Re: Another Pentax Story

[John Francis]

On Sun, Nov 05, 2006 at 06:30:08PM -0800, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
> True, as far as it goes.  However, it's terribly inconvenient and downright
> annoying if a photographer can't obtain the desired results.  Personally, I
> don't care if I can quickly get crap out to the internet.  There are pics I
> walk away from because I know that I can't make a decent photo from the
> scene. Is it me or is it digital or is it Pentax digital?
> 
> Shel

If you know you could get the result you wanted with film, but
you elect not to carry a film camera, then it's you; choosing
to carry only digital is like going out with only ISO 100-400
film in your bag.  It works for many things, but there are going
to be situations where you just have to give up on the shot.

Personally I find the results I get, shooting mainly in colour,
are no worse than what I got with Fuji 1600 colour film.  But
I wouldn't suggest that digital comes anywhere near replacing
high-speed B&W film.  Although, as I noted in another post, I
really don't like 35mm for that, either - I'm not a big fan of
excessively grainy images.


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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Kostas Kavoussanakis]

On Sun, 5 Nov 2006, William Robb wrote:

>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Shel Belinkoff"
> Subject: Re: Another Pentax Story
>
>
>> Well, I can't shoot underexposed to get darker images and darker 
>> shadows as I've done in the past without incurring gobs of noise 
>> that ruin the image.
>
> A couple of the people I hang with, one is a third generation portrait
> guy, have mentioned that digital seems to fall apart somewhere around
> Zone III.
> They note both excessive noise and a loss of shadow detail due to
> blocking up.

Without first-hand experience[1], I think that we are confusing 
exposure and outcome. Yep, shoot to the right to include a lot of 
information on the digital negative. Then post-process as you like to 
produce the image that you prefer.

Sure, you won't get the character of Tri-X pushed that many then 
developed in agitated urine or whatever.

Kostas
[1] That's exactly the thing, I still shoot film because I prefer to 
have someone else do all these things for me.

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Re: PESO - Walkway

[mike wilson]

Interesting steps.  I like how it takes a few seconds to realise that they are 
not regularly spaced.  They look purpose-built for a bit of piano shifting..
> 
> From: "Shel Belinkoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/11/06 Mon AM 12:46:04 GMT
> To: "PDML" 
> Subject: PESO - Walkway
> 
> Seen on a short walk around the neighborhood today.
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~my-pics/walkway.html
> 
> istDS, K24/2.8, f11, 1/250, ISO 200, conversion using DHS technique in
> Photoshop
> 
> Hope you enjoy it 
> 
> Shel
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: PESO - The Town Post Office

[Cotty]

On 6/11/06, David Savage, discombobulated, unleashed:

>You reckon that's luxurious? Try this.
>
> From the time I start my car to when my bum hits my chair at work takes 20 
>minutes.
>
>That includes 5 minutes to warm up the engine and hitting red lights all 
>the way.

Distance1/4 of a mile. They're very relaxed about everything in N
Z.  Hippies.


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Re: PESO - The Town Post Office

[Cotty]

On 6/11/06, Cotty, discombobulated, unleashed:

>> From the time I start my car to when my bum hits my chair at work takes 20 
>>minutes.
>>
>>That includes 5 minutes to warm up the engine and hitting red lights all 
>>the way.
>
>Distance1/4 of a mile. They're very relaxed about everything in N
>Z.  Hippies.

Sorry Dave in Au, that was aimed at Dave Mann in NZ - I got discombobulated!

The slur still stands though ;-)

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Re: Waiting For Pentax Products

[Thibouille]

indeed mdr is the correct short word for "mort de rire" ;)
strangely we use lol/LOL as well.. even those supposedly allergic to
english which is a bit funny ;)

Le 03/11/06, Christian<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :
> MdR ? :-)
>
> Christian
>
> Patrice LACOUTURE (GMail) wrote:
> > Mort de rire!
> >
> >
> > (The French for LOL, litterally "laughing to death")
> > Patrice
> >
> > Tom C a écrit :
> >
> >>LOL!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Tom C.
>
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Re: Are you satisfied with the DA 50-200mm?

[Thibouille]

Not finished my tests but it looks very good for the price.

2006/11/2, Huolin Xin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I really don't like this lens. At 200mm end, though F5.6 is usable, stopping
> down to f8,f9,f10,f11 doesn't really improve the sharpness. However, my FA
> 100-300mm does a much better job at 300mm end. The IQ is really bad when it
> is wide open. However, when you stop down to f9-f13, it becomes really sharp
> and the bokeh is also good. I really like FA 100-300mm over the DA 50-200mm.
>
> Does anyone agree with me?
>
>
>
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Re: Pentax's Tatamiya Interview Part II, #4

[Thibouille]

Could someone provide me with the forst part (or link to the archive
with correct post)?
I'm just back from holliday, read part 2 easily but can't find part
one on the mail I received.

BTW, a lot  of thanks to Ken: tell me if ya come to Belgium any day I
owe you a couple beers :)

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Re: Ken Takeshita is:

[Thibouille]

I'm selling mine BTW ;)

2006/11/2, cbwaters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> The fricken MAN!
>
> Thanks so much for those translations.  I can't remember another instance in
> all the time I've been reading the list that we had so much "horses mouth"
> information.
>
> Thanks a ton.
>
> Now, somebody buy my *ist D so I can buy this cool camera
>
> Cory
>
>
>
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Re: PESO - The Town Post Office

[David Savage]

On 11/6/06, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 6/11/06, Cotty, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
> >> From the time I start my car to when my bum hits my chair at work takes 20
> >>minutes.
> >>
> >>That includes 5 minutes to warm up the engine and hitting red lights all
> >>the way.
> >
> >Distance1/4 of a mile. They're very relaxed about everything in N
> >Z.  Hippies.
>
> Sorry Dave in Au, that was aimed at Dave Mann in NZ - I got discombobulated!
>
> The slur still stands though ;-)

Har!

:-)

Dave (Au)

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Re: Pentax's Tatamiya Interview Part II, #4

[David Savage]

On 11/6/06, Thibouille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Could someone provide me with the forst part (or link to the archive
> with correct post)?
> I'm just back from holliday, read part 2 easily but can't find part
> one on the mail I received.

Here's the link to part 1 in the archive:



Dave (Au)

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Re: Another Pentax Story

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Kostas Kavoussanakis"
Subject: Re: Another Pentax Story



>>
>>> Well, I can't shoot underexposed to get darker images and darker
>>> shadows as I've done in the past without incurring gobs of noise
>>> that ruin the image.
>>
>> A couple of the people I hang with, one is a third generation 
>> portrait
>> guy, have mentioned that digital seems to fall apart somewhere around
>> Zone III.
>> They note both excessive noise and a loss of shadow detail due to
>> blocking up.
>
> Without first-hand experience[1], I think that we are confusing
> exposure and outcome. Yep, shoot to the right to include a lot of
> information on the digital negative. Then post-process as you like to
> produce the image that you prefer.
>

Exposure controls outcome. If you overexpose digital (I presume this is 
what you mean by shoot to the right), then you will likely blow out 
highlights, and still have the problem of noisy, blocked up shadows.

William Robb 



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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Shel Belinkoff]

John, I like to believe that I could get the results that I want, but I
don't know if that's really correct.  So I keep trying, study a bit, read,
look at other pics, etc.  I've not been shooting digital as much as others
here, and many of my subjects, and the results I want when photographing
them, are often quite different than what is posted here.  I could probably
grab a film camera and take it along with the digi, shoot similar scenes,
and see how the results compare. OTOH, I really want to get better results
with the DSLR, and if I keep falling back on film it may be self defeating.
So, for a while at least, I'll struggle along, maybe see about getting a
mentor, and see what's possible.  Bruce suggested trying other editing
software just because different software may allow for different results. 
Once I get settled here in the new place I may do just that.  But right now
I'm still a novice, just learning and struggling.  I don't think I've seen
anything here that reflects the results I want, although I have read
comments suggesting that such results are either not possible or damned
difficult to obtain.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: John Francis 

> If you know you could get the result you wanted with film, but
> you elect not to carry a film camera, then it's you; choosing
> to carry only digital is like going out with only ISO 100-400
> film in your bag.  It works for many things, but there are going
> to be situations where you just have to give up on the shot.
>
> Personally I find the results I get, shooting mainly in colour,
> are no worse than what I got with Fuji 1600 colour film.  But
> I wouldn't suggest that digital comes anywhere near replacing
> high-speed B&W film.  Although, as I noted in another post, I
> really don't like 35mm for that, either - I'm not a big fan of
> excessively grainy images.



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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Shel Belinkoff]

I posted a shot here a while back - Bette's Diner - in which I shot so far
to the right to the right that I literally had to paint in some highlight
details, yet the darker areas of the photo were still very noisy. This may
have been the result of having to shoot @ 1600 ISO, but, as has been said,
that area in Zones 1,2,and 3 were a bit of a mess.  Maybe using noise
reduction software is a solution.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: William Robb 

> From: "Kostas Kavoussanakis"
> Subject: Re: Another Pentax Story

> > Without first-hand experience[1], I think that we are confusing
> > exposure and outcome. Yep, shoot to the right to include a lot of
> > information on the digital negative. Then post-process as you like to
> > produce the image that you prefer.
> >
>
> Exposure controls outcome. If you overexpose digital (I presume this is 
> what you mean by shoot to the right), then you will likely blow out 
> highlights, and still have the problem of noisy, blocked up shadows.



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Re: PESO - Overcast Afternoon View

[Boros Attila]

Hello Shel,

Thursday, November 2, 2006, 3:26:04 AM, you wrote:

SB> I just moved.  What a hassle.
I went through that just a couple of months ago, it's good when it's
over.

SB> http://home.earthlink.net/~my-pics/view.html
Nice view. Looks like your new neighborhood has many interesting photo
opportunities. I hope you will enjoy it:)

Attila



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Re: PESO - Walkway

[Shel Belinkoff]

Nothing.  They are lights, and you may be seeing the grilles that go over
the lenses.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Boros Attila 

> http://home.earthlink.net/~my-pics/walkway.html

> Interesting patterns. The little metal plates caught my eye. What is
> written on them?



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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Kostas Kavoussanakis]

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, Shel Belinkoff wrote:

> I posted a shot here a while back - Bette's Diner - in which I shot so far
> to the right to the right that I literally had to paint in some highlight
> details, yet the darker areas of the photo were still very noisy. This may
> have been the result of having to shoot @ 1600 ISO, but, as has been said,
> that area in Zones 1,2,and 3 were a bit of a mess.  Maybe using noise
> reduction software is a solution.

This?

http://www.mail-archive.com/pdml@pdml.net/msg337082.html

Can't access the picture (the apostrophe?).

Kostas

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Re: PAW 2006 - 32 - GDG

[frank theriault]

On 11/3/06, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I can't draw worth a damn. That's why I'm a photographer.

Mark!

Oh, never mind...

;-)

-frank

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Re: Pentax's Tatamiya Interview Part II, #1

[Martin Trautmann]

On 2006-11-01 19:25, K.Takeshita wrote:
> Q; How about the weather proofing of lenses?
> A: We cannot claim weather-proof for the current line up of lenses. However,
> as we expressed in the case of LX, which was dust sealed, it is difficult
> for water to seep into the lens because of its construction, i.e., the
> combination of tight cylindrical tubes.  While it depends on the severity of
> the environment, in most cases, there should be no major concerns. In the
> case of the latest DA lenses, as they have no aperture rings, it is one less
> negative element for the water seeping possibility.
> The lenses which we can formally claim as water-proof are those 3 DA* lenses
> that we announced in Photokina this year.

Do those new lenses have a fixed outer size?

Otherwise every zoom movement will suck in some air, causing changing
humidity and condensation inside.

However, I guess there's no major 'fog' problems within lenses and
sensors?

- Martin

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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Shel Belinkoff]

I took the pic down but, for you, have just put it up again.  You can see
all the noise in the dark apron and pants of the waitress, and the
muddiness in Zones 1,2, and perhaps 3.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ebay-pics/bkfast_at_bette's.html

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Kostas Kavoussanakis <

> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
>
> > I posted a shot here a while back - 
> > Bette's Diner - in which I shot so far
> > to the right to the right that I literally 
> > had to paint in some highlight
> > details, yet the darker areas of the 
> > photo were still very noisy. This may
> > have been the result of having to shoot 
> > @ 1600 ISO, but, as has been said,
> > that area in Zones 1,2,and 3 were a 
> > bit of a mess.  Maybe using noise
> > reduction software is a solution.
>
> This?
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/pdml@pdml.net/msg337082.html
>
> Can't access the picture (the apostrophe?).



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Re: PESO: Kitten

[Toine]

Hmm, maybe the warning in the pdml faq about posting cat pictures is for real...
Apparently this little kitten is ignored. My wife heard about this and
now I'm forced to confirm to pdml regulations :)

Toine

> We are preparing for the arrival of two new kittens in our home.
> Here's one of them:

http://leende.net/peso/kitten.htm
>
> Toine
>

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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Kostas Kavoussanakis]

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, Shel Belinkoff wrote:

> I took the pic down but, for you, have just put it up again.  You can see
> all the noise in the dark apron and pants of the waitress, and the
> muddiness in Zones 1,2, and perhaps 3.
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~ebay-pics/bkfast_at_bette's.html

Thanks Shel, I see what you are saying. Did you shoot it jpg? Is the 
RAW somewhere and would you consider posting it for people to 
experiment? I am curious. Coming from the "please do it for me, guv" 
crowd, an idea of what you might ask "trained personnel" could be a 
nice experiment (or so I think :-)).

Kostas

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RE: eekBay Wow!

[Michael Perham]

Don Sanderson wrote:

>Nice stuff but Holy Cow:
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320043421841

The inclusion of the "rare" 40mm pancake lens probably spiked the price
a bit, though the 35mm f/2.0 is probably worth more, both is terms of
price and quality.

I have two 40mm pancake lenses; I would sell them but they don't seem to be
fetching much these days!
Mike.



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Luminence Smoothing and Color Noise Reduction

[Shel Belinkoff]

Is it possible to use these features locally in PS CS (such as in specific
shadow areas) or must the adjustments be made to the entire photo?


Shel




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Re: PESO: Kitten

[Shel Belinkoff]

Hi, I think it's a great little snap.  The kitty looks so soft and
wonderfully open.  I thought I'd commented on the shot earlier ...

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Toine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Date: 11/6/2006 7:45:32 AM
> Subject: Re: PESO: Kitten
>
> Hmm, maybe the warning in the pdml faq about posting cat pictures is for
real...
> Apparently this little kitten is ignored. My wife heard about this and
> now I'm forced to confirm to pdml regulations :)
>
> Toine
>
> > We are preparing for the arrival of two new kittens in our home.
> > Here's one of them:
>
> http://leende.net/peso/kitten.htm
> >
> > Toine
> >
>
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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Shel Belinkoff]

RAW ... I never shoot JPEG except for an occasional goofy snap.

I'll see about posting a RAW file - it'll certainly be DNG if I do put it
up.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Kostas Kavoussanakis 

> Shel Belinkoff wrote:
>
> > I took the pic down but, for you, have just put it up again.  You can
see
> > all the noise in the dark apron and pants of the waitress, and the
> > muddiness in Zones 1,2, and perhaps 3.
> >
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~ebay-pics/bkfast_at_bette's.html
>
> Thanks Shel, I see what you are saying. Did you shoot it jpg? Is the 
> RAW somewhere and would you consider posting it for people to 
> experiment? I am curious. Coming from the "please do it for me, guv" 
> crowd, an idea of what you might ask "trained personnel" could be a 
> nice experiment (or so I think :-)).



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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Paul Stenquist]

That's much better than you could ever achieve with ISO 1600 color  
film. In fact, it's an excellent shot. The lack of perfection is part  
of its appeal. In my opinion, to achieve something better in terms of  
rendering would require medium format BW.
On Nov 6, 2006, at 10:00 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote:

> I took the pic down but, for you, have just put it up again.  You  
> can see
> all the noise in the dark apron and pants of the waitress, and the
> muddiness in Zones 1,2, and perhaps 3.
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~ebay-pics/bkfast_at_bette's.html
>
> Shel
>
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Kostas Kavoussanakis <
>
>> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
>>
>>> I posted a shot here a while back -
>>> Bette's Diner - in which I shot so far
>>> to the right to the right that I literally
>>> had to paint in some highlight
>>> details, yet the darker areas of the
>>> photo were still very noisy. This may
>>> have been the result of having to shoot
>>> @ 1600 ISO, but, as has been said,
>>> that area in Zones 1,2,and 3 were a
>>> bit of a mess.  Maybe using noise
>>> reduction software is a solution.
>>
>> This?
>>
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/pdml@pdml.net/msg337082.html
>>
>> Can't access the picture (the apostrophe?).
>
>
>
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PESO: Mt Hood Dawn

[Jack Davis]

Was making a wallpaper seasonal change and decided to PESO it. I've not
kept a list of those I've put up, so sure hope this is not a
duplication. 
Mt Hood, OR. ME Super, M-28mm f/2.8, film(?). It's on print film and
I'll be happy to look it up if anyone cares.

Jack

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=201



 

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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Shel Belinkoff]

Hmmm  maybe I'll play around with lower ISO ratings and see what
happens. I never tried noise reduction in the camera either.  Any thoughts
about that?

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Paul Stenquist 

> That's much better than you could ever achieve with ISO 1600 color  
> film. In fact, it's an excellent shot. The lack of perfection is part  
> of its appeal. In my opinion, to achieve something better in terms of  
> rendering would require medium format BW.
> On Nov 6, 2006, at 10:00 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
>
> > I took the pic down but, for you, have just put it up again.  You  
> > can see
> > all the noise in the dark apron and pants of the waitress, and the
> > muddiness in Zones 1,2, and perhaps 3.
> >
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~ebay-pics/bkfast_at_bette's.html
> >
> > Shel
> >
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Kostas Kavoussanakis <
> >
> >> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
> >>
> >>> I posted a shot here a while back -
> >>> Bette's Diner - in which I shot so far
> >>> to the right to the right that I literally
> >>> had to paint in some highlight
> >>> details, yet the darker areas of the
> >>> photo were still very noisy. This may
> >>> have been the result of having to shoot
> >>> @ 1600 ISO, but, as has been said,
> >>> that area in Zones 1,2,and 3 were a
> >>> bit of a mess.  Maybe using noise
> >>> reduction software is a solution.



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Re: Luminence Smoothing and Color Noise Reduction

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Nov 6, 2006, at 7:43 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
> Is it possible to use these features locally in PS CS (such as in  
> specific
> shadow areas) or must the adjustments be made to the entire photo?


If you're talking about these controls in Camera Raw, the adjustments  
are made on the entire image.

If you want to have the corrections applied selectively, you need to  
RAW convert the image twice.

- Save the files out to two PSD files.

- Open the two files.

- Copy the one that has the corrections you want and paste it onto  
the one tha has no corrections, the pasted data will by default be in  
a layer floating above the background and will hide the background,  
uncorrected layer.

- Add a Layer Mask with Hide All option to this layer. (the mask will  
be black)

- Use the brush tool with a soft edge and foreground color white to  
paint in the areas of the scene where you want the correction to show  
through.

- Once you have it set up the way you want, flatten the image to  
merge the two layers into the background layer.

If you want to adjust the cropping, you should either do it in the  
RAW converter so that both versions output will be identical or do it  
after doing the above on the edited image.

You can do similar things using the noise reduction or sharpening  
tools in Photoshop at the RGB level by duplicating the background  
layer, applying noise reductions to the layer, then adding the mask  
and exposing the areas you want to correct, merging. I do this all  
the time with sharpening in particular.

The best way to not have noise problems to begin with is to provide  
adequate exposure, of course. In a high contrast scene with moving  
subject matter like people, you ultimately have to deal with the  
maximum dynamic range of the sensor, but if you target Zone IX as  
your exposure baseline (the brightest white that includes detail) you  
should be able to accommodate up to 8-9 stops of dynamic range in  
your scene with good RAW conversion practice. At high ISO settings,  
this dynamic range is reduced ... you need to experiment to see what  
you can obtain at the ISO and exposure settings that fit your subject  
matter. Data that falls out at the bottom can simply be clipped to  
black, or blended to provides a smooth fall off rather than a  
speckled appearance.

Or you can add noise to simulate and provide the perception of grain,  
like Tri-X exposed at ASA 1600 or higher.  ;-)

enjoy
Godfrey





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Re: PESO - Walkway

[Gonz]

On my screen, the highlights look overpowering.  My eyes tell me that 
they would like to see more detail in the bright part of the steps.  It 
has potential though.



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Seen on a short walk around the neighborhood today.
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~my-pics/walkway.html
> 
> istDS, K24/2.8, f11, 1/250, ISO 200, conversion using DHS technique in
> Photoshop
> 
> Hope you enjoy it 
> 
> Shel
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Winter Experiment

[Gonz]

Occasionally is the operative word.  Life's too short to live like that 
for much of the year, year after year.  Even Boston was too bloody cold 
for me.  Couldnt wait for summer.

:)


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Looks like a nice place. I wish we had temperatures and snow like that
> occasionally, although the short days are pretty gruesome.
> 
> --
> Cheers,
>  Bob
>  
> 
> 
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>>Behalf Of Don Williams
>>Sent: 05 November 2006 13:40
>>To: pdml@pdml.net
>>Subject: Winter Experiment
>>
>>It's cold in Toivakka. This morning it was -25C when I went 
> 
> [...]
> 
>>Pictures are here:
>>
>>http://picasaweb.google.com/don.donwilliams/WinterExperimental
>>
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Luminence Smoothing and Color Noise Reduction

[Mat Maessen]

On 11/6/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 6, 2006, at 7:43 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
> > Is it possible to use these features locally in PS CS (such as in
> > specific
> If you're talking about these controls in Camera Raw, the adjustments
> are made on the entire image.
...
> Godfrey

Thank you for that tidbit of information, Godfrey. This one's going in
the "useful information" file.

-Mat

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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

The DS' Noise Reduction kicks in at around 1/8 second or so.

Here's a comparison picture of NR on and NR off offers for a 30  
second exposure, processed from RAW with both Vuescan and Camera Raw:
   http://homepage.mac.com/godders/straight-NR-comp.jpg

I'll have to go back through my archive to get the EXIF data for #s  
6194 and 6193 PEF files.

Godfrey

On Nov 6, 2006, at 8:22 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote:

> Hmmm  maybe I'll play around with lower ISO ratings and see what
> happens. I never tried noise reduction in the camera either.  Any  
> thoughts
> about that?
>
>> That's much better than you could ever achieve with ISO 1600 color
>> film. In fact, it's an excellent shot. The lack of perfection is part
>> of its appeal. In my opinion, to achieve something better in terms of
>> rendering would require medium format BW.
>>
>>> I took the pic down but, for you, have just put it up again.  You
>>> can see
>>> all the noise in the dark apron and pants of the waitress, and the
>>> muddiness in Zones 1,2, and perhaps 3.
>>>
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~ebay-pics/bkfast_at_bette's.html


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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Shel Belinkoff]

Good to know ... I'll experiment with it.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Godfrey DiGiorgi 

> The DS' Noise Reduction kicks in at around 1/8 second or so.



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Re: PESO: Kitten

[David J Brooks]

As one leaves, one arrives.:-)

Nice kitten and nice pose.

Dave

>> We are preparing for the arrival of two new kittens in our home.
>> Here's one of them:
>
> http://leende.net/peso/kitten.htm
>>
>> Toine
>>
>
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>



Equine Photography in York Region

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Re: Luminence Smoothing and Color Noise Reduction

[Shel Belinkoff]

Printed out and saved!  Thanks ... you are truly one of the Great Ones ...
right behind the person who makes your pastries >

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Godfrey DiGiorgi 

> On Nov 6, 2006, at 7:43 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote:

> > Is it possible to use these features 
> > locally in PS CS (such as in  
> > specific shadow areas) or must 
> > the adjustments be made to the entire photo?
>
>
> If you're talking about these controls in Camera Raw, the adjustments  
> are made on the entire image.
>
> If you want to have the corrections applied selectively, you need to  
> RAW convert the image twice.


> - Save the files out to two PSD files.
>
> - Open the two files.
>
> - Copy the one that has the corrections you want and paste it onto  
> the one tha has no corrections, the pasted data will by default be in  
> a layer floating above the background and will hide the background,  
> uncorrected layer.

[BIG SNIP]



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Re: PESO: Kitten

[ann sanfedele]

Very sweet - love those blue eyes
ann

David J Brooks wrote:

> As one leaves, one arrives.:-)
>
> Nice kitten and nice pose.
>
> Dave
>
> >> We are preparing for the arrival of two new kittens in our home.
> >> Here's one of them:
> >
> > http://leende.net/peso/kitten.htm
> >>
> >> Toine
> >>
> >
> > --
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >
>
> Equine Photography in York Region
>
> --
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Re: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[ann sanfedele]

I missed your sad announcement Dave - and hence the photo
condolences, of course, but would you send the picture again?

ann (and ashley)



Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

> On Nov 6, 2006, at 9:31 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
>
> > Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly,
> > today.
> > ...
>
> It's sad to say goodbye to cat and dog people. They live such short
> lives. :-|
> My condolences.
>
> Godfrey
>
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Re: PESO: Mt Hood Dawn

[Bruce Dayton]

This one doesn't seem quite up to your standards.  It could just be
the scan perhaps.  The lower trees are all blocked up with no detail
and the contrast seems too extreme - snow blown out on the right and
relatively flat on the left.  It has the feel of scanning a print (at
least from my experience).

Care to enlighten me a little?

-- 
Bruce


Monday, November 6, 2006, 8:21:42 AM, you wrote:

JD> Was making a wallpaper seasonal change and decided to PESO it. I've not
JD> kept a list of those I've put up, so sure hope this is not a
JD> duplication. 
JD> Mt Hood, OR. ME Super, M-28mm f/2.8, film(?). It's on print film and
JD> I'll be happy to look it up if anyone cares.

JD> Jack

JD> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=201



 
JD> 

JD> Sponsored Link

JD> Free Uniden 5.8GHz Phone System with Packet8 Internet Phone Service
JD> http://www.getpacket8.net/yahoo2




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RE: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[Shel Belinkoff]

I am so sorry to hear that, Dave.  My deepest and heartfelt condolences.  
Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: David J Brooks 

> Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly, today.



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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Bruce Dayton]

I only shoot above 400 when I have to.  I expect 1600 to be quite
noisy.  Try shooting around 200-400 and maybe using a tripod if
necessary.  I echo Paul's comments that I get much better 1600-3200
images than I ever got on color film - but still noisy.

-- 
Best regards,
Bruce


Monday, November 6, 2006, 8:22:27 AM, you wrote:

SB> Hmmm  maybe I'll play around with lower ISO ratings and see what
SB> happens. I never tried noise reduction in the camera either.  Any thoughts
SB> about that?

SB> Shel



>> [Original Message]
>> From: Paul Stenquist 

>> That's much better than you could ever achieve with ISO 1600 color
>> film. In fact, it's an excellent shot. The lack of perfection is part
>> of its appeal. In my opinion, to achieve something better in terms of
>> rendering would require medium format BW.
>> On Nov 6, 2006, at 10:00 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
>>
>> > I took the pic down but, for you, have just put it up again.  You
>> > can see
>> > all the noise in the dark apron and pants of the waitress, and the
>> > muddiness in Zones 1,2, and perhaps 3.
>> >
>> > http://home.earthlink.net/~ebay-pics/bkfast_at_bette's.html
>> >
>> > Shel
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> [Original Message]
>> >> From: Kostas Kavoussanakis <
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I posted a shot here a while back -
>> >>> Bette's Diner - in which I shot so far
>> >>> to the right to the right that I literally
>> >>> had to paint in some highlight
>> >>> details, yet the darker areas of the
>> >>> photo were still very noisy. This may
>> >>> have been the result of having to shoot
>> >>> @ 1600 ISO, but, as has been said,
>> >>> that area in Zones 1,2,and 3 were a
>> >>> bit of a mess.  Maybe using noise
>> >>> reduction software is a solution.






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Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[David J Brooks]

Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly, today.

Kelly had been showing her age the last 10 months or so, careful  
stairs, lots of sleep, but still wanted to come outside with us and  
hang.

The last few days, she would not eat or drink, and could barely walk.

Took her to the vet this morning and the diognosis was kidney failure.  
Nothing he could do.

Here is a shot from about a year ago, just as she was slowing down.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/bookelly4309.jpg

The calico(Boo)and Kelly are/were snuggle buddies. Boo and the rest  
will miss her.
1990-2006
I have not told my daughter yet, shes at work. Erin "bought" her as a  
kitten, from a farm my wife worked at in 1990 for $2.00. She polished  
some apples for the $2.00 then gave it back.:-)
We tried to teach her at an early age about responsibilities, money  
etc. It worked.

Thanks for listening

Dave

Equine Photography in York Region

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Re: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[Boris Liberman]

Hi!

> Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly, today.
> ...
> Thanks for listening
> 
> Dave

Sad news indeed. My condolences, Dave.

Boris

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Re: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Nov 6, 2006, at 9:31 AM, David J Brooks wrote:

> Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly,  
> today.
> ...

It's sad to say goodbye to cat and dog people. They live such short  
lives. :-|
My condolences.

Godfrey

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New book

[Bill Owens]

I recently received Mark Galer's book, Adobe Photoshop Elements 5.0 Maximum
Performance.  It came with a DVD with movies and photos to walk one through
many of the steps.  I haven't had a chance to do much more than thumb
through it so far, but it seems to be a great source of information.

Bill


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Re: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[David J Brooks]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/bookelly4309.jpg

Link above Ann

Dave

Quoting ann sanfedele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I missed your sad announcement Dave - and hence the photo
> condolences, of course, but would you send the picture again?
>
> ann (and ashley)
>
>
>
> Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
>> On Nov 6, 2006, at 9:31 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
>>
>> > Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly,
>> > today.
>> > ...
>>
>> It's sad to say goodbye to cat and dog people. They live such short
>> lives. :-|
>> My condolences.
>>
>> Godfrey
>>
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>
>
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Re: PESO: Mt Hood Dawn II (Bruce)

[Jack Davis]

Bruce, I see what you mean. Due to lighting and resulting contrast,
there's no color or detail available in the lower trees. I've dug out
another scan and have it up.

Looking forward to comments.

Jack

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=202

--- Bruce Dayton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This one doesn't seem quite up to your standards.  It could just be
> the scan perhaps.  The lower trees are all blocked up with no detail
> and the contrast seems too extreme - snow blown out on the right and
> relatively flat on the left.  It has the feel of scanning a print (at
> least from my experience).
> 
> Care to enlighten me a little?
> 
> -- 
> Bruce
> 
> 
> Monday, November 6, 2006, 8:21:42 AM, you wrote:
> 
> JD> Was making a wallpaper seasonal change and decided to PESO it.
> I've not
> JD> kept a list of those I've put up, so sure hope this is not a
> JD> duplication. 
> JD> Mt Hood, OR. ME Super, M-28mm f/2.8, film(?). It's on print film
> and
> JD> I'll be happy to look it up if anyone cares.
> 
> JD> Jack
> 
> JD> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=201
> 
> 
> 
>  
> JD>
>

> JD> Sponsored Link
> 
> JD> Free Uniden 5.8GHz Phone System with Packet8 Internet Phone
> Service
> JD> http://www.getpacket8.net/yahoo2
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 






 

Sponsored Link

Mortgage rates near historic lows: 
$150,000 loan as low as $579/mo. Intro-*Terms 
https://www2.nextag.com/

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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Shel Belinkoff]

Hi Bruce 

Very little of what I photograph can be done using a tripod.  I do try to
shoot at the lowest possible ISO, and if I can't use a 'pod I try other
ways to steady the camera wherever possible.

Perhaps experimenting with different ISO ratings and exposures will enable
me to find a "sweet spot" for some situations.

Thanks for jumping in 

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Bruce Dayton 

> I only shoot above 400 when I have to.  I expect 1600 to be quite
> noisy.  Try shooting around 200-400 and maybe using a tripod if
> necessary.  I echo Paul's comments that I get much better 1600-3200
> images than I ever got on color film - but still noisy.
>
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Bruce
>
>
> Monday, November 6, 2006, 8:22:27 AM, you wrote:
>
> SB> Hmmm  maybe I'll play around with lower ISO ratings and see what
> SB> happens. I never tried noise reduction in the camera either.  Any
thoughts
> SB> about that?



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Re: JunkEmail: Re: Pentax's Tatamiya Interview Part II, #1

[Jan van Wijk]

Hi Martin,

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 16:11:42 +0100, Martin Trautmann wrote:

>> The lenses which we can formally claim as water-proof are those 3 DA* lenses
>> that we announced in Photokina this year.
>
>Do those new lenses have a fixed outer size?

Yes, they use internal zooming/focusing as far 
as I could see from the samples at Photokina ... 

>Otherwise every zoom movement will suck in some air, causing changing
>humidity and condensation inside.

Indeed, but I don't think these will :-)

>However, I guess there's no major 'fog' problems 
>within lenses and sensors?

You may have some if inferiour materials are used.
Some plastics and lubricants are known to 
cause 'fogging' on the (very) long term.

I don't expect these DA * lenses or the K10D itself 
to use those 'cheap' materials though :-)

Regards, JvW



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DPReview taking a new stance?

[Cotty]

-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



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Re: DPReview taking a new stance?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I guess there's money to be made in feeding the rumor mill.

Godfrey

On Nov 6, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Cotty wrote:

> 


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Re: Waiting For Pentax Products

[keith_w]

Thibouille wrote:
> indeed mdr is the correct short word for "mort de rire" ;)
> strangely we use lol/LOL as well.. even those supposedly allergic to
> english which is a bit funny ;)

> Le 03/11/06, Christian<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :
>> MdR ? :-)
>>
>> Christian

>> Patrice LACOUTURE (GMail) wrote:
>>> Mort de rire!
>>>
>>>
>>> (The French for LOL, litterally "laughing to death")
>>> Patrice

Out here on the Left Coast, it stands for Marina del Rey, a lovely place 
to spend your rent money, due West of Los Angeles...

keith whaley

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Re: DPReview taking a new stance?

[DagT]

He has made some comments before indicating that he is tired of being  
the good guy when everyone else is leaking.

DagT

Den 6. nov. 2006 kl. 20.00 skrev Godfrey DiGiorgi:

> I guess there's money to be made in feeding the rumor mill.
>
> Godfrey
>
> On Nov 6, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Cotty wrote:
>
>> 
>


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16-bit Canon Printer

[Shel Belinkoff]

Maybe it's old news, but I just found out about the Canon imagePROGRAF
iPF5000 which can print 16-bit files and uses 12 ink cartridges.  Looks
verrry interesting

http://tinyurl.com/yb383m 
http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20060221_iPF5000.html


Shel




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Re: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[Kenneth Waller]

Sorry to hear of your loss Dave.

Kelly & boo look like mousers.

Kenneth Waller

- Original Message - 
From: "David J Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot


> Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly, today.
>
> Kelly had been showing her age the last 10 months or so, careful
> stairs, lots of sleep, but still wanted to come outside with us and
> hang.
>
> The last few days, she would not eat or drink, and could barely walk.
>
> Took her to the vet this morning and the diognosis was kidney failure.
> Nothing he could do.
>
> Here is a shot from about a year ago, just as she was slowing down.
>
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/bookelly4309.jpg
>
> The calico(Boo)and Kelly are/were snuggle buddies. Boo and the rest
> will miss her.
> 1990-2006
> I have not told my daughter yet, shes at work. Erin "bought" her as a
> kitten, from a farm my wife worked at in 1990 for $2.00. She polished
> some apples for the $2.00 then gave it back.:-)
> We tried to teach her at an early age about responsibilities, money
> etc. It worked.
>
> Thanks for listening
>
> Dave
>
> Equine Photography in York Region
>
> -- 
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> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net 


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Re: DPReview taking a new stance?

[Gonz]

Looks like they took out the AF screw drive for older lenses.  Makes the 
removal of the aperture simulator seem outright user friendly.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> 

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Re: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[Carlos Royo]

David J Brooks escribió:
> Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly, today.
> 

I know how you feel, David. My condolences to you and the rest of your 
human and feline family.

Carlos

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Re: DPReview taking a new stance?

[Perry Pellechia]

Good to see that Ken Rockwell has is review up.

On 11/6/06, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>   Cotty
>
>
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
> ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
>
>
>
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Home Page: http://homer.chem.sc.edu/perry
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Re: DPReview taking a new stance?

[Adam Maas]

He got screwed quite badly by Canon on the 400D/XTi launch, despite 
being one of the few sites that had actually abided the embargo 
(DPReview's only ever leaked a couple of times, and always due to a 
mistake or technical glitch).

-Adam


DagT wrote:
> He has made some comments before indicating that he is tired of being  
> the good guy when everyone else is leaking.
> 
> DagT
> 
> Den 6. nov. 2006 kl. 20.00 skrev Godfrey DiGiorgi:
> 
> 
>>I guess there's money to be made in feeding the rumor mill.
>>
>>Godfrey
>>
>>On Nov 6, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Cotty wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 



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Re: 16-bit Canon Printer

[Shel Belinkoff]

There's a Luminous landscape review of the printer  MR seems pretty
pleased with it.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Date: 11/6/2006 12:08:43 PM
> Subject: Re: 16-bit Canon Printer
>
> Looks interesting, I'll be interested to see how it does in the  
> market. A 17" wide printer would be a useful upgrade, but I'm not  
> ready to spend the money there yet.
>
> G
>
> On Nov 6, 2006, at 11:44 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
>
> > Maybe it's old news, but I just found out about the Canon imagePROGRAF
> > iPF5000 which can print 16-bit files and uses 12 ink cartridges.   
> > Looks
> > verrry interesting
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/yb383m
> > http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/ 
> > 20060221_iPF5000.html
>
>
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Re: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[Vic MacBournie]

It's never easy Dave.. hope you have lots of pics of your good times 
with her...
On 6-Nov-06, at 1:08 PM, Boris Liberman wrote:

> Hi!
>
>> Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly, 
>> today.
>> ...
>> Thanks for listening
>>
>> Dave
>
> Sad news indeed. My condolences, Dave.
>
> Boris
>
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Re: 16-bit Canon Printer

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Looks interesting, I'll be interested to see how it does in the  
market. A 17" wide printer would be a useful upgrade, but I'm not  
ready to spend the money there yet.

G

On Nov 6, 2006, at 11:44 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote:

> Maybe it's old news, but I just found out about the Canon imagePROGRAF
> iPF5000 which can print 16-bit files and uses 12 ink cartridges.   
> Looks
> verrry interesting
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yb383m
> http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/ 
> 20060221_iPF5000.html


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Re: DPReview taking a new stance?

[Matt Kelch]

Gonz wrote:
> Looks like they took out the AF screw drive for older lenses.  Makes the 
> removal of the aperture simulator seem outright user friendly.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>   
>> 
>>
>> 
> The target market isn't going to care.  
>   


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Re: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[Paul Stenquist]

Sorry to hear of this, Dave. Pretty pic.
Paul
On Nov 6, 2006, at 1:38 PM, David J Brooks wrote:

> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/bookelly4309.jpg
>
> Link above Ann
>
> Dave
>
> Quoting ann sanfedele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> I missed your sad announcement Dave - and hence the photo
>> condolences, of course, but would you send the picture again?
>>
>> ann (and ashley)
>>
>>
>>
>> Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2006, at 9:31 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
>>>
 Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly,
 today.
 ...
>>>
>>> It's sad to say goodbye to cat and dog people. They live such short
>>> lives. :-|
>>> My condolences.
>>>
>>> Godfrey
>>>
>>> --
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
>
>
>
> Equine Photography in York Region
>
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Re: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[Toine]

That's sad news. It's always difficult to say goodbye to cats and
dogs, they should live forever. Our condolences.

Toine

On 11/6/06, David J Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly, today.
>
> Kelly had been showing her age the last 10 months or so, careful
> stairs, lots of sleep, but still wanted to come outside with us and
> hang.
>
> The last few days, she would not eat or drink, and could barely walk.
>
> Took her to the vet this morning and the diognosis was kidney failure.
> Nothing he could do.
>
> Here is a shot from about a year ago, just as she was slowing down.
>
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/bookelly4309.jpg
>
> The calico(Boo)and Kelly are/were snuggle buddies. Boo and the rest
> will miss her.
> 1990-2006
> I have not told my daughter yet, shes at work. Erin "bought" her as a
> kitten, from a farm my wife worked at in 1990 for $2.00. She polished
> some apples for the $2.00 then gave it back.:-)
> We tried to teach her at an early age about responsibilities, money
> etc. It worked.
>
> Thanks for listening
>
> Dave
>
> Equine Photography in York Region
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>

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Re: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[Jack Davis]

Sad day. Always difficult to imagine the kind of emotional hole they
can leave when gone.

Jack

--- David J Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly,
> today.
> 
> Kelly had been showing her age the last 10 months or so, careful  
> stairs, lots of sleep, but still wanted to come outside with us and  
> hang.
> 
> The last few days, she would not eat or drink, and could barely walk.
> 
> Took her to the vet this morning and the diognosis was kidney
> failure.  
> Nothing he could do.
> 
> Here is a shot from about a year ago, just as she was slowing down.
> 
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/bookelly4309.jpg
> 
> The calico(Boo)and Kelly are/were snuggle buddies. Boo and the rest  
> will miss her.
> 1990-2006
> I have not told my daughter yet, shes at work. Erin "bought" her as a
>  
> kitten, from a farm my wife worked at in 1990 for $2.00. She polished
>  
> some apples for the $2.00 then gave it back.:-)
> We tried to teach her at an early age about responsibilities, money  
> etc. It worked.
> 
> Thanks for listening
> 
> Dave
> 
> Equine Photography in York Region
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 




 

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Re: PESO - Walkway

[Toine]

Nice. I like the B&W rendering. What is DHS?

Toine

On 11/6/06, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Seen on a short walk around the neighborhood today.
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~my-pics/walkway.html
>
> istDS, K24/2.8, f11, 1/250, ISO 200, conversion using DHS technique in
> Photoshop
>
> Hope you enjoy it 
>
> Shel
>
>
>
>
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OT - good replacement for the discontinued Kodak Polymax RC paper?

[Mat Maessen]

I'm going to be doing some black and white printing very soon. Kodak
discontinued the paper a couple of years ago, and I used up the stock
I had on hand. So I'm looking for a replacement.

What do folks out on the list use? I tried Ilford paper a while back,
and I never was too happy with how it looked, and the paper I was
using was a lot flimsier than the Kodak stuff. Who else should I look
at? Agfa? Foma? Kentmere? The shots I'll be doing are people-shots,
probably on Tri-X and Plus-X in medium format.

Thanks folks,

-Mat

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Re: DPReview taking a new stance?

[Adam Maas]

Other than the larger LCD and ISO3200, it looks like a significant 
downgrade from the D50 all around, and it no longer shares batteries 
with Nikon's other non-Pro bodies (While the D80 and D200 don't take the 
older EN-EL3[a] batteries, the older bodies do take the newer EN-EL3e 
batteries). And Nikon continues to introduce a new kit lens with every 
non-pro body they introduce, which is stupid.

Not impressed in the least. The K110D seems clearly superior 
(Particularly AF-wise) for the same cost.

-Adam


Gonz wrote:
> Looks like they took out the AF screw drive for older lenses.  Makes the 
> removal of the aperture simulator seem outright user friendly.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>>
>>
> 



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Re: Pentax's Tatamiya Interview Part II, #4

[Thibouille]

Thanks Dave.

Very interesting, indeed. :D kudos to Ken.

2006/11/6, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On 11/6/06, Thibouille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Could someone provide me with the forst part (or link to the archive
> > with correct post)?
> > I'm just back from holliday, read part 2 easily but can't find part
> > one on the mail I received.
>
> Here's the link to part 1 in the archive:
>
> 
>
> Dave (Au)
>
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--
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Re: DPReview taking a new stance?

[Adam Maas]

Matt Kelch wrote:
> Gonz wrote:
> 
>>Looks like they took out the AF screw drive for older lenses.  Makes the 
>>removal of the aperture simulator seem outright user friendly.
>>
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>  
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>The target market isn't going to care.  
>>  
> 

Some of it will. The 50mm f1.8 is a commonly recommended 2nd or 3rd lens 
for D50 owners. And it won't AF on this body, nor will the 70-300G, a 
common cheap second lens (And the 70-300D is nigh on useless as an MF lens).

-Adam



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Re: DPReview taking a new stance?

[John Francis]

Well, he has the advantage of not actually having to bother
with using the camera before he reviews it.

On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 02:40:29PM -0500, Perry Pellechia wrote:
> Good to see that Ken Rockwell has is review up.
> 
> On 11/6/06, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >   Cotty
> >
> >
> > ___/\__
> > ||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
> > ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
> > _
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> <>
> Perry Pellechia
> 
> Primary email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Alternate email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Home Page: http://homer.chem.sc.edu/perry
> <>
> 
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RE: PESO: the K10D will have to wait

[Jens Bladt]

Thanks, Ralf
I did show some of your photographs to a friend - now we wnat to go and
shoot night photograps too :-)
We aim to use 6x6 or 6x9 format.

50-100% for reciprocity failure is probably fine, but how do you manage to
dertermine such long exposures in the first place, please Do you have a
meter for this - or ist it all exprience?

Regards
Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
Ralf R. Radermacher
Sendt: 5. november 2006 20:43
Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Emne: Re: PESO: the K10D will have to wait


Jens Bladt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Did you really expose 15 minutes?

Sure. Mind you, 30 secs or a minute at f8 (my usual values with 35 mm or
6 x 6 cm) wouldn't sound extreme given the illumination (or rather the
lack of it) at this scene.

Now, these large formats with their long lenses require much smaller
apertures than, say, 35 mm to get the same DOF and in this special case
to achieve decent quality in the far corners of the negative which is
already pushing things a little at 6x17 and a 4x5 inch lens with an
image circle of some 220 mm.  So, stop down to f22, add a mere 50 to 100
percent for reciprocity failure and those 15 minutes are really at the
short end of things. If I were to repeat this shot, I'd rather do it
with 30 minutes.

All this is a new world to me as well. I'm just learning that even in
bright daylight I'm shooting at 1/15 sec, enough to cause motion blur
with things as slow as the coal barges on the river Meuse.

Ralf

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private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
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K10D - ISO test shots

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Ned is one of the Pentax representatives. He posted some example  
photos using the K10D and firmware v0.32 at ISO 200, 400, 800 and  
1600 to DPReview.com. The thread starts here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=20760234

Godfrey

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Re: K10D - ISO test shots

[Christian]

Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
> Ned is one of the Pentax representatives. He posted some example  
> photos using the K10D and firmware v0.32 at ISO 200, 400, 800 and  
> 1600 to DPReview.com. The thread starts here:
> 
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=20760234
> 
> Godfrey
> 

What do I know, but they look pretty good to me.  ISO 800 looks great 
and although there is color noise in the 1600 shot, it is definitely 
very usable.

-- 

Christian
http://photography.skofteland.net

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Re: PESO: the K10D will have to wait

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

Jens Bladt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 50-100% for reciprocity failure is probably fine, but how do you manage to
> dertermine such long exposures in the first place, please Do you have a
> meter for this - or ist it all exprience?

Most of it is in fact experience from years of shooting in such
locations or places with comparable lighting. Something in the order of
2 minutes at f8 with ISO 160 is a good starting point for such a scene.
A bit of bracketing is always useful. If in doubt, overexpose by a stop
or two. The problem with these scenes is mostly getting some trace of
detail into the shadows. Modern colour negative film is very tolerant
against overexposure. If you really wanted to block the highlights you'd
probably have to burn holes into it. Afterwards, Vuescan's
multi-sampling feature does a remarkable job of squeezing the last bit
of information out of those rather dense highlights again, even with the
average Epson flatbed scanner.

Great to be back in this wonderful season where there isn't all this
stupid daylight deep into the late hours. ;-)

Ralf

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private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
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Re: DPReview taking a new stance?

[Bruce Dayton]

It's really been designed for people who want to say they have a
Nikon, but don't really want to take any pictures.  So anything that
can be removed, has been - lowers the cost. 

-- 
Bruce


Monday, November 6, 2006, 11:56:55 AM, you wrote:

G> Looks like they took out the AF screw drive for older lenses.  Makes the
G> removal of the aperture simulator seem outright user friendly.

G> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
>> 




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Re: November PUG comments

[Thrainn Vigfusson]

I also think the photo is a bit too dark. I think I might have edited the 
photo under different lighting than when I calibrated the monitor.

Thanks for the comments. I keep forgetting to write "Comments welcome" when I 
submit pictures to the PUG.

Thrainn

On Wednesday 01 November 2006 22:36, Jaume Lahuerta wrote:
>
> " Abandoned half-buit house  " by  Thrainn Vigfusson
>Again very promising, great sky and perspective, but too dark
> overall...I am starting to think that it is my monitor calibration ??
>
> Jaume


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Re: PESO - Great taste

[DagT]

Thanks (to cb too)!

DagT

Den 5. nov. 2006 kl. 23.21 skrev Godfrey DiGiorgi:

> Marvelous, well seen!!
>
> Godfrey
>
> On Nov 5, 2006, at 12:37 PM, DagT wrote:
>
>> http://foto.no/cgi-bin/bildekritikk/vis_bilde.cgi?id=270225
>


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Re: OT - good replacement for the discontinued Kodak Polymax RC paper?

[Paul Stenquist]

I found Ilford Muligrade IV to be an excellent paper, both in RC and  
Fiber. It's quite heavy, somewhere in between the old Kodak single  
and double weight, I'd guess.
On Nov 6, 2006, at 3:25 PM, Mat Maessen wrote:

> I'm going to be doing some black and white printing very soon. Kodak
> discontinued the paper a couple of years ago, and I used up the stock
> I had on hand. So I'm looking for a replacement.
>
> What do folks out on the list use? I tried Ilford paper a while back,
> and I never was too happy with how it looked, and the paper I was
> using was a lot flimsier than the Kodak stuff. Who else should I look
> at? Agfa? Foma? Kentmere? The shots I'll be doing are people-shots,
> probably on Tri-X and Plus-X in medium format.
>
> Thanks folks,
>
> -Mat
>
> -- 
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Re: OT - good replacement for the discontinued Kodak Polymax RC paper?

[Mat Maessen]

On 11/6/06, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I found Ilford Muligrade IV to be an excellent paper, both in RC and
> Fiber. It's quite heavy, somewhere in between the old Kodak single
> and double weight, I'd guess.

Noted. The Ilford I used felt lighter than the Kodak single weight. I
like the heavier papers. Easier to handle and dry.

-Mat

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RE: DPReview taking a new stance?

[Bob W]

Well, you know, the thing about Ken is, he would never patronise his
readers. For example, he would never say anything like 

"Nikon labels ISO 3,200 as "H" so most people won't use it. This is
because experienced photographers know ISO 3,200 is supposed to look
grainy, but most people don't. Nikon (and Canon) hide these very fast
settings with these code names so normal people won't use them "

or

"Idiot Modes: [...] (I never use these)."

or

"The D40 lacks depth-of-field preview and front-panel FUNC buttons. No
big deal, since 99% of the people who will buy the D40 have no idea
what these are,"

"and today we all use the LCD for looking at DOF anyway." 

"The DOF button was a relic from film cameras: nice to have, but
hardly critical."

"I'm suggesting the D40 to my friends"

So basically, Ken thinks his friends are idiots. 

And I suppose they probably are, if Ken is one of their friends.

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 Bob
 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of John Francis
> Sent: 06 November 2006 21:24
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: DPReview taking a new stance?
> 
> 
> Well, he has the advantage of not actually having to bother
> with using the camera before he reviews it.
> 
> On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 02:40:29PM -0500, Perry Pellechia wrote:
> > Good to see that Ken Rockwell has is review up.
> > 
> > On 11/6/06, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 


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Re: 16-bit Canon Printer

[Doug Franklin]

Shel Belinkoff wrote:
> Maybe it's old news, but I just found out about the Canon imagePROGRAF
> iPF5000 which can print 16-bit files and uses 12 ink cartridges.  Looks
> verrry interesting

> http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20060221_iPF5000.html

That looks like an incredible printer, and I'd love to have one ... but
nearly US$ 2,000 is /way/ out of my price range.  I've been trying to
convince myself for more than a year that I'd do enough prints larger
than 8" x 10" to replace my Epson 820 with something like an Epson R1800
or Canon i9900.

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Re: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[Doug Franklin]

David J Brooks wrote:

> Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly, today.

I'm really sorry to hear that, Dave.  I certainly know how you feel.
The oldest of my four, at 19 years, seems to be on her last legs, also.

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Re: 16-bit Canon Printer

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Nov 6, 2006, at 3:50 PM, Doug Franklin wrote:

> Shel Belinkoff wrote:
>> Maybe it's old news, but I just found out about the Canon  
>> imagePROGRAF
>> iPF5000 which can print 16-bit files and uses 12 ink cartridges.   
>> Looks
>> verrry interesting
>
>> http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/ 
>> 20060221_iPF5000.html
>
> That looks like an incredible printer, and I'd love to have one ...  
> but
> nearly US$ 2,000 is /way/ out of my price range.  I've been trying to
> convince myself for more than a year that I'd do enough prints larger
> than 8" x 10" to replace my Epson 820 with something like an Epson  
> R1800
> or Canon i9900.

$2000 or more makes sense only if you are printing a LOT of larger  
size prints. The Epson R2400 was expensive to my way of thinking at  
$800, but in retrospect with the volume of A3 and A3 Super prints  
I've been putting out this year, I should have gone for the R4800 and  
would have saved money on ink overall.

(Just printed another dozen A3 B&Ws ... the R2400 is a very fine  
printer!)

Godfrey




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Re: Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[ann sanfedele]

Thanks DAVe -
for some reason the original tribute you wrote now showed up
so I just looked...

My kit is only a year old -- I'm thinking if I'm lucky she will outlive me
Id miss her terribly in my dotage I know if she passed on first

ann

David J Brooks wrote:

> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/bookelly4309.jpg
>
> Link above Ann
>
> Dave
>
> Quoting ann sanfedele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > I missed your sad announcement Dave - and hence the photo
> > condolences, of course, but would you send the picture again?
> >
> > ann (and ashley)
> >
> >
> >
> > Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
> >
> >> On Nov 6, 2006, at 9:31 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
> >>
> >> > Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly,
> >> > today.
> >> > ...
> >>
> >> It's sad to say goodbye to cat and dog people. They live such short
> >> lives. :-|
> >> My condolences.
> >>
> >> Godfrey
> >>
> >> --
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> >> PDML@pdml.net
> >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >
> >
> > --
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>
> Equine Photography in York Region
>
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Re:Said good bye to Kelly today, A sad cat shot

[Jim King]

David J Brooks wrote on Mon, 06 Nov 2006 10:20:09 -0800:

> Had to say good bye to our 16  year old black and white cat, Kelly,  
> today.

Very sorry to hear of your loss, Dave.  We've has to say goodbye to  
an aged cat too and it's very hard - they are members of the family.   
Hope that your remaining felines will be good therapy as you adjust  
to living without Kelly.

Regards, Jim

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Re: Luminence Smoothing and Color Noise Reduction

[Keith McGuinness]

Mat Maessen wrote:
> On 11/6/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> If you're talking about these controls in Camera Raw, the adjustments
>> are made on the entire image.
> 
> Thank you for that tidbit of information, Godfrey. This one's going in
> the "useful information" file.

I agree!

What a great idea!

I use the layers approach routinely, of course, but I never 
thought of saving two versions from the RAW converter and 
combining them.

Keith McG

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More new-camera pictures

[Michael Abbott]

Hi all,

I've put up some pictures from my new K100D and very new 43mm lens,
from a walk last weekend...

Just one:
  http://www.mabot.com/photo/rainywalk/IMGP0732-700.jpg

The whole set:
  http://www.mabot.com/photo/rainywalk/

Very happy so far, and I think I can live with the gap between 21 &
43. (I'm praying for a fast 28mm though!) The ability to use 800asa
and 1/15s without a worry is liberating, coming from slides + ka-thunk
and digicams. So much more marginal light becomes usable.

I've even got used to which way you twist the lenses on. Although
putting on rear caps one-handed still takes me two tries.

Michael

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Re: 16-bit Canon Printer

[Shel Belinkoff]

Yep, it's all relative.  In reading the review at Luminous Landscape, MR
points out that the printer comes with about $500.00 worth of ink.  Might
be something to consider.

And when you start working with the new 10mpx camera, you may want to start
printing larger.

Anyway, I'm not here to sell the machine ... it just looks like it's worth
looking into.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Godfrey DiGiorgi 

> $2000 or more makes sense only if you are printing a LOT of larger  
> size prints. The Epson R2400 was expensive to my way of thinking at  
> $800, but in retrospect with the volume of A3 and A3 Super prints  
> I've been putting out this year, I should have gone for the R4800 and  
> would have saved money on ink overall.



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RE: K10D - ISO test shots

[Shel Belinkoff]

Tks 4 the link ... pics look pretty good.  Ned's mom looks pretty good, too


Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Godfrey DiGiorgi 

> Ned is one of the Pentax representatives. He posted some example  
> photos using the K10D and firmware v0.32 at ISO 200, 400, 800 and  
> 1600 to DPReview.com. The thread starts here:
>
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=20760234



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Re: 16-bit Canon Printer

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi"
Subject: Re: 16-bit Canon Printer



> $2000 or more makes sense only if you are printing a LOT of larger
> size prints. The Epson R2400 was expensive to my way of thinking at
> $800, but in retrospect with the volume of A3 and A3 Super prints
> I've been putting out this year, I should have gone for the R4800 and
> would have saved money on ink overall.

The 4800 is very cheap to run per lineal foot, but not cheap to fill.
The 220ml inkset cost around $1000.00.
It will do a heck of a lot of prints on that inkset.
The output is very nice as well.

William Robb 



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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Michael Abbott]

Wow that's interesting. I'd assumed, seeing NR in the menus, that it
only applied to jpegs.

Do you know what it's doing? Presumably shooting another frame with
the curtains closed and subtracting, as anything else would make more
sense to do afterwards when 'developing' the raw file.

Michael


On 06/11/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The DS' Noise Reduction kicks in at around 1/8 second or so.
>
> Here's a comparison picture of NR on and NR off offers for a 30
> second exposure, processed from RAW with both Vuescan and Camera Raw:
>http://homepage.mac.com/godders/straight-NR-comp.jpg
>
> I'll have to go back through my archive to get the EXIF data for #s
> 6194 and 6193 PEF files.
>
> Godfrey
>

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Re: More new-camera pictures

[japilado]

What is the name of the city in your photographs?

Jim A.




> Hi all,
>
> I've put up some pictures from my new K100D and very new 43mm lens,
> from a walk last weekend...
>
> Just one:
>   http://www.mabot.com/photo/rainywalk/IMGP0732-700.jpg
>
> The whole set:
>   http://www.mabot.com/photo/rainywalk/
>
> Very happy so far, and I think I can live with the gap between 21 &
> 43. (I'm praying for a fast 28mm though!) The ability to use 800asa
> and 1/15s without a worry is liberating, coming from slides + ka-thunk
> and digicams. So much more marginal light becomes usable.
>
> I've even got used to which way you twist the lenses on. Although
> putting on rear caps one-handed still takes me two tries.
>
> Michael
>
> --
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>



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Re: Luminence Smoothing and Color Noise Reduction

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Nov 6, 2006, at 5:30 PM, Keith McGuinness wrote:

> What a great idea!

You're welcome!

> I use the layers approach routinely, of course, but I never
> thought of saving two versions from the RAW converter and
> combining them.

That's how the Cows photo I posted recently was produced. One set of  
RAW conversion parameters for the foreground, one set for the sky,  
combine and mask to suit. Once I got them balanced together the way I  
wanted them, I flattened and went forwards with more corrections.

Godfrey

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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

That's exactly what the DS' NR does: dark frame subtraction.
It must operate on sensor data to be effective. :-)

Godfrey

On Nov 6, 2006, at 8:11 PM, Michael Abbott wrote:

> Wow that's interesting. I'd assumed, seeing NR in the menus, that it
> only applied to jpegs.
>
> Do you know what it's doing? Presumably shooting another frame with
> the curtains closed and subtracting, as anything else would make more
> sense to do afterwards when 'developing' the raw file.
>
> Michael
>
>
> On 06/11/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The DS' Noise Reduction kicks in at around 1/8 second or so.
>>
>> Here's a comparison picture of NR on and NR off offers for a 30
>> second exposure, processed from RAW with both Vuescan and Camera Raw:
>>http://homepage.mac.com/godders/straight-NR-comp.jpg
>>
>> I'll have to go back through my archive to get the EXIF data for #s
>> 6194 and 6193 PEF files.


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Re: Another Pentax Story

[Michael Abbott]

Yes I guess I was being a bit stupid... it's late :) I knew some
digicams did dark frame subtraction, you could notice them pause for
as long again after the exposure. I somehow assumed that raw meant raw
straight off the sensor always, but I guess not. I just tried a 4sec
exposure and yes it does wait another 4sec before the review, hadn't
noticed before.

Curiously, I can hear the SR working all through the second exposure.
And also between shots on continuous mode... was trying out new,
slower, SD cards tonight. Seems like a waste of power but maybe it's
not enough to worry about.

Michael


On 07/11/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's exactly what the DS' NR does: dark frame subtraction.
> It must operate on sensor data to be effective. :-)
>
> Godfrey
>
> On Nov 6, 2006, at 8:11 PM, Michael Abbott wrote:
>
> > Wow that's interesting. I'd assumed, seeing NR in the menus, that it
> > only applied to jpegs.
> >
> > Do you know what it's doing? Presumably shooting another frame with
> > the curtains closed and subtracting, as anything else would make more
> > sense to do afterwards when 'developing' the raw file.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > On 06/11/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> The DS' Noise Reduction kicks in at around 1/8 second or so.
> >>
> >> Here's a comparison picture of NR on and NR off offers for a 30
> >> second exposure, processed from RAW with both Vuescan and Camera Raw:
> >>http://homepage.mac.com/godders/straight-NR-comp.jpg
> >>
> >> I'll have to go back through my archive to get the EXIF data for #s
> >> 6194 and 6193 PEF files.
>
>
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Re: More new-camera pictures

[Michael Abbott]

These are all in Providence, RI.

Which likes to think of itself as a city, it even has a skyline.

Michael


On 07/11/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What is the name of the city in your photographs?
>
> Jim A.
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've put up some pictures from my new K100D and very new 43mm lens,
> > from a walk last weekend...
> >
> > Just one:
> >   http://www.mabot.com/photo/rainywalk/IMGP0732-700.jpg
> >
> > The whole set:
> >   http://www.mabot.com/photo/rainywalk/
> >
> > Very happy so far, and I think I can live with the gap between 21 &
> > 43. (I'm praying for a fast 28mm though!) The ability to use 800asa
> > and 1/15s without a worry is liberating, coming from slides + ka-thunk
> > and digicams. So much more marginal light becomes usable.
> >
> > I've even got used to which way you twist the lenses on. Although
> > putting on rear caps one-handed still takes me two tries.
> >
> > Michael
> >

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RE: 16-bit Canon Printer

[Antti-Pekka Virjonen]

There is a new Epson 17" around the corner (should be available
shortly), the Epson Stylus Pro 3800 with 80ml ink cartridges and
with a lot cheaper price tag (around $1200) compared to the 4800.

It has 9 ink slots so you can have both the photo black and the
matte black in at the same time (which is a problem with the 4800).
Full set of inks (UltraChrome K3) will cost around $450-500 (so the
inks will be slightly more expensive per printed area than the
220ml 4800). No roll paper support/cutter though.

Antti-Pekka



Antti-Pekka Virjonen

Computec Oy
R&D Turku

www.computec.fi

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of William Robb
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:50 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: 16-bit Canon Printer
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi"
> Subject: Re: 16-bit Canon Printer
> 
> 
> 
> > $2000 or more makes sense only if you are printing a LOT of larger
> > size prints. The Epson R2400 was expensive to my way of thinking at
> > $800, but in retrospect with the volume of A3 and A3 Super prints
> > I've been putting out this year, I should have gone for the R4800
> and
> > would have saved money on ink overall.
> 
> The 4800 is very cheap to run per lineal foot, but not cheap to fill.
> The 220ml inkset cost around $1000.00.
> It will do a heck of a lot of prints on that inkset.
> The output is very nice as well.
> 
> William Robb
> 
> 
> 
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