RE: PESO: Transection

2009-10-01 Thread Bob W
 
  In a message dated 9/29/2009 8:13:50 P.M.  Pacific Daylight Time, 
  m...@robertstech.com  writes:
  http://www.robertstech.com/pages/fotoblog/7d905643.htm
 
 
  ===
  Very  phallic.
 
  Wow. You need to get out more!
  ;-)
 
 
 Jez Mark. She just got back!
 

She's been in the wilderness for a long time with only bears for company. I
guess she has some catching up to do...

Bob


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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread AlunFoto
At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
target date for the 645D.

Jostein

2009/10/1 Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com:
 As announced minutes ago in the UK pub. Pentax User. It may have already
 appeared here, but I missed it.

 Pentax are hoping to release the Pentax 645D medium format camera in the
 spring.
 PDN reported that Ned Bunnell, the president of Pentax Imaging USA said
 they've started development and the Pentax 645D medium format camera will be
 released by Spring 2010.



 Joseph McAllister
 pentax...@mac.com

 “ It is still true, as was first said many years ago, that people are the
 only sophisticated computing devices that can be made at low cost by
 unskilled workers!”
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Re: K-x color envy is ripe

2009-10-01 Thread AlunFoto
2009/10/1 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com:

 I want a dayglo pink and lime 645D.

Rotfl!

Maaark!

Jostein

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Re: K-x color envy is ripe

2009-10-01 Thread eckinator
That is sooo 80s... meaning it is currently being recycled by
nincompoop fashion victims all over europe (and elsewhere?)
Yeah, like, eeew, like gag me with a spoon...
Just imagine the effect filters to go with that style...

2009/10/1 AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com:
 2009/10/1 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com:

 I want a dayglo pink and lime 645D.

 Rotfl!

 Maaark!

 Jostein

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Photographing blues dancers, exposure

2009-10-01 Thread Larry Colen
My short article on photgraphing blues dancing seems to want to be a
book when it grows up.

I've finished roughing out the section on exposure:
http://red4est.com/lrc/photowriting/blues_photo_exposure.txt
Comments and feedback appreciated

The parent directory is:
http://red4est.com/lrc/photowriting/

The previous sections are:
http://red4est.com/lrc/photowriting/blues_photo_equip_01.txt
http://red4est.com/lrc/photowriting/blues_photo_equip_02.txt
http://red4est.com/lrc/photowriting/blues_photo_focus_01.txt

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the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc


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Re: K-x color envy is ripe

2009-10-01 Thread Larry Colen
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 10:45:11AM +0200, eckinator wrote:
 That is sooo 80s... meaning it is currently being recycled by
 nincompoop fashion victims all over europe (and elsewhere?)

I confess I only said dayglo pink and lime because I can't spell
chartreuse.


-- 
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the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc


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Re: K-x color envy is ripe

2009-10-01 Thread eckinator
I defnately would of thawt it was spelled shartroose as in caboose...
but then that is probly fonatic...

2009/10/1 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com:
 On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 10:45:11AM +0200, eckinator wrote:
 That is sooo 80s... meaning it is currently being recycled by
 nincompoop fashion victims all over europe (and elsewhere?)

 I confess I only said dayglo pink and lime because I can't spell
 chartreuse.


 --
 The first step is learning to take great photos,
 the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
 Larry Colen             l...@red4est.com            http://www.red4est.com/lrc


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Re: K-x color envy is ripe

2009-10-01 Thread Larry Colen
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 11:49:36AM +0200, eckinator wrote:
 I defnately would of thawt it was spelled shartroose as in caboose...
 but then that is probly fonatic...

You misspelled fonehtik.

 
 2009/10/1 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com:
  On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 10:45:11AM +0200, eckinator wrote:
  That is sooo 80s... meaning it is currently being recycled by
  nincompoop fashion victims all over europe (and elsewhere?)
 
  I confess I only said dayglo pink and lime because I can't spell
  chartreuse.
 
 
  --
  The first step is learning to take great photos,
  the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
  Larry Colen             l...@red4est.com            
  http://www.red4est.com/lrc
 
 
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Re: K-x color envy is ripe

2009-10-01 Thread eckinator
danm disexilance agann... and i jsut new that zealfcawrrakting
kyebroad wuz a ripawff...

2009/10/1 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com:
 On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 11:49:36AM +0200, eckinator wrote:
 I defnately would of thawt it was spelled shartroose as in caboose...
 but then that is probly fonatic...

 You misspelled fonehtik.


 2009/10/1 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com:
  On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 10:45:11AM +0200, eckinator wrote:
  That is sooo 80s... meaning it is currently being recycled by
  nincompoop fashion victims all over europe (and elsewhere?)
 
  I confess I only said dayglo pink and lime because I can't spell
  chartreuse.
 
 
  --
  The first step is learning to take great photos,
  the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
  Larry Colen             l...@red4est.com            
  http://www.red4est.com/lrc
 
 
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Re: K-x color envy is ripe

2009-10-01 Thread Dario Bonazza

eckinator wrote:


danm disexilance agann... and i jsut new that zealfcawrrakting
kyebroad wuz a ripawff...

Mark!

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Re: K-x color envy is ripe

2009-10-01 Thread P. J. Alling

Come clean, you've been giving spelling lessons to Brooks haven't you.

eckinator wrote:

I defnately would of thawt it was spelled shartroose as in caboose...
but then that is probly fonatic...

2009/10/1 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com:
  

On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 10:45:11AM +0200, eckinator wrote:


That is sooo 80s... meaning it is currently being recycled by
nincompoop fashion victims all over europe (and elsewhere?)
  

I confess I only said dayglo pink and lime because I can't spell
chartreuse.


--
The first step is learning to take great photos,
the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc


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The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or 
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn 
fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a 
free man any more than a dog.

--G. K. Chesterton


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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread mike wilson

 AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote: 
 At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
 target date for the 645D.
 
 Jostein

Slow workers, those nuns.  But very thorough.  I bet they can fit many more 
pixels on the sensor than your average assembly worker, too.

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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread Gonz
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 3:20 AM, AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote:
 At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
 target date for the 645D.

 Jostein


Holy crap!




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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread Mark Roberts
mike wilson wrote:

 AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote: 
 At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
 target date for the 645D.

Slow workers, those nuns. But very thorough. I bet they can fit many more 
pixels on the sensor than your average assembly worker, too.

They're very meticulous due to the good habits they've developed over
the years.


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Re: Tomorrow night, I go pro

2009-10-01 Thread Luiz Felipe
Sorry about the guitar job - but I do hope you get way more than 10 
shots like the tomorrow night, each month. Just holler if you need an 
assistant. ;-)


Not to mention other photos...

lf

Larry Colen escreveu:

The guitar showcase job didn't work out. By the time I called her she
had found someone else. The timing would have been rough for me
anyways. 


The deal is that ebay needs photos of products, and someone there
manages to talk various stores into letting them come in and shoot
product in the store (in exchange for copies the photos or whatever).

So, it looks like tomorrow night I've got a 9-5 job shooting pictures
of about 50 products, makeup and the like.

All I need are about 10 shoots like this a month to pay my bills. :)



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Re: PESO - Clean Sweep

2009-10-01 Thread Bruce Walker

frank theriault wrote:

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:


Might I suggest an alternate title: Sisyphus?
;-)


Hey, Camus be serious for a minute?


Don't be absurd.

-bmw

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lens advice needed: FA 100-300 or Sigma DL 75-300?

2009-10-01 Thread Luiz Felipe
As title implies, I need your toughts about those two lenses - both 
available in a BR store, in a distant southeast city so there is 
absolutely no way to run tests. :-(


The FA 100-300 4.7 is a little more expensive, the Sigma 70-300 4.5-5.6 
DL is some $30 cheaper. Both are used, signs of wear, both have been 
serviced but they claim the maintenance was made by a sound shop. The FA 
100-300 has a composite mount, from the pics I've seen, and is regarded 
by some as a poor lens - so poor that the compact Sigma is a better choice??


Your comments are important - is there anyone who had hands experience 
with both, and could elaborate on the differences? Is there any 
important point in either lens that should dictate my choice?


I just received a M42 200mm 4.0 for the formal, slow performances, so 
the intended purpose of this new lens is to be carried in my everyday 
bag next to the DS and the kit lens. All my lenses should be able to 
cover 35mm, and present aperture rings - the 18-55 being excused since 
it came along the DS.


TIA, folks!

lf



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Re: K-x color envy is ripe

2009-10-01 Thread Graydon
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 09:39:17PM -0700, Larry Colen scripsit:
 On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 08:53:05PM -0400, Graydon wrote:
  If the K-x flies off the shelf, you really think the K-# (whatever that
  number might be) won't have the colour options in a year and a bit?
 
 I want a dayglo pink and lime 645D.

And, y'know, I'm pretty sure Pentax would never do that in a million
years and Hoya would do it in a femtosecond if they believed it would
drive sales.

I think that's a net win, myself.

-- Graydon

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Re: Bikes, Blues, BBQ 2009

2009-10-01 Thread Eactivist
In a message dated 9/30/2009 9:56:10 A.M.  Pacific Daylight Time, 
charl...@visi.com writes:
I was going to comment on  that as well.  It's very dark.  Darker than  
I would  like...

-Charles


===
What he said. Some  photos would be rather striking if brighter and not so 
grayed down. It looks  like all have been post processed with a deliberate 
vignetting style. Don't  think that works, at least, not for all.

Marnie aka Doe  :-)

-
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created them. Albert  Einstein  


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Re: Blues GESO- Paul Rishell Annie Rains

2009-10-01 Thread Charles Robinson

On Sep 28, 2009, at 19:15, Michael Beacom wrote:

Pictures of a top drawer Blues duo, in a tiny venue- Archie's  
Barbershop. (http://www.acousticblues.com/)
There were something like 30 or 40 people- just about all the place  
can comfortably hold.
All told, a great evening. I hope I was able to capture some of the  
flavor of the show.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/62343...@n00/sets/72157622467532792/



I was going to comment that it must have been very dark in there,  
until I realized that you were shooting some of those motion-blurred  
images at ISO 1600 - and f/16!


I actually like some of the ones with the motion blur in 'em.  Puts a  
little zing into it even though it lacks the sharpness that I  
usually (for better or worse) push for.  I think especially with the  
pretty bland overhead lighting you needed to do something to liven it  
up.  Not a bad set.


 -Charles

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Re: PESO - When Messengers Gather

2009-10-01 Thread David J Brooks
Nicley framed and composed Frank.

Dave

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 9:06 PM, frank theriault
knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:
 Bike parking on a wet September night:

 http://mondociclismo.blogspot.com/2009/09/when-messengers-gather.html

 Comments welcome.

 Hope you enjoy.

 cheers,
 frank

 --
 Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Re: PESO -- After the Fall XV

2009-10-01 Thread Eactivist
In a message dated 9/22/2009 7:59:44 P.M.  Pacific Daylight Time, 
webstertwenty...@gmail.com writes:
One last one  tonight

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1604247/PESO/PESO%20--%20afterthefallxv.html

Notes:   Converted using Fotomatic BW Plus Red Filter.  Added a layer of  
artificial grain for a film feel. Toned with TLR Platinum Tone  action.

As usual comments are welcome but may be totally  ignored.


=
Nice shot, like the way the collapsed porch  provides perspective - front 
to back in the picture.

Marnie aka Doe  :-)

-
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created them. Albert  Einstein  


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Re: K-x color envy is ripe

2009-10-01 Thread eckinator
yews nad hes benen pasnig me wif broorkklyn brigjee ownerhfipd certogihkats...

2009/10/1 P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com:
 Come clean, you've been giving spelling lessons to Brooks haven't you.

 eckinator wrote:

 I defnately would of thawt it was spelled shartroose as in caboose...
 but then that is probly fonatic...

 2009/10/1 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com:


 On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 10:45:11AM +0200, eckinator wrote:


 That is sooo 80s... meaning it is currently being recycled by
 nincompoop fashion victims all over europe (and elsewhere?)


 I confess I only said dayglo pink and lime because I can't spell
 chartreuse.


 --
 The first step is learning to take great photos,
 the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
 Larry Colen             l...@red4est.com
  http://www.red4est.com/lrc


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 The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or
 drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a
 damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is
 not a free man any more than a dog.

        --G. K. Chesterton


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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread mike wilson

 Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote: 
 mike wilson wrote:
 
  AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote: 
  At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
  target date for the 645D.
 
 Slow workers, those nuns. But very thorough. I bet they can fit many more 
 pixels on the sensor than your average assembly worker, too.
 
 They're very meticulous due to the good habits they've developed over
 the years.

Not a bad cross to bear.

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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread mike wilson

 AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote: 
 At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
 target date for the 645D.

Now, Pentax/Hoya needs to knock together about 250,000 of them, give one each 
to Paris Hilton, Victoria Beckham and a couple of male celebs (funny how I 
can't remember one of _their_ names) and then sit back and enjoy the ride.

We can pick them up from thrift shops in a year or so.

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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread Christian

mike wilson wrote:
 Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote: 

mike wilson wrote:

 AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote: 

At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
target date for the 645D.
Slow workers, those nuns. But very thorough. I bet they can fit many more 
pixels on the sensor than your average assembly worker, too.

They're very meticulous due to the good habits they've developed over
the years.


Not a bad cross to bear.


I just broke my vow to never respond to a pun thread...


--

Christian
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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread Mark Roberts
Christian wrote:

mike wilson wrote:
  Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote: 
 mike wilson wrote:

  AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote: 
 At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
 target date for the 645D.
 Slow workers, those nuns. But very thorough. I bet they can fit many more 
 pixels on the sensor than your average assembly worker, too.
 They're very meticulous due to the good habits they've developed over
 the years.
 
 Not a bad cross to bear.

I just broke my vow to never respond to a pun thread...

I always knew you would: It was pre-ordained.


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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread P. J. Alling

Christian wrote:

mike wilson wrote:

 Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:

mike wilson wrote:


 AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote:
At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was 
mentioned as

target date for the 645D.
Slow workers, those nuns. But very thorough. I bet they can fit 
many more pixels on the sensor than your average assembly worker, too.

They're very meticulous due to the good habits they've developed over
the years.


Not a bad cross to bear.


I just broke my vow to never respond to a pun thread...

Don't be a martyr.






--


The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or 
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn 
fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a 
free man any more than a dog.

--G. K. Chesterton


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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread AlunFoto
2009/10/1 Christian christ...@skofteland.net:
 At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
 target date for the 645D.
 Slow workers, those nuns. But very thorough. I bet they can fit many
 more pixels on the sensor than your average assembly worker, too.
 They're very meticulous due to the good habits they've developed over
 the years.
 Not a bad cross to bear.
 I just broke my vow to never respond to a pun thread...

So, back to the conventional, then. :-)

Jostein
Still laughing at my original typo

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RE: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread Desjardins, Steve
You ain't kiddin', sister.

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of P. J. 
Alling
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 10:52 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: 645D news

Christian wrote:
 mike wilson wrote:
  Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:
 mike wilson wrote:

  AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote:
 At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was 
 mentioned as
 target date for the 645D.
 Slow workers, those nuns. But very thorough. I bet they can fit 
 many more pixels on the sensor than your average assembly worker, too.
 They're very meticulous due to the good habits they've developed over
 the years.

 Not a bad cross to bear.

 I just broke my vow to never respond to a pun thread...
Don't be a martyr.




-- 


The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or 
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn 
fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a 
free man any more than a dog.

--G. K. Chesterton


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Cokin polarizer delaminated

2009-10-01 Thread Luiz Felipe
Just received a piece of no-good news. Unpacked my Cokin set and 
discovered my once lovely polarizer is de-laminating badly. Any clues to 
motive? Did this happen to anyone else??


lf
--
Luiz Felipe
luiz.felipe at techmit.com.br
http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/

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Re: Cokin polarizer delaminated

2009-10-01 Thread P. J. Alling

I've never had a polarizer delaminate, but moisture will do it.

Luiz Felipe wrote:
Just received a piece of no-good news. Unpacked my Cokin set and 
discovered my once lovely polarizer is de-laminating badly. Any clues 
to motive? Did this happen to anyone else??


lf



--


The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or 
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn 
fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a 
free man any more than a dog.

--G. K. Chesterton


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Re: Pentax K-x

2009-10-01 Thread Bong Manayon
Just some shots with the K-x ...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bongmanayon/sets/72157622367038869/

Bong

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Bong Manayon bongmana...@gmail.com wrote:
 The local Pentax dealer got me to try out the K-x for a spin!

 My initial impressions are:
 1. It's black :-)
 2. It's the K-m that grew extra megapixel, live view and video plus
 other improvements.
 3. I never let go of it during our brief road trip; I let my son
 handle the K-7 ...

 Will PESO photos later...

 --
 Bong Manayon
 http://www.bong.uni.cc




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Re: Cokin polarizer delaminated

2009-10-01 Thread eckinator
Could also be fungus bacteria eating into organic matter in the glue
layer. Are there any changes to the surfaces now laid bare?
I recall from the early days of flat panel computer screens how some
manufacturers suffered this issue and had to recall/replace entire
production batches because the edges of their panels were poorly
sealed.
Cheers
Ecke

2009/10/1 P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com:
 I've never had a polarizer delaminate, but moisture will do it.

 Luiz Felipe wrote:

 Just received a piece of no-good news. Unpacked my Cokin set and
 discovered my once lovely polarizer is de-laminating badly. Any clues to
 motive? Did this happen to anyone else??

 lf


 --


 The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or
 drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a
 damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is
 not a free man any more than a dog.

        --G. K. Chesterton


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Re: Cokin polarizer delaminated

2009-10-01 Thread Dario Bonazza

eckinator wrote:

Could also be fungus bacteria eating into organic matter in the glue
layer. Are there any changes to the surfaces now laid bare?
I recall from the early days of flat panel computer screens how some
manufacturers suffered this issue and had to recall/replace entire
production batches because the edges of their panels were poorly
sealed.

Have you noticed that recordable DVD's are oddly made that way now? That's 
for cost reasons for sure, but I'm afraid they won't last.


Dario 



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Re: Cokin polarizer delaminated

2009-10-01 Thread Luiz Felipe
P. J., I dropped one loong ago, before the days of circular polarizers - 
and it delaminated some right after the impact, but stopped despite 
being kept in a drawer for 12+ years. Found it in january, still looking 
the same - just a semi circle delaminated radiating from the ding in the 
border.


Moisture is a problem - but the pesky filter was stored with silica, 
along a lens and some other bits and filters and the rest is looking the 
same as before. The BH pair - circular polarizers, 52  58mm - is 
outside, in the bag since before the P adapters were released and is 
still perfect.


Not a huge setback, but annoying. I'd rather understanding, so it 
doesn't happens again.


lf

P. J. Alling escreveu:

I've never had a polarizer delaminate, but moisture will do it.

Luiz Felipe wrote:
Just received a piece of no-good news. Unpacked my Cokin set and 
discovered my once lovely polarizer is de-laminating badly. Any clues 
to motive? Did this happen to anyone else??


lf





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luiz.felipe at techmit.com.br
http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/

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Re: Cokin polarizer delaminated

2009-10-01 Thread Luiz Felipe
Ecke, the filter is still in one piece - sort of, the layers are still 
attached on each other. Just there is a fairly intricate pattern 
spreading from the borders up to a third part of the radius, on average. 
I'll re-check for other clues at night.


I've seen antibiotics used to enhance antifouling paint on boats... 
but using antibiotics to preserve photo gear is a new idea.


lf

ps: no, I wouldn't do either - there are enough problems with resistant 
strains right now.


eckinator escreveu:

Could also be fungus bacteria eating into organic matter in the glue
layer. Are there any changes to the surfaces now laid bare?
I recall from the early days of flat panel computer screens how some
manufacturers suffered this issue and had to recall/replace entire
production batches because the edges of their panels were poorly
sealed.
Cheers
Ecke

2009/10/1 P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com:

I've never had a polarizer delaminate, but moisture will do it.

Luiz Felipe wrote:

Just received a piece of no-good news. Unpacked my Cokin set and
discovered my once lovely polarizer is de-laminating badly. Any clues to
motive? Did this happen to anyone else??

lf


--


The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a
damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is
not a free man any more than a dog.

   --G. K. Chesterton


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http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/

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Re: peso drain grate

2009-10-01 Thread David J Brooks
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 2:22 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:
 I stopped by Highlands park today to see if there were any good photo
 opportunities of the river. I got a few shots of a small waterfall
 which seem pleasant, but probably a bit cliche'

 http://www.flickriver.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157622360963705/

Number 35670 is very pleasing.



 On my way back to the car, a drain grate caught my eye. I took a few
 frames, this is my favorite, and I think that the longer I look at it,
 the more I like it:

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/3968424714/sizes/o/

 Comments and suggestions are welcome. I can't decide whether it would
 be better if about half of the top third of the image were cropped so
 that the grate wasn't centered in the frame.

I think the first one in the series is the better one, showing the
long top arm and shorter bottom arm.

Dave

 --
 The first step is learning to take great photos,
 the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
 Larry Colen             l...@red4est.com            http://www.red4est.com/lrc


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PESO: Mischief

2009-10-01 Thread Jack Davis
Mischief or, considering the price of some of these shoes, Felony.

Comment as you will.

Jack

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=440


K20, 55~...@230mm (this lens seems to be stuck on the camera), ISO 400, 
1/2000, F/6.7  



  

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Re: Photographing blues dancers, exposure

2009-10-01 Thread David J Brooks
Maybe Pentax can come up with a grey card bluetooth, that would cover
about 80% for those street photog's,:-0

Dave

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:
 My short article on photgraphing blues dancing seems to want to be a
 book when it grows up.

 I've finished roughing out the section on exposure:
 http://red4est.com/lrc/photowriting/blues_photo_exposure.txt
 Comments and feedback appreciated

 The parent directory is:
 http://red4est.com/lrc/photowriting/

 The previous sections are:
 http://red4est.com/lrc/photowriting/blues_photo_equip_01.txt
 http://red4est.com/lrc/photowriting/blues_photo_equip_02.txt
 http://red4est.com/lrc/photowriting/blues_photo_focus_01.txt

 --
 The first step is learning to take great photos,
 the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
 Larry Colen             l...@red4est.com            http://www.red4est.com/lrc


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Re: PESO: Mischief

2009-10-01 Thread David J Brooks
Ha Ha.

I see shoes like that quite often around here.

I need to look up more.

Dave

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Mischief or, considering the price of some of these shoes, Felony.

 Comment as you will.

 Jack

 http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=440


 K20, 55~...@230mm (this lens seems to be stuck on the camera), ISO 400, 
 1/2000, F/6.7





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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread David J Brooks
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Desjardins, Steve desjard...@wlu.edu wrote:
 You ain't kiddin', sister.

Rosary, Mary and Tyme.

Dave

 -Original Message-
 From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of P. J. 
 Alling
 Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 10:52 AM
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Re: 645D news

 Christian wrote:
 mike wilson wrote:
  Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:
 mike wilson wrote:

  AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote:
 At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was
 mentioned as
 target date for the 645D.
 Slow workers, those nuns. But very thorough. I bet they can fit
 many more pixels on the sensor than your average assembly worker, too.
 They're very meticulous due to the good habits they've developed over
 the years.

 Not a bad cross to bear.

 I just broke my vow to never respond to a pun thread...
 Don't be a martyr.




 --


 The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or 
 drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a 
 damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is 
 not a free man any more than a dog.

        --G. K. Chesterton


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Re: Mischief

2009-10-01 Thread William Robb


- Original Message - 
From: Jack Davis 
Subject: PESO: Mischief




Mischief or, considering the price of some of these shoes, Felony.

Comment as you will.

Jack

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=440



We have those little testaments to stupidity all over the place here, too.

William Robb

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Markham fair photo contest

2009-10-01 Thread David J Brooks
Hi gang

I was very pleased at the photo contest results. Two 1st place, one
2nd, two 4ths and two 5ths, in the print classes. They were still
putting the digital results together when we were there. Back on
Saturday to watch the horse show and get Liz a coffee whilst she
announces for the horse show.

I'll see how i did in the digital then.

I entered 10 in digital and 18 in prints(6 BW and 12 colour). I';ll
post a small Geso when i know whats what.

Warning for the squeamish, some shots are with the Nikon cameras.

Dave

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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread Mark Roberts
David J Brooks wrote:

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Desjardins, Steve desjard...@wlu.edu wrote:

 From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of P. 
 J. Alling

 Christian wrote:
 mike wilson wrote:
  Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:
 mike wilson wrote:

  AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote:
 At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was
 mentioned as
 target date for the 645D.
 Slow workers, those nuns. But very thorough. I bet they can fit
 many more pixels on the sensor than your average assembly worker, too.
 They're very meticulous due to the good habits they've developed over
 the years.

 Not a bad cross to bear.

 I just broke my vow to never respond to a pun thread...
 Don't be a martyr.

 You ain't kiddin', sister.

Rosary, Mary and Tyme.

No. Nun of the above.


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Re: Markham fair photo contest

2009-10-01 Thread Mark Roberts
David J Brooks wrote:

I was very pleased at the photo contest results. Two 1st place, one
2nd, two 4ths and two 5ths, in the print classes. They were still
putting the digital results together when we were there. Back on
Saturday to watch the horse show and get Liz a coffee whilst she
announces for the horse show.

I'll see how i did in the digital then.

I entered 10 in digital and 18 in prints(6 BW and 12 colour). I';ll
post a small Geso when i know whats what.

Warning for the squeamish, some shots are with the Nikon cameras.

You still using the D1?


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re: Hey, Henry's + Gmail rah rah

2009-10-01 Thread John Sessoms

From: Tim Bray

I use gmail to read PDML, and for the first time ever it managed to
bring up a Pentax-specific ad. So to reward Henry's (a decent enough
place in my experience) for this worthy investment, here's their
Pentax promotion: http://is.gd/3PAgC

 -T


Prime candidate for web pages that suck though. Horrible navigation.

Click on a link and it opens a cryptic pop-up menu that only stays 
visible for about 15 seconds.


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Re: PESO: Mischief

2009-10-01 Thread Eactivist
In a message dated 10/1/2009 10:25:38 A.M.  Pacific Daylight Time, 
jdavi...@yahoo.com writes:
Mischief or, considering  the price of some of these shoes, Felony.

Comment as you  will.

Jack

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=440


K20,  55~...@230mm (this lens seems to be stuck on the camera), ISO 400, 
1/2000,  F/6.7  

==
Heh. Right, Nikes aren't cheap.

Marnie aka  Doe :-)

-
We can't solve  problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we 
created them. Albert  Einstein  


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Re: Dave Brooks' day

2009-10-01 Thread John Sessoms

From: Larry Colen

Last year I had thanksgiving with a friend I used to date. She is
exactly a year younger than me. At that thanksgiving dinner, out of 12
people, 4 of us were born on Sept. 6th.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 09:00:49AM +0200, AlunFoto wrote:

 2009/9/30 John Francis jo...@panix.com:

  Our maths teacher sprung this one on us in the 5th form
  (ob.us - around 11th grade). ?He asked us to estimate the
  probability that two people in our class of around 30
  shared the same birthday. ?He chose a few people to guess,
  before he revealed the answer. ?I was one of the two top
  maths performers in the class, so he saved me until last.
  My guess? ?100% ! ? ?That surprised him somewhat, until I
  pointed out that we had two sets of twins in the class ...


In my life time, I have met several persons with my name, including one 
who had my exact first, middle and last name.


But I have never met anyone who shared the same birthday.

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Re: peso drain grate

2009-10-01 Thread John Sessoms

From: Boris Liberman

Larry Colen wrote:

 These other two are from the dozen or so I took of the grate, with
 different composition and focus points in the camera:
 Color:
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/3969755144/
 BW
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/3969753436/
 
 The rule I was taught in school is the in-focus subject should be 
 about 1/3 of the way into the frame.


Well, I wasn't speaking about the rule, rather of my perception. 
Though of course the rule is probably some kind of generalization of 
perception of many people.


The second photo is better w.r.t. the rule  ;-) . And I prefer the color 
version.


They say Rules are made to be broken ... that's why I put rule in 
quotes.


But, I was also taught that when you're going to break a rule, you 
ought to have a reason, one you can explain, even if only to yourself, 
what you expect to achieve by breaking the rule.


The rules are a starting point ... like, you got to have a box before 
you can think outside of it.


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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread John Sessoms

From: AlunFoto

At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
target date for the 645D.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/tv/images/programmes/closeddoors_camera.jpg

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Re: K-x color envy is ripe

2009-10-01 Thread John Sessoms

From: Larry Colen

On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 10:45:11AM +0200, eckinator wrote:

 That is sooo 80s... meaning it is currently being recycled by
 nincompoop fashion victims all over europe (and elsewhere?)


I confess I only said dayglo pink and lime because I can't spell
chartreuse.


Dave Brooks wouldn't 'a let that stop HIM!

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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread Mark Roberts
John Sessoms wrote:

From: AlunFoto
 At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
 target date for the 645D.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/tv/images/programmes/closeddoors_camera.jpg

Looks like the 645D does video!


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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread Dario Bonazza

Mark Roberts wrote:


John Sessoms wrote:


From: AlunFoto

At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
target date for the 645D.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/tv/images/programmes/closeddoors_camera.jpg


Looks like the 645D does video!


I expect it to, seriously.

Dario 



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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread Mark Roberts
Dario Bonazza wrote:

Mark Roberts wrote:

 John Sessoms wrote:

From: AlunFoto
 At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
 target date for the 645D.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/tv/images/programmes/closeddoors_camera.jpg

 Looks like the 645D does video!

I expect it to, seriously.

I don't - it uses a CCD, not a CMOS sensor.


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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread Larry Colen
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 02:51:15PM -0400, Mark Roberts wrote:
 John Sessoms wrote:
 
 From: AlunFoto
  At a convent in Tokyo last May, I think 10. June 2010 was mentioned as
  target date for the 645D.
 
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/tv/images/programmes/closeddoors_camera.jpg
 
 Looks like the 645D does video!

But it does it nun too well.


-- 
The first step is learning to take great photos, 
the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc


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Re: Mischief

2009-10-01 Thread Jack Davis
I know...JERKS UNLIMITED!

Jack

--- On Thu, 10/1/09, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: William Robb war...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: Mischief
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 10:27 AM
 
 - Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject:
 PESO: Mischief
 
 
  Mischief or, considering the price of some of these
 shoes, Felony.
  
  Comment as you will.
  
  Jack
  
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=440
  
 
 We have those little testaments to stupidity all over the
 place here, too.
 
 William Robb
 
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Re: Photographing blues dancers, exposure

2009-10-01 Thread Igor Roshchin

Larry,

Some comments and corrections.

 I am constantly talking about how you should shoot for the raw data,
 and correct everything in post processing. If that is the case, then
 setting the color balance at the time you shoot should not make any
 difference. 

It was discussed earlier here on the list (probably about a year ago)
mostly between Godfrey and myself that the way exponometry works
or to be exact, - programmed  
(at least in some cameras, - for sure in *ist DS and Godfrey was
mentioning either K10D or K20D at that point), 
is that in some combination of the WB and the actual light, the 
photographs can be underexposed. This happens, e.g. when you shoot
with the daylight WB in the room with tungsten lights: uncorrected
images are underexposed (after WB corrected).
The mechanism responsible for that is similar to what you describe
in your writeup in the situation of colored lights:
one channel dominates, and the other two are underexposed.
So, it is nice to have the right ball-park setting for WB.

Having it precise might be an overkill in case you are not trying to
get just 1-2-3 shots, but a bunch of them at different parts of the
dance floor. The variance of the light throughout the room may prove
your efforts to be unreasonable, especially if you are going to
correct WB in post-processing anyway.


Also, - if you try to write a universal guide, - keep in mind that
your reference to the green button makes it very narrow-oriented.
It's Pentax-centric, and even with Pentax not applicable to all cameras.

Igor


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Re: PESO: Mischief

2009-10-01 Thread Jack Davis
You should also carry a ladder.
Thanks for commenting, Davis.

--- On Thu, 10/1/09, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Mischief
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 10:30 AM
 Ha Ha.
 
 I see shoes like that quite often around here.
 
 I need to look up more.
 
 Dave
 
 On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  Mischief or, considering the price of some of these
 shoes, Felony.
 
  Comment as you will.
 
  Jack
 
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=440
 
 
  K20, 55~...@230mm (this lens seems to be stuck on
 the camera), ISO 400, 1/2000, F/6.7
 
 
 
 
 
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 Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
 www.caughtinmotion.com
 http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
 York Region, Ontario, Canada
 
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Re: 645D news

2009-10-01 Thread Dario Bonazza

Mark Roberts wrote:


I expect it to, seriously.


I don't - it uses a CCD, not a CMOS sensor.


Touchè

Dario 



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Re: Cokin polarizer delaminated

2009-10-01 Thread eckinator
did I write 'fungus bacteria'? I meant fungus or bacteria of course...

2009/10/1 eckinator eckina...@gmail.com:
 Could also be fungus bacteria eating into organic matter in the glue
 layer. Are there any changes to the surfaces now laid bare?
 I recall from the early days of flat panel computer screens how some
 manufacturers suffered this issue and had to recall/replace entire
 production batches because the edges of their panels were poorly
 sealed.
 Cheers
 Ecke

 2009/10/1 P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com:
 I've never had a polarizer delaminate, but moisture will do it.

 Luiz Felipe wrote:

 Just received a piece of no-good news. Unpacked my Cokin set and
 discovered my once lovely polarizer is de-laminating badly. Any clues to
 motive? Did this happen to anyone else??

 lf


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Re: Photographing blues dancers, exposure

2009-10-01 Thread Larry Colen
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 03:11:42PM -0400, Igor Roshchin wrote:
 
 Larry,
 
 Some comments and corrections.
 
  I am constantly talking about how you should shoot for the raw data,
  and correct everything in post processing. If that is the case, then
  setting the color balance at the time you shoot should not make any
  difference. 
 
 It was discussed earlier here on the list (probably about a year ago)
 mostly between Godfrey and myself that the way exponometry works
 or to be exact, - programmed  
 (at least in some cameras, - for sure in *ist DS and Godfrey was
 mentioning either K10D or K20D at that point), 
 is that in some combination of the WB and the actual light, the 
 photographs can be underexposed. This happens, e.g. when you shoot
 with the daylight WB in the room with tungsten lights: uncorrected
 images are underexposed (after WB corrected).

This makes sense, and is good to know.

 The mechanism responsible for that is similar to what you describe
 in your writeup in the situation of colored lights:
 one channel dominates, and the other two are underexposed.
 So, it is nice to have the right ball-park setting for WB.

That's another good reason for it.

Although, as I mention, the only thing that I've found to really work
when shooting available light is to manually set the exposure, because
it's too easy to fool the camera, especially in dark rooms with one or
two bright lights.

 
 Having it precise might be an overkill in case you are not trying to
 get just 1-2-3 shots, but a bunch of them at different parts of the
 dance floor. The variance of the light throughout the room may prove
 your efforts to be unreasonable, especially if you are going to
 correct WB in post-processing anyway.
 
 
 Also, - if you try to write a universal guide, - keep in mind that
 your reference to the green button makes it very narrow-oriented.
 It's Pentax-centric, and even with Pentax not applicable to all cameras.

Yup. 

This is the first draft, and I'm just working at getting all of my
thoughts down.

Maybe I can convince Pentax that they need to hire me to write
tutorials on how to use pentax gear. We all know that the fastest way
to improve the quality of pictures that a camera takes is usually to
upgrade the meat bipod.

In my experience the Pentax manuals are written for people who don't
know there aperture from a hole in the ground. Their tendency to dumb
things down to the point that they make Archie and Veronica look like
Shakespeare, renders them close to useless.

What I think that they should do is write a high quality manual that
explains, for reasonably intelligent, competent, people how to use all
of the various features and pieces of gear. Print them all in one book
and it would serve as a combination tutorial, user's manual and
advertising brochure by showing the really cool things that you need
this particular piece of kit for. 



 
 Igor
 
 
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the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
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Re: PESO: Mischief

2009-10-01 Thread Charles Robinson

On Oct 1, 2009, at 12:25, Jack Davis wrote:


Mischief or, considering the price of some of these shoes, Felony.

Comment as you will.

Jack

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=440



You doing some HDR kinda stuff on that?  I see lighter and darker  
areas in the sky immediately around the edges of the shoes


 -Charles

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http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson


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Re: Photographing blues dancers, exposure

2009-10-01 Thread Mat Maessen
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:
... Their tendency to dumb
 things down to the point that they make Archie and Veronica look like
 Shakespeare, renders them close to useless.

MARK!

-Mat

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Re: Photographing blues dancers, exposure

2009-10-01 Thread Graydon
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 04:17:08PM -0400, Mat Maessen scripsit:
 On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:
 ... Their tendency to dumb
  things down to the point that they make Archie and Veronica look like
  Shakespeare, renders them close to useless.
 
 MARK!

The Pentax Camera manuals are, for the most part, a physical description
of the device and its functions.  They're not any kind of instructional
manual nor are they intended to allow a complex task (one that involves
more than one function) to be completed.

If Pentax ever wants to hire me to fix that, I'd be happy to, but it's
not likely to be a major priority for them, and producing these are the
10 common photographic tasks, here's how you do them documentation
isn't a trivial exercise.

-- Graydon

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Re: Photographing blues dancers, exposure

2009-10-01 Thread John Francis
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 04:17:08PM -0400, Mat Maessen wrote:
 On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:
 ... Their tendency to dumb
  things down to the point that they make Archie and Veronica look like
  Shakespeare, renders them close to useless.
 
 MARK!

Archie and Jughead, the two gentlemen of Veronica ...


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Re: Photographing blues dancers, exposure

2009-10-01 Thread Larry Colen
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 04:23:34PM -0400, John Francis wrote:
 On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 04:17:08PM -0400, Mat Maessen wrote:
  On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:
  ... Their tendency to dumb
   things down to the point that they make Archie and Veronica look like
   Shakespeare, renders them close to useless.
  
  MARK!
 
 Archie and Jughead, the two gentlemen of Veronica ...

Mark!

 
 
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the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
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Re: PESO: Mischief

2009-10-01 Thread Jack Davis
Yes, I messed with the lighting attempting to see a bit of the shoe soles and 
remove some glare from the uppers. Had to back off to eliminate some haloing, 
but a small amount remains.

Thanks for commenting, Charles.

Jack

--- On Thu, 10/1/09, Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com wrote:

 From: Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Mischief
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 12:49 PM
 On Oct 1, 2009, at 12:25, Jack Davis
 wrote:
 
  Mischief or, considering the price of some of these
 shoes, Felony.
 
  Comment as you will.
 
  Jack
 
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=440
 
 
 You doing some HDR kinda stuff on that?  I see lighter
 and darker  
 areas in the sky immediately around the edges of the
 shoes
 
   -Charles
 
 --
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 Minneapolis, MN
 http://charles.robinsontwins.org
 http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson
 
 
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Re: PESO: Mischief

2009-10-01 Thread Jack Davis
No, I'm sure they're not. I'll bet an embarrassed son will help Dad in a number 
of attempts to cut them down.
I see a butcher knife duct taped to a bamboo poll.

Jack

--- On Thu, 10/1/09, eactiv...@aol.com eactiv...@aol.com wrote:

 From: eactiv...@aol.com eactiv...@aol.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Mischief
 To: pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 11:24 AM
 In a message dated 10/1/2009 10:25:38
 A.M.  Pacific Daylight Time, 
 jdavi...@yahoo.com
 writes:
 Mischief or, considering  the price of some of these
 shoes, Felony.
 
 Comment as you  will.
 
 Jack
 
 http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=440
 
 
 K20,  55~...@230mm (this lens seems to be stuck on
 the camera), ISO 400, 
 1/2000,  F/6.7  
 
 ==
 Heh. Right, Nikes aren't cheap.
 
 Marnie aka  Doe :-)
 
 -
 We can't solve  problems by using the same kind of
 thinking we used when we 
 created them. Albert  Einstein  
 
 
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Re: Dave Brooks' day

2009-10-01 Thread mike wilson

John Sessoms wrote:


From: Larry Colen


Last year I had thanksgiving with a friend I used to date. She is
exactly a year younger than me. At that thanksgiving dinner, out of 12
people, 4 of us were born on Sept. 6th.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 09:00:49AM +0200, AlunFoto wrote:


 2009/9/30 John Francis jo...@panix.com:


  Our maths teacher sprung this one on us in the 5th form
  (ob.us - around 11th grade). ?He asked us to estimate the
  probability that two people in our class of around 30
  shared the same birthday. ?He chose a few people to guess,
  before he revealed the answer. ?I was one of the two top
  maths performers in the class, so he saved me until last.
  My guess? ?100% ! ? ?That surprised him somewhat, until I
  pointed out that we had two sets of twins in the class ...



In my life time, I have met several persons with my name, including one 
who had my exact first, middle and last name.


But I have never met anyone who shared the same birthday.


I have somebody living next door with exactly the same name.  I have 
enough trobles with the taxman over that - God help me if our birthdays 
were the same, too.



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Re: My own Pentax blog.

2009-10-01 Thread Pascal De Pauw

Jostein,

I've used Adobe CameraRaw with de default setting and no automatic 
correction. Sharpning was set to 20. So this could affect testresults, 
althow this amount of sharping is normal in every day use. All images where 
judged with the same settings.
I've tested the setting of sharpening before setting it to 20. And I found 
it te be a good point making a fair compare of the resolution. No sharpening 
made it a bit more difficult to make repeatable judgement of resolution. 
Setting it higher then 30 created artifarcts and would lead to false 
conculsions. I found 20 good, and also the sharping I mostly apply seem to 
be between 15 and 25.


I know this isn't a perfect test, none is, but I already made these test for 
myself and want to share them with the world. The figure that I've got seems 
to confirm my subjective feeling about some lenses.


kind regards,
Pascal.


Pascal, I read your blog before I asked. :-)

What I would like to know is how you judge the exposures. If you apply
sharpening to the exposures before counting line pairs, for example.
Which raw file converter you use is also important, as they seem to
vary in their ability to extract detail. And also which settings for
contrast, sharpness, etc. you used in the camera.

Best,
Jostein

2009/9/30 Pascal De Pauw pascal.de.p...@telenet.be:

Hi Jostein,

Quote from my blog:

Testnote:
For testing I used a ISO 12233 resolution chart as testing object with 
the

camera mounted on tripod using the self-timer and mirror-lockup.

Extra info:
I've printed two A3 testcharts and put them together to a A2 chart. 
Putting
them on the wall and using a gitzo tripod to take raw pictures. I 
analysed

it by just looking at them but did it twice and when there where big
differences I checked it again.

regards,
Pascal. 



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prices started going down

2009-10-01 Thread Igor Roshchin

After some first hesitant jitter (as in $50) 2-3 weeks ago, 
the prices for K7 started going down. 

BuyDig and Beach Camera have it for $1100,
and Amazon has it for $1131.

I'll keep watching.

Igor


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WB and exposure

2009-10-01 Thread Dario Bonazza

Following the discussion about exposure and WB, I was skeptical that WB
setting could affect exposure metering, as in a SLR the meter cells are
independent from the sensor. So I've tested it on my K20D.
I've taken three Av exposures in tungsten light (one with Auto WB, another
one with Daylight WB and the last one with Tungsten WB). As expected,
shutter speed was the same and the histograms of the three shots look 
identical.


Dario


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Re: WB and exposure

2009-10-01 Thread Dario Bonazza

Following the discussion about exposure and WB, I was skeptical that WB
setting could affect exposure metering, as in a SLR the meter cells are
independent from the sensor. So I've tested it on my K20D.
I've taken three Av exposures in tungsten light (one with Auto WB, another
one with Daylight WB and the last one with Tungsten WB). As expected,
shutter speed was the same and the histograms of the three shots look 
identical.


Dario


As a side note,  I believe the possible underexposure that someone noticed 
when shooting under tungsten light can be due to reaching the lower limit of 
the meter range. Once you're there, the camera stops incrementing the 
shutter speed for getting a proper exposure in dim light. Be aware that 
going below the lower limit of the meter is common when shooting shows such 
as music indoors and the like.


Dario 



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Re: PESO: Mischief

2009-10-01 Thread Igor Roshchin


Jack, probably not..

It looks like the left one has a hole
in the front inner part where the top joins the sole.
That might be the reason.

Igor


Thu Oct 1 15:45:13 CDT 2009
Jack Davis wrote:


No, I'm sure they're not. I'll bet an embarrassed son will help Dad in a number 
of attempts to cut them down.
I see a butcher knife duct taped to a bamboo poll.

Jack

--- On Thu, 10/1/09, Eactivist at aol.com Eactivist at aol.com wrote:

 From: Eactivist at aol.com Eactivist at aol.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Mischief
 To: pdml at pdml.net
 Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 11:24 AM
 In a message dated 10/1/2009 10:25:38
 A.M.  Pacific Daylight Time, 
 jdavisf8 at yahoo.com
 writes:
 Mischief or, considering  the price of some of these
 shoes, Felony.
 
 Comment as you  will.
 
 Jack
 
 http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=440
 

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Re: Dave Brooks' day

2009-10-01 Thread Larry Colen
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 09:51:39PM +0100, mike wilson wrote:
 John Sessoms wrote:
 
 From: Larry Colen
 
 Last year I had thanksgiving with a friend I used to date. She is
 exactly a year younger than me. At that thanksgiving dinner, out of 12
 people, 4 of us were born on Sept. 6th.
 
 On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 09:00:49AM +0200, AlunFoto wrote:
 
  2009/9/30 John Francis jo...@panix.com:
 
   Our maths teacher sprung this one on us in the 5th form
   (ob.us - around 11th grade). ?He asked us to estimate the
   probability that two people in our class of around 30
   shared the same birthday. ?He chose a few people to guess,
   before he revealed the answer. ?I was one of the two top
   maths performers in the class, so he saved me until last.
   My guess? ?100% ! ? ?That surprised him somewhat, until I
   pointed out that we had two sets of twins in the class ...
 
 
 In my life time, I have met several persons with my name, including one 
 who had my exact first, middle and last name.
 
 But I have never met anyone who shared the same birthday.
 
 I have somebody living next door with exactly the same name.  I have 
 enough trobles with the taxman over that - God help me if our birthdays 
 were the same, too.

If anyone on this list plays Role Playing Games, they may know the
company Ross Talsorian Games. The owner was a buddy of mine in
college named Mike Smith. Mike is black, and in the late seventies,
and early 80's there weren't a lot of black guys in Davis.

At the time, Mike's daily driver was a beat up '65 'cuda we called
Mother Mopar. She was a bit long in the tooth, but there are some
amusing stories about other drivers being taught what 273 godfearing
American cubic inches could do.

As a black guy, in a mostly white college town, driving a beat up
older car, Mike got pulled over regularly for Driving While Black. On
at least two occasions he was subsequently arrested and taken to jail,
because someone typed in the wrong birthday when entering warrants for
another Mike Smith.

Shortly before Mike married his girlfriend, Lisa Pond, he changed his
name to Pondsmith. That helped with the misentered warrants. Since he
worked at the library for King law school, he bought a window sticker
for the law school and put it on the car. I don't think he was pulled
over for DWB in Davis after that. I guess that cops find harrassing
law students more trouble than it's worth.

 
 
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The first step is learning to take great photos, 
the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc


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Re: Dave Brooks' day

2009-10-01 Thread Eactivist
In a message dated 10/1/2009 11:26:13 A.M.  Pacific Daylight Time, 
jsessoms...@nc.rr.com writes:
In my life time, I have  met several persons with my name, including one 
who had my exact first,  middle and last name.

But I have never met anyone who shared the same  birthday.

==
I've met some people with my same first name, and  first and middle name. 
And more with the same last name, but never all  three.

But I've never met someone with the same birthday  either.

Marnie aka Doe  :-)

-
We can't solve  problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we 
created them. Albert  Einstein  


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RE: Dave Brooks' day

2009-10-01 Thread Bob W
 [...]
 As a black guy, in a mostly white college town, driving a 
 beat up older car, Mike got pulled over regularly for Driving 
 While Black. On at least two occasions he was subsequently 
 arrested and taken to jail, because someone typed in the 
 wrong birthday when entering warrants for another Mike Smith.
 

Should have changed his name to Prawo Jazdy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7899171.stm

[...]


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Re: Dave Brooks' day

2009-10-01 Thread eckinator
LOL... the notorious, elusive serial offender Prawo Jazdy... I'd
almost forgotten him...

2009/10/1 Bob W p...@web-options.com:
  [...]
 As a black guy, in a mostly white college town, driving a
 beat up older car, Mike got pulled over regularly for Driving
 While Black. On at least two occasions he was subsequently
 arrested and taken to jail, because someone typed in the
 wrong birthday when entering warrants for another Mike Smith.


 Should have changed his name to Prawo Jazdy.
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7899171.stm

 [...]


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Re: PESO: Mischief

2009-10-01 Thread Jack Davis
Hadn't noticed that. Owner likely pitched them up there to help his case for a 
new pair.

Thanks, Igor

Jack

--- On Thu, 10/1/09, Igor Roshchin s...@komkon.org wrote:

 From: Igor Roshchin s...@komkon.org
 Subject: Re: PESO: Mischief
 To: PDML@pdml.net
 Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 2:20 PM
 
 
 Jack, probably not..
 
 It looks like the left one has a hole
 in the front inner part where the top joins the sole.
 That might be the reason.
 
 Igor
 
 
 Thu Oct 1 15:45:13 CDT 2009
 Jack Davis wrote:
 
 
 No, I'm sure they're not. I'll bet an embarrassed son will
 help Dad in a number of attempts to cut them down.
 I see a butcher knife duct taped to a bamboo poll.
 
 Jack
 
 --- On Thu, 10/1/09, Eactivist at aol.com Eactivist at
 aol.com wrote:
 
  From: Eactivist at aol.com Eactivist at
 aol.com
  Subject: Re: PESO: Mischief
  To: pdml at pdml.net
  Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 11:24 AM
  In a message dated 10/1/2009 10:25:38
  A.M.  Pacific Daylight Time, 
  jdavisf8 at yahoo.com
  writes:
  Mischief or, considering  the price of some of
 these
  shoes, Felony.
  
  Comment as you  will.
  
  Jack
  
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=440
  
 
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Re: prices started going down

2009-10-01 Thread gldnbearz
I knew about amazon, but when I looked at Beach  Buy Dig over the
weekend, prices hadn't budged yet.

Thanks for monitoring.

- Pat

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Igor Roshchin s...@komkon.org wrote:

 After some first hesitant jitter (as in $50) 2-3 weeks ago,
 the prices for K7 started going down.

 BuyDig and Beach Camera have it for $1100,
 and Amazon has it for $1131.

 I'll keep watching.

 Igor

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Re: Markham fair photo contest

2009-10-01 Thread David J Brooks
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:
 David J Brooks wrote:

I was very pleased at the photo contest results. Two 1st place, one
2nd, two 4ths and two 5ths, in the print classes. They were still
putting the digital results together when we were there. Back on
Saturday to watch the horse show and get Liz a coffee whilst she
announces for the horse show.

I'll see how i did in the digital then.

I entered 10 in digital and 18 in prints(6 BW and 12 colour). I';ll
post a small Geso when i know whats what.

Warning for the squeamish, some shots are with the Nikon cameras.

 You still using the D1?

Yes, but not that much. Mostly D2H, D200 and the K10D.

Dave


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Re: Dave Brooks' day

2009-10-01 Thread David J Brooks
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 2:24 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:

 In my life time, I have met several persons with my name, including one who
 had my exact first, middle and last name.

 But I have never met anyone who shared the same birthday.

There used to be seven Dave Brooks' here in town. Confusing as we use
the same dentists and doctors.:-0

Dave

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Re: WB and exposure

2009-10-01 Thread David J Brooks
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote:
 Following the discussion about exposure and WB, I was skeptical that WB
 setting could affect exposure metering, as in a SLR the meter cells are
 independent from the sensor. So I've tested it on my K20D.
 I've taken three Av exposures in tungsten light (one with Auto WB, another
 one with Daylight WB and the last one with Tungsten WB). As expected,
 shutter speed was the same and the histograms of the three shots look
 identical.

 Dario

 As a side note,  I believe the possible underexposure that someone noticed
 when shooting under tungsten light can be due to reaching the lower limit of
 the meter range. Once you're there, the camera stops incrementing the
 shutter speed for getting a proper exposure in dim light. Be aware that
 going below the lower limit of the meter is common when shooting shows such
 as music indoors and the like.

Or the lens cap is still on the lens.

Dave

 Dario

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Re: Hey, Henry's + Gmail rah rah

2009-10-01 Thread David J Brooks
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 2:20 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:
 From: Tim Bray

 I use gmail to read PDML, and for the first time ever it managed to
 bring up a Pentax-specific ad. So to reward Henry's (a decent enough
 place in my experience) for this worthy investment, here's their
 Pentax promotion: http://is.gd/3PAgC

  -T

 Prime candidate for web pages that suck though. Horrible navigation.

 Click on a link and it opens a cryptic pop-up menu that only stays visible
 for about 15 seconds.

Maybe so, but the salesman i deal with in Newmarket gives me 10% off,
so i'll suffer through the site.:-)

Dave

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Re: Dave Brooks' day

2009-10-01 Thread Cotty
On 29/9/09, Tom Cakalic, discombobulated, unleashed:

You all can say anything you like on the list, I've always been a
proponent of that.

Ni!

--


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



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PESO: first 6x7 peso

2009-10-01 Thread Luka Knezevic-Strika
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tamoneki/3971912621/

Pentax 6x7, fuji pro 160c, scanning with k10d against my lcd screen
love the big camera :)
unfortunately, it's currently being repaired - i borrowed it to a
friend and he managed to do something to the rewind mechanism, but
well, at least he found the repairman and will give it back only once
it's repaired.

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WB and exposure

2009-10-01 Thread Igor Roshchin


Dario,

I just looked up our 2-year e-mail exchange:
http://www.pdml.net/pipermail/pdml_pdml.net/2007-August/086939.html

I stand corrected for the fact that Godfrey did NOT see it with his
K10D, while I did with my *ist DS.
In the messages linked above Godfrey gives a very reasonable
explanation of why it can happen.

And no, I don't think I am hitting the low limit of the meter.
(E.g. 1/15s f/1.4-f/2.8)
But yes, it does happen in relatively low light.

Igor


On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Dario Bonazza dario.bonazza at virgilio.it 
wrote:
 Following the discussion about exposure and WB, I was skeptical that WB
 setting could affect exposure metering, as in a SLR the meter cells are
 independent from the sensor. So I've tested it on my K20D.
 I've taken three Av exposures in tungsten light (one with Auto WB, another
 one with Daylight WB and the last one with Tungsten WB). As expected,
 shutter speed was the same and the histograms of the three shots look
 identical.

 Dario

 As a side note,  I believe the possible underexposure that someone noticed
 when shooting under tungsten light can be due to reaching the lower limit of
 the meter range. Once you're there, the camera stops incrementing the
 shutter speed for getting a proper exposure in dim light. Be aware that
 going below the lower limit of the meter is common when shooting shows such
 as music indoors and the like.


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Re: Dave Brooks' day

2009-10-01 Thread Scott Loveless
On 10/1/09, Cotty cotty...@mac.com wrote:
 On 29/9/09, Tom Cakalic, discombobulated, unleashed:


  You all can say anything you like on the list, I've always been a
  proponent of that.


 Ni!

I know I have your phone number around here somewhere.  No...that's
your wife's.  I guess it'll have to do.  Need a gmail invite?

-- 
Scott Loveless
Cigarette-free since December 14th, 2008
http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/

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Re: Blues GESO- Paul Rishell Annie Rains

2009-10-01 Thread Michael Beacom


On Oct 1, 2009, at 9:44 AM, Charles Robinson wrote:


On Sep 28, 2009, at 19:15, Michael Beacom wrote:

Pictures of a top drawer Blues duo, in a tiny venue- Archie's  
Barbershop. (http://www.acousticblues.com/)
There were something like 30 or 40 people- just about all the  
place can comfortably hold.
All told, a great evening. I hope I was able to capture some of  
the flavor of the show.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/62343...@n00/sets/72157622467532792/



I was going to comment that it must have been very dark in there,  
until I realized that you were shooting some of those motion- 
blurred images at ISO 1600 - and f/16!


I actually like some of the ones with the motion blur in 'em.  Puts  
a little zing into it even though it lacks the sharpness that I  
usually (for better or worse) push for.  I think especially with  
the pretty bland overhead lighting you needed to do something to  
liven it up.  Not a bad set.


 -Charles



Thanks for the comments!
I was experimenting with the blur- and in 20-20 hindsight, I should  
have stayed at f8, and minimized camera shake.
I started the night with manual focus lenses, and decided that I  
really need a KatzEye screen. The K100D is tough to manually focus in  
available darkness.


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Re: Markham fair photo contest

2009-10-01 Thread Bob Sullivan
Sounds good Dave.
I look forward to seeing the pictures.
Regards, Bob S.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 5:23 PM, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:
 David J Brooks wrote:

I was very pleased at the photo contest results. Two 1st place, one
2nd, two 4ths and two 5ths, in the print classes. They were still
putting the digital results together when we were there. Back on
Saturday to watch the horse show and get Liz a coffee whilst she
announces for the horse show.

I'll see how i did in the digital then.

I entered 10 in digital and 18 in prints(6 BW and 12 colour). I';ll
post a small Geso when i know whats what.

Warning for the squeamish, some shots are with the Nikon cameras.

 You still using the D1?

 Yes, but not that much. Mostly D2H, D200 and the K10D.

 Dave


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My first blog (GESO)

2009-10-01 Thread Tim Øsleby
I've decided. Now it is time to become cool.
So I've created a blog

http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/

First real post is in Norwegian. But I think you are able to read the pictures.
Enjoy, and please feel free to leave a comment (Comments in English
will make me even cooler).

The pictures are from a journey with the local photo club to our surf
paradise Hoddevikssanden.

Every now and then I may post some PDML stuff here to. Time will tell.

-- 
MaritimTim

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Re: PESO: first 6x7 peso

2009-10-01 Thread Tim Bray
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Luka Knezevic-Strika
lukastr...@gmail.com wrote:
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tamoneki/3971912621/

 Pentax 6x7, fuji pro 160c, scanning with k10d against my lcd screen
 love the big camera :)
 unfortunately, it's currently being repaired - i borrowed it to a
 friend and he managed to do something to the rewind mechanism, but
 well, at least he found the repairman and will give it back only once
 it's repaired.

Hey, what's that building? I've been there but I can't remember where/when.  -T

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Re: My first blog (GESO)

2009-10-01 Thread Tim Bray
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Tim Øsleby maritim...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've decided. Now it is time to become cool.
 So I've created a blog

You are now much more fashionable.

 http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/

Could the beautiful pictures be bigger?  -T

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Re: Cokin polarizer delaminated

2009-10-01 Thread P. J. Alling
I haven't studied micro biology in quite some time, the kingdoms have 
been seriously re-arranged.  If there was such a thing as a 
fungus-bacteria now I wouldn't be at all surprised...


eckinator wrote:

did I write 'fungus bacteria'? I meant fungus or bacteria of course...

2009/10/1 eckinator eckina...@gmail.com:
  

Could also be fungus bacteria eating into organic matter in the glue
layer. Are there any changes to the surfaces now laid bare?
I recall from the early days of flat panel computer screens how some
manufacturers suffered this issue and had to recall/replace entire
production batches because the edges of their panels were poorly
sealed.
Cheers
Ecke

2009/10/1 P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com:


I've never had a polarizer delaminate, but moisture will do it.

Luiz Felipe wrote:
  

Just received a piece of no-good news. Unpacked my Cokin set and
discovered my once lovely polarizer is de-laminating badly. Any clues to
motive? Did this happen to anyone else??

lf


--


The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a
damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is
not a free man any more than a dog.

   --G. K. Chesterton


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--


The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or 
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn 
fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a 
free man any more than a dog.

--G. K. Chesterton


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Re: Photographing blues dancers, exposure

2009-10-01 Thread P. J. Alling

Larry Colen wrote:

On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 04:23:34PM -0400, John Francis wrote:
  

On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 04:17:08PM -0400, Mat Maessen wrote:


On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:
  

... Their tendency to dumb
things down to the point that they make Archie and Veronica look like
Shakespeare, renders them close to useless.


MARK!
  

Archie and Jughead, the two gentlemen of Veronica ...



Mark!
  

Shouldn't that be Archie and Reggie the two gentlemen of Veronica...


--


The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or 
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn 
fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a 
free man any more than a dog.

--G. K. Chesterton


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Re: turning my 50mm macro into a 100mm macro

2009-10-01 Thread CheekyGeek
The 105mm Series 1 Macro is the same as the Kiron 105mm macro and
should sell for the same price (from what I've seen around $300).

Another higher priced option that people seem to speak highly of is
the Tamron SP 90mm macro.

On 2/22/09, Christian christ...@skofteland.net wrote:
 Larry Colen wrote:
 On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 07:13:20PM -0500, Adam Maas wrote:

 #  So, I just thought I'd check out the level of interest in the 50 and
 #  see if anyone as a 100 that they're thinking of selling.
 # 
 # 
 #
 # Buy a Kiron/Lester Dine or Vivitar 105mm f2.8 in KA form for much
 cheaper?

 OK, what are the options for 100mm-ish macros that also work well as
 general purpose lenses? What are their strengths and weaknesses?


 105mm f2.5 Vivitar Series 1 macro.  An outstandingly sharp lens and
 usually relatively inexpensive on the used market.  On the LX and *ist D
 I used it as a general purpose short tele, portrait lens and it was a
 perfect 1:1 macro lens.

 Christian

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-- 
I like smoke and lightning
Heavy metal thunder
Chasin' with the wind
And the feelin' that I'm under

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Blurb 2.5

2009-10-01 Thread Stan Halpin
Just downloaded the newest version of Blurb's Booksmart. They now  
allow you to edit the standard layouts, and to save the edited version  
with a custom name so you can re-use it. This eliminates one of my  
major frustrations with the program. I feel inspired to get back to  
work on my Rome book!


stan

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Re: My first blog (GESO)

2009-10-01 Thread P. J. Alling

Translation by Google

Weather forecast was like in the middle of the tree.  But what does it 
well when to engage with something fun, in good company with good food 
and drink? . Even Canonister without værtetting can have a good time 
when (as long as they do not throw up in spring the stones).


MARK!

(Getting on the quotes list is cooler).


Tim Øsleby wrote:

I've decided. Now it is time to become cool.
So I've created a blog

http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/

First real post is in Norwegian. But I think you are able to read the pictures.
Enjoy, and please feel free to leave a comment (Comments in English
will make me even cooler).

The pictures are from a journey with the local photo club to our surf
paradise Hoddevikssanden.

Every now and then I may post some PDML stuff here to. Time will tell.

  



--


The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or 
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn 
fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a 
free man any more than a dog.

--G. K. Chesterton


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