Re: PESO - Snowproofed
Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: The claim of any environment is the exaggeration. If one goes below -10C, what about that environment, or what about extremely hot conditions? Normally, electronic circuits work just fine at arbitrarily cold temperatures (not necessarily when they get too hot), so I'm wondering if there are mechanical issues that could come into play at very cold temperatures. Otherwise, why would they provide a low-temperature threshold? -T It _used_ to be due to (mainly) battery and/or lubrication issues. Since the advent of lithium (in all its flavours) for batteries and constructional plastics that have some lubrication qualities, reducing the need for grease, these issues have receded somewhat. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
2010/1/15 mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com: Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: The claim of any environment is the exaggeration. If one goes below -10C, what about that environment, or what about extremely hot conditions? Normally, electronic circuits work just fine at arbitrarily cold temperatures (not necessarily when they get too hot), so I'm wondering if there are mechanical issues that could come into play at very cold temperatures. Otherwise, why would they provide a low-temperature threshold? -T It _used_ to be due to (mainly) battery and/or lubrication issues. Since the advent of lithium (in all its flavours) for batteries and constructional plastics that have some lubrication qualities, reducing the need for grease, these issues have receded somewhat. That's the point, isn't it. We used to have cameras that were not guaranteed to work in even moderately bad weather. Then there was a lot of raving over images obtained under conditions that were outside warranty. Now that materials have approved, people go whining about the folly of taking the same risks. The only thing camera improvement seems to spawn is ever more demanding customers. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
2010/1/15 AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com: Now that materials have approved, improved, of course. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
Don't blame the customer though. It's the camera manufacturer that 'weatherized' the product and then sold it on that basis. While I don't believe every word I read, I also think the customer has a right to at least heightened expectations. Tom On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 3:19 AM, AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/15 mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com: Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: The claim of any environment is the exaggeration. If one goes below -10C, what about that environment, or what about extremely hot conditions? Normally, electronic circuits work just fine at arbitrarily cold temperatures (not necessarily when they get too hot), so I'm wondering if there are mechanical issues that could come into play at very cold temperatures. Otherwise, why would they provide a low-temperature threshold? -T It _used_ to be due to (mainly) battery and/or lubrication issues. Since the advent of lithium (in all its flavours) for batteries and constructional plastics that have some lubrication qualities, reducing the need for grease, these issues have receded somewhat. That's the point, isn't it. We used to have cameras that were not guaranteed to work in even moderately bad weather. Then there was a lot of raving over images obtained under conditions that were outside warranty. Now that materials have approved, people go whining about the folly of taking the same risks. The only thing camera improvement seems to spawn is ever more demanding customers. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
, AlunFoto wrote: The only thing camera improvement seems to spawn is ever more demanding customers. It's the same way with everything. As an example, just about every safety improvement that has tricked down into automobiles has led to a higher collision rate. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
For instance? On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:01 AM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote: , AlunFoto wrote: The only thing camera improvement seems to spawn is ever more demanding customers. It's the same way with everything. As an example, just about every safety improvement that has tricked down into automobiles has led to a higher collision rate. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
- Original Message - From: Thomas Cakalic Subject: Re: PESO - Snowproofed For instance? Seat belts, radial tires, strut type suspension, ABS brakes (a real biggie), air bags. Pretty much anything that has been marketed to make the driver think that they can either push the envelope a bit harder or that has been sold as making the driver safer in a crash has resulted in more accidents rather than less. At least that's what my friend at SGI Claims tells me. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
I see the point you're making. I think you're friend though, may be misinformed. Take a look at these two links: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/transportation/motor_vehicle_accidents_and_fatalities.html (look at first .xls) The last referenced link indicates that over the last 30 or so years, collisions dropped by about 40% and fatalities dropped by about half, depending on which statistic is being considered. Even if the number of accidents stayed constant, it would statiscially be at a lower rate because there are more vehicles and drivers with each passing year. This was US data, I can't speak for Canadians. ;-) I love/hate antilock brakes. I like that it prevents me from going into an uncontrolled skid, but then again when I'm using studded tires going down a steep icy road with 50 - 300 ft. drop offs, when I tell the car to stop, I want it to STOP, and with antilock brakes it slows but keeps going. I understand what your saying, there's always the subset of the population that acts invincible behind the wheel because they have 4WD or AWD, but statistically the safety features may/seem to prevent accidents/save lives. Of course there are other factors that go into the statistics besides just car safety features. Drunk driving penalties and enforcement is up, etc. Tom On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Thomas Cakalic Subject: Re: PESO - Snowproofed For instance? Seat belts, radial tires, strut type suspension, ABS brakes (a real biggie), air bags. Pretty much anything that has been marketed to make the driver think that they can either push the envelope a bit harder or that has been sold as making the driver safer in a crash has resulted in more accidents rather than less. At least that's what my friend at SGI Claims tells me. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
2010/1/15 Tom C caka...@gmail.com: Don't blame the customer though. It's the camera manufacturer that 'weatherized' the product and then sold it on that basis. While I don't believe every word I read, I also think the customer has a right to at least heightened expectations. For heigthened expectations? Certainly not. For whining about not getting it like spoiled kids? Definately. The currently most purebred Pentax whiner runs a blog called RiceHigh, nicknamed RiceWhine. http://ricehigh.blogspot.com/ There's been preciously little of it around here for some time. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
- Original Message - From: Tom C Subject: Re: PESO - Snowproofed I see the point you're making. I think you're friend though, may be misinformed. Take a look at these two links: He is prone to hyperbole. However, in Saskatchewan, collision rates have inceased substantially since 1983 (~4 in 1983 to ~5 in 2007). Saskatchewans population has not changed significantly during that time. we always seem to hover around a population of 1 million in this province, so for where we are living, I suspect he is right. http://www.sgi.sk.ca/sgi_pub/road_safety/trafficcollisionstats/pdf/2007/TAIS_07_section1.pdf William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
From: Thomas Cakalic For instance? On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:01 AM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote: , AlunFoto ?wrote: The only thing camera improvement seems to spawn is ever more demanding customers. It's the same way with everything. As an example, just about every safety improvement that has tricked down into automobiles has led to a higher collision rate. Indirect result: Safer cars + better roads - more cars on the road - more opportunities for collisions to occur. Plus, safer cars tempt people to drive in bad weather, resulting again in more opportunities for collisions; just like weatherproofed cameras tempt photographers to go out and take photos in bad weather. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com Subject: Re: PESO - Snowproofed , AlunFoto wrote: The only thing camera improvement seems to spawn is ever more demanding customers. It's the same way with everything. As an example, just about every safety improvement that has tricked down into automobiles has led to a higher collision rate. In the case of autos, I'm not sure the correct adjective is 'demanding', in some cases stupid is closer to the truth. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com Subject: Re: PESO - Snowproofed - Original Message - From: Thomas Cakalic Subject: Re: PESO - Snowproofed For instance? Seat belts, radial tires, strut type suspension, ABS brakes (a real biggie), air bags. Pretty much anything that has been marketed to make the driver think that they can either push the envelope a bit harder or that has been sold as making the driver safer in a crash has resulted in more accidents rather than less. At least that's what my friend at SGI Claims tells me. My experiences in the auto industry are inline with your friend's William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: PESO - Snowproofed
The only thing camera improvement seems to spawn is ever more demanding customers. It's the same way with everything. As an example, just about every safety improvement that has tricked down into automobiles has led to a higher collision rate. In the case of autos, I'm not sure the correct adjective is 'demanding', in some cases stupid is closer to the truth. Surely not! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8454242.stm Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Bob W p...@web-options.com Subject: RE: PESO - Snowproofed The only thing camera improvement seems to spawn is ever more demanding customers. It's the same way with everything. As an example, just about every safety improvement that has tricked down into automobiles has led to a higher collision rate. In the case of autos, I'm not sure the correct adjective is 'demanding', in some cases stupid is closer to the truth. Surely not! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8454242.stm In the U.S. this would probably result in a lawsuit against the manufacturer cause they didn't foresee this as a possible use of an auto provide warning. or floatation ;+] Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
On 15/01/2010, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: The claim of any environment is the exaggeration. If one goes below -10C, what about that environment, or what about extremely hot conditions? Waterproof and weather resistant are obviously two different things. My 2 cents. Given all that I'd be disappointed in the failure as well, as expectations that were set by the manufacturers claims were not met. I've managed to use all my cameras in rain over the years without a single failure but I'm careful how I do it. I trust no claims of weather sealing and as has been pointed out many times on various lists neither do the manufacturers. There is an Internationally recognised method of rating sealing that is very specific which I think only Oly may have utilised in reference to cameras. All sorts of other hand held electronic equipment seems to be able to be successfully rated but obviously in the case of cameras it would be far too revealing, not a great marketing tool. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code Mostly here there are discussions about cold performance but heat is an enemy too. It seems that hotter days here aren't conducive to movie making on the K-x, there have been various reports of stuttering and complete failure though I've yet to experience problems (but I've only shot video on mild hays so far). I wonder what the heat range for shooting video on the K7 is? Cheers, -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: PESO - Snowproofed
The only thing camera improvement seems to spawn is ever more demanding customers. It's the same way with everything. As an example, just about every safety improvement that has tricked down into automobiles has led to a higher collision rate. In the case of autos, I'm not sure the correct adjective is 'demanding', in some cases stupid is closer to the truth. Surely not! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8454242.stm In the U.S. this would probably result in a lawsuit against the manufacturer cause they didn't foresee this as a possible use of an auto provide warning. or floatation ;+] I'd have a go at British Waterways too. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
Sorry to hear, Stig. I should perhaps add that a Canon D-7 succumbed to moisture at the particular landing where I took my photo. Fortunately it came back to life after roughly two days of drying out, but in principle it's a camera with about the same level of weather protection as has the K-7. So maybe I was lucky? At least I was deliberately pushing my luck... Jostein 2010/1/14 SV Hovland p...@heime.org: My K-7 stopped working after two hours in rain and is currently at Pentax for repair which I have to pay myself. I was told by Pentax that it is not meant to withstand normal autumn rain in Norway for two hours. The sealing was meant for withstanding light rain for a short time, I was told. So from now on I have to treat it like its not weather proofed at all. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av Jim King [jamesk8...@mac.com] Sendt: 13. januar 2010 19:25 Til: pdml@pdml.net Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed A great example of K-7/DA* weatherproofing. You ought to send it to Pentax as a candidate for an advertisement. Regards, Jim -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
I don't think its going to be expensive. My camera started to work again after two days on drying and I used it for a month or two before I sent it in. Pentax confirmed residual of water inside, but I was lucky and no circuit boards or mechanics seemed to be damaged. So it ended up in a small service which shouldn't cost me to much. But I am still surprised about the response I got after all the marketing Pentax has done on its weather resistance. I would believe it could be used in normal autumn weather in Norway, but not so. For those interested: It rained 3-4mm / hour which my K-7 was able to handle for a period of two hours. 3-4mm / hour is perhaps a lot of rain, but still normal where I live. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av AlunFoto [alunf...@gmail.com] Sendt: 14. januar 2010 11:33 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed Sorry to hear, Stig. I should perhaps add that a Canon D-7 succumbed to moisture at the particular landing where I took my photo. Fortunately it came back to life after roughly two days of drying out, but in principle it's a camera with about the same level of weather protection as has the K-7. So maybe I was lucky? At least I was deliberately pushing my luck... Jostein 2010/1/14 SV Hovland p...@heime.org: My K-7 stopped working after two hours in rain and is currently at Pentax for repair which I have to pay myself. I was told by Pentax that it is not meant to withstand normal autumn rain in Norway for two hours. The sealing was meant for withstanding light rain for a short time, I was told. So from now on I have to treat it like its not weather proofed at all. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av Jim King [jamesk8...@mac.com] Sendt: 13. januar 2010 19:25 Til: pdml@pdml.net Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed A great example of K-7/DA* weatherproofing. You ought to send it to Pentax as a candidate for an advertisement. Regards, Jim -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
I've used my PZ-1p and *ist D NON-WEATHER SEALED cameras in rain and snow conditions numerous times where after shooting I needed to dry the camera with a towel and never had a problem. It would be interesting to know just how long one of these weather-sealed bodies would last in a controlled test. I'm inclined to believe, that the weather resistant claims are more a sales pitch, than a true feature that can be counted on and pressed to any degree. Jostein's camera could very well fail the next time he uses it in exactly the same conditions as it successfully operated in before. It's like when I purchase a pair of pants. If the product has a claim of Resists wrinkles, that really means It wrinkles, because all fabrics RESIST wrinkling. When it says Wrinkle-free or no ironing then I find it pretty much to be true. But even then... So I interpret the claim of weather resistant to mean It leaks. Obviously the claim on the Pentax website is exaggerated. It reads: Weather, dust and cold resistant The K-7 is weather, dust and cold resistant (to 14° F or -10° C), making it ideal for use in any environment. I know it has umpty-ump seals and so forth, but all cameras are weather, dust and cold resistant because they're solid objects and 99+% of the body is impervious to water.. Water always follows the course of least resistance and typically that is down and off. Electronics and mechanisms tend to keep working UNTIL they are overcome by the temperature. The claim of any environment is the exaggeration. If one goes below -10C, what about that environment, or what about extremely hot conditions? Waterproof and weather resistant are obviously two different things. My 2 cents. Given all that I'd be disappointed in the failure as well, as expectations that were set by the manufacturers claims were not met. Tom On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 3:59 AM, SV Hovland p...@heime.org wrote: I don't think its going to be expensive. My camera started to work again after two days on drying and I used it for a month or two before I sent it in. Pentax confirmed residual of water inside, but I was lucky and no circuit boards or mechanics seemed to be damaged. So it ended up in a small service which shouldn't cost me to much. But I am still surprised about the response I got after all the marketing Pentax has done on its weather resistance. I would believe it could be used in normal autumn weather in Norway, but not so. For those interested: It rained 3-4mm / hour which my K-7 was able to handle for a period of two hours. 3-4mm / hour is perhaps a lot of rain, but still normal where I live. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av AlunFoto [alunf...@gmail.com] Sendt: 14. januar 2010 11:33 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed Sorry to hear, Stig. I should perhaps add that a Canon D-7 succumbed to moisture at the particular landing where I took my photo. Fortunately it came back to life after roughly two days of drying out, but in principle it's a camera with about the same level of weather protection as has the K-7. So maybe I was lucky? At least I was deliberately pushing my luck... Jostein 2010/1/14 SV Hovland p...@heime.org: My K-7 stopped working after two hours in rain and is currently at Pentax for repair which I have to pay myself. I was told by Pentax that it is not meant to withstand normal autumn rain in Norway for two hours. The sealing was meant for withstanding light rain for a short time, I was told. So from now on I have to treat it like its not weather proofed at all. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av Jim King [jamesk8...@mac.com] Sendt: 13. januar 2010 19:25 Til: pdml@pdml.net Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed A great example of K-7/DA* weatherproofing. You ought to send it to Pentax as a candidate for an advertisement. Regards, Jim -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: The claim of any environment is the exaggeration. If one goes below -10C, what about that environment, or what about extremely hot conditions? As I've mentioned here, I visit Saskatchewan every winter and always try to do a photowalk. I've taken tons of pictures with both my *ist-D and K20 at temperatures like -35°C and never had any trouble. Normally, electronic circuits work just fine at arbitrarily cold temperatures (not necessarily when they get too hot), so I'm wondering if there are mechanical issues that could come into play at very cold temperatures. Otherwise, why would they provide a low-temperature threshold? -T -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
My thought as well... I'm guessing mirror/shutter and screwdrive for the AF mainly. Tom On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: The claim of any environment is the exaggeration. If one goes below -10C, what about that environment, or what about extremely hot conditions? As I've mentioned here, I visit Saskatchewan every winter and always try to do a photowalk. I've taken tons of pictures with both my *ist-D and K20 at temperatures like -35°C and never had any trouble. Normally, electronic circuits work just fine at arbitrarily cold temperatures (not necessarily when they get too hot), so I'm wondering if there are mechanical issues that could come into play at very cold temperatures. Otherwise, why would they provide a low-temperature threshold? -T -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: PESO - Snowproofed
I know it has umpty-ump seals and so forth, but all cameras are weather, dust and cold resistant because they're solid objects and 99+% of the body is impervious to water.. Water always follows the course of least resistance and typically that is down and off. Electronics and mechanisms tend to keep working UNTIL they are overcome by the temperature. Olympus make some fairly strong claims about their weatherproofing: http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/dslr_E-3_Made_for_the_Extreme.htm Maybe all the non-sealed bodies are equally robust, but I wouldn't want to test it on my own kit. My Leica M8 didn't even resist a splash of beer in a pub, whereas my Olympus E-1 has frequently stood up to very long periods (hours) of heavy rain. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
I've shot alot in the rain snow, mostly from a tripod and I've always protected it as much as possible with a towel or my b-ball cap, never had an issue with any of them - PZ, PZ-1P, MZ-S, *istD, K10D or K20D., 28-80 F, 70-210F, 300 f4.5 FA, 600 FA. I wouldn't consider any device like a camera body (except a Nikonos) or lens to be impervious to damage from moisture. Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Tom C caka...@gmail.com Subject: Re: PESO - Snowproofed I've used my PZ-1p and *ist D NON-WEATHER SEALED cameras in rain and snow conditions numerous times where after shooting I needed to dry the camera with a towel and never had a problem. It would be interesting to know just how long one of these weather-sealed bodies would last in a controlled test. I'm inclined to believe, that the weather resistant claims are more a sales pitch, than a true feature that can be counted on and pressed to any degree. Jostein's camera could very well fail the next time he uses it in exactly the same conditions as it successfully operated in before. Interestingly, my cheapee Timex watch states on the back 'Water resistant to 100m' It's like when I purchase a pair of pants. If the product has a claim of Resists wrinkles, that really means It wrinkles, because all fabrics RESIST wrinkling. When it says Wrinkle-free or no ironing then I find it pretty much to be true. But even then... So I interpret the claim of weather resistant to mean It leaks. Obviously the claim on the Pentax website is exaggerated. It reads: Weather, dust and cold resistant The K-7 is weather, dust and cold resistant (to 14° F or -10° C), making it ideal for use in any environment. I know it has umpty-ump seals and so forth, but all cameras are weather, dust and cold resistant because they're solid objects and 99+% of the body is impervious to water.. Water always follows the course of least resistance and typically that is down and off. Electronics and mechanisms tend to keep working UNTIL they are overcome by the temperature. The claim of any environment is the exaggeration. If one goes below -10C, what about that environment, or what about extremely hot conditions? Waterproof and weather resistant are obviously two different things. My 2 cents. Given all that I'd be disappointed in the failure as well, as expectations that were set by the manufacturers claims were not met. Tom On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 3:59 AM, SV Hovland p...@heime.org wrote: I don't think its going to be expensive. My camera started to work again after two days on drying and I used it for a month or two before I sent it in. Pentax confirmed residual of water inside, but I was lucky and no circuit boards or mechanics seemed to be damaged. So it ended up in a small service which shouldn't cost me to much. But I am still surprised about the response I got after all the marketing Pentax has done on its weather resistance. I would believe it could be used in normal autumn weather in Norway, but not so. For those interested: It rained 3-4mm / hour which my K-7 was able to handle for a period of two hours. 3-4mm / hour is perhaps a lot of rain, but still normal where I live. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av AlunFoto [alunf...@gmail.com] Sendt: 14. januar 2010 11:33 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed Sorry to hear, Stig. I should perhaps add that a Canon D-7 succumbed to moisture at the particular landing where I took my photo. Fortunately it came back to life after roughly two days of drying out, but in principle it's a camera with about the same level of weather protection as has the K-7. So maybe I was lucky? At least I was deliberately pushing my luck... Jostein 2010/1/14 SV Hovland p...@heime.org: My K-7 stopped working after two hours in rain and is currently at Pentax for repair which I have to pay myself. I was told by Pentax that it is not meant to withstand normal autumn rain in Norway for two hours. The sealing was meant for withstanding light rain for a short time, I was told. So from now on I have to treat it like its not weather proofed at all. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av Jim King [jamesk8...@mac.com] Sendt: 13. januar 2010 19:25 Til: pdml@pdml.net Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed A great example of K-7/DA* weatherproofing. You ought to send it to Pentax as a candidate for an advertisement. Regards, Jim -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
I've used a gallon size ZipLock bag in the past. It keeps the camera totally dry between shots and I can pretty much just pull the bag up over the edge of the lens and still operate most controls, again on a tripod. Tom On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: I've shot alot in the rain snow, mostly from a tripod and I've always protected it as much as possible with a towel or my b-ball cap, never had an issue with any of them - PZ, PZ-1P, MZ-S, *istD, K10D or K20D., 28-80 F, 70-210F, 300 f4.5 FA, 600 FA. I wouldn't consider any device like a camera body (except a Nikonos) or lens to be impervious to damage from moisture. Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Tom C caka...@gmail.com Subject: Re: PESO - Snowproofed I've used my PZ-1p and *ist D NON-WEATHER SEALED cameras in rain and snow conditions numerous times where after shooting I needed to dry the camera with a towel and never had a problem. It would be interesting to know just how long one of these weather-sealed bodies would last in a controlled test. I'm inclined to believe, that the weather resistant claims are more a sales pitch, than a true feature that can be counted on and pressed to any degree. Jostein's camera could very well fail the next time he uses it in exactly the same conditions as it successfully operated in before. Interestingly, my cheapee Timex watch states on the back 'Water resistant to 100m' It's like when I purchase a pair of pants. If the product has a claim of Resists wrinkles, that really means It wrinkles, because all fabrics RESIST wrinkling. When it says Wrinkle-free or no ironing then I find it pretty much to be true. But even then... So I interpret the claim of weather resistant to mean It leaks. Obviously the claim on the Pentax website is exaggerated. It reads: Weather, dust and cold resistant The K-7 is weather, dust and cold resistant (to 14° F or -10° C), making it ideal for use in any environment. I know it has umpty-ump seals and so forth, but all cameras are weather, dust and cold resistant because they're solid objects and 99+% of the body is impervious to water.. Water always follows the course of least resistance and typically that is down and off. Electronics and mechanisms tend to keep working UNTIL they are overcome by the temperature. The claim of any environment is the exaggeration. If one goes below -10C, what about that environment, or what about extremely hot conditions? Waterproof and weather resistant are obviously two different things. My 2 cents. Given all that I'd be disappointed in the failure as well, as expectations that were set by the manufacturers claims were not met. Tom On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 3:59 AM, SV Hovland p...@heime.org wrote: I don't think its going to be expensive. My camera started to work again after two days on drying and I used it for a month or two before I sent it in. Pentax confirmed residual of water inside, but I was lucky and no circuit boards or mechanics seemed to be damaged. So it ended up in a small service which shouldn't cost me to much. But I am still surprised about the response I got after all the marketing Pentax has done on its weather resistance. I would believe it could be used in normal autumn weather in Norway, but not so. For those interested: It rained 3-4mm / hour which my K-7 was able to handle for a period of two hours. 3-4mm / hour is perhaps a lot of rain, but still normal where I live. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av AlunFoto [alunf...@gmail.com] Sendt: 14. januar 2010 11:33 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed Sorry to hear, Stig. I should perhaps add that a Canon D-7 succumbed to moisture at the particular landing where I took my photo. Fortunately it came back to life after roughly two days of drying out, but in principle it's a camera with about the same level of weather protection as has the K-7. So maybe I was lucky? At least I was deliberately pushing my luck... Jostein 2010/1/14 SV Hovland p...@heime.org: My K-7 stopped working after two hours in rain and is currently at Pentax for repair which I have to pay myself. I was told by Pentax that it is not meant to withstand normal autumn rain in Norway for two hours. The sealing was meant for withstanding light rain for a short time, I was told. So from now on I have to treat it like its not weather proofed at all. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av Jim King [jamesk8...@mac.com] Sendt: 13. januar 2010 19:25 Til: pdml@pdml.net Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed A great example of K-7/DA* weatherproofing. You ought to send it to Pentax as a candidate for an advertisement. Regards, Jim
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
I'm sure the Timex watch claim is true. It resists... but as we all know... On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: I've shot alot in the rain snow, mostly from a tripod and I've always protected it as much as possible with a towel or my b-ball cap, never had an issue with any of them - PZ, PZ-1P, MZ-S, *istD, K10D or K20D., 28-80 F, 70-210F, 300 f4.5 FA, 600 FA. I wouldn't consider any device like a camera body (except a Nikonos) or lens to be impervious to damage from moisture. Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Tom C caka...@gmail.com Subject: Re: PESO - Snowproofed I've used my PZ-1p and *ist D NON-WEATHER SEALED cameras in rain and snow conditions numerous times where after shooting I needed to dry the camera with a towel and never had a problem. It would be interesting to know just how long one of these weather-sealed bodies would last in a controlled test. I'm inclined to believe, that the weather resistant claims are more a sales pitch, than a true feature that can be counted on and pressed to any degree. Jostein's camera could very well fail the next time he uses it in exactly the same conditions as it successfully operated in before. Interestingly, my cheapee Timex watch states on the back 'Water resistant to 100m' It's like when I purchase a pair of pants. If the product has a claim of Resists wrinkles, that really means It wrinkles, because all fabrics RESIST wrinkling. When it says Wrinkle-free or no ironing then I find it pretty much to be true. But even then... So I interpret the claim of weather resistant to mean It leaks. Obviously the claim on the Pentax website is exaggerated. It reads: Weather, dust and cold resistant The K-7 is weather, dust and cold resistant (to 14° F or -10° C), making it ideal for use in any environment. I know it has umpty-ump seals and so forth, but all cameras are weather, dust and cold resistant because they're solid objects and 99+% of the body is impervious to water.. Water always follows the course of least resistance and typically that is down and off. Electronics and mechanisms tend to keep working UNTIL they are overcome by the temperature. The claim of any environment is the exaggeration. If one goes below -10C, what about that environment, or what about extremely hot conditions? Waterproof and weather resistant are obviously two different things. My 2 cents. Given all that I'd be disappointed in the failure as well, as expectations that were set by the manufacturers claims were not met. Tom On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 3:59 AM, SV Hovland p...@heime.org wrote: I don't think its going to be expensive. My camera started to work again after two days on drying and I used it for a month or two before I sent it in. Pentax confirmed residual of water inside, but I was lucky and no circuit boards or mechanics seemed to be damaged. So it ended up in a small service which shouldn't cost me to much. But I am still surprised about the response I got after all the marketing Pentax has done on its weather resistance. I would believe it could be used in normal autumn weather in Norway, but not so. For those interested: It rained 3-4mm / hour which my K-7 was able to handle for a period of two hours. 3-4mm / hour is perhaps a lot of rain, but still normal where I live. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av AlunFoto [alunf...@gmail.com] Sendt: 14. januar 2010 11:33 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed Sorry to hear, Stig. I should perhaps add that a Canon D-7 succumbed to moisture at the particular landing where I took my photo. Fortunately it came back to life after roughly two days of drying out, but in principle it's a camera with about the same level of weather protection as has the K-7. So maybe I was lucky? At least I was deliberately pushing my luck... Jostein 2010/1/14 SV Hovland p...@heime.org: My K-7 stopped working after two hours in rain and is currently at Pentax for repair which I have to pay myself. I was told by Pentax that it is not meant to withstand normal autumn rain in Norway for two hours. The sealing was meant for withstanding light rain for a short time, I was told. So from now on I have to treat it like its not weather proofed at all. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av Jim King [jamesk8...@mac.com] Sendt: 13. januar 2010 19:25 Til: pdml@pdml.net Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed A great example of K-7/DA* weatherproofing. You ought to send it to Pentax as a candidate for an advertisement. Regards, Jim -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
http://optechusa.com/product/detail/?PRODUCT_ID=73 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
Had the PZ-1 die at a pig roast long ago. It was new and in/out of the moist smoke. Pentax made repairs under warranty. That's my only failure. Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: I've shot alot in the rain snow, mostly from a tripod and I've always protected it as much as possible with a towel or my b-ball cap, never had an issue with any of them - PZ, PZ-1P, MZ-S, *istD, K10D or K20D., 28-80 F, 70-210F, 300 f4.5 FA, 600 FA. I wouldn't consider any device like a camera body (except a Nikonos) or lens to be impervious to damage from moisture. Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Tom C caka...@gmail.com Subject: Re: PESO - Snowproofed I've used my PZ-1p and *ist D NON-WEATHER SEALED cameras in rain and snow conditions numerous times where after shooting I needed to dry the camera with a towel and never had a problem. It would be interesting to know just how long one of these weather-sealed bodies would last in a controlled test. I'm inclined to believe, that the weather resistant claims are more a sales pitch, than a true feature that can be counted on and pressed to any degree. Jostein's camera could very well fail the next time he uses it in exactly the same conditions as it successfully operated in before. Interestingly, my cheapee Timex watch states on the back 'Water resistant to 100m' It's like when I purchase a pair of pants. If the product has a claim of Resists wrinkles, that really means It wrinkles, because all fabrics RESIST wrinkling. When it says Wrinkle-free or no ironing then I find it pretty much to be true. But even then... So I interpret the claim of weather resistant to mean It leaks. Obviously the claim on the Pentax website is exaggerated. It reads: Weather, dust and cold resistant The K-7 is weather, dust and cold resistant (to 14° F or -10° C), making it ideal for use in any environment. I know it has umpty-ump seals and so forth, but all cameras are weather, dust and cold resistant because they're solid objects and 99+% of the body is impervious to water.. Water always follows the course of least resistance and typically that is down and off. Electronics and mechanisms tend to keep working UNTIL they are overcome by the temperature. The claim of any environment is the exaggeration. If one goes below -10C, what about that environment, or what about extremely hot conditions? Waterproof and weather resistant are obviously two different things. My 2 cents. Given all that I'd be disappointed in the failure as well, as expectations that were set by the manufacturers claims were not met. Tom On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 3:59 AM, SV Hovland p...@heime.org wrote: I don't think its going to be expensive. My camera started to work again after two days on drying and I used it for a month or two before I sent it in. Pentax confirmed residual of water inside, but I was lucky and no circuit boards or mechanics seemed to be damaged. So it ended up in a small service which shouldn't cost me to much. But I am still surprised about the response I got after all the marketing Pentax has done on its weather resistance. I would believe it could be used in normal autumn weather in Norway, but not so. For those interested: It rained 3-4mm / hour which my K-7 was able to handle for a period of two hours. 3-4mm / hour is perhaps a lot of rain, but still normal where I live. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av AlunFoto [alunf...@gmail.com] Sendt: 14. januar 2010 11:33 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed Sorry to hear, Stig. I should perhaps add that a Canon D-7 succumbed to moisture at the particular landing where I took my photo. Fortunately it came back to life after roughly two days of drying out, but in principle it's a camera with about the same level of weather protection as has the K-7. So maybe I was lucky? At least I was deliberately pushing my luck... Jostein 2010/1/14 SV Hovland p...@heime.org: My K-7 stopped working after two hours in rain and is currently at Pentax for repair which I have to pay myself. I was told by Pentax that it is not meant to withstand normal autumn rain in Norway for two hours. The sealing was meant for withstanding light rain for a short time, I was told. So from now on I have to treat it like its not weather proofed at all. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av Jim King [jamesk8...@mac.com] Sendt: 13. januar 2010 19:25 Til: pdml@pdml.net Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed A great example of K-7/DA* weatherproofing. You ought to send it to Pentax as a candidate for an advertisement. Regards, Jim -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
AT what I'd call a pretty good price for what it does. Tom On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:36 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: http://optechusa.com/product/detail/?PRODUCT_ID=73 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote: Had the PZ-1 die at a pig roast long ago. snip Wouldn't have happened at a veggie-bbq! ;-) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: The claim of any environment is the exaggeration. If one goes below -10C, what about that environment, or what about extremely hot conditions? As I've mentioned here, I visit Saskatchewan every winter and always try to do a photowalk. I've taken tons of pictures with both my *ist-D and K20 at temperatures like -35°C and never had any trouble. Normally, electronic circuits work just fine at arbitrarily cold temperatures (not necessarily when they get too hot), so I'm wondering if there are mechanical issues that could come into play at very cold temperatures. Otherwise, why would they provide a low-temperature threshold? -T Actually cold can affect electronics just as much as heat can. Semiconductors change behaviour with temperature and can behave unpredictably if their operating range is exceeded in either direction. It's not good if your semiconductors quit semiconducting. The major difference is that cold generally does not have long-term effects on the electronics, while heat can actually damage them permanently. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:43:12 -0800 Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com wrote: As I've mentioned here, I visit Saskatchewan every winter and always try to do a photowalk. I've taken tons of pictures with both my *ist-D and K20 at temperatures like -35°C and never had any trouble. Normally, electronic circuits work just fine at arbitrarily cold temperatures (not necessarily when they get too hot), so I'm wondering if there are mechanical issues that could come into play at very cold temperatures. Otherwise, why would they provide a low-temperature threshold? -T It's not terribly uncommon for aircraft electronics located outside the cabin to fail due to a small crack in a wire. On the ground they operate normally, but up in the air where it is cold they fail due to contraction of the metal, separating the crack. Such problems can be really hard to diagnose. I imagine a camera could experience the same problem. Ira -- Ira Bryant irabry...@sbcglobal.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
Funny, just like humans. If we get too miserably cold or hot, our circuitry starts malfunctioning as well. In general in the cold I find I start doing stupid things, sort of like there's an open circuit, whereas when I'm hot I'm more likely to short-circuit. Tom On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Ira H. Bryant IV irabry...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:43:12 -0800 Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com wrote: As I've mentioned here, I visit Saskatchewan every winter and always try to do a photowalk. I've taken tons of pictures with both my *ist-D and K20 at temperatures like -35°C and never had any trouble. Normally, electronic circuits work just fine at arbitrarily cold temperatures (not necessarily when they get too hot), so I'm wondering if there are mechanical issues that could come into play at very cold temperatures. Otherwise, why would they provide a low-temperature threshold? -T It's not terribly uncommon for aircraft electronics located outside the cabin to fail due to a small crack in a wire. On the ground they operate normally, but up in the air where it is cold they fail due to contraction of the metal, separating the crack. Such problems can be really hard to diagnose. I imagine a camera could experience the same problem. Ira -- Ira Bryant irabry...@sbcglobal.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: PESO - Snowproofed
-Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Ira H. Bryant IV Sent: Friday, 15 January 2010 1:36 PM To: pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: PESO - Snowproofed On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:43:12 -0800 Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com wrote: As I've mentioned here, I visit Saskatchewan every winter and always try to do a photowalk. I've taken tons of pictures with both my *ist-D and K20 at temperatures like -35C and never had any trouble. Normally, electronic circuits work just fine at arbitrarily cold temperatures (not necessarily when they get too hot), so I'm wondering if there are mechanical issues that could come into play at very cold temperatures. Otherwise, why would they provide a low-temperature threshold? -T It's not terribly uncommon for aircraft electronics located outside the cabin to fail due to a small crack in a wire. On the ground they operate normally, but up in the air where it is cold they fail due to contraction of the metal, separating the crack. Such problems can be really hard to diagnose. I imagine a camera could experience the same problem. Ira -- Ira Bryant irabry...@sbcglobal.net I had a similar problem with my car's air-conditioning. A rubber O-ring joint was fine on inspection, but shrank on being subjected to low temperatures, thus breaking the seal. Took four specialist mechanics two days to find. John in Brisbane -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
On 1/14/2010 2:43 PM, Tim Bray wrote:
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Tom Ccaka...@gmail.com wrote:
The claim of any environment is the exaggeration. If one goes below
-10C, what about that environment, or what about extremely hot
conditions?
As I've mentioned here, I visit Saskatchewan every winter and always
try to do a photowalk. I've taken tons of pictures with both my
*ist-D and K20 at temperatures like -35°C and never had any trouble.
Normally, electronic circuits work just fine at arbitrarily cold
temperatures (not necessarily when they get too hot), so I'm wondering
if there are mechanical issues that could come into play at very cold
temperatures. Otherwise, why would they provide a low-temperature
threshold? -T
The battery is really the week link in these cameras at very cold
temperatures. I expect that there wouldn't be enough juice to actuate
the shutter before it was cold enought to actually affect the shutter.
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PESO - Snowproofed
Another tribute to Pentax weather protection. http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/displayimage.php?pos=-226 One K-7 photographed with another K-7. Both cameras worked without a single glitch for the 4-5 hours we were ashore. Nor was there any hiccups after returning to the indoors. Oh, and the Metz performed impeccably too. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
Yes, the camera and lens are sealed, but I fear for the flash...
On 1/13/2010 12:00 PM, AlunFoto wrote:
Another tribute to Pentax weather protection.
http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/displayimage.php?pos=-226
One K-7 photographed with another K-7.
Both cameras worked without a single glitch for the 4-5 hours we were ashore.
Nor was there any hiccups after returning to the indoors.
Oh, and the Metz performed impeccably too.
Jostein
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{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0 Courier
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Re: PESO - Snowproofed
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 12:10 PM, P. J. Alling
webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, the camera and lens are sealed, but I fear for the flash...
If only there were more like you.:-)
Dave
On 1/13/2010 12:00 PM, AlunFoto wrote:
Another tribute to Pentax weather protection.
http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/displayimage.php?pos=-226
One K-7 photographed with another K-7.
Both cameras worked without a single glitch for the 4-5 hours we were
ashore.
Nor was there any hiccups after returning to the indoors.
Oh, and the Metz performed impeccably too.
Jostein
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Re: PESO - Snowproofed
AlunFoto wrote Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:00:54 -0800 Another tribute to Pentax weather protection. http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/displayimage.php?pos=-226 One K-7 photographed with another K-7. Both cameras worked without a single glitch for the 4-5 hours we were ashore. Nor was there any hiccups after returning to the indoors. Oh, and the Metz performed impeccably too. A great example of K-7/DA* weatherproofing. You ought to send it to Pentax as a candidate for an advertisement. Regards, Jim -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
On Jan 13, 2010, at 12:25, Jim King wrote: AlunFoto wrote Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:00:54 -0800 Another tribute to Pentax weather protection. http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/displayimage.php?pos=-226 One K-7 photographed with another K-7. Both cameras worked without a single glitch for the 4-5 hours we were ashore. Nor was there any hiccups after returning to the indoors. Oh, and the Metz performed impeccably too. A great example of K-7/DA* weatherproofing. You ought to send it to Pentax as a candidate for an advertisement. Wonder if they'd mind a non-Pentax (Metz?) flash on the top there... -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
Nice candidate for a Pentax ad if you could get one of those beast to sit up and smile. On Jan 13, 2010, at 09:00 , AlunFoto wrote: Another tribute to Pentax weather protection. http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/displayimage.php?pos=-226 One K-7 photographed with another K-7. Both cameras worked without a single glitch for the 4-5 hours we were ashore. Nor was there any hiccups after returning to the indoors. Joseph McAllister Pentaxian http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 12:30:59PM -0600, Charles Robinson wrote: On Jan 13, 2010, at 12:25, Jim King wrote: AlunFoto wrote Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:00:54 -0800 Another tribute to Pentax weather protection. http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/displayimage.php?pos=-226 One K-7 photographed with another K-7. Both cameras worked without a single glitch for the 4-5 hours we were ashore. Nor was there any hiccups after returning to the indoors. Oh, and the Metz performed impeccably too. A great example of K-7/DA* weatherproofing. You ought to send it to Pentax as a candidate for an advertisement. Wonder if they'd mind a non-Pentax (Metz?) flash on the top there... -Charles That was exactly what I thought (both the suggestion for use as an ad, and the afterthought that it would have been better with an AF 540). Still a pretty impressive testimonial, though. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
In a message dated 1/13/2010 9:00:55 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, alunf...@gmail.com writes: Another tribute to Pentax weather protection. http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/displayimage.php?pos=-226 One K-7 photographed with another K-7. Both cameras worked without a single glitch for the 4-5 hours we were ashore. Nor was there any hiccups after returning to the indoors. Oh, and the Metz performed impeccably too. Jostein That's pretty cool. Marnie aka Doe :-) - We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
Nice endorsement for Metz also. ;) Jack --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: From: Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com Subject: Re: PESO - Snowproofed To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:31 AM Nice candidate for a Pentax ad if you could get one of those beast to sit up and smile. On Jan 13, 2010, at 09:00 , AlunFoto wrote: Another tribute to Pentax weather protection. http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/displayimage.php?pos=-226 One K-7 photographed with another K-7. Both cameras worked without a single glitch for the 4-5 hours we were ashore. Nor was there any hiccups after returning to the indoors. Joseph McAllister Pentaxian http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html --PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
From: Charles Robinson On Jan 13, 2010, at 12:25, Jim King wrote: AlunFoto wrote Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:00:54 -0800 Another tribute to Pentax weather protection. http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/displayimage.php?pos=-226 One K-7 photographed with another K-7. Both cameras worked without a single glitch for the 4-5 hours we were ashore. Nor was there any hiccups after returning to the indoors. Oh, and the Metz performed impeccably too. A great example of K-7/DA* weatherproofing. You ought to send it to Pentax as a candidate for an advertisement. Wonder if they'd mind a non-Pentax (Metz?) flash on the top there... Wouldn't take much PhotoShop to turn it into a Pentax flash. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 12:00 PM, AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote: Another tribute to Pentax weather protection. http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/displayimage.php?pos=-226 One K-7 photographed with another K-7. Both cameras worked without a single glitch for the 4-5 hours we were ashore. Nor was there any hiccups after returning to the indoors. Oh, and the Metz performed impeccably too. Impressive photo! cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - Snowproofed
My K-7 stopped working after two hours in rain and is currently at Pentax for repair which I have to pay myself. I was told by Pentax that it is not meant to withstand normal autumn rain in Norway for two hours. The sealing was meant for withstanding light rain for a short time, I was told. So from now on I have to treat it like its not weather proofed at all. Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] p#229; vegne av Jim King [jamesk8...@mac.com] Sendt: 13. januar 2010 19:25 Til: pdml@pdml.net Emne: Re: PESO - Snowproofed A great example of K-7/DA* weatherproofing. You ought to send it to Pentax as a candidate for an advertisement. Regards, Jim -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
