RE: [ozmidwifery] How long before synto is used?

[Dean & Jo]

I supported a woman a few months back who had a SROM but no labour for a
day or two.  She was a birth centre mum but didn’t tell me or them abut
the ROM.  We went in and they said she would have to birth in labour
ward now as it had been 48 hours.  This wonderful gorgeous first time
mum said "I will go home if you don’t let me stay in the birth centre".
I 'played mediator' and requested that they give us a few hours and see
how things went before making such choices.  Every time the midwife came
in -which to her credit was few- we said she was doing fine.  By lunch
time (we had gone in at 6am) there was no real labour to speak of and
for some reason her hubby started t tell jokes and I asked how they had
met which turned out to be a very funny story.  We laughed -really
laughed for almost 30mins and low and behold on came labour.

She birthed beautifully about 5 hours later.  

Bring on those love and laugh hormones!  Perhaps people should suggest
that before synto?

Jo

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries

[Dean & Jo]

Interestingly, 
The cs forum from Sat showed that the rise in cs rate can NOT be
attributed to cs replacing instrumental vaginal births.  The cs rates
increased but the IVD remained the similar in rates.  

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[ozmidwifery] Every choice is equal..but some are more equal than others

[Dean & Jo]

At the CS forum in Vic on the weekend I discussed how differently
choice/fears are concerned when it comes to birthing women:

A woman can choose to birth cs for no medical indicator
But
A woman trying to choose to have a NATURAL vaginal birth is less
supported

A woman who is terrified of vaginal birth would not be force to birth
vaginally 
But
A woman who is terrified of cs is told not to be so silly

A woman can choose and be fully supported to have a cs because she had
one last time
But A woman who wants to choose vbac is given the hard time.

Basically comes down to
A woman can choose an obstetrician
BUT
A woman can not choose a known midwife


Choice, fear, informed decisionsall in the interpretation!

jo

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RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



external wound infections are different to the internal wound are they 
not?  External should not impact on vbac success.

  


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Natural Birth

[Dean & Jo]

What she is asking is how many women actually get to birth without
interventions.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:47 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Natural Birth


Surely if they are (natural, normal, unintervened) it means they don't'
need medical assistance?  What is the real question?  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean & Jo
Sent: Friday, 19 May 2006 7:10 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Natural Birth

Request from another list:
Most specifically, I'm looking for what percentage of  births actually
need intervention/medical assistance.

There's a tricky one!

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[ozmidwifery] Natural Birth

[Dean & Jo]

Request from another list:
Most specifically, I'm looking for what percentage of (natural, normal,
unintervened) births actually need intervention/medical assistance.

There's a tricky one!

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RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



VBAC success rate for someone who had birthed by cs for 
previous twin birth   79%
 
 

Effect of prior vaginal delivery or prior vaginal 
birth after caesarean delivery on obstetric outcomes in women undergoing trial 
of labor.
Obstet 
Gynecol. 2004 Aug;104(2):273-7
Hendler 
I, Bujold E.
OBJECTIVE: We 
sought to study the effects of prior vaginal delivery or prior vaginal birth 
after cesarean delivery (VBAC) on the success of a trial of labor after a 
cesarean delivery. METHODS: An observational study of patients who underwent a 
trial of labor after a single low-transverse cesarean delivery. Patients with a 
previous cesarean delivery and no vaginal birth were compared with patients with 
a single vaginal delivery before or after the previous cesarean delivery. The 
rates of successful VBAC, uterine rupture, and scar dehiscence were analyzed. 
Multivariable regression was performed to adjust for confounding variables. 
RESULTS: Of 2,204 patients, 1,685 (76.4%) had a previous cesarean delivery and 
no vaginal delivery, 198 (9.0%) had a vaginal delivery before the cesarean 
delivery, and 321 (14.6%) had a prior VBAC. The rate of successful trial of 
labor was 70.1%, 81.8%, and 93.1%, respectively (P <.001). A prior VBAC was 
associated with fewer third- and fourth-degree lacerations (8.5% versus 2.5% 
versus 3.7%, P <.001) and fewer operative vaginal deliveries (14.7% versus 
5.6% versus 1.9%, P <.001) but not with uterine rupture (1.5% versus 0.5% 
versus 0.3%, P =.12). Patients with a prior VBAC had, in addition, a higher rate 
of uterine scar dehiscence (21.8%) compared with patients with a previous 
cesarean delivery and no vaginal delivery (5.3%; P =.001). CONCLUSION: A prior 
vaginal delivery and, particularly, a prior VBAC are associated with a higher 
rate of successful trial of labor compared with patients with no prior vaginal 
delivery. In addition, prior VBAC is associated with an increased rate of 
uterine scar dehiscence.
 
the emphasis on that last sentence 
is dehiscence...not rupture.
 
there are a few more studies that 
show women with a previous vagianl birth then a cs are more likely to havea 
successful vbac.  Why would a twin cs be different to a 
singleton???

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary 
  MurphySent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 7:21 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] 
  VBAC
  
  Hi everyone, collective knowledge 
  sought!  Does anyone have any information that would enlighten a woman 
  who has had 2 vaginal births, then twins by C/S and now wants a VBAC.  Is 
  she at increased risk because of the twin C/S?  Thanks, 
  MM
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RE: [ozmidwifery] article FYI

[Dean & Jo]

I know I haven't actually read this whole article but I have read the
title and intro

PLEASE!!! Why can they NOT stop blaming women for cs rates?   You
are too posh; too young; too old; 
too indigenous; too fat; too risky; too stupid.

I don’t actually see the women with scalpels in their hands here
people!!!  

THE DOCTORS MAKE THE DECISIONS !!

THE DOCTORS MAKE THE INCISIONS!!!

GRR GRR GRR GRR





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of leanne wynne
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 10:26 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] article FYI


C-Section Rates: Obesity to Blame?
Patient Requests May Not Be Major Factor in Growing Number of C-Sections
By Charlene  Laino WebMD Medical News

Reviewed By Louise Chang, MD0 on Tuesday, May 09, 2006

May 9, 2006 (Washington) -- Contrary to what many believe, patient
requests 
are probably not the main driving force behind the increasing rates of 
cesarean births in the U.S., doctors say.

Rather, obesity is probably to blame for much of the rise, says Frederic

Frigoletto Jr., MD, professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Harvard 
Medical School in Boston.

The doctors acknowledge that some pregnant women ask their doctors for 
C-sections because of the increased convenience of choosing the time of 
delivery and because of a desire for less painful childbirth.

A National Institutes of Health task force found some increase in
patients' 
requests. "But it certainly didn't account for the sharp increase in 
cesarean deliveries," says Mary D'Alton, MD, chairwoman of obstetrics
and 
gynecology at Columbia University Medical Center in New York.

Frigoletto says his research suggests that the increase in cesarean 
deliveries coincides with the epidemic of obesity in this country.

Obese women are at risk for pregnancy-related complications, including 
hypertension , gestational diabetes, and blood clots, all of which may
lead 
to a recommendation for cesarean delivery, he says.

The experts discussed the rising C-section rates at a news conference at
the 
annual meeting of the American College of Obstetricians and
Gynecologists 
(ACOG).

C-Sections at All-Time High

By 2004, the number of C-sections had reached an all-time high,
accounting 
for 29% of all births -- or 1 million babies -- according to the latest
data 
from the National Center for Health Statistics.

That's in contrast to a 5% rate after World War II, a number that
remained 
relatively stable until it skyrocketed to 15% in the 1970s.

C-sections continued to gain popularity until the early 1990s, by which
time 
22% of babies were delivered by cesarean.

Then reports that women who had undergone a first cesarean delivery
might 
not need a cesarean the next time around led the rate to fall back to
below 
20%.

But this was soon proven false "with studies in the mid-1990s indicating

that attempts for a vaginal delivery after a cesarean was dangerous for
the 
mother," says Stanley Zinberg, MD, deputy executive vice president of
ACOG. 
And so the number rose again.

While ACOG has no formal position on maternal-requested C-sections,
D'Alton 
says that elective procedures should not be performed before 39 weeks of

gestation unless there is a medical reason to do so.

D'Alton also stresses that women should not have more than three or four

cesarean births. Repeated C-sections increase the risk of dangerous 
placental abnormalities in later pregnancies, she explains. More
first-time 
cesareans are now increasing the rate of repeat surgeries later, each of

which carries progressively higher risks to both mother and newborn.

Doctors are seeing more severe life-threatening complications in which
the 
placenta fails to detach from the uterus because it sticks to scars from

previous cesareans in women who have had previous cesarean deliveries,
she 
says.

According to Zinberg, younger women are at less risk of
C-section-associated 
complications.





SOURCES: American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists annual
meeting, 
Washington D.C., May 6-10, 2006. Frederic Frigoletto Jr., MD, professor
of 
obstetrics and gynecology, Harvard Medical School, Boston. Mary D'Alton,
MD, 
chairman of obstetrics and gynecology, Columbia University Medical
Center, 
New York. Stanley Zinberg, MD, deputy executive vice president, ACOG.
News 
release, ACOG.

© 2006 WebMD Inc. All rights reserved



Leanne Wynne
Midwife in charge of "Women's Business"
Mildura Aboriginal Health Service  Mob 0418 371862


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RE: [ozmidwifery] MOY interview

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



Zeshi 
won midwife of the year and Lareen Newman won advocate of the year.  The 
J&J midwife of the year was Patrice O'Loughlin
 
(sorry 
about spelling)

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  sharonSent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 11:49 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] MOY 
  interview
  can anyone tell me who was MOY in south australia 
  i have not seen anything that tells me this.
  regards sharon
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Debbie Slater 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 10:02 
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] MOY 
interview


Mary
 
Could you post what 
she said?  I know that you – the modest person that you are – would not 
‘blow your own trumpet’, but I would love to hear what she said about 
midwifery skills.
 
Debbie
 

Debbie 
Slater
Perth, WA




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mary MurphySent: Saturday, 6 May 2006 6:51 
AMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] MOY 
interview
 
Thanks Jan and 
everyone else!  I was thrilled that the essence of midwifery was being 
celebrated.  The woman who wrote the nomination was concise and 
eloquent in her praise of midwifery skills.  She captured the spirit of 
one to one midwifery care in about 50 words.  It is all I have strived 
to achieve over the years.  It is all that midwives can achieve if they 
are given the right environment. 
  MM
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RE: [ozmidwifery] new idea

[Dean & Jo]

Great letters everyone!
 
But remember when anyone is spouting stats on rupture rates, the 1 in
200 ruptures are not all fatal ruptures.  In fact the .2% was an
'estimated' rate (quote) from the 2001 Australian vbac management study.
There were NO maternal deaths, only hysterectomies and there were no
feotal mortalities: only morbidities.  

So we must be very clear that when we discuss vbac that by using the 1
in 200 stat, we are not confusing women to think they have a 1 in 200
chance of having their baby die due to rupture.

Cheers
Jo

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: International Midwives Day Dinner

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



Sounds 
beautifulI thought you were saying 'eat your greens' as in get rid of your 
green scrubs as midwives not being focused on the operating 
theatre...
 
boy! 
No guessing where my minds at!!! :o)
 
Ha Ha 

Jo

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barbara 
  StokesSent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:23 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: 
  International Midwives Day Dinner
  
  Dear 
  Jo,
  Eugowra is a small 
  village and the former golf club has been transformed into a 
  restaurant/wedding venue etc so the name came from the golfing 
  greens.
  It is a lovely place, 
  lots of old gum trees and green grass/lawn which impresses those of us on 
  water restrictions!
  Eugowra is certainly 
  worth a visit.
  Barbara from 
  Parkes
   
  -Original 
  Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean & JoSent: Wednesday, 
  19 April 2006 
  10:07 
  PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: 
  International Midwives Day Dinner
   
  
  Just for 
  clarification Barbara...what 'greens' were you referring too?? ;o) 
  
  
  I love 
  it!!!
  
-Original 
Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barbara StokesSent: Wednesday, 
April 19, 2006 
4:36 
PMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Re: 
International Midwives Day Dinner
Dear 
Midwives,
We are organising a dinner to 
celebrate International Midwives Day, 5th May 06 at “Eat Your 
Greens” Eugowra, 6.30pm for 
7pm.  Cost is $30.00 each.  Guest Speaker is NUM Forbes, Deb 
Wilden.
If you are interested in coming, 
please phone the Parkes Maternity Unit:  68611 228 or fax:  
68621193.
We are hoping for a large area 
attendance, anyone interested may attend.
RSVP this week 
please.
Thankyou,
Barbara Stokes 
Parkes
 
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: International Midwives Day Dinner

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



Just 
for clarification Barbara...what 'greens' were you referring too?? ;o) 

I love 
it!!!

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barbara 
  StokesSent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 4:36 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Re: 
  International Midwives Day Dinner
  
  Dear 
  Midwives,
  We are organising a dinner to 
  celebrate International Midwives Day, 5th May 06 at “Eat Your 
  Greens” Eugowra, 6.30pm for 
  7pm.  Cost is $30.00 each.  Guest Speaker is NUM Forbes, Deb Wilden.
  If you are interested in coming, 
  please phone the Parkes Maternity Unit:  
  68611 228 or fax:  
  68621193.
  We are hoping for a large area 
  attendance, anyone interested may attend.
  RSVP this week 
  please.
  Thankyou,
  Barbara 
  Stokes 
  Parkes
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[ozmidwifery] Margie Perkins

[Dean & Jo]

Margie, can you please contact me off list?
Cheers 
Jo Bainbridge

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Uterine Rupture Risk

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



make 
sure this woman sees this- perhaps the 'expert' might benefit 
too
 

Increased 
success of trial of labor after previous vaginal birth after 
caesarean.
Obstet Gynecol. 2004 Oct;104(4):715-9
Gyamfi C, Juhasz G, Gyamfi P, Stone 
JL.
OBJECTIVE: To estimate whether a history of a previous successful 
vaginal birth after caesarean delivery (VBAC) has an effect on a subsequent VBAC 
attempt. METHODS: A chart review of cases identified from the International 
Classification of Diseases, 9th Revision (ICD-9) codes and cases identified in 
the logbooks on Labor and Delivery yielded 1,216 cases of attempted VBAC from 
1996 to 2000. Data gathered from these cases included history of previous 
successful VBAC. Variables of interest included previous successful normal 
spontaneous vaginal delivery, history of diabetes, labor induction, and 
recurrent indication for caesarean delivery. RESULTS: Of the 336 patients with a 
history of one or more previous successful VBAC attempts, 94.6% had a subsequent 
successful VBAC, whereas 70.5% of the remaining 880 patients were successful (P 
<.001). For those patients with one or more previous successful normal 
spontaneous vaginal deliveries, 87.8% had a successful VBAC, whereas 75.6% were 
successful without this history (P =.001). The presence of diabetes and a 
recurrent indication for caesarean delivery both decreased VBAC success and were 
independently associated with poor outcome (P <.001). Patients with a history 
of previous VBAC were 7 times more likely to have a subsequent VBAC success 
(odds ratio 7.40, 95% confidence interval 4.51-12.16; P <.001). Those with a 
history of previous normal spontaneous vaginal delivery were not more likely to 
have a successful VBAC when the other variables were controlled. Induction did 
not affect VBAC outcome. CONCLUSION: A history of a previous successful VBAC 
increases the likelihood for success with future attempts. Maternal diabetes and 
history of a recurrent indication for caesarean delivery are poor 
prognosticators for successful trial of labor. LEVEL OF EVIDENCE: 
II-2
 
Effect of prior vaginal delivery or prior 
vaginal birth after caesarean delivery on obstetric outcomes in women undergoing 
trial of labor.
Obstet Gynecol. 2004 Aug;104(2):273-7
Hendler I, Bujold E.
OBJECTIVE: We sought to study the effects of prior vaginal 
delivery or prior vaginal birth after cesarean delivery (VBAC) on the success of 
a trial of labor after a cesarean delivery. METHODS: An observational study of 
patients who underwent a trial of labor after a single low-transverse cesarean 
delivery. Patients with a previous cesarean delivery and no vaginal birth were 
compared with patients with a single vaginal delivery before or after the 
previous cesarean delivery. The rates of successful VBAC, uterine rupture, and 
scar dehiscence were analyzed. Multivariable regression was performed to adjust 
for confounding variables. RESULTS: Of 2,204 patients, 1,685 (76.4%) had a 
previous cesarean delivery and no vaginal delivery, 198 (9.0%) had a vaginal 
delivery before the cesarean delivery, and 321 (14.6%) had a prior VBAC. The 
rate of successful trial of labor was 70.1%, 81.8%, and 93.1%, respectively (P 
<.001). A prior VBAC was associated with fewer third- and fourth-degree 
lacerations (8.5% versus 2.5% versus 3.7%, P <.001) and fewer operative 
vaginal deliveries (14.7% versus 5.6% versus 1.9%, P <.001) but not with 
uterine rupture (1.5% versus 0.5% versus 0.3%, P =.12). Patients with a prior 
VBAC had, in addition, a higher rate of uterine scar dehiscence (21.8%) compared 
with patients with a previous cesarean delivery and no vaginal delivery (5.3%; P 
=.001). CONCLUSION: A prior vaginal delivery and, particularly, a prior VBAC are 
associated with a higher rate of successful trial of labor compared with 
patients with no prior vaginal delivery. In addition, prior VBAC is associated 
with an increased rate of uterine scar 
dehiscence.

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marie 
  HeathSent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 6:08 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Uterine 
  Rupture Risk
  
  I would just like to offer my 
  recent experience of having supported an amazing woman to achieve a beautiful 
  VBAC birth despite the demons of obstetrics and community 
  fear.
  This particular lady had an 
  amazing vaginal birth despite the information from a GP and Obstetrician. The 
  obstetric advice during pregnancy was that because she had had a fever during 
  her first labour and after lscs was treated with antibiotics, then her uterus 
  would not have healed so well and therefore she would have a 1 in 70 chance of 
  uterine rupture should she attempt to have a vaginal birth for her second 
  pregnancy.
  She chose, after much further 
  research to not see that obstetrician or any obstetrician again, continuing to 
  see me as a pri

RE: [ozmidwifery] PPH & C/S

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



In 
Effective Care there is some information about how active management can 
actually contribute to PPH.  2001 edition.  It could be something she 
would like to consider.  I think her biggest battles will lie in the VBA2C 
and big babies.  There have been two recent studies which support vbac in 
both instancesI will see if I can find them.
 
Jo

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
  BellyBellySent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 3:57 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] PPH & 
  C/S
  
  Hello 
  all,
   
  A woman on my forums has had two 
  normal births of big babies – 11lb3oz and 13lb5oz and had a PPH with both. Her 
  Ob is now recommending a c/s with her third 
  bub and wants a scan at 34 weeks as a deciding factor of this. She wants a 
  normal birth – is it okay just for her to say no without too much risk with 
  PPH?
  Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, 
  BellyBelly.com.au 
  Gentle 
  Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
  Support - 
  http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
   
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Attendant / Doula Directory

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



understand where you are coming from with all this Kelly.  I would 
like to talk about this further in a not so public forumone day! 
:o)
Jo  

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
  BellyBellySent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 4:52 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
  Attendant / Doula Directory
  
  I’m not going to be 
  an official body or register for it; it’s at your own risk. As I see it; I 
  speak to stacks of Doulas wanting to do more births but they do not know how 
  to go about it, and I get stacks of emails and calls from women wanting to 
  find Doulas and to find out what they do and what they offer. The current 
  registers are not accessible enough, do not get enough traffic on a daily 
  basis and are not advertised anywhere near enough for women in the mainstream 
  to find them. Unless you are in the MC or some other organization that isn’t 
  in the mainstream, you just don't know where to go to find one. If you google 
  ‘find a Doula’ in Australia, you don’t get registers 
  at all – you only get personal sites and links to forums where women are 
  asking about it. 
   
  So, I am merely 
  providing a list of contact details of women who are Doulas, like you will 
  find on places like the Bub Hub who have lists on everything from A-Z, only I 
  will be sure to ALSO include a disclaimer, that it’s for reference only and I 
  or my business in no way endorse any of them, and that reference checking etc 
  is their own responsibility etc. 
   
  I think, no I know, I 
  can offer far more exposure to Doulas and the profession through having this 
  list and the articles I have been writing and promoting – again there may be 
  lists out there but who’s actively promoting them and where can they be found? 
  The power of the internet and marketing on it is highly under-utilised. It has 
  taken me three years of work on BellyBelly for it to get as busy as it is 
  today, it’s now in a position where I can promote stuff like this and really 
  make an impact. So fingers crossed hey, maybe in a few years we’ll be 
  recognized as a profession in households – we are not doonas, donors but 
  DOULAS (or birth attendants like me). J
  
  Best 
  Regards,Kelly 
  ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions 
  From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly 
  Birth Support - 
  http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] 
  On Behalf Of Dean & 
  JoSent: Thursday, 30 March 2006 5:25 
  PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
  Attendant / Doula Directory
   
  
  Ho different would 
  your register be to the Australian Doula Register Kelly?  I think  
  it would be detrimental to have too many different registers as it will show 
  greater fractionalising of the profession.
  
   
  
  Jo 
  Bainbridge
  
-Original 
Message-From: 
owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] 
On Behalf Of pinky 
mckaySent: Wednesday, 
March 29, 2006 9:25 PMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
Attendant / Doula Directory

Kelly - how will you be 
protected re doulas standards/ training? Or will you use a 
disclaimer?

 

There is an Australian Doulas 
register at 

www.doulasaustralia.com
 
Pinky

  
  - Original Message - 
  
  
  From: Kelly @ 
  BellyBelly 
  
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  
  Sent: 
  Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:07 PM
  
  Subject: 
  [ozmidwifery] Birth Attendant / Doula 
  Directory
  
   
  Hey 
  everyone,
   
  On chatting to some fellow 
  Maternity Coalition members and due to getting so many emails asking where 
  to find doulas, I have decided to finally get up and running the Birth 
  Attendant / Doula Directory I have been meaning to do for the last 12 
  months! Please feel free to check it out - have your details added or 
  forward this onto others who might like to be added too. Hopefully we’ll 
  have a huge Australian resource where women can find someone to support 
  them anywhere in Australia as well as helping those attendants / doulas 
  out there wanting to do more births find them from the exposure on my site 
  – which is currently getting around 3,000 unique visitors a day and a 
  bazillion hits – not that hits count for much anyway. Pass it 
  on!!!
   
  http://bellybelly.com.au/birth-attendant-locator
  Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, 
  BellyBelly.com.au 
  Gentle Solutions 
  From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
  Support - 
  http://ww

RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Attendant / Doula Directory

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



Ho 
different would your register be to the Australian Doula Register Kelly?  I 
think  it would be detrimental to have too many different registers as it 
will show greater fractionalising of the profession.
 
Jo 
Bainbridge

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of pinky 
  mckaySent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:25 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
  Attendant / Doula Directory
  Kelly - how will you be protected re doulas 
  standards/ training? Or will you use a disclaimer?
   
  There is an Australian Doulas register at 
  
  
  www.doulasaustralia.com
   
  Pinky
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kelly @ 
BellyBelly 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:07 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth Attendant 
/ Doula Directory


Hey 
everyone,
 
On chatting to some fellow 
Maternity Coalition members and due to getting so many emails asking where 
to find doulas, I have decided to finally get up and running the Birth 
Attendant / Doula Directory I have been meaning to do for the last 12 
months! Please feel free to check it out - have your details added or 
forward this onto others who might like to be added too. Hopefully we’ll 
have a huge Australian resource where women can find someone to support them 
anywhere in Australia as well as helping those attendants / doulas out there 
wanting to do more births find them from the exposure on my site – which is 
currently getting around 3,000 unique visitors a day and a bazillion hits – 
not that hits count for much anyway. Pass it 
on!!!
 
http://bellybelly.com.au/birth-attendant-locator
Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, 
BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions 
From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
Support - 
http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
 
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[ozmidwifery] Getting off list

[Dean & Jo]

I have tried a few times to get off this list with no success.  Followed
the right path etc but still here!
Any suggestions?

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RE: [ozmidwifery] trials

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



the 
sad thing is that she works at a teaching hospital where they have only one 
thing they are familiar with -managed birth...so they are perpetuating the 
status quo.  it is sad Mary.

  


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[ozmidwifery] Pelvic floor

[Dean & Jo]

Mode of Delivery and Pelvic Floor Dysfunction: a Systematic Review of
the Literature on Urinary and Fecal Incontinence and Sexual Dysfunction
by Mode of Delivery CME/CE
Authors: Joshua Press, MD; Michael C. Klein, MD, CFPC, FCFP, FAAP
(Neonatal-Perinatal), FCPS, ABFP; Peter von Dadelszen, DPhil, FRCSC,
FRCOG 
Disclosures

Release Date: January 17, 2006; Valid for credit through January 17,
2007

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RE: [ozmidwifery] trials

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



vaginal birth not achieved in 24 hours 

misoprostol 46.0%
v 
dinoprostone 41.2%
 
okay so if 
46% did not birth vaginally and 22.7% had cs what happened to the 
other  23.3% that didn't birth vaginally
 
Also, are 
women going to be told that they have almost a 50% chance of needing a cs 
with an induction?   That inductions fail almost 
half the timegee I know, lets do what the prominent OB from 
Adelaide is suggesting and induce all women at 39 weeks and almost double 
our cs rate!  
 
caesarean section 
22.7%
v 
26.6%
 
and we 
wonder why we have a national cs rate of over 25%!!!
 
 caesarean section for fetal distress 

8.8%
 v 
9.3% 
 
uterine hyper stimulation with changes in fetal 
heart rate 
0.8% 
v 
1.6% 
and yet the 
risk of rupture being an estimated 0.3% is too high to offer vbac as an 
optionlets give these women a drug that can hyper stimulate their uteri and 
increase the chance of serious morbidity or mortality and potentially leave them 
with a ruptured uterus despite not having a previous scar.
 
*sigh* I 
seriously wonder sometimes how these academics get funded! Oh sorry, this was a 
drug company who will benefit from this study...not women.
 
I have a 
suggestion: why doesn't someone get funding to do a trial into spontaneous 
non-interventative (minus the actual medical need)birth vs. active 
management and compare the outcomes?  Lets actually see if natural 
noninvasive supported and educated birth is fraught with the dangers that we get 
thrown at us.  grr grr grr
Jo
 

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary 
MurphySent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 7:08 PMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] 
trials

  
  At least they 
  asked the women’s preference. Guess what they chose?  MM
  Oral 
  misoprostol for induction of labour at term: randomised controlled 
  trial - BMJ , vol 
  332, no 7540, 4 March 2006, pp 509-511 Dodd JM; Crowther CA; Robinson 
  JS - (2006) OBJECTIVE: To 
  compare oral misoprostol solution with vaginal prostaglandin gel 
  (dinoprostone) for induction of labour at term to determine whether 
  misoprostol is superior. DESIGN: Randomized double blind placebo controlled 
  trial. SETTING: Maternity departments in three hospitals in 
  Australia.Population Pregnant women with a singleton cephalic presentation at 
  >/=36+6 weeks' gestation, with an indication for prostaglandin induction of 
  labour. INTERVENTIONS: 20 microg oral misoprostol solution at two hourly 
  intervals and placebo vaginal gel or vaginal dinoprostone gel at six hourly 
  intervals and placebo oral solution. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Vaginal birth 
  within 24 hours; uterine hyperstimulation with associated changes in fetal 
  heart rate; caesarean section (all); and caesarean section for fetal distress. 
  RESULTS: 741 women were randomised, 365 to the misoprostol group and 376 to 
  the vaginal dinoprostone group. There were no significant differences between 
  the two treatment groups in the primary outcomes: vaginal birth not achieved 
  in 24 hours (misoprostol 168/365 (46.0%) v dinoprostone 155/376 (41.2%); 
  relative risk 1.12, 95% confidence interval 0.95 to 1.32; P=0.134), caesarean 
  section (83/365 (22.7%) v 100/376 (26.6%); 0.82, 0.64 to 1.06; P=0.127), 
  caesarean section for fetal distress (32/365 (8.8%) v 35/376 (9.3%); 0.91, 
  0.57 to 1.44; P=0.679), or uterine hyperstimulation with changes in fetal 
  heart rate (3/365 (0.8%) v 6/376 (1.6%); 0.55, 0.14 to 2.21; P=0.401). 
  Although there were differences in the process of labour induction, there were 
  no significant differences in adverse maternal or neonatal outcomes. 
  CONCLUSIONS: This trial shows no evidence that oral misoprostol is superior to 
  vaginal dinoprostone for induction of labour. However, it does not lead to 
  poorer health outcomes for women or their infants, and oral treatment is preferred by women. 
  Trial registration National Health and Medical Research Council, Perinatal 
  Trials, PT0361. (11 references) (Author)
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RE: [ozmidwifery] pelvic floor information

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



There 
was research done in SA Adelaide a few years back also into this: Macalister I 
think his name was?

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kylie 
  CarberrySent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:04 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] pelvic 
  floor information
  
  Ahh, yes! I remember you were the one who told me about this research 
  regarding the nuns!  It would be perfect to use that.  I know I can 
  only touch on this - the main focus is on the best way to get a strong pelvic 
  floor - but I have to include some stuff about it.  
  Kylie Carberry Freelance 
  Journalist p: +61 2 42970115 m: +61 2 418220638 f: +61 2 
  42970747
  

From: Justine Caines <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: OzMid List 
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
pelvic floor informationDate: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 20:17:23 
+1100
Someone here 
will probably know KylieBut the best research of disproving that 
type of birth (except forceps damage) impacts on continenceWas done 
using Nuns (yes Nuns).  It revealed that the nuns experienced the same 
rates of incontinence despite having no children!!!There is a book 
called “Water Works” by someone Chiarella (who is a bit of a continence 
expert) it may have the nuns and other appropriate references in it. 
 The UK NICE (Nat Institute of Clinical Excellence) Guidleines on C/S 
have a bit on C?S not protecting pelvic floor etc.  See 
www.nice.orgAnyone have the Nuns 
reference??JCXx -- 
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[ozmidwifery] Delayed posts

[Dean & Jo]

Could someone who moderates this list explain why some posts are so
delayed in getting released and some never appear?  
Cheers
Jo

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Post cs support

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



that 
study was really missing the point> it used a midwife to debrief instead of 
the people who were involved with the actual event.  It left the chance for 
further confusion and distress wide open.  I would have been happier if the 
person who made the decision to perform the incision to at least have the 
courtesy to come and talk to me and invite me to ask questions.  Instead I 
had to rely on someone who wasn't even there to explain what was written on my 
file..rather than what happened in the labour room.  The study found 
debriefing did nothing to help: perhaps because the rationales were not 
acceptable and hence the grief/anger was impacted further?  Perhaps because 
birthing women are not stupid and know that unless you were there you really 
have no way of really knowing...?

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary 
  MurphySent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:45 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Post cs 
  support
  
   
  I also was surprised 
  at the outcomes of the study. One of the great benefits of being a community 
  midwife is the opportunity for women to debrief over a period of time.  
  Usually from day 2-28, a little at a time.  Even with a “normal” 
  seemingly non-traumatic birth, women need to talk it through.MM 
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Nicole CarverSent: Saturday, 4 February 2006 3:42 
  PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Post cs 
  support
   
  
  HI 
  Mary,
  
  I remember reading 
  about that research and being surprised. I have discussed it with the psych 
  nurse employed where I work, who spends time nearly every day with women who 
  have experienced traumatic births (or perceived them to be even when we might 
  not have called them such). She feels it does help. Even one visit can help 
  women who want to understand what happened to them and why. Some require much 
  more, and thankfully our maternity support workers are great with these women. 
  However, it is a tragedy that we need to have these workers. They do also work 
  with antenatal and postnatal depression.
  
  I can't remember the 
  specifics, but I don't recall being particularly impressed with the 
  methodology of the study that you mention. And if women want to talk about 
  their experience they should be able to, whether it is formal debriefing or 
  whatever. I suppose you don't want to treat all women the same, ie what is 
  appropriate debriefing for one woman, would not necessarily work for another. 
  If you did try to treat them the same it would not be surprising if it did not 
  work.
  
  Nicole 
  Carver.
  
-Original 
Message-

 
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[ozmidwifery] Post cs support

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



Interestingly last year our South Australian Gov held 
an inquiry into post natal depression and direct links to birth- cs 
specifically.  I sat there and listened to a private OB who said "none of 
my patients are unhappy with their cs".
 
how 
would he know?  when does he ask?  who does he think he 
is?
 
yes 
Andrea, the problem is a difficult one to address but I think there are 
definatley ways to start.  Inclusion of PTSD during antenatal classes and a 
handout describing the difference between PND and PTSD; a list of possible 
contacts of support from outside the hospital and perhaps maybe one within. Find 
out if someone can be appointed a specific consumer relations counselor with 
expertise in PTSD and birth at the unit who acts as the consumers advocate or 
point of call, actively encourage any birthing woman (but especially those who 
have had difficult or emergency births) to contact this person to at least 
register their concerns regardless to when it happened.  This person could 
also be used to document the cases and make links to particular behaviours or 
procedures that cause harm and even individuals who are repeat offenders in 
offending - then they could be encouraged or even enforced to get educated or 
get out.
 
Units 
need to actively support the consumer groups in their area.  Advertise the 
details of consumer groups and LISTEN to the group's findings and 
feedback- good, bad and ugly.  
 
Educate women about the realities of birth in our 
current system. This is a hard one as it would be easy to tell them that this is 
the way it can be but it doesn't need to be or worse, tell them this is the way 
it can be so accept it.  educating women about birth as a positive thing is 
an ongoing challenge but attention to wording, and reiterating the rights of 
women to say NO or in the very least be ASKED not TOLD.  If a midwife 
witnesses an event that has clearly disempowered the woman, if that mw has not 
the strength to stand up for the woman, to at least pull her aside after and 
tell her that should not have happened and would she like to make a 
complaint.  I would hope that this scenario would be avoided however by not 
letting it happen.
 
Perhaps a list of standard things that happen during 
each visits (breast checks etc) is given to the woman and unless she ticks 
the 'yes' box the procedure can not go ahead. Information or rationale can 
be given for all procedures so the woman is informed as to the reasoning for 
it.   INFORMED CONSENT.  If she ticks 'no' and it happens then 
her rights have been abused and consequences must occur.
 
Agreed 
that going back to where the trauma was committed is not what most people 
do...as many have said before, no one goes back to their rapist and asks why 
they did it or gives them an opportunity to defend the attack.  

 
MOST 
WOMEN WHO SUFFER TRAUMA UNDERSTAND THAT THEY CAN NOT GO BACK IN TIME AND CHANGE 
THINGS- BUT IF THEY CAN DO SOMETHING TO PREVENT IT HAPPENING TO SOMEONE ELSE 
THEY WILL.   Most women who are hurt emotionally and physically do not 
want to sue: they want an APOLOGY an acknowledgement that they have been 
wronged.  Most have the strength to go back if they knew they were going to 
be taken seriously and not dismissed off handedly for not "getting your fantasy 
birth" like I was told by the Bendigo Hospital CEO a few years back (sorry but 
these days I name names.  It is the only right I have 
left.)
 
Do not 
fob off people like Janet and myself, we are the type of people who are angry, 
hurt and vocal yes-but we are the ones who units can learn from.  the only 
way to improve things it to ask the ones who are not happy.  The majority 
of unhappy people don't know what to say or who to say it to.  Use people 
like Janet and myself as very open in tracks into just how stuffed this sort of 
thing can leave women (sorry Janet, but you know what I mean!:o)).  We are 
the type of people who should be invited to come back and talk to the 
staff.  we are classified as extreme minority...only by those who chose to 
see us as that.  If you ask us, we will tell you that we are NOT a minority 
in any way shape or form.
 
Like 
Janet, I have a number of things that we can do to support women suffering 
this.  Nothing is impossible.  It all comes down to someone actually 
recognizing there is a problem and then be willing to do something about 
it.
 
once 
again, I mean no disrespect for anyone on this list.  I only ever want 
people to think from a  different view point for a few 
seconds.
 
with 
light and love
 
Jo
 
 

  


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RE: [ozmidwifery] nice story....

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



yeah, 
my first thoughts were the same!

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  jesse/jayneSent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:56 
  AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] nice story
  How about the dad in Melbourne yesterday morning 
  that delivered his baby in the back of the car?!   My kids were 
  listening to the news on the radio and my youngest said "WOW!!  A MAN HAD 
  A BABY!"
   
  Jayne
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Janet 
Fraser 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 11:31 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] nice 
story

I'm glad there was someone 
to "deliver" her baby. Sigh. Don't women give birth?
Cute otherwise ; 
)
J

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Steve 
  & Janine Clark 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:21 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] nice 
  story
  
  
  Farm birth nothing to kid 
  aboutCarla Danaher03feb06MANY four-legged kids have been born at 
  Collingwood Children's Farm, but never a two-legged one . . . until 
  now.Brunswick woman Nicole Allard gave birth to Saskia under a peppercorn tree at the farm on Sunday 
  afternoon. 
  A 
  baby goat born at the farm later that day has been named Saskia in her honour. 
  
  Nicole and her partner Julian Elliott, both 
  doctors, were on a family outing with their two children when the 
  36-year-old went into labour. 
  They 
  had been aid workers in Cambodia for the past three years. 
  
  The 
  pair only returned home to Melbourne so they could have their baby in a 
  local hospital, not knowing she would be born at a farm instead. 
  
  But, 
  after trying to walk to her car, Nicole knew she wasn't going to make it 
  to the hospital in time. 
  After 
  farm staff fetched towels and cordoned off the area, Julian delivered his 
  daughter under a peppercorn tree, with their children watching on. 
  
  "It 
  was beautiful to have a child outside," Nicole said. 
  
  "The 
  thing I'm most relieved about is that I delivered there and not one of the 
  other places I was last week, like 
  Federation 
  Square." 
  Mother and baby are doing well, with Saskia a healthy 3.5kg. 
  Collingwood Children's Farm assistant manager 
  Frank Palomares said the happy event came as 
  quite a shock to staff. 
  "Our 
  farmers are trained to deliver animals, but not humans," he said. 
  
   
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Post cs support

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



I 
think it is ESSENTIAL for midwives and consumer groups to be working together on 
this one.  Amazingly enough, many complaints we hear about are from women 
who feel their midwife let them down.  Interesting issue (as I am a doula 
also, perception and expectation of support is of great interest).  

 
Most 
would agree with the fragmented care currently offered there is a huge reliance 
on trusting someone who has just walked in the door.  anyone caring for a 
woman tries to do their best; but their best may not correspond with the woman's 
needs, even the 'nicest' midwife can upset someone unintentionally.  where 
does the accountability lie?  bit tricky there...probably too hard to 
define: but it doesn't remove the fact that some woman is feeling like 
shit.
 
I 
think it is important for midwives and doctors (if they would ever listen) to 
listen to the trauma experienced by women.  From experience I can say that 
MY perception of a particular birth was it was positive: but to the woman is was 
shit.  Care providers need to base their post birth care on not what 
defines positive to them, but what defines positive to each individual 
womanso easy in this system! NOT.
 
I wish 
that one particular person who posted on Janet's Accessing Artimise list would 
give me permission to paste some of her recent post about the grief she felt 
postnatally.over a year later.  To exploit her pain would be adding to 
her grief: but her words are so powerful, it is heart breaking.  

Trauma 
after birth effects so many and there seems to be little being done to minimize 
it. Bugger all being done to acknowledge it.  passing the sense of 
responsibility on to others seems to be the way.
 
The 
'head in the sand', 'too hard basket', 'total denial', 'my hands are tied' 
mentality has to stop soon before birth trauma claims more than a woman's 
soul.  
 
I am 
deeply concerned about the lack of information provided by participants of this 
list (a deep source of supportive woman focused care providers) o the topic of 
post cs support.  From a consumers perspective: if people like yourselves 
cant offer up strategies to minimize trauma after cs, then what are we to 
do?  It doesn't bode well.
 
no 
disrespect intended.  I value and hold all active members of this list - 
however as a consumer it is my right and my role to point out weakness.  
birth trauma is a huge weakness that needs to be dealt with.  The 
ideals of one on one midwifery should not be seen as the solution to current 
trauma.  yes it will hopefully reduce the trauma of future women, but for 
those who birth today...there is stuff all except isolationnot what they 
need.
 
I was 
hoping to hear multitudes of posts sharing the methods of supporting and 
educating women about cs birth:  information on post cs care: methods of 
debriefing that does more than shift blame: words of wisdom about how we as a 
society are caring for our future.
 
*sigh*  
 
love 
Jo

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet 
  FraserSent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:58 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Post cs 
  support
  Speaking as someone who 
  helps pick up the pieces after these scenarios, this is what I offer as a 
  starting point:
  http://www.joyousbirth.info/articles/dealingtraumaticbirth.html
  As well as a pamphlet on 
  PTSD symptoms, and one for partners on how to support a traumatised 
  woman.
   
  The various groups I run 
  offer peer support and accurate birthing information. We encourage women to 
  seek their birth records and go through them with a disinterested party, to 
  look at the reasons why they made choices which put them in more vulnerable 
  positions, and provide resouces with how to make more nurturing choices next 
  time - provided it's not an emergency hysterectomy as that's a whole other 
  kettle of fish. We offer contacts for groups and counselling in each state, 
  where they exist.
  : )
  J
  I'll be interested to see 
  what those closer to the coalface are offering to consumers as well. It would 
  be neat to work in concert!
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of "active labour management"

[Dean & Jo]

I read somewhere that the fact that women's health have improved so much
also that the placenta is lasting longer hence the gestational period is
longer alsocant seem to find where I read it though?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea
Quanchi
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 11:36 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of "active labour
management"


If anyone has been to captain cooks cottage in Melbourne which was  
his childhood home that was transported from england you will note  
that the ceilings and doors are very low. The average height of men  
then was less than 5 feet. As a species humans are getting taller  
with each generation. We accept that animals gestation period gets  
longer as the animals get larger so why do we expect that humans  
gestation period is stagnant. Naegele was right in 1838 for women in  
1838 but is not relevent for women in 2006 who are on average a foot  
taller than
Andrea Q
On 02/02/2006, at 1:16 AM, Vedrana Valčić wrote:

> And this one:
> The current due-date predictor -- Naegele's Rule -- was devised in
> 1838 by Franz Carl Naegele and has been used by obstetricians  
> around the world for more than 150 years. Naegele's Rule is based  
> on the belief that human gestation is 10 lunar cycles (nine months  
> plus seven days), not on empirical data.
>
> http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/961107/pregnancy.shtml
>
> Vedrana
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Vedrana Valčić
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:13 PM
> To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au'
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of "active labour
> management"
>
> My favourite is this one:
>
> The length of uncomplicated human gestation.
>
> Mittendorf R, Williams MA, Berkey CS, Cotter PF.
>
> Department of Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public Health,
> Boston, Massachusetts.
>
> By retrospective exclusion of gestations with known obstetric
> complications, maternal diseases, or unreliable menstrual  
> histories, we found that uncomplicated, spontaneous-labor pregnancy  
> in private-care white mothers is longer than Naegele's rule  
> predicts. For primiparas, the median duration of gestation from  
> assumed ovulation to delivery was 274 days, significantly longer  
> than the predicted 266 days (P = .0003). For multiparas, the median  
> duration of pregnancy was 269 days, also significantly longer than  
> the prediction (P = .019). Moreover, the median length of pregnancy  
> in primiparas proved to be significantly longer than that for  
> multiparas (P = .0032). Thus, this study suggests that when  
> estimating a due date for private-care white patients, one should  
> count back 3 months from the first day of the last menses, then add  
> 15 days for primiparas or 10 days for multiparas, instead of using  
> the common algorithm for Naegele's rule.
>
> Vedrana
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wump fish
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 12:55 PM
> To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of "active labour  
> management"
>
> Perhaps we need to get away from due dates altogether. Instead of
> giving
> women an edd, maybe saying that if your baby has not arrived by x  
> date we
> can discuss various options. I agree, that when we give women a  
> particular
> date they fix on it. As do their family and friends = lots of  
> pressure as
> the date comes and goes. Doesn't matter how much we tell them the  
> 38-42wk
> thing - they are aiming for that 40wk due date.
>
>
>> From: "Janet Fraser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
>> To: 
>> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of "active labour  
>> management"
>> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:03:16 +1100
>>
>> It really does and the overwhelming focus on the 40 week mark  
>> means that
>> women are freaking out by 40+3 convinced they'll never go into  
>> labour and
>> really upset and angry. There's no point saying "term is 38-42,  
>> you're
>> quite ok" because they have the fear of god in them about the  
>> mythical
>> 40+10 which means induction.
>> Bloody terrible! It was so different planning a home birth and just
>> floating about high on endorphins knowing no one was going to  
>> hassle me.
>> Too many women, ie the majority, really miss out on this.
>> We need that ridiculous compulsory induction before 42 weeks to  
>> jus

RE: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of "active labour management"

[Dean & Jo]

The issue faced by women when they go post dates has a huge impact on
things.  I wonder if women were to celebrate and cherish the last few
days of being pregnant instead of feeling 'fed up' - if women did not
hear from anyone (and usually everyone) the comment of "are you still
here love?" or the best one:" You still here, my gawd you are huge!"  If
women were told they look beautiful, if women were given social
'approval' to be pampered; to internalize; to value the last few days
then perhaps more women would go into labour without that desperate fed
up notion that makes induction more appealing.  

The last few weeks of a pregnancy I think are the most challenging for
many women.  We as a society need to allow them and encourage them to
value the last few days of holding their child close.  Birth blessings,
women circles (where a group of females get together and celebrate the
birthing women or even do something helpful like a cooking afternoon
with meals for the freezer, or  housework bee to do all those jobs that
bother expectant mums); massages; pedicures; hair appointments WHATEVER!
Anything that says to the woman 'take your time, feel comfortable within
yourself think positive and baby will come.'

*sigh*  but instead women are fed phrases that enforce they should be
doing something to get baby out.

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RE: [ozmidwifery] co sleeping with a 7 yo

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



Pinky 
said:
Not sure how 
to interpret this in light of my own kids experience now they are college age 
and beyond - that would be too much information!  But it seems that they 
are most likely sleeping with somebody other than 
me!
 
Ha Ha Ha! you do make me laugh 
Pinky!!! :o) 
cheers
Jo

  
   


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[ozmidwifery] Post cs support

[Dean & Jo]

Can I just throw in the question: what strategies do you as a care
provider offer those women who birth by cs, especially those who wanted
a natural birth or having their first baby, in order to minimize the
chances of an adverse emotional outcome?  Is there any 'thing' in
particular that you have devised or your institution implements that may
reduce women feeling emotions that may carry into the next few months or
manifest into PND or worse PTSS?  How much of your continuing training
has addressed emotional effects of birth for women?  Does your unit,
including the obstetric staff, address this issue as a legitimate one?
Is there an understanding that there are some women who are more likely
to suffer from the birth experience over others...differentiating
between those who may have been screened during pregnancy for increased
PND risks.

And finally, what information do you give women who have birthed by cs
when going home?

Cheers
Jo


 

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RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR?

[Dean & Jo]

I don’t think anyone took anything you said as inflammatory Brenda.
What you have stated is true and fair.

I think that the issue of suing has more to do with our societies
inability to deal with grief productively perhaps?  There is always a
need to 'blame' and it is far easier to be angry at someone else rather
than yourself. An open and honest relationship is what is needed hence
the 10 minute appointments and the different care provider each time is
simply not a sufficient system...for SO many reasons.

Love Jo

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RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR?

[Dean & Jo]

Yes totally agree with the right of refusal also must encompass the need
to take accountability. I think the situation that is currently being
discussed would be one of very personal nature.  It is hard to advocate
the right to choice for some as they may or may not be willing to
acknowledge the negative potential outcomes.  If they do then great, but
if they want to ignore the bad what it's then it is an issue.

There is vbac and then there is vbac with increased risks.  In the
situation of previous rupture and the chance to labour/birth again was
so important to the woman it would be one of those situations that the
more precautionary interventions would be more justifiable. 

My first point that I made was really to remind people to continue
questioning and addressing the 'norms' and evaluate them all the time. I
live in fear of fiction becoming fact which is so prevalent in
obstetrics breech= cs "because the term breech trial said so"  

For the record, I would not try a vbac after a rupture personally.

Love Jo 

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[ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR?

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



not 
trying to be controversial (honest!) just wanting to think outside norm...how 
many times have I heard the story of an ob saying to a woman when giving her the 
repeat cs (for a 'failed vbac attempt not linked to a rupture) "oh the scar was 
so thin it could have ripped open at any second...lucky I saved you from 
it".  (well I am TRYING not sound too facetious) 
 
I 
suppose like anything we must look at rationale for the first event.  IF a 
rupture did occur you could conclude that the repair to the uterus would be 
quite extensive IF she managed to not lose the uterus- hence the risks for 
future rupture would increase.  But a dehiscence has not been proven to be 
a serious concern according to the investigation I have done in the last almost 
9 years.  There is speculation that a scar  can slightly part 
with no harmful effects.
 
Just 
asking questionsdon't they just HATE informed consumers! 
;o)
love 
Jo

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet 
  FraserSent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: *SUSPECTED SPAM* Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR?
  You made all my points, Jo. 
  
  : )
  J
  
- Original Message ----- 
From: 
Dean 
& Jo 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 
PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after 
dehsicence or UR?

I 
would have to look for the research (we all know how 'fair' research can 
be!) but the stated contra-indicators for vbac is previous rupture.  
Now it doesn't actually state if the chances of another rupture are higher 
than a normal scar or whether it is a case of "dam! Not going 
to let that happen again!" attitude.  You could argue I 
suppose that even a dehiscence that required repair would be considered the 
same as a repeat cs??  Perhaps no vbac after one rupture/dehiscence 
would be based on fear and/or presumption.  Similar to the situation 
where a woman loses a baby during labour there is the assumption that she 
will want a cs next time.???
 
jo

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet 
  FraserSent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:37 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after 
  dehsicence or UR?
  Hi all,
  does anyone know of 
  research on VB after UR? I was asked this:
   
  So if you've had a scar come apart to 
  the point where the baby was on its way out via the DIY sunroof, and the 
  ob says he would have had to cut me open to stitch it up even if I had 
  pushed the baby out, would that make VBA2C too risky?
   
  Thanks in 
  advance,
  J
   
  Joyous Birth Home 
  Birth Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/
   
  Attending births is like 
  growing roses. You have to marvel at the ones that just open up and bloom 
  at the first kiss of the sun but you wouldn't dream of pulling open the 
  petals of the tightly closed buds and forcing them to blossom to your time 
  line. 
   
  ~Gloria 
  Lemay~
   
   
   
   
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  Release Date: 1/20/2006
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RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after dehsicence or UR?

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



I 
would have to look for the research (we all know how 'fair' research can be!) 
but the stated contra-indicators for vbac is previous rupture.  Now it 
doesn't actually state if the chances of another rupture are higher than a 
normal scar or whether it is a case of "dam! Not going to let 
that happen again!" attitude.  You could argue I suppose that even a 
dehiscence that required repair would be considered the same as a repeat 
cs??  Perhaps no vbac after one rupture/dehiscence would be based on 
fear and/or presumption.  Similar to the situation where a woman loses a 
baby during labour there is the assumption that she will want a cs next 
time.???
 
jo

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet 
  FraserSent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:37 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after 
  dehsicence or UR?
  Hi all,
  does anyone know of research 
  on VB after UR? I was asked this:
   
  So if you've had a scar come apart to the 
  point where the baby was on its way out via the DIY sunroof, and the ob says 
  he would have had to cut me open to stitch it up even if I had pushed the baby 
  out, would that make VBA2C too risky?
   
  Thanks in 
  advance,
  J
   
  Joyous Birth Home Birth 
  Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/
   
  Attending births is like 
  growing roses. You have to marvel at the ones that just open up and bloom at 
  the first kiss of the sun but you wouldn't dream of pulling open the petals of 
  the tightly closed buds and forcing them to blossom to your time line. 
  
   
  ~Gloria Lemay~
   
   
   
   
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RE: [ozmidwifery] birthing in private hosp question

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



You 
should have said to her that $3,000 would have paid for a gorgeous suite for a 
few days at a 5 star hotel! 
I have 
heard women doing that: hire a midwife and birth in a 5 star hotelwhy not? 
The meals would be better than any private hospital any day!  And what is 
with hospitals and the pathetic excuses for bed linen...over sized thin towels 
more than blankets!  Nothing would better my wool doona and scrunchy pillow 
though!!!
 
*sigh* 
the private OB benefitsas tangible as mist.  I have a dear friend who 
had a private OB for her first -because she had paid the insurance cover so why 
not use it- and then opted for a home birth with her secondnow she tells all 
her friends to skip the OB bit and go straight for the homebirth!!! :o) (trained 
her well!)
 
Jo

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  jesse/jayneSent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:37 
  PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: 
  [ozmidwifery] birthing in private hosp question
  I have renewed hope in our maternity 
  system!  My friend -  41yo, 1st time mum 29 weeks into pregnancy 
  seeing private ob and planing on birthing in private hosp (you know, she only 
  wanted the BEST) - said to me today "if I get the chance to have a 2nd 
  child I will by pass the ob and only use a midwife.  The ob has done 
  NOTHING!  He has barely felt my stomach yet a girl from work is seeing a 
  midwife and she is learning so much from the midwife about her 
  pregnancy.  I look forward more to hearing about her midwife visits than 
  I do my ob visits.
   
  So I casually suggested that it wasn't too late 
  to 'sack' the ob and go with a midwife!  She said she would if she hadn't 
  of already paid the ob the $3,000 out of pocket expense  I'm not sure 
  if she had to pay up front or if she was just being financially organised as 
  she is prone to do.  I sarcastically told her that chances were he 
  would do something at the birth to justify his fee :(
   
  My friend still likes the idea of birthing in the 
  private hosp because if she has a 'natural' birth she is moved to a swish 5 
  star motel for days 3 to 5 pp funded by her health fund.  She wants to 
  know if you have to have an ob when birthing in a private hosp?
   
  Regards
   
  Jayne
   
   
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RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: OP

[Dean & Jo]

Thanks Nancy, 
Having had 2 stubborn OP babies myself I lived and breathed the Optimal
Fetal Positioning for the second child.  Interestingly I didn’t get so
hung up on it the third time and that was the only babe who was OA.
Must say that there is a danger sometimes in being too obsessed with
doing the 'right' thing.

What I am interested in though, is rationale for stubborn OP babies and
the premature pushing urge.  How does a woman who has laboured in a bath
upright during all her labour overcome this problem?  I have had an
experience where one woman whose baby was LOA during the last weeks of
pregnancy, turned OP during an active upright drug free labour and then
after 22 hours turned only to have the fetal heart rate plummet
resulting in CS.  During the last 4 hours the urge to push was
overwhelming and she was 6cm...lots of swelling and molding of baby
head.  Would this be why it took so long to turn?  How do you avoid
this?  Is this common or is it indicative to a type of pelvis??

Need to dig deeper than just optimizing positions.  I know babies can
and do birth fully OP but the links with premature pushing urge is of
interest to me.

Thanks 
Jo 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nancy San
Martin
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:56 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] RE: OP


Hi Jo,
Have you read any of Jean Sutton's work? She wrote a book called
"Optimal Fetal Positioning" in which she describes all about OP causes
and prevention. She also designed a Pregnancy Rocker to aid in the
prevention of OP from 34 weeks onward. 
Any more info about the Pregnancy rocker ...email me at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, Nancy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean & Jo
Sent: Monday, 16 January 2006 3:39 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] References required

Could someone point me in the direction on further information about
stubborn OP presentations and the links with premature pushing urges?
Much appreciated Jo

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RE: [ozmidwifery] adverse effects C/s

[Dean & Jo]

Not overtly helpful Maureen, but yes there has been at least one published
study linking asthma and elective cs….just cant think of the
details…sorry!Jo

>  -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [HYPERLINK
> "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> raphics.com.au] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:32 PM
> To:   ozmidwifery
> Subject:  [ozmidwifery] adverse effects C/s
> 
> Any info on elective c/s causing asthma in the children?   We hear a lot
> about problems for the mother, but little about long term effects on the
> baby
> 
> Ken & Maureen Ward
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
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<>

[ozmidwifery] References required

[Dean & Jo]

Could someone point me in the direction on further information about
stubborn OP presentations and the links with premature pushing urges?
Much appreciated
Jo

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting article about rogue expert witnesses

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message




Another prominent obstetrician, David Molloy, said there was "a very 
difficult group of known rogue expert witnesses" who could not currently be 
dealt with any other way than to discredit their views in court. 
"There's a very substantial amount of money being made by a small group of 
doctors, when, in many cases, it's been a decade since they laid hands on a 
patient," he said. 
 
Hmm... I 
would be worried about his expert opinion also considering it has probably been 
years since he last witnessed a vaginal birth!  
Sorry, 
slanderous comments should be kept to the coffee table...cuppa 
anyone?
 
Jo

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Helen and 
  GrahamSent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:05 AMTo: 
  ozmidwiferySubject: [ozmidwifery] Interesting article about rogue 
  expert witnesses
  http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17776253%255E601,00.html
   
  Sin bin for rogue 
  witnessesAdam Cresswell, Health 
  editorJanuary 10, 2006 
  
  A SPORT-STYLE system of red and yellow cards is being 
  considered to deal with rogue expert witnesses whose eccentric or irrational 
  views are skewing medical negligence cases.Retired medical experts can earn tens of thousands of dollars 
  each time they testify about whether other doctors' treatments were negligent. 

  Their role has been mired in renewed controversy after an Australian study 
  suggested last week that some obstetricians were being unfairly blamed for 
  cases of cerebral palsy - a condition behind 60 per cent ofnegligence payouts 
  in obstetric cases. 
  The research found that some cases of cerebral palsy could be caused by a 
  virus shortly before or after birth. Traditionally, oxygen starvation during 
  birth was thought to be the main culprit. 
  Alastair MacLennan, leader of the South Australian Cerebral Palsy Research 
  Group, which published the findings in the British Medical Journal, blamed the 
  courts' willingness to find doctors at fault for cerebral palsy partly on 
  "hired-gun expert witnesses" prepared to make groundless claims that the 
  injury could have been avoided. 
  He has proposed the red-card scheme as a way to bring errant experts to 
  heel. 
  Under the plan, the Royal Australian and New Zealand College of 
  Obstetricians and Gynaecologists would audit and train expert witnesses, and 
  monitor their opinions for statements deemed impractical, dangerous or 
  extreme. 
  Those giving evidence without being registered, or giving opinions not 
  backed by the college, would receive a warning, and a steeper penalty such as 
  loss of college membership on a repeat offence. 
  "Several of the American colleges have this red card, yellow card system, 
  and anecdotally I am told this is reining in some of the more rogue expert 
  witnesses," Professor MacLennan said. 
  "In Australia at the moment, they can say what the hell they like, which is 
  a real worry. It's fairly easy to fool a judge who's never judged a cerebral 
  palsy case before." 
  The chairman of the RANZCOG's medico-legal committee, Robert Lyneham, said 
  the college was considering the plan, and was developing its own proposals to 
  allow obstetricians to register as expert witnesses and receive training. 
  Professor MacLennan said fewer than 1 per cent of cerebral palsy cases were 
  caused during birth. 
  Two international expert panels had agreed that proving the cause was a 
  sudden deprivation of oxygen during labour - something that could be blamed on 
  an obstetrician - would require nine specific pieces of evidence, but rogue 
  experts ignored these, he said. 
  "There's no policing of medico-legal opinion - people in their retirement 
  can sit and give outrageous opinions without peer review, and do," he said. 
  "They're often quite out of touch, and in particular in cerebral palsy they 
  almost never mention the modern literature. 
  "What we're looking for is nine pieces of objective evidence, not somebody 
  saying, 'Oh, this baby was crook at delivery, it must be due to a bad delivery 
  and in my opinion it would not have had cerebral palsy half an hour 
  beforehand'." 
  Another prominent obstetrician, David Molloy, said there was "a very 
  difficult group of known rogue expert witnesses" who could not currently be 
  dealt with any other way than to discredit their views in court. 
  "There's a very substantial amount of money being made by a small group of 
  doctors, when, in many cases, it's been a decade since they laid hands on a 
  patient," he said. 
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RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: [cbistudents] Fw: [birthisrael] "natural" c/s

[Dean & Jo]

Ah Nick Fisk, the man who was quoted that natural birth was like riding
a motorcycle without a helmet and saying that all women will birth by cs
in the future...at least he is trying to make the actual experience
better for those who 'need' cs.  

I have been to 4 cs out of the last 5 births I have attended and
although it is great to be able to facilitate a positive and necessary
cs for these women I still leave feeling rather disillusioned by the
whole thing.

Sigh

Jo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philippa
Scott
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:23 PM
To: MARIE MCAULIFFE; Cathy Styles; ozmidwifery;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; QLDMCcore; LYNN HEILBRONN; Honey Acharya;
Nicola Peterson; Nikki Dummett; R & H Murdoch; Sarah Cusack; Shelley
Todd
Subject: [ozmidwifery] FW: [cbistudents] Fw: [birthisrael] "natural" c/s


I thought this might interest you all, sorry if you have already seen
it.

Cheers
Philippa Scott
Birth Buddies - Doula
Providing Informational, Physical & Emotional Support during Pregnancy,
Child Birth & the Newborn time. President of the Friends of the Birth
Centre Townsville -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of amanda goldman
Sent: Monday, 9 January 2006 3:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [cbistudents] Fw: [birthisrael] "natural" c/s

Did you all see this?

- Original Message - 
From: r weissfish 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 8:38 PM
Subject: [birthisrael] "natural" c/s


What do you all think of this?!
Riva

Every bit as magical 

A British doctor is challenging convention to pioneer the 'natural'
caesarean. Joanna Moorhead watched one baby's slow and gentle arrival 

Saturday December 3, 2005
The Guardian 


The scent of lavender fills the air and classical music is playing
quietly. On the bed, Jax Martin-Betts, 42, is calm, focused and in
control. With the birth of her second child just minutes away, the
midwife, Jenny Smith, is giving her a massage. Her husband, Teady
McErlean, is whispering words of
encouragement: just a tiny bit longer, and our baby will be in our arms!

It could be a natural birth at any maternity unit in Britain, but we are
in an operating theatre at Queen Charlotte's and Chelsea hospital in
west London, and the birth we are about to witness sounds a
contradiction in
terms: a "natural" caesarean section. 


Article continues










Jax has been on the theatre table for half an hour, and the
obstetrician, Professor Nick Fisk, has almost completed the incisions
through her abdominal wall and into her uterus. "OK, the baby is about
to be born," he says. "Let's prop you up so you can see him coming out."

Smith removes the blue drape between Jax's head and her belly, and the
head of the bed is lifted to give Jax a clear view. Fisk cuts into the
amniotic sac and a fountain of fluid rises into the air before he
rummages around to locate the baby's head. In a few seconds it comes
into view, covered with the milky-white vernix that has protected it in
the womb. For the next few moments, the atmosphere in the theatre is
electric: Jax and Teady gasp in wonder at their new son, who is now
looking around, although his lower body and legs are still inside his
mother's uterus. 

This groundbreaking approach to surgical delivery - Fisk calls it a
"skin-to-skin caesarean", or "walking the baby out" - has been pioneered
by him partly in response to the rising caesarean rate, which according
to recent statistics reached a new high at 22.7% (of deliveries in
England, 2003-04). "Whatever your view on caesareans, for some women
it's always going to be the safest choice," he explains. "And while
couples having normal deliveries have been given more and more
opportunities to be fully involved in childbirth, very little has been
done to see how we could make the experience more meaningful for those
having caesareans." 

As Fisk started to examine the conventions of surgical delivery, he was
struck by how easily they could be challenged. Why, for example, did
they need to be done so quickly, when slowing them down would give the
parents more chance to participate in their child's delivery and might
give the baby a gentler experience of coming into the world? Why, too,
was it so important for the parents to be screened off from the mother's
abdomen? And was it really essential for the baby to be whisked off for
an immediate medical examination, rather than delivered into the arms of
his mother? 

"What I realised was that caesareans were done a certain way because
they've always been done a certain way, but in fact they can be done
differently - and in a way that parents love," says Fisk. Other doctors
are sometimes shocked when they hear what he is doing. "They say, but
surely you have to ge

RE: [ozmidwifery] CARES VBAC Info

[Dean & Jo]

The cost is $20 Branda but for those who have sent payments in to date,
the first batch went off without a hitch; the second not so well.  The
programed used to burn the CD corrupted fonts, layouts and the such.  I
have worked it out now but then christmas and three babies happened so I
have been forced to drop the sending of the disks down priority again.
I will be sending all the orders already received in the next few days.
Mnay apologies...I thought this had all been worked out before I posted
the avalability of the VBAC CD.

Cheers (a rather red faced) Jo from CARES 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of brendamanning
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 3:46 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] CARES VBAC Info


Would you remind me of the cost please, so I can forward a cheque. With
kind regards Brenda Manning 
www.themidwife.com.au

- Original Message - 
From: "Dean & Jo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:13 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] CARES VBAC Info


> To those people who sent cheques for the CARES SA Birth After 
> Caesarean information booklet; Thanks and the CD's are in the post 
> today so check you post boxes next week!
> Sorry for the delay.
> 
> Those who still want a copy of the CD with HEAPS of information on 
> VBAC, please send a cheque to CARES SA
> POBox 1013
> Nairne SA 5252
> 
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[ozmidwifery] RE:

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



When 
will we learn?  
 
When 
ONE peice of selective research shows that still birth rates are lower in the 
39th week and suddenly all the obs are saying that ALL women should be induced 
at 39 to save more babies.and no one argues it! Scaremongering and 
manipulation of findings, nothing more and nothing less.  The OB whom most 
of us consider a decent bloke said that this sort of finding would help those 
women who go home empty handed...what about all those who go home with scars on 
their bellies?  Apparently there is no link to increased cs rates with 
inductions according to his public address: hmmcan you follow that up 
with a percentage of how many women induced @ women's & childens end in cs?? 
No.  Hmmm 
 
 It is amazing how selective the pickings are of what findings are 
used to change the system or justify acts: at the same time this research was 
released, the study into homebirth safety was releaseddidnt hear a peep and 
no one rushed off to make huge changes from that.  I think there should be 
a NON BIASED body that governs what reseach findings can influence change.  
I say non-biased because the latest generation of chocrane is heavily laden 
with preset agendas. Stins with the retched waft of politics of self 
survival.
 
(a 
disenchanted) Jo from SA

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  sharonSent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 8:18 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: 
  well said julie.
  over the past few weeks i have been in labour 
  ward with many women induced and all of them have lead to a cascade of 
  intervention culminating in LSCS. The woman i was with the last shift, for 
  example, ended up with a trial of forceps in theatre! why oh why do the powers 
  that be decided it is time to come out ready or not! not to mention the fact 
  that women then feel let down that they cannot due to a myriad of facts such 
  as maternal exhaustion push that baby out.
  JUST WHEN WILL WE LEARN.
  regards
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  AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release 
  Date: 12/23/2005


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RE: [ozmidwifery] RM birth announcement:)

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



woo hoo! it is a GREAT day for the women of 
the Mount Barker area!!!  :o)
 

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julie 
GarrattSent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:12 PMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] RM birth 
announcement:)

  Well I am happy to announce the safe arrival 
  of my university transcript closely followed by my registration and cute 
  little badge after a three year labour at Flinders university.
   Many thanks to the midwives, my fellow 
  students, lecturers and the BMid collective and Ozmid list for their help 
  and support.
   
  I start work on an early at Mt Barker Hospital 
  tomorrow and I cant wait. Yarho!
  Julie Garratt RM :)
   
   
  --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by 
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  Release Date: 12/2/2005


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[ozmidwifery] Quick water birth question

[Dean & Jo]

Where can I access on line a statement about being in water to labour
and perhaps birth in the situation where the membranes have already
ruptured?  I have a doula clients whose OB has said she cant get into
water if her waters have broken due to infection risks.  I need a
mediacl reference that explains this situation.
Cheers
Jo

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely horrified!

[Dean & Jo]

Made YOU cry Brenda!  I was her doula who was so rudely interstate at
the time !!!  Amanda's story made me cry that I wasn’t able to be with
her

Amanda is right though, she did birth AMAZINGLY!  Go Girl!

Love Jo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of brendamanning
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:53 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely horrified!


Amanda wrote:
"Perhaps it might be suggested that women should have an advocate in
with 
them whenever the have to speak to these OBs either a midwife or someone

like that, then maybe those OB's might choose their words a little more 
carefully" !!
FANTASTIC IDEA !! Take a doula / witness / advocate/ anyone who will
support 
you.
Your story made me cry Amanda !!
To be treated so badly & have no one to share it with, but still go on
to 
triumph!
You deserve a medal to have managed to birth at all !

With kind regards
Brenda Manning
www.themidwife.com.au

- Original Message - 
From: "Synnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely horrified!


>I cried when I read what your lady from Melbourne wrote.  Just 
>remembering
>the way a  horrible doctor spoke to me when I was very pregnant with my

>third who also happened to be a VBAC.  Had to see a doctor because it
was 
>hospital policy, they had to "okay" my natural birth decision before I 
>could go ahead with it. My Doula was away and couldn't come to the 
>appointment. His total negative attitude and the fact that he spoke to
the 
>inturn rather than to me as if I wasn't even in the room, made my blood

>boil.  Then he decided he guessed they could "let" me "trial labour".
God 
>did I wanted to slap him and slap him hard!!!  But instead I said
thankyou 
>like a good little girl and drove myself home crying uncontrollably all
the 
>way (had to go to the hair dressers for app. right away).  Composed
myself 
>and walked in, made excuses for my puffy eyes (hayfever), when all I
wanted 
>to do was scream my head off and rant about this bloody doctor but 
>couldn't.  I was so humiliated, felt like such an idiot and thought of
all 
>the great stuff I should have said to the doctors face, but because it
was 
>standing up for my own rights didn't say a word.
>
> Anyway my "trial labour" turned into a beautiful natural birth, no 
> drugs,
> no cut, no interference by doctors ( I allowed one to stick a needle
in my 
> arm and that was it) birthed with a midwife, student midwife, my
husband 
> and my wonderful Doula. On my knees gripping onto my husbands
shoulders, 
> with a beautiful baby boy weighing 4540g (yes I have big babies and it
can 
> be done!).  I hope as a midwife to give every birthing mother that

> kind of powerful birth (no matter what way the birth ends up), I felt
so 
> loved, so cared for, so safe and so empowered there was no question I 
> wanted to do it again.  Which by the way I am for the 4th time in May
next 
> year.
>
> I get so sick of hearing how women are treated by OB's when during
> pregnancy alot of them are very vulnerable and open to suggestion 
> especially when it come to the OB giving them half truths in regards
to 
> what is best for them and their baby.  Perhaps it might be suggested
that 
> women should have an advocate in with them whenever the have to speak
to 
> these OBs either a midwife or someone like that, then maybe those OB's

> might choose their words a little more carefully!!
>
> Sorry! Wow a bit of a rant there!
>
> Amanda
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kelly @ BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 11:54 AM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely horrified!
>
>
>> Thanks everyone for your thoughts and replies, it was a huge shock to

>> me
>> but
>> I guess, sadly, that many of you are well used to this. I haven't
heard 
>> from
>> the woman since Saturday so chances are she's gone into labour. I
pray it
>> all went as well as she hoped.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Kelly Zantey
>> Director, www.bellybelly.com.au & www.toys4tikes.com.au Gentle 
>> Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth & Baby Australian Little 
>> Tikes Specialists
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cheryl LHK
>> Sent: Monday, 21 November 2005 1:25 AM
>> To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
>> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely horrified!
>>
>> Yes, she can turn up to any public hospital with midwifery services 
>> and
>> not
>> be turned away.  Tell her to have a copy of antenatal paperwork she
has 
>> (if
>> she has it!!) and the midwives at the hospital can ring her orginal 
>> booking
>> hospital and get any records/pathology faxed over - or at least that
has
>> happened to us in the past.
>>
>> This is the sort of obs who needs a complaint written about him!!  
>> But it will turn into a "he said, sh

RE: [ozmidwifery] Mother friendly hospitals

[Dean & Jo]

Ah, but mother friendly involves before the birth and during the birth
where mum is a single unit not a double unit -with baby.  Hospitals are
rarely mother friendly, there are individuals who try to facilitate a
mother centred experience but usually this goes against the policies in
place that are institution focused.  

One thing that needs to be addressed is how we can make a post operative
cs mum be able to access her baby without having to call the already
busy and over wroked midwives on Post natal ward.  Nothing is more
crushing than wanting to hold your child but physically unable to move
to pick them up.  Bending, picking up and even rolling on the side all
involes movement of the abdominal muscules...the ones most traumatised
after cs.  
I laid there for hours dying inside wanting to hold my son when he
cried, and when I cried.  Calling the mw seemed 'too selfish' as she was
so busy to just come and pick baby up.  Catering for dads more is a
great idea.
LOVE the idea of extended stay but not suitable for those with children
already at home.  SA has amother acrer program run from Lylle Mac
hospital.  That is a great service based on the Dutch model of caring
for women at home.

Got to go to work now!

Jo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barbara Glare
& Chris Bright
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 5:33 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mother friendly hospitals


Hi,
I really disagree that baby friendly hospitals are OK for the baby but
tough 
on the mother.  And if your baby friendly hospital is tough on the
mother, 
then you should be looking at why - because it shouldn't be that way.
The 
newborn mother and baby are a unit.  They both surely need to be cared
for 
as though they were one.  I think it's part of the problem of society
that 
mothers and babies are pitted against each other almost from birth.

Mothers and babies are both usually happier and calmer when together.
If a 
mother is of the believe that she needs the baby away from her to rest,
a 
common enough belief in our society, maybe all that needs to happen is a

little empathy and good explanations from the staff "I know you are
tired, 
but what we find is that mothers and babies actually rest better when
they 
rest together." Just like you would explain to a mum that she doesn't
need 
to rush off straight away and have a shower - there'll be time for that 
later.  Her baby needs to smell her familiar smell and get to know his
mum 
(and breastfeed)
Surely hospitals can be flexible enough for staff to take the baby for a

while if needed - carrying in a sling is great modelling for the mum and

keeps baby calm, or dad or grandma can help out.

For every mother I hear when I'm assessing baby friendly hopitals who
say 
they would have liked a nursery, I hear many, many more whom the staff
told 
that they must be tired and they would take the baby so the mother could

rest - the mothers lay unsleeping and rigid in their beds, worrying if
that 
baby they could hear crying was their baby.

Barb
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 12:27 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mother friendly hospitals


> Wouldn't it ?
> I always say baby - friendly is OK for the baby but often it's really
> tough on the mothers.
> We ought to be able to do service to both, compromise being the
operative 
> word.
> The old days of 'lying in & convalescing' were good for mothers &
babies, 
> I agree with the previous post about too much being expected of new 
> mothers. Especially after a C/S which after all is major surgery.
> Yes, birth is a natural process but never the less it's exhausting,
hard, 
> manual & mental labour. Women need to recover & recuperate to cope
with 
> the demands of mothering, feeding & running a household.
> The old 'lying in hospitals ' were not such a bad idea were they ? In
fact 
> I've often thought of the need for a private facility offering those 
> services nowadays. Like an extended stay unit where women go post
birth 
> for 1 or 2 weeks & get fed,nurtured, educated, assisted with feeding, 
> shown postnatal exercises, encouraged to rest, have massages, see 
> naturopaths re healing remedies if needed etc.
> In fact Wholistic Care !!
>
> What do you think ?
> Idealistic ??
>
>
>
>> Dean & Jo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
> Ahhh!
> mother friendly hospitals...now that would be worth pursuing!
>
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[ozmidwifery] Mother friendly hospitals

[Dean & Jo]

Ahhh!
 mother friendly hospitals...now that would be worth pursuing!

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RE: [ozmidwifery] rooming in

[Dean & Jo]

As a mother the child youth health 'experts' always say we need to take
tiem for oursleves at soe point...why not at the point of utter
exhustion after birth??

I STILL need time out from my kids and have spent many a time hiding in
the walk in robe!  :o)  come to think of it, the 4 year old is still
romming in with me now anyway!

Love Jo



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RE: [ozmidwifery] question - lodging complaints

[Dean & Jo]

This is an interesting thread that I must comment on again:

With the consumer support I have been involved with for the many years I
have and just in the year I have been a doula,  the definition of a
negative experience is so varied!  What I would deem as a great natural
vaginal birth with no tears etc have been described as hideous by a few
women.  I know women who have had a cs that were totally unwarranted but
LOVED themwhat some think (rightly) as abuse can be accepted as
others as normal.

The point being, people writing in about the trauma they suffered during
birth can encompass such a diversity of experiences.  Who actually
defines what a negative experience is?  Is it the care given by the MW
or OB or how they deliver that care?  They could be a sweet as pie as
they cut peris for no more than routine reasons resulting in long term
incontinence issues.  If the woman trusts them and likes them then is it
abuse?  What if an arrogant or just a forthright OB or MW comes in and
demands a woman to get up off the bed and squat to birth which results
in the woman having intense ctx and a baby? Is the way she was spoken to
the determining factor or the fact that she was able to birth the baby
without the need of any needless medical intervention?  

Or perhaps the birth I was at last night would be a good example:
beautiful natural birth with a first time mum who had a small tear in
the vaginal wall and external surface tearing.  She required suturing
which was done by the birth centre staff.  Local was used but this woman
was so scarred and traumatized she screamed for 20 minutes like I have
never heard anyone scream before.  Her pain was amplified by her fear
and the gas she used.  We were trying to do the right thing by her but
never before have I felt like I had been involved with the assault on
another human being.  She was being told by the two (wonderful) midwives
(so no insinuation of them being to blame for this as they were really
wonderful women) and her poor husband what to do and so on which scared
her and confused her more.  I held her hand and let the tears run down
my face as she sobbed my name.  Did we abuse her? How do we define what
is abuse on another?  How does the people who we write to evaluate this?
How do we define what is unacceptable to me but fine with the woman
birthing in the other room?

I don’t like any medical person telling me what to do: suggestions and
advice is fine.  But what about the woman who can not make decisions
without firm guidance?  Is it guidance or is it authorative?  There are
times when we all just want someone to make the decision for us as we
can not or don’t know everything that we need to know to make the
decision.  

I am not adverse to writing inn with a complaint of a care provider. I
am in my eight year of letter writing and responding!!  I KNOW that if
people don’t write in a and say something then no changes can be
made...but again I come back to the diversity of perceptions.  How do I
know the person reading my letters didn’t have a baby die because no one
gave her a cs when needed?  How is she going to respond to me bitching
about getting a cs for no reason?  

Sorry, rambling! Still processing last night and also catching up on
sleep.  Another due last week so could go tonight!
Love Jo (B)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine
Caines
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:19 PM
To: OzMid List
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] question - lodging complaints


Hi Jo and All
The disclaimer from what you have said was to indemnify the Ob from
responsibility of a stuff up and it was as a response to refusal to c/s
with that logic he has acted totally against the parents wishes by
performing that episiotomy.  I think having signed that form they have
more to argue, ie they were making the decisions and taking
responsibility.  They made it clear what their wishes were, the husband
asked him to stop and he did not.  I believe he has a case to answer re
the evidence of 'cranial haemorrhage' etc etc and what benefit was
achieved through such an assault.

It may be worthwhile contacting Andrew Bissets at John Hunter Hospital
re some facts (from an Ob) re vaginal breech as he has assisted over
400, he may have some ammo re the epis.  Let me know if you want his
e-mail.

I agree with Andrea evey couple up to making a complaint should be
supported to.  The former HCC Commissioner in NSW agreed with what we
said about the broken maternity system and yet said what can I do with
13 complaints for 86,000 births! She had a point.

JC
xxx


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RE: [ozmidwifery] PPH risks

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



WE had 
a CARES member once who had PPH with all of her babes and all were actively 
managed.  She then read in  Effective Guide that active management can 
in fact cause PPH in some cases. 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  EmilySent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:26 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] PPH 
  risks
   hi everyonedoes anyone know of any evidence on 
  the volume of PPHs averted by active management? the big studies 'show' 
  (whether flawed or not) that active management decreases the risk of PPH, but 
  id like to know how much of this decrease is in the minor PPH range 
  500mL-1000mL which isnt likely to be symptomatic or adversely affect the woman 
  anyway. another thing i find amazing is that physiological management 
  'isnt allowed' because of the increased risk of PPH, yet an emergency 
  caesarean is associated with a 9 times increased risk of PPH !! and elective 
  caesarean with a 4 times increased risk. an episiotomy is associated with a 5 
  times increased risk. yet these are never used as reasons why we shouldnt use 
  such interventions. it is just accepted as part of the process. but any risk 
  associated with leaving things alone is seen as unacceptable(reference 
  http://www.show.scot.nhs.uk/sign/guidelines/sogap/sogap4.html)! 
  :(emily
  
  
  Yahoo! 
  FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. 
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Melb Ob's Supportive of Lotus Birth

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



you 
could contact the college of spiritual midwifery and ask if they can refer 
someone?
 
cheers
Jo
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
  BellyBellySent: Monday, November 14, 2005 2:41 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Melb Ob's 
  Supportive of Lotus Birth
  
  A girl in my forums has asked of 
  any Melbourne Ob’s / GP’s etc that are supportive of Lotus Birth for her birth 
  – anyone? I’ve suggested Lionel Steinberg as a possible and also Peter Lucas – 
  but other than that I have no idea where to 
start.
  Best Regards,Kelly 
  ZanteyDirector, www.bellybelly.com.au & 
  www.toys4tikes.com.auGentle 
  Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth & BabyAustralian Little 
  Tikes Specialists 
   
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RE: [ozmidwifery] CARES VBAC Info

[Dean & Jo]

Sorry Barbra, 
The cost is $15 for the CD including postage.
Cheers
Jo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barbara
Stokes
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:58 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] CARES VBAC Info


Could I please have the cost of CD and postage in order to post a cheque
Monday for the CARES VBAC cd? Thankyou, Barbara, 
-Original Message-


To those people who sent cheques for the CARES SA Birth After Caesarean
information booklet; 
Thanks and the CD's are in the post today so check you post boxes next
week! Sorry for the delay.

Those who still want a copy of the CD with HEAPS of information on VBAC,
please send a cheque to 
CARES SA 
POBox 1013
Nairne SA 5252

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Abby's Birth Announcement

[Dean & Jo]

Abby, you know that I know just how wonderful you feel at this moment!
I am SO very proud of you and cant wait to hear your birth story!
Love 
Jo
CARES
 

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[ozmidwifery] CARES VBAC Info

[Dean & Jo]

To those people who sent cheques for the CARES SA Birth After Caesarean
information booklet; 
Thanks and the CD's are in the post today so check you post boxes next
week!
Sorry for the delay.

Those who still want a copy of the CD with HEAPS of information on VBAC,
please send a cheque to 
CARES SA 
POBox 1013
Nairne SA 5252

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RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...

[Dean & Jo]

As a doula, I have noticed a huge difference in some hospital based
midwives -the emphasis is on the word some in that sentence.  I have
witnessed women being manipulated by midwives because the midwife was
unable to accept the woman did not wish to adhere to the unit
policies...especially vbac related policies, or simply because I am an
invited member of the birth team!  Language and insinuation have been
used to coerce, threaten and scare women into compliance.  That is
something that I have found to be the most upsetting quality...when the
focus is on what suits the unit not the woman...be it the pressure of
the unit or the fear of retribution upon a midwife that stands up for
the rights of the woman, it reinforces the problems with the system.


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FW: [ozmidwifery] ANF article

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



fyi

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larissa 
InnsSent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 12:28 PMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] ANF 
article
Those of you who are ANF members and receive the 
ANJ there is a great article (3 pages!) in this months issue by Fiona Armstrong 
titled "The fight to care" and it's all about women having the right to choose 
midwifery care. 
Well worth a read.
Hugs, Larissa
 
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RE: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



The 
ACMI SA education sessions often address water birth. I know there will be a 
session on water birth at next April's  Port Pirie information 
weekend.  Perhaps contact ACMI SA and ask if there is something 
closer.
cheers
Jo 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  sharonSent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:57 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] 
  waterbirth
  can anyone direct me where i can attend a class 
  which teaches midwives about waterbirth. iam interested to offer women who i 
  care for this service but i feel that i need to attend a study day or seminar 
  so i can be more proficient in the care of women who want a 
  waterbirth.
  thankyou
  sharon 
  p.s. preferably in adelaide.
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Older Children's Sleep

[Dean & Jo]

Kate, 

I am sorry to hear you are dealing with this..on top of study and the
such it is so important that you are supported with this.

Have you chatted to Pinky?  She might be able to give you some
suggestions.

I hesitate to begin asking questions for fear of asking those stupid
questions you have already asked and explored a million times but you
know I love ya and mean no offense (plus you know you can tell me to
GFM) Is there an underlying cause of all this?  Many night time sleep
problems can stem from the morning or days activities.  

I am going to the CARES meeting tnight but can I call you tomorrow?

Love and hugs for you
Jo Bainbridge

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kate &/or
Nick
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:15 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Older Children's Sleep


Can anyone point me in a direction for 3yo sleep issues?
Mine has always been a bad sleeper but she has got worse in the last
year 
(with the transition from a cot?). Between the 2 of them (6yo, but 90%
Miss 
3), I would consider it a good night if I am up 4 times for 20 mins each

time. Bad nights are at least every hour. I'm starting to find that by
6pm I 
am exhausted and far too crabby - and so are they. Going to bed isn't a 
problem.

Sometimes I go to the crying (last night was 7 times in one hour, plus
four 
other blocks) but mostly it seems to have no effect. At times I don't
think 
she even realises I'm there and I can't get through to her. Others
she'll 
settle, but within 3 minutes, she starts again. Others she'll insist on 
coming to my room. Sometimes I don't go in, and she will eventually come
to 
me.

We have a mattress on the floor right next to me, which is used every
night. 
It usually doesn't alter the wakenings (but it makes my life a bit
easier). 
I have slept in her room, with no effect.While my eldest was away in the

school holidays (6 nights), I slept in her room, right next door to Miss
3. 
The last couple of nights I was only woken briefly 2-3 times a night,
but 
that has happened in the past and wasn't enough for me to think it was 
anything more than a temporary aberration. It returned to normal with
her 
sister's return - even though I slept on a mattress outside their rooms.

Being close to me (and she is a definite Mummy's girl) just doesn't seem
to 
be the solution.

The issue is coming to a head because my husband has had an amazing
ability 
to sleep through it. He will sometimes wake at 4 or 5 to find me in
tears 
and has no idea why - usually that I have been up all night and haven't
yet 
been to sleep. However, for the last month, for some reason, it has been

waking him. So he is at breaking point and telling me we need to do 
something.

I'm concerned about heading off to a sleep guru because I have no
intention 
of locking her in her room - and that's what it will take to keep her in
her 
room. But it won't stop the crying which I know can go on for hours (and
I 
can't sleep through it).

The sleep discussion has focussed on infants - but what about older 
children? Can anyone give me ideas/point me towards something?

Many thanks

Kate


- Original Message - 
From: "Barbara Glare & Chris Bright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Infant Sleep - UPDATE


Hi,

If you are interested in Elizabeth Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solution, you
can hear her speak at ABA seminars in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Perth
and Adelaide from March 2nd-7th 2006.  It's going to be fabulous - heaps
of other great speakers, too.  I'd love to be able to direct you to the
website so you can register straight away..but I can't.  It's not
finished yet. The brochures will be out soon, so I'll keep you informed.
For ABA subscribers and LRC subscribers, you will get information in
Essence and Breastfeeding Review.  The seminars are open to all
midwives, mothers, health professionals of all types, esp those with a
passion for breastfeeding.

Barb
- Original Message - 
From: "JoFromOz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Infant Sleep - UPDATE


> Thanks so much to everyone who replied with advice and well wishes.
>
> Just thought I'd write a short update on our progress.  I have 3 days 
> left of my non-dairy diet ... I haven't really noticed a change in 
> Will's skin, or daytime naps, but the nights have been a little better

> the last 2 or 3. I have read "The No-Cry Sleep Solution" and began 
> implementing strategies on Friday.  I logged our wakings Thursday 
> night, and they equalled 13... 11 of which I had to actually do 
> something about. The strategy basically involves removing the 
> suck-to-sleep association ever so slowly, so that they get used to not

> having to suck to sleep, and therefore don't expect to still be 
> sucking on anything when they slightly rouse in the light sleep phase.

[ozmidwifery] CARES CD

[Dean & Jo]

Thank you to all the orders for the CARES birth after cs CD.

The CDs are being finished this week and will be sent out by Monday next
week at the latest. Sorry for the delay.  All those wanting internet
direct banking I still need to find out through the bank.  Should have
it organised again by the end of the week.

Thanks for your paitence...no need for an induction yet! :o)

Jo
xx

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[ozmidwifery] FW: [accessingartemis] Midwife needs your help

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



 

I  know this has 
been discussed previously and I think there was an inquiry as to the up date on 
this terrible situation.  Here is a web site that is updating the 
situation about the Washington Midwife being dragged through the 
courts for facilitating a home breech birth.  The importance of this is the 
prosecution for the Washington state is arguing breech should always be by cs, 
so despite people's opinion on breech at home, this is more to do 
with vaginal 
breech.  http://www.shaheedapierce.com/  
 


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[ozmidwifery] FW: [cbistudents] Fw: France

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



any 
connections?
cheers
Jo

-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jennifer 
McFarlandSent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:46 PMTo: aami; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
[cbistudents] Fw: FranceI got this in my e-mail 
today...anybody know any english speaking midwives in 
France?-Jen- Original Message - From: "Dave & 
Claire Whitney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:54 
AMSubject: France> Hi,>> Not sure if you can 
help me, but I would like to find an English-speaking> midwife in France 
for a  homebirth.>> Any suggestions?>> Thanks 
so much,>> Claire>> --> No virus found in 
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YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Maternal and Perinatal Outcomes AssociatedWith a Trial of Labor After Prior Cesarean Delivery

[Dean & Jo]

I often have this argument Abby, that before we start triAling the
safety of vbac we should look at the Vbac outcomes for various settings
and modles of care.  I argue that even the very low rates of rupture in
a hospital setting (the rates that still include induced and augmented
labours!) are not indicative of the REAL rtes of ruptures and 'failed'
vabc attempts because the meddle factor is always present in a tertiary
hospital setting that always influences these things.

MANIPULATION OF DATA

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:22 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Maternal and Perinatal Outcomes
AssociatedWith a Trial of Labor After Prior Cesarean Delivery


> Maternal and Perinatal Outcomes Associated With a Trial of Labor After

> Prior Cesarean Delivery
>  
Wouldn't it be great to have a study done on VBAC outcomes that were
purely natural and homebirths. All the studies seem to be done in big
hospitals where, I can imagine, they have strict proticols regarding
'trial of scar' or 'trial of labor' ( aauugghh how much I hate that,
like giving women permission to 'trial' their body, automatically gives
a sense of maybe I can, maybe I can't!!) 
Surely the outcomes of a study would differ greatly when women birthed
with complete freedom of movement and with noone monitoring constantly,
no fingers eager to 'check' how things are going and no fear from
caregivers.

Love Abby
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RE: [ozmidwifery] support people in OT

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



From a 
consumers personal experience and perspective it should be imperative that the 
woman has some say in who she wishes to be there for the birth 
of her child and who can stay with her during recovery.  
There is NO hell like being left alone when dad goes off with baby if special 
care or observations are needed, having strangers hidden behind 
masks pulling tugging at you, chatting about this that and the other like 
you are not important or even there!  To labour for hours and then require 
a cs for distress or complications (immersed in the language that is less than 
woman focused -distress, emergency etc), to be whisked off to surgery, have 
baby and your rock -being your partner- leave you and then be left alone in 
recovery is one of the reasons why women DO suffer Post Traumatic 
Stress. As a doula I have been able to be a second support person on a few 
occasions which has aided the woman's emotional recovery.  If there is room 
for students and a woman wants a second support person, then say no to a student 
and make room!
NO WOMAN SHOULD EVER BE LEFT ALONE DURING ANY STAGE OF A 
CS!! 
 
Jo Bainbridge
CARES SA
www.cares-sa.org.au
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  dianeSent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 7:51 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] support 
  people in OT
  Hi Katrina, It would be great,(but a huge mind 
  leap for Gosford!) to get the recovery thing going. You should look at the 
  John Hunter changes (in a recent Midwifery matters I think?) and see if you 
  can get something happening. Im sure with Carols help you could get it going. 
  Can you bring it up at a meeting? Looks like we may be getting caseload of the 
  ground up at Wyong before long, as management (at the top) is 
  supportive.
  Cheers
  Diane
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Ceri 
& Katrina 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 11:59 
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] support 
people in OT
As yet we don't routinely get the recovery time happening. 
Midwife, dad and baby meet mum back on the ward after recovery...It is 
usually only when we have a quieter time or lots of staff, or nice recovery 
staff that we can get into recovery. Hopefully this will change in the 
futureKatrina









www.niagaraparkshow.com.auOn 
18/10/2005, at 8:34 AM, Cheryl LHK wrote:
Thanks, it does sound rather crowded doesn't it?We had 
  the em LUSCS at 2330 on the weekend (pretty normal time isn't it?) and I 
  had just come on for the night. Hubby and Mum had been there the whole day 
  with her, obstructed labour at fully. Primep. So I went and saw her GP and 
  asked him if he had a problem with Mum coming in as well. So the GP anaes 
  sat them up near Mum's head after her spinal, and babe came out 
  screeching, so he was wrapped and I plonked myself inbetween the anaes 
  machine and GP surgeon and held baby beside her face so he could nuzzle 
  her and hubby/Nanna (now) had cuddles, then we all trotted out to recovery 
  and bub went straight into bed with Mum, BF beautifully... it was quite a 
  pleasant night all round actually. I just sat warming myself at the 
  resusataire doing the paperwork watching this gorgeous family chattering 
  away and just enjoying their new little man.I suppose being the 
  small hospital, we don't have students, paeds' etc, and also a huge OT 
  room. It's interesting what you say about GA's though. I'm sure our 
  fathers are allowed in once the anaes is settled and she is draped, then 
  they come in and sit with the midwife in the corner and get to hold the 
  baby, go to recovery with baby and meet Mum there. I know personally one 
  grandma who was at our hospital for both of her grandchildren's LUCSCs and 
  in the OT with her camera!! She had a great time!Anyway, off for 
  the school runCheryl
  From: Ceri & Katrina 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] support 
people in OTDate: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:00:33 +1000HI 
Cherylnot sure if it is protocol as such, but at Gosford if it is an 
emergencey Code 1 LSCS, and the women is under a GA, then no support 
people are allowed in theatre at all. If it is a lesser code or 
elective, then the partner/husband can be present. I have not heard of 
more than this number. It gets pretty cramped by the time you have the 
Ob, registrar or/and resident, anaestheitist, anaesthetic nurse, scout 
nurse, and scrub nurse plus the midwife and midwife student if there is 
one. Plus we have the paeds present so there is at least 2 more doctors. 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Scottish dads push wives towardC-sections? I don't think so

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



Okay, 
so now 'they' are blaming the dads for Cs rates...moved on from the women 
demanding the CS to dads.  I think it is a poor reflection on education of 
soon to be parents, or the lack of good education.  I am aware that dads 
can get overwhelmed by birth, as a doula supporting dad through it is part of my 
job,  but I tell you if my husband had even mention cs to me because he was 
feeling overwhelmed I would have sent him packing out of the room in no nive 
fashion!
 
Jo

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken 
  WArdSent: Friday, October 14, 2005 10:34 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Scottish 
  dads push wives towardC-sections? I don't think so
  I 
  have given women drugs in labour at their partners demand. Also epidurals and 
  c/s organised because the partner wasn't coping. It is devesting when a woman 
  is labouring well, and her partner, or sometimes her mother, isn't coping and 
  undermines the woman's confidence in her body. I have often felt like giving 
  him the drugs. One feels hopeless and helpless when adverse comments and 
  stressed support people influence the woman. And lets face it, in the hospital 
  setting who has the strongest and personal relationship, and therefore more 
  likely to influence ?
  
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Gloria 
LemaySent: Friday, 14 October 2005 5:59 AMTo: 
Undisclosed-Recipient:;@uniserve.com;;;Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
Scottish dads push wives toward C-sections? I don't think 
so
This is a group that no one has thought to 
blame the high cesarean rate on.  Hmm.  Gloria
 
 
Scotland on Sunday - October 2, 
2005 Squeamish men pushing wives towards Caesareans 
RICHARD GRAY HEALTH CORRESPONDENT FRETTING 
fathers-to-be are fuelling Scotland's soaring Caesarean sectionrate 
because they do not like to see their pregnant partners in pain,midwives 
have warned. They claim many worried husbands are afraid of the mess and 
noise thataccompanies natural childbirth.   Instead they are 
encouraging their wives to give birth at largeconsultant-led hospital 
units where they can get powerful painkillers andsurgery. But 
midwives claim these over-protective men are unwittingly causing 
theirpartners to have unnecessary Caesarean sections and drugs by taking 
them tothese "baby factories". They say more women would have 
natural births if they used smallermidwife-run maternity units. The 
proportion of women choosing to have Caesareans has leapt from 6.2% to9% 
in the last 10 years with more than 4,600 women choosing to have 
themajor surgical procedure in 2004. Experts claim the increase in 
popularity is mainly due to the misconceptionthat Caesareans are a safer 
and pain-free option to traditional childbirth. But the abdominal 
surgery can leave mothers in pain for weeks afterwards andthey are prone 
to getting infections in their wound. The controversy surrounding 
Caesareans has led to tensions between midwivesand doctors over the best 
way of providing services to pregnant women. Earlier this year the Royal 
College of Midwives launched a campaign topromote "normality" in 
childbirth. Phyllis Winters, a midwifery team leader at Montrose 
Community MaternityUnit, believes the celebrity trend of opting for 
Caesareans has helpedcreate the myth that surgery is the easier option. 
But she believes squeamish husbands have also played a part in the 
declineof natural childbirth. She will present her claims at a 
conference organised by the NationalChildbirth Trust (NCT) and the Royal 
College of Midwives in Dunfermline,Fife, on Thursday. Winters said: 
"A lot of couples take decisions about childbirth together andmen in 
particular feel wary about childbirth. "They are frightened about seeing 
their partner in pain and about what cango wrong. As a result they often 
prefer to go to the consultant led unitwhere they perceive there is a 
higher level of care. "Unfortunately there is also a higher level of 
intervention when it is notneeded. In Montrose less than 8% of the 
births we deal with at themidwife-led unit get transported to the 
specialist unit due to complications "Women need more positive 
role models to have natural births and perhapsthen we will see a change 
in the way society views what is a natural lifeevent. "Men also have 
to understand that by going to a midwife-led service they arenot taking 
a risk." Currently just 63% of all babies born in Scotland are delivered 
naturally,but midwives claim the vast majority of births using Caesarean 
sections andinduction should be allowed to happen naturally. 
Patricia Purton, director of the Royal Colleg

RE: [ozmidwifery] CARES VBAC booklet

[Dean & Jo]

PO Box 1013 
Nairne SA
5252

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nicole Carver
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 5:10 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] CARES VBAC booklet


Hi Jo,
Where do we send the cheque?
Nicole.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dean & Jo
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 5:59 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] CARES VBAC booklet


Hi everyone who has expressed interest in the CARES VBAC booklet.

This booklet has information on the vbac management policies; research
information about vbac and cs; myth-busting of vbac issues; and common
issues that women face when bithing after cs.  It is heavy on the
medical terminology but serves the purpose of educating women further.
Great stories and quotes from real women!  Truly a great rescource for
both wmen and those caring for them!!!

We have decided that the most effective way of distributing this
document (80+ pages) will be by burning it onto CD and selling the CDs
for $15 postage included for Australia (international might be a bit
more...we'll see).  That way people can  print off copies as they need.
Coupled with the Maternity Wise CS booklet (from www.maternitywise.org
), women will feel empowered, informed and supported in their choices.

CARES is a not for profit organisation with no funding other than
memberships and fundraising.  Purchase of this CD will go towards
providing VBAC education workshops for women.

No credit cards sorry.  Cheque or money orders made out to CARES SA Inc.


I will see if we can do electronic payments into our account if that
suits people also.

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth After CS booklet

[Dean & Jo]

No problems Marijke, 
Great to hear from you BTW!  Lets get togeher soon and discuss the
'other stuff' . 
Cheers
Jo 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marijke
Eastaugh
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 5:17 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth After CS booklet


Hi Jo, I would love to get a copy for myself and the Mt Barker Hospital.
I 
will ring you soon. Marijke
- Original Message - 
From: "Dean & Jo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 4:23 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth After CS booklet

Just wanting to let people know that CARES SA have just finished a 70+
page document covering all the issues about Birth After CS.  It is
AMAZINGLY GOOD (if I do say so myself! I am SO proud of Carolyn for
putting it together). It covers common myths then follows up with
current abstracts; highlights policies and management; outcomes and so
on.

ALL evidenced based.
ALL current.

Contents page:

Table of Contents

South Australian Perinatal Practice Guidelines 4
Best Available Research Comparing Risks of VBAC (Vaginal Birth After
Cesarean) and of Planned Repeat C-Section 11
Women’s Satisfaction with VBAC 17
VBAC After two Caesareans 20
Midwifery Care and VBAC 24
Preparing for a Vaginal Birth After Caesarean 28
Frequently Asked Questions 35
I was told…  39
Homebirth After Caesarean 46
Uterine Rupture 52
Another Caesarean 66
Recommended  Reading List 68
Statistics 71
Glossary 74

CARES SA INC.  is a non profit organization who provide understanding
and compassion for women recovering from  caesarean birth, planning
caesarean birth or aiming for a vaginal birth after caesarean (VBAC).

Awareness of the individual’s  rights to make informed choice is a main
focus of the group.   We encourage women and their families to become
actively involved in the decision making that will effect the birth of
their child. Aiming to increase community awareness and understanding of
the  issues surrounding surgical birth is also a main focus.

Recovery is a crucial element for maintaining good health.  It is very
important that a woman is fully informed of the physical recovery, but
more importantly we focus on the  vital need for emotional healing.
Through a safe, caring and understanding environment, women and their
partners are encouraged to follow their path to emotional healing.

Education is important when making decisions and it is our goal to be
up-to-date on current trends and philosophies.  By providing relevant
information to women and the community, we hope that a greater
understanding of the effects of caesarean birth will reduce the amount
of traumatic experiences.

Support for birth choices is vital, especially for those seeking vaginal
birth after caesarean. By providing women with the options available to
them and then respecting that choice, we hope to empower women and their
families to achieve the desired positive birth for both mother and
child.
 --*--




We will be willing to supply email versions for people at a small cost
-perhaps a CARES membership of $20 pa-  further details will be
available for those interested.

Yours in choice

Jo Bainbridge CD
CARES SA
SA MC
Bloomin Good Birth

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[ozmidwifery] Vbac booklet

[Dean & Jo]

Oh, 
And payments can be sent to:

 
CARES SA 
PO Box 1013
Nairne SA
5252

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[ozmidwifery] CARES VBAC booklet

[Dean & Jo]

Hi everyone who has expressed interest in the CARES VBAC booklet.

This booklet has information on the vbac management policies; research
information about vbac and cs; myth-busting of vbac issues; and common
issues that women face when bithing after cs.  It is heavy on the
medical terminology but serves the purpose of educating women further.
Great stories and quotes from real women!  Truly a great rescource for
both wmen and those caring for them!!! 

We have decided that the most effective way of distributing this
document (80+ pages) will be by burning it onto CD and selling the CDs
for $15 postage included for Australia (international might be a bit
more...we'll see).  That way people can  print off copies as they need.
Coupled with the Maternity Wise CS booklet (from www.maternitywise.org
), women will feel empowered, informed and supported in their choices.

CARES is a not for profit organisation with no funding other than
memberships and fundraising.  Purchase of this CD will go towards
providing VBAC education workshops for women.  

No credit cards sorry.  Cheque or money orders made out to CARES SA Inc.


I will see if we can do electronic payments into our account if that
suits people also.  

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Question....

[Dean & Jo]

If she has access to email, there are a few good email lists run by/for
VBAC women. She hasn’t given herself much time to address the issues
surrounding vbacs though...37 weeks is leaving it a bit late to work
through issues.  Her best bet is to get a doula or a midwife who will
help her get over the hurdles/issues from the last birth which WILL
surface during the labour of this one.

If she was an induced woman resulting in an emerg cs the refrase the
term to a failed induction rather than a failure to progress...let her
have the chance to let go of 'responsibility' for 'failing' by phrasing
things differently.  Keep referring to the last birth as a caesarean
birth not caesarean section (HATE THE TERM!!!) reassure her that each
birth paves the way for the next and her bosy will know what to do this
time if she is supported and has the chance to gain trust in herself.
Reading vbac birth stories can be good -or bad depending on how
emotionally vulnerable she is. AS she has no time to really work threw
things at this point in her pregnancy, information on normal birth and
positive reinforcments are the best thing to do...

www.cares-sa.org.au

www.birthrites.org

www.vbac.com

There are lots of sites dedicated to vbac.

Cheers
Jo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Carolina.Sequeida
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 2:50 PM
To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au'
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Question


Hello,
I would like to ask you all a question, a lady who is currently 37 weeks
pregnant and lives in QLD would like to try for a VBAC I am looking
for any information as she would really benefit from a support group as
she mentioned to me that she felt like she had failed because she had an
emerg c/section with her first baby. 
Any information will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Carol.
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[ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet

[Dean & Jo]

Hi to everyone who has requested a copy of the booklet.
I am waiting on Carolyn to come back from a well deserved holiday so we
can confirm the cost for the booklet.  Hard copies will be pricey due to
the size of the booklet and postage, so I am investigating th option of
burning it onto a CD which people can the use to run their own copies
off.  Would this be a more suitable option for people or would yu prefer
hard copies?
I have taken you names and such and will send an email out with all the
confirmed details.
Thanks for your support!
Cheers  
Jo
CARES SA

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth After CS booklet

[Dean & Jo]

No Denise, 
This is different to the BR booklet.  BR booklet is focused on CS birth
experience with VBAC info in the back...this is specific VBAC stuff with
heaps of research and evidenced based care.  Quite different.  The Br
booklet is now 5 years old anyway, so the info in this is more up to
date.

Cheers
Jo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Denise Hynd
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:12 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth After CS booklet


Dear Jo
So is it an update of the Birthrites booklet?
Sounds like the content is the same!?
Denise Hynd

"Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for
the 
sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by 
anyone, our bodies will be handled."

— Linda Hes

- Original Message - 
From: "Dean & Jo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:53 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth After CS booklet


Just wanting to let people know that CARES SA have just finished a 70+
page document covering all the issues about Birth After CS.  It is
AMAZINGLY GOOD (if I do say so myself! I am SO proud of Carolyn for
putting it together). It covers common myths then follows up with
current abstracts; highlights policies and management; outcomes and so
on.

ALL evidenced based.
ALL current.

Contents page:

Table of Contents

South Australian Perinatal Practice Guidelines 4
Best Available Research Comparing Risks of VBAC (Vaginal Birth After
Cesarean) and of Planned Repeat C-Section 11
Women’s Satisfaction with VBAC 17
VBAC After two Caesareans 20
Midwifery Care and VBAC 24
Preparing for a Vaginal Birth After Caesarean 28
Frequently Asked Questions 35
I was told…  39
Homebirth After Caesarean 46
Uterine Rupture 52
Another Caesarean 66
Recommended  Reading List 68
Statistics 71
Glossary 74

CARES SA INC.  is a non profit organization who provide understanding
and compassion for women recovering from  caesarean birth, planning
caesarean birth or aiming for a vaginal birth after caesarean (VBAC).

Awareness of the individual’s  rights to make informed choice is a main
focus of the group.   We encourage women and their families to become
actively involved in the decision making that will effect the birth of
their child. Aiming to increase community awareness and understanding of
the  issues surrounding surgical birth is also a main focus.

Recovery is a crucial element for maintaining good health.  It is very
important that a woman is fully informed of the physical recovery, but
more importantly we focus on the  vital need for emotional healing.
Through a safe, caring and understanding environment, women and their
partners are encouraged to follow their path to emotional healing.

Education is important when making decisions and it is our goal to be
up-to-date on current trends and philosophies.  By providing relevant
information to women and the community, we hope that a greater
understanding of the effects of caesarean birth will reduce the amount
of traumatic experiences.

Support for birth choices is vital, especially for those seeking vaginal
birth after caesarean. By providing women with the options available to
them and then respecting that choice, we hope to empower women and their
families to achieve the desired positive birth for both mother and
child.
 --*--




We will be willing to supply email versions for people at a small cost
-perhaps a CARES membership of $20 pa-  further details will be
available for those interested.

Yours in choice

Jo Bainbridge CD
CARES SA
SA MC
Bloomin Good Birth

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth After CS booklet

[Dean & Jo]

I will keep everyones name and details and when we get confirmation of
cost I will contact everyone.  There will be a week or two delay.  

CARES membership is avaiable from ou web site : www.cares-sa.org.au
Go to the support prompt on the purple line and click on brochures.  The
CARES membership form is there to downlaod as is the brochures about us.

Thanks for your support.  This really is a kick a*s booklet!  
Cheers Jo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean & Jo
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 4:24 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth After CS booklet


Just wanting to let people know that CARES SA have just finished a 70+
page document covering all the issues about Birth After CS.  It is
AMAZINGLY GOOD (if I do say so myself! I am SO proud of Carolyn for
putting it together). It covers common myths then follows up with
current abstracts; highlights policies and management; outcomes and so
on.
  
ALL evidenced based. 
ALL current.
Contents page:

Table of Contents

South Australian Perinatal Practice Guidelines  4
Best Available Research Comparing Risks of VBAC (Vaginal Birth After
Cesarean) and of Planned Repeat C-Section   11
Women’s Satisfaction with VBAC  17
VBAC After two Caesareans   20
Midwifery Care and VBAC 24
Preparing for a Vaginal Birth After Caesarean   28
Frequently Asked Questions  35
I was told… 39
Homebirth After Caesarean   46
Uterine Rupture 52
Another Caesarean   66
Recommended  Reading List   68
Statistics  71
Glossary74

CARES SA INC.  is a non profit organization who provide understanding
and compassion for women recovering from  caesarean birth, planning
caesarean birth or aiming for a vaginal birth after caesarean (VBAC).

Awareness of the individual’s  rights to make informed choice is a main
focus of the group.   We encourage women and their families to become
actively involved in the decision making that will effect the birth of
their child. Aiming to increase community awareness and understanding of
the  issues surrounding surgical birth is also a main focus.

Recovery is a crucial element for maintaining good health.  It is very
important that a woman is fully informed of the physical recovery, but
more importantly we focus on the  vital need for emotional healing.
Through a safe, caring and understanding environment, women and their
partners are encouraged to follow their path to emotional healing.

Education is important when making decisions and it is our goal to be
up-to-date on current trends and philosophies.  By providing relevant
information to women and the community, we hope that a greater
understanding of the effects of caesarean birth will reduce the amount
of traumatic experiences. 

Support for birth choices is vital, especially for those seeking vaginal
birth after caesarean.  
By providing women with the options available to them and then
respecting that choice, we hope to empower women and their families to
achieve the desired positive birth for both mother and child.
 --*--




We will be willing to supply email versions for people at a small cost
-perhaps a CARES membership of $20 pa-  further details will be
available for those interested.

Yours in choice

Jo Bainbridge CD
CARES SA
SA MC
Bloomin Good Birth  

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[ozmidwifery] Birth After CS booklet

[Dean & Jo]

Just wanting to let people know that CARES SA have just finished a 70+
page document covering all the issues about Birth After CS.  It is
AMAZINGLY GOOD (if I do say so myself! I am SO proud of Carolyn for
putting it together).
It covers common myths then follows up with current abstracts;
highlights policies and management; outcomes and so on.
  
ALL evidenced based. 
ALL current.

Contents page:

Table of Contents

South Australian Perinatal Practice Guidelines  4
Best Available Research Comparing Risks of VBAC (Vaginal Birth After
Cesarean) and of Planned Repeat C-Section   11
Women’s Satisfaction with VBAC  17
VBAC After two Caesareans   20
Midwifery Care and VBAC 24
Preparing for a Vaginal Birth After Caesarean   28
Frequently Asked Questions  35
I was told… 39
Homebirth After Caesarean   46
Uterine Rupture 52
Another Caesarean   66
Recommended  Reading List   68
Statistics  71
Glossary74

CARES SA INC.  is a non profit organization who provide understanding
and compassion for women recovering from  caesarean birth, planning
caesarean birth or aiming for a vaginal birth after caesarean (VBAC).

Awareness of the individual’s  rights to make informed choice is a main
focus of the group.   We encourage women and their families to become
actively involved in the decision making that will effect the birth of
their child. Aiming to increase community awareness and understanding
of the  issues surrounding surgical birth is also a main focus.

Recovery is a crucial element for maintaining good health.  It is very
important that a woman is fully informed of the physical recovery, but
more importantly we focus on the  vital need for emotional healing.
Through a safe, caring and understanding environment, women and their
partners are encouraged to follow their path to emotional healing.

Education is important when making decisions and it is our goal to be
up-to-date on current trends and philosophies.  By providing relevant
information to women and the community, we hope that a greater
understanding of the effects of caesarean birth will reduce the amount
of traumatic experiences. 

Support for birth choices is vital, especially for those seeking vaginal
birth after caesarean.  
By providing women with the options available to them and then
respecting that choice, we hope to empower women and their families to
achieve the desired positive birth for both mother and child.
 --*--




We will be willing to supply email versions for people at a small cost
-perhaps a CARES membership of $20 pa-  further details will be
available for those interested.

Yours in choice

Jo Bainbridge CD
CARES SA
SA MC
Bloomin Good Birth  

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Indigestion at breakfast....

[Dean & Jo]

Beautiful JC...you are amazing with words ;o)
Jo
SA

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine
Caines
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 2:05 PM
To: OzMid List
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Indigestion at breakfast


Dear All
My response to Miranda.

JC
xx


Dear Miranda

Your headline today was perfect.  It is unfortunate that the story did
not follow.

I am a Mother of 4, with twins due in November (yes I know what
contraception is!).

I live in rural NSW and have been without a maternity service for 15
years (long before I had my babies).

We have no specialist Obstetrician nor a GP with obstetric training and
probably never will.

We do however have 3 local midwives who would provide care to low risk
women in our local hospital.

Currently I travel 150 kms to receive antenatal care.  I have no choice
in this care, and the conditions of the nearest unit are pre-historic.

Miranda I read some time ago about your experiences and understand
(correct me if I am wrong) that you chose caesarean section.  I respect
that you made that choice.  Do you believe that as a woman I too should
have choice? Because currently like 50% of rural women I have none.

Do you believe that the safety of both myself and baby is important?
(From your story it would seem so)

If you do a little more research on what is happening in the majority of
rural units and even some on metropolitan fringes then you would
understand that I (as a healthy woman) would be much safer in my local
community with midwifery care (even without on site medical care).  My
³choice² now is to dodge Kangaroos in labour (no doubt in the middle of
the night) in an area with no mobile coverage, or risk an ambulance ride
if it is all too quick. Why do I say Œrisk¹ well our Ambo¹s who are
amazing people are not equipped for a post partum haemorrhage (they do
not carry syntocinon which stops bleeding, a drug midwives are trained
to use and carry). So if I have the baby enroute and have a big bleed
after they simply become good drivers. Most women do not know this and
when we are often talking 2 hour (road) transfers (and then some!) this
is very important. If I was in my local community in a midwifery unit a
midwife would have the drug and the required knowledge to stop the
bleeding.

My 3rd baby was a 50 minute labour from one small pain to a baby in
arms.  I know I am much safer with midwives caring for me in a system
that already has safe transfer arrangements for all other conditions (we
live and drive cars and work on farms and have accidents in the country
that require transfer).

By the way where I live is by no means remote, It is in the Upper Hunter
Valley, 2 and a half hours north west of Newcastle.

Women and babies deserve better.  Midwifery clinics can offer a choice
to women that are patently unsafe now.  Midwifery clinics are not just
better than birth on the side of the road, they can safely assist the
majority of women with healthy pregnancies and refer the minority of
women needing medical assistance.  At the moment none of this happens.

I would be happy to talk with you should you be open to hearing stories
of rural women in this situation.

Kind regards

Justine Caines

Phone (02) 65482248


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RE: [ozmidwifery] "Midwifery led units"

[Dean & Jo]

Love 'em all Brenda!
Jo Bainbridge

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of brendamanning
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:18 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] "Midwifery led units"


What about MMU Units
"Mothers & Midwives United"

Mother Lead Unit (MLU) Unit ?
What about women or mother chosen care ( MCC) ?
OR
It's a " women chosen care/r" centre ? ie the  WCC unit.

BM
- Original Message - 
From: "Andrea Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 7:48 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] "Midwifery led units"


> As I watched the 7.30 Report last night, that dreadful term "midwifery

> led
> unit" kept springing up. I have a real problem with this term, as you
can 
> read on My Diary:
>
> http://www.birthinternational.com/diary/index.html
>
> Can't we do better than this?
>
> Thinking caps on please!
>
> Andrea
>
> -
> Andrea Robertson
> Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth 
> Education
>
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: www.birthinternational.com
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

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RE: [ozmidwifery] another fyi...

[Dean & Jo]

Not surprising who was on the 'for' team...not sure that particular
person would even know where the vagina is...!

Jo


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Advice on positions for sleeping while pregnant

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



check 
out www.spinningbabies.com
 
Jo

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ilana 
  SoloSent: Friday, September 16, 2005 2:47 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Advice on 
  positions for sleeping while pregnantI am wondering if anyone can give me some 
  advice. I am 31 weeks pregnant and 
  my baby has been lying head down with it's back on my right hand side for 
  about a month. I have heard that 
  it is good for me to lie on my left side to encourage the baby to move to the 
  left side to reduce the chance of it going posterior during labour. Apparently 
  this is because they like to turn clockwise. I have also heard that it is good for me to avoid 
  slouching back as this could encourage the baby to move into the posterior 
  position prior to labour. This has 
  made me worried about whether I should avoid lying on my back for the same 
  reason? The problems for me is 
  that I am finding sleeping quite hard anyway, and I prefer sleeping on my back 
  or my right side. I also love lying on my beanbag, which I would say is 
  probably slouching! Do you think I 
  should worry about all of this now, in a few weeks, or just lie how I feel 
  comfortable? Thanks in 
  anticipation Regards 
  Ilana 
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RE: [ozmidwifery] synthetic oxytocin

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



do you 
really want to knw what the old source was?
 
What 
animal has the most compatible organs for humans?
 
Pigs...yep! that is right, it USED to be pig semen
 
Nowdays I think synto is purely synthetic...
 
pick 
your jaw off the floor dear! ;o)
 
Jo 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet 
  FraserSent: Friday, September 16, 2005 3:50 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] synthetic 
  oxytocin
  Hi all,
  I can't find which animals 
  are being pillaged for Synto/Pit production. The literature says "mammals" so 
  can anyone pin it down for me?
  TIA
  J
  Joyous Birth Home Birth 
  Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/
   
  Accessing Artemis Birth 
  Trauma Recoveryhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis
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RE: [ozmidwifery] IOL and C/s...

[Dean & Jo]

Tania, but you did hear BP say that there is no collection of cs rates
and failed inductions...remember it is considered the womans fault ie
FTP if an induction fails and results ina  cs...
Perhaps write to the pregnancy outcomes uinti and ask them for the data?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tania
Smallwood
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 8:52 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] IOL and C/s...


Hi Belinda,
Is this stat published anywhere, or just anecdotal?  A 60% section rate
is twice the rate for the state, and I think twice the average for that
hospital too, and having just heard a leading obstetrician there tell
women that there is NO risk of an increase in c/s as a result of
induction, I'm trying to get my head around it...

Tania
x

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda
Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2005 12:06 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] IOL and C/s...

Tania, at the wch the stats are - for primip women indcued before 41 
weeks there is a 60% cs rate.
Belinda

Tania Smallwood wrote:

>  
>
> Just wondering if there are any good quality trials about IOL and
> increase of c/s?  Have just re-read Enkin, and it does state that IOL 
> is not associated with an increase in caesarean section rate (but 
> given that most states here are up around the 30% mark, you have to 
> wonder what they are comparing that to?), but I thought something came

> out of the Uk not long ago disputing this?
>
>  
>
> Anyone?
>
>  
>
> Tania
>
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births

[Dean & Jo]

Noises during birth ARE  similar to sex I think...not that I eaves drop
that often! ;o)  I think when people think of birthing positions and
facial expressions not being 'ladylike' I often want to say "it doesn’t
seem to bother people at the other end of the equation! -being
conception!"

Thanks to cosmo and cleo we can now all feel comfortable with orgasim
and the such...saw the headline for an article called "heads up on going
down"  gawd even made me blush!  But when it comes to birth we are far
more comfortable with the quiet well behaved serene woman.  Just think,
the lay back and think of england sex of years gone by has changed to be
empowering, fulfilling and activebut birth has so far to go!

Jo
SA   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miriam Hannay
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:49 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births


I'm with you, Megan!
To give birth to a beloved child is the ultimate
expression of the emotional and sexual love my husband
and I share.

He described me during labour and birth as being
'awesome, powerful, sexy, strong, more beautiful than
ever before'. He even commented that the involuntary
noises I made during birth were similar to the noises
I make during orgasm!

Obviously, such an experience relies on the nature of
the birth itself, We had three babes at home and one
in hospital, all beautiful physiological births with
no intervention. 

With regard retaining your 'sexual mystery', I'm not
quite sure what there is about sex and sexuality
that's 'mysterious'. If a couple's sexual relationship
is open, honest, loving and passionate, does there
need to be any 'mystery'? To me this smacks a little
of patriarchal notions of women's role as sexual
object... Gee, I hope my husband doesn't find anything
about me mysterious after fourteen years, otherwise
how would he know what I need and desire?!

What would be fantastic for men would be for all
practitioners to actively facilitate a role for them
during the birth process that makes them feel involved
and reflects the extraordinary beauty of the
experience. If only... regards, Miriam.

--- Megan & Larry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Its interesting how the conversation focuses on the
> womans vagina.
> What about the rest of her body?
> My husband loved the feeling of my muscles working
> in my body, he says they
> have been different for each birth.
> The last 3 were water births, so no vagina watching
> by any one. 
> Speaking on his behalf, I know that he was and is so
> awe inspired by
> watching me have our babies, it only added to his
> desire and love. 
> So I guess the total experience of how women birth
> is what we are looking
> at. No surprises there!
> The book, I think titled, Father Time, which is a
> collection of interviews
> of Australain men, discusses this and the men who
> experienced homebirths
> very clearly did not experience the trauma. 
> 
> I'm not sure about this "sexual mystery" thing
> though. As a woman I take
> great pride in having a uterus, vagina and breasts
> that have created and
> given life 4 times, its not all about "toys for
> boys".
> (Although having 4 sons kind of retracts that
> statement)
> 
> My thoughts anyway
> Megan
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Andrea Robertson
> Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 10:26 AM
> To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] Men at births
> 
> This is an interesting report in today's Sydney
> Morning Herald. I remember
> Michel Odent talking about research done in the US
> that explored the effect
> on a couple's sexual relationship when the man had
> been exposed to the birth
> process. Michel was advocating that women might want
> to retain some of their
> "sexual mystery" by excluding men from the birth
> room. I have been at births
> where I wondered how the father was taking the sight
> of a practitioner
> cutting an episiotomy.
> 
> What does everyone think about this?
> 
>
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/08/30/1125302566185.html
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Andrea
> 
> -
> Andrea Robertson
> Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in
> Childbirth Education
> 
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: www.birthinternational.com
> 
> 
> --
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> Visit  to subscribe
> or unsubscribe.
> 
> --
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> or unsubscribe.
> 


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births

[Dean & Jo]

Personally Andrea, my hubby was far more traumatized by my second birth
-my episiotomies vbac- than my horrific cs of my first. It wasn’t until
I had my third did he truly understand what I was on about.  He was mute
with the first.  Scared sh*tless with the second.  He laughed and cried
with our last.

The energy in the room really influenced how he interpreted the event.
I also, in my role of a doula, I find dads looking for some kind of
reassurance that everything is okay.  I often say, isn't it amazing what
your partners body can do?  I never say anything in the negative about
bulging vulvas or the stretched peris...just how brilliant women's
bodies are.

As a woman, I would love to expereince a birth of one of my children in
the company of just other women.  I think it would be amazing.

Amazing amazing ...why is it I use that word so often when talking about
birth!?

jo


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea
Robertson
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:26 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Men at births


This is an interesting report in today's Sydney Morning Herald. I
remember 
Michel Odent talking about research done in the US that explored the
effect 
on a couple's sexual relationship when the man had been exposed to the 
birth process. Michel was advocating that women might want to retain
some 
of their "sexual mystery" by excluding men from the birth room. I have
been 
at births where I wondered how the father was taking the sight of a 
practitioner cutting an episiotomy.
What does everyone think about this?

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/08/30/1125302566185.html

Regards,

Andrea

-
Andrea Robertson
Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education

e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.birthinternational.com


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[ozmidwifery] National Caesarean Awareness Day

[Dean & Jo]

Hello,

Sorry for cross posting...some of you may get this more than once.

 
This is a reminder to all that the time has come to get your
registrations in for the CARES SA National CS Awareness day  -VBAC
information.  September 11th, from 10am until 3.30pm  Lunch included.
Speaking on the day is Dr Brian Peat, Midwife Megan Farnhill and then an
active birth workshop designed for VBACs..How to maximize a VBAC
successful outcome within the statewide perinatal guidelines.

Please either ring or email Tabitha Lean from Frances Bedford's MP
Office [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 8263 2666 to register.  You can
pay on the day and the prices are wonderful.  Nowhere could you get
access to the information and workshop at these costs.  

Don’t wait...just ring today with your registration.  As the day is
being catered for we MUST have accurate numbers.
Please forward this on to anyone you may think might be interested.  
THE DAY IS DESIGNED FOR WOMEN, THEIR PARTNERS, CBES, MIDWIVES, DOULAS,
STUDENTS, any interested DOCTOR, AND ADMINISTRATORS!

Hope to see you there!

Cheers
Jo Bainbridge

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RE: [ozmidwifery] SA members

[Dean & Jo]

Don’t ya hate that!  :o)

Jo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:26 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] SA members


Oops, didn't mean to make that a public announcement.

Katrina
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[ozmidwifery] National CS Awareness day 2005

[Dean & Jo]

Could everyone who is doing something for the 2005 National Caesarean
Awareness Day please register you event with CARES SA.  We are long term
planning for some serious funding in the future and need to keep track
of just what is happening and where...what are you doing, who have you
organized to speak, what focus is the day and most importantly are you
adhering to the aims and philosophy set down in 2001.
It is important that even if you are getting together for an informal
chat with some cs/vbac mums to register.  If we can show that there is
continued even growing interest in this event then we can achieve
funding for the a organized national event in the future.
Please contact Jo Bainbridge CARES SA [EMAIL PROTECTED] or phone 08
8388 6918.  Information on the NCAD is on the CARES SA web site:
www.cares-sa.org.au

Cheers and thank you for your support.

Jo

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[ozmidwifery] Interesting VBAC information

[Dean & Jo]

Check out www.maternitywise.org and read the American Academy of Family
Physicians on their vbac stuff...it is really interesting...and not what
you would expect!

Jo

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[ozmidwifery] CARES SA + NCAD

[Dean & Jo]

The full details and registration forms will be made avaliable in the
next few days for the CARES event.  Sorry for the late notice.

Cheers
Jo

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: [MCMgtCte] National Caesraean Awareness Day

[Dean & Jo]

We asked around the nation after the world trade centre disaster and the
unnanomious vote was to keep the NCAD date so we can have something
related to birth rather than death.  Plus the date was initally decided
on in honour of Jackie Mawson from Birthrites to thank her for all that
she has done for CS mums.  It is the date of her first cs.  

Hence the keeping of the date SEPTEMBER 11

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: [MCMgtCte] National Caesraean Awareness Day

[Dean & Jo]

NCAD is always on the 11th of September...have I said August somewhere??
Opps! No I diudnt say what month did I?! Silly me.
Jo
Bainbridge

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jo
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:50 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: [MCMgtCte] National Caesraean Awareness
Day


Hi Denise,
Is that 11th of Aug or 11th of Sept??

I'm discussing organizing something at Birth Central in Sydney with
Renee Adair.

Cheers
Jo Hunter



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RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



have 
you tried maternity wise?
jo

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet 
  FraserSent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 10:16 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] ventouse 
  information
  Hi all,
  can anyone direct me to 
  online resources on the use and risks of ventouse? I have the info from ACE 
  but that's about it really.
  Best,
  J
  Joyous Birth Home Birth 
  Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/
   
  Accessing Artemis Birth 
  Trauma Recoveryhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis
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RE: [ozmidwifery] fetal heart monitoring.

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



Is 
this linked to the lack of midwifery research -due to lack of midwifery research 
funding?
Jo

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sally 
  WestburySent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 9:51 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] fetal 
  heart monitoring.
  
  What I find really 
  interesting is that I can see lots of obstetric guidelines but no midwifery 
  guidelines.
   
  Sally
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RE: [ozmidwifery] fetal heart monitoring.

[Dean & Jo]

Title: Message



going 
by that recomendation, a vbac woman with 1:1 care of a midwife would therefore 
not be forced to have continuous monitoring and should be allowed in the birth 
centre.

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sally 
  WestburySent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:43 AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] fetal heart 
  monitoring.
  
  I’ve been 
  looking at patterns of intermittent auscultation for midwifery 
  practice.
  It seems 
  that little is published outside the NICE guidelines but the ACOG 
  say
  The 
  American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) states that with 
  specific intervals, intermittent auscultation of the FHR is equivalent to 
  continuous EFM in detecting fetal compromise.4 ACOG has 
  recommended a 1:1 nurse-patient ratio if intermittent auscultation is used as 
  the primary technique of FHR surveillance.4 The recommended intermittent 
  auscultation protocol calls for auscultation every 30 minutes for low-risk 
  patients in the active phase of labor and every 15 minutes in the second stage 
  of labor.4 
  Continuous EFM is indicated when abnormalities occur with intermittent 
  auscultation and for use in high-risk patients. Table 1 lists examples of the criteria 
  that have been used to categorize patients as high risk.
  
  http://www.aafp.org/afp/990501ap/2487.html
  Would anyone like to share their 
  guidelines?
   
  Sally 
  Westbury
   
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[ozmidwifery] High babies

[Dean & Jo]

Just a quick question...a vbac mum with her fifth baby (to be 4th vag
birth) is concerned she is 40+3 and babe is still high (according to her
OB).  Is there anything she can do to bring baby down?  As a vbac you
start to fret about things like this especially when you have someone
sharpening their knives in the back ground. Any suggestions?  I have
suggested walking relaxation and rest to see if she loosens up mentally
she might lossen up physically also.

Thanks Jo

PS you cant half tell most of you are all playing in Brisbane!!  The
list is s quiet!

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[ozmidwifery] Just some interesting articles

[Dean & Jo]

Just some interesting articles from the RANZCOG site about home birth
and the such.  The thing that I find amazing is that recently the
article promoting induction at 39 weeks as the best thing to do got
nationla TV coveragebut these articleswell not even a sniff!

http://www.ranzcog.edu.au/publications/o-g_pdfs/O&G-September-2004/OG-Ho
mebirths.pdf

Jo

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RE: [ozmidwifery] List Administration

[Dean & Jo]

Do you still have both active email addresses Tania cause if you do then
you will get two messages instead of one.
Jo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tania
Smallwood
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:19 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] List Administration


Kim

I am still receiving double copies of every post as detailed in a
previous mail to you, any ideas about how to stop this?

Thanks

Tania Smallwood
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kim Hunter
Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2005 3:07 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] List Administration

Hi everyone,

Lately I have been receiving a lot of bounced
emails from list member for very much the same
reason, so I thought this would be good time
to mention a couple of the things that cause
your emails to bounce and not reach the list.

The main problem is that members are trying to
copy their emails to everyone or at least a large
list of people in their address books. It is
important when sending messages to the list that
you do not copy the emails to others at the same
time, as this makes it hard, if not impossible
for the list to process the email.  The other
reason for this it that it unnecessarily broadcasts
individual email addresses to a large number of
people, thus taking away an individuals privacy.'
Bcc doesn't have the same sort of repercussion and
is a much better way of copying people in on emails,
although there is still the possibility of the email
bouncing if you use this method when sending to the
list.

The second problem is yet another unfortunate one,
and that is the use of "H*LP", note I have used
an "*" instead of the "e", thus my email didn't
bounce.  There are special commands used by
majordomo (mailing list software) that mean you
can't use these words when sending messages to the
list, h*lp is a major one and should not be used
without the use of the "*".  The same goes for
s*bscribe and uns*bscribe unless you are actually
undertaking one of these tasks.

Finally, the use of attachment.  Unfortunately, the
list doesn't process attachments particularly well
almost all of these email will bounce.

If you have any questions regarding my email, or any
other mailing list issues please don't hesitate to
contact me.

Regards
Kim







---
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List Administration
Birth International
ACE Graphics and Associates in Childbirth Education

http://www.birthinternational.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Postnatal Distress Handout

[Dean & Jo]

Ursula, 

I have contacted Women’s Health Statewide
and they are looking through their resources. 
You can go to their web site to see their publications to see if they
have it there…you would think a 12 year old document would have been up dated
by now though!  www.whs.sa.gov.au

Let you know tomorrow.

Cheers Jo

 

 

-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ursula and Henk
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 8:27
PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re:
Postnatal Distress Handout

 



HI Jo





Thank you for your help.  I
hope someone remembers them.  It was a great handout and the only copy i
had is gone. 





Ursula







From: Dean
& Jo 





Sent: Thursday,
July 14, 2005 10:53 AM





I will ring Women’s
Health Statewide and ask if they have details. 
The people listed on the back are no known to me currently but I have
only been in Adealide since 1998 so one of the ‘locals’ might know them.  I will hunt around!



Cheers

Jo Bainbridge CD

CARES SA
Maternity Coalition

Bloomin Good Birth

 










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[ozmidwifery] RE:

[Dean & Jo]

I will ring Women’s Health Statewide
and ask if they have details.  The people
listed on the back are no known to me currently but I have only been in Adealide since 1998 so one of the ‘locals’
might know them.  I will hunt around!

Cheers

Jo Bainbridge CD

CARES SA
Maternity Coalition

Bloomin Good Birth

 

-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ursula and Henk
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 8:58
AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: 

 





Hello





 





I run a voluntary support group in
Brisbane for women who have had traumatic births.  I picked up a Postnatal
Distress handout from a Womens Health community centre in Logan and i was
wondering where i could contact the writers of the handout.  The names on
the back of the handout are Candy Hyde(RN) and Diana Maddocks(RN).  The
handout was printed by Adelaide Women's Community health Centre in 1993 and the
address was 64 Pennington Tce, North Adelaide.  





 





Thank you for your time and help.





Ursula 












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[ozmidwifery] 39 week inductions

[Dean & Jo]

What needs to be asked here is just how many still
births are we talking about?  We
(mainly the doctors) PRIDE ourselves on having one of the lowest perinatal mortality
rates in the world and yet they are happy to suggest inductions at 39 weeks for
women to potentially save a few? 
What about the number of babies who suffer fetal distress due to a
failed induction resulting in CS and then the risks associated with that? I
last heard that over 40% of inductions result in CS for failure to progress and
Fetal Distress!!  What about the
links of still birth with women who have had previous cs?  Are they not just inventing another self
perpetuating cycle that places them (the docs) as the saviours of what is nothing
more than iotragenic (sp?) ‘problems’ anyway. 

 

Gr Gr
GR!  What
is BP lending his name to?  Ha she
not heard of the dark side!!!  How sad
for birthing women.  

 

MIDWIVES NEED TO GET IN AND DO
RESEARCH TO COMBAT THIS CRAP!

 

Jo

 








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RE: [ozmidwifery] Risk of uterine rupture + CARES

[Dean & Jo]

That sort of comment can be taken to politicians
and the media if desired: that a professional would use blackmail and/or defamatory
comments to sway your choice.  It
adds to Jenny Gambles comments about OB’s defaming midwives and midwifery
and the shit you would get in if you said it about their profession!  You could even write to the college of
OBs to complain although there would be little they would/could do nut the
state and federal health ministers would not be able to ignore it.  Not what you want to do when you’re
pregnant but if you do act it might stop it from happening to someone else.

Cheers

Jo

 

 

-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Robyn Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005
3:30 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Risk of
uterine rupture + CARES

 

There are a couple more
concerns Joh.  Is your obstetrician being anticompetitive or even
defamatory?  Just worth thinking about. 

 

Warm regards,  
Robyn

 

-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stringybarkers
Sent: Monday, 11 July 2005 1:48 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Risk of
uterine rupture + CARES

 

Dear Joh,

Who is this Ob working for? Is he keeping your best interests at heart? Is he
breaking his Hippocratic Oath (if he still makes such a thing?) that states he
has "To keep the good of the patient as
the highest priority?"

I think it's time to get another obstetrician, if you need one.

Best of luck with your birth,

David
-
David Vernon
Editor
Having a
Great Birth in Australia and Men at Birth
GPO Box 2314
CANBERRA CITY ACT 2601
AUSTRALIA
Tel: 02 6230 2107
Em: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://www.acmi.org.au/greatbirth
-


On 11/07/2005, at 12:57 PM, Nathan and
Joh wrote:

I agree, after
just being told by the obs that he would not see me if I continued with my
independant midwife - to protect himself from potential litigation - I needed
to read this and be reaffirmed that I am in control! Thanks








Living in hope






Joh







 

- Original
Message -
From:
Janet Fraser 
To:
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
Sent:
Saturday, July 09, 2005 4:24 PM
Subject:
Re: [ozmidwifery] Risk of uterine rupture + CARES

Hooray
for Jo!!! You're such an inspiration to me!










Janet










Joyous
Birth











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RE: [ozmidwifery] Message for Jo Pelvic Floor Research - Archive Question

[Dean & Jo]

Here is the abstract for the study but you
might have to get further details regarding the things I mentioned.

Cheers Jo

Caesarean
Section Does Not Reduce Risk of Pelvic Floor Dysfunction 

 



ADELAIDE, Australia (Reuters Health) Dec 01 - Caesarean section only
marginally reduces the risk of pelvic floor dysfunction after delivery compared
with vaginal delivery, according to the results of an Australian study. 

The research team, from Adelaide University, defined pelvic floor
dysfunction as any type of incontinence, symptoms of prolapse,
or previous pelvic floor surgery. 

Lead researcher Dr. Alastair MacLennan and colleagues surveyed 3010 adults aged 15 to 97
years, who did not reside in an institution, and found that while 46.2% of
women had current or past pelvic floor dysfunction, only 11.1% of men did. 

Of particular note, the authors say, was the prevalence of pelvic floor
dysfunction in women when differing modes of delivery were compared. Nulliparity resulted in a 12.4% prevalence of pelvic floor
dysfunction, followed by caesarean section (43%), spontaneous vaginal delivery
(58%), and instrumental delivery (64%). 

The team also found that when spontaneous vaginal delivery and/or
instrumental delivery were compared with caesarean section, only urge
incontinence was associated with a significantly higher prevalence following
vaginal delivery. The data are reported in the December issue of the British Journal of Obstetrics
and Gynaecology. 

In an interview with Reuters Health, Dr. MacLennan
pointed out that "there is a new phenomenon in the last 10 years, of women
wanting caesarean section to prevent future troubles, but 80% of the problems a
woman having a vaginal delivery has, also happen to a women
having a caesarean section." 

He concluded that "women who have had children are four to five
times more likely to be incontinent than a virgin female, and 10 times more
likely than a male. We hadn't realised the incidence
was so high." 

Br J Obstet
Gynaecol 2000;107:1460-1470. 

 

 

-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ceri & Katrina
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 5:34
PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Message for
Jo Pelvic Floor Research - Archive Question

 

Hi Jo
just postimg an email here, not sure if you got my offlist one.
Katrina


Hi Jo

I was going through the archives this morning and came across an old post of
yours that you posted relating to the CS and Tracy Curro on 60 minutes...

You said " an Australian study has shown that lack of
pelvic floor exercises and pregnancy hormones affect the function of the pelvic
floor and CS birth can do nothing to prevent it. "

Do you have the reference for this article? I am looking for research on this
very topic for a speech for uni

Thanks
Katrina


www.niagaraparkshow.com.au



 

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