Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 28, 2006, at 11:12 PM, David Savage wrote:

> Touchy, touchy. I wasn't attacking your intelligence. Simply saying
> that an education doesn't make you a smart person.

I never said that it did. Being educated has nothing to do with being  
smart. It has everything to do with being trained in how to look for  
and find information.

I did insinuate that someone who seems to hold proudly that he does  
not have a high school education does not have the credentials to be  
believable as an environmental scientist. This is not a comment about  
how smart he might be, it's a condemnation of his opinions as being  
credible in this field of knowledge.

> I work in a field where I come into contact with a lot of "educated"
> people. While most of them are smart, there a also quite a few who
> aren't, no matter what the piece of paper hanging on the wall
> proclaims.

Never said otherwise. Attacking education by assuming that it is  
equivalent to intelligence is a gross error.

> I also have a lot to do with people who'd be considered "uneducated",
> boilermakers, machinists, plant operators  etc.  they are some of the
> smartest, most practical people I know. Of course some are as thick as
> 2 bricks.

I was taught many things by these same people. Mechanics,  
photography, woodworking, shooting, etc. In fact, I visited three of  
these old mentors on my trip around the country recently, as we have  
remained fast friends through the past 35 years of my life and I  
value their thoughts very highly, wanted to see them as they are no  
longer in the best of health (they're in their 80s-90s now).

> You sir seem to have no problem lording his education over others.
>
> By saying what you've said below, you've confirmed my point about
> intellectual superiority. To this thick headed half wit, that makes
> you a snob.
>
> David (I don't have a university education, I must be stupid) Savage

I don't "lord" anything. I will, however, point out that opinion is  
not information whenever I see nonsense being paraded as such. Any  
person, no matter how well read, "smart", self-educated or whatever,  
or what a delightful person they might be, is not credible to speak  
of their opinion as factually based when they can't even take the 20  
seconds necessary to confirm a basic fact of geography, to point out  
just one example of why I felt it necessary to make the comment.

I didn't know for sure how thick the ice on Antarctica was or assume  
that my dim recollection was correct, so I looked it up. It doesn't  
require an education to do that, but it's what someone who is  
educated ... that is, trained in and used to researching/verifying  
facts (note that this says nothing about university or degrees) ...  
does as a matter of course before spouting off and assuming that what  
they think they know is fact.

And yes, I am "touchy" about listening to stupid comments and stupid  
opinions which are misinformation. Touchy isn't the correct word,  
however: exasperated and frustrated are closer to the mark. Irritated  
and impatient when people accept this kind of bumpkin logic as truth.

Godfrey

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Introduction

[W. Guy Finley]

Hello all!  Found this list after intensely studying Stan's Pentax  
page trying to figure out what in the world I was doing with lenses  
for my new baby.

I learned on my dad's K1000 (more later) and after a hiatus until  
early adulthood I got back into photography but went Canon with an  
EOS-3 and a Tokina 28-80/2.8 as my mainstay lens and a couple of  
primes.  I went broke feeding film into that camera so when digital  
started hitting it big I grabbed a Canon G3 and ditched my EOS  
system.  I then had a Sigma SD-9 and then a Sony DMC-V1 that I went  
to the extent of getting a Metz 50 MZ-5 system for.

The Sony has long since been wanting to be retired so I started  
looking at another bridge camera.  That's when I saw reviews for the  
new Pentax K digitals.  I had thought about an ist-D a bit back but  
never made the leap.  I went and found the trusty K1000 and sure  
enough the M 50/2 and Takumar 135/2.8 were still with it.  Not the  
best lenses in the world but hey, a start.  When I saw these would  
work with the new digitals I  made the leap and went for K110D  
deciding I really didn't need shake reduction.

After much confusion and screwing up of my order I ended up getting  
the kit lens which isn't too bad but after doing my first Christmas  
photos in Lightroom and PS CS3 beta I saw just how many shots I was  
taking at 50 or 55mm.  I was going to get an ultra-wide zoom but  
decided to get some manual primes instead given these results but I  
can't find an FA50 in stock anywhere with a UPC intact (with the  
Pentax rebates going on I wonder where those UPCs went?? h).

After much debate, back and forth, etc, I picked up an A 50/1.4 from  
KEH and saw by complete accident an M 28/3.5 at Adorama and grabbed  
both along with the new Metz SCA adapter so hopefully I should be  
doing some decent flash work soon.  I did Christmas completely in RAW  
with the kit lens, the M 50 and the Takumar and I was really pleased  
with how the shots came out aside from the obligatory tweaking I had  
to do in Lightroom and PS.  After working with JPEGs for a long time  
since the SD-9 (which has a proprietary RAW) working in a RAW  
workflow is a godsend.  It was actually a joy to work in Lightroom  
and then send images that needed more care over to PS if they needed  
it and then have Lightroom recognize the PS update and add that to  
the shoot.  Adobe has been doing some great work there.

So, I look forward to tips and suggestions, any thoughts on lens  
areas I may wish to fill in would be welcome.  I'm considering  
holding out a few months until the new f2.8 zooms come out, the  
17-50/2.8 likely being the prime target.

  My meager start is up at http://www.flickr.com/photos/wgfinley

Thanks,
Guy

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Re: Introduction

[Kostas Kavoussanakis]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006, W. Guy Finley wrote:

> Hello all! Found this list after intensely studying Stan's Pentax

Welcome. Stan is great ;-)

> both along with the new Metz SCA adapter so hopefully I should be

Not sure this will work with the K110D.

> So, I look forward to tips and suggestions, any thoughts on lens
> areas I may wish to fill in would be welcome.

So, you stopped film because of cost but ask *this list* for 
"enablement" suggestions. A-ha. How deep are your pockets? I joined 
the list with 2 lenses and have lost count of how many I have since 
bought, traded, kept, used... :-)

Kostas

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Cotty]

On 29/12/06, David Savage, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I work in a field where I come into contact with a lot of "educated"
>people. While most of them are smart, there a also quite a few who
>aren't, no matter what the piece of paper hanging on the wall
>proclaims.

I work in a field.

-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



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Re: Question about DNG

[John Francis]

On Fri, Dec 29, 2006 at 07:25:51AM +0200, Boris Liberman wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Well, George, I hear what you're saying. I just installed Pentax 
> Software from the CD that came with the camera. None of my DNG files 
> displays the lens name in the browser. It displays "-- --" sign 
> obviously meaning that it wasn't recorded.

I don't think that's at all obvious.  I suspect that although the
software knows enough about Pentax MakerNote IFDs as found in PEFs
and JPEGS it doesn't understand how to reconstruct a MakerNote from
the contents of the DNGPrivateData tag, which is what is in DNGs.

I've poked around a little inside a K10D DNG file, and there is a
DNGPrivateData tag in the main IFD, which is more than long enough
to contain the MakerNote data (and the extra JPEG thumbnail) from
the JPEG produced at the same time using the RAW+JPEG option.
I haven't yet examined the DNGPrivateData in any detail, but when
I do I fully expect to find the same two-byte lens ID that is in
the MakerNote.


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Jostein Øksne]

On 12/29/06, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I work in a field.

With educated mud. :-)

Jostein

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Jostein Øksne]

On 12/29/06, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was wondering when this thread might turn to the tobacco habits of
> so many of our European friends. There are those among them who are
> quick to criticize the vehicle habits of Americans but staunchly
> defend their right to burn tobacco leaves all day long. A strange
> dichotomy.
> Paul

Paul,
Nobody in Europe are "staunchly defending their right to burn tobacco
leaves all day long" any more than the Californian bar guests that
Scott describes elsewhere in this thread.

According to numbers from WHO, the consumption of cigarettes in 1998
was 606 billions for Western Europe, and 451 billions for USA. Adjust
for population size, and the per capita consume is about the same in
the two regions.
Sources:
http://www.who.int/entity/tobacco/en/atlas8.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_USA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union


Another aspect is that tobacco is a cash crop. Just like cocaine,
opium, and cannabis it is intended solely for supporting a
nerve-system stimulating habit.. With the latter three, much effort
goes into encouraging farmers to produce other crops instead. That
would be nice for tobacco too.

And for the record of dichotomies, both USA and European countries are
among the top ten tobacco producers of the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco

There's virtually no difference in European and American positions on tobacco.


Except that Europeans smoke in smaller, less polluting cars.



Jostein

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Re: NewsAlert!

[Frits Wüthrich]

On Thursday 28 December 2006 19:33, Tom C wrote:
> Our venerable Father Pentax has just announced the release of an
> outstanding product due to meet with mass market approval and generate huge
> profits, far outstripping design and development costs:
>
> http://www.pentaximaging.com/footer/news_media_article?ArticleId=9524619
>
> Pictures at: http://www.pentaxtech.com/Products/scanners.html
>
> Get one now or get on a waiting list. :-)
>
>
> Tom C.
And big compliment to Pentax for supporting Linux for this product.
This seems to be in line with supporting DNG on the K10D as well, although 
that is no open source, it is wider accepted then PEF, certainly in the 
beginning when the software builders have no support yet for the K10D PEF.
-- 
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RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Bob W]

> There's virtually no difference in European and American 
> positions on tobacco.
> 
> 
> Except that Europeans smoke in smaller, less polluting cars.
> 
> 

...and the French in particular have nicer bars to do it in (for a
little while longer), and a certain Sartrian je m'en fous-tism in the
way they do it.

Bob


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RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Bob W]

> Another aspect is that tobacco is a cash crop. Just like cocaine,
> opium, and cannabis it is intended solely for supporting a
> nerve-system stimulating habit.. With the latter three, much effort
> goes into encouraging farmers to produce other crops instead. That
> would be nice for tobacco too.
> 

it is the wrong approach for all four though. The correct approach is
to legalise them all, and have them distributed & consumed in licenced
premises. 

Regards
Bob


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Re: *istD AF

[Frits Wüthrich]

And less then two hours after writing that, the mailman stopped and delivered 
a package. I have not much time now left for PDML as you understand.

On Thursday 28 December 2006 13:03, Jens Bladt wrote:
> Frits wrote:
> I wish the mail man would stop by and hand me my K10D.
>
> I'm sure he will - if you order one :-)
>
> I will be ordering mine some time in April - from Germany - TeKaDe or
> whatever - hoping it's still available at that time.
> I am planning to skip the 6th holliday week, which will then pay for most
> of my K10D. This way it's almost free :-)
>
> Regards
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> Frits Wüthrich
> Sendt: 28. december 2006 12:03
> Til: pdml@pdml.net
> Emne: Re: *istD AF
>
>
> Nice shots. You have a very big DOF, which also helps. I am shooting sports
> with the programline for highest shutterspeed, so lowest DOF. With a lens
> like mine at 150mm that is still f6.7, I am curious what the new f4
> 60-250mm lens will give for results in actual use.
>
> You have made me curious to find out how the *istD and K10D behave also in
> continous drive mode, which gives the AF system not much time to maintain
> focus. Perhaps pick a bicycle rider and make the 5 consecutive shots you
> asked for, and do this for both cameras. And also compare this with single
> drive mode results.
>
> I wish the mail man would stop by and hand me my K10D.
>
> Frits Wüthrich
>
> On Thursday 28 December 2006 09:47, Jens Bladt wrote:
> > For these shots I used Auto Selection of focus points.
> > Because the boys were a bit away from me, it worked surprisingly well
> > (the distance beteen me and the boys didn't change much):
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72157594200497565/show/
> > The four soccer-shots were taken within 2-3 seconds (according to the the
> > EXIF-data) between 19:35:10 and 19:35:12, July 15th 2006).
> > Regards
> >
> > Jens Bladt
> > http://www.jensbladt.dk
> > +45 56 63 77 11
> > +45 23 43 85 77
> > Skype: jensbladt248
> >
> > -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> > Jens Bladt
> > Sendt: 28. december 2006 09:25
> > Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > Emne: RE: *istD AF
> >
> >
> > Yes, so it seems. Only in the PDF-manaul this is page 72.
> > So, what does it do, when the subject is fixed and YOU move the CAMERA?
> >
> > It may work fine in theory. But in the real world, the images rarely turn
> > out sharp, if the subject is moving. I can say this because I used this
> > camera close to every day for 28 months, releasing the shutter appr.
> > 45000 times.
> > Perhaps the micro chip can cope (which I doubt), but the speed of the
>
> whole
>
> > system is still slow compared to the mayor players in the high end DSLR
> > segment.
> >
> > To me this is not very important, since I don't do sports photography
> > (perhaps the camera limitations are the real reason for this). When I
>
> shoot
>
> > images like these I use manual focus, because I can't release the shutter
> > at the decisive moment if I use AF:
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72057594101295335/show/
> >
> > For pro photographers this is obviously a major issue, since they tend to
> > choose faster cameras.
> > I plan to buy a K10D anyway, regardsless that it is using the same old
> > (2003) SAFOX VIII system.
> > Obviously the speed is is not a huge priority for Pentax. Luckily it's
> > the same for me.
> >
> > Regards
> > Jens Bladt
> > http://www.jensbladt.dk
> > +45 56 63 77 11
> > +45 23 43 85 77
> > Skype: jensbladt248
> >
> > -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> > Frits Wüthrich
> > Sendt: 27. december 2006 23:14
> > Til: pdml@pdml.net
> > Emne: Re: *istD AF
> >
> >
> > Taken from the *istD manual page 74:
> > "
> > The camera switches to predictive AF mode automatically when a moving
> > subject
> > is detected in AF.C (Continous mode).
> > "
> >
> > Frits Wüthrich
>
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>
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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Paul Stenquist]

I don't expect that cigarette manufacture transportation and 
consumption are more important than cars in regard to air quality, but 
they are relevant. You said that they are not.
Paul
On Dec 28, 2006, at 11:33 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote:

> Honestly no. Not figures. But I'll look into it.
>
> While I do that, why don't you answer why you find this more important 
> than
> cars?
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Paul
> Stenquist
> Sent: 29. desember 2006 05:16
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>
> I wasn't discussing your personal habits. I was discussing the
> personal habits of the millions of cigarette smokers worldwide, many
> of who reside in countries that are most critical of American habits
> and practices. I'm not sure that the pollution they generate is
> insignificant. Do you have facts and figures?
> Paul
> On Dec 28, 2006, at 11:04 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote:
>
>> If you won't to debate my personal habits, why don't pick something
>> more
>> important like the use of my car?
>>
>> I believe I know the answer to my question.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Paul
>> Stenquist
>> Sent: 29. desember 2006 04:49
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>>
>> I would guess that one smoker contributes very little to the
>> generation of CO2. On the other hand, I would expect that millions or
>> maybe even  billions of smokers burning tobacco leaves all day long
>> are a substantial part of the problem. I'm sure it should be part of
>> this thread. Why wouldn't it be?
>> Paul
>> On Dec 28, 2006, at 10:10 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote:
>>
>>> To put it simple (I like it simple). Smoking is plain stupidity.
>>> There many reasons why it is stupid. My personal life span is one
>>> example.
>>> You have listed several others.
>>>
>>> It is also an environmental problem. But not because of global
>>> heating. The
>>> impact on global heating is similar to the impact of a mouse fart.
>>> The
>>> environmental problem is in pesticides used when growing the
>>> tobacco. The
>>> other problem is all the chemicals used in making the end product.
>>> But those
>>> chemicals have no known impact on global heating.
>>>
>>> As I said. Bash on. I don't feel uncomfortable with it at all. But
>>> please do
>>> it in a thread unrelated to the global heating issue.
>>> Title the thread Tim is a liar and thief if you want to ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>> Behalf Of Tom
>>> C
>>> Sent: 29. desember 2006 02:22
>>> To: pdml@pdml.net
>>> Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>>>
 Aren't we going OT now?

 I have an urge to say that I don't feel that my smoking habits are
 the real
 issue. To me, this seems like a smokescreen (pun intended)
 cowering the
 real
 debate.

 But by all means, bash on if you feel uncomfortable debating.


 Tim
>>>
>>> How can you go OT on an OT? :-)
>>>
>>> Actually I think Bill's point is relevant. Why? Because we tend to
>>> view our
>>> own behavior as acceptable and normal and expect others to do the
>>> changing.
>>>
>>> However when the finger points back at us, we're uncomfortable.
>>>
>>> While little old you smoking X cigarettes a day may have a
>>> negligible effect
>>>
>>> on pollution on a global scale (just like other single persons
>>> taking long
>>> showers or driving gas-guzzling SUV's), it has a much larger effect
>>> when we
>>> shrink the picture down a little or when we look at the cumulative
>>> effect.
>>>
>>> Your behavior is clearly dichotomous...  Wanting to save the planet
>>> while at
>>>
>>> the same time almost assuredly shortening the time span of your
>>> existence on
>>>
>>> it, both lessening your time to enjoy it and the time you might
>>> have to make
>>>
>>> a difference.
>>>
>>> The cost in health care and missed productivity due to smoking
>>> related
>>> ailments is huge. Next calculate how much time and energy (human
>>> and fossil
>>> fuel) is wasted annually in an industry that essentially provides a
>>> delivery
>>>
>>> method for a drug that induces a slow suicide. Then there's the
>>> smoking
>>> mothers whose babies may have future health issues and possible
>>> lower IQ's,
>>> putting a bigger drain on health care and education systems.
>>>
>>> I'm not bashing you.  I'm not criticizing you. You work in the social
>>> welfare field though and are sure aware of the implications of one's
>>> personal behavior. OK, I just had to get that little one in. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom C.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> On 12/28/06, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> ---

Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Paul Stenquist]

I have to drive. I live in an area without public transportation, and 
my work is 40 miles from home.
Paul
On Dec 28, 2006, at 11:42 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote:

> I'll make a bet.
> If it turns out that I was wrong, then I'll give up smoking.
> Will you stop driving if I'm correct?
>
> I'm serious about my commitment, but not about your part of the deal.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Tim
> Øsleby
> Sent: 29. desember 2006 05:34
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>
> Honestly no. Not figures. But I'll look into it.
>
> While I do that, why don't you answer why you find this more important 
> than
> cars?
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Paul
> Stenquist
> Sent: 29. desember 2006 05:16
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>
> I wasn't discussing your personal habits. I was discussing the
> personal habits of the millions of cigarette smokers worldwide, many
> of who reside in countries that are most critical of American habits
> and practices. I'm not sure that the pollution they generate is
> insignificant. Do you have facts and figures?
> Paul
> On Dec 28, 2006, at 11:04 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote:
>
>> If you won't to debate my personal habits, why don't pick something
>> more
>> important like the use of my car?
>>
>> I believe I know the answer to my question.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Paul
>> Stenquist
>> Sent: 29. desember 2006 04:49
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>>
>> I would guess that one smoker contributes very little to the
>> generation of CO2. On the other hand, I would expect that millions or
>> maybe even  billions of smokers burning tobacco leaves all day long
>> are a substantial part of the problem. I'm sure it should be part of
>> this thread. Why wouldn't it be?
>> Paul
>> On Dec 28, 2006, at 10:10 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote:
>>
>>> To put it simple (I like it simple). Smoking is plain stupidity.
>>> There many reasons why it is stupid. My personal life span is one
>>> example.
>>> You have listed several others.
>>>
>>> It is also an environmental problem. But not because of global
>>> heating. The
>>> impact on global heating is similar to the impact of a mouse fart.
>>> The
>>> environmental problem is in pesticides used when growing the
>>> tobacco. The
>>> other problem is all the chemicals used in making the end product.
>>> But those
>>> chemicals have no known impact on global heating.
>>>
>>> As I said. Bash on. I don't feel uncomfortable with it at all. But
>>> please do
>>> it in a thread unrelated to the global heating issue.
>>> Title the thread Tim is a liar and thief if you want to ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>> Behalf Of Tom
>>> C
>>> Sent: 29. desember 2006 02:22
>>> To: pdml@pdml.net
>>> Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>>>
 Aren't we going OT now?

 I have an urge to say that I don't feel that my smoking habits are
 the real
 issue. To me, this seems like a smokescreen (pun intended)
 cowering the
 real
 debate.

 But by all means, bash on if you feel uncomfortable debating.


 Tim
>>>
>>> How can you go OT on an OT? :-)
>>>
>>> Actually I think Bill's point is relevant. Why? Because we tend to
>>> view our
>>> own behavior as acceptable and normal and expect others to do the
>>> changing.
>>>
>>> However when the finger points back at us, we're uncomfortable.
>>>
>>> While little old you smoking X cigarettes a day may have a
>>> negligible effect
>>>
>>> on pollution on a global scale (just like other single persons
>>> taking long
>>> showers or driving gas-guzzling SUV's), it has a much larger effect
>>> when we
>>> shrink the picture down a little or when we look at the cumulative
>>> effect.
>>>
>>> Your behavior is clearly dichotomous...  Wanting to save the planet
>>> while at
>>>
>>> the same time almost assuredly shortening the time span of your
>>> existence on
>>>
>>> it, both lessening your time to enjoy it and the time you might
>>> have to make
>>>
>>> a difference.
>>>
>>> The cost in health care and missed productivity due to smoking
>>> related
>>> ailments is huge. Next calculate how much time and energy (human
>>> and fossil
>>> fuel) is wasted annually in an industry that essentially provides a
>>> delivery
>>>
>>> method for a drug that induces a slow suicide. Then there's the
>>> smoking
>>> mothers whose babies may have future health issues and possible
>>> lower IQ's,
>>> putting a bi

Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Paul Stenquist]

It has a continuously variable transmission.
Paul
On Dec 29, 2006, at 12:47 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

> On Dec 28, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
>
>> Only difference over a regular car would be some electronics, electric
>> motor, and batteries.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by this. Yes, it does use a four cylinder
> internal combustion engine and a differential, suspension and brakes.
> As a difference, it has no transmission, no starter motor, two drive/
> generator motors, and a drive battery pack in addition to the
> standard 12V gel cell battery that your car uses.
>
>> What is the pollution associated with creating
>> and disposing of the batteries over the life of the car?
>
> I couldn't tell you what kind of pollution is associated with the
> battery manufacture specifically for the cars, although we all know
> it is a manufacturing process with similar kinds of pollution to the
> creation of most of your daily household use items like kitchen
> appliances, stereo, television, etc. It's not like a battery
> manufacturing process was created out of nothing specifically and
> only for these automobiles.  They're made through the same
> manufacturers/plants that make camera batteries, for instance, and
> batteries for other applications
>
> The battery is fully warranted for 8 years and 100,000 miles, and
> it's designed to be recyclable (as is most of the rest of the car as
> well). I doubt the vehicle's lifespan is just that, or that the
> battery will last only that long, but it's a heck of a lot better for
> the environment that everything was designed for recycling in the
> first place.
>
> Godfrey
>
>
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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Bob Shell]

On Dec 28, 2006, at 12:28 AM, William Robb wrote:

> Using the Patriot Act was a cheap shot, but it is the cudgel of the  
> moment,
> and we have our own version of it here, though I think it is in  
> front of our
> Supreme Court at them moment deciding if it is consitutional or not.

If it's not unconstitutional under your constitution, you're welcome  
to use ours.  We haven't been using it for some years now.

Bob




"Of all of the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny of
religion is the worst."--Thomas Paine



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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Bob Sullivan]

Godfrey,

I've met your car in person and think it is pretty neat.
The only think that I can imagine is exotic about it is the batteries.
I was just inquiring if you knew how exotic or not they were.

For the past 30 years, various incarnations of the electric car have
been discussed.  The issue has always been energy density & power to
weight ratios for the batteries.  Sometimes very exotic materials were
used to meet requirements, without much thought of pollution.

Regards,  Bob S.

On 12/28/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Dec 28, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
>
> > Only difference over a regular car would be some electronics, electric
> > motor, and batteries.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by this. Yes, it does use a four cylinder
> internal combustion engine and a differential, suspension and brakes.
> As a difference, it has no transmission, no starter motor, two drive/
> generator motors, and a drive battery pack in addition to the
> standard 12V gel cell battery that your car uses.
>
> > What is the pollution associated with creating
> > and disposing of the batteries over the life of the car?
>
> I couldn't tell you what kind of pollution is associated with the
> battery manufacture specifically for the cars, although we all know
> it is a manufacturing process with similar kinds of pollution to the
> creation of most of your daily household use items like kitchen
> appliances, stereo, television, etc. It's not like a battery
> manufacturing process was created out of nothing specifically and
> only for these automobiles.  They're made through the same
> manufacturers/plants that make camera batteries, for instance, and
> batteries for other applications
>
> The battery is fully warranted for 8 years and 100,000 miles, and
> it's designed to be recyclable (as is most of the rest of the car as
> well). I doubt the vehicle's lifespan is just that, or that the
> battery will last only that long, but it's a heck of a lot better for
> the environment that everything was designed for recycling in the
> first place.
>
> Godfrey
>
>
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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Bob Sullivan]

This discussion is so silly.
My mother died from 2nd hand smoke.
She was never a smoker.
My father quit in his early thirties.
She spent the last years of her life with a big oxygen bottle at her side 24x7.
Bob S.

On 12/29/06, Jostein Øksne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 12/29/06, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I was wondering when this thread might turn to the tobacco habits of
> > so many of our European friends. There are those among them who are
> > quick to criticize the vehicle habits of Americans but staunchly
> > defend their right to burn tobacco leaves all day long. A strange
> > dichotomy.
> > Paul
>
> Paul,
> Nobody in Europe are "staunchly defending their right to burn tobacco
> leaves all day long" any more than the Californian bar guests that
> Scott describes elsewhere in this thread.
>
> According to numbers from WHO, the consumption of cigarettes in 1998
> was 606 billions for Western Europe, and 451 billions for USA. Adjust
> for population size, and the per capita consume is about the same in
> the two regions.
> Sources:
> http://www.who.int/entity/tobacco/en/atlas8.pdf
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_USA
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union
>
>
> Another aspect is that tobacco is a cash crop. Just like cocaine,
> opium, and cannabis it is intended solely for supporting a
> nerve-system stimulating habit.. With the latter three, much effort
> goes into encouraging farmers to produce other crops instead. That
> would be nice for tobacco too.
>
> And for the record of dichotomies, both USA and European countries are
> among the top ten tobacco producers of the world.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco
>
> There's virtually no difference in European and American positions on tobacco.
>
> 
> Except that Europeans smoke in smaller, less polluting cars.
> 
>
>
> Jostein
>
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Re: ot Winblows NT assistance

[David J Brooks]

Quoting Digital Image Studio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On 29/12/06, David J Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I run two NT machines now at work.
>>
>> Hey, didi i tell you, i'm a mapper now.:-)
>>
>> Anywho, i seem to not be able to open anything on my web site.
>>
>> Can someone who has NT try and open any link from my 2006 show links.
>>
>> I cannot do it with the work computers. I can open the main page but
>> nothing in the site,
>>
>> I have internmet access for my survey searching work, so i know its  
>>  not that.
>>
>> Any help is apprecieated
>
> I'd speak with your IT guys, you may have restricted access.

She'll be over later this morning. We are in a seperate building from  
the main office.

Funny i can open links on my site from the XP and 2000 machines, just  
not any NT machine.

Dave
>
> --
> Rob Studdert
> HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
> Tel +61-2-9554-4110
> UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/
> Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
>
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Equine Photography in York Region

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Re: NewsAlert!

[Thibouille]

Still wish they could implement DNG compression.

2006/12/29, Frits Wüthrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Thursday 28 December 2006 19:33, Tom C wrote:
> > Our venerable Father Pentax has just announced the release of an
> > outstanding product due to meet with mass market approval and generate huge
> > profits, far outstripping design and development costs:
> >
> > http://www.pentaximaging.com/footer/news_media_article?ArticleId=9524619
> >
> > Pictures at: http://www.pentaxtech.com/Products/scanners.html
> >
> > Get one now or get on a waiting list. :-)
> >
> >
> > Tom C.
> And big compliment to Pentax for supporting Linux for this product.
> This seems to be in line with supporting DNG on the K10D as well, although
> that is no open source, it is wider accepted then PEF, certainly in the
> beginning when the software builders have no support yet for the K10D PEF.
> --
> Frits Wüthrich
>
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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Bob Shell]

On 12/28/06 4:04 PM, "P. J. Alling", <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> If the arctic ice
> is melting as fast as some seem to think, Polar Bears will be extinct
> long before anything done to stop it takes effect.
>

Or they will change their behavior to adapt to the new conditions.   
The arctic has been ice-free in the past.  Those that adapt to new  
conditions will reproduce, carrying on their genetic lines.

If none adapt, then it was their time to go as a species.  Did anyone  
mourn the extinction of cave bears in Europe?  Most species that ever  
existed are extinct now.  The idea that we must preserve each and  
every living species is pretty silly.

Bob

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Bob Shell]

On Dec 28, 2006, at 10:10 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote:

> To put it simple (I like it simple). Smoking is plain stupidity.
> There many reasons why it is stupid. My personal life span is one  
> example.
> You have listed several others.
>
> It is also an environmental problem. But not because of global  
> heating. The
> impact on global heating is similar to the impact of a mouse fart. The
> environmental problem is in pesticides used when growing the tobacco.


Oh, you're talking about smoking tobacco!!!  I didn't realize..

Bob
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RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tim Øsleby]

Yep. There is a  of a difference between carbon monoxyde and dioxide. My
bad. It was late yesterday. But I still mean what I said. I'm curious about
this. I'll look into it later today. 


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
keith_w
Sent: 29. desember 2006 08:44
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

William Robb wrote:
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Tim Øsleby" Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?
> 
> 
>> I could do a simple study on my own. Concentrate on Norway. There are
>> studies on the amount of CO2 from our car park. We also have pretty good
>> statistics on the smoking habits here. The only hard part is find the
amount
>> of CO2 released when smoking. The rest is basic math.
>> 
>> This may sound like a silly waste of time, but silly is my middle name.
>> 
>> It wouldn't be science, but it could tell us something.

I wonder if Tim's CO2 data is really CO?

> According to one of my wife's cigarette packs:
> per unit:
> Co: 12-30 mg

Just to be perfectly clear, that's carbon monoxide!
Same nasty stuff that comes from a tailpipe of your car. The stuff of 
accidental and purposeful suicides...

> Formaldehyde: 0.045-0.13 mg
> Hydrogen Cyanide (Cyanide fer the love of Pete!!): 0.096-0.27 mg
> Benzene: 0.042-0.093 mg.
> 
> This is what they say comes out of the cigarette, not the smoker...
> 
> William Robb 

keith whaley
Former smoker.
Still find the occasional craving, awfully glad I'm off 'em at last!


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RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tim Øsleby]

Except that Europeans smoke in smaller, less polluting cars. 

Thanks for giving me a good laugh.


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Jostein Øksne
Sent: 29. desember 2006 11:01
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

On 12/29/06, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was wondering when this thread might turn to the tobacco habits of
> so many of our European friends. There are those among them who are
> quick to criticize the vehicle habits of Americans but staunchly
> defend their right to burn tobacco leaves all day long. A strange
> dichotomy.
> Paul

Paul,
Nobody in Europe are "staunchly defending their right to burn tobacco
leaves all day long" any more than the Californian bar guests that
Scott describes elsewhere in this thread.

According to numbers from WHO, the consumption of cigarettes in 1998
was 606 billions for Western Europe, and 451 billions for USA. Adjust
for population size, and the per capita consume is about the same in
the two regions.
Sources:
http://www.who.int/entity/tobacco/en/atlas8.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_USA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union


Another aspect is that tobacco is a cash crop. Just like cocaine,
opium, and cannabis it is intended solely for supporting a
nerve-system stimulating habit.. With the latter three, much effort
goes into encouraging farmers to produce other crops instead. That
would be nice for tobacco too.

And for the record of dichotomies, both USA and European countries are
among the top ten tobacco producers of the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco

There's virtually no difference in European and American positions on
tobacco.


Except that Europeans smoke in smaller, less polluting cars.



Jostein

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RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tim Øsleby]

I am very sorry to hear this. Seriously. 
Passive smoking is really bad. 

You say the debate is silly. Do you mean that it makes you feel bad? If it
does, then I'll stop. I don't want to hurt you Bob.


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob
Sullivan
Sent: 29. desember 2006 13:51
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

This discussion is so silly.
My mother died from 2nd hand smoke.
She was never a smoker.
My father quit in his early thirties.
She spent the last years of her life with a big oxygen bottle at her side
24x7.
Bob S.

On 12/29/06, Jostein Øksne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 12/29/06, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I was wondering when this thread might turn to the tobacco habits of
> > so many of our European friends. There are those among them who are
> > quick to criticize the vehicle habits of Americans but staunchly
> > defend their right to burn tobacco leaves all day long. A strange
> > dichotomy.
> > Paul
>
> Paul,
> Nobody in Europe are "staunchly defending their right to burn tobacco
> leaves all day long" any more than the Californian bar guests that
> Scott describes elsewhere in this thread.
>
> According to numbers from WHO, the consumption of cigarettes in 1998
> was 606 billions for Western Europe, and 451 billions for USA. Adjust
> for population size, and the per capita consume is about the same in
> the two regions.
> Sources:
> http://www.who.int/entity/tobacco/en/atlas8.pdf
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_USA
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union
>
>
> Another aspect is that tobacco is a cash crop. Just like cocaine,
> opium, and cannabis it is intended solely for supporting a
> nerve-system stimulating habit.. With the latter three, much effort
> goes into encouraging farmers to produce other crops instead. That
> would be nice for tobacco too.
>
> And for the record of dichotomies, both USA and European countries are
> among the top ten tobacco producers of the world.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco
>
> There's virtually no difference in European and American positions on
tobacco.
>
> 
> Except that Europeans smoke in smaller, less polluting cars.
> 
>
>
> Jostein
>
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RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tim Øsleby]

I assumed you have to drive. That's why I said that I was not serious about
your part of the deal. 

But if it turns out that smoking is significant, then I can't defend my bad
habit towards the planet. 

But I may have been a bit too big mouthed. How do we define significant.
This I have no idea about. 
Before I start looking into it, what do you suggest? 


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul
Stenquist
Sent: 29. desember 2006 12:50
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

I have to drive. I live in an area without public transportation, and 
my work is 40 miles from home.
Paul
On Dec 28, 2006, at 11:42 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote:

> I'll make a bet.
> If it turns out that I was wrong, then I'll give up smoking.
> Will you stop driving if I'm correct?
>
> I'm serious about my commitment, but not about your part of the deal.
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Tim
> Øsleby
> Sent: 29. desember 2006 05:34
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>
> Honestly no. Not figures. But I'll look into it.
>
> While I do that, why don't you answer why you find this more important 
> than
> cars?
>
>
> Tim
> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Paul
> Stenquist
> Sent: 29. desember 2006 05:16
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>
> I wasn't discussing your personal habits. I was discussing the
> personal habits of the millions of cigarette smokers worldwide, many
> of who reside in countries that are most critical of American habits
> and practices. I'm not sure that the pollution they generate is
> insignificant. Do you have facts and figures?
> Paul
> On Dec 28, 2006, at 11:04 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote:
>
>> If you won't to debate my personal habits, why don't pick something
>> more
>> important like the use of my car?
>>
>> I believe I know the answer to my question.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Paul
>> Stenquist
>> Sent: 29. desember 2006 04:49
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>>
>> I would guess that one smoker contributes very little to the
>> generation of CO2. On the other hand, I would expect that millions or
>> maybe even  billions of smokers burning tobacco leaves all day long
>> are a substantial part of the problem. I'm sure it should be part of
>> this thread. Why wouldn't it be?
>> Paul
>> On Dec 28, 2006, at 10:10 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote:
>>
>>> To put it simple (I like it simple). Smoking is plain stupidity.
>>> There many reasons why it is stupid. My personal life span is one
>>> example.
>>> You have listed several others.
>>>
>>> It is also an environmental problem. But not because of global
>>> heating. The
>>> impact on global heating is similar to the impact of a mouse fart.
>>> The
>>> environmental problem is in pesticides used when growing the
>>> tobacco. The
>>> other problem is all the chemicals used in making the end product.
>>> But those
>>> chemicals have no known impact on global heating.
>>>
>>> As I said. Bash on. I don't feel uncomfortable with it at all. But
>>> please do
>>> it in a thread unrelated to the global heating issue.
>>> Title the thread Tim is a liar and thief if you want to ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>> Behalf Of Tom
>>> C
>>> Sent: 29. desember 2006 02:22
>>> To: pdml@pdml.net
>>> Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>>>
 Aren't we going OT now?

 I have an urge to say that I don't feel that my smoking habits are
 the real
 issue. To me, this seems like a smokescreen (pun intended)
 cowering the
 real
 debate.

 But by all means, bash on if you feel uncomfortable debating.


 Tim
>>>
>>> How can you go OT on an OT? :-)
>>>
>>> Actually I think Bill's point is relevant. Why? Because we tend to
>>> view our
>>> own behavior as acceptable and normal and expect others to do the
>>> changing.
>>>
>>> However when the finger points back at us, we're uncomfortable.
>>>
>>> While little old you smoking X cigarettes a day may have a
>>> negligible effect
>>>
>>> on pollution on a global scale (just like other single persons
>>> taking long
>>> showers or driving gas-guzzling SUV's), it has a much larger effect
>>> when we
>>> shrink the picture down a little or when we look at the cumulative
>>> effect.
>>>
>>> Your behavior is clearly dichotomous...  Wanting to save the planet
>>> while at
>>>
>>> the same time 

Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Jostein Øksne]

Sorry about your mother, Bob S.

With all respect, what do you find silly about the discussion?

Jostein

On 12/29/06, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This discussion is so silly.
> My mother died from 2nd hand smoke.
> She was never a smoker.
> My father quit in his early thirties.
> She spent the last years of her life with a big oxygen bottle at her side 
> 24x7.
> Bob S.
>
> On 12/29/06, Jostein Øksne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 12/29/06, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I was wondering when this thread might turn to the tobacco habits of
> > > so many of our European friends. There are those among them who are
> > > quick to criticize the vehicle habits of Americans but staunchly
> > > defend their right to burn tobacco leaves all day long. A strange
> > > dichotomy.
> > > Paul
> >
> > Paul,
> > Nobody in Europe are "staunchly defending their right to burn tobacco
> > leaves all day long" any more than the Californian bar guests that
> > Scott describes elsewhere in this thread.
> >
> > According to numbers from WHO, the consumption of cigarettes in 1998
> > was 606 billions for Western Europe, and 451 billions for USA. Adjust
> > for population size, and the per capita consume is about the same in
> > the two regions.
> > Sources:
> > http://www.who.int/entity/tobacco/en/atlas8.pdf
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_USA
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union
> >
> >
> > Another aspect is that tobacco is a cash crop. Just like cocaine,
> > opium, and cannabis it is intended solely for supporting a
> > nerve-system stimulating habit.. With the latter three, much effort
> > goes into encouraging farmers to produce other crops instead. That
> > would be nice for tobacco too.
> >
> > And for the record of dichotomies, both USA and European countries are
> > among the top ten tobacco producers of the world.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco
> >
> > There's virtually no difference in European and American positions on 
> > tobacco.
> >
> > 
> > Except that Europeans smoke in smaller, less polluting cars.
> > 
> >
> >
> > Jostein
> >
> > --
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >
>
> --
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Re: Introduction

[W. Guy Finley]

On Dec 29, 2006, at 2:43 AM, Kostas Kavoussanakis wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Dec 2006, W. Guy Finley wrote:
>
>> Hello all! Found this list after intensely studying Stan's Pentax
>
> Welcome. Stan is great ;-)
>
>> both along with the new Metz SCA adapter so hopefully I should be
>
> Not sure this will work with the K110D.
>

Yeah, I checked with Metz' site before I purchased, it uses the same  
adapter the *ist D et al have been using, the K100D and K10D are  
supported as well.

>> So, I look forward to tips and suggestions, any thoughts on lens
>> areas I may wish to fill in would be welcome.
>
> So, you stopped film because of cost but ask *this list* for
> "enablement" suggestions. A-ha. How deep are your pockets? I joined
> the list with 2 lenses and have lost count of how many I have since
> bought, traded, kept, used... :-)
>
> Kostas
>

LOL, very true!  However, I remember shooting ten rolls in a weekend  
and bringing them down to the camera shop.  I can fondly remember  
forking over $200 on several occasions for the 10 rolls to be  
developed, another 10 rolls of film and whatever other consumables I  
needed.  Maybe I should have just had them develop without prints but  
I was young and stupid, what can I say.  All I can say is thank God  
for digital, I can shoot to my heart's content and not worry about  
putting myself in the poor house.

--Guy

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Re: Introduction

[W. Guy Finley]

On Dec 29, 2006, at 9:06 AM, David J Brooks wrote:

> Quoting "W. Guy Finley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> LOL, very true!  However, I remember shooting ten rolls in a weekend
>> and bringing them down to the camera shop.  I can fondly remember
>> forking over $200 on several occasions for the 10 rolls to be
>> developed, another 10 rolls of film and whatever other consumables I
>> needed.  Maybe I should have just had them develop without prints but
>> I was young and stupid, what can I say.  All I can say is thank God
>> for digital, I can shoot to my heart's content and not worry about
>> putting myself in the poor house.
>
> LOL
>
> I switched to digital in 2001, and I AM in the poor house now.
>
> Dave
>
> Welcome BTW


Well, I'm sure you have much cooler stuff in the poor house with you  
than you would if you were still shooting film!

--Guy

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Re: Introduction

[David J Brooks]

Quoting "W. Guy Finley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> LOL, very true!  However, I remember shooting ten rolls in a weekend
> and bringing them down to the camera shop.  I can fondly remember
> forking over $200 on several occasions for the 10 rolls to be
> developed, another 10 rolls of film and whatever other consumables I
> needed.  Maybe I should have just had them develop without prints but
> I was young and stupid, what can I say.  All I can say is thank God
> for digital, I can shoot to my heart's content and not worry about
> putting myself in the poor house.

LOL

I switched to digital in 2001, and I AM in the poor house now.

Dave

Welcome BTW
>
> --Guy
>
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>



Equine Photography in York Region

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Re: NewsAlert!

[rg2]

is 300 dpi good?  i don't know anything about scanners.

rg2

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long lost

[rg2]

Hey you guys!

My name is Rebekah, I used to participate in the list about two years ago. 
If any of you recall me, I was in college at the time, and now I have gotten 
hitched, moved to Charleston, South Carolina, and had a second child.  Here 
is a picture of my son, Peter, and daughter, Bella.

http://www.photolava.com/view/jk2.html
http://www.photolava.com/view/jkb.html


So, I'm hoping to rejoin the discussions, or at least read all the stuff 
zipping back and forth between you guys.  It's nice to see some familiar 
posters, and of course, a few of the same topics going on.  I am, just to 
verify, Robert Gonzalez's daughter, and yes, it is very much his fault that 
I am a overzealously dedicated Pentax devotee.  Hope you guys have a great 
New Years Eve, and by the way, does anyone know the PUG theme for February?


rg2


 "Hi, you have reached the Borg collective. Please leave your name and star 
system and we'll assimilate you as soon as we can." 


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Scott Loveless]

On 12/29/06, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Dec 28, 2006, at 10:10 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote:
>
> > To put it simple (I like it simple). Smoking is plain stupidity.
> > There many reasons why it is stupid. My personal life span is one
> > example.
> > You have listed several others.
> >
> > It is also an environmental problem. But not because of global
> > heating. The
> > impact on global heating is similar to the impact of a mouse fart. The
> > environmental problem is in pesticides used when growing the tobacco.
>
>
> Oh, you're talking about smoking tobacco!!!  I didn't realize..
>
How about the nicotine used in organic gardening?  
http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/4DMG/VegFruit/organic.htm


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Re: Crossed polarization techniques

[ann sanfedele]

? - Ok I need reschooling in this...
I don't remember exactly what I wrote before to him (or who was asking:) 
) but someone said
to cross nichols with the lens on the camera and the polarized sheet on 
the light source before
you shoot - the object being shot would not be between light sources.  

my knowlege of crossed polarization comes from looking at thin sections 
of rock through a
microscope where the crossed nichols (maybe spelling this wrong, memory 
is fading)
create birefringence.

MY idea that was perhaps not scientific was to put a polarizer on two 
light sources, then
look through the camera at each with the polarizer on the camera and on 
the sources until
it is totally blacked out

the 45 degree angle of two light sources is often a good way to shoot a 
still object for
minimizing reflections, yes?

polarized glass at right angles to each other totally blocks out light
(you didnt leave in what the guy who asked the question first and my 
original suggestion
was - so maybe I'm just misunderstanding you)

ann the easily confused

Glen Berry wrote:

>ann sanfedele wrote:
>
>  
>
>>instead of using flashes, can you set up two light sources at 45 degree 
>>angles with polarizing sheets on them?
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>The angle for maximum glare reduction is 90 degrees. In other words, one 
>polarizer oriented vertically, and the other oriented horizontally.
>
>
>  
>



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Re: Introduction

[Scott Loveless]

On 12/29/06, W. Guy Finley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello all!  Found this list after intensely studying Stan's Pentax
> page trying to figure out what in the world I was doing with lenses
> for my new baby.
>
> I learned on my dad's K1000 (more later) and after a hiatus until
> early adulthood I got back into photography but went Canon with an
> EOS-3 and a Tokina 28-80/2.8 as my mainstay lens and a couple of
> primes.  I went broke feeding film into that camera so when digital
> started hitting it big I grabbed a Canon G3 and ditched my EOS
> system.  I then had a Sigma SD-9 and then a Sony DMC-V1 that I went
> to the extent of getting a Metz 50 MZ-5 system for.
>
> The Sony has long since been wanting to be retired so I started
> looking at another bridge camera.  That's when I saw reviews for the
> new Pentax K digitals.  I had thought about an ist-D a bit back but
> never made the leap.  I went and found the trusty K1000 and sure
> enough the M 50/2 and Takumar 135/2.8 were still with it.  Not the
> best lenses in the world but hey, a start.  When I saw these would
> work with the new digitals I  made the leap and went for K110D
> deciding I really didn't need shake reduction.

The M50/2, while not the best of the Pentax 50s, is certainly a good
lens.  Common wisdom dictates that it's almost impossible to come
across a dog of a 50.  I have that lens and an M50/1.7.  The 50/1.7 is
slightly sharper and it does get mounted on the K100 from time to
time.  I mostly shoot B&W film and actually prefer the contrast of the
50/2 for that application.  Of course, this is a matter of personal
taste.  I've never mounted the 50/2 on a digital body so I really
can't comment on that.

>
> After much confusion and screwing up of my order I ended up getting
> the kit lens which isn't too bad but after doing my first Christmas
> photos in Lightroom and PS CS3 beta I saw just how many shots I was
> taking at 50 or 55mm.  I was going to get an ultra-wide zoom but
> decided to get some manual primes instead given these results but I
> can't find an FA50 in stock anywhere with a UPC intact (with the
> Pentax rebates going on I wonder where those UPCs went?? h).
>
> After much debate, back and forth, etc, I picked up an A 50/1.4 from
> KEH and saw by complete accident an M 28/3.5 at Adorama and grabbed
> both along with the new Metz SCA adapter so hopefully I should be
> doing some decent flash work soon.  I did Christmas completely in RAW
> with the kit lens, the M 50 and the Takumar and I was really pleased
> with how the shots came out aside from the obligatory tweaking I had
> to do in Lightroom and PS.  After working with JPEGs for a long time
> since the SD-9 (which has a proprietary RAW) working in a RAW
> workflow is a godsend.  It was actually a joy to work in Lightroom
> and then send images that needed more care over to PS if they needed
> it and then have Lightroom recognize the PS update and add that to
> the shoot.  Adobe has been doing some great work there.

The M28/3.5 is very sharp.  At what they sell for it's a hell of a bargain.
>
> So, I look forward to tips and suggestions, any thoughts on lens
> areas I may wish to fill in would be welcome.  I'm considering
> holding out a few months until the new f2.8 zooms come out, the
> 17-50/2.8 likely being the prime target.
>
>   My meager start is up at http://www.flickr.com/photos/wgfinley
>
> Thanks,
> Guy
>
Welcome to the list.  Good to have you.

Your inbox is about to take a beating.  ;)

-- 
Scott Loveless
http://www.twosixteen.com
Shoot more film!

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Re: NewsAlert!

[Thibouille]

Not for current standards but... with a mobile use in mind, I do not
see any problem.
More than enough to scan an image for the web and more than enough to
scan a text even for OCR so why not?

I myself do rarely go beyond 300dpi (not speaking photography of course).

2006/12/29, rg2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> is 300 dpi good?  i don't know anything about scanners.
>
> rg2
>
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>


-- 

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--
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Re: Introduction

[Thibouille]

AFAIK current Metz flashes do not support P-TTL (well no adapter
supports it) but it should work nicely in auto mode. TTL is not
supported by KxxD Pentax bodies.

Again, Auto mode (A) should work fine.

2006/12/29, W. Guy Finley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hello all!  Found this list after intensely studying Stan's Pentax
> page trying to figure out what in the world I was doing with lenses
> for my new baby.
>
> I learned on my dad's K1000 (more later) and after a hiatus until
> early adulthood I got back into photography but went Canon with an
> EOS-3 and a Tokina 28-80/2.8 as my mainstay lens and a couple of
> primes.  I went broke feeding film into that camera so when digital
> started hitting it big I grabbed a Canon G3 and ditched my EOS
> system.  I then had a Sigma SD-9 and then a Sony DMC-V1 that I went
> to the extent of getting a Metz 50 MZ-5 system for.
>
> The Sony has long since been wanting to be retired so I started
> looking at another bridge camera.  That's when I saw reviews for the
> new Pentax K digitals.  I had thought about an ist-D a bit back but
> never made the leap.  I went and found the trusty K1000 and sure
> enough the M 50/2 and Takumar 135/2.8 were still with it.  Not the
> best lenses in the world but hey, a start.  When I saw these would
> work with the new digitals I  made the leap and went for K110D
> deciding I really didn't need shake reduction.
>
> After much confusion and screwing up of my order I ended up getting
> the kit lens which isn't too bad but after doing my first Christmas
> photos in Lightroom and PS CS3 beta I saw just how many shots I was
> taking at 50 or 55mm.  I was going to get an ultra-wide zoom but
> decided to get some manual primes instead given these results but I
> can't find an FA50 in stock anywhere with a UPC intact (with the
> Pentax rebates going on I wonder where those UPCs went?? h).
>
> After much debate, back and forth, etc, I picked up an A 50/1.4 from
> KEH and saw by complete accident an M 28/3.5 at Adorama and grabbed
> both along with the new Metz SCA adapter so hopefully I should be
> doing some decent flash work soon.  I did Christmas completely in RAW
> with the kit lens, the M 50 and the Takumar and I was really pleased
> with how the shots came out aside from the obligatory tweaking I had
> to do in Lightroom and PS.  After working with JPEGs for a long time
> since the SD-9 (which has a proprietary RAW) working in a RAW
> workflow is a godsend.  It was actually a joy to work in Lightroom
> and then send images that needed more care over to PS if they needed
> it and then have Lightroom recognize the PS update and add that to
> the shoot.  Adobe has been doing some great work there.
>
> So, I look forward to tips and suggestions, any thoughts on lens
> areas I may wish to fill in would be welcome.  I'm considering
> holding out a few months until the new f2.8 zooms come out, the
> 17-50/2.8 likely being the prime target.
>
>   My meager start is up at http://www.flickr.com/photos/wgfinley
>
> Thanks,
> Guy
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>


-- 

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Gonz]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Dec 28, 2006, at 10:57 AM, Gonz wrote:
> 
> 
>>Some of the most pompous, dumbest, and most ill informed people I know
>>have a college education, some of them with advanced degrees.  On the
>>flip side, some of the warmest, smartest people I know do not.
> 
> 
> So go buy a camera or lens designed by your warm, smart people  
> without an education.
> 
> Godfrey
> 

You would be surprised at how much "stuff" you use was dreamt up by 
those very people, so go live without it.

-- 
Someone handed me a picture and said, "This is a picture of me when I 
was younger." Every picture of you is when you were younger. "...Here's 
a picture of me when I'm older." Where'd you get that camera man?
- Mitch Hedberg

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Re: long lost

[David Savage]

On 12/30/06, rg2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey you guys!

G'day



> and by the way, does anyone know the PUG theme for February?


January - All Open
February - Duet
March - Black and White
April - Surprise
May - Blossom
June - Weather
July - Visual Pollution
August - Vacation
September - Strange
October - Autumn Colors
November - Opposites
December - Happy Feelings

Cheers,

Dave

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "David Savage" Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?


>
> That wholly depends on the person. A university degree won't make you 
> sexy.
>

Generally, it takes money to do that.

William Robb 


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?


>
> On Dec 28, 2006, at 10:06 PM, David Savage wrote:
>
 That wholly depends on the person. A university degree won't make
 you sexy.
>>>
>>> Of course. What do you think, educated people are stupid?
>>
>> Some are. Education & intelligence don't always go hand in hand.
>
> By continuing this line of stupidity, either you are insinuating that
> I am stupid or that you are uneducated and belligerently proud of it.
>

Umm, I think Dave answered a generality of yours with a generality of his
own.
Or are you implying that if one doesn't have a university degree, one isn't
intelligent?
You don't get to have it both ways.
BTW, my IQ measures out close to 140, but I didn't improve it by going to 
university.

William Robb


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Re: NewsAlert!

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "rg2" Subject: Re: NewsAlert!


> is 300 dpi good?  i don't know anything about scanners.

Flatbed?
It's not considered especially high res, but you'll find that any higher 
than that isn't going to gain you much.

Film?
Not high at all.

William Robb 


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 29, 2006, at 4:35 AM, Bob Sullivan wrote:

> I've met your car in person and think it is pretty neat.
> The only think that I can imagine is exotic about it is the batteries.
> I was just inquiring if you knew how exotic or not they were.

The battery pack is essentially an assembly of high-quality NiMH  
cells. This web page and several others has some more information  
about it:
   http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/ArticleID/4332/4332.html
They keep improving the battery technology, but I don't know that I'd  
call it particularly exotic. Automakers rarely use basic technology  
that is not warrantiable by being at the bleeding edge.

> For the past 30 years, various incarnations of the electric car have
> been discussed.  The issue has always been energy density & power to
> weight ratios for the batteries.  Sometimes very exotic materials were
> used to meet requirements, without much thought of pollution.

What was very exotic in the past has become de rigeur nowadays. NiMH  
didn't exist thirty years ago and would have been considered very  
exotic, nowadays you can buy NiMH batteries the size of an AA cell  
with 2600mAh capacity for $10 a set. Is it still exotic?

What is exotic about the Hybrid Synergy Drive, really, is the power  
flow and integration of the control system. There is no transmission  
as you would find in a conventional ICE powered automobile. Instead,  
it uses the ICE with a pair of electric motors coupled through a  
planetary gearset. The control system is what makes it work to  
deliver power as if it had a constantly variable transmission, by  
applying torque and direction of the three interlocked traction/ 
generating motors as appropriate to the demands of the moment,  
dynamically. This kind of system was not practical before solid  
state, cheap sensors and high-speed control logic became inexpensive  
enough to mass produce, reliable enough to become the bases for an  
automotive drive system.

Godfrey

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Re: Reducing Vignetting

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "John Celio"
Subject: Reducing Vignetting


>
> Anyone want to venture a guess as to an aperture setting for that lens 
> that
> would eliminate vignetting?  I want to use it for my panos instead of my 
> 100
> or 300mm lenses, but I can't stitch photos properly unless there's an even
> tone across the image.

Not a guess on that lens, but try shooting a blank wall at every aperture 
and look at the files. You'll figure out pretty quick where it stops 
vignetting.

>
> Also, anyone know if there's an upper limit to the dimensions of a PSD 
> file?
> I was trying to save my big stitch, but could only save in tiff or RAW
> formats, for some reason.

300,000 by 300,000 pixels (CS2)
Did you remember to convert to 8 bits?

William Robb 


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Bob Shell" 
Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?


> If none adapt, then it was their time to go as a species.  Did anyone  
> mourn the extinction of cave bears in Europe?  Most species that ever  
> existed are extinct now.  The idea that we must preserve each and  
> every living species is pretty silly.

The idea that we have the right to drive species to extinction is criminal.

William Robb

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Gonz]

Or just living where we do.  I live in a relatively hot climate, so the 
air conditioner runs quite a bit during the summer.  The amount of crap 
that gets burnt just to keep us "cool" is probably much more than I use 
in fossil fuels in other areas of my daily life, like driving.  The same 
with people who live in extreme northern climates, like Norway, Sweden, 
Finland, Siberia, etc.  These folks have the opposite problem, they have 
to heat their homes in the winter. How much fossil fuel is used to do 
that.  Should we all move to more moderate parts of the earth?  :)

rg


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I was wondering when this thread might turn to the tobacco habits of  
> so many of our European friends. There are those among them who are  
> quick to criticize the vehicle habits of Americans but staunchly  
> defend their right to burn tobacco leaves all day long. A strange  
> dichotomy.
> Paul
> On Dec 28, 2006, at 8:21 PM, Tom C wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Aren't we going OT now?
>>>
>>>I have an urge to say that I don't feel that my smoking habits are  
>>>the real
>>>issue. To me, this seems like a smokescreen (pun intended)  
>>>cowering the real
>>>debate.
>>>
>>>But by all means, bash on if you feel uncomfortable debating.
>>>
>>>
>>>Tim
>>
>>How can you go OT on an OT? :-)
>>
>>Actually I think Bill's point is relevant. Why? Because we tend to  
>>view our own behavior as acceptable and normal and expect others to  
>>do the changing.  However when the finger points back at us, we're  
>>uncomfortable.
>>
>>While little old you smoking X cigarettes a day may have a  
>>negligible effect on pollution on a global scale (just like other  
>>single persons taking long showers or driving gas-guzzling SUV's),  
>>it has a much larger effect when we shrink the picture down a  
>>little or when we look at the cumulative effect.
>>
>>Your behavior is clearly dichotomous...  Wanting to save the planet  
>>while at the same time almost assuredly shortening the time span of  
>>your existence on it, both lessening your time to enjoy it and the  
>>time you might have to make a difference.
>>
>>The cost in health care and missed productivity due to smoking  
>>related ailments is huge. Next calculate how much time and energy  
>>(human and fossil fuel) is wasted annually in an industry that  
>>essentially provides a delivery method for a drug that induces a  
>>slow suicide. Then there's the smoking mothers whose babies may  
>>have future health issues and possible lower IQ's, putting a bigger  
>>drain on health care and education systems.
>>
>>I'm not bashing you.  I'm not criticizing you. You work in the  
>>social welfare field though and are sure aware of the implications  
>>of one's personal behavior. OK, I just had to get that little one  
>>in. :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>Tom C.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
On 12/28/06, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>- Original Message -
>From: "Tim Øsleby" Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>
>
>
>>Agreed. That's why I smoke outside rain or cold. You could argue
>>that I
>>pollute the environment. That's true, but I don't think it is
>>significant.
>
>Tim, this is pretty much the argument that you have been on the
>other side
>of.
>No one person makes a significant impact, so why should any one
>person
>change their habits, be it driving a large vehicle, taking long
>hot showers
>or whatever else they do that is environmentally harmful?
>
>William Robb
>
>
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>

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>>>
>>>DagT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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> 
> 
> 

-- 
Someone handed me a picture and said, "This is a picture of me when I 
was younger." Every picture of you is when you were younger. "...Here's 
a picture of me when I'm older." Where'd you get that camera man?
- Mitch Hedberg

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 29, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Gonz wrote:

>>> Some of the most pompous, dumbest, and most ill informed people I  
>>> know
>>> have a college education, some of them with advanced degrees.  On  
>>> the
>>> flip side, some of the warmest, smartest people I know do not.
>>
>> So go buy a camera or lens designed by your warm, smart people
>> without an education.
>
> You would be surprised at how much "stuff" you use was dreamt up by
> those very people, so go live without it.

Your logic is flawed. Being able to dream up interesting things is  
one thing. Being able to engineer and manufacture them is quite  
another. I dreamt up the equivalent of today's video iPod when I was  
13 years old, watching a movie named "Robinson Crusoe On Mars". I  
drew sketches of a device that would play music, show videos, play  
broadcast radio, record voice and video, and would fit in my pocket.  
Tell me that someone without the deep knowledge of an engineering  
background could design and manufacture that kind of device ... and  
sell it profitably for a couple hundred dollars. I'll laugh in your  
face.

The men who invented the personal computer as we know it today did  
not have a degree at the time. They were self-educated by working in  
the industry, studying, and driven by their curiosity and  
motivations, relied upon the advice of those more educated than they  
when they ran into problems. At least one of them returned to  
schooling after becoming very successful financially because he  
recognized the value of the effort. I worked with them both and know  
them personally. They're very smart people, were smart both before  
and after education. One of them is a pain in the ass, the other a  
really great guy: these qualities are totally independent of both  
their intelligence and their education, which are likewise  
independent of each other as well.

Godfrey


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Shel Belinkoff]

What a fuckin' crock of shit.  There is a big difference between a species
becoming extinct naturally and its extinction at the hand of man through
our contribution to climate change.  I suppose it's OK for tigers to become
extinct through our predatory hunting practices.  It's their time ... how
many species are now extinct, or on the verge of extinction, because of man
or man's contribution to their demise.  Far too many, IMO.

Shel

> - Original Message - 
> From: "Bob Shell" 

> If none adapt, then it was their time to go as a species.  Did anyone  
> mourn the extinction of cave bears in Europe?  Most species that ever  
> existed are extinct now.  The idea that we must preserve each and  
> every living species is pretty silly.



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RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tim Øsleby]

I seem to recall you saying you did not want to take part in this debate ;-)
You must be really upset, using fucking' instead your usual effin ;-) 

This said. I totally agree :-)
 
I'll even throw in a, Bob, please return to the cave where you belong. 
(Disclaimer: I'm not attacking you personally Bob, just what you said)


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shel
Belinkoff
Sent: 29. desember 2006 17:07
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

What a fuckin' crock of shit.  There is a big difference between a species
becoming extinct naturally and its extinction at the hand of man through
our contribution to climate change.  I suppose it's OK for tigers to become
extinct through our predatory hunting practices.  It's their time ... how
many species are now extinct, or on the verge of extinction, because of man
or man's contribution to their demise.  Far too many, IMO.

Shel

> - Original Message - 
> From: "Bob Shell" 

> If none adapt, then it was their time to go as a species.  Did anyone  
> mourn the extinction of cave bears in Europe?  Most species that ever  
> existed are extinct now.  The idea that we must preserve each and  
> every living species is pretty silly.



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Re: Introduction

[Shel Belinkoff]

I used an M50/2 on Bruce's istD and found that it worked well as a nice
portrait lens. I think it works very well in that situation.  Of course,
there are sharper 50mm lenses, but the 2.0 is useful.  I prefer the M to
the A for the build quality.  Earlier K-mount 50mm lenses, like the 1.8 and
2.0 are very nice as well.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Scott Loveless 

> The M50/2, while not the best of the Pentax 50s, is certainly a good
> lens.  Common wisdom dictates that it's almost impossible to come
> across a dog of a 50.  I have that lens and an M50/1.7.  The 50/1.7 is
> slightly sharper and it does get mounted on the K100 from time to
> time.  I mostly shoot B&W film and actually prefer the contrast of the
> 50/2 for that application.  Of course, this is a matter of personal
> taste.  I've never mounted the 50/2 on a digital body so I really
> can't comment on that.



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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Tim Øsleby" Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?


> 140. Wow, you must have studied a lot ;-)

Just enough to think I know more than I really do.

William Robb 


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RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tim Øsleby]

140. Wow, you must have studied a lot ;-)
(Note to myself: Never pick a fight with Bill, he will out smarten you ;-))

Seriously. Most stimulation of the brain improves your intelligence. If you
stimulates it at university or other places does not matter IMO. 

About pompousness: Going to university can boost your self esteem. Generally
I see that something positive. But, if you are an arrogant prick in the
first place, it could make it worse. 
There may also be many reasons for arrogant behaviour. Low self esteem is
often one of them. 
Please consider these reflections as general shit chat. It is not directed
to any specific list members.


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
William Robb
Sent: 29. desember 2006 16:23
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?


- Original Message - 
From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?


>
> On Dec 28, 2006, at 10:06 PM, David Savage wrote:
>
 That wholly depends on the person. A university degree won't make
 you sexy.
>>>
>>> Of course. What do you think, educated people are stupid?
>>
>> Some are. Education & intelligence don't always go hand in hand.
>
> By continuing this line of stupidity, either you are insinuating that
> I am stupid or that you are uneducated and belligerently proud of it.
>

Umm, I think Dave answered a generality of yours with a generality of his
own.
Or are you implying that if one doesn't have a university degree, one isn't
intelligent?
You don't get to have it both ways.
BTW, my IQ measures out close to 140, but I didn't improve it by going to 
university.

William Robb


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Gonz" 
Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?


Or just living where we do.  I live in a relatively hot climate, so the 
air conditioner runs quite a bit during the summer.  The amount of crap 
that gets burnt just to keep us "cool" is probably much more than I use 
in fossil fuels in other areas of my daily life, like driving.  The same 
with people who live in extreme northern climates, like Norway, Sweden, 
Finland, Siberia, etc.  These folks have the opposite problem, they have 
to heat their homes in the winter. How much fossil fuel is used to do 
that.  Should we all move to more moderate parts of the earth?  :)

We should be using power sources that do not involve burning fossil fuels.
The French have it right at the moment.

William Robb

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Re: Introduction

[David J Brooks]

Quoting "W. Guy Finley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>
> On Dec 29, 2006, at 9:06 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
>
>> Quoting "W. Guy Finley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>
>>> LOL, very true!  However, I remember shooting ten rolls in a weekend
>>> and bringing them down to the camera shop.  I can fondly remember
>>> forking over $200 on several occasions for the 10 rolls to be
>>> developed, another 10 rolls of film and whatever other consumables I
>>> needed.  Maybe I should have just had them develop without prints but
>>> I was young and stupid, what can I say.  All I can say is thank God
>>> for digital, I can shoot to my heart's content and not worry about
>>> putting myself in the poor house.
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> I switched to digital in 2001, and I AM in the poor house now.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> Welcome BTW
>
>
> Well, I'm sure you have much cooler stuff in the poor house with you
> than you would if you were still shooting film!
>
> --Guy

Ya, it does look pretty good, sitting on the dining room table.:-)

Dave
>
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>



Equine Photography in York Region

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Re: long lost

[Bob Sullivan]

Hey Rebekah,

Welcome back.  Saw Grandpa's picture of Bella (and yours too).  She is
beautiful, complete with hair like my oldest had 27 years ago.  The
picture of Peter holding Bella is one you'll treasure.  (We posed a
similar shot years ago.)  They are so interested in their new
siblings.

Now you owe us some shots of Dad and Bella and Grandpa/Grandma with
Bella.  My parents are gone now and my youngest just finished college,
but those pictures are the most precious I have.  Take as many as you
can.  The time goes by in a flash.

Regards,  Bob S.

On 12/29/06, rg2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey you guys!
>
> My name is Rebekah, I used to participate in the list about two years ago.
> If any of you recall me, I was in college at the time, and now I have gotten
> hitched, moved to Charleston, South Carolina, and had a second child.  Here
> is a picture of my son, Peter, and daughter, Bella.
>
> http://www.photolava.com/view/jk2.html
> http://www.photolava.com/view/jkb.html
>
>
> So, I'm hoping to rejoin the discussions, or at least read all the stuff
> zipping back and forth between you guys.  It's nice to see some familiar
> posters, and of course, a few of the same topics going on.  I am, just to
> verify, Robert Gonzalez's daughter, and yes, it is very much his fault that
> I am a overzealously dedicated Pentax devotee.  Hope you guys have a great
> New Years Eve, and by the way, does anyone know the PUG theme for February?
>
>
> rg2
>
>
>  "Hi, you have reached the Borg collective. Please leave your name and star
> system and we'll assimilate you as soon as we can."
>
>
> --
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> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>

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Re: long lost

[Gonz]

Welcome back Becky!

rg


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hey you guys!
> 
> My name is Rebekah, I used to participate in the list about two years ago. 
> If any of you recall me, I was in college at the time, and now I have gotten 
> hitched, moved to Charleston, South Carolina, and had a second child.  Here 
> is a picture of my son, Peter, and daughter, Bella.
> 
> http://www.photolava.com/view/jk2.html
> http://www.photolava.com/view/jkb.html
> 
> 
> So, I'm hoping to rejoin the discussions, or at least read all the stuff 
> zipping back and forth between you guys.  It's nice to see some familiar 
> posters, and of course, a few of the same topics going on.  I am, just to 
> verify, Robert Gonzalez's daughter, and yes, it is very much his fault that 
> I am a overzealously dedicated Pentax devotee.  Hope you guys have a great 
> New Years Eve, and by the way, does anyone know the PUG theme for February?
> 
> 
> rg2
> 
> 
>  "Hi, you have reached the Borg collective. Please leave your name and star 
> system and we'll assimilate you as soon as we can." 
> 
> 

-- 
Someone handed me a picture and said, "This is a picture of me when I 
was younger." Every picture of you is when you were younger. "...Here's 
a picture of me when I'm older." Where'd you get that camera man?
- Mitch Hedberg

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Adam Maas]

Actually I was thinking of Bjoern Lomborg, although he isn't a founding 
member (I had him conflated with Moore there).

-Adam


John Sessoms wrote:
>> From:
>> Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> John Sessoms wrote:
 From:
 Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 In this case, I am a bit suspicious. The climatologists have way too
 much incentive to find that 'The Sky Is Falling!' If it is, they are
 terribly important people and we must pay absolute attention to
 everything they say. If it isn't, then their work is just another
 'ho-hum' fact in the ebb and flow of our planet.
>>> The problem I have is it looks to me like the most vocal critics of 
>>> global warming are themselves politically and financially motivated 
>>> by who is paying for their research. I don't know of any scientist 
>>> global warming critic who doesn't have some kind of ties to major 
>>> industries who stand to have to spend some money if action is taken 
>>> to reduce our effect on the environment.
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, all of the independents either see global 
>>> warming as a problem or a potential problem. It's not a question of 
>>> whether we're damaging our environment, but how soon that damage will 
>>> become so severe it will affect our chances of survival. And what 
>>> sacrifice is required, and who will make that sacrifice to prevent 
>>> that day from coming. Finally whether it is already too late or not.
>>>
>> Actually, there's at least one. One of the founders of Greenpeace 
>> publicly split with Greenpeace a few years ago over the issue of 
>> Global Warming along with Greenpeace's increasing Luddite tendencies.
>>
>> -Adam 
> Well, Actually, no there's not.
> 
> Patrick Moore left Greenpeace 20 years ago, not just "a few years".
> 
> And his so-called "Clean and Safe Energy Coalition" turns out to be 
> financed by the Nuclear Energy Institute, a trade association for the 
> nuclear power industry. The "Clean and Safe Energy Coalition" is 
> astro-turf, not grass roots, financed entirely by the nuclear power 
> industry.
> 
> Nor are CASEnergy Coalition critics of global warming theories. They 
> exploit those theories to argue for more reliance on; less government 
> supervision of; and greater government subsidies to the nuclear power 
> industry.
> 
> Former New Jersey Gov. Christine Todd Whitman, GWB's first director of 
> the EPA, is one of the group's leaders. As head of the EPA, she 
> challenged the validity of a government-commissioned report suggesting a 
> human contribution to global warming.
> 
> Whitman appeared twice in New York City after the September 11 attacks 
> to inform New Yorkers that the toxins released by the attacks posed no 
> threat to their health. And the EPA released a report in which Whitman 
> said, "Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to 
> reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C. that their air is 
> safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."
> 
> Yet, a 2003 report by the EPA's inspector general determined that such 
> assurances were misleading. The EPA "did not have sufficient data and 
> analyses" to justify them when the report was issued. Further, the 
> report found that the White House had used the National security council 
> to control EPA communications and "convinced EPA to add reassuring 
> statements and delete cautionary ones" after the September 11 attacks.
> 
> Whitman is now a lobbyist with Whitman Strategy Group.
> 
> According to their own website, the Nuclear Energy Institute is "the 
> policy organization of the nuclear energy and technologies industry and 
> participates in both the national and global policy-making process. 
> NEI's objective is to ensure the formation of policies that promote the 
> beneficial uses of nuclear energies and technologies in the United 
> States and around the world."
> 
> NEI was founded in 1994, by merging the Nuclear Utility Management and 
> Resources Council, the U.S. Council for Energy Awareness, the American 
> Nuclear Energy Council, and the nuclear division of the Edison Electric 
> Institute. NUMARC and USCEA were created by the Atomic Industrial Forum, 
> which "was created by the nuclear power industry in 1953 to focus on the 
> beneficial uses of nuclear energy," and created the "Atoms for Peace" PR 
> campaign.
> 
> A partial list of NEI subsidary CASEnergy Coalition's *"members"* includes:
> 
> *ABB* - "global leader in power and automation technologies that enable 
> utility and industry customers ..." "In addition to ABB's automation 
> activities directed at the oil and gas industries, ABB Lummus Global 
> continues to design and supply production facilities, refineries and 
> petrochemical plants."
> 
> *American Nuclear Insurers* - "Our origin was the Price-Anderson Act, an 
> amendment to the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. This Act encouraged the 
> commercial development of nuclear energy and established a framework for 
> handling p

Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Christian]

Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
> I just completed a round the USA trip in the Toyota Prius.
> 
> Actual fuel consumption averaged over the trip: 44.5 MPG (US Gallons  
> of course).
> Total miles: 7,300
> Average speeds: 70-85 mph on the highways, normal 20-40 mph in city  
> traffic.

My 2000 Civic EX gets an average of 35 MPG mixed driving (see gridlocked 
Washington, DC traffic, punctuated with brief bursts of 80mph).  Pure 
highway at an average of 70mph will see 40 MPG without an issue.

-- 

Christian
http://photography.skofteland.net

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RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tom C]

I'm just picking on you Tim.  Glad you're not offended.


Tom C.





From: Tim Øsleby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
To: "'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'" 
Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 04:10:32 +0100

To put it simple (I like it simple). Smoking is plain stupidity.
There many reasons why it is stupid. My personal life span is one example.
You have listed several others.

It is also an environmental problem. But not because of global heating. The
impact on global heating is similar to the impact of a mouse fart. The
environmental problem is in pesticides used when growing the tobacco. The
other problem is all the chemicals used in making the end product. But 
those

chemicals have no known impact on global heating.

As I said. Bash on. I don't feel uncomfortable with it at all. But please 
do

it in a thread unrelated to the global heating issue.
Title the thread Tim is a liar and thief if you want to ;-)


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom
C
Sent: 29. desember 2006 02:22
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

>Aren't we going OT now?
>
>I have an urge to say that I don't feel that my smoking habits are the 
real

>issue. To me, this seems like a smokescreen (pun intended) cowering the
>real
>debate.
>
>But by all means, bash on if you feel uncomfortable debating.
>
>
>Tim

How can you go OT on an OT? :-)

Actually I think Bill's point is relevant. Why? Because we tend to view our
own behavior as acceptable and normal and expect others to do the changing.

However when the finger points back at us, we're uncomfortable.

While little old you smoking X cigarettes a day may have a negligible 
effect


on pollution on a global scale (just like other single persons taking long
showers or driving gas-guzzling SUV's), it has a much larger effect when we
shrink the picture down a little or when we look at the cumulative effect.

Your behavior is clearly dichotomous...  Wanting to save the planet while 
at


the same time almost assuredly shortening the time span of your existence 
on


it, both lessening your time to enjoy it and the time you might have to 
make


a difference.

The cost in health care and missed productivity due to smoking related
ailments is huge. Next calculate how much time and energy (human and fossil
fuel) is wasted annually in an industry that essentially provides a 
delivery


method for a drug that induces a slow suicide. Then there's the smoking
mothers whose babies may have future health issues and possible lower IQ's,
putting a bigger drain on health care and education systems.

I'm not bashing you.  I'm not criticizing you. You work in the social
welfare field though and are sure aware of the implications of one's
personal behavior. OK, I just had to get that little one in. :-)



Tom C.






> > On 12/28/06, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Tim Øsleby" Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?
> >>
> >>
> >>> Agreed. That's why I smoke outside rain or cold. You could argue
> >>> that I
> >>> pollute the environment. That's true, but I don't think it is
> >>> significant.
> >>
> >> Tim, this is pretty much the argument that you have been on the
> >> other side
> >> of.
> >> No one person makes a significant impact, so why should any one
> >> person
> >> change their habits, be it driving a large vehicle, taking long
> >> hot showers
> >> or whatever else they do that is environmentally harmful?
> >>
> >> William Robb
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >> PDML@pdml.net
> >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >>
> >
> > --
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>DagT
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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REV: *istD AF

[Jens Bladt]

Congrats, Frits (lucky bastard!).
Have funt! Post some shots, please.
Regards
Jens

Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
Frits Wüthrich
Sendt: 29. december 2006 11:28
Til: pdml@pdml.net
Emne: Re: *istD AF


And less then two hours after writing that, the mailman stopped and
delivered
a package. I have not much time now left for PDML as you understand.

On Thursday 28 December 2006 13:03, Jens Bladt wrote:
> Frits wrote:
> I wish the mail man would stop by and hand me my K10D.
>
> I'm sure he will - if you order one :-)
>
> I will be ordering mine some time in April - from Germany - TeKaDe or
> whatever - hoping it's still available at that time.
> I am planning to skip the 6th holliday week, which will then pay for most
> of my K10D. This way it's almost free :-)
>
> Regards
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> Frits Wüthrich
> Sendt: 28. december 2006 12:03
> Til: pdml@pdml.net
> Emne: Re: *istD AF
>
>
> Nice shots. You have a very big DOF, which also helps. I am shooting
sports
> with the programline for highest shutterspeed, so lowest DOF. With a lens
> like mine at 150mm that is still f6.7, I am curious what the new f4
> 60-250mm lens will give for results in actual use.
>
> You have made me curious to find out how the *istD and K10D behave also in
> continous drive mode, which gives the AF system not much time to maintain
> focus. Perhaps pick a bicycle rider and make the 5 consecutive shots you
> asked for, and do this for both cameras. And also compare this with single
> drive mode results.
>
> I wish the mail man would stop by and hand me my K10D.
>
> Frits Wüthrich
>
> On Thursday 28 December 2006 09:47, Jens Bladt wrote:
> > For these shots I used Auto Selection of focus points.
> > Because the boys were a bit away from me, it worked surprisingly well
> > (the distance beteen me and the boys didn't change much):
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72157594200497565/show/
> > The four soccer-shots were taken within 2-3 seconds (according to the
the
> > EXIF-data) between 19:35:10 and 19:35:12, July 15th 2006).
> > Regards
> >
> > Jens Bladt
> > http://www.jensbladt.dk
> > +45 56 63 77 11
> > +45 23 43 85 77
> > Skype: jensbladt248
> >
> > -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> > Jens Bladt
> > Sendt: 28. december 2006 09:25
> > Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > Emne: RE: *istD AF
> >
> >
> > Yes, so it seems. Only in the PDF-manaul this is page 72.
> > So, what does it do, when the subject is fixed and YOU move the CAMERA?
> >
> > It may work fine in theory. But in the real world, the images rarely
turn
> > out sharp, if the subject is moving. I can say this because I used this
> > camera close to every day for 28 months, releasing the shutter appr.
> > 45000 times.
> > Perhaps the micro chip can cope (which I doubt), but the speed of the
>
> whole
>
> > system is still slow compared to the mayor players in the high end DSLR
> > segment.
> >
> > To me this is not very important, since I don't do sports photography
> > (perhaps the camera limitations are the real reason for this). When I
>
> shoot
>
> > images like these I use manual focus, because I can't release the
shutter
> > at the decisive moment if I use AF:
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72057594101295335/show/
> >
> > For pro photographers this is obviously a major issue, since they tend
to
> > choose faster cameras.
> > I plan to buy a K10D anyway, regardsless that it is using the same old
> > (2003) SAFOX VIII system.
> > Obviously the speed is is not a huge priority for Pentax. Luckily it's
> > the same for me.
> >
> > Regards
> > Jens Bladt
> > http://www.jensbladt.dk
> > +45 56 63 77 11
> > +45 23 43 85 77
> > Skype: jensbladt248
> >
> > -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> > Frits Wüthrich
> > Sendt: 27. december 2006 23:14
> > Til: pdml@pdml.net
> > Emne: Re: *istD AF
> >
> >
> > Taken from the *istD manual page 74:
> > "
> > The camera switches to predictive AF mode automatically when a moving
> > subject
> > is detected in AF.C (Continous mode).
> > "
> >
> > Frits Wüthrich
>
> --
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>
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>
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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tom C]

Yes and the chemical changes that occur while inside the smoker's lungs 
causes the smoke that's exhaled to contain more toxins than that which is 
inhaled.




Tom C.





From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 23:29:16 -0600


- Original Message -
From: "Tim Øsleby" Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?


I could do a simple study on my own. Concentrate on Norway. There are
studies on the amount of CO2 from our car park. We also have pretty good
statistics on the smoking habits here. The only hard part is find the 
amount

of CO2 released when smoking. The rest is basic math.

This may sound like a silly waste of time, but silly is my middle name.

It wouldn't be science, but it could tell us something.

According to one of my wife's cigarette packs:
per unit:
Co: 12-30 mg
Formaldehyde: 0.045-0.13 mg
Hydrogen Cyanide (Cyanide fer the love of Pete!!): 0.096-0.27 mg
Benzene: 0.042-0.093 mg.

This is what they say comes out of the cigarette, not the smoker...

William Robb


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Bob Sullivan]

I find this discussion silly because it is winding all over the place
and cannot be resolved.  None of us want global warming or are in
favor of it.  The scientific facts are still under review and
development.  None of us can do very much at this moment to stop it.
And nobody has built the national political resolve to take a 1/2 of
1% hit on Gross National Product to even start addressing the issue.

So here we sit, argueing 'the sky is falling' or is not.  Saying it is
your fault or is not.  And DOING not a single constructive thing to
help the situation.

Make a constructive suggestion and move on.  No more finger pointing.

Regards, Bob S.

On 12/29/06, Jostein Øksne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry about your mother, Bob S.
>
> With all respect, what do you find silly about the discussion?
>
> Jostein
>
> On 12/29/06, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This discussion is so silly.
> > My mother died from 2nd hand smoke.
> > She was never a smoker.
> > My father quit in his early thirties.
> > She spent the last years of her life with a big oxygen bottle at her side 
> > 24x7.
> > Bob S.
> >
> > On 12/29/06, Jostein Øksne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On 12/29/06, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > I was wondering when this thread might turn to the tobacco habits of
> > > > so many of our European friends. There are those among them who are
> > > > quick to criticize the vehicle habits of Americans but staunchly
> > > > defend their right to burn tobacco leaves all day long. A strange
> > > > dichotomy.
> > > > Paul
> > >
> > > Paul,
> > > Nobody in Europe are "staunchly defending their right to burn tobacco
> > > leaves all day long" any more than the Californian bar guests that
> > > Scott describes elsewhere in this thread.
> > >
> > > According to numbers from WHO, the consumption of cigarettes in 1998
> > > was 606 billions for Western Europe, and 451 billions for USA. Adjust
> > > for population size, and the per capita consume is about the same in
> > > the two regions.
> > > Sources:
> > > http://www.who.int/entity/tobacco/en/atlas8.pdf
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_USA
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union
> > >
> > >
> > > Another aspect is that tobacco is a cash crop. Just like cocaine,
> > > opium, and cannabis it is intended solely for supporting a
> > > nerve-system stimulating habit.. With the latter three, much effort
> > > goes into encouraging farmers to produce other crops instead. That
> > > would be nice for tobacco too.
> > >
> > > And for the record of dichotomies, both USA and European countries are
> > > among the top ten tobacco producers of the world.
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco
> > >
> > > There's virtually no difference in European and American positions on 
> > > tobacco.
> > >
> > > 
> > > Except that Europeans smoke in smaller, less polluting cars.
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > > Jostein
> > >
> > > --
> > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > > PDML@pdml.net
> > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > >
> >
> > --
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> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >
>
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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Kenneth Waller]

> I work in a field.

Yes & I suppose on some days you are out standing in your field.

(Couldn't resist)

Kenneth Waller

- Original Message - 
From: "Cotty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?


> On 29/12/06, David Savage, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>>I work in a field where I come into contact with a lot of "educated"
>>people. While most of them are smart, there a also quite a few who
>>aren't, no matter what the piece of paper hanging on the wall
>>proclaims.
> 
> I work in a field.
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
> 
> 
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
> ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
> 
> 
> 
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Enter K10D - some shots

[Boris Liberman]

Hello there.

I am going to publish my impressions from K10D in my photo blog. So here 
is the first post:

http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2006/12/enter-k10d.html

Be sure to click on smaller picture so that bigger ones would open. 
Bigger ones are as usual 790 pixels on the longer dimension and about 
150 Kb in size.

Be sure to tell me what you think ;-).

Thanks.

Boris




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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tom C]

Well sure that is progress, but it's done somewhat at the expense of comfort 
and performance. While there's nothing wrong with either of those and I'm 
sure the Prius is a great vehicle and possibly the best mass-marketed green 
vehicle, I think far more could be accomplished in the way of reducing 
overall consumption.

Comparing the Prius to the vehicles produced 15 - 30 years ago on the 
comfort/performance scale is skewing things a little.  The 
comfort/perfromance of those older vehicles was acceptable to the purchasers 
and they got close to the same mpg.

On the 1/10 emissions, I agree that's important.

Tom C.


>From: Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 21:40:50 -0800
>
>Yes, it is, but with 1/10 the toxic emissions output and double the
>performance.
>Yes, that's progress.
>
>G
>
>On Dec 28, 2006, at 8:22 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
>
> > Gee, the average mileage is almost as good as I was getting with my
> > purely gasoline powered Toyota Starlet in mixed driving over the year
> > that I owned it.  Ah, progress.
>
>
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Re: long lost

[rg2]

Bob -
 Thanks for your kind compliments :-) and I'd love to see the photos of your 
family that you mentioned.  here is a picture of my mother and Bella

http://www.photolava.com/view/jrc.html

although unfortunately my father has yet to meet her.  I agree, kids do grow 
up fast, although it sounds like a cliche I must admit it really does seem 
like yesterday that I was holding my newborn son, and now he's four.  We are 
certainly taking as many pictures as we can, and being on the film side of 
the fence, I'm sure my bank account will soon reflect this.  Of course, I 
guess that's the price you pay for better pictures than digital :-P   I'm 
glad to see that you're still here, and I hope your holiday season went well 
and was full of great photos.

rg2


- Original Message - 
From: "Bob Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: long lost


> Hey Rebekah,
>
> Welcome back.  Saw Grandpa's picture of Bella (and yours too).  She is
> beautiful, complete with hair like my oldest had 27 years ago.  The
> picture of Peter holding Bella is one you'll treasure.  (We posed a
> similar shot years ago.)  They are so interested in their new
> siblings.
>
> Now you owe us some shots of Dad and Bella and Grandpa/Grandma with
> Bella.  My parents are gone now and my youngest just finished college,
> but those pictures are the most precious I have.  Take as many as you
> can.  The time goes by in a flash.
>
> Regards,  Bob S.
>
> On 12/29/06, rg2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hey you guys!
>>
>> My name is Rebekah, I used to participate in the list about two years 
>> ago.
>> If any of you recall me, I was in college at the time, and now I have 
>> gotten
>> hitched, moved to Charleston, South Carolina, and had a second child. 
>> Here
>> is a picture of my son, Peter, and daughter, Bella.
>>
>> http://www.photolava.com/view/jk2.html
>> http://www.photolava.com/view/jkb.html
>>
>>
>> So, I'm hoping to rejoin the discussions, or at least read all the stuff
>> zipping back and forth between you guys.  It's nice to see some familiar
>> posters, and of course, a few of the same topics going on.  I am, just to
>> verify, Robert Gonzalez's daughter, and yes, it is very much his fault 
>> that
>> I am a overzealously dedicated Pentax devotee.  Hope you guys have a 
>> great
>> New Years Eve, and by the way, does anyone know the PUG theme for 
>> February?
>>
>>
>> rg2
>>
>>
>>  "Hi, you have reached the Borg collective. Please leave your name and 
>> star
>> system and we'll assimilate you as soon as we can."
>>
>>
>> --
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>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tom C]

>I work in a field where I come into contact with a lot of "educated"
>people. While most of them are smart, there a also quite a few who
>aren't, no matter what the piece of paper hanging on the wall
>proclaims.
>
>I also have a lot to do with people who'd be considered "uneducated",
>boilermakers, machinists, plant operators  etc.  they are some of the
>smartest, most practical people I know. Of course some are as thick as
>2 bricks.
>

I agree Dave.  A degree or university education does not make one 
intelligent or prove one is intelligent.  Like you, some of the dumbest 
people I'ver worked with have degrees and spent 4 - 8 years of their lives 
to get them + spent untold tens of thousands of dollars.  When assessing 
their overall intelligence I have to ask... how smart was that?  On the 
other hand some of them are quite smart.  So is it the education that 
decides whether one is intelligent or is it a combination of life's 
experiences combined with the luck of the gene pool?

Like you I do not possess a degree of any kind but have been quite 
successful in my technical career, even more so than many that do have a 
degree.

Education is important of course, but it's what you do with it afterwards 
that counts. Then there's the the fact that someone can be book smart and 
street stupid.  No higher education can instill common sense or those 
intangible values that make a person more than the sum of the parts.

Tom C.



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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Gonz]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Dec 29, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Gonz wrote:
> 
> 
Some of the most pompous, dumbest, and most ill informed people I  
know
have a college education, some of them with advanced degrees.  On  
the
flip side, some of the warmest, smartest people I know do not.
>>>
>>>So go buy a camera or lens designed by your warm, smart people
>>>without an education.
>>
>>You would be surprised at how much "stuff" you use was dreamt up by
>>those very people, so go live without it.
> 
> 
> Your logic is flawed. Being able to dream up interesting things is  
> one thing. Being able to engineer and manufacture them is quite  
> another. 

No, thats exactly what I meant.  You dont need an engineering degree to 
"engineer" or design stuff.  I meant dreamt up in a complete way, 
including getting it to market.  I remember working with some 
programmers in the early 80's that were some of the best programmers in 
the business, and they learnt the domain knowledge they needed on the 
fly, ... by readingthey did not have a formal education.

> 
> Godfrey
> 
> 

-- 
Someone handed me a picture and said, "This is a picture of me when I 
was younger." Every picture of you is when you were younger. "...Here's 
a picture of me when I'm older." Where'd you get that camera man?
- Mitch Hedberg

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[rg2]

Hey, did you guys hear about the car a guy made with laptop batteries?

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.08/tesla.html

rg2

- Original Message - 
From: "Bob Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?


> Godfrey,
> 
> I've met your car in person and think it is pretty neat.
> The only think that I can imagine is exotic about it is the batteries.
> I was just inquiring if you knew how exotic or not they were.
> 
> For the past 30 years, various incarnations of the electric car have
> been discussed.  The issue has always been energy density & power to
> weight ratios for the batteries.  Sometimes very exotic materials were
> used to meet requirements, without much thought of pollution.
> 
> Regards,  Bob S.
> 
> On 12/28/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Dec 28, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
>>
>> > Only difference over a regular car would be some electronics, electric
>> > motor, and batteries.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean by this. Yes, it does use a four cylinder
>> internal combustion engine and a differential, suspension and brakes.
>> As a difference, it has no transmission, no starter motor, two drive/
>> generator motors, and a drive battery pack in addition to the
>> standard 12V gel cell battery that your car uses.
>>
>> > What is the pollution associated with creating
>> > and disposing of the batteries over the life of the car?
>>
>> I couldn't tell you what kind of pollution is associated with the
>> battery manufacture specifically for the cars, although we all know
>> it is a manufacturing process with similar kinds of pollution to the
>> creation of most of your daily household use items like kitchen
>> appliances, stereo, television, etc. It's not like a battery
>> manufacturing process was created out of nothing specifically and
>> only for these automobiles.  They're made through the same
>> manufacturers/plants that make camera batteries, for instance, and
>> batteries for other applications
>>
>> The battery is fully warranted for 8 years and 100,000 miles, and
>> it's designed to be recyclable (as is most of the rest of the car as
>> well). I doubt the vehicle's lifespan is just that, or that the
>> battery will last only that long, but it's a heck of a lot better for
>> the environment that everything was designed for recycling in the
>> first place.
>>
>> Godfrey
>>
>>
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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tom C]

- Original Message -
From: "Tim Øsleby" Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?


> 140. Wow, you must have studied a lot ;-)

Just enough to think I know more than I really do.

William Robb



Your Wisers' Whiskey joke was pretty intelligent, I gotta give you that... 
:-)


Tom C.



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RE: Enter K10D - some shots

[Tom C]

I though it was the Dead Sea scrolls when the page appeared. :-)

Tom C.




>From: Boris Liberman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>Subject: Enter K10D - some shots
>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 18:58:26 +0200
>
>Hello there.
>
>I am going to publish my impressions from K10D in my photo blog. So here
>is the first post:
>
>http://pentax-ways.blogspot.com/2006/12/enter-k10d.html
>
>Be sure to click on smaller picture so that bigger ones would open.
>Bigger ones are as usual 790 pixels on the longer dimension and about
>150 Kb in size.
>
>Be sure to tell me what you think ;-).
>
>Thanks.
>
>Boris
>
>
>
>
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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Christian]

rg2 wrote:
> Hey, did you guys hear about the car a guy made with laptop batteries?
> 
> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.08/tesla.html
> 

Ah yes, the Tesla http://www.teslamotors.com/

Now, if Detroit would just embrace this kind of technology, we could 
have a fully electric car that costs less than US$100k...  Too bad they 
are in so deep with Big Oil

-- 

Christian
http://photography.skofteland.net

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 29, 2006, at 8:42 AM, Christian wrote:

> My 2000 Civic EX gets an average of 35 MPG mixed driving (see  
> gridlocked
> Washington, DC traffic, punctuated with brief bursts of 80mph).  Pure
> highway at an average of 70mph will see 40 MPG without an issue.

Certainly, Christian. That is not the point.

Disregarding the fact that 43.5 overall MPG is by itself a near 25%  
improvement over what your Civic EX achieves, the Prius and other  
hybrid-electric cars achieve (better) fuel economy while lowering  
toxic emissions output substantially, and particular in the  
situations where those emissions are the most harmful to public  
health (stop and go, in-city driving).

That is the point. You get better economy and less pollutants  
released into the air, with a side effect of lower service costs (the  
ICE and brakes are less stressed and thereby require less service,  
last longer). This is paid for with a premium on purchase price,  
which is amortized by running expense reductions over time presuming  
you keep the car long enough.

Godfrey

BTW:
I have always kept detailed records on all my vehicles' fuel and  
maintenance costs. I've owned the Prius for ~12,150 miles of driving  
now. That's 276 US gallons of fuel (43.84 mpg overall). By  
comparison, my Toyota MR2 consumed 426 US gallons of fuel in the same  
distance by my accounting (28.5 mpg overall) and my Land Rover  
Freelander consumed 658 US gallons (18.5 overall mpg). I consider  
that a substantial savings at today's prices of $2.70 per gallon, and  
a benefit to the environment as well.

For the mileages stated above about your Civic, are you speaking from  
such accounting records or from a recalled estimated mileage average?  
I have no doubt that it is quite economical on fuel, but sometimes  
our memory tricks us. My buddy down in Texas has a similar car and  
asserted that he was getting "over 40 mpg most of the time due to all  
the highway driving" so I asked him to keep a precise log for six  
months out of curiousity. His actual mileage was 34.5 overall mpg,  
41.2 mpg highway, for a 7,000 mile period where he was keeping  
detailed records and separating out the constant highway use.)


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tom C]

I thought this was already solved in a parallel universe or something.  All 
we need to do is get in touch with our counterparts and ask them how they 
did it.


LOL.

The sky is falling most definitely. My particular beliefs lead me to believe 
1) that we should individually be environmentally responsible and 2) that 
the real solution in the bigger picture is out of our hands.


Tom C.





From: "Bob Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 11:03:07 -0600

I find this discussion silly because it is winding all over the place
and cannot be resolved.  None of us want global warming or are in
favor of it.  The scientific facts are still under review and
development.  None of us can do very much at this moment to stop it.
And nobody has built the national political resolve to take a 1/2 of
1% hit on Gross National Product to even start addressing the issue.

So here we sit, argueing 'the sky is falling' or is not.  Saying it is
your fault or is not.  And DOING not a single constructive thing to
help the situation.

Make a constructive suggestion and move on.  No more finger pointing.

Regards, Bob S.

On 12/29/06, Jostein Øksne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry about your mother, Bob S.
>
> With all respect, what do you find silly about the discussion?
>
> Jostein
>
> On 12/29/06, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This discussion is so silly.
> > My mother died from 2nd hand smoke.
> > She was never a smoker.
> > My father quit in his early thirties.
> > She spent the last years of her life with a big oxygen bottle at her 
side 24x7.

> > Bob S.
> >
> > On 12/29/06, Jostein Øksne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On 12/29/06, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > I was wondering when this thread might turn to the tobacco habits 
of
> > > > so many of our European friends. There are those among them who 
are

> > > > quick to criticize the vehicle habits of Americans but staunchly
> > > > defend their right to burn tobacco leaves all day long. A strange
> > > > dichotomy.
> > > > Paul
> > >
> > > Paul,
> > > Nobody in Europe are "staunchly defending their right to burn 
tobacco

> > > leaves all day long" any more than the Californian bar guests that
> > > Scott describes elsewhere in this thread.
> > >
> > > According to numbers from WHO, the consumption of cigarettes in 1998
> > > was 606 billions for Western Europe, and 451 billions for USA. 
Adjust

> > > for population size, and the per capita consume is about the same in
> > > the two regions.
> > > Sources:
> > > http://www.who.int/entity/tobacco/en/atlas8.pdf
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_USA
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union
> > >
> > >
> > > Another aspect is that tobacco is a cash crop. Just like cocaine,
> > > opium, and cannabis it is intended solely for supporting a
> > > nerve-system stimulating habit.. With the latter three, much effort
> > > goes into encouraging farmers to produce other crops instead. That
> > > would be nice for tobacco too.
> > >
> > > And for the record of dichotomies, both USA and European countries 
are

> > > among the top ten tobacco producers of the world.
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco
> > >
> > > There's virtually no difference in European and American positions 
on tobacco.

> > >
> > > 
> > > Except that Europeans smoke in smaller, less polluting cars.
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > > Jostein
> > >
> > > --
> > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > > PDML@pdml.net
> > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > >
> >
> > --
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> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >
>
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Re: Enter K10D - some shots

[Boris Liberman]

> I though it was the Dead Sea scrolls when the page appeared. :-)

Which indicates that most probably you never visited the Israel Museum 
in Jerusalem where Shrine of the Book is.

;-)

Boris

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tom C]

Yeah a tzero derivative.  If they could get this down to what an average 
person could afford.

Rob Studdert sent me a link on magnetic/electric/flywheel technology which 
was extremely interesting.  Essentially the mechanical energy of high speed 
flywheels is used to power the vehicle.  The only consumed pollutants are 
those used to spinup the flywheels, with zero tailpipe emissions.

Tom C.



>From: "rg2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
>Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 12:32:51 -0500
>
>Hey, did you guys hear about the car a guy made with laptop batteries?
>
>http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.08/tesla.html
>
>rg2
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Bob Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:35 AM
>Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>
>
> > Godfrey,
> >
> > I've met your car in person and think it is pretty neat.
> > The only think that I can imagine is exotic about it is the batteries.
> > I was just inquiring if you knew how exotic or not they were.
> >
> > For the past 30 years, various incarnations of the electric car have
> > been discussed.  The issue has always been energy density & power to
> > weight ratios for the batteries.  Sometimes very exotic materials were
> > used to meet requirements, without much thought of pollution.
> >
> > Regards,  Bob S.
> >
> > On 12/28/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> On Dec 28, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
> >>
> >> > Only difference over a regular car would be some electronics, 
>electric
> >> > motor, and batteries.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure what you mean by this. Yes, it does use a four cylinder
> >> internal combustion engine and a differential, suspension and brakes.
> >> As a difference, it has no transmission, no starter motor, two drive/
> >> generator motors, and a drive battery pack in addition to the
> >> standard 12V gel cell battery that your car uses.
> >>
> >> > What is the pollution associated with creating
> >> > and disposing of the batteries over the life of the car?
> >>
> >> I couldn't tell you what kind of pollution is associated with the
> >> battery manufacture specifically for the cars, although we all know
> >> it is a manufacturing process with similar kinds of pollution to the
> >> creation of most of your daily household use items like kitchen
> >> appliances, stereo, television, etc. It's not like a battery
> >> manufacturing process was created out of nothing specifically and
> >> only for these automobiles.  They're made through the same
> >> manufacturers/plants that make camera batteries, for instance, and
> >> batteries for other applications
> >>
> >> The battery is fully warranted for 8 years and 100,000 miles, and
> >> it's designed to be recyclable (as is most of the rest of the car as
> >> well). I doubt the vehicle's lifespan is just that, or that the
> >> battery will last only that long, but it's a heck of a lot better for
> >> the environment that everything was designed for recycling in the
> >> first place.
> >>
> >> Godfrey
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >> PDML@pdml.net
> >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >>
> >
> > --
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>
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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 29, 2006, at 9:14 AM, Tom C wrote:

> Well sure that is progress, but it's done somewhat at the expense  
> of comfort
> and performance. While there's nothing wrong with either of those

To my senses, the Prius comfort (measured in ride quality, interior  
noise, and support by the seat as it affects my back) is barely less  
than the posh BMW 500 series turbo-diesel sedan that I drove on the  
Isle of Man this past Fall, and it's roomier for my legs, holds more  
cargo as well That same BMW outperforms it on acceleration from a  
standing start easily, but in passing power from 60-80 mph seemed  
about the same to me. The BMW would achieve 37 mpg UK of diesel fuel  
when run at a constant speed in its best economy range, which is far  
less than I what I get overall with the Prius.

> ... I think far more could be accomplished in the way of reducing
> overall consumption.

While I'm hopeful that this is true, there are some limits based upon  
physics and what you are willing to accept in the way of performance  
and comfort. To accelerate and sustain velocity for the mass of a  
vehicle will always take some amount of energy. Aerodynamic  
coefficients lower than 2.2 or so are very difficult to achieve  
without huge compromises, friction losses from bearings and tires are  
the same thing, so I don't know that getting double the fuel economy  
without large compromises to performance, safety, vehicle load  
capacity, and practical comfort is actually a reasonable expectation.

> Comparing the Prius to the vehicles produced 15 - 30 years ago on the
> comfort/performance scale is skewing things a little.  The
> comfort/perfromance of those older vehicles was acceptable to the  
> purchasers
> and they got close to the same mpg.

I don't see how what I was willing to accept/afford for the 1981  
Toyota Tercel has any bearing on an objective ranking in these  
matters. Compared to that car, the Prius is a far more comfortable,  
quieter, roomier car with much more performance.

> On the 1/10 emissions, I agree that's important.

At least we can agree on something here... ;-)

G


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 29, 2006, at 9:34 AM, Gonz wrote:

>> Your logic is flawed. Being able to dream up interesting things is
>> one thing. Being able to engineer and manufacture them is quite
>> another.
>
> No, thats exactly what I meant.  You don't need an engineering  
> degree to
> "engineer" or design stuff.  I meant dreamt up in a complete way,
> including getting it to market.  I remember working with some
> programmers in the early 80's that were some of the best  
> programmers in
> the business, and they learnt the domain knowledge they needed on the
> fly, ... by readingthey did not have a formal education.

No one, certainly not me, ever said that having a "formal education"  
was essential to intelligence or knowledge. Those people were self- 
educated in their field of expertise. It become more difficult to do  
this as the knowledge required to understand the scope of a subject's  
complexity increases.

I am one of those self-taught software engineers of the 1980s myself.  
My formal education had nothing to do with programming computers. I  
made a 20+ year successful career out of self-taught skills in  
programming and systems design.

However, my education did teach me how to detect horsepucky when I  
heard it. Someone who boasts of their lack of education is stupid in  
my book, and to suggest that they have credible opinions about a  
complex subject when they demonstrate that they know little to  
nothing about research is horsepucky.

G

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Noteworthy News About DA 21

[Joseph Tainter]

Apparently it has been judged best of the 20s:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=21452520

Does anyone in the UK actually have the magazine?

Joe

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

No, this is a common misconception. I knew nothing about it when I  
first started looking into the Prius, but I've since found several  
articles on how it works.

The Hybrid Synergy Drive system has a planetary gearbox coupling the  
ICE and two electric drive motor/generators. There is no clutch or  
liquid coupling, all three are always directly engaged and gearing is  
never changed. What is changed is the relative directions and force  
applied by all three power units to the coupling, which simulates a  
constantly variable transmission by the control system's integrating  
the torque outputs through the coupling dynamically. One could more  
correctly describe the drive system as providing constantly optimized  
torque based on demand rather than as a continuously variable  
transmission.

Here are a couple of discussions, in no particular order, for your  
enjoyment:





a picture of the power unit:


an interactive simulation:


Fun stuff, a fascinating study. The simulation is fun to play with.

Godfrey

On Dec 29, 2006, at 3:54 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

> It has a continuously variable transmission.
>>
>>> Only difference over a regular car would be some electronics,  
>>> electric
>>> motor, and batteries.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean by this. Yes, it does use a four cylinder
>> internal combustion engine and a differential, suspension and brakes.
>> As a difference, it has no transmission, no starter motor, two drive/
>> generator motors, and a drive battery pack in addition to the
>> standard 12V gel cell battery that your car uses.



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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tom C]

>
>I don't see how what I was willing to accept/afford for the 1981
>Toyota Tercel has any bearing on an objective ranking in these
>matters. Compared to that car, the Prius is a far more comfortable,
>quieter, roomier car with much more performance.
>
> > On the 1/10 emissions, I agree that's important.
>
>At least we can agree on something here... ;-)
>
>G
>

I understand what you're saying and don't disagree actually.  I'm just 
saying that in the end, I'm not *sure* the overall fuel economy, measured in 
mpg, has increased that much over 15/20/30 years ago.

I have no doubt the car is nicer and performs better.

It just seems to me like more could be done.  I don't want to get into 
politics, I have seen the movie about the EV1 yet, and I realize it's in a 
different class of car than the Prius, but I'll use it as an example to 
support the point I'm feebly attempting to make. :-)

>From what I can understand there was no good compelling reason to not go 
into widescale production of an EV1-type vehicle that was a very green 
city/short trip automobile, *IF* the focus was on producing a practical 
commuter vehicle that drastically reduced oil consumption and was 
affordable.

That type of vehicle would satisfy (guesstimate) at least 50% of the driving 
done on a daily basis in the USA. The fact that it can be done, but is not 
being done, is purely a matter of profit and mindset.

Tom C.



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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Jostein Øksne]

On 12/29/06, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I find this discussion silly because it is winding all over the place
> and cannot be resolved.  None of us want global warming or are in
> favor of it.  The scientific facts are still under review and
> development.  None of us can do very much at this moment to stop it.
> And nobody has built the national political resolve to take a 1/2 of
> 1% hit on Gross National Product to even start addressing the issue.
>
> So here we sit, argueing 'the sky is falling' or is not.  Saying it is
> your fault or is not.  And DOING not a single constructive thing to
> help the situation.

A couple of very simple suggestions:
If you live in a place that needs heating parts of the year, install a
heat pump and reconsider the house insulation. Reduce heating at the
times of day when nobody's home anyway.
Next time you buy a car, go for the smaller engine.
Figure out ways to use less hot water.
Depending on the infrastructure around you, consider walking to the
store when doing your everyday shopping. The exercise is an added
bonus.

> Make a constructive suggestion and move on.  No more finger pointing.

Paul Stenquist pointed his finger at the smoking habits of Europeans,
and all I did was to demonstrate that North American and European
smoking habits are identical. I wasn't pointing any fingers at anyone,
with exception of my little tongue-in-cheek nudge about car size
towards the end.

But most of my suggestions has been mentioned in the discussion
already. I have also seen responses to those suggestions, some of
which lead to a diversion over individual "freedom", others lamenting
how insignificant we are as single persons anyway and arguing that the
individual initiative wouldn't matter in the big picture. But there
you go. There are _plenty_ of good suggestions. The problem is that
people doesn't _want_ to move on. They'd rather stick to what they
know than risking a change in their habits.

A science philosopher (don't recall his name, sorry) maintained that
scientific paradigma shifts occurred when proponents of old theories
died out. It may well be that getting the Wester world's population to
think differently about resource use and energy expenditure will have
to take a generation too.

Maybe that's the silliest part. But anyway, any small actions we're
able to undertake may spur the next generation to do better, at least.
Even discussions like this one will at least heigthen the level of
conciousness.

Jostein

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Re: Introduction

[Adam Maas]

Scott Loveless wrote:
> On 12/29/06, W. Guy Finley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>>Hello all!  Found this list after intensely studying Stan's Pentax
>>page trying to figure out what in the world I was doing with lenses
>>for my new baby.
>>
>>I learned on my dad's K1000 (more later) and after a hiatus until
>>early adulthood I got back into photography but went Canon with an
>>EOS-3 and a Tokina 28-80/2.8 as my mainstay lens and a couple of
>>primes.  I went broke feeding film into that camera so when digital
>>started hitting it big I grabbed a Canon G3 and ditched my EOS
>>system.  I then had a Sigma SD-9 and then a Sony DMC-V1 that I went
>>to the extent of getting a Metz 50 MZ-5 system for.
>>
>>The Sony has long since been wanting to be retired so I started
>>looking at another bridge camera.  That's when I saw reviews for the
>>new Pentax K digitals.  I had thought about an ist-D a bit back but
>>never made the leap.  I went and found the trusty K1000 and sure
>>enough the M 50/2 and Takumar 135/2.8 were still with it.  Not the
>>best lenses in the world but hey, a start.  When I saw these would
>>work with the new digitals I  made the leap and went for K110D
>>deciding I really didn't need shake reduction.
> 
> 
> The M50/2, while not the best of the Pentax 50s, is certainly a good
> lens.  Common wisdom dictates that it's almost impossible to come
> across a dog of a 50.  I have that lens and an M50/1.7.  The 50/1.7 is
> slightly sharper and it does get mounted on the K100 from time to
> time.  I mostly shoot B&W film and actually prefer the contrast of the
> 50/2 for that application.  Of course, this is a matter of personal
> taste.  I've never mounted the 50/2 on a digital body so I really
> can't comment on that.
> 

The M50/2 works really nicely on my K100D. I'm now using it only as a reversed 
macro as I ran across an A 50/2 and a A 50/1.7 over the last two weeks. The f2 
is probably the better portrait lens of the two, the 1.7 is a little too sharp 
to be really flattering.

-Adam



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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Cotty]

On 29/12/06, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Should we all move to more moderate parts of the earth?  :)


He means England.

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Cotty]

On 29/12/06, Kenneth Waller, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Yes & I suppose on some days you are out standing in your field.

I aim to be. Cocky repartee aimed at newbies and tagalongs: 'Every frame
a Rembrandt (unless I drank too much last night, in which case think
Picasso)'


>
>(Couldn't resist)

Ditto.

Happy Yew Near ;-)

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 29, 2006, at 9:53 AM, Tom C wrote:

> The sky is falling most definitely. My particular beliefs lead me  
> to believe 1) that we should individually be environmentally  
> responsible and 2) that the real solution in the bigger picture is  
> out of our hands.

My gosh, more agreement! On two out of three points too!

- Yes the sky is definitely falling.
- Yes we should individually be environmentally responsible.

That "the real solution in the bigger picture is out of our hands" is  
a bit too ambiguous and vague to either fully agree with or  
completely disagree with. Much of the solution to 'the bigger  
picture' from one perspective is in the agreement on point number  
two: if we are individually as environmentally responsible and  
thoughtful as we can be about the use of energy, we might be able to  
influence the climate of the planet in a positive manner and  
ameliorate some of the nastier consequences of climate change.

By no means can we save ourselves if a good sized hunk of rock were  
to smack into us, like that comet that smacked into Jupiter a few  
years back, and similarly I am pretty certain that we cannot stop  
climate change entirely, nor am I sure that it would be wise to do so  
in 'the greater scheme of things' ...

But we can always benefit from not acting stupidly with regards to  
resources. We should strive to do so, all of us together planetwide.

Godfrey

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tom C]

>Maybe that's the silliest part. But anyway, any small actions we're
>able to undertake may spur the next generation to do better, at least.
>Even discussions like this one will at least heigthen the level of
>conciousness.
>
>Jostein
>

There you go.  There's nothing wrong with talking about it.  And it's safe 
here since we're mainly a bunch of novices having a grass-roots type of 
discussion.  We'd get slaughtered on an ecology/global warming mailing list 
I'm sure.

Personally, I think those selfish luddite troglodyte non-digital film users 
are robbing our planet of it's precious silver resources, not to mention 
gelatin reserves.  :-)

Tom C.



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Re: long lost

[Cotty]

On 29/12/06, rg2, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Hey you guys!
>
>My name is Rebekah, I used to participate in the list about two years ago. 
>If any of you recall me, I was in college at the time, and now I have gotten 
>hitched, moved to Charleston, South Carolina, and had a second child.  Here 
>is a picture of my son, Peter, and daughter, Bella.
>
>http://www.photolava.com/view/jk2.html
>http://www.photolava.com/view/jkb.html


Yo Rebekah, I remember you. Two years! Time moves quicker for us half-
wits ;-) 

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 29, 2006, at 10:42 AM, Tom C wrote:

>> I don't see how what I was willing to accept/afford for the 1981
>> Toyota Tercel has any bearing on an objective ranking in these
>> matters. Compared to that car, the Prius is a far more comfortable,
>> quieter, roomier car with much more performance.
>>
>>> On the 1/10 emissions, I agree that's important.
>>
>> At least we can agree on something here... ;-)
>
> I understand what you're saying and don't disagree actually.  I'm just
> saying that in the end, I'm not *sure* the overall fuel economy,  
> measured in
> mpg, has increased that much over 15/20/30 years ago.

The assumptions about the priority of reducing emissions while still  
providing better fuel economy AND currently acceptable performance  
and comfort levels means that the MPG achieved is not directly  
comparable in and of its own right against those older vehicles.

> It just seems to me like more could be done.  I don't want to get into
> politics, I have seen the movie about the EV1 yet, and I realize  
> it's in a
> different class of car than the Prius, but I'll use it as an  
> example to
> support the point I'm feebly attempting to make. :-)
>
> From what I can understand there was no good compelling reason to  
> not go
> into widescale production of an EV1-type vehicle that was a very green
> city/short trip automobile, *IF* the focus was on producing a  
> practical
> commuter vehicle that drastically reduced oil consumption and was
> affordable.
>
> That type of vehicle would satisfy (guesstimate) at least 50% of  
> the driving
> done on a daily basis in the USA. The fact that it can be done, but  
> is not
> being done, is purely a matter of profit and mindset.

100% agreement there. We're batting well this morning. ;-)

G

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A bit more about K10D, please read.

[Boris Liberman]

Hi!

First of, indeed my K10D has this banding. It appears if you push (make 
brighter) the image all the way up. It is very similar to what I had on 
*istD and I don't think I should bother.

On the other hand I have a question. I shoot DNGs with AWB setting. 
Images come out just right with just one but. The but is that my ACR 
(3.5 I think in PS CS2) shows the color temperatures above 7,500 K even 
for rather cold looking pictures and tint values start at 75 and go 
upwards. Is there anything I can do or I will have to wait until Adobe 
produces new version of ACR that will support K10D (PEFs and DNG specifics)?

Thanks.

Boris

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Gonz]

> 
> Damn straight. There's nothing sexier than a smart, well-educated  
> person.
> 
 > Godfrey


> 
> Of course. What do you think, educated people are stupid? Only  
> stupid, uneducated people think that having a piece of paper  
> automatically makes you think you're something special.
> 
> Godfrey
> 
> 

quod erat demonstrandum

-- 
Someone handed me a picture and said, "This is a picture of me when I 
was younger." Every picture of you is when you were younger. "...Here's 
a picture of me when I'm older." Where'd you get that camera man?
- Mitch Hedberg

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Re: long lost

[Paul Stenquist]

Hi Rebeikah,
Welcome back. I remember you. Your children are darling and well 
captured by you. Good work. Hope to see more of your pics here.
Paul Stenquist
On Dec 29, 2006, at 10:29 AM, rg2 wrote:

> Hey you guys!
>
> My name is Rebekah, I used to participate in the list about two years 
> ago.
> If any of you recall me, I was in college at the time, and now I have 
> gotten
> hitched, moved to Charleston, South Carolina, and had a second child.  
> Here
> is a picture of my son, Peter, and daughter, Bella.
>
> http://www.photolava.com/view/jk2.html
> http://www.photolava.com/view/jkb.html
>
>
> So, I'm hoping to rejoin the discussions, or at least read all the 
> stuff
> zipping back and forth between you guys.  It's nice to see some 
> familiar
> posters, and of course, a few of the same topics going on.  I am, just 
> to
> verify, Robert Gonzalez's daughter, and yes, it is very much his fault 
> that
> I am a overzealously dedicated Pentax devotee.  Hope you guys have a 
> great
> New Years Eve, and by the way, does anyone know the PUG theme for 
> February?
>
>
> rg2
>
>
>  "Hi, you have reached the Borg collective. Please leave your name and 
> star
> system and we'll assimilate you as soon as we can."
>
>
> -- 
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> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>


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Re: A bit more about K10D, please read.

[Gonz]

Download the latest camera RAW plugin from adobe, I had the same problem 
with the K100D.

rg


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> First of, indeed my K10D has this banding. It appears if you push (make 
> brighter) the image all the way up. It is very similar to what I had on 
> *istD and I don't think I should bother.
> 
> On the other hand I have a question. I shoot DNGs with AWB setting. 
> Images come out just right with just one but. The but is that my ACR 
> (3.5 I think in PS CS2) shows the color temperatures above 7,500 K even 
> for rather cold looking pictures and tint values start at 75 and go 
> upwards. Is there anything I can do or I will have to wait until Adobe 
> produces new version of ACR that will support K10D (PEFs and DNG specifics)?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Boris
> 

-- 
Someone handed me a picture and said, "This is a picture of me when I 
was younger." Every picture of you is when you were younger. "...Here's 
a picture of me when I'm older." Where'd you get that camera man?
- Mitch Hedberg

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[John Francis]

On Fri, Dec 29, 2006 at 12:49:23PM -0500, Christian wrote:
> rg2 wrote:
> > Hey, did you guys hear about the car a guy made with laptop batteries?
> > 
> > http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.08/tesla.html

Hear about it?  I've seen it - the design studio is quite local.
Here's a (pretty bad) snapshot of it.  Taken with a Pentax :-)

http://panix.com/~johnf/temp/Tesla.jpg

 
> Ah yes, the Tesla http://www.teslamotors.com/
> 
> Now, if Detroit would just embrace this kind of technology, we could 
> have a fully electric car that costs less than US$100k...  Too bad they 
> are in so deep with Big Oil

Well, Detroit might not be interested, but Lotus are - they seem
to be planning to market the Tesla.


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RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Malcolm Smith]

Tom C wrote:

>We'd get slaughtered on an ecology/global warming mailing list I'm sure.

They wouldn't notice; they're in the middle of a long OT discussion on
Pentax cameras.

Malcolm


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RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Tim Øsleby]

My grandfather had a similar saying: If you knew how little you know, then
you'd know a lot.


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom
C
Sent: 29. desember 2006 18:40
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

>- Original Message -
>From: "Tim Øsleby" Subject: RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?
>
>
> > 140. Wow, you must have studied a lot ;-)
>
>Just enough to think I know more than I really do.
>
>William Robb
>

Your Wisers' Whiskey joke was pretty intelligent, I gotta give you that... 
:-)

Tom C.






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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[keith_w]

Bob Sullivan wrote:
> This discussion is so silly.
> My mother died from 2nd hand smoke.

I'm of the opinion that the doctors call it that when they can't come up 
with some other convenient and plausible cause.

> She was never a smoker.

My mother died of complications of cirrhosis of the liver, and she was 
not a heavy drinker. "Light social" is more like it.
So, the doctors called it "Non-alcoholic cirrhosis."
What they mean is, they don't HAVE a rational cause when a non-smokers 
and a non-drinkers die from what are otherwise "typical" addict's maladies.

> My father quit in his early thirties.
> She spent the last years of her life with a big oxygen bottle at her side 
> 24x7.
> Bob S.

Yup. I understand that. Been there...
Sad, but part of the mystery of medicine, which is appropriately called 
a "practice."

keith whaley



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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Christian]

Malcolm Smith wrote:
> Tom C wrote:
> 
>> We'd get slaughtered on an ecology/global warming mailing list I'm sure.
> 
> They wouldn't notice; they're in the middle of a long OT discussion on
> Pentax cameras.
> 
> Malcolm
> 
> 

Now THAT'S funny!  LOL ROTFLMAO etc etc

-- 

Christian
http://photography.skofteland.net

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Re: A bit more about K10D, please read.

[Bronek Kozicki]

Gonz wrote:
> Download the latest camera RAW plugin from adobe, I had the same problem 
> with the K100D.


it won't change things a yota, because current (latest) Camera Raw 
plugin, version 3.6, does not support K10D (directly) and one has to use 
DNG files. The issue that Boris is seeing is result of Camera Raw not 
having profile of K10D. Explanation why this profile (or actually two) 
is needed can be found here 
http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/21351-1.html


B.

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Dec 29, 2006, at 11:55 AM, John Francis wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 29, 2006 at 12:49:23PM -0500, Christian wrote:
>> rg2 wrote:
>>> Hey, did you guys hear about the car a guy made with laptop  
>>> batteries?
>>>
>>> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.08/tesla.html
>
> Hear about it?  I've seen it - the design studio is quite local.
> Here's a (pretty bad) snapshot of it.  Taken with a Pentax :-)
>
> http://panix.com/~johnf/temp/Tesla.jpg
>
>
>> Ah yes, the Tesla http://www.teslamotors.com/
>>
>> Now, if Detroit would just embrace this kind of technology, we could
>> have a fully electric car that costs less than US$100k...  Too bad  
>> they
>> are in so deep with Big Oil
>
> Well, Detroit might not be interested, but Lotus are - they seem
> to be planning to market the Tesla.

Getting quite close to release too. I've seen two of them, marked as  
prototypes, on the road in the neighborhood here. Very very cool cars.

Godfrey


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

[Christian]

John Francis wrote:

>> Ah yes, the Tesla http://www.teslamotors.com/
>>
>> Now, if Detroit would just embrace this kind of technology, we could 
>> have a fully electric car that costs less than US$100k...  Too bad they 
>> are in so deep with Big Oil
> 
> Well, Detroit might not be interested, but Lotus are - they seem
> to be planning to market the Tesla.
> 
> 

I believe Lotus is actually building the thing.

-- 

Christian
http://photography.skofteland.net

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