RE: PESO - Where'd Ya Get the Gun, John?

[Bob W]

> 
> The title is a line from a favourite Guess Who song, Rain Dance.
> 
> Don't know why I like it, but I do:
> 
> http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.com/2012/01/whered-ya-get-gun-john.html
> 

is that a real one or a toy? Over here you're not allowed to sell
realistic-looking toy guns in case criminals use them to hold up banks.. 

On the other hand, one day last year I saw a very real AK47 for sale on
Greenwich market.

B


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RE: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[Bob W]

> From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
> John Francis
[...]
> But relying on auto exposure metering under tricky lighting conditions
> is a pretty poor strategy.  That's why your camera has a spot metering
> mode, and an exposure compensation setting - so you can take control of
> the situation yourself. Or you can go the whole hog, and use an
> incident
> light meter.

Well said! Every photographer should have a whole hog in his arsenal.

B


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RE: PESO: Street

[Bob W]

> From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
> Tim Bray
> 
> pic at http://goo.gl/f5MNB
> Associated bloggage, wherein I grumble about what people mean when
> they say "street photography", at
> http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2012/01/28/Street
> 

you obviously haven't been paying attention. 

'Street' photography has never been exclusively or even mainly about
"low-contrast B&W captures of people usually against unremarkable
backgrounds". 

I started to refer you to links about the history and mainstream of
so-called street photography, but I quickly realised it would involved
writing a history of photography itself, so instead I refer you to any
decent book on the subject.

B 


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RE: OT PESO - Aussy Day Lightshow

[Bob W]

> > On a day that saw the mercury hit 42°C, I still went out that night
> to
> > shoot the fireworks here in Fremantle, and got an added bonus:
> >
> > 
> 

great photo!

> Very nicely done.  That must be one super wide lens.
> 
> A pregnant friend of mine recently moved to Perth.  She recently posted
> on Facebook that she spent some time sheltering from the 40-degree heat
> in a liquor store's cool room.  Poor thing wouldn't have been able to
> touch a drop of the product!
> 
> She had the baby last week and all seems to be well.
> 

She should call it Ranulph.


> BTW it's Australia Day here every two weeks.  It's to do with the
> colours of our three waste bins: on week 1 we put out the green and
> yellow bins (so I call it Australia Day) and week 2 we put out the
> green and red ones (so I call it Christmas).
> 
> [Red = rubbish (landfill); Green = organic waste, Yellow = recycling.]
> 

Here we have black, green and blue respectively. We have to keep the bins at
the front of the house, where they're accessible from the street, so
passers-by put all sorts of crap in whatever bin is handy for them.
Similarly the builders fill them all up with rubble, so the garbologists get
really temperamental about it every Monday morning and leave stroppy notes
about correct bin protocol. 

My neighbour has been engaged in low-grade guerilla warfare with the garbos
since before I moved here 16 years ago. When I asked her for the background
she told me it all results from one day when they insulted her father. In
1944.

B


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PESO: Clouds over the Crater

[Daniel J. Matyola]

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073312

Comments and criticisms are invited.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

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Re: PESO: Clouds over the Crater

[Tim Bray]

That's excellent.  A bit of background on where and how? -T

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Daniel J. Matyola  wrote:
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073312
>
> Comments and criticisms are invited.
>
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>
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Re: BBC Dramadoc with Pentax content

[Cotty]

For US and all non-UK residents who want to see this drama-doc it's here:



90 mins, no idea how long it will stay up!



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Re: BBC Dramadoc with Pentax content

[Cotty]

On 29/1/12, Cotty, discombobulated, unleashed:

>For US and all non-UK residents who want to see this drama-doc it's here:
>
>
>
>90 mins, no idea how long it will stay up!


And interesting blog here:





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Re: PESO: Clouds over the Crater

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Thanks, dTim.

My wife and I are in vacation on Maui.  Earlier this week we left our
condo at 4:00 AM and drove up to the summit of Haleakala Volcano
(10,023 feet above sea level) to watch the sunrise.  This is an image
of the craters in the summit area just a few minutes after sunrise
(7:00 AM).

I have done this before, but on days where the trade winds cleared the
clouds away shortly after sunrise.  On this occasion, there was a
rare Kona wind, from the south, that held the clouds for quite a
while, creating a much different mood.  Although this image lacks the
brilliant colors of the ones I took last year and previously, I really
like the feeling of the mountain dominated by the clouds.

Thanks for looking and commenting.

Dan
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 4:59 AM, Tim Bray  wrote:
> That's excellent.  A bit of background on where and how? -T
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Daniel J. Matyola  
> wrote:
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073312
>>
>> Comments and criticisms are invited.
>>
>> Dan Matyola
>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>>
>> --
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OT: Lucky me - I got a new job at the age of 62!

[Jens]

Hi List
I left my job as an urban planner a couple of years ago. I left because I 
didn't like my new boss - a VERY arrogant woman-architect. Nobody seemed to 
like her. She made life Hell for a lot our employees.
So, I,ve been working as a planner (dealing with building applicataions) for 2 
years. I was supposed to stop working (early retirement) in june 2012. I am 62, 
so a new job was not really an issue - it's practically impossible in Denmark, 
these days. So, I was getting in gear for upgrading my small photography 
business to a full time day job.

But guess what - I got a new job - urban planning (I graduated as an 
architect/urban planner back in 1978 and have been working as such for the last 
33f years) in the municipallity of Egedal - a small community in the northern 
Copenhagen area. Lucky me! 

So, photography will remain a hobby/very small business of mine, at least until 
2014.

I recently bought a Pentax 67 and a 67II. And I'm lookiing forward to getting 
real nice high resolution scans of 65 Megapixel very soon :-)

If I win the lottery, I'll get myself a Pentax 645D - or a nice Phase One w. 60 
MP back.


BTW: 
Mamiya and Leaf recently joined forces - I believe perhaps they are both owned 
by Danish Phase One. But these cameras and backs are unfortunately much too 
expensive for me.
Pentax 645D is a bit closer to my kind of budget :-)
 
Regards
Jens

 


 
Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.

On Jan 29, 2012 10:45 "Daniel J. Matyola"  wrote:

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RE: PESO: Clouds over the Crater

[Bob W]

> From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
> Daniel J. Matyola
> 
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073312
> 

that's terrific - a very volcano-like volcano.

B


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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[Paul Stenquist]

On Jan 29, 2012, at 12:16 AM, steve harley wrote:

> on 2012-01-28 21:57 Paul Stenquist wrote
>> That's basically what today's best meters do. But they still can't gauge 
>> reflectivity and color as well as the human eye can. The meter makes a call 
>> and a good photographer makes the necessary adjustment. Most of the time the 
>> meter will come close enough for all practical purposes. for those times 
>> when it can't the photographer has to lend a hand. It wouldn't be much fun 
>> if machines did all the work.
> 
> i submit that most of us don't have "today's best meters"

The K-5 comes somewhat close, but no it's not at the top of the heap. But it's 
more than good enough when photographers use their brain as well as their 
meters.
Paul
> 
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Re: PESO: Clouds over the Crater

[Paul Stenquist]

Very nice. I like the monochromatic look and rendering that preserves the 
highlights. Well done.
Paul
On Jan 29, 2012, at 4:45 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073312
> 
> Comments and criticisms are invited.
> 
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
> 
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Re: OT: Lucky me - I got a new job at the age of 62!

[Paul Stenquist]

Congratulations Jens! 
On Jan 29, 2012, at 5:21 AM, Jens wrote:

> Hi List
> I left my job as an urban planner a couple of years ago. I left because I 
> didn't like my new boss - a VERY arrogant woman-architect. Nobody seemed to 
> like her. She made life Hell for a lot our employees.
> So, I,ve been working as a planner (dealing with building applicataions) for 
> 2 years. I was supposed to stop working (early retirement) in june 2012. I am 
> 62, so a new job was not really an issue - it's practically impossible in 
> Denmark, these days. So, I was getting in gear for upgrading my small 
> photography business to a full time day job.
> 
> But guess what - I got a new job - urban planning (I graduated as an 
> architect/urban planner back in 1978 and have been working as such for the 
> last 33f years) in the municipallity of Egedal - a small community in the 
> northern Copenhagen area. Lucky me! 
> 
> So, photography will remain a hobby/very small business of mine, at least 
> until 2014.
> 
> I recently bought a Pentax 67 and a 67II. And I'm lookiing forward to getting 
> real nice high resolution scans of 65 Megapixel very soon :-)
> 
> If I win the lottery, I'll get myself a Pentax 645D - or a nice Phase One w. 
> 60 MP back.
> 
> 
> BTW: 
> Mamiya and Leaf recently joined forces - I believe perhaps they are both 
> owned by Danish Phase One. But these cameras and backs are unfortunately much 
> too expensive for me.
> Pentax 645D is a bit closer to my kind of budget :-)
> 
> Regards
> Jens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.
> 
> On Jan 29, 2012 10:45 "Daniel J. Matyola"  wrote:
> 
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Re: PESO: Clouds over the Crater

[Jack Davis]

Well rendered, Dan. Pleasing composition and tones.

Jack


- Original Message -
From: Daniel J. Matyola 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 1:45 AM
Subject: PESO: Clouds over the Crater

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073312

Comments and criticisms are invited.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

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OT PESO - Occupy

[David Savage]

G'day All,

Met up with a group of friends for a BBQ a few weeks ago & roped them
in as models for this:



SB900 @ 1/4 power camera left, 480EXII @ 1/4 power behind the angry
bear, Vivitar 285  @ 1/4 power camera right. RF-602 triggers.

 There is a running joke here that would take far too long to try and
explain :-)

Just for sh!ts & giggles.

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Dave.

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Re: OT PESO - Aussy Day Lightshow

[David Savage]

Oh I don't know, I reckon they mix quite well.

I was sitting downwind from the fireworks and was more concerned about
getting hit by a big chunk of exploded shell casing.

DS

On 29 January 2012 01:39, Bob Sullivan  wrote:
> Dave,
> I can't imagine that fireworks and lightning mix real well.
> Something comes to mind about the current liking the rocket wake as a
> path back to the ground.
> Regards,  Bob S.
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 11:05 AM, David Savage  wrote:
>> And yes I misspelt Aussie.
>>
>> DS
>>
>> On 29 January 2012 00:59, David Savage  wrote:
>>> G'day All,
>>>
>>> As some of you may be aware, it was Australia Day here a couple of days ago.
>>>
>>> On a day that saw the mercury hit 42°C, I still went out that night to
>>> shoot the fireworks here in Fremantle, and got an added bonus:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Enjoy.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
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Re: OT PESO - Aussy Day Lightshow

[David Savage]

Possibly, but I'm not cropping a 14mm (on full frame) image that servilely :-)

On 29 January 2012 01:49, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Very cool. Might be even more impactful as a vertical, cropped just a bit to 
> the right of the lightning.
> Paul
>
> .
> On Jan 28, 2012, at 11:59 AM, David Savage wrote:
>
>> G'day All,
>>
>> As some of you may be aware, it was Australia Day here a couple of days ago.
>>
>> On a day that saw the mercury hit 42°C, I still went out that night to
>> shoot the fireworks here in Fremantle, and got an added bonus:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Enjoy.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dave
>>
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Re: OT PESO - Aussy Day Lightshow

[David Savage]

Thanks Dan.

On 29 January 2012 02:31, Daniel J. Matyola  wrote:
> Great image and a wonderful catch with the lightning.  I like the
> three types of lighting that you included across the image.  Really
> effective and compelling.
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 11:59 AM, David Savage  wrote:
>> G'day All,
>>
>> As some of you may be aware, it was Australia Day here a couple of days ago.
>>
>> On a day that saw the mercury hit 42°C, I still went out that night to
>> shoot the fireworks here in Fremantle, and got an added bonus:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Enjoy.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dave

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Re: OT PESO - Aussy Day Lightshow

[David Savage]

Thanks Dave.

DS

On 29 January 2012 02:37, David J Brooks  wrote:
> Excellent job
>
> Dave
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 11:59 AM, David Savage  wrote:
>> G'day All,
>>
>> As some of you may be aware, it was Australia Day here a couple of days ago.
>>
>> On a day that saw the mercury hit 42°C, I still went out that night to
>> shoot the fireworks here in Fremantle, and got an added bonus:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Enjoy.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dave

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Re: OT PESO - Aussy Day Lightshow

[David Savage]

Thanks Tim.

If I corrected the distortion I would loose some of the firework & the
ferris wheel. 2 elements that I wanted in the frame. The lighting
showing up an added bonus.

DS

On 29 January 2012 07:13, Tim Bray  wrote:
> That's brilliant; could you correct the keyhole distortion without
> ruining the composition? -T
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 8:59 AM, David Savage  wrote:
>>
>> G'day All,
>>
>> As some of you may be aware, it was Australia Day here a couple of days ago.
>>
>> On a day that saw the mercury hit 42°C, I still went out that night to
>> shoot the fireworks here in Fremantle, and got an added bonus:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Enjoy.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dave
>>
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Re: Paw 5 Up a tree with out a ......

[David J Brooks]

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Bob Sullivan  wrote:
> Dave,
> Nice environmental portrait.  Wish he was a bit brighter, but that
> might blow-out the snow.
> Regards,  Bob S.

I did have to use the fill slider in LR. It was a pretty dull day, but
should have tried some fill flash, but it all happened to quick.

Dave
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:42 PM, David J Brooks  wrote:
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15069475
>>
>> Taken this afternoon out back. We have had all day heavy wet snow, its
>> -1 C here, and i just wondered around the yard. This guy is one of the
>> ones that will wait by the side door patiently for peanuts.
>>
>> K-5 D FA 50 f2.8 iso 80o f4.5 1/1000
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> --
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>> www.caughtinmotion.com
>> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
>> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>>
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Re: OT PESO - Aussy Day Lightshow

[David Savage]

On 29 January 2012 07:24, John Sessoms  wrote:
> From: David Savage
>
>> And yes I misspelt Aussie.
>>
>> DS
>>
>> On 29 January 2012 00:59, David Savage  wrote:
>>>
>>> G'day All,
>>>
>>> As some of you may be aware, it was Australia Day here a couple of days
>>> ago.
>>>
>>> On a day that saw the mercury hit 42?C, I still went out that night to
>>>
>>> shoot the fireworks here in Fremantle, and got an added bonus:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Enjoy.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Dave
>
>
> I think it's a great image, but the obvious distortion in the lower corners
> is a bit off-putting.

Thanks John.

When shooting UWA I just accept the distortion :-)

DS

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Re: PESO: Clouds over the Crater

[David J Brooks]

Beautiful

Dave

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 4:45 AM, Daniel J. Matyola  wrote:
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073312
>
> Comments and criticisms are invited.
>
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>
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Re: OT PESO - Aussy Day Lightshow

[David Savage]

On 29 January 2012 13:57, David Mann  wrote:
> On Jan 29, 2012, at 5:59 AM, David Savage wrote:
>
>> On a day that saw the mercury hit 42°C, I still went out that night to
>> shoot the fireworks here in Fremantle, and got an added bonus:
>>
>> 
>
> Very nicely done.  That must be one super wide lens.

Thank you Dave.

It was shot with the Nikon 14-24mm @ 14mm. Pretty wide on the D700

>
> A pregnant friend of mine recently moved to Perth.  She recently posted on 
> Facebook that she spent some time sheltering from the 40-degree heat in a 
> liquor store's cool room.  Poor thing wouldn't have been able to touch a drop 
> of the product!
>
> She had the baby last week and all seems to be well.

I really feel sorry for her, it's been horrendous here this week.
Today was the coolest day we've had in about 5 days (@ 33˚ C).

> BTW it's Australia Day here every two weeks.  It's to do with the colours of 
> our three waste bins: on week 1 we put out the green and yellow bins (so I 
> call it Australia Day) and week 2 we put out the green and red ones (so I 
> call it Christmas).
>
> [Red = rubbish (landfill); Green = organic waste, Yellow = recycling.]

Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, oi, oi ,oi!!! :-)

Some of the local councils here have similar colour coded bins here
(Not mine thought)

DS

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Re: OT PESO - Aussy Day Lightshow

[David Savage]

On 29 January 2012 16:33, Bob W  wrote:
>> > On a day that saw the mercury hit 42°C, I still went out that night
>> to
>> > shoot the fireworks here in Fremantle, and got an added bonus:
>> >
>> > 
>>
>
> great photo!

Thanks Bob.

Cheers,

Dave

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Re: Old photo, new PESO

[David J Brooks]

Your lucky to have a lightroom catalog, back in my day.

nice clan photo and sparkly



dave



On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Mark Roberts
 wrote:
> I shot this a couple of years ago but rediscovered it yesterday while
> going through my Lightroom catalog:
> http://www.robertstech.com/pages/fotoblog/7da05534.htm
>
>
> --
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> www.robertstech.com
>
>
>
>
>
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Peso, pensive

[David J Brooks]

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15069473

Norman watching the snow.

k-5 D FA 50 f2.8 small crop amount in LR3

Dave

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Re: Copyright - Most Worrying!

[Mark C]

On 1/25/2012 12:15 PM, Joseph McAllister wrote:

All the more reason to go through all those images you've taken in the last 50 
years, with a lawyer at your side and a stack of Copyright infringement forms 
ready to be filled out.


Isn't that Kodak's business model? Oh wait, those are patents, not 
photos


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Re: GESO Reconstruction

[Mark C]

On 1/26/2012 4:42 PM, Toine wrote:

Last week I had the opportunity to visit a building project from the
inside. It was almost pitch black and the K5 managed to squeeze the
last light out of the steel and concrete.

http://www.repiuk.nl/index.php/blog-mainmenu-97/209-reconstruction

Toine


That top pano is really striking!

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Re: OT: Lucky me - I got a new job at the age of 62!

[Bob Sullivan]

Jens,
Congratulations and good for you!
The late 50's and early 60's are dangerous ages for employment.
You frequently know too much and grow impatient with bull shit.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Jens  wrote:
> Hi List
> I left my job as an urban planner a couple of years ago. I left because I 
> didn't like my new boss - a VERY arrogant woman-architect. Nobody seemed to 
> like her. She made life Hell for a lot our employees.
> So, I,ve been working as a planner (dealing with building applicataions) for 
> 2 years. I was supposed to stop working (early retirement) in june 2012. I am 
> 62, so a new job was not really an issue - it's practically impossible in 
> Denmark, these days. So, I was getting in gear for upgrading my small 
> photography business to a full time day job.
>
> But guess what - I got a new job - urban planning (I graduated as an 
> architect/urban planner back in 1978 and have been working as such for the 
> last 33f years) in the municipallity of Egedal - a small community in the 
> northern Copenhagen area. Lucky me!
>
> So, photography will remain a hobby/very small business of mine, at least 
> until 2014.
>
> I recently bought a Pentax 67 and a 67II. And I'm lookiing forward to getting 
> real nice high resolution scans of 65 Megapixel very soon :-)
>
> If I win the lottery, I'll get myself a Pentax 645D - or a nice Phase One w. 
> 60 MP back.
>
>
> BTW:
> Mamiya and Leaf recently joined forces - I believe perhaps they are both 
> owned by Danish Phase One. But these cameras and backs are unfortunately much 
> too expensive for me.
> Pentax 645D is a bit closer to my kind of budget :-)
>
> Regards
> Jens
>
>
>
>
>
> Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.
>
> On Jan 29, 2012 10:45 "Daniel J. Matyola"  wrote:
>
> --
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Re: BBC Dramadoc with Pentax content

[Christine Aguila]

I'm 24 minutes in--it's great fun!  Thanks for posting, Cotty.  Cheers, 
Christine


On Jan 29, 2012, at 3:59 AM, Cotty wrote:

> For US and all non-UK residents who want to see this drama-doc it's here:
> 
> 
> 
> 90 mins, no idea how long it will stay up!
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
> 
> 
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
> --  http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
> 
> 
> 
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Re: PESO: Street

[Bob Sullivan]

Tim,
Photo is fine, but the blog post is better.
I can't get into grey on grey photos of the street.
Only Frank T. and Juan B. do things that hold my interest.
The rest is imitation and imitation of imitation.
(Remember, your slice of life is not so fascinating - get over it.)
Regards,  Bob S.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:35 AM, Tim Bray  wrote:
> pic at http://goo.gl/f5MNB
> Associated bloggage, wherein I grumble about what people mean when
> they say "street photography", at
> http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2012/01/28/Street
>
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Re: PESO: Clouds over the Crater

[Bob Sullivan]

Just beautiful Dan!

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Daniel J. Matyola  wrote:
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073312
>
> Comments and criticisms are invited.
>
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>
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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[George Sinos]

In general, I appreciate the developments and improvements that the
camera designers have come up with the give us better tools and extend
our creative reach.

At some point, it becomes problematic when they try to remove human
judgement from the equation.

For instance, the developments in auto-focus.

At one point the human would pick the point in the image on which to
focus, line up some little focusing aid in the viewfinder, the camera
would then adjust the lens to focus on the point.

Making that happen faster and more accurately were welcome developments.

At some point, picking that point in the image was deemed too hard to
teach and too much for the typical photographer to know.

So, we came up with some algorithms to have  the camera pick that
focus point.  Some worked better than others, but none of them worked
(or work) all that well because every photographer is not trying to do
the same thing in every image.

So, we came up with custom functions that let the smarter and more
persistent guys pick between super-duper-autofocus, spot focus,
pick-your sensor focus and any number of names the marketing guys came
up with.

Now, instead of learning the simple act of aiming and focusing, we
have to learn all of that stuff.

After that, some genius figured that most of the time, if there is a
face in the picture, that will be the place to focus the image.

Cameras got smarter and learned how to detect and focus on faces.

Of course, we got one more mode to pick from.  And besides, it didn't
always actually detect the face, and sometimes we took photos without
faces in them.  Even worse, sometimes there was more than one face in
the photo and they were at different distances from the camera!

Engineers, being smart, said we can fix that.  Now we have face
detection that detects every face in the photo, picks one of the faces
for focus, highlights it in a different color so that we have the
option of picking one of the other faces, if only we can remember what
combination of buttons is used to pick a different face.

All of that automation and stuff to learn just so that we don't have
to learn how to focus.  Wow.

Take this example and apply it to histograms and jpg and raw as you
wish.  I'll step down from my soapbox now.

GS

George Sinos

gsi...@gmail.com
www.georgesphotos.net
plus.georgesinos.com



On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>
> On Jan 29, 2012, at 12:16 AM, steve harley wrote:
>
>> on 2012-01-28 21:57 Paul Stenquist wrote
>>> That's basically what today's best meters do. But they still can't gauge 
>>> reflectivity and color as well as the human eye can. The meter makes a call 
>>> and a good photographer makes the necessary adjustment. Most of the time 
>>> the meter will come close enough for all practical purposes. for those 
>>> times when it can't the photographer has to lend a hand. It wouldn't be 
>>> much fun if machines did all the work.
>>
>> i submit that most of us don't have "today's best meters"
>
> The K-5 comes somewhat close, but no it's not at the top of the heap. But 
> it's more than good enough when photographers use their brain as well as 
> their meters.
> Paul
>>
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Re: GESO Reconstruction

[Toine]

Thanks for the views and comments. nr3 on that page is my favorite.
The others are mainly on display for my colleagues who had to struggle
with P&S camera's to capture their future library. Grabbing a
construction project on ccd is not my regular cup of tea. A lot of
garbage everywhere and the light was to low to capture some action
from the workers.

Toine

On 26 January 2012 22:42, Toine  wrote:
> Last week I had the opportunity to visit a building project from the
> inside. It was almost pitch black and the K5 managed to squeeze the
> last light out of the steel and concrete.
>
> http://www.repiuk.nl/index.php/blog-mainmenu-97/209-reconstruction
>
> Toine

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Re: BBC Dramadoc with Pentax content

[Christine Aguila]

Finished watching!  Excellent!  Loved it!  Big thanks, Sir Cotty!  cheers, 
Christine



On Jan 29, 2012, at 3:59 AM, Cotty wrote:

> For US and all non-UK residents who want to see this drama-doc it's here:
> 
> 
> 
> 90 mins, no idea how long it will stay up!
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
> 
> 
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
> --  http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
> 
> 
> 
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Re: OT: Lucky me - I got a new job at the age of 62!

[Steven Desjardins]

Good work.  Hope it goes well.  Also, good luck on the lottery ;-)

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Bob Sullivan  wrote:
> Jens,
> Congratulations and good for you!
> The late 50's and early 60's are dangerous ages for employment.
> You frequently know too much and grow impatient with bull shit.
> Regards,  Bob S.
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Jens  wrote:
>> Hi List
>> I left my job as an urban planner a couple of years ago. I left because I 
>> didn't like my new boss - a VERY arrogant woman-architect. Nobody seemed to 
>> like her. She made life Hell for a lot our employees.
>> So, I,ve been working as a planner (dealing with building applicataions) for 
>> 2 years. I was supposed to stop working (early retirement) in june 2012. I 
>> am 62, so a new job was not really an issue - it's practically impossible in 
>> Denmark, these days. So, I was getting in gear for upgrading my small 
>> photography business to a full time day job.
>>
>> But guess what - I got a new job - urban planning (I graduated as an 
>> architect/urban planner back in 1978 and have been working as such for the 
>> last 33f years) in the municipallity of Egedal - a small community in the 
>> northern Copenhagen area. Lucky me!
>>
>> So, photography will remain a hobby/very small business of mine, at least 
>> until 2014.
>>
>> I recently bought a Pentax 67 and a 67II. And I'm lookiing forward to 
>> getting real nice high resolution scans of 65 Megapixel very soon :-)
>>
>> If I win the lottery, I'll get myself a Pentax 645D - or a nice Phase One w. 
>> 60 MP back.
>>
>>
>> BTW:
>> Mamiya and Leaf recently joined forces - I believe perhaps they are both 
>> owned by Danish Phase One. But these cameras and backs are unfortunately 
>> much too expensive for me.
>> Pentax 645D is a bit closer to my kind of budget :-)
>>
>> Regards
>> Jens
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.
>>
>> On Jan 29, 2012 10:45 "Daniel J. Matyola"  wrote:
>>
>> --
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>> follow the directions.
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Re: OT: Lucky me - I got a new job at the age of 62!

[Bruce Walker]

Congrats, Jens!

Have you considered a used Phase One? I understand the P25 is "affordable".


On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 5:21 AM, Jens  wrote:
> Hi List
> I left my job as an urban planner a couple of years ago. I left because I 
> didn't like my new boss - a VERY arrogant woman-architect. Nobody seemed to 
> like her. She made life Hell for a lot our employees.
> So, I,ve been working as a planner (dealing with building applicataions) for 
> 2 years. I was supposed to stop working (early retirement) in june 2012. I am 
> 62, so a new job was not really an issue - it's practically impossible in 
> Denmark, these days. So, I was getting in gear for upgrading my small 
> photography business to a full time day job.
>
> But guess what - I got a new job - urban planning (I graduated as an 
> architect/urban planner back in 1978 and have been working as such for the 
> last 33f years) in the municipallity of Egedal - a small community in the 
> northern Copenhagen area. Lucky me!
>
> So, photography will remain a hobby/very small business of mine, at least 
> until 2014.
>
> I recently bought a Pentax 67 and a 67II. And I'm lookiing forward to getting 
> real nice high resolution scans of 65 Megapixel very soon :-)
>
> If I win the lottery, I'll get myself a Pentax 645D - or a nice Phase One w. 
> 60 MP back.
>
>
> BTW:
> Mamiya and Leaf recently joined forces - I believe perhaps they are both 
> owned by Danish Phase One. But these cameras and backs are unfortunately much 
> too expensive for me.
> Pentax 645D is a bit closer to my kind of budget :-)
>
> Regards
> Jens
>
>
>
>
>
> Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.

-- 
-bmw

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Re: OT: Lucky me - I got a new job at the age of 62!

[Toine]

Congrats!, If your luck holds on, the lottery should be easy.


On 29 January 2012 11:21, Jens  wrote:
> Hi List
> I left my job as an urban planner a couple of years ago. I left because I 
> didn't like my new boss - a VERY arrogant woman-architect. Nobody seemed to 
> like her. She made life Hell for a lot our employees.
> So, I,ve been working as a planner (dealing with building applicataions) for 
> 2 years. I was supposed to stop working (early retirement) in june 2012. I am 
> 62, so a new job was not really an issue - it's practically impossible in 
> Denmark, these days. So, I was getting in gear for upgrading my small 
> photography business to a full time day job.
>
> But guess what - I got a new job - urban planning (I graduated as an 
> architect/urban planner back in 1978 and have been working as such for the 
> last 33f years) in the municipallity of Egedal - a small community in the 
> northern Copenhagen area. Lucky me!
>
> So, photography will remain a hobby/very small business of mine, at least 
> until 2014.
>
> I recently bought a Pentax 67 and a 67II. And I'm lookiing forward to getting 
> real nice high resolution scans of 65 Megapixel very soon :-)
>
> If I win the lottery, I'll get myself a Pentax 645D - or a nice Phase One w. 
> 60 MP back.
>
>
> BTW:
> Mamiya and Leaf recently joined forces - I believe perhaps they are both 
> owned by Danish Phase One. But these cameras and backs are unfortunately much 
> too expensive for me.
> Pentax 645D is a bit closer to my kind of budget :-)
>
> Regards
> Jens
>
>
>
>
>
> Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.
>
> On Jan 29, 2012 10:45 "Daniel J. Matyola"  wrote:
>
> --
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Re: free darkroom

[Rick Womer]

Good luck, Paul!
 
(I might be giving explosives some thought...)
 
Rick

http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: Paul Stenquist 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Cc: 
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 7:11 PM
Subject: free darkroom

I'm in the midst of resolving a mini disaster. The storm drains under my house 
are clogged, and I'm going to have to jackhammer a ditch on the perimeter of my 
basement floor. Or rather, four big guys with masks and earplugs are going to 
jackhammer a ditch, while a dozen guys with buckets cart away the concrete.

Anyway, the reason I'm mentioning this is that I have to disassemble my 
darkroom to make this happen. I'm not going to put it back together. While I 
may still develop some  film, I don't plan on making any optical prints. I've 
had my fun. Twice. It's free to the first list member who responds. BUT THERE'S 
A CATCH (pardon the shouting): You have to pick up the equipment at my house in 
Bloomfield HIlls, Michigan. It would cost more to ship than it's worth, and I 
don't have the time to deal with it in the throes of this dilemna. THERE'S A 
SECOND CATCH: You have to take it all, and you have to pick it up by next 
weekend. 

Here's what you get.

An Omegalite D cold light enlarger with lens mounts for medium format and 4 x 
5. One piece is needed to complete the 4 x 5 assembly. I had found a source but 
never ordered it. However, it's fully functional for medium format. This is the 
enlarger that uses circular fluorescent lamps. It works very well.

A Schneider Kreuznach Componon-S 100/5.6 enlarging lens, which is ideal for 6 x 
7 medium format.
A Schneider Kreuznach Componon-S 135/5.6 enlarging lens, which is ideal for 4 x 
5 large format.

An Omega B22 enlarger with Zone 6 cold light conversion set up for 35 mm. I've 
used it for 6 x 6 medium format as well.

An El-Nikkor 50/2.8 enlarging lens, which is perfect for 35mm

An Omega automatic timer

A safelight.

Some trays, including large ones for 16 x 20 prints.

Two paper holders, including a massive one for 16 x 20 prints.


If I don't hear from anyone by Monday, I'm going to see if any of the local 
schools want it.


Paul
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Test

[Jack Davis]

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Re: Test

[David J Brooks]

58%. Better try harder next time

Dave

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Jack Davis  wrote:
>
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Re: BBC Dramadoc with Pentax content

[Bob Sullivan]

Cotty, Thanks - I remember Jean Shrimpton! - maybe even those
photos... Regards,  Bob S.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:59 AM, Cotty  wrote:
> For US and all non-UK residents who want to see this drama-doc it's here:
>
> 
>
> 90 mins, no idea how long it will stay up!
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
>
>
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)  |     People, Places, Pastiche
> --      http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
>
>
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Re: PESO: Clouds over the Crater

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Thanks, Bob W, Paul, Jack, David, Bob S, Tim and all who looked at my image.

What I like most about it is how different it is from several images I
did at the same location in previous years, on sunny days, with bright
colors and high contrast.  Together, the help me illustrate and
remember the many moods of this magical place.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 6:06 AM, Bob W  wrote:
>> From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
>> Daniel J. Matyola
>>
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073312
>>
>
> that's terrific - a very volcano-like volcano.
>
> B
>
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PESO: Rainbow Eucalyptus

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Bark of a tree in Hosmer Grove, Haleakala National Park:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073313

Comments and criticisms are invited.

Dan Matyola
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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[Paul Stenquist]

On Jan 29, 2012, at 11:26 AM, George Sinos wrote:

> In general, I appreciate the developments and improvements that the
> camera designers have come up with the give us better tools and extend
> our creative reach.
> 
> At some point, it becomes problematic when they try to remove human
> judgement from the equation.
> 
> For instance, the developments in auto-focus.
> 
> At one point the human would pick the point in the image on which to
> focus, line up some little focusing aid in the viewfinder, the camera
> would then adjust the lens to focus on the point.
> 
> Making that happen faster and more accurately were welcome developments.
> 
> At some point, picking that point in the image was deemed too hard to
> teach and too much for the typical photographer to know.
> 
> So, we came up with some algorithms to have  the camera pick that
> focus point.  Some worked better than others, but none of them worked
> (or work) all that well because every photographer is not trying to do
> the same thing in every image.
> 
> So, we came up with custom functions that let the smarter and more
> persistent guys pick between super-duper-autofocus, spot focus,
> pick-your sensor focus and any number of names the marketing guys came
> up with.
> 
> Now, instead of learning the simple act of aiming and focusing, we
> have to learn all of that stuff.
> 
> After that, some genius figured that most of the time, if there is a
> face in the picture, that will be the place to focus the image.
> 
> Cameras got smarter and learned how to detect and focus on faces.
> 
> Of course, we got one more mode to pick from.  And besides, it didn't
> always actually detect the face, and sometimes we took photos without
> faces in them.  Even worse, sometimes there was more than one face in
> the photo and they were at different distances from the camera!
> 
> Engineers, being smart, said we can fix that.  Now we have face
> detection that detects every face in the photo, picks one of the faces
> for focus, highlights it in a different color so that we have the
> option of picking one of the other faces, if only we can remember what
> combination of buttons is used to pick a different face.
> 
> All of that automation and stuff to learn just so that we don't have
> to learn how to focus.  Wow.
> 
> Take this example and apply it to histograms and jpg and raw as you
> wish.  I'll step down from my soapbox now.
> 
> GS
> 
> George Sinos



I would find the trend toward more technology disturbing if there were no 
options. But since I can focus manually at will, or I can choose to use a 
single autofocus point -- with the plus of being able to choose the location of 
that pint -- the presence of other options doesn't bother me in the least. 
Camera makers, for the most part, aren't brain dead. They're not going to take 
away the options that many of us require. More technology is fine, since it 
doesn't get in my way.

Paul


> 
> gsi...@gmail.com
> www.georgesphotos.net
> plus.georgesinos.com
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Paul Stenquist  
> wrote:
>> 
>> On Jan 29, 2012, at 12:16 AM, steve harley wrote:
>> 
>>> on 2012-01-28 21:57 Paul Stenquist wrote
 That's basically what today's best meters do. But they still can't gauge 
 reflectivity and color as well as the human eye can. The meter makes a 
 call and a good photographer makes the necessary adjustment. Most of the 
 time the meter will come close enough for all practical purposes. for 
 those times when it can't the photographer has to lend a hand. It wouldn't 
 be much fun if machines did all the work.
>>> 
>>> i submit that most of us don't have "today's best meters"
>> 
>> The K-5 comes somewhat close, but no it's not at the top of the heap. But 
>> it's more than good enough when photographers use their brain as well as 
>> their meters.
>> Paul
>>> 
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Re: Test

[Jack Davis]

Hey, I'll let that stand as my new record! ;)

Thanks, Dave.

Jack


- Original Message -
From: David J Brooks 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Test

58%. Better try harder next time

Dave

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Jack Davis  wrote:
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Re: PESO: Rainbow Eucalyptus

[Jack Davis]

I realize these color tones may have received some assistance from a 
"saturation" slider, it's still an impressive spectrum of colors.
Nice!

Is that left side darker area a second tree? 

Jack 


- Original Message -
From: Daniel J. Matyola 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 9:41 AM
Subject: PESO: Rainbow Eucalyptus

Bark of a tree in Hosmer Grove, Haleakala National Park:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073313

Comments and criticisms are invited.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

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Re: PESO: Rainbow Eucalyptus

[Daniel J. Matyola]

 Thanks, Jack.

I did have boost the contrast and saturation a bit to get the image to
show what my eye saw, as this was an early morning shot on a cloudy
day.  The colors are there in nature.

The darker area on the left is the shaggy outer bark of the same tree,
where it has not yet peeled off to reveal the smooth, shiny and
colorful inner bark.  I left it in the frame for contrast as well as
to show both kinds of bark on the same tree.

Thanks for looking and thanks for your kind comments.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Jack Davis  wrote:
> I realize these color tones may have received some assistance from a 
> "saturation" slider, it's still an impressive spectrum of colors.
> Nice!
>
> Is that left side darker area a second tree?
>
> Jack
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Daniel J. Matyola 
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Cc:
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 9:41 AM
> Subject: PESO: Rainbow Eucalyptus
>
> Bark of a tree in Hosmer Grove, Haleakala National Park:
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073313
>
> Comments and criticisms are invited.
>
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>
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Re: PESO: Rainbow Eucalyptus

[Ann Sanfedele]

That's just lovely

ann

On 1/29/2012 12:41, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

Bark of a tree in Hosmer Grove, Haleakala National Park:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073313

Comments and criticisms are invited.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



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Re: PESO: Rainbow Eucalyptus

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Thanks, Ann!
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:
> That's just lovely
>
> ann
>
>
> On 1/29/2012 12:41, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:
>>
>> Bark of a tree in Hosmer Grove, Haleakala National Park:
>>
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073313
>>
>> Comments and criticisms are invited.
>>
>> Dan Matyola
>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>>
>
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Re: Peso, pensive

[Daniel J. Matyola]

I usually HATE cat images, but that is a very interesting and
compelling portrait.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 8:32 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15069473
>
> Norman watching the snow.
>
> k-5 D FA 50 f2.8 small crop amount in LR3
>
> Dave
>
> --
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> York Region, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Paw 5 Up a tree with out a ......

[Daniel J. Matyola]

That is a very nice image of a difficult subject.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 8:18 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Bob Sullivan  wrote:
>> Dave,
>> Nice environmental portrait.  Wish he was a bit brighter, but that
>> might blow-out the snow.
>> Regards,  Bob S.
>
> I did have to use the fill slider in LR. It was a pretty dull day, but
> should have tried some fill flash, but it all happened to quick.
>
> Dave
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:42 PM, David J Brooks  wrote:
>>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15069475
>>>
>>> Taken this afternoon out back. We have had all day heavy wet snow, its
>>> -1 C here, and i just wondered around the yard. This guy is one of the
>>> ones that will wait by the side door patiently for peanuts.
>>>
>>> K-5 D FA 50 f2.8 iso 80o f4.5 1/1000
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> --
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>>> www.caughtinmotion.com
>>> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
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>>>
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PESO: Spring 2012 Practice

[Jack Davis]

This reminded me of Charlie Brown. :)

Jack


http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=627


K5, DA 55~300(120mm), f/8, 1/2000, ISO 800 

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Re: PESO 2012 - 014 - GDG

[Igor Roshchin]

I've been watching this series for a while.
Some of them don't excite me separately, but I can see that they
would come together well if presented as a series.

What inspired me to respond today is the association with the old song by
Slim Gaillard that's been stuck in my mind on and off for the last year.
In my case it is a theme (yet not exploited, but planned to be used
in Fall-2012) for the class "The Art of Scientific Communication",
that I've developed recently, have taught in a "pilot" mode in the last
two semesters.

I thought that this song might inspire your too for something related to
the series. (A video clip based on the photos with this music as a
background?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teaxWYRH9A4


There is an interesting jam in this song that is lost for most
listeners:
Dah-dit-dah-dit dah-dah-dit-dah is Morse Code for CQ - "calling all stations"

Cheers,

Igor



On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi 
wrote:
> Still working on the Communicating series it seems ...
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/665309/lightbox/
> or
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/665309/
>
> Thanks for looking! Comments always appreciated.
>
> Godfrey
> -
> Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/
>

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Re: PESO: Spring 2012 Practice

[Daniel J. Matyola]

LOL!

You caught nice patterns in the branches, and that one splash of
colors provides a strong focal point.  It works well for me.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Jack Davis  wrote:
> This reminded me of Charlie Brown. :)
>
> Jack
>
>
> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=627
>
>
> K5, DA 55~300(120mm), f/8, 1/2000, ISO 800
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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> I would find the trend toward more technology disturbing if there were no 
> options. But since I can focus manually at will, or I can choose to use a 
> single autofocus point -- with the plus of being able to choose the location 
> of that pint -- the presence of other options doesn't bother me in the least. 
> Camera makers, for the most part, aren't brain dead. They're not going to 
> take away the options that many of us require. More technology is fine, since 
> it doesn't get in my way.

So far, I have not yet found a single modern, convenience laden DSLR
with which I focus and set exposure manually as easily, fluidly,
swiftly and surely as I could with my Nikon FM2n.
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[steve harley]

on 2012-01-29 05:29 Paul Stenquist wrote


On Jan 29, 2012, at 12:16 AM, steve harley wrote:


on 2012-01-28 21:57 Paul Stenquist wrote

That's basically what today's best meters do. But they still can't gauge 
reflectivity and color as well as the human eye can. The meter makes a call and 
a good photographer makes the necessary adjustment. Most of the time the meter 
will come close enough for all practical purposes. for those times when it 
can't the photographer has to lend a hand. It wouldn't be much fun if machines 
did all the work.


i submit that most of us don't have "today's best meters"


The K-5 comes somewhat close, but no it's not at the top of the heap. But it's 
more than good enough when photographers use their brain as well as their 
meters.


that may be, but i suspect that 1) most of us don't have K-5s, and 2) even much 
worse metering systems are "good enough" — we can learn to compensate for 
anything; some of us whose professions are to designs ways to exploit 
technology, however, will instinctively imagine extending tools as far as is 
possible and efficient


so as i gravitate toward a more manual process, i imagine the kind of tool i 
want to work with; the histogram (preferably representing RAW exposure, and 
live) simply offers a more direct means to an end; a camera's meter just gives 
one data point; we have to guess how it has evaluated the scene to get the what 
histogram gives us directly (or spot meter several points); i think the 
histogram is a better tool for using our brain in conjunction with our meters, 
and is better suited to intelligent but spontaneous photography


i could even appreciate an interface that applies a little more calculus to 
image data to indicate where in the image, and at what levels, the angle of the 
histogram's curve is steepest and shallowest, which is part of what i sort out 
(less effectively) with my brain now


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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[Larry Colen]

Steve,

I get the feeling that you are the only one that actually understands what I'm 
saying.

On Jan 29, 2012, at 11:20 AM, steve harley wrote:

> on 2012-01-29 05:29 Paul Stenquist wrote
>> 
>> On Jan 29, 2012, at 12:16 AM, steve harley wrote:
>> 
>>> on 2012-01-28 21:57 Paul Stenquist wrote
 That's basically what today's best meters do. But they still can't gauge 
 reflectivity and color as well as the human eye can. The meter makes a 
 call and a good photographer makes the necessary adjustment. Most of the 
 time the meter will come close enough for all practical purposes. for 
 those times when it can't the photographer has to lend a hand. It wouldn't 
 be much fun if machines did all the work.
>>> 
>>> i submit that most of us don't have "today's best meters"
>> 
>> The K-5 comes somewhat close, but no it's not at the top of the heap. But 
>> it's more than good enough when photographers use their brain as well as 
>> their meters.
> 
> that may be, but i suspect that 1) most of us don't have K-5s, and 2) even 
> much worse metering systems are "good enough" — we can learn to compensate 
> for anything; some of us whose professions are to designs ways to exploit 
> technology, however, will instinctively imagine extending tools as far as is 
> possible and efficient

This is exactly what I'm doing.  My career is to write embedded systems 
software.  Designing and writing the software for setting the exposure of a 
camera would be a job that my 30 years of professional experience is almost 
ideally suited for.  I recognize the limitations of the automatic systems, know 
to check the exposure against the aids (histogram and blinkies).  What is 
frustrating is that those tools could give me exactly what I need, but they 
don't.  They tell me if the JPEG, which I don't use, would be properly exposed, 
I want to know what is happening on the sensor.  
Rather than red blinkies for over exposed and blue for underexposed portions of 
the jpeg, which will change if you change the color balance,  how about red 
blinkies if you are clipping the data on the sensor, and yellow blinkies if you 
are close enough to the limit of resolution that you'll get posterization (or 
whatever you call it when you get those annoying lines in the sky).

> 
> so as i gravitate toward a more manual process, i imagine the kind of tool i 
> want to work with; the histogram (preferably representing RAW exposure, and 
> live) simply offers a more direct means to an end; a camera's meter just 
> gives one data point; we have to guess how it has evaluated the scene to get 
> the what histogram gives us directly (or spot meter several points); i think 
> the histogram is a better tool for using our brain in conjunction with our 
> meters, and is better suited to intelligent but spontaneous photography

Exactly.  There are times when metering off the sensor would slow things down 
too much, use too much power, generate too much heat etc. But there are also 
times when it is the perfect tool.

> 
> i could even appreciate an interface that applies a little more calculus to 
> image data to indicate where in the image, and at what levels, the angle of 
> the histogram's curve is steepest and shallowest, which is part of what i 
> sort out (less effectively) with my brain now


I also wish that they'd tell me exactly what each of these modes does, rather 
than when I'm supposed to use them, and let me guess what the camera is doing.  
I understand that most people are happy with a magic box that does their 
thinking for them, so that they don't have to think about anything but 
composition, but at least tell those of us that want to know so that we can 
decide when to let the camera think for us, and when we should think for 
ourselves.  Instead, I'm left with having to always check the histogram and 
blinkies, which *almost* tell me what I need to know.

It's interesting how many people seem to despise the viewfinder that doesn't 
show the whole image, but don't seem to mind the histogram that doesn't show 
all of the information.

I also agree with Godfrey on ease of manual use.  Part of the issue with 
digital exposure is that there is so much more information potentially 
available that a simple match needle would through away too much useful 
information. Another issue is that digital isn't as tolerant of missed 
exposures as film, though at ISO 100 the K-5 may be far more tolerant of 
underexposure than most film.  When I got my K-5 I thought that I would not 
need to get a katzeye screen for it.  The stock screen seems a lot better than 
previous cameras, and the autofocus is a lot better.  However, I still find 
myself missing focus in so many cases where if I had a good manual focus 
screen, it would be trivial to nail focus perfectly.

Again, it's a case of optimizing the system for the automatic functions, that 
don't always work as well as manual.


> 
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RE: Peso, pensive

[Jeffery Johnson]

Nice capture and now what would be fun is to see his reaction to being in
the snow.


Photo Captures by Jeffery
http://www.photocapturesbyjeffery.com

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
David J Brooks
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:33 AM
To: Pentax Discuss; Petch Dianne; Barbara Brooks; Harry Bolton
Subject: Peso, pensive

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15069473

Norman watching the snow.

k-5 D FA 50 f2.8 small crop amount in LR3

Dave

-- 
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4774 - Release Date: 01/29/12


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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

> I also agree with Godfrey on ease of manual use.

I'm glad we agree on something. ;-)

> Part of the issue with digital exposure is that there is so much more 
> information potentially available that a simple match needle would through 
> away too much useful information.

I disagree. Until sensors data can be addressed to manipulate the
capture data by photosite address, you will always have one exposure
addressing all the photosites the same way. Whether you get there with
some ultra-smart evaluative metering system, or you use your brain as
the computational system and a meter as the dumb data input, the end
result is always an ISO @ aperture @ exposure time.

Knowing the characteristic curve of a sensor and how digital image
data exposure operates, it's very easy to 'place' the exposure where
you want it with a spot meter and a moment's thought: with the
brightest area of significant detail 5% below the saturation limit.
That's in practical terms the only thing you can do ... anything else
you do is a matter of processing the raw data (setting the appropriate
blackpoint, colorspace, and rendering curve to suit the dynamics of
the scene).

Writing computational automation to understand the characteristic
curve of the sensor @ a specific ISO setting, analyzing the scene to
determine what is or isn't important, and setting that single exposure
point consistently ... Well, it's not that it can't be done, but it's
way more than most current in-camera computational processing is
capable of.

I do this in my head faster than I can think about it. My E-5 had
Spot-Hi and Spot-Lo modes for metering complex scenes that simplify
manual metering (by comparison to just Spot in most other cameras,
which is based on 18% reflectance reference).

With almost all cameras, I set my metering to centerweighted
averaging, evaluate the pattern, and use aperture priority AE or
manual mode. With the APAE mode, I look at the scene, see the dynamics
of the hot and dark areas, and tweak the EV comp to suit. With Manual,
I set it to the meter's null point then tweak it up or down the same
way, OR I just know what the scene type requires from past experience
and set it. My brain does this without me consciously thinking about
it, and FAR more consistently than any exposure automation I've ever
seen.

> Another issue is that digital isn't as tolerant of missed exposures as film, 
> though at ISO 100 the K-5 may be far more tolerant of underexposure than most 
> film.

I don't find this to be true in general. Digital capture is  more
sensitive to the saturation point than film because it's a hard clip
rather than a slow roll off, but it generally has more dynamic range
and, as long as you're under the clip point, is much much much more
manipulable. What's important to keep aware of is that as ISO
increases, DR decreases so if you're looking at scenes that require
elevated ISOs for hand-holdability or subject movement, you have to
understand that the DR will be decreased and pick your important
detail areas more carefully. I don't know of any automation system
that can do this pre-exposure ... they simply don't have enough data
to work with like your eye and mind does.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> Steve,
>
> I get the feeling that you are the only one that actually understands what 
> I'm saying.
>
> On Jan 29, 2012, at 11:20 AM, steve harley wrote:
>
>> on 2012-01-29 05:29 Paul Stenquist wrote
>>>
>>> On Jan 29, 2012, at 12:16 AM, steve harley wrote:
>>>
 on 2012-01-28 21:57 Paul Stenquist wrote
> That's basically what today's best meters do. But they still can't gauge 
> reflectivity and color as well as the human eye can. The meter makes a 
> call and a good photographer makes the necessary adjustment. Most of the 
> time the meter will come close enough for all practical purposes. for 
> those times when it can't the photographer has to lend a hand. It 
> wouldn't be much fun if machines did all the work.

 i submit that most of us don't have "today's best meters"
>>>
>>> The K-5 comes somewhat close, but no it's not at the top of the heap. But 
>>> it's more than good enough when photographers use their brain as well as 
>>> their meters.
>>
>> that may be, but i suspect that 1) most of us don't have K-5s, and 2) even 
>> much worse metering systems are "good enough" — we can learn to compensate 
>> for anything; some of us whose professions are to designs ways to exploit 
>> technology, however, will instinctively imagine extending tools as far as is 
>> possible and efficient
>
> This is exactly what I'm doing.  My career is to write embedded systems 
> software.  Designing and writing the software for setting the exposure of a 
> camera would be a job that my 30 years of professional experience is almost 
> ideally suited for.  I recognize the limitations of the automatic systems, 
> know to check the exposure against the aids (histogram and blinkies).  What 
> 

Re: PESO: Rainbow Eucalyptus

[Brian Walters]

Quoting "Daniel J. Matyola" :


Bark of a tree in Hosmer Grove, Haleakala National Park:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073313

Comments and criticisms are invited.



Very nice. One of only two eucalypts not native to Australia.

More's the pity :-(>




--
Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/


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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[Larry Colen]

On Jan 29, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

>> I also agree with Godfrey on ease of manual use.
> 
> I'm glad we agree on something. ;-)

Just because I call you rude names doesn't mean that I disagree with you, or 
even that I dislike you.

> 
>> Part of the issue with digital exposure is that there is so much more 
>> information potentially available that a simple match needle would through 
>> away too much useful information.
> 
> I disagree. Until sensors data can be addressed to manipulate the
> capture data by photosite address, you will always have one exposure
> addressing all the photosites the same way. Whether you get there with
> some ultra-smart evaluative metering system, or you use your brain as
> the computational system and a meter as the dumb data input, the end
> result is always an ISO @ aperture @ exposure time.

Yes, a scalar meter for a scalar setting is about all you can do.  But there is 
a lot more information available from a histogram than from a match needle, and 
even more if the camera takes a test shot and reads the value of every sensor 
site.

There are many times when a match needle, or an AE system that follows the 
match needle is good enough, or the best available.

As to manipulating capture data by photosite address, there are times I'd 
settle for being able to set the ISO of each color channel separately.
I often have to underexpose two of the channels by a couple of stops to keep 
from blowing out the third channel.

> 
> Knowing the characteristic curve of a sensor and how digital image
> data exposure operates, it's very easy to 'place' the exposure where
> you want it with a spot meter and a moment's thought: with the
> brightest area of significant detail 5% below the saturation limit.

Very true.  How do I find 5% below the saturation limit of my sensor when the 
histogram only tells me the values on the JPEG, not on the sensor?  I'll note 
that your M9 gives the sensor values, not the jpeg values.

> Writing computational automation to understand the characteristic
> curve of the sensor @ a specific ISO setting, analyzing the scene to
> determine what is or isn't important, and setting that single exposure
> point consistently ... Well, it's not that it can't be done, but it's
> way more than most current in-camera computational processing is
> capable of.

In the time available for action shots.  But what if you had a mode where you 
could press the "analyze" button, and let it churn away for a few seconds?  How 
long would it take to read 16M values into a buffer, and note the maximum and 
minimum values?

> 
> I do this in my head faster than I can think about it. My E-5 had
> Spot-Hi and Spot-Lo modes for metering complex scenes that simplify
> manual metering (by comparison to just Spot in most other cameras,
> which is based on 18% reflectance reference).

I suspect I do a lot of this intuitively myself.  

> 
> With almost all cameras, I set my metering to centerweighted
> averaging, evaluate the pattern, and use aperture priority AE or
> manual mode. With the APAE mode, I look at the scene, see the dynamics
> of the hot and dark areas, and tweak the EV comp to suit. With Manual,
> I set it to the meter's null point then tweak it up or down the same
> way, OR I just know what the scene type requires from past experience
> and set it. My brain does this without me consciously thinking about
> it, and FAR more consistently than any exposure automation I've ever
> seen.

Do you check your results with the histogram, or just decide that you're good 
to go?

> 
>> Another issue is that digital isn't as tolerant of missed exposures as film, 
>> though at ISO 100 the K-5 may be far more tolerant of underexposure than 
>> most film.
> 
> I don't find this to be true in general. Digital capture is  more
> sensitive to the saturation point than film because it's a hard clip
> rather than a slow roll off, but it generally has more dynamic range
> and, as long as you're under the clip point, is much much much more
> manipulable. What's important to keep aware of is that as ISO
> increases, DR decreases so if you're looking at scenes that require
> elevated ISOs for hand-holdability or subject movement, you have to
> understand that the DR will be decreased and pick your important
> detail areas more carefully.

All of this is true.

> I don't know of any automation system
> that can do this pre-exposure ... they simply don't have enough data
> to work with like your eye and mind does.

Exactly, that is why I want a mode that will take a test shot, or test shots, 
analyze the data post exposure and report on the ideal exposure based on the 
scene, and your tolerance for blown out highlights.  Ideally, it could do the 
test shots, and even set optimal values for an HDR range for scenes that may 
have something like a neon sign on a dark street where one exposure is ideal 
for the sign, it skips four stops of exposure where the sign is over exposed 
and

Re: PESO: Rainbow Eucalyptus

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Thanks, Brian.
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 4:35 PM, Brian Walters  wrote:
> Quoting "Daniel J. Matyola" :
>
>> Bark of a tree in Hosmer Grove, Haleakala National Park:
>>
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073313
>>
>> Comments and criticisms are invited.
>
>
>
> Very nice. One of only two eucalypts not native to Australia.
>
> More's the pity :-(>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers
>
> Brian
>
> ++
> Brian Walters
> Western Sydney Australia
> http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/
>
>
>
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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[steve harley]

on 2012-01-29 14:13 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

Knowing the characteristic curve of a sensor and how digital image
data exposure operates, it's very easy to 'place' the exposure where
you want it with a spot meter and a moment's thought: with the
brightest area of significant detail 5% below the saturation limit.


okay, if the spot meter is cued to 15% gray, that means i'd meter as above, 
then adjust exposure plus whatever the fractional number of stops between 15% 
gray and 5% below saturation might be on my camera; i suppose i could test that 
and memorize the adjustment for key ISO values (as the headroom varies); i 
could preset that bias and be fairly efficient when highlight clipping is my 
main concern


but often i want to choose how much highlight to blow based on how much of my 
shadows i want keep from turning to mud; and sometimes i'm willing to blow one 
channel if i can count on keeping some contrast in the other two ... that's 
when the histogram helps because the best exposure is often not absolute, it's 
a creative compromise



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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[Paul Stenquist]

On Jan 29, 2012, at 4:13 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

>> I also agree with Godfrey on ease of manual use.
> 
> I'm glad we agree on something. ;-)
> 
>> Part of the issue with digital exposure is that there is so much more 
>> information potentially available that a simple match needle would through 
>> away too much useful information.
> 
> I disagree. Until sensors data can be addressed to manipulate the
> capture data by photosite address, you will always have one exposure
> addressing all the photosites the same way. Whether you get there with
> some ultra-smart evaluative metering system, or you use your brain as
> the computational system and a meter as the dumb data input, the end
> result is always an ISO @ aperture @ exposure time.

Exactly. This doesn't have to be complicated.
> 
> Knowing the characteristic curve of a sensor and how digital image
> data exposure operates, it's very easy to 'place' the exposure where
> you want it with a spot meter and a moment's thought: with the
> brightest area of significant detail 5% below the saturation limit.
> That's in practical terms the only thing you can do ... anything else
> you do is a matter of processing the raw data (setting the appropriate
> blackpoint, colorspace, and rendering curve to suit the dynamics of
> the scene).
> 
> Writing computational automation to understand the characteristic
> curve of the sensor @ a specific ISO setting, analyzing the scene to
> determine what is or isn't important, and setting that single exposure
> point consistently ... Well, it's not that it can't be done, but it's
> way more than most current in-camera computational processing is
> capable of.
> 
> I do this in my head faster than I can think about it. My E-5 had
> Spot-Hi and Spot-Lo modes for metering complex scenes that simplify
> manual metering (by comparison to just Spot in most other cameras,
> which is based on 18% reflectance reference).
> 
> With almost all cameras, I set my metering to centerweighted
> averaging, evaluate the pattern, and use aperture priority AE or
> manual mode. With the APAE mode, I look at the scene, see the dynamics
> of the hot and dark areas, and tweak the EV comp to suit. With Manual,
> I set it to the meter's null point then tweak it up or down the same
> way, OR I just know what the scene type requires from past experience
> and set it. My brain does this without me consciously thinking about
> it, and FAR more consistently than any exposure automation I've ever
> seen.
> 
Exposure compensation is the digital photographer's best friend. It's a great 
tool.

>> Another issue is that digital isn't as tolerant of missed exposures as film, 
>> though at ISO 100 the K-5 may be far more tolerant of underexposure than 
>> most film.
> 
> I don't find this to be true in general. Digital capture is  more
> sensitive to the saturation point than film because it's a hard clip
> rather than a slow roll off, but it generally has more dynamic range
> and, as long as you're under the clip point, is much much much more
> manipulable.

That's the beauty of it, and I think all of us who worked with film for so many 
years can appreciate that. The RAW converter is a hell of a lot more flexible 
than the developing tank and the enlarger.

Paul
> What's important to keep aware of is that as ISO
> increases, DR decreases so if you're looking at scenes that require
> elevated ISOs for hand-holdability or subject movement, you have to
> understand that the DR will be decreased and pick your important
> detail areas more carefully. I don't know of any automation system
> that can do this pre-exposure ... they simply don't have enough data
> to work with like your eye and mind does.
> 
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>> Steve,
>> 
>> I get the feeling that you are the only one that actually understands what 
>> I'm saying.
>> 
>> On Jan 29, 2012, at 11:20 AM, steve harley wrote:
>> 
>>> on 2012-01-29 05:29 Paul Stenquist wrote
 
 On Jan 29, 2012, at 12:16 AM, steve harley wrote:
 
> on 2012-01-28 21:57 Paul Stenquist wrote
>> That's basically what today's best meters do. But they still can't gauge 
>> reflectivity and color as well as the human eye can. The meter makes a 
>> call and a good photographer makes the necessary adjustment. Most of the 
>> time the meter will come close enough for all practical purposes. for 
>> those times when it can't the photographer has to lend a hand. It 
>> wouldn't be much fun if machines did all the work.
> 
> i submit that most of us don't have "today's best meters"
 
 The K-5 comes somewhat close, but no it's not at the top of the heap. But 
 it's more than good enough when photographers use their brain as well as 
 their meters.
>>> 
>>> that may be, but i suspect that 1) most of us don't have K-5s, and 2) even 
>>> much worse metering systems are "good enough" — we can learn to compensate 
>>> for anything; some of

Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[steve harley]

on 2012-01-29 13:33 Larry Colen wrote

My career is to write embedded systems software.


as a mere generalist programmer and designer of systems, my frustration with 
the untapped potential of modern camera interfaces is probably a notch or two 
below yours; whilst we are accused of measurebation, i think it's really our 
imaginations that are getting us in trouble here



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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[Paul Stenquist]

On Jan 29, 2012, at 4:53 PM, steve harley wrote:

> on 2012-01-29 14:13 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote
>> Knowing the characteristic curve of a sensor and how digital image
>> data exposure operates, it's very easy to 'place' the exposure where
>> you want it with a spot meter and a moment's thought: with the
>> brightest area of significant detail 5% below the saturation limit.
> 
> okay, if the spot meter is cued to 15% gray, that means i'd meter as above, 
> then adjust exposure plus whatever the fractional number of stops between 15% 
> gray and 5% below saturation might be on my camera; i suppose i could test 
> that and memorize the adjustment for key ISO values (as the headroom varies); 
> i could preset that bias and be fairly efficient when highlight clipping is 
> my main concern.

You can test for the difference between gray and 5% below clipped highlights. 
You'll find it's about two stops. But you can tell by looking at a jpeg derived 
histo as well. If the highlights are clipped just a wee bit, you're golden.
> 
> but often i want to choose how much highlight to blow based on how much of my 
> shadows i want keep from turning to mud; and sometimes i'm willing to blow 
> one channel if i can count on keeping some contrast in the other two ... 
> that's when the histogram helps because the best exposure is often not 
> absolute, it's a creative compromise
> 
Exactly. And the histogram on my K-5 works well for that. While the histo may 
be based on a jpeg, the jpeg is merely the camera's conversion of the RAW. It's 
in a smaller color space than I work with and it may clip highlights that are 
useable in RAW conversion, but with some experience it's easy to predict where 
those lie.
Paul
> 
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PESO 3:13 PM and Snowing

[Paul Stenquist]

Shot in the snow for an hour or more today. Really soaked the K-5 and DA* 
50-135. No problems. I added this one to my "It Happens on Woodward" set. 

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15077373

Paul
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PESO 2012 - 015 - GDG

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Wandering a bit in San Francisco yesterday, passing the Contemporary Jewish 
Museum, this scene caught my eye and I couldn't resist making a photograph.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/6785078827/lightbox/
or
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/6785078827/

Thanks for looking, comments always appreciated. 

enjoy,
Godfrey
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flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/

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Downhill the Hard Way

[Paul Stenquist]

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15077419&size=lg

K-5 and DA* 50-135, soaking wet

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Re: PESO 2012 - 015 - GDG

[Paul Stenquist]

Very nice. The scale and composition make it special.
Paul
On Jan 29, 2012, at 5:19 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

> Wandering a bit in San Francisco yesterday, passing the Contemporary Jewish 
> Museum, this scene caught my eye and I couldn't resist making a photograph.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/6785078827/lightbox/
> or
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/6785078827/
> 
> Thanks for looking, comments always appreciated. 
> 
> enjoy,
> Godfrey
> -
> flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/
> 
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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>
> On Jan 29, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
>>> I also agree with Godfrey on ease of manual use.
>> I'm glad we agree on something. ;-)
> Just because I call you rude names doesn't mean that I disagree with you, or 
> even that I dislike you.

LOL! Smooch! ;-)

> Very true.  How do I find 5% below the saturation limit of my sensor when the 
> histogram only tells me the values on the JPEG, not on the sensor?  I'll note 
> that your M9 gives the sensor values, not the jpeg values.

The M9 histogram and data processing is actually very sophisticated.
When you go to info mode on a zoomed in section of a photo, it allows
you to examine just that section in the histogram. Subtle, simple, yet
very sophisticated.

I don't know whether it is working on the raw or the JPEG data yet,
haven't had enough time to learn all that. But it's metering,
fundamentally simple as it is (APAE or manual only, strongly center
weighted) simply delivers the right results for me in nearly all cases
so I haven't even bothered looking at the histogram all that much yet.
The exposure is right on the money when I download it and open up the
files in Lightroom.

> In the time available for action shots.  But what if you had a mode where you 
> could press the "analyze" button, and let it churn away for a few seconds?  
> How long would it take to read 16M values into a buffer, and note the maximum 
> and minimum values?

Sure. How many dozen people would find this of value, and are the
hundreds of thousands of dollars in development time and testing worth
the investment?

> Do you check your results with the histogram, or just decide that you're good 
> to go?

When the lighting is really wretched or the scene very difficult, I
do. Or I just bracket and don't worry about it, work with what worked
well when it's time to render. I don't expect every shot to work out
perfectly ... If 10% of what I shoot is worth doing finish work on,
I'm good with that.

>> I don't know of any automation system
>> that can do this pre-exposure ... they simply don't have enough data
>> to work with like your eye and mind does.
>
> Exactly, that is why I want a mode that will take a test shot, or test shots, 
> analyze the data post exposure and report on the ideal exposure based on the 
> scene, and your tolerance for blown out highlights.  Ideally, it could do the 
> test shots, and even set optimal values for an HDR range for scenes that may 
> have something like a neon sign on a dark street where one exposure is ideal 
> for the sign, it skips four stops of exposure where the sign is over exposed 
> and the street is underexposed, and another exposure for the street.

You'd have loved an Olympus OM-4Ti. Multispot metering system built
into the camera. I almost bought one a few months ago purely for the
nostalgia of it. :-)

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[Kenneth Waller]

>Just because I call you rude names doesn't mean that I disagree with you, or 
>even that I dislike you.


MARK !

-Original Message-
>From: Larry Colen 



>Subject: Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?
>
>
>On Jan 29, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
>>> I also agree with Godfrey on ease of manual use.
>> 
>> I'm glad we agree on something. ;-)
>
>Just because I call you rude names doesn't mean that I disagree with you, or 
>even that I dislike you.
>
>> 
>>> Part of the issue with digital exposure is that there is so much more 
>>> information potentially available that a simple match needle would through 
>>> away too much useful information.
>> 
>> I disagree. Until sensors data can be addressed to manipulate the
>> capture data by photosite address, you will always have one exposure
>> addressing all the photosites the same way. Whether you get there with
>> some ultra-smart evaluative metering system, or you use your brain as
>> the computational system and a meter as the dumb data input, the end
>> result is always an ISO @ aperture @ exposure time.
>
>Yes, a scalar meter for a scalar setting is about all you can do.  But there 
>is a lot more information available from a histogram than from a match needle, 
>and even more if the camera takes a test shot and reads the value of every 
>sensor site.
>
>There are many times when a match needle, or an AE system that follows the 
>match needle is good enough, or the best available.
>
>As to manipulating capture data by photosite address, there are times I'd 
>settle for being able to set the ISO of each color channel separately.
>I often have to underexpose two of the channels by a couple of stops to keep 
>from blowing out the third channel.
>
>> 
>> Knowing the characteristic curve of a sensor and how digital image
>> data exposure operates, it's very easy to 'place' the exposure where
>> you want it with a spot meter and a moment's thought: with the
>> brightest area of significant detail 5% below the saturation limit.
>
>Very true.  How do I find 5% below the saturation limit of my sensor when the 
>histogram only tells me the values on the JPEG, not on the sensor?  I'll note 
>that your M9 gives the sensor values, not the jpeg values.
>
>> Writing computational automation to understand the characteristic
>> curve of the sensor @ a specific ISO setting, analyzing the scene to
>> determine what is or isn't important, and setting that single exposure
>> point consistently ... Well, it's not that it can't be done, but it's
>> way more than most current in-camera computational processing is
>> capable of.
>
>In the time available for action shots.  But what if you had a mode where you 
>could press the "analyze" button, and let it churn away for a few seconds?  
>How long would it take to read 16M values into a buffer, and note the maximum 
>and minimum values?
>
>> 
>> I do this in my head faster than I can think about it. My E-5 had
>> Spot-Hi and Spot-Lo modes for metering complex scenes that simplify
>> manual metering (by comparison to just Spot in most other cameras,
>> which is based on 18% reflectance reference).
>
>I suspect I do a lot of this intuitively myself.  
>
>> 
>> With almost all cameras, I set my metering to centerweighted
>> averaging, evaluate the pattern, and use aperture priority AE or
>> manual mode. With the APAE mode, I look at the scene, see the dynamics
>> of the hot and dark areas, and tweak the EV comp to suit. With Manual,
>> I set it to the meter's null point then tweak it up or down the same
>> way, OR I just know what the scene type requires from past experience
>> and set it. My brain does this without me consciously thinking about
>> it, and FAR more consistently than any exposure automation I've ever
>> seen.
>
>Do you check your results with the histogram, or just decide that you're good 
>to go?
>
>> 
>>> Another issue is that digital isn't as tolerant of missed exposures as 
>>> film, though at ISO 100 the K-5 may be far more tolerant of underexposure 
>>> than most film.
>> 
>> I don't find this to be true in general. Digital capture is  more
>> sensitive to the saturation point than film because it's a hard clip
>> rather than a slow roll off, but it generally has more dynamic range
>> and, as long as you're under the clip point, is much much much more
>> manipulable. What's important to keep aware of is that as ISO
>> increases, DR decreases so if you're looking at scenes that require
>> elevated ISOs for hand-holdability or subject movement, you have to
>> understand that the DR will be decreased and pick your important
>> detail areas more carefully.
>
>All of this is true.
>
>> I don't know of any automation system
>> that can do this pre-exposure ... they simply don't have enough data
>> to work with like your eye and mind does.
>
>Exactly, that is why I want a mode that will take a test shot, or test shots, 
>analyze the data post exposure and report on the ideal exposure ba

Re: OT: Lucky me - I got a new job at the age of 62!

[Stan Halpin]

Congratulations! But I suspect that it is more than luck that landed you the 
job.

stan

On Jan 29, 2012, at 5:21 AM, Jens wrote:

> Hi List
> I left my job as an urban planner a couple of years ago. I left because I 
> didn't like my new boss - a VERY arrogant woman-architect. Nobody seemed to 
> like her. She made life Hell for a lot our employees.
> So, I,ve been working as a planner (dealing with building applicataions) for 
> 2 years. I was supposed to stop working (early retirement) in june 2012. I am 
> 62, so a new job was not really an issue - it's practically impossible in 
> Denmark, these days. So, I was getting in gear for upgrading my small 
> photography business to a full time day job.
> 
> But guess what - I got a new job - urban planning (I graduated as an 
> architect/urban planner back in 1978 and have been working as such for the 
> last 33f years) in the municipallity of Egedal - a small community in the 
> northern Copenhagen area. Lucky me! 
> 
> So, photography will remain a hobby/very small business of mine, at least 
> until 2014.
> 
> I recently bought a Pentax 67 and a 67II. And I'm lookiing forward to getting 
> real nice high resolution scans of 65 Megapixel very soon :-)
> 
> If I win the lottery, I'll get myself a Pentax 645D - or a nice Phase One w. 
> 60 MP back.
> 
> 
> BTW: 
> Mamiya and Leaf recently joined forces - I believe perhaps they are both 
> owned by Danish Phase One. But these cameras and backs are unfortunately much 
> too expensive for me.
> Pentax 645D is a bit closer to my kind of budget :-)
> 
> Regards
> Jens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.
> 
> On Jan 29, 2012 10:45 "Daniel J. Matyola"  wrote:
> 
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Re: PESO: Rainbow Eucalyptus

[Paul Stenquist]

It has the look of an abstract oil. Nice.
Paul
On Jan 29, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

> Thanks, Jack.
> 
> I did have boost the contrast and saturation a bit to get the image to
> show what my eye saw, as this was an early morning shot on a cloudy
> day.  The colors are there in nature.
> 
> The darker area on the left is the shaggy outer bark of the same tree,
> where it has not yet peeled off to reveal the smooth, shiny and
> colorful inner bark.  I left it in the frame for contrast as well as
> to show both kinds of bark on the same tree.
> 
> Thanks for looking and thanks for your kind comments.
> 
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Jack Davis  wrote:
>> I realize these color tones may have received some assistance from a 
>> "saturation" slider, it's still an impressive spectrum of colors.
>> Nice!
>> 
>> Is that left side darker area a second tree?
>> 
>> Jack
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Daniel J. Matyola 
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 9:41 AM
>> Subject: PESO: Rainbow Eucalyptus
>> 
>> Bark of a tree in Hosmer Grove, Haleakala National Park:
>> 
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073313
>> 
>> Comments and criticisms are invited.
>> 
>> Dan Matyola
>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>> 
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Re: BBC Dramadoc with Pentax content

[John Sessoms]

From: Cotty


For US and all non-UK residents who want to see this drama-doc it's here:



90 mins, no idea how long it will stay up!


Good. I enjoyed that.

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Re: BBC Dramadoc with Pentax content

[John Sessoms]

One thought that occurred to me half way through was how did they shoot 
it? Was it film or did they do the DSLR video thing?


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RE: PESO 3:13 PM and Snowing

[Jeffery Johnson]

So you didn't melt in all that snow or even freeze. Luckily no snow here yet
this season. Heck there are Butter Cups already blooming and it is only
January.


Photo Captures by Jeffery
http://www.photocapturesbyjeffery.com

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Paul
Stenquist
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 4:09 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: PESO 3:13 PM and Snowing

Shot in the snow for an hour or more today. Really soaked the K-5 and DA*
50-135. No problems. I added this one to my "It Happens on Woodward" set. 

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15077373

Paul
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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4775 - Release Date: 01/29/12


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Re: PESO 3:13 PM and Snowing

[Bob Sullivan]

Paul,
I can feel the cold.  Love that snow piled on the branches.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Shot in the snow for an hour or more today. Really soaked the K-5 and DA* 
> 50-135. No problems. I added this one to my "It Happens on Woodward" set.
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15077373
>
> Paul
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Here's a list guaranteed to generate a lot of debate

[Larry Colen]

The 50 greatest cameras of all time:
http://www.photographymonthly.com/Magazine/2010/50-Greatest-Cameras-of-All-Time

I've got a lot of issues with the list. For example the K20D, but not 
the spotmatic? Or, for that matter the K-5.


The Lumix DMC-LX3 and not the Argus C3, which was made for something 
like 35 years?



--
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Re: OT: Lucky me - I got a new job at the age of 62!

[Bob Sullivan]

Old saying, the multiple of luck is called skill.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Stan Halpin
 wrote:
> Congratulations! But I suspect that it is more than luck that landed you the 
> job.
>
> stan
>
> On Jan 29, 2012, at 5:21 AM, Jens wrote:
>
>> Hi List
>> I left my job as an urban planner a couple of years ago. I left because I 
>> didn't like my new boss - a VERY arrogant woman-architect. Nobody seemed to 
>> like her. She made life Hell for a lot our employees.
>> So, I,ve been working as a planner (dealing with building applicataions) for 
>> 2 years. I was supposed to stop working (early retirement) in june 2012. I 
>> am 62, so a new job was not really an issue - it's practically impossible in 
>> Denmark, these days. So, I was getting in gear for upgrading my small 
>> photography business to a full time day job.
>>
>> But guess what - I got a new job - urban planning (I graduated as an 
>> architect/urban planner back in 1978 and have been working as such for the 
>> last 33f years) in the municipallity of Egedal - a small community in the 
>> northern Copenhagen area. Lucky me!
>>
>> So, photography will remain a hobby/very small business of mine, at least 
>> until 2014.
>>
>> I recently bought a Pentax 67 and a 67II. And I'm lookiing forward to 
>> getting real nice high resolution scans of 65 Megapixel very soon :-)
>>
>> If I win the lottery, I'll get myself a Pentax 645D - or a nice Phase One w. 
>> 60 MP back.
>>
>>
>> BTW:
>> Mamiya and Leaf recently joined forces - I believe perhaps they are both 
>> owned by Danish Phase One. But these cameras and backs are unfortunately 
>> much too expensive for me.
>> Pentax 645D is a bit closer to my kind of budget :-)
>>
>> Regards
>> Jens
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.
>>
>> On Jan 29, 2012 10:45 "Daniel J. Matyola"  wrote:
>>
>> --
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Re: Here's a list guaranteed to generate a lot of debate

[Darren Addy]

Well, when you see what came in at No. 1, I guess you have to question
the criteria by which greatness is judged.
I think it is also silly that the Pentax 110 is in there (or if it is
then why the superior-in-all-ways Minolta 110 SLR isn't in there).

I don't know how it can ignore the 645D for breaking the 10K price
point in "medium format" digital. The omission of the Spotmatic is
probably the most egregious omission.

Darren Addy
Kearney, Nebraska

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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[William Robb]

On 29/01/2012 11:42 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote:




I would find the trend toward more technology disturbing if there were no 
options.
But since I can focus manually at will, or I can choose to use a single 
autofocus point

 -- with the plus of being able to choose the location of that pint --
the presence of other options doesn't bother me in the least.
Camera makers, for the most part, aren't brain dead. They're not going 
to take away the
options that many of us require. More technology is fine, since it 
doesn't get in my way.


You are thinking only in your own terms, not in the terms of photography 
in general. It's hard to discuss things with someone who only has an ego 
centrist viewpoint, but I'll try.
I think George's point, and it's hard to argue with it, is that 
photographers, like all other animals, will tend to take the easy way 
out. In the case of cameras, they won't learn how to meter a scene, or 
learn what the limitations of the meter are, they will put the camera on 
auto and hope for the best, or perhaps put the camera on manual and blow 
it because they don't really know how to interpret what their meter is 
telling them.
I spent enough time developing people's pictures during an era where we 
went from manual everything cameras to automatic everything cameras, and 
I did it in storefront labs that put me "on the spot" when it came time 
to tell customers exactly what went wrong with Aunt Martha's 90th 
birthday pictures, and yes, I'm sorry for you that she died yesterday 
and now you don't have pictures from her party either.
There really has been a very strong regression in the basic photography 
knowledge that people using cameras are willing to learn, even while 
they are willing to learn much more complex camera operations that have 
little to do with photography other than complicating it in it's own way.
We got automatic exposure and a fairly large % of people stopped 
learning how to set exposure properly.
We got autofocus and an equally large % of people stopped learning how 
to focus a camera (lots of overlap with the previous group).
Generally, they wouldn't learn until their ignorance came home to roost, 
and even then, they would generally be very convinced that it was the 
lab that caused the problem, even in the face of all evidence to the 
contrary.
Digital just made it worse, since it took away any possibility we had to 
fix things if the customer screwed up, and it gave the customer a lot of 
new and improved ways to bugger things up.
At least with film, I could print through 5 stops of over exposure and 
pull something out of the mess. At least with film, I didn't have to 
worry about customers wanting 8x10 prints from VGA sized files, and I 
could always read a negative, but quite often memory cards just wouldn't 
read in our equipment because the photographer had stuck the card into 
the camera and started writing files to it without formatting it.
If you think camera makers aren't going to take options away from us 
that we require, look at the viewfinder of your Pentax DSLR camera, 
compared to that of a good Pentax film camera from the 1980s.
It's small, tunnel like, and very hard to manual focus with even 
moderate wide angle lenses, even if you change the screen out to a 
Katz-Eye or some such (and having to do that kinda makes the point anyway).
Wait until you are forced into an electronic viewfinder, whether you 
like them or not because the camera company decides that while they are 
not as good as an optical finder, they are now "good enough".
If you think I'm wrong, I challenge you to try to find a non SLR camera 
with a fully functioning optical viewfinder of any kind, good or bad. As 
a feature, it is almost completely phased out.

So much for choice.

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Re: PESO: Clouds over the Crater

[steve harley]

on 2012-01-29 02:45 Daniel J. Matyola wrote

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15073312


lots of interesting detail when i view the larger size, and great depth in this 
photo; love the intense blue (natural?) of the upper left peak; i really like 
the top edge framing choice


there are a couple of sensor-dust spots on the main cone that you might want to 
vanquish (one is quite subtle, but visible because there are such nice gradations)


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Re: Back to Verona

[Rick Womer]

I like this a lot.  The lighting is dramatic, and the blurred figure of the 
pedestrian adds scale and interest.

Rick
 
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: John Coyle 
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' 
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 11:07 PM
Subject: Back to Verona

Is what we must do - did not have enough time in that very pretty and 
interesting city.
Here is another high ASA shot taken in Verona's famous Piazza Bra:

http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~jco...@iinet.net.au/Verona1.html

Pentax *istD, 3200 ASA;  Pentax DA 16-45 at 16mm: 1/10 @ f4
Comments, plaudits and brickbats equally welcome.

John Coyle
Brisbane, Australia




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Re: OT: Lucky me - I got a new job at the age of 62!

[steve harley]

on 2012-01-29 03:21 Jens wrote

But guess what - I got a new job - urban planning (I graduated as an 
architect/urban planner back in 1978 and have been working as such for the last 
33f years) in the municipallity of Egedal - a small community in the northern 
Copenhagen area. Lucky me!


that's heartwarming to hear, and interesting story; i do a lot of community 
advocacy in local (Denver, USA) urban planning and my stepfather was an 
architect who taught urban planning, so it's interesting to know of your 
background; we actually use Danish examples sometimes when reworking some of 
our existing automobile-centric designs



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Re: Here's a list guaranteed to generate a lot of debate

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Dumb.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
> Well, when you see what came in at No. 1, I guess you have to question
> the criteria by which greatness is judged.
> I think it is also silly that the Pentax 110 is in there (or if it is
> then why the superior-in-all-ways Minolta 110 SLR isn't in there).
>
> I don't know how it can ignore the 645D for breaking the 10K price
> point in "medium format" digital. The omission of the Spotmatic is
> probably the most egregious omission.
>
> Darren Addy
> Kearney, Nebraska
>
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-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: OT: Lucky me - I got a new job at the age of 62!

[David Savage]

On 30/01/2012, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> Congrats, Jens!
>
> Have you considered a used Phase One? I understand the P25 is "affordable".

That's the route I'd go.

DS

> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 5:21 AM, Jens  wrote:
>> Hi List
>> I left my job as an urban planner a couple of years ago. I left because I
>> didn't like my new boss - a VERY arrogant woman-architect. Nobody seemed
>> to like her. She made life Hell for a lot our employees.
>> So, I,ve been working as a planner (dealing with building applicataions)
>> for 2 years. I was supposed to stop working (early retirement) in june
>> 2012. I am 62, so a new job was not really an issue - it's practically
>> impossible in Denmark, these days. So, I was getting in gear for upgrading
>> my small photography business to a full time day job.
>>
>> But guess what - I got a new job - urban planning (I graduated as an
>> architect/urban planner back in 1978 and have been working as such for the
>> last 33f years) in the municipallity of Egedal - a small community in the
>> northern Copenhagen area. Lucky me!
>>
>> So, photography will remain a hobby/very small business of mine, at least
>> until 2014.
>>
>> I recently bought a Pentax 67 and a 67II. And I'm lookiing forward to
>> getting real nice high resolution scans of 65 Megapixel very soon :-)
>>
>> If I win the lottery, I'll get myself a Pentax 645D - or a nice Phase One
>> w. 60 MP back.
>>
>>
>> BTW:
>> Mamiya and Leaf recently joined forces - I believe perhaps they are both
>> owned by Danish Phase One. But these cameras and backs are unfortunately
>> much too expensive for me.
>> Pentax 645D is a bit closer to my kind of budget :-)
>>
>> Regards
>> Jens
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.
>
> --
> -bmw
>
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Re: Why Not RAW Format on ALL Digital Cameras?

[Paul Stenquist]

On Jan 29, 2012, at 9:23 PM, William Robb wrote:

> On 29/01/2012 11:42 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I would find the trend toward more technology disturbing if there were no 
>> options.
> But since I can focus manually at will, or I can choose to use a single 
> autofocus point
> -- with the plus of being able to choose the location of that pint --
> the presence of other options doesn't bother me in the least.
> Camera makers, for the most part, aren't brain dead. They're not going to 
> take away the
> options that many of us require. More technology is fine, since it doesn't 
> get in my way.
>> 
> You are thinking only in your own terms, not in the terms of photography in 
> general.It's hard to discuss things with someone who only has an ego centrist 
> viewpoint, but I'll try.

Ever the ass, eh Bill? Have another drink.




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RE: Back to Verona

[John Coyle]

Thanks Rick.  Did you get to Verona on your trip?

John Coyle
Brisbane, Australia




-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Rick 
Womer
Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:37 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Back to Verona

I like this a lot.  The lighting is dramatic, and the blurred figure of the 
pedestrian
adds scale and interest.

Rick
 
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: John Coyle 
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' 
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 11:07 PM
Subject: Back to Verona

Is what we must do - did not have enough time in that very pretty and 
interesting city.
Here is another high ASA shot taken in Verona's famous Piazza Bra:

http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~jco...@iinet.net.au/Verona1.html

Pentax *istD, 3200 ASA;  Pentax DA 16-45 at 16mm: 1/10 @ f4 Comments, plaudits 
and
brickbats equally welcome.

John Coyle
Brisbane, Australia




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Re: Here's a list guaranteed to generate a lot of debate

[Paul Stenquist]

On Jan 29, 2012, at 9:41 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

> Dumb.

A succinct summary.

> 
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
>> Well, when you see what came in at No. 1, I guess you have to question
>> the criteria by which greatness is judged.
>> I think it is also silly that the Pentax 110 is in there (or if it is
>> then why the superior-in-all-ways Minolta 110 SLR isn't in there).
>> 
>> I don't know how it can ignore the 645D for breaking the 10K price
>> point in "medium format" digital. The omission of the Spotmatic is
>> probably the most egregious omission.
>> 
>> Darren Addy
>> Kearney, Nebraska
>> 
>> --
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>> follow the directions.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Godfrey
>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
> 
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Re: Here's a list guaranteed to generate a lot of debate

[Anthony Farr]

On 30 January 2012 13:41, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> Dumb.
>

Agreed.

32 film cameras, 17 digital cameras and 1 instant camera doesn't seem
such a bad balance on the face of it, but the devil is in the detail.

The digital representation seems intended to keep the big advertisers
happy, there's a lot of C & N content that's pretty repetitious, but
only two digital cameras ~weren't~ DSLRs or MILCs/EVILs.  That as good
as says that this list is meant to appeal firstly to camera
enthusiasts.

All I can say about the film cameras is Ermanox, Speed Graphic and
Graflex, where are they?

The Ermanox made available light handheld photography possible.  The
absence of Speed Graphic and Graflex says that decades of press
photography is irrelevent in the judges eyes.

And if only one Polaroid why not the first model?

regards, Anthony

   "Of what use is lens and light
    to those who lack in mind and sight"
                                               (Anon)

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Re: Tokina lenses and Pentax?

[Rick Womer]

Igor,

Pentax and Tokina collaborated on a number of lenses in the '90s and '00s, as I 
recall.  Part of the deal was that they would only be available for Pentax with 
a Pentax badge on them.  The similarities in focal lengths, sizes, formulae, 
and features aren't a coincidence.

Rick


 
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: Igor Roshchin 
To: PDML@pdml.net
Cc: 
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 9:21 AM
Subject: Tokina lenses and Pentax?


Does anybody know what happened with Tokina lenses for Pentax?

I very much like my Tokina ATX Pro 28-70/2.6-2.8.
This was my first lens for Pentax cameras that I bought with Zx5n.

When Hoya bought Pentax, Tokina stopped producing any lenses in Pentax
mount, and as far as I understood, started producing some of the Pentax
lens designs in other mounts (10-17 fisheye, 12-24, 100/2.8 Macro.

Now, that the relation through marriage has broken apart, and Tokina
again makes lenses on its own, - will they start producing any
lenses in Pentax mount? (like the new 16-28/2.8, 11-16/2.8)
Or are they still under some contractual obligation that forbids that?
http://www.thkphoto.com/tokina/

Does anybody know?

Igor


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Re: Venice 2011

[Rick Womer]

Moderation in all things, John!  (and some noise reduction in LR3?)

Rick
 
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: John Coyle 
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' 
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: Venice 2011

Hi Rick - now you'll see the flaws!
http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~jco...@iinet.net.au/PiazzaSanMarco_lge.jpg

Warning -it is over 5MB in size. 

John Coyle
Brisbane, Australia




-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Rick 
Womer
Sent: Saturday, 28 January 2012 1:46 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Venice 2011

I like it!  It's fun to see an almost-empty San Marco.

Can you provide a somewhat larger size?

Rick
 
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: John Coyle 
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' 
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:01 PM
Subject: Venice 2011

Finally beginning to edit my images from my trip to Italy, spurred on by Rick's 
excellent
examples.

Here's one showing the extent to which I pushed my *istD - 3200 ASA!
http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~jco...@iinet.net.au/PSanMarco.html

Pentax *istD, 3200 ASA,  DA 16-45 at 16mm, 1/15 @ f4 Comments, plaudits and 
brickbats
equally welcome.


John Coyle
Brisbane, Australia




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Re: PESO 3:13 PM and Snowing

[Rick Womer]

Very nice shot.  I like the subjects and composition a lot.

Rick
 
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: Paul Stenquist 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:09 PM
Subject: PESO 3:13 PM and Snowing

Shot in the snow for an hour or more today. Really soaked the K-5 and DA* 
50-135. No problems. I added this one to my "It Happens on Woodward" set. 

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15077373

Paul
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Re: PESO 3:13 PM and Snowing

[Paul Stenquist]

Thanks Rick, Bob and Jeffery. I've tried shooting that clock before, but the 
result was always a yawn. The snow made a difference.
Paul
On Jan 29, 2012, at 10:12 PM, Rick Womer wrote:

> Very nice shot.  I like the subjects and composition a lot.
> 
> Rick
>  
> http://photo.net/photos/RickW
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Paul Stenquist 
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:09 PM
> Subject: PESO 3:13 PM and Snowing
> 
> Shot in the snow for an hour or more today. Really soaked the K-5 and DA* 
> 50-135. No problems. I added this one to my "It Happens on Woodward" set. 
> 
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=15077373
> 
> Paul
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Re: PESO 2012 - 015 - GDG

[Rick Womer]

Nice.  I'll bet the same architect is responsible for this museum in Toronto:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14149412


Rick
 
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi 
To: PAW Picture-A-Week project ; SeePhoto Talk 
; BAPhotoShooters BAPA 
; PDML List 
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:19 PM
Subject: PESO 2012 - 015 - GDG

Wandering a bit in San Francisco yesterday, passing the Contemporary Jewish 
Museum, this scene caught my eye and I couldn't resist making a photograph.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/6785078827/lightbox/
or
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/6785078827/

Thanks for looking, comments always appreciated. 

enjoy,
Godfrey
-
flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/

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Re: Here's a list guaranteed to generate a lot of debate

[John Mullan]

It appears that it is a single persons view of great cameras, but done by 
someone too young to have known some of the truly great cameras in their 
day.  In its day the Spotmatic was what everyone else wished they had made.


jm

-Original Message- 
From: Larry Colen

Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 8:55 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss List
Subject: Here's a list guaranteed to generate a lot of debate

The 50 greatest cameras of all time:
http://www.photographymonthly.com/Magazine/2010/50-Greatest-Cameras-of-All-Time

I've got a lot of issues with the list. For example the K20D, but not
the spotmatic? Or, for that matter the K-5.

The Lumix DMC-LX3 and not the Argus C3, which was made for something
like 35 years?


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (from dos4est)

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