Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
> Oh, it is possible, but I seriously doubt you were using anything > particularly close to a commonly-available X Server. Probably running > Matrox cards with proprietary X Servers (which would be necessary to > get colour management in X) or possibly a commercial X distribution in > its entirety. I'm primarily speaking about any base Linux distro > running stock X servers. > Maybe so on the proprietary X-server, but regular xorg and xfree86 support color management. About the only thing the OS needs to do is load the VGCT gamma ramp... there are utilities that will do that in X... *with* multiple heads. The other bits of color management are simply providing a means to reference a specific one at the application level. X doesn't support that, but the applications that support color management (like Cinepaint) do. With that, you can soft-proof for you printer on your calibrated monitor, etc. It's tedious, but not a whole lot moreso than just the need to understand profiles and what they do (and *don't*) mean. -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
> As a sometimes Linux user, I agree with Cory re The Gimp. > > Cinepaint does do 16 bit editing but it has that Gimp interface :-(> > That *OLD* Gimp interface. It's got GTK-1.x interface as opposed to the Gimpe 2.x stuff with the newer. Less irritating to use and less clunky. -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:07:35 +1100 "Brian Walters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As a sometimes Linux user, I agree with Cory re The Gimp. > > Cinepaint does do 16 bit editing but it has that Gimp interface :-(> I rather like the interface. The thing you have to understand about the interface. It makes allot more sense when you have multiple work spaces and multiple monitors going. Its moddled off of the old Lightwave interface... most people had a love/hate relationship with the video toaster as well. You loved it or you hated it. > Up until recently you could also do Raw conversion and 16 bit Linux > editing in Lightzone but since the upgrade to version 3 you can only > download a time-limited beta. It seems that version 3 for Linux, when > finally released, won't be free. Well... if its batch processing you need, Imagemagic does do 16bit per channel color. At that point, you can do 16bits per channel editing via web browser. > > > Cheers > > Brian > > ++ > Brian Walters > Western Sydney Australia > http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ > > > > On Dec 29, 2007 4:58 PM, Cory Papenfuss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Even if you start with an 8 bit image, it's best to make it 16 bit > > >> before making any adjustments--that way, you're not clamping values at > > >> each step. The original point was, there's no way to do this in Gimp. > > > > > > There is software that does do it on linux now. I would expect gimp to > > > have it soon. > > > > >As an avid Linux user, I can say that Gimp blows chunks. > > Completely useless for any serious photographic editing. No color more > > than 8 bits, and no color management. > > > >I recently bought an old DTP-92 which works with Argyll color > > management under linux. Hopefully I'll be able to run a full calibrated > > workflow now with Cinepaint, lprof, and Argyll. Since I don't do any more > > editing than RAW conversion with WB, levels, and curves, Cinepaint should > > be adequate. > > > >Linux is *very* immature WRT color management (and thus by > > definition realy photo editing). > > > > -Cory > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:58:11 -0500 (EST) Cory Papenfuss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Even if you start with an 8 bit image, it's best to make it 16 bit > >> before making any adjustments--that way, you're not clamping values at > >> each step. The original point was, there's no way to do this in Gimp. > > > > There is software that does do it on linux now. I would expect gimp to > > have it soon. > > > As an avid Linux user, I can say that Gimp blows chunks. > Completely useless for any serious photographic editing. No color more > than 8 bits, and no color management. > > I recently bought an old DTP-92 which works with Argyll color > management under linux. Hopefully I'll be able to run a full calibrated > workflow now with Cinepaint, lprof, and Argyll. Since I don't do any more > editing than RAW conversion with WB, levels, and curves, Cinepaint should > be adequate. > > Linux is *very* immature WRT color management (and thus by > definition realy photo editing). Not something i have a use for though, I shoot film. I'm not sold on digital. The only thing I use the computer for is review. If I do a print, its all done the old fashioned way. The OS is still light years ahead of windows in filesystem reliability, in I/O performance, and in kernel stability. Really, to have gimp go 16bit, it would just take a handfull of determined and talented coders. IBM is shoving money into the project, if vicariously so, as well as many others. Do some research on their "Open Desktop" platform. Heh, and also, see who provided the systems to IBM for their Open Desktop work stations. :) > -Cory > > -- > > * > * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * > * Electrical Engineering* > * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * > * > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
As a sometimes Linux user, I agree with Cory re The Gimp. Cinepaint does do 16 bit editing but it has that Gimp interface :-(> Up until recently you could also do Raw conversion and 16 bit Linux editing in Lightzone but since the upgrade to version 3 you can only download a time-limited beta. It seems that version 3 for Linux, when finally released, won't be free. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ On Dec 29, 2007 4:58 PM, Cory Papenfuss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Even if you start with an 8 bit image, it's best to make it 16 bit > >> before making any adjustments--that way, you're not clamping values at > >> each step. The original point was, there's no way to do this in Gimp. > > > > There is software that does do it on linux now. I would expect gimp to > > have it soon. > > >As an avid Linux user, I can say that Gimp blows chunks. > Completely useless for any serious photographic editing. No color more > than 8 bits, and no color management. > >I recently bought an old DTP-92 which works with Argyll color > management under linux. Hopefully I'll be able to run a full calibrated > workflow now with Cinepaint, lprof, and Argyll. Since I don't do any more > editing than RAW conversion with WB, levels, and curves, Cinepaint should > be adequate. > >Linux is *very* immature WRT color management (and thus by > definition realy photo editing). > > -Cory -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
>> Even if you start with an 8 bit image, it's best to make it 16 bit >> before making any adjustments--that way, you're not clamping values at >> each step. The original point was, there's no way to do this in Gimp. > > There is software that does do it on linux now. I would expect gimp to have > it soon. > As an avid Linux user, I can say that Gimp blows chunks. Completely useless for any serious photographic editing. No color more than 8 bits, and no color management. I recently bought an old DTP-92 which works with Argyll color management under linux. Hopefully I'll be able to run a full calibrated workflow now with Cinepaint, lprof, and Argyll. Since I don't do any more editing than RAW conversion with WB, levels, and curves, Cinepaint should be adequate. Linux is *very* immature WRT color management (and thus by definition realy photo editing). -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Only if you have a two bit brain... David J Brooks wrote: > On Dec 25, 2007 3:44 AM, Brian Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Quoting William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> >> >>> - Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brian Walters" >>> Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me >>> >>> >>> >>>> Actually, 16 bit editing under Linux is possible using >>>> >>> Cinepaint. >>> >>>> I haven't used it although I'd be prepared to give it a try if I >>>> >>> could >>> >>>> find a way of adequately calibrating my monitor under Linux. The >>>> >>>> brightness/contrast controls on my monitor are next to useless >>>> >>> and the >>> >>>> video card doesn't have Linux drivers that allow calibration of >>>> >>> the >>> >>>> display via the card. Consequently, on my monitor, images in >>>> >>> Linux show >>> >>>> poor detail in the shadows. >>>> >> >>> Kind of defeats the purpose of 16 bit editing, doesn't it? >>> > > If you edit an 8bit jpeg, but have two monitors, is that not a 16 bit > file now.:-) > > Dave > >>> William Robb >>> >>> >>> >> >> Well, yes, it does for me at present. But others might be able to get a >> reasonable monitor calibration under Linux. >> >> >> Cheers >> >> Brian >> >> ++ >> Brian Walters >> Western Sydney Australia >> http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ >> >> -- >> Get a free email address with REAL anti-spam protection. >> http://www.bluebottle.com/tag/1 >> >> >> -- >> >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. >> >> > > > > -- I am personally a member of the Cream of the Illuminati. A union with the Bavarian Illuminati is contemplated. When it is complete the Bavarian Cream Illuminati will rule the world -- Anonymous -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Dec 25, 2007 3:44 AM, Brian Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Quoting William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Brian Walters" > > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > > > > Actually, 16 bit editing under Linux is possible using > > Cinepaint. > > > > > > I haven't used it although I'd be prepared to give it a try if I > > could > > > find a way of adequately calibrating my monitor under Linux. The > > > > > brightness/contrast controls on my monitor are next to useless > > and the > > > video card doesn't have Linux drivers that allow calibration of > > the > > > display via the card. Consequently, on my monitor, images in > > Linux show > > > poor detail in the shadows. > > > > > > Kind of defeats the purpose of 16 bit editing, doesn't it? If you edit an 8bit jpeg, but have two monitors, is that not a 16 bit file now.:-) Dave > > > > William Robb > > > > > > > > Well, yes, it does for me at present. But others might be able to get a > reasonable monitor calibration under Linux. > > > Cheers > > Brian > > ++ > Brian Walters > Western Sydney Australia > http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ > > -- > Get a free email address with REAL anti-spam protection. > http://www.bluebottle.com/tag/1 > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Quoting William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > - Original Message - > From: "Brian Walters" > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > Actually, 16 bit editing under Linux is possible using > Cinepaint. > > > > I haven't used it although I'd be prepared to give it a try if I > could > > find a way of adequately calibrating my monitor under Linux. The > > > brightness/contrast controls on my monitor are next to useless > and the > > video card doesn't have Linux drivers that allow calibration of > the > > display via the card. Consequently, on my monitor, images in > Linux show > > poor detail in the shadows. > > Kind of defeats the purpose of 16 bit editing, doesn't it? > > William Robb > > Well, yes, it does for me at present. But others might be able to get a reasonable monitor calibration under Linux. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ -- Get a free email address with REAL anti-spam protection. http://www.bluebottle.com/tag/1 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
That's no longer the case, Canon's IPF5000 printer offers a straight-to-the-printer 16bit workflow. -Adam On 12/24/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Of course once you're printing, they're all eight bit. The only advantage of > 16 bit is in editing. Editing in 16 bit is, of course, impossible in Linux. > Paul > -- Original message -- > From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > ----- Original Message - > > From: "Juan Buhler" > > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > > > > > >> For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and > > >> repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There > > >> Yet. > > > > > > I do agree with that. Funny that someone who refuses to use a lossy > > > compression format would process his images in an 8-bit program. That > > > point made me smile. > > > > We've tested this at the studio. With the equipment we are using (Noritsu > > digital wet lab), there is little if any visible difference between a print > > made from an 8 bit jpeg and a 16 bit RAW file, presuming that the image > > falls within the range of the jpeg. > > > > William Robb > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > follow > > the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On 12/24/07, Juan Buhler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Dec 23, 2007 3:38 PM, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Debian (which is the distro I suspect you were misspelling) is pretty > > unsuited for desktop use. Nice server OS though. Ubuntu is a better > > choice on the desktop. > > Yep. Ubuntu made my 2000 vintage HP laptop live again. I don't use it > much, but it's nice for watching DVDs from time to time and for guests > to have a way to get online. Yep, I like Ubuntu as a general desktop. > > > > No Linux OS is suitable for a > > professional-grade imaging workstation, and won't be until X acquires > > proper colour management (And there's a decent 16-bit image editor). > > Not to nitpick, but I've been working on cg animated films using Linux > since 1999 or so. On properly calibrated monitors, using commercial > calibration tools (of which I know little--lately at Pixar, the > Systems guys come by a couple of times per month in the morning, > before I even show up, to calibrate my monitor.) So it *is* > technically possible to have proper color management on Linux. Your > point involving Gimp is very valid though, although one could use > Shake or something like that--crazy, I know, but I do have a friend > who uses use Shake for his photography. Oh, it is possible, but I seriously doubt you were using anything particularly close to a commonly-available X Server. Probably running Matrox cards with proprietary X Servers (which would be necessary to get colour management in X) or possibly a commercial X distribution in its entirety. I'm primarily speaking about any base Linux distro running stock X servers. > > > For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and > > repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There > > Yet. > > I do agree with that. Funny that someone who refuses to use a lossy > compression format would process his images in an 8-bit program. That > point made me smile. > Indeed. > j > > -- > Juan Buhler - http://www.jbuhler.com > -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
You're more tolerant than I am, that point nearly made me barf... Juan Buhler wrote: > On Dec 23, 2007 3:38 PM, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Debian (which is the distro I suspect you were misspelling) is pretty >> unsuited for desktop use. Nice server OS though. Ubuntu is a better >> choice on the desktop. >> > > Yep. Ubuntu made my 2000 vintage HP laptop live again. I don't use it > much, but it's nice for watching DVDs from time to time and for guests > to have a way to get online. > > > >> No Linux OS is suitable for a >> professional-grade imaging workstation, and won't be until X acquires >> proper colour management (And there's a decent 16-bit image editor). >> > > Not to nitpick, but I've been working on cg animated films using Linux > since 1999 or so. On properly calibrated monitors, using commercial > calibration tools (of which I know little--lately at Pixar, the > Systems guys come by a couple of times per month in the morning, > before I even show up, to calibrate my monitor.) So it *is* > technically possible to have proper color management on Linux. Your > point involving Gimp is very valid though, although one could use > Shake or something like that--crazy, I know, but I do have a friend > who uses use Shake for his photography. > > >> For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and >> repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There >> Yet. >> > > I do agree with that. Funny that someone who refuses to use a lossy > compression format would process his images in an 8-bit program. That > point made me smile. > > j > > -- I am personally a member of the Cream of the Illuminati. A union with the Bavarian Illuminati is contemplated. When it is complete the Bavarian Cream Illuminati will rule the world -- Anonymous -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
- Original Message - From: "Brian Walters" Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > Actually, 16 bit editing under Linux is possible using Cinepaint. > > I haven't used it although I'd be prepared to give it a try if I could > find a way of adequately calibrating my monitor under Linux. The > brightness/contrast controls on my monitor are next to useless and the > video card doesn't have Linux drivers that allow calibration of the > display via the card. Consequently, on my monitor, images in Linux show > poor detail in the shadows. Kind of defeats the purpose of 16 bit editing, doesn't it? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Dec 25, 2007 8:45 AM, Juan Buhler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > j (who this year got CS3 through a friend of a friend at Adobe--$60!) Mate, the quality of your photos is bad enough without you having to rub this kinda' stuff in. :-) Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Dec 25, 2007 7:38 AM, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Of course, to paranoid-neurotic "compression is for losers" types, > whether you can *see* any difference is irrelevant. Speaking of which. Having set up my first ever killfile filter I'm quite enjoying the peace & quiet. Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Actually, 16 bit editing under Linux is possible using Cinepaint. I haven't used it although I'd be prepared to give it a try if I could find a way of adequately calibrating my monitor under Linux. The brightness/contrast controls on my monitor are next to useless and the video card doesn't have Linux drivers that allow calibration of the display via the card. Consequently, on my monitor, images in Linux show poor detail in the shadows. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > Of course once you're printing, they're all eight bit. The only > advantage of 16 bit is in editing. Editing in 16 bit is, of course, > impossible in Linux. > Paul -- Get a free email address with REAL anti-spam protection. http://www.bluebottle.com/tag/1 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Dec 24, 2007 1:43 PM, P. J. Alling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Notice that he didn't say you weren't a dickhead... Yes. Dave > > David J Brooks wrote: > > On Dec 22, 2007 4:50 PM, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> Don't worry Dave, you can't totally convert a universal affirmative. In > >> other words: Just because all dickheads are poor spellers doesn't mean > >> that all poor spellers are dickheads. :) > >> > > > > Now i feel better.:-) > > > > Dave > > > >> > >> > >> -- > >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> PDML@pdml.net > >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > >> follow the directions. > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > I am personally a member of the Cream of the Illuminati. > A union with the Bavarian Illuminati is contemplated. > When it is complete the Bavarian Cream Illuminati will rule the world > -- Anonymous > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:45:51 -0800 "Juan Buhler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Right. As others pointed out, chances are that your jpegs are pretty > good to begin with--ie, little or no adjustments are necessary before > printing. If you were to do a lot of levels/curves stuff, plus maybe > some dodging/burning, you'd want to have all 16 bits per channel. > > Even if you start with an 8 bit image, it's best to make it 16 bit > before making any adjustments--that way, you're not clamping values at > each step. The original point was, there's no way to do this in Gimp. There is software that does do it on linux now. I would expect gimp to have it soon. > j (who this year got CS3 through a friend of a friend at Adobe--$60!) > > > On Dec 24, 2007 1:41 PM, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Juan Buhler" > > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > > > > > >> For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and > > >> repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There > > >> Yet. > > > > > > I do agree with that. Funny that someone who refuses to use a lossy > > > compression format would process his images in an 8-bit program. That > > > point made me smile. > > > > We've tested this at the studio. With the equipment we are using (Noritsu > > digital wet lab), there is little if any visible difference between a print > > made from an 8 bit jpeg and a 16 bit RAW file, presuming that the image > > falls within the range of the jpeg. > > > > William Robb > > > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > follow the directions. > > > > > > -- > Juan Buhler - http://www.jbuhler.com > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Right. As others pointed out, chances are that your jpegs are pretty good to begin with--ie, little or no adjustments are necessary before printing. If you were to do a lot of levels/curves stuff, plus maybe some dodging/burning, you'd want to have all 16 bits per channel. Even if you start with an 8 bit image, it's best to make it 16 bit before making any adjustments--that way, you're not clamping values at each step. The original point was, there's no way to do this in Gimp. j (who this year got CS3 through a friend of a friend at Adobe--$60!) On Dec 24, 2007 1:41 PM, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "Juan Buhler" > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > >> For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and > >> repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There > >> Yet. > > > > I do agree with that. Funny that someone who refuses to use a lossy > > compression format would process his images in an 8-bit program. That > > point made me smile. > > We've tested this at the studio. With the equipment we are using (Noritsu > digital wet lab), there is little if any visible difference between a print > made from an 8 bit jpeg and a 16 bit RAW file, presuming that the image > falls within the range of the jpeg. > > William Robb > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Juan Buhler - http://www.jbuhler.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
-- Original message -- From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > - Original Message - > From: "Juan Buhler" > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > >> For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and > >> repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There > >> Yet. > > > > I do agree with that. Funny that someone who refuses to use a lossy > > compression format would process his images in an 8-bit program. That > > point made me smile. > > We've tested this at the studio. With the equipment we are using (Noritsu > digital wet lab), there is little if any visible difference between a print > made from an 8 bit jpeg and a 16 bit RAW file, presuming that the image > falls within the range of the jpeg. > > William Robb > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Of course once you're printing, they're all eight bit. The only advantage of 16 bit is in editing. Editing in 16 bit is, of course, impossible in Linux. Paul -- Original message -- From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > - Original Message - > From: "Juan Buhler" > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > >> For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and > >> repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There > >> Yet. > > > > I do agree with that. Funny that someone who refuses to use a lossy > > compression format would process his images in an 8-bit program. That > > point made me smile. > > We've tested this at the studio. With the equipment we are using (Noritsu > digital wet lab), there is little if any visible difference between a print > made from an 8 bit jpeg and a 16 bit RAW file, presuming that the image > falls within the range of the jpeg. > > William Robb > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
William Robb wrote: >From: "Juan Buhler" > >>> For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and >>> repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There >>> Yet. >> >> I do agree with that. Funny that someone who refuses to use a lossy >> compression format would process his images in an 8-bit program. That >> point made me smile. > >We've tested this at the studio. With the equipment we are using (Noritsu >digital wet lab), there is little if any visible difference between a print >made from an 8 bit jpeg and a 16 bit RAW file, presuming that the image >falls within the range of the jpeg. That's not surprising in a studio situation -- assuming the lighting is set up properly, and I have no doubt that it is, in your case. The advantages of Raw come into play in situations with extremes of exposure latitude, when the difference between the shadows and highlights is greater than an 8-bit color channel can cover. And when 1 or two channels are clipped, as can happen in extreme outdoor situations, Raw can be a lifesaver. Of course, to paranoid-neurotic "compression is for losers" types, whether you can *see* any difference is irrelevant. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:57:19 -0800 "Juan Buhler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Dec 23, 2007 3:38 PM, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Debian (which is the distro I suspect you were misspelling) is pretty > > unsuited for desktop use. Nice server OS though. Ubuntu is a better > > choice on the desktop. > > Yep. Ubuntu made my 2000 vintage HP laptop live again. I don't use it > much, but it's nice for watching DVDs from time to time and for guests > to have a way to get online. > > > > No Linux OS is suitable for a > > professional-grade imaging workstation, and won't be until X acquires > > proper colour management (And there's a decent 16-bit image editor). > > Not to nitpick, but I've been working on cg animated films using Linux > since 1999 or so. On properly calibrated monitors, using commercial > calibration tools (of which I know little--lately at Pixar, the > Systems guys come by a couple of times per month in the morning, > before I even show up, to calibrate my monitor.) So it *is* > technically possible to have proper color management on Linux. Your > point involving Gimp is very valid though, although one could use > Shake or something like that--crazy, I know, but I do have a friend > who uses use Shake for his photography. > > > For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and > > repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There > > Yet. > > I do agree with that. Funny that someone who refuses to use a lossy > compression format would process his images in an 8-bit program. That > point made me smile. ? 8bit? its 32bit bub. > j > > -- > Juan Buhler - http://www.jbuhler.com > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
- Original Message - From: "Juan Buhler" Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me >> For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and >> repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There >> Yet. > > I do agree with that. Funny that someone who refuses to use a lossy > compression format would process his images in an 8-bit program. That > point made me smile. We've tested this at the studio. With the equipment we are using (Noritsu digital wet lab), there is little if any visible difference between a print made from an 8 bit jpeg and a 16 bit RAW file, presuming that the image falls within the range of the jpeg. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Dec 23, 2007 3:38 PM, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Debian (which is the distro I suspect you were misspelling) is pretty > unsuited for desktop use. Nice server OS though. Ubuntu is a better > choice on the desktop. Yep. Ubuntu made my 2000 vintage HP laptop live again. I don't use it much, but it's nice for watching DVDs from time to time and for guests to have a way to get online. > No Linux OS is suitable for a > professional-grade imaging workstation, and won't be until X acquires > proper colour management (And there's a decent 16-bit image editor). Not to nitpick, but I've been working on cg animated films using Linux since 1999 or so. On properly calibrated monitors, using commercial calibration tools (of which I know little--lately at Pixar, the Systems guys come by a couple of times per month in the morning, before I even show up, to calibrate my monitor.) So it *is* technically possible to have proper color management on Linux. Your point involving Gimp is very valid though, although one could use Shake or something like that--crazy, I know, but I do have a friend who uses use Shake for his photography. > For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and > repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There > Yet. I do agree with that. Funny that someone who refuses to use a lossy compression format would process his images in an 8-bit program. That point made me smile. j -- Juan Buhler - http://www.jbuhler.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Notice that he didn't say you weren't a dickhead... David J Brooks wrote: > On Dec 22, 2007 4:50 PM, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Don't worry Dave, you can't totally convert a universal affirmative. In >> other words: Just because all dickheads are poor spellers doesn't mean >> that all poor spellers are dickheads. :) >> > > Now i feel better.:-) > > Dave > >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. >> >> > > > > -- I am personally a member of the Cream of the Illuminati. A union with the Bavarian Illuminati is contemplated. When it is complete the Bavarian Cream Illuminati will rule the world -- Anonymous -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Dec 22, 2007 4:50 PM, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Don't worry Dave, you can't totally convert a universal affirmative. In > other words: Just because all dickheads are poor spellers doesn't mean > that all poor spellers are dickheads. :) Now i feel better.:-) Dave > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 08:34:17 + Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 23/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: > > >HAHA invite me and some freinds along, we'll make it a gang rape. > > Now that is simply crude. > > Killfiled. Good, no use having freinds that can't take a joke. The last thing i want to do is talk to anyone that white. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On 23/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: >HAHA invite me and some freinds along, we'll make it a gang rape. Now that is simply crude. Killfiled. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On 12/23/07, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "Adam Maas" > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > Yes, you can turn User Account Controls off. It's what causes those > > warnings, and is the first thing I turn off on a Vista machine. It can > > be accessed via the User Accounts control panel (In Classic View, I'm > > not sure which it comes under on the idiot view default for Control > > panel in Vista) > > Thanks Adam. Sadly, the guy who owns the studio is in the habit of buying > whatever Office Depot is getting rid of, and at the moment, Vista seems to > be what they want to sell. > I've almost got him talked into buying custom builds, based on the > performance difference between what he just bought and what I just bought > for my own use. > Granted, what I bought was probably 3 times more money > > Thanks for not suggesting installing another OS, though personally I'd wipe > Vista and install XP Pro instead. > I have done enough research to know that Linux won't do the job, I'm not > interested in learning a new OS anyway, and whatever we use absolutely has > to support PhotoShop, which Im pretty sure means either MS or Mac. > Unfortunately, around here, Mac offers really poor user support, and less > than stellar bang for the buck. > > William Robb > With a little work, Vista can be turned into something that's at least comparable to XP, with a few major advantages (the UI is better, particularly Explorer). The big problems with it compared to XP are certain enforced brain damage with default options, and the crippled media playback system (the only way to get proper HD playback on vista is to pirate the content, going legal results in crippled output). -Adam Who's quite happy with his Vista systems, but also is running very non-standard configs. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
- Original Message - From: "Adam Maas" Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > Yes, you can turn User Account Controls off. It's what causes those > warnings, and is the first thing I turn off on a Vista machine. It can > be accessed via the User Accounts control panel (In Classic View, I'm > not sure which it comes under on the idiot view default for Control > panel in Vista) Thanks Adam. Sadly, the guy who owns the studio is in the habit of buying whatever Office Depot is getting rid of, and at the moment, Vista seems to be what they want to sell. I've almost got him talked into buying custom builds, based on the performance difference between what he just bought and what I just bought for my own use. Granted, what I bought was probably 3 times more money Thanks for not suggesting installing another OS, though personally I'd wipe Vista and install XP Pro instead. I have done enough research to know that Linux won't do the job, I'm not interested in learning a new OS anyway, and whatever we use absolutely has to support PhotoShop, which Im pretty sure means either MS or Mac. Unfortunately, around here, Mac offers really poor user support, and less than stellar bang for the buck. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
You'd get something crusty and then something else would fall off... Cotty wrote: > On 23/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: > > >> fuck apple >> > > > Believe me, if I could, I would. > > -- I am personally a member of the Cream of the Illuminati. A union with the Bavarian Illuminati is contemplated. When it is complete the Bavarian Cream Illuminati will rule the world -- Anonymous -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:38:07 -0500 "Adam Maas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 12/23/07, Polyhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:28:02 -0600 > > "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message - > > > From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" > > > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think Microsoft is doing a great job of that themselves with the > > > > Vista release. ;-) > > > > > > Talking about that. > > > Is there any way of configuring Vista to not treat the user like they have > > > the brains of a 3 year old polyheaded moron? > > > > wipe it, install debain, should fix it right up. > > > > Debian (which is the distro I suspect you were misspelling) is pretty > unsuited for desktop use. Nice server OS though. Ubuntu is a better > choice on the desktop. No Linux OS is suitable for a > professional-grade imaging workstation, and won't be until X acquires > proper colour management (And there's a decent 16-bit image editor). > For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and > repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There > Yet. Your on crack. Linux will work fine, and debian is a fine desktop os. Ubuntu is just rebadged debs anyway. Myself i prefer gentoo, but people don't seem to be able to use it. > -Adam > Been running Linux since Kernel 0.96. Good server OS. passable general > purpose OS. Useless as a serious editing platform. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Thanks Adam. It's nice to have people here on the PDML who know what they're talking about. From among the consensus of the mebers here, we pretty much have it covered. That tends to make it difficult for know nothings to be truly disruptive. Paul -- Original message -- From: "Adam Maas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On 12/23/07, Polyhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:28:02 -0600 > > "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" > > > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think Microsoft is doing a great job of that themselves with the > > > > Vista release. ;-) > > > > > > Talking about that. > > > Is there any way of configuring Vista to not treat the user like they have > > > the brains of a 3 year old polyheaded moron? > > > > wipe it, install debain, should fix it right up. > > > > Debian (which is the distro I suspect you were misspelling) is pretty > unsuited for desktop use. Nice server OS though. Ubuntu is a better > choice on the desktop. No Linux OS is suitable for a > professional-grade imaging workstation, and won't be until X acquires > proper colour management (And there's a decent 16-bit image editor). > For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and > repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There > Yet. > > -Adam > Been running Linux since Kernel 0.96. Good server OS. passable general > purpose OS. Useless as a serious editing platform. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:45:57 + Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 23/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: > > >fuck apple > > > Believe me, if I could, I would. HAHA invite me and some freinds along, we'll make it a gang rape. > -- > > > Cheers, > Cotty > > > ___/\__ > || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche > ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com > _ > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On 12/23/07, Polyhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:28:02 -0600 > "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" > > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > > > > > > > > > I think Microsoft is doing a great job of that themselves with the > > > Vista release. ;-) > > > > Talking about that. > > Is there any way of configuring Vista to not treat the user like they have > > the brains of a 3 year old polyheaded moron? > > wipe it, install debain, should fix it right up. > Debian (which is the distro I suspect you were misspelling) is pretty unsuited for desktop use. Nice server OS though. Ubuntu is a better choice on the desktop. No Linux OS is suitable for a professional-grade imaging workstation, and won't be until X acquires proper colour management (And there's a decent 16-bit image editor). For those of us who want actual control over their workflow, and repeatable results from multiple printing options, Linux is Not There Yet. -Adam Been running Linux since Kernel 0.96. Good server OS. passable general purpose OS. Useless as a serious editing platform. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Yes, you can turn User Account Controls off. It's what causes those warnings, and is the first thing I turn off on a Vista machine. It can be accessed via the User Accounts control panel (In Classic View, I'm not sure which it comes under on the idiot view default for Control panel in Vista) -Adam On 12/23/07, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > > > > I think Microsoft is doing a great job of that themselves with the > > Vista release. ;-) > > Talking about that. > Is there any way of configuring Vista to not treat the user like they have > the brains of a 3 year old polyheaded moron? > I was trying to get a Vista machine running on our network a couple of days > ago (I eventually succeeded), but every step of the way I was informed that > continuing down the path I had chosen would have dire consequenses, and did > I really want to cause worldwide strife? > I realize that MS has pretty much been forced into over the top security, > but surely there must be a way to shut that part off and get the machine to > treat you like an adult. > > William Robb > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: OT: The modern world confuses me
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Cotty > Sent: 23 December 2007 22:46 > To: pentax list > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > On 23/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: > > >fuck apple > > > Believe me, if I could, I would. > start with melons and work your way towards the woodier fruits. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:28:02 -0600 "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > > > > I think Microsoft is doing a great job of that themselves with the > > Vista release. ;-) > > Talking about that. > Is there any way of configuring Vista to not treat the user like they have > the brains of a 3 year old polyheaded moron? wipe it, install debain, should fix it right up. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
- Original Message - From: "Cotty" Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > Believe me, if I could, I would. First you have to core the thing. WW -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On 23/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: >fuck apple Believe me, if I could, I would. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:19:20 -0500 Scott Loveless <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Cotty wrote: > > On 22/12/07, Polyhead, apparently very discombobulated, unleashed: > > > >> In 2002 I was working with a company called genesi on their then new > >> Pegasus board. It was a standard MATX form PPC board with an open > >> firmware system. During benchmarking, we found that our 500mhz g3 > >> machine was 30% faster than apples g3 machines, all of them, and on top > >> of that, ours sold new for the half the price of a used g3 machine! > >> Apple boards are of poor design, with poor performing north bridges and > >> a questionable dma controller. The pci bus is high in latency, so high, > >> you can loose 10% of your performance just by using a pci card of any > >> sort in one. > > > > That's all very nice but what was the tea like? > > > > I don't know anything about benchmarking and boards, I'm a cameraman. > > All I know is that the Apple stuff seems to work okay, and I can afford > > it, so I'm a happy (if lunatic) bunny. > > It's all bullshit, Cotty. If lollyhead was actually employed by Genesi > back in 2002, he wouldn't have just made a really stupid mistake in his > post. Spelling errors of that nature, especially with people who worked > on the project, simply would not occur. I seriously doubt lollyhead is > much more than 14 or 15. Had he actually experienced what Genesi and > bPlan did to their contractors, he wouldn't be bashing Apple quite so > much. He's a name dropping nincompoop. Nothing more. try 29. And you think i'm bad, heh, deal with Neko sometime. And which contractors would that be? IBM, they are STILL working with IBM and Freescale. Still not sure if I'm sold on the Efika. > > > >> I'll also never forgive apple for what they did to the clones, greedy > >> bastards. > > Whatever. > > > -- > Scott Loveless > http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:21:10 -0800 Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Dec 23, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Cory Papenfuss wrote: > > Not all PCs are junk. If one is handy, spec'ing out a machine and > > building it from quality components can result in a machine that has > > better performance than anything from Apple. Lots of effort, and > > you lose > > the best part of MacOS (shit just *working*!). > > I agree with you there ... they're not all junk. The problem is that > the vast majority of the clientele who promote the hackintosh > nonsense want the benefit of Mac OS X to run on their $299 piece of > junk hardware. They'd be much better off getting a life, buying a > computer that works in the first place, and stop being idiot > cheapskate semi-nerds. Like that Polyhead jackass. Gee, my machine works the way I want. Poor me. > > My tinfoil-hat part of me hopes they figure a way to leverage > > the hardware-agnostic ability of MacOS to smash the steaming pile > > of shit > > that is Windows. > > I think Microsoft is doing a great job of that themselves with the > Vista release. ;-) > > Godfrey > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
- Original Message - From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > I think Microsoft is doing a great job of that themselves with the > Vista release. ;-) Talking about that. Is there any way of configuring Vista to not treat the user like they have the brains of a 3 year old polyheaded moron? I was trying to get a Vista machine running on our network a couple of days ago (I eventually succeeded), but every step of the way I was informed that continuing down the path I had chosen would have dire consequenses, and did I really want to cause worldwide strife? I realize that MS has pretty much been forced into over the top security, but surely there must be a way to shut that part off and get the machine to treat you like an adult. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
John, I didn't say it did. I did say "they must be doing something right", which you carefully elided in your quote. G On Dec 23, 2007, at 12:28 PM, John Francis wrote: > Success in the marketplace has very little to do with product quality. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Cotty wrote: > On 22/12/07, Polyhead, apparently very discombobulated, unleashed: > >> In 2002 I was working with a company called genesi on their then new >> Pegasus board. It was a standard MATX form PPC board with an open >> firmware system. During benchmarking, we found that our 500mhz g3 >> machine was 30% faster than apples g3 machines, all of them, and on top >> of that, ours sold new for the half the price of a used g3 machine! >> Apple boards are of poor design, with poor performing north bridges and >> a questionable dma controller. The pci bus is high in latency, so high, >> you can loose 10% of your performance just by using a pci card of any >> sort in one. > > That's all very nice but what was the tea like? > > I don't know anything about benchmarking and boards, I'm a cameraman. > All I know is that the Apple stuff seems to work okay, and I can afford > it, so I'm a happy (if lunatic) bunny. It's all bullshit, Cotty. If lollyhead was actually employed by Genesi back in 2002, he wouldn't have just made a really stupid mistake in his post. Spelling errors of that nature, especially with people who worked on the project, simply would not occur. I seriously doubt lollyhead is much more than 14 or 15. Had he actually experienced what Genesi and bPlan did to their contractors, he wouldn't be bashing Apple quite so much. He's a name dropping nincompoop. Nothing more. > >> I'll also never forgive apple for what they did to the clones, greedy >> bastards. Whatever. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Dec 23, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Cory Papenfuss wrote: > Not all PCs are junk. If one is handy, spec'ing out a machine and > building it from quality components can result in a machine that has > better performance than anything from Apple. Lots of effort, and > you lose > the best part of MacOS (shit just *working*!). I agree with you there ... they're not all junk. The problem is that the vast majority of the clientele who promote the hackintosh nonsense want the benefit of Mac OS X to run on their $299 piece of junk hardware. They'd be much better off getting a life, buying a computer that works in the first place, and stop being idiot cheapskate semi-nerds. Like that Polyhead jackass. > My tinfoil-hat part of me hopes they figure a way to leverage > the hardware-agnostic ability of MacOS to smash the steaming pile > of shit > that is Windows. I think Microsoft is doing a great job of that themselves with the Vista release. ;-) Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Go die of testicular cancer, you halfwit. G On Dec 23, 2007, at 11:54 AM, Polyhead wrote: [nothing of any consequence] -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Cotty wrote: > I freely admit to being an idiot Mark! (I know it's quoted out of context. But hell it's fun!) Cotty wrote: > On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > > >> I'll get a Mac. They're designed for idiots. >> > > I freely admit to being an idiot with computers!! > > -- I am personally a member of the Cream of the Illuminati. A union with the Bavarian Illuminati is contemplated. When it is complete the Bavarian Cream Illuminati will rule the world -- Anonymous -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Actually the first attempts were in the middle ages. See how well they've done. graywolf wrote: > You're just retro, Dave. Spelling wasn't standardized until 1850 or so. > > Graywolf > Website: http://www.graywolfphoto.com > Blog:http://www.graywolfphoto.com/journal/ > --- > > David J Brooks wrote: > >> On Dec 22, 2007 9:34 AM, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> Sorry Dave. I know you're not one of those folks, just a poor speller. >>> I skipped reading and spelling, but they made me go back and learn to read. >>> For spelling, I was lost until computers and spell checker. >>> (Ever use a thesaurus to find links back to what you can't spell?) >>> >> Write on Dave.:-) >> >> BTW i'm still giving classes this weak. >> >> Dave >> >>> You know when your a real man and write all your own code in machine >>> language, there just isn't time to write a spell checker. >>> >>> Regards, Bob S. >>> >>> >>> On Dec 22, 2007 8:12 AM, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Please don't paint the poor spellers among us (me included) with the same tainted brush as those jokers. Cheers, Dave On Dec 22, 2007 10:51 PM, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No spell checker when you're a Luddite... > > > On Dec 22, 2007 6:12 AM, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Great. JCO's been carted off to a long-term convalescent home only to >> be replaced by some other self-righteous dickhead. >> >> Why is it that none of these people can ever spell properly? >> >> -- >> Bob >> >> >> >>> Choose to use buggy software, choose to use non standards >>> compleint software, and get what you deserve. >>> >>> On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? > Yeah Bob- come on man - wake up. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >>> >>> >> >> > > -- I am personally a member of the Cream of the Illuminati. A union with the Bavarian Illuminati is contemplated. When it is complete the Bavarian Cream Illuminati will rule the world -- Anonymous -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:19:59 -0500 "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well he has a point. I don't know how to help you I generally avoid RSS > feeds. Is there a possibility that you have a firewall enabled between > you device and the source? I think that may stop the RSS cold if it's > incorrectly configured. Well, the problem is IE7 does not handle XML correctly, never did. Some websites pandered to its brokeness, but most have now by this time, long given up on IE7. > Bob W wrote: > > Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? > > > > -- > > Bob > > > >> The simplest fix for allot of issues is to not use IE. > >> You'll fix more than piss poor way it handles rss feeds. > >> > >> Give yourself a break, and go download firefox. > >> http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/ > >> You'll solve IE7's massive security problems, you'll avoid > >> IE7's broken way of handling most websites. And in time, you > >> can learn to avoid M$ all together. > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > I am personally a member of the Cream of the Illuminati. > A union with the Bavarian Illuminati is contemplated. > When it is complete the Bavarian Cream Illuminati will rule the world > -- Anonymous > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Well he has a point. I don't know how to help you I generally avoid RSS feeds. Is there a possibility that you have a firewall enabled between you device and the source? I think that may stop the RSS cold if it's incorrectly configured. Bob W wrote: > Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? > > -- > Bob > >> The simplest fix for allot of issues is to not use IE. >> You'll fix more than piss poor way it handles rss feeds. >> >> Give yourself a break, and go download firefox. >> http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/ >> You'll solve IE7's massive security problems, you'll avoid >> IE7's broken way of handling most websites. And in time, you >> can learn to avoid M$ all together. >> >> > > > -- I am personally a member of the Cream of the Illuminati. A union with the Bavarian Illuminati is contemplated. When it is complete the Bavarian Cream Illuminati will rule the world -- Anonymous -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sun, Dec 23, 2007 at 09:00:16AM -0800, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: > > The subject of OS licensing has a long and bitterly fought history at > Apple. I won't articulate my position on it as it doesn't matter at > all (of course I have an opinion...), but when all is said and done, > they must be doing something right to have gone from less than 6 days > of operating capital and $4.32 a share at the bottom in 1997 to > having $5 billion plus cash reserve and a thrice-split stock price at > $193+ in 10 years. Success in the marketplace has very little to do with product quality. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Hey, wait a minute. JCO had a valid excuse, he was old, and flew off the handle easily... Bob W wrote: > Great. JCO's been carted off to a long-term convalescent home only to > be replaced by some other self-righteous dickhead. > > Why is it that none of these people can ever spell properly? > > -- > Bob > > > >> Choose to use buggy software, choose to use non standards >> compleint software, and get what you deserve. >> >> >>> On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: >>> >>> Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? >>> Yeah Bob- come on man - wake up. >>> >>> > > > -- I am personally a member of the Cream of the Illuminati. A union with the Bavarian Illuminati is contemplated. When it is complete the Bavarian Cream Illuminati will rule the world -- Anonymous -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
> Apple hardware today is the best it's ever been and a good value for > dollar. The fact that you can use it to run three operating systems > (Mac OS X, Linux and Windows), all with screaming performance and > high reliability, makes it unique in todays computer market. Mac OS X > today is a very strong, robust, richly featured operating system, > designed and implemented for at least a twenty year development life. > I basically stopped being a mac person when I started playing with Linux and realized I could have a real OS that performed really well on inexpensive hardware I could assemble myself. I was tired of being jerked around with my powermac (7100) having been promised an updated OS and having it get delayed and ultimately cancelled. When OSX finally came out, I'd moved to generic "white box" PC's. Anymore, I find the proprietary OS's (Windows AND MacOS-X) confining anyway. Having played with the MacOS-X recently, it's definately very nice I really like NeXTStep, and love what it's become. > I see absolutely no point to the "hackintosh" stuff. It was *easy* to > run Mac OS X on generic Intel PC boxes when we were building it ... I > was directly involved in that project from 1999 to 2004, in various > capacities ... and to anyone with good engineering skills it would > not be difficult to backwards engineer it and make it run. But why > buy into substandard hardware and suffer all the crap that buying > cheap-ass PC junk implies? Not all PCs are junk. If one is handy, spec'ing out a machine and building it from quality components can result in a machine that has better performance than anything from Apple. Lots of effort, and you lose the best part of MacOS (shit just *working*!). > > Besides, Apple will fight a commercial effort of this sort tooth and > nail, and they have the financial resources to smash it flat. > > Godfrey > My tinfoil-hat part of me hopes they figure a way to leverage the hardware-agnostic ability of MacOS to smash the steaming pile of shit that is Windows. -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
> I see absolutely no point to the "hackintosh" stuff. It was *easy* to > run Mac OS X on generic Intel PC boxes when we were building it ... I > was directly involved in that project from 1999 to 2004, in various > capacities ... and to anyone with good engineering skills it would > not be difficult to backwards engineer it and make it run. But why > buy into substandard hardware and suffer all the crap that buying > cheap-ass PC junk implies? The problem is the x86 macs are sub standard junk, and the PPC machines aren't any better. The G5, huge failure, very under performing. They sell a hell of allot of them, and its only for the case work. People will eventually realize that OSX is a pretty gui over the top of an obsolete BSD platform, that has had everything that makes unix good taken out. I'm not saying windows or linux either one are any better. Right now, infact, i would say its all pretty much consumer garbage, with quality compleatly ignored. And thats fine, as its all very inexpensive, sve for apple who still want an arm and a leg for it all. > Besides, Apple will fight a commercial effort of this sort tooth and > nail, and they have the financial resources to smash it flat. > > Godfrey > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:53:38 -0500 (EST) Cory Papenfuss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 23 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > The agency I worked at in he eighties had a mix of Macs and Power > > Computing clones. The clones were always problematic, and they > > eventually ended up on the trash heap. it was Apple's idea to license > > the op sys to clones. It didn't work, and they went back to being > > exclusive. Looking at the stock price and the market penetration, I'd > > say it was a very good choice. Paul -- Original message > > -- From: Polyhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:07:06 + > > I was a pretty big mac guy at the time of the clones. As I recall > they primarily killed the clones because they were losing their shirt by > the clones cannibalizing their marketshare. Clones were very > price-competitive with PC's at the time especially on the high-end. > Apple's high-end machines have always been priced very high (and generally > not perform to match the price). They've always made their money on > hardware, not software but their software is what makes them unique. > > As far as the incompatibilities, that's the way PCs in general are > when you don't have control over both the hardware and software. Look at > winders. > > I'm still anxiously watching to see how the Hackintosh stuff pans > out. (running MacOS-X on non-Apple PC's). I'll tell you how it turns out. Once apple gets wind of you being able to run osx on your hardware, they sue you for it, and shut down your website. fuck apple and their shady as hell buisness. > -Cory > > -- > > * > * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * > * Electrical Engineering* > * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * > * > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Dec 23, 2007, at 7:53 AM, Cory Papenfuss wrote: > On Sun, 23 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> The agency I worked at in he eighties had a mix of Macs and Power >> Computing clones. The clones were always problematic, and they >> eventually ended up on the trash heap. it was Apple's idea to license >> the op sys to clones. It didn't work, and they went back to being >> exclusive. Looking at the stock price and the market penetration, I'd >> say it was a very good choice. Paul -- Original message >> -- From: Polyhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:07:06 + > > I was a pretty big mac guy at the time of the clones. As I recall > they primarily killed the clones because they were losing their > shirt by > the clones cannibalizing their marketshare. Clones were very > price-competitive with PC's at the time especially on the high- > end. > Apple's high-end machines have always been priced very high (and > generally > not perform to match the price). They've always made their money on > hardware, not software but their software is what makes them > unique. > > As far as the incompatibilities, that's the way PCs in general are > when you don't have control over both the hardware and software. > Look at > winders. > > I'm still anxiously watching to see how the Hackintosh stuff pans > out. (running MacOS-X on non-Apple PC's). Since I worked at Apple during the period that the OS/hardware licensing program was created and implemented, and worked extensively with both the Apple engineering/support and third-party manufacturer teams involved, I have a perhaps unique and more knowledgeable perspective on these issues than others on this list. Way way way too much to describe it all here... Succinctly: - Some of the third party manufacturers had some very very good designs in mind, none of which ever went to market although prototypes were made and shown. - Most of what did get to market were OK machines, some with very good performance surpassing what Apple was making at the time. But most often they got their price advantage by using inexpensive components and suffered higher failure rates than what Apple was building. Apple, even in those days at its nadir with profitability and survivability sliding down the tubes faster than you can say "Bankrupt!" with only very rare exception built systems with excellent reliability and quality components. (One of the exceptions was the PowerBook 5300 ... an amazing tool to export profit out of the company through warranty repair...) - The biggest issue with the Apple license and deliverables, technically, was that it constrained the 3rd party developers too much to innovate and build anything that was truly innovative and useful. Mac OS versions prior to the existence of Mac OS X was extremely tightly bound to the specifics of the Apple ROM and Motorola ... there was really no good way to do anything much different from what Apple did and make it compatible. - The Apple Mac OS Licensing program was a failure. It did not expand the market share of Mac OS, it did not improve profits to Apple Computer (it has been estimated that every license-based system sold cost Apple Computer $300-400 in lost revenues ... and that's not accounting for the cost derived from cannibalizing Apple sales!), it did not generate good will in the hardware/software vendor development community, and it ended up stranding a whole lot of Apple customers with dead-end machines that failed rapidly and unrepairably. It ended up costing Apple even more money when SJ correctly killed it, paying the license reimbursement and termination penalty fees in full to the licensees. But killing it was the right thing to do. The subject of OS licensing has a long and bitterly fought history at Apple. I won't articulate my position on it as it doesn't matter at all (of course I have an opinion...), but when all is said and done, they must be doing something right to have gone from less than 6 days of operating capital and $4.32 a share at the bottom in 1997 to having $5 billion plus cash reserve and a thrice-split stock price at $193+ in 10 years. Apple hardware today is the best it's ever been and a good value for dollar. The fact that you can use it to run three operating systems (Mac OS X, Linux and Windows), all with screaming performance and high reliability, makes it unique in todays computer market. Mac OS X today is a very strong, robust, richly featured operating system, designed and implemented for at least a twenty year development life. I see absolutely no point to the "hackintosh" stuff. It was *easy* to run Mac OS X on generic Intel PC boxes when we were building it ... I was directly involved in that project from 1999 to 2004, in various capacities ... and to anyone with good engineering skills it would n
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The agency I worked at in he eighties had a mix of Macs and Power > Computing clones. The clones were always problematic, and they > eventually ended up on the trash heap. it was Apple's idea to license > the op sys to clones. It didn't work, and they went back to being > exclusive. Looking at the stock price and the market penetration, I'd > say it was a very good choice. Paul -- Original message > -- From: Polyhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:07:06 + I was a pretty big mac guy at the time of the clones. As I recall they primarily killed the clones because they were losing their shirt by the clones cannibalizing their marketshare. Clones were very price-competitive with PC's at the time especially on the high-end. Apple's high-end machines have always been priced very high (and generally not perform to match the price). They've always made their money on hardware, not software but their software is what makes them unique. As far as the incompatibilities, that's the way PCs in general are when you don't have control over both the hardware and software. Look at winders. I'm still anxiously watching to see how the Hackintosh stuff pans out. (running MacOS-X on non-Apple PC's). -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
I bought a couple of clones for my office - don't remember which variety. I recall a series of hardware and software incompatibilities - finally was able to dump them and go back to genuine Apple. stan On Dec 22, 2007, at 8:46 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The agency I worked at in he eighties had a mix of Macs and Power > Computing clones. The clones were always problematic, and they > eventually ended up on the trash heap. it was Apple's idea to > license the op sys to clones. It didn't work, and they went back to > being exclusive. Looking at the stock price and the market > penetration, I'd say it was a very good choice. > Paul > -- Original message -- > From: Polyhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:07:06 + >> Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> On 22/12/07, Polyhead, apparently very discombobulated, unleashed: >>> In 2002 I was working with a company called genesi on their then new Pegasus board. It was a standard MATX form PPC board with an open firmware system. During benchmarking, we found that our 500mhz g3 machine was 30% faster than apples g3 machines, all of them, and on top of that, ours sold new for the half the price of a used g3 machine! Apple boards are of poor design, with poor performing north bridges and a questionable dma controller. The pci bus is high in latency, so high, you can loose 10% of your performance just by using a pci card of any sort in one. >>> >>> That's all very nice but what was the tea like? >>> >>> I don't know anything about benchmarking and boards, I'm a >>> cameraman. >>> All I know is that the Apple stuff seems to work okay, and I can >>> afford >>> it, so I'm a happy (if lunatic) bunny. >> >> I'm the evil lil bun bun :D >> I'll also never forgive apple for what they did to the clones, greedy bastards. >>> >>> Even during those days, I never would have considered a clone. >>> Maybe an >>> ice cleam clone. >> >> The Power Computing clones were far superior to ANYTHING apple >> ever made. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Cotty >>> >>> >>> ___/\__ >>> || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche >>> ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com >>> _ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly >>> above and follow >> the directions. >> >> >> -- >> Ben 'Polyhead' Smith >> KE7GAL >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >> and follow >> the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
keith_w wrote: > Cotty wrote: > >> On 22/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: >> >> >>> The Power Computing clones were far superior to ANYTHING apple ever made. >>> > > >> The power of recognition is debatable. >> >> To interested parties, a dog turd is far superior to anything Apple ever >> made. >> >> > > Well, to another dog, certainly! > > keith whaley > I har'd to Cotty and double-har'd to Keith. D -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Cotty wrote: > On 22/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: > >> The Power Computing clones were far superior to ANYTHING apple ever made. > The power of recognition is debatable. > > To interested parties, a dog turd is far superior to anything Apple ever made. > Well, to another dog, certainly! keith whaley -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On 22/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: >The Power Computing clones were far superior to ANYTHING apple ever made. The power of recognition is debatable. To interested parties, a dog turd is far superior to anything Apple ever made. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On 22/12/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: >How many computers do you have? I have three and there's 5 in the house. Tragic ain't it. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 22:14:56 -0500 "Adam Maas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 12/22/07, Polyhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:55:47 -0500 > > "Adam Maas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > In 2002 Apple was shipping systems a heck of a lot faster than a > > > 500MHz G3. You also had the advantage of much faster silicon for your > > > north bridges as well, since you were comparing against circa-1999 > > > designs (Plus the fact that the B&W G3 had Apple's worst MB design, > > > non-DMA Firewire and all). > > > > > > And who cares if your board sold for half the price of a used G3. It > > > was a board only, that Used G3 had a whole lot more hardware. Also you > > > > It does not, good luck finding hardware that DOESN'T work on a peg. :) > > Infact, we even put an x86 emulator in the firmware so that ANY agp or pci > > video card worked. > > > > Hmm, the Used Mac comes with case, PSU, Video, HDD's, optical drives, > usually keyboard and mouse as well. That's a lot more than a bare > board. No, they sold completes. > -Adam > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On 12/22/07, Polyhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:55:47 -0500 > "Adam Maas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > In 2002 Apple was shipping systems a heck of a lot faster than a > > 500MHz G3. You also had the advantage of much faster silicon for your > > north bridges as well, since you were comparing against circa-1999 > > designs (Plus the fact that the B&W G3 had Apple's worst MB design, > > non-DMA Firewire and all). > > > > And who cares if your board sold for half the price of a used G3. It > > was a board only, that Used G3 had a whole lot more hardware. Also you > > It does not, good luck finding hardware that DOESN'T work on a peg. :) > Infact, we even put an x86 emulator in the firmware so that ANY agp or pci > video card worked. > Hmm, the Used Mac comes with case, PSU, Video, HDD's, optical drives, usually keyboard and mouse as well. That's a lot more than a bare board. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
The agency I worked at in he eighties had a mix of Macs and Power Computing clones. The clones were always problematic, and they eventually ended up on the trash heap. it was Apple's idea to license the op sys to clones. It didn't work, and they went back to being exclusive. Looking at the stock price and the market penetration, I'd say it was a very good choice. Paul -- Original message -- From: Polyhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:07:06 + > Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 22/12/07, Polyhead, apparently very discombobulated, unleashed: > > > > >In 2002 I was working with a company called genesi on their then new > > >Pegasus board. It was a standard MATX form PPC board with an open > > >firmware system. During benchmarking, we found that our 500mhz g3 > > >machine was 30% faster than apples g3 machines, all of them, and on top > > >of that, ours sold new for the half the price of a used g3 machine! > > >Apple boards are of poor design, with poor performing north bridges and > > >a questionable dma controller. The pci bus is high in latency, so high, > > >you can loose 10% of your performance just by using a pci card of any > > >sort in one. > > > > That's all very nice but what was the tea like? > > > > I don't know anything about benchmarking and boards, I'm a cameraman. > > All I know is that the Apple stuff seems to work okay, and I can afford > > it, so I'm a happy (if lunatic) bunny. > > I'm the evil lil bun bun :D > > > > > > >I'll also never forgive apple for what they did to the clones, greedy > > >bastards. > > > > Even during those days, I never would have considered a clone. Maybe an > > ice cleam clone. > > The Power Computing clones were far superior to ANYTHING apple ever made. > > > > -- > > > > > > Cheers, > > Cotty > > > > > > ___/\__ > > || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche > > ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com > > _ > > > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > follow > the directions. > > > -- > Ben 'Polyhead' Smith > KE7GAL > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:55:47 -0500 "Adam Maas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In 2002 Apple was shipping systems a heck of a lot faster than a > 500MHz G3. You also had the advantage of much faster silicon for your > north bridges as well, since you were comparing against circa-1999 > designs (Plus the fact that the B&W G3 had Apple's worst MB design, > non-DMA Firewire and all). > > And who cares if your board sold for half the price of a used G3. It > was a board only, that Used G3 had a whole lot more hardware. Also you It does not, good luck finding hardware that DOESN'T work on a peg. :) Infact, we even put an x86 emulator in the firmware so that ANY agp or pci video card worked. > could actually FIND a used Apple G3. I looked into the Pegasus back > then. It effectively wasn't available. Bought a B&W G3 instead, which > is happily still running well. Should upgrade the HDD's one of these > days. > > -Adam > > On 12/22/07, Polyhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:28:13 + > > Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> I'll get a Mac. They're designed for idiots. > > > > > > On 22/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: > > > > > > > > > > >Well .. they are, in a way... but uhh... designed for idiots that buy > > > >hype over performance. > > > > > > Not only do I admit to being an idiot, but I also enjoy hype over > > > performance. > > > > > > My iPhone is absolute crap. > > > > > > My MacBook Pro is poor with Final Cut Studio, but oddly enough I get > > > paid to edit video, can't figure that one out. > > > > > > My Powerbook G3 (2000 vintage) is absolute rubbish, lasts only 9 hours > > > on two batteries, but I can hook up with my 3G card in most places in > > > the UK and get my email. > > > > > > I'm really pisspoor in not realising what insane purchasing decisions I > > > have made. > > > > > > I should be flagelated with the business end of a cattle prod. > > > > > > Poly wanna cracker? > > > > In 2002 I was working with a company called genesi on their then new > > Pegasus board. It was a standard MATX form PPC board with an open firmware > > system. During benchmarking, we found that our 500mhz g3 machine was 30% > > faster than apples g3 machines, all of them, and on top of that, ours sold > > new for the half the price of a used g3 machine! Apple boards are of poor > > design, with poor performing north bridges and a questionable dma > > controller. The pci bus is high in latency, so high, you can loose 10% of > > your performance just by using a pci card of any sort in one. > > > > I'll also never forgive apple for what they did to the clones, greedy > > bastards. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Cotty > > > > > > > > > ___/\__ > > > || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche > > > ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > > PDML@pdml.net > > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > > follow the directions. > > > > > > -- > > Ben 'Polyhead' Smith > > KE7GAL > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > follow the directions. > > > > > -- > M. Adam Maas > http://www.mawz.ca > Explorations of the City Around Us. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:07:06 + Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 22/12/07, Polyhead, apparently very discombobulated, unleashed: > > >In 2002 I was working with a company called genesi on their then new > >Pegasus board. It was a standard MATX form PPC board with an open > >firmware system. During benchmarking, we found that our 500mhz g3 > >machine was 30% faster than apples g3 machines, all of them, and on top > >of that, ours sold new for the half the price of a used g3 machine! > >Apple boards are of poor design, with poor performing north bridges and > >a questionable dma controller. The pci bus is high in latency, so high, > >you can loose 10% of your performance just by using a pci card of any > >sort in one. > > That's all very nice but what was the tea like? > > I don't know anything about benchmarking and boards, I'm a cameraman. > All I know is that the Apple stuff seems to work okay, and I can afford > it, so I'm a happy (if lunatic) bunny. I'm the evil lil bun bun :D > > > >I'll also never forgive apple for what they did to the clones, greedy > >bastards. > > Even during those days, I never would have considered a clone. Maybe an > ice cleam clone. The Power Computing clones were far superior to ANYTHING apple ever made. > > -- > > > Cheers, > Cotty > > > ___/\__ > || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche > ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com > _ > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
- Original Message - From: "Cotty" Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > I freely admit to being an idiot with computers!! How many computers do you have? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
In 2002 Apple was shipping systems a heck of a lot faster than a 500MHz G3. You also had the advantage of much faster silicon for your north bridges as well, since you were comparing against circa-1999 designs (Plus the fact that the B&W G3 had Apple's worst MB design, non-DMA Firewire and all). And who cares if your board sold for half the price of a used G3. It was a board only, that Used G3 had a whole lot more hardware. Also you could actually FIND a used Apple G3. I looked into the Pegasus back then. It effectively wasn't available. Bought a B&W G3 instead, which is happily still running well. Should upgrade the HDD's one of these days. -Adam On 12/22/07, Polyhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:28:13 + > Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> I'll get a Mac. They're designed for idiots. > > > > On 22/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: > > > > > > > >Well .. they are, in a way... but uhh... designed for idiots that buy > > >hype over performance. > > > > Not only do I admit to being an idiot, but I also enjoy hype over > > performance. > > > > My iPhone is absolute crap. > > > > My MacBook Pro is poor with Final Cut Studio, but oddly enough I get > > paid to edit video, can't figure that one out. > > > > My Powerbook G3 (2000 vintage) is absolute rubbish, lasts only 9 hours > > on two batteries, but I can hook up with my 3G card in most places in > > the UK and get my email. > > > > I'm really pisspoor in not realising what insane purchasing decisions I > > have made. > > > > I should be flagelated with the business end of a cattle prod. > > > > Poly wanna cracker? > > In 2002 I was working with a company called genesi on their then new Pegasus > board. It was a standard MATX form PPC board with an open firmware system. > During benchmarking, we found that our 500mhz g3 machine was 30% faster than > apples g3 machines, all of them, and on top of that, ours sold new for the > half the price of a used g3 machine! Apple boards are of poor design, with > poor performing north bridges and a questionable dma controller. The pci bus > is high in latency, so high, you can loose 10% of your performance just by > using a pci card of any sort in one. > > I'll also never forgive apple for what they did to the clones, greedy > bastards. > > > > > -- > > > > > > Cheers, > > Cotty > > > > > > ___/\__ > > || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche > > ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com > > _ > > > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > follow the directions. > > > -- > Ben 'Polyhead' Smith > KE7GAL > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
David J Brooks wrote: >On Dec 22, 2007 9:34 AM, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Sorry Dave. I know you're not one of those folks, just a poor speller. >> I skipped reading and spelling, but they made me go back and learn to read. >> For spelling, I was lost until computers and spell checker. >> (Ever use a thesaurus to find links back to what you can't spell?) > >Write on Dave.:-) > >BTW i'm still giving classes this weak. Don't worry Dave, you can't totally convert a universal affirmative. In other words: Just because all dickheads are poor spellers doesn't mean that all poor spellers are dickheads. :) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:28:13 + Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> I'll get a Mac. They're designed for idiots. > > On 22/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: > > > > >Well .. they are, in a way... but uhh... designed for idiots that buy > >hype over performance. > > Not only do I admit to being an idiot, but I also enjoy hype over performance. > > My iPhone is absolute crap. > > My MacBook Pro is poor with Final Cut Studio, but oddly enough I get > paid to edit video, can't figure that one out. > > My Powerbook G3 (2000 vintage) is absolute rubbish, lasts only 9 hours > on two batteries, but I can hook up with my 3G card in most places in > the UK and get my email. > > I'm really pisspoor in not realising what insane purchasing decisions I > have made. > > I should be flagelated with the business end of a cattle prod. > > Poly wanna cracker? In 2002 I was working with a company called genesi on their then new Pegasus board. It was a standard MATX form PPC board with an open firmware system. During benchmarking, we found that our 500mhz g3 machine was 30% faster than apples g3 machines, all of them, and on top of that, ours sold new for the half the price of a used g3 machine! Apple boards are of poor design, with poor performing north bridges and a questionable dma controller. The pci bus is high in latency, so high, you can loose 10% of your performance just by using a pci card of any sort in one. I'll also never forgive apple for what they did to the clones, greedy bastards. > > -- > > > Cheers, > Cotty > > > ___/\__ > || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche > ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com > _ > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On 22/12/07, Polyhead, apparently very discombobulated, unleashed: >In 2002 I was working with a company called genesi on their then new >Pegasus board. It was a standard MATX form PPC board with an open >firmware system. During benchmarking, we found that our 500mhz g3 >machine was 30% faster than apples g3 machines, all of them, and on top >of that, ours sold new for the half the price of a used g3 machine! >Apple boards are of poor design, with poor performing north bridges and >a questionable dma controller. The pci bus is high in latency, so high, >you can loose 10% of your performance just by using a pci card of any >sort in one. That's all very nice but what was the tea like? I don't know anything about benchmarking and boards, I'm a cameraman. All I know is that the Apple stuff seems to work okay, and I can afford it, so I'm a happy (if lunatic) bunny. > >I'll also never forgive apple for what they did to the clones, greedy >bastards. Even during those days, I never would have considered a clone. Maybe an ice cleam clone. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: OT: The modern world confuses me
> I should be flagelated with the business end of a cattle prod. > do they do an iProd? > Poly wanna cracker? > > Pieces of 'ate! Pieces of 'ate! -- Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Cotty > Sent: 22 December 2007 17:28 > To: pentax list > Subject: Re: OT: The modern world confuses me > > > > >> I'll get a Mac. They're designed for idiots. > > On 22/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: > > > > >Well .. they are, in a way... but uhh... designed for idiots that buy > >hype over performance. > > Not only do I admit to being an idiot, but I also enjoy hype > over performance. > > My iPhone is absolute crap. > > My MacBook Pro is poor with Final Cut Studio, but oddly enough I get > paid to edit video, can't figure that one out. > > My Powerbook G3 (2000 vintage) is absolute rubbish, lasts only 9 hours > on two batteries, but I can hook up with my 3G card in most places in > the UK and get my email. > > I'm really pisspoor in not realising what insane purchasing > decisions I > have made. > > I should be flagelated with the business end of a cattle prod. > > Poly wanna cracker? > > > -- > > > Cheers, > Cotty > > > ___/\__ > || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche > ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com > _ > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly > above and follow the directions. > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Dec 23, 2007 2:51 AM, David J Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Dec 22, 2007 12:28 PM, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > I should be flagelated with the business end of a cattle prod. > > I know people who could help you on that. It probably needs to be done just on principal. Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Dec 22, 2007 12:28 PM, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I should be flagelated with the business end of a cattle prod. I know people who could help you on that. Dave > > Poly wanna cracker? > > > -- > > > Cheers, > Cotty > > > ___/\__ > || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche > ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com > _ > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Because you are not 16? Graywolf Website: http://www.graywolfphoto.com Blog:http://www.graywolfphoto.com/journal/ --- Bob W wrote: > Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
You're just retro, Dave. Spelling wasn't standardized until 1850 or so. Graywolf Website: http://www.graywolfphoto.com Blog:http://www.graywolfphoto.com/journal/ --- David J Brooks wrote: > On Dec 22, 2007 9:34 AM, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Sorry Dave. I know you're not one of those folks, just a poor speller. >> I skipped reading and spelling, but they made me go back and learn to read. >> For spelling, I was lost until computers and spell checker. >> (Ever use a thesaurus to find links back to what you can't spell?) > > Write on Dave.:-) > > BTW i'm still giving classes this weak. > > Dave >> You know when your a real man and write all your own code in machine >> language, there just isn't time to write a spell checker. >> >> Regards, Bob S. >> >> >> On Dec 22, 2007 8:12 AM, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Please don't paint the poor spellers among us (me included) with the >>> same tainted brush as those jokers. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> On Dec 22, 2007 10:51 PM, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No spell checker when you're a Luddite... On Dec 22, 2007 6:12 AM, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Great. JCO's been carted off to a long-term convalescent home only to > be replaced by some other self-righteous dickhead. > > Why is it that none of these people can ever spell properly? > > -- > Bob > > >> Choose to use buggy software, choose to use non standards >> compleint software, and get what you deserve. >> >>> On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: >>> Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? >>> Yeah Bob- come on man - wake up. >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >>> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. >> > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On 22/12/07, Doug Franklin, discombobulated, unleashed: >As a self-righteous dickhead, I take offense at that. :-) Damn you beat me to it Doug 8-D -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
>> I'll get a Mac. They're designed for idiots. On 22/12/07, Polyhead, discombobulated, unleashed: > >Well .. they are, in a way... but uhh... designed for idiots that buy >hype over performance. Not only do I admit to being an idiot, but I also enjoy hype over performance. My iPhone is absolute crap. My MacBook Pro is poor with Final Cut Studio, but oddly enough I get paid to edit video, can't figure that one out. My Powerbook G3 (2000 vintage) is absolute rubbish, lasts only 9 hours on two batteries, but I can hook up with my 3G card in most places in the UK and get my email. I'm really pisspoor in not realising what insane purchasing decisions I have made. I should be flagelated with the business end of a cattle prod. Poly wanna cracker? -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: >I'll get a Mac. They're designed for idiots. I freely admit to being an idiot with computers!! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Bob W wrote: > Why is it that none of these people can ever spell properly? As a self-righteous dickhead, I take offense at that. :-) -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Dec 22, 2007 9:34 AM, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sorry Dave. I know you're not one of those folks, just a poor speller. > I skipped reading and spelling, but they made me go back and learn to read. > For spelling, I was lost until computers and spell checker. > (Ever use a thesaurus to find links back to what you can't spell?) Write on Dave.:-) BTW i'm still giving classes this weak. Dave > > You know when your a real man and write all your own code in machine > language, there just isn't time to write a spell checker. > > Regards, Bob S. > > > On Dec 22, 2007 8:12 AM, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Please don't paint the poor spellers among us (me included) with the > > same tainted brush as those jokers. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Dave > > > > > > On Dec 22, 2007 10:51 PM, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > No spell checker when you're a Luddite... > > > > > > > > > On Dec 22, 2007 6:12 AM, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Great. JCO's been carted off to a long-term convalescent home only to > > > > be replaced by some other self-righteous dickhead. > > > > > > > > Why is it that none of these people can ever spell properly? > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > Choose to use buggy software, choose to use non standards > > > > > compleint software, and get what you deserve. > > > > > > > > > > > On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > > > > > > > > > > > > >Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah Bob- come on man - wake up. > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > follow the directions. > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Sorry Dave. I know you're not one of those folks, just a poor speller. I skipped reading and spelling, but they made me go back and learn to read. For spelling, I was lost until computers and spell checker. (Ever use a thesaurus to find links back to what you can't spell?) You know when your a real man and write all your own code in machine language, there just isn't time to write a spell checker. Regards, Bob S. On Dec 22, 2007 8:12 AM, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Please don't paint the poor spellers among us (me included) with the > same tainted brush as those jokers. > > Cheers, > > Dave > > > On Dec 22, 2007 10:51 PM, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > No spell checker when you're a Luddite... > > > > > > On Dec 22, 2007 6:12 AM, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Great. JCO's been carted off to a long-term convalescent home only to > > > be replaced by some other self-righteous dickhead. > > > > > > Why is it that none of these people can ever spell properly? > > > > > > -- > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > Choose to use buggy software, choose to use non standards > > > > compleint software, and get what you deserve. > > > > > > > > > On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > > > > > > > > > > >Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? > > > > > > > > > > Yeah Bob- come on man - wake up. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Please don't paint the poor spellers among us (me included) with the same tainted brush as those jokers. Cheers, Dave On Dec 22, 2007 10:51 PM, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No spell checker when you're a Luddite... > > > On Dec 22, 2007 6:12 AM, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Great. JCO's been carted off to a long-term convalescent home only to > > be replaced by some other self-righteous dickhead. > > > > Why is it that none of these people can ever spell properly? > > > > -- > > Bob > > > > > > > Choose to use buggy software, choose to use non standards > > > compleint software, and get what you deserve. > > > > > > > On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > > > > > > > > >Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? > > > > > > > > Yeah Bob- come on man - wake up. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
No spell checker when you're a Luddite... On Dec 22, 2007 6:12 AM, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Great. JCO's been carted off to a long-term convalescent home only to > be replaced by some other self-righteous dickhead. > > Why is it that none of these people can ever spell properly? > > -- > Bob > > > > Choose to use buggy software, choose to use non standards > > compleint software, and get what you deserve. > > > > > On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > > > > > > >Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? > > > > > > Yeah Bob- come on man - wake up. > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: OT: The modern world confuses me
Great. JCO's been carted off to a long-term convalescent home only to be replaced by some other self-righteous dickhead. Why is it that none of these people can ever spell properly? -- Bob > Choose to use buggy software, choose to use non standards > compleint software, and get what you deserve. > > > On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > > > > >Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? > > > > Yeah Bob- come on man - wake up. > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Dec 22, 2007 8:30 PM, Polyhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Choose to use buggy software, choose to use non standards compleint software, > and get what you deserve. Same can be said about choosing to use non standard web design principals. Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:32:40 - "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > > > > >Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? > > > > Yeah Bob- come on man - wake up. > > > > I'll get a Mac. They're designed for idiots. Well .. they are, in a way... but uhh... designed for idiots that buy hype over performance. > Bob > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
Choose to use buggy software, choose to use non standards compleint software, and get what you deserve. > On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > > >Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? > > Yeah Bob- come on man - wake up. > > -- > > > Cheers, > Cotty > > > ___/\__ > || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche > ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com > _ > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: OT: The modern world confuses me
> > On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > > >Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? > > Yeah Bob- come on man - wake up. > I'll get a Mac. They're designed for idiots. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On 22/12/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: >Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? Yeah Bob- come on man - wake up. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: OT: The modern world confuses me
Gee, thanks, that's really helpful. Why didn't I think of that? -- Bob > > The simplest fix for allot of issues is to not use IE. > You'll fix more than piss poor way it handles rss feeds. > > Give yourself a break, and go download firefox. > http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/ > You'll solve IE7's massive security problems, you'll avoid > IE7's broken way of handling most websites. And in time, you > can learn to avoid M$ all together. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: The modern world confuses me
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:34:30 - "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It was so much simpler when we all had our own orchestra, and a team > of relay runners to bring news of the outside world to our remote > estates. Nowadays it's all RSS feeds and podcasts. > > I gave in to the lure of digital radio, and have bought myself a > portable gadget which combines a DAB digital radio, and an mp3 player. > The idea being that I can listen to radio programmes as they happen, > but also automatically download programmes from the BBC and one or 2 > other stations that are broadcast at inconvenient times. > > I use IE7, which includes a feed reader and I have added several feeds > to the 'Favourites Center' (sp!) - it's very easy to do - and set the > properties to download attached files automatically. For example: > http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/iot/rss.xml. > > However, I don't seem to get any content coming back when I try to > refresh the feed, and there is no error message of any sort - just a > blank page in the browser tab. > > Is anyone else using IE7 for this? If so, how are you getting it to > work? I can't find any useful information about it other than the > basic instructions about what to do. The simplest fix for allot of issues is to not use IE. You'll fix more than piss poor way it handles rss feeds. Give yourself a break, and go download firefox. http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/ You'll solve IE7's massive security problems, you'll avoid IE7's broken way of handling most websites. And in time, you can learn to avoid M$ all together. > I have used other feed readers and they work fine, but I would prefer > to use IE7 because it's convenient and (if I could make it work) easy. > > > Thanks for any suggestions you can offer. > > Regards > Bob > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Ben 'Polyhead' Smith KE7GAL -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
