Good day sir. > > > > Me: So, let's start our interview, shall we. Tell me what a rollback > > segment > > is please. > > > > Interviewee: It is the method by which Oracle database store all > > database > > changes. It is used during recovery. > > > > Me: (Figuring we have made a Jr. DBA type mistake here) Ok... and > > tell me > > about a redo log. > > > > Interviewee: It used to provide consistent image to database users. > > Oracle > > has automated redo in Oracle9i. > > > > Me: Are you sure that you don't have these kind of turned around? > > Redo logs > > are used for recovery, rollback segments are used for read > > consistency. > > > > Interviewee: No, you are mistaken, I know it is as I described. I've > > been a > > DBA for 10 years, I know what I am doing. > > > > Me: Ok... so, when you have a problem with a database, what > do you do > > to > > solve the problem? > > > > Interviewee: I go to ORACLE-L and ask Rachel, she know everything. > > > > Me: And if she is on vacation or not responding to questions? > > > > Interviewee: I wait for Rachel to return. > > > > Me: And if Rachel were to become a Nun and never grace ORACLE-L > > again? > > > > Interviewee: I check out Lazy DBA, Mike Ault is there. > > > > Me: AND if the Internet were unavailable? > > > > Interviewee: (thinks for a second) I call Oracle? > > > > Me: What about the manuals? > > > > Interviewee: Oracle has Manuals? I've never seen them. > > > > > > > > > > Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP > > Oracle Database Architect > > CSX Midtier Database Administration > > Author > > Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press - Oct 2002) > > Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press) > > Mastering Oracle8i (Sybex) > > > > Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're > bad luck? > > Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I > > guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and > > your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' > > crazy. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:54 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > you can see how often I use the GUI :) > > > > OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a > > fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that
Re: Re[2]:RE: Rant
mine have too... but as a generic rule, I'd wait until the backup was done, unless I trusted my SA --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Rachel, > > You can say that if you want, I trust my SA's. And that they've > earned the > HARD way. > > Dick Goulet > > Reply Separator > Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 7/22/2002 11:15 AM > > um, I'd schedule step 6 AFTER the backup finishes... I've seen idiot > SA's who start the backup then shutdown the machine or kill the > process > before it completes. > > > :) > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I have, no fun. But at least your only fooling around with one > > tablespace > > and/or file vs. the entire database. The method is rather simple: > > > > 1) The tablespace/datafile are already offline, SMON does this > > for you > > unless it's SYSTEM in which case your not doing this in the first > > place. > > > > 2) Get your SA to restore the datafiles(s) from tape back to > > where they > > belong. > > > > 3) startup SQL*Plus as internal. > > > > 4) Alter database recover tablespace/datafile as you normally > > would. > > > > 5) Alter tablespace/datafile online. > > > > 6) Miller time. (After the SA schedules/starts a hot backup of > > the entire > > DB). > > > > Want to try one? Take a DB that's in archive log mode & either in > > development > > or test. Use production ONLY if your suicidal. Take the datafile > or > > tablespace > > offline for a little while. Now try to bring it back online. Then > > go to step 4 > > above. > > > > Dick Goulet > > > > Reply Separator > > Author: "Vergara; Michael (TEM)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 7/22/2002 8:13 AM > > > > I read your rant, and I agree with you. But I do have > > one little itsy bitsy question... > > > > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > > > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > > > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > > > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > > > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > > > asked every candidate how they would do an online > > > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > > > use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > > How DO you do an online recovery of a datafile while the > > database is still in use? I've had to do recoveries before, > > but never this scenario. > > > > Thanks, > > Mike > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > > Lists > > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like > subscribing). > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > > Lists > > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like > subscribing). > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Rachel Carmichael > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, Californ
RE: Rant
oh it was great... cause as he realized that I was the person from the list, he started speaking slower and slower... What I'd love just once, is to walk into an office for an interview and see one of my books on the bookshelf. I figure that would make that interview a "gimme" --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Rachel, > > now THAT must have been funny as all hell! > > Tom Mercadante > Oracle Certified Professional > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:29 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > "and if Rachel were to become a Nun" My mother would start > sitting > shiva, because as far as she would be concerned, I'd have died :) > > I did love the interview I gave once: > > Me: Okay, so last few questions. How do you learn about Oracle? > Interviewee: Oh, I read the manuals, read the Oracle-l (I can see the > light dawning) you're .. Rachel Carmichael > > > > > --- "Freeman, Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The interview (exerpts from some of my actual ones, and then some > > made up) > > > > We are in my cube. I've studied the resume for Mr. Morias, who is a > > Portuguese national who's degree is from University who's name I > > can't > > pronounce and who's credentials I can't verify. He is a brand new > > OCP. > > > > Me: Good day Mr. (looks again at resume, I have a short term > memory) > > Morias. > > > > Interviewee: Oi ai senhor, esta bom encontraa-lo. > > > > Me: Sir, I didn't understand you, please try again.. > > > > Interviewee: Sorry sir, I forget I need speak English. Good day > sir. > > > > Me: So, let's start our interview, shall we. Tell me what a > rollback > > segment > > is please. > > > > Interviewee: It is the method by which Oracle database store all > > database > > changes. It is used during recovery. > > > > Me: (Figuring we have made a Jr. DBA type mistake here) Ok... and > > tell me > > about a redo log. > > > > Interviewee: It used to provide consistent image to database users. > > Oracle > > has automated redo in Oracle9i. > > > > Me: Are you sure that you don't have these kind of turned around? > > Redo logs > > are used for recovery, rollback segments are used for read > > consistency. > > > > Interviewee: No, you are mistaken, I know it is as I described. > I've > > been a > > DBA for 10 years, I know what I am doing. > > > > Me: Ok... so, when you have a problem with a database, what do you > do > > to > > solve the problem? > > > > Interviewee: I go to ORACLE-L and ask Rachel, she know everything. > > > > Me: And if she is on vacation or not responding to questions? > > > > Interviewee: I wait for Rachel to return. > > > > Me: And if Rachel were to become a Nun and never grace ORACLE-L > > again? > > > > Interviewee: I check out Lazy DBA, Mike Ault is there. > > > > Me: AND if the Internet were unavailable? > > > > Interviewee: (thinks for a second) I call Oracle? > > > > Me: What about the manuals? > > > > Interviewee: Oracle has Manuals? I've never seen them. > > > > > > > > > > Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP > > Oracle Database Architect > > CSX Midtier Database Administration > > Author > > Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press - Oct 2002) > > Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press) > > Mastering Oracle8i (Sybex) > > > > Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad > luck? > > Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I > > guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and > > your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' > > crazy. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:54 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > you can see how often I use the GUI :) > > > > OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a > > fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that Oracle's > changing > > it all again. > > > > T > > --- April Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button geez > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > Good rant. :) > > > > > > I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is "I click on this > > item > > > on the GUI..." (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory > > behind > > > that little radio button) > > > > > > > > > --- mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > > > > > > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > > > > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > > > > about 2-3 years experience. > > > > > > > > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > > > > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > > > > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > > > > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > > > > someone has, say, ho
RE: Rant
Paul, Um, would it be possible to get a copy of that "book"? I just save all the really good messages on this list in my inbox. And the email addresses of all the people I know who are really good. The interview for this job, I knew I was doing well when the person interviewing me (it was obvious he was asking about the problems he was having on his current system) started saying "wait, I should be writing this all down" Rachel --- "Sherman, Paul R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > For what it's worth: > > I have maintained an Oracle/UNIX/Oracle Apps 'how to' two-column word > table > document for years and years and... If I ever have to go to another > job > interview, my gut feeling is that I should take this 'book' with me, > as I > too, need help remembering the syntax (just wait until you are over > 50). > When called for, I save an object into the table row in question (a > description of the issue/subject goes into the 1st column) that may > include > screenshots along with the full explanation. The book is now many > pages > long, so it helps to have a fast PC. > > And here's the best part: some of the better stuff from the 'list' > has made > its way into the book, with the originator's name. So, if you ever > find > yourself interviewing someone, who, when asked a question, refers to > his > laptop, saying, "just a second, I know that one", chances are very > good that > its me. Have mercy. And now that I think about it, perhaps not such a > bad > idea to say, "oh yeah, and I got that information from Rachael, or > Tom, or > Dick, etc., or Jared (better mention him, eh?). > > Thank you, > > Paul Sherman > DBAElcom, Inc. > voice - 781-501-4143 (direct #) > fax- 781-278-8341 (secure) > email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:15 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > OH MY GOD, someone remembers what I said? thank goodness it worked. > > I've learned that my first, panicked reaction is almost invariably, > if > not wrong, certainly not the best way to fix something. Taking time > to > THINK instead of jumping in and mucking about is usually best. > > you can now see how bad *my* memory is, I can't remember what that > magic command was :) Was it the alter datafile out of backup mode > one? > > (see, I NEVER remember the exact SQL statement, I always hit the > reference manual for syntax. There is limited storage space in my > brain, if I memorize syntax I have to forget something else... like > how > to think logically) > > > > --- "Baker, Barbara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hm. > > these are almost verbatim the instructions I got from Rachel > > Charmichael > > after we lost a disk drive and I'd been trying to recover a > database > > for > > nearly 20 hours. (That was immediately before she steered me > towards > > the > > magic command that recovered the database.) > > > > --- > > > > > Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, what do you do. > > > Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look in recovery > > manual. > > > > > > We hired the guy, he's still here 2 years later and just recently > > got his > > > OCP. > > > > > > Dick Goulet > > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Baker, Barbara > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > > Lists > > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like > subscribing). > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Rachel Carmichael > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Sherman, Paul R. > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX
RE: RE: RE: Rant
Yes. I do. Because they're IBM. Quoting "Gogala, Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Do you believe them? > > Mladen Gogala > Oracle DBA > Phone: (203) 459-6855 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant > > > > > > IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing. > > > > ltiu > > > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > > > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park > > his/her stupid > > > cartesian product sql statement!! > > > > > > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. > > > > > > Dick Goulet > > > > > > Reply Separator > > > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM > > > > > > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need > > > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. > > > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will > > > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the > > > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread > > > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum > > > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office > > > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of > > > "I have a dream" speach. > > > > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: ltiu > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Gogala, Mladen > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: RE: Rant
Sounds like a movie I watched this weekend... "Species." It's all science fiction to me. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing. ltiu Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park his/her stupid > cartesian product sql statement!! > > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. > > Dick Goulet > > Reply Separator > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM > > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of > "I have a dream" speach. > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: RE: Rant
what about self destruction?? Sunil > -Original Message- > From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant > > > IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing. > > ltiu > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park > his/her stupid > > cartesian product sql statement!! > > > > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. > > > > Dick Goulet > > > > Reply Separator > > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM > > > > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need > > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. > > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will > > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the > > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread > > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum > > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office > > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of > > "I have a dream" speach. > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: ltiu > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gogala, Mladen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: RE: Rant
Do you believe them? Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone: (203) 459-6855 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant > > > IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing. > > ltiu > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park > his/her stupid > > cartesian product sql statement!! > > > > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. > > > > Dick Goulet > > > > Reply Separator > > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM > > > > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need > > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. > > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will > > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the > > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread > > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum > > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office > > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of > > "I have a dream" speach. > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: ltiu > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gogala, Mladen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]:RE: Rant
>> Since a couple weeks ago, when a "DBA" deleted the filesystem containing >> the system tablespace datafile? Fouled SA reasoning from what I can see. DBA's have enough power that they can wipe out their database (and many others with it) regardless if they have root priv's or not. So he wiped out the FS... next time he might just do an rm -r * on the FS. If he's a member of the DBA group and the FS is setup as Oracle recommends... well he might as well have dropped the file system. It's a cost/benefit ratio thing to me there is more benefit in the DBA having root privs than not as long as they have a **certain amount of admin experience** and there is a clear distinction of what he does, and does not, do. RF Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP Oracle Database Architect CSX Midtier Database Administration Author Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press - Oct 2002) Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press) Mastering Oracle8i (Sybex) Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 5:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L >> Yeah? And there's a good reason we SAs keep root privileges away >> from you DBAs. :-)) > Since when? Since a couple weeks ago, when a "DBA" deleted the filesystem containing the system tablespace datafile? I was just returning some friendly stabs from a DBA to an SA -- but I could provide lots of examples. :) Gary Chambers //- // Lucent Technologies GIO/Unix // 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886 // 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager) // Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft //- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gary Chambers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Freeman, Robert INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
Title: RE: Rant-Rant I once was contracted to fix an Access database that was created by the Sociology department of a major university. The forms and reports all looked very, very nice. Unfortunately the database didn't "work just right"... Jerry Whittle ACIFICS DBA NCI Information Systems Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 618-622-4145 -Original Message- From: Joe LaCascio [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] How about an ENTJ as a DBA and System Admin... I'm loads of fun with a bunch of touchy feely type SP's here at the college I work for ;-) Joe On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Miller, Jay wrote: > FYI: SJs make up about 40% of the population (app. 10% for each > sub-division). > > Jay Miller > infp (yeah, I know, what's an infp doing in a technical job... :) > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > That is why I use the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of the > population fits this profile.
RE: Rant
>> I've learned that my first, panicked reaction is almost invariably, if >> wrong, certainly not the best way to fix something. Taking time to >> NK instead of jumping in and mucking about is usually best. Fight or flight reaction, wonderful physiological human quality. Regardless of the experience, the smartest of DBA's can be turned into human drivel at first in a high stress environment. Interviews can be hell, particularly when you have a wife and kids and no job, worse yet when English is not your first (or second) language of choice. I try to put them at ease, and take our time in interviews. RF Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP Oracle Database Architect CSX Midtier Database Administration Author Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press - Oct 2002) Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press) Mastering Oracle8i (Sybex) Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L OH MY GOD, someone remembers what I said? thank goodness it worked. I've learned that my first, panicked reaction is almost invariably, if not wrong, certainly not the best way to fix something. Taking time to THINK instead of jumping in and mucking about is usually best. you can now see how bad *my* memory is, I can't remember what that magic command was :) Was it the alter datafile out of backup mode one? (see, I NEVER remember the exact SQL statement, I always hit the reference manual for syntax. There is limited storage space in my brain, if I memorize syntax I have to forget something else... like how to think logically) --- "Baker, Barbara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hm. > these are almost verbatim the instructions I got from Rachel > Charmichael > after we lost a disk drive and I'd been trying to recover a database > for > nearly 20 hours. (That was immediately before she steered me towards > the > magic command that recovered the database.) > > --- > > > Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, what do you do. > > Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look in recovery > manual. > > > > We hired the guy, he's still here 2 years later and just recently > got his > > OCP. > > > > Dick Goulet > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Baker, Barbara > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Freeman, Robert INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re:RE: RE: Rant
IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing. ltiu Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park his/her stupid > cartesian product sql statement!! > > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. > > Dick Goulet > > Reply Separator > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM > > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of > "I have a dream" speach. > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]:RE: Rant
At 12:49 PM 7/22/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Gary, > > Since when? > >Dick Goulet > >Reply Separator >Author: Gary Chambers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: 7/22/2002 12:10 PM > > > um, I'd schedule step 6 AFTER the backup finishes... I've seen idiot > > SA's who start the backup then shutdown the machine or kill the > > process before it completes. > >Yeah? And there's a good reason we SAs keep root privileges away from >you DBAs. :-)) i am also a certified SA and i know how oracle works with unix and have yet to meet a SA who does, so why should i trust non-oracle SA's? >Gary Chambers > >//- >// Lucent Technologies GIO/Unix >// 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886 >// 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager) >// Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft >//- > >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Gary Chambers > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Bill Conner INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
How about an ENTJ as a DBA and System Admin... I'm loads of fun with a bunch of touchy feely type SP's here at the college I work for ;-) Joe On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Miller, Jay wrote: > FYI: SJs make up about 40% of the population (app. 10% for each > sub-division). > > Jay Miller > infp (yeah, I know, what's an infp doing in a technical job... :) > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > That is why I use the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of the > population fits this profile. > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Miller, Jay > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Joe LaCascio INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]:RE: Rant
>> Yeah? And there's a good reason we SAs keep root privileges away >> from you DBAs. :-)) > Since when? Since a couple weeks ago, when a "DBA" deleted the filesystem containing the system tablespace datafile? I was just returning some friendly stabs from a DBA to an SA -- but I could provide lots of examples. :) Gary Chambers //- // Lucent Technologies GIO/Unix // 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886 // 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager) // Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft //- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gary Chambers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re:RE: RE: Rant
Right and the database will tell the end user where to park his/her stupid cartesian product sql statement!! Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 7/22/2002 12:14 PM What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of "I have a dream" speach. > -Original Message- > From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:20 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: Re:RE: Rant > > > um no, I mean they are redoing it AGAIN > > I love Oracle, it provides me with an ever and ever steeper learning > curve > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > YUP, Saw the new version at an Oracle event in Boston a couple of > > months ago. > > Seems that nothing is sacred anymore. BTW: Installer changes too, > > now you need > > a full multimedia terminal, 4 channel audio & VR headset > recommended. > > :o) > > > > Dick Goulet > > > > Reply Separator > > Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 7/22/2002 9:53 AM > > > > you can see how often I use the GUI :) > > > > OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a > > fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that > Oracle's changing > > it all again. > > > > T > > --- April Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button geez > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > Good rant. :) > > > > > > I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is "I click on this > > item > > > on the GUI..." (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory > > behind > > > that little radio button) > > > > > > > > > --- mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > > > > > > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > > > > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > > > > about 2-3 years experience. > > > > > > > > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > > > > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > > > > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > > > > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > > > > someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > > > > resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > > > > intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > > > > luck! > > > > > > > > What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > > > > get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > > > > had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > > > > recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > > > > claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > > > > level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > > > > about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > > > > I got were completely off base, baffling and > > > > frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > > > > years experience!!! > > > > > > > > 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > > > > these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > > > > done this???) > > > > > > > > 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > > > > datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not > > > > how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > > > > > > 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > > > > starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > > > > > > > > 'During this time, everything is written to the redo > > > > logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > > > > reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > > > > > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > > > > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > > > > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > > > > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > > > > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > > > > asked every candidate how they would do an online > > > > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > > > > use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > > > > > > I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this > > > > list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > > > > knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > > > > much? > > > > > > > > Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > > > >
RE: RE: Rant
> hey - who is this SA and what is he doing here? this is where us'n > DBA's get to trash everybody else. go away! I come in peace -- honest!!! I'm an aspiring DBA, and I want to do it the right way... How's that? :-)) Gary Chambers //- // Lucent Technologies GIO/Unix // 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886 // 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager) // Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft //- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gary Chambers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
FYI: SJs make up about 40% of the population (app. 10% for each sub-division). Jay Miller infp (yeah, I know, what's an infp doing in a technical job... :) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L That is why I use the machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending 25 years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs type indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of the population fits this profile. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Miller, Jay INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
hey - who is this SA and what is he doing here? this is where us'n DBA's get to trash everybody else. go away! -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > um, I'd schedule step 6 AFTER the backup finishes... I've seen idiot > SA's who start the backup then shutdown the machine or kill the > process before it completes. Yeah? And there's a good reason we SAs keep root privileges away from you DBAs. :-)) Gary Chambers //- // Lucent Technologies GIO/Unix // 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886 // 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager) // Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft //- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gary Chambers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]:RE: Rant
Gary, Since when? Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Gary Chambers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 7/22/2002 12:10 PM > um, I'd schedule step 6 AFTER the backup finishes... I've seen idiot > SA's who start the backup then shutdown the machine or kill the > process before it completes. Yeah? And there's a good reason we SAs keep root privileges away from you DBAs. :-)) Gary Chambers //- // Lucent Technologies GIO/Unix // 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886 // 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager) // Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft //- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gary Chambers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
Two years ago and last year I collate info and put it into Word documents... My original grew and grew, until word froze my workstation. I discovered that MS Word suddenly starts using 100% CPU once a document goes past a certain size. So I split the original document into separate documents... which also grew. I haven't updated them much in the last year, no time anymore. It is almost a full-time job to keep track of everything. I also used to purchase 5+ Oracle books per year, again no time to read them all, and I am now less willing to pour my income into books than I was when I first started as a DBA. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Rant For what it's worth: I have maintained an Oracle/UNIX/Oracle Apps 'how to' two-column word table document for years and years and... If I ever have to go to another job interview, my gut feeling is that I should take this 'book' with me, as I too, need help remembering the syntax (just wait until you are over 50). When called for, I save an object into the table row in question (a description of the issue/subject goes into the 1st column) that may include screenshots along with the full explanation. The book is now many pages long, so it helps to have a fast PC. And here's the best part: some of the better stuff from the 'list' has made its way into the book, with the originator's name. So, if you ever find yourself interviewing someone, who, when asked a question, refers to his laptop, saying, "just a second, I know that one", chances are very good that its me. Have mercy. And now that I think about it, perhaps not such a bad idea to say, "oh yeah, and I got that information from Rachael, or Tom, or Dick, etc., or Jared (better mention him, eh?). Thank you, Paul Sherman DBAElcom, Inc. voice - 781-501-4143 (direct #) fax- 781-278-8341 (secure) email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L OH MY GOD, someone remembers what I said? thank goodness it worked. I've learned that my first, panicked reaction is almost invariably, if not wrong, certainly not the best way to fix something. Taking time to THINK instead of jumping in and mucking about is usually best. you can now see how bad *my* memory is, I can't remember what that magic command was :) Was it the alter datafile out of backup mode one? (see, I NEVER remember the exact SQL statement, I always hit the reference manual for syntax. There is limited storage space in my brain, if I memorize syntax I have to forget something else... like how to think logically) --- "Baker, Barbara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hm. > these are almost verbatim the instructions I got from Rachel > Charmichael > after we lost a disk drive and I'd been trying to recover a database > for > nearly 20 hours. (That was immediately before she steered me towards > the > magic command that recovered the database.) > > --- > > > Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, what do you do. > > Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look in recovery > manual. > > > > We hired the guy, he's still here 2 years later and just recently > got his > > OCP. > > > > Dick Goulet > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Baker, Barbara > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing List
Re:RE: RE: Rant
Patrice, You can still get them, you just have to order them seperatly at a platinum plated cost. Last time I looked is was $1500 per set. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: "Boivin; Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 7/22/2002 11:53 AM I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been costly. It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Would NOT surprise me. Actually the manuals are becoming a rare and endangered item. They've morphed into CD's. Those that remain are platinum plated to command $!%)) US a set!! Dick Goulet -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
Wow! All that information. Why not publish the book? --- "Sherman, Paul R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > For what it's worth: > > I have maintained an Oracle/UNIX/Oracle Apps 'how > to' two-column word table > document for years and years and... If I ever have > to go to another job > interview, my gut feeling is that I should take this > 'book' with me, as I > too, need help remembering the syntax (just wait > until you are over 50). > When called for, I save an object into the table row > in question (a > description of the issue/subject goes into the 1st > column) that may include > screenshots along with the full explanation. The > book is now many pages > long, so it helps to have a fast PC. > > And here's the best part: some of the better stuff > from the 'list' has made > its way into the book, with the originator's name. > So, if you ever find > yourself interviewing someone, who, when asked a > question, refers to his > laptop, saying, "just a second, I know that one", > chances are very good that > its me. Have mercy. And now that I think about it, > perhaps not such a bad > idea to say, "oh yeah, and I got that information > from Rachael, or Tom, or > Dick, etc., or Jared (better mention him, eh?). > > Thank you, > > Paul Sherman > DBAElcom, Inc. > voice - 781-501-4143 (direct #) > fax- 781-278-8341 (secure) > email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:15 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > OH MY GOD, someone remembers what I said? thank > goodness it worked. > > I've learned that my first, panicked reaction is > almost invariably, if > not wrong, certainly not the best way to fix > something. Taking time to > THINK instead of jumping in and mucking about is > usually best. > > you can now see how bad *my* memory is, I can't > remember what that > magic command was :) Was it the alter datafile out > of backup mode one? > > (see, I NEVER remember the exact SQL statement, I > always hit the > reference manual for syntax. There is limited > storage space in my > brain, if I memorize syntax I have to forget > something else... like how > to think logically) > > > > --- "Baker, Barbara" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hm. > > these are almost verbatim the instructions I got > from Rachel > > Charmichael > > after we lost a disk drive and I'd been trying to > recover a database > > for > > nearly 20 hours. (That was immediately before she > steered me towards > > the > > magic command that recovered the database.) > > > > --- > > > > > Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, > what do you do. > > > Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look > in recovery > > manual. > > > > > > We hired the guy, he's still here 2 years later > and just recently > > got his > > > OCP. > > > > > > Dick Goulet > > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Baker, Barbara > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 > FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet > access / Mailing > > Lists > > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be > removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Rachel Carmichael > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: > (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet > access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Sherman, Paul R. > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: > (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet > access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a l
Re[2]:RE: Rant
Rachel, You can say that if you want, I trust my SA's. And that they've earned the HARD way. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 7/22/2002 11:15 AM um, I'd schedule step 6 AFTER the backup finishes... I've seen idiot SA's who start the backup then shutdown the machine or kill the process before it completes. :) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I have, no fun. But at least your only fooling around with one > tablespace > and/or file vs. the entire database. The method is rather simple: > > 1) The tablespace/datafile are already offline, SMON does this > for you > unless it's SYSTEM in which case your not doing this in the first > place. > > 2) Get your SA to restore the datafiles(s) from tape back to > where they > belong. > > 3) startup SQL*Plus as internal. > > 4) Alter database recover tablespace/datafile as you normally > would. > > 5) Alter tablespace/datafile online. > > 6) Miller time. (After the SA schedules/starts a hot backup of > the entire > DB). > > Want to try one? Take a DB that's in archive log mode & either in > development > or test. Use production ONLY if your suicidal. Take the datafile or > tablespace > offline for a little while. Now try to bring it back online. Then > go to step 4 > above. > > Dick Goulet > > Reply Separator > Author: "Vergara; Michael (TEM)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 7/22/2002 8:13 AM > > I read your rant, and I agree with you. But I do have > one little itsy bitsy question... > > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > > asked every candidate how they would do an online > > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > > use. No ideas. Not even close. > > How DO you do an online recovery of a datafile while the > database is still in use? I've had to do recoveries before, > but never this scenario. > > Thanks, > Mike > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for othe
RE: Rant
For me, two things are embedded in permanent memory Anniversary Wife's birthday All that is good flows from these >(see, I NEVER remember the exact SQL statement, I always hit the >reference manual for syntax. There is limited storage space in my >brain, if I memorize syntax I have to forget something else... like how >to think logically) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robert Monical INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
Title: RE: RE: Rant Not me. I LOVE the cds. I copy them onto my hard drive and use the pdf versions. they are SEARCHABLE. I can find things much more quickly in the pdf's than paper. Oracle is the only product that I feel this way about .. probably because they have more documentation than the library of congress! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@SUNGARD On Behalf Of "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE: Rant I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been costly. It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services | Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
Rachel, you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have the luxury (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person and work-em till they drop is the current motto. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical >organization >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely have excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a luxury beyond belief. As I type this I am the DBA for: a new data mart/data warehouse project a new content management system project a new ecommerce project the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project the existing asset management application the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other DBAs around .. oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling experience, other than "common sense" --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OMG! A Socialist in the group! > > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free > up my > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire > society > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch > of > great people in the process." > > The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > organization > will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > have the > cash for multiple people. So a DBA ends up getting called upon do > cross the > boundary between very technical stuff as part of the SA group and > data > access/design with the applications group. Lots of room in between > here for > talented people. > > Tom Mercadante > Oracle Certified Professional > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > I have been reading this list for the past several months as I > prepare to > move my universe of databases from 7.3 to 9 (probably 9) and I have a > rant > of my own. > > It seems that the implicit expectation is that every DBA should be or > > should aspire to be a Master Technical DBA. > I have a slightly different take on the situation. It is a little > convoluted but I believe that the DBA world needs some additional job > > classifications. In a decent sized organization, the day to day > management > functions should be accomplished by an Admin DBA who might be someone > who > was perfectly happy spending his/her working career operating a > precision > milling machine at Boeing. Since the machinist jobs are going away, I > see > no reason why a competent machinist could not become a competent > admin DBA. > Such a person is not suited by aptitude or disposition to become a > Master > Technical DBA, but would do a great job at the admin level. > > I'll extend the analogy a little more: the manufacturing organization > does > not expect the machinist to program the machine. They either have on > staff > or bring in a numerical control programming specialist. Similarly, > the > Admin DBA should know which tasks he/she can perform and which tasks > should > be kicked up or out to the next level. > > So maybe some of the energy spent on this list about relevance of the > OCP > and discussing qualifications of DBAs (against an unspecified > standard) > could be spent defining organizational strategies for getting the > best use > out of human capital represented by "Admin DBAs" and pricing the > skill set > appropriately. The worst possible thing is to get an Admin DBA into a > > Technical DBA position. > > I think the key breakthrough is the notion that there is a DBA track > that > does not inevitably lead to Master Technical DBA. That is why I use > the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending > 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs > type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of > the > population fits this profile. > > I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free > up my > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire > society > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch > of > great people in the process. (Sez the man operating a three person > software co
RE: Rant
Rachel, now THAT must have been funny as all hell! Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "and if Rachel were to become a Nun" My mother would start sitting shiva, because as far as she would be concerned, I'd have died :) I did love the interview I gave once: Me: Okay, so last few questions. How do you learn about Oracle? Interviewee: Oh, I read the manuals, read the Oracle-l (I can see the light dawning) you're .. Rachel Carmichael --- "Freeman, Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The interview (exerpts from some of my actual ones, and then some > made up) > > We are in my cube. I've studied the resume for Mr. Morias, who is a > Portuguese national who's degree is from University who's name I > can't > pronounce and who's credentials I can't verify. He is a brand new > OCP. > > Me: Good day Mr. (looks again at resume, I have a short term memory) > Morias. > > Interviewee: Oi ai senhor, esta bom encontraa-lo. > > Me: Sir, I didn't understand you, please try again.. > > Interviewee: Sorry sir, I forget I need speak English. Good day sir. > > Me: So, let's start our interview, shall we. Tell me what a rollback > segment > is please. > > Interviewee: It is the method by which Oracle database store all > database > changes. It is used during recovery. > > Me: (Figuring we have made a Jr. DBA type mistake here) Ok... and > tell me > about a redo log. > > Interviewee: It used to provide consistent image to database users. > Oracle > has automated redo in Oracle9i. > > Me: Are you sure that you don't have these kind of turned around? > Redo logs > are used for recovery, rollback segments are used for read > consistency. > > Interviewee: No, you are mistaken, I know it is as I described. I've > been a > DBA for 10 years, I know what I am doing. > > Me: Ok... so, when you have a problem with a database, what do you do > to > solve the problem? > > Interviewee: I go to ORACLE-L and ask Rachel, she know everything. > > Me: And if she is on vacation or not responding to questions? > > Interviewee: I wait for Rachel to return. > > Me: And if Rachel were to become a Nun and never grace ORACLE-L > again? > > Interviewee: I check out Lazy DBA, Mike Ault is there. > > Me: AND if the Internet were unavailable? > > Interviewee: (thinks for a second) I call Oracle? > > Me: What about the manuals? > > Interviewee: Oracle has Manuals? I've never seen them. > > > > > Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP > Oracle Database Architect > CSX Midtier Database Administration > Author > Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press - Oct 2002) > Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press) > Mastering Oracle8i (Sybex) > > Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? > Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I > guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and > your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' > crazy. > > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:54 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > you can see how often I use the GUI :) > > OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a > fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that Oracle's changing > it all again. > > T > --- April Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button geez > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Good rant. :) > > > > I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is "I click on this > item > > on the GUI..." (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory > behind > > that little radio button) > > > > > > --- mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > > > > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > > > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > > > about 2-3 years experience. > > > > > > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > > > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > > > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > > > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > > > someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > > > resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > > > intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > > > luck! > > > > > > What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > > > get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > > > had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > > > recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > > > claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > > > level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > > > about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > > > I got were completely off base, baffling and > > > frustrating.
RE: Rant
I don't suppose that "we've been told some things about oracle during my MSCE seminars" would land me a DBA job? > -Original Message- > From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:29 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: Rant > > > "and if Rachel were to become a Nun" My mother would start sitting > shiva, because as far as she would be concerned, I'd have died :) > > I did love the interview I gave once: > > Me: Okay, so last few questions. How do you learn about Oracle? > Interviewee: Oh, I read the manuals, read the Oracle-l (I can see the > light dawning) you're .. Rachel Carmichael > > > > > --- "Freeman, Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The interview (exerpts from some of my actual ones, and then some > > made up) > > > > We are in my cube. I've studied the resume for Mr. Morias, who is a > > Portuguese national who's degree is from University who's name I > > can't > > pronounce and who's credentials I can't verify. He is a brand new > > OCP. > > > > Me: Good day Mr. (looks again at resume, I have a short term memory) > > Morias. > > > > Interviewee: Oi ai senhor, esta bom encontraa-lo. > > > > Me: Sir, I didn't understand you, please try again.. > > > > Interviewee: Sorry sir, I forget I need speak English. Good day sir. > > > > Me: So, let's start our interview, shall we. Tell me what a rollback > > segment > > is please. > > > > Interviewee: It is the method by which Oracle database store all > > database > > changes. It is used during recovery. > > > > Me: (Figuring we have made a Jr. DBA type mistake here) Ok... and > > tell me > > about a redo log. > > > > Interviewee: It used to provide consistent image to database users. > > Oracle > > has automated redo in Oracle9i. > > > > Me: Are you sure that you don't have these kind of turned around? > > Redo logs > > are used for recovery, rollback segments are used for read > > consistency. > > > > Interviewee: No, you are mistaken, I know it is as I described. I've > > been a > > DBA for 10 years, I know what I am doing. > > > > Me: Ok... so, when you have a problem with a database, what > do you do > > to > > solve the problem? > > > > Interviewee: I go to ORACLE-L and ask Rachel, she know everything. > > > > Me: And if she is on vacation or not responding to questions? > > > > Interviewee: I wait for Rachel to return. > > > > Me: And if Rachel were to become a Nun and never grace ORACLE-L > > again? > > > > Interviewee: I check out Lazy DBA, Mike Ault is there. > > > > Me: AND if the Internet were unavailable? > > > > Interviewee: (thinks for a second) I call Oracle? > > > > Me: What about the manuals? > > > > Interviewee: Oracle has Manuals? I've never seen them. > > > > > > > > > > Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP > > Oracle Database Architect > > CSX Midtier Database Administration > > Author > > Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press - Oct 2002) > > Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press) > > Mastering Oracle8i (Sybex) > > > > Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're > bad luck? > > Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I > > guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and > > your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' > > crazy. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:54 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > you can see how often I use the GUI :) > > > > OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a > > fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that > Oracle's changing > > it all again. > > > > T > > --- April Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button geez > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > Good rant. :) > > > > > > I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is "I click on this > > item > >
RE: RE: Rant
What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i. You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of "I have a dream" speach. > -Original Message- > From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:20 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: Re:RE: Rant > > > um no, I mean they are redoing it AGAIN > > I love Oracle, it provides me with an ever and ever steeper learning > curve > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > YUP, Saw the new version at an Oracle event in Boston a couple of > > months ago. > > Seems that nothing is sacred anymore. BTW: Installer changes too, > > now you need > > a full multimedia terminal, 4 channel audio & VR headset > recommended. > > :o) > > > > Dick Goulet > > > > Reply Separator > > Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 7/22/2002 9:53 AM > > > > you can see how often I use the GUI :) > > > > OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a > > fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that > Oracle's changing > > it all again. > > > > T > > --- April Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button geez > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > Good rant. :) > > > > > > I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is "I click on this > > item > > > on the GUI..." (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory > > behind > > > that little radio button) > > > > > > > > > --- mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > > > > > > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > > > > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > > > > about 2-3 years experience. > > > > > > > > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > > > > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > > > > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > > > > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > > > > someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > > > > resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > > > > intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > > > > luck! > > > > > > > > What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > > > > get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > > > > had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > > > > recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > > > > claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > > > > level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > > > > about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > > > > I got were completely off base, baffling and > > > > frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > > > > years experience!!! > > > > > > > > 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > > > > these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > > > > done this???) > > > > > > > > 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > > > > datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not > > > > how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > > > > > > 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > > > > starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > > > > > > > > 'During this time, everything is written to the redo > > > > logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > > > > reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > > > > > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > > > > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > > > > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > > > > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > > > > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > > > > asked every candidate how they would do an online > > > > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > > > > use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > > > > > > I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this > > > > list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > > > > knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > > > > much? > > > > > > > > Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > > > > > > > mkb > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > > > > http://health.yahoo.com > > > > -- > > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > > > -- > > > > Author: mk
RE: Rant-Rant
Here's the way I see it would develop: Day one - lets' hire 2 Admin Dba's & 1 Tech Dba - cost = $20+$20+$40 = $80/hour One year later - stock price drops - sales are slow - damager says "save money" - fire one Admin Dba, 2nd admin dba gets all the duties or is let go. new cost = $20+$40=$60 Damager also decides that the Tech Dba should be responsible for more SA activities - fires the lone SA person. saves another salary. Another year later - again - stock price drops - sales are slow - damager fires remaining Admin Dba. Tech DBA reads the writing on the wall - either he/she will be working 80 hour weeks, or leaves the company - decides to quit. where is the company now? I can easily see the above happening. There are *many* people on this list that this has happened to. Except, they stayed at their company because there are not many positions available and they are stguck working with cell phones/pagers/beepers etc 24 hours a day. todays market is driven by the stock price - not by the utopia you described. have fun! :) Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L At 10:38 AM 7/22/2002 -0800, Mercadante, Thomas F wrote: >OMG! A Socialist in the group! The irony is it sounds idealistic but it is hard nosed capitalism. From each according to his/her ability To each according to his/her value. The most successful organization will develop paradigms to effectively employ displaced mill workers etc. in IT. You fill in the numbers for your organization: Admin DBA Pay Range $15/hr-$28/hr Technical DBA pay range $20/hr-$60/hr Now how many can you afford and what is the right mix? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robert Monical INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Rant
Yep... I figgur' we are hitting about 8 G's about now... Just wait for 10i and watch us top 10 G's!!! RF Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP Oracle Database Architect CSX Midtier Database Administration Author Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press - Oct 2002) Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press) Mastering Oracle8i (Sybex) Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L um no, I mean they are redoing it AGAIN I love Oracle, it provides me with an ever and ever steeper learning curve --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > YUP, Saw the new version at an Oracle event in Boston a couple of > months ago. > Seems that nothing is sacred anymore. BTW: Installer changes too, > now you need > a full multimedia terminal, 4 channel audio & VR headset recommended. > :o) > > Dick Goulet > > Reply Separator > Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 7/22/2002 9:53 AM > > you can see how often I use the GUI :) > > OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a > fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that Oracle's changing > it all again. > > T > --- April Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button geez > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Good rant. :) > > > > I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is "I click on this > item > > on the GUI..." (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory > behind > > that little radio button) > > > > > > --- mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > > > > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > > > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > > > about 2-3 years experience. > > > > > > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > > > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > > > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > > > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > > > someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > > > resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > > > intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > > > luck! > > > > > > What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > > > get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > > > had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > > > recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > > > claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > > > level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > > > about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > > > I got were completely off base, baffling and > > > frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > > > years experience!!! > > > > > > 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > > > these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > > > done this???) > > > > > > 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > > > datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not > > > how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > > > > 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > > > starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > > > > > > 'During this time, everything is written to the redo > > > logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > > > reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > > > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > > > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > > > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > > > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > > > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > > > asked every candidate how they would do an online > > > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > > > use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > > > > I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this > > > list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > > > knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > > > much? > > > > > > Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > > > > > mkb > > > > > > > > > __ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > > > http://health.yahoo.com > > > -- > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > > -- > > > Author: mkb > > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) > 538-5051 > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > > > Lists > > > > > >
RE: Rant
"and if Rachel were to become a Nun" My mother would start sitting shiva, because as far as she would be concerned, I'd have died :) I did love the interview I gave once: Me: Okay, so last few questions. How do you learn about Oracle? Interviewee: Oh, I read the manuals, read the Oracle-l (I can see the light dawning) you're .. Rachel Carmichael --- "Freeman, Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The interview (exerpts from some of my actual ones, and then some > made up) > > We are in my cube. I've studied the resume for Mr. Morias, who is a > Portuguese national who's degree is from University who's name I > can't > pronounce and who's credentials I can't verify. He is a brand new > OCP. > > Me: Good day Mr. (looks again at resume, I have a short term memory) > Morias. > > Interviewee: Oi aí senhor, está bom encontraá-lo. > > Me: Sir, I didn't understand you, please try again.. > > Interviewee: Sorry sir, I forget I need speak English. Good day sir. > > Me: So, let's start our interview, shall we. Tell me what a rollback > segment > is please. > > Interviewee: It is the method by which Oracle database store all > database > changes. It is used during recovery. > > Me: (Figuring we have made a Jr. DBA type mistake here) Ok... and > tell me > about a redo log. > > Interviewee: It used to provide consistent image to database users. > Oracle > has automated redo in Oracle9i. > > Me: Are you sure that you don't have these kind of turned around? > Redo logs > are used for recovery, rollback segments are used for read > consistency. > > Interviewee: No, you are mistaken, I know it is as I described. I've > been a > DBA for 10 years, I know what I am doing. > > Me: Ok... so, when you have a problem with a database, what do you do > to > solve the problem? > > Interviewee: I go to ORACLE-L and ask Rachel, she know everything. > > Me: And if she is on vacation or not responding to questions? > > Interviewee: I wait for Rachel to return. > > Me: And if Rachel were to become a Nun and never grace ORACLE-L > again? > > Interviewee: I check out Lazy DBA, Mike Ault is there. > > Me: AND if the Internet were unavailable? > > Interviewee: (thinks for a second) I call Oracle? > > Me: What about the manuals? > > Interviewee: Oracle has Manuals? I've never seen them. > > > > > Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP > Oracle Database Architect > CSX Midtier Database Administration > Author > Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press - Oct 2002) > Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press) > Mastering Oracle8i (Sybex) > > Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? > Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I > guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and > your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' > crazy. > > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:54 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > you can see how often I use the GUI :) > > OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a > fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that Oracle's changing > it all again. > > T > --- April Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button geez > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Good rant. :) > > > > I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is "I click on this > item > > on the GUI..." (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory > behind > > that little radio button) > > > > > > --- mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > > > > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > > > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > > > about 2-3 years experience. > > > > > > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > > > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > > > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > > > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > > > someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > > > resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > > > intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > > > luck! > > > > > > What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > > > get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > > > had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > > > recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > > > claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > > > level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > > > about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > > > I got were completely off base, baffling and > > > frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > > > years experience!!! > > > > > > 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > > > these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > > > done th
RE: RE: Rant
I can see why they stopped distributing them though, it must have been costly. It doesn't remove the fact that it would be handy to have paper copies of the manuals. It's hard to put yellow sticknote tabs on a CD. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re:RE: Rant Would NOT surprise me. Actually the manuals are becoming a rare and endangered item. They've morphed into CD's. Those that remain are platinum plated to command $!%)) US a set!! Dick Goulet -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
For what it's worth: I have maintained an Oracle/UNIX/Oracle Apps 'how to' two-column word table document for years and years and... If I ever have to go to another job interview, my gut feeling is that I should take this 'book' with me, as I too, need help remembering the syntax (just wait until you are over 50). When called for, I save an object into the table row in question (a description of the issue/subject goes into the 1st column) that may include screenshots along with the full explanation. The book is now many pages long, so it helps to have a fast PC. And here's the best part: some of the better stuff from the 'list' has made its way into the book, with the originator's name. So, if you ever find yourself interviewing someone, who, when asked a question, refers to his laptop, saying, "just a second, I know that one", chances are very good that its me. Have mercy. And now that I think about it, perhaps not such a bad idea to say, "oh yeah, and I got that information from Rachael, or Tom, or Dick, etc., or Jared (better mention him, eh?). Thank you, Paul Sherman DBAElcom, Inc. voice - 781-501-4143 (direct #) fax- 781-278-8341 (secure) email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L OH MY GOD, someone remembers what I said? thank goodness it worked. I've learned that my first, panicked reaction is almost invariably, if not wrong, certainly not the best way to fix something. Taking time to THINK instead of jumping in and mucking about is usually best. you can now see how bad *my* memory is, I can't remember what that magic command was :) Was it the alter datafile out of backup mode one? (see, I NEVER remember the exact SQL statement, I always hit the reference manual for syntax. There is limited storage space in my brain, if I memorize syntax I have to forget something else... like how to think logically) --- "Baker, Barbara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hm. > these are almost verbatim the instructions I got from Rachel > Charmichael > after we lost a disk drive and I'd been trying to recover a database > for > nearly 20 hours. (That was immediately before she steered me towards > the > magic command that recovered the database.) > > --- > > > Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, what do you do. > > Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look in recovery > manual. > > > > We hired the guy, he's still here 2 years later and just recently > got his > > OCP. > > > > Dick Goulet > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Baker, Barbara > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sherman, Paul R. INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
>The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical >organization >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely have excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a luxury beyond belief. As I type this I am the DBA for: a new data mart/data warehouse project a new content management system project a new ecommerce project the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project the existing asset management application the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other DBAs around .. oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling experience, other than "common sense" --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OMG! A Socialist in the group! > > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free > up my > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire > society > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch > of > great people in the process." > > The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > organization > will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > have the > cash for multiple people. So a DBA ends up getting called upon do > cross the > boundary between very technical stuff as part of the SA group and > data > access/design with the applications group. Lots of room in between > here for > talented people. > > Tom Mercadante > Oracle Certified Professional > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > I have been reading this list for the past several months as I > prepare to > move my universe of databases from 7.3 to 9 (probably 9) and I have a > rant > of my own. > > It seems that the implicit expectation is that every DBA should be or > > should aspire to be a Master Technical DBA. > I have a slightly different take on the situation. It is a little > convoluted but I believe that the DBA world needs some additional job > > classifications. In a decent sized organization, the day to day > management > functions should be accomplished by an Admin DBA who might be someone > who > was perfectly happy spending his/her working career operating a > precision > milling machine at Boeing. Since the machinist jobs are going away, I > see > no reason why a competent machinist could not become a competent > admin DBA. > Such a person is not suited by aptitude or disposition to become a > Master > Technical DBA, but would do a great job at the admin level. > > I'll extend the analogy a little more: the manufacturing organization > does > not expect the machinist to program the machine. They either have on > staff > or bring in a numerical control programming specialist. Similarly, > the > Admin DBA should know which tasks he/she can perform and which tasks > should > be kicked up or out to the next level. > > So maybe some of the energy spent on this list about relevance of the > OCP > and discussing qualifications of DBAs (against an unspecified > standard) > could be spent defining organizational strategies for getting the > best use > out of human capital represented by "Admin DBAs" and pricing the > skill set > appropriately. The worst possible thing is to get an Admin DBA into a > > Technical DBA position. > > I think the key breakthrough is the notion that there is a DBA track > that > does not inevitably lead to Master Technical DBA. That is why I use > the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending > 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs > type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of > the > population fits this profile. > > I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free > up my > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire > society > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch > of > great people in the process. (Sez the man operating a three person > software company). > > Re: Hotbackups. > In the last three months I have adapted the scripts from the Kevin > Loney > book for 4 separate databases. > I have inspected them very carefully to make sure all of the files > are the > there. > I think that I understand the what, how and why of hot backups. > And I still had to go look to see that it was an alter tablespace > rather > than an alter database command to b
RE: Rant-Rant
At 10:38 AM 7/22/2002 -0800, Mercadante, Thomas F wrote: >OMG! A Socialist in the group! The irony is it sounds idealistic but it is hard nosed capitalism. From each according to his/her ability To each according to his/her value. The most successful organization will develop paradigms to effectively employ displaced mill workers etc. in IT. You fill in the numbers for your organization: Admin DBA Pay Range $15/hr-$28/hr Technical DBA pay range $20/hr-$60/hr Now how many can you afford and what is the right mix? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robert Monical INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
You better believe it!!! next time I've been up a gazillion hours and I'm begging for help, I want the goddess to think kindly of me. > -- > From: Mercadante, Thomas F[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 12:08 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: Rant > > that Rachel - what a gal! > > PS - -- - That Barbara, what a suck-up! :) > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:04 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Hm. > these are almost verbatim the instructions I got from Rachel Charmichael > after we lost a disk drive and I'd been trying to recover a database for > nearly 20 hours. (That was immediately before she steered me towards the > magic command that recovered the database.) > > --- > > > Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, what do you do. > > Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look in recovery manual. > > > > We hired the guy, he's still here 2 years later and just recently got > his > > OCP. > > > > Dick Goulet > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Baker, Barbara > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Mercadante, Thomas F > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Baker, Barbara INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
OMG! A Socialist in the group! "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free up my time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire society better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch of great people in the process." The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical organization will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely have the cash for multiple people. So a DBA ends up getting called upon do cross the boundary between very technical stuff as part of the SA group and data access/design with the applications group. Lots of room in between here for talented people. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I have been reading this list for the past several months as I prepare to move my universe of databases from 7.3 to 9 (probably 9) and I have a rant of my own. It seems that the implicit expectation is that every DBA should be or should aspire to be a Master Technical DBA. I have a slightly different take on the situation. It is a little convoluted but I believe that the DBA world needs some additional job classifications. In a decent sized organization, the day to day management functions should be accomplished by an Admin DBA who might be someone who was perfectly happy spending his/her working career operating a precision milling machine at Boeing. Since the machinist jobs are going away, I see no reason why a competent machinist could not become a competent admin DBA. Such a person is not suited by aptitude or disposition to become a Master Technical DBA, but would do a great job at the admin level. I'll extend the analogy a little more: the manufacturing organization does not expect the machinist to program the machine. They either have on staff or bring in a numerical control programming specialist. Similarly, the Admin DBA should know which tasks he/she can perform and which tasks should be kicked up or out to the next level. So maybe some of the energy spent on this list about relevance of the OCP and discussing qualifications of DBAs (against an unspecified standard) could be spent defining organizational strategies for getting the best use out of human capital represented by "Admin DBAs" and pricing the skill set appropriately. The worst possible thing is to get an Admin DBA into a Technical DBA position. I think the key breakthrough is the notion that there is a DBA track that does not inevitably lead to Master Technical DBA. That is why I use the machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending 25 years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs type indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of the population fits this profile. I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free up my time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire society better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch of great people in the process. (Sez the man operating a three person software company). Re: Hotbackups. In the last three months I have adapted the scripts from the Kevin Loney book for 4 separate databases. I have inspected them very carefully to make sure all of the files are the there. I think that I understand the what, how and why of hot backups. And I still had to go look to see that it was an alter tablespace rather than an alter database command to backup the tablespace. re Politics: Given the rather idealistic tone of this missive, I guess I should add that I am down the middle Libertarian who tends to vote Republican because I'm most concerned about taxes. At 06:58 AM 7/22/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Ok, I need to vent a little. > >Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over >the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with >about 2-3 years experience. > >I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I >think that I ask particularly tough questions. The >questions that I ask potential candidates are soley >based on what is on the resume. So I figure if >someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their >resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly >intelligent conversation about these topics. No such >luck! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robert Monical INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMO
RE: Rant
OH MY GOD, someone remembers what I said? thank goodness it worked. I've learned that my first, panicked reaction is almost invariably, if not wrong, certainly not the best way to fix something. Taking time to THINK instead of jumping in and mucking about is usually best. you can now see how bad *my* memory is, I can't remember what that magic command was :) Was it the alter datafile out of backup mode one? (see, I NEVER remember the exact SQL statement, I always hit the reference manual for syntax. There is limited storage space in my brain, if I memorize syntax I have to forget something else... like how to think logically) --- "Baker, Barbara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hm. > these are almost verbatim the instructions I got from Rachel > Charmichael > after we lost a disk drive and I'd been trying to recover a database > for > nearly 20 hours. (That was immediately before she steered me towards > the > magic command that recovered the database.) > > --- > > > Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, what do you do. > > Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look in recovery > manual. > > > > We hired the guy, he's still here 2 years later and just recently > got his > > OCP. > > > > Dick Goulet > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Baker, Barbara > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
The interview (exerpts from some of my actual ones, and then some made up) We are in my cube. I've studied the resume for Mr. Morias, who is a Portuguese national who's degree is from University who's name I can't pronounce and who's credentials I can't verify. He is a brand new OCP. Me: Good day Mr. (looks again at resume, I have a short term memory) Morias. Interviewee: Oi aí senhor, está bom encontraá-lo. Me: Sir, I didn't understand you, please try again.. Interviewee: Sorry sir, I forget I need speak English. Good day sir. Me: So, let's start our interview, shall we. Tell me what a rollback segment is please. Interviewee: It is the method by which Oracle database store all database changes. It is used during recovery. Me: (Figuring we have made a Jr. DBA type mistake here) Ok... and tell me about a redo log. Interviewee: It used to provide consistent image to database users. Oracle has automated redo in Oracle9i. Me: Are you sure that you don't have these kind of turned around? Redo logs are used for recovery, rollback segments are used for read consistency. Interviewee: No, you are mistaken, I know it is as I described. I've been a DBA for 10 years, I know what I am doing. Me: Ok... so, when you have a problem with a database, what do you do to solve the problem? Interviewee: I go to ORACLE-L and ask Rachel, she know everything. Me: And if she is on vacation or not responding to questions? Interviewee: I wait for Rachel to return. Me: And if Rachel were to become a Nun and never grace ORACLE-L again? Interviewee: I check out Lazy DBA, Mike Ault is there. Me: AND if the Internet were unavailable? Interviewee: (thinks for a second) I call Oracle? Me: What about the manuals? Interviewee: Oracle has Manuals? I've never seen them. Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP Oracle Database Architect CSX Midtier Database Administration Author Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press - Oct 2002) Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press) Mastering Oracle8i (Sybex) Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L you can see how often I use the GUI :) OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that Oracle's changing it all again. T --- April Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button geez > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Good rant. :) > > I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is "I click on this item > on the GUI..." (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory behind > that little radio button) > > > --- mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > > about 2-3 years experience. > > > > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > > someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > > resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > > intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > > luck! > > > > What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > > get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > > had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > > recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > > claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > > level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > > about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > > I got were completely off base, baffling and > > frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > > years experience!!! > > > > 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > > these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > > done this???) > > > > 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > > datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not > > how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > > 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > > starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > > > > 'During this time, everything is written to the redo > > logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > > reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > > know. Well how about a si
RE: Rant
For the GUI-challenged... Hopefully Oracle will offer a class on OEM new features with a certification test on OEM... Probably only a $2000 package and Oracle will market this so headhunters will require OEM button clicking certification before granting an interview. Feeling better now. Sardonically yours, Steve Orr Please click the X button to delete this message. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 11:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High you can see how often I use the GUI :) OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that Oracle's changing it all again. T -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
that Rachel - what a gal! PS - -- - That Barbara, what a suck-up! :) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hm. these are almost verbatim the instructions I got from Rachel Charmichael after we lost a disk drive and I'd been trying to recover a database for nearly 20 hours. (That was immediately before she steered me towards the magic command that recovered the database.) --- > Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, what do you do. > Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look in recovery manual. > > We hired the guy, he's still here 2 years later and just recently got his > OCP. > > Dick Goulet > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Baker, Barbara INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Rant
You have to restore the tablespace with the datafile you want to restore to a clone database and export the datafile's contents from the clone and import it into the database with the bad datafile. HTH, R - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 12:13 PM I read your rant, and I agree with you. But I do have one little itsy bitsy question... > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > asked every candidate how they would do an online > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > use. No ideas. Not even close. How DO you do an online recovery of a datafile while the database is still in use? I've had to do recoveries before, but never this scenario. Thanks, Mike -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
Checking the FM (Oracle 9i Backup and Recovery Concepts). Page 4-16 gives a high level overview of the principles and Oracle 9i User Managed Backup and Recovery, chapter 4 gives a detailed description. Scenario - Loss of one or more datafiles (NOT SYSTEM) In archivelog mode Database status open Recovery - Datafiles are taken offline (automaitcally by Oracle if it can't read/write to them). Take affected tablespace(s) offline normal. Restore datafile(s) from most recent backups along with necessary archivelogs. Recover using recover tablespace , ... Bring affected tablespace(s) online alter tablespace online etc. hth Correct me if I'm wrong. mkb --- "Vergara, Michael (TEM)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I read your rant, and I agree with you. But I do > have > one little itsy bitsy question... > > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of > them > > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue > as to > > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. > I > > asked every candidate how they would do an online > > recover of a datafile while the database was still > in > > use. No ideas. Not even close. > > How DO you do an online recovery of a datafile while > the > database is still in use? I've had to do recoveries > before, > but never this scenario. > > Thanks, > Mike > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: > (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet > access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
I was told that same thing in an interview. He said "I don't know is not a good answer. I don't know, but I know where to find out." is much better. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 9:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L even so, I'd rather have someone tell me "my mind has gone blank, but I know I can look it up in this manual" --- KENNETH JANUSZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One thing to keep in mind is that it is easy to get "rattled" during > a job > interview and have your mind go blank on you. This is especially > true with > computer technical types who are basically introverts. Some years > back when > I was a corporate controller I interviewed a young lady for a admin > type > position. Her interview was a total disaster. She took the typing > test and > completely messed it up. But there was something about her skills > that came > through and I hired her. I was never sorry that I did. She could > type up > complicated tax forms that were always 100% correct. She was a model > employee. > > Sometimes you have to go by your gut feel. Answers to technical > questions > are not the complete picture. > > My $0.02 worth, > > Ken Janusz, CPIM > > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 9:58 AM > > > > Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > > about 2-3 years experience. > > > > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > > someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > > resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > > intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > > luck! > > > > What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > > get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > > had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > > recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > > claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > > level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > > about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > > I got were completely off base, baffling and > > frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > > years experience!!! > > > > 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > > these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > > done this???) > > > > 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > > datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not > > how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > > 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > > starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > > > > 'During this time, everything is written to the redo > > logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > > reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > > asked every candidate how they would do an online > > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > > use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > > I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this > > list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > > knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > > much? > > > > Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > > > mkb -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
you can see how often I use the GUI :)
OBTW.. for those of you who are OEM fans... I heard a rumor (from a
fairly well-informed, usually accurate source) that Oracle's changing
it all again.
T
--- April Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button geez
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Good rant. :)
>
> I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is "I click on this item
> on the GUI..." (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory behind
> that little radio button)
>
>
> --- mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Ok, I need to vent a little.
> >
> > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over
> > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with
> > about 2-3 years experience.
> >
> > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I
> > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The
> > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley
> > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if
> > someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their
> > resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly
> > intelligent conversation about these topics. No such
> > luck!
> >
> > What really frustrated me, and what I really want to
> > get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to,
> > had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about
> > recovery. I asked each and every candidate who
> > claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high
> > level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care
> > about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers
> > I got were completely off base, baffling and
> > frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5
> > years experience!!!
> >
> > 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how
> > these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've
> > done this???)
> >
> > 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the
> > datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not
> > how a hot backup is done, right?)
> >
> > 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup
> > starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?)
> >
> > 'During this time, everything is written to the redo
> > logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been
> > reading one of those books, haven't you?)
> >
> > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in
> > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them
> > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to
> > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't
> > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I
> > asked every candidate how they would do an online
> > recover of a datafile while the database was still in
> > use. No ideas. Not even close.
> >
> > I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this
> > list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as
> > knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too
> > much?
> >
> > Rant over. Thanks for listening.
> >
> > mkb
> >
> >
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
> > http://health.yahoo.com
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: mkb
> > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> > Lists
> >
>
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like
> subscribing).
>
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
> http://health.yahoo.com
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Rachel Carmichael
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
>
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
> begin 666 InterScan_Disclaimer.txt
> M5&AE(&EN9F]R;6%T:6]N(&-O;G1A:6YE9"!I;B!T:&ES(&4M;6%I;"!I M=')I8W1L>2!C;VYF:61E;G1I86P@86YD(&9O M(&]F('1H92!A9&1R97-S964@;VYL>3L@:70@;6%Y(&%L M>2!P M:7,@:&5R96)Y(&=I=F5N('1H870@86YY(&1I M;W!Y:6YG(&]F('1H92!I;F9O2!A;GEO;F4@;W
RE: Rant
Hm. these are almost verbatim the instructions I got from Rachel Charmichael after we lost a disk drive and I'd been trying to recover a database for nearly 20 hours. (That was immediately before she steered me towards the magic command that recovered the database.) --- > Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, what do you do. > Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look in recovery manual. > > We hired the guy, he's still here 2 years later and just recently got his > OCP. > > Dick Goulet > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Baker, Barbara INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
My favorite is when they claim to run an n Terabyte database, and I ask them how they back it up... "uh we don't back it up yet..." Bzzzt!! Thank you for playing, bye bye! P.s. I liked your rant... -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 12:19 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L you have a script that GETS rid of BUGS!?! COOL!!! -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L uh...raid. Oh yes, I have a script for that. --- Alan Davey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So no one responded with, "We use raid xx. We don't > have to worry about backup/recovery." ;^) > > -- > > Alan Davey > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 212-604-0200 x106 > > > On 7/22/02, mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > >Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews > over > >the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone > with > >about 2-3 years experience. > > > >I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > >think that I ask particularly tough questions. The questions that I > >ask potential candidates are soley based on what is on the resume. > >So I figure if someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on > their > >resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a > fairly > >intelligent conversation about these topics. No > such > >luck! > > > >What really frustrated me, and what I really want > to > >get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked > to, > >had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget > about > >recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > >claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a > high > >level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't > care > >about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The > answers > >I got were completely off base, baffling and > >frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > >years experience!!! > > > >'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure > how > >these are done...' (But it says on your resume > you've > >done this???) > > > >'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > >datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's > not > >how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > >'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > >starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? > What?) > > > >'During this time, everything is written to the > redo > >logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > >reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > >I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > >backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of > them > >got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as > to > >what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > >know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. > I > >asked every candidate how they would do an online > >recover of a datafile while the database was still > in > >use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > >I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of > this > >list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as knowledgeable as you > >guys? Perhaps I'm asking too much? > > > >Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > > >mkb > > > > > >__ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com > >-- > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.com > >-- > >Author: mkb > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 > FAX: (858) 538-5051 > >San Diego, California-- Public Internet > access / Mailing > >Lists > > > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and > >in > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > >also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). > > > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Alan Davey > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: > (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet > access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-
RE: Rant
re: > Results spoiling the image on OCP. what "image", the marketing people's garbage? the clueless HR departments? big software companies make a lot of money from training and certification, so they have an incentive to selectively present information in such a way as to convince the inexperienced that they "MUST HAVE CERTIFICATION". why should people swallow that kind of terdliness without excersising some prudence and independent judgement? do a web search on the history of computer industry certification to see that there is a lot of controversy about the practical "value" of the certification the diferent vendors offer, and how it has changed over time (start with Novell around 1990?). On 22 Jul 2002 at 8:13, Nirmal Kumar Muthu Kumaran wrote: > Gurus, > > "ocp will let you enter into an interview" - proved. > > However the candidates failed to prove it. > > Results spoiling the image on OCP. > > Nirmal. > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:24 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > mkb, > > Your surprised? Over the last 6 years I've interviewed many a candidate > while we added two DBA's to the group. I've gotten a lot of answers like > this: > > Question: How do you create a table? > Answer: The developer sends me a script. I run script. ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Rant-Rant
I have been reading this list for the past several months as I prepare to move my universe of databases from 7.3 to 9 (probably 9) and I have a rant of my own. It seems that the implicit expectation is that every DBA should be or should aspire to be a Master Technical DBA. I have a slightly different take on the situation. It is a little convoluted but I believe that the DBA world needs some additional job classifications. In a decent sized organization, the day to day management functions should be accomplished by an Admin DBA who might be someone who was perfectly happy spending his/her working career operating a precision milling machine at Boeing. Since the machinist jobs are going away, I see no reason why a competent machinist could not become a competent admin DBA. Such a person is not suited by aptitude or disposition to become a Master Technical DBA, but would do a great job at the admin level. I'll extend the analogy a little more: the manufacturing organization does not expect the machinist to program the machine. They either have on staff or bring in a numerical control programming specialist. Similarly, the Admin DBA should know which tasks he/she can perform and which tasks should be kicked up or out to the next level. So maybe some of the energy spent on this list about relevance of the OCP and discussing qualifications of DBAs (against an unspecified standard) could be spent defining organizational strategies for getting the best use out of human capital represented by "Admin DBAs" and pricing the skill set appropriately. The worst possible thing is to get an Admin DBA into a Technical DBA position. I think the key breakthrough is the notion that there is a DBA track that does not inevitably lead to Master Technical DBA. That is why I use the machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending 25 years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs type indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of the population fits this profile. I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free up my time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire society better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch of great people in the process. (Sez the man operating a three person software company). Re: Hotbackups. In the last three months I have adapted the scripts from the Kevin Loney book for 4 separate databases. I have inspected them very carefully to make sure all of the files are the there. I think that I understand the what, how and why of hot backups. And I still had to go look to see that it was an alter tablespace rather than an alter database command to backup the tablespace. re Politics: Given the rather idealistic tone of this missive, I guess I should add that I am down the middle Libertarian who tends to vote Republican because I'm most concerned about taxes. At 06:58 AM 7/22/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Ok, I need to vent a little. > >Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over >the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with >about 2-3 years experience. > >I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I >think that I ask particularly tough questions. The >questions that I ask potential candidates are soley >based on what is on the resume. So I figure if >someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their >resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly >intelligent conversation about these topics. No such >luck! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robert Monical INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
IT'S NOT a radio button... It is a regular CLICKY button geez
-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:24 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Good rant. :)
I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is "I click on this item
on the GUI..." (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory behind
that little radio button)
--- mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ok, I need to vent a little.
>
> Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over
> the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with
> about 2-3 years experience.
>
> I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I
> think that I ask particularly tough questions. The
> questions that I ask potential candidates are soley
> based on what is on the resume. So I figure if
> someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their
> resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly
> intelligent conversation about these topics. No such
> luck!
>
> What really frustrated me, and what I really want to
> get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to,
> had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about
> recovery. I asked each and every candidate who
> claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high
> level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care
> about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers
> I got were completely off base, baffling and
> frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5
> years experience!!!
>
> 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how
> these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've
> done this???)
>
> 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the
> datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not
> how a hot backup is done, right?)
>
> 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup
> starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?)
>
> 'During this time, everything is written to the redo
> logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been
> reading one of those books, haven't you?)
>
> I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in
> backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them
> got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to
> what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't
> know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I
> asked every candidate how they would do an online
> recover of a datafile while the database was still in
> use. No ideas. Not even close.
>
> I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this
> list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as
> knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too
> much?
>
> Rant over. Thanks for listening.
>
> mkb
>
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
> http://health.yahoo.com
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: mkb
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
>
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Rachel Carmichael
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
begin 666 InterScan_Disclaimer.txt
M5&AE(&EN9F]R;6%T:6]N(&-O;G1A:6YE9"!I;B!T:&ES(&4M;6%I;"!I3L@:70@;6%Y(&%L2!P2!A;GEO;F4@;W1H97(@=&AA
M;B!T:&4@:6YT96YD960@2!B92!I;&QE9V%L+B @268@>6]U(&AA=F4@7-T96US+"!)
M;F,N(&AA2!R96%S;VYA8FQE('!R96-A=71I;VX@=&\@
M96YS=7)E('1H870@86YY(&%T=&%C:&UE;G0@=&\@=&AI6]U(&-Ahttp://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: April Wells
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include
Re: Rant
even so, I'd rather have someone tell me "my mind has gone blank, but I know I can look it up in this manual" --- KENNETH JANUSZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One thing to keep in mind is that it is easy to get "rattled" during > a job > interview and have your mind go blank on you. This is especially > true with > computer technical types who are basically introverts. Some years > back when > I was a corporate controller I interviewed a young lady for a admin > type > position. Her interview was a total disaster. She took the typing > test and > completely messed it up. But there was something about her skills > that came > through and I hired her. I was never sorry that I did. She could > type up > complicated tax forms that were always 100% correct. She was a model > employee. > > Sometimes you have to go by your gut feel. Answers to technical > questions > are not the complete picture. > > My $0.02 worth, > > Ken Janusz, CPIM > > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 9:58 AM > > > > Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > > about 2-3 years experience. > > > > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > > someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > > resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > > intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > > luck! > > > > What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > > get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > > had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > > recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > > claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > > level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > > about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > > I got were completely off base, baffling and > > frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > > years experience!!! > > > > 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > > these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > > done this???) > > > > 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > > datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not > > how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > > 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > > starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > > > > 'During this time, everything is written to the redo > > logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > > reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > > asked every candidate how they would do an online > > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > > use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > > I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this > > list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > > knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > > much? > > > > Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > > > mkb > > > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > > http://health.yahoo.com > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: mkb > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like > subscribing). > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: KENNETH JANUSZ > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subs
RE: Rant
Who needs a script! According to the advertising "RAID kills BUGS dead" -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L you have a script that GETS rid of BUGS!?! COOL!!! -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L uh...raid. Oh yes, I have a script for that. --- Alan Davey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So no one responded with, "We use raid xx. We don't > have to worry about backup/recovery." ;^) > > -- > > Alan Davey > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 212-604-0200 x106 > > > On 7/22/02, mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > >Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews > over > >the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone > with > >about 2-3 years experience. > > > >I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > >think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > >questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > >based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > >someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on > their > >resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a > fairly > >intelligent conversation about these topics. No > such > >luck! > > > >What really frustrated me, and what I really want > to > >get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked > to, > >had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget > about > >recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > >claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a > high > >level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't > care > >about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The > answers > >I got were completely off base, baffling and > >frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > >years experience!!! > > > >'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure > how > >these are done...' (But it says on your resume > you've > >done this???) > > > >'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > >datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's > not > >how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > >'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > >starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? > What?) > > > >'During this time, everything is written to the > redo > >logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > >reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > >I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > >backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of > them > >got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as > to > >what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > >know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. > I > >asked every candidate how they would do an online > >recover of a datafile while the database was still > in > >use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > >I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of > this > >list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > >knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > >much? > > > >Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > > >mkb > > > > > >__ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > >http://health.yahoo.com > >-- > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.com > >-- > >Author: mkb > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 > FAX: (858) 538-5051 > >San Diego, California-- Public Internet > access / Mailing > >Lists > > > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and > >in > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > >also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). > > > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Alan Davey > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: > (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet > access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists --
RE: Rant
Referring to the last answer about getting a coffee I don't actually think that is a bad answer!! If he meant "I will not rush in and do something rash, rather I will plan what I am going to do and check the book to make sure that I am correct" then I think that is a perfectly acceptable approach. You can strike me from the list now after that rash comment John -Original Message- Sent: 22 July 2002 16:24 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L mkb, Your surprised? Over the last 6 years I've interviewed many a candidate while we added two DBA's to the group. I've gotten a lot of answers like this: Question: How do you create a table? Answer: The developer sends me a script. I run script. Question: How do you shutdown a database? Answer: Turn off the power to the computer. Question: How do you change the block size of a database. Answer: Change it in init.ora, restart database. Question: How do you add a datafile to a tablespace? Answer: You can't. Question: What are archived redo logs? Answer: There is no such thing. BTW: these folks had an OCP certificate. Best answer to a question I've asked: Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, what do you do. Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look in recovery manual. We hired the guy, he's still here 2 years later and just recently got his OCP. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 7/22/2002 6:58 AM Ok, I need to vent a little. Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with about 2-3 years experience. I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I think that I ask particularly tough questions. The questions that I ask potential candidates are soley based on what is on the resume. So I figure if someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly intelligent conversation about these topics. No such luck! What really frustrated me, and what I really want to get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about recovery. I asked each and every candidate who claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers I got were completely off base, baffling and frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 years experience!!! 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've done this???) 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not how a hot backup is done, right?) 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) 'During this time, everything is written to the redo logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been reading one of those books, haven't you?) I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I asked every candidate how they would do an online recover of a datafile while the database was still in use. No ideas. Not even close. I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too much? Rant over. Thanks for listening. mkb __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be remov
RE: Rant
I read your rant, and I agree with you. But I do have one little itsy bitsy question... > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > asked every candidate how they would do an online > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > use. No ideas. Not even close. How DO you do an online recovery of a datafile while the database is still in use? I've had to do recoveries before, but never this scenario. Thanks, Mike -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
> Best answer to a question I've asked: >Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, what do you do. >Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look in recovery manual. YES Once upon a time while self-employed as a high powered consultant, er uh, lowly DBA contractor, I was coming into my client about 7AM facing an URGENT recovery of a key production system. I reviewed the manuals on my laptop while riding the train and stood in line for a Venti Sumatra at Starbucks. When I walked in the director looked at my coffee cup but said nothing. Within a few minutes the recovery was complete. Later the director asked about why the recovery went so smooth. My reply was, "Good backups and good coffee." The director had hands on technical experience and appreciated the value of both. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant
Jim, So how many like this did you hear?. John P Weatherman Database Administrator Replacements Ltd. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 11:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L mkb, Your surprised? Over the last 6 years I've interviewed many a candidate while we added two DBA's to the group. I've gotten a lot of answers like this: Question: How do you create a table? Answer: The developer sends me a script. I run script. Question: How do you shutdown a database? Answer: Turn off the power to the computer. Question: How do you change the block size of a database. Answer: Change it in init.ora, restart database. Question: How do you add a datafile to a tablespace? Answer: You can't. Question: What are archived redo logs? Answer: There is no such thing. BTW: these folks had an OCP certificate. Best answer to a question I've asked: Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, what do you do. Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look in recovery manual. We hired the guy, he's still here 2 years later and just recently got his OCP. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 7/22/2002 6:58 AM Ok, I need to vent a little. Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with about 2-3 years experience. I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I think that I ask particularly tough questions. The questions that I ask potential candidates are soley based on what is on the resume. So I figure if someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly intelligent conversation about these topics. No such luck! What really frustrated me, and what I really want to get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about recovery. I asked each and every candidate who claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers I got were completely off base, baffling and frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 years experience!!! 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've done this???) 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not how a hot backup is done, right?) 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) 'During this time, everything is written to the redo logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been reading one of those books, haven't you?) I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I asked every candidate how they would do an online recover of a datafile while the database was still in use. No ideas. Not even close. I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too much? Rant over. Thanks for listening. mkb __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: John Weatherman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858)
RE: Rant
you have a script that GETS rid of BUGS!?! COOL!!! -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L uh...raid. Oh yes, I have a script for that. --- Alan Davey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So no one responded with, "We use raid xx. We don't > have to worry about backup/recovery." ;^) > > -- > > Alan Davey > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 212-604-0200 x106 > > > On 7/22/02, mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Ok, I need to vent a little. > > > >Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews > over > >the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone > with > >about 2-3 years experience. > > > >I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > >think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > >questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > >based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > >someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on > their > >resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a > fairly > >intelligent conversation about these topics. No > such > >luck! > > > >What really frustrated me, and what I really want > to > >get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked > to, > >had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget > about > >recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > >claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a > high > >level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't > care > >about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The > answers > >I got were completely off base, baffling and > >frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > >years experience!!! > > > >'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure > how > >these are done...' (But it says on your resume > you've > >done this???) > > > >'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > >datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's > not > >how a hot backup is done, right?) > > > >'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > >starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? > What?) > > > >'During this time, everything is written to the > redo > >logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > >reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > > >I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > >backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of > them > >got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as > to > >what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > >know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. > I > >asked every candidate how they would do an online > >recover of a datafile while the database was still > in > >use. No ideas. Not even close. > > > >I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of > this > >list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > >knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > >much? > > > >Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > > >mkb > > > > > >__ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > >http://health.yahoo.com > >-- > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.com > >-- > >Author: mkb > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 > FAX: (858) 538-5051 > >San Diego, California-- Public Internet > access / Mailing > >Lists > > > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and > >in > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > >also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). > > > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Alan Davey > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: > (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet > access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a li
RE: Rant
Gurus, "ocp will let you enter into an interview" - proved. However the candidates failed to prove it. Results spoiling the image on OCP. Nirmal. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L mkb, Your surprised? Over the last 6 years I've interviewed many a candidate while we added two DBA's to the group. I've gotten a lot of answers like this: Question: How do you create a table? Answer: The developer sends me a script. I run script. Question: How do you shutdown a database? Answer: Turn off the power to the computer. Question: How do you change the block size of a database. Answer: Change it in init.ora, restart database. Question: How do you add a datafile to a tablespace? Answer: You can't. Question: What are archived redo logs? Answer: There is no such thing. BTW: these folks had an OCP certificate. Best answer to a question I've asked: Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, what do you do. Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look in recovery manual. We hired the guy, he's still here 2 years later and just recently got his OCP. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 7/22/2002 6:58 AM Ok, I need to vent a little. Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with about 2-3 years experience. I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I think that I ask particularly tough questions. The questions that I ask potential candidates are soley based on what is on the resume. So I figure if someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly intelligent conversation about these topics. No such luck! What really frustrated me, and what I really want to get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about recovery. I asked each and every candidate who claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers I got were completely off base, baffling and frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 years experience!!! 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've done this???) 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not how a hot backup is done, right?) 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) 'During this time, everything is written to the redo logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been reading one of those books, haven't you?) I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I asked every candidate how they would do an online recover of a datafile while the database was still in use. No ideas. Not even close. I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too much? Rant over. Thanks for listening. mkb __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nirmal Kumar Muthu Kumaran INET: [E
Re: Rant
Good rant. :) I sympathize. The answer I get more and more is "I click on this item on the GUI..." (I didn't ask you that, I asked you the theory behind that little radio button) --- mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ok, I need to vent a little. > > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > about 2-3 years experience. > > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > luck! > > What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > I got were completely off base, baffling and > frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > years experience!!! > > 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > done this???) > > 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not > how a hot backup is done, right?) > > 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > > 'During this time, everything is written to the redo > logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > asked every candidate how they would do an online > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > use. No ideas. Not even close. > > I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this > list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > much? > > Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > mkb > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: mkb > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
