Re: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
I have the book on my shelf and it is interesting reading. I agree everyone should have a copy. Melissa - Original Message - From: Vedrana Valčić [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 1:18 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought Thank you, Andrea! Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 6:11 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought Hello Vedrana, Marsden has written many articles -we have some on our website that you will find interesting. His book Pursuing the Birth Machine describes how the WHO came around to thinking that the obstetric model of care needed to be changed and the consensus meeting that established the standards of care set down by the WHO. His conversion to midwifery came about primarily through personal contact with midwives, mainly in Europe. As an epidemiologist he could see the sense in what they were saying and he set out to prove this through research etc. It is a great read, and has all the references etc that underpin the recommendations. As the publisher of Pursuing the Birth Machine (it is 10 years old now) we have a few copies left at a very good price. it is a book that everyone should have on their shelf, not only because of its now historical importance but also because the arguments are very eloquently put - a good example of how to tackle these arguments yourselves. More details are available here: http://www.acegraphics.com.au/product/ace/bk200.html Regards, Andrea At 07:52 PM 9/09/2005, you wrote: Marsden Wagner talks convincingly about his conversion. Where can I read about that? Vedrana - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
Title: Bericht Hoi Sue, You are right, but I can understand very much what Michel Odent means. Whywould you put energy in people who don't want to listen? You better can work with people that are already open for the message you have and empower them. I asked in my last contact with Robby Davis-Floyd how we could convince gyns and the medical world that we know what we are doing and that mothers are not in danger in the hands of midwives. She answered: "tell your storys, go eat with them and bring them in contact with your work. " Only speaking at a conference will not make changes, because most things Michel speaks of are so unknown for the obs and gyns that it seems to be chinese. I don't believe anymore that mostobs are open for evidence based (only when it confirms their fears), why do women still give birth on her back with legs in stirrups? Why is it so difficult to have good breastfeeding practic? Why is there so many practices that we know for years that they are harming to mother and child? I can understand that he doesn't want to be anymore in environments that are mostly hostile, you get so tired of it. They don't see us as 'rare creatures', but 'odd creatures' :-) Lieve Lieve Huybrechts vroedvrouw 0477/740853 -Oorspronkelijk bericht-Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Susan CudlippVerzonden: vrijdag 9 september 2005 10:30Aan: midwifery listOnderwerp: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought Following the post from Lynne Staff, and others who talk of supportive (might even say sensible) obstetricians who do practice woman friendly care. Wouldn't it be good if some of these rare creatures came out and spoke to their less supportive colleagues about their methods, beliefs and results. I often wonder why Michel Odent does not speak to them more - he preaches to the converted talking to midwives. Although I remember my colleague asking him this at the Future Birth conference, he answered in that gorgeous accent "Ah well, you know, obstetricians, zey are not ma favourite people" Wouldn't it be great if our obs, who clearly do not know about good birthing practices, listened to those who do, and who can back it up with facts and figures. God knows they don't listen to midwives - maybe one of their own would have more effect? Just wishing Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/93 - Release Date: 8/09/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/93 - Release Date: 8/09/2005
RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
I think that Michel Odent is fed up with making the effort to travel to speak to obs/Gpobs who didnt turn up or who ridiculed him. I have had personal experience of this happening to him here in Australia. He is not speaking to the converted when he speaks to midwives as there are many midwives who are not woman centred but doctor/task centred. We are the handmaidens who carry out the Obs orders and encourage women to listen to the dr just hop up on the bed and let dr examine you, knowing full well that he wants to rupture the membranes or some such thing, who encourage epidurals instead of baths/showers, because it is easier to look after a woman with an epidural. Apologies to all those lovely midwives who are woman centred advocates. MM I often wonder why Michel Odent does not speak to them more - he preaches to the converted talking to midwives. Although I remember my colleague asking him this at the Future Birth conference, he answered in that gorgeous accent Ah well, you know, obstetricians, zey are not ma favourite people Wouldn't it be great if our obs, who clearly do not know about good birthing practices, listened to those who do, and who can back it up with facts and figures. God knows they don't listen to midwives - maybe one of their own would have more effect?
Re: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
Following the post from Lynne Staff, and others who talk of supportive (might even say sensible) obstetricians who do practice woman friendly care. Wouldn't it be good if some of these rare creatures came out and spoke to their less supportive colleagues about their methods, beliefs and results. I feel conflicted about this because they have access to the same information as the rest of us but are obviously motivated by different things (money perhaps???) in the decisions they make for their clients. I think we will have much more chance of educating women to reject their dangerous practices. Women are sometimes more open to reflection on this stuff after a poor experience. I doubt very much that the Obs I hear about whose standard lines are "Do this or your baby will die." have very much invested in providing appropriate social care, yk? Of course anything that works has got to be good! Marsden Wagner talks convincingly about his conversion. J
RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
Marsden Wagner talks convincingly about his conversion. Where can I read about that? Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:34 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought Following the post from Lynne Staff, and others who talk of supportive (might even say sensible) obstetricians who do practice woman friendly care. Wouldn't it be good if some of these rare creatures came out and spoke to their less supportive colleagues about their methods, beliefs and results. I feel conflicted about this because they have access to the same information as the rest of us but are obviously motivated by different things (money perhaps???) in the decisions they make for their clients. I think we will have much more chance of educating women to reject their dangerous practices. Women are sometimes more open to reflection on this stuff after a poor experience. I doubt very much that the Obs I hear about whose standard lines are Do this or your baby will die. have very much invested in providing appropriate social care, yk? Of course anything that works has got to be good! Marsden Wagner talks convincingly about his conversion. J
Re: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
I'll hunt it up for you. I hope I wasn't dreaming! J - Original Message - From: Vedrana Valčić To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:52 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought Marsden Wagner talks convincingly about his conversion. Where can I read about that? Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Janet FraserSent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:34 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought Following the post from Lynne Staff, and others who talk of supportive (might even say sensible) obstetricians who do practice woman friendly care. Wouldn't it be good if some of these rare creatures came out and spoke to their less supportive colleagues about their methods, beliefs and results. I feel conflicted about this because they have access to the same information as the rest of us but are obviously motivated by different things (money perhaps???) in the decisions they make for their clients. I think we will have much more chance of educating women to reject their dangerous practices. Women are sometimes more open to reflection on this stuff after a poor experience. I doubt very much that the Obs I hear about whose standard lines are "Do this or your baby will die." have very much invested in providing appropriate social care, yk? Of course anything that works has got to be good! Marsden Wagner talks convincingly about his conversion. J
Re: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
Good points Mary and Janet. I asked one of of our obs if they would like to attend the last conference in Perth - they had not even heard of Michel Odent! Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought Following the post from Lynne Staff, and others who talk of supportive (might even say sensible) obstetricians who do practice woman friendly care. Wouldn't it be good if some of these rare creatures came out and spoke to their less supportive colleagues about their methods, beliefs and results. I feel conflicted about this because they have access to the same information as the rest of us but are obviously motivated by different things (money perhaps???) in the decisions they make for their clients. I think we will have much more chance of educating women to reject their dangerous practices. Women are sometimes more open to reflection on this stuff after a poor experience. I doubt very much that the Obs I hear about whose standard lines are "Do this or your baby will die." have very much invested in providing appropriate social care, yk? Of course anything that works has got to be good! Marsden Wagner talks convincingly about his conversion. J No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/93 - Release Date: 8/09/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
Hi Vedrana, It is in his book 'The Birth Machine' I think. Ping
Re: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
I think you're right, Ping. J - Original Message - From: Ping Bullock (G) To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought Hi Vedrana, It is in his book 'The Birth Machine' I think. Ping
RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
Hello Vedrana, Marsden has written many articles -we have some on our website that you will find interesting. His book Pursuing the Birth Machine describes how the WHO came around to thinking that the obstetric model of care needed to be changed and the consensus meeting that established the standards of care set down by the WHO. His conversion to midwifery came about primarily through personal contact with midwives, mainly in Europe. As an epidemiologist he could see the sense in what they were saying and he set out to prove this through research etc. It is a great read, and has all the references etc that underpin the recommendations. As the publisher of Pursuing the Birth Machine (it is 10 years old now) we have a few copies left at a very good price. it is a book that everyone should have on their shelf, not only because of its now historical importance but also because the arguments are very eloquently put - a good example of how to tackle these arguments yourselves. More details are available here: http://www.acegraphics.com.au/product/ace/bk200.html Regards, Andrea At 07:52 PM 9/09/2005, you wrote: Marsden Wagner talks convincingly about his conversion. Where can I read about that? Vedrana - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
Thank you, Andrea! Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 6:11 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought Hello Vedrana, Marsden has written many articles -we have some on our website that you will find interesting. His book Pursuing the Birth Machine describes how the WHO came around to thinking that the obstetric model of care needed to be changed and the consensus meeting that established the standards of care set down by the WHO. His conversion to midwifery came about primarily through personal contact with midwives, mainly in Europe. As an epidemiologist he could see the sense in what they were saying and he set out to prove this through research etc. It is a great read, and has all the references etc that underpin the recommendations. As the publisher of Pursuing the Birth Machine (it is 10 years old now) we have a few copies left at a very good price. it is a book that everyone should have on their shelf, not only because of its now historical importance but also because the arguments are very eloquently put - a good example of how to tackle these arguments yourselves. More details are available here: http://www.acegraphics.com.au/product/ace/bk200.html Regards, Andrea At 07:52 PM 9/09/2005, you wrote: Marsden Wagner talks convincingly about his conversion. Where can I read about that? Vedrana - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] just a thought
Exactly Gloria, that was my point, the ageing effect it has on midwives. Sometimes after these incidents when you cant sleep I find talking about it to listeners out there helps. Not that you really want an answer it just gets it off my ample chest and then I can let it go. Andrea On 17/07/2005, at 5:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I sure can relate, Andrea. I have three tricks for getting a nice big shoulder moving rush of hormones. 1 get the woman to take a big drink of water through a bendy straw (this has the same effect as giving your parched house plants a nice quaff of water) 2. have her lover stimulate her nipples and 3. work on her uterine points on her ankles (reflexology). The babies seem to withstand those purple head waiting periods quite well but it produces premature aging for the birth attendants. Gloria Quoting Andrea Quanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED]: just recently I have been with several women at birth who have birthed the head and then the contractions have gone walk about. Now I am a very patient person at this time but have had one particular one where the baby was that lovely shade of navy that they go that even made my adrenalin levels rise (more than usual). Last night the baby maintained a good colour but after waiting at lesast five minutes for the next contraction it was not a very effective one and the baby decided to do a little dance and squirm but not move forward. The shoulders definately were not stuck I just dont think it got the anterior shoulder onto the pubic bone to act as a fulcrom to pivot on. I was a bit sceptical about how long it might be till the next contraction but with encourgaement Mum was able to move a bit and use enough effort to get her out. Of course she cried straight away but I feel like I have another grey hair. Question: how long is the longest people have had to wait for the next contraction at this stage? Andrea Q -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] just a thought
And letting go is so vital when we face these slightly unusual situations frequently. Last evening a woman really had no contractions to speak of at all throughout her whole second stage of labour, she didn't even really have any urges to push, but did so on the behest of her accoucheur. Eventually a very big crown emerges, next contraction (push) a face and then everything stops yet again. I. am looking at the clock as this babe is making breathing actions and five minutes have passed. No contractions, no colour change but I am starting to think that maybe this baby- making internal manouvres and attempting to breathe is trying to tell us something. The accoucheur must have been thinking the same and encouraged some active pushing. Baby was born 6 minutes after head emerged with tight cord wrapped around its body, true knot and lots of fresh mec following the body. Flaccid, initial apgar 6. Responded OK with a tactile stimulation of drying and a bit of free flow O2 and within 10 mins was cooing at mum. Weighed in at 4490. Thought this case was interesting in light of this thread Cheers Alesa Exactly Gloria, that was my point, the ageing effect it has on midwives. Sometimes after these incidents when you cant sleep I find talking about it to listeners out there helps. Not that you really want an answer it just gets it off my ample chest and then I can let it go. Andrea -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] just a thought
I sure can relate, Andrea. I have three tricks for getting a nice big shoulder moving rush of hormones. 1 get the woman to take a big drink of water through a bendy straw (this has the same effect as giving your parched house plants a nice quaff of water) 2. have her lover stimulate her nipples and 3. work on her uterine points on her ankles (reflexology). The babies seem to withstand those purple head waiting periods quite well but it produces premature aging for the birth attendants. Gloria Quoting Andrea Quanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED]: just recently I have been with several women at birth who have birthed the head and then the contractions have gone walk about. Now I am a very patient person at this time but have had one particular one where the baby was that lovely shade of navy that they go that even made my adrenalin levels rise (more than usual). Last night the baby maintained a good colour but after waiting at lesast five minutes for the next contraction it was not a very effective one and the baby decided to do a little dance and squirm but not move forward. The shoulders definately were not stuck I just dont think it got the anterior shoulder onto the pubic bone to act as a fulcrom to pivot on. I was a bit sceptical about how long it might be till the next contraction but with encourgaement Mum was able to move a bit and use enough effort to get her out. Of course she cried straight away but I feel like I have another grey hair. Question: how long is the longest people have had to wait for the next contraction at this stage? Andrea Q -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] just a thought
Just this week I had a primip who only had 5-7 minutely contractions for the last hours before her baby was born. After the baby was born we waited 7 minutes for the next contraction with which the baby was born. It was a long long long long 7 minutes. I was tempted to do something!! Then she pushed the baby was born. The baby breathed beautiful. I breathed again! It reminded me so much of the birth of my second child. I remember the midwife calmly telling me.. one more push and your baby will be born and me thinking... that feels so much better.. I'm not in a hurry. I'm sure that I gave my poor midwife a few grey hair that day 13 years ago!! Love Sally Westbury -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] just a thought
This has reminded me of a very stressful incident I had a couple of years ago. I was relieving in a busy horrible birth suite and had a woman in 2nd stage with mec. liquor. The head was born and then nothing - no contractions for about 4 minutes. Finally a contraction came but the woman's pushing wasn't making any progress with getting the shoulders out. The senior midwife absolutely panicked me and said, hurry up and get this baby out - you only have 5 minutes. She took over and yelled at the woman to push as hard as she could anyway, despite the contraction petering out. She managed to get the baby out with these efforts and without waiting for another contraction.I was absolutely demoralised and lost a lot of confidence in my own ability after that. I hadn't felt like it was THAT long and can remember times in the past when it has taken a couple of contractions after the head was born for the shoulders to come out with no ill effects to the baby As long the foetal heart was OK - we waited for the next contraction. There had been no other signs of foetal distress i.e. heart beat was perfect throughout labour. (The baby required some oxygen but was quick to recover). I also felt as though I had failed the mother. We had built up a really good rapport throughout the labour which was an achievement as when I first arrived she seemed very anxious and defensive. By the time the baby was born she was a mental wreck. It might be worth researching this topic on the Cochrane Library website. Also looking forward to hearing stories from the rest of the list. Helen - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:26 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] just a thought just recently I have been with several women at birth who have birthed the head and then the contractions have gone walk about. Now I am a very patient person at this time but have had one particular one where the baby was that lovely shade of navy that they go that even made my adrenalin levels rise (more than usual). Last night the baby maintained a good colour but after waiting at lesast five minutes for the next contraction it was not a very effective one and the baby decided to do a little dance and squirm but not move forward. The shoulders definately were not stuck I just dont think it got the anterior shoulder onto the pubic bone to act as a fulcrom to pivot on. I was a bit sceptical about how long it might be till the next contraction but with encourgaement Mum was able to move a bit and use enough effort to get her out. Of course she cried straight away but I feel like I have another grey hair. Question: how long is the longest people have had to wait for the next contraction at this stage? Andrea Q -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. __ NOD32 1.1170 (20050715) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] just a thought
I think it has to be stand of the moon :-)) I also had this week a similar situation, I helped the shoulders a little bit because there was a loose cord around the neck that I switched over the head, but the cord was pranged between the baby and the pelvis. There was no heartbeat to feel in the cord and I decided to help the baby out. It was not a matter of a large baby or some shoulderdystocia, just no more contraction. I think that when the cord is still in and not around the neck, you could safely wait. But to say, my head around is all white hairs :-))) Lieve Lieve Huybrechts vroedvrouw 0477/740853 -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Sally Westbury Verzonden: zondag 17 juli 2005 10:06 Aan: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Onderwerp: RE: [ozmidwifery] just a thought Just this week I had a primip who only had 5-7 minutely contractions for the last hours before her baby was born. After the baby was born we waited 7 minutes for the next contraction with which the baby was born. It was a long long long long 7 minutes. I was tempted to do something!! Then she pushed the baby was born. The baby breathed beautiful. I breathed again! It reminded me so much of the birth of my second child. I remember the midwife calmly telling me.. one more push and your baby will be born and me thinking... that feels so much better.. I'm not in a hurry. I'm sure that I gave my poor midwife a few grey hair that day 13 years ago!! Love Sally Westbury -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.0/50 - Release Date: 16/07/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.0/50 - Release Date: 16/07/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] just a thought
This has got me thinking...my first son was born in water, and his head was born 7 minutes before the rest of his body followed. We have excellent video of his birth, it was broad daylight, and his colour was great for the whole time. I'm not sure if my midwife was worried at the time, if she was, she sure didn't show it! Admittedly he was a bit of a tight fit, at 4.5 kgs, but I'm so glad she didn't try and force him out sooner, or those very broad shoulders just might have become wedged, knowing what I do now... I've since been at lots of water births, and seeing a baby's head, pink or purple doesn't worry me too much, it's the white ones that scare me. Thankfully only one of those so far...but it's not uncommon I think for there to be that break when the head is born. Is this something that is more specific to birth in water does everyone think? I too remember like Sally, thinking, ahhh, that was hard work, The land births I've been at have all been much more of a fluid motion, baby crowns and rest of body follows more quickly. The other thing I've seen a lot in water is the baby stopping at the hips,having a big moro reflex under the water and then continuing to birth the buttocks and legs. Anyone else see this much? Sorry for the ramblings, just got me thinking about all that stuff... Tania x -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] just a thought
Oh Tania, your post bought tears to my eyes. My 3rd babe was a water birth..as were my others. I had a very private labour, no VEs etc. When the moment of bith came..(a feeling of great physical relief with my first 2 girls.. after the head, you understand) This little one, her head with the first contraction, shoulders, torso..then nothingseemed like HOURS to me.it was horrendous, I could feel her wriggling and kicking, then when the next contraction finally arrived, she shot out. When I finally found her in the water, she had a red ring around her waist, a bit like a belt, where she had hung around half in half out. I have great births, but those minutes, where the longest of my life... Lisax - Original Message - From: Tania Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:02 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] just a thought This has got me thinking...my first son was born in water, and his head was born 7 minutes before the rest of his body followed. We have excellent video of his birth, it was broad daylight, and his colour was great for the whole time. I'm not sure if my midwife was worried at the time, if she was, she sure didn't show it! Admittedly he was a bit of a tight fit, at 4.5 kgs, but I'm so glad she didn't try and force him out sooner, or those very broad shoulders just might have become wedged, knowing what I do now... I've since been at lots of water births, and seeing a baby's head, pink or purple doesn't worry me too much, it's the white ones that scare me. Thankfully only one of those so far...but it's not uncommon I think for there to be that break when the head is born. Is this something that is more specific to birth in water does everyone think? I too remember like Sally, thinking, ahhh, that was hard work, The land births I've been at have all been much more of a fluid motion, baby crowns and rest of body follows more quickly. The other thing I've seen a lot in water is the baby stopping at the hips,having a big moro reflex under the water and then continuing to birth the buttocks and legs. Anyone else see this much? Sorry for the ramblings, just got me thinking about all that stuff... Tania x -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] just a thought
Dear Helen I was physically and verbally abused by staff in a NSW labour ward when a baby was not born on the next contraction after the head. It matter not what I said about there being no signs of shoulder dystocia The woman was also physically abused in that she was turned over and had a macRoberts manouvre done and the baby pulled out pink and Apgars 8,9. No staff supported me nor would that discuss any thing else as valid but it is a sign of Mild Shoulder Dystocia which is to be mark on the Birth Noticifation forms. It was the beginning of the end for me working hospital!! Denise Hynd Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. - Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] just a thought This has reminded me of a very stressful incident I had a couple of years ago. I was relieving in a busy horrible birth suite and had a woman in 2nd stage with mec. liquor. The head was born and then nothing - no contractions for about 4 minutes. Finally a contraction came but the woman's pushing wasn't making any progress with getting the shoulders out. The senior midwife absolutely panicked me and said, hurry up and get this baby out - you only have 5 minutes. She took over and yelled at the woman to push as hard as she could anyway, despite the contraction petering out. She managed to get the baby out with these efforts and without waiting for another contraction.I was absolutely demoralised and lost a lot of confidence in my own ability after that. I hadn't felt like it was THAT long and can remember times in the past when it has taken a couple of contractions after the head was born for the shoulders to come out with no ill effects to the baby As long the foetal heart was OK - we waited for the next contraction. There had been no other signs of foetal distress i.e. heart beat was perfect throughout labour. (The baby required some oxygen but was quick to recover). I also felt as though I had failed the mother. We had built up a really good rapport throughout the labour which was an achievement as when I first arrived she seemed very anxious and defensive. By the time the baby was born she was a mental wreck. It might be worth researching this topic on the Cochrane Library website. Also looking forward to hearing stories from the rest of the list. Helen - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:26 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] just a thought just recently I have been with several women at birth who have birthed the head and then the contractions have gone walk about. Now I am a very patient person at this time but have had one particular one where the baby was that lovely shade of navy that they go that even made my adrenalin levels rise (more than usual). Last night the baby maintained a good colour but after waiting at lesast five minutes for the next contraction it was not a very effective one and the baby decided to do a little dance and squirm but not move forward. The shoulders definately were not stuck I just dont think it got the anterior shoulder onto the pubic bone to act as a fulcrom to pivot on. I was a bit sceptical about how long it might be till the next contraction but with encourgaement Mum was able to move a bit and use enough effort to get her out. Of course she cried straight away but I feel like I have another grey hair. Question: how long is the longest people have had to wait for the next contraction at this stage? Andrea Q -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. __ NOD32 1.1170 (20050715) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.13/47 - Release Date: 12/07/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] just a thought - stickers for ICM
I think the sticker is a good idea, when i went to Oslo ICM there was an impromtu meeting of all midwives who did homebirths. We gathered together in one of the rooms and discussed where we were from and what our access for women having homebirth was. I met two Midwives from Holland and got a lift back to Amsterdam and saw there practice clinic. it was such a good connecting thing to do . maybe a meet the Ozmidders lunchcould be organised ? I am so looking forward to seeing everyone there lol Marijke - Original Message - From: Robyn Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 6:32 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] just a thought - stickers for ICM An OZMIDWIFERY STICKER attached to the Australian Akubara Hats would stand out in the crowd. Robyn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Friday, 1 July 2005 3:51 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] just a thought - stickers for ICM Hi Andrea Q, Yes, great idea! I'll get something organised - perhaps a star that could go on the name tags (you are all definitely gold star people) or something similar - come to the stand when you get there and I will make sure that you get a sticker. It will be fun to see how many of us are there...! Cheers Andrea R At 01:17 PM 1/07/2005, you wrote: Andrea R Any chance of some 'oz midwifery' stickers that list members could collect from you and put on our name tags at ICM so we can recognise and chat with each other Andrea Q -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.1/28 - Release Date: 24/06/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] just a thought - stickers for ICM
Hello Robyn, We'll have the stickers - you can put them anywhere appropriate/practical. Not everyone will have the Akubras... See you in Brisbane, Andrea At 07:02 PM 1/07/2005, you wrote: An OZMIDWIFERY STICKER attached to the Australian Akubara Hats would stand out in the crowd. Robyn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Friday, 1 July 2005 3:51 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] just a thought - stickers for ICM Hi Andrea Q, Yes, great idea! I'll get something organised - perhaps a star that could go on the name tags (you are all definitely gold star people) or something similar - come to the stand when you get there and I will make sure that you get a sticker. It will be fun to see how many of us are there...! Cheers Andrea R At 01:17 PM 1/07/2005, you wrote: Andrea R Any chance of some 'oz midwifery' stickers that list members could collect from you and put on our name tags at ICM so we can recognise and chat with each other Andrea Q -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] just a thought - stickers for ICM
An OZMIDWIFERY STICKER attached to the Australian Akubara Hats would stand out in the crowd. Robyn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Friday, 1 July 2005 3:51 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] just a thought - stickers for ICM Hi Andrea Q, Yes, great idea! I'll get something organised - perhaps a star that could go on the name tags (you are all definitely gold star people) or something similar - come to the stand when you get there and I will make sure that you get a sticker. It will be fun to see how many of us are there...! Cheers Andrea R At 01:17 PM 1/07/2005, you wrote: Andrea R Any chance of some 'oz midwifery' stickers that list members could collect from you and put on our name tags at ICM so we can recognise and chat with each other Andrea Q -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] just a thought - stickers for ICM
Hi Andrea Q, Yes, great idea! I'll get something organised - perhaps a star that could go on the name tags (you are all definitely gold star people) or something similar - come to the stand when you get there and I will make sure that you get a sticker. It will be fun to see how many of us are there...! Cheers Andrea R At 01:17 PM 1/07/2005, you wrote: Andrea R Any chance of some 'oz midwifery' stickers that list members could collect from you and put on our name tags at ICM so we can recognise and chat with each other Andrea Q -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
