Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
HI Wojtekm >From my experience NVidia drivers work great under X11, either via twin view, or multiple cards driving multiple windows. So I don't think it's a case of NVidia needing to support OSG better, rather just improve there Windows drivers. It might be that OSG developers/users tend to be at the professional end of the market so more likely to drive multiple monitors/cards. That does lead us on to the lack of support for this market segment. Personally I'd rather ATI/AMD and NVidia spend more time doing better support for multi-monitors, and multi-threaded multi-contexts and let us control the compositing than doing silly marketing driven stuff like SLI and Crossfire. Robert. On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Wojciech Lewandowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi J-S, > > > > That may be a problem because we're always in multiscreen mode here, > > both simulators and developers. On Windows XP we use horizontal span > > mode, but on Vista it doesn't exist anymore so we use DualView... > > > It's a bit disturbing to see that the behaviour is so wildly different > > from one driver to another. I'd have thought that if games work (and all > > games have shadows nowadays) then we'd be able to make it work too, but > > I guess it might be up to better support for DirectX than for OpenGL in > > the drivers... > > Plus normal user usually has one monitor :-(. It would be good If we could > get some NVidia support for OSG. Maybe we should try to write to their > developers forum but this is particularly difficult problem and my personal > experience with them isn't too encouraging. Some time ago I reported few > issues - got the reply only once. So I stopped trying. I am sure it would be > different if I was from Epic or ID software, though... I am curious what are > other users opinions. I guess some folks on this forum might had worked with > some of NVidia engineers in the past. Maybe they can do something about > this... > > Cheers, > Wojtek > > PS. Hey, I am ready to swallow my words and apologize if someone from NVIdia > is eager to help ;-) > > > > ___ > osg-users mailing list > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org > ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
J-S, I have found few minutes to do the test again at work. Only thing I changed was the drivers. I went back to antique 94.24 version. Test WORKS with these drivers. Only case when it fails is when I run on two monitors. But two monitor issues are even worse than multithreading issues and here I am almost 99% sure, fault is in the drivers part. I don't event want to talk about all the problems with dual view I had in the past ;-) Cheers, Wojtek - Original Message - From: "Jean-Sébastien Guay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "OpenSceneGraph Users" Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode > Hello Wojtek, > >> I did the test at home. I have really crappy machine there. WinXP Athlon >> XP >> 1700 and AGP GeForce 6200 (drivers ver 169.28). And guess what ? It works >> ;-). > > Hmmm. I wonder if I went back to similar drivers here and tried it... I > might try that early next week (I have a deadline to meet today, and > tomorrow is off in Canada for Easter). > > Thanks for continuing your testing! I'm still not discounting the > possibility that it's a combination of something to tweak in OSG *and* > some driver weirdness that causes this, but at least we're getting some > data about the problem (and I'm relieved to not be the only one seeing > it). > > J-S > -- > __ > Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://www.cm-labs.com/ > http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ > ___ > osg-users mailing list > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
Hi J-S, > That may be a problem because we're always in multiscreen mode here, > both simulators and developers. On Windows XP we use horizontal span > mode, but on Vista it doesn't exist anymore so we use DualView... > It's a bit disturbing to see that the behaviour is so wildly different > from one driver to another. I'd have thought that if games work (and all > games have shadows nowadays) then we'd be able to make it work too, but > I guess it might be up to better support for DirectX than for OpenGL in > the drivers... Plus normal user usually has one monitor :-(. It would be good If we could get some NVidia support for OSG. Maybe we should try to write to their developers forum but this is particularly difficult problem and my personal experience with them isn't too encouraging. Some time ago I reported few issues - got the reply only once. So I stopped trying. I am sure it would be different if I was from Epic or ID software, though... I am curious what are other users opinions. I guess some folks on this forum might had worked with some of NVidia engineers in the past. Maybe they can do something about this... Cheers, Wojtek PS. Hey, I am ready to swallow my words and apologize if someone from NVIdia is eager to help ;-) ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
Hello Wojtek, > I have found few minutes to do the test again at work. Only thing I changed > was the drivers. I went back to antique 94.24 version. > Test WORKS with these drivers. Nice, more data! > Only case when it fails is when I run on two monitors. But two monitor > issues are even worse than multithreading issues and here I am almost 99% > sure, fault is in the drivers part. I don't event want to talk about all the > problems with dual view I had in the past ;-) That may be a problem because we're always in multiscreen mode here, both simulators and developers. On Windows XP we use horizontal span mode, but on Vista it doesn't exist anymore so we use DualView... It's a bit disturbing to see that the behaviour is so wildly different from one driver to another. I'd have thought that if games work (and all games have shadows nowadays) then we'd be able to make it work too, but I guess it might be up to better support for DirectX than for OpenGL in the drivers... J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
Hello Wojtek, > I did the test at home. I have really crappy machine there. WinXP Athlon XP > 1700 and AGP GeForce 6200 (drivers ver 169.28). And guess what ? It works > ;-). Hmmm. I wonder if I went back to similar drivers here and tried it... I might try that early next week (I have a deadline to meet today, and tomorrow is off in Canada for Easter). Thanks for continuing your testing! I'm still not discounting the possibility that it's a combination of something to tweak in OSG *and* some driver weirdness that causes this, but at least we're getting some data about the problem (and I'm relieved to not be the only one seeing it). J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
Hi J-S, I did the test at home. I have really crappy machine there. WinXP Athlon XP 1700 and AGP GeForce 6200 (drivers ver 169.28). And guess what ? It works ;-). Since its single core machine and agp it still does not bring us closer to answering the question whether OSG or Driver fails, but at least there is one case when it works ;-) Since this machine is single core osgshadow starts with SingleThreaded mode. But I did aditional test - I forced it to start with CullDrawThreadPerContext. And in this case problem appears again. After pressing 'm' couple times shadow map freezes. So reasumming when is start in SingleThreaded mode it works. When it starts in CullDrawThreadPerContext it stops working. Interesting isn't it ? Had no more time to continue experiments maybe will do more on weekend. It would be interesting if somebodey with single core machine and decent PCI express GeForce did the test... Cheers, Wojtek - Original Message - From: "Jean-Sébastien Guay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "OpenSceneGraph Users" Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode > Hi Wojtek, > >> I was on vactions. But if you are still interested I did the test you >> wanted. > > Of course I am interested. :-) Thanks for testing. Seems like the more > recent nVidia drivers give problems when switching threading modes, and > older ones are OK. Unfortunately I am on Vista so using old drivers > usually gives me other problems :-( > > Anyways, I think we'll chalk it down to a driver bug until more > information is available. Thanks again for testing. > > J-S > -- > __ > Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://www.cm-labs.com/ > http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ > ___ > osg-users mailing list > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
Hi Wojtek, > I was on vactions. But if you are still interested I did the test you > wanted. Of course I am interested. :-) Thanks for testing. Seems like the more recent nVidia drivers give problems when switching threading modes, and older ones are OK. Unfortunately I am on Vista so using old drivers usually gives me other problems :-( Anyways, I think we'll chalk it down to a driver bug until more information is available. Thanks again for testing. J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
Hi J-S, I was on vactions. But if you are still interested I did the test you wanted. I have added ThreadingHandler to shadow example. Pressing m does not crash the program but freezes shadow map. Shadow map is no longer refreshed. I did the same quick test with prerender example and results are similar. So the issue is wider and might be related to RTT camera usage. I also did prerender test with -fb (render to frame buffer switch) and everyting worked correctly. My machine is Athlon 64 X2, GeForce 7800 GTX, Windows XP (drivers ver 169.44). Tested on Single Monitor and Dual Monitor with all possible multithreading optimization choices from NVidia control panel. None of the NVidia options seemed to fix the results. Cheers, Wojtek > - Original Message - > From: "Jean-Sébastien Guay" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Newsgroups: gmane.comp.graphics.openscenegraph.user > To: "OpenSceneGraph Users" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 7:35 PM > Subject: Re: Shadow Map and threading mode > > >> Hi all, >> >> So since no one has replied, I gather no one else has had any problems >> changing the threading mode when shadows are enabled (for example, in >> the osgshadow example)? >> >> J-S >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I was wondering if there were any known problems related to using >>> osgShadow::ShadowMap and changing the threading mode. >>> >>> In the osgshadow example (SVN), if I change the threading mode (I added >>> a threading handler to it) my graphics driver crashes. >>> >>> In our own software based on OSG 2.2 and using a CompositeViewer, on >>> some machines the problem is more interesting (after a fashion): when >>> the threading mode is changed, the shadow stops moving with the mobile >>> object which causes it (i.e. it stays where it was when the threading >>> mode changed, apparently not updating anymore). >>> >>> On my own machine it just crashes as well, like the SVN version, but on >>> others that's what happens. I haven't double-checked on those machines >>> what happens with the osgshadow example though. >>> >>> So, I just want to know if I should expect it to work or if that's >>> something that's expected not to work for now. >>> >>> This is on Windows (XP / Vista), nVidia 7900 and 8800 cards. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> J-S >> >> >> -- >> __ >> Jean-Sebastien Guay >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>http://www.cm-labs.com/ >> http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ > ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
btw I seem to see a rendering artifact: the effect is that a large poly seems to be above the scene, resulting in a rotating shadow. As far as I remember this was not here in version 2.2.0... see the attached image. best regards Raymond Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote: Hello Alberto, Works fine in Linux, nVidia 7600 GS [169.07] (Linux 2.6.22-3-amd64 #1 SMP x86_64): Threading model 'CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext' selected. Threading model 'SingleThreaded' selected. Threading model 'CullDrawThreadPerContext' selected. Threading model 'DrawThreadPerContext' selected. Threading model 'CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext' selected. Threading model 'SingleThreaded' selected. Threading model 'CullDrawThreadPerContext' selected. Threading model 'DrawThreadPerContext' selected. Threading model 'CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext' selected. Threading model 'SingleThreaded' selected. Threading model 'CullDrawThreadPerContext' selected. Interesting. I'll wait to see if someone can test on Windows too. Thanks for testing, J-S <>___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
Hi, I've tested as you suggested and there is a difference between my single core laptop and dual core desktop. This is what I did: * explicitly specified ShadowMap via -sm * I used yesterdays svn (had to add 2 dummy implementations in SceneGraphBuilder.cpp) version on Windows XP, debug mode MS Visual Studio 2005 * Desktop Windows XP, driver version 6.14.11.6921 (12/5/2007), GeForce 7950 GX2, working fine * Laptop Dell Inspiron 8600 (= single core), driver version 6.14.11.6218 (6/29/2007), osgshadow stops when "Threading model 'CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext' selected.". It does not crash or so, breaking in VS reports that "The process appears to be deadlocked (or is not running any user-mode code). All threads have been stopped" Do you want me to test anything else? Or want any other info? best regards Raymond btw my laptop did reveal another issue some time ago with the multi-texturing btw (ie single threaded issue), also reported on the list Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote: > Hello Alberto, > > >> Works fine in Linux, nVidia 7600 GS [169.07] (Linux 2.6.22-3-amd64 #1 SMP >> x86_64): >> >> Threading model 'CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext' selected. >> Threading model 'SingleThreaded' selected. >> Threading model 'CullDrawThreadPerContext' selected. >> Threading model 'DrawThreadPerContext' selected. >> Threading model 'CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext' selected. >> Threading model 'SingleThreaded' selected. >> Threading model 'CullDrawThreadPerContext' selected. >> Threading model 'DrawThreadPerContext' selected. >> Threading model 'CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext' selected. >> Threading model 'SingleThreaded' selected. >> Threading model 'CullDrawThreadPerContext' selected. >> > > Interesting. I'll wait to see if someone can test on Windows too. > > Thanks for testing, > > J-S > ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
Hello Alberto, > Works fine in Linux, nVidia 7600 GS [169.07] (Linux 2.6.22-3-amd64 #1 SMP > x86_64): > > Threading model 'CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext' selected. > Threading model 'SingleThreaded' selected. > Threading model 'CullDrawThreadPerContext' selected. > Threading model 'DrawThreadPerContext' selected. > Threading model 'CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext' selected. > Threading model 'SingleThreaded' selected. > Threading model 'CullDrawThreadPerContext' selected. > Threading model 'DrawThreadPerContext' selected. > Threading model 'CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext' selected. > Threading model 'SingleThreaded' selected. > Threading model 'CullDrawThreadPerContext' selected. Interesting. I'll wait to see if someone can test on Windows too. Thanks for testing, J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
El Tuesday 11 March 2008 13:59:12 Jean-Sébastien Guay escribió:
> You can just add
>
> viewer.addEventHandler( new osgViewer::ThreadingHandler() );
>
> to the osgshadow example (around where the other handlers are added) and
> comment this line:
>
> //viewer.setThreadingModel(osgViewer::Viewer::SingleThreaded);
>
> You'll see that even when the viewer starts in a mode other than
> SingleThreaded, it runs fine. Press 'm' - in my case that makes my
> graphics driver crash ("graphics driver has stopped responding and has
> recovered" message in the system tray). Does it do that for you?
Works fine in Linux, nVidia 7600 GS [169.07] (Linux 2.6.22-3-amd64 #1 SMP
x86_64):
Threading model 'CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext' selected.
Threading model 'SingleThreaded' selected.
Threading model 'CullDrawThreadPerContext' selected.
Threading model 'DrawThreadPerContext' selected.
Threading model 'CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext' selected.
Threading model 'SingleThreaded' selected.
Threading model 'CullDrawThreadPerContext' selected.
Threading model 'DrawThreadPerContext' selected.
Threading model 'CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext' selected.
Threading model 'SingleThreaded' selected.
Threading model 'CullDrawThreadPerContext' selected.
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Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
Hello Raymond,
> Do you have an example which I can try. Then I can give it a try here,
> on a couple of machines.
You can just add
viewer.addEventHandler( new osgViewer::ThreadingHandler() );
to the osgshadow example (around where the other handlers are added) and
comment this line:
//viewer.setThreadingModel(osgViewer::Viewer::SingleThreaded);
You'll see that even when the viewer starts in a mode other than
SingleThreaded, it runs fine. Press 'm' - in my case that makes my
graphics driver crash ("graphics driver has stopped responding and has
recovered" message in the system tray). Does it do that for you?
I appreciate your testing. Thanks,
J-S
--
__
Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cm-labs.com/
http://whitestar02.webhop.org/
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Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
Hi J-S, Do you have an example which I can try. Then I can give it a try here, on a couple of machines. Bye Raymond Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote: > Hi all, > > So since no one has replied, I gather no one else has had any problems > changing the threading mode when shadows are enabled (for example, in > the osgshadow example)? > > J-S > > > >> Hello, >> >> I was wondering if there were any known problems related to using >> osgShadow::ShadowMap and changing the threading mode. >> >> In the osgshadow example (SVN), if I change the threading mode (I added >> a threading handler to it) my graphics driver crashes. >> >> In our own software based on OSG 2.2 and using a CompositeViewer, on >> some machines the problem is more interesting (after a fashion): when >> the threading mode is changed, the shadow stops moving with the mobile >> object which causes it (i.e. it stays where it was when the threading >> mode changed, apparently not updating anymore). >> >> On my own machine it just crashes as well, like the SVN version, but on >> others that's what happens. I haven't double-checked on those machines >> what happens with the osgshadow example though. >> >> So, I just want to know if I should expect it to work or if that's >> something that's expected not to work for now. >> >> This is on Windows (XP / Vista), nVidia 7900 and 8800 cards. >> >> Thanks, >> >> J-S >> > > > ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Shadow Map and threading mode
Hi all, So since no one has replied, I gather no one else has had any problems changing the threading mode when shadows are enabled (for example, in the osgshadow example)? J-S > Hello, > > I was wondering if there were any known problems related to using > osgShadow::ShadowMap and changing the threading mode. > > In the osgshadow example (SVN), if I change the threading mode (I added > a threading handler to it) my graphics driver crashes. > > In our own software based on OSG 2.2 and using a CompositeViewer, on > some machines the problem is more interesting (after a fashion): when > the threading mode is changed, the shadow stops moving with the mobile > object which causes it (i.e. it stays where it was when the threading > mode changed, apparently not updating anymore). > > On my own machine it just crashes as well, like the SVN version, but on > others that's what happens. I haven't double-checked on those machines > what happens with the osgshadow example though. > > So, I just want to know if I should expect it to work or if that's > something that's expected not to work for now. > > This is on Windows (XP / Vista), nVidia 7900 and 8800 cards. > > Thanks, > > J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guay[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
