RE: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
The Enterprise one is the enterprise edition. The other download is the Professional / Home edition (what gets installed depends on the product key you enter during setup) Enterprise edition requires you to enter the Enterprise MAK key to activate The other editions use the Retail keys available on the My Product Keys page Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2012 11:23 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8 Greg, Windows 8 (RTM) was released 1st August for MSDN subscriptions. There must have been another drop because the date on the downloads that are there now show 15/8/2012. I'd have to check the iso's i have at home to compare them. I'd also probably go for the en_windows_8_x64_dvd_915440.iso one unless you need the enterprise version for some particular reason. no idea how they differ, if at all? In any case, us developers get a headstart... we have to write for their OS after all. :) On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.netmailto:g...@mira.net wrote: There should be no confusion with regards to version, VS Beta goes with Windows Beta, VS RC goes with Windows RC, VS RTM does with Windows RTM. I just have a fear of downloading 3.3GB and getting the wrong file. I've started a download of the file below, hoping it's the RTM (the letters RTM are not mentioned on the download pages). The date 16-Aug seems bit early compared to the official release date of 26-Oct. Is this the right one? Greg Windows 8 Enterprise (x64) - DVD (English) ISO|English|Release Date: 8/16/2012|Details 3329 MB File Name: en_windows_8_enterprise_x64_dvd_917522.iso Languages: English SHA1: 4EADFE83E736621234C63E8465986F0AF6AA3C82
RE: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
Enterprise edition requires you to enter the Enterprise MAK key to activate Take care here, as I could only activate by these commands: slmgr -ipk X-X-X-X-X slmgr -ato Overall though, I've got Win8 and VS2012 up and running in a VM and it's going well. After a couple of hours of using Win8 in a semi-realistic way I'm getting a feel for the pros and cons. The gaping chasm between the world of Win8 Metro and our current shell environment is starting to sting. There are not yet any Metro apps that interest me, despite trying most the standard ones and some of the store samples. As smooth and lovely as some of the Metro apps are, they are huge, clumsy and full of empty space; I feel like a 2 year old fumbling with a coloured blocks. I can't directly start any of my daily working apps from the old no-Start-button shell without making desktop shortcuts (not a habit of mine), I have to go back to the Metro Apps screen to launch something. So I'm continually going back and forth like a madman between the two worlds. It's like having two different operating systems stuck together in an unholy embrace, each vying for my attention. When I'm on the Metro side I'm utterly fed-up with having each app fill my screen. I start IE, Music, SkyDrive, Calendar, etc and each one fills my gigantic screen and I have to Alt-Tab madly to find what I was doing as I can't find a way of knowing at any time what is actually running (and my real work is back on the old shell anyway). So after a few hours my Win8 experience is not going well. Perhaps there are shortcuts and UI tricks I'm not aware of yet to help me, but they're not obvious. Developers like us are not ordinary users, so perhaps it's unfair to compare my experience with what your average suburbanite will feel. I remain bewildered by the split-personality operating system and the huge obtrusive clumsiness of Metro apps. I'm trying not to be biased by what I'm used to, but unless I find lots of UI shortcut tricks and tips Win8 will be mostly redundant and I'll spend my working day in the old shell which still has things called windows. If there are developers out there now using Win8 in anger for daily work I'd be interested to hear your practical counter-arguments to my newbie complaints. Greg
RE: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
Greg, you can also do - SLUI 3 This gives you a dialog to enter the key. Bill Chesnut BizTalk Server MVP Melbourne, Australia _ From: Greg Keogh [mailto:g...@mira.net] To: 'ozDotNet' [mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com] Sent: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 23:31:40 +1100 Subject: RE: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8 Enterprise edition requires you to enter the Enterprise MAK key to activate Take care here, as I could only activate by these commands: slmgr -ipk X-X-X-X-X slmgr -ato Overall though, I’ve got Win8 and VS2012 up and running in a VM and it’s going well. After a couple of hours of using Win8 in a semi-realistic way I’m getting a feel for the pros and cons. The gaping chasm between the world of Win8 Metro and our current shell environment is starting to sting. There are not yet any Metro apps that interest me, despite trying most the standard ones and some of the store samples. As smooth and lovely as some of the Metro apps are, they are huge, clumsy and full of empty space; I feel like a 2 year old fumbling with a coloured blocks. I can’t directly start any of my daily working apps from the old no-Start-button shell without making desktop shortcuts (not a habit of mine), I have to go back to the Metro Apps screen to launch something. So I’m continually going back and forth like a madman between the two worlds. It’s like having two different operating systems stuck together in an unholy embrace, each vying for my attention. When I’m on the Metro side I’m utterly fed-up with having each app fill my screen. I start IE, Music, SkyDrive, Calendar, etc and each one fills my gigantic screen and I have to Alt-Tab madly to find what I was doing as I can’t find a way of knowing at any time what is actually running (and my real work is back on the old shell anyway). So after a few hours my Win8 experience is not going well. Perhaps there are shortcuts and UI tricks I’m not aware of yet to help me, but they’re not obvious. Developers like us are not “ordinary” users, so perhaps it’s unfair to compare my experience with what your average suburbanite will feel. I remain bewildered by the split-personality operating system and the huge obtrusive clumsiness of Metro apps. I’m trying not to be biased by what I’m used to, but unless I find lots of UI shortcut tricks and tips Win8 will be mostly redundant and I’ll spend my working day in the old shell which still has things called “windows”. If there are developers out there now using Win8 in anger for daily work I’d be interested to hear your practical counter-arguments to my “newbie” complaints. Greg
RE: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
I agree with you Greg. Having used Win8 now for a development project, I find it so annoying having to switch between the screens. I moved the blocks around so that my most used apps were sitting in the middle of the tile screen, but it wasn't enough. Anything that I use more frequently now ends up on the task bar, which also has a usability issue in that it is becoming cluttered - there needs to be a better way of separating pinned apps and running apps than just putting them all on the desktop. And I continually go for the start orb. I have thought about how I could be efficient knowing the orb ins't there, and I can't see it. I feel it is too easy to lose mental context every time I want to open up another app, and it can take a few minutes to get back to where I was. I am seriously considering getting the startdock add in now, to get my developer efficiency back. If the aim was to reduce the efficiency of developers, then they're going to succeed. I can even imagine the developers inside Microsoft arguing about this themselves internally, and getting shutdown by management. And whoever thought putting the Power button under Settings? I mean, seriously, what were they thinking? T. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2012 11:32 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8 Enterprise edition requires you to enter the Enterprise MAK key to activate Take care here, as I could only activate by these commands: slmgr -ipk X-X-X-X-X slmgr -ato Overall though, I've got Win8 and VS2012 up and running in a VM and it's going well. After a couple of hours of using Win8 in a semi-realistic way I'm getting a feel for the pros and cons. The gaping chasm between the world of Win8 Metro and our current shell environment is starting to sting. There are not yet any Metro apps that interest me, despite trying most the standard ones and some of the store samples. As smooth and lovely as some of the Metro apps are, they are huge, clumsy and full of empty space; I feel like a 2 year old fumbling with a coloured blocks. I can't directly start any of my daily working apps from the old no-Start-button shell without making desktop shortcuts (not a habit of mine), I have to go back to the Metro Apps screen to launch something. So I'm continually going back and forth like a madman between the two worlds. It's like having two different operating systems stuck together in an unholy embrace, each vying for my attention. When I'm on the Metro side I'm utterly fed-up with having each app fill my screen. I start IE, Music, SkyDrive, Calendar, etc and each one fills my gigantic screen and I have to Alt-Tab madly to find what I was doing as I can't find a way of knowing at any time what is actually running (and my real work is back on the old shell anyway). So after a few hours my Win8 experience is not going well. Perhaps there are shortcuts and UI tricks I'm not aware of yet to help me, but they're not obvious. Developers like us are not ordinary users, so perhaps it's unfair to compare my experience with what your average suburbanite will feel. I remain bewildered by the split-personality operating system and the huge obtrusive clumsiness of Metro apps. I'm trying not to be biased by what I'm used to, but unless I find lots of UI shortcut tricks and tips Win8 will be mostly redundant and I'll spend my working day in the old shell which still has things called windows. If there are developers out there now using Win8 in anger for daily work I'd be interested to hear your practical counter-arguments to my newbie complaints. Greg
RE: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
Windows 8 RTM is available on MSDN... Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Friday, 28 September 2012 5:33 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8 David K has answered my conundrum and saved me hours of suffering trying to get VS2012 going on Win8 RC. So who is it in here that was doing some Metro development a few weeks ago? Were you using an emulator or some other sleight of hand?
RE: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
There should be no confusion with regards to version, VS Beta goes with Windows Beta, VS RC goes with Windows RC, VS RTM does with Windows RTM. I just have a fear of downloading 3.3GB and getting the wrong file. I've started a download of the file below, hoping it's the RTM (the letters RTM are not mentioned on the download pages). The date 16-Aug seems bit early compared to the official release date of 26-Oct. Is this the right one? Greg Windows 8 Enterprise (x64) - DVD (English) ISO|English|Release Date: 8/16/2012|Details 3329 MB File Name: en_windows_8_enterprise_x64_dvd_917522.iso Languages: English SHA1: 4EADFE83E736621234C63E8465986F0AF6AA3C82
Re: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
Greg, Windows 8 (RTM) was released 1st August for MSDN subscriptions. There must have been another drop because the date on the downloads that are there now show 15/8/2012. I'd have to check the iso's i have at home to compare them. I'd also probably go for the en_windows_8_x64_dvd_915440.iso one unless you need the enterprise version for some particular reason. no idea how they differ, if at all? In any case, us developers get a headstart... we have to write for their OS after all. :) On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: There should be no confusion with regards to version, VS Beta goes with Windows Beta, VS RC goes with Windows RC, VS RTM does with Windows RTM.*** * ** ** I just have a fear of downloading 3.3GB and getting the wrong file. I’ve started a download of the file below, hoping it’s the RTM (the letters RTM are not mentioned on the download pages). The date 16-Aug seems bit early compared to the official release date of 26-Oct. Is this the right one? ** ** Greg ** ** Windows 8 Enterprise (x64) - DVD (English) ISO|English|Release Date: 8/16/2012|Details 3329 MB File Name: en_windows_8_enterprise_x64_dvd_917522.iso Languages: English SHA1: 4EADFE83E736621234C63E8465986F0AF6AA3C82
RE: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
Steve, sorry for the late reply, I'm all signed up via my MSDN Premium subscription as a Store developer with all the Azure free stuff and VS2012 RTM. From what you've said I can see now that I tried the wrong combination. You must have the release of Win8 with VS2012 built-in (I think I saw that as a download). I have been confused by the combinations of releases and downloads. There is no demand, so I'll wait for the real Win8 to hit on 26-Oct (my birthday!) and try some Metro development then. I'm still filled with unease about Win8, but I feel a geek compulsion to get something into the store. I have a few personally useful hobby apps which could be metroised quite well as a learning exercise. I actually am quite excited by the idea of the app store, but I still wonder how it will be managed to prevent it turning into a garbage dump. I hope you have qualified female behaviour consultants guiding you on the Keeping Score app!! Greg
RE: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
Greg, embrace the change. It's a beautiful world. Just remember, if everyone could do it, everyone would. Things could be worse. You might have a job digging holes. Not saying that's bad, we need holes. Just not for me, thanks. Steve, strangely enough, I'm actually complaining this time, well, not in the usual way. I normally do love change (for the better) and I'll bet that like most of the people in this group my motto is If it ain't broke, fix it until it is. David K has answered my conundrum and saved me hours of suffering trying to get VS2012 going on Win8 RC. So who is it in here that was doing some Metro development a few weeks ago? Were you using an emulator or some other sleight of hand? There have been many times over the last couple of years where I think digging holes would be more enjoyable than writing software. I'm sure than any holes I dug would be incompatible with other holes unless I downloaded a special beta digging tool before the official spade went RTM, then I'd find that the final release spade would need to be assembled from downloaded parts with hotfix screws to hold it together, then for rocky soil I'd have to upgrade to Spade Premium Edition which would require complete dismantling of the old spade. Greg
Re: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
We were having a discussion at lunch time about tablets and tablet like interfaces. And though we weren't talking about win8 per se there was two schools of thought. One camp thought that keyboards will always provide a high bandwidth to computer interaction for us (devs) content creators. And that the tablet interfaces will never suffice. While my view was that as abstractions mature more software enabling that content creation through these interfaces will appear, and will improve the bandwidth sufficiently. My view is when wimps appeared keyboard hacks like me found them hard use and to maintain productivity. But as they matured things improved considerably. Key things that come to mind are IDEs with data/tool tips and interactive text windows. And thought I 'hate' windows 8 for being a giant phone it's only a temporary thing until the software matures - v.next++. In fact I'm going as far to bet my career on it again. -- preet On 28 September 2012 19:32, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Greg, embrace the change. It's a beautiful world. Just remember, if everyone could do it, everyone would. Things could be worse. You might have a job digging holes. Not saying that's bad, we need holes. Just not for me, thanks. ** ** Steve, strangely enough, I’m actually complaining this time, well, not in the usual way. I normally do love change (for the better) and I’ll bet that like most of the people in this group my motto is “If it ain’t broke, fix it until it is”. ** ** David K has answered my conundrum and saved me hours of suffering trying to get VS2012 going on Win8 RC. So who is it in here that was doing some Metro development a few weeks ago? Were you using an emulator or some other sleight of hand? ** ** There have been many times over the last couple of years where I think digging holes would be more enjoyable than writing software. I’m sure than any holes I dug would be incompatible with other holes unless I downloaded a special beta digging tool before the official spade went RTM, then I’d find that the final release spade would need to be assembled from downloaded parts with hotfix screws to hold it together, then for rocky soil I’d have to upgrade to Spade Premium Edition which would require complete dismantling of the old spade. ** ** Greg ** **
Re: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
Last night I found myself in front of the Xbox trying out the XBox Smartglass app. It wasn't as smart as I was hoping. It was cool though. Anyway, I found myself looking for apps I could install, and installed the YouTube app. I was disappointed to discover I couldn't do a voice search. Typing with a circular alphabet and xbox controller is slow and painful. Each letter takes several seconds to navigate to the letter. Trying the Kinect to enter it was worse. Nope, for this thing to be usable, I want to speak and it needs to pick up what I said with no error. It also needs to learn how to ignore my ums, and ahs, and that mental hurdle one experiences when you know you have to say it exactly right as you are being recorded or you could end up anywhere. (safe search on thank you). On another note, I've got two apps in the Win8 app store now. Its damned addictive and I've found myself rushing home to code until the wee hours. Need... some... sleep. Third app is pending certification. Hope no one minds if I link em here, i'm pretty chuffed. Now i know what all the fuss is about with those iOs/Android app developers. http://apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/app/combat-tracker/e757139b-b67c-4780-84b9-fdb49b883c72 http://apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/app/keeping-score/650dd144-388b-4a15-80e7-f4e7dc3cf26a Anyone else working on anything they'd like to share? On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Preet Sangha preetsan...@gmail.com wrote: We were having a discussion at lunch time about tablets and tablet like interfaces. And though we weren't talking about win8 per se there was two schools of thought. One camp thought that keyboards will always provide a high bandwidth to computer interaction for us (devs) content creators. And that the tablet interfaces will never suffice. While my view was that as abstractions mature more software enabling that content creation through these interfaces will appear, and will improve the bandwidth sufficiently. My view is when wimps appeared keyboard hacks like me found them hard use and to maintain productivity. But as they matured things improved considerably. Key things that come to mind are IDEs with data/tool tips and interactive text windows. And thought I 'hate' windows 8 for being a giant phone it's only a temporary thing until the software matures - v.next++. In fact I'm going as far to bet my career on it again. -- preet On 28 September 2012 19:32, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Greg, embrace the change. It's a beautiful world. Just remember, if everyone could do it, everyone would. Things could be worse. You might have a job digging holes. Not saying that's bad, we need holes. Just not for me, thanks. ** ** Steve, strangely enough, I’m actually complaining this time, well, not in the usual way. I normally do love change (for the better) and I’ll bet that like most of the people in this group my motto is “If it ain’t broke, fix it until it is”. ** ** David K has answered my conundrum and saved me hours of suffering trying to get VS2012 going on Win8 RC. So who is it in here that was doing some Metro development a few weeks ago? Were you using an emulator or some other sleight of hand? ** ** There have been many times over the last couple of years where I think digging holes would be more enjoyable than writing software. I’m sure than any holes I dug would be incompatible with other holes unless I downloaded a special beta digging tool before the official spade went RTM, then I’d find that the final release spade would need to be assembled from downloaded parts with hotfix screws to hold it together, then for rocky soil I’d have to upgrade to Spade Premium Edition which would require complete dismantling of the old spade. ** ** Greg ** **
RE: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
On another note, I've got two apps in the Win8 app store now. That was the crux of my question ... How on earth did you get them there? What OSs, tools, kits etc in what combination? I can't find any combination that seems to work -- Greg
Re: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
Good link Nick. Windows 8 RTM, with VS 2012 RTM. Resharper (cause i'm a noob without it) Asus eee slate (with Windows 8 on it) for testing the touch stuff. Highly recommend you test with touch. The simulator that comes with VS2012 is good but nothing beats a real device. Lots of late nights. Its addictive. If you have MSDN then you should have a token to sign up on the store for free. (I did with Premium anyway. not sure about Professional I'd assume so). So you register an app, reserve the name you'd like. Fill in the boxes and read all the Learn more links. Write your app. There's a Store menu in Visual Studio that does some Windows 8 app things. Either short cuts that take you to the appropriate page, or kick of tasks such as Package your app, Associate with Application in Windows store (where you point it to the App name you registered). Once you find the Store menu (its under Project menu I think.. ) On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: On another note, I've got two apps in the Win8 app store now. ** ** That was the crux of my question ... How on earth did you get them there? What OSs, tools, kits etc in what combination? I can’t find any combination that seems to work -- Greg ** **
RE: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
VS2012 will only install on Windows 8 RTM. Don't try and trick it into installing, you will only experience pain due the changes between RC and RTM. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 4:44 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8 Folks, I thought I'd install VS2012 RTM on Windows 8 release Preview Build 8400 to experiment with some Metro apps, but it won't install due to: The .NET Framework installed on this machine does not meet the minimum required version: 4.5.50709. Web searches find lots of complaints about this, but no answers. A few weeks ago someone in here had a problem with Metro app development, so I'm wondering how you actually got far enough to get started. Can anyone tell me how to get off the starting blocks to experiment with Metro apps? Are there any extra dependencies or downloads required? I'll keep searching in the meantime. As an aside for Friday: I'm still wondering and worried about Windows 8 and Metro Apps. I fired-up Window 8 after a few weeks and I relived the initial shock of first seeing it ... I forgot where everything was, I forgot the hidden shortcuts, I forgot how to do things ... it was like bumbling around in a dark room again. I thought I'd learn to live with it, but I remain shocked and bewildered by the new Start interface, especially by having my 2560x1440 screen turned into a gigantic mobile phone that shows one app at a time. I also wonder about The App Store and who manages the quality, quantity and profits of what appears in it. The whole Windows 8 experience leaves me with a feeling of dread and unease. Greg
Re: VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8
Greg, embrace the change. It's a beautiful world. Just remember, if everyone could do it, everyone would. Things could be worse. You might have a job digging holes. Not saying that's bad, we need holes. Just not for me, thanks. On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 8:16 AM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.comwrote: VS2012 will only install on Windows 8 RTM. Don’t try and trick it into installing, you will only experience pain due the changes between RC and RTM. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Keogh *Sent:* Thursday, September 27, 2012 4:44 PM *To:* 'ozDotNet' *Subject:* VS2012 and Metro Apps on Windows 8 ** ** Folks, I thought I’d install VS2012 RTM on Windows 8 release Preview Build 8400 to experiment with some Metro apps, but it won’t install due to: The .NET Framework installed on this machine does not meet the minimum required version: 4.5.50709. Web searches find lots of complaints about this, but no answers. A few weeks ago someone in here had a problem with Metro app development, so I’m wondering how you actually got far enough to get started. Can anyone tell me how to get off the starting blocks to experiment with Metro apps? Are there any extra dependencies or downloads required? I’ll keep searching in the meantime. ** ** As an aside for Friday: I’m still wondering and worried about Windows 8 and Metro Apps. I fired-up Window 8 after a few weeks and I relived the initial shock of first seeing it ... I forgot where everything was, I forgot the “hidden” shortcuts, I forgot how to do things ... it was like bumbling around in a dark room again. I thought I’d learn to live with it, but I remain shocked and bewildered by the new Start interface, especially by having my 2560x1440 screen turned into a gigantic mobile phone that shows one app at a time. I also wonder about “The App Store” and who manages the quality, quantity and profits of what appears in it. The whole Windows 8 experience leaves me with a feeling of dread and unease. ** ** Greg
