Re: safety and photography?

[John Sessoms]

From: mike wilson


On 11/06/2011 03:57, Doug Franklin wranted:

> On 2011-06-10 14:21, frank theriault wrote:
>

>>> I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when
>>> working
>>> in urban environments.

>
> I've gotta say that I'm flabbergasted by some of the replies to this
> thread. The number one rule to surviving a fight is to avoid the damned
> thing in the first place. I defy /anyone/, Bruce Lee included, to use
> their man portable weaponry to hold off a flash mob of maybe several
> hundred people. One well armed and psychologically prepared defender
> against a couple of handful of thugs, you've got a chance. A few hundred
> of them, "you're fing vegemite, mate" in the words of one of my
> Aussie friends.
>
> If that sort thing is in the offing, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! What the Hell
> are you people, combat photogs with death wishes? If the problem is
> nearly as bad as portrayed by some of those articles, I'm bloody well
> staying at home, or moving to a different city. I'm probably trying to
> contract having Jersey Barriers installed at the ground-floor entry
> points. Even if it's not 24/7, my luck is that I'd show up just in time
> to be a victim if I lived near that s***.
>
> It doesn't take a huge amount of "tactical acuity" to realize that
> you're f***ing hosed in a one-versus-a-hundred fight, the TV shows and
> movies notwithstanding. You're only chance is that you've lucked into a
> "kill or maim one and the rest chicken out" scenario, or you can get
> them fighting each other while you "take a powder" somewhere else.
>
> I don't wander into certain parts of Atlanta for /exactly/ the same
> reasons I wouldn't wander into certain parts of Fallujah.
>

Jersey Barriers?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_barrier

Hesco barriers would probably work better. They're stackable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesco_bastion



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Re: safety and photography?

[John Sessoms]

From: Doug Franklin


On 2011-06-10 14:21, frank theriault wrote:


>> I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when working
>> in urban environments.


I've gotta say that I'm flabbergasted by some of the replies to this
thread.  The number one rule to surviving a fight is to avoid the damned
thing in the first place.  I defy /anyone/, Bruce Lee included, to use
their man portable weaponry to hold off a flash mob of maybe several
hundred people.  One well armed and psychologically prepared defender
against a couple of handful of thugs, you've got a chance.  A few
hundred of them, "you're fing vegemite, mate" in the words of one of
my Aussie friends.

If that sort thing is in the offing, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!  What the Hell
are you people, combat photogs with death wishes?  If the problem is
nearly as bad as portrayed by some of those articles, I'm bloody well
staying at home, or moving to a different city.  I'm probably trying to
contract having Jersey Barriers installed at the ground-floor entry
points.  Even if it's not 24/7, my luck is that I'd show up just in time
to be a victim if I lived near that s***.

It doesn't take a huge amount of "tactical acuity" to realize that
you're f***ing hosed in a one-versus-a-hundred fight, the TV shows and
movies notwithstanding.  You're only chance is that you've lucked into a
"kill or maim one and the rest chicken out" scenario, or you can get
them fighting each other while you "take a powder" somewhere else.

I don't wander into certain parts of Atlanta for /exactly/ the same
reasons I wouldn't wander into certain parts of Fallujah.


If you see a flash mob coming, definitely go somewhere else. I would.

But if it truly *IS* a flash mob, you might not see it coming in time to 
relocate before the mob begins to coalesce. I ain't planning on holding 
off a flash mob bare handed; I'm only planning on doing whatever I have 
to do to carve a path to the exit.


And if I can't get away, I damn sure intend to take some of 'em with me.

The more likely threat is muggers and thieves deciding they have more 
use for your camera than you do. Same rules apply.



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Re: safety and photography?

[Christine Aguila]

- Original Message - 
From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" 

To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: safety and photography?


Awareness, keeping the equipment all hand and difficult to grab.
Always keep your eyes on what's going on around you.


Yep, that's about the best one can do!  Good advice, Godfrey!  Cheers, 
Christine 



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Re: safety and photography?

[Doug Franklin]

On 2011-06-11 2:20, mike wilson wrote:


Jersey Barriers?


Sorry, that's what we call those big concrete blocks used to build 
temporary walls along the highway.


http://www.americanconcrete.com/commercial/barriers/jersey-barriers.htm

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Re: safety and photography?

[mike wilson]

On 11/06/2011 03:57, Doug Franklin wranted:

On 2011-06-10 14:21, frank theriault wrote:


I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when
working
in urban environments.


I've gotta say that I'm flabbergasted by some of the replies to this
thread. The number one rule to surviving a fight is to avoid the damned
thing in the first place. I defy /anyone/, Bruce Lee included, to use
their man portable weaponry to hold off a flash mob of maybe several
hundred people. One well armed and psychologically prepared defender
against a couple of handful of thugs, you've got a chance. A few hundred
of them, "you're fing vegemite, mate" in the words of one of my
Aussie friends.

If that sort thing is in the offing, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! What the Hell
are you people, combat photogs with death wishes? If the problem is
nearly as bad as portrayed by some of those articles, I'm bloody well
staying at home, or moving to a different city. I'm probably trying to
contract having Jersey Barriers installed at the ground-floor entry
points. Even if it's not 24/7, my luck is that I'd show up just in time
to be a victim if I lived near that s***.

It doesn't take a huge amount of "tactical acuity" to realize that
you're f***ing hosed in a one-versus-a-hundred fight, the TV shows and
movies notwithstanding. You're only chance is that you've lucked into a
"kill or maim one and the rest chicken out" scenario, or you can get
them fighting each other while you "take a powder" somewhere else.

I don't wander into certain parts of Atlanta for /exactly/ the same
reasons I wouldn't wander into certain parts of Fallujah.



Jersey Barriers?

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Re: safety and photography?

[Doug Franklin]

On 2011-06-10 16:45, Ecke PDML wrote:


interesting how fast they switch sides...


In my experience, bullies are insecure little (excuse my language) 
pussies.  They'll "suck any dick" they think can either prevent getting 
a "beating" or promote someone other than themselves "getting a 
beating".  They break easier than horses.


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Re: safety and photography?

[Matthew Hunt]

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 9:57 PM, Doug Franklin
 wrote:

> I've gotta say that I'm flabbergasted by some of the replies to this thread.
>  The number one rule to surviving a fight is to avoid the damned thing in
> the first place.

That's all well and good in the real world, but this is the Internet.

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Re: safety and photography?

[Doug Franklin]

On 2011-06-10 16:34, John Sessoms wrote:

I was bullied up until Junior High School when someone tried to steal my
desert in the lunch room and I stabbed him with a fork.


I was bullied until I took the bully's knife away from him in a fight. 
He pissed and shat himself when he realized what a fool he'd been. 
Lucky for him, I wasn't the pissed-off-old-guy then that I am now.


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Re: safety and photography?

[Doug Franklin]

On 2011-06-10 14:21, frank theriault wrote:


I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when working
in urban environments.


I've gotta say that I'm flabbergasted by some of the replies to this 
thread.  The number one rule to surviving a fight is to avoid the damned 
thing in the first place.  I defy /anyone/, Bruce Lee included, to use 
their man portable weaponry to hold off a flash mob of maybe several 
hundred people.  One well armed and psychologically prepared defender 
against a couple of handful of thugs, you've got a chance.  A few 
hundred of them, "you're fing vegemite, mate" in the words of one of 
my Aussie friends.


If that sort thing is in the offing, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!  What the Hell 
are you people, combat photogs with death wishes?  If the problem is 
nearly as bad as portrayed by some of those articles, I'm bloody well 
staying at home, or moving to a different city.  I'm probably trying to 
contract having Jersey Barriers installed at the ground-floor entry 
points.  Even if it's not 24/7, my luck is that I'd show up just in time 
to be a victim if I lived near that s***.


It doesn't take a huge amount of "tactical acuity" to realize that 
you're f***ing hosed in a one-versus-a-hundred fight, the TV shows and 
movies notwithstanding.  You're only chance is that you've lucked into a 
"kill or maim one and the rest chicken out" scenario, or you can get 
them fighting each other while you "take a powder" somewhere else.


I don't wander into certain parts of Atlanta for /exactly/ the same 
reasons I wouldn't wander into certain parts of Fallujah.


--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)

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Re: safety and photography?

[mike wilson]

On 09/06/2011 20:50, Bob W wrote:


Having said that, I wouldn't carry a gun or knife either, unless I really
knew how to use them and was prepared to do so. It makes far more sense to
learn to defend yourself with whatever is to hand.


Literally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7_dzu4TQDs

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Re: safety and photography?

[Ecke PDML]

2011/6/10 John Sessoms :
>
> I was bullied up until Junior High School when someone tried to steal my
> desert in the lunch room and I stabbed him with a fork.

I was bullied all the way up through 9th grade until I (not willingly,
I was only trying to get him to back off) I pushed one bully into a
glass showcase and he found himself sitting in a nasty pile of shards.
After that they left me alone and one even tried to make friends...
interesting how fast they switch sides...

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Re: safety and photography?

[John Sessoms]

From: Godfrey DiGiorgi


On 6/9/2011 21:50, Bob W wrote:

>>
>> I don't know if you've ever had to deal with bullies, but if you went to a
>> boarding school, as I did, you'd observe quite quickly that the population
>> was divided into bullies, victims and people who stood up for themselves.
>> As
>> long as there were people willing to be victims, there were bullies. But
>> the
>> bullies only ever tried it once on those of us who stood up for ourselves;
>> even if we took a beating they found it wasn't worth their own pain to try
>> again.

A bully tried to take me on when I was a freshman in High School. I
figured I was going to get beaten to a pulp as I was no fighter, but I
wouldn't let him just victimize me. So we went out to the train
station to duke it out. I took off my jacket and glasses. He came at
me like a windmill and struck my head with his wrist. He didn't count
on my thick skull and broke his wrist on it.

I remember pulling on my jacket, suggesting he have it looked at over
in the campus infirmary, and didn't miss my train home. Didn't even
have a bruise. He was in a cast from elbow to hand for six weeks.

No one ever tried to bully me in High School again. I was now one of
the badasses. ]'-)


I was bullied up until Junior High School when someone tried to steal my 
desert in the lunch room and I stabbed him with a fork.


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Re: safety and photography?

[John Sessoms]

From: Joseph McAllister


On Jun 8, 2011, at 15:34 , John Sessoms wrote:


> And, I have additional fall-back positions just in case.


Yeah, you do? Carrying a gun!


Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com



Nope. Hopefully my gun toting days are over for good.

As I've said before, since *THEY* won't let me shoot who I think should 
be shot, guns are a waste of money.


I hope this country will not deteriorate to the point where I have to 
reconsider.


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Re: safety and photography?

[John Sessoms]

The thing I got from the article was another person who lives in 
Chicago's view of what's going on and that it is not just Chicago where 
there's a problem.


From: Paul Stenquist


It's a simplistic explanation. Chicago's gang problems are more a
result of under-enforcement and looking the other way than of "class
warfare." The problem existed long before the rash of foreclosures.
When I taught in Chicago high schools 30 years ago, it was already
fermenting. But no one wanted to get tough with the gangs, they were
coddled. "Disenfranchised youth" was a term kicked around way back
then. No one drew a line in the sand and said, you can't behave that
way. Now they're paying. We're all paying.

On Jun 9, 2011, at 2:14 PM, Ken Waller wrote:


As Paul Harvey was want to say "now here's the rest of the story"
on recent wilding events

Thanks for posting John.

Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - From: "John Sessoms"
 Subject: Re: safety and photography?



From: "Christine Aguila"


Chicago has been experiencing what is being called *flash
mob* attacks in the downtown area and at one of the
beaches that I've chosen for the beach project.  You can
read about it in the Chicago Sun Times article here  if
you want  http://tiny.cc/mnkxybut in a nutshell,
large groups of teenagers attack victims and steal iPods
and cell phones.  This is fairly new to Chicago, so the
mayor and police have been vocal in reassuring Chicagoans
that it's being dealt with.

I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you
employ when working in urban environments.

Cheers, Christine


Ran across this article with another Chicago perspective on
what's going on. According to the author there's a lot more
than made the news.

Additionally, read down far enough into the article, and
you'll find it's not just a Chicago problem.

<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/janet-tavakoli/chicago-gang-violence-_b_873200.html>







We'll see if adding the angle brackets keeps the URL intact
through the line wrap ... if not here's a tinyURL:

http://tinyurl.com/4x9qsrw




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Re: safety and photography?

[steve harley]

On 2011-06-09 22:57 , Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

He came at
me like a windmill and struck my head with his wrist. He didn't count
on my thick skull and broke his wrist on it.


i was often harassed by bullies, but usually mouthed off enough that 
things achieved a sort of balance; the only time i was goaded to the 
point of violence was in 8th grade; first swing i nailed the kid in the 
temple with my fist and that ended the fight -- he never bothered me 
again; years later i realized why my hand had been so sore -- it healed 
fine, but with a pronounced bend where i had broken my index metacarpal



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Re: safety and photography?

[Charles Robinson]

On Jun 9, 2011, at 23:57, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
> 
> A bully tried to take me on when I was a freshman in High School. I
> figured I was going to get beaten to a pulp as I was no fighter, but I
> wouldn't let him just victimize me. So we went out to the train
> station to duke it out. I took off my jacket and glasses. He came at
> me like a windmill and struck my head with his wrist. He didn't count
> on my thick skull and broke his wrist on it.
> 
> I remember pulling on my jacket, suggesting he have it looked at over
> in the campus infirmary, and didn't miss my train home. Didn't even
> have a bruise. He was in a cast from elbow to hand for six weeks.
> 
> No one ever tried to bully me in High School again. I was now one of
> the badasses. ]'-)

Sweet.  If this was on Facebook I'd click the "like" button.

 -Charles

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Re: safety and photography?

[Daniel J. Matyola]

"Bad head" has an entirely different connotation!

Dan

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 4:37 AM, Boris Liberman  wrote:
> On 6/10/2011 07:57, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>>
>> No one ever tried to bully me in High School again. I was now one of
>> the badasses. ]'-)
>
> I'd call you a badhead in a manner of speaking, not a badass... Or better
> yet - toughskull. There has to be a smiley put in here, but I am not sure I
> know enough of ASCII-speak to produce one. And Bob does not allow me to use
> them anyway. So, suffices it to say - a friendly wink/smile smiley is
> attached.
>
> Boris
>
>
>
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Re: safety and photography?

[Boris Liberman]

On 6/10/2011 07:57, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

No one ever tried to bully me in High School again. I was now one of
the badasses. ]'-)


I'd call you a badhead in a manner of speaking, not a badass... Or 
better yet - toughskull. There has to be a smiley put in here, but I am 
not sure I know enough of ASCII-speak to produce one. And Bob does not 
allow me to use them anyway. So, suffices it to say - a friendly 
wink/smile smiley is attached.


Boris



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Re: safety and photography?

[David Mann]

On Jun 10, 2011, at 6:50 AM, Bob W wrote:

> Having said that, I wouldn't carry a gun or knife either, unless I really
> knew how to use them and was prepared to do so. It makes far more sense to
> learn to defend yourself with whatever is to hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w

Dave


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Re: safety and photography?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

> On 6/9/2011 21:50, Bob W wrote:
>>
>> I don't know if you've ever had to deal with bullies, but if you went to a
>> boarding school, as I did, you'd observe quite quickly that the population
>> was divided into bullies, victims and people who stood up for themselves.
>> As
>> long as there were people willing to be victims, there were bullies. But
>> the
>> bullies only ever tried it once on those of us who stood up for ourselves;
>> even if we took a beating they found it wasn't worth their own pain to try
>> again.

A bully tried to take me on when I was a freshman in High School. I
figured I was going to get beaten to a pulp as I was no fighter, but I
wouldn't let him just victimize me. So we went out to the train
station to duke it out. I took off my jacket and glasses. He came at
me like a windmill and struck my head with his wrist. He didn't count
on my thick skull and broke his wrist on it.

I remember pulling on my jacket, suggesting he have it looked at over
in the campus infirmary, and didn't miss my train home. Didn't even
have a bruise. He was in a cast from elbow to hand for six weeks.

No one ever tried to bully me in High School again. I was now one of
the badasses. ]'-)
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: safety and photography?

[Boris Liberman]

On 6/9/2011 21:50, Bob W wrote:

I don't know if you've ever had to deal with bullies, but if you went to a
boarding school, as I did, you'd observe quite quickly that the population
was divided into bullies, victims and people who stood up for themselves. As
long as there were people willing to be victims, there were bullies. But the
bullies only ever tried it once on those of us who stood up for ourselves;
even if we took a beating they found it wasn't worth their own pain to try
again.


Indeed. The more interesting thing is that it seems (emphasis on 
'seems') to me that the same thing applies just about everywhere, not 
just a boarding school.


Boris

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Re: safety and photography?

[Joseph McAllister]

On Jun 8, 2011, at 15:34 , John Sessoms wrote:

> And, I have additional fall-back positions just in case.


Yeah, you do… Carrying a gun!


Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com

“ It is still true, as was first said many years ago, that people are the only 
sophisticated computing devices that can be made at low cost by unskilled 
workers!”
— Martin G. Wolf, PhD


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Re: safety and photography?

[Joseph McAllister]

On Jun 8, 2011, at 10:54 , Cotty wrote:

> On 8/6/11, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> My philosophy for protection is to be as large as possible
> 
> Anyone approaching Mike would do well to consider the probable option of
> having his/her legs pulled out of his/her mouth from the inside, tied
> into one of those poodle-balloon shapes and tossed into a dumpster - and
> that's just for starters!
> 

What a bloody visceral image to ponder. Add a grinning clown for visual relief!


Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com

THE SENILITY PRAYER : 
Grant me the senility to forget the people
I never liked anyway, 
The good fortune to run into the ones I do, and 
The eyesight to tell the difference. 


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Re: safety and photography?

[Paul Stenquist]

It's a simplistic explanation. Chicago's gang problems are more a result of 
under-enforcement and looking the other way than of "class warfare." The 
problem existed long before the rash of foreclosures. When I taught in Chicago 
high schools 30 years ago, it was already fermenting. But no one wanted to get 
tough with the gangs, they were coddled. "Disenfranchised youth" was a term 
kicked around way back then. No one drew a line in the sand and said, you can't 
behave that way. Now they're paying. We're all paying.

On Jun 9, 2011, at 2:14 PM, Ken Waller wrote:

> As Paul Harvey was want to say "now here's the rest of the story" on recent 
> wilding events
> 
> Thanks for posting John.
> 
> Kenneth Waller
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller
> 
> - Original Message - From: "John Sessoms" 
> Subject: Re: safety and photography?
> 
> 
>> From: "Christine Aguila"
>> 
>>> Chicago has been experiencing what is being called *flash mob* attacks in
>>> the downtown area and at one of the beaches that I've chosen for the beach
>>> project.  You can read about it in the Chicago Sun Times article here  if
>>> you want  http://tiny.cc/mnkxybut in a nutshell, large groups of
>>> teenagers attack victims and steal iPods and cell phones.  This is fairly
>>> new to Chicago, so the mayor and police have been vocal in reassuring
>>> Chicagoans that it's being dealt with.
>>> 
>>> I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when working
>>> in urban environments.
>>> 
>>> Cheers, Christine
>> 
>> Ran across this article with another Chicago perspective on what's going on. 
>> According to the author there's a lot more than made the news.
>> 
>> Additionally, read down far enough into the article, and you'll find it's 
>> not just a Chicago problem.
>> 
>> <http://www.huffingtonpost.com/janet-tavakoli/chicago-gang-violence-_b_873200.html>
>> 
>> We'll see if adding the angle brackets keeps the URL intact through the line 
>> wrap ... if not here's a tinyURL:
>> 
>> http://tinyurl.com/4x9qsrw
> 
> 
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Re: safety and photography?

[Scott Loveless]

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Bob W  wrote:
>
> Having said that, I wouldn't carry a gun or knife either, unless I really
> knew how to use them and was prepared to do so. It makes far more sense to
> learn to defend yourself with whatever is to hand.

Like the guy with the stick.  He had a stack of assault rifles to fall back on.

:)

-- 
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http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/
    __o
  _'\<,_
 (*)/  (*)

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RE: safety and photography?

[Bob W]

> If you have a gun you have to be prepared to use it. You don't have a
> memory; your memory has you. I doubt even all my possessions combined
> are worth dealing with that. Whenever you kill someone, two people die
> IMO

the possessions may not be worth killing someone for, but your dignity and
right not to be pushed around may well be. 

I don't know if you've ever had to deal with bullies, but if you went to a
boarding school, as I did, you'd observe quite quickly that the population
was divided into bullies, victims and people who stood up for themselves. As
long as there were people willing to be victims, there were bullies. But the
bullies only ever tried it once on those of us who stood up for ourselves;
even if we took a beating they found it wasn't worth their own pain to try
again.

Having said that, I wouldn't carry a gun or knife either, unless I really
knew how to use them and was prepared to do so. It makes far more sense to
learn to defend yourself with whatever is to hand.

B


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Re: safety and photography?

[Doug Franklin]

On 2011-06-09 3:19, Bob W wrote:


I remember my dad making a bank deposit in the '50's and we talked
about his taking along a 38.


I was rather surprised on my first trip to Ethiopia going to the bank in
Axum to see that people had left their AK47s on the porch before going in.
They were guarded by an old man with a stick.


Photo or it didn't happen. :-)

That /is/ one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time, though.

--
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Re: safety and photography?

[Boris Liberman]

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Bob W  wrote:
> I was rather surprised on my first trip to Ethiopia going to the bank in
> Axum to see that people had left their AK47s on the porch before going in.
> They were guarded by an old man with a stick.
>
> B

Some of your life experiences may make a good book, Bob. And you know
- you do have a way with words...

-- 
Boris

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Re: safety and photography?

[Ecke PDML]

> 2011/6/9 Bob W :
>>
>> I was rather surprised on my first trip to Ethiopia going to the bank in
>> Axum to see that people had left their AK47s on the porch before going in.
>> They were guarded by an old man with a stick.

If you have a gun you have to be prepared to use it. You don't have a
memory; your memory has you. I doubt even all my possessions combined
are worth dealing with that. Whenever you kill someone, two people die
IMO

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Re: safety and photography?

[Ecke PDML]

2011/6/9 Bob W :
>
> I was rather surprised on my first trip to Ethiopia going to the bank in
> Axum to see that people had left their AK47s on the porch before going in.
> They were guarded by an old man with a stick.

Markworthy IMO

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RE: safety and photography?

[Bob W]

> 
> I remember my dad making a bank deposit in the '50's and we talked
> about his taking along a 38.

I was rather surprised on my first trip to Ethiopia going to the bank in
Axum to see that people had left their AK47s on the porch before going in.
They were guarded by an old man with a stick.

B




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Re: safety and photography?

[William Robb]

On 08/06/2011 11:31 AM, Boris Liberman wrote:


I hang out with Tom C. Never been bothered yet, so I figure it's a good
strategy.
Seriously though, don't you people get to carry handguns just for
situations like that?


I cannot help but notice to non-serious remarks from you, sir William.

Boris


I find if I don't take the world seriously I am more able to be amused 
by the absurdity in what goes on around me.

And really, I've never been bothered by anyone when hanging out with Tom C.

--

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Re: safety and photography?

[Anthony Farr]

This quote from Mashable caught my eye,
"... all organized by hundreds of high schoolers and middle schoolers
taking to MySpace, Twitter and other sites to organize the meetups."

What considerate villians, laying a trail of evidence to help
investigators find and prosecute them.  Don't the schools teach the
basic commonsense of covering your arse?

regards, Anthony

   "Of what use is lens and light
    to those who lack in mind and sight"
                                               (Anon)



On 9 June 2011 03:17, steve harley  wrote:
> On 2011-06-08 04:56 , Paul Stenquist wrote:
>>
>> They're generally entertainment here in the states as well. Apparently,
>> the Chicago press has appropriated the term for these teenage gangs.
>
> it seems Philadelphia has also been giving flash mobs a bad name
>
> 
>
> it's kind of like "hacking", another term with two loosely related meanings,
> one positive, one negative
>
> --

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Re: safety and photography?

[John Sessoms]

From: Stan Halpin



- Original Message -

I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you
employ when working in urban environments.



You need W. Robb and Cotty to escort you. Take along Sessoms as a
backup, he can carry the guns.

stan



Don't own a gun. If *THEY* won't let me shoot who I think ought to be 
shot, it's a waste of money.


I prefer something I can carry with me anywhere I go.


-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1511/3687 - Release Date: 06/07/11


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Re: safety and photography?

[Bob Sullivan]

I remember my dad making a bank deposit in the '50's and we talked
about his taking along a 38.
He was a small town boy from central Illinois and was concerned about
the mean streets of Chicago.
In those days, most men had carried guns in the service (WWII).
And it was legal to take your handgun anywhere so long as you didn't conceal it.
(Concealed carrying required a special permit or a badge from law enforcement.)
I noticed it was pretty unusual.

I regret how many guns are in the wrong hands today.
I wouldn't mess with any old white guys carrying.
I suspect a lot of them are 'trained killers' thanks to military service.
And good shots as well!

Regards,  Bob S.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 5:34 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> From: William Robb
>
>> On 07/06/2011 9:24 PM, Christine Aguila wrote:
>>>
>>> > I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when
>>> > working in urban environments.
>>
>> I hang out with Tom C. Never been bothered yet, so I figure it's a good
>> strategy.
>> Seriously though, don't you people get to carry handguns just for
>> situations like that?
>
> State laws differ. With 50 states, there's probably 500 different laws that
> govern when and where you can carry a gun.
>
> In North Carolina you can get concealed carry permits, but you still can't
> carry a gun into a bank, any place that serves alcohol or onto
> city/county/state property, particularly public parks.
>
> While the right of self defense is enshrined in US law, there are still too
> many places where if you shoot someone "in self defense" you're going to be
> in lot of trouble. Not for shooting them, but for having a gun in that
> place.
>
> I wouldn't rely on a gun for self-defense. I understand the argument "I'd
> rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6" ... there are just too many
> situations where you might not have it. Having a gun does you no good if you
> can't have it with you whenever you need it.
>
> You need a strategy that relies on something you can carry with you
> everywhere you go; something you don't even have to conceal.
>
> I have a Gitzo G1564 heavy aluminum monopod with a Bogen RC2 Compact Rapid
> Connect Adapter mounted. The release lever locks open in an extended
> position when the camera is removed.
>
> Carbon fiber doesn't have the necessary heft & authority if you need to use
> your monopod for alternative purposes. Aluminum won't splinter on impact
> either, so if you *do* have to use it that way, you'll  still be able to use
> it for steadying the camera later.
>
> I might replace the foot with a G1220.129B Stainless Steel Spike.
>
> And, I have additional fall-back positions just in case.
>
>
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1511/3687 - Release Date: 06/07/11
>
>
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RE: safety and photography?

[Bob W]

> From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
> John Sessoms

> You need a strategy that relies on something you can carry with you
> everywhere you go; something you don't even have to conceal.
> 

This is what I use:


[...]
> 
> And, I have additional fall-back positions just in case.
> 

I've got some spare crinolines if you want to borrow one.

B


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Re: safety and photography?

[John Sessoms]

From: William Robb


On 07/06/2011 9:24 PM, Christine Aguila wrote:

> I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when
> working in urban environments.


I hang out with Tom C. Never been bothered yet, so I figure it's a good
strategy.
Seriously though, don't you people get to carry handguns just for
situations like that?


State laws differ. With 50 states, there's probably 500 different laws 
that govern when and where you can carry a gun.


In North Carolina you can get concealed carry permits, but you still 
can't carry a gun into a bank, any place that serves alcohol or onto 
city/county/state property, particularly public parks.


While the right of self defense is enshrined in US law, there are still 
too many places where if you shoot someone "in self defense" you're 
going to be in lot of trouble. Not for shooting them, but for having a 
gun in that place.


I wouldn't rely on a gun for self-defense. I understand the argument 
"I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6" ... there are just too 
many situations where you might not have it. Having a gun does you no 
good if you can't have it with you whenever you need it.


You need a strategy that relies on something you can carry with you 
everywhere you go; something you don't even have to conceal.


I have a Gitzo G1564 heavy aluminum monopod with a Bogen RC2 Compact 
Rapid Connect Adapter mounted. The release lever locks open in an 
extended position when the camera is removed.


Carbon fiber doesn't have the necessary heft & authority if you need to 
use your monopod for alternative purposes. Aluminum won't splinter on 
impact either, so if you *do* have to use it that way, you'll  still be 
able to use it for steadying the camera later.


I might replace the foot with a G1220.129B Stainless Steel Spike.

And, I have additional fall-back positions just in case.


-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1511/3687 - Release Date: 06/07/11


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Re: safety and photography?

[Bob Sullivan]

Here's a good Chicago columnist's comments on the story.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Rick Womer  wrote:
> That Philly story is over a year old.  The city did a good job of dealing 
> with the problem, and I haven't heard or read about more.
>
> Rick
> (who lives and works =in= Philly)
>
> http://photo.net/photos/RickW
>
>
> --- On Wed, 6/8/11, steve harley  wrote:
>
>> it seems Philadelphia has also been giving flash mobs a bad
>> name
>>
>> 
>>
>> it's kind of like "hacking", another term with two loosely
>> related meanings, one positive, one negative
>>
>> -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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>> directly above and follow the directions.
>>
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Re: safety and photography?

[Rick Womer]

That Philly story is over a year old.  The city did a good job of dealing with 
the problem, and I haven't heard or read about more.

Rick
(who lives and works =in= Philly)

http://photo.net/photos/RickW


--- On Wed, 6/8/11, steve harley  wrote:

> it seems Philadelphia has also been giving flash mobs a bad
> name
> 
> 
> 
> it's kind of like "hacking", another term with two loosely
> related meanings, one positive, one negative
> 
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RE: safety and photography?

[Bob W]

> From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
> Godfrey DiGiorgi


> >
> >>My philosophy for protection is to be as large as possible
> >
> > Anyone approaching Mike would do well to consider the probable option
> of
> > having his/her legs pulled out of his/her mouth from the inside, tied
> > into one of those poodle-balloon shapes and tossed into a dumpster -
> and
> > that's just for starters!
> 
> So you're saying Mike is a balloon artist as well as a photographer,
> eh? ]'-)

he's just pulling your leg

B


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Re: safety and photography?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Cotty  wrote:
> On 8/6/11, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>My philosophy for protection is to be as large as possible
>
> Anyone approaching Mike would do well to consider the probable option of
> having his/her legs pulled out of his/her mouth from the inside, tied
> into one of those poodle-balloon shapes and tossed into a dumpster - and
> that's just for starters!

So you're saying Mike is a balloon artist as well as a photographer, eh? ]'-)
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: safety and photography?

[Cotty]

On 8/6/11, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed:

>My philosophy for protection is to be as large as possible

Anyone approaching Mike would do well to consider the probable option of
having his/her legs pulled out of his/her mouth from the inside, tied
into one of those poodle-balloon shapes and tossed into a dumpster - and
that's just for starters!

--


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



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Re: safety and photography?

[steve harley]

On 2011-06-07 21:24 , Christine Aguila wrote:

I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when
working in urban environments.


i generally keep my awareness high, put my camera in a small innocuous 
bag when not in use, and move quickly and confidently in rougher areas


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Re: safety and photography?

[Boris Liberman]

On 6/8/2011 08:35, William Robb wrote:

I hang out with Tom C. Never been bothered yet, so I figure it's a good
strategy.
Seriously though, don't you people get to carry handguns just for
situations like that?


I cannot help but notice to non-serious remarks from you, sir William.

Boris


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Re: safety and photography?

[steve harley]

On 2011-06-08 04:56 , Paul Stenquist wrote:

They're generally entertainment here in the states as well. Apparently, the 
Chicago press has appropriated the term for these teenage gangs.


it seems Philadelphia has also been giving flash mobs a bad name



it's kind of like "hacking", another term with two loosely related 
meanings, one positive, one negative


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Re: safety and photography?

[Stan Halpin]

> 
> - Original Message - 
>> I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when working 
>> in urban environments.
> 

You need W. Robb and Cotty to escort you. Take along Sessoms as a backup, he 
can carry the guns.

stan
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Re: safety and photography?

[Peter Zalabai]

I had the same problem back then when me and my friend had a project to take 
pictures of homeless people. Some of them were really friendly and some of 
them were just rude. But there was one guy who was rude and agressive and he 
decided to attacked me... Luckily I had my monopod with me, a Giottos 
MM9560. For me that's the best safety device. Also works as image 
stabilisation :)


.t

- Original Message - 
I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when 
working in urban environments.



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Re: safety and photography?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Wednesday, June 8, 2011, David J Brooks  wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Christine Aguila  
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when working
>> in urban environments.
>
> I shoot a Pentax, who's gonna bother me.:-)

All depends how nice a gun you use...

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: safety and photography?

[David J Brooks]

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Christine Aguila  wrote:

>
> I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when working
> in urban environments.

I shoot a Pentax, who's gonna bother me.:-)

Dave
>
> Cheers, Christine
>
>
>
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-- 
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
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York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: safety and photography?

[Paul Stenquist]

On Jun 8, 2011, at 3:27 AM, David Mann wrote:

> On Jun 8, 2011, at 5:33 PM, mike wilson wrote:
> 
>> The flash mobs in the UK have been (afaik) exclusively benign to 
>> individuals.  Mainly organised for either entertainment or political 
>> protest, they are more an opportunity for photography than a threat to 
>> photographers.
> 
> That's what I thought all flash mobs were about.  Didn't realise they were 
> becoming so sinister.
> 

They're generally entertainment here in the states as well. Apparently, the 
Chicago press has appropriated the term for these teenage gangs. While Chicago 
is one of my favorite places in the world, they also have one of the worst 
teenage gang crime problems, far worse than Detroit, for example.
Paul

> Dave
> 
> 
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Re: safety and photography?

[David Mann]

On Jun 8, 2011, at 5:33 PM, mike wilson wrote:

> The flash mobs in the UK have been (afaik) exclusively benign to individuals. 
>  Mainly organised for either entertainment or political protest, they are 
> more an opportunity for photography than a threat to photographers.

That's what I thought all flash mobs were about.  Didn't realise they were 
becoming so sinister.

Dave


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Re: safety and photography?

[mike wilson]

On 08/06/2011 07:35, William Robb wrote:

On 07/06/2011 9:24 PM, Christine Aguila wrote:


I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when
working in urban environments.


I hang out with Tom C. Never been bothered yet, so I figure it's a good
strategy.
Seriously though, don't you people get to carry handguns just for
situations like that?

Naughty William.  I'd tell you to go away and spank yourself but I know 
you'd enjoy it.


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Re: safety and photography?

[Paul Sorenson]

Soon...Concealed Carry is pending in the Legislature right now.

-p

On 6/8/2011 12:35 AM, William Robb wrote:

On 07/06/2011 9:24 PM, Christine Aguila wrote:


I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when
working in urban environments.


I hang out with Tom C. Never been bothered yet, so I figure it's a good
strategy.
Seriously though, don't you people get to carry handguns just for
situations like that?



--
Being old doesn't seem so old now that I'm old.

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Re: safety and photography?

[William Robb]

On 07/06/2011 9:24 PM, Christine Aguila wrote:


I'd be interested in knowing what safety strategies you employ when
working in urban environments.


I hang out with Tom C. Never been bothered yet, so I figure it's a good 
strategy.
Seriously though, don't you people get to carry handguns just for 
situations like that?


--

William Robb

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